The Measured Golf Podcast
With so many amazing things happening in the Measured Golf Community, we have decided to start a podcast to discuss all of the amazing things that we are seeing have a positive impact on our athletes. Whether it be Ground Reaction Forces, Golf Biomechanics, or strategies for making the most out of your limited practice time, we hope that this podcast becomes a resource for you to finally become the player you know you can be!
Video of the podcast can be found by visiting our Measured Golf YouTube page.
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To learn more, or to visit the Measured Golf facility in person, please, find us on the web at measuredgolf.com.
The Measured Golf Podcast
Nurturing Young Golfers: The Joy and Science of Development
What happens when you mix child psychology, creative play, and golf instruction? You get a revolutionary approach to junior golf that's changing how young players connect with the game.
Meet Lisi Mueller, an assistant golf professional who left a high-paying corporate job to pursue her passion for teaching golf to children and women. Drawing from her educational background in child psychology and development, Lisey brings a refreshingly innovative toolkit to the driving range—complete with stuffed animals, ribbons, and hopscotch patterns that translate complex golf movements into age-appropriate learning experiences.
Throughout our conversation, Lisi shares the beautiful simplicity of her teaching philosophy: meet children where they are, not where traditional golf instruction expects them to be. Her monkey named Rory teaches body rotation, her octopus Shelly demonstrates grip pressure, and her creative hopscotch patterns help four-year-olds understand weight transfer without ever using those technical terms. The results? Children who hit "a million balls" while having fun, develop critical self-awareness, and keep coming back to the course with excitement rather than obligation.
Beyond teaching methods, we explore deeper questions about golf's accessibility, particularly for young girls who rarely see themselves represented in the game. Lisi's courage to be visible in predominantly male spaces creates pathways for future generations of female golfers. Her reminder that "no one owns golf" and "golf can look like whatever you want it to look like" offers a powerful counterpoint to an industry increasingly focused on professional competition over recreational enjoyment.
Whether you're a parent hoping to introduce your child to golf, a coach looking for fresh teaching approaches, or simply someone who believes golf should be more inclusive and joy-centered, Lisi's insights will inspire you to see the game through new eyes. Connect with her on social media @lisilea_tothetee to learn more about her innovative teaching methods.
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Measured Golf Podcast where we talk all things golf and try to bring in some really interesting people to help us understand what's going on with golf, because, as we all know, it's a complicated game and we all have our different reasons why we play it and what we want to get out of it.
Speaker 1:And it's kind of in that spirit of how we play it and what we want to get out of it and it's kind of in that spirit of how we play it and how we get better at it that we arrived at our next guest and I was fortunate enough to meet her over in the Washington DC area while doing an education and she just stood out like a sore thumb from a pretty good group of instructors and her passion and her commitment to young people is really something to see and I've got to know her a little bit and been fortunate enough to share some information with her and I always learn so much from her every time I talk to her because she's just so good at understanding early childhood development and how the youngsters learn and I thought it would be really good, instead of talking about tour players for an entire episode again, maybe if we talked a little bit more about our youngsters and getting them onto the golf course and supporting them in a meaningful way and that doesn't mean just buying them lessons and buying them clubs and putting them into golf tournaments but how do we make golf meaningful? So, without further ado, I'd like to introduce Lisey Mueller, and I'm excited to have her on. So say hello, lisey. How are you today?
Speaker 2:Hello, I'm good. I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so tell us a little bit about your day-to-day activities and kind of what you do within the golf industry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm an assistant pro at a private country club. I teach a lot of juniors and women and also, obviously, the grunt work of being an assistant pro takes up a lot of my time as well. But my joy is teaching kids, learning about just how they learn and doing research and applying my crazy ideas to get them to get excited and come to the course.
Speaker 1:So what are some of these crazy ideas? Because you've shared a couple with me, but maybe my definition of crazy and your definition of crazy doesn't match the audience. So tell us a little bit more about some of these crazy ideas that you've put into play.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I study education for my bachelor's at Dickinson and so I know a lot about child psychology and how those things work. Inside a classroom. It's the same thing when you are on the golf course it's still a classroom and there's things in place in so many studies that you can use in the same way. So a lot of the things I do with my little kids that are like 10 and below a lot of visual things. So I have stuffed animals that I use.
Speaker 2:I have an octopus named Shelly who is sticky feet, who watches sticky feet. I have a turtle named Franklin that is making sure that they're aware of how fast they're swinging and if they're fat, if they're too fast, Franklin definitely steps in, is like, well, that was way too fast, way too fast. And then I have a monkey who's probably my favorite out of all of them with my kids. His name's Rory and I got it from Erica Larkin. It's one of those Velcro hand monkeys that teaches how to use your body visually instead of your arms moving the club, and that really works like magic.
Speaker 1:That's so awesome. You got some stuffed animals. I think I remember you telling me about some ribbons too, if I remember correctly, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So if you know what? Like a baton ribbon, it's like a stick and then it's a really long ribbon. So I cut it down and basically let them use the ribbon and make the noise, of using their body to make the noise and they'll learn, because when they just use their arm it's not as loud and not as fun and when they use their body to do it it's way louder. And you got to be a little bit careful with, like the older kids. They go a little crazy with it, but just them having that feeling that they can own is everything, because they're trying to make their understanding of the golf swing at a really young age. That is incredibly complicated once they get older.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's.
Speaker 1:I mean it's funny because we've talked in the past and I think when we first met you were like I've got some ideas, but maybe they're kind of crazy, and you were a little.
Speaker 1:And you know, I I love the fact that you know. You know whether it's it's internal or external. You know you feel maybe slightly out of place with what you're doing sometimes but you still, um, you still pursue it and you still do it, even though maybe you feel a little uncomfortable or maybe you know you're slightly awkward. But I think that that's probably what connects you so well to the youngsters, right, like your ability to not have that like self-awareness yet maybe just like be a kid with them. I just think that's so beautiful because I think as we, as we specialize and as we become you know quote unquote, famous coaches or whatever um, you know it's like we kind of lose a little bit of that, we forget cause we get away from that. And I just love the fact that you're so happy to be in the trenches of where everybody else typically is trying to run away from as fast as possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, definitely no one really wants to teach the juniors, especially the ones that are super hyper. But I think I'm definitely a kid at heart, for sure. But I struggled in school when I was that age Like I had dyslexia, I had an auditory processing disorder, like school was hard and every kid learns differently. School is hard and every kid learns differently and there's just not one way to teach. And I think being able to be creative in a world that I absolutely adore, I want to give my gift of golf to these kids and teach them in any type of way that will make them excited to come to the golf course.
Speaker 1:Dude, that's awesome, like that's so what it's about. And uh, you know I haven't told you this but I was just over in the UK and uh, me and Aram uh Kashigian, our full-time trainer here at measured golf, we were out playing the uh second course at current USD called Burnside and it's considered to be the junior course to the championship course, but it's still like a golf course ranked in the top 10 in Scotland, so it's still like a great golf course. But we saw like several women out on the golf course, like small groups of them, and you could tell like there was like a leader within the group that was kind of shepherding the other women and kind of helping them like kind of figure out how to play and whatnot, like almost, almost in like a four caddy kind of position. And then we saw a lot of children out there who were playing golf and like they had their parents, either their dad or their mom, with them, but the parents weren't playing golf, they were just like with the kids and helping them kind of get around the golf course with the kids and helping them kind of get around the golf course and like it was this really simplistic kind of like hey, we might not know how to swing the golf club and we might not know how to tell you how to do this better or whatever, but we can tell you how to like keep up and tell you how to rake a bunker, and tell you how to fix a ball mark and to repair your divot and like do these things.
Speaker 1:And it's like I think so many of us wanted like jump into, like the super cool stuff and what's going on on tour. But, like, for most people listening to this, this conversation that we're having is way more applicable to their life, their life, because, even though a lot of what we're talking about is stuff we do for early childhood development and for the youngsters, a lot of these same things are what we need to do with new golfers, because, in a way, they're like early adults within golf and they don't really know what to do either. And I think a lot of what you do I hate to call it kind of childish, because it isn't because I think most of what you do would work with adults too if we could get them to like let their ego down enough to actually try something different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. I mean I think the etiquette thing is big. Like when I started playing golf, like love my dad he's the one that got me into golf he would not let me play until I knew etiquette. He would not let me play until I knew etiquette. So I would sit there with all his military guys foursome 7.30 in the morning watching everything until I knew the rules. Then he finally would let me play. But not all kids are like that. Like I was a golf nerd so it's like I could handle that. But there's different ways to like teach a kid to love the game and like. I think etiquette and keeping up is like key when you're learning.
Speaker 1:It's, it's massively key and it's it's just frustrating because I think you know, I think a lot of times junior golf is really an afterthought, and especially in this country.
Speaker 1:Um, I think you know, know, we worry about the first two hours of the tee sheet during the day and that's about it for the most part.
Speaker 1:When it comes to, like, club level golf, and it's scary because you know the generation now, the youngsters.
Speaker 1:You know everything is graded, everything is critiqued, everything is put on social media, everything is documented and, like the youngsters feel this immense pressure to perform at a high level, no matter what they're doing, like everything has to be Instagram perfect at times.
Speaker 1:So I think the thing that's worrisome is that, with all this pressure to succeed, as you know, as I know, as anybody listening to this knows, golf is not easy in the beginning by any stretch of the imagination. And if we're not putting the resources around these new golfers and this next generation and helping them develop and learn how to get around a golf course and how not to be yelled at by the starter all the time because they're way behind or whatever's going on, if we don't start developing this next generation, like what's going to happen to golf in this country Because I think we're already seeing there's a massive access problem. But you know, if we have an access problem and then we're not developing the people that do get access, we're just not going to have the next generation of golfers ready to go when this one's, you know, going out and retiring from the game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and golf can break your heart. Imagine being heartbroken about golf and you're eight years old. That hurts me. So, like we have to prepare them. It's a mental battle, you know. You have to make that mental toughness in. The earlier that you do that, the better golfer they will be. Like.
Speaker 2:So, for me, I this is my advice to like any dad, mom that are teaching their kids when you're watching your kid go and they hit a good shot, resist being like wow, that was great. You have to resist that and if you do say that, you have to say why. Or like, wow, you use all your muscles on that one. You really turned your shoulders on that one because they're gonna look to you being like was that good, was that good? But you, they have to know it's good and you give them the tools to do that. Like with my three year old, she always looks at me for approval and I mean I've been trying to get her out of that and I, every time I like I've had to stop being like wow, that was good, cause she does hit amazing shots. I'm just like, wow, you use all your muscles and I'll touch her shoulders. I'm like you used all your shoulders. That time, you know, and just like you really looked at the ball, that ball went so high.
Speaker 1:But that's just such great reinforcement, right, like that's so well done from a feedback perspective. Because, you know, the thing that I I the thing that's tough for coaches, right, and the thing that I get frustrated with with other coaches is, you know, they'll kind of run out of tricks and they are very adamant about what needs to change for this person or this youngster or whoever, but they're like hey, it feels like this, come on, you gotta, you gotta get that. And it's like well, you may understand how that feels because you've done that before, but this person doesn't know how that feels. So, you know, you may ask a youngster to do something and they don't really have a feel for that at all. But the fact that you're stepping in, if it's a, if it's a good, you know result, and touching the thing you're trying to change and then being like, hey, great job, like that helps them build some of that awareness and it helps create some of those feelings. So I think that's awesome, man.
Speaker 1:Like really good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm definitely a child centered coach, but that's what I kind of go through. I kind of let them lead and like creativity. So another thing me and sophia, like little as she's four now we'll use animals because she loves animals. So we'll go like swing like a cheetah, swing like a turtle turtle you have to be careful with, because they're just gonna like drag the club and you have to explain like turtles are really strong, they have a huge shell and then she's like you're right, but they're just very intentional in their movements. We'll go through so many animals, but she hits a million balls. That's like the key and she's having fun doing it and also learning about rhythm and tempo without me saying it to her, because she can can't understand that yet.
Speaker 1:Right, she has no definition for those words.
Speaker 2:No, it's a feeling.
Speaker 1:Right, and that's. I mean that's. You know, we kinda we wax poetically about the golf swing itself a lot, but at the end of the day it's, you know, from the time it starts to the time you hit the ball. You've got a second and there's a lot of things you're going to feel in that second, but there's not very many conscious thoughts you're going to be able to have within that second. Yes.
Speaker 1:And you know, for a youngster who has to kind of translate every word because they're not accustomed to, like, talking about physics or mechanics or whatever you know, there's just not enough time in the world for their brain to make that swing.
Speaker 1:So, by kind of focusing on the fields and getting them to understand like, hey, what do we want to happen here? Like what would good look like? You know, I think with with the youngsters, the hardest thing is is you kind of have to hold the ball almost behind you. Uh, it's kind of like my golden retriever If she sees the ball in my hand she knows I'm throwing it, so I have to hide it from her. But like, it's kind of like you have to hide the ball a little bit and go hey, what are we going to do on this next shot? Which animal are we going to swing? Like you kind of. Like you said, let them lead. But then, like, if they see that happen now it's like okay, like now they can own. That it was good because they understood what they were trying to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what's really interesting is one time out she was like can I do it like a snake? And then she's like I'm going to top the ball, so it goes on the ground like a snake and I'm like I never taught you what even that is. But she's learning her the club face of where it is. Like what that's crazy.
Speaker 1:Isn't that cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:Like the thing that. The thing that I think is interesting, right, like is we look at this like conversation and we look at like coaching juniors and we're like, oh, that's cute, that's a fun team. You know what I mean. But in reality, you know, when you send me videos and I see the people on your Instagram, I see people really like enjoying golf, like you just said that right. Like you've got a three or four year old that's hitting a million golf balls and is excited about it and it's probably talking about it at home. And then it's probably like when can we go to the golf course? When can I see Lisi again? And before we started this conversation, the recorded part, lisi was showing me, you know, all these amazing notes and all these amazing drawings that our clients have made and it's like, look, if that's happening, that's happening away from the golf course. So you're having like this meaningful connection to these young people through golf, and I've.
Speaker 1:I think you know, at the end of the day, man, golf should be fun, promoting fun, and like I really appreciate that because I feel like I'm way too damn stuffy all the time and constantly trying to take all the fun away from it.
Speaker 1:But I think that you know, going back to the idea that this is cute or less than it's like dude, if you're a person that plays golf recreationally and, you know, don't have aspirations of being a tour player and all that, which is 85% playing golf, by the way, like, if you're that like maybe you know, introduce a couple animals to your practice routine and see if it doesn't like at least you're going to have some fun again.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. I don't understand, like, why, you know we look at the people who are mega successful teaching youngsters and we don't try to extrapolate more of that into teaching adults, because even though they're an adult by you know years, on this planet's perspective, like within golf, a lot of these adults are infants. You know, they're just picking up the game, they're new, they're COVID golfers, they've been around for a couple of years but just kind of been whacking golf balls like we all do in the beginning. But how do we, how do we take some of what you're sharing and implement that and getting people more open to exploring their feelings so that they can get better at golf?
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe done in the private of your own home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I honestly, though, I think that that's where, like AI and a lot of the virtual coaching and stuff like that, I think that's where it has a real strength. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no for sure. Also, hopping is a good thing too.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you kind of inspired that because it's basically like pressure transfer.
Speaker 2:So little kids are very top heavy, like their head is very big, so balance is hard. It's very impressive for a kid to learn how to walk, if you really think about it. So like balance is something you have to teach a kid. So I'll create hopscotch for Sophia and basically what I'm teaching her is to use her legs to create that turn and then I'll make her do a completely 360 and try to balance like from jumping, like here and then 360, jump to where your feet were before and that's basically what a golf swing is. And after we did that for a couple of times she was hitting the ball like with her body, without even like making the connection. It was just teaching her body how to move. And now her mom will always send me videos. She does the hopscotch anywhere. She goes in the beginning and then launches it and everyone's like looking at her like whoa that's so awesome too.
Speaker 1:But I mean it's just like you're on her level, like you're coaching her where she's at with you know things she's able to do. Uh, like, the hopscotch thing is brilliant, you know. I mean I hear a lot. You know there's like this and I I, to be honest, I kind of used to subscribe to this a little bit but you know, there's like kind of this junior golf swing and then there's like kind of like a more grown-up, adult golf swing, right like right the juniors allegedly don't have as much core strength when they're younger and they tend to kind of pin the golf club behind them and then just kind of try to rip it through there as hard as they can to make speed.
Speaker 1:and then we know that you know, generally as you grow up and get older and develop some core strength and like you, you know that kind of soft draw turns into a hard hook and it's like then we got to learn how to get the golf club more connected again.
Speaker 1:So, I I used to kind of think that that was kind of true-ish, but really I think what you're saying and kind of what I've been thinking for a little bit here lately, is it's not so much that the youngsters don't have these muscles, they do have these. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's not like you grow extra muscles as you get older, like it doesn't work that way, um, but it's. They don't have awareness of those muscles and maybe they haven't done a specific activity that forces them to, you know, kind of connect the brain to that muscle via the nervous system. Right, by doing things that are active and fun and, like age appropriate, like hopscotch, and getting her to twist and move in those certain ways, you're literally creating that connection between the brain and the muscle. So now, when she gets over that golf ball and starts moving, it's like a kind of oh wait, there's that connection.
Speaker 2:They're engaged, like I feel them now. Yeah, I mean that's.
Speaker 1:That's just so. It's like I said it's. It's a very it seems like childish way to get something very specific done. But it's actually just understanding who you're trying to explain this to and who you're actually trying to get to do it, just understanding who you're trying to explain this to and who you're actually trying to get to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I try to always connect what someone would do in at school, you know, like their classroom. That's what I. So I try as much as I can. So I think of like recess pop scotch she knows that she can relate to that, or she does ballet. So I'm like sometimes like, can you stand on?
Speaker 1:one.
Speaker 2:That's why she's so good because she does ballet yeah, now, yeah, now I know what the secret is.
Speaker 1:It's not Lisey, it's that she does ballet. That's what it is I've. Yet If you find young women who do ballet and retire early before they just completely destroy their legs. If you find one of those, they make great golfers. Yeah. For sure yeah.
Speaker 1:That is, they make great golfers. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome though. Yeah, so she does ballet, she does all these things Right, but you're still able to take those completely non-golf movements and apply them to golf Right, and that's where you know. I said this at the education that you attended in DC, but you really got to take the time to talk to your clients, whether they're a junior or an adult, and you have to understand where they're coming from. You have to understand, like what have they done? What are they familiar with? What have they already put 10,000 hours in with Right? And once you kind of understand like, oh, she does ballet and she likes to do hopscotch, it's like, okay, how can I use these things to kind of get her to understand that we can use these same things within golf?
Speaker 2:right, right, like it's not a whole, separate animal.
Speaker 1:No pun intended yeah, well, you can make another animal. You're very good at that, you're very creative. That's awesome. So I'm curious too, because there's a part to your story that I think is really, really cool. And you kind of had a corporate gig going and you were like, hey, I don't really love this corporate gig. And then you were really passionate about getting into coaching and you took a sizable pay cut and got into coaching yeah I'm like I can't tell you, man, I just think that is so cool.
Speaker 1:Um, I did basically the same thing when I got into, you know, full-time coaching and it's not easy to do. It probably took me two to three years to make that decision. You know like I decided I was going to do it. Probably took me two to three years to make that decision. You know, like I decided I was going to do it. Then it probably took three years to do it. Um, but I just I think that's really cool, but I I think that that's something that is part of your journey. That's also something that you enjoy sharing with people.
Speaker 1:Right Is like yeah, you're so passionate about this that you were willing to do that. And then then, like you just show up to work every day and you're like, hey, isn't this the greatest day ever? We're like the greatest place ever. Isn't this great? Like everything is great, great, great and I just love that about you. I think that's so cool. But I think finding the confidence to do that like what was the final straw to where you were finally, like you know what man like I gotta, I gotta get into coaching, like now.
Speaker 2:So I coached field hockey and lacrosse from the moment I graduated in 2018. I was the head coach of a field hockey team varsity field hockey team in Preston and I loved it. So I worked full time nine to five and then every day I was at the school till like 10, even on Saturdays. Like it was a rough, it was a lot, lot, but I it was like the only saving grace for me. Like I loved going there. I loved those girls so much and we were really successful. Like we had an undefeated season. We went to the state tournament for the first time in like uh, since the 1980s.
Speaker 2:So I was like wait, maybe I'm actually good at this and like I love it so much and I hate my desk job. Like recruiting, I was in recruiting and it's it's a grind. Like I loved it. I was good at this, and like I love it so much and I hate my desk job. Like recruiting, I was in recruiting and it's it's a grind. Like I loved it. I was good at it, but it was like eating away at me and I was like hating it way more than the normal person. Like everyone hates their job, but like it was just like not good yeah um it makes you feel better.
Speaker 2:I weighed 215 pounds when I hated my job oh man um so you hated it yeah, I hated it and I started doing research about the PGA and I thought that you had to go to school for it and, like, get a degree in it, and I didn't. And so I talked to a recruiter and they like called me back in like two seconds. They're like you want to be an assistant problem? Like yeah, is it possible? I'm like, um, yeah, there's like no women that want to do this. Like you can go wherever. Like I could place you in 500 places. I'm like whoa, whoa, okay, all right, maybe this is real, maybe I can do it. Um, so I was so scared to go to my interview. I did not know what I was walking myself into, but I kind of explained my story and my passion. I played college golf. I'm a successful coach in a different sport, but I can relate to people well, and so I kind of just made the decision. I also had an offer for another recruiting gig at the same time.
Speaker 2:That was triple the salary not even joking, I'm not joking and I chose the assistant pro route at a girl poverty, seriously, everyone you're psychotic, but I'm like I gotta try, I gotta try it and I'm so glad I did Like yes.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you did, I'm thrilled you did Like I mean, you're, you're just you, like I said, you literally stand out from a crowd and your passion for this is, you know, really just off the charts man. And you know whether, whether we get anything accomplished in this podcast or not, I could really care less. But I want, I want people to like see what amazing people there are in the golf space and, like you know, I think people listen to these podcasts to get answers to questions and if, if you have questions about hey, what should I be doing? You know, with my three year old. I want him to grow up and love golf so we can play golf together. Well, I want them to know there's people like Lisi in the world who are like, really good with the kids and like you can reach out to these people because there are so many people in our industry who are just in it for all the right reasons and are very passionate and really care and love it.
Speaker 1:And then you know, unfortunately, modern times, you know our game, our industry. You know people don't like hearing about the money that they're playing for and all of this stuff and it's like that's not what golf is man, Like I don't know what's happened to our industry, but it seems like everything revolves around the professional game and it's like it's such a small piece of the game it's really, by all intents and purposes, it shouldn't really even matter. Like, what those guys and girls do is is so much different than what we do. It's not even a comparable, really, other than the fact we're both technically playing golf. I promise you we're not playing the same game. Like how could we get back to where, like, golf is fun and people enjoy it and people laugh, and you know, that's the thing I really appreciated about golf over, especially in Scotland.
Speaker 1:It's very the golf course is very kind of the center of the community right, everybody within that community, whether they play golf or not and most of them do play golf, but whether they're, like, really golfers or not doesn't change the fact that the golf course is still like something special.
Speaker 1:It's part of the community and it creates like a place for people to come together and maybe talk about things and maybe have conversation without it turning into a fistfight. So I think we just need more of that and I think that, for whatever reason, at least in the US and the way golf is here, we just we've really lost sight of like this. Hey, we're trying to be good stewards of the game and trying to make sure that, you know, there's a generation after us that's ready to go and understands how to take care of this game and how to like make sure that the next generation loves it, because, like I love YouTube, we're obviously part of the problem. We're contributing to it as we speak, but there's a lot that's getting lost in translation when it comes to how we pass golf on to the next generation, when it comes to how we pass golf on to the next generation and I'm not saying we can't do it digitally, but we need to find a better way to share more stories like yours.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think I say this to myself all the time but no one owns golf. Like no one. Golf can look like whatever you want it to look like. Like, there's these two ladies. They're like 92 years old, they play every Tuesday, every Friday, and they play so fast. They complain about the taste play. It's almost like a repeat reel, but they love it.
Speaker 1:That's what they live for man.
Speaker 2:I love it. You know the lifelong game.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure, and I mean it's just. You know, I think so many people just worry about you know. You know this is the thing I hate. This is the thing I really don't like the most about junior golf right now is so many people, you know, like we talked about a little bit earlier, so many people are like, hey, we got little Timmy some lessons. Little Timmy's ready to go. Okay, we're putting little Timmy in a tournament, Right, and like the parents don't know, like what's going to happen in that tournament, Just like little Timmy doesn't know what's right in that golf tournament. The difference is the parents somewhat can like keep it together, and the difference is a little Timmy has no idea how to emotionally regulate Right, Right and like the.
Speaker 1:The problem with that is is that we're really doing a lot of damage to these young people and pushing them into competition when they're not ready. And they're not ready because we haven't even had the conversation with them about how we compete, what that means, how that doesn't affect our self-worth, Like we're not having those really important conversations with these young people before we put them out there and then it's okay. They've been out there for two years, they haven't broken 85. They haven't finished in the top 10. Oh, we're going to bump them up because they need better competition. Yeah, and it's like wait a minute, they they are not beating the kids that they're their age. What makes you think they're going to beat the? They're not. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's like we just keep moving the goalpost on these youngsters and it's like they're never good enough unless they qualify for the U S open at 12. Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's only good enough until next year, when somebody does it at 11. So it's it's like we're just constantly moving these goalposts. And I love what you're talking about, which is hey, man, we're not talking about draws and fades and distance control and, like I love the fact you're talking about like hey, how do we, how do we swing it with some kind of connection between the club and the body, how do we swing it with, like, some kind of rhythm and some kind of like, like and, most importantly, how do we make it fun? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like that's, that's what's important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like my goal of my lessons with my kids eventually is for them to go out on a range and they hit a shot and they know in their head, in their whatever, how they understand it was either what they wanted to happen or not and what went wrong or like what the contact felt like. So they don't have all these people coming up to them and telling them all this advice. Especially as a young girl, I see it all the time like it. When I was growing up, so many people were telling me what to do because I wasn't confident in myself, because I thought I couldn't know everything you know.
Speaker 1:It's funny, though, right Like, I think it's very. It's awesome that you shared that, because that's a very personal feeling.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's worse.
Speaker 1:Right, but I think I don't. I have no doubt in my mind that you would attract More unsolicited advice than I did, for sure. Yeah, with that said, I took it the same way you did because I didn't have the confidence and what I was supposed to be doing to be like. Thank you very much, I appreciate that, but like I kind of have a thing I'm working on, so thank you Right. So I don't think the second part to that is necessarily gender specific. Yeah. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I think that that's just poor coaching and I think that's poor development. Because if we as coaches or we as facilitators or stewards of the game are letting people walk around and not feel like they know what they should be trying to do, then why are we taking their money? You know, like I don't feel like we're doing very, a very good job as the coach or the facilitator If we're not kind of getting out in front of that and getting like those things put in place, like hey, I know you're only four years old, but when you go to the driving range, this is what good looks. Like. Yeah, like this is how we make it look good. We put our bag right here. We make sure we don't make a mess, we don't get in the way. Da, da, da, da, da. Like we hit our balls. We hit them confident. We hit them like whatever and like you. Just that's what I try to get people to focus on more of these human skills.
Speaker 1:How many times or what percentage of the time did you run your processes on the course today? Like that's a big question for me. I'll ask that I'll never ask what you shot. I don't care, like I obviously do. I live in a performance environment. But at the end of the day, like, how much of the time were you actually doing what you're training yourself to do? Right, because if we're not doing that, then the score doesn't matter. Like you can go out there and just play with your buddies and not give a crap and have a couple but you know, a couple of Budweiser's and whatever, and like slap around and shoot 68. But that doesn't mean you're going to go shoot 68 the next day in a tournament.
Speaker 2:Bro preach right.
Speaker 1:So it's like, how do we get good at like running these systems and running these processes? And I think that most of what you've talked about today, without talking about it which is your gift, right's kind of like teaching these youngsters like, hey, this is how we go about doing this yeah, we're doing it right now with stuffed animals and balloons and, you know, ribbons, but, like, this is how they're going to learn. And if I walked up to the same kids, I was like, hey, kids, you got to do this, this and this. And I said the exact same stuff as you're saying, but just vocalized it. I'm going to be upset all the time because the kids are never going to listen to me. And it's not because we're saying a different thing, it's because you're doing such a better job creating context that they understand that they're not understanding from me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, just think about it like you're a little kid and you have all these grown men slamming their driver on the range. You don't even look like them, like you're tiny. How could they? How can they see that they could do that? So a lot of times I'll have Sophia watch Alex, this girl Alexis, that's very good at the club because she doesn't like watching me swing. I't look like her, I'm so much taller than her. That's unattainable, but she loves watching this girl and she'll copy her um and her sisters and stuff go find a you like a lost golf club in the bag room.
Speaker 1:Cut it in half, put a grip on it and hit some shots off your knees true that's a good idea. See, I got you. Make sure it's like a wedge, though, because you need lots of loft when you get real short like that. Trust me. Okay, okay. Seven iron turns into about a three iron. That short, oh God.
Speaker 2:It's embarrassed myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, I want to make sure you look good in front of kids, I mean. So it's interesting, though, right Like so, in your world, in your view. So, as Sophia develops, what does that ideally kind of look like for you over the next, let's say, five to 10 years?
Speaker 1:Like my relationship with her, or like your relationship with her and how do you think that that's going to have to evolve and change? Right, because, like right now, like the animals and all that works great, but as she gets older, she's, it's just like you know anybody else they lose interest in barbie at a certain point yeah, like we don't even use the animals anymore.
Speaker 2:We talk about animals like so she'll. She can recognize my octopus sticky feet. She'll be like oh, no, sticky feet, you know, without my animal there with us. Sometimes she'll ask for rory to come, the monkey, but she doesn't ask for him. But she's like that was a rory swing. She can recognize it because she knows, has that visual cue in her head that's awesome.
Speaker 1:So how do you think that that kind of kind of progresses so like let's say that you know, four years into this you know she's really. Let me actually ask this a different way. Mm, hmm. Do you think that you would need to change your coaching style with her as she gets better?
Speaker 2:I think I mean that's a really hard question because I don't know, I don't have that experience yet, but I just know I'm going to grow with her because I'm a child centered coach. I'm going to be whatever she needs me to be and I'm going to give her the environment for her to figure it out and I'm going to be her guide. That's my answer.
Speaker 1:That's the best answer I think I've ever heard. I mean it's right up there. I mean you know who answers that question the same way right Is Randy Smith, who's Scotty Scheffler's coach. Really, yeah, he answers that question almost identically.
Speaker 1:You know it's it's it's really hard and it's it's it's difficult within the industry, especially like as you get involved with being on list and getting into like the politics and everything else. It's like kind of hard not to drink your own kool-aid from time to time. You know it's mind-boggling to me that people call me on a daily basis and ask my opinion on things. And there are people that you know five years ago I thought like I would be terrified to call them.
Speaker 1:So you know, I mean it's, it's interesting, but you know it's really not about us, it's not about the coach, it's not about you know it just in a lot of ways it is like, as you know, you know when you're at the club and you're the teaching pro and you walk into the room, like people recognize you and there's like there's a position of stature there because of just what you do, which is it feels great, right, like we all like that feeling, we all like being recognized, and I think the issue is and this is maybe the downside of some of that is you start drinking your own Kool-Aid and, like we all learned in Scarface, don't get high on your own supply.
Speaker 1:So you know, I think what's so cool about you is like if you were to talk to you, you'd be like, oh, she's out there giving a couple of lessons, doing it Like you're, you're very. You never make you the center of it. And I think what you just said was you know you've got somebody in front of you who believes in you and you believe in her, and you kind of have this growth mindset to where you're just going to keep getting better so that you can keep helping her.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Right and I think it's just beautiful because I that's why I still go to all the stuff I go to and do all the stuff I do is because you know I have a couple people that I work with, who you know. I don't get me wrong. I have people that are better players, that are professional players that I work with, but these are like people I've developed right, like these are my youngsters. So, um, when it comes to them, it's it's really what's driven me is to stay ahead of them.
Speaker 1:And you know, they're really well-trained, I like to think, and they know what they're doing and they're very competent and I'm super proud of them. So it's it's really I've had to push myself hard just to stay in front of them, um, but I love the fact that you said that, because I think if you're a coach man like that kind of has to be. The why right Is like I gotta, I gotta keep helping, I gotta stay ahead of this. Like it's tough man, it's really tough especially in this industry, it's changing quickly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, not a lot of pressure when it's a four-year-old, I can't even imagine being like Scottie Scheffler's coach.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like the stress of that yeah, I mean, I don't know what it's like to be Scottie Scheffler's coach, but I because I'm not, uh, but I do I do know what it's like to to work at that level and I have been on the team when a player's won, and I've been on the team when a player's been in the lead and not won, and I've. I've been through a few of these things and it is, it's it's so different, um, but but not in a way like it's still the highest high. You can feel like whatever that is is the moment, like, as you know, even when Sophia, just you know, hauls off and hits one, that just really like, looks great, like that high that you get from that, like that's the highest high, you know, which is why you're experiencing it so like it's just that probably in a little bigger amplitude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't like wow.
Speaker 1:Right. So it's there and you really want that high and it's like we're all just drug addicts out there, really Like when it comes from the performance stamp, like we all just want to hold the trophy at the end of the week and feel great about ourselves and think it's never going to stop, when reality it's going to stop Cause it's already over. Like we got to get back to work and we got to do it again and then you go. And I think you know to use scotty as the reference I think that's what really is making him so brilliant right now is his ability to just like, rinse and repeat yeah like the ability to be that well regulated, uh, internally and not, you know, reading the press and oh, is he the next tiger?
Speaker 1:and all these things and just being able to stay very true to what he does and his belief system. It's crazy good. Totally. Yeah, it's tough, man, like it's. It's really tough when, when you don't have coaches like you and you're a youngster helping you understand some of this stuff Like how much better of a player would you have been if you were your coach when you were young?
Speaker 2:Well, I don't want to toot my own horn, but like even just having a female pro at the country club I was at would be and I would be obsessed with them yeah, I'd be like I will. I want to be you, I want to spend all my time with you, I want to take lessons with you. Like I only had male pros at all the country clubs. All the the people that gave me a lesson were male. Um, so, just like I'm trying to be what I want I wanted as a kid of just feeling comfortable at a golf course.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's, what more could you want, right?
Speaker 1:Like I mean, that's why I own my own places, because I want to be me, I, I, I I've been known to not play in the sandbox well, with others from time to time and like I don't ever want somebody to be able to call my boss and be like, well, so-and-so is a jerk, so you should fire him. And then, like, I get fired. So, like, I want my own space so that I can be me and and I'm not saying I want to be mean to people, but I also, like, want to be me and I want to challenge people and I want to help people get better and I want to push cause that's what I believe my job is as a coach is to make people uncomfortable. So it's like, if that's what I need to do to do my job, that I need space that allows me to do that. So I think that it's amazing that you are creating that space in a otherwise no fault of the club, but unwelcoming environment. Right, because we don't see a lot of ourselves in the uh population. That's there, right?
Speaker 2:like even now, to this day, if I'm only girl on the range, I could get real like just tight, like I feel it. And if I feel it, imagine the girl that's. This is her first time coming out. But so I'm intentional about going to the range so people see me and more people will feel comfortable. Even if I'm like shaking it or it's not that great, you know I don't care, but I'm making an effort to do that to make other people feel comfortable.
Speaker 1:Well, now you're talking about a whole other skill and now you're just talking about being a great leader and like really making I'm the bottom of the totem pole, but you're not, because there's going to be a bunch of little girls in 20 years talking about how you were out there and they saw you out there and that's what gave them the confidence to go out there, and that's just really awesome, man, because you know, I don't I don't want to get into it too much, just because and this isn't right either but you know it's it's such a male dominated game, such a male dominated industry, and there are definitely, definitely, definitely inequities within the industry, without a single doubt, and I'm not even going to say that there isn't, because there is and it bothers me, it really does. I don't like to talk about it because it shouldn't be my platform to speak on it, because I would be what I'm complaining about myself, but there's a lot of women and there's a lot of people who are not white males who would?
Speaker 1:really appreciate a golf course and really appreciate being out there and I think would really find a lot of inspiration and really find a lot of what we all find as golfers through our own journeys out there. But they're just, they're not made to feel welcome and I understand that, you know they're not barred from entry and it's not like it used to be in a lot of ways. But just because it's not the same way it used to be, it doesn't mean it's as good as it could be. Yeah, I think that that's awesome and I think that's really the tip of the cap is owed to you, because what you're doing is, you know, really putting yourself out there on a limb with really the only benefit of trying to help, you know, promote a change at the club. I think that's awesome. Man, like that's. That's really cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think visually, just having visual things have, like where you see a woman doing that, will help and like just have exponential things happening because, like, if you don't see yourself in some place, it's impossible to know what that would look like right, that's really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. I mean it's, I'm happy you're where you're at, I'm happy that you're doing your thing. Um, I mean it's kind of funny because I've really racked my head a little bit because I was so taken aback. You were, I believe. I don't think I'm wrong. I think you were the only person who was a woman, who came to the education.
Speaker 2:Oh, I was. I knew that.
Speaker 1:Right, and I mean we had about 20, 25 people there. So I mean, like, and you were the only woman and I like I noticed that and I made it a point to talk to you. But, besides the fact that you're a woman, like I mean you stood out on your own merit, like you asked great questions, you were very involved, like you were, you wanted to learn, and I think that that's so important, that you're just so committed to getting better at what you do, that you're willing to not only go and learn things, but you're also willing to lead by example. I mean that's, that's really cool, man, like it's. It's. It's not easy to put yourself out there and I didn't understand, like, where your courage came from to show up to that, because I'm not sure, in the same situation, I would have to be perfectly honest.
Speaker 2:Oh, I was so scared Like I was like blasting rap music of like typing myself up I'm like I know I'm going to be the only girl there. This will be fine, we're just going to just sit and listen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we even talked to you into going to lunch and then you hung out for a while and we had a great day. But you know, I now understand like where that, where that dedication and where that courage comes from man, like it's just. It's such a cool story, lisi. I'm so I'm happy that we have people like you in the industry and I'm fortunate that I was lucky enough to have you on the podcast, because this has been absolutely great.
Speaker 2:This is like mind boggling. I never thought this would ever happen for me. Going to that on a whim yeah, we would. You would like we making a connection and like it's been the best, seriously well, good, I'm happy.
Speaker 1:I want you to get what you want to get out of the industry, because no matter what you take from it, you give way more than you'll ever take. So we're very uh, we're very fortunate to have you, and I mean it. If you are a parent listening to this, if you are a coach, if you want to get better at coaching, if you want to develop the youngsters, if you want to help your children, I highly, highly, highly recommend giving Lisi a follow on social media. You can reach out to her. She's more than happy to do some consulting and kind of give you some ideas. You know what you can do with your kids to make sure that they grow up to love the game and don't grow up and feel like spalding and they're just out there with schmales and everybody saying that's no good for anybody. So we're going to avoid the Spalding syndrome and we're going to get these kids loving golf. But to do that you got to reach out to Lisi. So, Lisi, how can people get ahold of you?
Speaker 2:So my Instagram is Lisi Lee to the T. Came up with that myself.
Speaker 1:It's really good, but you're gonna have to spell that probably really good, but you're gonna have to spell that probably.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, because no one can understand my name. So it's l-i-s-i-t-h-e, underscore t-e-e. Basically wait, no, I completely butchered that you just messed that up. Yeah, try that again well, I'm on Tik TOK too. I usually post more on Tik TOK.
Speaker 1:Okay, well see, I'm not on Tik TOK, so that's why I don't know that, cause I'm too old and I have too many gray hairs my beard. Well, I can't thank you enough. It's your one day off. They love you as much as we do and they keep you at the club as much as possible. So you had one day off and you were nice enough to spend an hour with us, which I certainly appreciate, and I know that we will more than certainly have you back on again in the future and we look forward to hearing about Sophia's development and how she's getting better and beating all the boys, about Sophia's development and how she's getting better and beating all the boys. And hopefully, by that point, there's about 10 to 15 young girls standing out there with you on the driving range, so you're not out there by yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's my dream. That'd be the best day of my life.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, I think it's going to happen, so hopefully it does, and until then, we'll all be watching. So thanks again for tuning in and listening to the Measured Golf Podcast. We appreciate you guys supporting this. If you haven't already, please download and subscribe to the podcast. That's the easiest way you can help. If you want to connect more with us, you can find us on Instagram by searching Measured Golf or you can find us on the web by going to measuredgolfcom. So thanks again for listening and until next time, keep grinding.
