Stop Chasing Perfect Swings And Start Playing Smarter Golf

If you’ve ever walked off the range thinking you “found it,” then watched it disappear on the first tee, you’re not alone. We’re kicking off peak golf season vibes with Masters week on the horizon, and we start with the hard stuff: the Tiger Woods DUI news, the body cam conversation, and why it’s possible to feel empathy while still demanding real accountability. Golf has heroes, but it also has humans, and we talk honestly about what happens when the world decides it’s “open season.”

Then we shift to a question a listener sent that might save you more strokes than any swing tip: is your time better spent trying to improve your golf swing, or maximizing the game you already have to score lower? We break down ball striking versus scoring, course management, and why “perfect” is a trap. We use real benchmarks like greens in regulation, realistic proximity to the hole, and what a good shot looks like for a 15 handicap. You’ll hear how to build margin into targets based on your miss pattern, why front pins punish bad club selection, and how the “60-foot window” can keep you patient and playable.

We also get practical on strategy: par-five decision making, laying up to a favorite wedge number, and why even Tiger avoided certain wedge distances. Finally, we talk practice priorities that actually travel to the course: short game practice, lag putting, shots from rough, and the human side of scoring like emotions, breathing, food, and alcohol. If this helped, subscribe, share it with a golf buddy who’s chasing a prettier swing, and leave us a review so more players find the show.

Website : measuredgolf.com 

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Transcript

Spring Golf And Masters Hype

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Measured Golf Podcast, where you, the listeners, sit down and join Chuck and I as we discuss all things golf. It is getting here. I think it is going to be 80 degrees where Chuck lives. It's going to be close to 65 degrees where I live. The Masters is next week. We are at the very precipice of the golf season. And I know for a lot of us out here, the Masters is kind of like Christmas and New Year's and all the good things in life kind of tied into one. So I know golf fever is at an all-time high, and we are very excited to be getting back to the golf season. And while I'm thinking about getting back to the golf season, Chuck is is well on his way. How many rounds do you have in this year already? Let's see. Do we have an official number on this?

SPEAKER_01 0:56

The the posted rounds in 2026.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

26, 27.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

The posted rounds in in the year 2026 are at 26.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Wow, that was a good guess. That's pretty good. That's wild. And that's that's just posted rounds. That that doesn't count all the E9s and other activities that you participate in. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that number is probably closer to 40 if we actually factored in all the golf that you've done.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

I agree. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

I mean, if if there's one thing I can say about Chuck is when he is not podcasting, he is golfing.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

I try and tell people I have no other hobbies. I'd love another hobby. Um, I don't have one. I work out, I play golf, I cook. Uh you work sometimes. I work.

Tiger, Addiction, And Accountability

SPEAKER_00 1:57

There is work. That's right. I do need to sprinkle in my my day job. There is some day job in there, but yeah, a lot of a lot of golf and a lot of activities to support the golf, but that's that's what I love about you. You're just a golf degenerate. So yeah, I mean it go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Can we uh have you been since we talked about Tiger last week, have you seen the body cam and cop car footage that's come out now?

SPEAKER_00 2:23

I uh I have not watched uh intentionally I have not watched the body cam footage just because I think it's sad. Um I posted a story on Instagram, you know, all the memes, all the all the people sharing stuff, kind of piling on Tiger. You know, I I this is the one thing I don't like about our society is we kind of build people up in hopes of tearing them down. And Tiger, unfortunately, is definitely in the teardown stage right now. And and this is kind of the this is the gamble, this is the gamble that these athletes make, right? And I think if Tiger in a very similar way to kind of Bill Belichick, um in terms of like how he engaged with the media or didn't engage with the media and was kind of known to be tough on reporters, and that's well and good as you're winning Super Bowls and as you're at the the top of your game. But once you once you kind of come off that level and you're no longer the top dog, if something like this happens, you know, it's it's open season, and these these media people keep keep receipts and they don't mind to kind of rub your nose in it a bit because you've been rubbing their nose in it for so long. So I get it, I understand why you know why people kind of feel like it's open season on Tiger. I think it's a very serious issue uh with Tiger. I do find it very sad that so many people are now coming forward like, well, we've known about this problem forever. Well, we've known about this problem forever. Why is nobody like actively tried to to intervene? Yeah, you know, so I I have a hard time with it, you know. Tiger, and I've said this for years, you know, I I've heard rumblings of things. I'm I'm nobody in the know, but you know, I've heard rumblings of things, and and I'm observant being an alcoholic addict to myself. Um, and you see things, right? Like you kind of know when you're on that side of the fence, you kind of know the telltale signs. And I remember, and I I mean, I I wish I could find it. I haven't really looked that hard, but I legitimately remember sending people text messages uh when Tiger did the interview at the Genesis right before he had his serious car crash. And I was like, Tiger is lit, like his eyes were as red as the shirt he was wearing. Um, and you could you could tell that Tiger was not in a good good state, and you know, then he obviously has the the very bad car accident, which almost cost him his life. But, you know, this is this is something that's become a pattern with him, and something that I hope, you know, it's been reported that he's leaving the country to seek treatment. I think that's all well and good, but it it's concerning to me because you know, one of the one of the first things you got to do when you figure out that you're an alcoholic or you're told you're an alcoholic is you kind of have to admit it. And uh, you know, he's he's pleading not guilty to this DUI, uh, kind of going somewhere to get treatment. It it just it doesn't feel like Tiger's really willing to accept, and he may not, you know, be able to accept that he has an issue, but it doesn't seem like there's a lot of accountability here, and that's the part that scares me because I think if Tiger, if he can't accept this and he can't get the help he needs, you know, it seems like the guy, unfortunately, is trying to end his own life without ending his own life. And I I just I don't like that because he's meant so much to me, he's meant so much to so many of us. And I I've always said, you know, from a from a golfing perspective, I'm a huge Tiger Woods fan. I always have been uh watching him do stuff that hadn't been done in so long, and and just the tune-in factor with him, right? So like I'm super big fan of Tiger Woods the golfer, but I think Tiger Woods the person is a very complicated story, and I'm not sure that that's something that we should be modeling.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Um you talked about pleading not guilty and how sad it is. That's where I was going after seeing the body cam footage that I saw where he pled not guilty, and I just think it's you watch it and it's really sad to see him in the state he's in. Um like you're saying, he he must not think he has an issue. And I and I also blame everybody that's around him that isn't really um speaking some truth into his life and holding him accountable.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

I think it's tough because he just has a habit of of getting those people gone. Probably so you know it it's it's never I don't know if anybody's ever like the only person that's ever been able to tell Tiger anything is Earl. And since Earl's been gone, it's just been one issue after another with Tiger, and there just really hasn't been that person that's able to grab him by the ear and go, come here, son, um, and kind of talk some sense to him. But you know, I I think so many people have brought that point up. Why isn't somebody saying something to him? Well, you know, it's it's a weird, it's a weird position to be in when you're working with tour players, when you're when you're and I'm I can't speak to it because I've never been employed by Tiger, but you know, when you're working with these tour players, you're just trying to, you know, for the most part, trying to keep your job. Uh, you know, and it's it's no different than anybody listening to this that has a job.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

You know, you're signing the checks, just like a boss would.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Yeah, 100%. And if you're in your office and you don't agree with the policy coming down the pipe from you know, upper management or whatever, you know, yeah, could you walk into the office and and voice your displeasure and tell them why you think it's a bad idea? Sure, but don't be surprised if they turn around and go, well, if you're not going to be a team player, then you can there's the door, you know. So I just think it's it's nice to talk about these things um from the outside looking in, but in reality, it's very difficult. And once again, not trying to say that my alcoholism or my my being an addict is anything like his, but you you have to see it in the mirror for yourself. And the problem with being an alcoholic or an addict is is the fact that you don't think you have a problem, you think you're hiding it, and you don't realize that everybody can see it except you, and it's just that delusional part of it to where the drugs, the alcohol really kind of blinds you to what's actually going on. You almost kind of live in a distorted reality. Yeah.

unknown 9:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

I've been waiting to I assume they'd release the body cam footage at some point. I was kind of waiting for that to happen to make my own judgment on well what was his state actually.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

And unfortunately, it was pretty bad. And just the photos look don't look good. I mean, like I said, I haven't seen the body cam footage, nor do I want to, but just the photos that you've seen of him kind of standing around and and looking pretty confused, and you know, it's just hey, you know, okay, let's say he's he's not an addict, let's say he he doesn't have a problem, okay. Just throwing that out there. In that state, you shouldn't be driving, period. Right? If this if this is a one-off thing to where he woke up and and look, I I have zero doubt with as many surgeries as tigers had that he's not in some kind of pain. I I I believe that. Um, and I I think there's a lot of people, man, you know, that are addicted to these opiates that aren't bad people, aren't aren't people that sought that out. But you know, you have a surgery or you you go through something, you have an injury or or whatever the case is, and you get prescribed these things. I mean, it's not hard to get a prescription for this stuff, especially if you're going through one of these procedures. And they're they're very addictive. And if there's one thing about the human condition is, man, we like things that make us feel better. We make we like things that you know lower the stress, lower the pain. Um we we we love those things. And it's very easy to become addicted to this stuff. So, you know, I I don't know what the situation is. Uh, I don't think Tiger is the only person that is self-medicating. I'm not gonna name names because it's only gonna lead to more comments in the comment section than I care to deal with. But a lot of the people that we look up to in the golf industry, the older generation, um, you know, a lot of them have problems, their own problems with booze. And, you know, we talked about this a little bit after the tiger thing happened, you know, off the air. But, you know, I I think the lifestyle, you were driving everywhere, you were driving from one side of the country to the next. Uh, we didn't have any recovery. We didn't, we just we didn't have anything. And and these guys get banged up in the course of action and the course of travel, and they start self-medicating with booze. So a lot of these, you know, holier than thou figures in golf also were were closeted and and their struggles that they had with alcohol. So um, it's not uncommon. You see it a lot, you know. I know you know Puka Nakua from the LA ranks, he just talked about going into rehab. What a story. It's crazy, right? But yeah, this is kind of the problem is, you know, I think that there's two sides to the story with professional athletes. I I think there's the fame and and the highs that come from you know performing well and being elite at your position or elite in your sport. And I I think when you're going through that, I mean, I can't imagine. Like I've had these moments of triumph in my own personal life. And, you know, when I go and present, I get this crazy high from it. And then it's like you walk away from that or or the game ends, and all of a sudden it's not there anymore. But you're left with the, you know, if you're a professional football player, you're left with the pain from the game, uh, the injuries you've sustained, and you know, trying to manage a the pain, and then B kind of trying to trace that dragon of that high of performing at that level. You know, it's just it's no wonder that more of these guys don't struggle with these problems.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Yeah. It is sad. Well, the whole thing's sad.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Um I just wish people would give them some space, you know. Like I get it. Like, I I've gotten a million, a million text messages, a million DMs, you know, stuff with Tiger, and and I I get it. It's it's a it's the it's the pop culture right right now. You know, it it's he's topical. It's easy to kind of throw stones, but you know, I think we got to keep in mind he's a human being. And I think for a lot of us, he's inspired us to do things better and and and greater than maybe we thought we could. And you know, it's if he's gonna be your hero, then let him be your hero. But when your heroes are down, like that's when our job is to support them versus you know piling on them and and kind of tearing them down and and feeling like you're gonna get even.

Augusta Trip Plans And Menu Picks

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Yeah. That whole situation is sad. I feel for him. I hate the piling on. But what's not sad is you heading down south next week to the uh whole day.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

I think what it's Friday, so uh yeah, I fly out Monday, head down to the old ANGC for the uh the sabbatical. So you'll get there what day? Monday. You get there Monday. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Um is that the drive chip and putt day, or is that a practice round? What what happens on Monday?

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Monday's a practice round.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Okay. When is a drive chip and putt? Is it this week?

SPEAKER_00 14:24

I think it's I think it's over the week.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

The ANWA is right now.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

The the ANWA, I think, final round is on Saturday, if I if I have this correct. Okay. And then I think they do drive, chip, and putt, maybe on Sunday. And then that doesn't make any sense though, because Sunday's gonna be Easter. Maybe I don't know. I think it I think that's how it works though, because I think I know the ANWA wraps up on Saturday. I know that that that's accurate, or at least I think it's accurate. And then I think that they have the drive chip and pot the Sunday before, because I think they give them the participants in that maybe a a a ticket for Monday. Okay. I think is kind of how that goes. But Monday is one I'm 100% sure Monday's a practice round.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Uh so you're you're gonna be on site on Monday. Tell us what Michael Dutro are you getting. Uh what sandwich are you getting first? What what's the first are you getting the cookies? What's the first thing we're gonna do?

SPEAKER_00 15:31

I am a big fan of the cookies. Yeah. That that it's like so it's kind of a treat now because for so much of the time that I was attending Augusta, I was vegetarian. Uh, I've only been back from the vegetarian lifestyle for uh a couple years now, or maybe maybe like 18 months. But um, yeah, so for a long time I was surviving off cookies and fruit and uh things like that, but now the whole menu's open. So uh very excited. The uh pulled pork barbecue sandwich, big fan of that guy. Yep, hoping you were going there. Yeah, the the pulled pork barbecue sandwich is a is a favorite of mine. The ice cream uh sandwiches are unbelievable. They just have a knack, man, for you know, everything that Augusta is willing to put out is just done really well. Like, even with the cookies, like how many times have you looked at a chocolate chip cookie and you're like, oh, that looks really good, and then you open it up and it's like dry or it's not very good. It's kind of under it, looks better than it is. You never get a dry chocolate chip cookie at Augusta Nat. Like, everything is just really well done. The coffee in the morning's good. Uh, it's like the perfect temperature. Like, it's just they control everything that they do to such a level. But yeah, I'm excited. Uh I'm gonna fly on Monday morning. I don't know. My my plan right now is I'm gonna fly. I'm flying into Atlanta. Uh it just made more sense this year than flying direct to Augusta. Uh, I couldn't get a rental car in Augusta because I kind of booked things late. I wasn't sure if I was gonna go this year, but uh I'm gonna fly into Augusta, or I'm sorry, fly into Atlanta, drive over, uh, probably be there, you know, no later than noon. And then I'll probably wander out to the golf course from there and uh yeah, do a little merch shopping, you know. You gotta participate in that, that annual activity and check out the golf course a little bit. Say hello to some friends uh that are there that I see every year, and uh yeah, just kind of get the bearings set for the week and go from there. But I'll be there Monday through Friday.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Um the only thing that I wish Augusta did, they have the ice cream sandwich with the peach ice cream. Why can't they also just make a vanilla ice cream? I mean, we can't have two options.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Uh the I'm not a peach ice cream fan, so I hate that I can't indulge in that like others, but I think the little bits of peach in the ice cream are actually what make that thing so outstanding. Because I I don't think I've ever ate a peach on its own, nor probably would I. I'm not the biggest of peach fans, but the little chunks of peach in that ice cream sandwich are are really I think it, I think it sets it over the top. I'm I'm actually pro peach in the ice cream, I'm sorry to say.

How Chuck Navigates Augusta Practice Days

SPEAKER_01 18:23

So you'll you'll hit the merge tent. Are you um merge building?

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Technically, it's yeah, the building.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Yeah, it's not a tent. If you haven't been, it is certainly not a tent. It is not a tent. The uh do you have like a are you someone that likes to walk around? Do you like to kind of post up in a spot?

SPEAKER_00 18:47

I don't post anywhere. Um if you are gonna see me hanging out anywhere, you will see me uh hanging out on 10 T. And the reason that I hang out on 10 T is that there are two gentlemen there. One is uh kind of working security, and the other is the dude holding the flag uh that kind of signals where the ball is going off the T. But it's Larry uh who does the flagging and DP who does the security. And they are my I call them Augusta National Friends, and they've both been in those roles for I think 25 years plus. So they've been going to Augusta, doing that for the past 25 years. Uh, two phenomenal human beings. Uh, one actually, Larry actually lives here in Michigan, and DP, I believe, lives down in either South Carolina or somewhere like that. I can't remember off the top of my head, but they're just two tremendous individuals that I really enjoy spending time with, and they they're gracious enough to share the stories of the past 25 years, and and they know a lot of the ins and outs of Augusta National, and and I enjoy talking to them and hanging out with them. And I just think that's such a cool tee shot. Like, I think watching guys rip it off 10, kind of you know, hitting slingers down around the corner. Um, I think that's a super cool tee shot and a cool place to hang out. But, you know, in terms of hanging out, like you're gonna see me maybe on 10T, kind of talking to Larry and DP. And that's kind of my uh my base camp, if you will. Uh, you might see me hanging out on the putting green up there just behind 10. Uh, I'll kind of kind of hang out there a little bit, not as much as the putting green over in the practice area, just because that's where more of the work's getting done. The the practice green up by 10 and 1 is kind of more of a final kind of like warm-up bullpen, if you will. Uh, but then you know, down on the ranges, I tend to be down there. If you're looking for me uh down on the range, I generally am uh down on the lower right hand side, kind of where the players are coming in and out of, just because you know, I see a lot of coaches that I know get to spend a few minutes chatting with them while they're waiting for their players or coming in from working with their players. Uh, but those are kind of like the only three spots that I kind of hang out for any period of time. And then if I'm on the course, I'm I'm moving. Um, generally, kind of what I like to do is I will look at the T-sheet. I know generally which coaches are with which players. And, you know, I'll I'll find somebody on the T-sheet and go, oh, you know, you know, just to use an example, if I see John Rom going out, I know Dave Phillips is his coach. And I love talking to Dave and catching up with Dave. And Dave is obviously very busy with his commitments with John and TPI. So it's just nice to go out and walk with them and kind of have a chat and and kind of see what they're looking at and pick their brains. And that's kind of really what I use Augusta for. I I hate to say it, but I'm not watching as much golf as I am just connecting with other coaches and kind of trying to learn and get better at. My craft. So that's that's one of the things I like about A and G C is it's very difficult to be inside the ropes once the tournament starts. And if they're not inside the ropes, then obviously they're fair game and you can walk up. And over the years I've built relationships with these people, and and it's just really like I get to see Pete Cowan every year. I follow him around like a lost puppy. Uh so uh yeah, I I just really enjoy my time with the other coaches and get to just reconnect and see people. And every now and then somebody might recognize me and come up and say hello, and that's always a treat as well. So yeah, it's it's just fun, man. It's it's a great atmosphere, as you know, you've been there. Um, you know, I always I always treat it as a huge privilege. Uh anytime I'm at Augusta National, I I kind of always try to think about how many people would sell one of their children to be there. Um, so I always try to really soak it in. I I get there at 6 30 in the morning and I try not to leave until somebody taps me on the shoulder and says, Sir, it's it's time to leave Augusta National. So they're they're long kids.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Yeah, you're in it. I'm in it.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

And it's when I'm and then uh I guess we'll have to find a I don't know when we're gonna fit in a pod for next week with your maybe uh maybe Friday from the uh from the airport. From from the Sky Club, from the Sky Club in Atlanta, yeah, something like that.

The Honors Visit And Chattanooga Gems

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Um and then we've got uh right after that, we've got some exciting, we're gonna be on location live doing the pod together for the first time. Uh Michael is coming down um to the honors and uh doing a two-day you're doing two days of lessons with with our members. Yeah, we're doing a presentation for the membership and a presentation one night, and and then we're gonna finally get you out on the golf course. You've been hitting some balls, you've been kind of getting.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

I think it's gonna be my first round of the year.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Yeah. It's gonna be a great course to do it on.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

Yeah, I you know, you said it, so now I can say it. Uh, but I'm I'm really looking forward to that trip. I think, you know, I I've told you this uh before, but I didn't really have access to uh public golf, I'm sorry, private golf courses uh growing up. That wasn't really what I did or or where I kind of hung out. I was a public golf kid. And the first really nice private club that I worked at uh had a lot of members that were members also at the honors, or had a few members, I should say, that were members at the honors. And they would they would go down there and they would come back and just talk about it in the most glowing of ways. And I I it was kind of like the first golf, and as crazy as this sounds, it was like kind of one of the first golf courses that was on my radar is like, oh, this is like somewhere special. And you know, meeting you and I've I've been down before and worked with some of the members there. Uh, it's just such a treat, man. Like that that golf course is is so special. Henrik and Skyler, you know, do such an amazing job, as well as the rest of the staff. I mean, I haven't even been there when it's operating, I don't think, but um, you know, just really excited. I I love that place. I really I like what it stands for. Um, it's it's very much geared towards the serious golfer, towards the real golfers. Um, a lot of walking, a lot of a lot of tournaments, a lot of events, uh, very difficult golf course. But yeah, I just think that place is special, man. Like I really enjoyed last time I was down. Uh, you know, Henrik and Skyler were were so nice, and I think you were involved with this, but you know, having me, you know, stay there on property, which was just mega cool. And you know, I woke up that morning and and just kind of walked around a little bit. And man, what a cool place. Like, there, there's not, I've been to a lot of golf courses since I was a young man, but there's there's not a lot of places that kind of have that feel uh to them. So I'm I'm super excited, super thankful to be invited again, uh, and looking forward to working with people down at the honors. You're kind.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

It is a special spot, and everybody's looking forward to having you back. And I'm selfishly looking forward to getting to spend some time playing golf with you, but also maybe getting some you just want to torture me.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

That's what it is. Like you just want to get me out of there in the golf course.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

And like no, it's that I enjoy playing golf.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

I'm scared of that place. Like, I I'm gonna start having nightmares probably at some point next week. I mean, I I don't think people realize how difficult that place is. At 155 slopes, it is the highest slope you can get, yes. Uh I mean Skyler took me out when I was there last time and drove me around the golf course a little bit uh before we got going that morning. And number eight just is terrifying. Like, I still that thing haunts me. Like, there's just there, there's difficult part threes, and then there's that thing. And I'm not saying it's unfair, it's it's not, but you just I mean, especially if you were playing the back tees, like you just gotta step up there and hit the shot of your life just to hit the green.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Yeah, Pete Pete Dyes certainly did some of his best work there of making it visually intimidating. And we had a um we've got the U.S. women's AM this summer, uh, USAM coming in a couple years. But we had a uh UTC, uh University of Tennessee, Chattanooga, Go Mox, their golf team uh hosted an event there early uh last fall and had the who's who of golf in town. And uh I think there were four or five Walker Cup participants in the field. Um and when they played it all the way back on the last day, so pretty close to 7700. I think it was like 76 in change. I think the scoring average was like four or five over par. I I think there were two guys under par that day, two or three guys. It was not very many players under par that day, so it can be a bit of a challenge. We won't play it that far back, but I will be playing from the forward tees.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Um I'm I'm excited, I think it's gonna be fun to have you down. We're gonna do the pod live from the teaching center, hopefully get some content. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Um, it's a great facility. I mean, it's it's so rare because you know, I I think by and large, the honors is a a national club. Um and for you guys, you know, and and a credit to Henrik, right? Because Skylar kind of made it sound like this is this is his baby, but you know, the the teaching center that they've built there, you know, is not something you typically see at a national club. You know, it's it's got the track man, it's got the uh the the foot um the well pupped big tilt in there. Uh you guys have got your own set of force plates. You know, that that's really a a credit to Henrik and Skylar and the team there, uh, really investing in its membership and making sure that you guys have everything there you could possibly want. But yeah, it's it's super cool, man. Like it's it's gonna be great. I think it's gonna be a lot of fun uh to do the podcast from there in person. I think that'll be a little bit different. Um, but at the same time, it's you know, it's just such a treat to be down there. So once again, I'm super thankful and I want to make sure that you know I I I share that with everybody. And and if you get a chance, if you're if you're somebody that knows somebody that's a member at the honors or or whatever the case may be, you know, if you get a chance to go there, man, it's it's definitely worth the trip for sure. It's a special spot. Um I mean that it's kind of funny. Like I didn't realize, you know, maybe it's because I grew up in Kentucky and we just make fun of Tennessee the whole time, but you know, it it's it's wild like how many bangers you guys have down there. Like there's there's a a lot of good golf down in in that Chattanooga area. I was really surprised by that.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Yeah, Chattanooga and it um it's one of the reasons that the golf team at UTC has been so successful over the years. Um, they've got another great team right now headed up by Blaine Woodruff, and we're doing everything we can to keep him around uh as head coach. But it's um all in like a you know 30-minute radius. You've got the honors, Chattanooga Golf and Country Club, which is a 1896 Donald Ross on the Tennessee River, which is a fantastic layout. Um, Lookout Mountain, the Seth Rayner that's it was just redone and has some incredible views. And um there's so many courses around here that and it's uh it is a bit of a hotbed. I would say it's the certainly the best in the state of Tennessee as far as collection of golf course talent. Um if that's even a phrase.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Uh we're making it one, but yeah, we're gonna make it a lot of it. Golf course talent. Golf course talent.

Swing Changes Versus Scoring Skills

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Yeah. Um you uh you had a listener or a follower reach out. You finally got uh a suggestion. Um talk us through what this person was inquiring about and hopefully we can shed some light on it.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

Yeah, I I mean I I had posted um last week because we I had a a day where we shot content for the YouTube channel. Uh so if you're unaware and you're listening to this podcast, the Measured Golf YouTube channel, uh, we have a lot of got uh a lot of content there for people looking to work on their golf swings, uh looking for some information about that stuff. So we have a lot of content that we shoot for that. But I had posted to my story on Instagram, um, you know, hey, what are you guys interested in seeing? What do you want to learn more about? And I believe it was Mike Marcinek who reached out to me, and I love Mike, great guy. And he was like, you know, he had a couple of different things, but one of his last points was um, is it better trying to work on your golf swing, quote unquote, and and improve your skills, or are we better off trying to maximize what we already have and get better at scoring with that? And I don't think that question ever gets asked very often. I I think I think by and large, golfers are convinced that they have to get better at their skills, and if they get better at their skills, their score will go down. But I think it kind of gets into the conversation of you know ball striking versus scoring. And I don't think that conversation's really taking place or or anywhere in the in the mind of a lot of our golfers, and I think it's it's it's really a valid point. And I'm glad that Mike brought it up because for some reason I hadn't even thought of it. But I live in this world of you know, trying to help people with their golf swing and hit the ball more solid and hit the ball farther and things like that and straighter. Um, but it's it's really interesting to me the idea of hey, you know, we're transitioning, right? Especially here where I live. I you're already well on your way to this golf season, but we're kind of transitioning here where I live from you know the quote unquote off season to the you know in season. And we're gonna go from you know not playing golf to playing golf. So in the off season, you know, I think we do a lot of that skill development and we, you know, maybe try to gain some speed, or we we try to work on you know club face stability, or we try to we try to do these things, right? We work in our putting, we work in our chipping, it's very technique heavy, but we're we're not necessarily working on refining our technique, we're actually trying to improve it, we're trying to add new skills, we're trying to make a change to our technique. But what happens when we transition to playing? And I think so many people struggle on the golf course and have very little course management, not because they don't know how to do that, but because they're so focused on trying to make perfect golf swings. And I know this from experience, but by and large, and and I feel very comfortable saying this, but by and large, the average golfer thinks they're gonna shoot lower scores by ball striking the golf course to death. And there's just very few times that you're gonna go out there and ball strike it to death. And the the stat that I kind of like to use to reinforce that is if you're best in the world, if you're world class, if you are leading uh greens hit on the PGA tour over the course of a season, you're averaging like 72, 73 percent of your greens hit in regulation. You're not gonna hit every green. Like that, the idea that that's what good ball striking looks like is is just very far-fetched. So I think that there is a conversation to be had around, hey, I want to make perfect golf swings versus hey, I want to go out here today and I want to maximize what I do, and I want to be willing to accept that I'm not gonna hit it perfect every time, but I need to focus on scoring versus just trying to make pretty perfect swings. Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

I think you and I talked about that a little bit. Um it was a couple weeks ago. It was like back to back days. Back to back days, I had I had flagged it one day. I mean, it was like when we looked at my clip data, six or seven shots in the greens that were inside 12 feet. And I think I made one putt of that distance and then and shot like 73. Come back the next day. I don't know that I had but one or two that were close, and um didn't feel like I struck it that great, shot 69, and didn't feel like I did anything really impressive. Um yeah, to your point of the ball striking is great, like it can make things a whole lot easier, but it doesn't always necessarily translate to the scores. And when you get to where you're playing some higher level golf courses, where you can miss it and where you cannot becomes such uh a um that becomes a skill, I think, of like I see it at the honors all the time. There'll be certain certain pins, like you just cannot be on one side of the green or the other the likelihood of of getting up and down just plummets. Um I think that's a true skill of understanding when I hit this shot, where does it need to be missed if it's missed?

Build A Miss And Pick Clubs

SPEAKER_00 37:59

Yeah, you know, and and understanding your golf game well enough to understand what your misses look like, right? You know, I I think going back to that perfect versus reality, um you know, when you're looking when you're looking at an approach shot, you know, to to kind of keep it based around hitting greens and regulation, but when you're looking at that shot from the fairway or from the rough or or wherever you're at, yeah, it it would be great if you pull this off if you make that perfect swing, if if if you hit it exactly where you're looking, like that would be wonderful. And obviously, that's kind of the goal for us. But if you don't pull that shot off, if you don't make that perfect swing, where's this ball going? Um, I think that that's something that a lot of golfers struggle with shooting the scores they want to shoot. I think that's something that they fail to look at and fail to even think about is you know, hey, I I know with this seven iron in my hands that if I don't hit, if I don't pull it off, if I don't hit it where I'm looking, you know, I know it's gonna miss, it's gonna overfade to the right. Like that's my tendency. Okay, well, what does right of that pen look like? You know, what is right of that green look like? And if that to your point is the place you can't hit it on that hole, if that's where that deep bunker is, or if that's where that penalty area is, okay, fine. Like, I can't be looking right at that pen. I have to be looking 20 feet left of that pen and trying to hit a perfect shot to there. And then if I miss it a little bit, A, I've got enough club in my hands to still get on the green, but B, it's going to kind of start to the right, or maybe it's going to fade to the right, or whatever the case is. But now all of a sudden, like you accidentally hit it close to the hole. And I think that's really important for golfers to kind of factor in. And I think so often we just get out there and we we think perfect, we think perfect, we see straight lines like this is what I want, this is what I'm trying to do. And yes, that that is definitely what we're trying to do, but at the same time, like you have to build in a margin.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

And you uh you talked to me about it a lot of if I've pulled a club, and you may have to help me with how you word it, but if I've pulled a club that I have to hit perfect to hit the number, then that's not the club. It's not the club.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

Um and I think like in that situation though, right? Like let's say you got a back pen, okay, it's on the back of a green. If you have a back pen and you're trying to figure out what club to hit there, I don't mind you having to hit it perfect to get back to that back pen. Okay, because I know that you're not going to hit it over that green, which is in this particular case what we don't want to do here because now we're short-sighted. So, like if I have a back pen and I have to hit this thing with everything I have, or I have to hit this thing perfect to get it there, to me, that's like an okay situation. Like I can live with that because let's say you don't hit it perfect. Now you're on the middle of the green, but you still have a putt, you've still hit your green irregulation. We're getting the putter in the hands as quickly as possible. In that scenario, I'm totally fine. But if I have a front pin or a middle pin and I have to hit it perfect to get it there, I don't love that scenario. Yeah, and the reason I don't love that scenario is because I never want to be standing there having to hit it perfect. And it's a sliding scale, right? I mean, if you're a really high-level player and you flush it a lot, you know, consistently, then maybe you can get away with that a little bit more than if you're like a 15 handicap and you don't hit the ball so solid all the time. The chances that you're gonna stand there in that moment and flush one, I mean, it's it's a it's a way lower percentage shot for you than it would be to take the next club up, make like a three-quarter swing, probably gonna improve contact. But now we're we it's way easier for us to get that ball to the green versus having to like be above ourselves and hit this perfect shot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

I think with you talking to me about being okay not hitting the perfect shot and changing clubs based off that, that you also have to be okay with um let's say it's that back pin and I'm pulling the club that I need to flush to get it back there. And let's say I don't flush it. And I'm 35 feet. I've gotten the putter in my hand quickly. Um that and the pins on the front, I do decide, okay, I'm gonna take the club that I don't have to hit perfect, but I'm also you know 20 feet long, and you have to you have to give yourself some grace that like okay, I actually hit that club well, it did fly the pin, or the one you don't hit well, you like you're saying, you accidentally get it close. I think you have to I'm curious to hear your thoughts, but I think you have to be really happy with okay, that front pin, I flew it by 20 feet, I hit it well, and that's you know, that's okay. I hit it well, or the one that is in the back that I didn't flush, and I'm short. Yeah, uh that's okay. There was my miss, and it just happened to be when I was trying to go for the back.

Proximity Stats And TV Myths

SPEAKER_00 43:44

But your miss is on the green, which is which is really just good strategy, right? I mean, having that miss in the in the short bunker uh or you know, whatever the case is, that that's no good because now all of a sudden we're exposing ourselves. themselves to make them bogey or worse versus getting it on. I mean, don't get me wrong, every now and then you're gonna three-pot. Like even the best putters in the world, every now and then are gonna three-pot. Uh, that's just the nature of the beast. But, you know, statistically, getting the ball onto the green, getting the putter in your hands, the margin of error is gonna be way lower. And, you know, I I think this kind of I've been having this conversation a lot because, like I said, we're kind of in this transitional period here in Michigan where people are getting onto the golf course. And and the one thing that I don't love about simulators uh or driving ranges is that people just get enamored with with trying to hit that line, trying to hit that straight line. And you know, realistically, if we think about this, the PGA tour average proximity from 150 yards is 18 feet seven inches. Now, if you tune in to watch golf on TV, you're never gonna see 18 feet seven inches unless it's like the the group that's leading. You're gonna see that because it's a made for TV show. They want to show you the best shots that are being hit. And I'll let you in on a secret. If they all of a sudden cut to somebody and you don't know who they are, they're gonna hit it real close, if not. Yeah, they've hit it close, they've made birdie, right? Like it's made for TV. They're trying to basically. I think that the current way that golf is portrayed on TV is not different than the top 10 on Sports Center. It's the same thing, right? They're just showing you the highlights, they're not showing you like you see that guy, he's never been in a final group before. Um, he's he's playing really well that week, and he gets himself into the final the final pairing, right? And you see his first t shot, and then you don't see him the rest of the day. And like that guy shot 77, right? Like, they don't show you a single shot, even though he's in the final group, because he's not playing well. Yeah, they're gonna show you all the guys that are playing well and all the guys that are making a run at the leader or whatever the case is. But going back to my original point, you know, once again, best golfers in the world on the PGA tour, average proximity from 150 yards, 18 feet seven inches. That is a world-class golf shot. And trying to convince golfers that hitting it to 20 feet is great, is dude, you got a better chance trying to get people to change their their diet than you do talking them into this. Yeah, people don't want to buy, they think that you got to flag it for it to be a really good golf shot. And the reality is is 20 feet is amazing, and that's 20 feet if you're really good. If you're not really good, if you're like to use the example we used earlier, like a 15 handicap. If you're hitting it within 40 feet of that pin, that's a good shot. That's not a miss, that's not a failure, that's not you suck at golf. 40 feet is really good if you're a 15 handicap, it just is. And and people, I think, get really frustrated with golf, they think golf is really hard, they but it's because people are putting these unrealistic expectations on what they should be doing. Don't get me wrong, if you're a world-class player on the PGA tour and you hit it to 40 feet, yeah, probably not doing the best. But if you're a 15 handicap, you're not the same. This is not an apples to apples. If you're a 15 handicap, we need to be thinking like, hey, if I hit it within 40 feet, that's really good. And what I really try to explain to the 15 handicappers of the world is like you kind of have to live in this 60-foot window. And what I mean by that is you got 30 feet side to side, front to back, to kind of play with. And if you are a 15 handicapper and you don't flush it, you don't hit it perfect. Fine, that's okay. You're not supposed to, you're a 15 handicap, you're allowed to miss it a little bit, but if it's landing in that 60-foot circle, okay, you're doing your job. That is a 100% a-oka golf shop for you. I get it, it's not going to lead to a lot of birdies, it's gonna make it a little more difficult to make your pars, but that's why you're a 15 handicap. So going back to the original point of should I be working on my skills and trying to make my golf swing better, or should I be maximizing what I have? Well, if you're maximizing what you have and you're a 15 handicap and you're realizing that hitting it to 60 feet is pretty good for you, okay. Well, I would probably listen to our previous episode where we talk about the importance of lag putting and work on your lag putting a bit, or if you're gonna be hitting it to 60 feet, you're probably not gonna hit the most greens in regulation that you possibly could. So you better go to the short game, Mary, and work on your chipping and pitching and make sure that you can get this ball up and down.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

Yeah. You were talking about proximity, and I went and looked at my clipped out app. I wanted to see over 18 holes, the tour average is 32 feet eight inches. So I mean, that's a think about how many times they have wedges in their hand, and it's still telling you over 18 holes that it's 32 feet eight inches into the green. So that's a that's a wide margin. Um I was actually having this conversation yesterday with my friend Josh. He was working on he was like, oh my no man's land is like 40 to 70 yards. I just don't have a swing for that. And I think you and I were talking um and this goes to the maximizing what we have versus skill. I believe you told me that Scotty Scheffler had some crazy stat. Tiger. Oh, it was tiger. And tell us that stat, it was it was the the the distant sense that he never had or never got himself in.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

The last season that he kind of played his full schedule, he had zero attempts, I believe it was 30 to 70 yards for the entire season. Not one.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

And you have to if he played let's say he played 20 events. So he's got a a possibility of eighty rounds, right? Let's say he makes the let's say he makes the cut in every one of them. Yeah. He's got eighty rounds of golf where he does not hit a shot from that distance. Yeah. So clearly he knows that's not his strength. And as you've talked about before, guys that have a high ball speed, it is harder to be good at those distance wedges of how much speed you gotta take off. So he knows that. And I said, I said that to Josh yesterday, and he was just kind of blown away. He's like, What do you mean? I was like, Yeah, like didn't have a yard, like did not have a shot from there. So he clearly played away from that. And talk to us a little bit about how that's not the worst thing in the world, the best player in the world plays away from certain yardages.

Par-Five Layups And Favorite Numbers

SPEAKER_00 51:19

Yeah, 100%. You know, it's I think it's one of the, you know, I don't I don't do it as much as I would like. And, you know, I would like to do it more. But when I get out on the golf course with my players, especially the juniors, um, you know, we get to a par five, and you know, generally when I go out with my juniors, I I go, you know, I try to make it a little tougher on them. And if maybe they're they're used to playing, you know, the white T's or the forward T's, I move them back. Um, I make it harder because I want to see how they respond to that. But the big thing that I'm looking for is what do they do on these par fives? And the reason I like to move them back, and and even if I don't move them back on every hole, I move them back on the par fives. I do not want them playing a yardage with me at least, to where they can get to the par fives and two. I want to see what their decision making looks like on these par fives that they can't get to. And more often than not, they make the biggest error that I think there is, which is hey, I can't get to this par five and two. Well, that's fine. I'm just gonna pull three wood or pull mini driver or pull whatever the club is these days, and I'm just gonna bash it up there as far as I can. And I think that is one of the cardinal errors of really good core strategy because you're just accepting whatever number, it's kind of like throwing dice and just accepting whatever comes up. But the conversation that I'm having with them is hey, if I gave you a number between you know, zero and not zero, but if I gave you a number between 50 and 100, a yardage, which would you feel the best with? And it's funny how many times it's like 100 yards or 90 yards or or something, 80 yards, like 80 to 100 tends to win out in this conversation because they that that's like a gap wedge for them, or that's like a full sand wedge for them, or or whatever the case may be, depending on how strong they are or whatever. But like 80 to 100 is kind of like the number that they throw out there. And I go, okay, well, how far do you have to the pen? And they're like, Oh, well, I have, you know, just use round numbers because it's early and I haven't drank enough coffee. Let's say they have 300 yards left to the pen. Okay, cool. Well, we can't hit it 300 yards to get there, okay? But if you want to have 80 to 100 yards, 300 is too far, let's say 250. Okay, so 250, and they want to leave 100 in. Okay, well, why don't we hit something 150 yards and leave ourselves that 100 yard shot? And they're like, Well, wait a minute, I can hit it way farther than 150 yards. I know you can, but we're trying to lay this ball up to a position to where you feel like you're really competent and are going to be able to hit one closer than you would when we get kind of up there tight to where you feel like you don't have a swing for that. So I think it's really important, and and I get it, like in that example, whatever, but keep in mind we're talking about a junior player. But at the same time, like you should have a number that you feel really good with from 100 to like 70 yards. There's there's a number there, it's a half swing, it's a whatever, but you need to have a number that you feel really good with, and then your mission when you get to that par five, and it's like, hey, maybe I could hit one perfect and get it there, but there's bunkers or there's a penalty area or whatever's going on, cool. Maybe instead of trying to hit the hero shot, maybe we lay this back to where I'm a lot more comfortable. And by laying it back, not only do you put a yardage in your hands that you feel more comfortable with, but generally speaking, like it's probably a little wider in the fairway. There's probably less bunkers around there. Like, there's generally kind of a sweet spot to where you're not going to wind up in this scenario to where all of a sudden you have to do this crazy stuff just to even get the ball in the green or close to the hole. And now we, at worst case, are making par versus hitting it into a deep bunker, hitting it into a penalty area, and now making a bogey on a par five, which isn't helping anybody's scoring average.

SPEAKER_01 55:37

And I'm not, uh I don't have all the strokes gained to memorize, but I do know, isn't it something like you gotta get to nearly 20 yards of the pin before the numbers even really start to change between like 120 and 30? Like there it's a pretty large gap of the the decimals don't even move that much of what you'll make to hold out from there. So I think I have that right. Do I have to that? Yeah, it's a it's a wide margin where you'd be like, oh well, there's no way that 120 and 40 are the same. Well, they are they are nearly the same, and that's where I think, and I'm I'm guilty of it at times, and I've had to working with you, I've had to really pull myself back of okay, yeah, I can hit this up there, but this part five has tall grass all around the the green. There's two bunkers that you can't be in, and instead of just bashing it up there, um I've had to like, okay, let's hit seven iron, let's get to this number. And but it's getting to a number I know I can attempt to make a score at um rather than because you you can't the tiger five, you cannot make a bogey on a par five. Not good for you. You cannot do it, and it feels it it feels worse than making a bogey anywhere else. Um I agree.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

And it it's it's not even really it's not even like I just think that so many golfers are thinking that birdie is good and bogey is bad. And and and don't get me wrong, if you're a 15 handicapper, a bogey on the par five isn't the worst thing that's ever happened to you. No. Um, if you're a really good player, a bogey on a par five can, like in your situation, make you feel pretty bad. But at the same time, it's like it's just this understanding that you can't force birdies to happen. Yeah, you have to put yourself in a position to be able to create these birdies, and and it's it's way harder to create these positions to make birdie than it is to create these positions to where we we're not gonna make bogey. And you know, yeah, driving it up there or hitting your three wood up there as far as you can, having a random number, throwing dice, you know, trying to hit a wedge in there from an awkward lie or an awkward distance, you know, the chances that you're hitting that that monumentally closer than you would from a distance you feel good at with a good lie, like you said, the math just doesn't really bear out. But when you force that situation and you force that position and you just bash it up there near the green, it's like now all of a sudden we really we're really not gaining anything and we're just exposing ourselves to way more risk. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:43

I think the same would be said for the short parfs that are you know kind of quote drivable. Um are you can you actually get it there with driver? Can you actually get in a spot that strokes gained would tell you is advantageous to hit the driver, or is it hey, we really need to think about what club we're hitting off this tee to give us again that yardage that we're looking for?

Practice Short Game To Lower Scores

SPEAKER_00 59:14

I just think it goes to the current game and and the way that people will kind of engage with the current game. And it's gotta be, you know, you go to a driving range this time of year, man, it is packed. You go to a short game area, ghost town. You go to the putting green, ghost town. You know, if if I was gonna say anything about this, this kind of conversation we're having about working on technique and or trying to maximize what you have. When I hear maximize what you have, I hear you need to go practice your short game. Yeah. Uh, and we just don't see people doing that. And I think the reason that there isn't that advantage of hitting the ball closer to the closer to the pen is because wedge play is so bad. You know, you just see so many people really struggle with a wedge in their hands, you see so many people really struggle when they get outside of 30 feet on the green. Uh, and it's just situations to where people aren't spending enough time with and aren't really learning the benefit of, you know, hey, you're gonna miss greens, you're gonna miss fairways, you know. If you have the opportunity to go and hit a few balls out of the rough at like a driving range, that's great. Do it, don't hit them all off a perfect lie. Uh, if you have a short game area, remind me about that all the time. Yeah, get it out of the rough, hit it out of the rough. You know, if if if you're not good at that, go find a place, you know, go to some random field and just take some old crappy golf balls and like hit it out of some deep stuff. Um, you know, fairway bunkers, if you can find one of those, it's great to to get some reps in with that. It but you know, to kind of do things that are they're more accessible, I just think people have got to spend way more time, you know, with those distance wedges, with the the wedges around the greens, hitting some bunker shots. And it's it's just funny because you see these golfers, and I'm gonna lean towards the 15 handicapping up, they're just convinced, well, if I just hit the ball better, I won't be in the rough. If I just hit the ball better, I'll be on the green. Like if I can just fix my ball striking, I won't have to deal with these things. Well, no, the reality is, is no matter how good you get at that, these situations are still going to happen, and you're eventually gonna have to learn how to deal with them. That's that's what's holding their score back, it's not the the ball striking. And the thing that I like so much about clipped is you start looking at this, and you're like, Well, if I could fix my driving, and if I could fix my approach, those are your two best categories. Not for you in particular, but in general, most people, their driving and their approach is way better than their around the green score. And the reason for that is because they don't work at that very much. They spend all their time when they do practice hitting drivers, hitting irons, doing all that stuff, and then they never do anything with their short game or their putting. Uh, so I think it's one of those things to where you just have to be mindful and aware of the fact that no matter how good you get with your ball striking, you're gonna miss screens, you're gonna miss fairways, and you're gonna have to learn to deal with those at a certain point.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:16

And giving yourself some grace that you don't have to flag it. You can it's great when you do. Yeah, great when you do, but not the expectation. Not the expectation. Um and the the uh last thing, kind of wrapping us up, when we talk about skill versus what you have. You talk about the importance of when you get on the T, you've been on the range. Um, you know, it doesn't, as you like to remind me, it doesn't matter how you hit it on the range. That's it is a warm-up. You're getting your body moving, who cares how you hit it? But when you get on the first T, how important is it to consciously have that thought of I'm not thinking golf swing? Like you might have a little thought, a little cue, but other than that, it's very much like the brain needs to go a bit subconscious, correct? Like a little like autopiloty.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:27

Yeah, I think that's that's a good point. You know, it's at some point the the mind, the brain has to switch from this kind of internal thought process to this external thought process, uh, to where we're thinking more about the target and the shot that we're trying to hit and where we want that ball to land and all of those good things. So I definitely think, you know, it would be nice if we could just kind of go blank and kind of have that zen moment to where everything just kind of happens uh because it happens. But in reality, I think most people have, you know, one feel. Uh they have one or two thoughts that they kind of like and kind of comfort them with their golf swing. Uh from personal experience, I know, you know, when I play play well, you know, it's kind of like that same thought, that same idea that I kind of keep reinforcing throughout the entire round. Um, and like I I remember, you know, playing at the old course at St. Andrews, which amazing. And I've talked about that before on the podcast, but you know, I remember, you know, I think I shot a 75 that day, first time around the old, uh, played really well, had a great day, but it was one thought the whole day. And and honestly, that entire week that I was there in Scotland, I played pretty well the entire week. And it was that it was weird. It was the longest that I've ever went with like one thought. And like this is what I'm trying to do with my golf swing. So yeah, I I think I think for most golfers, they start thinking about the swing. They start trying to think about what they were doing and what they were feeling on the driving range. And I think it gets a little muddy. So I think definitely being able to switch from that, hey, I'm kind of open and exploring and feeling and doing all these things when we're at the driving range. When we get to the golf course, like we've got to, we've got to step up and execute and do what we know how to do. So I definitely think there's there's something to be said for trying to focus a little bit less on what we're feeling and what we're trying to do, and focusing a bit more on getting the ball onto target. And the really cool thing about that is that the there's pretty good research about this, but the more we can focus on where we want the ball to go versus how we make it go there, generally, you know, our nervous system and and the things that we've trained kind of kick in a bit more there and help us kind of find a way to get that ball on target. And the example. I always give is you know, you you you crumple up a piece of paper, right? And you throw it at the wastebasket, and like you don't even think about it, you just do it, and it goes in, you're like, Oh, that was pretty cool. But then you're like, Oh, let me try that again or whatever, and it gets harder because now you're thinking about it versus just doing it. So I really like uh really like that idea of when we get out there, it's more about execution and less trying to think how we do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:26

Yeah, it's hard to at least for me, my type A personality, harder for me to allow myself to have to lose a little bit of control to gain control. Um, but we did it um where we're talking about what what you were just saying with the uh intention and where you want the ball to go uh rather than how to do it. We did that this week. You were like, all right, hit one off the toe. Now intentionally shank it. Now move it to the and it was like every time you asked me to do it, I did I wasn't thinking, well, how do I get the it was like okay, well, here's how I would feel like I would hit that, and was able to nail it every single time as we kind of worked through something, but um I think for people like myself, hard to do that, but that is where you're gonna end up playing your best golf, and where I notice I play my best golf is one little cue and just kind of thinking about here's how I want the shot to turn out.

Mental Game, Food, And Emotions

SPEAKER_00 1:07:27

Kind of going back into to maximizing versus trying to create, right? It's it's there's a lot of skills, man, uh, to golf. You know, I think that's what makes it so difficult is you know, for as many actual skills as you have to have to swing the golf club efficiently and and to do certain shots and things like that, there's just as many human skills that you have to manage really well. And you know, it's there's golfers, there's and I guarantee you there's a ton of golfers listening to this right now that working on being able to regulate their emotions, you know, like that would that would be a huge thing for them in terms of being able to score better and to play better. It's just getting better at managing the emotions that happen while you're out there and not getting so frustrated or angry at yourself. Um, there's a lot of people out there who would play a lot better if they could manage their expectations better. There's a lot of people out there who would do better if they actually would breathe throughout the round and actually did some breath work. I mean, there's a million different human skills uh that have to kind of be in place for us to operate at a high level. And, you know, fortunately for me, being around some other sports other than just golf at a very high level and working in that capacity, um, you know, whether it's the NBA, the NFL, the NHL, um, whatever it is, man, like there's a lot more work going on from the human side perspective than there is the actual skill of doing that thing. And that's where I think a lot of golfers really kind of get lost in the sauce is once again, they think if they just show up and make perfect swings, it's all going to go well. Well, what kind of what kind of mental state do you need to be to hit better shots? What kind of physical readiness do you have to possess to be able to hit a lot of really good shots? And, you know, the big thing that that I think really drives me crazy is how many golfers is and and I know I talk about the juniors a lot, but I see it more with them. But how many golfers go out there and drink a bunch while they play golf? How many golfers go out there and eat a bunch when they play golf? How many golfers don't eat anything? And you're out there for a long period of time. You're out there for four hours. And this is very much, you know, golf and making a swing is very much this feel-oriented oriented thing. So if you don't eat over four hours, you're gonna feel quite a bit different than you did when you started when you end. So, you know, kind of managing, you know, how do you keep, you know, everything kind of where it needs to be for you to perform your best? Like, probably need to have some snacks that you know aren't a hot dog. I don't know. Uh, need to have some snacks there with you, maybe limit the alcohol consumption. Maybe there's a lot of things that golfers could do to get better. It's just once again, and and we've had this conversation a lot. A lot of golf, I mean, it's a leisurely activity, and people are out there to have fun and do what they do. And and for some people that's drinking while they play golf, and for other people, it's whatever. But you know, if if you're serious about shooting lower scores, then A, you have to understand what goes into that. You have to understand where your baseline and where your benchmarks are, and then I think it's probably a lot easier to tackle some of the human things than it is to tackle the actual skill technique things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:52

Well, I think you've given everybody some great advice, good thoughts. Um and it's simpler, it is so much simpler than having the perfect golf swing. You can really hone it down and and make some pretty simple objectives for yourself to see the um to see the scores uh be lower and and see the the uh better results that you're looking for. Um But we're gonna be excited to hear from you next week as you're live from Augusta where the eyes of the golfing world will be.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:36

Um real quick, I'm not finding it, unfortunately. I thought I had it more ready. But something that's really interesting to me, gosh, I wish I could find this. But I was looking. Because I I was thinking about doing something with this on Instagram uh and I just ended up not doing it. But the thing that's really interesting to me is if you ask people which golf swing do you want? Right? If you just like throw that out there, hey, if I could give you any golf swing, who which golf or swing would you want? I think the answer 80% or more of the time would be Adam Scott. If you ask golfers which golf swing they don't want, right, it's just unappealing to them. I think most of the people would answer Jim Furick. If you look at their stats side by side, about the same.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:38

If you look at their if you look at one more, has he won more than Scott?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:43

I think Furich has actually won more events. I think they both have a major. Um same amount of majors. I think Furick maybe has won a couple more times than Adam Scott, and Furick is like a runaway with money earned. Yeah. Um but yeah, I mean, and and think about that for a minute, right? Like everybody thinks that if they had Adam Scott swing, that's the the the end all be all. Yeah. But and that people think Furick swings like terrible, and why would you ever swing the gun? Dude, they've accomplished more or less the same things.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:18

And I just think that that's really interesting. It's an interesting topic, and it's an interesting thing to kind of look at and realize like, once again, like if your swing looks like Jim Furick and you're hitting it, you know, kind of well, and you know where it's going to go and you hit it well, and you know where it's gonna go and you kind of miss it a bit, you're nothing wrong with that. And it it's it's learning how to once again like take an understanding of what you do and then figure out how to get that around the golf course in the least amount of strokes. But you know, if Jim Furick went chasing Adam Scott's swing and and kind of did that, I don't know that we would know who Jim Furick is. Yeah, so I I I always kind of use that as the reference point of hey, I don't really care what the swing looks like, and I don't care if it's pretty. There are no style points, there is no Russian judge sitting on every T box giving you a score zero to ten on prettiness of your like pretty swings don't always work out the best, right? And I think a lot of people when they look at Tiger Swing over the over the iterations of it, you know, a lot of people like, oh, this was the best one. This was the best one. The best one was when he won the most. Like that that's that's how this works. This is a performance environment. This is not like a a performance or ballet. This is literally what gets the job done. And it's it's not just swinging the golf club, it's chipping and pitching the golf ball, it's putting the golf ball, it's managing yourself through a round of golf. So I just thought that that was an interesting point. I I thought I was gonna be able to pull that up really quick because I just kind of had that, I had that set aside I was gonna use, but I just thought it was a good time to kind of bring that up when we get into this conversation about you know, am I trying to make things more perfect or am I trying to maximize the things I already do? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:09

Well, have some uh barbecue sliders for us, have some cookies. Um enjoy the week. I'll be praying for you for some good weather.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:19

It looks like it's gonna be great. That's fantastic. Um looks like it's gonna be really good. It looks like it's gonna be like not so hot that you know this guy's not built for the heat and for the sun. So it looks like I'm gonna get a little uh reprieve from that. Uh but yeah, the weather looks good. So I'm uh I'm excited. And I just I I love it, man, because it's the kickoff, right? Like for me, you know, nothing's really the I was surprised this morning when I was leaving, actually, because the grass was a lot greener than it normally is this time of year. Um but you know, coming from Michigan down to Augusta, you know, it's kind of like you come from the winter to the spring and the flowers are in bloom and the grass is green, and and it just it very much feels like the kickoff to the golf season. And as a golfer, even as much as I begrudge that from time to time, as a golfer, it it's just kind of nice to feel like it's the kickoff to the golf season.

Closing Notes And Where To Connect

SPEAKER_01 1:16:13

Yeah, it is. Well, enjoy the week next week. I look forward to that pod and hearing some cool stories of what you're doing and what you've seen. And um for those who celebrate, happy Easter. And um, Michael, send us out.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:32

Yeah, I think uh that's a good point. Happy Easter to everybody. Uh, it's a great time of year. Spend some time with your family. Uh, if you're a golfing family, even better. I I know there's a couple people that I work with that their families go and do kind of a golf trip for Easter and spend some time together. So I think that's super cool and definitely a cool kickoff to the year. So uh yeah, I think that was a great episode. Thank you again to Mike Marsenek for giving us a little bit of uh guidance in terms of what we're gonna talk about this week. And uh yeah, we'll continue to definitely keep our eyes on the whole Tiger Woods situation because it may be a little bit uh far gone, but I still have hope that you know Tiger kind of rights the ship and uh gets back to being a dominant force in golf, maybe not necessarily on the PGA tour, but I think it'd be great to see him on the senior tour. I think it'd be great to just have him in the game because I think the game of golf is way better with Tiger than without it. So uh hoping that Tiger gets the help he needs, finds some peace, and uh can kind of get things going in the right direction for him. So definitely hoping for that. And we will keep our eyes on that as well. So once again, if you are unaware and you're listening to this podcast, you can also view this podcast on our YouTube channel. And as I mentioned earlier, we have a lot of content there in addition to the podcast. So if you are somebody that is not going to listen to our advice this week and want to work on your technique more so than maximize what you have, we have lots of uh videos up there for those people. So you can check that out, see what's going on, kind of learn a little bit more about the science of the golf swing by visiting the Measured Golf YouTube channel. If you're interested in reaching out to us, if you have a topic that you would like us to talk about or an idea, please reach out to us. You can find me on Instagram at theforceplate guy or at measured golf. And you can reach out to Chuck if you feel a little more comfortable with that or want to ask him what he does to have such wonderful hair. You can reach out to him at Hudlove423 on Instagram. And if you can't remember any of that, you can always go to our website at measuredgolf.com and get in contact with me about maybe doing some coaching or if you just want to send us an idea or some feedback. So thanks again for everybody tuning in. We really appreciate it. Be sure to download this podcast and subscribe so you never miss a new episode. And until next time, keep grinding.