Are You Playing The Golf Course Or Golf Swing

Your range swing isn’t disappearing on the first tee by accident. Pressure changes what you notice, where you aim, and how willing you are to commit and that’s why tournament golf feels like a different sport than your Saturday money game. Chuck and I get into the real levers that travel with you when it matters: a clear plan, a consistent routine, and the ability to stay external and target-focused instead of getting trapped in swing thoughts.

We swap a few golf life stories from Sea Island and Ocean Forest, then pull the thread on something every competitive golfer wrestles with: do you build strategy to avoid trouble, or do you map the hole around where you want the ball to be? We argue for the second, because fear-based planning quietly loads your brain with “don’t miss here” signals. We also talk about why golfers love certain courses mainly because they score there, how bad conditions force better practice, and why travel days can make you feel worse than you actually are.

From qualifiers to club events, we break down practical performance tools: warming up as “observe and report,” using alignment sticks like a serious player, and leaning on a pre-shot routine as your anchor when nerves spike. We even unpack the idea that nervous and excited can feel the same and how changing the label can change the round.

If you like deep, honest conversations about course management, the mental game of golf, tournament preparation, and playing better under pressure, subscribe, share this with a golf buddy, and leave a review. What’s the one moment you start overthinking and how do you want to handle it next time?

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Transcript

Welcome Back And Pete Recap

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Measured Golf Podcast, where you, the listeners, sit down and join Chuck and I as we discuss all things golf. And this week we're a little more back to normal. It is Chuck and I once again. Chuck was very, very gracious earlier this week and let me go solo with an absolute hero of mine, Mr. Pete Cowan. So we had a special episode drop, uh, I believe it was Tuesday of this week, uh, with just me sitting down with Pete and getting to talk about golf and telling some cool stories. And this is something that I've I've chased for quite a while. So it was super fun to uh to get to spend some time with him. I always cherished the time and very kind of him to do the podcast. And Chuck is once again being very gracious and interrupting his vacation to do this podcast episode. So, Chuck, how are you? Where are you, and what's going on?

SPEAKER_00 0:59

You could tell that it wasn't um the conversation between you two wasn't just a uh acquaintance. That's the word I'm looking for. Like that there was a lot of history there, and um I think you texted me that it was going live, and I was hitting the refresh button on my walk post-workout trying to listen to it, and it was fantastic. Um I have not heard some of those stories. I didn't know some of that. I mean, I knew plenty about Pete from you, but it was still great to hear uh a lot of what he had to say, and um I I think there could have been two or three more episodes, so I hope he comes back. Um I know you've gotten a lot of interest from other parties now as well that are wanting to jump on and talk to the great Michael Dutro.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Yeah, I mean, I I don't know how much they want to talk to me and how much you know they want to get some exposure because the it's the podcast is doing very well. So thank you to everybody who's listening and and downloading. It's the numbers are crazy, it's really growing. So we're we're excited about that. We feel like we're um providing content that people are interested in, people want to hear, and hopefully it's helping people play some better golf. But to kind of cap the Pete Cowan podcast episode, the only thing that bums me out is I didn't get to tell this. Uh I I was like trying to get to it, and and we kept going different directions, and I never did. But when I saw Pete this past year at Augusta, and I've told you this before, you know, it felt different. Like walked up to Pete, Pete knew my name. I was just blown away. And and like you said, we we have spent time. Yeah, for sure. And and I've been chasing Pete around now for years, and I'll always any golf tournament I'm at, um, I always try to find Pete, see where he's at. And he's you know, it's he's been a lot more involved with a lot of guys on live. So unless it's at a major, you I'm generally not crossing paths with him. Um, but when I saw him at Augusta this past year, walked up, he knew my name, which really that was the feather in my cap. Uh, but then he called me something, and I think I've told you this, but I I didn't know what it was, but he kept calling me an Anorak. And I told you that I wrote that down in my little book that I carry with me at Augusta to look up later. And when I looked it up, it's like a waterproof jacket that people wear in the Adirondacks. And I was like, that's that's not that's not what he's calling me. Like, I'm I'm missing something. And I went to like BritishSwang.com or something like that and found out that basically it's somebody who studies a generally considered kind of boring topic at great length and is basically a nerd. And for Pete Cowan to call me a nerd, man, like that, I love it. Like that's that's one nerd calling another. Like it, that's you're in the club, you uh you're being called something, and on the spiral code, uh Jonathan Craddock, who's done a lot of that content for them, uh he he references like anarchs a lot, and like it's a term of endearment. So uh I'm I might be in with Pete. It it seems like I am, and I'm super happy about that. And there's few people, if any people that I respect as much as I respect Pete. So it was really, really cool for me just to get sit down and and man, I I'm appreciative of you. And you reached out to me and said how great you thought it was, and a lot of people have as well. But man, I was nervous. I was so nervous not to mess that one up. But uh, we got through it, so it was good.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

It didn't it didn't come off that you were nervous. Um his Anorak is your equal to your degenerate, so it's um very cool that you both share uh a term that would act aptly describe the uh that type of person. Um for any basketball fans out there, it's like Roy Williams at Carolina calling one of his stars a tough little nut. That was always a uh term of endearment.

Sea Island Golf Mecca Stories

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Um but to answer your question, I am in uh St. Simon's, Georgia at the Sea Island Resort. Um, Chuck's playing public golf again, watch out. No, not today. Today uh we were over at um Ocean Forest. Um and they host the uh are you familiar with the Jones Cup? Are you familiar with that? Not the Jones Cup that the PGM programs do, is it? No. Um this is uh this is like your it's one of the big, big amateur, like uh junior amateur tournaments. So nice like college age and below, and they they do um a phenomenal job with it and they display that history well. Um they've got this uh big board up right when you walk through the pro shop, and it is their past champions of the Judges Cup. They're also hosting the uh Georgia State AM this year. I gotta give a shout out to the Georgia State Golf Association, they do a phenomenal job of getting these courses for their AMS and mid-AMS. Um the state of Tennessee is not always as um well catered as the Georgia State Association is, and it's sometimes a struggle. Um but uh this board is the who's who of golf. I mean, the past champions are uh your boy uh P. Reed won it in like 09, and then there's Justin Thomas, and there's um Ludwig Ogerg, and there's uh Raiden Thornbury. I mean, it's you know one of those tournaments that if you won, you probably went on to do some big things. And um they also held the 01 Walker Cup, I believe. Um very difficult off to it is the tightest golf course I've ever played, and not like where you can go hit your ball again from the tree line. It's like, oh, you hit it off the fairway and off the rough, uh, that ball's gone. Um but very cool course. And uh I love um if you haven't been to Sea Island to play the plantation and the seaside course where they host the RSM. Uh I have an affinity for the plantation course. Um I think most people love the seaside the best, but I have a an affinity for plantation. But it's been a it's been a fun couple of days. I'm headed home tomorrow. My family's staying the rest of the week. But it's been a good little respite.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Yeah, no, that's that's awesome. Sea Island is is definitely I'm aware of it. Um I know it exists. Uh, and a couple of my clients, they vacation down there a couple of times a year. They just absolutely love it. It's just for whatever reason, one of those places I have yet to be at. Uh, and it it is. It's I was telling Buffy because she asked me at dinner, she's like, where's Chuck at? And I told her you were at Sea Island, and and she uh she's like, I don't, I don't know where that is. And I was talking to her and I I described it as a golf mecca because it kind of is down there. Um, I think a lot of a lot of people who like to play golf or into golf, interested in golf, uh, Sea Island, you know, kind of tends to be a little bit of a hotbed for them.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

You've got that um the Sea Island Performance Institute. Um there's a ton of great coaches down there. Yeah, uh Justin Parsons, uh Phil Kenyon. Uh they're all out of here, and there's several people below those guys. Um Chan, uh I'm blanking on Chan's last name.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Um by the way, it is late tonight. This is the latest we have ever done a podcast episode, and Chuck and I both have uh been out gallivanting today. And uh so this one could get fun. So stick around because God knows where we're gonna go once we start getting a little more slap happy.

Resort Dining Rant And Simple Joys

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Well, it's it's my fault.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Um we uh so my rant on public golf last week, uh I'm about to rant on resort dining. Um my mom and sister showed up to the main lodge to they don't take reservations like outside of five and six o'clock, which is weird. So they showed up at 5 30, 6 o'clock, and we did not sit down at dinner until 8 30. Um where is the local Waffle House when you I know, I know your favorite the Waffle House. We my dad was sitting at the end of the table about to fall asleep saying Chick-fil-A sounds really good right now.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Um so it was uh Jimmy's a Chick-fil-A guy, I'm a Waffle House guy. Like you know, we're just simple guys.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Yeah, yeah, so that was frustrating that they uh because we went to see they if you haven't been to Sea Island, they they have the big um the lodge, so there's several different spots, but there's a place called the lodge, and it has the massive um massive putting green in the back, and you're kind of overlooking the water, and they from seven to eight, they bring out the guy doing bagpipes, and so we went kind of to see all that and thinking that we'd get in a lot earlier, but we did not.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

So well, we'll blame you for this one. It's not the end of the world. Uh we both are going to soldier through uh and try to come up with something interesting, but you know, it's it's just weird, you know. We we were at Cyprus, which was um in a lot of ways the trip of trips, um, and then having Pete Cowan on the podcast, it's like where do where do we go from here? You know, it's it's pretty tough.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Yeah, we should just season's over, podcasts over, we we hit the two mechas, we're done.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Well, if I would have got that chip to fall on 16 uh at Cyprus, because I birdied 15, almost birdied 16. Um, I told you, like, if you play those two holes at two under, the only thing left to do is just walk into the ocean and keep walking. Because like it doesn't it doesn't get any higher in life than that. And that's kind of kind of where I feel like I'm at right now, just walking in the ocean because I I don't know where to go from here.

Cypress 16 And Weather Philosophy

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Uh what's not to recap Cypress again, we've done plenty of that, but that 16th hole. Um you made the point that four on that hole at times is probably a very good score for the for the length that it is, with it being basically like a 220 carry. Um so if there's any wind, uh four on that hole becomes uh very, very sought after. And there was um I can't remember if I asked the caddy or if I asked the member right before we hit uh like is there a drop zone? And that's when he told the story that this is where kind of their club championships are one and lost. You could have a seven shot lead going that hole, and then you could come out with a six or a seven because there is no drop zone if you go for the green, it's basically a Retey.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

I was looking at one of the videos. Uh, it's the video where I'm walking around the left side of 16, where that cypress tree is that they say the logo is based off of. You've got the ocean on the other side of that little peninsula where uh all those sea lions were over there barking. And the thing I was thinking about is your caddy better have a really good number for you if you're gonna try to play to the left in wind, because it would be easy to hit it into the water on the other side as well. Like it's not I was looking at that video, I'm like, man, it it feels like there's a lot of space over there. But really, if the wind is blowing right to left, which it probably would be if I had to guess, I I just think that that even that layup is tricky. I don't think it's just uh okay, I just hit something over here to the left and then try to hit something in the green and make four. Uh, but I I think that yeah, I mean that we just got so lucky that we caught it. And it's funny, man. Like this, I don't know if I'm the good luck charm or what, but I've spent, I think, a total of 10 or 11 days in Scotland. It's never rained once. Not once. We go to uh Cyprus, perfect weather. Everywhere that I go to play golf, uh, we get these Chamber of Commerce days. So I don't know if I'm actually a member of the Chamber of Commerce and just don't know it or what's going on. But if you want to play golf in great weather, invite me because it seems that every time I go and play, like it was honestly, and and I got just beat up for this. Like everybody made fun of me the whole trip for saying this. I wanted to play Carnoosty in some bad weather. Like I wanted to get the full Car Nasty experience. And look, I I get it. Like, hey, it's gonna be rough and tough, and you're gonna shoot a million, and you're gonna, you know, be a drowned rat by the time you get back to the clubhouse. But that's that's part of the fun of playing that type of golf because that's what we grew up watching. You know, I I didn't grow up watching Carnoosty be sunny and beautiful and perfect weather. Like, I I wanted a little bit of that, and unfortunately we didn't get it. But hopefully, next time when we go back, I I would like to see that place in some weather just to get the full experience.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

Maybe that's what makes our podcast so good is that we're opposites because I would be you have a very nice rain suit that you just don't wear. If we went over to Carnoosey and I had to play in 30 mile an hour wind and driving rain, I would not be happy. Really? I would I think that's what gets me from going over there uh or getting super excited about going, is that I would go and the weather would be so bad. Um I think that is in the back of my mind is my biggest detractor. And I was um you were excited for the West Coast because you were like, I can't contain this for another two months.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

I was excited because it didn't give me time to think about what if we get bad weather, what if we yeah, uh so but I think I think there's something to that, and it's like I remember playing high school golf, I remember playing some college golf, I remember playing some professional golf, and it's just there's something about being out there and it just sucks. And it's like you you eventually just kind of let your guard down a little bit and you embrace the suck. You know, it's it's kind of like the Marines, uh, it's kind of like the army, it's it's kind of like going through special op training. You just eventually la start laughing and and just like what's what's gonna happen now, and that's so much fun because yeah, it's it's awesome to tell those stories, but it's like I'm jealous, you know. Parker, uh super cool thing that ended up happening. Uh Parker, unfortunately, was out in California doing a photo shoot and was supposed to play Cyprus. And unfortunately, the member uh that was hosting him it it fell apart last minute. And Parker had reached out to me and asked if if if there was anybody I knew or what I could do. So I put him in contact with super fan of the show, Mr. Ken Noonan. Uh, and Ken and Parker got to go out and play Monterey Peninsula Country Club together. They couldn't they couldn't pull Cypress off again, but uh went out there, played uh Monterey Peninsula Country Club, the shores, and they got win like we did again. Um there's like a video of Parker like 155 out, I think it is, and it's like a knockdown six iron. And it's like that's that's the stories that are cool, is like, you know, hey man, you should have seen this three iron that I hit from like 140 out, and like you know, it's I mean it's just that kind of craziness. I could handle that. I think it's the rain.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Maybe I've just played as you have too. You I think one of your wins as a junior was in the complete muck and rainstorm, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:28

Did I get that right?

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Yeah, um, maybe I've just played too many rounds and I'm I'm just tired of playing in the rain. I I remember vividly being in this qualifier, it is just a monsoon. And I had my visor on and it's uh you know soaked, so you lean down, it's just like a hat, the water's just pouring off, and I take the visor off. Well, now my hair is just everywhere, and it's so it's still streaming down my face. It just was we uh we gotta get you a waterproof visor. That's something because I couldn't even stand over a putt without just the water all in my face.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

That's when we get a cashmere Keith and flip it around, baby.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

I tried, but the the hair was just like folded over.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Yeah, it's a lot of hair.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

I mean, I think so. I'm telling you, it was so like it was like I jumped in a pool, so it was soaking wet.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Yeah, that sucks. I mean, there there is a certain level that you get to in the elements to where it's just like, what are we doing here? Like that's there is a breaking point for sure. Um, but I I do think when you're playing golf courses, it's like Scott, like just when you tune into an open championship, you you you want to see mayhem, you want to see Tiger shooting 80. Like you you wanna like that's part of the story. So I I'm not saying I want to do that every time I'm there by any means, but I'd like to do it once, get the stories, and and kind of be like, okay, like now I I can tell this. Um, but I I will I'm with you. I've played enough rounds in the rain, cold, like all that stuff to where I am very appreciative of today days like today where it's 75 and sunny and beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Yeah, here is a great example. Um I came down one of the last times I was in Sea Island, I came down to play in an event with Keith. And uh the day before the event, he takes us over to Ocean Forest. Well, Sea Island temperatures in the fall and and kind of early winter, you can get some days that really fluctuate. Like the actual tournament days were good, but the day before the tournament, I think the high was 45 degrees, and the wind was blowing 30. To the point that we're and so he took us to Ocean Forest um the day before the event. And we le we got off that golf course. I said, I'll never come back here. Like this is the worst experience. And uh played it today, and it was much better. It's still the tightest golf course I've ever played, but um much much better to play it in the 80s and not that much wind. And uh so the weather can can be quite impactful. I remember standing on a T and he had us playing like his T's way back, and there was this par five, a hard, like a dumb par five, so hard. And there's this force carry and the wind is 30 into us. I said, Keith, I I can't carry this. I can't I said I'm just gonna hit it in the trees left and I hope it finds ground because I can't carry this. Uh he barely carried it and he's long. Um So yeah, the weather can can really Change your thoughts on a golf course or where you're at.

Why We Love Courses We Score On

SPEAKER_01 22:04

I mean, we were talking about that a little bit too. It's yeah, the weather definitely can change your thoughts, but I generally think people like and dislike golf courses based off what they shoot in general. Like it's it's so like look, I I am by no means a a golf course architecture guy. Um you can explain things to me until you're blue in the face and I'll listen because I know nothing. Um but I just think most people in general, right? If they have a they have a good round, maybe they make a couple birdies, what maybe they make some money off their buddies, whatever the case may be. It's I think a lot of people tend to pick golf courses based off of how they play. And like there's so many people, it's actually funny. Um somebody they shall remain nameless. I'm not trying to call anybody out or or start a controversy here, but somebody had reached out to me that I I work with online, and they were like, hey man, uh are you is it the honors down in Chattanooga? Is that the place you keep referencing? And I'm like, Yeah. And he's like, Oh man, I played that a couple years ago. And I was like, Oh, really? I was like, that's that's awesome, man. I think it's great. You know, I I love the golf course, I love the facility, staff's amazing. I said, you know, a lot of good things there. And he's like, Yeah, I just didn't like it. And I'm like, hmm? And he's like, Yeah, I just didn't like it. And I'm like, do tell me shot a hundred. Yeah, right. And and basically he's like, Yeah, you know, I don't know, I just I didn't play well. And I'm I'm like, oh, that's that's why I didn't like it. It's but right, but at the same time, like there's there's a muni here where I live. And I when I say muni, I mean the thing I love the most about this place is I I'm a walker, and it's a dollar a hole for me when I walk this trail. Right, it's a dollar a hole. There's probably, and I don't hit it that far, like I hit it 280, 285 off the T, but there's probably three or four par fours I can get at with the driver. Um it's it's not the best course design. I'm sure I'm I'm sure somebody that understands that stuff would pick it apart pretty good. But you know, it's just a fun little golf course that's kind of out in the sticks. Uh, it's along uh a river. It's it's kind of a fun little track, and and I adore it. But the reason I adore it is because I can go out there and shoot 66, 67 um pretty regularly. And it's it's just one of those golf courses you can get after. There's one hole you that's really bad, it's terrible design, uh, and the the trees are so overgrown. There's you literally have to hit a pitching wedge off a T on a par four, uh, because there's just nowhere else to go with it. But uh other than that hole, man, like you get through that one and and you just rock and roll uh and do your thing. But I just think people typically pick golf courses based off of the experience they have there. I I don't think many of us are really taking in the architecture or taking in the services provided or any of that stuff. That's what I think.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Yeah, I think you're probably right to an extent. I mean, I would push back slightly only because I had an experience I was playing um last fall, I got to go play Maidstone. I think you and I talked about this. Yeah. You're asking me about it. And I said and I played well there. And I was like It's fine. I like it's it's cool.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

You haven't been super high on Maidstone.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Yeah. But I would go um like the next day or two days later, we played Garden City. And it kind of fell apart in the back. Loved Garden City, like I was upset that I did not play better because I loved it so much. So I think there's that's usually what it is for me, is I will be upset if I didn't play well because I enjoyed the golf course so much. Um first time I played the creek, uh I was up at three o'clock in the morning getting a flight to New York, and we played it that afternoon. And um I didn't particularly play that well, but loved the golf course and was upset that I didn't play better because of how cool the golf course was.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Um

Travel Days And Performance Drop

SPEAKER_01 26:40

That does suck when you're out there and and it's just you know, I I mean we've talked about this before, but you know, any anytime you try to play and travel the same day, and when I say travel, like drive more than an hour, hour and a half, like anytime you do that and then try to get out of the car and play or get off the plane and play, it's so tough. Like the body just doesn't like it.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

I wasn't um I would have said that until I met you, I would have said that's just an excuse. Um, but after meeting you and you talking me through it, I really do think that is a real thing. And um it's made me think about travel. It's made me think about I think you you said it to me that your tour guys, you will not listen to them if they say they hit it poorly on a travel day of a practice round. Or you you even said you won't even let them go to a practice round, or if they do, they aren't allowed to talk about how they hit it. Something like that.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Yeah, I mean, generally, first blush of a golf course for those guys, you know, they're not playing for a score or anything. Uh, so it's not like they they text me or call me and they're like, oh my god, I shot a million. They like I don't get that like I would from most of the people I teach, uh, which I do get that from time to time. But you know, if if they're like, hey, you know, I I the ball flight's kind of this, or I'm doing like something's off, and it's I know like I can see their travel, their travel itinerary. If I see that they were traveling that day, I'm I'm a lot less likely to react to it. Uh if I get the same message the next day, then okay, yeah, you know, there's probably something we gotta look at, something we gotta something we gotta deal with. But for the most part, you know, travel is just really hard on the body, and especially as you age. Um, you know, it used to not be a big deal for me, and and look, this is all anecdotal, but it used to not be a big deal for me to like fly in. Like I remember going over to the 150th um open and I landed Monday morning. Uh, I had to work that day, landed Monday morning, went straight out to work, um, like worked all day long, went back like and just repeated, rinsed and repeated uh every day. And then like now, dude, coming back from California has just kicked my butt. Um, it's just it's just funny how, especially it seems like for me in particular, and I know a lot of people I talk to, anytime those mattresses are going to be uh adult oasis, whatever it was called, uptown oasis. That probably didn't help. Um, but no, I think anytime, and I don't know if there's any science behind this, and if you're listening to this and you know something about this, please share it with us. But it sounds to me like flying west is harder uh on somebody than flying east. That that's kind of what I've generally learned and been told. Um, is is it's you know fun going to California because you gain time, but man, when you come back and you lose that time, it just seems to really to beat you up pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

I was I was pretty zapped. I know you were zapped um right after that. And and I didn't think it would affect me like it did.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Uh it's just it's stressful, you know, like it's just you know, we're we're not living the life of luxury here. We're not flying, well, you get to fly private of a fair amount, but this guy is flying commercial exclusively, uh, and generally not flying well commercially either, like generally in the in the back of the bus. But you know, it's just stressful getting to the airport, getting to your gate. Oh, your gate's been changed, going to the next gate, dealing with people. It's just it's it's kind of this high stress-inducing environment, and then to like try to be calm and collected and play your best golf. I mean, that it's just it's tough to make that shift, I think.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Yeah. Um, I'm gonna use myself as the guinea pig. I want to I want you to pontificate on a couple things. Um pontificate. Um Baylor education. High school, not college. Uh go big red.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Um I would say the education at Baylor High School is probably better than the the college baylor if I had to guess. Certainly comparable.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Um I've got um and and this could be anybody.

Qualifying Prep With Positive Targets

SPEAKER_00 31:29

I'm just using myself as a guinea pig. We've hit um tournament like qualifying season. So you've got your US Open stuff, you've got your state AM stuff, you've got your um mid-AM stuff. Yeah, mid-AM stuff. All that stuff's happening. Um certainly earlier now that they have given the uh exemption to the state AM champion to the US AM. So I think it was just a couple years ago. At least in Tennessee, our AM stuff didn't happen until July or August, and now it's like you're after Memorial Day, it's like qualify and then you play two weeks later. Um so that's happening earlier. Um and I've got a state AM qualifier, I've got a four-ball, state four-ball coming up. Um you said something to me. We were uh we were looking at the qualifying site that I have played at before, I've qualified through it before. And I was just confirming with you some lines or some thoughts. And you said a pretty profound statement that if I can remember correctly, I think I said something like, well, there, there, and you're you listened and you d you did a good job listening to me, and then you said you have got like we're not mapping this golf course to stay away from the bad We're mapping this golf course to here's where we want to be and here's where we're gonna hit the shot. And I thought that was it's not uh rocket science by any means, but it was pretty profound that you were like why are you worried about if you hit it over here, hit it over there? We're like our goal.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

It was like the first hole.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

That's a goofy first hole.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

And there's a backyard in play, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

And is that it's like four steps off the green, is out of bounds, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

Um and you were really stressed out about that. And and I I mean it's more than four steps, but it's maybe five and a half steps. It I I get that there there is there there's always danger lurking around the corner, but it if you're picking a good target and make a good swing on it from a decent position, like why would you ever even think about that? Yeah, I think that I've I've heard Scott Fawcett talk about this a bit. Uh I've heard a couple mindset performance people or mental performance people talk about this. It's like the more the more of that that you kind of let enter your thought process, it's like there now. It's it's like this ghost kind of bouncing around your brain, and and you're you you kind of know it's there, but you're not worried about it, but it could pop out and scare you a little bit. It's I just think you really want to to be sending as strong of a signal as you can to your brain of like, hey, this is where I want the ball. And it kind of goes back to I think we've talked about it before on here, but you know, you crumple up a piece of paper and you don't even look and you just shoot it at the at the wastebasket and it goes in. It's like, oh, that was pretty cool. And then you try to do it again, and like you can't can't do it again. It's it's there's something about the more clear you can be with your intention, the more likely that your nervous system, your training, your practice, all these things kind of kick in to assist. And I think, you know, uh look, I I think you need to be aware that, like, hey, I got out of bounds right of this thing. Um, don't want to be anywhere near there. But at the same time, like building that into your plan is a horrendous idea.

SPEAKER_00 35:56

Like, yeah, I think that's what you said. We're not building this into the plan.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Yeah, yeah. Like the plan is we're gonna hit the green in regulation, and hopefully, you know, we've picked a good target when we hit the green in regulation, and you know, we're 20 feet or less to the pen and and have a chance to maybe roll one in and make birdie and move on. But you know, him hawing around about well, there's an out of bounds, there's a this, there's a that, you know, I just think that that does a lot of a lot of I don't think it does anything particularly, but I think it introduces some bad things that could happen. So I want you locked in on a good target. I want you focused. And like we talked about, if if you hit it out of bounds, it's not because of poor course management, that's because you made a bad swing. And once again, like as a human being, unfortunately, you're gonna make a bad swing every now and then. And it's I just hear all these people, and I know I've said this before on here, but I hear all these people that hit one in a water hazard, they hit one out of bounds, or whatever the case may be, and then you know, a spectator, their parent, whoever's like, oh, they have no course management. No, they just didn't execute the shot. Like, there's a difference between course management and executing the shot. And I think a lot of people muddy those waters a bit.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

Yeah, that I um I think the conversation started with because it's a whole it's a part five with this goofy dog leg, goofy out of bounds, and I think I said, Well, are we gonna do we need to lay it up? And you were like, Well, why are you laying it up?

SPEAKER_02 37:38

And out of bounds.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

I said there's an out of bounds, and you were like okay, well, that's not part of the that's not part of the decision making here. Like, can you can you get there easily? Yeah, you can get there easily.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

Um yeah, can you get there? I think there's maybe a bunker, if I remember correctly, is there a bunker kind of protects a green short? There's just this big kind of drop-off short. Yeah, I mean it it's you know it goes back to the conversation that we've probably beat to death talking about 17 um at the honors. And it's like, you know, if you hit your best best shot and it barely gets to the front edge of that green, you know, that's probably a conversation worth having when it comes to laying up. If if you've got, you know, 200 into that thing or 210 into that thing, and you've got three or four different clubs that you could easily cover that distance with, well, okay, then I think that that's a whole other conversation. But for me, at 220 with clubs I don't know, it's like I I have no idea how far this this rescue or this you know lofted wood is gonna go. And like so for me, it was just kind of a no contest. But yeah, I mean, I think if you can comfortably get there and and you feel like, you know, hey, I can put I can kind of leave this in a good place if I miss and feel like I can still make four, then yeah, I think you're crazy not to go for it. But once again, it's you know, you need to have a green light situation there to where it's like, okay, like the math maths here, and I'm gonna, no matter where I hit this club, it's A, gonna cover the trouble area, B, it's not gonna be out of bounds, and C, like, I'm still gonna have a better than a coin flip scenario to where I can still get this up and down for Birdie.

Bad Lies Practice And Commitment

SPEAKER_00 39:33

And then on some of these places that we're playing, they're not the best condition. Um we've talked about I played the practice round up there and how terrible a shape it's in. I mean, it's it's gonna be a nightmare.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

What's the superintendent's name at the honors? Do you know uh Will. Yeah, Will Misenheimer. I'm sorry, Will what? Misenheimer. Will misenheimer, we gotta send him some flowers because he has ruined Chuck for every other golf course because uh Will has done a phenomenal job at the honors. That place is pure wall-to-wall, as is it sounds like Wade Hampton, where you also get to play. That's kind of the that's the joy of being a public golfer that I am, and is you should have seen some of the lines I drew today. It didn't make you cry. Uh just terrible. But that's that's where, you know, and and we've talked about this too, but that's where practice is king, and how you practice is king, and go find the bad spots, go put one in a divot, go, you know, put one on the ground to where there's no grass underneath it, and and just kind of start figuring out like how does this play? How do I need to hit this shot? Do I need a different technique for this? Um is there something I'm missing? But that's where you know you really have to kind of really lean into your talent and go, okay, like I know this lie sucks. Uh, I had one today to where the the guys I was playing with were pretty impressed with it. But I mean, it was bear, bear, bear. Like it was uh some grass, I'm sorry, some water had pulled and burnt, and there was like no grass, and it was like mud slash clay and rock hard because it's it's been dry the past couple days, so it's baked out. And the guys were like, You can take a drop, you can take a drop. I was like, no, I'm I'm just gonna play it. Like that's that's the the rules of golf, guys. We're gonna play this with the flies. And uh hit a pretty pretty sporty little shot off of it to about eight feet and made the putt. And I was pretty proud of that. But the the thing is, is like I'm standing over that shot, and I'm by no means like the greatest to ever do this stuff, but I'm standing over that shot, and I'm like, okay, well, it's bare, you know what what do we want to do here? And literally I came up with my plan, and I was like, Well, I'm gonna kind of blow it up. Um, and and because the the one thing that I didn't want to do here, because there's a bunker on the other side of the green. So I'm like, well, I don't want to blade this thing and get it into that bunker because the bunkers uh like you think you've seen bad bunkers. You go to this place I was at today, you see some bad bunkers.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

But did you take a your lease um your lowest bounce or your highest bounce wedge?

SPEAKER_01 42:25

I took my 54 and because my 54 has a little less bounce than my 60. Yeah, my 54 has a little less bounce than my 60. And the reason I did that was because I wanted to blow it up, but I wanted to blow it up with the face a little open.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

Yeah, because you're trying to get that leading edge more involved, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:48

Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to kind of I'm gonna scoop, dig, chunk this thing out of there. Uh, but I didn't want to have the the 58 in my hands and a ton of loft because then I was afraid I was just gonna leave it short. Um, so yeah, I mean it's but I didn't want to get it into that bunker long. So, you know, the plan is here is okay, if I blow it up too much and I leave it short, fine, whatever. Like I'm I'm prepared to make five from here. Like it's part four. I'm prepared to make five from here, but I'm not making six. And six doesn't really enter the equation the equation unless I get it into that bunker, and then God knows what's happening from there because the bunkers were in really poor shape. So I mean it's it's really, you know, committing, you know, that's that's all the rage right now. Talking, you see a lot of clips about players talking about this, coaches talking about this, but committing to your plan, hey, I'm gonna blow this thing up. I'm not I'm not gonna back out of it and like try to slow it down or like, no, I'm gonna hit this thing, I'm gonna blow it up. But then the second part to that is right before I hit that shot, I'm standing over it, kind of doing my routine and kind of your your final thoughts, right? Like, That you're thinking about before you execute the shot. I was like, you know, you practice, dude. Like, trust yourself. Like, you've done stuff like this before, so do it again. And it it's just that little bit of like, hey, you can do this right before you pull the trigger goes a long way too. So, you know, have a plan, execute your plan to the best of your ability. And if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. But if that, if that doesn't work out, then when next time you go to practice, like maybe try to recreate that lie, maybe try to recreate that situation and and and see if you can't teach yourself how to do it better in case you run across it again.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

Um that goes back to your saying um we've talked about committing to a shot. It it's not just the commitment to where we're aiming. It's the commitment to okay, I picked my target. I've got a swing. Like that's the only place this ball will end up. And there isn't that you know the backing out. Uh I'm sure that I've done that quite a bit. Um where you get a little guided, and you're like, um, I kind of pulled it off, like yeah, I'm safe, but fairly well today.

Playing With Strangers And Overthinking

SPEAKER_01 45:25

And then we ran into a group, uh, and we ended up playing. So I we played so I took a client out, student out today, played the first eight holes in an hour.

unknown 45:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

Yeah, it was great, right? Nobody in front of us, me and him, and and we actually had a few extra shots, but we played like eight holes in like an hour, like just walking, not in a cart, it was great, weather was wonderful. And then we get to nine and we run into a group, and then on ten, we end up joining this Twosome. And it took us three hours to finish the round from there. So it turned out to be a full four-hour day, um, which wasn't the most enjoyable. These guys weren't very good, didn't really understand golf that well, kind of recreational players. Um, but when we were out there, you know, my my the funny thing that I kind of noticed in real time, and I was proud of myself for noticing it in real time because I was able to fix it. But I played like really nice the first eight holes. I think I was like maybe two under par. Uh, was kind of cruising around, kind of having my way with it, even though the greens were they I hate when this happens, but this golf course has run out of money, hence the bunkers being in really bad shape. But they've run out of money to the point where I don't think they've aerified the greens for like the past two years, but they're really bouncy, and these are like the smallest greens you've ever seen in your life. And I I'm I'm sure you've seen some small ones, these are smaller, and they're like trampolines because they're so springy. I don't know if you've ever played greens before that haven't been aerated, but man, they get like hard is one thing, like firm hard greens is one thing. These are like trampolines, so that was like kind of frustrating, but we we kind of figured it out and we started playing front numbers and having some success, and things were going fine, but I was really doing a nice job, the first eight, nine holes of like, hey, here's the lie, you know, and we were doing this together, which is why I was doing such a good job of it. But I was working with this player and like reading lies, and like, hey, is it above my feet? Is it below my feet? You know, what's is there grass around the ball? Is there no grass around? Kind of like what we did uh when we were in the short game area there at the honors. But I was really we were really working through that process. And once we had kind of made our decision and picked our club and figured everything out, I was really good at focusing on the target, committing to the target, and then executing the shot. And I hit it beautifully well. And then something happened when we started playing with this Tusome to where whether I was trying to impress them or whether I got a little bit nervous playing around people I don't know, whatever the case may be. But like I start getting a bit more internal with my thoughts, and I start thinking about my swing a little bit, and I start thinking, oh, am I am I doing this or am I doing that? And next thing you know, it's like, okay, well, now I'm struggling to make some pars and a couple bogies happen, and you know, this, that, and the other. And then it's like, well, wait a minute. And even even the the young man I was with said something to me. He's like, What happened? And I'm like, it's a good question. And I was like trying to think about it. I was like, I think I'm just thinking too much. And then I got back to, hey, let's let's just go back to what we've been doing. Though, like, let's forget these other two kind of guys that are with us. Let's just get back to what we were doing. And I've played really well, made a couple birdies coming down the stretch, uh, and and finished well. But it's it's really it's it's hard to not want to take control, you know. To quote Carrie Underwood, Jesus take the wheel. It's kind of how we want to play golf a little bit, right?

SPEAKER_00 49:14

Is is we want to the number one uh um wheel grabber. Yeah, number one real certainly the uh number one culprit of that.

SPEAKER_01 49:27

Yeah, like there the time there are so many times when we've played golf together, I want to punch you in the head. And it's like you will hit a great golf shot, and it's like close to the pen, close enough, you know, like it's fine, and you'll like turn around to me and you'll be like, is that good? Is that right? And it's like, dude, where's the ball? Like, great shot, well done. Like I just want to like, but for you, you're right. It's and and I think that you're very similar to a lot of people to play golf, to where it's we really not only want to see the result, but then also want to know that the process and the swing was perfect as well. Um and I could just honestly give two shits if a golf swing is perfect or not, and it's like, hey, and I've said this to you, and I said this to Ken, uh Ken Noonan, but if you look at Adam Scott's golf swing, the holy grail of golf swings, and you look at Jim Furick, the ugly duckling of golf swings, right? If you look at their careers side by side, they have the most similar careers you've ever seen. They both have a major, they both have won a bunch, like this roughly, I think 12 or 13 tournaments apiece. Uh, money-wise, it's it's kind of similar. Like they've had very similar careers. And it's like if I went to the driving range and I was there selling Adam Scott's golf swing, everybody would buy. Everybody, like I could I could charge whatever I wanted to charge. Everybody wants to buy that swing. But if I tried to sell Jim Furick's swing, nobody would buy it. Like I'd have to put it on the deepest discount ever just to get one person to try it and they would return it. But they both have accomplished basically the same thing. And it's like it doesn't matter what it looks like, it doesn't matter what. And we talked about this when we were on our trip, and you were like showing me a video of me hitting a shotter, and I'm like, I hate my swing, and you're like, Oh, you're like me. Like I I nobody likes their golf swing. It's nobody like Tiger Woods didn't like his golf swing. Tiger Woods, right? Yeah, guess what? Adam Scott has a coach on payroll because you know what? There's things he hates about his golf swing. And it's like we're so consumed in this. Did I make a perfect swing? Did I make a perfect swing? Who cares? Did you pull the shot off when it mattered? Like that's this is a game. Like that, and the name of the game isn't make perfect golf swings, it's get the ball close to the hole, like and and and get it in the hole, you know, at some point. And I just think so many people have lost sight of that. And this newest generation for sure, uh, you know, since COVID, it's all about who's got the prettiest swing, who's got the pretty who cares? Um like who can shoot low scores. So by the way, I think that's why the YouTubers have become more popular than the PGA tour players, because it's all about who's got this pretty swinger, who can make the most ball speed, or who can whatever happened to who can get it in the freaking hole in the lowest amount of strokes. That's what golf is, guys. I I hate to be the the old man get off my lawn, but that is still the game.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

So if we're sticking in the tournament world.

Turn Off Swing Thoughts In Competition

SPEAKER_00 52:45

And again, using myself as the guinea pig. For someone that practices a lot, works hard on their swing, trying to work through some things, knows very aware of what their issues are. Um I think sometimes that can be the detriment when you're under the gun of being aware. You're very aware of what your your detriment or your your issues, your flaws are in your swing. What do you do? What do you tell people that are in that you know one, two, three holes in and how do you get them to turn off the think tank and go into play mode and said before you're you're good with some feels, you're good with a thought. But how how do you get how do you get those guys your juniors, how do you get someone like myself that uh how do you get them into that? Alright. You you've put in the work, you've gotta turn it off and go play.

SPEAKER_01 54:01

I mean, realistically it's gotta happen. It's gotta happen, you know.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

Should you be on the should you be warming up on the range and like, hey, I'm turning the brain off.

SPEAKER_01 54:15

Yeah. You know, it it's it's so funny. Um I've seen players just have the absolute worst warm-ups and go out and play brilliant. Um I've seen the opposite too. I've seen people warm up great and and play just terrible like they've never hit a golf ball before in their life. Um but I I think without trying to minimize it too much, you're you're gonna, and this is where I think people fall short. You're going to have bad swings, you're going to have bad holes, you're gonna make some bogies more than likely. Like, depending, like, don't get me wrong, if you're a scratch player, you know, and it's an easy course, maybe maybe you don't make any bogeys that day, maybe you go bogey free. But I think going bogey free is one hell of an accomplishment. And I think it's I think it's definitely more important to try to go bogey free than to try to make six birdies. Right. Um, so realistically, you're gonna make a couple bogeys, you're gonna some things are gonna happen, you're gonna get into some tough spots, but I I just think that you in those moments have to remind yourself that you can do this. Uh, you've played golf before, and Jack Nicholas talked a lot about this, but you know, Jack says every single round he ever played, there were there were good shots, there were bad shots. There were both. The thing is, though, is like if you make a couple bad shots early in the round and you quit, or you try to take over, you try to like if you if look, in my opinion, if you quit trying to execute the plan you started the day with, you quit. Like non-quitting is hey, you know what? I had a plan, I stuck to the plan, I did everything I could. Like, that's somebody that I admire. Like, hey, I didn't let the plan get changed, I stuck to it, it just didn't go my way today. Okay, fine, great. Maybe we need to look at the plan afterwards, but trying to change the plan that we set out to execute midstream, that's a disaster. It's an absolute disaster. So you've got to realize that there's good and bad, and you just kind of have to make your peace with some of the bad ones and remind yourself that you can do this, you've done it before, you've practiced this. But to your point, when you get out there on the range, you know, I kind of like to, I always tell people go pulpart, observe and report, right? Like that's that's where I want you at. I don't want you out there trying to do anything in particular, like go out there and hit this shot. Like what like I always tell myself, once again, I'm not the best example, I'm not the best player in the world, but when I when I get out on the range, I kind of have my routine. I like to hit some like sand wedges, then I like to hit some like mid-irons. But after I've like made a couple full swings and like kind of checking with the body and see how it's feeling, and I've had some issues with my left hip here for the past couple years. So once I kind of realize like my left hip doesn't hurt, I'm like, oh, okay, cool. Like I'm warmed up, like I'm moving as well as I'm gonna move. All right, I got my eight iron in my hands, that's my target. Go through the process and pretend this is like an eight-iron at that flag, the first hole. What's it do? Right? And I line up and I hit it, and if it fades, it fades. If it draws, it draws. If it goes straight, I go straight. And then I do that again, and then I do that again. And now I'm like starting to make the shift from like I'm not trying to find it on the driving range. I'm not trying to recreate my swing on the driving range. I'm just going out there and whatever comes out of the cannon is what comes out of the cannon. But I can move the cannon around and I can aim the cannon differently if it's consistent. I'm just looking for what's going to be consistent today. Is it gonna is it is today my fade day? Is today my draw day? Whatever. But I can adjust the cannon when I get out on the golf course for how that can or how that cannon ball is coming out of the cannon. And that's where I think so many people go wrong is you know, one, they try to manipulate and force everything on the driving range and almost like try to cram for a test. And two, when they get out on the golf course, and this is my number one pet peeve, and this is what I got on this young man about today, is like the first couple holes were out there. Uh, the first hole, the ball is below his feet, the second hole, the ball is above his feet, the third hole, it's above his feet for his approach shot. And all three times he tells me he's gonna fade it. And I'm like, no, no, you're not. And he's like, well, no, no, no. We've been working on a fade. I want to hit the fade. I know we've been working on hitting a fade. I know you want to try to hit a fade while we're out here, but if this ball is above your feet, it's a draw. And like, we have to like once again check in with ourselves, try to be as neutral as we can, try to have a relatively straight ball that we can predict. And then once again, when we get out on the golf course, look, I get it. It might be advantageous if the pen's on the left to try to aim it at the middle of the green and draw it towards the flag. But if that ball is below your feet, you're probably going to cut the difference and realize it's going to fall right, and you're probably now trying to land it where you were trying to start it, should you have been drawing it, which you can't because the ball is below your feet. So it's really important that A, we know the plan, B, we're committed to the plan. And the biggest point of it all is C, which is I ain't gonna let this golf course or this situation change my plan. Because the minute I abandon my plan, I have no plan and I have zero chance of winning this war.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:18

I like um I like your thought there when you're warm once you kind of get the body loose, you're hitting some shots with some intent. I I seem to find that that when you put a little bit of pressure on yourself, warming up for something is a good spot to let's say you don't execute it all, kind of how it's in your mind that maybe that's a a minute to kind of think about okay, what have I been working on, and then go back into it. But um yeah, I think that's the best way of warming up, um being intentional once you get the body kind of moving. And I do I will ask, and as we're wrapping up, I would ask, um Let's say you you pull the Kevin Kisner. You because you're you're kind of like you saying you're you you can move the cannon around, you can do some things. I love the Kevin Kisner. Hey Kevin, are you gonna go to the range post-round at Augusta? Why would I go do that? Is what he responds with. I'm gonna go to the range, I'm gonna hit 20, push draw drivers or whatever, but tomorrow morning I'm gonna step up on the first E and I'm gonna push cut this thing into the first bunker. And I love that quote. And I think many of us, me included, say that at times of here's the shot that we're seeing. Here's what we're used to. Here's how we warm up, we're seeing it. You get to first, second, third hole. You're not seeing it. Is there a something you would any wisdom you'd impart on someone that says Hey Michael, I I did exactly what you're saying. I was on the range, I was intentional about it, I was seeing this, I get to the golf course and I don't see it. Or I don't see it early.

Alignment Fixes The First Tee Panic

SPEAKER_01 1:02:24

Yeah, I mean it's it's funny because I've got a player right now, we've worked a lot on this, and it's weird. They'll go out in a practice round and shoot 66-67 pretty easy. Not a not a lot of problems. They get in a tournament and they shoot like 74-75.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:53

Um more than the that kind of deviation that you're seeing tournament. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:59

Yeah. And it's funny that you bring this up because I'm I'm thinking of this player because it took us a long time to figure this out. And what I would say is that for him, it wasn't technique at all, and it wasn't like commitment, it wasn't didn't have the plan, it wasn't any of those things. His for whatever reason, when he when he gets in the heat of the battle, his alignment went to crap. And he really struggled with his alignments. And one thing that I have noticed over my years of spending time on on the golf course with people is being able to align yourself is huge. And I I think that that's a a skill that doesn't get practiced as much as it should. Like it drives me nuts, absolutely nuts. Like, you know, we've talked about this. I go practice uh at a public facility, and you see tons of people bashing balls, and there's a young man there that's there every day hitting balls, and you know, he's trying to get better at golf, but I've yet to ever see any kind of alignment stick down when he's bashing balls. And I don't see amateurs putting the alignment stick down when they're hitting balls. And it's like, you know, the problem with one is, and I don't know if if Kevin's ever realized this or not, that bunker is, I'm sorry, that T box on one is lined up directly at that bunker. So if you get up there and feel like you're lined up straight down the middle, you're lined up at that fairway bunker on the right, which he's referencing. So it's like there's there's little tricks. Um, and and a lot of times I think it's alignment. I think people really underestimate how important that is. Uh, I think it's one of those things to where every single shot you hit in practice, you should have an alignment stick down. Um, I had the alignment, I had an alignment. Look, we were playing golf today, we were on the golf course, and I was still throwing alignment sticks down with this player today. And it was funny, man. When we could get him lined up, you know what? He he hit really nice shots. But if I didn't have the alignment stick down, he struggled getting lined up. And it's it's one of those things that I think people really underestimate the value on. But the other thing I would say too is you know, you've seen it in practice, you see it in the warm-up, you go to the first T, you don't see it. It's different. Like the the minute there's constraints, the minute there is something right, something left, hey, I'm hitting the ball in front of people. There, there's like a lot of psych psychology there of what's kind of happening. And it's really, it takes a little bit of time to settle into a round. And that's that's where I would tell people is like. You might not see that that draw on one that you're going for. You might see that cut, but don't abandon hope. Don't abandon like once again, like you start thinking swing, we get internal, and nothing good is coming. Like we've got a hey, I I know I know how to hit this shot. I know I just hit this shot 10 minutes ago before I walked over here. Like, let's just keep trying to do the same thing. And and once again, like maybe, maybe that day it doesn't happen, but that's when we can debrief after the round. We can go, was there a pattern here? If there was a pattern here, okay, great. Like we want to change that pattern. Okay, well, now let's let's go back to the rock pile and and let's dig in on what we've been working on, or let's send a video to our coach or whatever the case is. But it you you gotta keep trying to execute that same thing. You can't just go, oh, well, now I need to do this with my swing and that like now we're playing the correction, we're playing golf swing on the golf on the golf course, and that is just a recipe for big numbers.

Tournament Reps And Routine Under Pressure

SPEAKER_00 1:07:02

Yeah, I would um I would challenge anybody that is listening that wants to get better, that hasn't played or doesn't play in very many tournaments. I would challenge them to go and play in as many things as you can. I don't care what it is. Even if it's something that you know you can't qualify for, go play in it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:25

Um I know You know why you play tournament golf, right? Yeah, so you can hit all the shots otherwise you would never hit.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:34

That's true. That's true. That's a good thing. Uh I know that's when things um when I first got into golf and didn't realize there was a difference between golf and tournament golf. And then I realized it, and I said, if I'm serious about getting better and serious about this being a consistent hobby for me, I have got to play in as much stuff as I can, no matter what it is. It didn't matter what it was. Um because it is a unique. I always find I can take something that okay, I realize that I don't do this well enough, or I don't do that well enough. And um, I would hope that if you get to play that you would get paired with a good player because it is um, I remember being younger and getting paired with um and and even now you get paired with some college guys, and um last year uh I got paired with two guys who are who are very good college players in the stadium, and it was very eye-opening to watch what they made look routine, and it was easy for me to go back and say, I don't make X, Y, or Z look as routine as they do, or um I remember playing with a guy years ago that everything he looked at looked like it was going in. He hit it off the face of the putter, and I thought, man, I don't putt like that. Like I don't putt where it looks like it's going in. And that that really kind of prompted me to you know come up.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:28

That's a great point that you bring up is like what you get to learn from others. Why like in general, like let's say, you know, not everybody's built up built for tournament golf, but you know, if if you're somebody at a public facility or what or even at a private facility, and there's a a previous club champion, or there's you know, a college kid, or some somebody that can play some golf, like play with people that are better than you because you can learn a lot watching somebody better than you. But here's here's what I kind of thought of when you were saying that, and I'm I'm so happy you brought that up. I play with a lot of random people, like that's very normal for me. And we were having dinner at Monterey Peninsula Country Club with uh Ken and Jennifer Noonan, and they brought it up, and Wayne brought it up when we played at the honors together. But the thing that kind of drives me crazy is that you may not be able to make hitting your driver like a Division I college player look routine. You may not be able to do that, you may not be able to yet putting like that person could putt, like you might not be able to do those things. But the comment that I get all the time is they're like, man, you do the exact same thing every time. You've mentioned it to me before, Wayne mentioned it, Jennifer and Kent. Like my routine is very consistent. And if you want to get good, or let me try that again. If you want to get better at golf and you want to have any chance when it comes to competitive golf, you better have a rock solid routine. Like that is the building block of everything. Because the thing is, is like, and I'll I'll share a little personal antidote here. Uh Pete Cowan calls it stage fright. And I I'm I used to be embarrassed to admit it, but I've talked about it so much that I don't get embarrassed anymore. I would get so nervous playing tournament golf when I was younger, so nervous. And I I mean, dude, I I would be in contention, I would be leading, I would do whatever, the nerves would hit. And man, I just it took me look, every now and then I got lucky, and that's what it was. I got lucky, and I like got through it and I would pull it out or whatever that or have a high finish. But more often than not, man, it would it would be the kryptonite, and I would lose that confidence and I would get nervous and I would hate to say it, I get mad when people say this, but it was true. But I would choke. And it took me forever. And I I talked to several different sports psychologists, I talked to a whole lot of people about this, and just nobody really gave me what I needed, and I kind of lucked into it, and I figured it out not that you know, probably five, six years ago, way too late, but I figured it out. The only way you can overcome that is you have to realize that your routine is your Superman cape. If you just are doing what you do all the time, you kind of get a little more comfortable. But if you're trying to like like if you're thinking about, oh my God, this is for this, or if I do this, that happens, or if we start kind of getting out of the present and getting ahead of ourselves, or worse yet, behind ourselves, if we start doing those things, like no chance. Like it the chances you succeed in those moments are very, very small. But when you are like, hey, I I can do this routine in my sleep, if you can just get into that auto mode to where you just are doing your routine, man, like you don't you don't got time to get out of your skis, you don't have time to go into the past and think about all the times you've come up short. Like you're just you're it locks you into the present. And I think that that's probably some of the best advice I've shared on this podcast is have a rock solid routine that you can do in your sleep because that is really the thing that you're gonna have to rely on when you get under some of that pressure on the golf course.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:57

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:57

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:59

Yeah, there was anything that's taken your mind away from the outcome is great. And my last thing I'll say on on the the watching and paying attention to the better players is that there was um a hole in a qualifier a couple years ago and it was a sucker pin. I knew it was a sucker pin. And uh it was a bit like playing your pins game where you're just trying to pay like oh goal number one to be on the left or the right hand side of this pen. And so I knew where I needed to be. I knew there wasn't any doubt that I was not gonna go for this pin. And um the shot I hit wasn't awful. It wasn't great. It was just in the middle of the road. And I watched these two other guys play I didn't know at the time, but they were playing pins, and these two other college golfers they picked a target, they committed, and they were, you know, the the play was 25 feet left of this thing. And um they very easily or made it look easy and and uh to hit this shot, and I thought that right there. There's something I can glean from this of um those guys were comfortable with it's 25 feet left, that's the shot. I've got the club, I'm not trying to do anything special. This is a very boring play. It needs to be boring. This is a hard hole making four, I've gained strokes. Um so yeah, I uh to to finish my point and to wrap us up, I would just say playing as much as you can. It has helped me get to where I am immensely of just being hard-headed of yeah, I'm gonna go early on, and I'm I still do it today. You're gonna make you gonna have some days that aren't very good, and you're gonna be, you know, all down the dumps, and you feel like you're embarrassed yourself and you've posted the score or whatever, but it's kind of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:30

Uh-oh. I think we have lost Chuck as he was talking about getting embarrassed uh with maybe having that day to where it doesn't go your way. Um, but it happens, and that is a big part of playing tournament golf and posting a score. But once again, it it's only a failure if you don't learn anything from it. And that's where I really do like tournament golf uh because it does give you the opportunity to measure your skills. He's back, but measure your skills against the others that you're competing against and figuring out where those gaps are and what you have to do to get better to compete. But yeah, I mean, I I was kind of wrapping up your thought there, Chuck, talking about, you know, you were saying you're gonna have those days down in the dumps. Um, and yeah, that's that's gonna happen. Golf is a very difficult game, but at the same time, um it's it's never a failure unless you don't learn from it. And

Using Data To Set Real Expectations

SPEAKER_01 1:17:31

the thing that I'm excited about for you, particularly since we're kind of using you as a guinea pig on this podcast episode, um, you know, I I think you've already learned a lot from clipped, but I think that really helps you, I think it's gonna give you a better barometer of how you actually performed in the tournaments and help you rationalize, like, oh, I actually didn't hit it that bad today. Like I hit it like I kind of normally do, I just didn't scored it, or or whatever the case may be. But that's where I think golf is really hard. And the problem, the real problem with golf is that it's cmated by one number, you know, 72 or or something relative to 72. Um, and and that just doesn't really do well, you know, over the course of four or five hours, maybe longer in a tournament round, um, that doesn't do it justice. Like, and the problem when you summate it down to one number is it's kind of like the indie 500. There's a winner and everybody else is a loser. Right? That second place does not matter. So by you having that data to fall back on and go, hey, I actually did did, you know, basically what I should have been expecting to do. It's like now you can reframe that a little bit and go, you know what, maybe my expectations were just a bit high for this thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:59

Yes. Um sorry, I love that my computer told me I had 15% battery left and then just died on me. Um, but uh I do think the clipped is going to be very useful to be able to go back and say, okay, here's where I've been trending. Did I fall within that trend line? And kind of what we've talked about before, when it is just summed up with one number, you have um, you know, maybe you had a hole where you could get away with a bit of a left miss, and that was the hole that you hit your left miss on. Or conversely, you couldn't get away with a left miss. That was the hole you hit your left miss on, and you make dub or triple, and so they excuse that that ending number a little bit, but you get the clip data back at the end, it's like, oh, I performed the exact same or nearly the exact same that I typically do in that category.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:57

Um, I think it'll be interesting too to to kind of look at, you know, we've talked about this, but anytime we get into performance, like tournament play, you know, if you if you manage everything to the to the nth degree, if you really cover your basis, if you recover well, if you have a good plan, like if you do everything you can do, we're gonna see roughly a 10% slip in performance. Like that's that's kind of a hard science kind of thing that that has been studied. So the the really cool thing is is with you now having that data and having these trend lines and having these benchmarks, it's like, oh man, I hit it so bad today. Like, just awful. I can't believe I hit my driver like and it's like, oh well, it's it's 10% below normal. And like, hey, like we got to figure out like we got to pick better targets off the T because you're not gonna be able to drive it up a gnat's ass every single tournament round.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:59

So and I um finishing my thought before my laptop died. Um if there's anybody that can relate to any other golfers listening to this that are trying to get better. I picked up the game late. I was the worst golfer you have ever seen when I started. Um had so many nicknames. Earthkiller was one of them that my friends gave me.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:26

Um human rain delay. That's that's that's a bad nickname.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:32

That's a bad one. Um uh, but it was through it was really through the tournaments and when when it mattered that I was able to kind of like the pen story with these guys on this sucker pin, I was able to to leave the tournament and say, okay, I don't do that well enough. How can I get better here or there or what whatever it was? But there was always something, multiple things usually I could take and say, Okay, I or on the flip side, okay, yeah, I I did that very well. Clearly, what I'm doing is working, but there was plenty that okay, I haven't spent enough time there, or what I'm doing is not working, I need to to get back. Maybe it's a technique thing. Um so I would encourage people, and and it is scary and it is raw, and you're out there in front of the world, and um you gotta battle some nerves.

Nervous Or Excited And Closing Notes

SPEAKER_00 1:22:35

I'll be battling nerves on a Monday morning. I know. I mean, I'm I'll be excited to go compete, but I'll I'll have the first degeners just like everybody else, and I gotta find a way to settle into the round. And um I'm still convinced, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:48

I I I've said this for a long time. I think we as human beings mislabel things a lot. And if if you can explain to me how nervous and excited feel different, I'd love to listen. Because I think you I think it's close. Uh like in terms of like wavelength and and reactions on the on the on the on the physiological side, I I think it's very similar. And like that's you know, you were asking me like, what do I say to players sometimes? You know, there's been times, Manda, where I I've seen a player that is exhibiting, you know, a lot of energy before we're getting ready to play. And you could call it nervous or you could do what I do and just walk up to and be like, man, aren't you excited to show everybody how hard you've been working? Aren't you excited to like get this thing going and go out here and get it done? Like, aren't you excited? And you know, sometimes, and I I had a you know, one of my college kids that you know that you've heard me talk about a lot, like that was a breakthrough thing for him, man, is is just changing what we call it from nervous to excited. And it's like, oh, I'm excited. Like nothing excited doesn't have a negative connotation. Nervous has a negative connotation, like, ooh, something bad's about to happen. And I I just wish that and look, you know, I I could be a bit pessimistic from time to time, especially when I was younger. But man, do I wish somebody would have been like, hey man, maybe you're just excited, maybe you're not nervous. Because I think honestly, I was excited. I think that's that was the thing, is I never learned how to regulate that excitement. And but then I would, you know, I saw some bad results, and I'm like, oh, I get nervous. I have stage fright. I have and you like whatever narrative you tell yourself typically is coming true. So, you know, I think, you know, some other really good advice is if if you're out there, man, and and you're feeling it, you know, then then just maybe try to trick yourself and be like, hey, I'm just excited to go out here and kick everybody's butt. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:51

Sorry, go ahead. No, you're good. Uh uh when you explain it that way that your your mind can't separate nervous and excited. I thought that was a really um impactful statement, and that helped me also reframe. Um in other sports, playing football and basketball growing up, you you there's the nervousness or or excitement. You get the same, you're getting the same jitters. But it's you it's more of a reaction sport, or you're you're able to kind of run around and and the brain turns off, I feel like, a lot easier than it does standing over a shot. Um standing golf, you can't just go run around and like do that to get your your uh nerves quieted. So it does help, I think it's helped me if I reframe that I'm excited, and here's why I'm excited, and this is that's why I have this feeling.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:04

Um, so I would encourage anyone to uh to go out and and reframe and um and like I always tell people too, like you know me, you've seen my my Starbucks order in the morning, it's it's impressive. Um but you know you're you're gonna have and this is maybe for the the crowd that's maybe more the midam crowd, right? But maybe a little less caffeine in the morning than usual. You're gonna have plenty of juice, you're gonna be awake.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:34

Like you don't you don't want to be hammering the Starbucks before you go out there, like you're gonna have enough juice. I'm I'm wondering if I need a little uh some kind of cocktail before I I play the next couple days um before I tee off. Yeah, I I I would like to get into um maybe next episode. I I think I'd really enjoy getting into some of what Pete Cowan was talking about. I really think your post that you had of his bunker conversation really aligns with um your buddy Parker Short Game Chef's philosophy, and I'd I think it'd be fun to dive into that. Um and uh we can't.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:19

Maybe we should just get Parker on.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:20

Maybe we can do like a three-way with Parker. I'm sure he'd be game to do that. Would be awesome to do that and talk through uh some different things, um, especially bunker technique and um some other philosophies on short game.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:40

I might just take the week off and let since I got to go solo with uh Pete, maybe let you go solo with Parker.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:47

No, no, you two are boys. Y'all need to be on here. But well, I I think it'll be interesting. Um I'd like to talk some Calvin, but I'm sure next week uh I've got like Three or four tournament rounds happening all next week that there'll be some unique things that we can dive into uh post those tournament rounds for the listeners and kind of put myself out there and uh get real with what went well, what didn't go well and I think it's great.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:23

I mean it's good on you. Uh you know, I've been there, I've done that, I honestly and I've talked to you a little bit about this. You know, for me for me it's just I don't practice and I don't play enough to put myself out there like that anymore. Um and and there's days where I miss it a lot, and then there's days where I don't miss it at all. But I I do agree with you. I think I think if you're serious about trying to like this whole like chasing scratch thing, okay, well, why don't you go play in a tournament and see how close to scratch you really are? Like when it actually matters and you're not giving yourself putts and yada yada yada. Like I I really it's it it it really separates the men from the boys. So um I thought it was a good conversation. Uh this and these never go the way I think they're gonna go, but I I like the way this went. I thought there was a lot of good, a lot of good stuff that got talked about today on the episode. Um, and obviously myself and the rest of the DG's out here are pulling for our man Chuck next week uh in some of these tournament rounds to go out there and represent us well.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:34

Yep, I'm gonna get the I still don't have the measure golf uh patch to put on my bag, but we we gotta get some gear.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:41

We gotta get some gear. We're gonna we're gonna work on that. Yep. Awesome. Well, I think that is going to wrap it up. It is very late here. Uh my special thanks again to Chuck for being a good sport, and it is not his fault, it's just uh lack of planning. We should have probably been on this a little bit earlier this week, so I'm going to own at least 50% of that. But uh thanks again to Chuck for being a trooper and doing this late with me uh so that we could get it out on time for everybody listening. But it's been a great episode. Um, once again, if you're catching this tomorrow at the normal normal time, Saturday mornings at 8 a.m. If you are used to that schedule and missed the special episode that dropped on Tuesday of this week with Pete Cowan, you want to make sure you go back, check that out. Really cool episode. Uh, special shout out to to Mr. Cowan for coming on, uh being very gracious with his time. He's a very busy man, but uh it was great having him on. Uh a lot of people since that has come out uh are maybe new and interested in working with me on their golf game, which is certainly a possibility. And if you are interested, you can do a couple things. You can reach out to me on Instagram at the forceplate guy or at measured golf. And if you reach out to either one of those, that will get in in touch with me directly. If you have some things that you want to hear about on the podcast or some topic ideas and you feel better reaching out to Chuck, you can reach out to him on Instagram as well at Hudlow423. You can also send him some nice notes of encouragement since he's got a big week coming up. So I'm sure he would appreciate hearing from you there as well. And if all of that is too much to remember, you can always go to measuredgolf.com where you will find everything linked there, including our YouTube channel to where we host the video part of this podcast, as well as a lot of content that is put up uh for people to work on their golf games and to get the help they need if they don't have the opportunity to work with me directly. So we hope that you're taking something away from this podcast. We hope you enjoy it, and we certainly hope that you reach out and let us know what you're interested in hearing in the future. So thanks so much. And until next time, keep grinding.