Gaming The System - The Feminist Gaming Podcast

216 - Gamer Guilt Part 2: Productivity & The Raw Dogging Life

• Gaming The System - The Feminist Gaming Podcast

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Welcome back to Gaming The System! This week, Jem, Alex, and Matt are back with Part 2 of our deep dive into gamer guilt—this time, exploring how guilt shows up in unexpected ways, from screen time worries to external judgement, and why we feel the need to justify our gaming habits.

This episode goes beyond just gaming and into the big stuff—self-worth, productivity, social connection, and the pressure to "use our time wisely." Why do some hobbies feel more acceptable than others? And how can we embrace gaming as a meaningful part of life without the guilt?

What’s in this episode?

🪡 Gaming vs. "productive" hobbies – Why does embroidery feel like a mindful, valid use of time, while gaming gets side-eyed? The team explores how hands-on hobbies get a free pass in ways gaming rarely does.

🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Solo vs. social gaming – Is gaming more “acceptable” if it’s social? We talk D&D, multiplayer guilt, and why sometimes gaming alone is exactly what we need

💬 “Gaming is built into our souls.” Matt shares how gaming has become a powerful connector in his family, and why removing gaming from his life would mean losing a vital part of himself.

😤 Rawdogging life?! – We unpack the latest toxic trend of “just enduring your thoughts” and why we’re firmly pro-podcast, pro-gaming, and pro-enjoying your downtime.

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Thanks for listening, and remember – there’s always another game to play that isn’t full of nonsense. 🎮✨

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Speaker:

Hello and welcome back to another episode of Gaming the System, the podcast where three intersectional feminists examine gaming and games through a feminist lens. I'm your host for today. I'm Gem and I'm here with my friends Alex and Matt. So before we get started, if you want to support us, you can subscribe to our patron at patreon. com forward slash gaming the system for some exclusive content, or you can send us a one off donation via PayPal to our email address. We are gaming the system at gmail. com.

Jem:

Today we are going to talk about gamer guilt. And this is really looking at the guilt that we feel around All aspects of gaming.

Alex:

I don't know if you can see the little hoop on the wall behind me, it's just an empty hoop but it's waiting, it's ready to go. And I've got, I've decorated the hallway with about three different ones because I picked it up as a hobby, like January 2024 and I've been doing it since then. And, I don't see it as a thing to feel bad about so much because it's a skill. It feels like it's more of a skill because you can actually see the progress of it in a really tangible way. Like you start off with nothing on your embroidery hoop and then a month later it's completed and it's up on the wall. So it's much more physical, tangible. sense of accomplishment, I and of, your skill increasing over time. You can see where I started and where, the work I'm doing now is, it looks much more, skilled, as it were. And, yeah, and I think also there's a, there is a mindfulness to it as an activity. You can get quite zen with it. And you can do it, while watching TV and whatever else. I can do, multiple things, while I'm doing embroidery. Although I do have to be sitting in one place, obviously. I think we've all become pretty adept at multitasking. and we're doing lots of different things all at once. Gaming doesn't quite lend itself in the same way. and also, the other thing I was going to bring up was, do you ever feel guilty about the amount of screen time you have in the day? And does that impact on the amount of gaming you do? Because embroidery was part of the reason I wanted to look into it. Because I was like, I need to cut down on my screen time. I want to do something with my hands that's not looking at a screen. Although it does require a lot of focus and concentration.

Jem:

embroidery is a positive thing because it creates, it's a productive thing, which brings us back to the point we were making earlier about this need to be productive. I think the fact that it's away from the screen is definitely going to be a plus for it. I just wanted to, touch on what you were saying about Tom

Alex:

Mm.

Jem:

out and, Doing D& D, and that's obviously a social setting, isn't it? And he's hanging out with other people you can be gaming, but solo gaming, is very different from, Socially

Alex:

Yeah. we'd had a big conversation about it, and Tom does sometimes feel bad for not being part of those gaming sessions, because he feels like he has a responsibility to be there every weekend to socialise, so it's almost like it's a challenge for him to manage as well sometimes,

Jem:

Thank you for sharing that. On the question about screen time. Uh, no, actually. I worry about the amount of time I spend on my phone. And so if I'm playing little games on my phone, then that feels naughty, or my tablet, that definitely feels quite naughty. But my computer screen, or watching TV, no, I don't have the same issues with that. I think what I have more of a problem with is sitting at my desk for too

Alex:

mm, yeah,

Jem:

in one place. What about you, Matt? How do you feel about screen time? ha ha!

Matt:

just feels like, it's that thing of I've, I'm doing all the things I need to do for a reasonable amount, and from the, the routine that I've built up that has been a really positive thing, doing it for long enough, I know that The bits that definitely matter, and you sort of, you go through, you try lots of things and then you go things like that that definitely don't matter for me. So for one thing, every sleeping expert ever says you shouldn't have any screens on for the hour before you go to

Alex:

right, yeah,

Matt:

Whereas with me, I play Hitman, and from half nine to half ten, then I turn Hitman off, and then I'm asleep within fifteen minutes.

Alex:

mm,

Matt:

So, there are so many things where, with, uh, with far more unique and individual in lots of ways that we don't necessarily get the opportunity to prove to ourselves that oh yeah doing that thing wouldn't work for me or that thing that I think one of the absolute killer thing is when you think you want to do something but because you haven't done it you you're sort of left going oh I I've still there's another day when I haven't done that

Alex:

mm,

Matt:

And, uh, one of the the clearest times of that for me was I went to see an NFL game in London a few years ago. This was, I think, the year after I'd gotten massively into it, and then I'd watched a season thinking, oh, I wish I could go and see a game. I bet it would be the best thing ever to go and see a game. I got a ticket for my birthday or for Christmas or something, and I went, and it was shit. It was a waste of time and money. It didn't, it wasn't a fraction of the fun and satisfaction I got from watching it on, even on my tablet at home. And, but you'd think that every, every one under the sun would say, Oh, NFL, there's nothing better than watching a game in person. That's just not true. And the, again, it's easier to say than do to experience as many things as you can and let go of as much responsibility as you want to and checking in with, are you, are you doing something because you feel responsible for it or because you want to do it? And one thing where I am, I have a zero, zero, zero percent. To offer our relationship building because I, I am infinitely more comfortable on my own in solitude. And it's better, and there are people who are the opposite, who can't bear to be alone. But, uh, they, they live their lives in amongst other people all the time. And I'm working on growing myself from, from out of that. So it's easier for me to, to be where I am and build what I've built around myself, because I've not had, I've purposefully not engaged with other people very much, because I needed that space to myself. And I think it's, I don't know what it's like being someone who is used to having a big Like, like social group and what it's like for them to imagine doing less of that. So the ma the massive elephant in the room, missing part of my, my it can, it can, it could appear zen that they're going, well, I'm missing this big thing that I'm working on. But, uh, again, it's, it's a lot easier to say than, than, yeah.

Jem:

Hmm. Yeah, absolutely. which kind of leads me on to this idea of external judgement. So, have either of you experienced kind of negativity from your family or friends that in the amount of time that you game, or you should be doing something else, or why don't you get off that computer and go and play football, walk round the park, do more crafting, whatever the options are.

Alex:

when I was a lot younger, my mum would put some boundaries on gaming time, but that's only if she could sense that I was becoming more frustrated than was good for me, she would know when I was getting angry with a game, and then she would come in and say, right, turn it off now. We're gonna stop. and then she'd say the dreaded, It's only a game. and then turn it off. and I used to get very, frustrated at that. But I think ultimately, what she was just doing was trying to, stop me from getting myself overwhelmed, and just have a break from it. Because obviously as a child I didn't really think about That feeling that angry was probably not a good thing to be doing. You're supposed to be having fun, so I think mum was watching for that sort of thing. I mean, when I was even younger than that and we used to just have the PC. Before we had the PlayStation, I would try and find games on the internet, and mum would say, you've only got 15 minutes, because it was dial up, and, uh, and kids today won't know what I'm on about, but she was like, you need to get off Cartoon Network's website now, I need to use the phone, things like that, so, but she didn't necessarily make me feel, I think it wasn't that she was trying to make me feel guilty. It was just that she had, she was trying to make sure that I felt okay in myself, but also because she had other things that she needed to do. so it wasn't so much from the guilt angle. I think more just like keeping an eye on, my mood

Jem:

And what about outside of your immediate circle? Do you talk to people at work about gaming? Do you talk to your social

Alex:

I think a lot of the, my, peer group, as it were, are already, already into gaming. They are gamers, so it's, completely fine. Occasionally I talk about it at work, and I think it's considered, this quirky thing. especially when I talk about, the podcast, and they'll be like, Oh, you're into that sort of thing. But then they won't necessarily really understand it because they're not gamers themselves. but they're not like, they don't make me feel bad about it or anything. I think they're just quite pleased that it's something that's going on, in my life. So yeah, I've never really experienced any, guilt tripping or shaming in that way.

Jem:

What about you Matt? Have you ever been made to feel bad about your gaming

Matt:

No, not really. I think my mum and I have always had music in common, like in the similar kinds of, uh, varied kinds of music and that sort of artistic, having art be something that's massively important. It's not a, it's not a pastime, it's a, it's a vital part of life. And Having people that you can talk to about the things that you care about, which is a massive part of what gaming the system is, gives me a place to come and say the things about games that I want to do and share my enthusiasm about it and things that it's really again coming down to the the list of the needs and the wants and the shoulds. The world is so much more complicated for the latest generations than it had been in the past. And the number of pressures that are piled on from everywhere has grown and is even more insurmountable. And to be able to recognize that and go, You're right, as long as you're doing the things that you love. you need need to do, then you shouldn't feel any pressure outside of those things for any reason. You should, if you want to do your 40 hour a week job and then play games for the rest of the time. That's good. That's fine. And if someone you care about and you think they might be Gamers understand. When a gamer says, I play 40 hours a week, they go, Oh yeah, I remember when I used to do that. Or, Oh, I wish I could get back to doing that. That was really fun. Someone who doesn't game might look at that and it's easier if it's Non gamers can't understand. It'd be very, very hard for them to comprehend how positive a force that And all it takes is, even if you don't understand gaming, like your mum did, there are times when you need to game less. There are times when you need to game differently. And from the sounds of it, your mum did a pretty good job in, it wasn't about, Stop gaming Alex, you shouldn't be gaming, you should be doing something that matters. It's going, you, you hit your sister with a Horse or something. Was that part of gaming?

Alex:

that was, I think that was just, gaming in the sense of toys and things. But yeah, when it reaches those points, you need to have a break from this now, but you can come back another time. But yeah, mum's always enjoyed watching us game. She loves, she loves watching us game. She'll treat it like watching a film sometimes. it's one of the nicest things actually is being able to share it in that way. With family.

Matt:

and just, gaming is such a, uh, built in part of our souls. You can't, you can't remove gaming from our lives and have us be the the best version of ourselves, because we need it. It's part, it's part of that. you, you want people to be able to see you want to be your authentic self and if someone discounts that part of you then that's not as the healthiest that relationship can be if someone takes steps to understand those things. That only makes relationships better. And, you might suddenly realise that you love gaming yourself. My sister has played dozens of hours of Hitman now,

Alex:

Yeah.

Matt:

having never gamed for her entire life. She's, and they've, I've, uh, she's asked me to make for her Birthday next month. A compilation from the streams that she and my mum have been doing.

Alex:

Oh, wow.

Matt:

And they've done nearly a hundred hours of streaming.

Alex:

That's amazing.

Matt:

together. From nothing, neither of them really having played games before in their life. And that's what gaming can offer. That's what gaming can be. It can be Quite apart from, so I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, they've, they've played more gaming together than I've played with another person my entire life. Because that's, that's their, that's their gaming. One that suits them most. And, the, everyone should, there's a way into gaming for everyone, I'm convinced of that. And, the, the guilt and shame and pressure and outdated thinking just cuts that off from people. And, So that's one thing that we as gamers can offer to people is going there's this wonderful thing You can and then yeah, it's just be that be that Person who says yeah I I game as much as I can with other people because then there might be other people who who game who don't game anymore who games a lot in the past and rather than gaming a bit and feeling guilty They don't game at all and feel guilty and that's where someone can go oh I'd love to unlock that thing again and you can go yes you can! You might be 60 and you never gamed before but there's a way into it and it can be great!

Jem:

I kind of hope that that's one of the things that we're doing with our podcast, that, um, by talking about it and we've talked about, gaming with your family and games to play with, with your family or people who don't know very much about gaming, how to get people into gaming in our previous episodes. Uh, so do go and check those out. it's definitely a regular topic for us. And I think that's what I hope that people take away from, Our podcast as a whole is that gaming is overall a very positive thing to have in your life. And that's why it matters that it's giving the right messages and that it's respecting the diverse audience that want to, to enjoy it and engage with it. I think that is so important. And I love seeing the little snippets that you've shared with us of that. of your mum and your sister met and the fact that they, they hadn't played and now they're playing some pretty hardcore games is just delightful, although I do often feel sorry for them as they're usually screaming at something that's jumping out at them,

Matt:

They've just, come up with a, they've, they've got a safe word now because they, they, because another fabulously useful thing healthy thing for them is to have a place to shout at each other in a in a in a place that doesn't matter it's not about and so that's a huge uh can be a very very powerful thing for for familial relationships especially as more that there have never been more Uh, young people living at their, living with their parents, going back to living in that environment. And that can be a very negative thing, and, but then you might find something like this. They've got a safe word, pineapple, for if they're shouting at each other and they go, Okay, we need to stop and, we need to take a, take a break, and go, because they're, because someone might be feeling a bit more sensitive that day, or a bit more shouty, or whatever. Um, yeah,

Jem:

yeah, I like that, no, I love that.

Matt:

I'm going to give a little bit on the rawdogging life

Alex:

on, yeah.

Matt:

Because this is, uh, this made me a podcaster that I listen to saying that he's been doing it recently and it made me really angry out of nowhere and I was thinking, right, why is, why, why is that? And I realized that, for one thing, it's the most toxic masculinity approach to mindfulness possible. It's the stupidest way to approach mindfulness. Raw Dogging Life is, it comes from the idea of Having not doing nothing you're literally so if you put it as meditation you go you sit there you don't listen to anything you don't watch anything you don't do anything you just sit there and relax. And just be there with your thoughts. There's a place in life for that. You can, pausing, and just sitting. But then the point is that it's a break, it's a rest. It's not an activity, it's a rest, where you're not doing anything. Whereas rawdogging life is when you rawdog a flight, you go on the flight, you've got no phone, you've got no music podcast, no video watching anything, no playing anything, you're just there for 13 hours with your thoughts and that's such a waste of time and thinking about having the occasional existential crisis of what's the point in life, what's, what should I be doing, what's, what's, what's the outcome of my life that I That I think I want, and for most people it's, Oh, you're supposed to have a family, and what if you don't have a family? And it's very, very, very well done in one of the Star Trek Next Generation films, because at the start, all of Jean Luc Picard's family die. And he's beyond, like, the age of having kids, and his entire family line is gone. The family line will die with him. But then he reaches the end of that that film and goes my life is this My life is the experiences that I'm doing I could do all of this and then die and then that's that's as good as anything because I've been doing what I want to do as I go through and I've come to the conclusion that forgetting about grander things. If you forget about grand, grand designs, then you should go, I want to pack in as much as I possibly can. And so that means playing as many games as I can, watching as many films, listening to as many podcasts, listening to as much music when I've got enough money, traveling as much as I can. And If you're on a flight for 13 hours, you could play any number of games, you could watch any number of films, you could listen to any number of podcasts. The entire the the Through this, the entire universe, we have it right here, all the time. And, to, to think that you're gonna do this idiot comedian that's been raw dogging life for like a couple of weeks, where he just, he's just been him with his thoughts, doing stuff, you think it's such a waste of time. If you do that for half an hour every day, that can be good. But for the rest of it It's such a catastrophic

Jem:

But from what I've seen of it, it isn't about, reaching some align, enlightenment or some inner understanding. it's literally just about an endurance challenge. And I've seen one when, on a flight where he's like, Oh, I just sat and I looked straight ahead for the whole flight. And I didn't do anything, you know, and I was like, Oh, yeah,

Alex:

It's almost like they're showing off.

Matt:

And they don't go, that's what's, that's the toxic masculine part of it.

Jem:

so horrible, isn't it?

Matt:

men having this

Alex:

bored if I had to do that, but yeah.

Jem:

That is real male privilege, actually, right there. Because, you know, if I went on a flight, I would have at least one or two people to look after. and then you've got all the people around you

Alex:

Yeah.

Jem:

You know, just having to get up and let somebody go to the toilet, all of those things are We don't live in a bubble, we live in a social environment, yes, absolutely. And you just think, yeah, what are these people, what is going on in their brains? Probably not a lot, actually, if they're able to sit there for that long. Thank you both so much. I feel like we've had a bit of a sort of therapy session today. I was not expecting this topic to get so deep and meaningful, but I think it does go to show, as you said, Alex, that gaming brings up so many issues and so many things to think about that perhaps we don't recognize. As clearly as we have today, and I think it's been really good. And it's been really interesting to hear how you both deal with, your gaming. I think I'm going to take quite a lot away from what Matt said today, and I think that I'm definitely going to be writing a list of wants, needs and shoulds, and I might plan out my life based around that, but I think that there's a huge amount of really good advice to be taken there, and I think that, and this, weirdly, is not the first time I've said this today, but it, Therapy is, is a positive thing, and going through these processes and actually thinking about why we do what we do and what we want to get out of our lives is actually a really positive thing, and I feel like that's maybe what people can be thinking about when they're analysing their game of guilt. Anyway, thank you both very much for your honesty and openness again. And I think we will be coming back with the other half, the second half of this topic relatively soon. And we would really like to hear what you think about your experiences of gamer guilt, what you think about the things that we've been talking about today, how do you balance gaming in your life? So yeah, please comment and share and like and pass this on to somebody who you think needs to have a think about their gaming guilt and their gaming experiences. Thank you very much and we'll see you soon.