Gaming The System - The Feminist Gaming Podcast

Death in Games Part 1 - Between Story and Respawn (Episode 254)

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In this episode, hosted by Jem, the GTS team explores how games use death as a storytelling tool, a gameplay mechanic, or a cheap shot. From emotional companion deaths to endless respawn loops, we dig into what death actually means in games, and why some deaths hit hard while others barely register.

Death throws

We discuss the difference between narrative deaths and mechanical deaths and how respawn loops shape how we think about failure. Share our experiences of tense and infuriating moments when death *matters* and talk about the games we've found that make death meaningful (Ghost of Tsushima, The Last of Us, Tomb Raider, God of War, Returnal, Valheim, RimWorld)

Content Warning

Discussion of death, violence, and loss in video games, plus mild body horror references.

#DeathInGames #GameMechanics #NarrativeDesign #Permadeath #RespawnLoop #GhostOfTsushima #TheLastOfUs  #EmotionalGames 

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Before we begin, I just wanted to give you a trigger warning as we will be discussing death, violence, and loss in video games, including some emotionally heavy story moments and references to body horror. If that's something you'd prefer to skip today, please take care of yourself and give this episode amiss.

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

Now we have a replacement horse which doesn't have a name, and it's just not the same'cause it's not Sora. It's very sad.

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

It's a really good narrative mechanic for adding emotion into the story. Whilst at the same time having your player character, slicing through everyone that comes in their path. It's a big conflict, isn't it,

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

it's easy for death to be cheapened in. Games. It needs to fit in the narrative in order for it to, really matter.

Speaker:

Hello and welcome back to another episode of Gaming the System, the podcast where three intersectional feminists examine gaming and games through a feminist lens. I'm your host for today. I'm Jem, and I'm here with my friends Alex and Matt. So before we get started, if you want to support us, you can subscribe to our patron at patron.com/gaming the system for some exclusive content. Or you can send us a one-off donation via PayPal to our email address. We are gaming the system@gmail.com.

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Hello and welcome to Gaming in the System. I'm Jem. And I'm with Alex and Matt. Today I was inspired to talk about the issue of death in games. I dunno if either of you two have been watching celebrity traitors. They start the series by taking all the celebrities to a cemetery there are graves for each celebrity and they are. Expected to dig their own grave, to get, a shield, which will protect them from being murdered that day. For anyone who doesn't know how it works, the traitors is a game where three people are selected to be traitors. Everyone else is faithful. And each night the traitors murder in inverted commas, a member of the faithful. And so they get kicked out. And then every night there is also a, a round table where everyone gets to quiz each other and accuse each other of being traitors or, defend themselves as being faithful. So it's a very oppositional game. Basically a murder mystery. Sort of murder in the dark really, but it was this idea of, of taking people to. The cemetery and making out that you were going to bury them, I don't know, alive or whatever. There's another episode where they dress up in funeral gear and there's a lot around death and there's this theme of murder all the way through. And it got me thinking about how as a society we treat death as a form of entertainment and what happens when we do that. I can't remember who the quote is from, but there is that quote about, death and taxes being the only two things in life that are guaranteed. So death is very much a part of life. Obviously it's something that we generally want to avoid. And it's shocking and challenging when it happens for real. And then that you juxtapose that with turning it into a form of entertainment, an entertaining theme. In my opinion, this doesn't happen more than within the games world because so many of our games have. Death in them, in some form or other. It's a fundamental mechanic within the game, genre so I thought we would see if we can unpack some of these issues and see what we can get our heads around. We are going to do two episodes on this, shorter ones. And so this first half we, I want to look more at, death as a mechanic, and as a narrative tool within games. What I'd like to ask you both is when we talk about death in games, what is the first thing that comes to mind for you? Is it the story of the character or the story within the game, or is it more the mechanical, oh my God, you died. Moment of frustration, that might come with that.

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

For me at the moment. It's definitely the former, but I think that's to do with the game I'm playing at the moment, which is Ghost of Tsushima we've got to a part in the game that's very sad. Basically the start of Act three I guess it could be spoilery, I'll say spoilers if you've not played. you've played, haven't you, Matt?

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Yeah.

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

Yeah. Jem, if you, if you want to play, it is a bit spoiler, but basically at the start of Act three, your horse, who you've had with you for the entirety of Act one and two dies, and it actually was really difficult to watch. It was a whole, it was a whole cut scene, like a, like a five minute cut scene. and basically a horse, whatever you choose to name it, you've got like three options. And we chosen Sora, which means, the sky in Japanese, I think. And it was a lovely white horse shot by arrows from, the Mongols. He had tried to get us to safety in the north of the island we'd been exiled after arguing with our uncle. He unfortunately passed away on the road in the cold in the snow. And then it kind of fades black and comes back and you are next to the grave with the location, grave of a loyal friend.

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Oh.

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

Very emotional. And I did not want to continue playing the game after that point'cause I didn't have Sora with me. It was not the same. we had no horse for a while and now we have a replacement horse which doesn't have a name, and it's just not the same'cause it's not Sora. It's very sad. So yeah, that took a lot of my thoughts when you, pose that question to us. I think definitely at the moment, my head space is very much, death as part of the story and the impact that death of a character you've spent a long time with within the game world can do to impact the story and your experience of the story. But yeah,

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Imagine how long it would take to bury a horse.

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

a very long time.

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

That's where you went, Matt.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Yeah.

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

Yeah.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

I could go into more glib things about it, but yes, talk about it more when we do our deep dive at some point. I've been thinking about it more mechanically,

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

Hm.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

purely because the mechanical deaths happen more regularly than actual deaths,

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Mm.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

It's another area of the human condition that games need to make something that is unrealistic, like dying over and over again. Make that make sense within the game that you're playing. so like little nightmares and Ani Animal we've been playing over the weekend. You die over and over and over again with that. It's funny'cause it's us failing, I have to think back to there've been plenty of deaths in gaming that have really affected me and are really powerful. But I think it's easy for death to be cheapened in. Games. When she goes, oh no, this person's died, it needs to fit in the narrative in order for it to, really matter. I've played Spider-Man two, twice in a row, then I went back and played Spider-Man one twice in a row. Then I played Spider-Man Miles, Morales, twice in a row, and now I'm back playing Spider-Man two again, this time on pc and I've finally cracked how to set the game up so it looks the best at the highest frame rate's. Mental how impossible it is to sort out how graphics works. But I've, nailed it down, touch wood. And even when it's, so there's a bit where you think Peter's dead and you know, obviously he can't be dead'cause he's the main character, that's part of the skill of it is making you go, making you feel something and then it not feel cheap. when it does it, and then the way that they don't die is part of the narrative but you build building up relationships of people and then killing them. In an impactful way, it's a lot harder to write good deaths than it is to make, pithy mechanical deaths. So yeah, my first thought is the mechanics of it,

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

yeah, I think I would agree with you, Matt. I mean, that was my first thoughts when I think about death in games. When I was looking at this topic, I separate them into two very clearly and quickly in my head. You know, there's the storyline and people might die in that, and that's separate from the sort of mechanical game deaths. I mean, it wasn't until I started thinking about it in terms of this conversation that I recognized how distinct my concept of those two ways of viewing death within the game world was, it is a really fundamental, part of gaming how a game works, how a game challenges us, and how we create, characters and create the storyline within, the technical and mechanical aspect of the game. And I was wondering how you think about that and what that says about our relationship with, failure and sort of finality, the way that death happens and then you respawn and then you go again, and then you might die and you respawn and you go again. That this is such a fundamental part of gaming.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

It serves a function, so you can't just have, so a problem with a game, you reach a point where you've screwed up or whatever the stakes are, you need to be able to go back and reset to a previous point. deaths is just a, a really simple way around that. a lot of games with, combat Some games, like the Dark Souls Games, the Elden Rings game, they actually make death part of the narrative and gameplay, which is really interesting. And yeah, I just, I, I think it's, it's so disconnected the, the, the deaths in gaming. It's so just completely divorced from the reality of death. I don't think it, I don't think it ever occurs to me when I'm playing

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

No.'cause it's like a refresh, isn't it? Unless you play with Parama death, in which case there are. but then also I was thinking about this question in terms of like how often in games you are, the protagonist character just killing hundreds and hundreds of enemies.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Yeah.

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

I don't think of it like they were real deaths because you become desensitized to it and it represents your progression through the game. You see it as a marker of progress more than anything else

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

yeah, it's been very, very, very rare that games make me feel weight of actually killing people.'cause I'm

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

Hmm.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

I've, I've killed you get a trophy and hit man when you kill two and a half thousand people.

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

Yeah.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

I don't know whether that matters necessarily, whether we'd benefit from the random NPCs that we kill,

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

Hmm.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

whether

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

Because I remember you talking about how the MPCs would name each other in the last of us

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Mm.

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

that changed how you felt about it, which was quite interesting. I remember, in the first of the modern trilogy, or yes, no, it's the most modern trilogy of tomb raid, when she's, on the Japanese island and essentially there's a scene where for the first time she shoots somebody. It is quite dramatic. They tried to make it impactful and make it mean something, but then five minutes later it's like your average game, you're just killing people and there's no sort of reaction to it. So they did try, but then they kind of just sort of scrapped it immediately after and we're like, oh, it's fine now it's normal. It didn't quite have the impact that perhaps they would've wanted. The developers, the writers,

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

yeah, because when you choose to go, we're gonna try and be dramatic and realistic with this bit that can't just turn that tone on and off. You can't go, oh, we're gonna have a bit about her being really sad that she's killed someone for the first time, and then turn into your average action experience. If you're gonna have some, the process of someone getting used to killing things, needs to be an arc with a, the conclusion at the end, it goes, there wasn't another way

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

Mm-hmm.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

to go through this.

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

Yeah.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Sometimes there isn't another way, which means that I know that I can kill now, and that there'll be times in the future where there won't be a choice,

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Hmm.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

then you can explore that. But then that has to be at the core'cause that's a character thing.

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

Hmm.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

How different people react to killing someone for the first time is a fascinating character thing.

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

Definitely.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

you have to choose whether they're going that's actually gonna be part of the game that you want to play or not. A good example is, and whether it, it doesn't have to be the, the main thing of the game, it can be an undercurrent thing, like with a trace in God of war he kills a man for the first time and he's just utterly like in shock. And Retos tells him to close his heart to it and then has to talk him into carrying him, carrying on and, goes. And he goes, oh, okay. And then RAOs goes, we'll go home, then nevermind. And then that's where it gets to reco. Oh, no, no, we've got, we've got something to do. We've got to go.'cause, and then, and then you go on from there. That is a part of at Andreas's character. And then later on when He goes all, all evil and, kills one of the, one of the sons of Thor CTOs is like, what the hell did you do that for? And the REOs was like, oh, it doesn't matter. He wasn't as strong as us. And then it has to be, death can be extremely powerful. It's the one thing we all have in common that is that we're gonna die at some point. And you're either up for wrestling with that and the benefits that come with it as well. It's automatic built in tension and stakes and everything. But you've got to be one to do it. You've got to be a skilled writer to do it on the best of days. If you half as it which is what a lot of games do,

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Mm.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Yeah, not as compelling,

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Yeah, there's a bit of a conflict there isn't there for, from a game design perspective it's a really good mechanic for adding challenge to a game. It's a really good narrative mechanic for adding emotion into the story. But those two aspects can clash because you can't maintain. One and have the other. Murder or death is so important whilst at the same time having your player character, slicing through everyone that comes in their path. It's a big conflict, isn't it,

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

it is very frustrating when you and your like partner will shoot their way through hundreds of enemies through the campaign and then in the last of us, we've survived going through this city and all these things. And then if you burst through a door and your mate gets shot in the head and you go, that's just narrative bollocks that is because what happened when we were running away from the W and all those clickers attacked we had to drive fucking through the forest and we survive all that. But now when it's narratively convenient, it happens which robs so much weight of it.

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Mm.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Why did they run through that door? It feels like there was no other way for this. There was no way to save it.

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Thinking more about when your character dies, is there an emotional difference between dying in a game like Mario or. Excom or, you know, any of those games and dying in something that maybe has either perma death or has considerable disadvantages when you die.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

A game where death was critical part of the narrative was Returnal. Which is where you're on this planet. That's, says it's pro but there are, I'm sure there are four environments that are the same, and then it just puts them in random order.

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Mm-hmm.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

I was a bit disappointed with it, but it was successful. Every time you die, it takes you right back to the start and then resets everywhere that you went through. So when you die, it doesn't matter how far you get, it takes you right back to the ship you crashed in. I played it for a bit and then got a bit fed up with it and, looked at the plot summary your goal is to get off the planet at some point, if you get to that bit, you get your ship, fly back to earth, you live your life and then this family and everything, and then live your whole life, and then you die peacefully of old age and then you wake up in the ship again, that is terrifying. the sort of black mirror stuff that utterly horrifies me. The idea of living your entire life thinking you've escaped, and then it being ping right back to that bit of that, of that loop

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Yeah,

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

oh,

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

So really what you're saying is that it wasn't the death that was traumatic or emotionally challenging, it was the coming back to life in that scenario.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

There's an episode of South Park where butters, he does something that basically means that the entire universe ceases to exist, and it's just him a blank page he goes, oh, nope, I want to bring the universe back. And then it puffs back into existence. This is very existential stuff that I think about is it the same universe that blinked out or is it a universe rebuilt? Is it, like pressing undo on a computer? it of the reality from Butter's perspective even if you click it back, it's not the same thing.

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

Hmm.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

of something like the loss of something, something going away there's a fabulous game that I've been playing recently. That one or both, or either of you have also been playing where I could talk about this forever, but I have to wait to do and hold that to myself. I am glad that Jem came up with this topic'cause

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

Hmm.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

I wanted to do it as well. It's very easy to get sucked into existentialism.

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

What about you, Alex?

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

It's a funny one, isn't it really? I was trying to think about how emotional I get when my character dies. I think it's more of a frustration if I'm finding a particular part of a game challenging. The closest I've come to it, like a soul's like is probably, the Jedi Fallen Order Jedi survivor games. When you die you have to go back and get your, XP or whatever it is. You have to go back and get it or you will lose the progress for leveling up. Your character

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

you have to go back and re-earn it, or you have to go collect it.

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

to where you died.

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Yeah.

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

So you'll have

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

killed you.

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

Exactly, yeah. You have to hit the enemy that killed you. so you kind of reborn that essentially a bonfire. But it's like a forced meditation point. If you die again while going to get it, you permanently lose whatever you've collected. That brought about more of a weight to dying,

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Hmm.

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

But I think in terms of emotions, I don't. Become so emotionally attached to those types of deaths because they're a natural part of the game's mechanics. Like we've said, we're talking about mechanics obviously in this particular episode. So it's more of seeing that as either a barrier to progression or something that's gonna give you a fresh, clean slate and you try again. In some games every time you die, you've learned a little bit more about how to do better next time.

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Hmm.

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

a platforming challenge, if you miss a jump, you come back, you're like, right, I'll try it this way. And then you do it and you make it through. So you can see it from kind of all different perspectives really. But the deaths that mean the most emotionally are definitely. story based or with a game like, What Remains Edith Finch? The death of the protagonist comes as quite an interesting particular part of, that whole narrative

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Mm.

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

don't necessarily expect it,

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Mm

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

game has been about death, and the death of, Edith's family members. So it's really cleverly done

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Yeah.

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

was really emotional. Definitely. But again, that's a very narrative heavy game.

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

Mm

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

quite the same.

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

I was thinking about games where Perma death is actually a genuine situation and there aren't very many of them. EXCOM is one that comes up, but I've not, I've not actually played excom, so I, I can't speak to that. But, I'm playing Valheim at the moment, and when you die, it's not massively traumatic, but it can be quite. Challenging if you're in a strange place. When you die, you drop all of your gear where you died and then you need to go back and get it because it, it's taken a long time to make all of that stuff. There is a motivation for you to want to go back and collect your body. So dying in a strange place, like right out in the middle of an ocean or right near difficult things to kill or difficult to get to, places is really stressful. There have been times where it's been like, oh my gosh, I don't wanna die here. Last time that happened. I was like, oh, I'll go and get the bodies. Then I died another five times trying to retrieve my body. I just basically left a big, long line of bodies between me and the nearest safe point. That put some meaning into the whole thing because it became increasingly frustrating. The other game that came to mind was, is actually rim world. I dunno if either of you have played,

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

Yeah,

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

that.

alex--she-her-_1_10-28-2025_191630:

About.

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

it's so much fun. Very technical and it's a little builder game the whole point is to tell a story of survivors on this planet and. The idea is that the game will provide you with ways to survive. So if almost all of your people die, new people will arrive at some point to help you carry on. The encouraged way to play is not to save and reload when things go wrong and is to, allow the, the story of the game and the story of your survivors to flow in a natural way, which is great and definitely. Puts a real edge on it, but it's also can be really, really stressful because again, it's about your progress. You've made all this progress with this person, or your base. You send your people out somewhere and they die, and suddenly your base has no one who can cook no medic, or no one who can build things. It becomes a whole different challenge within the game that has been caused as a result of these characters dying. I suppose that is perma death for that one character, it's not perma death for your game. It still creates tension around death. Death is a final thing.

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

I am just remembering talking about excom, the games where you're in charge of NPCs and you send them on missions if they die, that's your responsibility, EXCOM has that. And Valkyria Chronicles has that. I really felt in that as a fabulous, turn based game. Some of the Assassins Creed games, when you start having assassins who can come in and, you can basically call them in to assassinate people for you and come and join you in fights. Another really impactful one for me is Attack on Titan there's a video game version of it and it's awesome. Completely captures everything about it. So I've watched the entire series, so I know what the story is for it all. And when you're in battle, you've got allies who are fighting and killing the titans well. Most of'em are just normal cadets. They're not anything special. If one of them gets grabbed by a titan, you can go and save them before the timer runs out. I go and try and save that person every time. when I, when I fail to save them, really upsets me because there is just, there's something about being eaten alive that just rubs me the wrong way it's like with zombie things, there's just something. Unbearable about that happening to someone. That's when like you've got your, the rank and file soldiers where to get you to care about stopping what you're doing and going to try and rescue one of them, one of them, or trying to make sure that everyone survives a battle in order to win. Some of us are gonna have to lose.

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

mm

mat-guest503_1_10-28-2025_191626:

that's tricky.

jem_1_10-28-2025_191626:

If you're gonna make an omelet, you have to break a few eggs.