266 - Making a Man Out of GPU - Part 1

This episode continues a multi-part conversation on masculinity and “positive masculinity,” focusing on who gets to define masculinity and how the concept has changed throughout history. The discussion is sparked by China’s media crackdown on “effeminate men,” framed as promoting “revolutionary culture” and official morality, and explores how gender norms can function as social and political control in authoritarian systems and beyond. The speakers compare cultural expectations across China, the US, and the UK, including how class shaped one host’s upbringing and feelings of needing to repress traits seen as nontraditional. They argue that claims of a single “natural” masculinity mirror narratives that present capitalism and other systems as inevitable, and they critique propaganda that equates masculinity with aggression, dominance, and emotional suppression. The conversation examines figures like Andrew Tate as reinforcing a hierarchy that exploits young men, and references research suggesting testosterone is linked to status-seeking rather than inherent violence. The episode connects hardening gender roles to periods of crisis and to broader political scapegoating—of migrants, LGBTQ+ people, women, and disabled people—arguing these narratives distract from inequality and protect those with wealth and power by keeping “peasants” fighting each other instead of challenging the ruling class.

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Transcript

Matt 0:14

So today's episode, we are having what is effectively a part three to our conversation about masculinity and positive masculinity that we did last year. Having some time to think about it over Christmas and the, these pairs of episodes gonna be called Making a Man Out of GPU. And the topic being who decides what the definition of masculinity is who gets to decide that. And we're gonna look back at history and see how the concept of masculinity has in fact evolved and changed. It has never been, it has never been this cave man, this alpha male thing. It has changed massively throughout the course of history. And the most important part of that is why. Why that has happened. The initial point of inspiration for this came from a change in the Chinese policy towards male role models and male people who are being represented in media, tv, et cetera. The recently, so I'll read through a little bit of this article as well, that gives an explanation of what it's, China's government banned effeminate men on TV and told broadcasters to promote revolutionary culture, broadening a campaign to tighten control over business and society and enforce official morality. So that's a really, that's a critical part of it. So. This idea of, he wants it to be national rejuvenation. This is another part of them reducing access to gaming. And this is a, this is the words of the Chinese TV regulator making these statements. But this is in English. There's resolutely put an end to sissy men and other abnormal aesthetics. And there's a slang term called Ning P, means girly guns.

Jem 2:40

Curly guns.

Matt 2:41

Yeah. So, and is a very, because it's a an authoritarian system, it. Which is quite stunning. Consider how global the reach of China is in terms of its people. There are Chinese people, like in every country, all over the place, and you'd think that would be them coming into contact with like, all the different societies would force China to do to not do things like this, to not try and be in control. But this is an area where a policy called the, have you heard the one, China Principle four?

Jem 3:31

Yes, but I dunno very much about it. I dunno very much about China in general, to be fair.

Tom 3:38

Yeah, I'm not really familiar with it. Unless it's anything to do with the one child policy, which I assume it's

Matt 3:43

No, you know, it's it's different from that. That's a fascinating thing in itself in terms of gender of the, well, the horror stories based on that, but, well, that's for another day. So this I misunderstood the initial like meaning of it. It's to do with Taiwan.'cause China has always said that there is one Chinese state and that can, that includes Taiwan. Whereas Taiwan is the, like the hottest bed of Chinese. I think it's, I think it's Taiwan and Tibet that they are going. They're, they are ours. We name, we may not necessarily own them right now, but they are ours. And this idea that. There is one China, but it also expands, I think to their way, the way of life that the government is trying to enforce on people. So they, if you've ever watched any Chinese martial arts movie or any Chinese action movie, you'll always find at the end it'll be the Chinese going, oh, we've got a common enemy, which is the outside world, and we are gonna come together regardless of our differences, and then we're going to do things for China. And this applies to the traditional masculinity that they are trying to enforce here. So the, yeah. And so that idea of. Traditional masculinity, which is what I want to unpick here today. As of today from our experience of the media environment, what are your impressions of what the traditional masculinity is meant to be?

Jem 5:47

I think that, this is a co, a really complicated topic because I think that is different depending on where you are in the world. I think it's really interesting that you've highlighted China in relation to this topic because in. The culture in China is so, so very different from the, from Western culture, for example, that there's a very, that the, that we don't really understand so much about it. And I think that, you know, the idea of, when I think about masculinity in China, it's very different from the masculinity that I think about in, say the us. And I've sort of picked the US rather than the UK because I think at, you know, in a lot of ways, traditionally the US has been op in opposition to China. So, so there's a cultural kind of distinction between them. And I do think that's also played out in masculinity. So my idea of. And want to make it clear that this is a stereotypical idea of what I view. Well, Matt, what do you want, what do you want us to talk about? Because obviously there is toxic masculinity which, you know, it falls into one category. There is sort of the popularized masculinity and then there is actual masculinity. There is like, you know, the people in my life, you know, I've, and all of them exhibit all of those different things are exhibited in different ways and have different traits. So, so I feel like I can't talk about. What my concept of masculinity is, because if I'm thinking about Andrew Tate, it's going to be one thing, and if I'm thinking about my husband, it's going to be something completely different.

Matt 7:56

probably a good thing.

Jem 7:57

the gods.

Matt 7:58

I'm thinking in this case of narrowing it to. The, so let's say America for example, the kind of masculinity that is being, it's the archetype that they're trying to impress upon people. So it's that the idea of traditional is the core of this. So, in the thing of there only being two genders, you're either a man or you're a woman. And that's that. When we know that is untrue and inaccurate. So, yeah. So Tom, so when, I don't dunno how you feel about masculinity, but how do you feel and how have you felt you are meant to be that you either can't be or don't want to be or have decided you don't want to be?

Tom 8:54

Yeah wanna give my life story necessarily, but I think it's useful to put my experiences into context. So for me, masculinity has always been your experience of masculinity or the expectations have always been linked heavily to class. So I grew up. My whole childhood, actually, you know, up until sort of the age of 16, my parents and I lived in the, some of the poorer bits of Surrey. And the primary school I went to was in a disadvantaged area. So I learned quite quickly at primary school that the boys and the men weren't acting the way my dad did. My dad fairly traditionally masculine in a lot of ways, but he's a he's a white collar guy, you know, he's worked in an office his whole life. He likes old movies. He, I guess words like this didn't exist when he was young necessarily, but I guess you could call him kind of nerdy, kind of geeky and have those kind of pursuits. So obviously a lot of that is how I've turned out and what I was interested in. And it became clear to me that a lot of the boys around me didn't share the same interests as me and didn't share the same sort of social norms as me. You know, you are expected to be a hard let, you're expected to like football, fight people and not care about schoolwork. So my experience in masculinity was that I was doing something wrong. And that formed a lot of how I lived my life as a youngster and how I live my life now. I don't think I am fantastically, traditionally masculine or anything like that. I don't think I'm beholden to a lot of those traditional ideas, but I think in another world I might be quite a different person. I might be more flamboyant, I might be more. Extra, if you will, and kind of have that side to my personality where I think I learned quite young to repress that. And so I think I'm really interested in the idea that the Chinese proclamation included the word effeminate and that idea that masculinity is in their eyes, in he inherently at odds with femininity and being effeminate. So presumably this is about national revitalization and trying to make the country better. At least that's what they're saying it is for then the idea is that men being effeminate and maybe being flamboyant or working jobs that involve caring or the kind of compassionate side rather than, you know. Fixing things with your hand, working in industry or a kind of white collar, masculine way, you know, dominating other companies or succeeding in the workplace by beating others. Yeah, it's interesting that I know you could argue for hours about whether China ever was or is communist, but it's interesting that

Matt 12:17

I have so much to say about communism, but I'll carry on.

Tom 12:21

it is interesting that the US and China, in many ways opposed and supposedly have opposing philosophies have reached the same conclusion in a lot of ways that being effeminate, girly, whatever makes you less of a man and therefore less able to succeed in society and less able to do your country proud.

Matt 12:44

Yeah my, so my thing about communism is that communism has never truly existed because every time a communist like superpower has emerged, like with the two ones of main ones of Russia or in China, the very first thing that happened was one man comes in and goes, right, I'm in charge of everything. Two, we're gonna kill like 30% of our population, and then we are gonna have an authoritarian regime from then on. So the idea of communism existing today is. Is just untrue. It's just, it just becomes authoritarianism. So that's what we're dealing with. So China isn't this communist boogeyman, which is how it can be portrayed. It's still authoritarian. It's not a dictatorship, but it's still authoritarian where the government decide what happens. The, and with America, I, my, my assessment of why China and America, I think they do it for different reasons. I think America uses it as a way to make young men and men angry and resentful of their fellow citizens, making them more. Inclined to aggression and violence, which we can see happily expanding throughout America at the hands of ice at the moment. Do you think all those men, like cracking the skulls of protesters and beating up people of color, they're probably not like, they're probably not like flamboyant or effeminate or thinking of themselves as, oh I'm not bothered about traditional masculinity when they exhibit all the calling signs of the most toxic masculinity of violence and anger and hatred. Cowardice, which is antithetical to that idea from if you weren't, if you thought you were doing the right thing, you're on the right side of history, you've got the legal backing of the president and the government. You wouldn't wear a mask after they've been complaining throughout COVID that wearing a mask was against their human rights. And then when it comes to China, I think it's because it, they've got, they're on the path to 2 billion people now. And the more variety there is in those people, the harder they are going to be to keep control of, because. If you've got, if you've got two genders, that means that the entire 2 billion people, you cut'em down the middle, you've got one box, and then you've got another box. If you've got non-binary people, then that's maybe 40%, 45% male, 45% female, 10% non-binary. That 10% is a block of people that can come together and try to affect change. And if you've got non-binary people and you've got LGBT people, that maybe brings it up to 15, 20%. And then you expand what masculinity is. So there are people who can be flamboyant, who can, who like cross dressing, drag racing, drag dressing up in drag, drag, any number of things. And then the more variety that there is, the harder it is for them to rule. So.

Tom 16:30

Yeah, it's a means of control, isn't it? You, because expressing your gender and your identity is about personal freedom. It's about. Living your authentic self. And if you start from a point of view and of an author, authoritarian government, if you start letting people do that, then maybe they start thinking their personal truth is actually, maybe I'd like to vote and have some control over my destiny. And so the more freedom they can quash, the more people get used to it and don't question it, and it's so by, by oppressing this seemingly unrelated thing about gender, you can repress them on a economic level, on a social level.

Jem 17:26

I mean, it is, it's a very powerful narrative, isn't it? This idea that there is one way to be, and it's used in many. Aspects of society by people who try to get us to think that everything is inevitable. It's the natural position we would get here. Whatever happens. We've talked about it with regards to capitalism. I've had arguments with people over capitalism, and I've been told, well, if we strip the whole thing back to nothing and started again, we would still end up in this position, which is absolute rubbish. It's not, it is not inevitable. It is not the only way that things can go, and it is not the only way that the world can be viewed. And we know that. We know that there are alternative ways of managing these things. We know there are multiple ways to be a man or a woman or non-binary or whatever, you know? And I

Matt 18:25

When, sorry? Just when you were having that conversation with those people, were they, did, what impression did you get from them? Was it an era? Were they saying that with sort of resignation going, oh yeah, this is always what is gonna happen, or What I think is a doubly insidious thing about this, these narratives is that era of smugness. It's like, I am, I know the truth and you are being stupid and I'm the one with common sense and I'm clever.

Jem 18:55

yeah. It was the latter. It was definitely the latter and it was a, you know, it obviously, there's no point in us getting rid of capitalism because it is, it's the, it's an imperfect, you know, situation. But it is the most sensible one. It's the one that we would always end up back at and. And it did that never sat right with me. And the more that I've read and the more that I've learned the more I realized that I was completely right to not be comfortable with that. But it is a very powerful narrative. And so this idea that there is one way for a man to be, and if you do anything else, then you are somehow not a man, despite the fact that at the same time these groups are sort of legalizing that you were born a man, you were, you know, you are born one thing, you are born a man, or you are born a woman, and that is all you can ever be. You can also not be that, excuse me. So I think you know what it does is it stops you in your tracks because there's no point in fighting it if that's inevitable. If it's inevitable, then there's no point in fighting it. There's no alternative to it. And if you don't feel that you fit into that. then you are wrong, then you are at fault. You are a problem. And humans, naturally, we want to be part of the tribe. We don't want to get kicked out of our tribe, so we do our best to fit in. So it actively encourages people to maintain and what's the word? Conform to the, to that idea of what is a man or to spend their time apologizing for the fact that they don't quite fit into that category. The amount of men that I have met in my life who've apologized for not liking football. You know, or who've been like, you know, oh, I don't really know how cars work, or I don't really, you know, these things that are like cliche male interest. And I'm just like, okay, get over it. You know, like, but they obviously, you know, from a very young age, men are taught this is how a man should be. And I think there's a really good book who come back to me and I will give, I will work. Remember who it's by and share that with you.

Matt 21:18

Yeah, it is interesting, Tom, I've not, I try not to think about secondary school as much as I possibly can. But yeah that feeling of the loudest, strongest boys got to set the tone and that you felt you, there's always that areas you feel like you should be doing or you should be good at or you should know and. Because it's all a big stereotype. It's a house of cards of things that don't, they, it just, it can't be met that mold. You can't, it's impossible for anyone to fill that mold and.

Tom 22:02

Well, yeah, it's it's a recipe for disaster. You know, I might have been made to feel excluded or like I was doing something wrong'cause I wasn't trying to fit this mold as. Or not able to fit this mold as capable as others, but I think almost certainly those guys who grew up fitting that mold are going to come up against barriers. You know, the ability to express emotion, the ability to succeed in an environment where the biggest, toughest guy doesn't get you the victory. It doesn't get you what you are aiming for.

Matt 22:41

only be one biggest, toughest guy.

Tom 22:44

Yeah. Yeah. And it's very rarely you, it's very, you know, it's very rarely

Jem 22:50

Well, this is

Tom 22:51

the pile.

Jem 22:52

thinking about Andrew Tate.'cause he's the one that comes to mind when I think about these kind of conversations and and I was thinking about him in the runup to this conversation and about how he, he presents this argument that the world is. Unfair to young men because there are all these conditions that are put in there by women, especially feminists of how men should be. And therefore, you know, lots of men struggle to meet those conditions and therefore they become beta men. And he presents himself as somebody who can guide you become to becoming an alpha male. But the reality is that he is the alpha in his world, he is the alpha male. That means none of you lot can become an alpha male because you would be in direct competition with him, which actually means that what he's doing is he is bullying all of these young men. He's bullying them, he's telling them, you know, you can be this and you should be this. And oh, you know, whilst at the same time exhibiting all of the challenges that these people are experiencing, you know, by putting he's the barrier his attitude is the barrier. You know, women don't only want men with, you know, rippling muscles and, you know, who can beat up a bloke in a boxing ring? We don't want guys who are sucking on bloody cigars. They stink, by the way, you know, we don't want that. You know what we want is somebody who is interested in what we have to say and to, you know, be a part, a genuine partner in our lives and he's telling people that this is how a man should be. And he's telling young men who are not that, and they think that he's their savior and he's not. He's their bully. He is perpetuating this.

Matt 24:52

And he's exploiting them.

Jem 24:54

He is exploiting them for his own sense of power so that he can be the alpha male. And I think one thing that I found, what I discovered quite recently is that there's been quite a lot of research into testosterone and that we tend to associate testosterone with this kind of macho masculine, hyper-masculine behavior. But actually what testosterone really does is it makes you status seeking. So it encourages you to do things that will give you status that isn't always violence, that isn't always physical prowess. There is status in many ways. It can be who owns the biggest car, who donates the most money to charity, who has the most female friends, you know? I mean, it can be all sorts of things. It just depends on what the culture you are within values. So in, in the sort of Andrew Tate culture, physical prowess is what? And, you know, and having women that are just gonna run around after you is what is how he represents status in other situations in the science world, for example, it might be how many papers you've had published, completely different things. So it's not right to say that the natural state for testosterone fueled men is violence and aggression and physical prowess. That's, that is, there is no scientific support for that. So this idea that there is one way to be masculine, and therefore a way that you can say that somebody isn't masculine is just, it's not based on anything except for cultural bullshit really.

Tom 26:36

When when people argue that capitalism or. You know, a traditional view of masculinity or whatever is natural. Oh we're animals. And that's just the way it shakes out. I always think, well, it's natural for us to poop on the floor, but we invented toilets and we chose to change that. Are you saying you don't think there's room for us to improve? You don't think there could be a better world that exists? You are willing to just stay pooping on the toilet. Sorry. You are willing to stay pooping on the floor and not using the toilet. You are willing to, you know, just eat raw meat that's barely cooked over a fire instead of, you know, a delicious Michelin star meal. That's, you know, I'm setting up extreme examples here, but the idea that something, because we're animals we have to be a certain way, is shortsighted because we are animals who have been through. You know, thousands of years of development and we've come to a place where we do a lot of things that, you know, the fox outside your dog, your cat don't do, cats don't hold podcasts. Dogs don't write papers. So why should we expect to on the same level as them? We are animals and it's important to recognize that, but we're also capable of more.

Matt 28:01

Yeah. And as with any form of propaganda the, one of the most devastating parts of it is how, once it's got its grip on someone, it's so, so hard to snap them out of that. So with stuff like this. You are the message is that if you are trying to be this masculine archetype, you are the smart one. You are the one who knows what the truth of the world is. You know what the natural order of things and the inevitable outcome of things. And that if someone says that isn't true, then they're stupid and you are clever. And that traps them in a place where the more they have bought into that and the deeper they are in that community, the any time someone, like if Tom comes from the outside and says, would you prefer to shit on the floor like caveman did and. Eat raw meat as opposed to this pizza that I'm having later. Then what should happen is them go, oh yeah maybe I'm, if I'm wrong about that, maybe I'm wrong about some of the other things. It's much easier to go, but if I'm wrong about this, then I'm stupid and I can't bear to feel stupid.'cause the people I who tell me what I think, tell me I'm clever for believing them. And that is not, again, I think there is a stereotyping of people who get caught up in the propaganda, like the propaganda of masculinity that they are the. The least educated people, the least wealthy people, and that it's a, an exploitation of those with without the knowledge or resources to know better, but it applies to every single part of society. There are people who are some of the most brilliant minds like in the world, who believe this same stuff and a problem people like us have who we want people their lives to be better. These people who, when we say these conversations that we are having and hoping that if they're listening to this, what our hopes are is that they are able to imagine a different path. That you are, it is safe to imagine that path and to walk down it to try that. And so we know it's, and that's not only, it's not just doing it for other people's benefit thinking, oh yeah, it would be nice if everyone was of happier, but it's better for us as well because people who aren't, who are able to get away from say violence, to reach a point where they're going, they have no, it's not about not having a desire for violence. It's just not having that, that, like, I want to punch people a lot. I want to beat, I want to go and beat people with bats and hammers a lot, but I don't want to, I'm too tired to bother with all that. I just wanna play games, talk to my friends, and that's it really. And that's okay. I'm not trying to run a multimillion dollar business. I'm not trying to sleep with as many women as I possibly can. And that's fine. If we could pivot, even like 20% of the men who are stuck in this manosphere, if we could get them to a point where they genuinely just go, oh, the idea of doing violence of any kind. Just, I just, I can't be bothered with that. I don't if I'm being told that I should do that, I just go, I don't care about that thing. The world would be so much safer, so quickly. Almost all of violent crime is men. And we talk, we focus for the most part, about like 90% of the people who kill women are men. But then pretty much 95% of the people who kill men are men. Men kill people, men assault people. It's, it is practically always a man that does it. So it's not about, and like with your people talking to you about capitalism, you are not trying to make them feel stupid by going, there's a, there's another way. There are better ways, there are different ways. I'm not trying to make you feel stupid. I'm trying to, I'm trying to open your eyes so that you could be an ally in making everyone's lives better.

Tom 33:32

Yeah, there's, you know, I, we can't lie to ourselves. There's an element where you are having an argument and you want to be right, and the other person to admit that you are right. But the difference between a. Espousing a violent and oppressive ideology and one that says, Hey, maybe we should be nice to each other, is that one ends with something good happening for one person, and the other ends with something good happening for everyone.

Matt 33:59

Yeah. And the, I think about this a lot because the reason that capitalism and the ruling class and the art of patriarchy built wants to build this environment of antagonism and aggression is that. They want us fighting the peasant'cause we're all peasants. They don't think of, our men are more, the man is more important or superior to the woman. They think they're all peasants. They're all peasants in the mud. And as long as we keep them as fighting each other, then they're not gonna come together and fight us. And that adds another layer to making it harder. Because like, the fact that we have the NHS is a miracle that it was, it started just after world Wari and since then, everyone in the country has had access to the NHS for 70 years that somehow that came into existence and we've had freak healthcare ever since. But in places like America. The animosity that a huge amount of white people had towards black people and how that was exploited and encouraged by the southern states, they were able to build an environment where these white racists would rather have their own lives be worse as long as the black people's lives were even worse. They would rather live in the gutter as long as the black people were in the mud. But the, and like with let's say the reform party in the uk, there. narrative with these small boats, which I've seen written fucking everywhere, that small boats are the biggest problem that we as a nation face, and the reason that they, the politicians that they vote for, the reason that the selling point that they have is the poll politician is saying, I will take the people who you hate and I'll make their lives worse. Those desperate people come in over, over the channel. I will make their lives worse. The people who are L-G-B-T-I will make their lives worse. Women, I'll make their lives worse, and then that is just feels the best to those voters who, and building that blood thirstiness. But then what they don't tell them is that. I'm gonna make like your, the people you hate lives worse. But in order to do that, I'm gonna do that by making your lives worse. So I'm gonna make everyone's lives worse.

Jem 37:14

Well, I think it's even it's even worse than that because what it really is it's a distraction tactic because they're, that they're not making our lives worse to make the lives of migrants worse. They're making migrants the scapegoat because they are profiting off. Us. And you know, when you were saying about the peasants, I think that's absolutely right. We are the workers. We are the worker bees, we're the worker ends. And people who like Farage, people like Trump and Elon Musk and all of the various people who are, you know, and Epstein and all of the people that appear in the, those files, they are manipulating society and they're manipulating markets and they're manipulating people for their own financial gain and they're their own betterment. And so they are deliberately pointing at other people to, as a way to distract. Of course, it's not the migrant's fault that, you know. Food prices are high in the uk that's absolutely ridiculous. And yet it's so easy to fall into because it's an easier answer than the real story, which is quite complex and quite difficult to explain. And nobody wants to sit and listen to it or read about it. And I think it's interesting that during times when, and I think this might have come from the documents that you shared with us, Matt from the Man Up series, but during times when things are in crisis like economic crisis or wars or general social upheaval, those are the times when the concept of masculinity hardens. Those are the times when that becomes a, a. A bigger deal and people have a sort of more defined idea of what it means to be masculine, what it means to be a man. And you know, the reality is that it is not ever been a stable thing, but it is definitely pushed in those times. And some would say that it's like a sort of panic response, a sort of societal panic response. Now I think you, I think there are people who would argue that is, that actually reinforces this idea of masculinity that, you know, in times of crisis, the true man comes out. And, you know, everyone's encouraged to be this sort of idea of what masculine is, but I think what we've discussed today demonstrates that actually it's about control. It's just about control, and it's about, and it's about making people like, so what we were talking at the start about what is masculine? Well, a man, a masculine the idea of a masculine man in my head is somebody who fights for what to protect their family, their society. It's somebody who works to protect their family and society. It's somebody who doesn't. Worry about how they are affected by these things. It's somebody who puts their emotional feelings to one side and does what they're told. So, if we think about this, then that's a worker bee, you know, that's exactly what you want. You want a man who is gonna go to war and fight for you and do what you tell him to do. You want somebody who's gonna go to work, they'll work in the mines. I mean, just this week Donald Trump was talking to a bunch of miners because he's promoting coal. And I mean, that's a whole different issue. But he was promoting coal and he was talking to a bunch of miners and he had them in the Oval Office, and they all had their mining hats on. And the Daily Show did a brilliant sketch on this. And he says to them, you know, you wouldn't be anything else. You wouldn't swap with me, you wouldn't swap with some guy living in a penthouse, you are a minor. And it's, I mean, as they pointed out in the daily show, that's utter rubbish. Of course they would, you know, like most of them would be like I could go work down the mine or I could like, you know, live in a penthouse. Yeah, not a difficult decision, but this idea that is their job because they are good men, they are hardworking men's men, and it is it, I can't see that it's anything other than control. And I think the fact that we see a sort of surge in it at times when we're in social crisis, which I think is what is happening at the moment, internationally, globally, you know, we are, we're in a state of panic. And we have been really since all the wealthy people started freaking out about what was happening to them. Money in 2008. And started realizing how much they needed to keep our eye off the ball because otherwise we were gonna realize quite what a blinder they're playing. And sadly, I've this, they seem to be doing quite a good job of it at the moment.

Tom 42:28

I completely agree, Jen. If you. Stripped away. All the kind of discussion of culture, politics, people's ideas, people's upbringing, all that stuff stood us all in a line as a society with our bank balance behind us, perhaps illustrative with actual coins, right? In a world, this is obviously not something that could happen, but imagine like one of those TV shows where they dump a bunch of stuff on a table and say, look how much you've spent in a month. Right? Do that, but with people's wealth. And then you went around with a microphone and you said, I see that mountain over there. And what, you've got two pennies to scrape together behind you. What do you think society's problems are rooted in? The answer would be staggeringly obvious that the incredible amount of inequality we've allowed to become normal is what is all, is harming us all, and the web of lies and. Mistruths and observation that the people with the money have to develop to keep people from realizing that, you know, scapegoat, migrants, scapegoats, LGBTQ plus people, scapegoats, people who don't have a job scapegoat that disabled they have had to create this gigantic disgusting pretense that all the world's problems are the fault of the people who are the most depressed. And because it's slightly easier to be like, oh yeah, that person looks different from me. I reckon they're the problem, then this person looks like me. Has a lot of money. But you know, I guess, I guess that's probably fine. It's so much more, it's so much easier to scapegoat someone who looks different than to acknowledge the gigantic mess we've made for ourselves. And have a think about politics and society and all that stuff that it's working. You know, these people control all the newspapers. I dunno, that sounds a bit tinfoil hat, doesn't it? But they do. It's the right wing. Media controls almost all of the newspapers in this country and even those that you might consider left leaning, are not really saying anything radical or you know, revolutionary. They're just slightly less racist. What we've, what has become the norm because of this wall of lies, this web of lies has just allowed people to be pointed in the wrong direction again and again. And some people, you know, some people are racist and that's'cause they're bad people. Some people are racist and I'm not excusing it'cause it's not okay. But. Because they have been bombarded with lies from the moment they're born. And it's all to keep us in the dark about the real truth. Even the Epstein papers that have come out recently has had stuff about you know, him suggesting to politicians and people with power, you wanna focus on this issue'cause that will keep people in the dark about, you know, how much money we've all got.

Matt 45:43

Yeah it's exhausting. It's exhausting. It's the matrix and it's, and then you, the second you step outside the matrix and you see. You see the world for what it is, you go, oh my God. And then you go, right? You could either just go back in the matrix and pretend everything's fine, or if you want to, you know, have to go and live in the real world and feeling like it's impossible because we can't make the society that we want just with the people that agree with us. Now, you need these other people,