Gaming the Side Quests (Episode 284)

This week Jem, Alex, and Matt go hunting for the side quests that quietly steal the show — the optional detours where some of gaming's best writing and its most surprising characters tend to hide. Expect judgment calls in Dragon Age: Inquisition, an unexpectedly moving Ghost of Tsushima storyline, a Witcher 3 legend, lots of Split Fiction love and a very earnest defence of in-game fishing.

Episode-specific hashtags: #SideQuests #DragonAgeInquisition #GhostOfTsushima #TheWitcher3 #BaldursGate3 #SplitFiction #DeathStranding

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Transcript

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Jem: Today we are going to talk about side quests. The main story of games gets all of the headlines, all of the love and attention, but actually some of the real depth in games can come from the side quests. When we talked about our open world episode, we talked a lot about endless side quests — the ones where it's just “go here, get this, come back and give this to so-and-so” — and it can be tedious and boring.

Jem: So we're not gonna talk about those ones today. What I wanted to do was ask you to just share some of the side quests that have really inspired you when you've been gaming, or that you've felt have really given an opportunity for a different story to be heard, or for a particular character to suddenly step into the limelight.

Jem: Have there been any times where you've felt that the side quests themselves — or a particular side quest — has really shone out a little bit more than the main story itself? So I thought I would share one of mine, from Dragon Age: Inquisition — the ones where you have to decide the punishment of the various people you've gathered or collected during the game.

Jem: So for those who haven't played Dragon Age: Inquisition, go and play it. You go off, you do your quests, things happen, and you make decisions about fighting people or bribing people, or various other political decisions. And sometimes that means you take certain people into custody, and once you do that, you get the option to sit in judgment over them and decide what their punishment will be — and this has a knock-on effect on other aspects of the game. So it's a really fun way to feel like the decisions you're making elsewhere in the game are actually relevant, and that you're taking on the ruling role your character has been given.

Jem: For me, the sitting-in-judgment side quests within Dragon Age: Inquisition just really gave another level, another layer of depth within the game. So that's the sort of thing I'm talking about. Do either of you want to pitch in with any of your thoughts on your experiences in side quest world?

Matt: It's such a shame — how rich and wonderful the original Dragon Age was, compared to... I can't even remember its name, the latest one that just ruined it and burned everything down. Was it Veilguard, I think?

Matt: The philosophy of this is a really interesting thing — it's gonna be light and fluffy because we're talking about things we love about games, but it's actually quite an important philosophical part of game design. The main quest is like the leading actor in a movie or TV show, and the side quest is the supporting cast. The main character is enhanced by the surrounding cast, and the gaming environment is the same. You can have your main quest, but if the bits around it aren't compelling or fun or interesting, it sours the main quest. Whereas the main quest — the story they care about most — has to be the best story, that's a given, that's supposed to be the best thing in the game. But when you apply that same level of quality to the side quests, that's when it elevates — like a rising tide floats all boats, and it elevates the main quest too. Basically, in good games, the side quests feel like main quests.

Matt: So in things like Dragon Age, Mass Effect, the Fallout games — your companion quests, Baldur's Gate 3 — these are ones you can completely skip. That's what I think of as a side quest: you can completely skip them and finish the game. And when you have something like Astarion's side mission, his backstory, his quest — one of the best companion quests I've ever seen, because of the journey he goes on from when you meet him to where he finishes — if you can capture something like that over the course of an entire game...

Matt: One thing that frustrates me about some side missions is when they're locked behind main mission progression. Like in Batman: Arkham Knight, you've got the Most Wanted side missions, and you can do a bit of them, but then you can't do any more until you've progressed further in the story. That's good for the game and the pacing, but... yeah, so that's my initial thoughts.

Jem: I think that's really interesting actually, because one of the other things I was thinking about with regards to quests and side quests is that when you have a major, big-deal story going on and you're like, “I will go and deal with that, but first I'm gonna go over here and help this person with their village,” or something minor — it sort of feels a bit incongruous. It impacts the flow of the main story and minimizes the relevance, I think, of the smaller quest, because you start feeling like, “oh, I've just gotta get these all out of the way.” But as you say, Matt, there's also an issue with having side quests locked behind main quest progress. So I think it's really important to get the balance right, so that they complement the main story or give depth to the world, rather than feeling at odds with it or confusing things.

Alex: ...introducing Masako, from Ghost of Tsushima. You think it'll only be like three missions or whatever, and you're done, but actually it unfolds — you can make it run basically the course of the whole game, in terms of the playtime of the main quest. I can't remember if it's locked behind the main story — a little bit, because it does depend on which parts of the map you unlock, and where Lady Masako is, and how to get to her.

Alex: I think the narrative arc of Lady Masako's character is something that's really more in-depth than you initially expect, and it goes in directions you don't necessarily expect with a side quest character. It's incredibly emotional, and incredibly thought-provoking as a quest line, I think. I don't want to spoil it in case anyone hasn't played it — but the character I'm talking about, Lady Masako, is a noblewoman whose family have essentially all been killed by a particular enemy. She's seeking revenge on the murderer, or murderers, of her family, and as time goes on you get to understand more about her family, the family that died, and the person she feels is responsible, and how that plays out.

Alex: But I think what's important, in terms of side quests representing characters you don't often see, is that she's a much older woman — I'd say probably in her 40s or 50s, but at the time it's set, maybe 60s. She's quite active and spry, you know.

Matt: Yeah — a critical part of that quest is, you're quite right about her age. The point of her entire family being gone is that she's too old to start again.

Matt: It's about... it's again the philosophy of legacy — this is explored in Star Trek with Captain Picard: [go back] to Earth and restart the family, otherwise “I'll be the last, I'm the last Picard.” But then he comes to the conclusion that legacy takes more than one form — it's not just about family carrying on. That's rarely, awesomely explored in... have you seen Bridge on the River Kwai? Absolute masterpiece. The British colonel has that exact same quandary, and you find meaning in your life again when what you thought was your legacy is taken away. That's the side quest.

Alex: But yeah, as Matt was saying, it's a perspective you don't often see, and it explores emotions — obviously grief being a chief emotion, but also persistence, determination. She's a very strong character, perhaps to the point of stubbornness, which I think is also explored — whether it's right that she continues on this quest, whether she's actually doing herself, and others, potentially more harm by seeking revenge. Which again is also paralleled in the main quest. So you've kind of got two different sides of it going on as well. I just really can't praise it enough — I think it's wonderful.

Jem: That's really interesting, what both of you have said. I mean, I haven't played it, so it's... but it's things like that which inspire me to play these kinds of games. I actually wanted to ask you both — have you both played Witcher 3?

Alex: I have played it.

Jem: When I was looking into this for the episode, one of the ones that kept coming up in all my research was the Bloody Baron questline in Witcher 3. I haven't played Witcher 3 — I tried to start but couldn't get past the tutorial, maybe I need to go back and give it another go. So the Bloody Baron quest — I don't know if either of you want to explain it, or know the backstory. It's a long time ago, so my memory is hazy, and I can't recall if I even finished it — I definitely remember reading about it in-game and possibly starting it, but I feel like it's quite long — hours and hours long. Have either of you done that one?

Matt: Yeah.

Jem: It shares some parallels with the Ghost of Tsushima — the Masako quest, which I can't go into because... it could be a game in itself, this. This quest is a bit problematic — some stuff about abortion that's a bit complex, and it's got quite a bit of flak for it. But the root of it is about the role that domestic violence can play, and it's actually exploring that, putting the Witcher spin on it — it leads to monsters, terrifying witches in the woods. That's creepy. But yeah, it's talked about very often as one of the most iconic Witcher quests.

Matt: So this leads me into the narrative-based side quests, because side quests aren't just about a loop you're doing in the game. A particularly awesome one I've experienced recently was a character called Uri, from the first Spider-Man game — she's a police officer, Spider-Man's Commissioner Gordon, from Batman. They're a team, and she's this badass female cop with a soft side that lets her work with Spider-Man. But the DLC missions for the first game suddenly turn very serious — she goes after a mob boss, and the mob boss captures her and kills her entire team in front of her. The DLCs are about her descent — her belief in the system is broken, she doesn't believe in it anymore, so she becomes a vigilante, and she appears in the second game as hyper-violent, killing the criminals she goes after. Spider-Man's trying to talk her out of it, but she's certain in her beliefs. There's a fantastic line — she says, “I'd rather lose sleep over the ones I killed than the ones I didn't save.” That's a fantastic bit of writing. It makes me love that kind of narrative quest — when it's locked behind story progression, I can't wait for the next step. So yeah, that's awesome.

Jem: These quests often come from just a single sentence or something — apparently the Bloody Baron story came from a single-sentence brief, something like “Geralt meets a baron who'll trade information for a monster kill,” and it ended up being this 40-page script and a long, involved subquest. I think there's real value in having these stories that let you explore topics that might feel awkward in the main story — almost entire games in themselves — but that can be, and should be, told within the medium of video games. Having a side quest where you can really explore that can give air to a lot of the stories we talk about on the pod, that we feel should be getting more centre stage in games — maybe it's just an easier place for them to go.

Jem: Thinking that through, though — do you feel that might mean side quests are in some way devaluing the topics they're covering, because they're just side quests? Because they're not part of the main story, does that in some way say these are topics we shouldn't talk about, we don't really want to talk about, or we've just put them in as a diversity nod? Do you feel like it can undermine things, or do you think it's actually a really good way of exploring these topics within the game environment?

Alex: I can see why you're asking the question, but I think if a quest is particularly well-written — as I mentioned with Lady Masako — it won't necessarily feel like a lesser quest. If it's compelling enough for you to want to explore it, that's good enough reason to explore it. That's the key, I think, to any quest — whether it's worth exploring and worth talking about. The key is to capture the attention of the player, which can be tricky to do. But we've often discussed how often tropes come up in video games, and how common they are — it's relatively rare to feel like you're playing a game that isn't based on some kind of “oh, I've seen this before,” or “I can predict how this is gonna unfold.” And it's a nice surprise when those assumptions are actually challenged and changed.

Jem: Yeah, I think you're right. I think it's an opportunity to explore those things, but yes, it's also an opportunity for the tropes to come up again.

Jem: One of the other things that came up for me was the side stories in Split Fiction. So, without giving too much away, the main storyline runs between the two protagonists' preferred genres — one prefers fantasy, the other prefers sci-fi — so you alternate between their two stories through the game. During each one, you're able to then step into a side story that belongs to the other person. So in the middle of the fantasy story, you might step into a little sci-fi story, or vice versa. I really liked that, partly because it was a genre break in the middle, and partly because I think it really leant into this idea that there was a divide in their approach to the world — these two women who have very different ideas of what makes for good writing.

Jem: Within those side stories was where the game explored a lot of differences, and a lot of technically different ways of playing — you'd get to play as though you were in a platformer, or run around as pigs, all sorts of fun stuff. The stories themselves were very self-contained, usually from when the characters were younger, or related to a very specific event, so it gave you a bit more depth to the characters. They were optional on each level. For me, I liked that because the whole game is about this juxtaposition between the two women and their take on the world, and it helped to forward their story. But I can also see how that tonal shift — from “oh, we're running around in this fancy world” to suddenly racing on snowboards — could feel jarring. What did you guys feel about that?

Matt: That was where I came and subbed in when they were struggling, and a couple of times they'd be in the side quests.

Alex: I was gonna bring up the—

Matt: The main compelling thing is that a side quest is like a mini-game of a different type — there's a snowboarding one, a candy land one, a fabulous one where you're traversing across some giants who are carrying you across the environment. I think Split Fiction is quite unique in that it's jarring, because it's completely different game styles each time. I really love when a game has such good gameplay that it's just incredibly satisfying doing missions that involve just one aspect of it. In Assassin's Creed Syndicate, I went through all of the fight clubs — it was so satisfying, the combat was so satisfying. I don't understand what happens when you grab someone by the face and rub it, but I have no idea what that's meant to do. And then there's finding all the Leaps of Faith in Assassin's Creed. A big one is the Valkyries from God of War — just those boss battles were incredible. The story is secondary, it's the gameplay that's the core of it. So that's another role side missions can play.

Alex: Valkyries actually as well, Matt. But in terms of Split Fiction, I really, really enjoyed the little side quests — I looked out for them in every main mission, like “which one's gonna be next?” Because every time they're so different to what you've been doing before, it's always such a surprise — what's it gonna be this time, what kind of game are we gonna play, what kind of world are we gonna be in? It was a very clever narrative device too, because it was as if they were exploring little snippets of childhood trauma — an interesting thing to think about, like in therapy, when you talk about something from when you were six that you had no idea was gonna come up in the session, but actually means everything and underpins a lot of stuff, when actually all it was, was your fear of the dentist, for example — and that dentist boss, with his teeth, was pretty scary. Some pretty creepy boss fights in a lot of these, they're all quite traumatic.

Alex: But yeah, I really loved the way the game showcased all these different gameplay styles — side scrollers, bullet hell, sorts of different things going on. I think it's a unique space to experiment, not only from the developer's point of view, but also from a player who may not necessarily be a hardcore gamer — they can experiment with all these different types of gameplay and go, “oh, I really liked this type,” or “I found this one really challenging,” so you get to know, “oh, what other types of games are like this?” It's a really cool way of exploring that.

Alex: And then you mentioned the Valkyries — I think there's a genre of side quest which is almost like a challenge quest, where you can challenge yourself. It's not necessarily to do with progressing the story or the main missions, it's like a little side something where, if you want to do it, you can, or you can leave it and come back later and try again. But yeah, the Valkyries were amazing — there's an equivalent in Ragnarok, I forget what they're called, but they're like ghostly warriors.

Matt: Berserkers.

Alex: Berserkers, thank you, Matt — they were epic fighters as well, and the rewards are excellent. I think that's one of the key things about challenge quests: what do you get at the end of it, how's that gonna benefit you through the main quest? And it really is a useful benefit, without spoiling anything. I really like the options you have there as well, for sure.

Jem: I think there's a lot to be said for being rewarded for stepping off the main path. I've always felt that if I'm in an open world or semi-open world game, and I make my way all the way up a mountain and round a corner, I want there to be something there for me — some sort of reward, because I think you should reward gamers for actually being prepared to explore and get involved in what's going on in the world.

Jem: What you were saying, Alex, made me think about the idea of the completionist trap you can get into, because obviously the beauty of side quests is that they're not compulsory — you don't have to do them to complete the game. So Baldur's Gate 3, as you brought up earlier, Matt — Astarion's story was amazing, but I lost Lae'zel very early on, because of what happens in that game, which we won't say. So I never did any of her story, and I don't know any of it — I think I killed Lae'zel instead of rescuing her right at the start, so I never explored her story at all. Both of us got to the end of Baldur's Gate 3 without ever really finding out Lae'zel's story, and I think it's kind of cool that you can do that — that you can have a full, really enjoyable game without having to do everything. But I am a completionist, and I can get quite stressed when there are a lot of side quests to do, and to feel it's okay not to do them, that I can just get on with the main story. How do you guys manage that balance?

Matt: It's difficult, because there are some games where you can do all of the side quests alongside the main quest — you sort of dig into story mode. Whereas games like Baldur's Gate 3, you literally can't do everything in one playthrough, there's too much — compared to playing multiple times, or doing what I do, which is play a bit and then go back and take a break, because I don't want to waste my time playing all the way through a game, though I do have to play some games all the way through to get specific achievements.

Jem: And so with things like Elder Scrolls or Dragon Age, I'll reach a point in the game where a certain side quest has been locked off, and I go, “right, okay, I'm gonna have to start a new file to do that,” and it looks cool, but... Yeah, that's a bit disheartening, isn't it? I often feel like that.

Jem: When I'm playing a big game — like when I'm playing Ghost of Tsushima — I like to spend time doing as much of the side activities as possible, so I can see as much of it as I can. I build up skills, build up experience, get lots of cool outfits and swords, different colours, go to different dye houses and get cool green clothes and white clothes and black clothes, et cetera. And then I'll be like, “right, well, there's nothing more to do in this area of the map, guess I'll do the main quest.” But then every time I'm like, “oh, well, we're going to this area, we've already been here” once the main quest starts, and I'm like, “ah, this would've made more sense if I hadn't done it yet.” So it's a bit like we're time-limited doing side activities rather than the main story, where they overlap each other, and I always feel guilty if I spend a few months on side content instead of the main quest. Definitely.

Jem: Oh, I love that — that doesn't surprise me at all actually, Alex. I know one of your favourite games is A Little to the Left, which is all about tidying up and getting everything nice and neat, so I'm not surprised you enjoy this. I'm very similar.

Jem: So, we're just gonna wind up now, but I've wanted to share one of my favourite side quests that appears in many, many games, and that's fishing. Fishing appears in so many games that if I play a game and it doesn't have fishing in it, I'm kind of shocked and very dismayed. So do you guys have anything similar — something you see come up in a lot of games that you look for, or hope for?

Alex: Just little mini gambling games — like a coin push, or something really little, or little board games, or card games. [Section unclear in the original recording.]

Alex: ...games are boring nowadays, definitely.

Matt: Yeah, definitely — those hidden card games.

Jem: When they're not great, they're just boring.

Matt: But then when they're really good, you just sink hours into them.

Jem: One of my favourites is Queen's Blood, in Final Fantasy VII Rebirth — there are tournaments, and I love when you play your first game and they'll go, “wow, you're really good at this — there are three former champions dotted around this area, if you go and beat all of them, you can [take on the] boss.” And that's the meat of it — working out how the games work, working out how to win, and then winning is satisfying.

Jem: Occasionally you'll get a quest like that which takes up an entire... [reference unclear in the original recording] I played through it four or five times because there's an updated version of the game with an incredible narrative that takes in so many parts of it. It shouldn't exist, it doesn't make sense, but it exists, and it rocks. Awesome.

Matt: I have one more honourable mention — one of my absolute biggest things that I love: in Death Stranding, where you're building roads. There's a road system you have to learn how to build — you collect metal and ceramics to build roads, and it gives you access to an area's chiral network, which is like the internet.

Matt: You get access to a load of community elements — so like everyone else on the network — when they put a shelter down, or a station, or a post office, once you bring the network online you get access to some of those community-created elements. Where a popular area is, the community will often donate local materials to each of the roads. So if you go along the main quest, you can collect the materials and build the road fairly simply as you go along. But then when you try to build roads far off the beaten path — which is what I want to do — the amount of materials just becomes more and more prohibitive, because if a place isn't on the cargo network, you don't have access to anyone else's materials.

Matt: So I end up going through all of the places I've been to, getting all the materials I can, and then driving them down the road, adding a little bit at the end of every run before coming back. The next route is to focus even better than that — and this is gonna be even better — where they've added a monorail. Because it's set in Australia, and there are mines all over Australia, they've got a monorail that goes between the mines. So now you can build the road, build the monorail, and then ride the monorail into the mine — load on the cargo, put your cargo on, and ride on top of it.

Matt: It was just wonderfully satisfying finding out the next big place to ship to is at the far end of this monorail that I'm still managing to reach. What I need to do is go, “oh, this is a massive amount of cargo, I need to use a lorry” — load up the 500-kilogram-strength lorry and then ride it there. That was one of my absolute highlights of side quests.

Jem: Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Well, unless you've got anything else you wanna add, Alex?

Alex: No, just that I love a monorail — that's unusual. I think that's the first game I've had with a monorail in it, unless you count The Simpsons: Hit & Run.

Jem: Of course. You know, the biggest side quest of them all is real life. So we'll let everyone get back to that for a little bit. Thank you both very much, and — we're here every Thursday, we're talking games stuff. Equality, diversity, and equity are our watch words. So yeah, join us, follow us, share us, and let us know if there's anything you'd like us to talk about, and tell us what your favourite side quests are. So thank you very much. Bye.