492. Peter Liu

Email: bidemiologunde@gmail.com

In this episode of The Work Ethic Podcast, host Bidemi Ologunde sits down with comedian, actor, and martial artist Peter Liu for a conversation about culture, family, identity, and the discipline behind building a life in stand-up comedy. How does moving across cultures shape a comic's voice? When does comedy shift from instinct to craft? What does work ethic look like in a career built on rejection, timing, and constant experimentation? Bidemi and Peter explore the early influences behind his perspective, the lessons learned from open mics and bigger stages, and how he continues to sharpen his material while staying connected to the everyday observations that make his comedy resonate. Find out Peter's tour dates at https://www.peterliucomedy.com/schedule

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:45

So thank you for joining me once again on another episode of the Work Ethic Podcast. I have a special guest from up in New York. I found him on social media, reached out to him saying, Would you mind coming on? And I was like, Yeah, sure, let's do it. So over to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Yeah. Hey everyone. My name is Peter Lou. I'm a stand-up comedian, actor, martial artist. I live in New York City. I'm um touring the country right now. So, you know, if you uh you want to come check out a show, go on the website, you know, fill out the little forms, and uh it'll let you know when I'm in your city.

SPEAKER_03 1:23

Nice, nice. Thank you, thank you for that. So to jump right into it, um, when you think about your sense of humor, where does the story really begin for you? Was humor first a form of defense mechanism? Was it a social tool, or was it just pure instinct?

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Yeah, it's funny. People are like, oh, was humor a defense mechanism? Why can't it be an offensive mechanism? Okay, why can't I be the one bullying other people? Um I uh uh it was probably I don't know. I I think my I've thought about this actually. I think my dad is funny, he's like weird, but he is funny. Like I can't deny his humor. You know how like people don't like Trump, but you can't deny that he's still funny, you know? Yep. It's kind of kinda like one of those scenarios. So when I look back, I'm like, no, he's still funny. I mean, you know, he's not very nice to me, but he's definitely funny. Like so, I think I think that's that's I probably get a little bit from him, and then um I don't know, probably like family dynamics, maybe a little bit the the defensive thing you say, because uh you you you can use humor to kind of like um make situations comfortable, you know. Like some sometimes if you're in an uncomfortable situation, you can diffuse it with humor. So there's probably a little piece of that, a little piece that's hereditary, but also I just like comedy, my I I enjoy comedy, it like makes you feel good, you know. Like I grew up watching a lot of sitcoms, I watched a lot of specials and stuff like that. Um, yeah, comedy is great. Who doesn't like to laugh? You know, it's fun exactly.

SPEAKER_03 2:56

That's that's what I was gonna actually chime in to say that. Well, on some days after work is you know, work has been crazy all day, and then the kids have gone to bed, and I just like you know, turn on something on maybe even YouTube. There are so many specials on YouTube nowadays, not just Netflix and Hulu and all the fancy ones. And I just turn something on, and then my wife's like, What are you watching? I'm like, Well, I found some comedy, and then she's like, Who am I watching? I'm like, I really don't know. I just I literally search for stand-up comedy and I go by the duration and okay, something long enough, not like a 10-minute clip or a 15-minute clip, and then I just start watching. And at the beginning it shows the name, but maybe I wasn't paying attention, I was doing something on my phone, and then I wait till the thing starts, and then I start to listen, and I'm laughing, I'm crying, laughing, and then my wife goes, Oh wow, this is actually a good one. And I'm like, Well, you're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

You're like, I introduced this to you.

SPEAKER_03 3:52

Yeah, yep, yep. So it's one of those things where it's it's like a medicine to put it that way.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

Instead of you know doing something that would lead to a bad habit to deal with stress, uh you might as well laugh, and distress is dealing with itself the the natural way, so for sure, yeah. Another question I have for you is uh you've moved across different cultures, you've moved across different physical locations. So, what did moving teach you about how people perform identity?

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Uh well, I think I moved relatively young, so I don't know if I can answer how people perform, but I can I think what I can answer is that if you move around a lot when you're a kid, it does give you a different perspective on on uh kind of like people's viewpoints, which I think is is good. So that's the pro. The con is like you kind of like if you move around a lot, you don't maintain long-term relationships as well. That that would be the con. But the pro is like if if you live in like the same city your whole life, you probably have relatively similar views to the people around you. So it's good to uh observe different cultures and different contexts and kind of just see like what everyone defines as normal, and then if you move around, you're like, oh well, people do things differently here, and it's not necessarily like a right or wrong, it's just like people are products of their environment, and then you can kind of figure out for yourself because I've moved around, I was in like China, Australia, New Zealand, and then eventually I like came to the US, it was like New Jersey, New York, New England, Boston. Every place has their own flavors, whether it's within the same country or across different nations, different cultures. But it's good to have, I think, varying perspectives, so you don't so get so siloed in, you know, like to like one way of thinking. Like uh I I know people who like grew up in like one spot, and that's that's like you can kind of guess their thoughts without knowing them, which is like you know, kind of like more tribal mentality. Uh, I think it's more interesting to have unique perspectives, so you can kind of like gauge for yourself. You're like, oh, why do they do things this way? Why do they do like what what actually makes sense, you know? Wow, wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:11

And that's actually something I've never really thought about it that way. Me myself, I'm originally from Nigeria. I came to the US 13 years ago, and I've lived here for I've lived in Florida for that much time. But then during my I came for grad school. While I was in grad school, I made it a point of duty to visit as many places as possible across the US.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:37

And I would book flights in advance, just you know, as a broke student. I made sure I was traveling as cheaply as possible, just me and my backpack, no need to check any luggage. Yeah, and before you knew it, over a period of three to four years, I visited all 50 states.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_03 6:53

I just like traveling through, I you know, stayed in a city and then moved around, drive around, visit other nearby cities. That's how I covered a lot of New England and New York, New Jersey areas. Every state. Yeah, that's all those states where some major cities are not too far from each other, and then the ones that are more spread out, it took a longer time, including Alaska and Hawaii. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Which state has the ugliest woman?

SPEAKER_03 7:24

I forgot I was talking to a comedian.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

No, continue, continue. You don't have to answer that. I already know what it is. No, but keep going.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

So at the end of the four years, Idaho.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

Anyways, keep going. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:37

At the end of the four years, I was like, hmm, I've actually covered every possible culture, every possible uh tribal setup in the US. And what you were just describing, saying you can tell how someone would approach an issue before they say a word.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:58

If you know that uh they didn't really move outside of where they were born, and it's like, okay, well, someone from uh the panhandle in Florida would think this way. Someone from the Pacific Northwest, up in Seattle, Oregon area, they would kind of think this way. Someone from Chicago, Indiana area uh would approach this same topic this particular way. So it's interesting to see all of that, you know, uh nuances, especially the more traveled you are, the more you can approach like you're doing. It shows up in everything we do, just yeah, our exposure.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

It shows up in how you think and how you perceive the world, and it's like I think it's just it's good to have more perspectives because it gives you more options, so you don't have like a single thought process, and you're like, Oh, this is it. It probably makes life simpler for those people, but it's a it's like it's a very narrow-minded way of viewing things and perceiving things, I think. I don't know. Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:00

So before you ever thought about doing stand-up, um, who in your family, I know you mentioned your dad earlier. Was there anyone else in your family who was already teaching you about timing and tension and storytelling?

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I come from an Asian family. That the storytelling, timing, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. They were just like, go become a doctor, go become a doctor, go become an engineer, go do go study really, really, really hard. And I did that. Like I I did that for a while and until I was like, I want to do my own thing. You know what I mean? And uh I uh I worked in like I I went to school for engineering. I um I I worked in like uh biotech for like over a decade and then I just quit. And then I was like and then I now I'm doing stand-up because I'm just like see the th here's the thing with the with the Asian parents there's no there's no finish line, they'll never be happy. It's impossible. Right. Do you know what I mean? They're like, oh, do this, and you do it. And it's like, oh now do this, and then do this. And you're like, oh well, at some point I have to live my life, right? I can't just keep letting you dictate what I want to do, you know what I mean? So it's like um, and I mean good on the Asians that do do that. I hope you're happy and fulfilled, and I hope your parents love and are proud of you. They probably don't, but you know, like they probably like you better than mine like mine, you know what I mean? But it's just like some of I mean some of them are are are a little more chilled out, I think, but the ones that are like still like grew up in in in Asia and like just came here, a lot of them are very like still Confucian in their values and the ideal system, so it's very like very rigid, very hierarchical, right? So it's just like it's I think the work ethic is good. I just think you should have the freedom to apply the work ethic to something that you actually want to do.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

I don't think work ethic is bad. I think work ethic is good. I think it's more like making people be like, oh, you can only do this, you can only do this. These are what I find acceptable. I'm like, there's actually a whole world out there that you don't know about. Like they this is comes back to kind of what we were talking about earlier. It's like they come from one culture, they move to a different place, but maybe they don't assimilate to that culture very well, so they still have the ideas of a previous one. And uh I'm pretty sure like they don't even know like they don't know half the jobs out there, you know what I mean, that actually exist. I'm like, you can make a living in so many different ways, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 11:28

Like making furniture, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

You could you yeah, this so many jobs that are out, there's so many industries, there's so many, like I don't know, they're like so focused on like the super Asian ones are very focused on like oh get into like a really name brand Ivy League school, and then you ask them, you're like, Oh, can you name the Ivy League schools? Bro, they don't even know the schools, it's just an idea, they don't know the fucking schools. Like, if you ask them to okay, go ahead, name all of them.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Do you know them? They're like, No, I don't fucking know how many there are. You know what I mean? So it's like it's stupid shit like that.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

I don't I actually can relate to that because Nigerian parents, I want to say African parents, but I can only speak about Nigerian parents because I happen to have Nigerian parents. Well, guess what? I have become a Nigerian-American parent as well. So that mentality of you have to do something that would guarantee a good future. Well, that thinking is nothing wrong with that thinking. However, the kid gets to school and gets distracted. The kid is doing engineering at Yale or Harvard or Stanford, but then they get distracted, they get into all sorts of trouble, and maybe they don't graduate or they graduate bottom of their class, and no company is even taking a second look at that kid. Then what happens? Because you made the kid go to engineering at Harvard, but then they cannot make heads or tails of that engineering degree, or maybe they even went ahead and got an an MD PhD in a medical school somewhere in New England.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

And now they start doing comedy, and now they're they're good again. Um, yeah, there's a lot of those cases, man, because those kids burn out too. I mean, like the stuff that they want is really hard. Like MD PhD programs, that's really hard. You know what I mean? That's like that's like eight years of your life, you know what I mean? That's that's so many. I like look, if you want to do that, great, go do it, but make sure you want to do it. But a lot of these kids are just being bullied into doing it by their parents, you know what I mean? And their parents, they don't even know how hard that shit is. They're just like, why are you failing?

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Why are you sad? Study harder.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

Other people are doing it. Why can't you do it?

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Yeah, other people, it's like, bitch, did you do it? If you did it, I wouldn't have to be in this situation. Why can't you be like that white parent who already has a successful business? Huh?

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Well, I gotta fucking carry the family household now. What are you doing out here?

SPEAKER_03 13:54

Oh my god. Wow. I wasn't I wasn't prepared for this much, you know, engagement and laughing, and um I have tears in my eye in my eyes right now. Okay, okay. So when you look back now, um, were there some early moments where people around you started noticing that you saw everyday life differently?

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Uh yeah, I I don't know if they noticed that I saw life differently, so much as like I noticed that I saw life differently. Because when you move around a lot, you know, people pick up on where you're different, right? So it's like uh even like moving from like Australia and New Zealand, obviously moving from China to a Western country, that's huge. You have to learn English, Western, Eastern philosophies are usually completely contradictory, they're like the opposite ends of spectrums, you know what I mean? So that's that's that's pretty big. But even like if going from like Australia to New Zealand, they're like right next to each other. You would think they would be like similar, and they are, but they still don't like each other for some reason. You know what I mean? So they're like when I I had an Australian accent when I was living in Australia, and I went when I was in New Zealand, they have their own accent, it's a new it's a Kiwi accent, and they would they like make fun of Australian accents, they're like say fish and chips, yum yum me. I was like, I was like, bitch, you also talk stupid, okay? You both talk stupid down here, alright?

SPEAKER_00 15:22

I'm just I'm just adopting the local, what is considered acceptable amount of stupid to talk English in.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Okay? Fuck both of you.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

I speak American, which is the true English. The British have no idea what they're doing. Anyway, uh it's like it's something like that, you know?

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Like kids will be like, yeah, then it's like, oh, you speak a little differently, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I feel like, yeah, when you move around, you're like kind of forced to adapt and assimilate. And every time you're forced to assimilate, you yourself notice the things that are different. Because like people point it out, and then you like kind of like naturally adapt sometimes, and sometimes you like uh think about how you're adapting. Like, I think when I came to the US, I have a New Zealand accent at this point, and um a Kiwi accent, and this is like first week of school, and uh everyone they were like, Why I was like, I don't know, how old was that? It was like 14, 15, and they're like, Why do you sound 27? I'm like, This is just how people talk in New Zealand, you know, this is the accent, you know. Um and I was talking to some some kid and he asked me, Oh, how's it going? And I'm like, I'm bored. And uh he didn't know what that meant, you know. He was like, What are you saying? Yeah, I'm like, I'm bored. And he was like, What are you saying? And I was like, Oh, right, you have to have to change how I speak. I'm bored. And then and then he understood what I was saying, like because you have to announce to it that like R really hard in the US. That's something I consciously realized because it's like in you i the other accents is kind of like lazy, you know? Like uh, go faster. I want my burger. You can kind of be lazy with that R at the end, but uh in America, you have to like you have to like you have to, otherwise people don't know what you're talking about. So it's like little little things like that. Wow, wow.

SPEAKER_03 17:10

Uh for me, I mean, coming from Nigeria, it's the same English, but different accents, of course. People say the older you come to a new country, the less likely you are to lose your native accent, which is true. I still speak with my I guess I don't hear it anymore, but people say I have an accent, which I know I have an accent.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Yeah, you have an accent.

SPEAKER_03 17:31

There is no reason.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

I can't confirm. No, you're good.

SPEAKER_03 17:36

There's there's no reason for me to attempt to change it as long as you can understand what I'm saying to you and I can understand what you're saying to me. Uh I can speak to anyone, even people that have thicker accents than I do from uh East Asia or Southern India, and we're speaking English and we're talking and conversing. Well, that's maybe because I listen to tons of podcasts and tons of radio from uh non-native speakers of English, that has even trained me more to be able to understand all types of accents. Sometimes my wife and I go out somewhere and we're listening to someone, maybe it's on the um drive-thru. I can hear exactly everything the person is asking me, and I'm replying. And she's like, You can hear her? I'm like, Yeah, I can hear her. She's speaking English, and they're like, No kidding. So it's like, I don't know, maybe exposure plays a role in Yeah, probably is your wife Nigerian too? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

Okay, did she come before grad school?

SPEAKER_03 18:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same way I came. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

You're like, hey, you need to study harder. If I can do it, you can do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

Um but no, I I do think, yeah, if you're you can probably understand other accents a little bit better when you when you uh when you hear them a lot, you know what I mean? Or if you have one yourself too. I also think it's hard to change an accent when you're like older. I think I was only able to do it because I was like young, you know? I was able to like kind of like still like like I can't do a good Australian accent now, even though I I like actually had one. Do you know what I mean? Like I had one for like four years, but now if people are like, Oh, do an Australian accent, and I'll be like, it'll sound stupid. You know, like I might, I don't know, fucking whatever.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

So what was that first point when comedy became something you had to pursue rather than just something you were thinking you could do?

SPEAKER_01 19:55

Had to pursue, I don't know if I ever I wanted to pursue it, but I was kinda like I was doing it along with my like day job, you know. I was still working at the time, and uh this was probably like seven, eight years ago. Um and yeah, I was just like, oh, this is something I want to like you can't just quit your job and do stand-up because when you start stand-up you suck. As as you do with when you start at anything, you're just bad at it. No one's gonna pay to see someone who's learning to play the piano, you know what I mean? Like it doesn't make any sense. So uh I just I started doing that and I enjoyed it. So I I I think I figured pretty early that I wanted to like do something different because uh we talked about like choices, right? Um I think when you um when you grow up maybe in an immigrant household, you don't have as many choices. This idea of choices and freedom is very much uh more of a Western Americanized concept, you know what I mean? Having the ability to choose what you want to do. So I think early in my life I was just kind of following, it's like, oh, your parents said you do this. I'm like, okay, I'll do it. You know what I mean? You want to do this? Do this. Okay, I'm doing it. And then I think eventually I got to a point where I like maybe became sentient as a human. And I was like, oh, I can make my own choices, maybe. Um and I was just like, oh, like what do I enjoy doing? I was like, oh, I like comedy, I like traveling, you know, I like making people laugh. I like like doing things. I don't like working for other people. I like I think I want to I do things for myself. And then when you start doing stuff for yourself, you're like, oh wow, it's so much easier to work for other people. Um but it's so much more to do, you know what I mean? Like when you work for other people, you don't have to care as much. You're like ha ha ha, they're gonna pay me either way. If I do poorly, my boss looks bad, I'll be okay. But if you work for yourself and you're like, wow, I have to care a hundred percent about everything, you know. Like if you're working on you know, writing, promoting, marketing, video editing, whatever it is, everything is like okay, well, now you have to like care a hundred percent. Um but yeah, uh I don't uh back to your original question. I kind of went on a tangent there about uh being forced. I don't think I was forced to do comedy, I chose to do comedy, and I was like, I need to get better at it to a point where if I wanted to do just comedy, you know, I can I'm good enough that people want to come see me and I can sell tickets and then I can actually like make a living off of it instead of just like being something that I do on the side.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

Nice, nice. So you mentioned how the first time you do something, you're gonna suck at it, and I 100% believe that. My very first episode on I was describing to you how I have another podcast, which is the the much longer one. So I started that in January of 2021. I still go back and listen to episode one now. Oh, you're brave, and it sucks so much that I cringe.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:50

Who is this person talking?

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Yo, get this guy off the air.

SPEAKER_03 22:55

Yeah. Every time I listen, I'm tempted to. Record over it to replace, and I'm like, no, I can't do that. That's like nah. I want my kids to listen to that episode one. I said, Dad used to talk like this back in the day. I'm like, yeah, that's what happens when you start something for the first time.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

100%. I uh I watched the old stand-up clip of me in my first year, like first three months, I think. I was like, this is so well. Here's here's a fun bit. So, like, when you start doing stand-up, you like you you're excited and you want to like invite your friends to come see you, right? Yeah, and your friends are usually nice that they'll come see you at least once, yeah. And so they'll come and then you suck because you just started. Yep. And they're like, Yeah, that was like not good. And like comedians is it's like, yo, but this from from our perspective, it's like, yo, you guys are shitty friends, okay? This is my dream that I'm trying to fucking pursue, and you all suck. But now when you when you go back and you watch yourself, you're like, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

They were correct, they were a hundred percent correct. If I saw that guy today, I'm like, no, bro, keep your day job. What are you doing? This is you're terrible at this.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

Wow. Wow. So back in the day, were you more scared of bombing or being ignored or being average?

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Uh back in the day versus now, I don't know. Um, I think in the beginning yeah, you're scared of bombing, but bombing is mostly what you do. So it's it's I don't know that scared is the right word so much as uh uh what's the what's the what's the right word there? It's not scared, it's just like the feeling of bombing doesn't feel good. So maybe it is scared. Maybe you just don't want to bomb, but it it just happens a lot. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 24:53

You just like right off the stage, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Yeah, like you can't control the fact that you're gonna bomb. Like I think that's also like in the beginning, everyone you're all gonna bomb. But even like uh established comedians bomb. No one no one is bomb-proof because if you're bombing is is uh is uh a byproduct of trying something new. So like when you're in the beginning, you're trying something new, so you suck a lot. So your bomb to non-bombs is very high. But if you're a a good comedian and you're established, maybe you're 10, 20 years in, you still bomb. It's just like you're now bombing when you try new material. You're better at writing, so your first draft is gonna be way better than the guy who just started, but it's still first draft, right? So it's like bombing as a concept is inevitable because you're taking a risk when you try something new. And every time you take a risk, there's a chance you're gonna fail. So I think it's better to view bombing uh as data instead of like uh feeling all as an emotion because you do feel all of it as an emotion, and as an emotion, it feels bad, but it's like just know that you're like the feeling's really bad. Yeah, the crowd hates you, and you know, you're you're like, this is what I find is funny. This is this is this is an essence a part of myself, and they're like, No, this is not it, bruh. And uh but I it is data, it's just you now you know it's like yo, this doesn't work. Go back, go change it, go edit it, make it different, try again, you know. So if you view it that way as data, it doesn't hurt you as much. Right, still hurts, just less. Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:30

And that's that's how I approach every interview I do, even now, five years later, and every monologue episode I do, and then I'm sounding some words differently. And I was describing to my friend the other day saying, You hear an episode I do now and it sounds perfect. To me, there was a pause around the 12-minute mark that was one second longer than usual. I noticed that. They probably after I finish recording and editing, I I can't go back and change it because it's just one extra second. But I now know that because I have uh 500 episodes to compare myself to.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

So that the next episode, now I know what a pause sounds like when I'm recording in real time.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:19

But that nuance detail, uh I wouldn't have been able to think about that on episode one because I was literally starting out. Yeah, I was thinking, how hard could it be to speak into a microphone? Well, guess what? It is very hard. Yes, it is as you as you might attest to. So it's like the the more experienced you become, the more crafty you can. It's like when someone is making a funny a piece of furniture, and then they start sanding one particular edge for like two hours, and then you're like, why are you sanding that edge so much? Well, they are not a novice furniture maker. Paying attention to that tiny corner, yeah, it's like the difference between a$200 piece of chair and a$2,000 piece of chair.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:06

Because it's gonna affect so many other parts of that one chair, so they pay attention to it now, so they don't have to pay attention later.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Yeah, it's uh yeah, yeah, I guess it's like it's nuanced thinking, and after repeated failure and repetition, you just you have more knowledge, so you know what to look for and where not to fuck up, basically. So that's I think a good way to approach most uh times when you uh fail at something, because it's like I think people look at failure here kind of everywhere as just like oh like you're bad, but most people are too scared to even try, and I think that's actually what's scared is when you don't try because you're so afraid of failure. I'm like, you can't be so afraid of the failure that you're unwilling to try because the process of getting better requires that you fail a lot. Yep, yeah. And uh I do Brazilian jujitsu, right? So like one of the things they say about Brazilian jujitsu, I've been doing it for like 12 years, is they're like a black the difference between a black belt and a white belt is like people are like, oh, the black belt's way better than the white belt. Like, yes, but the difference is really that the black belt has failed more times than the white belt has even attempted. You know what I mean? They failed more times than this white belt has even tried. That's the real difference. Like this person has failed millions of times, this white belt has failed maybe once or twice because they just started. So, like instead of measuring by success, you can actually measure by how many times have they failed. And the person that's failed the most, in the end, will have also succeeded the most.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

Nice, nice, wow. So your material often draws from family and culture and dating and basically everyday absurdity. Um, how do you decide what's a joke, what's a story, and what is still too raw and still needs, you know, some maneuvering?

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Hmm. Uh I think everything is uh starts off as the kind of an idea. Um everything requires maneuvering. I uh none of it just none of it is just like, oh, this is funny. Like right off the bat. Very few, I would say. Very few things are just like, oh, this is funny. I think. The stuff that I do, I know some people like to do like political stuff or observational stuff. I don't do as much of that, I don't think. Uh simply because I don't care. But uh no. Uh I I think it's the stuff that I do tend to be tends to be more personal because I think it's like I need to have a strong emotion behind it to want to write about it. See what I mean? Whether that's like sadness, happiness, anger, rage, whatever that emotion is, if I have that behind it, then I can like I can pull more out of myself. Like uh like I have a bit about um uh like how Asian parents don't say I love you. You know, it's like I mean that's like a thing they don't say, they don't verbalize it, but they they do other things to kind of express it, you know, like they'll like Asian moms like to ask you, like, have you eaten yet? You know, that's that's a thing, you know? Um so like that's like uh at the and then I have a whole premise about how like you know that's accepted. I'm like I'm okay with this because you know, culturally it's not a thing. And then I tell a story about how like once I like came home and mom my mom and I were like we're eating, she's like, Oh, why don't we FaceTime your sister? Uh and at the time my sister was about to like graduate from college, and uh at the very end of the end of the FaceTime, my mom said to her, I love you, and then my sister said it back, and I was like, What what the fuck what the fuck just happened? And and my sister's like, ooh, you don't get that?

SPEAKER_00 31:45

I'm like, no, I don't get that. This is a Chinese household. The fuck you of course no one's supposed to get that. So then I had to like call her up. I'm like, yo, how long has this I love you shit been happening behind my back?

SPEAKER_01 31:57

And she was like, you know, calm down, it's only been a year. I'm like, a year? You've been fucking receiving white people love for a whole year? This is this is crazy, you know. And the bid keeps going, I won't do the whole thing, but it's just like it's a it's the emotion is what what like like pull me the what the fuck moment is what uh why I wrote about this. I was like, because I was okay with it. I was like, oh, you guys are incapable of expressing this feeling, it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

You're all just like, oh, you can do it, you you could do this whole time and you excluded me? Now that is fucked. Yeah, I mean now we have a problem.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

Yeah, so it's stuff it's like stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

Yeah, yeah, that was that was really good. So your writing process right now, are you more of a notebook person or a voice note, or do you just riff on stage, or do you rewrite stuff at home?

SPEAKER_01 32:51

Uh yeah, I think I I start with an idea. I'll like write as much as I can. I pull out of that feeling, like how I feel about a subject, maybe try to hit it from different angles, and then I try it on stage a bunch of times, and then um even that bit that that's like the beginning of a bit that I did, that took like maybe a couple years, maybe a whole year, to get it to the point where I felt like oh, this is like good. Um yeah, I I I write I write a lot. Uh one of the things I think that's like under um uh I don't know, people don't talk about a lot is like uh if you do multiple sets in a night, you can kind of edit in between the sets. You can change words in between. If I do three different shows, I can change I can see how the first show goes, and then I might have an idea. That creativity kind of like sparkles while you're in between shows. You because you're like in that like mode, like your brain is just on the what right wavelength, and you kind of think of new stuff, and you can try it in the next show, and then and then you come back and you listen to all of it, and then you kind of like write again, and you're like, Oh, how do I refine this? Oh, this worked, this didn't work. Um yeah, I I I do most of my writing, I think like there's stuff that just comes to you, and then there's like I sit down and listen to it and I try to write more. Uh, and sometimes I think when I go on stage, I know Bill Bird does this where he'll he has an idea and he knows the beginning of how he wants to do it, and he knows the end, and he doesn't write the middle, he's just like, I'm gonna freestyle it and see see what comes out. Uh, I don't think we're good enough for that to happen yet, but it'll be nice because like people talk about writing on stage versus writing off stage. Uh to me that's just called writing off stage or being lazy. But dude, if you're able to do just ride on stage and shit just comes out to you, good for you, man. That's great. Maybe I'm just not good enough to do that yet. Maybe give it another decade and I can just like go on stage and everything I say is just magical. Yeah. I know Chappelle does that though. Chappelle does that. Chappelle, but he's been doing this for like forever, and also he has unlimited stage time. This guy will just pop into clubs and just do four hours. You know what I mean? No other person is allowed to do that. So if you talk for four hours, I'm sure stuff is gonna come out. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

That's who I was actually gonna ask about saying. Do you think um Chappelle or um what's this guy from the UK? I forget his name. He did a Christmas special sometime last year, a crowd work. They call him a crowd work specialist.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

From the UK?

SPEAKER_03 35:28

Yeah, he's British, he's young. I forget his name.

SPEAKER_01 35:32

Young British guy. Yeah. The only crowd work guy that I can think of recently was Matt Reif, but he's American.

SPEAKER_03 35:39

Oh, okay. That's who I had in mind. I thought he was British.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

No, no, he's he's American. He was on like BT Walling Out, he was on that stuff, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:48

Yeah, yeah. So would you describe him as someone who also reefs on stage or no? Uh who?

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Myself?

SPEAKER_03 35:55

Matt Matt Reif.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Yeah, Matt Reif uh does uh mostly crowd work. Okay. He does like mostly crowd work. He doesn't I mean he riffs too, yeah. But most of his specials are they're called crowd work specials. I think there's a Christmas one, like you said. Yeah, that was like, yeah. He I think it's crowd work, but he has an idea like of topics that he wants to talk about. Because I I watched that one. Actually, I enjoyed that one. He was like, I want to talk about dreams. Like, what is your dream? What is your dream, you know? And then he was like, he had another idea where he's like, I want to talk about this, and he'll do it. So I think some of it is like pre-written, pre-thought out, and he's kind of like guiding them towards it, and then he riffs in between, you know. Okay, like he does have an idea what he wants to talk about at the end. Um, but also a lot of white women want to fuck this guy, so that helps. So, you know, if that you can you can also make it that way, you know.

SPEAKER_03 37:17

So, um, how do you test a joke that could be interpreted in so many different ways?

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Uh how do I test a joke that could be uh I think it's probably good to gauge how their the audience responds. So it's like sometimes people will heckle and yell shit. So they'll like if they're offended by something or they take something maybe not the way you intended it, they'll like just say it. Or you talk to them after a show, or you talk to a comedian, they're like, Oh, when you said this, I was thinking this, and you're like, Oh, I actually meant this, you know. Like it's like, well, sometimes things people perceive what you're trying to say is different as what you intended. So having conversations is usually helpful, you know. Like if you talk to maybe the audience or you talk to um another comic after, and like this is what I meant. Um sometimes if someone heckles live, then you're like, okay, we can do this right here, right now, you know. And then they'll be like, Oh, you said this, this, this, this, you said uh blah blah blah, women porn, blah blah. I don't know. I don't do anal. What are you talking about? I'm like, I never said you did anal, but you know, if you want to talk about that, we can do that. That's fine.

SPEAKER_03 38:30

So um going back to the crowd work topic, do you and do you do crowd work every once in a while?

SPEAKER_01 38:37

I do crowd work. Um I think every comic should be able to do crowd work. I I I see it as a as like a skill set. Like if we're talking like um like like uh like basketball, like you should be able to shoot threes and you should be able to do a layup. You know what I mean? Like it's just like a skill that you should have. Um most comics are like I don't know, people are divided on like crowd work versus material. Some people hate crowd work, some people like oh like material it should just be material. But I think on your way up as a comic, you have to be able to crowd work because not every show is a good show, you know. Not every show is an audience member that's like ready to sit down and just listen to you. So sometimes you crowd work just to get people to shut the fuck up, you know. Sometimes you're just like you guys are too rowdy. All right, what are you guys drinking? You know, whose birthday is it? Oh my god, it's the birthday girl, give it up for the birthday girl. Great! Now shut the fuck up is my show, you know, whatever. But like you you have to sometimes like crowdwork people to just like control the room. So it's more of a necessary skill to just like, oh, uh, just like bring every and sometimes it's a really bad show, you know. Like people are just like not into it, and then you have to talk to people. It's like, all right, sir, are you jo uh enjoying the show? And he's like this, and you're like, yes, and you're like, fucking, yeah, I could tell by your folded arms and your overall demeanor, you know, or like people are not laughing. So you gotta like it's like a skill to like either bring people up, bring the energy back up, or get people to laugh, or to stop disruptions. You know, it's like being in the moment with other people. So I I think it's a a hundred percent you should be able to crowd work and rift because a good comedian at the end of the day can control a room. So crowd work is just one skill set that you can use to control a room, and a lot of comics that can't do that will be like, security, please help me. I'm a little bitch. Can you get this guy out?

SPEAKER_02 40:34

You know, which you know sometimes you have to do too, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:36

Yeah, yeah. So at this stage of your career, what's harder for you? Is it to generate new premises? Is it to deepen existing bits, or to cut material that you know is only pretty good?

SPEAKER_01 40:53

I think well, cutting material it's not really hard. You you you know what's good and what's bad. It's I think you don't cut it, you just like set it aside, and maybe you look at it later. That's that's not that hard. Uh hard hardest part, I think, is uh as you become more successful. I'm not saying I I'm doing that yet. I I what I've noticed is that like it's harder to come up with more good premises or or good viewpoints because when comedians become really successful, they just kind of tour every weekend and they that's their entire life. So they stop experiencing life. And when you stop experiencing life, you run out of things to write or talk about. Everything that's why comedians that only tour talk about like airplanes, hotels, airports, you know, like the stuff you see on the road, but they don't they don't live their lives anymore, you know, they don't interact with maybe their friends or their their their uh significant others or their families or even their friends and and their hobbies or whatever, they just kind of stop doing that. And I think if you stop doing those things that like make you who you are and you're just like only on the road all the time, you you lose like going back to what we're talking about, you lose your perception of life again. Right? Because now you're in this cycle where you're just constantly only traveling and doing shows. So if you're only doing traveling, like comedians that are successful do like let's say a Thursday to a a Sunday. They probably flew in either that Thursday and they'll fly back on a Monday. So then they have like Monday to Wednesday to just relax and they're tired from the weekend, so they don't even do anything, maybe. And so now your entire life is just touring doing comedy, and if you get to that point, then it's really hard to write to because you again, if you don't experience life, you have nothing new to talk about or to think about. So you you have to give yourself enough time to experience life. So I think that's that's like a hard part. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:53

So how would you say balancing that should be approached? Do you take time off like maybe during the summer, don't do tours or do tours in the summer so that living life, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

I'm fortunate enough where I'm not successful enough that I not out every week. You know what I mean? Like I'm like every other week, or maybe there's like a three-week gap, so I'm fine. You know what I mean? I can still live my life. Um, so you know, that's one way to approach it. Never become successful, never a problem. Um, but no, I know the people who tour a lot. Like uh, I just did a weekend, I opened for uh J.R. de Guzman. I don't know if you know him.

SPEAKER_03 43:33

He's uh heard the name.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

He's very funny, hilarious, very nice guy, too. He plays the guitar. You'll like him, just check him out. Shout out to J.R. Man. Is he what?

SPEAKER_03 43:43

Is he based in Texas? Maybe I'm thinking about someone else.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

He's based in San Diego. He plays he's a uh a Filipino guy, Filipino American. He plays the guitar, and he's like he's very like uplifting, he like brings crowds together, really funny too, and the music like kind of like blends it all together. But uh yeah, check check out JR fucking killing it. Um but like him, he's like touring much like pretty consistently, and I think a lot of those guys what they do is uh they'll like take the summer off, you know. So it kind of like becomes like a school year, like an American school year, right? You know, so you like you tour uh not during the summer and you give yourself the summer off as a break, and that's your like your downtime.

SPEAKER_04 44:25

Nice, nice.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

So I think that's that's that's like probably one way to do it. That and um it probably helps if you're successful enough where you can like bring your friends and family and spouses kind of with you. So you maybe you can instead of just going city to city doing shows, you can spend an extra day and maybe like enjoy some of the stuff, kind of sightsee, look around, you know, take in the culture.

SPEAKER_03 44:46

So when people hear work ethic in comedy, um they usually think stage time, like how often are you getting in front of people to listen to your jokes and so on? What does that concept miss where work ethic in comedy is I know it's way beyond stage time, but how would you describe the other components of work ethic in comedy?

SPEAKER_01 45:11

Yeah. Dude, it's hard. It's it's just really hard because like engineering is hard. Engineering school is really hard. Like, I put a lot of all nighters in engineering school. Once I started working, it wasn't that hard because people just pay you and give you money. But I think comedy is hard because you do a lot of work. for no pay and it's like you have to like there's it's not just stage time like you said that's that's getting stage time if we're just talking about getting stage time that's already hard because you have to like you have to there's a network of comedians right there's a network of clubs and each club or comedian or produce show is its own entity so you're kind of like every time you step on a stage or before you even step on you're like interviewing for the ability to have the opportunity to perform so you're kind of just doing interviews every day. Think about it you're like every time you do a new club that's a new interview you've got to do well right you it's like and you have to like when you apply for a job you have to get the interview in the first place which is also hard right so it's like getting the opportunity to talk to a person about potentially getting stage time you have to do a lot of that so there's a lot of being able to manage relationships well. So you have to like it is a network of comedians and clubs and producers so you have to like kind of like be able to do all that and it's like maybe hundreds of thousands of people's places and names that you have to navigate and you know um you have to do well you have to like you know not be a dick you know kind of similar I I think but the difference between that is like if you have a job you just apply for the job once and now you're like you're pretty much safe. You know what I mean? But like with comedy you're kind of like every interaction is new is a new interaction between a new new job new thing you have to apply for like a new show. There's some carryover but that's I think that's a lot. And then all the other side of things like comedy you would think is just like writing jokes and then going on stage and testing it and then that's it. Which is like that's what I thought. And it's not it's like you're you're like the CEO of your own little small business right like the product is your jokes the marketing is what you market right so you have to be able to market you have to be able to edit you have to be able to nowadays do social media right you have to be able to do reels edit the reels caption the reels make carousels create a uh uh a strategy for the frequency with which you promote the material whether it's like every day Monday Wednesday Friday whatever that is uh but yeah so like before you you're big enough where you have you can have teams to help you with this stuff you're your own marketing person you're your own video person you're your own editing person you're your own photographer audio tech guy you're your own you know a PR team you're your own everything so you gotta figure out like all of those components yourself first which is why I was like oh this is actually much more stressful than if you just work for another person and you're just doing like filling a bio or something every day which in comparison I think it's like far less brain power. Right right yeah man you just get out of get out modern day comedians man like you gotta just do everything yourself it's just it's it's kind of insane but on the plus side uh you can make it yourself too so it's all in your own hands back in the day I think there were less opportunities to be successful as a comic um like you would have to like get on late late night get a sitcom and that's kind of like the c uh comedians in the 80s nineties that's that's how more or less they they made their livings you know but nowadays like if you put out good content you know that's well edited well crafted well written and you do it consistently you can find people people will find you you know right so now you you don't need those people you can you have your own you know fan base and you have you know they're they're they're following on social media they're watching your videos they're you know they they're subscribed to your mailing list stuff people should be doing right now and uh they uh they'll come see you you know like so you don't need these other people to say it's okay anymore so now like that's the plus side it's like if you're willing to put in the work you can do all of this you you can make the people come to you you know I mean you can take more control which is nice right right so how has your preparation changed now that the rooms are getting bigger and the opportunities are getting better.

SPEAKER_00 49:32

Who told you the rooms are getting bigger who said I don't know who told you the rooms were not getting smaller or staying the same size like this guy has not come to a show.

SPEAKER_01 49:44

That's it um yeah no the room that I have some of the rooms are getting bigger yes um I think there's like up and downs with comedy and it's good that some things keep you humble because like no matter how big the venue gets when we start when we test stuff as as a comedian you still go back to the small rooms anyway so it doesn't matter. What was the question again? Like now that the rooms are getting better how has your preparation changed oh how's my preparation changed uh I got the opportunity to open for uh for Ronnie Chang I don't know if you know uh on the daily show um Ronnie's a great guy and he uh he had me open for him at the Wilbur this was probably uh a little more than a year ago and that was one where I like had to like prepare prepare like most shows I don't get that nervous I I wouldn't say for that one I I was nervous because I was like oh it's like like I don't want to like I want to do well obviously because you know I I don't want to like uh I don't want the show to go poorly and then it's like the Wilbur's it was like uh 1,200 people and it was like 1200 people and it's like multiple shows so I was like oh I I don't want to like bomb in front of Ronnie or his fans you know what I mean so that was like that's a lot of eyeballs on you at the same time you know what I mean so that was like I was more stressed about that than when I headlined my own shows and I'm doing like you know hours and stuff and I'm like these are my fans I don't care if they piss but I don't like because I respect Ronnie so I'm like I don't want to fuck this up for him you know but um yeah the preparation I did was uh being stressed for for like the two three months ahead of time um but my my buddies my friends in comedy I think they kind of helped me a little bit because at first it's like I want to plan my set I was like oh his crowd is a little bit smarter maybe I shouldn't do my like dirtier blue stuff or darker stuff like I want to try to like appeal to his fans but um I think my uh I talked to a couple of like like comedian friends and they helped me out and they're like uh uh he picked you because you're funny like just relax you already did the work like everything you've done up to this point is the work you're not gonna change anything in this next like couple weeks you're not gonna get magically better or worse you know you already are who you are so it's just like just go out there and be confident do your thing and sometimes I think that's probably you just need someone to put things in more perspective for you so you don't feel as like anxious. You're oh yeah like I've already put in the work you know you're already funny. You're good. You you've been putting in the work this whole time. You know what I mean? So it's like I think it's good for someone else that just like oh yeah you're fine you're stressing out too much you know what I mean and I think that that does it because you're like oh you know big opportunity big this big that and it does get to you but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:36

Nice nice the equivalent to what I do is when I I speak at conferences all the time and of course you have to apply and then you send in some samples of conferences you've spoken or maybe they even Google you and see okay this guy has spoken at subconferences before and of course you send in like a an abstract of what you want to talk about at that conference.

SPEAKER_01 53:31

Keeping in mind the kind of conference it is it's mostly cybersecurity anyway and the kind of audience is it a bunch of executives is it tech bros is it school teachers and so on and so on and I I get the email saying well congrats you've been accepted to come speak at this conference and then I start getting nervous and then my wife and my friend say well why are you getting nervous you've been speaking at conferences they looked you up guaranteed 100% they know you can speak at this conference then they picked you exactly so you've already done the work already done the work yeah there's nothing that would make me better or worse in these next few months before this next conference yes so just show up put on your jacket and maybe wear a tie maybe don't wear a tie and then just go talk to these people so do your thing yeah no exactly sometimes you need people to just remind you that you know right because we get so in your I think on our minds you're like this is this is everything but then it even afterwards it's like no that was just a thing like for everyone it's like yeah you we make things so big in our heads I think is exactly yeah yeah so how do you think about consistency in a creative field like yours where progress is not even and validation is random oh that's a good question man that's a good question uh how do I think about consistency? Yeah it is it's not a straight line for sure it's like you know it's a squiggly line yeah um it's an undulating line for the engineers that care about words sine waves sine waves and cosine waves and tangent waves and other whatever yeah it's that it's I think you want the overall average trajectory to obviously be going up but yeah the day to day ups and uh highs and lows I think I think comedy is the highest highs and the lowest lows like when you when you like crush something that's like a big show like the one I we just talked about it's like oh wow you're on top of the world and um funny story so after I did that that that theater show with multiple shows it all went great fortunately like two days later I went to like uh uh a uh open mic which is you know where we like work our workshop our stuff and there was like I don't know like seven people there and you know just like no energy and I was and I remember being on stage I was like I could have taken more time to enjoy my high before this low I mean like there's no reason for me to have come back so soon I could have ridden that high for like three extra days and then come back to this you know what I mean? So it's like it it's yeah it's uh you you just I think it's just managing. Like now now when I feel now now I have more of the understanding of like if I have a lot of good shows I know a bad one's probably gonna come up eventually and if I have a lot of bad shows I know that they're not um forever either like even if I have like three terrible shows in a row I'm like this can't keep going. Like it's gonna bounce back. So I think it's like uh reminding yourself it's like of the overall trajectory like on average how am I doing? And the you know the highs the highs are great the the lows are not forever. So it's just like you you just just kind of keep going and then like that consistency so long as it like like we're talking about so long as you're consistently out there you're still putting yourself you know you're trying you're writing you're trying to get on uh get on stage as much as you can you're like moving in the positive direction um obviously the uh like big milestones and validation points are great to have uh so those are those are good and I think you should probably celebrate those when you get those uh because that that's like like you said it's hard right you might get like oh I got a this I'm doing a late night show or something or whatever like I'm on doing a Netflix thing like you should celebrate those those moments um but yeah no it's hard I think is you just you kind of keep grinding through man you keep grinding through keep doing you so two more questions and then we begin to wrap up here um clearly you do more than just stand up sets um you also do long form conversations like this one and then you do pop culture detours I do pop culture detours okay cool I didn't know that what kinds of side interest actually feed the comedy instead of distracting from it uh interesting yeah I do do podcasts and I think same thing with what you said earlier uh I've been getting better at podcast the more I do podcasts I think the first couple of podcasts I was on was probably not watchable um but uh a part of that is is also I think the podcast is uh it's the podcast host too because the host and you're doing a good job you're doing great job man my man to give you some flowers like because it it's a back and forth you know so it's like it's a host job to keep things interesting ask the right questions you know so it's like sometimes if the podcast sucks it's because the host sucks it's not just because the guest sucks as well but um yeah it's uh I think podcasts are fun fun for me because I don't have to prepare I just go I show up you know just I woke up I clicked your link now I'm here you know but a stand-up I have to like try you know I have to like write it's all premeditated this I can like kind of you know we're in the moment we're just riving it's more like a conversation it's more fun you know yeah um not that stand-up's not fun it's just it requires so much more effort effort you know I mean like this compared to maybe your conference like the conference you have to like prepare way more for I'm sweating bullets the entire time yeah yeah I mean like this is yeah this we can just kind of hang um I do Brazilian jujitsu on the side that's like the thing that and then this year I've been doing judo that's the thing I've been trying to get into a lot because I've been dojitsu for jujitsu for like 12 years and judo is stand up learning how to throw people right learning how to hit people with the earth fun hobby and it's nice to just like sometimes it's it's good to like take your mind off of uh comedy. If comedy is the only thing you do uh it like you know you get stressed out you get burnt out just thinking about it all the time so I think it's nice to have other things that like takes your mind away and you can kind of just think about that for a little bit. So this year yeah I've been doing judo they don't help me do comedy they actually help me take my mind away from comedy so that I can be more interested in it later.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:04

Right right I think and the equivalent of that for me is I want to say boxing because like you said things that would take your mind off something else. Yeah yeah boxing works really well because if you get hit in the head a lot you forget everything else that's a good yeah so something physical something that requires moving my body yeah something that requires just physical movement so outside of boxing I also do yoga to some extent yeah does that one more constant thing I do is I go work out at 5 a.m every weekday so shout out to F45 yeah F45 yeah that was impressive man combination of cardio and resistance and lifting and so on and 5 a.m works for me because everybody's still sleeping I can go and come back and they are still sleeping yeah and I can you know get my day started you know I've done some work and I've already sweated by 6 a.m yeah and at that point nothing can bother me not my seven year old not my wife shout out to my wife not like shout out to your wife not bothering you yeah but then it's it's just a good way to you know get things started yeah get your blood flowing and get you know your head space is in a better place and by by 9 a.m I've already done like so many things between 5 and 9 a.m and that's not possible if I wake up at 7 a.m and I'm like lazy but I wake up at 4 30 get to the gym by 4 45 that's that already puts your brain in a different mode what what time do you go to sleep so with the editing the podcast and every now and then maybe 11 midnight do you sleep like five hours yeah is that enough is that enough to recover I mean I'm young enough but then I catch up on weekends anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:04

Oh weekends you okay on the weekdays okay on week weekends yeah okay I got you okay no that makes sense uh do you follow jock O'Willink yeah I listen to his podcast because he's he's awake half an hour before you just just so you know yep and you gotta stay hard man he's he's awake half an hour before you bro just letting you know yep yeah I'm actually awake before all of you either because I haven't gone to sleep yet but you know yeah so in this current chapter of your life of your career and so on what are you most deliberately trying to improve are you focusing more on writing performance storytelling growing your audience or something else uh definitely everything but I think this year uh since I'm doing stand-up full time I'm trying to obviously I want to get better as a writer as a performer I'm trying to uh increase my my following like my my my social media my marketing presence because it's like when you stand up is the only thing you do you have to be able to generate revenue from doing stand up and the best way and almost only way is that you have to be able to sell a lot of tickets and and venues so if you're unable to do that and you just do other people's shows you're just getting you're not getting paid that much money. So I've been definitely focusing on like the the marketing aspect and uh I think uh I probably tried to do this prematurely maybe like two three years ago but I just simply like the content wasn't as good you know I wasn't as a good comic yet so like if you just put out mediocre stuff no one really follows you right so but like I think more recently I've hit a stride where I'm like good enough people are like relating to the stuff I put out and they like it enough that they're willing to follow so I think this year I'm I'm trying to really push that aspect of it. Obviously still trying to write better still trying to do all that other stuff but like that's been a big big focus kind of learning strategies for all that and how all that works you know nice and for those who are not familiar for those who are not aware I found you on Instagram. So I was going through Instagram is it's working yep it's working yep it's working what was the thing you saw what was the the the one about Chinese dads have autism that one that one okay yeah that's a long bit yeah yeah yep and I like how it had the um the closed caption yeah yeah the carousel right yeah pictures yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so that that's that's working so nice nice yeah that one I think is almost at three million so people should keep sharing it yeah that's good wow wow apparently a lot of people have Chinese dads that but that they didn't think their dad was Chinese but uh now they know and one thing that made me you know pay attention more was it's so relatable you don't even have to be Chinese to say you don't have to be Chinese no no this is what my dad does yeah he does a lot of dads do this it's not just Chinese dad yeah exactly yeah yeah yeah so um final question yeah and then we wrap up when people come away from a Peter Lou set in 2026 what do you hope that they understand about you that a short clip cannot capture that's a great question man that's a deep question um I've been watching Kevin Hart's Funny as fuck on Netflix have you have you do you know the show no it's it's on my list I haven't seen it yeah so they they they have a lot of great comics in there and they what's interesting about the show other than the great comedy is what the judges uh are looking for so they talk about like because you're doing a short set and when you do a short set people don't have time to if you only do like five minutes to fully grasp kind of what you're asking me like which is like uh like who are you what is your perspective how do you want to be remembered what is your unique viewpoint what is the energy you bring on stage and these are kind of the the judging criteria that they talk about they're like oh like within your five minutes set people should be able to get some idea of like who you are you know what you're about what's your energy uh how they remember your perception um I don't know what mine is fully I joke about it we're talking about comedians like what is you what are you you just Asian guy I'm like no I'm an Asian guy that fucks that's completely different um but I don't think that's what it is either you know what I mean I think I I don't think that's that's what it is I think it's I think it's just me trying to be me and then people will I'll I'll figure out what that is uh eventually I think part of I I I do work out and I used to fuck before you know now I'm in this long-term relationship so now it's like basically immersion again you know uh but uh yeah I think exactly I grew up a lot so I have a lot of weird perspectives on things so I think people can take that away kind of like the thing you're talking about where like that bit where we're talking about like oh like my dad does all these things that he's like you know he's like kind of distant emotionally he's you know he's rude he's blunt and you know has no interest in his kids and people like oh he's autistic no he's not autistic that's just a regular Chinese dad what are you talking about yeah I mean like they're all like that and then you know I would get more into like how there's a lot of uh similarities between Asian culture and like what they call symptoms of autism yeah or just like Confucian virtues you know like in America there's like yo this kid's like weird and I was like no no he's studying that kid's gonna be successful you're weird why you out there socializing you should be doing what he's doing so it's kind of like you know just a kind of like flipping ideas and concepts and thinking about them it's like oh like these are just in America you think these are bad you You were like, oh, these are not good. But like in another culture, that's our best guy. Do you know what I mean? You're like, oh, that that guy, that's our best guy. It's like you want everyone to be autistic, actually. And then and then you start thinking it's like, oh, so maybe autism isn't a real thing at all. It's like it's a fake disorder that you guys created for being unable to get an A. Maybe you're just dumb. You know what I mean? Maybe, maybe we're normal and you're all stupid, you know? So it's just, you know, come in with like different ideas and think about it. And you know, a lot of this is jokes, but I think it's like to me, the underlying thing about that bid is like perception. You know what I mean? Your environment, your perception, right? So it's like in a different culture, these are what we think is good or standard or normal. In another culture, you're like, actually, no, these are the things that we care about that we value, and they may be different. And it's like, I'm not saying one is right or wrong, I'm just saying, like, oh, it's it's interesting to see it not in just one way, you know what I mean? So I think that's that's what I'm trying to do. Yeah, nice, nice.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:02

This has been a fun conversation. Thank you so much. And like I said, I saw you on Instagram, I went to your website, filled out a form, followed due process.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:13

Follow due process, yeah. I appreciate that. This man has the work ethic, he put it in.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:20

So it's it's just one of those things where doing the podcast now for this number of years, I've started to see how it's changing me personally. Interesting. I see something I'm interested in, I just go after it. I want to talk to this person, I send an email, they reply, they don't reply. Well, I've done my part. Yes. So whatever is gonna come out of this conversation, I'm gonna be proud of myself for taking that step.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:48

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:49

I think is what work ethic is all about, and your career has also kind of encapsulated that saying you've done this biotech thing for a while, you just want to do something different, and now you're doing something different, and it's working out for you because you're approaching it from not just I want to make money, it's like I'm doing something that wants to feel fulfilling for me, yeah. And then the byproducts is gonna be the money, the private jet, and then all the other things. The private jet, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:18

The public community jet. Yeah, I just want economy plus, guys. Buy tickets so I can be in economy plus. Okay, I'm not asking for that much.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:27

Route 37E in the battle frontier.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:31

I would like to get off the plane within at least 20 minutes of us landing. Is that too much to ask? Can I be in group C for once? Okay, instead of group eight.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:44

Wow, thank you so much. This has been really fun, and of course, wishing you all the best successes. Thank you, man. I appreciate that. When next are you gonna be in Tampa, Florida? Let's just start from there.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:56

Tampa, Florida, man. I don't have any dates in Tampa, Florida, but hey man, like if Orlando for your for your listeners, if yeah, if there's people that are in Orlando or Tampa or any parts of Florida, and you just like I gotta go on my website, put in your contact info, and then you know, if I get a big enough emailing list, I'll fucking I'll come back, I'll come out to Florida. You know, I just uh Yeah. Tell me you can bring 20 friends. That helps, you know? Put in be like, yo, bro, I got my cousins, you know, I got my kids, whatever. You know, I got my I got my mistress's kids, I'll come out for you, you know, like something like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:34

I got my I got my ex-cousins.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:35

Yeah, I got my ex-cousin, you know, yeah. We gotta pull him out of jail first, but you know, he'll he'll come out, you know, he's got a squad, whatever it is. I'll I'll come to wherever, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:44

Just yeah, I will go wherever to do comedy. I just I would like to show up and then there's people, that's all. Nice, nice.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:51

Yeah. Thank you so much. Talk to you soon.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:53

Thank you, man. Appreciate you.