504. Dr. Sajita Setia

In this episode, host Bidemi Ologunde speaks with Dr. Sajita Setia about youth mental health, digital wellbeing, and how families and schools can help young people build healthier relationships with technology. What does "digital wellbeing" actually mean? Why is the conversation about screen time often too narrow? How can social-emotional learning help teens use social media more mindfully? And when does a digital detox help, or miss the point? Dr. Setia shares insights from her work in medicine, education, implementation science, and youth-focused digital wellbeing programs across multiple countries. Find out more at https://sajitasetia.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Thank you once again for joining me on another episode of the Bait Picture Podcast. I have a special guest from all the way in New Zealand. Am I right?

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

So for a brief introduction, can you tell us about yourself, what you do, and how long you've been doing it?

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Yeah, thanks so much, Bed. It's a pleasure to be here and with this conversation. I'm really looking forward to it. I'm a physician and a digital well-being researcher and with expertise in implementation science. I also have a solid background in pharmaceutical industry and health education. So we are living through the largest human experiment in the history of mankind, now especially with AI. And since last few years, children are spending a crazy amount of time on screens. Yet most young people and their families have never been taught how to use technology in ways that protect their emotional and brain health and at the same time preserves their focus, productivity, and relationships. So I have been a physician for 20 years, but I have devoted the last five years to digital well-being research and implementation. My work was also picked up by Wall Street Journals and also several international podcasts. I'm also an advisor to a global digital well-being organization based in the UK. There are very few digital well-being organizations, and I'm lucky to be a part of it. And I'm working on preventing mental health harms and family issues by creating content online that teaches parents-specific evidence-based tools. Recently, I have also co-founded Digital Well-being International here in New Zealand, and we have just started rolling out seminars for parents as well as customized workshops for children on digital well-being. I'm on a mission to transform as many families as possible with the healthy and safe use of tech.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Wow. Wow. That is so impressive. I can only look up to you and hope to achieve half of what you've achieved in such a recent short time. Thank you for sharing all of that. And to kind of jump on that, you have more than 20 years of experience in healthcare. How did that background shape the way you look at social media and screens and especially young people's mental health?

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Well, being on the academic side, I frankly never spent too much time on screens growing up. I come from a healthcare background. My parents are also physicians. So I was I grew up in a very secured, kind, compassionate home. Um, and also when we were growing up in general, we didn't have this much influence on screens. There was just a TV. Uh yeah, cable TV also came when I was in high school, but somehow my parents sheltered me. But when I became a mother, and that's how most parents would also feel that they juggle, there's like a tug of war between their kids and screen. There's nothing right or wrong, and it definitely affects our family harmony and relationships. So it was around my son was in his early preteen years, he's going to be 16 now, and it was just at the onset of the pandemic, around the first lockdown, when he got really passionate about online chess, and chess is good, like it was chess in general. It started in the school, but during lockdown, it was virtual learning, and we didn't really have much options. I was juggling work. Um, my husband was away for some reason. He had to be in Singapore at that time and he was stuck in the lockdown, so I was alone with the kids, and it was a tough time, like I can imagine, for most of the people. Although we were safe in one way, that New Zealand was one of the most safest countries around that time, but we were also unsafe through our minds because we were exposed to so much of information, what's happening in other countries. Um, and anyway, so my son got into online chess. It started with the online holiday program during lockdown, and he started spending hours playing chess, which I was told is good for him. I also consulted a few physicians because I noticed a change in his mood and behavior, uh, sleep to start with, and he had a school laptop, so he used to play, and I was not really too much aware about digital well-being myself. Uh, and his teachers and physicians were like, Jess is good for his mind, he doesn't play other games, it's good for problem solving. But I knew something is wrong as a mom, and I started researching myself, and then I was so alarmed that it's such a common problem, and there is so little information available to support families. That's how I started this research through my own lived experience, and it was transformational in me learning through the research journey how critical digital well-being habits are, and just introducing simple changes in our lifestyle, in our relationship with technology, and understanding how technology is always there to win and it is never an even fight. It can be a game changer in our mood, focus, productivity, and most importantly, our relationships, our relationships with our children, our relationship with our partners, because then we realize that there is no technology which can come between our well-being and our relationships, because technology is always there to win. It has it is backed by billion dollars of research and funding and advertisement, so it is not an even fight. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Wow, wow, and you're very correct in describing it that way. The business model that these platforms actually engage in is meant to maximize the time you spend on the platform. Because there is this popular saying, if you are not paying for the product, you are the product. So they want to keep you on the app for as long as possible so that the advertisers that actually pay money to the platforms to advertise on it, they want to be able to then show the advertisers look in February 2026, we had 20 million people spend eight hours on our social media platform. So if you advertise with us, you are guaranteed to have 20 million people see your product. So when people start to think about it that way, saying this thing that makes you scroll endlessly so that you can spend more time on the platform. They don't even show you things from your own friends anymore, they show you things from people you don't know, just so that you can spend more time on the platform. So having this in mind is going to go a long way, but many people don't see it that way. They think, well, it's something I used to distress after a long day, or it's something I used to keep in touch with my friends. Well, the people you see on social media, how well do you know them and how well do you know you? Maybe start with that. Your quote unquote best friend on social media don't know the things you struggle with personally. So is that your friend or vice versa? I don't know. When people talk about screen time, um, at the start of your journey, what were some of the things you were saying that told you that screen time as a concept is way deeper than just time spent online?

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Oh, that's a very good question. And I love the points that you raised. Uh so digital detox is the term used to maintain some distance with technology. It's never complete detox in today's world. Our life literally depends on technology. For many, the livelihood depends on technology. So, digital detox, I would say in practical terms, refers to taking a temporary break from technology, even if it's for work, like don't use your screens for the weekend or just a few hours if weekends are too big of a mission. Start with a digital sunset, spending time with your family without technology, or using technology in a way that actually boosts real life connection. Okay, if your parents are overseas, it's alright. You can have a Zoom call with them or WhatsApp call. That's fine. That's like intentional use of technology. But digital detox is so hard due to the fake rewards, and it has nothing to do with weak willpower. So often there's so much guilt and blame, especially in parents, also in children, because they feel they have a weak willpower. But the comparison is like if you keep your phone next to you when you're working or spending time with your family, it is so mean to test your willpower by keeping a device next to you. And it is not weak willpower, it's basically neuroscience and intentional design. So dopamine is a neurotransmitter, it's a chemical in the brain that is meant for motivation and reward learning signal. Um, and it's it's all meant for good cause. Biology, dopamine was it exists in the brain and it's it's released when we achieve something and it gives us a good feeling. Like it could be anything like winning a game, uh, you know, a sports game, achieving in life, whatever you count that okay, you know, I worked hard and I deserve it, and I feel good. And that good feeling, it also gives us an urge for let's do it again. And that happens in sports, you know, we want to climb up and we feel good. But the intentional design of social media platforms and gaming platforms, it triggers this system, but it triggers it through false rewards and quick wins. And children's brain are really vulnerable because their self-control system is still developing. It's developing throughout adolescence. Sometimes, even for young adults, the brain is not fully mature, and that's why just five minutes on devices they turn into an hour, just like in casino, like we have a traditional slot machine and the smartphone notifications and social media, it has been compared in exactly the same fashion. So it's meant to deliver intermittent reward systems, just like slot machines. We don't win every time, but we might win at the next poll. So this intermittent reinforcement, just like okay, you are on social media and you may not like the clip that's playing, but that doesn't happen. You keep scrolling and you may end up seeing something that you have always craved to see. So intentionally it's designed like that, but now with AI, it is highly immersive, it is pervasive. So when you are there, you feel to be a part of it, but it's fake. As you said, it's very different from catching up with a friend or family over coffee, it's very different. So over social media, it's just a fake way of belonging, but actually, young people are way more disconnected rather than being connected through social media.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Wow, wow. During the early days of the pandemic, 2020, 2021, was the period when you started identifying factors behind the youth mental health crisis. So, what are some of the important things you learned during that early stage?

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Uh I learned that in general, we all know that girls and women are way more prone for depression, anxiety, body image concerns. Uh so screens affect girls and boys differently, and it's very important for us to be aware of. Like online gaming and pornography can be highly addictive for boys and young men, but social media, especially Instagram and TikTok and the body image concerns, they affect girls way more. Uh, but overall, both end up losing focus and time. So it doesn't mean that it is good for one and not good for the other. It's it basically it's harmful if it's not used as a tool, it then it becomes like a trap. And girls in general, they tend to compare their looks a lot, you know, how they look, how they appear, how others appear. So these body image concerns and the commenting online we really need to distill emotional intelligence in children, especially in girls, related to curating the feed. And there's this intense beautification pressure which is being seen in young girls, and we have been seeing the effects, um, you know, early puberty, early sexualization, uh, in every in in children in general, but especially in girls, it affects way more. So if you have a daughter, and I do have I have an 11-year-old, you have to be way more careful in delaying smartphone and social media use as much as possible. Equally for boys, I wouldn't discriminate boys in this regard because they these are habit forming. Uh, but at least access to Instagram, TikTok, which are highly addictive platforms. This is what we found from our research. We ran through all the publications on PubMed for digital detox, and the high-quality research points out that depression, anxiety in general are common in teen girls than boys because of the effect of the screens on girls, because this is biology, girls in them comparing themselves for their looks, how they look, their friendship circles also affect girls way more. So delaying smartphone, delaying social media is an absolutely must. I wouldn't fix an age to that. Um, it depends on the maturity of the child and the need. Every family has different needs, but if you really need to give a phone to your child for protection, for security, or just to be in communication, just for communication, you can get additional security so that they can't download social media, like there is a safe surfer with smartphones, and Apple also has some technology, but often it should not look like punishment, often it looks like a punishment, which it should not look, it should look like protection to the child. So, communication connection is very important. If you already have given a smartphone to your child, keep in mind smartphone is a pacifier, it's like the teddy bear, and your child is very close to it. So often I hear from parents that all we can do is confiscate the smartphone. This is how it works in our family, and punishment basically means taking away devices, and I would say this is not right, it may affect your connection way more. So communicate with your children, first take the blame away. So often parents are like, Oh, you're always your phone, you're ruining your life. So this will stay with a child throughout the life. These are labels that we are putting on our children, so we need to take them back. We have to put label on the right culprit, which is technology, you know, and be vulnerable. So rules should apply to all. Be vulnerable in your conversation. Yes, you are not the only one who loses track of time. I do too. And parents should be equally vulnerable. Like I am vulnerable, I have binge washed Netflix, and I don't shy away from admitting it, even to my children. So I tell them it's not about self-control. You have less self-control because you're a child, but my self-control can never match technology. So when I'm working, my phone has to be outside my office unless I need it to call somebody. And when I'm sleeping at night, phones have to be outside the bedroom. So it should apply to everybody. And for children, because a lot of manipulation, online grooming, and exploitation also happens online. So the best strategy which can save a lot of children is keeping devices in shared spaces. Phones, laptops, even for schoolwork, should be in shared spaces so that parents can monitor what's going on, should not be in bedrooms. And if you find something inappropriate on their devices, please do not throw a fit. I believe all children are exposed to content which is not suitable for them. So it's not just your child. Maybe it's time you need to wrap up and build up your connection. Start with just 15 minutes if you if one hour is too much before they go to bed, share something, share value-driven talks, what you are grateful for, how important are your children in your lives? Positive, build the connection. So you have to bring your children closer to you, what technology has pulled back before you start any rules and regulations.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Nice, nice. Thank you. Thank you so much for that. Um in 2022, you were developing the Success for Life framework. So, why did you think it was important to make that framework holistic rather than issue-specific?

SPEAKER_00 19:20

That's a very good question. So, to be frank, when we started developing this framework, digital well-being was not the top of our agenda. It was just to look into factors or the easiest factors which can be implemented on and can save and protect as many children as possible. And we covered a lot of stuff. We covered, let's say, drug use, we covered um affirmations, we covered uh uh you know, friendship circles and every anything that can be covered or is relevant for mental well-being. And through our research, we found that the top criteria, which is easiest to implement and for which a lot of work needs to be done, like the missing gap is greatest in digital well-being. And students shared with us, even those students who are way more shy, they're not vocal, just being a part of the discussion about technology, they started implementing. So we saw behavior change. So instead of scrolling at night, they learned through self-care, self-love, it's important. I want to respect myself. I love myself. So I'm keeping my phone away because I love myself. I'm reading. So a lot of children actually started reading before they go to bed, and we noticed dramatic improvement in their well-being and focus. And after that, we started customizing it to digital well-being. Um, but again, as per the American Academy of Pediatrics, latest policy statement, which came in January 2026, and I was so glad to read it. I read it like five times and I was thrilled because they are advocating and recommending exactly what we found in our research. So, mental well-being and digital well-being they go hand in hand. Uh, people who can resolve low mood with offline activities or stress and anxiety with offline activities, they manage their digital habits way better. So, and and and in general, children and adults who have poor digital habits, they also have poor mental well-being. So, they go hand in hand. Unfortunately, the definition of health still does not include digital well being, which is a missing gap. Like elsewhere, it does talk about physical health, mental health, but we still need to include digital health because I believe digital health is a common denominator that affects both mental health and physical health. There is spiritual health. But I would strongly recommend including digital health there. So our curriculum is designed not just for digital health, also for emotional well-being, emotional intelligence, because online emotional intelligence is equally important as offline activities, especially for children. You know what are they watching slowly becomes what they feel. So curating social media, moving away from doom scrolling to bloom scrolling is very important. Follow the accounts that make you grow, not just for children, for everybody. Good accounts. And instead of short binge watching, all the short clips, they're not good for developing brain. Listen to longer content, podcast-based content, educational content, motivational content. So this is how we use technology as a tool and not as a trap. And you can easily curate your content. Like I would highly recommend teenage girls to take it really seriously. First, to remove Instagram and TikTok and most of the common social media platforms, including Snapchat, from their phones, because phones are sneaky, they go everywhere with you. And it just takes a few seconds to move from calling your mom to rather be on Instagram. It's human. But if you really have to maintain the accounts, you can use your laptop. We are not asking you to remove. If you can remove well and good, you really don't need social media to thrive. Definitely, you don't need. I have met so many successful people who have never been on any social media and they are thriving. You can hire people to manage your social media, but don't do it yourself. And for young boys, I would recommend keep your laptops, especially your phones and even your laptops outside the room, because keeping your devices in your room is like keeping a chocolate cake next to a treadmill. It's mean. It's not going to work, especially for children. If they can't go to sleep at night, they will immediately reach out to their phone for five minutes, and five minutes can easily become five hours. So these points are really important. Then they're simple. They don't really cost much. They just need education, discussion, but that needs to be compassionate and non-the judgmental for any behavior change.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Wow. Wow. You've piloted programs across the US, India, New Zealand, I believe. What changed once you moved from research design into real-world implementation?

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Research is good to test out what whatever we want to test out, our hypothesis, but to implement, we need to move away from research because our capabilities are limited, and research is done in a very close set of conditions. We don't really have much flexibility. But in real life, the situation is very different. For example, in real life, children often struggle because their lack of boundaries at home. I'm talking about younger children, especially. So if parents do not model good behavior, any kind of education related to digital well-being will be very hard for a child to implement. If the parents are spending too much time on social media, it is obvious that this is what children are going to learn. So in real life, it's not just about children, it's about families. And we need to include families. And if parents model good digital habits and non-judgmental talks, communication with good connection, we do not need any programs for children. But I'm not judging parents here. I'm a parent, I know how hard it is. We end up using technology and telling ourselves it's for work. We avoid phone eye contact with our children at times because we really have to send an email when our child wants to share, but that movement doesn't come back. Loss of presence is just losing connection. Parents do not take it seriously because they don't know the long-term implications and they need to be taught. So right now, our programs, they are not just for children. We always include parents. We include, we give so whatever we are starting now in New Zealand, there would be complimentary sessions for parents. We can't make it mandatory. We we also don't want to charge for it because then it will look like you know there's a program for parents. But parents need to be involved and we would let them know you need to attend the complimentary session because if your child is not doing well in the workshops, we can't share anything with you. We don't know what's going at home. So we need to know the home situation, what's happening, and everybody's situation is unique. But parents can definitely take good points, nuggets to implement at home. And most parents struggle. Like lately, I haven't heard a single parent not complaining about excessive use of devices by their preteens and teens. They can monitor, they can take devices, they can do a lot of things when children are young. Once they grow up, they start using technology for schoolwork, they become defiant, uh, especially around the onset of puberty. It gets really hard on parents.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Wow, wow. So, what did you notice that worked across different cultures? And what are some things that needed to be adapted locally?

SPEAKER_00 27:55

What works across different cultures, I would say across different species, even it works for dogs, is love. It is one universal language that can change everything. There's no love and hate relationship between parents and children. Even there's never hate. Okay, it can manifest, and maybe a child in anger can say, I hate you. Generally, it's love and fear. So parents end up saying something out of fear. But the the background, the baseline is still love because they want to protect the children. They end up saying, What are you going to do? You're going to do in your life because it's the fear manifesting. So we just have to change that fear into love, and it works in every culture, in every country, across different species, not just for your human children, also for your pets, your dogs, your dog children. It will equally work if we just manifest that the same thing with love. So you see, now, right now, we are battling technology, and the only shield we have against technology is our love. So love should not be competing with fear. We have to keep the fear factor away. There's no end of fear, and fear will manifest in your body language and it will pull away your child from you. Fear has to be curbed. We have to give respect to our children. No matter in which state they are, they still need to be respected for living through this technology world, which is not easy on them, where their focus is pulled every second by billion-dollar research and algorithm. We need to respect them and then we need to move forward.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Wow, wow. I have friends who tell me with friends with older kids, so teenagers basically, and they tell me that sometimes they see their own kids and their kids' friends, they try to do homework and they read two lines, they're not understanding the two lines, and then they pick up the iPad. And then maybe that happens after school. Well, it's understandable they're tired, but then even on weekends, when they are trying to read a novel or a magazine, and they read two, three lines, and they just pick up the iPad. And it's getting so bad that focusing on paying attention on things, not even just reading a physical book or a magazine, focusing on anything has become the attention span is almost two seconds. So you're trying to go on a walk with them, they would rather stay home and be on their devices or watch something on TV or YouTube. And kids now are not interested in learning how to drive. The ones that are of driving age, 16, 17, 18, back in the day, that was something kids looked forward to. Some even start driving as early as 14, 15 when they get tall enough, and they don't even wait till 16. But now kids don't they're not interested in learning how to drive because the process of learning how to drive requires so much focus and attention, and some people take three months, some people take six months. They just don't have that focus in them, and that is just so bad.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

Yeah, I would agree. It's it's common, as I said, it's across cultures. Um, I noticed the same. So my son is about to be 16. There was almost one year where he hardly read. He used to be a vivid reader, he loved reading. I used to select books for him, and I would encourage him to read. Uh and he would always have excuses. So I I continued. I started getting books. I kept on getting books, they won't be read. I'll keep it next to his bed on his bedside. It took him one year, he's back to reading, and he's reading wonderfully. He's reading on holiday, so I would tell parents don't give up. There is hope. Um, there is a framework I would recommend all parents to implement. So it's our signature framework, which has worked wonderfully across families. So there are three elements to it to battle technology. First is name it, which we have discussed. So we name it correctly. We call the culprit as technology. We don't use the word addiction for children and we don't put the blame for children because once we remove the blame, a lot of things get sorted. Children also blame themselves, and they just they don't want to try to be technology because they know that they have to surrender at technology. We name it correctly, we tell them that technology is making money through your focus, so you are a target. Once children understand this, many are willing to put in some effort. So we name it properly. Second, we move it. You have to move it out of their sight, out of sight, out of mind. So if there are books in place, iPad and phones cannot be near them. And for younger children, I will recommend parents to lock them up somewhere and give them after they have read or done their homework or physical activity, played sports, gone out for walks. We don't give it before. You know, desserts and lollies are always in the end after dinner. So move it away, but do in a way it doesn't feel like punishment, it feels like protection. So the shared decision-making part is very important when the child says yes, you know, technology is winning all the time, and I am going to be a superhero now, and please take it away for younger kids. And explain them through game. Let's say it's a game. We are playing a game where we don't know, do not know any game rules, and technology is winning because we don't have strategies. So the biggest strategy to win is to take away your opponent's strongest weapon. So take it away, put it out of sight. So we name it, we move it, we move it away, and then we time it. I understand children are used to gaming. If everybody is gaming, they may want to stay connected with their friends. Fine, you can allow them to game in a shared space. Again, it should not be in bedroom, shared space. A lot is happening through Minecraft and Roblox parents. Be aware. There is online grooming also happening there. There are gangs like uh 764 gangs and a lot of copycats, and they manipulate and groom children. There's extortion through games. I'm not saying don't allow your child to game, that's fine. Move it in a shared space and time it so that you can monitor, you can, but they should be aware never to respond to strangers, keep your account secure, you should have all the settings in place. Same goes for social media, but especially for girls, I would highly recommend curate and audit their social media along with their consent, but do it together. Which accounts are they following? Is it to make them grow internally? So, for our workshops, you'll be surprised if I ask when we started laying out the program and we have interactive questions, like you know, to make them feel good about themselves. What are you most proud of? A lot of girls would say, I'm proud of my skin, my hair, my nails. So, this is what is ingrained in their mind. Everything is about looks, and looks are so overrated. They would make up long wrong decisions for their partner in life, for their friends, for their companies, just for the sake of looks. They do not mean anything. So, internal beauty, how we are inside our values, our character, that's what matters in life. And we should follow those accounts, value-based, which teach children compassion, kindness, doing something good for others, volunteering. And I would say this is the purpose-driven life which can save kids and families from technology.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

Wow, wow, that is so profound. And for some people listening now, I'm sure they have a lot of people in mind that they need to share this with and just forward this to as many people as possible, including people who don't have kids yet. Because it's one thing to grow up in a time where, well, for you, it's even much long ago. I'm relatively much younger, and we see the gradual change in society. Before you would have a situation where someone go to school, they come home, they do homework, and the TV stations don't even start broadcasting until 5 p.m. Now the TV stations are 24-7. Now there is YouTube that doesn't even require you to have a TV channel. You can be in the middle of nowhere and you still have access to the internet and watch YouTube. And now parents or future parents who don't have kids yet, they are they have their work cut out for them because the little baby will start getting exposed to screens as early as six months-old. And where does brain development go from there? And then the six-month-old becomes two years old, and then you pick the pacifier is one, and then the screen is the secondary pacifier, and that just goes downhill from there. So, for any parent listening right now or future parents, what are some of the first resets that you would recommend for them to start doing something practical, something tangible, measurable, that they can start to incorporate personally into their lifestyle?

SPEAKER_00 37:52

That's a really good question. I'm glad you asked that. I would tell all parents or to be future parents, you are the best present or gift or toy for your child. Nobody, no technology, living, non-living, can replace that. They do not need expensive gadgets or gifts, they need you. You need to spend time with your children. And that's how you would know what's happening in their lives. If we are not able to monitor their online life, we will end up losing our child. And we can only monitor if they love to spend time with us. That's how they would allow you. You can't snatch it and oh, I'm going to audit your Facebook, your Instagram, what are you doing? They will get another phone and another account. They they can manipulate children, they are really smart, but they don't do it on purpose. They do because that's how their brain works. Keep in mind, especially for preteens and teens, emotional centers are way more active. Doesn't mean it will stay like that. Adolescents are weird, they are from another planet. We all know that they are highly emotional, but it's temporary. But your relationship with your child is permanent. Spend time. If your child doesn't want to spend time with you, do anything together. If your child isn't gaming, game together. You know, whatever can permit you to spend some time, do it together. But cook together, involve them in chores, you know, tidy up together. But make that experience so profound that your child is pulled towards you. If your child is rude or does not behave the way you want to, stay patient. That time will come. This time you are making an effort to spend time. Start with five minutes, ten minutes, fifteen minutes, and if the doors are fully closed, just tell your child what you are most grateful for and include your child in that list. It has done wonders for me. You know, when I really have conflicts in my family, we are not perfect family, we are just like everybody else. But when we started implementing the science behind digital well-being and caring for each other more than technology, no matter what, making eye contact. We are mammals, we are pack animals, we need belonging to survive. It's needed for our survival. A lot changed. Even for parents, your relationship with your partner is going to change dramatically when you prioritize in-person interaction. So keep your screens away when you're spending time with each other or with your children, no matter how busy, arrange a suitable time, block out your calendar. This half an hour is for my family. We are going on a walk together, we're going to cook together, whatever works, you have to find one activity. I know parents struggle. It's such a simple thing, but a lot of parents struggle in finding that one activity that they can do together with their children. But yeah, break the ice somehow, and then everything will get very easy. Your children are not selfish. That's how technology has put a mask on them, and your love is the only medicine that can take away that mask. I don't think anything else can take it away. Yeah, there are chances that if you have a good mentor or teacher, that can impart some qualities in your children, but nothing beats the power of love from a parent.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

Wow, wow, that is so so insightful. Thank you so much for that. And to start wrapping up here gradually, um, in the next three to five years, what would success look like to you in this field where you would be able to say, we finally, as a society, built a healthier relationship with technology.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

Um, okay, that's interesting. In the next five years, if parents and children together they come forward to be the next saviors, that would look like to me because I don't want people to follow me. I want to create leaders, parent leaders and children leaders. I want peer mentors who are children. That is how success will look like to me. When I can create parents like myself who talk about this, because then we can replicate the effect. It's it's it's multiplied. We can't reach billions. I cannot reach billions by myself. But if I have my fellow parents and a lot of parents are volunteering, it's so sweet, it's so touching for our courses locally. We have lots of parents who are coming and helping out, they just want to be observers and they're like, we want to observe what you're doing so that we can take it and apply it to our family and also inform our friends. This is how it looks like. We have to start a movement. You know how religious movements started? We have to start a movement for digital well-being because technology is too big and powerful. But if our collective action comes forward, we can win over technology and use it as a tool and not be trapped by it. Wow, wow.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

Thank you so much for this. This has been a very insightful conversation. Of course, the conversation is timely, it's something that is much needed. I learned so much from you. Um, the previous conversation we had, I mentioned how I have three boys. The oldest is six, and this is something I'm constantly learning every single day. They have laptops to do homework. There's computers that are necessary in the education system now. So it's not a fact, it's not a matter of well, we shouldn't expose them to whatever. There is YouTube, and there are channels on YouTube specifically for kids. And they go to school and they all their friends. Are you saying what they are watching, and you don't want your child to feel left out, but you have to also police what they are watching online, and there's some YouTube for kids that the content on those channels starts to stray into something you don't want a six-year-old to watch. So I'm just like, well, is and then the time limitation is only limited to watching any screen on weekends, not more than three hours. And he gets to pick the three hours. You want it in the afternoon or late evening, nothing after 7 p.m. And so on and so on and so on.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

So it's yeah, I I would recommend do it together. That's the beauty. It's family time. Pick up a movie and watch it together for three hours and make it special. This is our movie time, okay, and give them options. What do you want? Do you want popcorns or maybe something that they are not allowed to eat and they can eat during during movie time? Of course, it has to be age-appropriate movies, but they're good collections. That's how I pass time. Like my 11-year-old still loves to watch screens with me, like some series or movie that we would pick up and we'll watch together. It's such a nice bonding experience. But ask questions, make sure the movie teaching them values, and then I ask a lot, you know. So, what do you think about this character? How could she have navigated her life better? What mistake did she do? What did you learn out of it? Then it becomes educational and it becomes family connection. Uh, YouTube, I really don't know. Like, especially make sure it's not on autoplay. Um, YouTube Kids is also not 100% secure.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

We we even use YouTube Kids, not the main YouTube, and that one you can select the age, you can because the age content is baked into each um section you pick, and so on. So, yeah, and you can set a time limit on YouTube Kids. Okay, okay, maximum one hour, and then it comes back and says, Can I have can I have an extension? I'm like, No, this is your second extension.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

So you're building strength, I think that's okay. These are life skills. Just take it positively. It's a life skill that I'm teaching my child. And imagine your six-year-old being 16-year-old, being totally independent, with screen, doing all the homework. So you are teaching that 16-year-old that in next 10 years you need to have lots more self-control and just don't expect success the first time. It takes time, it's not a meltdown. You need to train them and make it fun like a game. Um, if you have more than one child, it's also fun to make the make it like a game. Okay, we are competing. Who can spend less time on YouTube on screen time? That child wins, and of course, they would try to come out with excuses. That's fine. Make it make a chart, okay. This is the screen time, and you know, let's say your child, your your oldest one spend two hours, and the youngest one also for younger children, they need to spend way less time on screens as little as possible before the age of two years. Um, and I would say just involve them in looking after each other. Siblings are also a great gift, and share your own journey if you have had good experience with your siblings, how valuable siblings are, the older sibling looking after younger siblings, but most of the time they will mimic your behavior. So, how you treat the older child, they will treat the younger child like that. With lots of love, but be prepared for conflicts, it's a part of growing up, and I think I'm a really positive, optimistic person. I think the world would continue. There would always be more light than darkness. It's just up to us whether we want to look at the light or the darkness. Media will always portray there is darkness and only darkness because that's how they make money. This is what people get pulled to because the fear factor is so strong. It comes out of the intuition and motivation to protect their family, but it basically sucks them. So stay away from negative news, from bad news. A lot is happening. You can't take that much bad news being a human in these seconds. So stay away from it as much as possible, but at the same time, focus on the light. Talk good, talk positive, talk about kindness, your own values. Set out values as your family. What are your family values with your children? Involve them in conversation and shared decision making. Um, and just make sure rules should also apply to parents, not just children.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

Thank you. Thank you so much for that. And hopefully, I would want to have you on again, maybe sometime later in the year, and continue the conversation, basically.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

Absolutely. I would love to. And thanks for having me, Bed. I enjoyed the discussion so much. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

Thank you so much. Talk to you soon.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

Okay, bye-bye.