The Truth About Addiction | Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C

Join Tiffanie as she delves into the world of addiction recovery with Andrew Levander, a licensed marriage and family therapist and founder of the Encino Recovery and Detox Center (seen on Oprah and Dr. Phil). With 25 years of experience and a personal journey of recovery from opiates and alcohol, Andrew shares insights into the complex dynamics of addiction, emphasizing the importance of treating not just the individual but the entire family. Discover how enabling behaviors can inadvertently perpetuate addiction and learn about the significance of supervised detoxification.
Andrew sheds light on the often misunderstood withdrawal process, explaining the life-threatening risks associated with alcohol and benzodiazepine withdrawal, while debunking myths about opiate withdrawal. He also highlights the advancements in medication-assisted treatment, which allow individuals to transition from illicit substances to prescribed medications without halting their lives.
Through candid discussions, Andrew reflects on the internal battles faced by those with substance use disorders and the profound impact of trauma, particularly childhood trauma, on addiction. He shares the philosophy of his treatment center, which focuses on addressing the underlying issues fueling addiction rather than merely treating the symptoms. . He also touches upon the challenges of integrating digital detox into recovery programs, emphasizing the necessity of creating a safe and distraction-free environment for healing.

Andrew's heartfelt narrative is a testament to the power of relationships and the possibility of recovery. With a mission to help individuals reintroduce themselves to their true selves in a loving way, Andrew and his team are dedicated to providing compassionate, comprehensive care to those seeking a path to sobriety.

How to contact:
https://theencinodetoxcenter.com/
https://licasatreatment.com/
Encino Recovery and Detox Center 833-433-2435

Transcript

48.7% of Americans 12 years old and older battled substance use disorder

>> Tiffanie: According to the 2023 U.S. national Survey on Drug Use and Health reported 48.5 million people, that is 16.7% of Americans 12 years old and older, battled a substance use disorder in the last year. This is such an important topic. This is true crime connections. I am Tiffanie, your host. And joining me this week from the Encino Recovery and Detox center is Andrew Levander, who is a licensed marriage and therapy, who is a licensed marriage and family therapist. And you are out of California and Nevada. I want to thank you so much for being here.

>> Andrew Levander: Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for asking.

>> Tiffanie: There are so many things I love about your program. One of them that stand out to me is you don't just treat the person, you treat their family. And I think that is so important, especially because how many families actually enable their loved ones without even realizing it?

>> Andrew Levander: Yeah, there's a whole thank you for that. And it is a family disease, whether it's enabling, as you pointed out, which would be an example of like that this family system is enmeshed, they're intertwined with each other. And the opposite of that would be a, disengaged family. Each of them have their pluses and negatives, but it definitely impacts everybody. And I actually look at it in terms of if you love somebody who struggles with a substance use disorder, at some point you, that person's gonna feel like an emotional hostage to their loved one who is struggling with the addiction. It's like a damned if you do and damned if you don't. You don't wanna give money because you lost trust in your loved one two and a half years ago. It is, it's a tornado through a family as how people have described it. I mean even in my life it, I'd like to think that it was a, controlled tornado, but I think there's a, ah, bit of minimization and denial that I just sprinkled on top of my own. it's a horribly painful experience for everybody involved.

>> Tiffanie: Yes, absolutely. And I think it's so important that you do do detox under supervision. Three years ago I actually lost my stepfather to alcohol. He thought he could do it on his own and he did not succeed with that.

>> Andrew Levander: Yeah, I can't, I'm sorry to hear that. And I can't tell you how many people think the very same thing. Like it's just drinking. you know, I just, I'll just stop. For us alcoholics, it's not generally that easy. We all wanted to stop long before we eventually did but yes, it's one of two primary drugs of abuse that somebody could die during the withdrawal process. The first being alcohol. And the other one is benzodiazepines, which are the sedative hypnotic anxiolytic class of med. Ativan and Valium and Klonopin, that class of medication. Both of those, you can die.

>> Tiffanie: I would think heroin would be on that list.

>> Andrew Levander: No, no. When it comes to opiate addiction, the person feels like they're going to die. At times they wish, like they wish they would die. But there's generally not a significant risk of death from the withdrawal itself like there is with alcohol and benzodiazepines.

>> Tiffanie: Very interesting.

>> Andrew Levander: It's incredibly physically and emotionally painful.

>> Tiffanie: I could see how that could be. Absolutely. because your body is craving it and you're, you're so sick without it.

>> Andrew Levander: And you have the answer. You have the antidote. It's a, a battle inside that, that, that a person will fight with, themselves and other people. the answer is right over there. Or if you just give me my phone, I can call a person that I know is holding that. I can just go get it. I can solve my own problem and I'm making this number up. But nine out of ten times the desire to solve one's own problem by using is going to win because it's not a matter of willpower or it's just. It's not about that. It's. This is a brain issue. Neurochemically are. Our brain is in pain and it knows what it wants.

>> Tiffanie: The way of survival for them.

>> Andrew Levander: 100%. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very as. Ah, we're talking about it. I've been in the field for 25 years and I am in recovery both for opiates and alcohol. And I forget sometimes what it, what it was, what it was really like, because it's been, it's been a lot a long time since I've had that I've experienced that type of pain. It's what keeps me sober. That in like the love for my wife and daughters and career and. But what keeps me sober is I don't, I don't ever want to experience that pain again. There's a, there's a saying for those who understand an explanation isn't necessary. And for those who don't understand an explanation isn't possible. And I really find that to be profoundly true with, with addiction that it is not something that can be explained to somebody who hasn't gone through it.

>> Tiffanie: 100% you don't understand the cravings, the ticks, the triggers, all of it.

>> Andrew Levander: Yeah. The shame, the decades of secrets. It's just, it's a mess. It's a chaotic way of living.

>> Tiffanie: Yes, absolutely.

>> Andrew Levander: I think a lot better on this side. It's a, it's a lot better and easier. I mean, again, for 25 years, I hear all the time, even here at treatment center in Los Angeles, I hear so often. I can't believe that I didn't try this sooner because it's not as difficult for most people as they built it up to be. I mean, it's hard. It's hard, but it's, it's really doable.

>> Tiffanie: That is great to know that. It's, you know, you build up this fear and once you actually get the proper help, it's not that bad.


One way to transition from illicit substance to medication is called maintenance

I think that could save so many people.

>> Andrew Levander: Yeah. Nowadays with the advances in. It's called mat medication assisted treatment. There's so many great medications that don't have to be used as a replacement. Like we're going to play replace Fentanyl with Suboxone. So people, used to say, so I just get addicted to the Suboxone instead of the. And it just, that's a story that, that we make up. It's, it doesn't have to be that way.

>> Tiffanie: I always wondered that.

>> Andrew Levander: yeah, it can be used either. It's called maintenance, which is you transition from the illicit substance like fentanyl or opiates to a doctor prescribed medication, Suboxone, Subutex. And the plan is, just to stay on it. And it's an incredible medication in that. And this is not an exaggeration. You can be addicted to heroin on, Friday morning and start, go through the induction process to transition from heroin to Suboxone under a doctor's care and you can go to the store in the afternoon. Like there's, there isn't that downtime. I'm kind of making light of it, which isn't my intention. But you don't have to stop your life to get well, I guess is the point that if any, if there is any point, you don't have to stop your life. we've come a long way with medication.

>> Tiffanie: I think that's a very important point to make because I always wondered that myself. Like, okay, so you're stuck on these pills, but now they're going to give you Suboxone, but now you get, you can get stuck on that. Like I've heard you have to get weaned off of that. So it's like you're just replacing one vice with another.

>> Andrew Levander: Yes, but there's, but there are some significant differences in being this. I mean the simple difference is it's not, doesn't have to be a secret anymore. You stop the shame, you stop the hiding, you stop shuffling money from one account to another account so that somebody doesn't see a charge from the ATM or all of that ends. If you have a headache, you take an Advil. And if you want to be well and sober, take your morning dose of Suboxone or whatever you kind of work out with, with the doctor. And the other way to do it is not as a replacement but as a part of a harm reduction model which is from illicit substance to doctor prescribed, like Suboxone, for an identified period of time, like you know, a month, for two months, we're going to go from 8 milligrams down to 6, down to 4, down to 2, down to 1, and titrate it out of one system. And for millions of people, millions, that works.

>> Tiffanie: Better than the alternative.

>> Andrew Levander: It is, it is certainly better than the alternative. It is a, a lonely, isolating, self reinforcing, compulsive life ending problem to have addiction. It's, it's what I was starting to say before that it's, it's been so long. But in having conversations like this, which I'm grateful for, it reminds me and should remind all of us in recovery not, not to forget what, what it was like and not to get overconfident and think that we can do it. At least that's, that helps me.


Since I stopped drinking, I have not relapsed

>> Tiffanie: I love how you say that relapses are not failures.

>> Andrew Levander: Oh, absolutely not. Absolutely not. I, I will say most. Well, lots of us in recovery hear things like relapse is a part of recovery. Well, I don't, that's not true for everybody. The day that I stopped drinking, I, have not relapsed since that day. I don't think it's a matter of luck. I don't think it's a matter of the way that I put it, at least to myself, because it's been helpful. Is drinking is not something I do anymore. It's, I guess, maybe a strange way of speaking, but if somebody were to say, do you want to drink? There isn't anything for me to think about because I don't drink anymore. So there's not the option for myself, which is really. It makes things easier not to have an option in certain things.

>> Tiffanie: Oh yeah.

>> Andrew Levander: Like I, I don't have to think about anything. It's not what I do. So I did the same thing when it came to when I quit smoking. You, you plan for it. You start.


I'm a big believer that relationships are the antidote to all things

I'm a big believer that for some of us, the biggest thing that's wrong with us is the way that we think about us and the way that we talk to ourselves and that chatter in, in our heads. We all would probably agree regarding, like a bad neighborhood. Well, we'll, we'll give it a test here. Would you agree that for any bad neighborhood you probably shouldn't go to a.

>> Tiffanie: Bad neighborhood, they'll tell you you shouldn't go.

>> Andrew Levander: But, if you had to go, would you agree it would be best not to go alone?

>> Tiffanie: Yes.

>> Andrew Levander: That's how I think of, when we're having conversations. When I have a conversation with myself, my brain can be a bad neighborhood. And I have 55 years of examples of why it's a bad neighborhood. When I go alone. I kind of have a, historically a really great aptitude for thinking myself into a corner. I have literally on my desk right now, I have this wood sign that says hold on while I overthink this. as, times like this, I, I laugh about it. there are times where, it, it's just too much mental processing.

>> Tiffanie: So I think everyone can identify with that because that's the voice that just doesn't shut up. it does not go away. And you've got to retrain how it speaks and it's difficult, but it can be done.

>> Andrew Levander: Yeah. Most of us tend to think that if we like. Well, I saw it on the Internet, it must be true. Well, I thought about it this morning. It must be true. And I, I was so. It was a life changing experience when I realized after it had been pointed out a hundred times to me that just because I think it doesn't mean that it's true. I love that we have 60 to 70,000 thoughts a day. Researchers have, I've heard if all of it was true or if we had to pay attention. I don't really know how to say this. There's way too much information that, that, that goes on in our heads on, in any given day and we all have private thoughts that it's terrifying to think, oh my God, what if that happened? Or what if that's true? can't they say we can't help what we think, but we, we do have a say on the actions that we take?

>> Tiffanie: Absolutely.

>> Andrew Levander: Thankfully, yes.

>> Tiffanie: That ran the show a lot of time. We'd be in a lot more trouble than we are now.

>> Andrew Levander: Yeah. It's good for. To have like, a personal assistant, whether that's a best friend or a partner or whoever. I have two people in my life, and, I'm grateful for that. Can tell me the truth. And, nine out of ten times, I will not get defensive. And I can hear it because I trust that it is coming from a loving place. And I've got two. Again, I feel fortunate.

>> Tiffanie: It's very important. You have to have somebody in your corner. You do.

>> Andrew Levander: Yes, but not that Just is going to sugarcoat things and be a yes person. At least for me. I need to be told when I'm full of shit because I'm not always aware.

>> Tiffanie: Right.

>> Andrew Levander: That part. That's the part that I'm highlighting. Yeah. This is just too much m. Too many. Too much potential for consequences. So I think it's on our website. It says.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, go ahead.

>> Andrew Levander: No, I, was just going to say on our website, there's a very simple phrase that says relationships are the antidote, period. And then, it says to everything. And there isn't anything I believe more than that. And by belief, I mean, nobody could change my mind on it. I feel really rigid about. Relationships are the antidote to all things. Might not be the current relationships in our life. We might need to get out of some toxic connections we have and, make some new ones. But we're not designed to do this alone, go through life alone.

>> Tiffanie: Right. Absolutely.


I do believe that trauma and addiction go hand in hand

That kind of leads me to. I do honestly believe that trauma, especially childhood trauma and addiction pretty much kind of go hand in hand.

>> Andrew Levander: I, couldn't agree more. They're like cousins. They're so closely related.

>> Tiffanie: Yes. Now I know, like, you've been on Oprah, Dr. Phil, all that. Helping people, trying to see where did I want to go with that. You see all different walks of life. You see every different angle of why people need the things that they need. Do you, like, find certain people kind of give more resistance? Like maybe people who are like celebrities, athletes, politicians. Like, do they come into the facility and, kind of like, do you feel like you get more resistance from them?

>> Andrew Levander: No. That's a very interesting question, because I actually find the. I find the opposite. When you put everything aside, all of our stories are different. but the one thing that connects all of us, especially anybody who's survived a trauma, is we all are in this club that we didn't want to belong to. We all know what pain feels like. The kind of pain that you can't talk about, you don't want to talk about. It's scary to talk about. You don't know if you're using the right words when you do talk about it. That's what's universal is the pain. So to your point, whether somebody is famous or not famous, lives in a mansion, or is homeless, there is a common experience of the emotional pain that comes along with trauma. The more complex the trauma, the deeper and more entrenched the pain tends to be. But maybe you've experienced this. You ever meet somebody and you just get a sneaky suspicion that they've got a story that might not be that different from yours. Or like, I get this sense sometimes, like, man, if I didn't know any better, I would swear that that person has gone through some heavy shit in their life. I think we tend to be sensitive to it in other people. And I, guess professionally that's helped me as a clinician. Back to the other statement about. For those who understand an explanation isn't necessary, that that leads to profoundly significant therapeutic connections. When the person doesn't have the burden of worrying if the person they are contemplating talking to, if that person's gonna understand. If you move that out of the way, the relief that comes from speaking, just learning to talk again, and not having to be so afraid. It's. It's why I love being a therapist. It's, It's. Everything that I wanted. Wanted to do, was to be available to somebody else, who was in pain. And especially as a man, because that really doesn't get talked about a lot. Are the male m. Survivors of childhood sexual abuse in particular? We do not get a lot of air time. And. And yet the statistic is 1 in 6 boys, before the age of 18, whereas the statistic for girls is 1 in 4, which is staggering. And it's a shameful statistic in this country, very much so. It is far too common. And we don't talk about it. And, I do, why this is so I feel important to talk about. One, because people are not. And two, we see a lot of people at our treatment center that have been to treatment before, and a lot of them have the experience. When they leave, we will get in, like, client satisfaction survey. They'll say things like, I've been to treatment four times, and this is the first time I have felt comfortable enough to talk about what happened to me. Or so grateful that there was a group just for what I struggle with. And I've Been to therapy for, you know, 10 times or what, whatever the number is, it's just not being talked about. So I actually make the assumption that for the men that come here, I assume that they are trauma survivors, as opposed to wondering if they've experienced a trauma, whether it's. I mean, all of us have experienced trau. Traumatic. Have had trauma in our life. But the, you know, the one in that we're talking about, it's so specific and kind of over there for a lot of people. But we don't. We. We. We bring it out. I. On Monday, today's Friday. On Monday, we had, an intake. And I just got a sense that. That the type of pain that this man who, Who. Who just got here was in, it was just crushing. And one of the first things you said is you like that we treat the person or, the family more than that is we don't treat addiction. We treat people who have a problem with addiction as well as a problem with other things as well. And so we, for example, don't. We don't sit around and talk a lot about drug use. it's not what's wrong. It's what got them in the door. And it's been a needed. Oftentimes a needed, detour around. I just call it the big ugly. The big ugly in a person's life. So we. We make sure to. To create some space for the things to be talked about that have never been talked about, if for no other reason than to prove to a grown man that nothing bad happens if you talk about it.

>> Tiffanie: I think that's so important. I talk about it on my show. I actually had a lot of survivors, male and female, come on and tell their story. So other people who are going through this know that you're not alone. Other people are going through it, and you. You can get better. But I think that's 110%. The addiction happens because you're trying to cover up something else. That's where the addiction came from, because something happened, and that was just your bandaid to try to get through it. So I love that you guys actually focus on the problem because some people like some treatment centers, they just want to focus on the addiction, but you're not fixing what caused the addiction to take place.

>> Andrew Levander: Yeah, and look, we have to be really careful to not open up a, you know, it's a giant can of worms, and we only have them for 25 to 30 days. And so it is a.


It is a complicated decision to make that we make with our clients

It is a complicated decision to make that we make in kind of partnership with our clients. Like almost like, are you sure you want to go here? And then to lay out what is a reasonable expectation. So if you open up something for the first time that you've never talked about and you're 50 years old and you've been carrying this around for 40 years, there's no two ways around it that it is, it is painful and uncomfortable. So let's align expectations, work really hard on aftercare plans so that you're not alone, more vulnerable without your coping mechanism anymore because you want to be sober and a, new type of vulnerable. And so I, I certainly agree. On the one hand it's great that we have special programming and groups that I run that are called homogeneous, which just all men or homogeneous groups that are all women, just for the men. And we do the same thing for women when needed as well. It just needs to be really thoughtful and planned out. And I think that's why a lot of treatment centers, to their credit, our primary responsibility is to medically attend to people's medical detox needs in from one week to a month to free them up to go do the deeper work when they finish this part of treatment that is completely reasonable and thoughtful as well. What I'm finding is that when a man here feels like it's time to talk about it and that I'm not going to judge them and the other men in the group aren't either. They've been waiting for a really long time to dump this. And I don't want to, I don't want to miss an opportunity either. So maybe, and this is a new thought, I try not to be afraid of it, of what might happen. because I can't, I can't control what might happen. But I can let them know that. I mean we're literally open 24 hours a day with staff 24 hours a day. It won't be left alone, somebody to talk to all the time. So I, wish that there were, that I had something like this available when I was going through my, my stuff.

>> Tiffanie: Sounds like a very well rounded program.

>> Andrew Levander: Yeah. You know the it for 25 years, I, the short, short story is, I didn't know that I, I didn't think I was going to survive my childhood. And that's not like hyperbole or exaggeration. And I had lots of struggles. And when I was 14, my, my mother said one night, let's go shopping after dinner. Okay. And we ended up in a Therapist parking lot. And it was a kind of an intervention because at 14 I was, I was just a mess and incapable of keeping all the plates spinning anymore. And so I saw this therapist and I remember thinking his name was Rick Tivers. And it changed my life. the North Shore of Chicago. I remember thinking, there's gotta be a catch here because it seems like all this guy wants to do is be helpful. Like that's a job. And you get paid for trying to help people who are depressed or whatever the case may be. And I thought, I thought that was remarkable that you could get paid for being sensitive, which had always been kind of used as name calling in regards to me. Like, you know, Andy, you're so sensitive or you're too sensitive. And. And it looked like there maybe was some hope that my sensitivity could lead to, something better and something helpful, not just for myself, but for other people as well. And I thought, if I do get out of childhood, I'm going to look into this. And then that happened and I went to grad school and did what everybody else does. Who wants to become a therapist. And I remember thinking, one day I'm going to have a place and I'm going to call it the Healing House of Los angeles. And about 15 years ago I did open the Healing House of Los Angeles. And it was a, it was a very private, small outpatient treatment center for, adolescent and adults who struggle with self injury, who like cut, burn, scratch that kind. Also incredibly connected to childhood trauma. And those services weren't available. and then I thought about, well, that's a very specific population of people. Could some of the thinking that went into coming up with the Healing Nurse, could that be applied to other groups of people as well? And then, my own addiction in recovery. And so for 25 years I've been thinking about if I had a place, everybody would have their own room. If m. I had a place, there would be plenty of room outside to get away to be if you need quiet, but not too far away from people, if you shouldn't be alone or don't want to be alone. And so we put together the Encino detox in large part around that. The vision that's been swimming around in my head for a long time and the tagline, if you, if we. It's not. We don't really have one. But this is all I, all I've ever wanted to do as a therapist was to help reintroduce people to themselves in a more loving way. That was the goal and all of our therapies, and whether they're evidence based or evidence informed, they're all designed around that one thought. Will this experience potentially help reintroduce this person to themselves in a more loving way? And I couldn't be more proud of the work that all of us here do, including the clients who do such hard work on themselves. But to me, that's the trick. That's. That's what it takes, is we have to figure out how to not continue to beat the shit out of ourselves for things that weren't kind of our fault to begin with, but that most of us take responsibility for.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, God, that just touched me. I commend you so much. I think what you're doing is amazing. The m. Fact that you had these visions so long ago, and then you were able to bring them into life and with such passion and caring for other people, literally. You are amazing.

>> Andrew Levander: Cool. Thanks. Thanks.

>> Tiffanie: Should be very proud of yourself.

>> Andrew Levander: Thank you. Times like this, I definitely do feel that.

>> Tiffanie: Good. You deserve it.

>> Andrew Levander: Yeah. Thank you.

>> Tiffanie: Yes.

>> Andrew Levander: Yeah. It's been, a lot of. A lot of work.

>> Tiffanie: Nothing good comes easy. I'm learning that.

>> Andrew Levander: That certainly seems to be true.

>> Tiffanie: Yes.


I think we're starving for connections, despite information and technology

Was there anything else that you wanted to add?

>> Andrew Levander: I guess just because it's come up kind of naturally and it's such a. An easy, important point that you pointed out first. The reminder to people that we get better. and we do. I have been writing a book. I've been writing a few of them in my head for a really long time. I feel I have a lot to say. But now that I'm, I guess, at, 55, which I'm asking somebody to redo the math because I don't think the math is right. I can't possibly be 55. One of the books that I've started and is now, They're actually typed words, not just in my head. It's called. Right now, it's called foraging. The longing of lonely children. And it is a look at, I guess, a word of the day. For me, that. A juxtaposition. It's the re. The reuse of the word foraging, which is often or, almost, I guess, always thought of as the searching for food and kind of sustenance. In this case, the foraging that lonely children, are on the hunt for is much different than how we normally look at it. I foraged for pills and, distractions and isolation. I looked for things that were the opposite of what I found. I really needed to be okay in the world. Which are other people. Connection, not isolation and despair, not pills, not booze. And we, no, more than ever, we are drowning, I think, in information and technology. Literally, drowning in it. We have computers in our pockets, and yet, despite drowning in information and technology, I think we're starving for connections. And, the evidence of that seems to be all of these new apps that pop up all the time that are specifically designed to connect people. Sometimes healthy, sometimes not healthy. But we definitely are a society of people searching for connection. And. And there's something to it. I haven't figured it out yet, but we haven't figured it out yet. I don't think it's in the palm of our hand in, our phones.


A deal breaker to staying in treatment for many addicts is cell phone access

Something that shocks me that I try my best to understand. A deal breaker to staying in treatment for so many of our clients is whether or not they can have their phone while they're here for anywhere from a week to four weeks. And the amount of people that say, I'm not staying if you don't give me my phone is staggering. Wow. To the point where we have meetings after meetings after meetings on what do we have to do differently instead of trying to get other people to bend and fold around our idea of a, digital detox as being both beneficial in a person's life and safe for this recovery community. Like, what, what part of the country are you in?

>> Tiffanie: I'm in Florida.

>> Andrew Levander: So in. I don't know if you have this in Florida, but in California, we have weed maps and we have drug delivery services, but they're not called drugs anymore because it's legal. So I can go on my phone to weedmaps.com and I can order marijuana delivered to my house, and it's all perfectly legal because marijuana is legal in California. And when we didn't have a phone rule that was happening, our detox delivery drivers were showing up with deliveries of large, quantities of different types of marijuana. And it was shocking and scary, and I felt like I was in Twilight Zone. And it reminded me that I'm 55 and I guess a little out of touch. But in order to create a safe environment, we, we had to act, we had to do something. And so it's just the energy put into combating. Like, I don't want to argue with somebody. If it's your time to be well, that's okay. God bless. Don't die. Give us a call if you change your mind. I don't want to power struggle with people, but I also don't want to argue with with people about a phone.

>> Tiffanie: That's another addiction.

>> Andrew Levander: Ah.

>> Tiffanie: Your phone is another addiction. Absolutely.

>> Andrew Levander: It would certainly seem that way with people choosing, to continue to struggle with their addiction because they don't, they can't keep their phone on them. I try not to be judgmental about it, but the truth is I feel judgmental about it. But again, it, where I've kind of landed with it is it, it might not be that person's time to be. Well, I have to get, I think you can get sober and have your cell phone. But this is, we're a licensed and accredited 12 bedroom kind of luxury, safe community and I'm responsible to keep it a safe community. And one of the ways that, at least so far that we've, that we're trying to do that is to limit cell phone access. Everybody can use their phone, like with the case manager or their therapist or but just free access, it's too, it's too triggering for people and everybody's an adult here. I don't want to take up people's time arguing about, put your phone away. It's, you're in therapy, for God's sake. So, I, don't know. It's. I, I feel like I'm, I'm, I'm talking about so much that it's a giant problem. I think because I'm so surprised by it still. Like really, we're gonna, you, we're gonna have to talk about your phone again. If there isn't anything else to talk about. We should probably talk about that in therapy on Tuesday. It's just a tremendous opportunity that we have. And I think that's what I feel passionate about is I don't wanna waste the opportunity because we are, us, drug addicts are impulsive, impulsive people. And so if somebody from 10 minutes is like, I am ready to go to treatment, we gotta be, we gotta be ready because it's gonna change. And I don't wanna, I don't wanna miss the window. But this conversation has reminded me of something that I tend to do and that is I can't work harder than the client. And sometimes I do because I want them to see the miracle of this whole thing is, attainable. And it's not as hard as we make it up as we think it's going to be. And I wish that I could package that and just give it to people. I haven't, I haven't found a way to do that yet.

>> Tiffanie: I could see how that would be a problem for sure, because it's those outside influences that are influencing them do the bad things or triggering them to say, oh God, I need to have a drink or this or that. And so there needs to be no interruptions, no interference. So sometimes I do believe that phone usage is an addiction in itself, but it's also a cop out. Oh, you won't let me do this, this or this. Well, then I'm not going. Makes it easier for them to say, okay, then I'm not going to do it.

>> Andrew Levander: Yes. If somebody, I, I find. If somebody's. Look, if somebody is foraging for a reason to not take really good care of themselves, there's, it's very, it's easy. They'll find something, whether it's the cell phone or the food that our chef makes or our sheets are too scratchy, or they don't like 12 steps or they. People don't have to work that hard. They don't have to stay. They're not required to be here. It's voluntary. It's like in 12 step meetings. There's just if you want what we've got, and that's all on, some level. It's that simple. If you want what a lot of us who work here, if you want some of what we've got, let us help you with your thinking for a few weeks. Your best thinking got you here. So clearly you could benefit from some help with your thinking.

>> Tiffanie: That's a good point.


The insinodetox center helps people get treatment for addiction

>> Andrew Levander: Yeah. Yeah. Other than that, I mean it, we're pretty easy to find online. The insinodetox center.com we have an 800 number is 833-433-2435 which translates to 4 EDC help. I don't know. I got excited that day when I got that phone number. And you know, again, we're, we're, we, we answer our phones 24 hours a day and people don't have to suffer in silence anymore if they don't want to. And even if for some reason we can't help, we are really good at finding somebody who can. We have a lot of partnerships in Los Angeles area as well as around the country of places that we really like and trust that we feel do good work. And even if somebody just calls and they don't want to come to California, we'll help you find a place wherever, wherever they live.

>> Tiffanie: That's great. I love that. I'm going to make sure that I put the link and the phone number in the show notes. So anyone who's Interested? Yeah. They can find you easily because help is out there. You just have to be willing to receive it.

>> Andrew Levander: Yeah, we work with most insurance companies. I don't know that we've ever not worked it out. This is a strange time of year when it comes to insurance. Everybody's deductibles are about to reset at the first of the year, but we try not to let that be a barrier for getting some help. So we will do whatever we can to help people kind of remove the barriers so, they can access treatment. People don't have to wait until New Year's resolution, which I know they're not going to follow anyways. That's the pessimist in me. So, I mean, you could change. People can, you know, choose to change your life today and have to wait until the 1st of January. But again, it's, it's not, not a hard sell. We, we're always open. So happy to, be helpful if we can.

>> Tiffanie: Yes. I mean, you guys are doing such great work. It's.

>> Andrew Levander: Thank you.

>> Tiffanie: Put the damn phones down and just go fix yourself. Your phone will be there when you're done, but you probably don't even want to talk to any of the people who are in it when you're done. So.

>> Andrew Levander: Yeah. Or it's not a good idea in the first place. And you know, with all this talk about the phones, I've like, annoyed myself with it. Sorry for your listeners if it's like work related or you want to, you know, not disrupt your connection with your kids and nighttime routine. We're not, we're not rigid like that. We just, we'll have a conversation about it and figure it out so we can, we can help solve most issues.

>> Tiffanie: Get the throw out there. There you go.

>> Andrew Levander: Yeah. And thank you for the work that you're doing and bringing attention, to very private yet important topics. If nothing else, highlighting that people get better and it's not. Doesn't have to be a lifelong definition for somebody. We just have to think about it differently.

>> Tiffanie: Absolutely. Which is doable. It's possible.

>> Andrew Levander: Yeah. Yeah. I did it. You did it. It sounds like it happens to so many goddamn people that clearly people are finding their way.

>> Tiffanie: Yes. Thank God. Yeah. All right, well then thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate this. And, I appreciate you being vulnerable with your own story. I mean, that's just amazing. So thank you.

>> Andrew Levander: Yeah, you're welcome.