I Found Out the Truth About My Dad's Murder!

When Lt. JG Burr Johnson III was murdered aboard a U.S. Navy ship in Pearl Harbor, his daughter was just two years old. The government went silent. The killer disappeared. And for over 30 years, no answers came.

In this powerful true crime episode, Allicia Johnson Niles shares her journey to uncover the truth behind her father’s death—revealing a shocking military cover-up, emotional trauma from unresolved grief, and a spiritual connection that helped guide her search.

In this episode:
✅ What it’s like growing up haunted by a murder with no answers
✅ How a spiritual connection to her father led her to the truth
✅ Why unresolved childhood grief often becomes lifelong trauma
✅ The shocking moment she realized the Navy knew more than they said
✅ How her healing helped other sailors who served with her dad
✅ How the U.S. Navy buried the truth about a murder on the USS Richard S. Edwards
✅ What it’s like to spiritually connect with a parent you never got to know
✅ How Allicia’s investigation led to her father’s killer—and peace


🟨 Trigger Warning: Military murder, PTSD, childhood trauma, grief, spiritual themes.

How to connect:
https://www.unlikelycourage.com/
https://www.angelinarlington.com/

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction: A Father's Mysterious Death
• 1:39 Meet Alicia Johnson Niles
• 2:13 Allicia's Early Struggles and Turning Point
• 3:39 The Search for Truth Begins
• 6:55 Uncovering Government Secrets
• 13:40 The Role of TAPS and Community Support
• 17:45 The Impact of Grief and Healing
• 24:30 Struggles with Identity and Grief
• 24:47 Coping Mechanisms and Bullying
• 25:12 Unresolved Grief and Family Dynamics
• 27:18 Spiritual Connections and Healing
• 31:37 Writing the Book and Seeking Justice
• 34:20 Spiritual Experiences and Family Support
• 41:14 Final Thoughts and Resources

Transcript

 What if your father was murdered while serving in the Navy and no one would tell you why for decades it was buried, but the truth doesn't always stay buried forever

  📍  

Final Thoughts and Resources

 imagine being a little girl and learning that your father, an officer in the US Navy was murdered, not by an enemy on foreign soil, but by someone on his own ship, and then the killer vanished without a trace. Tonight's guest lived that nightmare. Alicia Johnson Niles was just a child when her father was shot and killed.

Aboard the USS Richard S. Edwards in Pearl Harbor. The case was buried in silence. The US Navy went quiet, and for decades, Alicia carried the weight of trauma, grief, and a thousand unanswered questions. But she didn't stay silent, fueled by heartbreak, spiritual connection, and a burning need for truth. Alicia did what no one else dared. She uncovered what really happened abroad that ship. Her book, angel in Arlington is more than a memoir. It's a courageous investigation into government secrets, generational pain, and the power of a daughter's love to seek justice.

She's here tonight, not only to share her story, but to show us what healing looks like when you stop waiting for closure and start creating it yourself. Please welcome, author, speaker, and survivor, Allicia Johnson Niles. Hello.

Hi Tiffanie. You wrote that? That was beautiful. That intro. Sorry. That intro was awesome. Like I'm proud of my little intro, but I know it by heart almost, but you, wow. Bravo. Very well put. You're an author too, then I take it.

Um, in the making.

Awesome. But well, yeah, that's, anyway, thank you. Thank you for such a beautiful introduction. That's awesome. And thank you for having me.

This really intrigued me because when your father passed, like, not only were you a child, but you were a newborn, right? Or pretty close to it.

I was two years old. I just turned two. My brother was eight months old, so

Okay.

yeah, but still no memories at all. Not a single memory of my dad, but yeah, it's.

The government. One thing they're good at is keeping secrets for their own.

They definitely are. I mean,, I've got mixed feelings actually. I've got a very kind of, , I don't know if it's unpopular opinion, but in my, I feel like it's realistic in some ways. I mean, I'll just share it right now. It's with my experience in dealing with the government and dealing with the Navy, they're very, very, very, very, very good people. But it's also a very, very flawed system. So, you know, it was just, there was a lot of up and down and emotional obviously. I mean, I was trying to find out what happened to my dad and they were, would not give me anything. But then along the way it was just beautiful to find people who's actually like, wanted to help. Like they were public servants in every sense of the word. They lived it, they live it. I was not surprised at the coverup. I was not surprised at the stonewalling. But when I came across those few beautiful people, that surprised me and that changed everything.

How old were you when you started trying to tackle this?

, It was a slow process. The turning point was, was when I was 30 years old growing up, I struggled with a lot of identity issues and securities eating disorders. My dating life was an absolute train wreck and, , all I really ever wanted was to get married and have kids. And, you know, of course I'm 30 years old. I'm like, what's wrong with me? Why am I not meeting anybody? What's going on? I mean, it's not like that's all I focused on, but at the same time as I was living life, I'm like, I can't hold a relationship together for anything. And I'd have some people tell me, you know, you can't tell anybody about your dad, or you're broken, or there's something wrong with you. I had this narrative that there was something wrong with me. , I was talking to this guy that I went out with this guy and he had just lost his mom, and he was just like, you know, I was like, well, yeah, my dad died when I was two years old, but that's different. Like, you know, it's, I don't have any feelings about him. It's okay. And he's like, he's like, are you kidding me? He's like, you have every right to miss your dad. He's like, I have memories of my mom. At least I have that. You have every right, every right to grieve him and. You know, I, growing up in grief and trauma, I'm sure you've, as you've talked to other guests, I'm sure you know when you deal with grief and trauma as a child, you're a people pleaser like case classic example right here. And it's not like I needed permission, but I kind of did like to have somebody that I wanted to impress. Somebody that was just like. Of course you have that right. You know where my whole life I had created this narrative that was just like, , he died before I could remember him. Of course, I can't love him.

He died. It had been almost 30 years. Of course I can't have those feelings and here I have this guy telling me, you have it right to that, when I had been feeling those feelings all along, and so with that permission, that social acceptance, for lack of a better term, I'm like okay. All right. So then the next thing he said was, you know, it's none of my business. Oh. asked me, he's like, so, , what happened to your dad? I'm like, well, he was a narcotics officer in the Navy and he's killed by a crazy guy who pled insanity and got away with it. Does that sound like a 5-year-old?

Yes. Because that's what I was told when I was five years old, and that's what I told everybody. he's like, and I'm like, that's all. he's like, where is he? And I'm like. I don't know. he's like, you really need to find out what happened. so again, somebody that I respected, somebody looked up to the first person ever to be like, you know what, not only did he give per me permission to have those feelings, he was also like, get out there and find it.

This is important. And like, of course my mom knew it was important, but she had moved, you know, I don't wanna say moved on. She still loves my dad. She is remarried. But you know, it's, it was just. That validation was like, okay, you know what? Why not? So then I started researching and yeah, it was a long wild, .

, Was a rollercoaster, to say the least, but it, , like I felt this divine connection, I felt guided. , I turned to the Navy and of course they're like, oh no, you know, sorry, we can't give you any information. It's been a long, very interesting road. So.

I mean, you're looking back for like 30 years of data, you know what I mean? Like I don't even know how long. The Navy would keep those kinds of records if it's like indefinitely or if they purge them, like kind of like medical records, you know, every seven to 10 years they dump your records. So it's just hard to say how much Yeah.

You would be able to find after that long. I.

That's a really good point. That's really, I appreciate you giving them the benefit, the doubt. , I will tell you that I can't remember what year it was, but there was a huge fire in the, , I can't remember the acronym for it, but it's a military record center or something like that. There's a big fire and it got rid of a lot of the records. , But when I called them, they're like, Nope. We can't give you any information. Nope. Sorry. so, , and to be honest, like digging in and trying to find out the information about my dad's killer, that happened, that was as I got into the research more. So the beginning was just kind of like reaching out, trying to find people who knew him, asking the basic questions.

, It was a really long process. , I didn't find out, find out all the answers, like the end of the, like what really happened, which, sorry, can't share that. 'cause that's the end of the book, my book. But I didn't find out like what really happened until four years ago. So.

wow.

like all the details, what really happened? Why did Carl Smiley kill my dad? You know, I didn't find all like all that out until just recently when some new pieces of information came forward. So, but as far as like keeping the records and things like that, they do have them. got them, but

Oh, good.

yeah.

good to know.

Yeah, I did get them. , It was a fight. It was like a several years fight, but I got them

was his murderer still alive?

, He was, yeah. So growing up, it carried this irrational fear that he knew who we were and something, you know, that he could come after us. But then there's this also this side of me that was just like, you know, the Boy Scout, whatever, like, oh, well, a murderer in the Navy. Of course they're going to put him behind my bars. , I just wanted to know what happened to it. So, you know, you're asking a little bit earlier when I said I, it wasn't until like the stonewalling happened later on. , When I did reach out, I'm just like, where is he? What's going on? You know, can you give me that information?

They're like, Nope. Which to be fair, it's somebody else, somebody else's life. But honestly, like This was my dad's killer. He murdered my dad. My family had every right to know where this human was and to be safe from him. You know, like we didn't know why he killed my dad. We didn't, was it drugs? Was it mental illness?

We had no idea. That was like the biggest question for so long. Drugs, mental illness. What happened? My mom was told it was homicide and ., We actually ended up finding out later that my dad's killer had been at large almost the entire time. So was,

That's crazy.

yeah, it, it was wild when I figured that out, it was,

, That's the one question, like everyone always wants to know why, like what was the motive? And people can't really rest in peace for the most part until they get that. Because, when you take somebody that you love, you better have a damn good reason for doing that.

Yep. , I mean, for the people who are watching, , you can see my dad off my shoulder. I mean, he has a picture on my shoulder. He was like, of course I grew up hearing stories about how wonderful Daddy was and. You know, of course he is my mom's sweetheart and just he loved you and oh, everybody loved him. then I'd hear sibling side of the story. Well, yeah, he is a little bit pushy older brother. He is the oldest of six. but he grew up East coast dancing lessons, like the whole high society, the whole nine yards prep school. And so, you know, he was, he was that bossy older brother. But then so many people were just like, oh, everybody loved him. And then I was like, how was he on the ship? One thing I can tell you is the men that I reached out to who are on a ship, they're just like, your dad was not a typical sailor. My dad's, several of the people that I've gotten in contact with, they were very similar. They were like, this is post-Vietnam.

, One of 'em who's a very dear friend, he was on his way to law school at the time when he ended up getting drafted. , So, you know, it's, it's not fair for me to say he wasn't your typical salty sailor, but they all told me that like he was a gentleman's gentleman. He was. You know, and so for word to get out, you'd think that somebody like that, like people would be up in arms, pun intended, , a man like that was taken on.

I mean, it was in Pearl Harbor, it was on his ship. He should have been safe there. It's not like he was out at war or anything like that. He was doing his officer duties when Smiley killed him. In front of more than one person that, you know, it's just, it doesn't make any sense. And then to find out years later, decades later, that, oh yeah, by the way, he's at large. What can I, what, you know, what can you tell me about him? Nothing. So it's just, it doesn't make sense, you know? , Statute of limitations, things like that. I believe that families have an absolute right to know. I also, I. To go back to what I was talking about a little bit earlier where it's like, you know what?

There's some things that I have to respect about the military, even though I don't like it. I mean, in certain situations you do keep quiet for a while, like if it's going to cause potential for anybody else to be killed, if it's going to cause national security or anything like that. when you sign, your name on that line. You're defending the country, so if it's going to cause any other problems, then yes, you can keep it quiet. but good grief, it was almost 30 years and no national security was compromised. it was either he was mentally ill or on drugs. he murdered my dad and he was at large. What happened? Who dropped the ball?

You know?

Right, and you would think maybe like the people who really did respect him when they got out, they might say something, but I mean, who's to say they didn't? And then that was covered up. You just never know. How deep the rabbit hole goes.

Yeah, it's, it's funny, I'm part of this organization called TAPS, tragedy Assistance Program for survivors. they're the most amazing life changing organization. Have you heard of Tiffanie?

I have,

Okay. So

and I saw that you're a member of it.

Are you, if you don't

I am not. 'cause I didn't know if you had to like be someone special.

A

I dunno.

a military survivor. you had a

Oh, okay. Yeah.

okay, you can volunteer. They have, they definitely love volunteers. They love donations too. No, just kidding that. Sorry. You could edit that part out. I'm not telling you to donate, I promise. . No, they are life changing. They abs being part of the organization absolutely changed my life.

, Having complex PTSD, like to say complex , post-traumatic stress. 'cause you know, they don't call it a disorder. I call it a disorder because it's something that it just.  but anyway it's pretty, deep. But, , there was nothing more validating than going to my first pap when I was, oh, good grief.

He had been gone for 40 years, so I was 42. , It was really cool because I walked in ready to, well, first of all, I was embarrassed to be there. , That's one thing about I. story, my grief, my experience is like, I don't, like I said, I don't have the right to miss him. I don't have the right to grieve. It's been too long. I'm broken. There's something weird about me, and so here I go to their national military survivor seminar in Washington, DC which of course my book's called Angel in Arlington. He, my dad's buried there. I'm slightly proud of it, but, , it was an opportunity to go back and visit its grave and also just help other people to be a voice for the kids. That was my, that was my intention. And I showed up and they're like, yeah, we know. We knew you were coming. And I'm sitting here thinking all these people, seeing all these little kids and all these people who had just lost their loved ones.

And I'm like, don't give me any of the free stuff. Don't you know, I'm not, I'm here to serve. and they're like, honey, you're here to heal. And I'm like no. And they're like, you'd be surprised at how quickly you will find somebody that you can relate to. sure. I'm, I'm the weird one, whatever. So I turn around, literally turn around and go, and I pick up my bag and my little lanyard, you know, because the convention things that they have going on. And this girl was standing there, she had her little stickers, you know how they have the, your name and they put the stickers on the badges. You know what I'm talking about? How they kind of have Yeah. And , she had adult child, the Navy. I'm like, oh. me too.

She's like, mine's different. My dad died when I was really young and I don't hardly remember him. I'm like, this was literally like, yeah. So I just gotten there. So that was really cool. Life-changing experience and more validation than I could ever have imagined. then fast forward to, how long has it been?

Like three? I think maybe,, after I got married it was two years, so two or three years ago. Anyway, , I didn't get married till I was 46. And of complex P-T-S-D-I. Those anxieties came roaring back, like worse than ever. And I couldn't understand why. I am like, you know, I finally found somebody who loves me and treats me well. What is wrong with me? What, why am I this kind of head case, you know, just paranoid about everything. And so I went back and we went to TAPS and Bob Delaney. Have you heard of him? He is, um,

That sounds really familiar.

he's amazing. , He. Was an NBA ref for a really, really long time. But before that, he was an undercover cop in New Jersey and he worked with, , the Mafia. So he's an expert in post-traumatic stress. And, , anyway, I talked to him. Long story short, , it just, it cut my anxiety in half both times. So having that validation, having people who understand you community is I would say as far as importance, as far as like healing and things like that, having community is right up there. I would say, you know, validation, community and therapy are the three things that life changing. Good therapy, you have to have a good therapist 'cause there's some that are not. So anyway.

. That's what I tell my listeners all the time is. Listen, you don't have to like the first one you get. You don't have to like the second, third, or fourth, but don't give up because you're gonna find somebody who's going to work for you. Don't give up on yourself.

Yeah, exactly. And believe in miracles. Believe you. You can be led to that person because I believe that, you know, higher power of God, I believe in God, and it's like I felt directed to the right therapist who made all the difference. So.

Well, I am happy that you now validated yourself. It's a shame that you like harbored all those feelings for so long, 'cause I'm sure it did. It probably puts you on a destructive path with your relationships and it manifests into so many different ways and we don't even know it until so much later.

Yeah, it's true. , The wonderful thing is my mom, my family, I had such an incredible support system. , And I've definitely got some pretty strong soap boxes when it comes to, you know, everybody grieves differently, everybody raises their children differently, things like that. . So once I allowed myself to grieve, even once I started to experience like just the absolute freedom of being able to cry when I felt like I wanted to, , of course I wanted it for others, but like, you know, I was raised in a religious household, my mom would always talk about how. See, you know, we're gonna see daddy again. We have my, this picture up and other pictures up. And so the thing that that taught me was that he's really there. So here I'm saying, oh, poor me. I didn't have a connection. Well, and my little two, three, 4-year-old brain is just like, okay, there's a wonderful person.

It made it easy for me to connect with God and to be able to feel, you know, more of a, I have. 

a father in heaven who loves me. so, you know, not, I'm not saying he was the same person, but it made it for the little 3-year-old to be able to kind of feel that connection. More like just kind of having, you know, somebody up there who loves me.

And so I kind of had the same warmth, I guess, towards an idea of a heavenly father and a God. that might be kind of weird, but anyway. . You can cut that out. I'm like, that's a little deep. but my mom taught me how to be, you know, that my dad was there but in my own brain, like my anxiety was very, very real.

Like anytime anybody, anybody would leave, like anytime my mom would leave, I'd hold my breath until she made it back home and. Still to this day, my mind will immediately jump to worst case scenario. and growing up I was embarrassed about it. I thought that I was weird. I'm like, why can't I relax and enjoy this stuff?

What's going on? I was constantly comparing myself. , I. My mom comes from a really big family. I have a bunch of cousins my age, a bunch of girl cousins my age. We're really, really close friends. I compared myself to them. , I found out later that you know, when you're a toddler, everything is all about you. so as I look back, it's like I almost assigned myself as a second class person. I was so amazing. My daddy was taken because I wasn't good enough for him. And about 31. and I'm not saying that's absolutely truth, but from what I know about psychology and things like that, and you know, early childhood development, it makes total sense. And so, because I always saw myself as a second class person and I was always trying, that's where people pleasing came in. I was always trying to prove myself and my worth. So.

Do you find like truth in like that cliche or whatever, like daddy issues, do you actually think like there's. Something to that. Not having a dad kinda makes you act and do things differently than maybe you would if you, you did.

Yes and no. Well, actually that's a really good question. I've never had it put that way. I, I was always told I had daddy issues and so I haven't really liked that term. It's interesting 'cause that kind of brought that up. I'm like, Hmm. But, ,

no, I didn't read it that way.

no, no, no.

I know soon I said I like

Oh, no,

doesn't.

no, it's, no, I don't, I I have no filter, so You're fine.

You're totally good. I, I was not offended at all. . it Was when people would bring that up to me when it came to dating, I'd just be like wanting to give 'em the middle of the finger or go and cry or both, you know? , But daddy issues, , I guess maybe a way to rephrase it is, and I'm not saying you phrased it wrong, we can totally use daddy issues.

We can call it what it is. , But do I believe that children who grew up without a dad, , have different experiences and have to fight a little bit more for confidence? It depends on who the dad is. You could have an abusive dad, , you know, , we could go really deep here, but Yeah, I do.

I think, in a little bit of the research that I did, I actually, like when I was 30, I actually went back to college too and got my bachelor's degree. . And while I was doing that, I was like, I went into communication. So I was doing all sorts of basically self therapy, come to find out through my classes. But I did some digging into, okay why am I not dating? What is wrong with me? And is it because my dad died? And what I found out was children of bereaved children who have lost, , a parent, they do better than children of divorce. And the reason is, is like, , especially when you're so young, when it happens, half of your identity is your other parent for a very long time. And so children of divorce kind of see the flaws. They kind of see especially, , one thing that really, really hit me, and I don't wanna make anybody feel guilty by saying this or anything like that, but it doesn't matter if Daddy absolutely sucks, if Daddy was a nightmare. . Telling a little kid, you gotta be careful with what you say.

You know, it's like you cut daddy down in front of the little kid. They're gonna internalize it for a while, especially if they're really young. And so, know, children who have gone through divorce, they see the flaws in their parents. They also see, you know, especially if mom and dad are cutting each other down, they have to fight that much more for confidence.

Where with me, it's like Superman was my dad and half of who I was. , And my mom was wonderful. I must be the one who's inherently broken. If there's something wrong with me, it's all me. It's not because of how I'm made. Does that make sense?

. Yeah, that makes total sense.

yeah. So as far as like the daddy issues and, , from what I've learned, , there are some differences. with the things that was the worst for me. 'cause as you know, as we've gone over, I. had PTSD for a long time eating disorders. Dating was a train wreck. , Insecure second class person still fighting the, like, what's the word? Apocalyptic thinking, worst case scenario. , What that came from, in my opinion, is unresolved grief. And you had this little grieving kid. Who, so my mom got married, she married my stepdad when I was six, and he's wonderful. And, , they had five more boys, so I was the only girl. So I felt even more like the weird one, and I also turned to food for comfort. So we're talking chubby girl teased, oh, let me play my violin. But, all the things like the people pleasing the whole, you know, the, the tasing and all bullying. You get me starting talking about bullying. Yeah, it's, , yeah. kids could be awful. But, in a nutshell, what I was dealing with was this anxiety that I couldn't understand. Nobody knew what I was going through because Oh yeah, she's so lucky.

Her dad died before she could remember him. Oh, she was spirit that, you know, and even my mom thought that, so my mom gets married when I'm six. what do you do when you have a new dad in the home? picture goes down. That's one thing I will tell any parent, you know, make room for the new parent. Do not scrub it of the old one. Take your child aside and let them know, , you know, daddy's still important. We still love him, you know, and let him know. I mean, maybe have a place where you put the picture, but let them know that they have the right to talk about 'em. Because after my mom got remarried, my dad's picture was down half of who I was was gone. My daddy doesn't matter. I don't matter. And these aren't, again, these are things that, hindsight is 2020. I can see that happening now in the moment. I just felt it, you know? And so I stopped talking about him because he wasn't allowed in our life. And it wasn't until I was 11 years old and I. chubby me a little 11-year-old and, , from my overeating and my stepdad and my brothers, 

had 

gone somewhere and I started talking to my mom and the subject of my dad came up some really cool things happened.

It actually opened the door to my spiritual connection with my dad So there are a few pivotal moments along the way, really long story short, what I was dealing with was grief that nobody knew about my brother. Very, very handsome guy., People pleaser. He had his insecurities, he had things that he unresolved grief that nobody knew about, he actually, , had his connection, later on, like I think he was about 40 at the time when that happened. But again my whole point is just like you're dealing with grieving kids, grieve. And now that I have worked with TAPS, I've worked with other kids, I've become an advocate for children, grieving children. I see many versions of me all over the place, and they're just, longing for that connection. They're longing for, they feel embarrassed about their feelings. They feel embarrassed about like, well, how can I love somebody? I don't remember. why isn't this going away? . One of my best friends, her husband was killed 28 days before their, her only son was born. , , we were at TAPS and remember we were kind of walking past, like, there's a picture of him on my website actually. But, , she looked behind him and he was just kind of like, he was done, I think he was about seven or eight at the time. I'm like, you know what's wrong? And she's like, well, he's either tired, he's being a brat, or he's sad. And she walked over and I kind of, stayed back and, and then I saw these really sweet moments and I happened to take pictures and she's glad, and you know, I would've deleted them if she didn't like him, but he just fell into her shoulder and he is like, why can't I have my dad? And just started sobbing. And then we talked later on and I'm like, do you feel this way? Yeah. Do you feel this way sometimes? Yeah. And do you wonder this? And he's, yeah. And so my whole point is this like. Grief in little kids is so real, especially, and I would even, I dare say I haven't experienced this, but like loss of a young child, the loss, like stillborn, miscarriage, things like that.

Like , there's still that powerful level of love that's there that is like, I would almost say it's part of your DNA that's still there. And yet you don't have any memories. You don't have any, well, this is sounding heavy, but, but you know, it's like just being validated and allowed to know that that love is real and you're gonna feel it and you're gonna cry later and it's okay, so.

Gotta let it out. You have to

And

go through the process.

Yeah. Well, and even like. One thing that Bob Delaney told me, he's like, this anxiety's gonna pop up. You know, he's like, my anxiety still pops up and you just gotta know that it's a trigger and it's okay and you're normal. And one of the biggest things, like when I finally cried over my dad's death, that was the biggest relief of my life. , That's the strong statement, but, . The first time I cried over my dad's death. 'cause I, I was always afraid of what would it feel like if I was grieving? What would it feel like if I had that loss? I mean, am I still terrified of loss? Absolutely. Like it's, there is a reason therapy is a good thing, but like, , it's, I afraid of feeling those feelings and then when I finally did it was beautiful it was just like, oh my gosh, he's real and I'm trying to think of the way I'm trying to put it, but just like I'd been running from grief my whole life when I'd been grieving my whole life. So, and actually

I'm sure you felt so much lighter. That's a heavy thing to carry for so long. I.

it was a beautiful experience to be able to. Feel and just to know, you know, I have the right to love him. I have the right to miss him, and this feeling is real. So,

Of course you do that was your dad,

yeah, I didn't know him, but I knew him, you know? And then there's

right?

I was just

curious, like did he ever do any time or anything, or is that like all in the book and you're just keeping that hushed.

It

Okay. Gotcha.

It wasn't, , he was at large for a very, very, very, very long time. So it was kind of, and I found that out while I was writing the book actually. So, wait, my, my co-author interviewed him. We tracked down my co-author interviewed my dad's killer. So yeah, nothing to look forward to

Oh, well that's interesting. Absolutely.

., If anybody wants to get the book, is it Out Now? I remember on your website, I think it said it was okay.

We're, we are going traditional. We want to go traditional. , My co-author is a New York Times and international bestseller. it's good. it is a good book and a unique story. I mean, we're talking true crime, , military empowerment all the things combined into government coverup. It's a good book.

, I don't know when it will be out, but I'm hoping within a year or two. but with my website and everything like that, I mean, you can, I've got two websites. There's unlikely courage.com, it deals with more of the, , you face your demons when you, you've gone through trauma and you. Allow yourself to face them, then you experience this unlikely courage. 'cause I was this terrified little girl and all of a sudden I faced the Navy and my dad's killer. Like I had this courage, I didn't know it was even possible. So unlikely courage.com. And then there's also Angel in arlington.com where you can, , get a free chapter of the book. Is it a teaser? Yes, it absolutely is a teaser. But I mean, it is not like I. I yeah, it's good. It's, it's got some twists and turns that, any two crime enthusiast is gonna be like, what? know what it's gonna be

I love it.

So anyway, yeah, I still, I look back at that and I'm like. Is this really my life? Is this really happening? I'll never forget how it was when my co-author was interviewing my dad's killer and I'm just like, her husband's gonna hate me. What's going on? Yeah. Little bit of an instability there, but she's a life. She's doing great.

. That's crazy. Yeah. I'm surprised he, , sat down for it. But I mean, I guess what you gonna do, it's been so long

. But so we did get his side of the story. It is in the book.

And even after that, I did not feel completely resolved, but,

, You were talking about like the spirituality?

Spiritual aspects and stuff like that. Oh yeah.

Yeah.

is the spiritual aspect. So thing that I'd love to share is like, okay, so talking to my mom, back to that conversation when I was talking to my mom and , I told her about this dream that I had when I was four years old.

So my mom is like. Amazing. She bakes bread. She's a seamstress. She just, I, I swear she's a gardener. All these things that I am not. , But like, made a bunch of clothes for me when I was little. And , there was this purple and green dress that I loved and I remembered she was giving my clothes away left and right as she had boy after boy, after boy.

And I'm like, those are mine. And she's like, you don't fit in them anymore. So when I'm 11, I'm sitting there talking to her and I had this dream where my mom and dad and my brother and I were walking home from church. And, , it was the church that my grandparents went to after my dad died. And we lived with my grandparents at the time and. but of course we were a little bit older and we were walking home from church and I was wearing that purple and green dress, and they were singing this hymn. It was just a bloodline to the hymn. That was it. I think I was about five when I had the dream or whatever, and maybe a little bit older. , So I told my mom about the dream and she, her eyes got wide and she's like, well, you know the significance to the hymn, don't you? And I'm like. No old people sing it. I don't know. And she's like, it was your dad's favorite hymn in the world, and it was sung at a funeral. And so then she proceeds to get this box down from closet.

And I knew I'd seen the box before. , It had like my dad's dog tags and it had, , my christening dress and it had the last birthday present. So it's this little, I'll show you, , this little red, white, and blue dress. It was the last birthday present he gave me. This is actually a picture taken on the twin sister ship of my dad's ship that I did a photo shoot on. So I went from fat kid to getting scouted to model, but I still thought I was ugly anyway, so, , sorry. God, I love self-confidence. , beat ourselves up right

Shit.

Yes. Exactly. Exactly. But yeah. , So there's that dress and then the purple and green dress, which she did not know why she kept. Then anytime I'd hear that song at church or whatever, I'm like, I. I'd feel something, but I aloud myself, I'm like, okay, you know, this is kind of cool. Maybe, maybe my dad's connecting with me a little bit. And then, , I went to Washington DC when I was 17 years old. , One of my best friends lived out there. So we'd go see my dad's grave until my mom got remarried.

'cause you know, he ended up being a stay-at-home mom. Lots of kids. No plane tickets for DC to go see a grave, you know? And so I went back when I was 17 and my uncle, my dad's brother lived out there. and I was so nervous to see his grave, 'cause I'm like, I'm gonna sit here stone faced my uncle's, like, , having his heart ripped out again. When I saw his name in stone, that's where I lost it. I lost it. I didn't go crazy, but that's where I felt that beautiful grief. well fast forward to a week or so later, I was still hanging out with my friend. I was back there for a few weeks and it was Father's Day , so we're making cookies for her dad.

I didn't even think anything. And we go to church and what is the, I think it was, I can't remember which time it was, but it was one of the hymns we sang. It was his, my dad's funeral hymn. I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so dumb. I'm like, can we please go to Arlington? And because my grandpa's buried there too. So, , I was able to go visit my dad's grave.

And so that hymn has popped up. I also had some other experiences on that trip where it's like, I'd have these thoughts and I felt this connection to my dad, like, but I didn't wanna believe it. I'm like, no, that's not real. It's totally not real. But really long story short, I. It didn't quiet down. Like I'd have these thoughts out of the blue. You know, it's for those who are religious or whatever, connectable in the universe or believe the Holy Spirit talks to them, or they have these warm feelings or whatever. It was different. I. It wasn't like anything I had experienced before, you know, on a spiritual level. It was more like a very clear thought. And I'd tell my mom and she's like, your dad would've said the exact same thing. in this chapter on my website, it talks about like, just got to the point where I'm like, daddy, what do you want? I stopped fighting it and anytime I'd had these thoughts, it. It did lead me to something that I needed to do, so do I believe that I had his help along the way?

Absolutely. Do I believe he's still there? Yeah. Not as much as it used to be, it was, man, I can't get through this podcast without crying.

It's okay.

I mean.

You felt connected and that was something you had longed for ever since you were a child, so.

Yeah,

Everybody wants to be loved and connect with their parents.

and it's

You were able to do that from the soul.

yeah, and the cool thing is, is like. Like I said, the thoughts that I had, nobody could, nobody could know these things. , Well, yeah, in that chapter, again, it goes into like, whoa, nobody knew about who Whitehorse was because the chapters about a guy named Whitehorse. , But it's just cool because I don't just, it's kind of hard to explain, but I feel like I know what he is.

Like, you know, it's, it's hard because. I don't have those memories. I don't have him to build our relationship. But at the same time, like I still feel like I know him so deeply. Whether it be just like our souls are connected or the DNA, I mean, there could be a lot of different explanations, but that's one thing is like as much as grieving sucks. , There is that beauty in connection, which whether like you feel they're in your heart, that you think that they're standing there talking or you know, right there with you. One thing that I've heard that I love is, , the times that you hurt the most are when they're standing right there. And I love it. . I wanna say no, but I firmly believe that I would not have solved my dad's murder without his help. I feel like he was involved. He, he had obviously personal investment in it. There were people that he cared about who, , since we got the answers, healed. And I'm not saying their life was in shambles before, but there was still, you know, just like with me, there was that heavy. There was that question mark. There was that. Anxiety that once we knew and once we had our answers, there was so much peace. And I'm still very, very close to my dad's friends and the people that I was able to get to know and

On top of that, people that I'm getting to know through TAPS and also people who are writing their books or people I've connected with over the years in my advocacy, and I'm not patting myself on the back or anything like that, but like I've had people say, because you had the courage to share your story.

I can too. you had the courage to do that. I'm gonna give this a thought. And I believe that God, the universe, our loved ones, they want the best for us, and they want us to be happy. So,

I believe that too, and sometimes our pain turns into purpose, so.

A lot of times I agree

Mm-hmm.

you know that personally.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

. I'm just so happy how far you've come and how close you feel like it just sucks. It took so long, but at least you have it and you're at peace, and that's what's so important. I.

it's very attainable and I think the biggest thing is just. Taking that validation and that permission and you know, if you think they're talking to you, believe it, they probably are. Don't go now. Check yourself before, you know, don't know that there are, don't go off the deep end. If you're going to go track down a killer, make sure that you've got resources and that you're not. Knocking on his door by yourself or whatever, you know? I don't know. You get what I'm saying? It's just like,

Right.

is because, spirituality can turn into a slippery slope, so you gotta check yourself. So,

Right. And spirits good. Spirits are never gonna tell you to do bad things.

exactly.

So

Exactly. Yeah, we're on the same page. , It was an incredible experience. I mean, it was the hardest experience I've ever done, but it , it is cool because I don't feel 'em around as much anymore, but every now and then I'll get this little nudge or the, what are you thinking or what are you doing?

Like, you know, it's just kind of what a dad would say every now and then. But, but while I was doing my research and until I got that done, he was. He was on it. So , it was cool. Well, and another thing that's really cool I wanna share is, it's not just me. So my brother started having some, , we actually have my dad's funeral recorded, I'm sure my brother won't care that I share this, but, , he didn't connect. He's like, this is Alicia's thing. Alicia's the one who can miss Daddy. That's great. I've got my kids, I've got my life, whatever. And then he reached out to me once. He's like, uh, what's it like when dad talks to you? And I started laughing. I'm like, I don't have to tell you, do I? And he is like. Well, he had this experience where he was, , riding home from work.

, He lives in a big city and , he was riding home from work and he had his iPad. So that's how long ago it was. And of a sudden it just started spinning and then it stopped one of the talks from my dad's funeral. Then he listened to it. It's like, okay, that was different. Same thing. Second or third time it started spinning and kept going back. And then, , he started to, I mean, it was a rough time in his life and he was all like, okay, Alicia, uh, like if you think he is gonna shut up, he is not. So, you know, just embrace it. But it was pretty. Seriously. And it's, he's had that connection ever since. then my cousin is 23 years old. This was just barely, and she went to visit his grave. So I've had people who, like, he's buried in this remote section one in Arlington, so nobody goes up there 'cause it's old, it's like the old monuments and stuff like that. And, , he texted me, she was like, uh, I felt your dad there.

I. Like, you know, it was just really cool 'cause I've had people, different people be like, you know what? I felt he was there and I feel like he loves your family, or just different things like that. And so, I don't know. I just, I think it's cool to, whether people believe or not, it's nice , for me. To believe that they're with us, and yes, they're busy and they've got things going on, but we still have that support on the other side, which to me is lot of empowerment and brings a lot of peace, so,

I agree. I like to believe that, you know, they don't really. Die, so to say, you know, just your vessel dies, but the soul does not. They're, they're living another life now, as Lord knows, is what

Yeah, exactly. And I, I, I'm not in any hurry to see him, you know it, but

I.

it's cool to think about reuniting at some point, you know, and just, I don't know, it's something I think is beautiful. It takes, it adds off the grief, not in a way of, wishful thinking, oh, sure, cute, you know, whatever. But it's more like. This is real, like death sucks. Grief absolutely sucks. I hate it, it does take that edge off a little bit,

Yes, I am the worst at saying goodbye to people I can't. It's. It's not pretty.

See you later. Talk to you soon,

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Was there anything else you wanted to add?

, I think we pretty much covered it. I mean, I always give my advice, like make sure I already gave my advice for parents is like, make sure that the kid has access to a picture and that they know that they can talk about 'em. . If they want to go to unlikely courage.com, that's the website.

I'm still building up a little bit. I'm on Instagram. I love to connect with people. , I do speaking, you know, things like that. I mean, you can find that information on my website, but like the biggest thing is I just want your listeners to have validation and if they have any questions, I mean, I'm here, this sounds easy, but just know that they're not alone and that. Life really is more beautiful when you face the things that you're most afraid of, like, you know, the grief and things like that. So,

Yes. You have to have to have to,

Mm-hmm.

Get comfortable with being uncomfortable, because that's when all the magic happens.

Yeah. I love it. I love that statement. That's beautiful.

Yeah. And anyone listening, if you know somebody who needs to listen to this episode or maybe has questions about someone that on their side, you know, reach out, maybe she can help you work with you.

Yeah, I'm not a therapist. I'm not a coach, but I've got resources and I definitely want to give that validation. So unlikely courage.com or angel in arlington.com can find me, so.

All right. Perfect. Well, I wanna thank you so much for being here, Alicia. This was great.

Well, thank you Tiffanie.

Good stuff.

still fun talking to you. I appreciate you so much.

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