Unmasking a Conman: Heather Rovet's Survival Story

⚠️ Trigger Warning: Emotional abuse, manipulation, fraud

Heather Rovet thought she had found love. Instead… she found a conman.

He was charming. Attentive. Everything she thought she wanted. But behind the scenes, he was lying, stealing, and living a completely different life.

This episode shows how easy it is to get pulled in—and why it’s not your fault.

If you’ve ever ignored your gut… or questioned your reality… this story will hit home.

✔️ The real signs of love bombing
 ✔️ How manipulation hides in plain sight
 ✔️ Why smart, strong women still get targeted
 ✔️ How to spot red flags earlier
 ✔️ How to rebuild trust in yourself

You deserve real love. Not lies.

How to connect:
https://www.heatherrovet.com/

Transcript

Meet Heather Rovet

Handyman Turned Boyfriend

Charm and Grooming Tactics

Red Flags and Gaslighting

Discarding and Double Life

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Did you know many women find out the truth about their partner only after they've already moved in? Or worse, what if the person sleeping next to you had a secret criminal past and you had no idea? I know how manipulation hides in plain sight, and today's guest lived it. She trusted him, loved him, built a life with him. By the end of this episode, you'll know the red flag she missed, how she uncovered the truth, and how to protect yourself from becoming the next target. Heather Rovett, I really want to thank you to the show. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. I love doing podcast interviews. I love meeting new people. Absolutely. Me too. It's like one of my favorite things about the whole job. So if anyone out there listening, if her name does sound familiar, she is in it's a documentary called Roncom. Who the fuck is Jason Porter? And it's on Amazon Prime. First of all, what I have to tell you is you're a little badass. Thank you. And I love that. Somewhere along the journey, it there I definitely became a little obsessed. Not always the down the healthiest path. But yeah, it when the criminal justice system here in Canada failed me for what we did to me, I just wanted to expose him. And then it it's it was almost like an onion. Like every layer just turned out to be like more victims, more crimes. And he, yeah, he deserves what he got in the end, as far as I'm concerned. But I do think he could have cried more time. Oh, yeah, I was gonna get to that later. That was ridiculous. So I had the pleasure of actually watching the documentary, and so you pretty much you hired a handyman and ended up with a boyfriend. I I had renovated my condo in Toronto, and the company that I had used to do all the kitchen catemetry and the bathroom vanities, he actually worked for their company. So they sent him over a couple months after I'd moved back in back into the condo, and some things needed tweaking or fixing. He was their new service guy, so to speak. And how he ever got hired with his criminal past, which I did not know about at that time, is beyond me. So literally one day I on a Monday morning in July, I opened my front door and there he was. And he was very cute and charming and not normally what I would have gone for in a guy. And it didn't happen all on that first day that we met. But I don't know, it just when we first met, something it was like a spark went off in me. Like I definitely felt like a pull towards this person from the very get-go. But I have to say, and I actually loathe the saying hindsight 2020 because what I know now, had I known then, I never would have gotten involved with him. But there definitely was on my part an attraction and a magnetism. But I think what he was doing was grooming me and setting me up to be a long-term con, a long-term victim of his. You seem to be like from at least what they showed on the documentary, his longest relationship, so to speak. He lived with you guys were like on and off for what, three years? We were yes, just over three years. It was once it got going, it was on the whole time. The only time was at the very end, like the very, very the last month when we hadn't officially before I knew the truth. It was only the last month where we weren't, we hadn't broken up and I I didn't know the truth. And we were in this in-between, you know, he was claiming he needed some space and he wasn't coming home. But meanwhile, I'm still living in the home that we moved into together and trying to understand what's going on. But yeah, no, we were together together. Like we were when put it this way, when the world locked down for COVID, I thought it was the best thing ever. I was like, oh, this is awesome. We're gonna be locked in this house. Like that point, we're living in the condo. I was like, we're gonna be in this condo together all the time. This is great. Like, I actually relished the idea of spending even more time with him. So we were very, very much on. I do think, yes, I probably am one of his longer relationships. Before me, he was in a long relationship, about probably almost the same amount of time. I feel like he has about a three, three and a half year mark with people, and then probably the lives just start closing in. But he was with a woman before me who he had the child with, the child that I never met. And prior to that, he had been married, you know, in I don't know, maybe around 2008, 2009, and that probably was his longest relationship from start to finish because he did have to go through a formal divorce. But what I think Jace realized in 2010, all over the Canadian, all over the Greater Toronto area news, there were headlines for online Romeo wanted, and then you know, online Romeo arrested because he was probably one of the original romance fraudsters. He had been meeting women online and not only stealing from them, but I think what he had been doing when he'd be on a date, some a woman would go to the bathroom and he would steal a piece of her ID. And then I believe he opened up credit cards in their names. So he was defrauding them on that level, too. For whatever reason, back in 2010, a smart police detective believed the woman who came forward, and he guess a couple other people maybe came forward, and he had been arrested, and he ended up pleading guilty instead of going to trial. And I believe he got sentenced to three years in prison. So I think when Jason Porter got out of prison in 2014, he probably here in Canada, you never serve your full sentence. He probably did two-thirds of his sentence, got out on parole. And I think he was in the prison system. He probably had a lot of time to think, and he came out with a whole new persona. So we went from Jason Porter to Jace Parati, and he got back on the apps right away, and he met another woman whom he improved. And then I think what he probably realized was this is great. I have a woman who adores me. I have a home, a kid, like everything I could want, I've got. So it's very easy for him to hide behind this persona of being this great guy and having the great life. Meanwhile, behind her back, he was up to no good the entire time. She finally catches on, kicks him out. And within months, I meet him organically, not on a website, not on a dating app, but organically. And once again, he's reinvented himself. So he's gone from Jason Porter to Jace Peratti. But when I met him, he told me his name was Jace Paretti. Totally different spelling. And I guess he's just gotten so good at coming up with his backstory and lying about it and lying about it. By the time I met him, I it was so everything that came out of his mouth was believable. And what can I say? He is a con man, and part of his con is being so charming, and it's all part of that psychopath narcissist, narcissistic characteristics where partly what they do is they mirror what you need. So in me, he probably saw a woman who felt she was confident and independent, but really wanted love. And he gave me that. But really, it turned out I was with a complete psychopath, which is so scary because they do they tell you what you want to hear, they love bomb you, they every time you do catch on, they gaslight you. So they're it just oh, it pissed me off. So I think to be honest, because I'll go down rabbit holes, and I'm like, I think that's why he became a handyman. Because who hires handy men? Women, either women who don't have a man in the house or that aren't handy, that way he could get into people's homes because you were like one of the only ones he didn't meet on a dating site. All the other so I started thinking, oh my gosh, it's probably why he even got into that line of work to also be in homes to steal things, yes, and to meet women. Yep, 100%. I now think back to the very first day he came to my condo and I it was a nice renovation, it looked beautiful, and I was very proud of it. And now I think he must have just been casing the joint to use the lingo. I feel like he probably was looking around going, oh, this woman's got a nice condo, nice view, decent space. Like sh he totally sussed me out and played me. But I felt like he did that with a quite a bit of the women because the women like he knew what he was looking for, and so he had a type. All these women were well established. It's not like they were living paycheck to paycheck working on. Oh, I know. The in the documentary, there's a few of the other women, and they're all incredible, they're all successful. She's a titan in Canadian business. She is so very wealthy and so generous and so philanthropic. And Leslie, whom he stole the carteer watch from, again, like very comfortable life. Like, I think, yeah. And it's so sad to me because our entire relationship, I was very fraudulent or happy that we had met organically. And here I used to call it like the Hollywood Meet Cue. Like, literally, I open my door and there's the cute guy. I have never been one to want to online date, even though I know it's here to stay and it's it has its benefits. I do know people who have met great people on dating apps, but it also is a playground for predators like him to meet vulnerable people. And it's so sad to me, out of all of it, that the one thing that we all want in this, maybe not all of us, but the one thing that I really did want in this world, which was a loving, committed, happy relationship, involving my heart. He just weaponized that. He turned that into the most meanest thing anybody could ever do. And once I learned he was so calculated because some narcissists, like, once they're out in public or whatnot, they don't really some people can see through it a little easier. He wooed everybody, friends, family, like everybody loved him. First of all, don't be so hard on yourself because he was really good at what he did. He knew what he was doing and he played it as a role. Even when I would, in terms of red flags, so to speak, if I ever one of the things with Jace was he claimed that on his mother's side, although his mother had passed away, which is true, in a car accident when he was about 18, there was a family cottage. And in Ontario, in the summer, everyone wants to go to the cottage. You want to get out of the city. If you live in New York City, you want to go to the Hamptons. Like you just you want to get out. He apparently had this phenomenal family cottage. And for three, four summers, I was like, Can we go to the cottage? Can we go? Let's go to your family cottage. When can we go? And it would always he would turn it, that's the gaslighting. He would like turn it around and make me feel so bad for asking. And perhaps that might have been a red flag, but I feel like whenever I did try to talk to him about anything that was of concern, he had a story and a reason for everything and would just more often than not turn everything around, turn the conversation around. And it would leave me feeling really bad. And I was like, okay. And again, that's the gaslighting and the emotional abuse. But when I was in it, I didn't know what that was. It would only take months after months and years after all of this to really unpack it all and heal from it and recognize it. And yeah, he's really good at what he does. Some of my friends, and even my dad, who was in the documentary, they had suspicions, but nobody wanted to say anything to me because, like they all said, I was just so happy. And I have to wonder how much of that is just my natural personality that I am more a glass half full as opposed to half-empty person. But look, there's that amazing Netflix series that's gone all around the world. Love is blind. Like you there's something to be said. I think when you are in love with someone, you're seeing the best in them. You're not going in seeing all their flaws and faults. But when you do fall in love, you learn to you're already in love. So you're like, I accept you for who you are and who you're not. If you're a slob, I can live with that. I can all pick up your jeans that are on the floor and tidy up. But you're opt in. But I've always had to me, my heart isn't a light switch. I just can't turn it on and off, on and off. So once I fell in love with him, which happened fairly quickly because of the love bombing. I it was I even that month when he was taking his space, the very last month of the relationship, when we hadn't broken up and I didn't know the entire truth or anything, at length, I still believed that we were just in a growing pain and we were gonna get through this. And that was you don't really see it till you step out. You gotta get out of it, unfortunately. And that's the first step. Because no matter what you go to them with, they're gonna have an excuse. There's a story. That's when we start making the excuses because we want to believe them. You you loved, you know, like this is who you wanted to spend the rest of your life with, and everything else he said you thought was truth. Honestly, I thought by the end of the documentary I was gonna find out he didn't even have a kid. That's where I thought this was going. No, he very much has that son, and I feel I feel like if there's any collateral damage in the story, it is the little boy who I believe is 10, turning 11 very soon. I never did meet him. Early on in our relationship when we first started dating, he would often FaceTime me while he was on his visits with his son, but I never physically met him. And one of the gut-wrenching things I used to every Christmas and for his birthday, I would give Jace gifts to give to this kid who I never met. And when I went through round two of finding stuff out, all the stuff that was hidden under the bed that I bought and made the room for his son, in that bag of stuff were Christmas cards and birthday cards that I given his son that he obviously never got. And I would later learn, because I finally did talk to the woman, the boy's mom, and hearing learning her story was interesting because there's so many parallels, and I feel almost worse for her because she has a kid with him, so she's tied to him forever. But the big difference in our stories is this actually isn't in the documentary, but when I first started dating Jace, he was very open about the mother of his son, and he told me her name. And of course, I it's not like I didn't Google Jace Paretti. When I started dating Jace, I Googled Jace Pareti, and he had no real online presence. And I asked him about that, and he said mainly because of going through the family court stuff, he was trying to keep a low-key profile, and he really wasn't big on social media. Totally viable excuse. Couple of my closest friends, they do not have, they are not on any social media platform. They just don't do it. They just don't do it. So I was like, So when he told me who the mother of his son is, I looked her up on Facebook and sure enough, her and I had a mutual friend. So I asked that mutual friend, how do you know this person? He said, Oh my gosh, I went to junior school with her, but I haven't seen her in years. He messaged her on Facebook and he said, Hey, my best friend is dating your ex. You know, is he a good guy? And she wrote back to my friend and she said, I don't want to talk about that man. I'll let the family court decide. And my friend showed me the answer. That response from her completely played into the story that he had told me about her, that she didn't want the breakup and she was heartbroken and devastated, and she was taking it out on him and locking him out of the house and freezing him out of bank accounts and all this stuff. So hearing, like seeing that response, I was like, oh, wow, of course she is. But the truth was that really isn't how it was. Like, that's not the truth. The truth was that she actually did figure out through the help of her family lawyer that he was Jason Porter, and she didn't feel the need to warn me on that level. But in her defense, because I don't think she knew that Jay she'd found so much stuff throughout their house, and she'd had women contact her, she knew he was up to no good, and she knew about his previous arrests and whatnot. Yeah, for whatever reason, she didn't feel the need to share that with other women. But I do feel bad for her that she is tied to this criminal and that she has a son with him. And I would be terrified having his offspring because if psychopathy or narcissistic personality disorder is at all hereditary, that little boy might have tendencies. I'm sure you never know. For whatever reasons, knowing the hell I went through extricating myself from the house in Aurora and dealing with everything I had to deal with, I'm sure she was in her own living hell and having to look after a little kid who was probably only three at the time would have been really painful. So I do give her grace on that. Had she had her response to my friend been, hey, tell your friend to call me, or tell your friend to run. Or run. I would have been like, What? I would like to think that early on in the relationship, I wouldn't have stayed. Like in the documentary when in part two, when Desiree comes on, the pretty blonde, and she starts talking about her best now ex-best friend Jen and Henry, the director. So how after how many months did he move in with her? And she was like, months, try two weeks. So in the August, when he hadn't been coming home, that's where he was. He had moved in with her. And anytime he came by the home, I when he would come back home to get more clothes or do something, I'd be like, Are you are you seeing anyone? What is going on? I don't understand. We have this huge house, like we can sleep in a bedroom upstairs. Like, why I don't understand the space anymore. I got in at the beginning, like the first couple of weeks, but it's now been a month. What's going on? And one of his responses, this is classic. He, when he was back in the house, he and I was trying to get answers out of him, but he looked at me and he was so mean. And this is in the abuse cycle when they talk about discarding. I didn't know it then, but now it's just it gives me chills to remember this. But he looked at me and he was like, Leather, I wouldn't be this upset with you if I'd walked in and caught you fucking someone in our bed. And I was so taken aback by that, and I was so hurt by that. To then like maybe six weeks later, learning the truth that in fact the week that after our little fight when I gave him space and came down to the city from Aurora, he'd slept with her in our bed. Oh my god. Look at on the date that he picked you up with the motorcycle. That's the motorcycle Leslie bottom. Yeah. Yeah, right? Exactly. He used his trinkets to get other women. Like that literally became his full-time job. Yeah. Oh, the night when I like the afternoon that I finally cracked the password and got into the shared big desktop computer and was going through all his emails, and I was taking screenshot after screenshot. That night when my girlfriend Kristen came over, who's in the documentary, I just I remember her sitting on the couch in the office and she was going through all the screenshots and she was like almost laughing to because she was just like, This is his. Job. This is what he does. He doesn't work at Oracle. He's not a contractor building a company, Heather. He this is his job. And she says it so brilliantly in the documentary, too, that for all the other women out there, because I had some women reach out to not some, I had some reach out to me before the documentary when the article first came out that led to the making of the documentary. And they said, Yeah, I dated him briefly. I guess I wasn't wealthy enough for him. He didn't take anything from me. But the truth is, all he has to do is go in once, and you know, you have some making out time or sex and somebody's in the bathroom, and then he goes and he like grabs a ring and he takes off with it. Like you're not going to notice right away one or two things missing. It's until you go to put on that thing. I had a woman call me in October of last fall, October 2025, who finally saw the documentary and she was like, I dated him before, way before you. But she's, did you ever see a ring? And she described this beautiful ring that he must have, she's I'm pretty sure it was him who stole it from me. And that's how he gets away with it. Because all you have to do is steal one or two things without any video proof or like sales receipts. How can you prove he took it? And I unlike the Tinder Swindler, for instance, who I've actually become friends with Cecilia, she's so lovely. But the Tinder Swindler, who was almost more like a Ponzi scheme with a few people like boring large having them take out large sums of money. Jace is petty. He steals to survive. It was like with my mom's jewelry that he eventually, it's not like he went in and stole it all at once. He figured out where she kept it, and he would steal it piece by piece to the point where she when she finally went through the safe and realized like all these boxes and ring bags, they're all empty. It was disgusting. Like it was I was wondering, like when you called the cops and the cops came and you're like, I want them out, and they're like, pretty much there's nothing we can do. Why didn't you show them the pawn receipts? Wouldn't that have been enough right then to send them to jail? So when the cops came to my house in Aurora and I told them, first of all, I'm like, he hasn't been here, he hasn't slept here in a month. Like, I'm going to change the locks. And they're like, We don't suggest you do that because he's your co-tenant. I'm like, is he though? Because his name's not even his name. So that makes this I'm a real estate broker. As far as I'm concerned, this lease would be null and void. And then I said to them, What about my mom's stuff? If you're like, I asked them for a restraining order, because in case he did come back and they laughed at me. And I was like, You're not concerned that this man who went to federal prison, who was sentenced to three years and has a history of doing this, you I can show you he's still up to it, up to no good. You're not concerned. They're like, no, unless one of those women comes forward, what can we do? And I said, What about my mom's stuff? And they said, It's up to her to report that to her local police. So that's what happened. Wow.

unknown 25:16

Yeah.

Still Hunting on Apps

Creepy Double Life

Red Flags And Gut

Victims Rights And Money

Name Changes And Probation

Scams Everywhere Closing

SPEAKER_00 25:16

I feel like all of his receipts belong to somebody, and none of them belonged to him. All the items. Oh my god. I know that there's picture of him like holding one of my mom's rings, like holding the ring box with my mom's ring, and it's the backsplash in our kitchen. You know, he could never deny it's not him who stole any of this, but yeah, it's so shitty. So he spoiler alert for those who haven't watched the documentary, he is in jail, but he's only in jail for stealing my mom's jewelry. And the sad thing about that is he stole like this much. And we have this much evidence. Because the night the police came to the house in Aurora, and I had that terrifying 911 call that you hear in the documentary, they were actually going to arrest me that night because he flipped the whole narrative around and said, The reason I haven't been staying here is because about a month ago Heather assaulted me and apparently had some proof. And I was just like, Are you kidding me? So the police felt that because he decided not to press charges, they gave him all these liberties. So they left. The police left and left us in the house together that night. And then he went in and took a phone cord and locked, wrapped it around the door handle so I couldn't get in. And he proceeded to erase the computer. And I hadn't gotten all the screen, I got a full bunch of screenshots off, like hundreds, but there were hundreds more. So there was more evidence for my mom's stuff that we could have probably used to have more charges laid. But sadly, at the end of the day, it was like I don't know, like one count or two counts of theft over 5,000 and one count of like possession of crime. Like the way it's worded is very technical, but yeah. And then after the lengthy three plus year battle through the Canadian criminal justice system, after he finally pled guilty to avoid going to trial, the crown attorney, which is like the DA in the states, asked for one year. They were asking for one year, and his lawyer was asking for two years with a house arrest with an ankle monitor. And I was like, are you like I'm like, this is a man with a known past that we know has done more. We know this whole time he's still been up to no good. So thank God the judge was really remarkable, and that didn't sit well with her. So she did give him two years less one day, which so again in Canada, I don't know how it works in the States, but in Canada, two years less one day, you go to provincial jail. Anything over two years, you go to federal prison. I've been told the jails are in a way worse than the prisons. The conditions aren't as great, like they're overcrowded. I think when if you're in prison for a longer, like the time you get it becomes your home. And it's not that it's any you're still locked up, but who knows? They probably have library time and more gym time or outdoor time. I pray that while he's in there, he does not have access to any computers because that's like a weapon of his choice. Oh, for sure. When I saw that, two years minus a day and three years probation, I was like, you've got to be fucking kidding me. I'm like, her Tiffany jewelry is worth more than that shit. I know. I know. And he has to pay my mom back restitution. And if he once he gets out, I think he within two months of being out, he has to start paying her. I think it's$1,300 or$1,400 a month until it gets up to, I think, about$38,000. And if he apparently if he misses a payment, it can trigger him going back to jail. So let's see what happens. He still has two outstanding cases against him. So at the end of March, the trial for Leslie's Cartier is happening. Oh, good. Yeah, so she's a witness for that. So I told her I'd go and support her. Now who knows? Maybe he'll end up pleading guilty. And then in the documentary, as you recall, there was the day. So we hadn't been greenlit yet for the documentary. We were in paid development with Amazon. And the trial, this would have been the winter of 2024, January 24, January 2024. The trial was set to start. So we hadn't been greenlit, but they wanted to capture him coming to court the first day and my reaction. And that's that brilliant shot where he like puts the jacket over his head and does the perp walk right in front of the camera. And sorry. He does the perp walk right in front of the camera. And then, as luck would have it, that first day of court, his lawyer was sick. So all the jurors, everybody got sent home. And because Jason seen me with the camera, that gave him time to plot and scheme. And he showed up at court two days later claiming to have found these flyers everywhere, which led to the case being adjourned indefinitely. His lawyer ended up recusing himself, and a whole new investigation started, which eventually led to the new charges of obstruction of justice, jury tampering, and something else, which I think might be like public causing mischief in a public place, meaning like a court of law. And the OPP detective told me the those charges compared to theft and crime are very serious. So that trial is supposed to be starting in September of this year. So we'll see what happens. Hopefully he gets more time. No, I am very happy that he still has he has more dates to look at that. Yeah. So he'll either end up like pleading guilty, hopefully trying in his mind, maybe trying to get a lesser sentence of sorts. But I also know that the crown attorney's office, at least for the new charges and for my mom's stuff, they're they've seen it all with him. They're prepared for him to probably cause more mischief or more delays. But the bigger question is how the hell is this guy paying for a lawyer if he's in jail and isn't working? But I have my theories on that too. Oh, I have some. That pen pal program, he found himself a little sugar mama. Yes. And I think that sugar mama's desire's friend. She's still with him. No, God. Yeah. I was, I didn't know if you knew, ended up. I shouldn't say that so boldly. Last I heard, which was late last year, she was very much still with him and visiting him and distraught that he was in jail and refused to watch the documentary, and she thinks that Desiree and I are mean girls. She would call, she would describe me probably as jealous, scorned. And out of all the victims, out of all the women, like she's the only one who was ever warned. She had the liberties of I spoke with her for three hours when she learned the truth of who he was. And she went back to him. She's probably the longest relationship he's had now. Because that would be well over three years at this point. That's a good just thing from the listeners. When you have a group of people who all have the same story, they don't know each other. So it's not like everyone sat in a round circle and said, Okay, you say this, I say this, but on their own accord, tell you who this person really is. You need to listen because he's not gonna tell you who he really is, because he needs you. Yeah. And the fact that the story, I know the documentary, the production company reached out to both Jace and Jen to ask if they would like to tell their side of the story for the documentary, and they ignored every possible contact. Surely there's gotta be maybe a small part of her brain that is going. If if if your boyfriend's story is being turned into a documentary on Amazon Prime Video, maybe there's some truth to it. I don't know. I would think so. But and if more and more charges keep coming, you've got to see the writing on the wall. Clearly, this guy is not innocent. Yeah, totally. And I know firsthand he never stopped being on the dating apps the entire time he was with her, and not just heterosexual apps. One of my gay friends found him on a gay hookup app called what's it called? Grinder. Sound nasty. Grindr. And my other good gay friend, my hairstylist, whenever I would go, he's on Grindr, so I'd be like, launch him. And I knew if his user, I would we'd look him up, and he would be often online active. I was like, Can he see me? Can he see? I was so free. I was so anxious. Like, can you see us? But he couldn't. It's pretty nasty. Two days after he pled guilty, so in January of 2025, do you have in Florida those in Facebook on Facebook? There's those dating groups called Are We Dating the Same Guy? Yes, we do. So there are a stab role here in the GTA. Are we dating the same guy? Toronto, are we dating the same guy? York, Mrs. On. And two days after he pled guilty, I got a Facebook notification that I was tagged in a post, and I'd go and see, and some woman has posted his picture and said, What's the deal on this guy? And so somebody saw it and they tagged me, and I was like, I need to hear the story. And she was like, Oh my god, I was supposed to go out with him tonight. Like, thank you. Same with Tiffany. So Tiffany, who's incredible, like her. I don't know if the documentary conveys this, the timing of everything, but Tiffy, he met Tiffany and me at the same time. So he was dating us like for those first few weeks at the very same time. And then for whatever reason, maybe it's because she got her periods. I don't know, but I got the lucky prize. And as she says in the documentary, he always kept in touch with her, whether it was like through every so often, like every six months, he would just send her a WhatsApp saying, Hey, what's up? And it's now the spring of 2024, and she's on Facebook, and it's people you might know, and it's Jim's Paretti, not Paretti, James Paretti, and she's like, I know him. So she friends him, and that starts their banter all over again. And he's single, apparently, and she's single, but he wasn't single, living with Jen. And but Tiffany's smart, and she decided to Google him this time because she just said something wasn't feeling right. And that's when she found the Toronto life story, which led to her looking me up, which she then DMs me, and right away we got on the phone, and she was like, Oh my god, I'm supposed to be going out with him like tomorrow night. What you're like, this is crazy. So yeah, he's he never ever stopped. Right. He would keep you in the back pocket just in case he needed you again. He did that with a couple of the girls. Uh yeah. And it makes sense to me because oh my my stuff's getting low. Like, all right, who else can we bait up? Let's see if they'll still talk to me. Just to think about what was going on in that man's head. He was on like what nine different dating apps? Yeah, probably. All of them, all of them. Tinder costing. I know. So he wasn't really a drinker. Like we wouldn't if we ever went out to dinner, which was very rare, especially with COVID, but or even at home, like he never really would let his guard down and let loose and party. Like, and I think the reason is he probably had so many stories in his mind. He had to keep straight. Who what did I tell this person? And there was probably like the big themes, the fact, like the big lie that he graduated second in his class from the University of Waterloo, which is the Canadian equivalent of MIT. We had his backstory is that he even has a LinkedIn profile, which is still up. So he's got a LinkedIn profile with all this fake work history, but it's good enough for when you don't know it's fake, you go and you look at it, you're like, that's pretty impressive. This guy's worked in China and California. And he was in China, he was all over the world. He really wouldn't drink because what's that saying? Loose lip, loose lips sink ships. So I think he very much had to keep all his facts straight. But he had really, yeah, he had some weird habits, like I touched on it in the documentary a bit, just like his sleeping habits. He would, you know, he would nap every afternoon because it would make sense. He would stay up so late because he was on the apps chatting up women all night long. There's I don't think it made it into the documentary, but when I started that one day that I was able to actually go into the one dating app, one of the dating apps, and read a lot of his correspondence, went back months. And I get to Valentine's Day of 2020. And he's messaging several women just saying how he loved nothing more than to have somebody to kiss and a Valentine. Meanwhile, I'm sound asleep with like my silk eye mask and Batsy beside me. And he comes and he puts a rose beside my head and my Valentine's Day card and takes a picture of me sleeping. Like it's so creepy some of the stuff he did. Meanwhile, while he's doing that, he's also simultaneously messaging all these women just saying, Oh, I'd love nothing more than to he's he very much is a sick, twisted individual. Absolutely. Somehow there's something in him feeding, and I don't know if it's like an ego thing. Maybe he actually has low self-esteem and he needs all this to boost him up, or it's just he doesn't want to work and he wants to take advantage of women, or he wants to be a ladies' man, whatever the hell it may be. He needs fucking therapy. Yes and no, he's too smart for therapy. We went so that month of August when he was living with Jen, unbeknownst to me, and making her life the best month of her life with that an exciting month of bursts. Him and I did he and I did go to two two-hour long couple therapy sessions with a really good site, like a therapist who did his PhD dissertation in why opposites tracked. And he, after the first session, was like, I know you guys are a lovely couple, I can mix you. Like he even call on the therapist. So the third appointment, Jace didn't show up and lied about that. And when then it would have been within 24 hours of that that I learned the truth. And I called the therapist the following week and told him everything. And I was like, Did you pick up on any of this? And he was shocked. He was like, No. And in April of 2025, when the judge did sentence him, she gave a long summation of like her reasoning. And she even said, while she ordered a psychiatric evaluation, she did say to him that she's not gonna waste precious court and what do you call it, like correctional services on him for getting therapy because she's you're too smart for it. Like she she knew he would just lie to the therapist. He doesn't that's the problem with psychopathy, sociopaths, narcissists. Like it's not a pill that you can give them to get better, it's a disorder. Their brains are so wired fucked uply that I don't know if they if you can get better. Like you would need somebody to do a lot of self-reflection, a lot of hard change, a lot of therapy. And we all know change making changes in life isn't always easy. Like, I love to every Sunday night I go to sleep where I'm like, hey, Monday morning, I'm gonna wake up half an hour earlier so I can journal and meditate this week before I get going with the day. That's a healthy change. And nine out of ten Mondays, I'm just like, snews, it's it's hard. My point is it's hard enough to implement positive healthy changes. How can we expect somebody who's so mendacious, somebody who's so diabolical to actually change? It's impossible. You're so crude, and they don't want to. There's they see there's nothing wrong with them. So why would they want to change? Yeah. And I have to say, there were times it took a lot of healing, a lot of therapy, a lot of there. I asked myself the hard questions, like, what did I why didn't I see this? Like, why me? What did I ignore? Did I want to be in love so badly that I turned a blind eye to the little tiny hits of intuition that we're trying to get through? And that can create a huge shame spiral. And But you have to go through it to get out to the other side. So it's you are blinded by love. You are. Like, I think we can all say that. I've been there. I should have seen signs when I didn't. And when I got out, I was like, holy fuck, what were you thinking? Yeah. And but you don't know until you're out of it. Because they do. Every time you second guess something, there's an answer for it. There's a reason for it. So in the documentary, your father said he felt like he let you down. And that made me a little sad. But when it comes down to it, do you think you would have listened? It puts funny as funny as that because we brief my mom and I just a couple weeks ago watched the entire footage of my dad's interview. And it was so surreal because I just I miss him so much. And I'm sorry for your loss. When I saw that in the second episode, I know. Oh man, it was brutal. And Baxi, my like my little dog Baxi, I had to put him to sleep in July. And then my dad died in October, and it was just like boom, like too huge. I can't compare my dog to my dad, but god, there were days where I was just like, God, like, how much more can you throw down on me? Jeez Louise, but my dad definitely had his inclinations. And as he would say, like, even if he had tried to talk to me, I might not have listened. And it made me very sad to hear that he felt he let me down, but he didn't let me down. He know I know in I know in his heart of hearts that he knows that he did a good job. And what makes me most sad is that he never got to see the documentary, see Justice Served, see me now, really turning this pain around and getting to go on platforms like this podcast and sharing my story in the hopes that it's helping other people. And I think it is. I get emails all the time and messages from people all around the world who are just like, thank you, you know, your bravery, thank you for sharing your story. I don't feel so alone because women don't and men don't always want to talk about this stuff because it is embarrassing and it can be shameful. And just last week I was interviewed for the local news because there was a rope a romance fraudster arrested here in Toronto and coinciding with Valentine's Day. And I said when we don't speak up, it's just like giving the monster more food, it's feeding them, it's like pouring gasoline on a fire and it's making their power even stronger. So I do think by being open about it, it definitely is empowering. It feels good. Get that in a way by not reporting it, you're saying it's okay. What you did to me was okay, and it's not okay. And I think your dad is still around, you know. Just because the body leaves, the soul does not. And I know for a fact he'd be very proud of you. So know that. If there are women out there right now questioning things, what would you tell them? What are maybe some signs to look for or inklings that we say trust your gut? And but did you you probably didn't even have the gut at that point? No, it depends on the level of duplicity you're dealing with. Because even like on your phone, you can hide apps, you can hide photos, like even if your boyfriend's being totally transparent. I knew Jace's passcode, but I didn't know that you could now I know, but I didn't know to look for hidden apps or hidden photos. I didn't know that this guy had multiple SIM cards and a burner phone. Like there's the basics, yes, if it's the beginning and you're they're whisking you off to, I don't know, like Paris for a weekend and you've only known them for a week, like maybe you want to slow down if they're whining and dinning you so lavishly. I don't think it has to come on so strong. I used to always think that love was about fireworks, but now I feel love is the fireplace. You want to go slow, go steady. That'll get you there. If you're online dating and somebody's asking you for money, no. I hope everyone knows that now because I've actually met women and spoken to people who have been that kind of romance fraud victim where they've never met the person in real life and they've given huge sums of money for either an investment they thought was going to be legit or because the person played them and lied to them about that. To answer your question, like I think the more some trips and stuff, but like something there's all the future, yeah, that happened with Italy. One thing that's not talked about in the documentary, I don't think it is. So we met in 2018 in early in by Christmas time of 2018. We started talking, or in November, we started talking about going on a holiday. And I had, I was like, oh my god, great. I had all these Amex travel points. So I was like, I have to use these, so let me see what we can use them for. So I booked us using all the Amex points and paying a bit of cash into a resort in the Dominican Republic. And Jace was getting his passport. He he had to renew his passport. And we were, I think we were leaving on a Saturday and Friday. I was downtown showing condos to a client, and he called and I let it go to the voicemail. And I called him on the way back home. And he said, Oh my god, Heather, like, yeah, my passport hasn't arrived. And I just got off the phone with them, and there was a problem with my friend who was my reference. They couldn't get in touch with him, so they couldn't verify me. And like, I don't have a passport, I can't go. And I was like, What? And of course, this is a non-refundable, non-transferable trip. So I'm like, what the f so I ended up going. I went to like five-star adults-only resort in Dominican Republic by myself over Valentine's Day. It was brutal. And the whole time I was down there, he kept lying more, just saying, I'm trying to get a passport, and I'm, you know, but the they shut down early because of weather. And he actually sent me a picture of him, allegedly him, at the passport office. And it wouldn't be until like, I don't know, years later, like even after I learned the truth, and probably like another year after that, I took that picture and ran it through Google Images and I did a reverse look up lookup. And wouldn't you know it? It's like a stock image photo of a passport office. So he because when I found all that stuff hidden under the bed, one of the things I found was the letter from the family responsibility office denying him a passport because he was so behind in child support, not just to the woman he had the one child with, but the two kids he had with his first wife that I didn't even know existed. So crazy. So, you know, yeah. So when he gave me the fake e plane tickets for my birthday later that year to go to Italy, I was over the moon because I didn't know they were fake. And then, of course, the trip got postponed. And it's almost like there were times I wondered to myself, like, is this guy on a chat room on the dark web? Because it just all happened so perfectly that the trip once again got postponed because of family court, and he went to court one day and came back and said they're taking a two-week adjournment and then they're going to go back. And in that two-week period, the whole world shut down for COVID. So I don't know. There were day like there were also times where in the very beginning when I was dealing with the police, and I'd have to, after he was arrested for my mom's stuff, the conditions on the arrest were that he couldn't go near me or my family or my parents' homes. But the they left the house that we shared out of that in Aurora. So he made it after Jen and him broke up for like a week and he was actually back in the house in Aurora, he made it very difficult and awful for me. And I would have to get escorted in by police anytime I wanted to go into the house. And there were times where I just I felt like the police were on his side. And I was like, is this guy an informant? What is going on? Like, how can they be giving the criminal more liberties and more? It's like they're not protecting me, they're protecting him. Unfortunately, for some reason, the perpetrators get more rights than the victims, and it's ridiculous. It's brutal. It's brutal. That was your age. We were renting the house, but at the end of the day, as far as I was, I was paying for everything. So that's another red flag. I don't know. Money isn't always equal in relationships, but he just it just seemed whenever I needed something from him financially, there there was never any money. And that mightbe should have been a bit more of a red flag, but he always tied it back to like family court. And the kid needed this, and he bought this for the kid. And I never wanted to interfere with that. I wanted him to get custody of his kid. I wanted him to be the dad that he claimed he was. Even in the judge's summation, she basically said to Jace in her ruling, she's like, You're a menace to society. Go to jail and come out being the man you so desperately seem to want to be for your kid, but stop using your kid as a pawn. I should do some Instagram content on that because I have the whole like 87-page summation, and it's pretty interesting what she wrote. Did he ever make a statement? Did he ever say I'm sorry or I'm sick or no? He never said he's sick. So when we got to read our victim impact statements in court, and his lawyer redacted chunks of mine because they claimed it wasn't part of the charges. And maybe I did go off on a few tangents, but this was the one time I'm allowed to use my voice in the court system. He did get up and he said something like, I'm really sorry to hear about Ernest dying. He was a good man. And it took everything for me to stand in my seat and not jump out and rip his eyeballs out. And yeah, between what he said and his girl Jen wrote him a support letter, which she claimed that she depended on him and he was a huge part of her life with her kids and this whole BMX community. And I was just like, that's all a lie. She's an accomplice, as far as I'm concerned. But it's just so sad that she's wasting what years she has on a man who does not care about her, he cares about what she can do for him. Yeah, that's what he cares about. Yeah. Now, all like many years later, like I am in, I started, I finally started dating like over a year ago. After it was probably about six weeks after my dad passed away, I actually met someone. And now that I'm in a healthy relationship, and he's great because he knew my right away, he knew my story. And I remember when the trailer came out, we'd already been together for five for a good six months, seven months at that point. I sent him the trailer, and I was like, if you never want to talk to me again, I totally understand. And he watched it and he called me, and I could tell he was crying, and he was just like, I'm so proud of you. Because I love you even more. And I'm like, oh my gosh. It's like the comment I said earlier: love isn't fireworks, it's a fireplace. And with Greg, it hasn't always been easy, especially at the beginning, like, oh my god, I would just I'd it'd be one step forward, ten steps back, and believe me, like I tried to sabotage it because I just didn't know love. I didn't trust it. I didn't trust myself. And it took a long time, and he was so patient. But because I knew he was a real man and a good man, we could have conversations that aren't always easy to have. And I would walk away from those conversations, not being confused, not feeling anxious, but feeling I was heard, I heard him. It's that idea, I guess, of more like really what a partnership is about. Like when you come together with somebody and you can have the harder conversations and you grow from them. You don't get upset and freak out, and you know, it's manipulate turn on because you did this. Right. It's none of that, and it's not reactionary, it's it's mature, simple. I yeah, in that regard, yeah, part of me feels bad for anyone who might still be pining for a criminal. Because so happy that you found a real love interest. That is great. You deserve it. Thank you, you really do. Thank you. I think you're great. When I was watching you on the documentary, I'm like, I hang out with this girl. Thank you. You got Moxie, I like it. Thank you. When I go next winter, I so I pretty much my mom, as long as she's still wintering in Florida, I'm gonna spend a good month down in Florida every winter with her because it's just such a special time. I love her so much, and yeah, it's good. Florida's cool. Yeah, come visit. I don't know. But I think I think a lot of people can probably see their story in me. Like I say all the time, I'm not unique. My story's not unique. I guess where it gets juicy is the fact that he had been arrested and then came out and just changed his name. But he never stopped doing it and he never will. And as long as you know the flying monkey. Yeah, yeah. He'll have the flying monkeys, whether it's Jen or even the mother of his child, because she'll probably facilitate visits. Like it's pretty sad. It's pretty sad. When I was watching it, one of the last girls, I think, called him Bob. So he got completely away from even the Jane names. Yeah. So I almost guarantee it when he does get out, he's gonna be like Adam, or he's gonna he's gonna change his name. I just hope they can find it because part of his probation is he can't be on any dating apps. Yep. And I hope, yeah, it's there's a lot more to it. I don't think he's allowed to legally change his name. It doesn't mean he can't use a different persona online, but he won't be able to legally change his name. So he's stuck actually as Jace Parati, which he got the last name Parati. His mother's maiden name was Parati. And I guess he thought by adding an I it made him sound Italian. And here I thought I was dating this Italian guy. I don't even think the guy's ever been to Italy. He has I don't think he has ever. He's been to Italy as many times as he's been to China. Right. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Oh, yeah, because this guy can't get a passport, so he can't travel. But yeah, I hope women can watch this the documentary and listen to these conversations. And if they suspect that they're being played, or something, that's the intuition. It's like some I guess if something feels off it might be, or it's something seems too good to be true, it might just be. And that's the difference that if you're with a legitimate person, you ought to be able to have that conversation and talk about your doubts and your fears. And if it's unfounded and they are legitimate, it'll get diffused and you'll just be like, okay. But if you leave a conversation feeling more confused than going in, that's something to look at. I definitely I just yesterday visited with a friend and she apologized. She said how they're part of the reason why we drifted was she's like, I didn't trust him. And she goes, and when you move from the city to Aurora, she was like, I was worried for you because you moved to a yes, it's only 45 minutes north of Toronto, but I'm a city girl, and here I am living semi-rural in this little town in a suburb where I know no one. Isolation. And I definitely I've journaled, I journaled the whole time I was with him, and I think back to a lot of that time, and it's hard to say what might have been a bit of COVID, but I definitely lost my sparkle. I lost some of my self-esteem. I definitely wasn't at my happiest times, even though while I was in it, I just was like, I guess this is just part and parcel for being in a relationship. It's not always going to be great, and the world's a mess, and it is what it is. But no, that's not my true nature. And he dug away at that for sure. They know exactly what to do to knock you down. They get into your head, they find out your insecurities. One other thing though, I definitely want to touch on is he wasn't a physical person, but he did hurt you, but tried to play it off as joking. And I think that's huge because you he would try to tickle you, and then he'd put his fingers in your ribs to where the part where you couldn't even breathe, he'd sit on you. And that is not okay because clearly when you're telling someone to stop doing something and they refuse to do it, they think it's hilarious, keep doing it, and they video record it. Red flag. Yeah, there's your red flag for sure, for sure. I guess I miss again. That's like the grooming and the conditioning, and I mistook that banter between us, that play as something like flirtatious, even though it did hurt. And he wanted it that way. That's why I think he laughed because oh, she's gonna think we're playing around. But I think a part of him really enjoyed causing pain. I know. We used to also play that game punch buggy, if you're driving like a Volkswagen beetle, and he did this with the little boy's mom because she told me this. And I was like, oh my god. We would play it, and sometimes it'd be like punch buggy, bread, no punch backs. He would go whoop, and I'd be like, Whoa, killer, like you've got big biceps. He also very much used anabolic steroids, like he would, I would he would walk around with the needle in his bicep because you would have to push it in ever so slowly, the juice. And I was like, This is so weird. But I do Botox, so who am I to like say you shouldn't put things in your body? But yeah, I think he definitely had some roid rage, and now knowing what some of the side effects are of steroid use, he definitely had some of that stuff going on too. But uh he's yeah, he's a bad man, and he's thank God off the streets for a short period of time. When he gets out, I hope he doesn't start doing this all over again, but he probably will because a tiger can't change their stripes. And the sad thing is, he's probably in jail meeting new scammers and bad guys, and I say it's like college for criminals. He's probably learning some new tricks of the trade. And while he is getting older and definitely losing his looks, there's always going to be somebody who's going to look at him and think he's the cat's meow. That's why he keeps going older if he's now 52, turning 52, to some 70-year-old woman. Hey, that's hot. Hopefully, his face gets plastered everywhere, and people know what to look look for. I just hope he gets more time. Like at least 10 years. I'll let you know. I'll let you know. I'll let you know at the end of March what happens, and then I can let you know in September. But yeah, like at least he's not using the system and has a he doesn't have a free, what do they call it? Like legal aid lawyers. Like he can't qualify for legal aid. So he even bragged to the court last year that he had a really he asked not to go away because he had a really good year and was on track to make even more money this year. And the judge was like, You're making money, great. You should be able to pay restitution. So I think he shot himself in the foot because in this economy, I don't know how anyone's I don't know too many people who are thriving, let alone con man handyman. Absolutely. He obviously wasn't a very good handyman because your bar was not straight. He also did throughout our relationship, he made some furniture, but he would, it's like he would make he would it'd be 90% finished, and there would be something wrong with it that it never was fully attached or this was missing. Like he he made a dresser for us in the bedroom, but he never put a top on it, like it wasn't finished, and I was like, my god. I don't know, stupid. The sad thing is, if he actually, like anyone, channeled all this Maelian energy to something positive, he would probably have an okay living, like he could probably be a decent carpenter or a decent contractor or even maybe a computer coder. The police one day, I think there were two cops that gave me some solace. One said, Heather, it's not against the law to lie and be an asshole, although it should be. I'm like, Yep. And then this other cop told me to Heather, people like him don't change, he's never going to change. And that was the funny thing. The very first time I ever spoke to the mother of the child, she said to me, We thought he changed with you. And I was like, Oh my gosh. You obviously know little, very little about human psychology because people don't change. But on one hand, that was a bit of a weird compliment for me because I guess while we were together for a long part of our relationship, he felt secure enough to be able to go and have his parental visits and showing up and being a good person in the moment. And that's partly because I would send him off to his kid visits with the a backpack with extra clothes and snacks, just to make it look like he was really making an effort. I was on all these step-mom, I was in all these stepmom groups on Facebook, and I would listen to step-mom podcasts, and I was like, I'm ready for this. We've got this. And so in a weird way, because he would show up and be a really good dad and polite to her, she took it for he had changed, but no, guys like that, he's never gonna change. And yeah, yeah. I think deep down he did have some love for you. I do. For you, I do, because you were with him a long period of time, and you did you gave him stability, you wanted him to be a better person, and maybe he did want that, it just not bad enough. Yeah. Maybe out of all the women, though, I'm like, most of the women get the fake suicide attempts. I'm the one who gets almost arrested because he manages to turn all the stories around and make me the bad guy. Like it's when the court date went sideways that day, I had to go and give a statement at the police station. And I'm like, why do I feel like I've done something wrong? Like I was terri I was scared they were going to try and turn this around on me. But when they showed me the flyers, I started laughing. And the detective was like, Why are you laughing? And I was like, first of all, my phone number is wrong. So this flyer was like, it says something like guilty Jace Parati. And there was a picture of him and me. No, it was a picture of just him. But I was looking at that picture and I was like, oh my god. And I said to the detective, I'm like, that's the picture, that's a screen grab from a video that he made of us in the car. And I was like, but had I made this flyer, I would have used a different picture of him because it wasn't like it was only a sign of his face. And secondly, don't you think if I made a flyer asking for interviews or information on him, I would have put my real phone number. So the phone number that he put was wrong by a digit, which kind of made me mad. I was like, after being with him for over three years, he never learned my phone number. Either that or he really didn't want you to get any calls. Yeah, no, yeah. I think he I don't think anyone really saw these flyers. I think he just miraculously found them, but so funny. Yeah, I don't think anyone did either. Such a pleasure having you on. Was there anything else that you wanted to add? Just watch the documentary. I'm working on people if they want to follow me to see how things progress, they can follow me on social media. I'm not super huge on social media. I should probably try and up my game a bit, but and I'm very excited. I have been signed with a literary agency and I'm working on my memoir to go into more detail about the whole story and like the healing and all the good stuff. So that's probably, oh gosh, usually a year out, but it's exciting. Yeah. And I really do hope that one day if a woman calls the police to her house and tells them that she realizes she's living a du with somebody who's living a duplicitous criminal life, that the cops hopefully do something. And I hope that the more people that come forward with their stories and the more that romance fraud gets talked about, that maybe something will change. Nobody has to go through this again. Absolutely. The laws need to catch up to where we are in society because we are living in the stone age when it comes to that kind of stuff. 100%. So it's time they catch up, and we got to start making examples of people. That's the only way. When people see all these people getting away with it, what where's the risk? So why not? I have some ideas around that too. I should reach out to some of the dating apps. But you know how there's first of all, there's in Canada, and I'm sure it's in the States too, like when a pedophile or a sex offender gets released, they have like a national database of like sex offenders, so they have to stay registered. Maybe it is a bit extreme, but why can't these fraudsters, why can't we have a database, a publicly accessible database of these fraudsters? And if they are continually on the dating apps, and if that's the platform for them to use, like America's most wanted, why wouldn't the dating apps have the most wanted list that you could click and you'd see the Jayce Parati, Don, Mike, Bob, whatever names he's going. Here are all his aliases. Here's five pictures of him. Beware, like a beware page for women that these people keep getting reported. So if they do show up, beware, keep reporting them. That's not hard to do. It's a great idea. Yeah, it's a great idea. Yeah. Well, they'll say is, oh, it goes against their privacy. But what happened to my privacy when he bamboozled me? So no, I don't want to hear that bullshit. Maybe if the dating apps don't want to do it, we could create something like that. But yeah, but then the scary thing is when people get catchfished, it's not really them. But that's a whole other thing. Like we could have a whole conversation on just the levels of fraud and deception and manipulation that are happening. It's brutal. It's brutal. And with all the technologies, it's getting scarier and scarier, and people just we have to pay attention. We have to, everybody in society has to work together. If your bank is your bank's not gonna text you, the government's not gonna text you. It's crazy. A text once from I think it was Medicare, first of all, not even that age, and it said that my Medicare was on hold because my social security numbers have been jeopardized. It was something so off the charts, and I was like, this is an thing. But some poor person is gonna be vulnerable and fall for it. And that's the scary thing. Like, even my mom, every at least once or twice a week, she's like, I just got this weird text from Amazon. I'm like, nah, don't click. I get them too. Like, it's scary, it's crazy. I got one like some parking ticket or some speeding ticket. I'm like, and they think that you're stupid enough to click through, and then it's crazy, it's just crazy, it really is. But people like you are helping because you're letting people like me have a platform to keep talking, which is amazing. So thank you.