Why You Miss Red Flags (And How to Spot Them Early)

⚠️ Trigger Warning: Emotional abuse, manipulation

Why do we miss red flags… even when they’re right in front of us?

In this episode, I sit down with Justin Smith, creator of the dating safety app CRAY, as he shares his story of betrayal after an 8-year relationship.

He thought he was careful. Guarded. Smart.
 But even he didn’t see it coming.

This conversation will help you understand why we ignore warning signs—and how to finally start seeing them clearly.

✔️ What “meeting their representative” really means
 ✔️ Why red flags are easy to miss in the beginning
 ✔️ How trauma affects who you choose to date
 ✔️ The difference between “nice” and “kind”
 ✔️ How to trust your gut again

You’re not crazy. You just weren’t taught what to look for.

How to connect:

https://cray.app/

Transcript

Meet Cray Founder Justin Smith

SPEAKER_01 0:02

What if there was an app to teach you how to spot red flag sooner? Trust your instincts and date with clarity instead of chaos. Anyone who has ever tried online dating knows that it can cause trauma and leave real scars. I'm your host, True Crime Connections. I'm Tiffany, and today joining us is the founder of Cray Dating Safety app, Justin Smith. And he's here to explain why his app is different. First of all, love the fucking name.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Thank you. I uh came up with it myself, the logo I did myself, all the interfaces and everything I did myself. So it was a it was really a passion project for me. But yeah, people have been responding so well to the logo. I love it because I kept it inside for so long and I was so excited to show people, and now people are responding to it. And like when I give pitches, I'll pull out the sticker and people like you know, and they kind of light up. So it's cool to see that reaction finally.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

I think it's awesome, and everyone like everyone knows that. Either you're cray cray or you're cray.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Well, I that's why I did cray, because it's everyone's a little crazy, you know. We're all a little crazy in our own way. So, you know, I chose that name too because it's a great way to pull people into the topic, and they know what the app's about when they see that, along with the you know, the fox mascot. You really already know what the product does in a sense when you see just that. So that's kind of the angle I was going for.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

I think you nailed it.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Thank you, thank you. I guess my undergrad design degree came in handy after all.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:50

I used to joke it was glorified arts and crafts, but uh, you know, it it it does have a purpose.

Trauma Behind App

SPEAKER_01 1:56

It does, it does for sure. So you created this app because you went through your own trauma. I'm guessing you had you were in a relationship for eight years, and did you meet her on a dating app?

SPEAKER_00 2:08

We did, we met online. I won't get into that whole side of it, but we met, and you know, just the fact that someone could for eight years hide their true identity is wild, or that anyone could plot ahead of time to, you know, backstab someone in that way, steal money from them, turn their family against them, you know, file a false charge on them. It was it was brutal. I mean, it was like every week or month, it was just like some new revelation. And it was just got to the point where I had to go to a trauma center and recover. I checked myself into a PTSD treatment center for two months, and that's where I started like evaluating the relationship. Like, what the heck happened? You know, like how how did this happen to me who's so guarded and protected on like relationships and people and letting people in? And this woman like got through everything. So I started really like digging into the relationship and and realized there were some red flags I missed. And then I started just like, let me get all the red flags in there, let's get everything in there, let me think through every like piece of this from like my younger self, how I could have protected myself from someone like this. And that's really just how Grey kept becoming this bigger product and something that was so comprehensive in its attempt to protect people.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

I think we have all, you know, at some point in time have realized that shit, there were red flags, and we just either don't want to believe it, we want to overlook it, we make excuses, but they're there.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Oh, yeah. And my friend had a good way of putting it. When you meet someone in the beginning of a relationship, you're meeting their representative. You're not meeting the person, you're meeting their representative. They're showing up.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

That's what I say. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 3:53

That's so funny. And it's funny we live kind of in the same area. We must have the same friend. But uh yeah, it's it's just interesting because I think a lot of us, you know, when we meet someone, we have this hope of like what could be, and like our aspirations for what relationship we want, and we just kind of like shove that person into that like glorified what we're needing and hope that they fill it. And it's it's really like you can get really ruined from it, as as I know, and a lot of other people know.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Oh, for sure. I mean, I've been in a few relationships where I was like, what the fuck was I thinking?

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Like hindsight's always 2020. And I think the other thing to keep in mind is a lot of people have the rose-colored glasses, and hind, you know, looking back at the relationship, or afterwards, maybe they miss just having someone around, and so they start talking themselves into maybe I should start talking to my ex again. And so, you know, an app like this could provide clarity in those moments where you may need to refresh your memory on what it was like being with that person and uh go back through those memories through a different filter and maybe realize that there's a reason you broke up with them, and it's a good reason.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Oh, for sure. Anytime there's an ex, there there's gotta be a good reason. X's are X's for a reason. That's my I say that's unless it was like timing. No, when you say that, oh my god, like literally, I have said that for like the last 10 years. When you meet someone, you don't meet them, you meet their representative because they're trying to be all the things. Well, that representative can only last for about two to three months before the real person starts to creep in there, and when they start to show you who they truly are, you need to listen.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Oh, yeah, that's another one of my things. When someone shows you who they are, it's best believe them. Like because you know, people's behavior, and that's why the app is so great because it looks at people's behavior. People's behavior is something they can't lie about. Like if the guy's going out or the girl's going out and pounding down six beers a night or 12 beers a night and then driving because they have two DUIs, there's nothing you can like lie about that about. You know, it's like you're observing these pieces of information, and it's like, hmm, okay, that that's starting to add up into a bad picture, you know.

How Cray Works

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Right, right. So is this supposed to be like, do they meet on your app, or is this an app where you plug in about your relationship?

SPEAKER_00 6:18

So this is, I like to couch it or frame it as a self-improvement app because the focus of this is to improve the user's dating competency and their overall experience in dating. So that when the user is using this app, let's say an 18-year-old who freshly goes to college and uses this app before they've dated anyone, they're not going to get swindled by the give me money for my OnlyFans, or oh, they're being mean to me in conflict and guilting me over some past event. You know, I mean, these things are now on their radar, and just by using the app and answering the questions over and over again, it starts getting ingrained in your head. So it becomes this kind of like teaching tool for people that raises the floor of their dating competency just like that, just by using it, which is great.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

That is good because so many times we just don't want to believe it, especially if you're like, oh, I found him, he's perfect, and it's like, no girl, no, he's not, or no, she's not, you know. We just so many people just want to love, and sometimes they're just willing to go through anything just to have it.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

That was me. And I and one of the things I realized is one of my best qualities is I'm there for the people I care about. But in dating, that can be manipulated extensively. And so I realized that I can still be that person, but I have to put that behavior into something that's not like trying to win love from someone. So like I go and help the homeless once to twice a week, and I've been doing that for 14, 15 months around the Tampa Convention Center. And so I get to still fulfill that need within me, but I get to pour it into something that's like productive rather than like trying to, and I'm not saying I did this, but love bombing or something like that, where that energy might have gotten poured into in an unhealthy channel. So, you know, there's things like that that in dating we have to evaluate in ourselves too. Like, am I in a place to date? You know, should I be dating? Do I have the right mindset about why I'm dating or what I'm looking for in the partner? Am I changing the criteria of what I'm looking for so I don't repeat the past, you know, repeating patterns that keep happening because I haven't changed as a person? I mean, these are all like dating's just a mindfield in a lot of different ways.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Absolutely. Even by you saying that, I just thought of two different friends that I know are kind of playing in both pools, you know, and it's like, no, do it when it's right. Don't feel like you have to, and don't ever try to force yourself to change for somebody else.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Oh, yeah. One of the things I talked about, I don't know if you've heard me say this before, but self-love is such a huge part of this for me, and that I think other people would benefit from, because then you realize that everyone around you isn't treating you how you deserve, or that there at least are people that aren't treating you how you deserve. And that's probably part of the problem of why your situation keeps ending up in a negative situation, because the self-love isn't strong enough to date someone that's rewarding and is a value added to you. So, you know, that's one thing I like to talk about when I go on these podcasts too, because I think that could help a lot of people. Because a lot of times when we go into these unhealthy relationships, it's because we have a hole that we're trying to fill in our heart. And we we want that love to fill it, but it's not going to. It never will. Someone else's love can never fill that hole in your heart. And so you really have to lean into loving yourself and doing things that remind yourself that you're important and that you're special and that you deserve good things.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Right. I mean, you can't love anyone else unless you love yourself.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Absolutely. And I don't think even people think of that because we live in a society where we want our rewards. We want that dopamine rush. We want that, you know, that burst of good feeling. Even if it's coming from a bad source or a you know, a bad foundation, people still jump into it because it gives them that that cheap thrill or that that that fix they want.

Social Media Red Flags

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Oh, for sure. You get addicted to it.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Yeah, in the online world today, I think that's the biggest problem with our our dating and social media situation. It's like this almost sociopathic way of looking at things. Like I only chase after the likes, I only chase after the money, I only and you're not dating for like what's underneath. You're not dating someone because you both like chess or you both like tennis or you both, you know, believe in volunteering. And it's unfortunate because I think the younger generation just has never been exposed to that piece of it. So they operate in this superficial look at me cool on social media realm where they're they'll never get fulfilled or in a good relationship because the foundation is crap.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

Right. And another thing is people are constantly like they're comparing themselves to other people online, and you can't do that because half the people are full of fucking shit.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

They say comparison is the thief of joy. Have you heard that one before? Yeah, I have not. Well, you feel good about yourself, you're having a great day, and then you go online, you see that girl from high school that was your rival going on some vacation, someone you're like, well, fuck, I'm not happy anymore. Now I'm pissed off. Why is that bitch going? You know, like it gets in this whole like unhealthy stuff. Yeah, and and that's what sucks about social media. It's great at connecting people, but it's great at making you feel low. So yeah, I try and stay off of it as much as I can or avoid it. Or, you know, to me, in some ways, I'd consider a person dependent on social media as a red flag. Because that usually means that there's just this hole that they're trying to fill with attention and not a great situation to be in as a dating partner.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

No, especially I mean you're gonna go out to dinner and they're gonna stare at their phone the whole night. Like, what's the point?

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Well, yeah, or if they're just that attention-seeking validation type, they'll dress provocatively to get attention, or they'll flirt with someone at the bar just to get that, you know, little boost of feeling good about themselves, or you know, those little things. And that ends up taking away from the other person in the relationship, their happiness and feeling secure and feeling like someone loves them. I mean, those things have a really like you know deep impact in your soul.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Oh, for sure. Yeah. I mean, all of it has impacts on people, and you don't realize it until it's unfortunately until it's too late.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Yeah, and that's how I felt once I got out of this relationship, because everyone in my family still believes this woman is a great woman, which is crazy. After everything she's done to me and everything I've publicly stated about it, and they she's a nice person, they say. She's a narcissist. She's a gaslighting narcissist, which is what made it so difficult during the the rupture in the marriage where she tried to create an incident that would cause me to have a breakdown. It was all this like gaslighting, I couldn't tell up from down from left from right, and it was just very difficult to get through. And that's why I started looking at the objective data, because you know, you can't fake that. That's that's not stuff that you can make up. So that's where I started realizing that this is great for providing clarity, especially for people with trauma who don't recognize red flags because they grew up in an abusive household or an alcoholic household or their parents abandoning them and not giving a shit about them. I mean, these things add up and and it it shapes the way that we seek out our dating partner.

Childhood Trauma Links

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Oh, yeah, I say everything starts in childhood. And like I ended up finding out in my 30s that I was a product of generational trauma. And so that's what landed me into abusive relationships because you think that is love when they talk down to you and they, you know what I mean? Like that was normal. And back then they didn't have all these fancy names. There was no gaslighting, no narcissists, no love bonds, like none of that even was anything. So, for one thing, like when all that stuff came out, it was so validating to be like, oh my god, there was something wrong. It wasn't me.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

It's it is crazy once you kind of are in the trauma and pull yourself out to where you can look at the things that have happened. There's this great book called The Body Keeps the Score. Have you read that before?

SPEAKER_01 14:53

I have not, but I've heard about I just heard it's a really slow start, and I'm not that much of a reader, so I don't know if I can.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Well, if you have trauma, this will be eye-opening because there's certain things in there that they talk about. Like, for example, I was born with a fever, and so for the first two weeks or week of my life, I was in the hospital and my mom didn't hold me. And there's a there's a correlation between babies who do that and adults who don't have emotional regulation, they have emotional regulation issues because they weren't with their mother who would sue them when they were feeling bad. So they would just cry out in the NICU or wherever else. And so the body keeps the score, documents that the guy who wrote the book was one of the leading researchers of PTSD. And so he talks through his experience of kind of diving in and understanding these things and some of the correlations he noticed and patterns and uses specific patient examples. So it's really interesting because it gives you some context for like stuff that we deal with that we can't articulate and gives you some understanding that you know this is a normal reaction for someone with trauma, or that maybe this explains why you have emotional regulation issues because childhood issues showing up as an adult. You know, it's all connected, fortunately or unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Absolutely. That's why, like on my podcast, I really like try to stress to people like, please just be nice to your kids. Like, please, you know, you're gonna have good days, you're gonna have bad days. That that's life. But the way you treat them is how they're going to be in adulthood. And unless you want like a Ted Bundy as your kid, like let's let's protect them. How about that?

SPEAKER_00 16:43

No, I agree. And you know, I have a four-year-old, I have two older kids, a 19 and a 15-year-old. And with the four-year-old, I'm at an age now where I understand more about parenting and all that, and my focus has been on making him feel seen and making him feel heard. It's not just about being nice, because anyone can be nice to someone. My ex-partner of eight years, who stabbed me in the back, was nice. But when someone feels seen, there's no rupture of that relationship because they know that you see them deep inside and they know that you'll be there for them. They know you understand them. And it's been amazing seeing that with my four-year-old because he has no doubt about me in any shape or form and my commitment to him, or you know, he calls me his best friend. You know, it's it's it's really I know it is the sweetest. He's the sweetest boy. But you know, I I agree with you. I think that kids are a reflection of the parents, and you know, there's not enough people out there who really care about what their child's doing when, or what kind of content they're consuming, or what kind of guidance they're getting, or how they're spending their time. It's unfortunate.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Yeah, it really is. And unfortunately, a lot of times addiction plays in and the drug wins over the child, and that's that's very unfortunate. So somehow we have to find a way to reach parents and tell them, like, okay, even if you did fuck up, we all fuck up. Like, like parenting doesn't come with a book of instructions, it's trial and error. So, you know, you're gonna make mistakes, but it's okay, just learn from them and keep getting better. It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Yeah, I feel like there's this, it's interesting because there's like this iPad generation, parents aren't as involved in teaching their kids the rules of life, so to speak. And that was something that I thought of the app in context of as I was building it because I thought back to my younger self and I made a lot of stupid mistakes. I was like 19 and let a girl move in with me who needed a place to live, because I was like, oh, she having a girl live with you is gonna be awesome. It was worst decision I could have made. And so I tried to think through that kind of stuff because we need to teach the kids, we need to show them the proper way to behave. And I'm actually adding a piece to Cray, which I haven't publicly talked about, but it's called the base score, B-A-E. And instead of all the safety and negative stuff, this is gonna be the ideal stuff to look for in a partner so that I'm not just telling people what to avoid, I'm gonna teach them what the qualities are to look for in someone. Communication during conflict, things like that, like healthy things, traits that matter and will lead to a good outcome in a relationship. Because I feel like because these kids aren't getting taught, they don't know what to look for. And so someone needs to help them have that knowledge. And so that's kind of why I built the app how I did and made it so comprehensive and with all the information. I even made the vibe check, which is a AI interpretation of the reports so that it has like actionable information and things to look out for in the next coming weeks, you know, things like that. Because it's needed, man. Like, as we keep saying.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Like, yeah, especially teenagers who are fresh out and they're dating and they don't understand, like he tells you don't wear that in public or don't eat that. Okay, first off, that's a no-no. Like, okay, dump him. Like something as small as that, because it's only gonna escalate. Yeah, so anytime they put their hands on you, it's only gonna escalate. Like, people don't change, they really don't.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Yeah, once the patterns have once the behavior has shown itself, because I even say, you know, the minor things are signs of the big things. Because even thinking back to my partner of eight years, the first day I introduced her to my kid, there was this one moment where I was like, that that might be the sign of something. And it sounds stupid, but once you hear it, you're like, okay, I kind of get it. I always told my kids that Justin Bieber sucked as a human because he was just a crappy human, did all these, you know, outlandish things, and just was first day she shows up, she's like, I love Justin Bieber, your dad's wrong, he's great. And in my brain, I was like, Because right then it doesn't sound bad, but when you analyze it, your dad's not the authority, I'm the source of truth. Your dad is not the source of truth. And that was the message that she sent from day one. And so from then on, anything I said now, it's just your dad saying it. You know, like that's the approach they have to it. So those little things do matter, and I think it's it's important that people really just keep their ears open and and you know, listen for those things that make their ears kind of perk up.

Projection Warning Signs

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Yeah, don't just hear it, listen. Because a lot of time there's truth, and even like when people say, I'm not this, this, and this, if you listen enough, you you might realize there's you mean like the person who says I don't like drama?

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Yeah. No, I agree. I I gotta you know what I've learned too is that people who are not sophisticated, and I'll use that word loosely. Can only do projection because they're only as smart as their own brain and the ideas that come up with things they want to do. So projection is something I think that is also important to keep an eye out for in the beginning of a relationship. Because people can do a lot of mental gymnastics. It's it's quite impressive.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so when you said you were like gone girl, at first I was like, did she like set you up for murder?

SPEAKER_00 22:29

No, no, but so so I'll essentially what happened was she had been emotionally.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

See, what happened was she was emotionally abusive about strip clubs for eight years of the relationship. I had gone to them before we met a couple of times and she didn't like it. And I was like, Well, it's not a big deal, let's go sometime. She's like, No, no, no, that's terrible. You can't go, blah, blah, blah. In March of 2024, I find out she's going to a bachelorette trip and they were gonna go to a male strip club. And I was like, You're you're against this. What do you what are you talking about? You've been abusive about this issue. This has been like an anger issue, and she's like, it's not a big deal. Come on, I'll go to a strip club with you before the trip. And I was like, I don't want to rush into a strip club just so you can go see guys naked. And like, so she went and hit it. And then I started looking at the financial stuff, and I saw she transferred herself$16,000 three days before that. And then a month before that, she transferred her mom or excuse me, herself$10,000, and then her mom$16,000 a month before that. So just so happens, in this innocuous situation where she went on this trip, didn't plan it, she stole$26,000 a month before. And then once I went into treatment, she increased her spending by 40% so she could justify. Like it was just all these little like things that it was like no one who wasn't trying to screw me over would have acted in this way. The only way that someone would have acted this way is if they were premeditating all this and they were trying to cause me immense pain to cause me to have a breakdown. Like she ran off with our son for a month. Like it was just all these like escalations to try and instigate a reaction out of me because she knows I have PTSD and that it would be very stressful. And people who have PTSD, when they're extremely overloaded, they become emotionally dysregulated. And that was that was her plan ever since then and moving forward. So taught me a lot about red flags and what to look for in people, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

A lot of times, too, they'll do that, so then they can play the victim, see how he is, see, see like how, yep, see how unhade or unhinged. Whoo, not unhade, that's not even a word. But yeah, like you see how unhinged he is. This is what I deal with, and then everybody's on their side and against you.

Nice Versus Kind

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Well, that's exactly what happened. And the funniest part is there was all this stuff in the backstory, like that none of my family knew because I I'm that guy that like a curtain is over the relationship, and I don't want my family knowing about it, so I it they they refuse to believe any of the things I've said, just because it's like this nice person could never have done that, and it's interesting because this taught me a lot about the difference between nice and kind. Do you know the difference between the two words?

SPEAKER_01 25:26

I didn't, I guess I don't think I ever thought about it.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Oh, I leaned into this because it this really bothered me because she comes across as this really you know sweet, innocent, like wouldn't hurt a fly kind of person. Nice is just doing something nice for someone. Kind is doing something nice for someone, but where you suffer some loss in doing it for them. So, for example, me going and helping the homeless is kind because I don't get anything from it. I don't, I don't preach the Bible, I don't ask them to do anything for me, I just give them the food and I pay for it, I take the time. Whereas, like a nice thing could be someone taking off a sweaty shirt and giving it to a homeless person. Here's your shirt, but the source of it is a bad act and not really a genuine nice thing. So that's why I always like to bring up the difference between those two, because I think there's a lot of people out there that, especially sociopaths or people with you know personality disorders, who are great at doing virtue signaling and latch on to these virtues to hide the fact that they're such a bad person. Um, and that was the case with her, you know. All of a sudden when I met her, she turned into this virtue signaling person, copying a lot of my virtues or my family's virtues and things like that. So she fit in, and no one wants to believe anything else, you know.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

And then once they're in, that switch. Yeah, it's it's something real. I can't tell you how many guests I've even had on that said, like when they were dating their to be husband, he was great. The minute they said I do, a completely different person appeared. Yeah, it's like, well, I got you where I want you now. Yeah, like completely different person. They were all like, I wouldn't have married a person like that because it became you can't have friends, you can't talk to family, you can't do anything. It's like, what the hell? Yeah, so I mean, yeah. Yeah, I think it's just you never know.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

I think it's scary for sure. You never know about people. Like the thing that clued me in too was on our wedding day, she didn't have the vows done, and she didn't cry. And those two things like ate at me. I was like, you know, I cried at our wedding, and it just seemed like glossed over kind of lizard expression type thing, and it just, you know, so those little things like you gotta look for them. I don't know how to look for someone who is abusive like that, who keeps it secret for years in the cases you're talking about. Those men, unfortunately, when someone is that determined to be that deceptive, there's nothing that you could do to get that out of their head and get them to admit that that's their goal.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Well, and one of the girls married him only within a few months. So there's that one. Oh yeah, I'm like, what are you what were you thinking? And then she did it like three other times. I'm like, have you learned your lesson yet?

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Like that gets back to if you don't realize what your trauma is or how it's impacting your dating, you'll keep repeating the same patterns, and that's terrible. I my dad, the psychologist, and had said, and I somewhat agree with this, that people can hide their personality or what they're like for over a year. Like you shouldn't do anything like marry someone or make a serious leap like moving in together if you haven't dated longer than you know, at least a year or two. Because that's when you'll that's when the the actors and the the pretend people they can't keep it up that long. They just can't. It would be exhausting, it would creep out, they'd let it near their temper or whatever, you know, creep out somehow. So yeah, I think it's unfortunate that we have people who are like that, but you gotta pay attention to the little things for sure.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Oh, yeah. I mean, for the most part, I think most people can't really keep it up past that representative stage. You only got a few months, but there are people who are like career criminals, I guess you could say, conmen, that can keep it up for longer. I mean, you'll find somebody who's been married to somebody for 30 years and found out he's been like a serial rapist. Like it's insane. How did you not know? I think that kind of stuff is or a serial murderer, like it happens, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Or they have like another family. It's like I you know, I don't I don't know what the diagnosis of someone who is able to, you know, to do that. I that's just crazy because it shows you say it's a personality disorder, yeah. I mean, I'm you know, narcissism or you know sociopathy, I don't know. I just not caring for someone and treating them that way, I just can't imagine the devastation. It was bad enough for me with eight years. 30 years? Ugh. Yeah, I almost had a heart attack when it happened to me or a stroke. My I lost 40 pounds in two months. I my blood pressure was 180 over 120 for that time, and then my resting heart rate was 100 beats per minute. So yeah, like even at eight years, it almost killed me. I just can't imagine 30.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

Right. And but some of them will be like there wasn't any signs, like they were great to them, but they were out killing at night. It's like it's uh mind-blowing. It's mind-blowing.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

Yeah, I feel like it's like there's gotta be some warning signs, like the BTK killer. I mean, that guy, you know, he hit at a church and all that. I mean, there was a lot of minor signs along the way. I feel or that German guy who had his daughter held captive. Like, there's gotta be signs. Like, people are doing horrific stuff like that. I think the the partners are just maybe the I'm turning a blind eye because I don't want to believe the the facts that I'm seeing are true about my partner, because then that would mean I'm bad at choosing a partner. It's just unfortunate. There's a lot of different ways that we can be deceived.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Yeah. Well, I love that you are starting to build one like for what to look for, because that is so important. It just shouldn't be all negative negative. So I love that.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Yeah, and that that's that was really my goal was to get the safety piece out there first, and then I can build the other pieces on it. Like one of my goals was to write a dating guide. I had started to write one years ago, and I got in a relationship, and it felt wrong to be working on that while I'm in a committed relationship, so I just stopped writing it. But it feels I know, I know. It was weird in my head, but it feels like it would be a nice addition at this time because now that I have the what not to look for, what to look for, I'm creating a dating certification, safety and education certification class. And then now I can have a book that can come out and teach them like where to plan dates for. Are you ready to date? Those other pieces that's like take putting the training wheels on the bike or taking them off, so to speak, so that you know they have some guidance that will help them be successful and not like you know, Andrew Tate giving crap advice on how to pick up women.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Right. What's your sign?

SPEAKER_00 32:39

I yeah, I'll never understand that whole toxic masculinity thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

I actually created a red flag checklist myself. I haven't like published it or anything yet. Yeah, I really did. I started thinking of the things that I had gone through, or I've heard my friends go through, and I wrote it all down because some of it is things that you don't think is abuse, but it is, and so it's like, okay, well, let's hit them in a different, a different lens, you know. Do you experience this, this, this, this? Like, are you allowed to talk on the phone? Can you talk on the phone? You know, that's big. Like, if you're not allowed to in their presence, that's a problem. Yeah, you can't wear lipstick in public, that's a problem.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Oh, for sure. I I covered that in the app with they try to change who you are because that is a if you're in a relationship with someone who loves you and supports you, they don't want to change you because they're with you because they love you, and they want to see you maybe become a better version of yourself, but that doesn't mean controlling your access to things or your money or your friends or telling you not to wear an outfit or your hair looks bad that way. Those are you know negative things and something an abusive person would do. So I think it's important people, you know, look at the big picture in those things. Like, yeah, he may have commented on that one outfit, but connected with all these other things he comments on, it's a clear pattern of abuse and control.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Right. Absolutely. Control is usually the number one factor.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

For women, I would imagine, like dealing with that from a man. Yeah, I would imagine. So I think, and that's why I built there's the cray score that's free, and then there's the schemer score that's free. And the schemer score in my mind was kind of aimed at men filtering women because that's become a huge thing online for men and a huge danger. Blackmailing or bribery or whatever, you know, that kind of stuff, or even give me$20 so I can get Starbucks or My OnlyFans or whatever. And if you liked me, you'd do that. And only the guys who do that are people I date. You know what I mean? It's like there's a few red flags in there. So I wanted to make products that kind of hit on some of the pain points for each gender, but in totality, create a whole picture.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

I mean, it definitely goes both ways. Absolutely. So nobody is neglected here. Unfortunately. So I mean, I think it's great. And so your app, it's completely free.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

So the cray score and schemer score are free. I have to pay to get data for the APIs for the catfish check, which is a phone number lookup to make sure it's not a fraudulent number. And then there's the background check, which is a legal history lookup in the state of your choosing against someone's name. So the that is$7.99 and the catfish check is$1.99. I made them cost competitive because I'm not trying to make money off, like a ton of money off of it. Obviously, I have to cover my costs, but my goal is to make this at a price point where college kids could easily afford it, you know, like before they go out on a date or whatever. It's not going to be like, oh, can I afford this? You know, safety is number one. And then there's another in that purchase that's 99 cents. And what that is, is you can use either the Crayscore free report, plug it in, and get an interpretive report, which gives you a bunch of guidance and things to look out for, maybe some, you know, the bigger red flags or things look out for in the next few weeks, maybe some good signs of things that haven't been brought up. So the goal was to make it more digestible for people, but I had to pay to do that through AI. So, you know, unfortunately I had to charge for those things, but I tried to make them really cheap.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

I mean, it's 99 cents really.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

That's what I said. That's that's the mindset I wanted. I wanted people to go in that and be like, it's only 99. Well, fuck yes, you know, like I I want that effect where it's you know, this just becomes something that people use, and the cost isn't really a big factor in them using it. And I even tried to do that with the merch that I have on sale, it's all you know, cost effectively priced for people.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

Yeah, you have to. I mean, obviously it's nice to make a little something, but at the same time, you're spreading awareness, and I think that's important. We need that, especially in today's age, because this world is getting fucking crazier by the day.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

I I agree. And I felt like I I it would it would have been disingenuous on my part to to put a hurdle in place if my goal is dating safety and and and saving people from toxic relationships and trauma. I I couldn't do that as effectively if it wasn't free to give them those pieces. The only way I could have the most impact was to make them free. So that that was a a core like goal of mine was to keep those two reports free.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

Right. And I think it's amazing. I actually had created an app that had a BUPA feature. And so, like, say me and you meet on a dating app and you you end up being a creeper and I block you. Say you come within like a certain amount of feet, it's gonna actually let me know that you are near me.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Wow, that's an interesting app. It's like a restraining order that you get to like self-impose.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

It's just so hard to get people to want to download an app. So I was like, I don't know, and yeah, I mean that I have other joints. Well, but it was a great yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

It is a great feature. It's funny because I came up with I didn't I almost created this product. I paid someone to do like some of the beginning stuff, but it was a hardware that the parent would have and a little child would have, and it would notify you when they go out of a certain distance from you, and it would tell you which direction they were. But I realized the same thing that it's it's a big upheaval to get people to change the way they do things. Luckily with Cray, there's nothing out there that really provides this. So I was it kind of is just an open space, which was helpful.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

Yeah, I like it. I love what you're doing. I'm gonna make sure that I put in the show notes what it how to download it for Apple and Google.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

Yeah, Google Play. They change it from Android to Google Play. It throws me off too. I uh even in the like flyers I create, I'm like, no, that's not what it is. It's Google Play. I can't keep up anymore. Yeah, I have to ask my kids to show me stuff sometimes, and that's that's a defeating feeling.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

That's how you know you're getting old, bud.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Or just the students at UT have now started waiting for me to go off the elevator first. I'm like, oh my god, am I now at that age where they're like, let the old man off first, you know? I'm like, oh god, I am now that age.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

When someone calls me ma'am, I want to cringe. I'm like, I'm not a ma'am.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

I totally get it. I'm so there with you. Yeah, I I turned 46 this year, and uh you know, occasionally I get the people who are like, you look like you're in your 30s, but you know, the rest of the time I feel my age.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

No, I get it. Actually, I'll be 46 this coming year as well. So 80s, baby.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

That's so funny.

SPEAKER_01 40:01

Is there anything else that you wanted to add?

SPEAKER_00 40:04

I mean, no, I we talked about a great deal of stuff, and I've really enjoyed sitting here chatting. It's been fun. And getting the chance to tell your listeners about the product and my life story is really what I'm here for to hopefully save some lives and save some pain. And maybe people hear what a horrific time I had and realize that you know, using a tool like this would be a lot better choice than risking it on their own or getting their dad's advice or their mom's advice or their jealous best friend or whoever. And yeah, you know, I just I'm I'm thankful you gave me the opportunity to get the word out. So I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 40:42

Of course, I love it. I think it's great and I think it's needed for sure.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

Absolutely. I I I'm hoping that you know I I won't need to use it anytime soon. I've kind of taken a pause on dating for a bit after what I've been through. So but in the future, hopefully I'll need it. Maybe not.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

Yeah, well, hopefully you won't need it. All right, well, then I'm gonna say thank you so much for being here. And again, I'm gonna have all the links in the show notes. So anyone who thinks they need Cray, that's where you're gonna find it.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

All right, and it's the website's C R A Y, periodap, Cray dot app.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

All right. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Thank you.