The Mama Making Podcast

Jaclyn Downs | Breaking Down MTHFR, Histamine & Fertility

• Jessica Lamb, Jacly Downs • Season 3 • Episode 111

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In this episode of The Mama Making Podcast, host Jessica chats with functional genomic expert Jaclyn Downs about the powerful connection between genetics, nutrition, and reproductive health. Jaclyn breaks down complex topics like MTHFR and histamine intolerance, and how they can impact fertility and overall well-being.

They explore how personalized health strategies—grounded in genetic testing and nutritional support—can help women feel more empowered in their health journeys. Whether you're navigating fertility challenges or just curious about how your genes affect your wellness, this conversation offers practical insights and a fresh perspective on reproductive care.  

You can connect with Jaclyn:

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Jessica Lamb (00:57)
Hello everyone and welcome to the Mama Making Podcast. If you're new here, I'm your host Jessica. If you're not new, then welcome back. Today I'm very excited to have Jacqueline Downs on the podcast. Jacqueline is a functional genomic nutritionist.

Jacqueline focuses on getting to the root cause of conditions and has taken a special interest in reproductive health. We're going to chat about a very small subsection of probably all of the work that you do in talking about histamine intolerance and then getting a little bit into the MTHFR gene. Thank you Jacqueline for being here. I'm excited to have you.

Jaclyn Downs (01:31)
Thank you for having me.

Jessica Lamb (01:33)
So share a little bit more about yourself, who you are, where you're from, whatever you're comfortable sharing.

Jaclyn Downs (01:37)
Okay, my name is Jacqueline Downs, as you know, and my previous career was in birth work as a doula, an apprentice to a home birth midwife attending primarily Amish and Mennonite births and prenatal postpartum yoga instruction. And I even got trained in placenta encapsulation. And it was, and I talk about this in my

academically published book. So I am the author of Enhancing Fertility Through Functional Medicine Using Nutriogenomics to Solve Quote Unquote Unexplained Infertility. And that book really discusses common but lesser known causes of oxidative stress and inflammation that are at the root of almost every chronic and puzzling condition. And so while the book is geared towards fertility practitioners and

people that are very intent on educating themselves about their fertility journey. It really could apply to anybody with any kind of oxidative stress that's causing a problem. And in my book, I talk about how when I was in my early 20s, I was apprenticing with this midwife and I didn't realize how many people were experiencing.

miscarriages and fertility challenges. And this was in the Plain community primarily. And so if these people lead slower, more simple lifestyles than we do, then it's gotta be worse in the English, which is non-Amish, in the English population. fast forward at least a decade to me having my own children and I can't...

really be available to be on call to attend births and stuff. I've always been interested in nutrition. My dad was a nutritional biochemist. And I talk about that in my book, but I ended up getting a job being a research assistant for Naturopath to research a gene called MTHFR. And I giggle now because what started out as my whole entire job researching MTHFR

that lasted for a couple weeks and then it turned into all the genes within the methylation pathway and then genes that intersect that pathway with other pathways and just this huge spectrum of genes and pathways and biochemical processes and it turned it into the genetic interpretation software that I use today to do my genetic interpretations with people and so I figured this is really

an effective way and a really, really sharp tool that I can use and I can teach people about, and I could pass the baton of being a doula and attending births because not many people are taking my approach to health and fertility.

Jessica Lamb (04:21)
Yeah, I think that's a really interesting kind of segue into where you've landed now. What kind of intersections are you finding where the reproductive health section of things

Jaclyn Downs (04:34)
how nutrition and fertility or nutrigenomics and fertility intersect? Yes, okay, so every single gene in our body that, every single, let me start over. Every single reaction in our body takes place because of a gene. So the gene contains the blueprint for making an enzyme in order to make something happen.

Jessica Lamb (04:37)
Yes.

Jaclyn Downs (04:54)
That's to transport nutrients, make nutrients, to grade neurotransmitters, hormones, detox. But those enzymes require nutritional cofactors in order to work. Just like an engine requires specific fuels, your genes require specific nutrients in order to make sure that that enzymatic reaction is taking place. so, nutrigenomics is...

the intersection between how our state of health affects our genetic expression and how our genes affect our health status. So when we have nutrient deficiencies or we have like our livers are burdened with these barrage of toxins that we have in this modern day, then that's like throwing wrenches in the metabolic system. And so the reproductive system,

is the first thing to take the hit. Because evolutionarily, it was like if a bear was chasing us and we were stressed out, it's going to know, obviously now is not a good time to make a baby, let's deal with the stressor. So we'll rob Peter to pay Paul. So the energy that we would use to grow a baby, we're going to use to make sure we can keep running from this bear. so stress really, really does impact our fertility, but especially our eggs and our sperm being cells.

take the first hit because it really all comes down to cellular health. So I mentioned oxidative stress. So let me just define what oxidative stress is because part of the reason I say in my book that I want oxidative stress to be a common household term. Oxidative stress is damage to the cell. It's damage to the cellular structure and components, but also damage to the information that the cell contains. And so it really

Our whole entire health, the whole health of our body comes down to cellular health. If the cell's not healthy, then the tissue and the organs and the systems are all going to be out of balance. So keeping the cell healthy. so if the body is sensing danger or stress or toxicity or deficiency, then it is going to say, well, we don't need to make a baby to stay alive. So let's just stop sending.

energy and nutrients to the egg and sperm so we can deal with the problem at hand.

Jessica Lamb (07:02)
So what are the ways that we can begin to kind of dive into seeing where our cells are in terms of what's being, what's kind of deficient? How do we kind of jump in to be like, okay, where's my body at? How do I know where I'm at?

Jaclyn Downs (07:18)
So with my clients, we have a very meticulous intake form. It has all kinds of question on sleep, periods, exposures, dental history, skin issues, all kinds of stuff. And then we can do functional lab testing as well, like a urine organic acids test or a mycotoxins test, which tests for mold toxins, various kinds of testing and the genetics. So when you have the genes and the symptoms and the labs,

then all the arrows are pointing in the same direction and you get a much better idea for what is going on and if there is a deficiency or an imbalance and if so, to what degree.

Jessica Lamb (07:56)
So what would that look like for the average person coming? How would they know I need to get myself tested through this myriad of testing?

Jaclyn Downs (08:05)
Well, ideally people would come to me before resorting to assisted reproductive technologies because rather than just forcing hormones to be in specific ranges, let's find out why the hormones, which are just messengers, why the hormones are in the ranges that they are.

And so that is things like toxicities and mold and nutrient deficiencies and certain stressors, whether it's physical stressor, emotional stressor, environmental stressor. So identifying those things with functional lab testing and also how vulnerable you are to those things based on what your genes are saying can really give us an idea for root cause issues. And then should you need to go

down the assisted reproductive technology route, your body is going to be so much more responsive because you've taken out the things that are really burdening the body and sounding the alarm.

Jessica Lamb (09:00)
So what are some of the, so prior to having to utilize fertility treatments, what are some of the telltale signs and symptoms that would say, hey, something is a little off that we need to fix or repair prior to even having testing done?

Jaclyn Downs (09:19)
Well, your period is like your monthly report card. So you want to make sure that you're having regular, boring, uneventful periods that aren't painful. They're not irregular. they're just, just, you know, regular every, I would say 26 to 33 or 34 days somewhere in there and not too cloudy, not too heavy, not too light, not too crampy. All of that.

But also if you like I have a lot of clients that just they say like I just I feel the inflammation and so people feel it in different ways but anything that ends in itis is Inflammation and so you can generally tell you have inflammation based on swelling heat or pain or redness and so

Now, just because you have, like, for instance, arthritis, right? So you're going to feel that in your joints. That doesn't mean that that inflammation is only residing in the joints. That's just where you're noticing it. That's your body's check engine light to say, hey, there's some inflammation going on in this body. And this is where we are making it obvious for you to.

check in and turn inward and find out what there's either something that is in the body that the body doesn't want there or it's needing something that you're not providing to the body. And so my job is to help you figure that out and address those things and bring the body back into balance.

Jessica Lamb (10:44)
So if somebody has done all the testing, they've done their first consult with you, they get all the testing done. What does it look like from that point?

Jaclyn Downs (10:51)
It's very customized. So based on your goals and also what you've tried in the past, what worked, what didn't work, that really helps to inform where I go. And so I could have five different clients with wonky blood sugar issues and there's five different reasons for it. And so there's different genes that can affect it. And so

Really knowing somebody's genetic blueprint can help us to get way more targeted and precise with the protocol that we set up to manage that, to really support the functioning of that genetic expression and to help the body course correct.

Jessica Lamb (11:35)
So with all the different testing options that you have, what is it, I mean, for the lay person, what is it testing for? What are genes telling us through these tests?

Jaclyn Downs (11:46)
Your genes, like I said, can control every single reaction in your body. So really it depends on what you're trying to accomplish. So there's genes that control your neurotransmitter transport and degradation and production. So if you're having mood disorders and anxiety or depression, panic attacks, that kind of stuff, we can look at neurotransmitter related genes. We can look at hormone related genes, which again,

certain genes, certain CYP genes are responsible for creating and converting and degrading hormones, but also our detox pathways. Our hormones get detoxified. depending on where you might be more genetically-variated, we could support that, whether it's the conversion or whether it's the clearance.

Really it's like, do you have more oxidative stress than your body can handle? And so do we need more antioxidants? If so, which particular antioxidants and how much antioxidants? Because knowing your genes, we can see, okay, well you need more antioxidants, but is it because your genes are not producing adequate levels? Or is it because you have so much inflammation because your genes are just trigger happy?

inflammatory messenger genes like your cytokines and your interleukins, they sometimes or often are very trigger happy and very hypersensitive. And so they just send out all these inflammatory messages. And so that creates more inflammation in the body than there actually needs to be. And so if you have genetic predispositions or you're just in a toxic environment and you're creating a lot of this inflammation, we're going to need

the appropriate amount of antioxidants to put out the fire.

Jessica Lamb (13:31)
Yeah, it sounds like doing the gene testing versus just like a plain and simple blood test would really open up the, open up the options as to how you can kind of attack whatever your issue is. I imagine, so obviously your genes are telling you one thing about themselves, but then it's also telling you the outside factors and how your body's responding to things. I recently did a,

gene site testing. And I was shocked by how many things I thought were like, something I'm doing is incorrect when really it was, this is just how my genes operate. And this gene is on and this gene is off. And I didn't realize that not everything is what I'm doing or putting into my body. Sometimes it's just, this is how your body operates and learning how to utilize what the your genes are telling you, I imagine is essential to

optimizing your health in general, then your reproductivity as well.

Jaclyn Downs (14:27)
Yes, so your genes are basically like the cards that you're dealt, but the way that you play them is really like how you can win the game. And it really does all come down to whether or not that gene is expressing and what would be causing it to express if it's a gene that you don't want expressed. And so...

The more that I learn, the more biochemistry, the more genetics I learn, it really does come down to the foundational things that are beneficial for all humans. And I have a chapter in my book that's like, doesn't matter what your genetic blueprint is, these are things that are good for every single human and actually are essential for health. And that is, know, clean air, clean water, moving your body, being outside, getting your feet on the ground, getting enough sleep.

you know, avoiding the toxins. And so those are the things that can really dictate whether or not your genes turn off and on. And, you know, if you've been in a toxic environment of some sort for a really long time, then you are going to need targeted supplementation to move that pendulum back. But hopefully that's not going to be something that you need.

forever and ongoing. Now for some people that are really genetically-variated in certain genes, they are going to need ongoing supplementation, but at least you know your genes are informing what you should be taking, what form you should be taking, how much you should be taking, so that you're not wasting your money or supplementing with things that you don't really need, or maybe you're not getting enough of something that you need more of.

Jessica Lamb (15:57)
Yeah, I feel like it's almost like the cheat code to, to, mean, I'm sure all of us have been guilty of being like, I found this supplement and it's going to fix X, Y, Z. And it might not be something that even matters to our body in the long run. So I feel like it's kind of like a cheat code to be like, okay, here's what I need to do in how much like you said, in how often or what variation, to figuring out how to optimize yourself.

Jaclyn Downs (16:21)
Yes, but again, you really want to pair your genetic testing with symptoms and labs because just because you have a genetic variant doesn't mean that it's expressing.

And so we don't want to treat the SNP. We want to look at the whole picture and assess. So really, I don't agree with almost all of the genetic interpretation services out there right now because they're just reporting about your genes. They don't know what your stress levels are, what your previous exposures were, what diets worked for you, what didn't. And so they're just saying, well, you have this genetic variant. So do this, take this. And then 10 pages later, they're saying, well, you have this genetic variant.

So avoid this and take that and that's completely contradicting what it said 10 pages ago. And so it's not really ultra personalized. It's just reporting about each individual snip rather than looking at the whole picture.

Jessica Lamb (17:16)
Yeah, it really seems like the work that you're doing is, yeah, just that grabbing the whole picture to be able to really whittle it down to the areas that need support. So I would love to get more into your work researching the MTHFR gene. What it is, what you found while you were kind of researching a bit and then how it affects us.

Jaclyn Downs (17:25)
Mm-hmm.

Okay, so MTHFR, which I don't necessarily need to say it, but it's methylene tetrahydrofolate reductase. it is, a lot of people are being told that it is the gene that converts folic acid into methylfolate, and that is incorrect. That is very incorrect. So MTHFR is what attaches a methyl group onto folate.

whether that has already been converted from folic acid or whether that's folate that has come in from diet or supplementation. So I think that the DHFR gene is really the unsung hero. That's the step before MTHFR. That is responsible for two of the five steps of converting folic acid into folate.

And then MTHFR takes that folate and turns it into methylfolate to drive the methylation pathway, which is a super important, heavy, it carries a heavy load in the body. does a lot of jobs. So it repairs DNA, makes neurotransmitters, it degrades hormones and histamine, and it's responsible for a lot of things. And so I'm not discounting the importance of MTHFR and methylation. I just think that people are focusing

solely on that. in my book, I say that's like thinking, you know what a puzzle looks like based on two pieces when really there's thousands of pieces to the puzzle.

Jessica Lamb (19:00)
So how can we utilize that whole system? Like what does it look like in, how does it present? How would we know if something is not functioning correctly in that system?

Jaclyn Downs (19:11)
So you can know what your genetic blueprint is and where your genetic weaknesses are that likely need to be supported. And then you can test for those things. You can test for pretty much anything these days. Now you probably won't be able to get that through your conventional doctor or your primary care provider, but there are tests that tests everything these days. And so if you need a really obscure marker, or I guess it would be obscure to conventional medicine,

there are labs that run these kinds of tests so that you can verify if that gene's expressing and if so, to what degree.

Jessica Lamb (19:48)
So what would it look like if that gene is not expressing ideally how you would like it to express?

Jaclyn Downs (19:54)
that depends on what the gene's function is. And so if it is, let's just say converting your glutamate into GABA. So glutamate is an excitatory neurotransmitter, which is one of the reasons why people are told to avoid monosodium glutamate or MSG, because it's very excitatory. And there's a gene called your GAD, your G-A-D. And what that does is it converts your glutamate into the calming GABA. But.

I talked about nutritional cofactors before, it requires vitamin B6 in order to work. So if you don't have enough B6, it will be like you have a genetic variant because you won't be able to convert that, right? That enzyme won't have the fuel it needs to convert into GABA. So it could be...

neurotransmitter related, hormone related, iron related, oxalate related, histamine related, and there's a lot of genes that are involved with histamine degradation. And I know you did want to talk about that. really depending on the gene will...

Oftentimes your symptoms will give you an idea of, whatever it would be. So you would feel like for the glutamate to GABA conversion, you would feel anxious and easily irritated and probably have some sleep issues or ruminating thoughts, that kind of stuff. Even like more extreme glutamate issues are if like clothing tags really are bothersome or this one's really, really random. People are like, my God, you have a crystal ball.

And I learned this doing my research. If you've ever seen what looks like a shadow out of the corner of your eye, like you're sitting in your kitchen and you're like, wait, did a bat just fly by? That's actually excess glutamate. And then extreme cases of glutamate are like seizures and bipolar and schizophrenia and that kind of stuff. Not necessarily bipolar, but...

maybe at times, but definitely schizophrenia has been linked to excess glutamate levels too. really it depends, you could have excess estrogen if you're not degrading your estrogen or if certain phase two liver detox pathways aren't degrading your estrogen. So really the symptoms going to depend on what the gene's function is and how much

off the market is.

Jessica Lamb (22:06)
Got it. That's so interesting. I feel like that front half of symptoms, you were just like checking all the boxes of things that I have an issue with. So what are some ways that, is there more that people should know about the MTHFR gene?

Jaclyn Downs (22:19)
I would say do not just only test for MTHFR and do not treat this SNP with high levels of methylfolate. That can backfire. There are many, many people that cannot tolerate methylfolate even if they have a homozygous variant, which means they got two copies. They got a copy from their both parents, right? Their mom and dad both passed them on a copy. So that means they have two copies. That means that that MTHFR enzyme is

not working as efficiently as it would if only one parent passed it down or if you don't have any variants. So the more variants that you have, you can have a one or two, heterozygous or homozygous, usually will impact the efficiency of how well that enzyme works. if you have, for instance, a homozygous MTHFR variant, you're not adding your...

methyl group onto your folate. And so you're going to be deficient in methylfolate. But, and I talk about this in my book, you don't just want to go and throw methylfolate at it because there are steps. And there's, that's why you probably have more anxiety or agitation or you feel horrible or get headaches because first off, if your methylfolate requires vitamin B12 in order to work.

So if you're deficient in B12 and you start taking methylfolate, that's gonna backfire. It's called folate trapping. Or if you have other genes that affect your methylation status or how fast you degrade things like COMT, then that could also affect how taking methylfolate would affect you or any other kind of supplements as well. So you really want to test for...

A lot of genes, I say like don't ever go with a genetic testing company that only tests a couple dozen genes because you're not going to get a comprehensive picture. You're not seeing how much you're not seeing.

Jessica Lamb (24:13)
Yeah, I think it just shows how essential it is to not only have the gene testing but then all the other testing along with it. Because you could just be like, this is the answer, but really other genes are saying, well, not really, there's a little more to this. So it sounds like it's essential to being able to get to the root cause of whatever your symptoms or issues are arising as.

Jaclyn Downs (24:36)
It does, and it helps to take out the guesswork too. Now there might still be, right, especially for people that are getting these genetic tests that are designed for high volume. So, okay, I have MTHFR, I'm going to take a high dose of methylfolate and then that's going to backfire. So yes, you got access to your cheat code, but it wasn't really that informative because it was just this.

automated canned response service, but at least you know, okay, I do need methylfolate, but what's going on that it backfired so you can sort of weed out the extraneous factors and really get to where you need to be and what you need to take or do.

Jessica Lamb (25:14)
Yeah, so how does the MTHR, am I saying that correctly? MTHFR gene, how does that kind of intertwine with reproductive health and infertility?

Jaclyn Downs (25:28)
because folate is essential for building and growing tissue, especially a baby within your body. So you wanna make sure that you have enough folate because that is really, really important for the baby's nervous system and brain development and so many other things. Like I said, it's involved with DNA repair. And so,

If it's deficient and the mom doesn't have enough of it, you can't pour from an empty cup. And so the baby's not gonna get it when those cells are rapidly dividing and they need all of the nutrients that they can get. So that's why a lot of people on a fertility journey are aware of MTHFR and only MTHFR because folate is so critical to...

fertility and growing a fetus. I do have a free cheat sheet that is my, in my opinion, the big three most important genes, the most impactful genes, and MTHFR is not on there because I wanted people to see that there are other genes besides MTHFR that are really deeply impactful for our health. And one of those is the PEMT gene, and that's the only gene

that makes something called phosphatidylcholine in our body, which is a form of choline. And in my book, I say that choline needs some time on the microphone because everybody gives folate the limelight when...

they're talking about fertility, but choline is critical for brain health, nervous system development, for fertility and for our own brain health, liver health, bioflow detoxification, cellular membrane health, for so many things. so PEMT, I can nerd out on that. But the reason why we need choline, our bodies do make some of it with that PEMT gene, but it's really commonly variated. And so...

how much you need to get through diet and supplementation is determined by how variated your PEMT gene is.

Jessica Lamb (27:31)
So how would this present in someone who is looking to get pregnant and how would it kind of affect or how would you know, there's kind of an issue here if you didn't do gene testing right away prior to trying to conceive, how would people know, hey, this is kind of an issue? How does it impact like in real time? What would it look like?

Jaclyn Downs (27:54)
Are you talking about methylation or MTHFR or the choline status? Choline?

Jessica Lamb (27:59)
polling.

Well,

I guess how it all intersects together.

Jaclyn Downs (28:04)
It would just be various symptoms. So like if you have ever tried to do any kind of a cleanse and you had a really bad reaction as far as like it's called a herxheimer or a healing crisis where you were trying to do a cleanse and you just had like awful headaches and your skin was like just got really, really bad.

got really irritable, you felt like you were coming down with a flu, something like that is an indicator that your detox pathways are really challenged.

Jessica Lamb (28:34)
And you previously talked about the detox pathways. can you explain that a little bit more and how it would present if you've got some issues in that area?

Jaclyn Downs (28:41)
Yes, so one way would one factor that can be a telltale sign that you're having issues with detoxification is that you're really super sensitive to odors, cigarette smoke, perfume, paint, that kind of stuff. It's just like your bucket is filled and you can't tolerate it anymore. And so you get an instant headache or you feel nauseous or something like that.

blood sugar dysregulation. Your blood sugar is kind of like the canary in the coal mine for your metabolic health. And so if you're having some blood sugar issues, there's likely some toxicity issues going on that's burdening your system. so, so you have blood sugar issues, headaches, headaches are really kind of ambiguous and insidious, but your headache is

a great check engine light, but it's just like, okay, well, what is causing the headache? Because the headache could be from a million different things, but you know, that's your body's way of saying, hey, something's going on here. So energy problems, digestive issues, you're not pooping every day. You should be pooping at least once a day. Your poops should not float. They should be earthy brown in color. You shouldn't have to wipe.

multiple times. You shouldn't be leaving skin marks in the bowl. Your skin, if your skin's really dry, that's another symptom of detoxification or fat utilization issues or bile issues, that kind of stuff. the symptoms are endless and it really, that's why I do a really meticulous intake form because I can get the more points of data I have, the better of an educated guess.

that I can make or an informed decision that I can make.

Jessica Lamb (30:26)
Could you give some examples of if someone's having challenges with fertility, what are some of the ways that they, outside of doing, obviously doing all the testing that you're mentioning, how can they start to kind of optimize their gene health while they're in this process?

Jaclyn Downs (30:45)
Clean air, clean water, clean food. So when I was teaching yoga, I would say that we can go weeks without food. We can go days without water, but we can only go a few minutes without air. And so we are breathing all day every day and the air that we're breathing is just increasingly more polluted with, you know.

car exhaust and factories and all kinds of stuff. And especially if you're living in a moldy home, that is super toxic, especially for fertility. And so you wanna make sure that the area of breathing is clean, that the water you're drinking is clean and mineralized. So, you know, I do recommend a high quality filtration, but also if you're like, say for instance, using reverse osmosis, you have to remineralize. And then as far as the food goes,

Buying organic is a great place to start and it doesn't have to be everything. So the foods that you are always buying, like we always have apples in our house at any given time and the apples are on the EWG's dirty dozen list. So they are often sprayed with many different types of pesticides and herbicides. And so the more often that you buy a food, you should try and make sure that it's organic, but also if it's really, really highly sprayed like your berries. So

I don't bring non-organic strawberries into my house. Now if we go to a neighbors or family or picnic or whatever, like okay, you know, I live in this world with my children and as much as I don't want them to eat it, like I just have to have to pick my battles. But yeah, so making sure that you're drinking enough water and that you're buying organic and I would say that you're optimizing your sleep.

Jessica Lamb (32:19)
What would optimized sleep look like for the average person?

Jaclyn Downs (32:23)
I

would say a minimum of seven hours. And if you're waking a lot or you're having a hard time going back to sleep, that is generally a metabolic issue. That could either be a histamine issue or a blood sugar issue, or again, like a glutamate issue if your brain just keeps going.

So investigating why your sleep is not optimal and then also doing all of the sleep hygiene things. So a lot of people still don't know what sleep hygiene is, but that's like optimizing your sleep environment, making sure you're sleeping in a pitch black room is essential for hormone health, making sure that your room's not too hot and trying to go to bed at the same, around the same time every night and trying to not do anything too stimulating or be on screens.

or doing anything too physical soon before bed.

Jessica Lamb (33:08)
Yeah, I think everyone has kind of a hard time understanding what the sleep hygiene and sleep health looks like for them. I know we have a lot of listeners who have young kids or toddlers who are, I feel like, constantly going through sleep changes. How can us moms who are experiencing those kind of challenges adjust our sleeping habits and schedules to be a little bit more optimal?

Jaclyn Downs (33:33)
Try and go to bed earlier. I have two children and I did co-sleep with the first one for way longer. Like, yeah, my body was just like, we're done with this. And then that was really difficult to transition out of. But trying to go to bed earlier and as like the wise people say, sleep when the baby sleeps. So if your kid takes a nap, even if it's not a baby anymore, if you can even just set aside 15, 20 minutes for a power nap, that's great. But getting to bed earlier,

is going to make you feel more rested, even if you're waking up every two hours to nurse a baby or a bad dream or whatever. And then just knowing that this is just a season of your life. And I know it feels like forever and it will be forever, but really it is just a season of your life and it too shall pass.

Jessica Lamb (34:20)
So I think this is a great time to pivot to more nutrition and maybe a little bit on histamine intolerance. But is there anything else gene wise that you think people should know about in terms of optimizing our health?

Jaclyn Downs (34:34)
I think we covered avoiding the toxins, making sure that you're eating a nutrient-dense diet. I actually have a chapter in my book that says eat a nourishing diet, not a healthy diet, because so many things are claimed to be healthy these days, but really our bodies are just nutritionally depleted. And so making sure that you're eating a very nutrient-dense antioxidant-rich diet that is very minimally processed and preferably organic is...

Just a great, great foundation because food is information for your genes.

Jessica Lamb (35:04)
Yeah, so I think everyone, I think that's a great way to pivot and that everyone is like, I'm eating healthy or I'm eating clean. I imagine based on genes what eating healthy or clean looks like should be different for everyone.

Jaclyn Downs (35:19)
Yes.

I mean, there are foundations, right? You want to eat the rainbow because all the different colors have different phytonutrients and different levels. And so you definitely do want to be having a variety of food. Also, because the more often that you eat a food, the more likely your immune system is to react to it. And so that's why the top five most common food sensitivities are the top five most commonly consumed foods, wheat, dairy, corn, soy, and eggs, because they're in everything.

So

the more often they eat it, the more your immune system could start getting triggered by it.

Jessica Lamb (35:53)
So what are some of the, in the clients you see, what are some of the biggest challenges when it comes to nutrition in implementing a nutrition, a customized nutrition plan for their genetic markers or some of the symptoms that they're having in terms of how their genes are operating?

Jaclyn Downs (36:15)
I do see a lot of hidden histamine issues and that seems to be like all the histamine posts that I make on Instagram always get the most reactions and responses because a lot of people think, well, I don't get allergies so I don't have histamine issues, but histamine has its fingers in so many pots in the body.

that it affects your digestion, it affects your circadian rhythm, it affects your body temperature, it affects your cognition, it affects your period. So one of the questions on my intake form is, do you feel worse around ovulation? And so that could be a migraine, that could be fatigue, that could be nausea, because estrogen and histamine feed each other.

And so right before ovulation, right around ovulation, when your estrogen is at its highest during the month is a lot of times when people feel worse. They might feel worse around ovulation than they do around right before their period. So your estrogen peaks right around ovulation and then it raises again about a week before your period. And that's often, you know, with the PMS and coupled with the low progesterone.

So I talk about this woman in my book who had come to me with like nine miscarriages or something like that. She already had a child and she was trying to have another one and she just kept having miscarriages and she, allergies just weren't on our radar because she didn't have any skin issues. She didn't have any hay fever. She didn't have any food allergies.

So we got her periods to be totally regular and we had changed up her exercise routine a bit because she was running a lot. But it wasn't until we looked at her genes that I saw she had a lot of histamine related gene genetic variants. And it just, it never would have occurred to me that histamine was an issue. But once we explored that and we addressed it, then

Things fell into place and she got pregnant and stayed pregnant.

Jessica Lamb (38:09)
That's really interesting. think no one who doesn't have the background that you have would expect that histamine would be a factor in not being able to get pregnant or just being optimal overall. Can you explain a little bit more for the average person who doesn't know anything about histamine, how it interacts with your body, how it presents? think most of us...

no histamine just from an antihistamine when we have some kind of allergic reaction. Could you just share a little bit more about what it is, what it does, how it affects us?

Jaclyn Downs (38:38)
Sure, so histamine is made by the mast cells, which are a type of immune cells. so histamine is released by the mast cells in response to some sort of a trigger. So it's an inflammatory messenger. So if we hit our thumb with a hammer and it gets red and throbby,

part of that is a histamine response. Or if we get stung by a bee and it swells up, that's a histamine response. Or we're breathing in the pollen and we have some immune system imbalance and so our mast cells are going to release histamine to try and...

you know, have you sneeze to get rid of the pollen or, you know, get it out of the eyes with the watery eyes. And so histamine is necessary for certain functions in the body. Like it actually helps us to digest our food and it actually is needed in certain amounts for implantation for pregnancy. But

too much histamine causes inflammation. And like I said, histamine and estrogen feed each other. So that can cause estrogen dominance. Histamine also is considered an excitatory neurotransmitter, which is why antihistamines make you drowsy. So histamine in excess can cause anxiety and stress, and then stress causes more of a histamine issue. So those two are also a vicious cycle.

So yeah, so it's an inflammatory messenger. It's released for the body to try and deal with an insult, but too many people have too high levels of histamine. And that could be from high histamine foods or drinks. That could be from genetic predispositions with creating excess histamine or not being able to clear the histamine from the body. And there are a few other factors as well, but I do want to talk about

how antihistamines don't actually clear the histamine from the body. They just close the cellular receptor, which is basically like putting a piece of tape over the keyhole so you can't put the key in there. The histamine can't get in to activate the...

illicit the allergic response, so it just gets shuffled around elsewhere. So long-term antihistamine use actually can be problematic and it's not doing anything for your histamine levels. So optimizing your histamine metabolism and degradation and also lowering the amount that are coming in if you're sensitive is going to be more beneficial than just relying on antihistamines. And a lot of people

think that they're doing really, really good things by eating sauerkraut, drinking kombucha and bone broth to heal their gut. And these things are extremely high histamine. So I'm not saying that these things are bad, but if you are genetically prone to histamine intolerance or you've been living in mold because mold stimulates the mast cells to release histamine, whether you're living in it currently or it's house you grew up in that had mold, it can still affect you. And so

you're going to not want to do these high histamine gut remedies if you have a predisposition for histamine intolerance.

Jessica Lamb (41:42)
It's so interesting because like we were saying, people think like the healthy versus nutritious that you were talking about. People think the kombucha and the sauerkraut and all of that stuff is the healthiest thing for repairing your gut. But if you have this issue, it's quite the opposite, which I just recently learned more about histamine intolerance. I have a ton of skin issues.

and skin allergies. So one of the groups that I was in, I posted an issue I was having, I was like, what do I do? I don't know how to fix this. And someone was like, why don't you research histamine intolerance? And I had no idea about it. And I'm just now getting into learning more about it. And I'm just shocked at how many, how many symptoms aligned with like what my everyday looks like. And then also, that same thing of things that are like, this is healthy for me, but it's

it's not for my body. Could you share a little bit more about what the signs and symptoms would look like if you did have a histamine intolerance?

Jaclyn Downs (42:37)
Yes, so I want to say that I have a whole entire chapter on histamine and histamine intolerance and what you can do about it in my book. And it's one of my favorite chapters, histamine and oxalates, super intriguing to a lot of people. So as I said, histamine issues aren't always...

going to manifest in hay fever type symptoms, right? Itchy eyes, runny nose, bronchial constriction, hives, rashes, that kind of stuff, or skin flushing. It could be heat and cold intolerance. It could be, like I said, body temperature or gait. It could be migraines. It could be vertigo. It could be nausea. It could be joint pain. It could be really because...

Histamine is an inflammatory messenger. can whatever manifests as inflammation. you know, pains, aches, heat, know, feeling warmth somewhere, any of that really, but also if you have really wonky periods despite having a good diet, right? So we're not going to have somebody that's just eating a standard American diet and really terrible periods. And they're going to say, well, histamine, right?

It could be histamine as a factor, but clean up the diet, right? So I really specialize with the people that are already doing, quote unquote, all the things, right? So my book was written for practitioners, but also the motivated lay person. So they're already, you know, eliminated the plastics from their house and they're eating clean and they're eating nutrient dense and, you know, they're aware of antioxidants and certain like...

or they've tried certain things and so they're still having symptoms. So that's where the genetics can really come into play because they're already doing all of the low-hanging fruit, the foundational things with the sleep and the organic and that kind of stuff. So maybe it's a blood sugar issue, maybe it's a histamine issue, maybe it's an oxalate issue, maybe it's a fatty acid utilization issue because you need to be using your fats in order to make hormones, but also

If you're not properly using your fats, they will oxidize and cause damage to the cell in a process called lipid peroxidation. And so I have chapters on all of these in my book. So it's a lot, you if you don't know what I'm talking about, my book will really break it down in simple terms for you to understand and give you action steps on what to do about it.

Jessica Lamb (44:59)
Yeah, I'm just like soaking. have like a trillion questions I could ask because I am just getting into this area of things that I'm like, like I said, ticking off the boxes of like, okay, this is me. So what are some of the ways that people can begin to, if they are having these symptoms and they're thinking like, hey, this might be me, what are some of the ways that they can begin to start taking note of it and kind of integrate a

Jaclyn Downs (45:03)
you

Jessica Lamb (45:25)
more histamine aware lifestyle.

Jaclyn Downs (45:28)
So again, knowing your genes is going to tell you where in that histamine pathway there might be wrenches. So is it that, so our body makes two histamine degrading enzymes. One is made in the gut and that's called diamine oxidase. And you can actually buy diamine oxidase supplements. I have a favorite. So that's actually going to help your body degrade the histamine that's coming in through your diet primarily, but just that you're being exposed to.

The second is called HNMT, histamine and methyl transferase. This requires methylation. It requires a methyl group in order to degrade histamine. So even if you don't have any HNMT variants, if you don't have enough B vitamins and your methylation pathway is not working, also

informed by how variated your MTHFR may or may not be, then you're not going to be degrading your histamine very well. knowing, and there's also histamine receptor genes. right. And there's four of them. And there's also an HDC gene, which converts your amino acid histidine into histamine.

And so, you maybe you're just, you have variants there and you're converting way too much histidine into histamine. knowing where you're genetically variated can tell you how you want to support that, right? But just for somebody that hasn't run a genetic test yet and is just wanting to know.

What can I do to see if histamine intolerance is a thing or I know it is and I'm just trying to deal with it? Aside from taking some diamine oxidase, I would recommend avoiding aged, cured and fermented foods as like a first because the longer that a food is here,

the more histamine it will accumulate. So I've had clients that have been so sensitive that they had to freeze their leftovers immediately. And you can put them in ice cube trays and portion them out so that way you don't have to thaw the whole entire container. know, fresh beef as opposed to like, you know, or fresh fish as opposed to canned fish. Previously frozen fish is going to be ideal, right? Like you catch it and it's frozen right away.

but fish can be high histamine as well, especially shellfish. And then there's things that block your histamine degrading enzymes. Those are things like black tea and coffee that actually keep your diamine oxidase from being as abundant. But diamine oxidase, the histamine degrading enzyme, is made in our gut.

And so if our gut is compromised, regardless of if we have genes that are variated relating to diamine oxidase, then we're gonna not be degrading our histamine. So making sure that your gut health is investigated and addressed.

Jessica Lamb (48:15)
other advice or tips that you have for people who are wanting to prioritize a healthier lifestyle and kind of getting to the root causes of their issues that they can start today?

prior to hopefully working with you.

Jaclyn Downs (48:29)
Addressing the root causes.

by having all of that low hanging fruit and the foundational things checked off first. So doing the things that you have control over and trying to not get overwhelmed. So I say it's like a step by step approach or this is better than that approach. So you don't need to go and throw out all of your toxic body care products just next time that you need something upgrade to a cleaner version, right? And same with your house cleaning products and your food products in your house. So just always be trying to

get something cleaner or better based on what you can afford and based on what's available to you.

Jessica Lamb (49:04)
Yeah, I think that's great advice because I know myself for one gets super overwhelmed with like, all right, I got to throw everything away and buy all this new stuff. So I think it does get overwhelming when you're trying to get on a healthier lifestyle. But I think that's great advice to, to slowly start seeing where you can replace something a little bit cleaner, um, in your home or products you're using or foods in general.

Jaclyn Downs (49:29)
There's some great apps and websites. One that I really like, it's free. It's a free app called Detox Me. And I think it's made by the Silent Spring Institute, which if you've heard of Rachel Carson, she was integral in helping the earth.

But they make it like a game. And so it has all these different areas as far as like body care and, you know, home environment and that kind of stuff. So I do recommend that for people, especially people that are kind of new to like, okay, where do I start? What do I do? And so each thing that you can check off is kind of like a point and, you know, see how many you can get.

Jessica Lamb (50:04)
Yeah, that sounds great for the fellow ADHD brains like mine to kind of make a game out of it. But yeah, it can be overwhelming. So I feel like something like that would be really helpful to getting on the right path. Anything else you think is important to share?

Jaclyn Downs (50:18)
We covered a lot. And I don't want to overwhelm people either.

Jessica Lamb (50:19)
We did. go ahead.

Yeah. Yeah. We definitely just grazed the surface, but I feel like it was a good amount of information to give the knowledge, but then send people on their way to start doing some research on how they can start implementing. so

Jaclyn Downs (50:34)
Everything we

talked about today is mentioned in my book.

Jessica Lamb (50:37)
Yeah. So where can people find your book?

Jaclyn Downs (50:40)
They can find it at my website, JacquelineDowns.com, J-A-C-L-Y-N, D-O-W-N-S, and it's also on Amazon. But if you buy it through my website, I might get like a couple extra pennies, because I don't make a whole lot of money on the book.

Jessica Lamb (50:48)
Perfect.

Yeah, yeah. OK, every penny counts.

And then where can people find you on social media?

Jaclyn Downs (51:01)
On Instagram, I would say I'm more active than anywhere else, which I'm still not great at social media, but on Instagram, my handle is at functional genomics.

Jessica Lamb (51:11)
Perfect. And then we did talk a bit about what it would look like to work with you, but do want to share a little bit for those who are interested in moving forward?

Jaclyn Downs (51:19)
Sure, so on my website, my homepage, JacquelineDowns.com, I do have options for people to work with me. So you can book a complimentary 15 minute discovery call to get your questions answered, to ask more about genetic testing or one-to-one consultations. So I have clients that have only done genetic testing and I have clients that have not done genetic testing and have only booked one-to-one consultations with me. And then I have clients that have done both as well.

And so it's not like you have to do everything and there's like a certain package deal or anything like that. I have different packages for my genetic testing based on how much information you want. And then my one-to-ones are really custom tailored based on what your goals are, what your diagnoses are, what your symptoms are, what you've tried, what you haven't tried. so...

I'm basically there for you to pick my brain and me to give you some recommendations for as many times as you would like.

Jessica Lamb (52:17)
That's amazing. I love that there's kind of an option for everyone where you, where you'd like to focus. well, you'll definitely be hearing from me and probably a few family members that I know that listen, just cause I think for so long, it's like, I have this issue or that issue. So being able to kind of get that, get all the answers and, start having a tailored plan, I think it's huge. a lot of times we're like, okay, this is the issue and then have no idea what to do next. So,

This sounds amazing.

Jaclyn Downs (52:44)
Often times people think that the issue is the root cause, but really the issue is a symptom. So like, it's my thyroid. Well, your thyroid isn't the cause of anything except for symptoms. So what's causing the thyroid to be out of balance? So you can get, know, just keep asking why and until you find the actual root cause. And the great thing about genetic testing is that

it is one test that you need to do. So the day that you're born, you would have the same results as the day that you die. So it's not like hormone testing or stool testing where you need to do a baseline and follow up and follow up and follow up. It's one test forever. So it's a really great deal. And there was one other thing I was gonna say. your genetics, your genetic test is not

a diagnosis. It can just really inform you and shine a light on what you may want to look further into or why something is happening the way that it is and what to do about it but is not a di...

Functional genomics is not diagnostic. Now you can go to a geneticist and you could get genetic testing for muscular dystrophy and stuff like that and that absolutely can give you a diagnosis. But what I do is functional genomics. So these are genes that you can do something about and support the functioning of. But it is, I don't diagnose, or prescribe anything.

Jessica Lamb (54:04)
Yeah, and I think that's an important distinction because I think we're always looking for an answer. And I think sometimes when people think like, my jeans are just my jeans. think knowing there's something we can do to support whatever jeans we wound up with is definitely more hopeful than some people might feel.

Jaclyn Downs (54:23)
Yeah, a lot of people don't want to get their genetics tested because they're afraid it's going to be doom and gloom. But again, it's not a diagnosis, but I think it's very empowering because you can say, oh, OK, well, this gene's variated. So I'm not having symptoms right now, but I know to look out for this or I know to be proactive about this to make sure that I'm not going to start getting symptoms.

Jessica Lamb (54:45)
Yeah, yeah. Well, this was so great. Again, we just talked about a very little area of genes, but I feel like it was a good amount of information to get people going. And I so appreciate your time.

Jaclyn Downs (54:55)
Thank you so much for inviting me on.