{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":8.34,"endTime":10.77,"body":"Welcome to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":8.34,"endTime":10.77,"body":"perfect bound, a podcast where"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":10.77,"endTime":13.98,"body":"we talk to artists about their"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":10.77,"endTime":13.98,"body":"journey, how they got where they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":13.98,"endTime":17.01,"body":"are, what right and wrong turns"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":13.98,"endTime":17.01,"body":"they made along the way and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":17.01,"endTime":18.06,"body":"where they're heading next."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":29.76,"endTime":33.45,"body":"Matt is a photographic essayist"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":29.76,"endTime":33.45,"body":"working on long form projects"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":33.45,"endTime":36.51,"body":"related to memory, family"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":33.45,"endTime":36.51,"body":"community and the American"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":36.51,"endTime":39.24,"body":"condition. Matt got his"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":36.51,"endTime":39.24,"body":"undergraduate degree in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":39.24,"endTime":42.66,"body":"photojournalism from Ohio"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":39.24,"endTime":42.66,"body":"University, and received his MFA"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":42.66,"endTime":45.54,"body":"in photography from Hartford art"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":42.66,"endTime":45.54,"body":"schools International Limited"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":45.54,"endTime":48.72,"body":"residency program. He now"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":45.54,"endTime":48.72,"body":"teaches full time at the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":48.72,"endTime":51.42,"body":"Corcoran School of the Arts and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":48.72,"endTime":51.42,"body":"Design at George Washington"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":51.42,"endTime":54.69,"body":"University. Matt was one of the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":51.42,"endTime":54.69,"body":"founding members of the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":54.69,"endTime":57.93,"body":"groundbreaking photographic"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":54.69,"endTime":57.93,"body":"collective Lucio in his work has"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":57.93,"endTime":61.44,"body":"received numerous grants and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":57.93,"endTime":61.44,"body":"recognitions. He has exhibited"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":61.44,"endTime":64.59,"body":"his work in 20 solo shows, plus"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":61.44,"endTime":64.59,"body":"many festivals and group"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":64.59,"endTime":68.1,"body":"exhibitions. His prints and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":64.59,"endTime":68.1,"body":"books are held in the permanent"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":68.1,"endTime":71.31,"body":"collections of the Portland Art"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":68.1,"endTime":71.31,"body":"Museum, the Museum of Fine Arts"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":71.31,"endTime":74.94,"body":"Houston, the New York Public"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":71.31,"endTime":74.94,"body":"Library, Chrysler Museum of Art"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":74.94,"endTime":78.54,"body":"and others. And then there are"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":74.94,"endTime":78.54,"body":"his books. He is the author of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":78.54,"endTime":82.77,"body":"four monographs carry me, Ohio."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":78.54,"endTime":82.77,"body":"I love you. I'm leaving sin and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":82.77,"endTime":86.64,"body":"salvation and Baptist town and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":82.77,"endTime":86.64,"body":"the seven cities. He also co"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":86.64,"endTime":89.7,"body":"authored the book days before"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":86.64,"endTime":89.7,"body":"days after with Jared saurez,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":89.76,"endTime":92.67,"body":"and has published several genes"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":89.76,"endTime":92.67,"body":"and small run artists books"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":92.67,"endTime":96.06,"body":"under his own imprint, little"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":92.67,"endTime":96.06,"body":"oak press. Matt lives in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":96.06,"endTime":99.09,"body":"Charlottesville, Virginia with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":96.06,"endTime":99.09,"body":"his wife and two daughters, whom"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":99.09,"endTime":102.24,"body":"you have no doubt seen stunning"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":99.09,"endTime":102.24,"body":"images of woven throughout his"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":102.24,"endTime":102.69,"body":"work."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":104.94,"endTime":107.1,"body":"Matt Eich - Let's get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":104.94,"endTime":107.1,"body":"started!"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":108.87,"endTime":111.27,"body":"When I was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":108.87,"endTime":111.27,"body":"looking through your work,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":111.69,"endTime":114.96,"body":"something that kept coming into"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":111.69,"endTime":114.96,"body":"my mind was how it doesn't seem"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":114.96,"endTime":119.04,"body":"to fit squarely into one genre."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":114.96,"endTime":119.04,"body":"You went to school for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":119.04,"endTime":124.05,"body":"photojournalism. And then your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":119.04,"endTime":124.05,"body":"most recent bio describes you as"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":124.05,"endTime":128.76,"body":"a photographic essayist, which I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":124.05,"endTime":128.76,"body":"love that description. And I was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":128.76,"endTime":131.31,"body":"wondering if it's been"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":128.76,"endTime":131.31,"body":"challenging to find the right"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":131.31,"endTime":134.37,"body":"terminology to describe your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":131.31,"endTime":134.37,"body":"work, or has that sort of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":134.37,"endTime":135.51,"body":"evolved over time."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":136.23,"endTime":138.57,"body":"I mean, it certainly"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":136.23,"endTime":138.57,"body":"evolved. And this is something"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":138.57,"endTime":142.47,"body":"that I've been in conversations"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":138.57,"endTime":142.47,"body":"with students about because I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":142.47,"endTime":146.97,"body":"think there is a certain degree"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":142.47,"endTime":146.97,"body":"of comfort that comes from self"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":146.97,"endTime":150.78,"body":"identifying. As an artist, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":146.97,"endTime":150.78,"body":"know, early on, like having a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":150.78,"endTime":154.14,"body":"title that you can apply to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":150.78,"endTime":154.14,"body":"yourself and your work, I am a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":154.35,"endTime":160.2,"body":"blank. In the more kind of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":154.35,"endTime":160.2,"body":"narrow you can describe your"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":160.2,"endTime":164.67,"body":"practice, the more comforting"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":160.2,"endTime":164.67,"body":"that feels it's like a glove or"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":164.67,"endTime":168.66,"body":"something that as you progress"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":164.67,"endTime":168.66,"body":"through making, then it starts"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":168.66,"endTime":174.6,"body":"to feel more like a box where"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":168.66,"endTime":174.6,"body":"the walls are closing in on you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":174.6,"endTime":179.46,"body":"and your escape that box, right."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":174.6,"endTime":179.46,"body":"And you realize that the labels"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":179.46,"endTime":182.58,"body":"are more useful for curators and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":179.46,"endTime":182.58,"body":"for other people who aren't"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":182.58,"endTime":186.33,"body":"makers who are trying to define"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":182.58,"endTime":186.33,"body":"or describe, but what you're"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":186.93,"endTime":192.78,"body":"generally engaged in is trying"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":186.93,"endTime":192.78,"body":"to deal with things that are"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":192.78,"endTime":195.45,"body":"hard to describe. And that's why"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":192.78,"endTime":195.45,"body":"we photograph instead of write."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":197.01,"endTime":199.11,"body":"You are a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":197.01,"endTime":199.11,"body":"beautiful writer, though, having"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":199.11,"endTime":202.11,"body":"read some of your stuff. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":199.11,"endTime":202.11,"body":"that's not that common."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":202.78,"endTime":204.67,"body":"Well, it's certainly"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":202.78,"endTime":204.67,"body":"something that I've admired. And"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":204.67,"endTime":207.46,"body":"some of my favorite"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":204.67,"endTime":207.46,"body":"photographers, Eugene Richards,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":207.46,"endTime":211.72,"body":"Larry Sultan, Susan Worsham."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":207.46,"endTime":211.72,"body":"Like they're all very strong"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":211.72,"endTime":214.6,"body":"writers. And that's not"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":211.72,"endTime":214.6,"body":"something that I consider to be"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":214.6,"endTime":217.54,"body":"a natural trait for me. So it's"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":214.6,"endTime":217.54,"body":"something that has to come with"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":217.54,"endTime":222.73,"body":"a lot of sweat equity, and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":217.54,"endTime":222.73,"body":"usually some outside eyes and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":222.73,"endTime":227.89,"body":"opinions on things before I feel"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":222.73,"endTime":227.89,"body":"comfortable with them. I feel"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":227.95,"endTime":230.38,"body":"loosely comfortable with"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":227.95,"endTime":230.38,"body":"photographic essayist,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":230.41,"endTime":235.6,"body":"documentary photographer,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":230.41,"endTime":235.6,"body":"photographer. And at one point,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":235.66,"endTime":239.53,"body":"I had to write a statement in"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":235.66,"endTime":239.53,"body":"which I said, \"I'm not an"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":239.53,"endTime":243.25,"body":"artist\". And now I, you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":239.53,"endTime":243.25,"body":"look back on that, like, I was"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":243.25,"endTime":250.09,"body":"naive and very silly. Because"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":243.25,"endTime":250.09,"body":"artists is something that didn't"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":250.09,"endTime":253.09,"body":"feel natural to me for a long"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":250.09,"endTime":253.09,"body":"time. But I've been more"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":253.09,"endTime":256.9,"body":"comfortable with that term, I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":253.09,"endTime":256.9,"body":"guess over the last couple"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":256.9,"endTime":259.87,"body":"years, but I'm uncomfortable"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":256.9,"endTime":259.87,"body":"with the term photojournalist"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":259.87,"endTime":265.6,"body":"because it is too limiting to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":259.87,"endTime":265.6,"body":"encapsulate what I do though. I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":265.6,"endTime":268.27,"body":"studied photojournalism for"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":265.6,"endTime":268.27,"body":"undergrad and I teach"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":268.39,"endTime":273.7,"body":"undergraduate photojournalism"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":268.39,"endTime":273.7,"body":"courses. Now, that's not a good"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":273.7,"endTime":275.83,"body":"definition of my practice at"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":273.7,"endTime":275.83,"body":"this juncture."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":276.17,"endTime":277.94,"body":"So the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":276.17,"endTime":277.94,"body":"photographic essayist can"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":277.94,"endTime":281.3,"body":"incorporate some aspects of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":277.94,"endTime":281.3,"body":"photojournalism but also have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":281.3,"endTime":286.28,"body":"more. It sounds more lyrical,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":281.3,"endTime":286.28,"body":"maybe. So that could encompass"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":286.28,"endTime":288.02,"body":"your fine art work as well."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":288.59,"endTime":293.21,"body":"Yeah. And that was"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":288.59,"endTime":293.21,"body":"something that I think I was. It"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":293.21,"endTime":297.05,"body":"was being signaled to me at a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":293.21,"endTime":297.05,"body":"fairly early stage where I would"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":297.05,"endTime":300.35,"body":"take pictures to a magazine and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":297.05,"endTime":300.35,"body":"they'd say, \"Oh, this looks they"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":300.35,"endTime":302.51,"body":"might belong in a gallery\", and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":300.35,"endTime":302.51,"body":"then you take them to the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":302.51,"endTime":304.88,"body":"gallery and they say, \"Oh, this"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":302.51,"endTime":304.88,"body":"looks like they might belong in"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":304.88,"endTime":307.46,"body":"a magazine\", and then you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":304.88,"endTime":307.46,"body":"realize, like, nobody thinks"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":307.46,"endTime":310.31,"body":"your work belongs there. So it's"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":307.46,"endTime":310.31,"body":"kind of in this orphan"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":310.55,"endTime":311.33,"body":"existence. Right?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":311.72,"endTime":313.1,"body":"Right. Middle"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":311.72,"endTime":313.1,"body":"ground."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":313.44,"endTime":317.1,"body":"Yeah. Having to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":313.44,"endTime":317.1,"body":"become okay with that. And I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":317.1,"endTime":323.43,"body":"think, again, there was history"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":317.1,"endTime":323.43,"body":"of, you know, really solid"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":323.43,"endTime":328.68,"body":"demarcation lines between art,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":323.43,"endTime":328.68,"body":"commercial photojournalism, and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":328.89,"endTime":332.88,"body":"definitely in the last 10 years."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":328.89,"endTime":332.88,"body":"But even more in the last two to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":332.88,"endTime":335.79,"body":"five, we've seen those"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":332.88,"endTime":335.79,"body":"boundaries and barriers"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":335.79,"endTime":340.02,"body":"collapsing in the ways that"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":335.79,"endTime":340.02,"body":"places commissioned work, where"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":340.29,"endTime":343.5,"body":"commercial outfits are looking"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":340.29,"endTime":343.5,"body":"for artists to bring their"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":343.5,"endTime":348.48,"body":"unique vision to a brand and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":343.5,"endTime":348.48,"body":"editorial outlets are also"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":348.48,"endTime":352.98,"body":"looking for kind of new voices"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":348.48,"endTime":352.98,"body":"and visions that can communicate"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":352.98,"endTime":355.68,"body":"about some of the more"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":352.98,"endTime":355.68,"body":"complicated stories that we've"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":355.92,"endTime":361.62,"body":"got going on. Yeah, I don't"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":355.92,"endTime":361.62,"body":"know, it's hard to figure out"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":361.62,"endTime":365.04,"body":"where your work belongs these"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":361.62,"endTime":365.04,"body":"days. But I guess, become less"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":365.04,"endTime":369.24,"body":"and less interested in worrying"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":365.04,"endTime":369.24,"body":"over that and just trying to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":369.24,"endTime":373.41,"body":"focus on making and figure that"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":369.24,"endTime":373.41,"body":"somebody else will slap a label"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":373.41,"endTime":375.81,"body":"on it and tell me where it"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":373.41,"endTime":375.81,"body":"belongs. Because that's always"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":375.81,"endTime":379.14,"body":"been the way that it goes, You"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":375.81,"endTime":379.14,"body":"know, I can't really control any"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":379.14,"endTime":382.83,"body":"of that. Okay, continuing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":382.83,"endTime":385.53,"body":"along the lines"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":382.83,"endTime":385.53,"body":"of how you speak about your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":385.53,"endTime":389.85,"body":"work. In a 2014 interview, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":385.53,"endTime":389.85,"body":"were asked to describe your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":389.85,"endTime":393.75,"body":"photography in three words, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":389.85,"endTime":393.75,"body":"you said spontaneous emotional"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":393.75,"endTime":396.9,"body":"cacophony. Does that description"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":393.75,"endTime":396.9,"body":"still apply?"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":396.0,"endTime":402.69,"body":"I mean, that that"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":396.0,"endTime":402.69,"body":"does seem like an \"of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":402.69,"endTime":408.33,"body":"moment\" response. The words are"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":402.69,"endTime":408.33,"body":"still descriptive of the way in"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":408.33,"endTime":415.08,"body":"which I work. I try to respond"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":408.33,"endTime":415.08,"body":"to things kind of in the moment,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":415.14,"endTime":421.38,"body":"instead of preconceiving when"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":415.14,"endTime":421.38,"body":"I'm going to make. But I've been"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":421.38,"endTime":425.61,"body":"trying to slow down and be a bit"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":421.38,"endTime":425.61,"body":"more thoughtful and methodical"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":425.61,"endTime":429.93,"body":"in the way that I work of late."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":425.61,"endTime":429.93,"body":"So I feel like I am shifting."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":431.67,"endTime":440.19,"body":"Evolving. Yeah, I'm trying to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":431.67,"endTime":440.19,"body":"find more peace and tranquility"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":440.19,"endTime":445.71,"body":"and less cacophony. But, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":440.19,"endTime":445.71,"body":"it's certainly, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":445.71,"endTime":450.66,"body":"thread of, of life in America,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":445.71,"endTime":450.66,"body":"of life as a parent trying to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":451.29,"endTime":454.44,"body":"juggle the needs of children and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":451.29,"endTime":454.44,"body":"the needs of art making,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":454.77,"endTime":457.05,"body":"cacophony is constantly part of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":454.77,"endTime":457.05,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":457.95,"endTime":461.37,"body":"Well, cacophony"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":457.95,"endTime":461.37,"body":"is a pretty good intro into my"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":461.37,"endTime":466.05,"body":"next question... You were really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":461.37,"endTime":466.05,"body":"into music growing up, and you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":466.08,"endTime":471.09,"body":"played in a few bands with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":466.08,"endTime":471.09,"body":"musicians in high school. And I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":471.09,"endTime":474.99,"body":"was wondering if that band"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":471.09,"endTime":474.99,"body":"mentality where you were with a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":474.99,"endTime":478.53,"body":"group of like-minded people, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":474.99,"endTime":478.53,"body":"you were all working together"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":478.53,"endTime":482.34,"body":"towards a shared goal, if that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":478.53,"endTime":482.34,"body":"played into your desire to form"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":482.34,"endTime":483.99,"body":"and be a part of LUCEO."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":485.4,"endTime":489.45,"body":"Definitely, it felt"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":485.4,"endTime":489.45,"body":"like a very natural kind of way"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":489.45,"endTime":496.5,"body":"of pooling resources and energy."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":489.45,"endTime":496.5,"body":"And I still think about that"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":496.5,"endTime":502.02,"body":"feeling that occurs when a group"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":496.5,"endTime":502.02,"body":"of artists, but specifically,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":502.02,"endTime":505.95,"body":"musicians are getting together"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":502.02,"endTime":505.95,"body":"and in this kind of freeform"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":505.95,"endTime":509.64,"body":"jam, sort of way, start making"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":505.95,"endTime":509.64,"body":"something together. And when you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":509.67,"endTime":512.91,"body":"collectively realize like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":509.67,"endTime":512.91,"body":"shit, we're doing it, like"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":512.91,"endTime":516.27,"body":"there's something happening,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":512.91,"endTime":516.27,"body":"like that feeling is really hard"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":516.27,"endTime":521.1,"body":"to replicate in any other"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":516.27,"endTime":521.1,"body":"context. And the idea that, of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":521.1,"endTime":524.58,"body":"course, like multiple parts come"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":521.1,"endTime":524.58,"body":"together to create something"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":524.97,"endTime":528.87,"body":"greater something can't be"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":524.97,"endTime":528.87,"body":"achieved on an individual kind"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":528.87,"endTime":534.33,"body":"of level. So it felt really"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":528.87,"endTime":534.33,"body":"natural, though, the irony is"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":534.33,"endTime":536.94,"body":"like, at the end of high school,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":534.33,"endTime":536.94,"body":"when I felt like I had to choose"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":536.94,"endTime":540.27,"body":"between music and photography,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":536.94,"endTime":540.27,"body":"one of the things that drove me"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":540.27,"endTime":545.49,"body":"to photography was feeling a bit"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":540.27,"endTime":545.49,"body":"burned out on the band drama,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":545.52,"endTime":548.67,"body":"and, you know, like, trying to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":545.52,"endTime":548.67,"body":"manage all of these different"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":548.7,"endTime":553.2,"body":"egos, and personalities and kind"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":548.7,"endTime":553.2,"body":"of individual wants and needs,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":554.2,"endTime":555.73,"body":"\"So I'll work"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":554.2,"endTime":555.73,"body":"with artists because...\""},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":556.45,"endTime":558.4,"body":"haha -right! That'll"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":556.45,"endTime":558.4,"body":"be easier."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":559.93,"endTime":560.62,"body":"\"they're stable\""},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":560.93,"endTime":564.89,"body":"Right? So in a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":560.93,"endTime":564.89,"body":"ways, LUCEO was, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":564.92,"endTime":570.05,"body":"photographic band, you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":564.92,"endTime":570.05,"body":"individual image makers that"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":570.05,"endTime":574.76,"body":"came together, seeking some sort"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":570.05,"endTime":574.76,"body":"of collective goal and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":574.79,"endTime":579.8,"body":"communication. And at its best"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":574.79,"endTime":579.8,"body":"it was that, you know, at its"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":579.8,"endTime":582.92,"body":"worst, it was probably some of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":579.8,"endTime":582.92,"body":"the same things that tripped up"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":582.95,"endTime":586.79,"body":"a lot of bands, you know, where"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":582.95,"endTime":586.79,"body":"individual wants or needs may"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":586.79,"endTime":591.59,"body":"have gotten in the way of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":586.79,"endTime":591.59,"body":"greater group's goal or mission,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":591.59,"endTime":595.67,"body":"but I'm still really grateful"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":591.59,"endTime":595.67,"body":"for all of those individuals and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":595.67,"endTime":598.85,"body":"the things that we were able to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":595.67,"endTime":598.85,"body":"accomplish as a group and still"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":598.88,"endTime":601.43,"body":"miss that sense of community and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":598.88,"endTime":601.43,"body":"camaraderie."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":601.73,"endTime":602.63,"body":"I can imagine."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":603.62,"endTime":607.73,"body":"Switching gears to your long"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":603.62,"endTime":607.73,"body":"term projects. The Invisible"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":607.73,"endTime":613.43,"body":"Yoke was conceived as four"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":607.73,"endTime":613.43,"body":"volumes. Carry Me Ohio, Sin and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":613.43,"endTime":616.82,"body":"Salvation in Baptist Town, The"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":613.43,"endTime":616.82,"body":"Seven Cities and the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":616.88,"endTime":620.96,"body":"yet-to-be-published We the Free."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":616.88,"endTime":620.96,"body":"So that's four distinct"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":621.32,"endTime":625.16,"body":"monographs you've been working"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":621.32,"endTime":625.16,"body":"on over the course of what,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":625.16,"endTime":627.08,"body":"four, five years?"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":628.4,"endTime":632.42,"body":"Yeah. So in terms of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":628.4,"endTime":632.42,"body":"the publishing of these books,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":632.42,"endTime":636.74,"body":"yeah, that that'll play out"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":632.42,"endTime":636.74,"body":"between 16 and 21. If everything"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":637.07,"endTime":640.13,"body":"stays on track for this year,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":637.07,"endTime":640.13,"body":"you know, but the work itself"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":640.13,"endTime":645.23,"body":"was made over a period of 14-15"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":640.13,"endTime":645.23,"body":"years, and varying depending on"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":645.23,"endTime":650.36,"body":"the project. So currently, Ohio"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":645.23,"endTime":650.36,"body":"is 10, Sin and Salvation, seven,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":650.39,"endTime":655.91,"body":"The Seven Cities, 14 years. And"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":650.39,"endTime":655.91,"body":"yeah, this final book will"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":655.91,"endTime":660.38,"body":"probably be about 14 years kind"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":655.91,"endTime":660.38,"body":"of encapsulated in the covers."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":661.53,"endTime":663.96,"body":"So even though"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":661.53,"endTime":663.96,"body":"you've been turning out"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":664.5,"endTime":669.09,"body":"monographs over a relatively"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":664.5,"endTime":669.09,"body":"short amount of time, you've"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":669.09,"endTime":674.13,"body":"also created new work and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":669.09,"endTime":674.13,"body":"published more books. I Love"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":674.13,"endTime":676.77,"body":"You, I'm Leaving, the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":674.13,"endTime":676.77,"body":"collaborative project with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":676.77,"endTime":680.31,"body":"Zatara Press. And you even"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":676.77,"endTime":680.31,"body":"started your own imprint, Little"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":680.31,"endTime":684.57,"body":"Oak Press. So do you find that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":680.31,"endTime":684.57,"body":"you're developing projects kind"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":684.57,"endTime":688.59,"body":"of always in the background,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":684.57,"endTime":688.59,"body":"almost subconsciously. And then"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":688.86,"endTime":691.83,"body":"they get to a certain inflection"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":688.86,"endTime":691.83,"body":"point where you realize, oh,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":691.83,"endTime":696.21,"body":"I've really got something here?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":691.83,"endTime":696.21,"body":"Or do they each start with an"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":696.21,"endTime":700.02,"body":"idea that has a specific"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":696.21,"endTime":700.02,"body":"intentionality and set of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":700.02,"endTime":700.92,"body":"parameters?"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":701.26,"endTime":707.38,"body":"Yeah, it's, it's a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":701.26,"endTime":707.38,"body":"lot more after the fact, and in"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":707.38,"endTime":714.94,"body":"my processes, mostly intuitive,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":707.38,"endTime":714.94,"body":"and pretty slow. You know, a lot"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":714.94,"endTime":718.15,"body":"of times I'm making something"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":714.94,"endTime":718.15,"body":"and I, I never know what I'm"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":718.15,"endTime":723.13,"body":"making when I'm making it. Like,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":718.15,"endTime":723.13,"body":"let's just be clear, I don't"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":723.13,"endTime":726.79,"body":"really go outside. This is the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":723.13,"endTime":726.79,"body":"picture I'm going to make today,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":726.79,"endTime":729.58,"body":"let me go fulfill this"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":726.79,"endTime":729.58,"body":"expectation, I'm looking for a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":729.58,"endTime":733.63,"body":"surprise and serendipity and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":729.58,"endTime":733.63,"body":"collecting things into these"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":733.63,"endTime":738.64,"body":"piles and kind of sorting them a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":733.63,"endTime":738.64,"body":"little bit here and there. And"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":738.64,"endTime":743.08,"body":"then, you know, in constant"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":738.64,"endTime":743.08,"body":"communication with peers, and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":743.35,"endTime":745.93,"body":"colleagues that are helping me"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":743.35,"endTime":745.93,"body":"kind of sift through these"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":745.93,"endTime":750.76,"body":"piles, so that some things rise"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":745.93,"endTime":750.76,"body":"to the surface. And I'm just"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":750.76,"endTime":754.33,"body":"trying to make on a regular"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":750.76,"endTime":754.33,"body":"basis. So a lot of folks, the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":754.33,"endTime":757.84,"body":"pandemic has majorly tripped me"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":754.33,"endTime":757.84,"body":"up in that regard, like I've"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":757.84,"endTime":761.98,"body":"continued making in a limited"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":757.84,"endTime":761.98,"body":"capacity, but it wasn't in any"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":761.98,"endTime":766.39,"body":"means on the scale or scope that"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":761.98,"endTime":766.39,"body":"I hoped for in the last year."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":767.23,"endTime":770.74,"body":"That's the way it goes. So if we"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":767.23,"endTime":770.74,"body":"jump back to the beginning, like"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":770.74,"endTime":775.24,"body":"Carry Me, Ohio started as a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":770.74,"endTime":775.24,"body":"series of kind of individual"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":775.24,"endTime":778.84,"body":"stories about like one family"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":775.24,"endTime":778.84,"body":"here and one family there and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":778.84,"endTime":781.9,"body":"one community here and one"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":778.84,"endTime":781.9,"body":"community there. And then one of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":781.9,"endTime":787.75,"body":"my friends and classmates was in"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":781.9,"endTime":787.75,"body":"the editing room and our house,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":787.75,"endTime":789.91,"body":"I shared a house with a couple"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":787.75,"endTime":789.91,"body":"other photographers in"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":789.91,"endTime":794.92,"body":"undergrad. And we had one room"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":789.91,"endTime":794.92,"body":"kind of dedicated to working on"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":794.92,"endTime":799.6,"body":"editing projects. And he was"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":794.92,"endTime":799.6,"body":"like, hey, this song, Carry Me"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":799.6,"endTime":804.16,"body":"Ohio by Sun Kill Moon, give it a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":799.6,"endTime":804.16,"body":"listen, while you're looking at"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":804.16,"endTime":806.41,"body":"these pictures, look at them"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":804.16,"endTime":806.41,"body":"together think about how they"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":806.41,"endTime":810.04,"body":"function as a unit. And I was"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":806.41,"endTime":810.04,"body":"familiar with the song. But I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":810.04,"endTime":812.77,"body":"hadn't really thought about,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":810.04,"endTime":812.77,"body":"again, kind of knocking down"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":812.77,"endTime":816.13,"body":"these mental barriers between"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":812.77,"endTime":816.13,"body":"the different bodies of work,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":816.49,"endTime":820.66,"body":"and then viewing them as one. So"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":816.49,"endTime":820.66,"body":"I did that. And that was an aha"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":820.66,"endTime":824.35,"body":"moment. And, you know, a few"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":820.66,"endTime":824.35,"body":"years later, we moved to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":824.35,"endTime":828.61,"body":"Virginia and I started making"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":824.35,"endTime":828.61,"body":"what started as an assignment in"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":828.61,"endTime":831.97,"body":"Mississippi and then coming back"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":828.61,"endTime":831.97,"body":"and kind of living with those"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":831.97,"endTime":834.64,"body":"pictures and look at them. And I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":831.97,"endTime":834.64,"body":"was there's some parallels"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":834.64,"endTime":837.76,"body":"between what I was making in"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":834.64,"endTime":837.76,"body":"Ohio and what I'm making in"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":837.76,"endTime":841.75,"body":"Mississippi. What's that about?"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":837.76,"endTime":841.75,"body":"Maybe part of it is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":841.75,"endTime":843.76,"body":"the nature of the assignment."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":841.75,"endTime":843.76,"body":"But I think it's more a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":843.76,"endTime":846.76,"body":"reflection of what I'm drawn to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":843.76,"endTime":846.76,"body":"as an individual. What does that"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":846.76,"endTime":849.55,"body":"say about me? And my"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":846.76,"endTime":849.55,"body":"subconscious? Where is this"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":849.55,"endTime":852.49,"body":"coming from? And so it's this"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":849.55,"endTime":852.49,"body":"process of kind of digging"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":852.49,"endTime":855.61,"body":"deeper, deeper, deeper into"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":852.49,"endTime":855.61,"body":"yourself and into your psyche,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":855.97,"endTime":859.33,"body":"and asking questions that"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":855.97,"endTime":859.33,"body":"typically don't have answers and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":859.33,"endTime":862.51,"body":"going back out with a camera and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":859.33,"endTime":862.51,"body":"asking more questions and not"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":862.51,"endTime":866.71,"body":"hoping to really achieve any"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":862.51,"endTime":866.71,"body":"resolution to them. But one of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":866.71,"endTime":870.52,"body":"the things was kind of driven"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":866.71,"endTime":870.52,"body":"into us in grad school is the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":870.52,"endTime":873.52,"body":"pictures are smarter than you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":870.52,"endTime":873.52,"body":"are. Listen to them. They'll"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":873.52,"endTime":874.84,"body":"tell you where to go."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":875.549,"endTime":878.339,"body":"So you're out"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":875.549,"endTime":878.339,"body":"you're making pictures, then"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":878.339,"endTime":881.159,"body":"you're coming back and looking"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":878.339,"endTime":881.159,"body":"at them and realizing that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":881.159,"endTime":886.019,"body":"they're telling you almost what"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":881.159,"endTime":886.019,"body":"you're curious about, which then"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":886.019,"endTime":890.969,"body":"piques your curiosity more to go"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":886.019,"endTime":890.969,"body":"back and continue to dig into"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":890.969,"endTime":891.899,"body":"that question."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":892.41,"endTime":895.92,"body":"And eventually you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":892.41,"endTime":895.92,"body":"have to find a house or a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":895.92,"endTime":902.82,"body":"structure to put the pictures"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":895.92,"endTime":902.82,"body":"in, right, because they're, I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":902.82,"endTime":909.75,"body":"don't know, moldable? Pictures"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":902.82,"endTime":909.75,"body":"can be kind of like morphed into"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":909.75,"endTime":912.96,"body":"different shapes and forms"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":909.75,"endTime":912.96,"body":"depending on the context or the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":912.96,"endTime":914.79,"body":"structure that you provide for"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":912.96,"endTime":914.79,"body":"them."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":916.11,"endTime":919.56,"body":"You've published"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":916.11,"endTime":919.56,"body":"with different publishers, The"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":919.59,"endTime":923.16,"body":"Invisible Yoke series is with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":919.59,"endTime":923.16,"body":"Sturm and Dram, and then I Love"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":923.16,"endTime":927.84,"body":"You, I'm Leaving with Ceiba"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":923.16,"endTime":927.84,"body":"Editions. You did a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":927.9,"endTime":930.66,"body":"collaborative book with Zatara"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":927.9,"endTime":930.66,"body":"Press, and then you have your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":930.66,"endTime":936.09,"body":"own imprint, Little Oak Press."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":930.66,"endTime":936.09,"body":"So how do you decide which book"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":936.15,"endTime":938.64,"body":"is right for which publisher?"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":940.07,"endTime":941.63,"body":"That's a good"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":940.07,"endTime":941.63,"body":"question. And something I've"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":941.63,"endTime":947.12,"body":"been kind of playing by ear as"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":941.63,"endTime":947.12,"body":"we go. I can't say that I've"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":947.48,"endTime":951.05,"body":"planned out much of anything"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":947.48,"endTime":951.05,"body":"when it comes to publishing, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":951.05,"endTime":956.48,"body":"know, far in advance. So like, I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":951.05,"endTime":956.48,"body":"am coming to the end of a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":957.17,"endTime":961.13,"body":"notebook that I've been keeping"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":957.17,"endTime":961.13,"body":"for the last 12 years. I think I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":961.13,"endTime":965.84,"body":"started in 2012, shortly before"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":961.13,"endTime":965.84,"body":"my daughter was born. And as I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":965.84,"endTime":970.13,"body":"flipped back, I found a note"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":965.84,"endTime":970.13,"body":"from a portfolio review with an"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":970.13,"endTime":972.89,"body":"Aperture editor that happened,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":970.13,"endTime":972.89,"body":"you know, eight years ago at"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":972.89,"endTime":977.75,"body":"this point, in which I was"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":972.89,"endTime":977.75,"body":"presenting this idea for three"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":977.75,"endTime":980.9,"body":"books at the time, it was before"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":977.75,"endTime":980.9,"body":"I realized The Invisible Yoke"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":980.9,"endTime":986.18,"body":"was going to be four books. And"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":980.9,"endTime":986.18,"body":"the feedback from this editor"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":986.18,"endTime":989.24,"body":"was that a box set of books"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":986.18,"endTime":989.24,"body":"would be too artsy and too"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":989.24,"endTime":995.09,"body":"fussy. I was like, Okay, cool."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":989.24,"endTime":995.09,"body":"So I'm going to, I did this"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":995.09,"endTime":998.93,"body":"residency at Lightwork in 2013."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":995.09,"endTime":998.93,"body":"So the year after that, and I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":998.93,"endTime":1002.26,"body":"decided to bring all four"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":998.93,"endTime":1002.26,"body":"chapters together under one"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1002.26,"endTime":1006.61,"body":"roof, and created this maquette,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1002.26,"endTime":1006.61,"body":"which I self-published,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1007.33,"endTime":1010.84,"body":"Your first Carry"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1007.33,"endTime":1010.84,"body":"Me Ohio was self published?"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1011.2,"endTime":1015.16,"body":"Yes. And that was in"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1011.2,"endTime":1015.16,"body":"2010, using my wife's student"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1015.16,"endTime":1020.65,"body":"loan money so that we could make"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1015.16,"endTime":1020.65,"body":"a small catalog to accompany the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1020.65,"endTime":1023.68,"body":"first solo show of that work,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1020.65,"endTime":1023.68,"body":"which was actually my first solo"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1023.68,"endTime":1029.41,"body":"show, It was in 2010. And then"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1023.68,"endTime":1029.41,"body":"those sold pretty quickly, and I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1029.77,"endTime":1036.25,"body":"kept a handful of copies to try"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1029.77,"endTime":1036.25,"body":"and place in libraries. And we"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1036.34,"endTime":1042.43,"body":"adapted that to be a kind of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1036.34,"endTime":1042.43,"body":"Blurb formatted book, added few"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1042.43,"endTime":1045.28,"body":"new photographs that I've made"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1042.43,"endTime":1045.28,"body":"since the first edition was"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1045.31,"endTime":1049.15,"body":"published, and then entered that"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1045.31,"endTime":1049.15,"body":"in the Blurb photography book"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1049.27,"endTime":1055.81,"body":"competition. Again, maybe around"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1049.27,"endTime":1055.81,"body":"2011, something like that. 2012."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1055.93,"endTime":1060.19,"body":"Okay. And I guess one of those"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1055.93,"endTime":1060.19,"body":"copies ended up in Arcana books,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1060.19,"endTime":1064.3,"body":"which is a art book store that"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1060.19,"endTime":1064.3,"body":"specializes in photo books"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1064.3,"endTime":1070.33,"body":"that's in Culver City outside of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1064.3,"endTime":1070.33,"body":"LA. And when I was in grad"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1070.33,"endTime":1075.64,"body":"school, and maybe late 2014, I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1070.33,"endTime":1075.64,"body":"got an email from Reto Caduff"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1075.64,"endTime":1079.24,"body":"from Sturm and Drang saying,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1075.64,"endTime":1079.24,"body":"\"Hey, I found this blurb book in"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1079.24,"endTime":1082.57,"body":"a bookstore in California and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1079.24,"endTime":1082.57,"body":"I'd like to publish it.\""},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1082.75,"endTime":1084.46,"body":"Oh my gosh, that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1082.75,"endTime":1084.46,"body":"is a dream."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1085.39,"endTime":1087.52,"body":"It was a little"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1085.39,"endTime":1087.52,"body":"weird. And, you know, like,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1088.3,"endTime":1092.89,"body":"being new to this whole thing at"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1088.3,"endTime":1092.89,"body":"the time, a distinct memory of,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1094.09,"endTime":1099.13,"body":"you know, I was not really ready"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1094.09,"endTime":1099.13,"body":"to jump into action with it, and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1099.88,"endTime":1105.13,"body":"probably looking for reasons to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1099.88,"endTime":1105.13,"body":"not do it. And so, as a test,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1105.58,"endTime":1108.43,"body":"you know, I was like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1105.58,"endTime":1108.43,"body":"I'm glad you're interested in"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1108.43,"endTime":1111.16,"body":"publishing this work. I don't"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1108.43,"endTime":1111.16,"body":"want to really work with anybody"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1111.16,"endTime":1114.22,"body":"that I haven't met in person."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1111.16,"endTime":1114.22,"body":"And I'm really thinking about"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1114.22,"endTime":1117.76,"body":"this as a four part series of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1114.22,"endTime":1117.76,"body":"monographs. What do you think?"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1118.21,"endTime":1121.6,"body":"And he was like, well, I live in"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1118.21,"endTime":1121.6,"body":"Switzerland, but I can meet you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1121.6,"endTime":1125.89,"body":"in Berlin when you're there for"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1121.6,"endTime":1125.89,"body":"grad school. And I'm into the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1125.89,"endTime":1129.76,"body":"idea of four books. And I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1125.89,"endTime":1129.76,"body":"thought, Okay, well, like what"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1129.76,"endTime":1133.63,"body":"what other roadblocks can I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1129.76,"endTime":1133.63,"body":"throw in now? And I had this"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1133.63,"endTime":1137.41,"body":"conversation with a professor in"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1133.63,"endTime":1137.41,"body":"a bar in Berlin, and I was like,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1137.41,"endTime":1142.0,"body":"should I do this? Should I not?"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1137.41,"endTime":1142.0,"body":"And he said, grab the unicorn by"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1142.0,"endTime":1147.79,"body":"the horns and ride it into the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1142.0,"endTime":1147.79,"body":"sunset. And I was like, Okay, I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1147.79,"endTime":1149.38,"body":"guess that's what I'll do then."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1151.45,"endTime":1152.23,"body":"Phenomenal."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1152.83,"endTime":1155.44,"body":"So I've been working"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1152.83,"endTime":1155.44,"body":"with Reto ever since and I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1155.47,"endTime":1160.39,"body":"really appreciate his support"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1155.47,"endTime":1160.39,"body":"and understanding of this"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1160.39,"endTime":1162.49,"body":"process. He's been really"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1160.39,"endTime":1162.49,"body":"patient and a great"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1162.49,"endTime":1167.77,"body":"collaborator. And then, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1162.49,"endTime":1167.77,"body":"know, I kind of entered grad"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1167.77,"endTime":1170.2,"body":"school thinking that most of my"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1167.77,"endTime":1170.2,"body":"energy was going to be focused"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1170.2,"endTime":1174.94,"body":"on this series of books. But as"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1170.2,"endTime":1174.94,"body":"we discussed a little bit kind"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1174.94,"endTime":1177.85,"body":"of shifted into making a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1174.94,"endTime":1177.85,"body":"different kind of work. So you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1177.85,"endTime":1181.75,"body":"know, I came in making work"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1177.85,"endTime":1181.75,"body":"about America and other people's"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1181.75,"endTime":1186.46,"body":"lives and communities and kind"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1181.75,"endTime":1186.46,"body":"of pushed away from that towards"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1186.46,"endTime":1192.28,"body":"making more introspective family"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1186.46,"endTime":1192.28,"body":"photographs and we were required"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1192.28,"endTime":1196.18,"body":"to make a book maquette. At"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1192.28,"endTime":1196.18,"body":"least for graduation. I think we"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1196.18,"endTime":1198.88,"body":"had to have a minimum of two or"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1196.18,"endTime":1198.88,"body":"three copies."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1199.57,"endTime":1203.53,"body":"The Hartford"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1199.57,"endTime":1203.53,"body":"program is very book focused,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1203.71,"endTime":1204.13,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1204.16,"endTime":1206.23,"body":"Yeah. And that was"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1204.16,"endTime":1206.23,"body":"one of the things that drew me"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1206.23,"endTime":1209.38,"body":"to it, because that is still"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1206.23,"endTime":1209.38,"body":"probably my favorite form for"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1209.38,"endTime":1213.28,"body":"expressing myself"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1209.38,"endTime":1213.28,"body":"photographically. And certainly"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1213.28,"endTime":1216.7,"body":"one of the greatest educational"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1213.28,"endTime":1216.7,"body":"tools that I've encountered over"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1216.7,"endTime":1219.46,"body":"the years is just collecting"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1216.7,"endTime":1219.46,"body":"other people's books and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1219.46,"endTime":1225.22,"body":"studying those. So I was excited"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1219.46,"endTime":1225.22,"body":"about that prospect in a bit, I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1225.49,"endTime":1228.31,"body":"try and find people that I like"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1225.49,"endTime":1228.31,"body":"to work with, and then work with"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1228.31,"endTime":1232.12,"body":"them a lot. So I brought the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1228.31,"endTime":1232.12,"body":"grad work to Deb Davis, the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1232.12,"endTime":1236.47,"body":"designer that I worked with on"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1232.12,"endTime":1236.47,"body":"the Carry Me Ohio limited"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1236.47,"endTime":1240.13,"body":"edition, and on The Invisible"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1236.47,"endTime":1240.13,"body":"Yoke maquette. And Deb was"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1240.13,"endTime":1244.87,"body":"really busy at the time. And she"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1240.13,"endTime":1244.87,"body":"suggested that I hit up, Eva"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1244.87,"endTime":1250.57,"body":"Marie Coons, who is the founder"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1244.87,"endTime":1250.57,"body":"of Ceiba Editions and so I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1250.57,"endTime":1258.01,"body":"started talking with them. And"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1250.57,"endTime":1258.01,"body":"essentially, it came down to I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1258.01,"endTime":1263.14,"body":"don't think I could afford to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1258.01,"endTime":1263.14,"body":"pay them, you know, as as a,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1263.53,"endTime":1267.37,"body":"like, a one-off book, you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1263.53,"endTime":1267.37,"body":"to make something small. So the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1267.37,"endTime":1271.66,"body":"deal that I made with Ava was"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1267.37,"endTime":1271.66,"body":"that she would help me making a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1271.66,"endTime":1275.26,"body":"maquette for graduation. And I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1271.66,"endTime":1275.26,"body":"would allow them to publish the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1275.26,"endTime":1279.34,"body":"work in a kind of small addition"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1275.26,"endTime":1279.34,"body":"after the work was done, which"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1279.34,"endTime":1282.85,"body":"was good because I had these"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1279.34,"endTime":1282.85,"body":"grand ideas of like, I'm going"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1282.85,"endTime":1286.42,"body":"to make 50 copies of the book"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1282.85,"endTime":1286.42,"body":"for grad school. But then as I'm"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1286.42,"endTime":1289.12,"body":"getting closer to the finish"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1286.42,"endTime":1289.12,"body":"line, I realized that I was just"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1289.12,"endTime":1292.87,"body":"beginning to hit my photographic"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1289.12,"endTime":1292.87,"body":"stride. And I still didn't have"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1293.68,"endTime":1297.34,"body":"the framework that I wanted for"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1293.68,"endTime":1297.34,"body":"it. And so to try"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1297.34,"endTime":1299.53,"body":"In this project,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1297.34,"endTime":1299.53,"body":"specifically, you mean?"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1299.56,"endTime":1302.05,"body":"Yeah, the I Love You,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1299.56,"endTime":1302.05,"body":"I'm Leaving work, like I hadn't"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1302.05,"endTime":1304.6,"body":"arrived at that title yet. And I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1302.05,"endTime":1304.6,"body":"still wasn't happy with the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1304.6,"endTime":1307.42,"body":"title that I had. It's funny,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1304.6,"endTime":1307.42,"body":"that title actually kind of came"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1307.42,"endTime":1310.87,"body":"from me writing a letter to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1307.42,"endTime":1310.87,"body":"photography or about"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1310.87,"endTime":1317.23,"body":"photography, being like, \"Fuck"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1310.87,"endTime":1317.23,"body":"you, I'm out\". I was in grad"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1317.23,"endTime":1322.03,"body":"school and really disillusioned"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1317.23,"endTime":1322.03,"body":"with the medium at that moment,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1322.03,"endTime":1325.39,"body":"and I'm finding myself in a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1322.03,"endTime":1325.39,"body":"similar place right now, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1325.39,"endTime":1329.98,"body":"know, just always kind of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1325.39,"endTime":1329.98,"body":"running up against the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1329.98,"endTime":1333.91,"body":"limitations of what you can do"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1329.98,"endTime":1333.91,"body":"and frustrations with how the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1333.91,"endTime":1339.58,"body":"medium is often misused or"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1333.91,"endTime":1339.58,"body":"misinterpreted. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1340.0,"endTime":1345.61,"body":"it's a lot to try and reckon"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1340.0,"endTime":1345.61,"body":"with. So yeah, that work came"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1345.61,"endTime":1349.09,"body":"together during grad school but"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1345.61,"endTime":1349.09,"body":"wasn't complete. When grad"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1349.09,"endTime":1352.72,"body":"school was completed, that was"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1349.09,"endTime":1352.72,"body":"kind of too finite a timeline."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1352.75,"endTime":1356.74,"body":"And so I let it continue to kind"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1352.75,"endTime":1356.74,"body":"of evolve organically for about"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1356.74,"endTime":1360.97,"body":"a year after school wrapped up"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1356.74,"endTime":1360.97,"body":"and then we published that book."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1361.09,"endTime":1365.17,"body":"And so the way things have kind"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1361.09,"endTime":1365.17,"body":"of spaced out, Carry Me Ohio"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1365.17,"endTime":1369.46,"body":"came out in 2016. I l Love You,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1365.17,"endTime":1369.46,"body":"I'm Leaving came out in 2017,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1369.91,"endTime":1373.27,"body":"2018. I did Sin and  Salvation"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1369.91,"endTime":1373.27,"body":"in Baptist Town with Sturm and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1373.27,"endTime":1375.91,"body":"Drang, which was the second part"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1373.27,"endTime":1375.91,"body":"of The Invisible Yolk series"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1375.91,"endTime":1378.61,"body":"that same year, I also did the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1375.91,"endTime":1378.61,"body":"collaborative book with Jared"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1378.61,"endTime":1383.5,"body":"Soares through Zatara. And that"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1378.61,"endTime":1383.5,"body":"one came about just because the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1383.53,"endTime":1385.63,"body":"publisher approached and said,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1383.53,"endTime":1385.63,"body":"Do you have anything you're"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1385.63,"endTime":1389.56,"body":"working on, and Jared, and I had"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1385.63,"endTime":1389.56,"body":"been doing a kind of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1389.56,"endTime":1392.29,"body":"collaborative back and forth for"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1389.56,"endTime":1392.29,"body":"a number of years, but hadn't"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1392.29,"endTime":1396.94,"body":"really found the home for that"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1392.29,"endTime":1396.94,"body":"work yet, but it was ready to be"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1396.94,"endTime":1401.71,"body":"shaped and we had enough to draw"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1396.94,"endTime":1401.71,"body":"from. And then that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1401.71,"endTime":1406.72,"body":"that felt like a bit of a detour"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1401.71,"endTime":1406.72,"body":"from what I've been working on,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1406.72,"endTime":1411.43,"body":"because the work was unpeopled,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1406.72,"endTime":1411.43,"body":"and, you know, but it's still"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1411.43,"endTime":1414.37,"body":"connected to a lot of threads"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1411.43,"endTime":1414.37,"body":"and themes of the other work"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1414.46,"endTime":1420.82,"body":"that I was making. It was nice"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1414.46,"endTime":1420.82,"body":"to be able to take a beat to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1420.82,"endTime":1423.94,"body":"think about something that was a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1420.82,"endTime":1423.94,"body":"little bit different. And then"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1423.94,"endTime":1425.74,"body":"not something that you didn't"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1423.94,"endTime":1425.74,"body":"spend,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1426.58,"endTime":1429.82,"body":"As opposed to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1426.58,"endTime":1429.82,"body":"being like, if you haven't"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1429.82,"endTime":1432.52,"body":"looked at it for a decade, it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1429.82,"endTime":1432.52,"body":"not even close."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1433.0,"endTime":1435.19,"body":"Yeah, I mean, the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1433.0,"endTime":1435.19,"body":"pictures for that book were"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1435.19,"endTime":1440.56,"body":"drawn from a long period of time"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1435.19,"endTime":1440.56,"body":"but the overall making of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1440.56,"endTime":1446.2,"body":"book was a lot more compressed."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1440.56,"endTime":1446.2,"body":"And then I started the full time"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1446.2,"endTime":1451.03,"body":"teaching position in the fall of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1446.2,"endTime":1451.03,"body":"2019. And we were hoping to put"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1451.03,"endTime":1455.11,"body":"The Seven Cities out in the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1451.03,"endTime":1455.11,"body":"fall, but nothing goes according"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1455.11,"endTime":1461.11,"body":"to plan and publishing,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1455.11,"endTime":1461.11,"body":"especially while teaching and so"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1461.11,"endTime":1463.36,"body":"the book came out during the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1461.11,"endTime":1463.36,"body":"middle of the pandemic, which"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1463.36,"endTime":1466.12,"body":"also wasn't something that we"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1463.36,"endTime":1466.12,"body":"had planned. But you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1466.12,"endTime":1470.11,"body":"that's just how it goes"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1466.12,"endTime":1470.11,"body":"sometimes. And now, we're"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1470.68,"endTime":1473.53,"body":"plugging along on the fourth and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1470.68,"endTime":1473.53,"body":"final volume, but still"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1473.89,"endTime":1477.28,"body":"massively behind schedule."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1473.89,"endTime":1477.28,"body":"Haven't nailed down any writers"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1477.28,"endTime":1483.73,"body":"yet. Still got about? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1477.28,"endTime":1483.73,"body":"about 13 years of stuff to wade"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1483.73,"endTime":1485.98,"body":"through piece by piece."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1486.64,"endTime":1489.13,"body":"Have you found"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1486.64,"endTime":1489.13,"body":"that it's been a completely"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1489.13,"endTime":1491.77,"body":"different experience working"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1489.13,"endTime":1491.77,"body":"with the three different"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1491.77,"endTime":1495.34,"body":"publishers or do they feel"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1491.77,"endTime":1495.34,"body":"similar and then also, tell me a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1495.34,"endTime":1499.63,"body":"little bit about Little Oak"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1495.34,"endTime":1499.63,"body":"Press and how you decide what's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1499.66,"endTime":1501.52,"body":"going to come out through your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1499.66,"endTime":1501.52,"body":"own imprint?"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1502.9,"endTime":1505.45,"body":"Yeah, I mean, every"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1502.9,"endTime":1505.45,"body":"publisher brings their own kind"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1505.45,"endTime":1511.06,"body":"of vision and personality to the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1505.45,"endTime":1511.06,"body":"mix. And I'm always really"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1511.06,"endTime":1514.78,"body":"interested in collaborating with"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1511.06,"endTime":1514.78,"body":"people and seeing what they"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1514.78,"endTime":1519.94,"body":"gravitate towards. And I think"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1514.78,"endTime":1519.94,"body":"the longer I work with people,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1519.94,"endTime":1522.46,"body":"the more we kind of understand"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1519.94,"endTime":1522.46,"body":"one another's rhythms and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1522.46,"endTime":1527.5,"body":"tastes, you know, so, Reto at"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1522.46,"endTime":1527.5,"body":"Sturm and Drang is the person"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1527.5,"endTime":1530.38,"body":"that I've worked with the most"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1527.5,"endTime":1530.38,"body":"consistently on publishing"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1530.38,"endTime":1535.42,"body":"things. And so at this point,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1530.38,"endTime":1535.42,"body":"we've got a rhythm of like, I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1535.42,"endTime":1538.96,"body":"bring a big pile of pictures,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1535.42,"endTime":1538.96,"body":"and I send that to Mike Davis."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1538.96,"endTime":1541.9,"body":"And then Mike whittles that down"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1538.96,"endTime":1541.9,"body":"to a few hundred. And then those"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1541.9,"endTime":1544.87,"body":"few hundred go to Reto. And then"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1541.9,"endTime":1544.87,"body":"he shows me kind of what his"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1544.87,"endTime":1548.62,"body":"favorites are, and I'm finding"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1544.87,"endTime":1548.62,"body":"what my favorites are and, and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1548.62,"endTime":1552.28,"body":"then I'm advocating for ones"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1548.62,"endTime":1552.28,"body":"that he didn't like, and he's"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1552.28,"endTime":1554.11,"body":"advocating for ones that I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1552.28,"endTime":1554.11,"body":"didn't like."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1554.23,"endTime":1557.32,"body":"That negotiation"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1554.23,"endTime":1557.32,"body":"is one of my favorite parts."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1557.62,"endTime":1560.2,"body":"Yeah, it's it's fun,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1557.62,"endTime":1560.2,"body":"you know, I mean, like, Huh, I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1560.2,"endTime":1563.32,"body":"guess I didn't really see this"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1560.2,"endTime":1563.32,"body":"thing that they see in this"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1563.32,"endTime":1567.52,"body":"picture. So learning how to read"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1563.32,"endTime":1567.52,"body":"your own photographs is part of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1567.52,"endTime":1571.06,"body":"the process. And then there's"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1567.52,"endTime":1571.06,"body":"the work print stage and putting"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1571.06,"endTime":1573.67,"body":"them on the wall, which is my"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1571.06,"endTime":1573.67,"body":"favorite part."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1573.67,"endTime":1577.33,"body":"Is that a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1573.67,"endTime":1577.33,"body":"magnetic wall?"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1577.96,"endTime":1582.13,"body":"Yeah, two, sheet"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1577.96,"endTime":1582.13,"body":"metal pieces kind of joined in"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1582.13,"endTime":1584.92,"body":"the middle here that take up"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1582.13,"endTime":1584.92,"body":"most of this studio wall."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1584.92,"endTime":1586.72,"body":"That's a pro"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1584.92,"endTime":1586.72,"body":"move right there."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1587.71,"endTime":1591.67,"body":"Let's see at that"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1587.71,"endTime":1591.67,"body":"stage, I guess we start playing"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1591.67,"endTime":1594.79,"body":"around in InDesign around that"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1591.67,"endTime":1594.79,"body":"same time, you know, so it's"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1594.79,"endTime":1599.29,"body":"kind of work in between wall and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1594.79,"endTime":1599.29,"body":"screen, and sharing stuff back"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1599.29,"endTime":1602.77,"body":"and forth. And that's usually"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1599.29,"endTime":1602.77,"body":"about where I get my friends and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1602.77,"endTime":1607.42,"body":"colleagues involved and seeing"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1602.77,"endTime":1607.42,"body":"if there's holes or gaps or, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1607.42,"endTime":1611.44,"body":"know, roadblocks in the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1607.42,"endTime":1611.44,"body":"sequencing that we're dealing"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1611.44,"endTime":1614.8,"body":"with. And eventually, through a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1611.44,"endTime":1614.8,"body":"lot of pushing and pulling, we"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1614.8,"endTime":1618.97,"body":"end up in a final form. The"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1614.8,"endTime":1618.97,"body":"Little Oak Press stuff that you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1618.97,"endTime":1625.12,"body":"asked about, has been a bit of a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1618.97,"endTime":1625.12,"body":"another kind of detour in, in"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1625.12,"endTime":1628.93,"body":"this process, because it's"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1625.12,"endTime":1628.93,"body":"really tedious, making a real"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1629.11,"endTime":1633.07,"body":"hard cover book, and putting"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1629.11,"endTime":1633.07,"body":"that into the world, trying to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1633.07,"endTime":1636.94,"body":"find press for it and all of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1633.07,"endTime":1636.94,"body":"that stuff. And especially"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1636.94,"endTime":1639.61,"body":"during the pandemic, you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1636.94,"endTime":1639.61,"body":"and even leading up to the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1639.61,"endTime":1644.62,"body":"pandemic, I've been going"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1639.61,"endTime":1644.62,"body":"through an elongated existential"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1644.62,"endTime":1648.94,"body":"funk, you know, where, again,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1644.62,"endTime":1648.94,"body":"kind of wrestling with what is"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1648.94,"endTime":1651.73,"body":"photography? What can it be?"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1648.94,"endTime":1651.73,"body":"What should it be? How am I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1651.73,"endTime":1654.46,"body":"using it? How should I be using"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1651.73,"endTime":1654.46,"body":"it? Am I doing this right?"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1654.46,"endTime":1658.36,"body":"Should I quit daily questions."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1658.34,"endTime":1661.28,"body":"And having"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1658.34,"endTime":1661.28,"body":"committed to The Invisible Yoke"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1661.34,"endTime":1666.47,"body":"as a four book thing, such a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1661.34,"endTime":1666.47,"body":"long time ago, relatively, do"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1666.47,"endTime":1669.89,"body":"you feel like you're in a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1666.47,"endTime":1669.89,"body":"position now where you're ready"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1669.89,"endTime":1674.6,"body":"to evolve to a new way of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1669.89,"endTime":1674.6,"body":"looking at things, but you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1674.63,"endTime":1679.01,"body":"still tied into finishing it o"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1674.63,"endTime":1679.01,"body":"t the old wa"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1679.69,"endTime":1684.13,"body":"That's very much"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1679.69,"endTime":1684.13,"body":"real. Like I haven't used a 35"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1684.16,"endTime":1691.36,"body":"millimeter camera for personal"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1684.16,"endTime":1691.36,"body":"work in probably two years. That"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1691.36,"endTime":1695.35,"body":"that's what all of that work is"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1691.36,"endTime":1695.35,"body":"made with is 35 millimeter color"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1695.35,"endTime":1698.98,"body":"digital. And these days, I'm"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1695.35,"endTime":1698.98,"body":"definitely mixing and more"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1698.98,"endTime":1702.37,"body":"analog and there's color, and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1698.98,"endTime":1702.37,"body":"there's black and white."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1703.42,"endTime":1707.26,"body":"Everything's been medium format."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1703.42,"endTime":1707.26,"body":"And over the break, I went up to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1707.26,"endTime":1711.79,"body":"DC and snagged a large format"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1707.26,"endTime":1711.79,"body":"camera. And honestly, I don't"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1711.79,"endTime":1716.8,"body":"know if I'm ready for this yet,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1711.79,"endTime":1716.8,"body":"but I'm going to try. So there"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1716.8,"endTime":1720.76,"body":"is that kind of urge to evolve"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1716.8,"endTime":1720.76,"body":"and the need to try different"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1720.91,"endTime":1726.52,"body":"visual languages. But um, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1720.91,"endTime":1726.52,"body":"know, of course, still resolving"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1726.52,"endTime":1729.64,"body":"this other work. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1726.52,"endTime":1729.64,"body":"grateful that I have the time"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1729.67,"endTime":1733.93,"body":"and the place to do that. So"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1729.67,"endTime":1733.93,"body":"that it doesn't feel like that's"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1733.96,"endTime":1736.99,"body":"hanging over my head. But yes,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1733.96,"endTime":1736.99,"body":"I'm kind of ready to put that to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1736.99,"endTime":1742.09,"body":"bed and move on with other"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1736.99,"endTime":1742.09,"body":"creative forms of expression."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1743.45,"endTime":1746.06,"body":"Well, your work"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1743.45,"endTime":1746.06,"body":"focuses on documenting American"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1746.06,"endTime":1749.66,"body":"lives, especially those that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1746.06,"endTime":1749.66,"body":"have been disenfranchised. So"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1749.66,"endTime":1753.23,"body":"I'm wondering, has this urge to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1749.66,"endTime":1753.23,"body":"evolve the way you see and the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1753.23,"endTime":1755.9,"body":"way you make work been"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1753.23,"endTime":1755.9,"body":"influenced at all by the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1755.9,"endTime":1759.74,"body":"turbulent political landscape or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1755.9,"endTime":1759.74,"body":"the last four years? Or is it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1759.74,"endTime":1761.51,"body":"coming from a different place?"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1762.59,"endTime":1766.64,"body":"It's a confluence of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1762.59,"endTime":1766.64,"body":"things, right? Like when I was"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1766.67,"endTime":1772.58,"body":"making The Invisible Yoke work,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1766.67,"endTime":1772.58,"body":"I started out pretty naive and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1772.58,"endTime":1778.94,"body":"very energetic and excited to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1772.58,"endTime":1778.94,"body":"see everything and not to say"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1778.94,"endTime":1782.39,"body":"that I'm old and tired, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1778.94,"endTime":1782.39,"body":"getting older and I'm getting"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1782.39,"endTime":1785.75,"body":"more tired. And I don't have"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1782.39,"endTime":1785.75,"body":"quite the same energy that I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1785.75,"endTime":1789.68,"body":"did. And I spent a lot of time"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1785.75,"endTime":1789.68,"body":"away from my family when when I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1789.68,"endTime":1793.7,"body":"was in my early to mid 20s. And"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1789.68,"endTime":1793.7,"body":"my girls are getting older now."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1794.09,"endTime":1796.88,"body":"I've got a teenager in the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1794.09,"endTime":1796.88,"body":"house, you know, like,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1797.57,"endTime":1800.15,"body":"especially now when they're"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1797.57,"endTime":1800.15,"body":"doing virtual learning, they"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1800.51,"endTime":1804.65,"body":"need me to be here, I just don't"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1800.51,"endTime":1804.65,"body":"have the flexibility to run"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1804.65,"endTime":1808.31,"body":"about that I used to. So"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1804.65,"endTime":1808.31,"body":"there's, you know, personal"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1808.31,"endTime":1813.41,"body":"shifts and professional shifts"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1808.31,"endTime":1813.41,"body":"in terms of who's commissioning,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1813.41,"endTime":1816.44,"body":"and what they're supporting and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1813.41,"endTime":1816.44,"body":"grants that you receive to do"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1816.44,"endTime":1820.97,"body":"the work like, without some form"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1816.44,"endTime":1820.97,"body":"of support, it's kind of like"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1821.96,"endTime":1824.6,"body":"screaming into the void, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1821.96,"endTime":1824.6,"body":"know, there's only so much I can"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1824.6,"endTime":1831.17,"body":"do on my own. So I'm really"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1824.6,"endTime":1831.17,"body":"grateful for the time that I've"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1831.17,"endTime":1834.62,"body":"had to make The Invisible Yoke"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1831.17,"endTime":1834.62,"body":"work of trying to bring that to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1834.65,"endTime":1837.47,"body":"some sort of completed form, but"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1834.65,"endTime":1837.47,"body":"knowing that you will probably"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1837.47,"endTime":1841.28,"body":"have to revisit or rethink it,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1837.47,"endTime":1841.28,"body":"at some point further down the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1841.28,"endTime":1847.43,"body":"line. And as somebody who tried"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1841.28,"endTime":1847.43,"body":"to make my living off of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1847.43,"endTime":1853.31,"body":"editorial, the broken editorial"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1847.43,"endTime":1853.31,"body":"model for 14 years, this time,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1853.73,"endTime":1856.25,"body":"teaching with a full time job"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1853.73,"endTime":1856.25,"body":"has allowed me to kind of step"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1856.25,"endTime":1859.67,"body":"off the hamster wheel and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1856.25,"endTime":1859.67,"body":"reexamine things a little bit"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1860.99,"endTime":1865.22,"body":"with a little distance or a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1860.99,"endTime":1865.22,"body":"little removed from that system."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1865.22,"endTime":1869.06,"body":"And, again, begin to kind of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1865.22,"endTime":1869.06,"body":"identify some of the problems in"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1869.06,"endTime":1872.57,"body":"the industry and the problems in"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1869.06,"endTime":1872.57,"body":"just like the speed of working"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1873.71,"endTime":1876.92,"body":"prevents you from really"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1873.71,"endTime":1876.92,"body":"thinking about things."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1877.7,"endTime":1879.53,"body":"So part of that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1877.7,"endTime":1879.53,"body":"intentionality that you were"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1879.53,"endTime":1883.28,"body":"talking about, less cacophony,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1879.53,"endTime":1883.28,"body":"more thinking, maybe, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1883.28,"endTime":1884.09,"body":"reflecting."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1886.37,"endTime":1888.89,"body":"You've made several big"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1886.37,"endTime":1888.89,"body":"decisions throughout your career"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1888.89,"endTime":1892.73,"body":"so far, forming a collective,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1888.89,"endTime":1892.73,"body":"leaving the collective to work"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1892.73,"endTime":1896.72,"body":"solo, going back to grad school"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1892.73,"endTime":1896.72,"body":"starting to teach full time,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1897.2,"endTime":1900.53,"body":"what would you say was your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1897.2,"endTime":1900.53,"body":"biggest wrong turn? And what did"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1900.53,"endTime":1901.37,"body":"you learn from it?"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1903.25,"endTime":1905.5,"body":"That's a great"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1903.25,"endTime":1905.5,"body":"question. That's one I'll"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1905.5,"endTime":1908.23,"body":"probably have to think on a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1905.5,"endTime":1908.23,"body":"little bit. I don't know if you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1908.56,"endTime":1914.35,"body":"made the wrong turn, usually"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1908.56,"endTime":1914.35,"body":"until much later. I can't say"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1914.35,"endTime":1917.23,"body":"there's anything that I'm, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1914.35,"endTime":1917.23,"body":"know, looking back that I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1917.23,"endTime":1924.46,"body":"really, really deeply regret."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1917.23,"endTime":1924.46,"body":"That I don't think I've valued"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1924.46,"endTime":1929.17,"body":"the work I was making. And the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1924.46,"endTime":1929.17,"body":"way that I should have perhaps,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1929.2,"endTime":1932.89,"body":"and something that I'm trying to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1929.2,"endTime":1932.89,"body":"drive home to my students is"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1932.89,"endTime":1937.54,"body":"like, we as Young Makers think"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1932.89,"endTime":1937.54,"body":"that these publications are"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1937.54,"endTime":1942.01,"body":"doing us a big favor, you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1937.54,"endTime":1942.01,"body":"to publish our work. But we"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1942.01,"endTime":1946.93,"body":"don't think about the potential"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1942.01,"endTime":1946.93,"body":"for damage it could do to the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1946.93,"endTime":1949.72,"body":"communities we've documented or"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1946.93,"endTime":1949.72,"body":"the relationships we've built"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1949.72,"endTime":1953.17,"body":"there. So I guess looking back,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1949.72,"endTime":1953.17,"body":"one thing I do regret was"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1953.41,"endTime":1956.11,"body":"allowing the Baptist Town work"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1953.41,"endTime":1956.11,"body":"to be published by an editorial"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1956.11,"endTime":1960.1,"body":"outlet that took it and shaped"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1956.11,"endTime":1960.1,"body":"it into a very convenient kind"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1960.1,"endTime":1963.16,"body":"of like white and black, rich"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1960.1,"endTime":1963.16,"body":"and poor in the south sort of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1963.16,"endTime":1965.86,"body":"narrative. And this, the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1963.16,"endTime":1965.86,"body":"narrative that they conveyed"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1965.86,"endTime":1969.49,"body":"wasn't untrue, but it was"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1965.86,"endTime":1969.49,"body":"oversimplified and lacked"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1969.52,"endTime":1975.04,"body":"nuance. And it's something that"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1969.52,"endTime":1975.04,"body":"I've realized more and more as"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1975.04,"endTime":1981.1,"body":"I've gone is, yeah, all of these"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1975.04,"endTime":1981.1,"body":"outlets are typically trying to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1981.1,"endTime":1984.82,"body":"use clickbait to drive traffic."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1981.1,"endTime":1984.82,"body":"And the more controversial it"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1984.82,"endTime":1989.44,"body":"is, the better it is for them."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1984.82,"endTime":1989.44,"body":"And the worse it is for the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1989.44,"endTime":1990.01,"body":"maker."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1990.1,"endTime":1994.21,"body":"a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1990.1,"endTime":1994.21,"body":"misrepresentation of what you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1994.21,"endTime":1995.05,"body":"trying to say"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1995.66,"endTime":1999.29,"body":"Right. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1995.66,"endTime":1999.29,"body":"at the very least, is going to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1999.29,"endTime":2003.85,"body":"burn bridges that you've built"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":1999.29,"endTime":2003.85,"body":"over years of, you know, trust"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2003.85,"endTime":2007.54,"body":"building in the community. So"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2003.85,"endTime":2007.54,"body":"that's something that I try and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2007.6,"endTime":2012.76,"body":"drive home to the students is"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2007.6,"endTime":2012.76,"body":"it's a cost benefit, or risk"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2012.76,"endTime":2016.54,"body":"reward kind of calculation, they"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2012.76,"endTime":2016.54,"body":"need to make. Some big name"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2016.54,"endTime":2019.03,"body":"publication comes to you and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2016.54,"endTime":2019.03,"body":"says, \"We love what you're"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2019.03,"endTime":2022.12,"body":"making here. We want to publish"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2019.03,"endTime":2022.12,"body":"it.\" Great, good for you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2022.18,"endTime":2026.11,"body":"celebrate that, be excited. But"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2022.18,"endTime":2026.11,"body":"think about it critically, like"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2026.11,"endTime":2031.24,"body":"what could go wrong? How do you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2026.11,"endTime":2031.24,"body":"kind of circumnavigate that or,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2031.24,"endTime":2033.07,"body":"like, prevent that from going"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2031.24,"endTime":2033.07,"body":"wrong?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2034.78,"endTime":2037.75,"body":"Okay, following"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2034.78,"endTime":2037.75,"body":"up on that, in hindsight, what"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2037.75,"endTime":2040.81,"body":"was the best decision you made?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2037.75,"endTime":2040.81,"body":"And did you see it that way at"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2040.81,"endTime":2041.41,"body":"the time?"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2043.43,"endTime":2048.14,"body":"I think I'm probably"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2043.43,"endTime":2048.14,"body":"too in the middle of things to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2048.14,"endTime":2051.89,"body":"know what that is at the moment."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2048.14,"endTime":2051.89,"body":"I mean, the best decision was"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2051.89,"endTime":2054.65,"body":"probably going into the study"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2051.89,"endTime":2054.65,"body":"photojournalism at Ohio"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2054.65,"endTime":2059.0,"body":"University and meeting my wife"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2054.65,"endTime":2059.0,"body":"and like, starting a family and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2059.0,"endTime":2063.26,"body":"sticking with that, despite all"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2059.0,"endTime":2063.26,"body":"challenges, so professionally"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2063.26,"endTime":2067.37,"body":"speaking, yeah, I don't really"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2063.26,"endTime":2067.37,"body":"know. You just try and make the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2067.37,"endTime":2071.03,"body":"best decisions you can in the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2067.37,"endTime":2071.03,"body":"moment and always asking peers"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2071.03,"endTime":2074.75,"body":"and colleagues like, how do you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2071.03,"endTime":2074.75,"body":"feel about this? Does this the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2074.75,"endTime":2077.69,"body":"sound right? Does it not? That I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2074.75,"endTime":2077.69,"body":"think that we all need to be"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2077.87,"endTime":2081.8,"body":"pretty self critical of how we"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2077.87,"endTime":2081.8,"body":"function in the world, how our"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2081.8,"endTime":2084.95,"body":"work functions in the world, how"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2081.8,"endTime":2084.95,"body":"we're thinking about it, how"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2084.95,"endTime":2088.19,"body":"we're making it and realizing"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2084.95,"endTime":2088.19,"body":"that our intentions won't save"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2088.19,"endTime":2090.86,"body":"us. You know, once the pictures"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2088.19,"endTime":2090.86,"body":"are made, and in the world, they"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2090.86,"endTime":2093.17,"body":"don't belong to you anymore,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2090.86,"endTime":2093.17,"body":"really, like it's up to the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2093.17,"endTime":2095.78,"body":"viewer to bring their own"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2093.17,"endTime":2095.78,"body":"reading and interpretation to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2095.78,"endTime":2099.32,"body":"it. So we have to craft images"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2095.78,"endTime":2099.32,"body":"very thoughtfully and we have to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2099.32,"endTime":2103.76,"body":"disseminate them really"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2099.32,"endTime":2103.76,"body":"thoughtfully, too. And that is"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2104.0,"endTime":2106.85,"body":"the exact opposite of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2104.0,"endTime":2106.85,"body":"culture that we're living in"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2106.85,"endTime":2110.9,"body":"right now, which is just like,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2106.85,"endTime":2110.9,"body":"boom, I made it there, it goes"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2110.96,"endTime":2118.1,"body":"out the door, no thought like,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2110.96,"endTime":2118.1,"body":"no here like \"no filter\". And I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2118.1,"endTime":2121.94,"body":"just can't function, I can't get"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2118.1,"endTime":2121.94,"body":"down with that anymore. So I've"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2121.94,"endTime":2125.39,"body":"been wanting to pull further and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2121.94,"endTime":2125.39,"body":"further back from this kind of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2125.42,"endTime":2130.43,"body":"instant consumerism culture. The"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2125.42,"endTime":2130.43,"body":"Internet's a great resource for"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2130.43,"endTime":2134.66,"body":"a lot of things. But it's also a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2130.43,"endTime":2134.66,"body":"black hole for sharing your"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2134.66,"endTime":2138.11,"body":"work. It's not how my work is"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2134.66,"endTime":2138.11,"body":"meant to be seen or interacted"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2138.11,"endTime":2141.89,"body":"with - maybe on the wall, but"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2138.11,"endTime":2141.89,"body":"really, in book form. That's"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2141.89,"endTime":2145.13,"body":"kind of how it's meant. But"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2141.89,"endTime":2145.13,"body":"that's going to be a continued"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2145.13,"endTime":2148.43,"body":"push over the next few years, I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2145.13,"endTime":2148.43,"body":"think it's sort of the process"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2148.43,"endTime":2152.78,"body":"of disappearing so that I can be"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2148.43,"endTime":2152.78,"body":"less distracted by all of that"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2152.81,"endTime":2155.9,"body":"noise and just focus on making."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2158.81,"endTime":2161.75,"body":"So I have one"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2158.81,"endTime":2161.75,"body":"last question for you. This"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2161.75,"endTime":2164.72,"body":"podcast is really about the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2161.75,"endTime":2164.72,"body":"journey where you went right,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2164.72,"endTime":2167.99,"body":"where you went wrong. And I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2164.72,"endTime":2167.99,"body":"think most people would look at"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2167.99,"endTime":2171.71,"body":"you - the arc of your career,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2167.99,"endTime":2171.71,"body":"your accomplishments and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2171.71,"endTime":2176.42,"body":"consider you to be really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2171.71,"endTime":2176.42,"body":"successful. And I'm wondering,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2176.42,"endTime":2179.09,"body":"do you feel that way? Do you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2176.42,"endTime":2179.09,"body":"wake up in the morning and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2179.09,"endTime":2183.35,"body":"think, \"I'm nailing this\"? Or do"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2179.09,"endTime":2183.35,"body":"you feel like there's still a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2183.35,"endTime":2185.18,"body":"lot you want to learn and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2183.35,"endTime":2185.18,"body":"achieve?"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2188.15,"endTime":2189.92,"body":"And this was another"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2188.15,"endTime":2189.92,"body":"conversation that I have with"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2189.98,"endTime":2192.53,"body":"friends and colleagues and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2189.98,"endTime":2192.53,"body":"students, but like, you never"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2192.53,"endTime":2195.89,"body":"really wake up and feel like,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2192.53,"endTime":2195.89,"body":"oh, I've suddenly arrived, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2195.89,"endTime":2198.26,"body":"know, or at least that's not a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2195.89,"endTime":2198.26,"body":"sensation I'm familiar with."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2199.49,"endTime":2204.17,"body":"There might be little kind of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2199.49,"endTime":2204.17,"body":"pit stops of success along the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2204.17,"endTime":2209.42,"body":"way, but it's really an uphill"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2204.17,"endTime":2209.42,"body":"climb. I don't feel like I've"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2209.42,"endTime":2213.89,"body":"done that much. I have to remind"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2209.42,"endTime":2213.89,"body":"myself to breathe and be a human"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2213.89,"endTime":2219.2,"body":"being and just be okay with it."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2213.89,"endTime":2219.2,"body":"A lot of days, to be patient"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2219.2,"endTime":2222.62,"body":"with myself, you'd asked a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2219.2,"endTime":2222.62,"body":"little bit earlier about Little"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2222.62,"endTime":2226.46,"body":"Oak Press and kind of how that"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2222.62,"endTime":2226.46,"body":"functions within this broader"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2226.46,"endTime":2231.77,"body":"ecosystem of publishing. Because"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2226.46,"endTime":2231.77,"body":"putting pictures on paper and,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2232.16,"endTime":2235.16,"body":"you know, between two covers and"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2232.16,"endTime":2235.16,"body":"out into the world, that's my"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2235.25,"endTime":2240.32,"body":"preferred form of communication."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2235.25,"endTime":2240.32,"body":"I realized that Little Oak Press"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2240.41,"endTime":2247.13,"body":". . .so it started more formally"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2240.41,"endTime":2247.13,"body":"in 2019 through the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2247.13,"endTime":2249.89,"body":"encouragement of Jared Soares,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2247.13,"endTime":2249.89,"body":"because he was tired of hearing"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2249.89,"endTime":2254.51,"body":"me complaining about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2249.89,"endTime":2254.51,"body":"the, the death of the industry"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2254.51,"endTime":2260.48,"body":"and lack of ability to use work"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2254.51,"endTime":2260.48,"body":"in a meaningful way and all of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2260.48,"endTime":2262.61,"body":"that stuff, and he was like,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2260.48,"endTime":2262.61,"body":"just make something man. You"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2262.61,"endTime":2266.69,"body":"know, I was pretty depressed at"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2262.61,"endTime":2266.69,"body":"the time. \"Just make something"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2266.69,"endTime":2270.14,"body":"and see what that does.\" So I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2266.69,"endTime":2270.14,"body":"made this little zine with a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2270.17,"endTime":2273.56,"body":"collection of pictures from the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2270.17,"endTime":2273.56,"body":"year prior. And it was called,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2273.56,"endTime":2277.85,"body":"Does Anyone Dare Despise This"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2273.56,"endTime":2277.85,"body":"Day of Small Beginnings. And"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2277.91,"endTime":2283.82,"body":"that kicked off the Seasonal"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2277.91,"endTime":2283.82,"body":"Blues series, which began with"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2283.88,"endTime":2287.96,"body":"winter 2019. And so I've done"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2283.88,"endTime":2287.96,"body":"five of those now through winter"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2288.02,"endTime":2292.19,"body":"of 2020, working on volume six,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2288.02,"endTime":2292.19,"body":"which is spring, and then"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2292.25,"endTime":2295.43,"body":"summer, and then fall, and I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2292.25,"endTime":2295.43,"body":"think I'm gonna hit a pause on"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2295.43,"endTime":2300.23,"body":"that. These are just little, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2295.43,"endTime":2300.23,"body":"know, softcover magazines"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2300.23,"endTime":2303.2,"body":"basically, that they have enough"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2300.23,"endTime":2303.2,"body":"pictures to be a book link to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2303.2,"endTime":2308.99,"body":"work mostly that kind of drawing"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2303.2,"endTime":2308.99,"body":"disparate images from a season,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2309.02,"endTime":2312.44,"body":"that's the only rule was they"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2309.02,"endTime":2312.44,"body":"had to be made between this day"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2312.44,"endTime":2314.81,"body":"in this day, mark in the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2312.44,"endTime":2314.81,"body":"beginning, the end of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2314.81,"endTime":2320.15,"body":"season. And I'm thinking about"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2314.81,"endTime":2320.15,"body":"these specifically, it's kind of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2320.15,"endTime":2325.25,"body":"like a batting cage or a test"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2320.15,"endTime":2325.25,"body":"chamber for how these pictures"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2325.25,"endTime":2328.43,"body":"function together, right. And"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2325.25,"endTime":2328.43,"body":"with the knowledge that they'll"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2328.43,"endTime":2332.27,"body":"probably exist in a different"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2328.43,"endTime":2332.27,"body":"form later. And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2332.27,"endTime":2335.48,"body":"the primary function of Little"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2332.27,"endTime":2335.48,"body":"Oak Press at this moment, but I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2335.48,"endTime":2338.66,"body":"want it to evolve into something"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2335.48,"endTime":2338.66,"body":"else. And then I have gotten a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2338.66,"endTime":2344.39,"body":"couple more heavy book"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2338.66,"endTime":2344.39,"body":"maquettes, like I did one for"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2344.39,"endTime":2347.48,"body":"Say Hello to Everybody, Okay,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2344.39,"endTime":2347.48,"body":"which is a six-year body of"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2347.48,"endTime":2351.86,"body":"work. And that was a stepping"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2347.48,"endTime":2351.86,"body":"stone towards finding a"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2352.31,"endTime":2355.37,"body":"traditional publisher for it."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2352.31,"endTime":2355.37,"body":"Because I could only afford to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2355.37,"endTime":2360.08,"body":"do a limited edition run, I did"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2355.37,"endTime":2360.08,"body":"25 copies, and then sold enough"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2360.08,"endTime":2366.02,"body":"to break even, and then sending"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2360.08,"endTime":2366.02,"body":"PDFs to my top publisher choices"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2366.02,"endTime":2371.75,"body":"and kind of waiting now to see"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2366.02,"endTime":2371.75,"body":"if anybody bites on that. If"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2371.75,"endTime":2374.36,"body":"not, then maybe I'll self"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2371.75,"endTime":2374.36,"body":"publish it in a couple years if"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2374.36,"endTime":2379.91,"body":"I can find the funds for it. At"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2374.36,"endTime":2379.91,"body":"least for now, it's provided an"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2379.94,"endTime":2384.59,"body":"outlet to kind of express myself"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2379.94,"endTime":2384.59,"body":"and experiment with things. And"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2384.59,"endTime":2387.92,"body":"we'll see where that leads. But"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2384.59,"endTime":2387.92,"body":"for now, it's been nice to have"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2387.92,"endTime":2392.36,"body":"an outlet. When I feel like I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2387.92,"endTime":2392.36,"body":"can't be out making pictures in"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2392.36,"endTime":2395.84,"body":"the world in the way that I"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2392.36,"endTime":2395.84,"body":"would like to be. I can always"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2395.84,"endTime":2399.89,"body":"be hunkered down here trying to"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2395.84,"endTime":2399.89,"body":"shape them into some form that"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2399.89,"endTime":2400.73,"body":"makes sense."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2400.76,"endTime":2403.43,"body":"Right. You can"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2400.76,"endTime":2403.43,"body":"kind of channel that creative"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2403.7,"endTime":2405.53,"body":"practice in a different way."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2406.64,"endTime":2407.84,"body":"Creative angst, yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2409.97,"endTime":2412.49,"body":"Well, I really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2409.97,"endTime":2412.49,"body":"appreciate you talking with me."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2412.49,"endTime":2416.54,"body":"This has been awesome and great"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2412.49,"endTime":2416.54,"body":"to catch up and connect."},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2418.25,"endTime":2421.25,"body":"I appreciate you"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2418.25,"endTime":2421.25,"body":"making time to chat and you know"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2421.25,"endTime":2424.85,"body":"for your interest in the work"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2421.25,"endTime":2424.85,"body":"and encouragement along the way,"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2424.88,"endTime":2429.17,"body":"as always. Exciting to see what"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2424.88,"endTime":2429.17,"body":"y'all are up to down in Atlanta"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2429.17,"endTime":2433.1,"body":"as well and always happy to see"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2429.17,"endTime":2433.1,"body":"that you're continuing to roll"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2433.1,"endTime":2437.99,"body":"books out and expand the Yoffy"},{"speaker":"Matt Eich","startTime":2433.1,"endTime":2437.99,"body":"universe."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2443.51,"endTime":2445.4,"body":"Thank you all"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2443.51,"endTime":2445.4,"body":"for tuning in to the perfect"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2445.4,"endTime":2447.56,"body":"bound podcast, and we'll catch"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2445.4,"endTime":2447.56,"body":"you next time."}]}