{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":8.37,"endTime":10.8,"body":"Welcome to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":8.37,"endTime":10.8,"body":"perfect bound, a podcast where"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":10.8,"endTime":14.01,"body":"we talk to artists about their"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":10.8,"endTime":14.01,"body":"journey, how they got where they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":14.01,"endTime":17.04,"body":"are, what right and wrong turns"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":14.01,"endTime":17.04,"body":"they made along the way and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":17.04,"endTime":18.09,"body":"where they're heading next."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":28.95,"endTime":31.65,"body":"David Hilliard was born in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":28.95,"endTime":31.65,"body":"Lowell, Massachusetts, and he"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":31.65,"endTime":35.58,"body":"lives and works in Boston. He"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":31.65,"endTime":35.58,"body":"received his BFA from"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":35.58,"endTime":39.51,"body":"Massachusetts College of Art in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":35.58,"endTime":39.51,"body":"1992, and his MFA from Yale"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":39.51,"endTime":44.19,"body":"University in 1994. He was the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":39.51,"endTime":44.19,"body":"recipient of a Fulbright grant"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":44.19,"endTime":47.46,"body":"and a Guggenheim Fellowship, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":44.19,"endTime":47.46,"body":"he was awarded the Bok Center"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":47.46,"endTime":51.48,"body":"Award for Excellence in Teaching"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":47.46,"endTime":51.48,"body":"by Harvard University in 2012."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":52.26,"endTime":55.2,"body":"Documenting his life and the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":52.26,"endTime":55.2,"body":"lives of those around him. Each"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":55.2,"endTime":58.32,"body":"work is made up of a number of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":55.2,"endTime":58.32,"body":"images that employs slightly"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":58.32,"endTime":61.56,"body":"different focal points, offering"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":58.32,"endTime":61.56,"body":"multiple perspectives of a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":61.56,"endTime":65.19,"body":"single scene. Hilliard takes the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":61.56,"endTime":65.19,"body":"personal, unfamiliar and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":65.19,"endTime":69.18,"body":"manipulates them to provide a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":65.19,"endTime":69.18,"body":"commentary on larger issues such"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":69.18,"endTime":73.68,"body":"as masculinity, coming of age,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":69.18,"endTime":73.68,"body":"sexuality, and spirituality,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":73.92,"endTime":77.76,"body":"striking a balance between"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":73.92,"endTime":77.76,"body":"autobiography and fiction. It is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":77.76,"endTime":81.84,"body":"my great honor to welcome David"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":77.76,"endTime":81.84,"body":"Hilliard to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":83.64,"endTime":87.15,"body":"I wanted to start by talking"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":83.64,"endTime":87.15,"body":"about the format, your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":87.15,"endTime":90.96,"body":"triptychs. And you've talked"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":87.15,"endTime":90.96,"body":"about how the decision to create"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":90.96,"endTime":94.38,"body":"work and a multi-panel"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":90.96,"endTime":94.38,"body":"presentation that way. It came"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":94.38,"endTime":97.86,"body":"from your love of film and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":94.38,"endTime":97.86,"body":"theater and storytelling and the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":97.86,"endTime":100.77,"body":"desire to create more"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":97.86,"endTime":100.77,"body":"associations and implied"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":100.77,"endTime":104.46,"body":"narratives in the work and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":100.77,"endTime":104.46,"body":"within a certain piece. So I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":104.46,"endTime":106.83,"body":"wanted to know, have you found"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":104.46,"endTime":106.83,"body":"that that way of presenting an"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":106.83,"endTime":110.85,"body":"image allows the viewer to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":106.83,"endTime":110.85,"body":"connect more strongly with it,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":110.88,"endTime":114.27,"body":"like maybe they're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":110.88,"endTime":114.27,"body":"subconsciously being invited to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":114.3,"endTime":117.36,"body":"fill the gaps within the story?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":114.3,"endTime":117.36,"body":"Have you gotten any feedback"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":117.36,"endTime":117.96,"body":"like that?"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":118.709,"endTime":121.199,"body":"I would say for"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":118.709,"endTime":121.199,"body":"sure the work has a lot of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":121.199,"endTime":124.019,"body":"visual play, it's kind of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":121.199,"endTime":124.019,"body":"jumping in the ways that you"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":124.019,"endTime":127.259,"body":"described because it's this a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":124.019,"endTime":127.259,"body":"little bit of a hybrid way of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":127.469,"endTime":132.929,"body":"making and seeing. But it's also"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":127.469,"endTime":132.929,"body":"a little bit I always joke about"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":132.929,"endTime":135.869,"body":"this, but it's kind of true,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":132.929,"endTime":135.869,"body":"it's a little bit bossy, meaning"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":135.869,"endTime":139.079,"body":"that it tells you at points in a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":135.869,"endTime":139.079,"body":"way that photography is supposed"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":139.079,"endTime":142.259,"body":"to be kind of, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":139.079,"endTime":142.259,"body":"objective, it shows the world as"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":142.259,"endTime":145.019,"body":"it is, but it kind of doesn't in"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":142.259,"endTime":145.019,"body":"my work, because I'm asking you"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":145.019,"endTime":149.519,"body":"to make associations between"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":145.019,"endTime":149.519,"body":"pictures. And beyond that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":149.519,"endTime":153.239,"body":"between like, moments of focus"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":149.519,"endTime":153.239,"body":"within those pictures, like look"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":153.239,"endTime":157.379,"body":"at the surface of this, and then"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":153.239,"endTime":157.379,"body":"maybe make a formal or"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":157.379,"endTime":160.859,"body":"conceptual association with the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":157.379,"endTime":160.859,"body":"next picture to the right or the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":160.859,"endTime":167.489,"body":"left or up or down and make"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":160.859,"endTime":167.489,"body":"connections. The trick. So I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":167.489,"endTime":172.049,"body":"think it's been it invites the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":167.489,"endTime":172.049,"body":"viewer to kind of like, have a I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":172.049,"endTime":175.019,"body":"think a strong hopefully if I do"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":172.049,"endTime":175.019,"body":"my job, well a strong visual"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":175.019,"endTime":178.799,"body":"connection between pictures, but"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":175.019,"endTime":178.799,"body":"also and maybe more importantly,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":178.799,"endTime":183.989,"body":"for me to conceptually make"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":178.799,"endTime":183.989,"body":"associations about the world,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":184.259,"endTime":188.069,"body":"about identity about politics,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":184.259,"endTime":188.069,"body":"whatever, our family. And then"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":188.069,"endTime":191.039,"body":"but this is my key point. And"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":188.069,"endTime":191.039,"body":"you're not asking this question,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":191.039,"endTime":195.749,"body":"but maybe I'll just go for that."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":191.039,"endTime":195.749,"body":"Although I said it's a little"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":195.749,"endTime":199.289,"body":"bit bossy, but not to be all"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":195.749,"endTime":199.289,"body":"kidding aside not to be too"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":199.289,"endTime":202.529,"body":"bossy, meaning, there's a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":199.289,"endTime":202.529,"body":"difference between being kind of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":202.529,"endTime":205.289,"body":"didactic, and saying like, this"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":202.529,"endTime":205.289,"body":"is what I want you to think. And"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":205.649,"endTime":208.949,"body":"this is just what I want you to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":205.649,"endTime":208.949,"body":"maybe consider, you know, like"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":208.949,"endTime":212.009,"body":"this could be. And that's kind"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":208.949,"endTime":212.009,"body":"of what my last show in New York"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":212.009,"endTime":215.849,"body":"was about it was a show called"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":212.009,"endTime":215.849,"body":"just so was inviting the viewer"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":215.849,"endTime":219.479,"body":"to make associations, but kind"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":215.849,"endTime":219.479,"body":"of trying to find that sweet"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":219.479,"endTime":223.049,"body":"spot between my experience my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":219.479,"endTime":223.049,"body":"identity, my life, and maybe"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":223.049,"endTime":223.709,"body":"yours."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":224.08,"endTime":225.82,"body":"So instead of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":224.08,"endTime":225.82,"body":"saying, \"this is what I want you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":225.82,"endTime":228.43,"body":"to think and feel\", you're like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":225.82,"endTime":228.43,"body":"\"if you're going to look at"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":228.43,"endTime":232.63,"body":"this, you might want to explore"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":228.43,"endTime":232.63,"body":"this avenue or that avenue of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":232.63,"endTime":234.28,"body":"approach to experience this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":232.63,"endTime":234.28,"body":"thing.\""},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":234.28,"endTime":236.44,"body":"And, and that's"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":234.28,"endTime":236.44,"body":"what I think a lot of us would"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":236.44,"endTime":240.37,"body":"say is great about, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":236.44,"endTime":240.37,"body":"life in general, but about"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":240.37,"endTime":244.6,"body":"certainly about visual culture"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":240.37,"endTime":244.6,"body":"is that associations are offered"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":244.6,"endTime":247.12,"body":"to us and hopefully not shoved"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":244.6,"endTime":247.12,"body":"down our throat."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":247.93,"endTime":251.62,"body":"You know that I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":247.93,"endTime":251.62,"body":"own your piece Boys, Tethered,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":251.68,"endTime":254.65,"body":"which I adore. And as a side"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":251.68,"endTime":254.65,"body":"note, I was texting with a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":254.65,"endTime":256.75,"body":"photographer last night and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":254.65,"endTime":256.75,"body":"saying that I was doing this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":256.75,"endTime":259.42,"body":"interview today. And he was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":256.75,"endTime":259.42,"body":"like, \"Oh, I love David"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":259.42,"endTime":263.71,"body":"Hilliard's work\", and I said,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":259.42,"endTime":263.71,"body":"\"Me too. I have Boys Tethered"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":263.71,"endTime":266.8,"body":"hanging in my bedroom\". And he"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":263.71,"endTime":266.8,"body":"wrote that doesn't translate"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":266.8,"endTime":273.31,"body":"very well over text. I was like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":266.8,"endTime":273.31,"body":"excellent point."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":295.9,"endTime":297.73,"body":"You know, and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":295.9,"endTime":297.73,"body":"what I will say about that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":297.73,"endTime":302.53,"body":"picture is that if I could pick"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":297.73,"endTime":302.53,"body":"one or two photographs that hit"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":303.25,"endTime":307.27,"body":"if I had to, like have the the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":303.25,"endTime":307.27,"body":"cliff note visual guide for"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":307.27,"endTime":311.11,"body":"David Hilliard photograph"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":307.27,"endTime":311.11,"body":"thematically and formally, that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":311.11,"endTime":313.45,"body":"would be one of the pictures"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":311.11,"endTime":313.45,"body":"because it kind of does"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":313.45,"endTime":318.73,"body":"everything that I want my work"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":313.45,"endTime":318.73,"body":"to do, at least in to my humble"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":318.73,"endTime":320.56,"body":"eye, it does that well."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":320.56,"endTime":322.0,"body":"What is that?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":320.56,"endTime":322.0,"body":"What are the things that you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":322.0,"endTime":322.72,"body":"want your work to do?"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":322.0,"endTime":324.46,"body":"I think it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":322.0,"endTime":324.46,"body":"describes the way I work"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":324.46,"endTime":327.49,"body":"visually, the way the interplay"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":324.46,"endTime":327.49,"body":"between photographs and focus"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":327.49,"endTime":331.99,"body":"work, the way I use water as a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":327.49,"endTime":331.99,"body":"metaphor as a mediator of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":331.99,"endTime":334.69,"body":"experience, the way I use color"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":331.99,"endTime":334.69,"body":"in different ways. And because"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":334.69,"endTime":338.29,"body":"that picture has a kind of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":334.69,"endTime":338.29,"body":"muted, primary gray, grim"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":338.29,"endTime":342.52,"body":"primary color, the way I use"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":338.29,"endTime":342.52,"body":"weather - it has all the fog, it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":342.52,"endTime":345.64,"body":"has the relationships between"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":342.52,"endTime":345.64,"body":"people, connection, and also"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":345.64,"endTime":348.34,"body":"separation, the boys are either"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":345.64,"endTime":348.34,"body":"drifting together or drifting"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":348.34,"endTime":353.62,"body":"apart, open ended, right? So"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":348.34,"endTime":353.62,"body":"that it suggests associations,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":353.83,"endTime":358.33,"body":"it is temporal, meaning that it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":353.83,"endTime":358.33,"body":"deals with weather and time. You"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":358.33,"endTime":363.04,"body":"know, so physical aging, 15 year"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":358.33,"endTime":363.04,"body":"old boys aging, emotionally and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":363.04,"endTime":367.0,"body":"physically, weather changing as"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":363.04,"endTime":367.0,"body":"the perfect metaphor for kind of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":367.0,"endTime":371.8,"body":"trying to see and change and all"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":367.0,"endTime":371.8,"body":"that and queerness of course."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":372.13,"endTime":374.59,"body":"Yeah, and it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":372.13,"endTime":374.59,"body":"got a yearning to it. That I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":374.59,"endTime":379.39,"body":"think is a strong theme that I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":374.59,"endTime":379.39,"body":"connect to really strongly in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":379.39,"endTime":381.04,"body":"that piece. And in a lot of your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":379.39,"endTime":381.04,"body":"work."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":381.22,"endTime":382.45,"body":"Yeah. And the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":381.22,"endTime":382.45,"body":"fact that it hangs in your"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":382.45,"endTime":384.76,"body":"bedroom, I thought an"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":382.45,"endTime":384.76,"body":"interesting podcast would be an"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":384.76,"endTime":386.95,"body":"interview, not that I'm telling"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":384.76,"endTime":386.95,"body":"you things that you should do."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":387.19,"endTime":389.77,"body":"But like, you know, interviewing"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":387.19,"endTime":389.77,"body":"artists about the work that they"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":389.77,"endTime":390.64,"body":"hang in their bedroom."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":391.3,"endTime":392.38,"body":"Yeah, it is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":391.3,"endTime":392.38,"body":"interesting."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":393.01,"endTime":395.14,"body":"I cuz I've just"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":393.01,"endTime":395.14,"body":"moved in. I'm like, what do I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":395.14,"endTime":398.98,"body":"hang over my bed? And I can tell"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":395.14,"endTime":398.98,"body":"you in this podcast, or"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":398.98,"endTime":402.25,"body":"privately like what I have in my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":398.98,"endTime":402.25,"body":"room, but it's it's a big"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":402.25,"endTime":405.34,"body":"choice, you know, cuz you got to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":402.25,"endTime":405.34,"body":"look at that thing in bed while"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":405.34,"endTime":407.56,"body":"you're sleeping while you're not"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":405.34,"endTime":407.56,"body":"sleeping. While you're making"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":407.56,"endTime":408.19,"body":"love whatever."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":410.65,"endTime":413.2,"body":"And you don't"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":410.65,"endTime":413.2,"body":"have your own work in your home."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":413.0,"endTime":416.63,"body":"I don't, no."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":413.0,"endTime":416.63,"body":"Well, I do have one piece that I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":416.63,"endTime":420.11,"body":"can talk about. That's kind of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":416.63,"endTime":420.11,"body":"sad, but because it's symbolic."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":420.11,"endTime":422.84,"body":"For me, it's a piece that I made"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":420.11,"endTime":422.84,"body":"in college, actually. But it's"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":423.62,"endTime":427.73,"body":"it's a picture of my father who"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":423.62,"endTime":427.73,"body":"recently passed, a victim of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":427.73,"endTime":431.9,"body":"COVID. And also a friend who"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":427.73,"endTime":431.9,"body":"died, one of my best friends, my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":431.9,"endTime":435.26,"body":"very first boyfriend, actually,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":431.9,"endTime":435.26,"body":"who died a couple of years ago."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":435.53,"endTime":438.14,"body":"And it's a picture I made of the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":435.53,"endTime":438.14,"body":"two of them. It's a black and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":438.14,"endTime":441.26,"body":"white, though. I'll send it to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":438.14,"endTime":441.26,"body":"you. I'll email it to you."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":441.41,"endTime":444.5,"body":"Yeah, please do."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":441.41,"endTime":444.5,"body":"I can include it in the show"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":444.5,"endTime":446.72,"body":"notes. I don't know what that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":444.5,"endTime":446.72,"body":"means, but I hear other"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":446.72,"endTime":448.85,"body":"podcasters say it, so I'll"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":446.72,"endTime":448.85,"body":"figure it out."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":448.87,"endTime":450.94,"body":"Show notes."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":448.87,"endTime":450.94,"body":"That's going to be the title of."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":450.97,"endTime":454.78,"body":". . Yeah, no, but it's a really"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":450.97,"endTime":454.78,"body":"beautiful picture of two"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":454.78,"endTime":458.23,"body":"formative men in my life, that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":454.78,"endTime":458.23,"body":"are together in this little"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":458.23,"endTime":461.98,"body":"cabin in Canada, we had been"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":458.23,"endTime":461.98,"body":"together and we inadvertently"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":461.98,"endTime":465.91,"body":"got stuck in a room, a bedroom,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":461.98,"endTime":465.91,"body":"my father and myself and my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":466.21,"endTime":470.05,"body":"partner, were supposed to have"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":466.21,"endTime":470.05,"body":"two rooms and ended up in double"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":470.05,"endTime":474.55,"body":"beds. And so it was the next"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":470.05,"endTime":474.55,"body":"morning. A beautiful story, but"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":474.55,"endTime":477.85,"body":"it's a portrait of the two of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":474.55,"endTime":477.85,"body":"them side by side. And that's"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":477.85,"endTime":480.97,"body":"lovely. And now they're both"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":477.85,"endTime":480.97,"body":"gone. You know, they live on?"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":481.21,"endTime":481.51,"body":"Well."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":483.37,"endTime":485.89,"body":"The, so I was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":483.37,"endTime":485.89,"body":"really familiar with your work,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":485.89,"endTime":490.0,"body":"like I said, before we met. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":485.89,"endTime":490.0,"body":"because your work is so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":490.0,"endTime":493.48,"body":"emotional, and personal and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":490.0,"endTime":493.48,"body":"vulnerable. It felt like I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":493.48,"endTime":496.72,"body":"already knew so much about you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":493.48,"endTime":496.72,"body":"before we met. Do you think a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":496.72,"endTime":499.48,"body":"lot of people respond to the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":496.72,"endTime":499.48,"body":"openness in your work and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":499.48,"endTime":503.2,"body":"immediately feel more connected"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":499.48,"endTime":503.2,"body":"to you when you meet? I feel"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":503.2,"endTime":506.71,"body":"like you, when we first met, it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":503.2,"endTime":506.71,"body":"felt like we were instant"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":506.71,"endTime":510.16,"body":"friends. And I get the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":506.71,"endTime":510.16,"body":"impression that a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":510.16,"endTime":513.4,"body":"feel that way about you. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":510.16,"endTime":513.4,"body":"that you make friends and build"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":513.4,"endTime":517.57,"body":"community sort of everywhere you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":513.4,"endTime":517.57,"body":"go. So I'm curious if you feel"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":517.9,"endTime":523.72,"body":"that your work is part of that,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":517.9,"endTime":523.72,"body":"that people already feel a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":523.72,"endTime":527.32,"body":"connection to you and it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":523.72,"endTime":527.32,"body":"closeness to you before they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":527.32,"endTime":528.64,"body":"have the first conversation?"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":529.77,"endTime":532.11,"body":"Wow, that's a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":529.77,"endTime":532.11,"body":"good question. I don't know. Um,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":533.07,"endTime":539.64,"body":"my instinct is to deflect that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":533.07,"endTime":539.64,"body":"question in general, but because"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":539.64,"endTime":544.44,"body":"I do try to be an open person"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":539.64,"endTime":544.44,"body":"and but my, but honestly, my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":544.44,"endTime":549.15,"body":"nature is, for multiple reasons."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":544.44,"endTime":549.15,"body":"I'm kind of closed. Like, I'll"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":549.15,"endTime":552.0,"body":"always be polite, and I'll"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":549.15,"endTime":552.0,"body":"always be that, but and I'll"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":552.0,"endTime":556.08,"body":"always, I think outwardly look"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":552.0,"endTime":556.08,"body":"like I'm accessible. And but I'm"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":556.08,"endTime":559.32,"body":"very I'm immensely private,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":556.08,"endTime":559.32,"body":"right? And I have like 10 best"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":559.32,"endTime":563.82,"body":"friends and there are very few"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":559.32,"endTime":563.82,"body":"people who really know me. And I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":563.82,"endTime":566.1,"body":"don't mean to sound like I mean,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":563.82,"endTime":566.1,"body":"a lot of us could probably say a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":566.1,"endTime":570.81,"body":"version of that, like we I think"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":566.1,"endTime":570.81,"body":"we all have a private side. But"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":571.47,"endTime":575.1,"body":"but yet at the same time I do"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":571.47,"endTime":575.1,"body":"challenge myself in my my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":575.13,"endTime":579.6,"body":"professional career, my choice"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":575.13,"endTime":579.6,"body":"that I made for my professional"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":579.6,"endTime":585.42,"body":"life has forced me to kind of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":579.6,"endTime":585.42,"body":"fly counter to my, to my fabric"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":585.42,"endTime":588.96,"body":"of like who I really am a little"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":585.42,"endTime":588.96,"body":"bit meaning that I live a very"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":588.96,"endTime":592.71,"body":"public Well, not very not like"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":588.96,"endTime":592.71,"body":"but a pretty public life. I'm in"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":593.01,"endTime":596.91,"body":"art and education and so there's"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":593.01,"endTime":596.91,"body":"a level of performance or being"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":596.91,"endTime":600.06,"body":"present for other people and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":596.91,"endTime":600.06,"body":"with that comes responsibility."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":600.06,"endTime":605.16,"body":"I think so I tried it like, you"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":600.06,"endTime":605.16,"body":"know, I try to be honest with"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":605.16,"endTime":609.09,"body":"what I make and I do my work is"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":605.16,"endTime":609.09,"body":"very personal. Even though I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":609.09,"endTime":612.57,"body":"said like I don't I'm not bossy"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":609.09,"endTime":612.57,"body":"my politics are there, right my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":612.57,"endTime":616.29,"body":"identity. And like my thoughts"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":612.57,"endTime":616.29,"body":"like, you know, if I read lean"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":616.29,"endTime":619.08,"body":"right or left or straight or"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":616.29,"endTime":619.08,"body":"gay, like, you know a lot about"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":619.08,"endTime":621.9,"body":"David Hillier before you ever"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":619.08,"endTime":621.9,"body":"meet him? Right? And I would say"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":621.9,"endTime":625.98,"body":"some artists, some people not as"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":621.9,"endTime":625.98,"body":"much. So I do put it out there."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":625.98,"endTime":628.62,"body":"And so yeah, people, depending"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":625.98,"endTime":628.62,"body":"on the person like to think that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":628.62,"endTime":632.64,"body":"they know me, but takes people a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":628.62,"endTime":632.64,"body":"while to get to know me really,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":632.64,"endTime":638.55,"body":"really discover, like, what a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":632.64,"endTime":638.55,"body":"mess I am. I do try to like, you"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":638.55,"endTime":644.52,"body":"know, put myself out there. And"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":638.55,"endTime":644.52,"body":"I don't know, it's, it's I think"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":644.52,"endTime":646.98,"body":"it's I'm not saying I'm brave."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":644.52,"endTime":646.98,"body":"But I think it's a brave thing"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":646.98,"endTime":650.16,"body":"to do for artists is to be"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":646.98,"endTime":650.16,"body":"vulnerable to a certain extent."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":650.25,"endTime":653.22,"body":"Sure. Well, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":650.25,"endTime":653.22,"body":"mean, it's very clear, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":653.22,"endTime":656.28,"body":"especially looking at the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":653.22,"endTime":656.28,"body":"trajectory of your work. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":656.31,"endTime":658.29,"body":"the themes that you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":656.31,"endTime":658.29,"body":"exploring, and that you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":658.29,"endTime":661.41,"body":"figuring out and becoming more"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":658.29,"endTime":661.41,"body":"comfortable with yourself is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":661.41,"endTime":665.82,"body":"evident in the work. So it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":661.41,"endTime":665.82,"body":"almost like a therapy or a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":665.82,"endTime":668.97,"body":"journal in a way if you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":665.82,"endTime":668.97,"body":"looking through."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":669.03,"endTime":672.42,"body":"Yeah, without a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":669.03,"endTime":672.42,"body":"doubt. Thank you. Therapeutic is"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":672.72,"endTime":676.89,"body":"a word that comes up a lot in my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":672.72,"endTime":676.89,"body":"work. And in the way I teach in"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":676.89,"endTime":679.8,"body":"the kind of workshops that I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":676.89,"endTime":679.8,"body":"lead either with other people"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":679.8,"endTime":682.95,"body":"like Eleanor Carucci and I are"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":679.8,"endTime":682.95,"body":"doing this like ongoing workshop"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":683.07,"endTime":684.06,"body":"called What About Love?"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":684.45,"endTime":685.02,"body":"Mm hmm."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":685.14,"endTime":688.53,"body":"Oh, my God. It's like a group"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":685.14,"endTime":688.53,"body":"hug. You know, it's like,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":688.53,"endTime":692.88,"body":"really, it's all about, like,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":688.53,"endTime":692.88,"body":"sharing and anything I'm joking,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":693.09,"endTime":695.91,"body":"but in a really great way. It's"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":693.09,"endTime":695.91,"body":"about becoming vulnerable. And,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":695.97,"endTime":701.49,"body":"you know, and finding, finding"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":695.97,"endTime":701.49,"body":"emotion and love in a kind of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":701.49,"endTime":704.55,"body":"tumultuous world we live in"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":701.49,"endTime":704.55,"body":"right now. Yeah, more and more."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":704.64,"endTime":705.72,"body":"Totally therapeutic."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":705.81,"endTime":709.29,"body":"Yeah. Wow, that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":705.81,"endTime":709.29,"body":"sounds amazing. Yeah. So I need"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":709.29,"endTime":713.97,"body":"to know more about the through"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":709.29,"endTime":713.97,"body":"the door photos, and why we"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":713.97,"endTime":715.65,"body":"haven't already made a photo"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":713.97,"endTime":715.65,"body":"book."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":717.36,"endTime":718.77,"body":"So you're"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":717.36,"endTime":718.77,"body":"talking about the pictures My"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":718.77,"endTime":720.75,"body":"father used to make of us when"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":718.77,"endTime":720.75,"body":"we're Yes,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":720.0,"endTime":724.89,"body":"yes. Yeah. Tell"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":720.0,"endTime":724.89,"body":"me about them. And how many are"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":724.89,"endTime":730.89,"body":"there? Can I see a young David"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":724.89,"endTime":730.89,"body":"Hilliard coming through the door"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":730.89,"endTime":731.94,"body":"over and over again?"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":736.55,"endTime":740.39,"body":"So my father, my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":736.55,"endTime":740.39,"body":"dad was a great guy. My dad was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":740.42,"endTime":744.14,"body":"amazing. And I make a lot of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":740.42,"endTime":744.14,"body":"work kind of honoring him. But"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":744.14,"endTime":746.66,"body":"he loves photography. He was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":744.14,"endTime":746.66,"body":"like, we grew up kind of poor,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":746.66,"endTime":750.2,"body":"lower middle class and, but"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":746.66,"endTime":750.2,"body":"there was always this kind of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":750.8,"endTime":755.84,"body":"reverence for the photographic"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":750.8,"endTime":755.84,"body":"for the photograph. And so even"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":755.84,"endTime":759.23,"body":"in ways not in a highbrow way,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":755.84,"endTime":759.23,"body":"let me be clear, but certainly"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":759.23,"endTime":763.31,"body":"in a playful somewhat even not"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":759.23,"endTime":763.31,"body":"knowing that it was that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":763.31,"endTime":766.04,"body":"therapeutic way, a way of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":763.31,"endTime":766.04,"body":"gathering a way of controlling"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":766.04,"endTime":768.62,"body":"the world that was out of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":766.04,"endTime":768.62,"body":"control. But my father would"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":768.62,"endTime":771.32,"body":"take pictures of my brother and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":768.62,"endTime":771.32,"body":"I mostly other people do, but"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":771.32,"endTime":775.46,"body":"really my brother myself,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":771.32,"endTime":775.46,"body":"unbeknownst coming through a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":775.46,"endTime":779.42,"body":"door like that we would be"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":775.46,"endTime":779.42,"body":"pounced on photographically. So"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":779.42,"endTime":781.82,"body":"there's lots of pictures of us"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":779.42,"endTime":781.82,"body":"kind of coming through sometimes"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":781.82,"endTime":784.79,"body":"coming home from school. And"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":781.82,"endTime":784.79,"body":"they're really cut the best ones"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":784.79,"endTime":787.13,"body":"are really beautiful because you"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":784.79,"endTime":787.13,"body":"can see before we even know"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":787.13,"endTime":789.95,"body":"sometimes we're being"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":787.13,"endTime":789.95,"body":"photographed the weight of the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":789.95,"endTime":791.78,"body":"world on a young kids,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":792.71,"endTime":795.29,"body":"And that's kind of in my work"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":792.71,"endTime":795.29,"body":"too. Like we talked about Boys"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":795.29,"endTime":797.6,"body":"Tethered. That's what that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":795.29,"endTime":797.6,"body":"picture is about. Right? Yeah."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":798.83,"endTime":802.04,"body":"It's it's young boy psychology"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":798.83,"endTime":802.04,"body":"and but sometimes they're"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":802.04,"endTime":804.89,"body":"playful and it's us like giving"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":802.04,"endTime":804.89,"body":"my dad the middle finger back"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":804.89,"endTime":809.18,"body":"because he caught meand"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":804.89,"endTime":809.18,"body":"beautiful pictures of us just"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":809.18,"endTime":813.08,"body":"like a divorced dad and his two"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":809.18,"endTime":813.08,"body":"kids these dogs on weekends and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":813.11,"endTime":819.23,"body":"summertime and but he recorded"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":813.11,"endTime":819.23,"body":"us constantly in his journaling."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":819.26,"endTime":823.04,"body":"Like he every day. I've said"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":819.26,"endTime":823.04,"body":"this before in interviews. From"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":823.04,"endTime":829.01,"body":"the day I was born until July"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":823.04,"endTime":829.01,"body":"28, 2015. I could tell you where"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":829.01,"endTime":834.26,"body":"I was on any given day at any"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":829.01,"endTime":834.26,"body":"given time in military father"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":834.26,"endTime":838.67,"body":"documented his life you know,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":834.26,"endTime":838.67,"body":"you know scrupulous kind of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":838.76,"endTime":843.2,"body":"meticulous notes been very tiny,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":838.76,"endTime":843.2,"body":"beautiful penmanship on little"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":843.2,"endTime":846.32,"body":"calendars like from a chemical"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":843.2,"endTime":846.32,"body":"company he used to work for"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":846.32,"endTime":851.12,"body":"they're like yearly tracking. He"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":846.32,"endTime":851.12,"body":"documented everywhere. We were"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":851.15,"endTime":854.75,"body":"not in a waxy poetic way, but it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":851.15,"endTime":854.75,"body":"was just like, oh, wait 100"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":854.78,"endTime":859.04,"body":"hours. David does the Baba ba"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":854.78,"endTime":859.04,"body":"Scott does that. And so why do"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":859.04,"endTime":864.05,"body":"you think that's, you know?"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":859.04,"endTime":864.05,"body":"That's, that's the question,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":864.05,"endTime":867.77,"body":"right? I don't think my father"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":864.05,"endTime":867.77,"body":"ever went back and occasionally"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":867.77,"endTime":870.86,"body":"we would go back because we were"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":867.77,"endTime":870.86,"body":"like, we needed to fact check"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":870.86,"endTime":877.61,"body":"something or like I've used it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":870.86,"endTime":877.61,"body":"for a wide array of things. My"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":877.61,"endTime":882.89,"body":"last blah, blah, blah. So I've"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":877.61,"endTime":882.89,"body":"lost that when my father had his"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":882.89,"endTime":886.85,"body":"like cardiac event and went into"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":882.89,"endTime":886.85,"body":"a nursing home and gone was that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":886.85,"endTime":891.05,"body":"great gift he gave us of like,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":886.85,"endTime":891.05,"body":"knowing where we were for like"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":891.08,"endTime":891.74,"body":"decades,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":891.84,"endTime":894.39,"body":"You have said"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":891.84,"endTime":894.39,"body":"that he suffered from dementia"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":894.54,"endTime":897.66,"body":"near the end. That must have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":894.54,"endTime":897.66,"body":"been really hard for someone who"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":898.11,"endTime":901.92,"body":"kept such a tight grip on real"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":898.11,"endTime":901.92,"body":"time in reality?"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":904.96,"endTime":909.55,"body":"Yeah, it was,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":904.96,"endTime":909.55,"body":"you know, he. . . My dad was my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":909.55,"endTime":913.48,"body":"dad was a kind of control freak"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":909.55,"endTime":913.48,"body":"in a weird way. Like he wanted"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":913.48,"endTime":917.14,"body":"to have the world kind of at"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":913.48,"endTime":917.14,"body":"right angles and everything"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":917.14,"endTime":922.3,"body":"where it was and he was very"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":917.14,"endTime":922.3,"body":"cerebral, never was highly"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":922.3,"endTime":925.33,"body":"educated like that was he always"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":922.3,"endTime":925.33,"body":"carried a sense of shame about"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":925.33,"endTime":928.66,"body":"that? Never, I don't think he"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":925.33,"endTime":928.66,"body":"ever finished high school, I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":928.66,"endTime":931.87,"body":"kind of know he didn't, we never"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":928.66,"endTime":931.87,"body":"talked about it. He was also"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":931.87,"endTime":934.84,"body":"brilliant. My father was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":931.87,"endTime":934.84,"body":"self-taught. You know, when I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":934.84,"endTime":939.13,"body":"was when we were kids, he helped"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":934.84,"endTime":939.13,"body":"us with our book reports and was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":939.13,"endTime":944.05,"body":"interested in existentialism in"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":939.13,"endTime":944.05,"body":"politics and was as left leaning"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":944.05,"endTime":947.41,"body":"as you could like, question"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":944.05,"endTime":947.41,"body":"church and state and you know,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":947.41,"endTime":949.99,"body":"with that, because there was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":947.41,"endTime":949.99,"body":"damage to like, we would my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":949.99,"endTime":952.39,"body":"brother and I were trained not"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":949.99,"endTime":952.39,"body":"to join anything or believe in"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":952.39,"endTime":957.01,"body":"any like, we were like, I'll"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":952.39,"endTime":957.01,"body":"save that for my therapist's"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":957.01,"endTime":961.63,"body":"couch. But my dad had a lot of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":957.01,"endTime":961.63,"body":"like, really strong beliefs and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":961.87,"endTime":966.1,"body":"ways that he wanted us to think"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":961.87,"endTime":966.1,"body":"and wanted a lot of exerted a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":966.1,"endTime":970.9,"body":"lot of control on the world."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":966.1,"endTime":970.9,"body":"When and your question was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":970.9,"endTime":975.19,"body":"really good, why, like, why did"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":970.9,"endTime":975.19,"body":"he do so many of the things, and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":975.19,"endTime":978.37,"body":"it was very sad after he passed,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":975.19,"endTime":978.37,"body":"my brother and I were taxed with"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":978.91,"endTime":982.03,"body":"going through the kind of stuff"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":978.91,"endTime":982.03,"body":"the rubble of his life and it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":982.03,"endTime":985.42,"body":"was just like crazy, not to the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":982.03,"endTime":985.42,"body":"point of hoarding, but like,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":985.69,"endTime":990.13,"body":"copious amounts of ephemera -"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":985.69,"endTime":990.13,"body":"books with marginalia that you"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":990.13,"endTime":993.91,"body":"wouldn't believe and weird notes"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":990.13,"endTime":993.91,"body":"we found in a pocket when he was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":993.91,"endTime":998.32,"body":"losing his, his memory, we"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":993.91,"endTime":998.32,"body":"discovered this, what he cut"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":998.32,"endTime":1000.96,"body":"into the envelopes had crib"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":998.32,"endTime":1000.96,"body":"notes on it, it was all the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1000.96,"endTime":1004.47,"body":"things he was afraid of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1000.96,"endTime":1004.47,"body":"forgetting. I'll send you that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1004.47,"endTime":1005.46,"body":"photograph as well."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1005.49,"endTime":1006.24,"body":"Yeah, please."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1006.24,"endTime":1010.11,"body":"It's called Crib Notes. And it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1006.24,"endTime":1010.11,"body":"was my father. Like, he was so"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1010.11,"endTime":1012.48,"body":"proud. He had a lot of pride. He"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1010.11,"endTime":1012.48,"body":"didn't want people to know, he"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1012.48,"endTime":1016.77,"body":"was forgetting things. And so"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1012.48,"endTime":1016.77,"body":"he, he loved the written word he"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1016.77,"endTime":1020.88,"body":"loved, he loved words, and he"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1016.77,"endTime":1020.88,"body":"loved self improvement. And I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1020.88,"endTime":1023.94,"body":"would go to visit him and it'd"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1020.88,"endTime":1023.94,"body":"be sticky, sticky notes on his"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1023.94,"endTime":1026.91,"body":"fingers and whiteout and his"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1023.94,"endTime":1026.91,"body":"fingernails. And he was a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1026.91,"endTime":1028.47,"body":"closeted academic."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1029.29,"endTime":1031.48,"body":"When he passed"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1029.29,"endTime":1031.48,"body":"in April, there was a Boston"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1031.48,"endTime":1036.28,"body":"Globe article that I read, then,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1031.48,"endTime":1036.28,"body":"and then I read it again, in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1036.28,"endTime":1039.25,"body":"prepping for this, and you said"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1036.28,"endTime":1039.25,"body":"that he was the great love of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1039.25,"endTime":1045.79,"body":"your life. And I bawled both"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1039.25,"endTime":1045.79,"body":"times, reading that. So the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1045.79,"endTime":1048.1,"body":"relationship that you've had"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1045.79,"endTime":1048.1,"body":"with your father's always"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1048.1,"endTime":1051.07,"body":"permeated your work, and he was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1048.1,"endTime":1051.07,"body":"a frequent subject and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1051.07,"endTime":1054.31,"body":"collaborator all the way from"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1051.07,"endTime":1054.31,"body":"your earliest work until he"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1054.31,"endTime":1058.45,"body":"passed. And it's interesting,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1054.31,"endTime":1058.45,"body":"because the two of you are so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1058.45,"endTime":1063.61,"body":"different. But you're obviously"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1058.45,"endTime":1063.61,"body":"so connected. And are you able"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1063.61,"endTime":1067.54,"body":"to step back from the images"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1063.61,"endTime":1067.54,"body":"with your father and look at"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1067.54,"endTime":1071.47,"body":"them as a collective whole? Or?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1067.54,"endTime":1071.47,"body":"And do you see the evolution of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1071.47,"endTime":1074.95,"body":"your relationship in them? Or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1071.47,"endTime":1074.95,"body":"did they tell a different story"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1074.95,"endTime":1075.43,"body":"to you?"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1075.81,"endTime":1078.87,"body":"Yeah, my dad, my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1075.81,"endTime":1078.87,"body":"dad and I are very different"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1078.87,"endTime":1083.67,"body":"people, right? So many ways. But"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1078.87,"endTime":1083.67,"body":"one of the things about us is"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1083.67,"endTime":1086.94,"body":"that my father, like I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1083.67,"endTime":1086.94,"body":"mentioned, I think he understood"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1086.94,"endTime":1089.67,"body":"having a son who was a bit"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1086.94,"endTime":1089.67,"body":"different, right? Like, I was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1089.82,"endTime":1092.31,"body":"not like the other boys that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1089.82,"endTime":1092.31,"body":"from a very early age, it was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1092.31,"endTime":1096.09,"body":"obvious that I was queer on some"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1092.31,"endTime":1096.09,"body":"level, right? I was just not in"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1096.09,"endTime":1099.6,"body":"sync with everyone else. Right."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1096.09,"endTime":1099.6,"body":"And my dad was my champion. He,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1099.9,"endTime":1102.42,"body":"I mean, not to the point, I have"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1099.9,"endTime":1102.42,"body":"to be careful. Like he didn't"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1102.42,"endTime":1105.45,"body":"like say, son, I think you're"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1102.42,"endTime":1105.45,"body":"different. And here's like this,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1105.78,"endTime":1110.16,"body":"but he just kind of, let me be"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1105.78,"endTime":1110.16,"body":"who I was, right? And if I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1110.16,"endTime":1113.04,"body":"didn't want to, like do what my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1110.16,"endTime":1113.04,"body":"brother was doing on sports, and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1113.04,"endTime":1117.39,"body":"this and that, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1113.04,"endTime":1117.39,"body":"he I wanted to, you know, I was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1117.39,"endTime":1120.48,"body":"interested in miniatures and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1117.39,"endTime":1120.48,"body":"doll houses, and he would like,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1120.48,"endTime":1123.51,"body":"take me shopping for things he"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1120.48,"endTime":1123.51,"body":"would build me these beautiful"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1123.75,"endTime":1128.64,"body":"cardboard, because we were poor,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1123.75,"endTime":1128.64,"body":"like really like, and I would go"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1128.64,"endTime":1131.25,"body":"away for a week because I would"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1128.64,"endTime":1131.25,"body":"live with my mother because they"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1131.25,"endTime":1134.1,"body":"were divorced. I'd come back and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1131.25,"endTime":1134.1,"body":"my father would have built me a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1134.43,"endTime":1140.07,"body":"cardboard dollhouse. From the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1134.43,"endTime":1140.07,"body":"chemical company that he would"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1140.07,"endTime":1144.75,"body":"swipe. And there would be like"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1140.07,"endTime":1144.75,"body":"cardboard and duct tape and but"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1144.75,"endTime":1147.57,"body":"these were artful. Like, I am"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1144.75,"endTime":1147.57,"body":"not kidding, Jennifer, like, you"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1147.57,"endTime":1149.43,"body":"should see there's more pictures"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1147.57,"endTime":1149.43,"body":"I have to send you."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1149.82,"endTime":1150.63,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1150.81,"endTime":1152.88,"body":"But I would come"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1150.81,"endTime":1152.88,"body":"home and he built me these"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1152.88,"endTime":1156.78,"body":"little cardboard houses, one"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1152.88,"endTime":1156.78,"body":"inch to a foot scale, with"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1156.78,"endTime":1160.83,"body":"turrets and bay windows and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1156.78,"endTime":1160.83,"body":"working elevators and he was a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1160.83,"endTime":1165.96,"body":"frickin artist. But to that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1160.83,"endTime":1165.96,"body":"point, so he knew that I was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1165.96,"endTime":1168.78,"body":"different. But my dad also was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1165.96,"endTime":1168.78,"body":"out of step with society to a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1168.78,"endTime":1171.99,"body":"certain extent because although"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1168.78,"endTime":1171.99,"body":"he was outwardly, there's kind"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1171.99,"endTime":1176.25,"body":"of rough and tumble Navy guy,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1171.99,"endTime":1176.25,"body":"chemical worker. He also like"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1176.25,"endTime":1179.46,"body":"had a very sensitive side and,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1176.25,"endTime":1179.46,"body":"you know, wanted to be something"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1179.46,"endTime":1181.53,"body":"he wasn't afforded the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1179.46,"endTime":1181.53,"body":"opportunities."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1181.53,"endTime":1183.36,"body":"Right. He was a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1181.53,"endTime":1183.36,"body":"scholar and an artist."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1184.14,"endTime":1186.6,"body":"So he got what"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1184.14,"endTime":1186.6,"body":"it was like to feel different."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1186.6,"endTime":1190.62,"body":"And he allowed my brother to be"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1186.6,"endTime":1190.62,"body":"who we were, who we are, how"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1190.62,"endTime":1194.34,"body":"we're and are. And that was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1190.62,"endTime":1194.34,"body":"great. And then we were"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1194.34,"endTime":1198.57,"body":"photographing together. And so"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1194.34,"endTime":1198.57,"body":"his love of photography became"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1198.57,"endTime":1203.73,"body":"my love of photography. In some"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1198.57,"endTime":1203.73,"body":"of his habits, his visual habits"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1203.82,"endTime":1208.2,"body":"became my visual habits. And we"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1203.82,"endTime":1208.2,"body":"just collaborated because he was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1208.23,"endTime":1211.47,"body":"my best friend. He was like"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1208.23,"endTime":1211.47,"body":"everything to me. He was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1211.47,"endTime":1214.62,"body":"interesting photographically, he"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1211.47,"endTime":1214.62,"body":"put it out there. He was like,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1214.68,"endTime":1217.44,"body":"as my father would say, quote,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1214.68,"endTime":1217.44,"body":"unquote, he was a photo slut."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1219.84,"endTime":1223.08,"body":"For the camera, like he didn't"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1219.84,"endTime":1223.08,"body":"care, he put on a Hawaiian shirt"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1223.08,"endTime":1227.25,"body":"and do this and that and but to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1223.08,"endTime":1227.25,"body":"that point, in a very serious"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1227.25,"endTime":1233.4,"body":"note, with time I realized that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1227.25,"endTime":1233.4,"body":"I needed to think of something"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1233.4,"endTime":1238.05,"body":"my father wasn't thinking about,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1233.4,"endTime":1238.05,"body":"was that I was in charge of his"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1238.83,"endTime":1242.4,"body":"photographic legacy, if you"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1238.83,"endTime":1242.4,"body":"will, I didn't want to cast him"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1242.4,"endTime":1245.4,"body":"as like just a one-liner. And so"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1242.4,"endTime":1245.4,"body":"I realized that I was not"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1245.4,"endTime":1248.7,"body":"showing things about him. I was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1245.4,"endTime":1248.7,"body":"making a lot of jokes, and I had"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1248.7,"endTime":1251.7,"body":"the veneer of him down. But I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1248.7,"endTime":1251.7,"body":"wasn't really getting to the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1251.7,"endTime":1255.45,"body":"sense of privacy and shame and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1251.7,"endTime":1255.45,"body":"longing and all these other"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1255.45,"endTime":1259.83,"body":"things that I over time, snuck"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1255.45,"endTime":1259.83,"body":"up on and he trusted me enough"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1259.83,"endTime":1262.95,"body":"and we over time, you can see my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1259.83,"endTime":1262.95,"body":"work, evolve, start starting"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1262.95,"endTime":1267.96,"body":"around 1999. Okay, when I made a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1262.95,"endTime":1267.96,"body":"picture called dad, which was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1267.96,"endTime":1271.44,"body":"him where I took away the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1267.96,"endTime":1271.44,"body":"Hawaiian shirts and the some of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1271.44,"endTime":1275.34,"body":"the trappings, like the kind of,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1271.44,"endTime":1275.34,"body":"I don't know, they were kind of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1275.34,"endTime":1278.67,"body":"easy fish in a barrel kind of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1275.34,"endTime":1278.67,"body":"pictures, good ones, but like,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1278.97,"endTime":1283.08,"body":"easy and repetitive to a certain"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1278.97,"endTime":1283.08,"body":"extent. And so I started to show"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1283.08,"endTime":1287.58,"body":"other sides of him that to your"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1283.08,"endTime":1287.58,"body":"point, parallels a relationship,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1287.58,"endTime":1290.73,"body":"a father-son relationship, but"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1287.58,"endTime":1290.73,"body":"also a photographic relationship"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1290.88,"endTime":1295.8,"body":"becoming more complex and more"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1290.88,"endTime":1295.8,"body":"trusting in a more nuanced and,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1296.67,"endTime":1299.04,"body":"and right up to the day he died."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1296.67,"endTime":1299.04,"body":"We were collaborating right up"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1299.04,"endTime":1303.24,"body":"to the day he died. He wanted me"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1299.04,"endTime":1303.24,"body":"to photograph he scripted, his"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1303.24,"endTime":1306.96,"body":"casket photograph. He knew what"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1303.24,"endTime":1306.96,"body":"he wanted. He told me what he"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1306.96,"endTime":1307.47,"body":"wanted."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1307.74,"endTime":1310.05,"body":"Wow. What did he want?"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1310.29,"endTime":1317.13,"body":"He wanted to be, initially he"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1310.29,"endTime":1317.13,"body":"wanted to be embalmed. Okay, you"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1317.13,"endTime":1320.07,"body":"know, the casket that we picked"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1317.13,"endTime":1320.07,"body":"out together, he wanted to be"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1320.07,"endTime":1323.88,"body":"holding the first edition of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1320.07,"endTime":1323.88,"body":"Playboy magazine. I think he was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1323.88,"endTime":1325.5,"body":"half kidding, like, cuz I just"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1323.88,"endTime":1325.5,"body":"like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1326.13,"endTime":1328.68,"body":"In one of the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1326.13,"endTime":1328.68,"body":"first photos you took of him,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1328.68,"endTime":1330.15,"body":"he's holding the first issue of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1328.68,"endTime":1330.15,"body":"Playboy."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1331.2,"endTime":1332.67,"body":"I made that in"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1331.2,"endTime":1332.67,"body":"graduate school."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1332.76,"endTime":1334.68,"body":"Okay, so this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1332.76,"endTime":1334.68,"body":"would be bookending."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1334.69,"endTime":1337.06,"body":"Exactly, and it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1334.69,"endTime":1337.06,"body":"would have been but in the end,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1337.09,"endTime":1340.33,"body":"it got bookended in a very"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1337.09,"endTime":1340.33,"body":"different way. So because we had"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1340.36,"endTime":1344.17,"body":"agreed that instead he would be"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1340.36,"endTime":1344.17,"body":"holding Walden, Henry David"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1344.17,"endTime":1347.68,"body":"Thoreau's Walden. And there"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1344.17,"endTime":1347.68,"body":"would be pine needles in his"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1347.68,"endTime":1349.87,"body":"pocket. And like we had the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1347.68,"endTime":1349.87,"body":"whole thing was going to be"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1349.87,"endTime":1353.26,"body":"beautiful. It was freaking"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1349.87,"endTime":1353.26,"body":"incredible picture of my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1353.26,"endTime":1357.49,"body":"father's death picture. And it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1353.26,"endTime":1357.49,"body":"was going to be our last"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1357.49,"endTime":1360.1,"body":"collaboration, it was going to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1357.49,"endTime":1360.1,"body":"be something."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1360.87,"endTime":1364.71,"body":"But instead, he went into the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1360.87,"endTime":1364.71,"body":"nursing home and all this stuff"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1364.71,"endTime":1370.71,"body":"happened. In the day on Good"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1364.71,"endTime":1370.71,"body":"Friday, around Easter, my father"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1370.74,"endTime":1374.55,"body":"succumbed. And just after three"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1370.74,"endTime":1374.55,"body":"days of diagnosis of COVID, he"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1374.55,"endTime":1379.17,"body":"died. Wow. And it happened very"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1374.55,"endTime":1379.17,"body":"quickly. It was merciful in that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1379.17,"endTime":1381.81,"body":"he had a lot of health issues."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1379.17,"endTime":1381.81,"body":"And it took him painlessly and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1381.81,"endTime":1385.44,"body":"quickly. Super sad. That's"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1381.81,"endTime":1385.44,"body":"another story. But like, you"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1385.44,"endTime":1388.26,"body":"know, I got to talk to him on"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1385.44,"endTime":1388.26,"body":"the phone, got to talk at him."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1388.71,"endTime":1394.23,"body":"Right. He heard me and he had to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1388.71,"endTime":1394.23,"body":"be cremated, because of COVID."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1394.23,"endTime":1397.89,"body":"And it was the holiday. They"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1394.23,"endTime":1397.89,"body":"weren't digging holes in the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1397.89,"endTime":1403.53,"body":"ground. And people couldn't"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1397.89,"endTime":1403.53,"body":"gather. Right? So why go through"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1403.53,"endTime":1407.13,"body":"all of that. And so instead - he"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1403.53,"endTime":1407.13,"body":"never wanted to be cremated. He"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1407.13,"endTime":1410.55,"body":"didn't want to be in a vase,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1407.13,"endTime":1410.55,"body":"quote, unquote. Yeah. So I've"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1410.55,"endTime":1413.88,"body":"got him a box, that's a stone it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1410.55,"endTime":1413.88,"body":"looks more like a small casket."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1414.6,"endTime":1420.6,"body":"And that was the last picture."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1414.6,"endTime":1420.6,"body":"So instead of making the picture"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1420.6,"endTime":1423.87,"body":"I wanted to make, I made and I'm"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1420.6,"endTime":1423.87,"body":"still making because he still"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1423.87,"endTime":1426.96,"body":"has not been inturred. Like, I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1423.87,"endTime":1426.96,"body":"still have him in my living"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1426.96,"endTime":1432.63,"body":"room. I made a series of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1426.96,"endTime":1432.63,"body":"pictures where I took his, his"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1432.63,"endTime":1437.28,"body":"cremation remains to different"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1432.63,"endTime":1437.28,"body":"locations that he loved. And"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1437.28,"endTime":1440.13,"body":"I've made landscape pictures and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1437.28,"endTime":1440.13,"body":"my brother would be with me for"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1440.13,"endTime":1443.76,"body":"many of them. And, and I got a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1440.13,"endTime":1443.76,"body":"little table on Craigslist,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1443.76,"endTime":1446.13,"body":"which is this little oak table"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1443.76,"endTime":1446.13,"body":"that there's a whole story about"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1446.13,"endTime":1450.3,"body":"the table that I chose. But and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1446.13,"endTime":1450.3,"body":"so it sits at Walden Pond that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1450.3,"endTime":1452.7,"body":"he loved. It sits on a mountain"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1450.3,"endTime":1452.7,"body":"that he loves. It's Maine, New"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1452.7,"endTime":1457.59,"body":"Hampshire, the Concord River. I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1452.7,"endTime":1457.59,"body":"have one that I want to take in"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1457.59,"endTime":1462.6,"body":"his favorite diner in Lowell,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1457.59,"endTime":1462.6,"body":"Massachusetts. Bringing funerary"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1462.6,"endTime":1467.1,"body":"remains into a diner, so that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1462.6,"endTime":1467.1,"body":"might involve breaking the law."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1468.12,"endTime":1470.52,"body":"I don't know but it my dad would"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1468.12,"endTime":1470.52,"body":"have liked that."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1470.58,"endTime":1473.07,"body":"I was gonna say I think your dad"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1470.58,"endTime":1473.07,"body":"would have loved that. Do you"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1473.07,"endTime":1475.23,"body":"feel like you've been able to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1473.07,"endTime":1475.23,"body":"make peace with not being able"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1475.23,"endTime":1477.48,"body":"to make that final collaborative"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1475.23,"endTime":1477.48,"body":"photo?"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1477.51,"endTime":1480.03,"body":"Yeah, without a doubt. Like when"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1477.51,"endTime":1480.03,"body":"I described that picture it's"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1480.03,"endTime":1483.09,"body":"probably way better than it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1480.03,"endTime":1483.09,"body":"would have been in real life. I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1483.09,"endTime":1485.04,"body":"don't know if I would have"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1483.09,"endTime":1485.04,"body":"really liked looking at a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1485.04,"endTime":1488.94,"body":"picture of my father's waxy. . ."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1485.04,"endTime":1488.94,"body":"See, I'm not a big fan of the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1488.94,"endTime":1492.54,"body":"embalming of bodies anyway,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1488.94,"endTime":1492.54,"body":"right and so to have him brought"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1492.54,"endTime":1495.66,"body":"down to ash which he loved the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1492.54,"endTime":1495.66,"body":"earth so much - to see him like"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1495.66,"endTime":1498.54,"body":"that in this box and, and they"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1495.66,"endTime":1498.54,"body":"also give you the like, the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1498.54,"endTime":1502.65,"body":"cremation swag like I have the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1498.54,"endTime":1502.65,"body":"smaller version box. They gave"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1502.65,"endTime":1504.03,"body":"me a piece of him to have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1505.44,"endTime":1506.31,"body":"I had no idea."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1506.52,"endTime":1506.97,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1506.97,"endTime":1510.33,"body":"So you can have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1506.97,"endTime":1510.33,"body":"like, you know, a travel version"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1510.0,"endTime":1512.37,"body":"Exactly, and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1510.0,"endTime":1512.37,"body":"because I loved miniatures so"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1512.37,"endTime":1516.27,"body":"much, my friend tressa, who"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1512.37,"endTime":1516.27,"body":"lives in New York, she made me a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1516.27,"endTime":1519.75,"body":"one inch to a foot like she made"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1516.27,"endTime":1519.75,"body":"me an even smaller sculptural"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1519.75,"endTime":1524.61,"body":"version. Three sizes of them"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1519.75,"endTime":1524.61,"body":"kind of like matryoshka dolls."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1526.26,"endTime":1529.26,"body":"So my dad's in different scales"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1526.26,"endTime":1529.26,"body":"right now. I mean, the smallest"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1529.26,"endTime":1534.09,"body":"one does not have him inside of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1529.26,"endTime":1534.09,"body":"it. But I digress. Sorry, what?"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1534.12,"endTime":1538.5,"body":"Oh, the picture that was really"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1534.12,"endTime":1538.5,"body":"great was were these landscape"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1538.5,"endTime":1542.64,"body":"photographs that became"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1538.5,"endTime":1542.64,"body":"serendipitous, serendipitous in"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1542.64,"endTime":1546.27,"body":"that that's not how we wanted"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1542.64,"endTime":1546.27,"body":"things to go. And that's what's"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1546.27,"endTime":1549.69,"body":"so great about art and I think"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1546.27,"endTime":1549.69,"body":"my best pictures and Boys"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1549.69,"endTime":1552.51,"body":"Tethered that photograph we"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1549.69,"endTime":1552.51,"body":"referenced earlier had that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1552.51,"endTime":1556.14,"body":"foggy day, which was a gift of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1552.51,"endTime":1556.14,"body":"weather like that metaphor. Fog"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1556.14,"endTime":1560.07,"body":"is so amazing, right? I need a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1556.14,"endTime":1560.07,"body":"foggy day for one of these with"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1560.07,"endTime":1566.07,"body":"my dad. So the pictures are"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1560.07,"endTime":1566.07,"body":"really kind of beautiful. They"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1566.07,"endTime":1569.31,"body":"are, they become these kind of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1566.07,"endTime":1569.31,"body":"travel photographs, his last"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1569.31,"endTime":1573.69,"body":"World Tour, if you will, a very"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1569.31,"endTime":1573.69,"body":"humble tour because my dad never"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1573.69,"endTime":1579.12,"body":"really traveled very much. He"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1573.69,"endTime":1579.12,"body":"loved you know, you know, he"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1579.12,"endTime":1582.99,"body":"really loved being within just a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1579.12,"endTime":1582.99,"body":"few miles radius of downtown"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1582.99,"endTime":1583.53,"body":"Lowell."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1584.83,"endTime":1587.83,"body":"And he loved"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1584.83,"endTime":1587.83,"body":"Transcendentalism and Thoreau"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1587.83,"endTime":1593.68,"body":"and Walden, and so it him in the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1587.83,"endTime":1593.68,"body":"ash form. . . like you said, it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1593.68,"endTime":1594.49,"body":"is kind of beautiful."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1594.82,"endTime":1596.5,"body":"Yeah. And I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1594.82,"endTime":1596.5,"body":"don't I don't talk about it, in"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1596.5,"endTime":1598.57,"body":"fact, I think is the first time"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1596.5,"endTime":1598.57,"body":"I actually thought about the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1598.57,"endTime":1602.86,"body":"ashy part of him, but it's kind"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1598.57,"endTime":1602.86,"body":"of great. And, and also, I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1602.86,"endTime":1606.28,"body":"should say that his headstone,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1602.86,"endTime":1606.28,"body":"he still has a cemetery plot at"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1606.28,"endTime":1610.69,"body":"the historical cemetery, it's a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1606.28,"endTime":1610.69,"body":"really beautiful spot has to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1610.69,"endTime":1613.75,"body":"swallows at the top of the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1610.69,"endTime":1613.75,"body":"grave, because he had those"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1613.75,"endTime":1618.46,"body":"tattoos, as do I, and at the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1613.75,"endTime":1618.46,"body":"bottom of his headstone, it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1618.46,"endTime":1623.53,"body":"says, There's a quote, a little"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1618.46,"endTime":1623.53,"body":"part of Thoreau language, it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1623.53,"endTime":1627.19,"body":"says, \"Heaven is under our feet"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1623.53,"endTime":1627.19,"body":"as well as over our heads.\""},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1627.61,"endTime":1628.6,"body":"That's amazing,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1629.23,"endTime":1631.54,"body":"So but he did"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1629.23,"endTime":1631.54,"body":"all of that knowing that it was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1631.54,"endTime":1634.75,"body":"going to be emblazoned on film."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1636.46,"endTime":1641.62,"body":"So I mean, he's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1636.46,"endTime":1641.62,"body":"lived most of his life knowing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1641.71,"endTime":1645.7,"body":"that he every step of it would"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1641.71,"endTime":1645.7,"body":"be documented, which is really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1645.7,"endTime":1649.75,"body":"interesting, if you think about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1645.7,"endTime":1649.75,"body":"how he took these meticulous"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1649.75,"endTime":1652.93,"body":"notes about everything that was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1649.75,"endTime":1652.93,"body":"happening in his life. And here"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1652.93,"endTime":1656.44,"body":"you are photographing that, so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1652.93,"endTime":1656.44,"body":"you're kind of, you know, were"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1657.25,"endTime":1658.78,"body":"bouncing off of each other."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1659.83,"endTime":1661.51,"body":"Like I returned"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1659.83,"endTime":1661.51,"body":"the favor, if you will."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1661.54,"endTime":1662.68,"body":"Yes, exactly."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1663.77,"endTime":1665.63,"body":"I feel good"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1663.77,"endTime":1665.63,"body":"about the photographic part. I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1665.63,"endTime":1670.85,"body":"do wonder, like, his calendars"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1665.63,"endTime":1670.85,"body":"and all those like, I, I have,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1670.88,"endTime":1673.85,"body":"if something keeps me awake at"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1670.88,"endTime":1673.85,"body":"night, sometimes it's that like,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1673.85,"endTime":1677.12,"body":"what do I do with all of this,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1673.85,"endTime":1677.12,"body":"because I'm still traumatized by"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1677.12,"endTime":1681.71,"body":"my father's death, obviously, I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1677.12,"endTime":1681.71,"body":"get teary. But I do carry the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1681.71,"endTime":1685.85,"body":"responsibility of trying to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1681.71,"endTime":1685.85,"body":"squeeze out as much meaning out"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1685.85,"endTime":1689.03,"body":"of all this stuff I've been left"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1685.85,"endTime":1689.03,"body":"with, I still have a bag in my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1689.03,"endTime":1693.17,"body":"garage. That the day my father"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1689.03,"endTime":1693.17,"body":"day before my father died, I was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1693.17,"endTime":1696.77,"body":"allowed to go into the nursing"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1693.17,"endTime":1696.77,"body":"home, like in a hazmat suit, and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1696.77,"endTime":1700.31,"body":"empty out his stuff. And I just"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1696.77,"endTime":1700.31,"body":"through because of COVID and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1700.31,"endTime":1704.69,"body":"grief, I just filled this like"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1700.31,"endTime":1704.69,"body":"Angry trash bag, I call it and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1704.69,"endTime":1709.25,"body":"filled it. And it stayed in my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1704.69,"endTime":1709.25,"body":"garage because it was COVID."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1709.52,"endTime":1717.32,"body":"Right, and it needed to just"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1709.52,"endTime":1717.32,"body":"die. I'm not an expert, but the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1717.32,"endTime":1718.55,"body":"COVID needed to die."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1718.61,"endTime":1720.8,"body":"Right? If you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1718.61,"endTime":1720.8,"body":"put something in a trash bag and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1720.8,"endTime":1722.75,"body":"leave it in your garage, it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1720.8,"endTime":1722.75,"body":"kills the COVID."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1722.0,"endTime":1724.91,"body":"The COVID is"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1722.0,"endTime":1724.91,"body":"dead, but like I still can't"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1724.91,"endTime":1727.88,"body":"open that bag, because in there"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1724.91,"endTime":1727.88,"body":"is going to be the grizzly"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1728.42,"endTime":1732.47,"body":"remains of the last vestiges of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1728.42,"endTime":1732.47,"body":"stuff my father had by his bed,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1732.47,"endTime":1735.62,"body":"and it's going to be like a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1732.47,"endTime":1735.62,"body":"weird, because as he was losing"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1735.62,"endTime":1740.21,"body":"his memory, he was like it was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1735.62,"endTime":1740.21,"body":"scribbly. And really painfully"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1740.21,"endTime":1744.53,"body":"sad to see. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1740.21,"endTime":1744.53,"body":"I'm talking a lot you can edit"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1744.53,"endTime":1746.21,"body":"this after. . ."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1746.21,"endTime":1747.02,"body":"I wouldn't dare!"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1747.0,"endTime":1749.94,"body":"In the nursing"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1747.0,"endTime":1749.94,"body":"home, there was this, there is"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1749.94,"endTime":1753.93,"body":"this great, great nurse Sue"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1749.94,"endTime":1753.93,"body":"Ellen, who's about my age, and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1753.93,"endTime":1756.27,"body":"was very kind and loved my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1753.93,"endTime":1756.27,"body":"father and showed him a lot of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1756.27,"endTime":1760.56,"body":"kindness. But she recommended"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1756.27,"endTime":1760.56,"body":"along with it, maybe some other"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1760.56,"endTime":1762.99,"body":"people too, that my father,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1760.56,"endTime":1762.99,"body":"because he was losing his memory"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1763.47,"endTime":1766.02,"body":"and he loved photography, that I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1763.47,"endTime":1766.02,"body":"would take these little"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1766.02,"endTime":1767.91,"body":"Polaroids when I would go to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1766.02,"endTime":1767.91,"body":"visit."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1768.41,"endTime":1771.41,"body":"Okay, and leave"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1768.41,"endTime":1771.41,"body":"him with him. Yeah, and I would"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1771.41,"endTime":1774.62,"body":"write the date on it, because he"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1771.41,"endTime":1774.62,"body":"liked dates. I would write like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1774.62,"endTime":1777.32,"body":"what it was a stupid note. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1774.62,"endTime":1777.32,"body":"sometimes with a sharpie, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1777.32,"endTime":1781.16,"body":"would point things and put like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1777.32,"endTime":1781.16,"body":"cat ears on it. And then we had"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1781.16,"endTime":1784.01,"body":"this bulletin board and I could"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1781.16,"endTime":1784.01,"body":"send you pictures of that, but"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1784.01,"endTime":1787.1,"body":"it was like loaded with so I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1784.01,"endTime":1787.1,"body":"have a boatload of these very"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1787.1,"endTime":1790.91,"body":"small Polaroids that are really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1787.1,"endTime":1790.91,"body":"just about keeping Ray Hilliard"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1790.91,"endTime":1792.14,"body":"aloat, right?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1792.2,"endTime":1792.68,"body":"Yeah. . ."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1792.92,"endTime":1794.3,"body":"They're"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1792.92,"endTime":1794.3,"body":"heartbreaking. It's a lot of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1794.3,"endTime":1797.21,"body":"selfies of the two of us and my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1794.3,"endTime":1797.21,"body":"father eating a jelly doughnut"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1798.14,"endTime":1801.2,"body":"or looking kind of confused."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1798.14,"endTime":1801.2,"body":"Some of them are hard to look"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1801.2,"endTime":1806.12,"body":"at. But I think in a book, just,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1801.2,"endTime":1806.12,"body":"if I knew a publisher. . ."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1806.12,"endTime":1808.1,"body":"I was just gonna"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1806.12,"endTime":1808.1,"body":"say, \"When are we doing the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1808.1,"endTime":1810.59,"body":"book?\" Are we calling it crib"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1808.1,"endTime":1810.59,"body":"notes?"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1812.03,"endTime":1815.06,"body":"Yeah, no, it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1812.03,"endTime":1815.06,"body":"really, I think that's gonna be"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1815.09,"endTime":1817.31,"body":"that's a big thing. But it could"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1815.09,"endTime":1817.31,"body":"be just a book of these"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1817.31,"endTime":1820.16,"body":"Polaroids because they're"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1817.31,"endTime":1820.16,"body":"really, and I think they're so"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1820.16,"endTime":1823.82,"body":"universally poignant for people"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1820.16,"endTime":1823.82,"body":"who have lost anyone to dementia"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1823.82,"endTime":1827.03,"body":"and Alzheimer's, or just in"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1823.82,"endTime":1827.03,"body":"general losing a parent, it's so"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1827.03,"endTime":1833.12,"body":"hard, but to see me just kind of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1827.03,"endTime":1833.12,"body":"with him, in it with him. And"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1833.12,"endTime":1834.56,"body":"both of us just kind of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1833.12,"endTime":1834.56,"body":"shell-shocked."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1835.26,"endTime":1838.59,"body":"And I think too,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1835.26,"endTime":1838.59,"body":"if you think about the formal"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1838.59,"endTime":1843.33,"body":"pictures of your father, through"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1838.59,"endTime":1843.33,"body":"these years, and then in a book"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1843.33,"endTime":1847.08,"body":"format to counterbalance that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1843.33,"endTime":1847.08,"body":"with these really intimate"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1847.08,"endTime":1852.75,"body":"things, like his journal notes,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1847.08,"endTime":1852.75,"body":"and these Polaroids and these"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1852.75,"endTime":1857.04,"body":"things that really show both"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1852.75,"endTime":1857.04,"body":"sides, yeah, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1857.04,"endTime":1862.08,"body":"constructed, which is real, but"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1857.04,"endTime":1862.08,"body":"it's also staged in a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1862.29,"endTime":1866.4,"body":"instances. And then this, what"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1862.29,"endTime":1866.4,"body":"is happening beneath the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1866.4,"endTime":1868.86,"body":"surface, almost like what's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1866.4,"endTime":1868.86,"body":"happening between the frame, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1868.86,"endTime":1872.1,"body":"know, between the panels, in a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1868.86,"endTime":1872.1,"body":"way, like filling in some of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1872.1,"endTime":1877.86,"body":"that information for the viewer,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1872.1,"endTime":1877.86,"body":"and just contextualizing him and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1877.86,"endTime":1880.29,"body":"your relationship with him in a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1877.86,"endTime":1880.29,"body":"deeper way?"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1880.39,"endTime":1882.49,"body":"Yeah, that's a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1880.39,"endTime":1882.49,"body":"good point. And like, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1882.49,"endTime":1886.3,"body":"a teachable moment, if you will,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1882.49,"endTime":1886.3,"body":"for all of us, be it as an"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1886.3,"endTime":1891.07,"body":"artist or as a person, as a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1886.3,"endTime":1891.07,"body":"parent, as a lover. When you"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1891.07,"endTime":1896.68,"body":"sign on to something, You sign"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1891.07,"endTime":1896.68,"body":"on to it. Right, right, right."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1897.04,"endTime":1900.52,"body":"So obviously, I signed on, we"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1897.04,"endTime":1900.52,"body":"had a father son relationship"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1900.52,"endTime":1904.51,"body":"that's kind of built in. But"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1900.52,"endTime":1904.51,"body":"when we started this project,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1904.54,"endTime":1907.93,"body":"and it should not have ended my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1904.54,"endTime":1907.93,"body":"father, like when he started"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1907.93,"endTime":1911.05,"body":"losing his memory went into a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1907.93,"endTime":1911.05,"body":"nursing home. He said to me,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1911.05,"endTime":1913.15,"body":"like, we're still gonna"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1911.05,"endTime":1913.15,"body":"photograph, right. Like, I think"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1913.15,"endTime":1916.39,"body":"he wanted that because he never"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1913.15,"endTime":1916.39,"body":"wanted to go to a nursing home"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1916.6,"endTime":1920.98,"body":"full of like, French provincial"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1916.6,"endTime":1920.98,"body":"reproduction, furniture and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1920.98,"endTime":1925.87,"body":"like, furs. And so I started,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1920.98,"endTime":1925.87,"body":"you know, we made photographs in"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1925.87,"endTime":1930.52,"body":"the nursing home, and it wasn't"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1925.87,"endTime":1930.52,"body":"fun. No, it was a kind of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1930.52,"endTime":1934.42,"body":"dutiful kind of responsibility"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1930.52,"endTime":1934.42,"body":"to each other, but to the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1934.42,"endTime":1938.14,"body":"project. And one of the first"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1934.42,"endTime":1938.14,"body":"pictures I made was a picture"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1938.14,"endTime":1941.47,"body":"called furniture walker, which"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1938.14,"endTime":1941.47,"body":"is a clinical term for somebody"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1941.47,"endTime":1945.22,"body":"who won't use a walker or a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1941.47,"endTime":1945.22,"body":"wheelchair. And so it's this"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1945.22,"endTime":1948.1,"body":"triptych of my father just kind"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1945.22,"endTime":1948.1,"body":"of moving through space throwing"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1948.1,"endTime":1950.89,"body":"himself from piece of furniture"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1948.1,"endTime":1950.89,"body":"to piece of furniture. So"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1950.89,"endTime":1954.37,"body":"because he had this dignity,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1950.89,"endTime":1954.37,"body":"like that was more dignified to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1954.37,"endTime":1956.95,"body":"him, rather than use a walker."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1954.37,"endTime":1956.95,"body":"He would like to stumble from"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1956.95,"endTime":1960.82,"body":"table to chair to table. But I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1956.95,"endTime":1960.82,"body":"made I think, a beautiful"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1960.82,"endTime":1962.95,"body":"picture of him, but it's sad."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1963.61,"endTime":1966.79,"body":"Yeah, like, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1963.61,"endTime":1966.79,"body":"have this obligation to document"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1967.78,"endTime":1968.59,"body":"all the parts."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1968.63,"endTime":1970.67,"body":"Yeah, it's an"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1968.63,"endTime":1970.67,"body":"obligation, I think so. Like,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1971.33,"endTime":1974.12,"body":"it's like, if it's a studio"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1971.33,"endTime":1974.12,"body":"practice, whether you believe in"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1974.12,"endTime":1977.51,"body":"that phrase or not, you owe it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1974.12,"endTime":1977.51,"body":"to yourself. And certainly I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1977.51,"endTime":1981.74,"body":"tell my students that like, you"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1977.51,"endTime":1981.74,"body":"know, when it gets hard, it's, I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1981.74,"endTime":1985.67,"body":"don't buy it. You know, I live"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1981.74,"endTime":1985.67,"body":"by example. It's like, you make"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1985.67,"endTime":1985.85,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1986.03,"endTime":1988.67,"body":"And who knows, not all of them"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1986.03,"endTime":1988.67,"body":"are good. Some of them are like"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1988.67,"endTime":1992.09,"body":"really awful pictures. The very"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1988.67,"endTime":1992.09,"body":"last picture I made of my father"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1992.09,"endTime":1995.45,"body":"before he died, like a week"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1992.09,"endTime":1995.45,"body":"before he died, was him holding"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1995.45,"endTime":2000.16,"body":"his dentures in his hand. One"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":1995.45,"endTime":2000.16,"body":"was his dentures from 1955 and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2000.16,"endTime":2003.22,"body":"then is from 2019. That was like"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2000.16,"endTime":2003.22,"body":"the his new dentures he had just"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2003.22,"endTime":2008.14,"body":"gotten. So it's called Another"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2003.22,"endTime":2008.14,"body":"Bite. Like, it's a beautiful"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2008.14,"endTime":2010.21,"body":"picture, and I have my hand on"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2008.14,"endTime":2010.21,"body":"the top of his head, the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2010.21,"endTime":2013.48,"body":"lighting is kind of grim,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2010.21,"endTime":2013.48,"body":"Vermeer lighting and, and then"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2013.48,"endTime":2018.25,"body":"he was gone. I couldn't like, it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2013.48,"endTime":2018.25,"body":"was not the last picture I would"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2018.25,"endTime":2019.57,"body":"have liked to have made of him."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2019.6,"endTime":2022.45,"body":"Right. And yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2019.6,"endTime":2022.45,"body":"you just don't know. It's true."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2023.29,"endTime":2024.28,"body":"Wow. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2025.75,"endTime":2031.27,"body":"So switching gears a little bit."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2025.75,"endTime":2031.27,"body":"You've had a pretty charmed and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2031.27,"endTime":2036.19,"body":"successful career, deservedly"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2031.27,"endTime":2036.19,"body":"so. But what would you say was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2036.19,"endTime":2039.43,"body":"your biggest wrong turn? And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2036.19,"endTime":2039.43,"body":"what did you learn from it?"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2041.05,"endTime":2042.76,"body":"Well, that's"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2041.05,"endTime":2042.76,"body":"like a Miss America question."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2043.81,"endTime":2044.8,"body":"You're welcome."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2046.25,"endTime":2053.78,"body":"My biggest wrong"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2046.25,"endTime":2053.78,"body":"turn. Your mean artistically?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2054.47,"endTime":2056.72,"body":"I mean, open"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2054.47,"endTime":2056.72,"body":"ended."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2058.94,"endTime":2061.7,"body":"Well, I've had"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2058.94,"endTime":2061.7,"body":"some things - not to overshare"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2061.7,"endTime":2064.61,"body":"but I've had some things happen"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2061.7,"endTime":2064.61,"body":"in my personal life, because I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2064.61,"endTime":2068.42,"body":"always think that our artistic"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2064.61,"endTime":2068.42,"body":"life and our personal lives,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2068.45,"endTime":2069.89,"body":"they kind of run in tandem."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2070.2,"endTime":2072.63,"body":"Yours especially"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2070.2,"endTime":2072.63,"body":"I would say, given that your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2072.63,"endTime":2073.71,"body":"work is so personal."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2073.75,"endTime":2076.18,"body":"Where we end up"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2073.75,"endTime":2076.18,"body":"geographically and who we meet"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2076.18,"endTime":2079.66,"body":"and, you know, or the kind of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2076.18,"endTime":2079.66,"body":"art we make is made, sometimes"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2080.02,"endTime":2083.65,"body":"predicated upon, where our"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2080.02,"endTime":2083.65,"body":"physical health takes us, where"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2083.65,"endTime":2087.46,"body":"a partner might take us, or like"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2083.65,"endTime":2087.46,"body":"what happens, and so I've always"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2087.46,"endTime":2093.52,"body":"been kind of open to that. But"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2087.46,"endTime":2093.52,"body":"early in my young life I had, I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2093.52,"endTime":2096.22,"body":"was a survivor of domestic"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2093.52,"endTime":2096.22,"body":"violence. My very first"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2096.22,"endTime":2099.91,"body":"boyfriend was violent and I had"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2096.22,"endTime":2099.91,"body":"a series of very unpleasant,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2100.6,"endTime":2103.48,"body":"lucky-to-be-alive kind of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2100.6,"endTime":2103.48,"body":"experiences. Turning this into a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2103.48,"endTime":2107.41,"body":"dark podcast, but it's I think"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2103.48,"endTime":2107.41,"body":"it's important to talk about it."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2107.41,"endTime":2111.91,"body":"And I'm always a believer and an"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2107.41,"endTime":2111.91,"body":"advocate for people, survivors"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2111.91,"endTime":2114.49,"body":"of domestic violence. And I get"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2111.91,"endTime":2114.49,"body":"really irritated by people"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2114.49,"endTime":2116.14,"body":"saying, \"why don't you get out"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2114.49,"endTime":2116.14,"body":"of there?\" And it's usually"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2116.14,"endTime":2119.53,"body":"directed to women who were"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2116.14,"endTime":2119.53,"body":"abused by somebody. And I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2119.53,"endTime":2122.86,"body":"totally know why you don't get"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2119.53,"endTime":2122.86,"body":"out of there. You're fearful,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2122.89,"endTime":2125.35,"body":"you have low self-esteem, you"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2122.89,"endTime":2125.35,"body":"like don't know, but like,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2125.38,"endTime":2129.73,"body":"there's a million reasons. So"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2125.38,"endTime":2129.73,"body":"anyway, so I had one of those"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2129.73,"endTime":2134.98,"body":"situations and almost didn't"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2129.73,"endTime":2134.98,"body":"come out of it alive. But I did,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2135.01,"endTime":2139.18,"body":"and it changed my life, it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2135.01,"endTime":2139.18,"body":"really gave me a new. So that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2139.18,"endTime":2141.46,"body":"was, in a way a kind of gift."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2139.18,"endTime":2141.46,"body":"And it's like physics, for every"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2141.46,"endTime":2144.31,"body":"action is something equal"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2141.46,"endTime":2144.31,"body":"opposition or kind of reaction."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2144.67,"endTime":2148.54,"body":"And so I came out of it with a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2144.67,"endTime":2148.54,"body":"new-found gratitude for my life"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2148.54,"endTime":2151.96,"body":"that I was given a chance to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2148.54,"endTime":2151.96,"body":"keep living, but also"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2152.08,"endTime":2156.07,"body":"priorities. And it's it shifted"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2152.08,"endTime":2156.07,"body":"my photography, I think, in a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2156.07,"endTime":2158.2,"body":"really good way. I know you want"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2156.07,"endTime":2158.2,"body":"something bad."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2158.53,"endTime":2161.71,"body":"And when did"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2158.53,"endTime":2161.71,"body":"that happen? Like was it after"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2161.71,"endTime":2163.18,"body":"undergrad and before grad"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2161.71,"endTime":2163.18,"body":"school?"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2163.0,"endTime":2167.38,"body":"It was before"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2163.0,"endTime":2167.38,"body":"college, I okay, I was like, 18"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2167.41,"endTime":2173.05,"body":"years old, okay. Um, but that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2167.41,"endTime":2173.05,"body":"event went on for a while, a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2173.05,"endTime":2175.87,"body":"couple of years, because even"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2173.05,"endTime":2175.87,"body":"after it ended, he stalked me"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2175.87,"endTime":2181.06,"body":"and it was bad. So eventually,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2175.87,"endTime":2181.06,"body":"it ended. And I ended up in art"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2181.06,"endTime":2185.68,"body":"school, and I was so ready to be"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2181.06,"endTime":2185.68,"body":"there. Knowing that I needed to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2185.68,"endTime":2189.97,"body":"change gears in my life, I was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2185.68,"endTime":2189.97,"body":"making bad choices and, and it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2189.97,"endTime":2192.61,"body":"was a game changer. And it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2189.97,"endTime":2192.61,"body":"changed my life. And I went to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2192.61,"endTime":2195.22,"body":"mass College of Art, a great"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2192.61,"endTime":2195.22,"body":"state funded art school in"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2195.22,"endTime":2199.54,"body":"Boston, worked with amazing"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2195.22,"endTime":2199.54,"body":"people. And then from there got"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2199.54,"endTime":2201.94,"body":"like, went right to graduate"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2199.54,"endTime":2201.94,"body":"school got into Yale. So I had"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2201.94,"endTime":2205.0,"body":"like the other kind of like, you"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2201.94,"endTime":2205.0,"body":"know, world that I was never"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2205.0,"endTime":2208.54,"body":"should have been a part of. So"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2205.0,"endTime":2208.54,"body":"all of that was a great gift."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2208.54,"endTime":2213.04,"body":"And it just kept continuing. And"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2208.54,"endTime":2213.04,"body":"so yeah, I've been very, not a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2213.04,"endTime":2215.68,"body":"word that I use, but my mother"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2213.04,"endTime":2215.68,"body":"does. So say I was very blessed"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2215.89,"endTime":2218.62,"body":"to, you know, have a lot of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2215.89,"endTime":2218.62,"body":"great things happen that I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2218.62,"endTime":2222.73,"body":"totally earned, and was lucky"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2218.62,"endTime":2222.73,"body":"enough through fate, and maybe a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2222.73,"endTime":2227.2,"body":"higher power survived at all."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2222.73,"endTime":2227.2,"body":"And it did change my work and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2227.83,"endTime":2234.4,"body":"bad decisions during that might"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2227.83,"endTime":2234.4,"body":"have been, you know, getting a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2234.4,"endTime":2237.25,"body":"little lazy or letting things"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2234.4,"endTime":2237.25,"body":"distract me to a point. . . at"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2237.25,"endTime":2240.28,"body":"one point, I had a partner who"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2237.25,"endTime":2240.28,"body":"lived in Spain, and I moved to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2240.34,"endTime":2243.25,"body":"Spain, initially on a Fulbright,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2240.34,"endTime":2243.25,"body":"so I'm not complaining, it was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2243.25,"endTime":2248.47,"body":"great and I stayed for a long"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2243.25,"endTime":2248.47,"body":"time, for love, or what I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2248.47,"endTime":2252.46,"body":"thought was love. And I allowed"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2248.47,"endTime":2252.46,"body":"my artistic career to kind of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2252.46,"endTime":2258.85,"body":"get soft. So I thought, so I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2252.46,"endTime":2258.85,"body":"have a tendency sometimes to let"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2259.21,"endTime":2267.34,"body":"people especially partners, sway"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2259.21,"endTime":2267.34,"body":"my, my decisions. A victim, you"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2267.34,"endTime":2270.16,"body":"know, right back to back to the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2267.34,"endTime":2270.16,"body":"domestic violence days, but I'm"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2270.16,"endTime":2274.45,"body":"a victim to the heart sometimes."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2270.16,"endTime":2274.45,"body":"So I've learned over time that I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2274.45,"endTime":2278.59,"body":"really need to keep that muscle."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2274.45,"endTime":2278.59,"body":"Like, you know, I need to kind"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2278.59,"endTime":2281.53,"body":"of stand up for myself and my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2278.59,"endTime":2281.53,"body":"practice, and I'm going to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2281.53,"endTime":2285.01,"body":"advocate for that. Mm hmm. Yeah."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2281.53,"endTime":2285.01,"body":"So you know, those kinds of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2285.01,"endTime":2287.83,"body":"decisions. And I've done that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2285.01,"endTime":2287.83,"body":"I've taken on projects that I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2287.83,"endTime":2292.0,"body":"kind of regretted because my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2287.83,"endTime":2292.0,"body":"heart wasn't in it. But like,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2292.03,"endTime":2295.18,"body":"you know, I don't want to go"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2292.03,"endTime":2295.18,"body":"into details because it's kind"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2295.18,"endTime":2299.05,"body":"of embarrassing. And some people"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2295.18,"endTime":2299.05,"body":"like the work but I made"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2299.05,"endTime":2302.86,"body":"decisions about my work at times"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2299.05,"endTime":2302.86,"body":"in my career, that were based"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2302.86,"endTime":2307.54,"body":"more upon trends that were going"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2302.86,"endTime":2307.54,"body":"on in the art world, and less"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2307.54,"endTime":2309.64,"body":"about what David Hilliard really"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2307.54,"endTime":2309.64,"body":"cared about."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2310.18,"endTime":2311.98,"body":"Following"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2310.18,"endTime":2311.98,"body":"instead of leading, maybe"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2313.12,"endTime":2316.51,"body":"I lost, I lost"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2313.12,"endTime":2316.51,"body":"the threads of personal truths"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2316.57,"endTime":2323.62,"body":"that were important to me. And"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2316.57,"endTime":2323.62,"body":"so so now that I'm at the age"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2323.62,"endTime":2325.99,"body":"I'm at and where I am in my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2323.62,"endTime":2325.99,"body":"career, I don't think that's"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2325.99,"endTime":2329.71,"body":"going to happen so much anymore."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2325.99,"endTime":2329.71,"body":"Because I'm, I'm pretty much"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2329.71,"endTime":2333.22,"body":"cooked. Like I'm going to what"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2329.71,"endTime":2333.22,"body":"I'm doing, I'm going to keep"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2333.22,"endTime":2336.61,"body":"using a view camera and shooting"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2333.22,"endTime":2336.61,"body":"film until Kodak gives its last"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2336.61,"endTime":2340.3,"body":"death gasps and I'm going to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2336.61,"endTime":2340.3,"body":"keep working the way I work. But"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2340.78,"endTime":2344.26,"body":"enough people support my work"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2340.78,"endTime":2344.26,"body":"and enough, and I love what I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2344.26,"endTime":2347.83,"body":"do. And I still push subject"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2344.26,"endTime":2347.83,"body":"matter in contemporary ways. But"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2347.83,"endTime":2351.67,"body":"the way I work is so enjoyable,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2347.83,"endTime":2351.67,"body":"like so enjoyable."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2351.0,"endTime":2354.69,"body":"How wonderful"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2351.0,"endTime":2354.69,"body":"that you've found. . . that you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2354.69,"endTime":2356.67,"body":"feel settled in and great about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2354.69,"endTime":2356.67,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2356.88,"endTime":2358.68,"body":"I feel great"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2356.88,"endTime":2358.68,"body":"about that. I try to challenge"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2358.68,"endTime":2360.21,"body":"it, but I work the way I work."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2361.08,"endTime":2364.35,"body":"The flip side"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2361.08,"endTime":2364.35,"body":"is, what what was the best"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2364.35,"endTime":2367.23,"body":"decision you made? And did you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2364.35,"endTime":2367.23,"body":"see it that way at the time?"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2368.41,"endTime":2371.89,"body":"The best"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2368.41,"endTime":2371.89,"body":"decision that I made was a big"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2371.89,"endTime":2378.52,"body":"one was after college, being at"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2371.89,"endTime":2378.52,"body":"the precipice of going right and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2378.52,"endTime":2382.75,"body":"going left or going right, was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2378.52,"endTime":2382.75,"body":"committing to myself. And I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2382.75,"endTime":2386.17,"body":"remember this moment, I was at"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2382.75,"endTime":2386.17,"body":"my father's cottage in Southern"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2386.17,"endTime":2391.75,"body":"New Hampshire and by myself and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2386.17,"endTime":2391.75,"body":"I thought like what do I want to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2391.75,"endTime":2395.89,"body":"do with my life? And I was kind"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2391.75,"endTime":2395.89,"body":"of scared because I know that I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2395.89,"endTime":2400.06,"body":"could have done I had the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2395.89,"endTime":2400.06,"body":"opportunities to study different"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2400.06,"endTime":2403.9,"body":"things, and I decided to be an"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2400.06,"endTime":2403.9,"body":"artist. And I didn't want any"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2403.9,"endTime":2407.74,"body":"regret, you know, I spent enough"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2403.9,"endTime":2407.74,"body":"time even in those days in my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2407.74,"endTime":2414.46,"body":"young life I had been, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2407.74,"endTime":2414.46,"body":"I, I had, you know, been"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2414.46,"endTime":2418.87,"body":"repressed and secretive about my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2414.46,"endTime":2418.87,"body":"sexuality and secretive about"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2418.87,"endTime":2421.81,"body":"like a lot of like, had been"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2418.87,"endTime":2421.81,"body":"kind of through this abuse that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2421.81,"endTime":2425.77,"body":"I had received. But I didn't"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2421.81,"endTime":2425.77,"body":"want to do things for reasons"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2425.77,"endTime":2429.97,"body":"that society expected me to do,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2425.77,"endTime":2429.97,"body":"or, and I said, I'm going to be"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2429.97,"endTime":2433.54,"body":"an I want to be an artist like I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2429.97,"endTime":2433.54,"body":"don't, there isn't anything else"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2434.02,"endTime":2437.83,"body":"that I want to do. But that. And"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2434.02,"endTime":2437.83,"body":"also, and I've never really"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2437.83,"endTime":2440.32,"body":"talked about this and thought"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2437.83,"endTime":2440.32,"body":"about it in this way. So that's"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2440.32,"endTime":2443.89,"body":"the gift of doing this interview"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2440.32,"endTime":2443.89,"body":"for you today is that my father"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2443.95,"endTime":2448.57,"body":"didn't have opportunities I had"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2443.95,"endTime":2448.57,"body":"the opportunity to although it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2448.57,"endTime":2451.57,"body":"was kind of scary, because how"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2448.57,"endTime":2451.57,"body":"do you live as an artist, or a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2451.57,"endTime":2454.51,"body":"book publisher, like you know,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2451.57,"endTime":2454.51,"body":"it's we are in a luxury field,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2454.51,"endTime":2459.22,"body":"man. But you signed on to that,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2454.51,"endTime":2459.22,"body":"and, and so I made the decision"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2459.22,"endTime":2462.64,"body":"to take the chance jump in with"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2459.22,"endTime":2462.64,"body":"both feet, it was the best thing"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2462.64,"endTime":2466.84,"body":"I ever did. And when I went to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2462.64,"endTime":2466.84,"body":"grad school, I was so on fire, I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2466.84,"endTime":2470.62,"body":"was so ready to do it. And I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2466.84,"endTime":2470.62,"body":"applied to two schools didn't"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2470.62,"endTime":2474.94,"body":"want to go to really like both,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2470.62,"endTime":2474.94,"body":"I'd like to equally I didn't"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2474.94,"endTime":2477.64,"body":"want to go to my second choice,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2474.94,"endTime":2477.64,"body":"I shot high, right, I really"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2477.64,"endTime":2482.38,"body":"wanted what I want. And I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2477.64,"endTime":2482.38,"body":"excelled because I was so I was"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2482.38,"endTime":2487.0,"body":"like a complete art geek and a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2482.38,"endTime":2487.0,"body":"lover of voraciously loving"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2487.0,"endTime":2490.81,"body":"photography and its history and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2487.0,"endTime":2490.81,"body":"practitioners of the medium and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2491.83,"endTime":2495.52,"body":"and I do believe that I will"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2491.83,"endTime":2495.52,"body":"never be the visiting artists or"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2495.52,"endTime":2499.27,"body":"the teacher who will look at a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2495.52,"endTime":2499.27,"body":"room of students and dissuade"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2499.27,"endTime":2503.05,"body":"them from the path, because"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2499.27,"endTime":2503.05,"body":"somebody's got to do it. Right."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2503.08,"endTime":2508.03,"body":"Somebody has to do it. And I'm"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2503.08,"endTime":2508.03,"body":"not going to say, \"don't do it\"."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2508.33,"endTime":2512.71,"body":"Do you feel that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2508.33,"endTime":2512.71,"body":"part of the ways that you have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2512.74,"endTime":2517.99,"body":"pushed yourself to explore the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2512.74,"endTime":2517.99,"body":"themes that you explore in your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2517.99,"endTime":2523.96,"body":"work is part of that, like if"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2517.99,"endTime":2523.96,"body":"you're going to go all in and do"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2523.96,"endTime":2528.01,"body":"this hard thing that you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2523.96,"endTime":2528.01,"body":"going to really do it and have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2528.01,"endTime":2529.03,"body":"it make a difference?"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2529.0,"endTime":2531.82,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2529.0,"endTime":2531.82,"body":"tried to I mean, that sounds"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2531.82,"endTime":2534.49,"body":"funny. Like, I think every"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2531.82,"endTime":2534.49,"body":"artist would say that they try"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2534.49,"endTime":2539.26,"body":"to like I I know that like, you"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2534.49,"endTime":2539.26,"body":"know, I'm just another person,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2539.29,"endTime":2542.59,"body":"I'm just another my case and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2539.29,"endTime":2542.59,"body":"other gay white guy like I there"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2542.59,"endTime":2545.71,"body":"are things about me that hit an"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2542.59,"endTime":2545.71,"body":"average, right like that. But"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2545.71,"endTime":2549.25,"body":"it's trying to say things with"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2545.71,"endTime":2549.25,"body":"the clearest, most unique voice"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2549.25,"endTime":2552.7,"body":"possible, try to be honest,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2549.25,"endTime":2552.7,"body":"whatever, whatever that means in"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2552.7,"endTime":2557.44,"body":"art. But try to tell unique"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2552.7,"endTime":2557.44,"body":"stories, specificity is"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2557.44,"endTime":2562.33,"body":"universal, right? So I try to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2557.44,"endTime":2562.33,"body":"see things that are kind of skew"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2562.33,"endTime":2567.43,"body":"fun way that is different. And I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2562.33,"endTime":2567.43,"body":"try to tell stories that are"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2567.43,"endTime":2572.83,"body":"kind of different. Or at least"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2567.43,"endTime":2572.83,"body":"spins on other story versions of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2572.89,"endTime":2577.06,"body":"other stories. So I try to keep"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2572.89,"endTime":2577.06,"body":"it fresh because to keep myself"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2577.06,"endTime":2580.63,"body":"interested and to get your"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2577.06,"endTime":2580.63,"body":"attention and try to get people"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2580.63,"endTime":2584.38,"body":"to care. Right. And that's I try"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2580.63,"endTime":2584.38,"body":"to do that doesn't just apply to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2584.38,"endTime":2588.07,"body":"art, it's applies to life and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2584.38,"endTime":2588.07,"body":"relationships. And you got to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2588.07,"endTime":2593.32,"body":"show up to the party. So I have"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2588.07,"endTime":2593.32,"body":"tried to the best of my ability"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2593.92,"endTime":2600.52,"body":"to honor that. The craft of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2593.92,"endTime":2600.52,"body":"storytelling and art making. And"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2600.52,"endTime":2605.98,"body":"that's through practice. That's"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2600.52,"endTime":2605.98,"body":"through chance and failure. And"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2606.58,"endTime":2610.81,"body":"toughening your hide when it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2606.58,"endTime":2610.81,"body":"doesn't go right and, and it's"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2611.29,"endTime":2616.03,"body":"through just like really letting"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2611.29,"endTime":2616.03,"body":"yourself be vulnerable. And"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2616.96,"endTime":2618.34,"body":"that's kind of how I live."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2618.54,"endTime":2621.09,"body":"Yeah, well,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2618.54,"endTime":2621.09,"body":"that's the gift to all of us for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2621.09,"endTime":2626.58,"body":"sure. For me. So one last"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2621.09,"endTime":2626.58,"body":"question for you. This podcast"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2626.58,"endTime":2629.76,"body":"is about the journey - where you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2626.58,"endTime":2629.76,"body":"went right, where you went"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2629.76,"endTime":2634.2,"body":"wrong. By anyone's account,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2629.76,"endTime":2634.2,"body":"you're a successful artist. Do"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2634.2,"endTime":2637.59,"body":"you feel that way? Do you feel"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2634.2,"endTime":2637.59,"body":"like you've surpassed all of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2637.59,"endTime":2640.32,"body":"your professional and artistic"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2637.59,"endTime":2640.32,"body":"goals or do you feel like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2640.32,"endTime":2645.51,"body":"there's still a lot on the table"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2640.32,"endTime":2645.51,"body":"that you want to learn or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2645.51,"endTime":2646.08,"body":"achieve?"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2647.55,"endTime":2650.16,"body":"That's a good"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2647.55,"endTime":2650.16,"body":"question. And since I talked"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2650.16,"endTime":2653.34,"body":"about being vulnerable and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2650.16,"endTime":2653.34,"body":"honesty, on a very personal"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2653.49,"endTime":2656.82,"body":"level, and it's so funny that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2653.49,"endTime":2656.82,"body":"you say this - I'm not kidding,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2656.82,"endTime":2659.4,"body":"Jennifer, last night I was lying"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2656.82,"endTime":2659.4,"body":"in bed next to my boyfriend"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2659.64,"endTime":2664.8,"body":"talking about this same thing."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2659.64,"endTime":2664.8,"body":"Like if, and I said verbatim,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2664.89,"endTime":2668.37,"body":"\"if I were to die tomorrow I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2664.89,"endTime":2668.37,"body":"would have no regrets. I've done"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2668.52,"endTime":2670.74,"body":"exactly what I want to do\"."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2673.47,"endTime":2674.19,"body":"amazing"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2674.75,"endTime":2677.63,"body":"You know, I'm"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2674.75,"endTime":2677.63,"body":"not living on the street. I'm"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2677.63,"endTime":2683.57,"body":"not rich, I'm not poor. People"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2677.63,"endTime":2683.57,"body":"have supported my work. Every"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2683.57,"endTime":2688.97,"body":"day I wake up and I love doing"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2683.57,"endTime":2688.97,"body":"what I do. You know, I have"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2688.97,"endTime":2693.62,"body":"family and friends. I feel very"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2688.97,"endTime":2693.62,"body":"successful in a very like inner"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2693.62,"endTime":2699.38,"body":"gratitude spiritual way, if you"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2693.62,"endTime":2699.38,"body":"will. No regrets. The danger is,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2699.38,"endTime":2701.72,"body":"and you might know about this,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2699.38,"endTime":2701.72,"body":"or some of us might know about"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2701.72,"endTime":2704.9,"body":"this, is that when you start to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2701.72,"endTime":2704.9,"body":"use things, I'm just going to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2704.9,"endTime":2708.71,"body":"say like, the tenor or the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2704.9,"endTime":2708.71,"body":"Zeitgeist, if you will, of the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2708.71,"endTime":2713.6,"body":"art world, or dare I say social"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2708.71,"endTime":2713.6,"body":"media, and start to look at"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2713.6,"endTime":2719.09,"body":"others. That can be dangerous"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2713.6,"endTime":2719.09,"body":"because I am fragile and I am on"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2719.09,"endTime":2726.02,"body":"some level competitive and"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2719.09,"endTime":2726.02,"body":"desirous of success. Sometimes"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2726.02,"endTime":2728.3,"body":"for the right reasons, sometimes"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2726.02,"endTime":2728.3,"body":"for the wrong reasons because"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2728.3,"endTime":2733.22,"body":"who doesn't want to be loved a"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2728.3,"endTime":2733.22,"body":"little bit? But it's unhealthy"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2733.58,"endTime":2737.21,"body":"if I spend too much time on"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2733.58,"endTime":2737.21,"body":"Instagram or to like, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2737.21,"endTime":2740.27,"body":"I'm a bad poster, although,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2737.21,"endTime":2740.27,"body":"please follow me on Instagram."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2740.42,"endTime":2742.25,"body":"Oh, I do! I love"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2740.42,"endTime":2742.25,"body":"your posts."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2742.36,"endTime":2745.18,"body":"I try. I've been"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2742.36,"endTime":2745.18,"body":"a little lazy lately, but I try"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2745.18,"endTime":2747.91,"body":"to keep it real. Not every one"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2745.18,"endTime":2747.91,"body":"is about me and my career."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2747.94,"endTime":2758.41,"body":"Sometimes. I try not to make too"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2747.94,"endTime":2758.41,"body":"many like food pictures. I'm not"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2758.41,"endTime":2763.84,"body":"like, in my opinion, I'm not"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2758.41,"endTime":2763.84,"body":"like a blue chip artist. I show"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2763.84,"endTime":2767.95,"body":"with I think the best photograph"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2763.84,"endTime":2767.95,"body":"gallery in New York. I feel so"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2767.95,"endTime":2770.68,"body":"lucky to have my relationship"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2767.95,"endTime":2770.68,"body":"with Yancey Richardson, and it"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2770.89,"endTime":2774.22,"body":"has been strong in Atlanta. As"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2770.89,"endTime":2774.22,"body":"you know, Jackson Fine Art. I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2774.22,"endTime":2778.09,"body":"have the galleries behind me. I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2774.22,"endTime":2778.09,"body":"have a gallery in Provincetown,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2778.09,"endTime":2782.98,"body":"the Schoolhouse Gallery, like"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2778.09,"endTime":2782.98,"body":"amazing. So I'm not a slouch. I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2782.98,"endTime":2786.52,"body":"know that but I'm, you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2782.98,"endTime":2786.52,"body":"no I won't name names, but you"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2786.52,"endTime":2790.03,"body":"there are these like super art"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2786.52,"endTime":2790.03,"body":"stars that like I will forever."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2790.06,"endTime":2793.9,"body":". . Even some of my former"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2790.06,"endTime":2793.9,"body":"students have gone on to these,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2793.9,"endTime":2796.99,"body":"like upper echelon careers that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2793.9,"endTime":2796.99,"body":"are just like, you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2796.99,"endTime":2803.83,"body":"parking their cars, you know."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2796.99,"endTime":2803.83,"body":"I'm not a good parker. But um,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2803.92,"endTime":2806.92,"body":"but I, but I do feel like, I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2803.92,"endTime":2806.92,"body":"have to be careful not to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2806.92,"endTime":2809.59,"body":"measure myself against that. So"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2806.92,"endTime":2809.59,"body":"on a personal level, yes, I am"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2809.59,"endTime":2813.58,"body":"very happy with where I'm at. I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2809.59,"endTime":2813.58,"body":"do feel like also back to what's"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2813.58,"endTime":2816.94,"body":"really, I don't feel like it's"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2813.58,"endTime":2816.94,"body":"over for me back to my work, not"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2816.94,"endTime":2819.43,"body":"for the wrong reasons. For the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2816.94,"endTime":2819.43,"body":"right reasons. I think there are"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2819.43,"endTime":2824.95,"body":"more stories to tell, the world"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2819.43,"endTime":2824.95,"body":"is ever-changing. And I still"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2824.95,"endTime":2828.25,"body":"try to like find ways to address"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2824.95,"endTime":2828.25,"body":"those stories. And also, I'm not"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2828.25,"endTime":2830.77,"body":"20 I don't want to make"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2828.25,"endTime":2830.77,"body":"pictures, I don't want to make"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2830.86,"endTime":2835.51,"body":"the equivalent of a 50 year old"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2830.86,"endTime":2835.51,"body":"man in an Abercrombie sweatshirt"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2835.51,"endTime":2838.57,"body":"that is too small for him. I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2835.51,"endTime":2838.57,"body":"don't want to make pictures that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2838.57,"endTime":2841.33,"body":"feel that way either. I don't"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2838.57,"endTime":2841.33,"body":"know, if you get the reference."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2842.02,"endTime":2844.99,"body":"I want to make pictures that are"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2842.02,"endTime":2844.99,"body":"photographs made by a middle"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2844.99,"endTime":2849.7,"body":"aged aging guy who is not"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2844.99,"endTime":2849.7,"body":"running with a different crowd"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2849.7,"endTime":2852.25,"body":"who has a different kind of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2849.7,"endTime":2852.25,"body":"wisdom, a different kind of life"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2852.25,"endTime":2856.66,"body":"experience. So I try to be"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2852.25,"endTime":2856.66,"body":"honest with myself to like look"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2856.66,"endTime":2861.19,"body":"at. . . to make pictures that"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2856.66,"endTime":2861.19,"body":"address where I'm at, in my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2861.19,"endTime":2864.25,"body":"life, where the world is at,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2861.19,"endTime":2864.25,"body":"where queer culture is at, where"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2864.25,"endTime":2867.55,"body":"politics. . . like, where"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2864.25,"endTime":2867.55,"body":"consumers, where American"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2867.55,"endTime":2871.72,"body":"culture, like whatever. So try"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2867.55,"endTime":2871.72,"body":"to stay on point with, not to"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2871.72,"endTime":2874.6,"body":"get stuck in the kind of habits"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2871.72,"endTime":2874.6,"body":"that I have. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2874.78,"endTime":2877.54,"body":"You want to be"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2874.78,"endTime":2877.54,"body":"honest and authentic, and so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2877.54,"endTime":2881.35,"body":"that people can continue to tap"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2877.54,"endTime":2881.35,"body":"into that vulnerability. Yeah."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2882.49,"endTime":2885.61,"body":"Yeah. I use the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2882.49,"endTime":2885.61,"body":"term I want to throw a can of"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2885.61,"endTime":2889.36,"body":"like visual fresca. Like, I want"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2885.61,"endTime":2889.36,"body":"to like, I want to make sure"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2889.36,"endTime":2893.23,"body":"that my work is as up to date as"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2889.36,"endTime":2893.23,"body":"I can possibly make it."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2893.71,"endTime":2894.55,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2893.71,"endTime":2894.55,"body":"wonderful."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2895.3,"endTime":2895.96,"body":"Anyway,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2896.62,"endTime":2898.15,"body":"This was the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2896.62,"endTime":2898.15,"body":"most fun."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2898.36,"endTime":2899.98,"body":"Well, I mean,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2898.36,"endTime":2899.98,"body":"you couldn't shut me up."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2901.18,"endTime":2902.11,"body":"I didn't want"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2901.18,"endTime":2902.11,"body":"to!"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2903.34,"endTime":2905.02,"body":"So that's my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2903.34,"endTime":2905.02,"body":"journey."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2928.63,"endTime":2929.95,"body":"So when are we"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2928.63,"endTime":2929.95,"body":"doing the dad book?"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2930.52,"endTime":2934.15,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2930.52,"endTime":2934.15,"body":"Let's talk. Yeah. I really do"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2934.15,"endTime":2939.73,"body":"believe that I have. That is, my"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2934.15,"endTime":2939.73,"body":"dad would say, to and to honor"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2939.73,"endTime":2943.48,"body":"him one more time in this like,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2939.73,"endTime":2943.48,"body":"as he was losing his memory, he"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2943.48,"endTime":2945.19,"body":"said to me, \"David, I hope"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2943.48,"endTime":2945.19,"body":"you're going to keep"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2945.19,"endTime":2947.71,"body":"photographing us because you"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2945.19,"endTime":2947.71,"body":"know, your work with me is your"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2947.71,"endTime":2952.69,"body":"best work.\" So he had to remind"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2947.71,"endTime":2952.69,"body":"me that like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2953.23,"endTime":2954.85,"body":"Photographic"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2953.23,"endTime":2954.85,"body":"slut to the end!"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2955.03,"endTime":2956.38,"body":"He was a slut,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2955.03,"endTime":2956.38,"body":"man."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2956.9,"endTime":2960.71,"body":"But he, he was right. You know,"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2956.9,"endTime":2960.71,"body":"it is my best work. At least for"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2960.71,"endTime":2963.38,"body":"me. It's my best work and I"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2960.71,"endTime":2963.38,"body":"think people either see me as"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2963.38,"endTime":2967.76,"body":"the dad photographer, or as the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2963.38,"endTime":2967.76,"body":"the queer dialogue guy or both."},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2968.18,"endTime":2971.12,"body":"But the work of my father is the"},{"speaker":"David Hilliard","startTime":2968.18,"endTime":2971.12,"body":"closest to my heart."}]}