{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":6.84,"endTime":8.73,"body":"Welcome to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":6.84,"endTime":8.73,"body":"perfect bound. I'm Jennifer"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":8.73,"endTime":11.49,"body":"Yoffy, the founder and publisher"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":8.73,"endTime":11.49,"body":"of Yoffy press in Atlanta,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":11.49,"endTime":14.88,"body":"Georgia. This is a podcast where"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":11.49,"endTime":14.88,"body":"we talk to artists about their"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":14.88,"endTime":18.24,"body":"journey, how they got where they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":14.88,"endTime":18.24,"body":"are, what right and wrong turns"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":18.24,"endTime":20.61,"body":"they made along the way and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":18.24,"endTime":20.61,"body":"where they're heading next."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":29.72,"endTime":33.47,"body":"It is my great honor to welcome"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":29.72,"endTime":33.47,"body":"Tabitha Soren to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":34.67,"endTime":38.3,"body":"Tabitha Soren is an artist and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":34.67,"endTime":38.3,"body":"Peabody Award winning journalist"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":38.33,"endTime":41.72,"body":"who used to be best known for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":38.33,"endTime":41.72,"body":"her work as an MTV News corre"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":41.72,"endTime":45.74,"body":"pondent and on air producer."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":41.72,"endTime":45.74,"body":"In 1999, Soren took a fellows"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":45.74,"endTime":48.86,"body":"ip at Stanford University, wh"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":45.74,"endTime":48.86,"body":"re she shifted her visual art"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":48.86,"endTime":52.97,"body":"practice from film to the st"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":48.86,"endTime":52.97,"body":"ll photograph. Her artwork speak"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":52.97,"endTime":57.23,"body":"to the twists of fate in life t"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":52.97,"endTime":57.23,"body":"at can unhinge us, she visualize"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":57.23,"endTime":60.77,"body":"psychological states, the i"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":57.23,"endTime":60.77,"body":"ternal weather that storms thro"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":61.28,"endTime":65.09,"body":"gh each of us. Her project Runn"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":61.28,"endTime":65.09,"body":"ng depicts the fight or flight"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":65.09,"endTime":69.17,"body":"esponse, Panic Beach abends"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":65.09,"endTime":69.17,"body":"the viewer as panic attacks d"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":69.17,"endTime":72.38,"body":". 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But I was also"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":109.41,"endTime":114.18,"body":"thinking about how demanding the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":109.41,"endTime":114.18,"body":"lifestyle that you were leading"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":114.18,"endTime":116.67,"body":"as a journalist was and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":114.18,"endTime":116.67,"body":"wondering if there were other"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":116.67,"endTime":120.15,"body":"considerations or motivations"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":116.67,"endTime":120.15,"body":"for making a career change."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":120.84,"endTime":123.78,"body":"There were"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":120.84,"endTime":123.78,"body":"absolutely practical life"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":123.78,"endTime":129.48,"body":"logistical considerations. I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":123.78,"endTime":129.48,"body":"didn't feel like I could"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":129.48,"endTime":135.84,"body":"continue to wake up and have my"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":129.48,"endTime":135.84,"body":"schedule, change or be, you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":135.84,"endTime":139.71,"body":"know, revised in some way. And"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":135.84,"endTime":139.71,"body":"with news, even though I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":139.95,"endTime":144.57,"body":"always covering breaking news,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":139.95,"endTime":144.57,"body":"there certainly were plenty"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":144.6,"endTime":147.96,"body":"of..., there was plenty of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":144.6,"endTime":147.96,"body":"travel. 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And so, like when you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":259.29,"endTime":264.33,"body":"meet someone and you hit it off"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":259.29,"endTime":264.33,"body":"like that, I don't know, that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":264.36,"endTime":267.63,"body":"was just really great. Whereas"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":264.36,"endTime":267.63,"body":"when I was at NBC Nightly News,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":267.63,"endTime":270.72,"body":"I had to pull out my pigtails"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":267.63,"endTime":270.72,"body":"and change my shoes and, you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":270.72,"endTime":276.24,"body":"know, put on my my big girl"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":270.72,"endTime":276.24,"body":"pants. 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And here, you are getting"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":301.2,"endTime":305.46,"body":"engaged and kind of moving into"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":305.46,"endTime":310.71,"body":"another life phase that you were"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":305.46,"endTime":310.71,"body":"more interested in more like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":310.71,"endTime":315.39,"body":"emotionally driven stories and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":310.71,"endTime":315.39,"body":"things that you could explore in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":315.39,"endTime":316.23,"body":"a different way."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":317.38,"endTime":320.11,"body":"That is"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":317.38,"endTime":320.11,"body":"definitely how it turned out."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":320.11,"endTime":323.53,"body":"But I'm not sure I had that at"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":320.11,"endTime":323.53,"body":"the front of my mind at the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":323.53,"endTime":329.8,"body":"time. I just felt like, you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":323.53,"endTime":329.8,"body":"know, I grew up in a very middle"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":329.8,"endTime":336.94,"body":"class family. And it was pretty"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":329.8,"endTime":336.94,"body":"conventional, provincial, I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":336.94,"endTime":339.61,"body":"might say, except we live lived"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":336.94,"endTime":339.61,"body":"all around the world, because my"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":339.61,"endTime":346.03,"body":"dad was in the military. But, I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":339.61,"endTime":346.03,"body":"did have a very antiquated idea"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":346.06,"endTime":352.0,"body":"of what family and getting"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":346.06,"endTime":352.0,"body":"married means. And so I just"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":352.0,"endTime":354.94,"body":"assumed kids would be down the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":352.0,"endTime":354.94,"body":"road. And do I want to be an"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":354.94,"endTime":360.34,"body":"absentee mom? Or do I need to"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":354.94,"endTime":360.34,"body":"hire somebody to take care of my"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":360.34,"endTime":365.59,"body":"kids while I'm gone? Do we have"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":360.34,"endTime":365.59,"body":"two sort of high powered careers"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":365.59,"endTime":369.79,"body":"and have them battle the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":365.59,"endTime":369.79,"body":"schedule out? You know, every"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":369.79,"endTime":373.33,"body":"day? There were just all sorts"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":369.79,"endTime":373.33,"body":"of things I had heard from"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":373.33,"endTime":379.27,"body":"people who had tried to manage"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":373.33,"endTime":379.27,"body":"marriage and kids. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":379.27,"endTime":383.05,"body":"some of my mentors in"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":379.27,"endTime":383.05,"body":"journalism, most of the women"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":383.05,"endTime":386.5,"body":"had no children. And that was"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":383.05,"endTime":386.5,"body":"the way to just keep it simple."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":386.68,"endTime":390.82,"body":"And that was a good choice for"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":386.68,"endTime":390.82,"body":"them. But, it wasn't how I saw"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":390.82,"endTime":397.48,"body":"things. So, my agent called me,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":390.82,"endTime":397.48,"body":"her most downwardly mobile"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":397.48,"endTime":405.19,"body":"client, with a lot of love. I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":397.48,"endTime":405.19,"body":"just failed. And when my husband"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":405.19,"endTime":409.6,"body":"and I bought a house here, I had"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":405.19,"endTime":409.6,"body":"a baby. I think I taught at the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":409.6,"endTime":413.32,"body":"journalism school while I was"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":409.6,"endTime":413.32,"body":"pregnant and nursing. And then"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":413.32,"endTime":415.45,"body":"we put the house under"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":413.32,"endTime":415.45,"body":"construction and moved to Paris."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":415.45,"endTime":418.48,"body":"So I didn't have to figure out"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":415.45,"endTime":418.48,"body":"what kind of working mom I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":418.48,"endTime":421.0,"body":"wanted to be because I couldn't"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":418.48,"endTime":421.0,"body":"speak French. Nobody could hire"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":421.0,"endTime":421.78,"body":"me for anything."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":422.22,"endTime":422.85,"body":"Perfect."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":422.97,"endTime":426.51,"body":"Yeah. Exactly."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":422.97,"endTime":426.51,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":427.32,"endTime":431.16,"body":"So something"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":427.32,"endTime":431.16,"body":"that I love and appreciate about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":431.16,"endTime":434.7,"body":"your work is that it has"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":431.16,"endTime":434.7,"body":"conceptual rigor. So your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":434.7,"endTime":438.12,"body":"projects have a depth of meaning"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":434.7,"endTime":438.12,"body":"and purpose to them beyond just"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":438.12,"endTime":441.12,"body":"the aesthetic beauty. How much"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":438.12,"endTime":441.12,"body":"of your background as a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":441.12,"endTime":444.36,"body":"journalist do you think plays"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":441.12,"endTime":444.36,"body":"into that aspect of your work?"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":446.04,"endTime":449.85,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":446.04,"endTime":449.85,"body":"journalism is why I start with a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":449.85,"endTime":453.33,"body":"concept - generally. I mean"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":449.85,"endTime":453.33,"body":"every once in a while I take a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":453.33,"endTime":455.43,"body":"good picture and think, wow,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":453.33,"endTime":455.43,"body":"that would be great for"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":455.43,"endTime":458.67,"body":"something. And I don't know why"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":455.43,"endTime":458.67,"body":"I don't know the meaning behind"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":458.67,"endTime":461.67,"body":"it. But generally, when I start"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":458.67,"endTime":461.67,"body":"a new body of work, I have an"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":461.67,"endTime":467.55,"body":"idea in my head. And I want to"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":461.67,"endTime":467.55,"body":"take pictures that support that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":467.55,"endTime":468.06,"body":"idea."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":468.51,"endTime":471.3,"body":"Right, so you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":468.51,"endTime":471.3,"body":"exploring using a camera?"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":471.63,"endTime":475.56,"body":"Yes, it's I'm"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":471.63,"endTime":475.56,"body":"finding the pictures to verify"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":475.59,"endTime":480.81,"body":"or support the concept. And"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":475.59,"endTime":480.81,"body":"often the work is about"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":482.79,"endTime":486.42,"body":"visualizing something you can't"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":482.79,"endTime":486.42,"body":"see, like a psychological state"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":486.42,"endTime":493.29,"body":"of mind. And I think that that's"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":486.42,"endTime":493.29,"body":"not very journalistic. Right? So"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":493.29,"endTime":497.61,"body":"I'm not out there looking at"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":493.29,"endTime":497.61,"body":"reportage or trying to document"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":497.61,"endTime":501.21,"body":"a subculture or street life. I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":497.61,"endTime":501.21,"body":"think that's another very"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":501.6,"endTime":506.97,"body":"gendered area of photography."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":501.6,"endTime":506.97,"body":"Helen Levitt didn't have kids"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":506.97,"endTime":513.27,"body":"either. So, street photography"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":506.97,"endTime":513.27,"body":"just doesn't work for me,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":513.27,"endTime":515.79,"body":"because I have three children,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":513.27,"endTime":515.79,"body":"and I can't just have a camera"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":515.79,"endTime":518.97,"body":"around my neck and wander or"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":515.79,"endTime":518.97,"body":"roam until I find a great"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":518.97,"endTime":522.66,"body":"picture. So my process is much"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":518.97,"endTime":522.66,"body":"more directed. I have shot"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":522.66,"endTime":527.46,"body":"lists, I'm surrounded by all"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":522.66,"endTime":527.46,"body":"these pieces of paper in my"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":527.46,"endTime":530.91,"body":"studio, and they are things I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":527.46,"endTime":530.91,"body":"know I've already shot. And I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":530.91,"endTime":533.58,"body":"didn't know what to do with."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":530.91,"endTime":533.58,"body":"But, now it all sort of gels."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":533.82,"endTime":536.19,"body":"You know, some of it gels"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":533.82,"endTime":536.19,"body":"together. There's been a lot of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":536.19,"endTime":539.28,"body":"time because of COVID to look"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":536.19,"endTime":539.28,"body":"through one's archive, and all"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":539.28,"endTime":542.28,"body":"those pictures you've taken that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":539.28,"endTime":542.28,"body":"you've never had any use for."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":542.28,"endTime":547.26,"body":"So, because I can't grab a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":542.28,"endTime":547.26,"body":"friend to get in the car and go"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":547.26,"endTime":551.91,"body":"make her stand in the rain"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":547.26,"endTime":551.91,"body":"somewhere to take a picture, I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":551.94,"endTime":556.17,"body":"have looked to see like..., I've"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":551.94,"endTime":556.17,"body":"just been digging deep. I've"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":556.17,"endTime":559.71,"body":"been shooting as well. But, I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":556.17,"endTime":559.71,"body":"think we've all been sort of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":559.71,"endTime":566.52,"body":"looking back at all the zillions"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":559.71,"endTime":566.52,"body":"of images that you have. I was"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":566.52,"endTime":569.25,"body":"talking to Raymond Meeks on the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":566.52,"endTime":569.25,"body":"phone and he said something"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":569.49,"endTime":574.26,"body":"like, you know, he was, he"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":569.49,"endTime":574.26,"body":"had... Oh, I know, I was"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":574.26,"endTime":578.22,"body":"complaining about backing up my"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":574.26,"endTime":578.22,"body":"archive online, which is one of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":578.22,"endTime":581.58,"body":"the things I did last summer and"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":578.22,"endTime":581.58,"body":"how tedious it was. And I said,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":581.58,"endTime":585.69,"body":"you know, do you do that? Do you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":581.58,"endTime":585.69,"body":"have it on on hard drives? Or do"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":585.69,"endTime":589.11,"body":"you have the negatives in a safe"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":585.69,"endTime":589.11,"body":"or, you know, he's like, \"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":589.41,"endTime":592.71,"body":"nah, none of that I think the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":589.41,"endTime":592.71,"body":"world could do with a lot fewer"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":592.71,"endTime":596.97,"body":"images, you know, whatever?!?"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":592.71,"endTime":596.97,"body":"Like, there's just 1000s of bad"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":596.97,"endTime":602.52,"body":"pictures in my closet, you know?"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":596.97,"endTime":602.52,"body":"Like really, light the match,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":602.58,"endTime":605.25,"body":"the world would be better off.\""},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":602.58,"endTime":605.25,"body":"And I thought, yeah, I'm really"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":605.25,"endTime":608.67,"body":"getting..., I'm treating these"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":605.25,"endTime":608.67,"body":"things like they're, they're all"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":608.67,"endTime":612.36,"body":"like these priceless objects,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":608.67,"endTime":612.36,"body":"when really, the world is just"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":612.36,"endTime":615.6,"body":"fine never seeing most of the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":612.36,"endTime":615.6,"body":"stuff that I take."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":616.08,"endTime":618.15,"body":"Do you think"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":616.08,"endTime":618.15,"body":"having looked back, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":618.15,"endTime":622.26,"body":"kind of having this time to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":618.15,"endTime":622.26,"body":"maybe see all these orphan"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":622.26,"endTime":626.31,"body":"photos that you made that were"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":622.26,"endTime":626.31,"body":"good that didn't fit? Do you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":626.31,"endTime":629.94,"body":"feel that there's a commonality"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":626.31,"endTime":629.94,"body":"between them? Like, are you able"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":629.94,"endTime":633.39,"body":"to pull them together and say,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":629.94,"endTime":633.39,"body":"like, Oh, this is a theme I was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":633.39,"endTime":636.27,"body":"exploring in the background and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":633.39,"endTime":636.27,"body":"never realized?"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":637.2,"endTime":643.38,"body":"Well, I think"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":637.2,"endTime":643.38,"body":"that, I think yes, I think that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":644.46,"endTime":649.35,"body":"what I see when I look back, is"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":644.46,"endTime":649.35,"body":"not anything that really relates"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":649.38,"endTime":653.91,"body":"to things that are very popular"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":649.38,"endTime":653.91,"body":"at the moment, like identity,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":653.91,"endTime":658.02,"body":"things that are really important"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":653.91,"endTime":658.02,"body":"in terms of equality and social"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":658.02,"endTime":664.62,"body":"justice and other voices being"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":658.02,"endTime":664.62,"body":"heard. I feel like my work is"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":664.62,"endTime":670.92,"body":"constantly reaching out to a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":664.62,"endTime":670.92,"body":"universality rather than how"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":670.98,"endTime":678.27,"body":"we're all equally different and"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":670.98,"endTime":678.27,"body":"special. It can feel kind of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":678.27,"endTime":683.07,"body":"epic and overwhelming to me."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":678.27,"endTime":683.07,"body":"But, I think that's why my"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":683.07,"endTime":687.6,"body":"projects take so long because it"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":683.07,"endTime":687.6,"body":"takes me a while to show"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":687.6,"endTime":691.41,"body":"something that I haven't seen"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":687.6,"endTime":691.41,"body":"before that isn't trite or"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":691.41,"endTime":697.77,"body":"cliche. So for example, the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":691.41,"endTime":697.77,"body":"running work, yes, there are"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":697.77,"endTime":701.19,"body":"people running. But, it's not"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":697.77,"endTime":701.19,"body":"about that at all. It's about"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":701.19,"endTime":704.37,"body":"the fight or flight response and"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":701.19,"endTime":704.37,"body":"how one deals with a feeling of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":704.37,"endTime":710.28,"body":"panic or anxiety. And right now"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":704.37,"endTime":710.28,"body":"I've been working on, pictures"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":710.28,"endTime":714.33,"body":"of car wrecks, and pictures of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":710.28,"endTime":714.33,"body":"train wrecks, and pictures of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":716.73,"endTime":722.43,"body":"shipwrecks, and I'm trying to"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":716.73,"endTime":722.43,"body":"put them together in a way that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":722.43,"endTime":727.35,"body":"speaks to the emotional wreck,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":722.43,"endTime":727.35,"body":"that all of us are sort of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":727.41,"endTime":731.79,"body":"figuring out a way around, or a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":727.41,"endTime":731.79,"body":"way to pull ourselves up from"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":732.09,"endTime":734.73,"body":"that situation of the last year"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":732.09,"endTime":734.73,"body":"and a half, because it's the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":734.73,"endTime":738.39,"body":"only response I have to how"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":734.73,"endTime":738.39,"body":"complicated it all is. And it"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":738.39,"endTime":747.84,"body":"doesn't, you know...? Your"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":738.39,"endTime":747.84,"body":"exhaustion, and frustration and"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":747.84,"endTime":753.81,"body":"sadness is very real, whether"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":747.84,"endTime":753.81,"body":"you've had a partner die of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":753.81,"endTime":757.92,"body":"COVID or if you've just stayed"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":753.81,"endTime":757.92,"body":"inside for over a year, you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":757.92,"endTime":763.89,"body":"know? I don't want to trivialize"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":757.92,"endTime":763.89,"body":"anyone's experience, or"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":763.89,"endTime":766.62,"body":"re-victimize people who have"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":763.89,"endTime":766.62,"body":"gone through something more"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":766.62,"endTime":772.86,"body":"intense. So, I'm looking for"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":766.62,"endTime":772.86,"body":"sort of metaphor and a universal"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":772.86,"endTime":777.57,"body":"connection to psychological"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":772.86,"endTime":777.57,"body":"states that Americans at least"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":777.57,"endTime":782.1,"body":"are taught to bury, or at least"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":777.57,"endTime":782.1,"body":"keep on the on the down low."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":782.94,"endTime":786.3,"body":"Sometimes my work as a result is"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":782.94,"endTime":786.3,"body":"hard to hang over a couch."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":788.13,"endTime":793.08,"body":"It's not a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":788.13,"endTime":793.08,"body":"rainbow? I actually was noticing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":793.68,"endTime":796.62,"body":"that there is a thread through a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":793.68,"endTime":796.62,"body":"good deal of your work that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":796.62,"endTime":800.97,"body":"touches on that tension between"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":796.62,"endTime":800.97,"body":"emotional turmoil and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":800.97,"endTime":807.93,"body":"resiliency. In Running and Panic"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":800.97,"endTime":807.93,"body":"Beach, and I heard you talk"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":807.93,"endTime":814.29,"body":"about Uprooted, a project that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":807.93,"endTime":814.29,"body":"you're working on and even the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":814.98,"endTime":817.89,"body":"the underlying images and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":814.98,"endTime":817.89,"body":"surface tension, the positive"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":817.89,"endTime":821.76,"body":"and negative aspects of touch"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":817.89,"endTime":821.76,"body":"that you talked about there. So"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":821.79,"endTime":825.48,"body":"what is it about that duality"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":821.79,"endTime":825.48,"body":"that interests you? And drives"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":825.48,"endTime":827.64,"body":"you to explore it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":825.48,"endTime":827.64,"body":"photographically?"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":828.23,"endTime":832.91,"body":"Well, without the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":828.23,"endTime":832.91,"body":"resiliency of the emotional"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":832.91,"endTime":835.76,"body":"turmoil and the difficult twist"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":832.91,"endTime":835.76,"body":"of everyday living, there's no"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":835.76,"endTime":842.39,"body":"hope. So, I am interested in"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":835.76,"endTime":842.39,"body":"people who pick themselves up,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":842.75,"endTime":845.18,"body":"and I'm sure that comes from"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":842.75,"endTime":845.18,"body":"being in the military, it's a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":845.18,"endTime":849.92,"body":"very pull yourself up by your"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":845.18,"endTime":849.92,"body":"bootstraps kind of upbringing."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":850.7,"endTime":858.2,"body":"But, I think grit is really"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":850.7,"endTime":858.2,"body":"important. I just, I really am"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":858.2,"endTime":863.99,"body":"struck by the amount of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":858.2,"endTime":863.99,"body":"catastrophe that people"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":864.02,"endTime":868.55,"body":"encounter and survive. And"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":864.02,"endTime":868.55,"body":"sometimes they don't survive it."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":869.33,"endTime":878.39,"body":"But, it moves me when I interact"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":869.33,"endTime":878.39,"body":"with somebody who has overcome"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":878.39,"endTime":886.16,"body":"something that seems just, you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":878.39,"endTime":886.16,"body":"know, insurmountable. And I felt"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":886.73,"endTime":890.87,"body":"like that was that's something"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":886.73,"endTime":890.87,"body":"to celebrate, but I think I do"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":890.87,"endTime":898.13,"body":"it in a bit of a dark way. Just"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":890.87,"endTime":898.13,"body":"visually, I like Caravaggio, I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":898.13,"endTime":903.17,"body":"like very chiaroscuro sort of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":898.13,"endTime":903.17,"body":"lighting situations, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":903.17,"endTime":907.85,"body":"people have referred to it as"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":903.17,"endTime":907.85,"body":"cinematic. But, I didn't go to"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":907.85,"endTime":911.81,"body":"film school. So I think it just"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":907.85,"endTime":911.81,"body":"comes from realizing that there"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":911.81,"endTime":916.1,"body":"are these polar opposites"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":911.81,"endTime":916.1,"body":"pulling us in different"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":916.1,"endTime":921.5,"body":"directions psychologically and"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":916.1,"endTime":921.5,"body":"just practically as well. And"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":921.5,"endTime":925.4,"body":"you have to be able to manage"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":921.5,"endTime":925.4,"body":"yourself in both. And I think,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":925.64,"endTime":929.27,"body":"after this year and a half, both"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":925.64,"endTime":929.27,"body":"because of COVID, and the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":929.27,"endTime":932.66,"body":"political situation in the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":929.27,"endTime":932.66,"body":"United States, I think most"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":932.66,"endTime":936.05,"body":"people have figured out that the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":932.66,"endTime":936.05,"body":"most rebellious, politically"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":936.05,"endTime":939.44,"body":"active, important thing you can"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":936.05,"endTime":939.44,"body":"do is figure out a way to be"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":939.44,"endTime":947.51,"body":"happy that is the most radical"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":939.44,"endTime":947.51,"body":"action. And, I phone-banked, I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":947.51,"endTime":950.93,"body":"did voter registration drives, I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":947.51,"endTime":950.93,"body":"did a lot of, you know, little"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":950.96,"endTime":955.49,"body":"tiny activism bits to do my"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":950.96,"endTime":955.49,"body":"part, so I wouldn't feel guilty"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":956.24,"endTime":958.61,"body":"if the election didn't turn out"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":956.24,"endTime":958.61,"body":"the way I wanted it to."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":958.63,"endTime":961.36,"body":"Right, like, how"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":958.63,"endTime":961.36,"body":"could that...? I mean, assuming"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":961.6,"endTime":966.79,"body":"you were on the side of good,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":961.6,"endTime":966.79,"body":"and wanted the election to turn"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":966.79,"endTime":970.78,"body":"out the way it did. Was it hard"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":966.79,"endTime":970.78,"body":"for you to sit on the sidelines"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":970.81,"endTime":971.23,"body":"in this?"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":972.99,"endTime":973.71,"body":"Oh my gosh, no,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":973.0,"endTime":979.72,"body":"I go out of my way to support"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":973.0,"endTime":979.72,"body":"independent journalism. But part"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":979.72,"endTime":983.53,"body":"of the reason I do that both,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":979.72,"endTime":983.53,"body":"you know, as a as a listener and"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":983.53,"endTime":989.14,"body":"as as a, you know, person who's"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":983.53,"endTime":989.14,"body":"on Patreon, helping the things"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":989.14,"endTime":993.13,"body":"that I listen to sustain"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":989.14,"endTime":993.13,"body":"themselves. It's because I am"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":993.13,"endTime":996.7,"body":"glad that they are doing it. And"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":993.13,"endTime":996.7,"body":"I'm not, you know, Madeline"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":996.7,"endTime":1000.99,"body":"Baron and the American Public"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":996.7,"endTime":1000.99,"body":"Media Group. I mean, what she"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1000.99,"endTime":1005.49,"body":"did within the dark and getting"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1000.99,"endTime":1005.49,"body":"that guy out of jail after being"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1005.49,"endTime":1007.98,"body":"on trial.... I mean, that is I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1005.49,"endTime":1007.98,"body":"never did that kind of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1007.98,"endTime":1012.6,"body":"journalism. That's really"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1007.98,"endTime":1012.6,"body":"important. That takes having so"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1012.6,"endTime":1016.56,"body":"many doors slammed in your face,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1012.6,"endTime":1016.56,"body":"having so many people tell you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1016.56,"endTime":1019.23,"body":"one thing, and then change their"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1016.56,"endTime":1019.23,"body":"minds and tell you another, you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1019.23,"endTime":1027.66,"body":"really have to stay on the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1019.23,"endTime":1027.66,"body":"ground for a long time. I really"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1027.66,"endTime":1033.39,"body":"admire that. And you have that,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1027.66,"endTime":1033.39,"body":"within this scope of social"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1033.39,"endTime":1038.43,"body":"media and people being canceled"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1033.39,"endTime":1038.43,"body":"and the Twitter universe, plus"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1038.43,"endTime":1043.98,"body":"our president, just being an"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1038.43,"endTime":1043.98,"body":"absolute narcissist and"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1044.1,"endTime":1050.34,"body":"demagogue?!? I can't imagine"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1044.1,"endTime":1050.34,"body":"working in that environment. I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1050.34,"endTime":1053.79,"body":"have no word. I'm not"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1050.34,"endTime":1053.79,"body":"temperamentally suited for the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1053.79,"endTime":1060.96,"body":"kind of active rage, and back"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1053.79,"endTime":1060.96,"body":"and forth, I need quiet. And,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1061.11,"endTime":1065.46,"body":"you know, I really needed to"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1061.11,"endTime":1065.46,"body":"research go to the library,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1065.46,"endTime":1068.94,"body":"think about what I was doing,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1065.46,"endTime":1068.94,"body":"see what else had been done on"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1068.94,"endTime":1074.7,"body":"the subject. I mean, I am"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1068.94,"endTime":1074.7,"body":"temperamentally suited to be an"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1074.7,"endTime":1079.71,"body":"artist in a studio, who works"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1074.7,"endTime":1079.71,"body":"with a camera and a darkroom all"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1079.71,"endTime":1086.97,"body":"alone. I can't imagine. I can't"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1079.71,"endTime":1086.97,"body":"imagine. It must be crazy making"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1086.97,"endTime":1090.39,"body":"in a way, because you have to"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1086.97,"endTime":1090.39,"body":"block out as many voices as"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1090.39,"endTime":1091.14,"body":"you're letting in."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1091.69,"endTime":1094.06,"body":"The focus on the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1091.69,"endTime":1094.06,"body":"rage, I think is really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1094.06,"endTime":1097.63,"body":"interesting because, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1094.06,"endTime":1097.63,"body":"you just said that, the thing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1097.63,"endTime":1102.73,"body":"that we could do would be to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1097.63,"endTime":1102.73,"body":"figure out a way to be happy in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1102.73,"endTime":1108.4,"body":"this just bizarre situation."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1102.73,"endTime":1108.4,"body":"But, the people that are really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1108.4,"endTime":1112.39,"body":"pushing these conversations"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1108.4,"endTime":1112.39,"body":"forward, you have to stay in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1112.39,"endTime":1117.4,"body":"that agitated state to be able"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1112.39,"endTime":1117.4,"body":"to have that tenacity to keep"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1117.4,"endTime":1121.84,"body":"going after it. And that's going"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1117.4,"endTime":1121.84,"body":"to be an impossible... For me,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1121.84,"endTime":1123.64,"body":"it would be an impossible place"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1121.84,"endTime":1123.64,"body":"to live."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1124.59,"endTime":1127.56,"body":"Right, I do think"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1124.59,"endTime":1127.56,"body":"that there are plenty of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1127.56,"endTime":1135.78,"body":"examples of people resisting"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1127.56,"endTime":1135.78,"body":"that in a very important way,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1135.87,"endTime":1139.56,"body":"the Black Lives Matter group,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1135.87,"endTime":1139.56,"body":"certainly. I mean, in every"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1139.56,"endTime":1141.93,"body":"group, you're going to have"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1139.56,"endTime":1141.93,"body":"really angry extremists. And"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1141.93,"endTime":1145.74,"body":"that's what motivates them to"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1141.93,"endTime":1145.74,"body":"participate. But, I would say I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1145.74,"endTime":1151.2,"body":"mean, look at especially what"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1145.74,"endTime":1151.2,"body":"they just finished in Georgia, I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1151.2,"endTime":1154.86,"body":"think that there are plenty of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1151.2,"endTime":1154.86,"body":"examples of people making real"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1154.86,"endTime":1159.09,"body":"change, and taking apart one"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1154.86,"endTime":1159.09,"body":"issue, whether it be abortion"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1159.09,"endTime":1164.7,"body":"rights in Ohio or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1159.09,"endTime":1164.7,"body":"women's rights, or I think that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1164.73,"endTime":1171.69,"body":"people have done really well"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1164.73,"endTime":1171.69,"body":"thought out resistance. And they"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1171.69,"endTime":1175.65,"body":"haven't stopped. I mean, there"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1171.69,"endTime":1175.65,"body":"was this great Rebecca Traister"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1175.65,"endTime":1178.08,"body":"article in New York Magazine"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1175.65,"endTime":1178.08,"body":"right after the election that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1178.08,"endTime":1183.54,"body":"just basically listed, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1178.08,"endTime":1183.54,"body":"31 different protests that have"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1183.54,"endTime":1187.59,"body":"just lined up, you've got, you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1183.54,"endTime":1187.59,"body":"know, the gun control, students,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1187.65,"endTime":1193.41,"body":"and abortion rights and trans"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1187.65,"endTime":1193.41,"body":"rights and it was just one after"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1193.41,"endTime":1198.6,"body":"the other and I think that that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1193.41,"endTime":1198.6,"body":"kind of tenacity will sustain"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1198.6,"endTime":1202.41,"body":"itself without the anger. And"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1198.6,"endTime":1202.41,"body":"there's always, I mean, there"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1202.41,"endTime":1206.1,"body":"will always be people who, you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1202.41,"endTime":1206.1,"body":"know, have that kind of rage,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1206.73,"endTime":1212.85,"body":"but, I'm hopeful that all the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1206.73,"endTime":1212.85,"body":"protests, were really making"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1212.85,"endTime":1216.54,"body":"little bits of change. There's"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1212.85,"endTime":1216.54,"body":"actually a researcher at Harvard"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1216.54,"endTime":1222.06,"body":"who study nonviolent social"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1216.54,"endTime":1222.06,"body":"resistance. And so they're"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1222.06,"endTime":1227.97,"body":"actually putting numbers on"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1222.06,"endTime":1227.97,"body":"whether this works over time, or"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1227.97,"endTime":1228.66,"body":"if it's..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1228.75,"endTime":1231.15,"body":"...So like the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1228.75,"endTime":1231.15,"body":"long term efficacy of a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1231.15,"endTime":1233.52,"body":"nonviolent kind of peaceful..."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1233.58,"endTime":1234.12,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1235.35,"endTime":1239.52,"body":"The voting efforts in Georgia"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1235.35,"endTime":1239.52,"body":"were very much a grassroots"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1239.91,"endTime":1243.45,"body":"movement. And Stacey Abrams gets"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1239.91,"endTime":1243.45,"body":"a lot of the credit. But, she's"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1243.45,"endTime":1246.9,"body":"the first to say that there were"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1243.45,"endTime":1246.9,"body":"all these other people and all"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1246.9,"endTime":1249.9,"body":"these other groups working in"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1246.9,"endTime":1249.9,"body":"unison, and that is the way they"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1249.9,"endTime":1254.67,"body":"got the results that they did."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1249.9,"endTime":1254.67,"body":"It wasn't about a figurehead."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1254.7,"endTime":1261.0,"body":"And, and I feel like they made"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1254.7,"endTime":1261.0,"body":"an effort to tell, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1261.0,"endTime":1264.54,"body":"white college students from out"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1261.0,"endTime":1264.54,"body":"of state to not move there,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1264.63,"endTime":1268.8,"body":"don't do this to us, we got"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1264.63,"endTime":1268.8,"body":"this, we have agency over our"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1268.86,"endTime":1276.72,"body":"own situation. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1268.86,"endTime":1276.72,"body":"that authenticity will come"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1276.72,"endTime":1280.41,"body":"through rather than a robo call,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1276.72,"endTime":1280.41,"body":"or a phone-banking call from"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1280.41,"endTime":1284.13,"body":"someone like me in California."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1280.41,"endTime":1284.13,"body":"So I just think people are"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1284.13,"endTime":1287.19,"body":"getting smarter and smarter"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1284.13,"endTime":1287.19,"body":"about this. That said, I was a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1287.19,"endTime":1292.59,"body":"little shocked by the news later"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1287.19,"endTime":1292.59,"body":"that day, that the Capital"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1292.59,"endTime":1293.4,"body":"building had been invaded."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1293.9,"endTime":1297.05,"body":"I know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1293.9,"endTime":1297.05,"body":"especially like living in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1297.05,"endTime":1301.97,"body":"Georgia, you know, through all"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1297.05,"endTime":1301.97,"body":"of this has been unbelievable."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1302.33,"endTime":1306.32,"body":"The number of handwritten"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1302.33,"endTime":1306.32,"body":"postcards I got about the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1306.32,"endTime":1312.44,"body":"importance of voting blew my"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1306.32,"endTime":1312.44,"body":"mind. It was amazing. And also,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1312.44,"endTime":1317.99,"body":"I guess Stacey Abrams is a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1312.44,"endTime":1317.99,"body":"perfect example of flipping that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1318.56,"endTime":1324.77,"body":"she was robbed in her election,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1318.56,"endTime":1324.77,"body":"and she took what could have or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1325.43,"endTime":1330.23,"body":"would have made me insane, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1325.43,"endTime":1330.23,"body":"know, and channeled it into this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1330.56,"endTime":1335.45,"body":"hugely positive thing. For the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1330.56,"endTime":1335.45,"body":"whole country. Unbelievable."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1335.51,"endTime":1339.32,"body":"Perfect example."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1335.51,"endTime":1339.32,"body":"Yeah, I have goosebumps. The"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1339.32,"endTime":1342.47,"body":"surface tension connection for"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1339.32,"endTime":1342.47,"body":"all of that there are a lot of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1342.47,"endTime":1346.46,"body":"protests, images in surface"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1342.47,"endTime":1346.46,"body":"tension, because I do feel like"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1346.46,"endTime":1350.51,"body":"there is a, you know, there's"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1346.46,"endTime":1350.51,"body":"clicktivism, there are ways to"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1350.51,"endTime":1354.56,"body":"feel like you're doing something"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1350.51,"endTime":1354.56,"body":"through the computer related to"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1354.56,"endTime":1360.02,"body":"social justice. And, and yet,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1354.56,"endTime":1360.02,"body":"it's also a way to, to, you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1360.02,"endTime":1364.37,"body":"know, bring people together and"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1360.02,"endTime":1364.37,"body":"and create a protest, right? So"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1364.37,"endTime":1369.11,"body":"so there's a somewhat negative"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1364.37,"endTime":1369.11,"body":"superficial relationship through"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1369.11,"endTime":1372.65,"body":"the computer to these images."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1369.11,"endTime":1372.65,"body":"But there's also a way to find a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1372.65,"endTime":1377.96,"body":"community. But one of the things"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1372.65,"endTime":1377.96,"body":"that really sticks in my head"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1378.08,"endTime":1381.74,"body":"through that series of, you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1378.08,"endTime":1381.74,"body":"know, it's sort of a chapter"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1381.74,"endTime":1386.45,"body":"within surface tension, I would"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1381.74,"endTime":1386.45,"body":"say, and is a quote from Bryan"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1386.45,"endTime":1391.61,"body":"Stevenson. And he said, \"You"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1386.45,"endTime":1391.61,"body":"know, we're all responsible for"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1391.61,"endTime":1396.2,"body":"creating possibilities of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1391.61,"endTime":1396.2,"body":"reconciliation, and repair.\" And"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1396.2,"endTime":1399.32,"body":"he said, he gets frustrated when"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1396.2,"endTime":1399.32,"body":"he hears people talking and"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1399.32,"endTime":1402.71,"body":"saying, Well, you know, if I'd"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1399.32,"endTime":1402.71,"body":"been living in the 60s, I would"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1402.71,"endTime":1404.57,"body":"have been right next to Martin"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1402.71,"endTime":1404.57,"body":"Luther King, I would have been"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1404.57,"endTime":1407.99,"body":"marching. I mean, I totally"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1404.57,"endTime":1407.99,"body":"envisioned myself on one of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1407.99,"endTime":1411.83,"body":"those buses, had I been old"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1407.99,"endTime":1411.83,"body":"enough, you know? But really, if"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1411.83,"endTime":1415.4,"body":"we're living now, like, what are"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1411.83,"endTime":1415.4,"body":"the things that we're doing now?"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1415.97,"endTime":1420.47,"body":"You can't claim that in the 60s,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1415.97,"endTime":1420.47,"body":"you would have been part of the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1420.47,"endTime":1424.67,"body":"Freedom Riders, if you're not"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1420.47,"endTime":1424.67,"body":"doing something to help the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1425.03,"endTime":1428.99,"body":"people who are incarcerated"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1425.03,"endTime":1428.99,"body":"unfairly now. You can't, you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1428.99,"endTime":1431.33,"body":"know, these things are"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1428.99,"endTime":1431.33,"body":"destroying communities, and a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1431.33,"endTime":1435.56,"body":"lot of us are doing nothing. And"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1431.33,"endTime":1435.56,"body":"he says it more brilliantly than"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1435.56,"endTime":1439.85,"body":"that. But that's the idea that I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1435.56,"endTime":1439.85,"body":"think that the computer and"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1439.85,"endTime":1444.23,"body":"technology can get in the way"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1439.85,"endTime":1444.23,"body":"of, you can sort of anesthetize"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1444.23,"endTime":1451.55,"body":"yourself from action by"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1444.23,"endTime":1451.55,"body":"submerging yourself in all these"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1451.55,"endTime":1452.24,"body":"images."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1452.66,"endTime":1455.03,"body":"You can also"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1452.66,"endTime":1455.03,"body":"feel like you're doing something"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1455.03,"endTime":1459.53,"body":"just by sharing an article on"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1455.03,"endTime":1459.53,"body":"Facebook. When you're not"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1459.56,"endTime":1462.41,"body":"actually moving the needle. You"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1459.56,"endTime":1462.41,"body":"know, you're not doing the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1462.41,"endTime":1464.72,"body":"harder work that has to get"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1462.41,"endTime":1464.72,"body":"done."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1464.99,"endTime":1468.44,"body":"Yeah. And I think"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1464.99,"endTime":1468.44,"body":"because of all these pictures,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1468.44,"endTime":1471.59,"body":"it's easier to create that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1468.44,"endTime":1471.59,"body":"visual narrative in our head."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1472.02,"endTime":1474.66,"body":"Right, like that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1472.02,"endTime":1474.66,"body":"you're there. You're part of it."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1474.78,"endTime":1480.24,"body":"Yeah. And I mean,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1474.78,"endTime":1480.24,"body":"I'm, as guilty of it as anybody"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1480.24,"endTime":1480.69,"body":"else."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1481.71,"endTime":1484.71,"body":"So switching"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1481.71,"endTime":1484.71,"body":"gears, although this was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1484.71,"endTime":1489.33,"body":"awesome. You've had an"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1484.71,"endTime":1489.33,"body":"experience that's relatable to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1489.36,"endTime":1491.97,"body":"not an insignificant number of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1489.36,"endTime":1491.97,"body":"photographers where you've had a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1491.97,"endTime":1495.51,"body":"successful first career, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1491.97,"endTime":1495.51,"body":"then began photographing as a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1495.51,"endTime":1499.41,"body":"second career. in navigating all"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1495.51,"endTime":1499.41,"body":"of that, what would you say was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1499.41,"endTime":1502.44,"body":"your biggest wrong turn? And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1499.41,"endTime":1502.44,"body":"what did you learn from it?"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1506.39,"endTime":1508.37,"body":"I'm having a hard"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1506.39,"endTime":1508.37,"body":"time answering that question"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1508.37,"endTime":1512.84,"body":"because there's not just one"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1508.37,"endTime":1512.84,"body":"wrong turn, that comes to mind,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1512.9,"endTime":1520.58,"body":"I feel like I'm making wrong"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1512.9,"endTime":1520.58,"body":"turns all the time. And I, I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1520.58,"endTime":1526.34,"body":"struggle with the same wrong"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1520.58,"endTime":1526.34,"body":"turn over and over again. So,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1526.46,"endTime":1532.34,"body":"for me, I think that my heart is"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1526.46,"endTime":1532.34,"body":"so wrapped up in the pictures"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1532.34,"endTime":1534.38,"body":"that I take. I mean, I'm"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1532.34,"endTime":1534.38,"body":"exploring things"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1534.38,"endTime":1539.21,"body":"psychologically, but also, it is"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1534.38,"endTime":1539.21,"body":"about opening up myself in my"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1539.21,"endTime":1546.5,"body":"own interior life in a way that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1539.21,"endTime":1546.5,"body":"journalism did not. And so I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1546.5,"endTime":1550.46,"body":"feel very vulnerable to the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1546.5,"endTime":1550.46,"body":"world, when my pictures are"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1550.46,"endTime":1554.27,"body":"shown, I'm always the last"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1550.46,"endTime":1554.27,"body":"person to go to my own opening,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1554.27,"endTime":1558.2,"body":"you know, I have a lot of social"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1554.27,"endTime":1558.2,"body":"anxiety about that, that I did"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1558.2,"endTime":1560.84,"body":"not have when I'm walking into"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1558.2,"endTime":1560.84,"body":"the Oval Office to talk to a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1560.84,"endTime":1561.41,"body":"president."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1563.06,"endTime":1564.32,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1563.06,"endTime":1564.32,"body":"interesting, because it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1564.32,"endTime":1567.32,"body":"about you. You're getting"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1564.32,"endTime":1567.32,"body":"someone to talk about them."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1567.36,"endTime":1569.76,"body":"Exactly. Yes."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1569.88,"endTime":1571.83,"body":"When you talk"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1569.88,"endTime":1571.83,"body":"about the same wrong turn you've"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1571.83,"endTime":1574.11,"body":"made over and over what is that?"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1574.81,"endTime":1580.54,"body":"The wrong turn"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1574.81,"endTime":1580.54,"body":"that I struggle with is caring"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1580.75,"endTime":1586.3,"body":"about what people think, in"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1580.75,"endTime":1586.3,"body":"terms of my art, I don't mean in"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1586.3,"endTime":1595.99,"body":"terms of, you know, how I behave"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1586.3,"endTime":1595.99,"body":"in the world. But, it is a knee"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1595.99,"endTime":1600.22,"body":"jerk reaction, to assume that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1595.99,"endTime":1600.22,"body":"someone doesn't like the work,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1600.22,"endTime":1607.93,"body":"or it's not good enough, or it"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1600.22,"endTime":1607.93,"body":"isn't pleasing, or, or it's not,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1608.77,"endTime":1613.51,"body":"right for that show. And"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1608.77,"endTime":1613.51,"body":"sometimes, if I would just hold"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1613.87,"endTime":1622.42,"body":"that beating myself up impulse"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1613.87,"endTime":1622.42,"body":"for 24 hours, I get the answer I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1622.42,"endTime":1627.58,"body":"want. You know? Later, like, I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1622.42,"endTime":1627.58,"body":"wasn't at the top of their"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1627.58,"endTime":1630.91,"body":"agenda. I'm sitting there"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1627.58,"endTime":1630.91,"body":"waiting, you know, like with"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1630.91,"endTime":1634.12,"body":"bated breath. And they are, you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1630.91,"endTime":1634.12,"body":"know, in the hospital with their"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1634.12,"endTime":1637.6,"body":"father and colon cancer or"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1634.12,"endTime":1637.6,"body":"something. Like, they've got"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1637.6,"endTime":1645.97,"body":"bigger things to think about. So"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1637.6,"endTime":1645.97,"body":"I, I remember, the first time I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1646.0,"endTime":1653.14,"body":"had a gallery show, and some of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1646.0,"endTime":1653.14,"body":"the work sold before it even"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1653.17,"endTime":1657.01,"body":"opened, which I was confused"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1653.17,"endTime":1657.01,"body":"about, because I kind of thought"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1657.01,"endTime":1660.7,"body":"they'd have to see the whole"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1657.01,"endTime":1660.7,"body":"reason I paid a fortune to have"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1660.7,"endTime":1664.81,"body":"them mounted and frame was"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1660.7,"endTime":1664.81,"body":"because I thought you'd want to"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1664.81,"endTime":1668.77,"body":"see them in space, but whatever,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1664.81,"endTime":1668.77,"body":"happy that some of them sold."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1668.83,"endTime":1672.19,"body":"And then, by the time that we"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1668.83,"endTime":1672.19,"body":"were taking the show down, it"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1672.19,"endTime":1675.19,"body":"wasn't all sold out. And I don't"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1672.19,"endTime":1675.19,"body":"think I necessarily expected"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1675.19,"endTime":1679.9,"body":"that, but I expected more sales."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1675.19,"endTime":1679.9,"body":"And the photographer Richard"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1679.9,"endTime":1686.71,"body":"Misrach, lives a couple blocks"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1679.9,"endTime":1686.71,"body":"away and so he has given me a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1687.04,"endTime":1692.89,"body":"perspective when I've needed it."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1687.04,"endTime":1692.89,"body":"And he said, I was really bummed"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1692.92,"endTime":1696.76,"body":"after..., it was either after"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1692.92,"endTime":1696.76,"body":"the opening or after the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1696.76,"endTime":1700.21,"body":"deinstallation, I can't remember"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1696.76,"endTime":1700.21,"body":"and he said \"You didn't schedule"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1700.21,"endTime":1703.66,"body":"a shoot?\" I'm like what he's"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1700.21,"endTime":1703.66,"body":"like, \"Oh, you always have to"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1703.66,"endTime":1708.46,"body":"schedule a shoot on that day.\""},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1703.66,"endTime":1708.46,"body":"Like, why? He said, \"Because"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1708.76,"endTime":1711.64,"body":"you're gonna have the blues,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1708.76,"endTime":1711.64,"body":"like, everyone knows that,\" I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1711.64,"endTime":1715.75,"body":"was like, damn it, I didn't get"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1711.64,"endTime":1715.75,"body":"the memo. But he's like, \"You're"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1715.75,"endTime":1718.99,"body":"gonna feel like you just spent"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1715.75,"endTime":1718.99,"body":"all this time, all these years,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1718.99,"endTime":1721.75,"body":"working on this project, and"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1718.99,"endTime":1721.75,"body":"then it went up. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1721.75,"endTime":1724.36,"body":"and it didn't change the world,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1721.75,"endTime":1724.36,"body":"or you're, you know, you're not"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1724.36,"endTime":1731.14,"body":"in MoMA, or whatever the bar is"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1724.36,"endTime":1731.14,"body":"for your art forum. And you're"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1731.14,"endTime":1735.46,"body":"gonna, it's gonna suck that day."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1731.14,"endTime":1735.46,"body":"So, so schedule a shoot and make"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1735.46,"endTime":1737.74,"body":"some work because that's what"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1735.46,"endTime":1737.74,"body":"it's about. And that's what"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1737.74,"endTime":1741.46,"body":"makes you happy, really.\" I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1737.74,"endTime":1741.46,"body":"thought, Oh, such a good idea."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1741.46,"endTime":1744.16,"body":"So of course, I always do that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1741.46,"endTime":1744.16,"body":"now. But the other thing he"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1744.16,"endTime":1749.86,"body":"said; this was with the running"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1744.16,"endTime":1749.86,"body":"work. He said, \"Sometimes it"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1749.86,"endTime":1753.61,"body":"just takes a while.\" And I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1749.86,"endTime":1753.61,"body":"thought, Oh, he's just trying to"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1753.61,"endTime":1759.37,"body":"be nice. You know, he's just"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1753.61,"endTime":1759.37,"body":"saying that. And he's right."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1759.7,"endTime":1763.3,"body":"Like the pictures have taken on"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1759.7,"endTime":1763.3,"body":"different contexts. Because of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1763.3,"endTime":1766.87,"body":"COVID. There's these isolated"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1763.3,"endTime":1766.87,"body":"people freaking out and they're"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1766.87,"endTime":1771.58,"body":"outside and they're running and"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1766.87,"endTime":1771.58,"body":"like that situation. The the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1771.58,"endTime":1777.31,"body":"societal constraints of this"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1771.58,"endTime":1777.31,"body":"moment, inform those pictures"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1777.31,"endTime":1781.12,"body":"from years ago, in a way that I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1777.31,"endTime":1781.12,"body":"couldn't have anticipated. And"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1781.12,"endTime":1785.35,"body":"then somebody put them in a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1781.12,"endTime":1785.35,"body":"book, and then GQ wanted to"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1785.35,"endTime":1789.64,"body":"publish a portfolio. And then,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1785.35,"endTime":1789.64,"body":"you know, like it just, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1789.64,"endTime":1792.67,"body":"thinking what I've had these"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1789.64,"endTime":1792.67,"body":"things sitting in storage,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1793.57,"endTime":1799.12,"body":"really, for seven years, they're"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1793.57,"endTime":1799.12,"body":"available. I felt like maybe"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1799.12,"endTime":1801.97,"body":"they weren't as good as I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1799.12,"endTime":1801.97,"body":"thought they were. And I just"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1801.97,"endTime":1804.28,"body":"sort of thought, oh, well, that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1801.97,"endTime":1804.28,"body":"was my starter project, you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1804.28,"endTime":1809.47,"body":"know? But, still when I take"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1804.28,"endTime":1809.47,"body":"them out, I still am kind of,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1809.53,"endTime":1814.3,"body":"like swooning over them. I just"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1809.53,"endTime":1814.3,"body":"really like them. You know,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1814.3,"endTime":1816.46,"body":"other people don't have to like"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1814.3,"endTime":1816.46,"body":"it, it's okay. And I'll try to"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1816.46,"endTime":1819.4,"body":"talk myself into the mindset"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1816.46,"endTime":1819.4,"body":"that I think other photographers"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1819.4,"endTime":1822.82,"body":"have. Because I have seen"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1819.4,"endTime":1822.82,"body":"photographers with so much more"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1822.82,"endTime":1826.03,"body":"swagger than me. They just, you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1822.82,"endTime":1826.03,"body":"know, I can have swagger in the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1826.03,"endTime":1830.26,"body":"Oval Office or with Arafat, you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1826.03,"endTime":1830.26,"body":"know, covering soldiers and"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1830.26,"endTime":1834.31,"body":"peacekeeping missions in Bosnia,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1830.26,"endTime":1834.31,"body":"like there's something about my"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1834.31,"endTime":1837.31,"body":"temperament that I'm really good"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1834.31,"endTime":1837.31,"body":"at thinking on my feet in that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1837.31,"endTime":1845.26,"body":"situation. But, when it's my"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1837.31,"endTime":1845.26,"body":"interior life exposed, and, you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1845.26,"endTime":1849.64,"body":"know, people aren't feeling the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1845.26,"endTime":1849.64,"body":"triumph or exhibiting the kind"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1849.64,"endTime":1855.34,"body":"of enthusiasm that I feel inside"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1849.64,"endTime":1855.34,"body":"about it, it's just really"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1855.34,"endTime":1859.72,"body":"heartbreaking. If I could figure"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1855.34,"endTime":1859.72,"body":"out a way to not be that way,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1859.75,"endTime":1861.34,"body":"I'd be so much happier."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1863.29,"endTime":1866.14,"body":"So what would"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1863.29,"endTime":1866.14,"body":"you say was the best decision"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1866.14,"endTime":1869.14,"body":"you made? And did you see it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1866.14,"endTime":1869.14,"body":"that way at the time?"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1872.21,"endTime":1875.57,"body":"Well, the thing I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1872.21,"endTime":1875.57,"body":"think is the best decision that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1875.57,"endTime":1880.37,"body":"I made, I still think that other"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1875.57,"endTime":1880.37,"body":"people will not think it's the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1880.37,"endTime":1889.43,"body":"best decision I've ever made."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1880.37,"endTime":1889.43,"body":"So, I'm interested mainly in"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1889.52,"endTime":1894.83,"body":"fine art photography. But, if"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1889.52,"endTime":1894.83,"body":"Kathy Ryan from the New York"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1894.83,"endTime":1898.19,"body":"Times Magazine calls me or"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1894.83,"endTime":1898.19,"body":"there's a photo editor at Wired,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1898.19,"endTime":1901.1,"body":"who's phenomenal, there are"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1898.19,"endTime":1901.1,"body":"people who can get me on the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1901.1,"endTime":1905.96,"body":"phone and asked me to do an"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1901.1,"endTime":1905.96,"body":"assignment. And I will do it."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1906.98,"endTime":1910.34,"body":"And I want to please them. So"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1906.98,"endTime":1910.34,"body":"the work turns out really good,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1910.34,"endTime":1914.75,"body":"because I admire them so much,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1910.34,"endTime":1914.75,"body":"and like working with them. And,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1916.31,"endTime":1922.22,"body":"there are plenty of people in"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1916.31,"endTime":1922.22,"body":"the art world who would who look"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1922.22,"endTime":1926.75,"body":"down on editorial photography."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1922.22,"endTime":1926.75,"body":"So I've I managed to continue"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1926.75,"endTime":1931.34,"body":"doing that. In addition, I have"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1926.75,"endTime":1931.34,"body":"projects that are sort of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1931.34,"endTime":1935.18,"body":"documentary, in nature. The"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1931.34,"endTime":1935.18,"body":"Uprooted project, I've been"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1935.18,"endTime":1939.59,"body":"taking pictures in New Orleans,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1935.18,"endTime":1939.59,"body":"post Katrina, because I took an"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1939.59,"endTime":1945.71,"body":"editorial assignment from Kathy"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1939.59,"endTime":1945.71,"body":"Ryan like days after Katrina"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1945.71,"endTime":1949.82,"body":"hit, and the levees broke. So we"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1945.71,"endTime":1949.82,"body":"we had to sneak in, basically."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1950.18,"endTime":1954.98,"body":"But, I've been shooting those"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1950.18,"endTime":1954.98,"body":"same places for 20 years. And it"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1954.98,"endTime":1957.47,"body":"has amounted to something"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1954.98,"endTime":1957.47,"body":"there's plenty of boring"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1957.47,"endTime":1960.41,"body":"pictures in there, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1957.47,"endTime":1960.41,"body":"when the place does not change a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1960.41,"endTime":1963.59,"body":"bit from year to year, those"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1960.41,"endTime":1963.59,"body":"pictures are not very exciting."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1963.68,"endTime":1965.78,"body":"But, when you've got 10 years,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1963.68,"endTime":1965.78,"body":"and the only thing that has"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1965.78,"endTime":1968.63,"body":"changed is the length, the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1965.78,"endTime":1968.63,"body":"height of the grass. That's"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1968.63,"endTime":1971.57,"body":"interesting. Yeah, so there's a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1968.63,"endTime":1971.57,"body":"certain amount of like just"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1971.57,"endTime":1977.12,"body":"slogging through the middle"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1971.57,"endTime":1977.12,"body":"section to get to the arc. And,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1977.15,"endTime":1980.24,"body":"that same thing happened with my"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1977.15,"endTime":1980.24,"body":"baseball players. I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1980.24,"endTime":1982.46,"body":"don't really like baseball, I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1980.24,"endTime":1982.46,"body":"don't have a lot of friends like"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1982.46,"endTime":1987.98,"body":"sports. So it was always like an"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1982.46,"endTime":1987.98,"body":"odd thing. And the art world is"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1987.98,"endTime":1990.68,"body":"comprised of people who were"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1987.98,"endTime":1990.68,"body":"beat up by jocks in high school."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1990.68,"endTime":1996.59,"body":"So it's not exactly an easy"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1990.68,"endTime":1996.59,"body":"sell. To me, it was about"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1996.59,"endTime":2001.81,"body":"Manifest Destiny, and effort,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":1996.59,"endTime":2001.81,"body":"and trying to be number one."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2001.0,"endTime":2003.07,"body":"And putting"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2001.0,"endTime":2003.07,"body":"yourself out there."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2003.0,"endTime":2005.22,"body":"Yes, a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2003.0,"endTime":2005.22,"body":"psychological state. But you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2005.22,"endTime":2007.86,"body":"know, you can't get around the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2005.22,"endTime":2007.86,"body":"fact that everybody's in a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2007.86,"endTime":2012.24,"body":"uniform, and they have a bat in"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2007.86,"endTime":2012.24,"body":"their hand. So that had people"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2012.24,"endTime":2015.57,"body":"scratching their heads, even"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2012.24,"endTime":2015.57,"body":"though I did a book with"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2015.57,"endTime":2019.5,"body":"Aperture. And it was, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2015.57,"endTime":2019.5,"body":"they printed 5000 copies, and it"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2019.5,"endTime":2025.59,"body":"was a huge thing. But, it's"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2019.5,"endTime":2025.59,"body":"still it's baseball. So people"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2025.59,"endTime":2029.13,"body":"are skeptical about that. Then I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2025.59,"endTime":2029.13,"body":"do have work, that's purely fine"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2029.13,"endTime":2032.97,"body":"art, and that has been supported"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2029.13,"endTime":2032.97,"body":"by institutions and bought by"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2032.97,"endTime":2040.83,"body":"museums and, and so the work"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2032.97,"endTime":2040.83,"body":"doesn't all look the same. But"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2040.83,"endTime":2045.12,"body":"it all of it means a lot to me."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2040.83,"endTime":2045.12,"body":"The best decision for me is to"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2045.12,"endTime":2048.48,"body":"have a lot of, I have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2045.12,"endTime":2048.48,"body":"tools in the shed, and I try to"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2048.48,"endTime":2053.01,"body":"use them all. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2048.48,"endTime":2053.01,"body":"if you narrow yourself down to"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2053.01,"endTime":2061.62,"body":"okay, I'm the guy who takes"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2053.01,"endTime":2061.62,"body":"pictures of fog at night. It's"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2061.62,"endTime":2065.52,"body":"hard to get out of that and you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2061.62,"endTime":2065.52,"body":"can be really successful but I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2065.52,"endTime":2073.62,"body":"think it's a short term"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2065.52,"endTime":2073.62,"body":"situation. I think it's easier"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2073.62,"endTime":2076.35,"body":"to be known for something so"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2073.62,"endTime":2076.35,"body":"collectors want to take that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2076.35,"endTime":2079.74,"body":"picture and put it over their"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2076.35,"endTime":2079.74,"body":"couch or their at their mantel"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2079.74,"endTime":2082.62,"body":"because when their guests walk"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2079.74,"endTime":2082.62,"body":"in they go \"Oh, isn't that a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2082.62,"endTime":2086.76,"body":"Baldessari,\" or you know,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2082.62,"endTime":2086.76,"body":"whatever it is, but the the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2086.76,"endTime":2093.72,"body":"artists that I admire are people"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2086.76,"endTime":2093.72,"body":"who, they're a bit of a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2093.72,"endTime":2098.67,"body":"shapeshifter. And it takes a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2093.72,"endTime":2098.67,"body":"longer time to build a career"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2098.67,"endTime":2102.78,"body":"under that situation. You're not"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2098.67,"endTime":2102.78,"body":"gonna be, I will never be the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2102.78,"endTime":2106.26,"body":"hot young thing because I'm no"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2102.78,"endTime":2106.26,"body":"longer young. But I'm planning"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2106.26,"endTime":2108.18,"body":"on being the hot octogenarian."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2110.19,"endTime":2113.85,"body":"So musicians are"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2110.19,"endTime":2113.85,"body":"similar, right, like, bands get"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2113.85,"endTime":2117.93,"body":"shit on for doing their"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2113.85,"endTime":2117.93,"body":"experimental album. But I mean,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2117.93,"endTime":2122.4,"body":"you can see bands that have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2117.93,"endTime":2122.4,"body":"taken risks over time and you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2122.4,"endTime":2126.03,"body":"look at how different one album"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2122.4,"endTime":2126.03,"body":"can be from the other, but"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2126.03,"endTime":2131.19,"body":"you're right, you need a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2126.03,"endTime":2131.19,"body":"that volume to round it out and,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2132.33,"endTime":2136.17,"body":"and have kind of a canon of work"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2132.33,"endTime":2136.17,"body":"that all fits together."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2136.51,"endTime":2139.45,"body":"Yeah. And there"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2136.51,"endTime":2139.45,"body":"are middle stages, you know,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2139.45,"endTime":2144.58,"body":"that Lou Reed's experimental"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2139.45,"endTime":2144.58,"body":"album? You know, was required"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2144.58,"endTime":2148.06,"body":"for him to get to the next one,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2144.58,"endTime":2148.06,"body":"or David Bowie or, you know...?"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2148.15,"endTime":2158.26,"body":"But, it's more awkward. It's a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2148.15,"endTime":2158.26,"body":"more awkward way to move through"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2158.26,"endTime":2162.82,"body":"the world because it's hard to"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2158.26,"endTime":2162.82,"body":"sum up what you do in a sentence"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2162.82,"endTime":2166.87,"body":"or two. But, for me the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2162.82,"endTime":2166.87,"body":"projects, they just come out"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2166.87,"endTime":2172.24,"body":"that way. So, I mean, this this"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2166.87,"endTime":2172.24,"body":"next body of work, I'm looking"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2172.24,"endTime":2183.67,"body":"at Turner paintings, I'm looking"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2172.24,"endTime":2183.67,"body":"at a lot of painterly work,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2183.67,"endTime":2187.51,"body":"because I'm trying to take"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2183.67,"endTime":2187.51,"body":"something that's quite ugly, but"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2187.51,"endTime":2191.08,"body":"yet that we are very attracted"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2187.51,"endTime":2191.08,"body":"to looking at you know, the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2191.08,"endTime":2194.86,"body":"rubbernecking on a highway when"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2191.08,"endTime":2194.86,"body":"you have a car crash? How do I,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2195.61,"endTime":2199.54,"body":"how do I turn that from"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2195.61,"endTime":2199.54,"body":"something quotidian into art?"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2199.9,"endTime":2204.16,"body":"And how do I have it be a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2199.9,"endTime":2204.16,"body":"metaphor for something besides"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2204.19,"endTime":2212.53,"body":"just an accident, and that does"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2204.19,"endTime":2212.53,"body":"not look like my 10 types of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2212.53,"endTime":2213.37,"body":"baseball players,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2213.48,"endTime":2214.02,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2214.93,"endTime":2218.2,"body":"And it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2214.93,"endTime":2218.2,"body":"look like the houses in New"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2218.2,"endTime":2225.91,"body":"Orleans. And you know, if I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2218.2,"endTime":2225.91,"body":"twisted everything into doing"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2225.91,"endTime":2229.15,"body":"that it would be bad, it would"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2225.91,"endTime":2229.15,"body":"just seem hollow. I'm just"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2229.15,"endTime":2231.76,"body":"trying to make something that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2229.15,"endTime":2231.76,"body":"you haven't seen before. You"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2231.76,"endTime":2235.15,"body":"know, the one of the benefits of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2231.76,"endTime":2235.15,"body":"being older is that I have an"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2235.15,"endTime":2238.45,"body":"incredible amount of art history"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2235.15,"endTime":2238.45,"body":"in my brain. I have an"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2238.45,"endTime":2240.25,"body":"incredible amount of visual"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2238.45,"endTime":2240.25,"body":"history. And I have an"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2240.25,"endTime":2244.96,"body":"incredible amount of you know,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2240.25,"endTime":2244.96,"body":"just images, pictures, a Rolodex"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2244.96,"endTime":2250.93,"body":"of images. So, it makes me"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2244.96,"endTime":2250.93,"body":"slower to take a picture because"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2250.93,"endTime":2255.07,"body":"it's been taken before. And I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2250.93,"endTime":2255.07,"body":"know it has, so why bother?"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2255.19,"endTime":2259.39,"body":"Yeah, I'll never forget, I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2255.19,"endTime":2259.39,"body":"dragged my daughter to help me"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2259.39,"endTime":2263.38,"body":"with my flash someplace in"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2259.39,"endTime":2263.38,"body":"Hawaii. And she was taking"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2263.38,"endTime":2267.61,"body":"digital photography class at the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2263.38,"endTime":2267.61,"body":"time, too. And she had her"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2267.61,"endTime":2271.51,"body":"camera and I had mine. And I was"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2267.61,"endTime":2271.51,"body":"of course making us be out in"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2271.51,"endTime":2274.21,"body":"the stormy weather and it's"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2271.51,"endTime":2274.21,"body":"raining and it's sunny, and it's"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2274.21,"endTime":2277.54,"body":"rainy, and it's sunny, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2274.21,"endTime":2277.54,"body":"making her hike. And she's like,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2277.57,"endTime":2280.78,"body":"\"God, Mom, why do you have to"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2277.57,"endTime":2280.78,"body":"make everything so hard?\" I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2280.78,"endTime":2283.96,"body":"said, because, the easy pictures"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2280.78,"endTime":2283.96,"body":"have all been taken. And then"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2283.96,"endTime":2288.61,"body":"this rainbow came out. And she"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2283.96,"endTime":2288.61,"body":"grabbed her camera, and I almost"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2288.61,"endTime":2291.91,"body":"slapped it out of her hand and"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2288.61,"endTime":2291.91,"body":"turned around and all the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2291.91,"endTime":2295.78,"body":"tourists on the cliff that we"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2291.91,"endTime":2295.78,"body":"had just climbed down were all"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2295.78,"endTime":2298.21,"body":"with their cameras taking"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2295.78,"endTime":2298.21,"body":"pictures of this rainbow. I was"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2298.21,"endTime":2303.04,"body":"like, don't you ever take...,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2298.21,"endTime":2303.04,"body":"(laughs) buy the postcard at the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2303.04,"endTime":2309.94,"body":"store. Nobody needs that you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2303.04,"endTime":2309.94,"body":"know?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2310.02,"endTime":2314.91,"body":"That's amazing."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2310.02,"endTime":2314.91,"body":"So last question. Over the last"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2314.91,"endTime":2318.9,"body":"few years, especially, you've"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2314.91,"endTime":2318.9,"body":"had a hugely successful book"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2319.17,"endTime":2322.92,"body":"published by Aperture, which you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2319.17,"endTime":2322.92,"body":"talked about,  your first museum"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2322.92,"endTime":2328.29,"body":"show, the solo show at"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2322.92,"endTime":2328.29,"body":"Transformer Station. Where are"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2328.29,"endTime":2332.46,"body":"you setting your sights next? I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2328.29,"endTime":2332.46,"body":"mean, I feel like you've got a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2332.46,"endTime":2336.3,"body":"book, your museum show, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2332.46,"endTime":2336.3,"body":"know, do you feel like you have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2336.39,"endTime":2341.73,"body":"hit the highlights that you hope"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2336.39,"endTime":2341.73,"body":"to? Or do you? Does that bar"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2341.73,"endTime":2342.81,"body":"just keep getting higher?"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2344.94,"endTime":2348.99,"body":"I think by"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2344.94,"endTime":2348.99,"body":"nature, I am very ambitious."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2350.64,"endTime":2355.53,"body":"But, I also get a lot of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2350.64,"endTime":2355.53,"body":"feedback from the art world that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2355.53,"endTime":2359.52,"body":"you're supposed to pretend"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2355.53,"endTime":2359.52,"body":"you're not [ambitious], at least"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2360.33,"endTime":2363.99,"body":"I find that toward women. I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2360.33,"endTime":2363.99,"body":"don't find it toward men as"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2363.99,"endTime":2367.92,"body":"much. So I don't have an answer"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2363.99,"endTime":2367.92,"body":"to that question because I try"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2367.92,"endTime":2374.76,"body":"to bury those feelings. I would"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2367.92,"endTime":2374.76,"body":"say that what I have learned by"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2374.76,"endTime":2383.82,"body":"juggling shows and books and"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2374.76,"endTime":2383.82,"body":"editorial work is that I'm"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2383.82,"endTime":2388.5,"body":"happiest when I'm working with"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2383.82,"endTime":2388.5,"body":"somebody who I like. I did a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2388.5,"endTime":2392.43,"body":"book with Yoffy Press and the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2388.5,"endTime":2392.43,"body":"people that you paired me up"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2392.43,"endTime":2397.35,"body":"with, I really liked their work"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2392.43,"endTime":2397.35,"body":"and I've been in continued"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2397.35,"endTime":2400.77,"body":"conversation with Penelope"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2397.35,"endTime":2400.77,"body":"Umbrico since that. And that's"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2400.86,"endTime":2408.0,"body":"what makes me feel happy. The"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2400.86,"endTime":2408.0,"body":"woman that I'm working with on a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2408.0,"endTime":2413.04,"body":"Mills College show, I have a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2408.0,"endTime":2413.04,"body":"solo show coming up there in the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2413.04,"endTime":2419.04,"body":"fall, theoretically. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2413.04,"endTime":2419.04,"body":"part of a show at Pier 24. And"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2419.04,"endTime":2423.54,"body":"I'm at the San Francisco Airport"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2419.04,"endTime":2423.54,"body":"Museum. They were all supposed"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2423.54,"endTime":2425.67,"body":"to be three separate shows, but"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2423.54,"endTime":2425.67,"body":"they are all piled on top of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2425.67,"endTime":2433.38,"body":"each other now. But, the people"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2425.67,"endTime":2433.38,"body":"who are curating those shows,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2433.59,"endTime":2438.96,"body":"who I'm planning that with it,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2433.59,"endTime":2438.96,"body":"it really just makes a huge"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2438.96,"endTime":2442.47,"body":"difference when I like the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2438.96,"endTime":2442.47,"body":"people I'm working with."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2442.6,"endTime":2451.63,"body":"So, I have discovered in the art"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2442.6,"endTime":2451.63,"body":"world that there are a lot of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2451.63,"endTime":2457.69,"body":"very intellectual introverts who"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2451.63,"endTime":2457.69,"body":"teach me a lot. And they're not"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2457.72,"endTime":2461.77,"body":"necessarily flying around to art"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2457.72,"endTime":2461.77,"body":"fairs. They're not running a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2461.77,"endTime":2465.94,"body":"gallery and working with a PR"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2461.77,"endTime":2465.94,"body":"person and trying to get on the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2465.94,"endTime":2470.05,"body":"cover of Art Forum. There's not"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2465.94,"endTime":2470.05,"body":"this breathless, like \"too cool"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2470.05,"endTime":2473.65,"body":"for school\" attitude, they don't"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2470.05,"endTime":2473.65,"body":"have asymmetrical haircuts and,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2474.7,"endTime":2478.48,"body":"you know, funky glasses. There's"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2474.7,"endTime":2478.48,"body":"a whole crowd of those people"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2478.48,"endTime":2482.5,"body":"out there that want to discuss"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2478.48,"endTime":2482.5,"body":"whether, you know, Korbe"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2482.5,"endTime":2487.36,"body":"actually knew anything about the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2482.5,"endTime":2487.36,"body":"water. Like, those are my"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2487.36,"endTime":2493.06,"body":"people. And the more I can work"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2487.36,"endTime":2493.06,"body":"on projects with those types of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2493.06,"endTime":2497.23,"body":"people, the happier I will be."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2493.06,"endTime":2497.23,"body":"And it really just does focus"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2497.23,"endTime":2500.35,"body":"right back down to the art"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2497.23,"endTime":2500.35,"body":"instead of the art business."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2500.41,"endTime":2500.95,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2502.37,"endTime":2505.31,"body":"There's a phase"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2502.37,"endTime":2505.31,"body":"at which, when you're, when"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2505.31,"endTime":2508.22,"body":"you're starting out, you're just"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2505.31,"endTime":2508.22,"body":"trying to make the best art"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2508.22,"endTime":2516.95,"body":"possible. But, then I think it's"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2508.22,"endTime":2516.95,"body":"smart to use a little bit of the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2517.19,"endTime":2523.7,"body":"success one might feel, to think"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2517.19,"endTime":2523.7,"body":"differently. You're not trying"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2523.7,"endTime":2528.35,"body":"to be as good as everybody else."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2523.7,"endTime":2528.35,"body":"You can relax into yourself,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2528.44,"endTime":2533.42,"body":"make your own work, and, and"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2528.44,"endTime":2533.42,"body":"have your own rules. And I mean,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2533.42,"endTime":2536.51,"body":"the stakes in the art world,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2533.42,"endTime":2536.51,"body":"like my god, you know, if I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2536.51,"endTime":2538.97,"body":"wanted to make a lot of money, I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2536.51,"endTime":2538.97,"body":"would still be in my first job."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2539.18,"endTime":2542.33,"body":"So they're so low, you might as"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2539.18,"endTime":2542.33,"body":"well break all the rules."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2543.11,"endTime":2543.65,"body":"That's great"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2543.11,"endTime":2543.65,"body":"advice."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2547.56,"endTime":2549.57,"body":"I get questions"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2547.56,"endTime":2549.57,"body":"sometimes on social media like,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2549.84,"endTime":2553.53,"body":"did you retouch that? Is that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2549.84,"endTime":2553.53,"body":"shot on film? And the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2553.53,"endTime":2555.84,"body":"implication is, you know, if"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2553.53,"endTime":2555.84,"body":"you're not doing it on analog,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2555.84,"endTime":2558.75,"body":"it's not right. And then there"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2555.84,"endTime":2558.75,"body":"are things that I've shot"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2558.75,"endTime":2566.4,"body":"analog, and nobody believes that"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2558.75,"endTime":2566.4,"body":"they were shot on film. I've"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2566.46,"endTime":2570.15,"body":"been doing a lot of"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2566.46,"endTime":2570.15,"body":"interventions with the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2570.15,"endTime":2575.73,"body":"photographs with paint and resin"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2570.15,"endTime":2575.73,"body":"and imprints, and a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2575.73,"endTime":2579.09,"body":"experiments are horrible, but"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2575.73,"endTime":2579.09,"body":"some of them turn out really"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2579.09,"endTime":2586.68,"body":"well. And then you get some sort"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2579.09,"endTime":2586.68,"body":"of old school photo world snob,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2586.68,"endTime":2589.74,"body":"and their reaction is why are"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2586.68,"endTime":2589.74,"body":"you decorating the photograph?"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2590.34,"endTime":2595.11,"body":"Like well, are painters"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2590.34,"endTime":2595.11,"body":"decorating the canvas? I mean,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2595.11,"endTime":2597.84,"body":"I'm not a painter. I'm not"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2595.11,"endTime":2597.84,"body":"trying to equate myself with"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2598.2,"endTime":2599.46,"body":"somebody who went to art school."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2599.0,"endTime":2601.49,"body":"Right, you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2599.0,"endTime":2601.49,"body":"just saying there is not only"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2601.49,"endTime":2602.78,"body":"one way to do something."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2602.81,"endTime":2604.97,"body":"Yes! What is"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2602.81,"endTime":2604.97,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2605.32,"endTime":2608.8,"body":"Yeah, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2605.32,"endTime":2608.8,"body":"art is supposed to be about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2608.83,"endTime":2612.43,"body":"novel ideas and presenting them"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2608.83,"endTime":2612.43,"body":"in new ways. So if we're not"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2612.43,"endTime":2615.4,"body":"trying to do that, we're not"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2612.43,"endTime":2615.4,"body":"pushing that conversation"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2615.4,"endTime":2622.06,"body":"forward. Well, I loved talking"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2615.4,"endTime":2622.06,"body":"to you today. This was so great."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2622.36,"endTime":2624.55,"body":"I always love"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2622.36,"endTime":2624.55,"body":"talking to you, Jennifer."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2625.24,"endTime":2627.04,"body":"Well, thank you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2625.24,"endTime":2627.04,"body":"for doing this."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2627.16,"endTime":2629.56,"body":"Thank you"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2627.16,"endTime":2629.56,"body":"Jennifer. Thanks for including"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2629.56,"endTime":2629.77,"body":"me."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2629.83,"endTime":2631.15,"body":"Of course. Thank"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2629.83,"endTime":2631.15,"body":"you."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2639.37,"endTime":2642.94,"body":"When I was doing research for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2639.37,"endTime":2642.94,"body":"this to figure out what"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2642.94,"endTime":2646.9,"body":"questions to ask you, I watched"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2642.94,"endTime":2646.9,"body":"the Tupac interview. How in the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2646.9,"endTime":2650.44,"body":"world..., it must have been so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2646.9,"endTime":2650.44,"body":"awkward to be walking that whole"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2650.44,"endTime":2654.64,"body":"time asking questions. I was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2650.44,"endTime":2654.64,"body":"thinking like, where would I put"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2654.64,"endTime":2658.42,"body":"my arms? You know, like, I was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2654.64,"endTime":2658.42,"body":"super impressed."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2659.71,"endTime":2662.41,"body":"Clearly, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2659.71,"endTime":2662.41,"body":"think much about what to wear."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2664.24,"endTime":2670.18,"body":"Oh my god. I just wanted to be"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2664.24,"endTime":2670.18,"body":"cozy, I guess. Why am I wearing"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2670.45,"endTime":2674.44,"body":"a sweater on Venice Beach? I"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2670.45,"endTime":2674.44,"body":"really don't know. But you know"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2674.44,"endTime":2678.88,"body":"the worst thing. The worst thing"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2674.44,"endTime":2678.88,"body":"is when the interviewer shows up"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2678.88,"endTime":2684.88,"body":"dressed as the artist. There's a"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2678.88,"endTime":2684.88,"body":"phase, if you notice it, people"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2684.88,"endTime":2687.73,"body":"go through and it's sort of like"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2684.88,"endTime":2687.73,"body":"I'm gonna interview Tupac. What"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2687.73,"endTime":2688.39,"body":"am I gonna wear?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2688.39,"endTime":2690.55,"body":"If you had worn"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2688.39,"endTime":2690.55,"body":"that bandana around your head,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2691.09,"endTime":2692.26,"body":"that would have been"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2691.09,"endTime":2692.26,"body":"unbelieveable."},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2692.26,"endTime":2694.69,"body":"I know,"},{"speaker":"Tabitha Soren","startTime":2692.26,"endTime":2694.69,"body":"unbelievable!"}]}