{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":6.84,"endTime":8.73,"body":"Welcome to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":6.84,"endTime":8.73,"body":"Perfect Bound. I'm Jennifer"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":8.76,"endTime":11.49,"body":"Yoffy, the founder and publisher"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":8.76,"endTime":11.49,"body":"of Yoffy press in Atlanta,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":11.49,"endTime":14.88,"body":"Georgia. This is a podcast where"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":11.49,"endTime":14.88,"body":"we talk to artists about their"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":14.88,"endTime":18.24,"body":"journey, how they got where they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":14.88,"endTime":18.24,"body":"are, what right and wrong turns"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":18.24,"endTime":20.64,"body":"they made along the way, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":18.24,"endTime":20.64,"body":"where they're heading next."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":29.06,"endTime":32.75,"body":"In this episode, we talked to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":29.06,"endTime":32.75,"body":"Daniel Milnor who has the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":32.75,"endTime":37.73,"body":"coolest bio. Daniel Milnor once"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":32.75,"endTime":37.73,"body":"worked as both a fragrance model"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":37.73,"endTime":40.73,"body":"and a hot tub installer, but is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":37.73,"endTime":40.73,"body":"better known as a reformed"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":40.73,"endTime":44.42,"body":"journalist, photographer and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":40.73,"endTime":44.42,"body":"writer, who is now once again"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":44.42,"endTime":47.72,"body":"performing these duties in his"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":44.42,"endTime":47.72,"body":"role as creative evangelist for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":47.72,"endTime":51.86,"body":"Blurb, the world's premier indie"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":47.72,"endTime":51.86,"body":"publishing platform, he lives in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":51.86,"endTime":55.16,"body":"New Mexico and owes most of his"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":51.86,"endTime":55.16,"body":"success to several shifter"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":55.16,"endTime":59.21,"body":"types, who were kind enough to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":55.16,"endTime":59.21,"body":"help him along. He is a husband,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":59.24,"endTime":63.08,"body":"brother, son, and Uncle four"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":59.24,"endTime":63.08,"body":"times over. He's partially"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":63.08,"endTime":66.68,"body":"fluent in Spanish, can kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":63.08,"endTime":66.68,"body":"still ride a skateboard and just"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":66.68,"endTime":69.71,"body":"picked up a guitar for the first"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":66.68,"endTime":69.71,"body":"time ever, something he now"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":69.71,"endTime":73.91,"body":"regrets not doing decades ago."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":69.71,"endTime":73.91,"body":"A compulsive journal keeper, he"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":73.91,"endTime":77.99,"body":"believes in the power of print,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":73.91,"endTime":77.99,"body":"taking one's time slowing down,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":78.26,"endTime":82.31,"body":"reading paper books, casting off"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":78.26,"endTime":82.31,"body":"the shackles of social media and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":82.31,"endTime":84.56,"body":"talking to one's neighbors if"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":82.31,"endTime":84.56,"body":"you really want to know what's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":84.56,"endTime":87.68,"body":"going on in the world. He's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":84.56,"endTime":87.68,"body":"disappointed in the power of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":87.68,"endTime":91.52,"body":"celebrity American architecture"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":87.68,"endTime":91.52,"body":"for the most part, and how"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":91.52,"endTime":94.67,"body":"mobile phones have reduced most"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":91.52,"endTime":94.67,"body":"of the population to complete"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":94.67,"endTime":98.54,"body":"and total zombies. He dreams of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":94.67,"endTime":98.54,"body":"downsizing, writing something"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":98.54,"endTime":102.47,"body":"memorable and living somewhere"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":98.54,"endTime":102.47,"body":"in Latin America. We talk about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":102.5,"endTime":105.98,"body":"almost all of these things in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":102.5,"endTime":105.98,"body":"the podcast. So let's welcome"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":106.01,"endTime":107.03,"body":"Daniel Milner."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":117.56,"endTime":121.46,"body":"This podcast in general is about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":117.56,"endTime":121.46,"body":"the journey, the artist journey"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":121.46,"endTime":124.91,"body":"and kind of what right turns and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":121.46,"endTime":124.91,"body":"wrong turns you made along the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":124.91,"endTime":128.69,"body":"way, what you saw as a right"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":124.91,"endTime":128.69,"body":"turn that ended up being a wrong"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":128.69,"endTime":133.25,"body":"turn and vice versa. And I think"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":128.69,"endTime":133.25,"body":"you more than, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":133.25,"endTime":138.14,"body":"certainly anyone I can think of,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":133.25,"endTime":138.14,"body":"adaptation is kind of your MO,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":138.17,"endTime":143.0,"body":"right? I mean, you have, it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":138.17,"endTime":143.0,"body":"seems from the outside, been"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":143.03,"endTime":149.12,"body":"able to stay very centered"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":143.03,"endTime":149.12,"body":"around what is working and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":149.12,"endTime":152.51,"body":"what's not working for you. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":149.12,"endTime":152.51,"body":"when something isn't working for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":152.51,"endTime":157.4,"body":"you, you make a change, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":152.51,"endTime":157.4,"body":"which I think is incredible and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":157.4,"endTime":160.88,"body":"hard to do. And not something"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":157.4,"endTime":160.88,"body":"that most people do, they get"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":160.88,"endTime":164.9,"body":"kind of stuck in thinking it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":160.88,"endTime":164.9,"body":"can't be done differently, or no"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":164.9,"endTime":169.37,"body":"one, no one does it the way that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":164.9,"endTime":169.37,"body":"I'm thinking. And so, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":169.37,"endTime":174.11,"body":"and you quit photography twice."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":169.37,"endTime":174.11,"body":"And by that I mean commercial"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":174.14,"endTime":178.19,"body":"photography. And it seemed like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":174.14,"endTime":178.19,"body":"you didn't quit because you fell"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":178.19,"endTime":181.16,"body":"out of love for photography is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":178.19,"endTime":181.16,"body":"almost the opposite. It's like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":181.16,"endTime":185.78,"body":"you loved it so much that you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":181.16,"endTime":185.78,"body":"wanted to be free from the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":185.78,"endTime":189.29,"body":"commercial expectations of it."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":185.78,"endTime":189.29,"body":"Would you say that's accurate?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":189.6,"endTime":192.21,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":189.6,"endTime":192.21,"body":"exactly right. I love"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":192.21,"endTime":196.02,"body":"photography. I mean, I think"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":192.21,"endTime":196.02,"body":"about it all the time. It's rare"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":196.02,"endTime":198.69,"body":"that I get a chance these days"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":196.02,"endTime":198.69,"body":"to actually work on projects. I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":198.69,"endTime":202.8,"body":"think, in the last year, I've"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":198.69,"endTime":202.8,"body":"spent one day total working on"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":202.92,"endTime":206.31,"body":"on a project; what I would what"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":202.92,"endTime":206.31,"body":"I would call an actual project."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":206.31,"endTime":210.72,"body":"It's something I've been working"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":206.31,"endTime":210.72,"body":"on for a couple of years. And I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":210.72,"endTime":213.72,"body":"love photography, it's still"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":210.72,"endTime":213.72,"body":"just as challenging now as it"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":213.72,"endTime":216.6,"body":"was when I first picked up the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":213.72,"endTime":216.6,"body":"camera and I haven't even"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":216.6,"endTime":220.2,"body":"remotely scratched the surface."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":216.6,"endTime":220.2,"body":"And I will never be a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":220.2,"endTime":223.32,"body":"transcendent photographer. I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":220.2,"endTime":223.32,"body":"think there's only a handful of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":223.32,"endTime":226.8,"body":"those every generation. I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":223.32,"endTime":226.8,"body":"certainly have never really even"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":226.8,"endTime":230.31,"body":"given myself the opportunity to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":226.8,"endTime":230.31,"body":"be a transcendent photographer,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":230.31,"endTime":234.18,"body":"but quitting was really the way"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":230.31,"endTime":234.18,"body":"that I learned that there was a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":234.21,"endTime":237.93,"body":"greener pasture for me out"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":234.21,"endTime":237.93,"body":"there. I knew early on I didn't"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":237.93,"endTime":240.84,"body":"fit in the industry, the kind of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":237.93,"endTime":240.84,"body":"work that I wanted to do and how"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":240.84,"endTime":243.81,"body":"I viewed photography was not in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":240.84,"endTime":243.81,"body":"line with the commercial"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":243.81,"endTime":246.42,"body":"industry, whether editorial,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":243.81,"endTime":246.42,"body":"commercial, advertising, any of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":246.42,"endTime":250.77,"body":"that. And I dabbled in all of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":246.42,"endTime":250.77,"body":"that. I studied photojournalism,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":250.83,"endTime":253.68,"body":"but knew even before I got out"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":250.83,"endTime":253.68,"body":"of school, the odds of making a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":253.68,"endTime":255.96,"body":"living in America as a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":253.68,"endTime":255.96,"body":"photojournalist were tricky to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":255.96,"endTime":260.61,"body":"begin with. And then realizing"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":255.96,"endTime":260.61,"body":"that I didn't want to be a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":261.51,"endTime":265.2,"body":"classic photojournalist. I kind"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":261.51,"endTime":265.2,"body":"of felt more like a documentary"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":265.2,"endTime":268.08,"body":"photographer more than"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":265.2,"endTime":268.08,"body":"journalist. I wasn't so much"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":268.08,"endTime":271.59,"body":"consumed with the time element"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":268.08,"endTime":271.59,"body":"and the news angle. I was more"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":271.59,"endTime":274.23,"body":"concerned about the longer"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":271.59,"endTime":274.23,"body":"story. But the real death knell"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":274.35,"endTime":278.31,"body":"to death knell for me was I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":274.35,"endTime":278.31,"body":"never wanted to be known. I grew"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":278.31,"endTime":281.64,"body":"up in the country, I grew up"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":278.31,"endTime":281.64,"body":"very independent. And you know"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":281.64,"endTime":286.56,"body":"my goal in life is to disappear."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":281.64,"endTime":286.56,"body":"I have this reoccurring dream"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":286.56,"endTime":291.72,"body":"where I'm laying on my back in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":286.56,"endTime":291.72,"body":"like some primordial forest and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":292.53,"endTime":295.98,"body":"this piece of like clear film"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":292.53,"endTime":295.98,"body":"falls down from the sky and it"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":295.98,"endTime":299.31,"body":"covers me and I'm suddenly"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":295.98,"endTime":299.31,"body":"erased from the memory of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":299.31,"endTime":304.5,"body":"everyone on the planet and I and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":299.31,"endTime":304.5,"body":"I start over. And I can navigate"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":304.5,"endTime":307.74,"body":"the world without a single"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":304.5,"endTime":307.74,"body":"person knowing that I ever"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":307.74,"endTime":312.0,"body":"existed. So that's the kind of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":307.74,"endTime":312.0,"body":"twisted, reoccurring dream I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":312.0,"endTime":314.61,"body":"have. So that does not bode well"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":312.0,"endTime":314.61,"body":"for someone being a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":314.61,"endTime":317.91,"body":"photographer, because I just"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":314.61,"endTime":317.91,"body":"never cared, I just wanted to be"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":317.91,"endTime":322.92,"body":"in the field and make pictures."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":317.91,"endTime":322.92,"body":"And I realized in '97, that I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":322.92,"endTime":326.37,"body":"got out of school '92 by '97, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":322.92,"endTime":326.37,"body":"was like, there's no career for"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":326.37,"endTime":329.85,"body":"me here, unless I want to be"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":326.37,"endTime":329.85,"body":"somebody else's photographer,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":329.88,"endTime":333.66,"body":"you know, if I want to, if I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":329.88,"endTime":333.66,"body":"want to join the mold that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":333.66,"endTime":336.3,"body":"already exists, sure, I can be a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":333.66,"endTime":336.3,"body":"photographer, and I was getting"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":336.33,"endTime":339.33,"body":"assignments and work. And you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":336.33,"endTime":339.33,"body":"know, I was shooting all kinds"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":339.33,"endTime":341.91,"body":"of things. But to your point,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":339.33,"endTime":341.91,"body":"when I would, I would make"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":341.91,"endTime":347.22,"body":"changes. That to me didn't"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":341.91,"endTime":347.22,"body":"really seem that profound. But"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":347.22,"endTime":348.87,"body":"my colleagues and friends"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":349.65,"endTime":350.61,"body":"lost their"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":349.65,"endTime":350.61,"body":"minds...."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":350.0,"endTime":352.58,"body":"they lost their"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":350.0,"endTime":352.58,"body":"minds. And I mean, there were"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":352.58,"endTime":356.03,"body":"times where I got like, hate"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":352.58,"endTime":356.03,"body":"mail from people. You know, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":356.03,"endTime":360.32,"body":"quit the first time in 97, got a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":356.03,"endTime":360.32,"body":"job with Kodak. And that was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":360.32,"endTime":365.0,"body":"awesome. They gave me a company"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":360.32,"endTime":365.0,"body":"car, I had insurance. Kodak was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":365.0,"endTime":368.06,"body":"like the Wild West at that time,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":365.0,"endTime":368.06,"body":"it was hilarious. But I learned"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":368.06,"endTime":371.21,"body":"a lot. And the people I worked"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":368.06,"endTime":371.21,"body":"with were incredibly smart. And"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":371.87,"endTime":375.44,"body":"I learned this history of Kodak"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":371.87,"endTime":375.44,"body":"that I didn't know. But I knew"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":375.44,"endTime":378.08,"body":"that was never going to be a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":375.44,"endTime":378.08,"body":"career. I was like, Okay, I'm"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":378.08,"endTime":381.11,"body":"only whatever, 26 years old or"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":378.08,"endTime":381.11,"body":"something or 30. I'm never going"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":381.11,"endTime":384.62,"body":"to be here forever. And so that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":381.11,"endTime":384.62,"body":"was a relief of knowing that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":384.62,"endTime":387.53,"body":"this was not some, you know,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":384.62,"endTime":387.53,"body":"place I was going to be forever."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":388.04,"endTime":392.3,"body":"But when I quit Kodak, and went"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":388.04,"endTime":392.3,"body":"back to being a photographer,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":392.3,"endTime":397.43,"body":"but this was in 99, I went back"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":392.3,"endTime":397.43,"body":"to being a photojournalist to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":397.43,"endTime":403.07,"body":"being a wedding photographer. In"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":397.43,"endTime":403.07,"body":"99, nobody, I mean, this was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":403.07,"endTime":405.89,"body":"prior to the bubble, this was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":403.07,"endTime":405.89,"body":"prior to really digital"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":405.89,"endTime":410.78,"body":"exploding into the market. I had"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":405.89,"endTime":410.78,"body":"friends and colleagues who were"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":410.78,"endTime":416.06,"body":"like, so insulted. I remember"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":410.78,"endTime":416.06,"body":"being in New York at Photoplus"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":416.06,"endTime":418.88,"body":"Expo, this is a this is"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":416.06,"endTime":418.88,"body":"hilarious to me. I'm at"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":418.88,"endTime":424.34,"body":"Photoplus Expo, I'm with several"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":418.88,"endTime":424.34,"body":"consultants, photo agents"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":424.34,"endTime":427.85,"body":"consultants, and then a crowd of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":424.34,"endTime":427.85,"body":"like, what I would call high end"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":427.85,"endTime":430.76,"body":"commercial photographers, none"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":427.85,"endTime":430.76,"body":"of whom I knew, but I knew who"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":430.76,"endTime":433.88,"body":"they were, but I didn't know"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":430.76,"endTime":433.88,"body":"them personally. And I was like,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":433.91,"endTime":437.27,"body":"I'm gonna do a little experiment"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":433.91,"endTime":437.27,"body":"here. So we're making"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":437.27,"endTime":440.81,"body":"introductions. And it comes to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":437.27,"endTime":440.81,"body":"me and I go, Hi, I'm a wedding"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":440.81,"endTime":445.28,"body":"photographer, and the looks on"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":440.81,"endTime":445.28,"body":"their faces. And then one of the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":445.28,"endTime":448.4,"body":"agents I knew really well, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":445.28,"endTime":448.4,"body":"didn't know anyone else in the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":448.4,"endTime":452.78,"body":"circle, but literally, it was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":448.4,"endTime":452.78,"body":"like, they just ran away from me"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":452.78,"endTime":457.07,"body":"as fast as they could. And the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":452.78,"endTime":457.07,"body":"agent looks at me and goes, why"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":457.07,"endTime":460.52,"body":"did you do that, you know, don't"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":457.07,"endTime":460.52,"body":"ever introduce yourself... and I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":460.52,"endTime":464.24,"body":"wanted to see what would happen."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":460.52,"endTime":464.24,"body":"And that to me was great. And"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":464.24,"endTime":467.78,"body":"then I probably should have"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":464.24,"endTime":467.78,"body":"never gone back to working full"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":467.78,"endTime":475.61,"body":"time. But I did. And from, from"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":467.78,"endTime":475.61,"body":"99 to like 2010 I had by far, in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":475.61,"endTime":480.98,"body":"terms of like, my revenue and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":475.61,"endTime":480.98,"body":"commercial. By far the best run"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":481.01,"endTime":485.48,"body":"that I'd had, you know, but I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":481.01,"endTime":485.48,"body":"knew my heart was not in it. It"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":485.48,"endTime":488.09,"body":"was never going to be me in the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":485.48,"endTime":488.09,"body":"long run. And so I quit for"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":488.09,"endTime":488.36,"body":"real."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":491.63,"endTime":493.73,"body":"Well, you've"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":491.63,"endTime":493.73,"body":"managed to create a situation"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":493.73,"endTime":497.6,"body":"where you're able to use your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":493.73,"endTime":497.6,"body":"knowledge of photography to make"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":497.6,"endTime":501.08,"body":"a living without shooting for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":497.6,"endTime":501.08,"body":"anyone else. So did you have a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":501.08,"endTime":503.78,"body":"model for this? Or did you just"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":501.08,"endTime":503.78,"body":"sort of make it up as you went"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":503.78,"endTime":504.17,"body":"along?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":505.44,"endTime":507.93,"body":"I made it up. I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":505.44,"endTime":507.93,"body":"didn't really have a model"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":507.93,"endTime":511.62,"body":"because everybody was telling me"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":507.93,"endTime":511.62,"body":"not to do it. And I quit really"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":511.62,"endTime":515.55,"body":"on a Tuesday afternoon and I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":511.62,"endTime":515.55,"body":"deleted my email account. My"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":515.55,"endTime":518.82,"body":"wife was behind me and I said"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":515.55,"endTime":518.82,"body":"look, I'm done, and I was going"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":518.82,"endTime":522.54,"body":"to move to Santa Fe, full time."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":518.82,"endTime":522.54,"body":"And then move back and forth"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":522.54,"endTime":525.57,"body":"because her job was in Southern"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":522.54,"endTime":525.57,"body":"California. And I was going to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":525.57,"endTime":528.18,"body":"completely change my career and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":525.57,"endTime":528.18,"body":"work in some other industry. I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":528.18,"endTime":530.7,"body":"don't know what, I love the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":528.18,"endTime":530.7,"body":"cycling industry. There's a lot"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":530.7,"endTime":533.55,"body":"of other things I have interest"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":530.7,"endTime":533.55,"body":"in. But I didn't really have a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":533.55,"endTime":537.06,"body":"roadmap, I just did it. But what"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":533.55,"endTime":537.06,"body":"happened in 2010 when I knew I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":537.06,"endTime":541.95,"body":"was done for real, my life"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":537.06,"endTime":541.95,"body":"changed for the better within"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":541.95,"endTime":544.92,"body":"minutes of making that decision."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":541.95,"endTime":544.92,"body":"And..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":545.37,"endTime":547.98,"body":"just because of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":545.37,"endTime":547.98,"body":"like the mental and emotional"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":548.01,"endTime":551.43,"body":"weight being lifted or the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":548.01,"endTime":551.43,"body":"freedom"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":551.6,"endTime":554.69,"body":"...all the above."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":551.6,"endTime":554.69,"body":"And also I realized that I had"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":554.69,"endTime":558.44,"body":"spent almost 30 years of my life"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":554.69,"endTime":558.44,"body":"looking through a little"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":558.44,"endTime":563.33,"body":"rectangle or a square. And all I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":558.44,"endTime":563.33,"body":"thought about, all my friends"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":563.33,"endTime":568.58,"body":"were in the industry. Everything"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":563.33,"endTime":568.58,"body":"I did outside of working was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":568.58,"endTime":571.37,"body":"still focused around the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":568.58,"endTime":571.37,"body":"industry, all the parties I went"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":571.37,"endTime":574.28,"body":"to, all the events I went to,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":571.37,"endTime":574.28,"body":"all the travel I did was to make"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":574.28,"endTime":578.24,"body":"pictures, I never did anything"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":574.28,"endTime":578.24,"body":"else. I put the entire rest of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":578.24,"endTime":581.9,"body":"my life on hold, all of these"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":578.24,"endTime":581.9,"body":"other interests and passions I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":581.9,"endTime":586.07,"body":"had I just scrapped it for 30"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":581.9,"endTime":586.07,"body":"years and the second I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":586.1,"endTime":591.23,"body":"rediscovered those, not only did"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":586.1,"endTime":591.23,"body":"my life get a lot better, but I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":591.23,"endTime":595.25,"body":"just felt wealth, far more well"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":591.23,"endTime":595.25,"body":"rounded as a human being like I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":595.25,"endTime":598.73,"body":"felt in some weird way like my"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":595.25,"endTime":598.73,"body":"intelligence level went up"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":598.73,"endTime":602.81,"body":"because I was suddenly able to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":598.73,"endTime":602.81,"body":"have conversations about things"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":602.81,"endTime":607.04,"body":"that didn't regard and revolve"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":602.81,"endTime":607.04,"body":"around photography. And it was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":607.04,"endTime":610.58,"body":"amazing how my life changed in a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":607.04,"endTime":610.58,"body":"positive way in terms of also to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":610.58,"endTime":613.07,"body":"the people I was exposed to, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":610.58,"endTime":613.07,"body":"suddenly was not just so"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":613.73,"endTime":618.14,"body":"myopically focused on photo"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":613.73,"endTime":618.14,"body":"people, I was suddenly engaging"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":618.14,"endTime":620.93,"body":"with financial people, and you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":618.14,"endTime":620.93,"body":"know, environmental people,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":620.93,"endTime":623.45,"body":"scientists, and just all kinds"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":620.93,"endTime":623.45,"body":"of people that I was like, wow."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":623.45,"endTime":626.09,"body":"And Santa Fe is an interesting"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":623.45,"endTime":626.09,"body":"town, because for such a small"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":626.09,"endTime":630.02,"body":"city, there's an incredible"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":626.09,"endTime":630.02,"body":"amount of things happening here."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":630.02,"endTime":633.17,"body":"And we had a tech industry here"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":630.02,"endTime":633.17,"body":"in the 80s, Santa Fe was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":633.17,"endTime":636.86,"body":"referred to as the info Mesa."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":633.17,"endTime":636.86,"body":"And so you have the beginnings"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":636.86,"endTime":640.58,"body":"of the tech world here, you've"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":636.86,"endTime":640.58,"body":"got the Los Alamos National"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":640.58,"endTime":643.4,"body":"Laboratories community, you've"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":640.58,"endTime":643.4,"body":"got science, you've got space,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":643.88,"endTime":645.86,"body":"you've got the art world, the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":643.88,"endTime":645.86,"body":"photography world, the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":645.86,"endTime":648.32,"body":"publishing world, there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":645.86,"endTime":648.32,"body":"going on here. And so every"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":648.32,"endTime":652.25,"body":"night, I was just venturing out"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":648.32,"endTime":652.25,"body":"meeting new people in new fields"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":652.25,"endTime":655.82,"body":"and saying, Wow, why didn't I do"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":652.25,"endTime":655.82,"body":"this all along? I think, I think"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":655.82,"endTime":659.36,"body":"what it made me realize more"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":655.82,"endTime":659.36,"body":"than anything else, for me was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":659.36,"endTime":664.37,"body":"that photography was, and still"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":659.36,"endTime":664.37,"body":"is an incredibly powerful"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":664.37,"endTime":669.71,"body":"resource. But I think it's even"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":664.37,"endTime":669.71,"body":"more powerful as a small part of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":669.71,"endTime":671.42,"body":"a much larger idea."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":672.929,"endTime":676.919,"body":"Do you think"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":672.929,"endTime":676.919,"body":"also part of the weight, or, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":676.919,"endTime":679.559,"body":"know, the weight that was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":676.919,"endTime":679.559,"body":"lifted, or maybe the space that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":679.559,"endTime":683.789,"body":"was created mentally for you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":679.559,"endTime":683.789,"body":"was, you know, when you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":683.789,"endTime":688.559,"body":"working for yourself as a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":683.789,"endTime":688.559,"body":"photographer, you have to, it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":688.559,"endTime":692.879,"body":"really myopic, and you're really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":688.559,"endTime":692.879,"body":"focused on you. Whereas if"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":692.879,"endTime":698.189,"body":"you're not scrambling for, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":692.879,"endTime":698.189,"body":"know, or competing for the next"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":698.819,"endTime":702.899,"body":"job, or assignment, or gallery"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":698.819,"endTime":702.899,"body":"show, or whatever, that, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":702.899,"endTime":705.509,"body":"know, you can be more"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":702.899,"endTime":705.509,"body":"magnanimous. I mean, you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":705.509,"endTime":708.809,"body":"still so involved with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":705.509,"endTime":708.809,"body":"photography, I mean, you shoot"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":708.809,"endTime":713.459,"body":"for yourself, but in putting"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":708.809,"endTime":713.459,"body":"that in a different category,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":713.459,"endTime":717.509,"body":"where you're doing it for you,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":713.459,"endTime":717.509,"body":"you can take that love of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":717.509,"endTime":723.749,"body":"photography and, and teach and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":717.509,"endTime":723.749,"body":"inspire and help other people in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":723.749,"endTime":728.489,"body":"a way that feels maybe more in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":723.749,"endTime":728.489,"body":"line with your values are what"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":728.519,"endTime":729.959,"body":"you want to be focusing on."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":730.47,"endTime":732.78,"body":"Yeah, I think I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":730.47,"endTime":732.78,"body":"think working full time as a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":732.78,"endTime":735.12,"body":"photographer these days,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":732.78,"endTime":735.12,"body":"regardless of who you are, at"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":735.12,"endTime":738.66,"body":"what level, whether you're a low"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":735.12,"endTime":738.66,"body":"level professional or an elite"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":738.66,"endTime":742.35,"body":"level, professional, it can be"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":738.66,"endTime":742.35,"body":"incredibly unhealthy the amount"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":742.35,"endTime":745.41,"body":"of time that you have to focus"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":742.35,"endTime":745.41,"body":"thinking about yourself and your"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":745.41,"endTime":749.25,"body":"career. I have friends who are"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":745.41,"endTime":749.25,"body":"still friends of mine, that you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":749.25,"endTime":751.92,"body":"will never have a conversation"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":749.25,"endTime":751.92,"body":"with them about anything other"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":751.92,"endTime":755.25,"body":"than them, and their career and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":751.92,"endTime":755.25,"body":"their work. It's just the way it"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":755.25,"endTime":757.17,"body":"is. And you know that if you're"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":755.25,"endTime":757.17,"body":"friends with them, that's all"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":757.17,"endTime":760.5,"body":"you're gonna get. Because their"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":757.17,"endTime":760.5,"body":"entire world is directly above"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":760.5,"endTime":765.12,"body":"their head. And in some cases,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":760.5,"endTime":765.12,"body":"the industry demands that. I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":765.12,"endTime":767.73,"body":"mean, it's really hard to make a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":765.12,"endTime":767.73,"body":"living now, especially folks who"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":767.73,"endTime":772.32,"body":"are what I would call making a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":767.73,"endTime":772.32,"body":"living in the classic sense of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":772.32,"endTime":776.31,"body":"like making real money, you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":772.32,"endTime":776.31,"body":"know, having health insurance,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":776.34,"endTime":779.43,"body":"putting stuff away for"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":776.34,"endTime":779.43,"body":"retirement, having an archive"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":779.46,"endTime":782.46,"body":"that they're licensing years"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":779.46,"endTime":782.46,"body":"after the work was made, those"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":782.46,"endTime":786.51,"body":"people are few and far between."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":782.46,"endTime":786.51,"body":"And the younger generations, in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":786.51,"endTime":790.41,"body":"some ways, don't understand how"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":786.51,"endTime":790.41,"body":"those folks operate. And then"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":790.41,"endTime":794.22,"body":"you throw in social media. And I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":790.41,"endTime":794.22,"body":"knew for me the death knell, the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":794.22,"endTime":799.32,"body":"final nail in the coffin for me"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":794.22,"endTime":799.32,"body":"was when Facebook landed. Here's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":799.32,"endTime":802.14,"body":"the crazy part. I've sort of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":799.32,"endTime":802.14,"body":"developed a reputation as"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":802.14,"endTime":804.78,"body":"someone who deleted social"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":802.14,"endTime":804.78,"body":"media, which also came with two"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":804.78,"endTime":809.79,"body":"years of hate mail. And I mean,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":804.78,"endTime":809.79,"body":"you can't believe the stuff that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":809.79,"endTime":812.19,"body":"people..., you know when I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":809.79,"endTime":812.19,"body":"deleted social like 10 years"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":812.19,"endTime":817.02,"body":"ago, man, two years of just"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":812.19,"endTime":817.02,"body":"incredible hate mail, but I went"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":817.02,"endTime":817.14,"body":"to..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":817.59,"endTime":819.51,"body":"They're jealous"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":817.59,"endTime":819.51,"body":"that they don't have the guts to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":819.51,"endTime":820.05,"body":"do it."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":820.0,"endTime":822.13,"body":"You know, it was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":820.0,"endTime":822.13,"body":"weird. It was the the people who"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":822.13,"endTime":824.47,"body":"say you're too dumb to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":822.13,"endTime":824.47,"body":"understand the brilliance of the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":824.47,"endTime":827.5,"body":"platforms. And you know, these"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":824.47,"endTime":827.5,"body":"are physically addicted people"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":827.5,"endTime":830.23,"body":"who don't have any else to do."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":827.5,"endTime":830.23,"body":"They don't they can't look at it"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":830.23,"endTime":834.4,"body":"any other way. So, but I went to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":830.23,"endTime":834.4,"body":"New York, I was doing a shoot in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":834.4,"endTime":837.67,"body":"Manhattan and I was working with"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":834.4,"endTime":837.67,"body":"this client, and she was the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":837.67,"endTime":840.82,"body":"first person I ever heard use"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":837.67,"endTime":840.82,"body":"the word Facebook. And I was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":840.82,"endTime":844.15,"body":"like, Wow, what's Facebook? And"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":840.82,"endTime":844.15,"body":"she told me. So I head back to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":844.15,"endTime":848.65,"body":"California and so I was on"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":844.15,"endTime":848.65,"body":"Facebook before any of my"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":848.65,"endTime":851.77,"body":"friends. And I was like, hey,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":848.65,"endTime":851.77,"body":"this thing's really cool. And"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":851.8,"endTime":855.58,"body":"same for Twitter. You know, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":851.8,"endTime":855.58,"body":"got on Twitter when Twitter was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":855.58,"endTime":858.88,"body":"just simply people telling where"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":855.58,"endTime":858.88,"body":"they were in what they were"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":858.88,"endTime":862.15,"body":"doing. There was no massive, you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":858.88,"endTime":862.15,"body":"know, underground marketing"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":862.15,"endTime":868.33,"body":"campaign under every single"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":862.15,"endTime":868.33,"body":"tweet. I was at a creative"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":868.33,"endTime":871.84,"body":"festival in Amsterdam and this"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":868.33,"endTime":871.84,"body":"guy said Twitter and I looked at"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":871.84,"endTime":873.97,"body":"Eileen, who's the founder of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":871.84,"endTime":873.97,"body":"Blurb, we were together on that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":873.97,"endTime":876.91,"body":"trip and I go, what's Twitter?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":873.97,"endTime":876.91,"body":"And she goes, I don't know let's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":876.91,"endTime":882.13,"body":"you know, figure out what"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":876.91,"endTime":882.13,"body":"Twitter is. Social [media] to me"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":882.13,"endTime":886.3,"body":"is what turned professional"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":882.13,"endTime":886.3,"body":"photography inside out, and not"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":886.3,"endTime":889.69,"body":"in a good way. And it's gone"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":886.3,"endTime":889.69,"body":"down a path that I cannot see it"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":889.69,"endTime":890.98,"body":"ever recovering from."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":891.97,"endTime":895.78,"body":"Is it just"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":891.97,"endTime":895.78,"body":"oversharing and and not waiting?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":896.98,"endTime":901.45,"body":"Not waiting until like an image"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":896.98,"endTime":901.45,"body":"or a body of work is resolved or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":901.48,"endTime":906.76,"body":"as a pressure for output, that's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":901.48,"endTime":906.76,"body":"kind of not sustainable."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":906.99,"endTime":909.36,"body":"It's an extension"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":906.99,"endTime":909.36,"body":"of what we talked about a minute"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":909.36,"endTime":912.78,"body":"ago, which is, being a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":909.36,"endTime":912.78,"body":"professional, full time creative"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":912.78,"endTime":915.87,"body":"often means that you're spending"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":912.78,"endTime":915.87,"body":"an unhealthy amount of time"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":915.87,"endTime":918.99,"body":"thinking about yourself. And"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":915.87,"endTime":918.99,"body":"that was really kind of always"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":918.99,"endTime":921.99,"body":"the case. It's that's how hard"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":918.99,"endTime":921.99,"body":"it is to be a professional and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":921.99,"endTime":924.36,"body":"do these do these things. And"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":921.99,"endTime":924.36,"body":"then all of a sudden, social"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":924.36,"endTime":928.23,"body":"comes along. And social takes"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":924.36,"endTime":928.23,"body":"that idea, that concept and just"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":928.23,"endTime":932.31,"body":"magnifies it exponentially. And"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":928.23,"endTime":932.31,"body":"suddenly, your goal in life is"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":932.31,"endTime":935.31,"body":"to make a palatable version of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":932.31,"endTime":935.31,"body":"yourself for the online world."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":935.34,"endTime":940.14,"body":"It's a fake, phony, unrealistic,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":935.34,"endTime":940.14,"body":"oftentimes idiotic version of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":940.14,"endTime":942.96,"body":"yourself that you're trying to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":940.14,"endTime":942.96,"body":"be palatable, and everyone plays"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":942.96,"endTime":947.07,"body":"along, because they know it's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":942.96,"endTime":947.07,"body":"not real. And we're at the point"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":947.07,"endTime":952.32,"body":"now, where clients, oftentimes"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":947.07,"endTime":952.32,"body":"in meetings, when clients are"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":952.32,"endTime":955.53,"body":"discussing photographers, there"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":952.32,"endTime":955.53,"body":"is no discussion of the work at"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":955.53,"endTime":957.42,"body":"all, it has nothing to do with"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":955.53,"endTime":957.42,"body":"the work."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":957.99,"endTime":959.55,"body":"Right? It's the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":957.99,"endTime":959.55,"body":"number of followers."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":959.57,"endTime":961.82,"body":"It's data and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":959.57,"endTime":961.82,"body":"metrics. That's it, that's all"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":961.82,"endTime":964.16,"body":"they're talking about. No one"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":961.82,"endTime":964.16,"body":"even identifies what's good and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":964.16,"endTime":967.52,"body":"bad anymore. And that's not"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":964.16,"endTime":967.52,"body":"always the case. But it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":967.52,"endTime":971.12,"body":"at a level that's kind of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":967.52,"endTime":971.12,"body":"alarming in the sense of how how"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":971.27,"endTime":976.04,"body":"frequent that is. And it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":971.27,"endTime":976.04,"body":"kind of weird. So to me, I was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":976.04,"endTime":979.58,"body":"like, okay, when clients started"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":976.04,"endTime":979.58,"body":"to demand that work, you know,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":979.58,"endTime":982.61,"body":"the, the primary delivery"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":979.58,"endTime":982.61,"body":"mechanism of work was Facebook,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":982.64,"endTime":984.62,"body":"I was like, I don't want"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":982.64,"endTime":984.62,"body":"anything to do with this. And I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":984.62,"endTime":986.78,"body":"would tell clients, I'm not I'll"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":984.62,"endTime":986.78,"body":"shoot this for you, but I'm not"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":986.78,"endTime":989.69,"body":"putting it on Facebook. I don't"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":986.78,"endTime":989.69,"body":"want it on Facebook, and there"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":989.69,"endTime":992.81,"body":"was a lot immediate pushback."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":989.69,"endTime":992.81,"body":"And I was like, okay, once"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":992.81,"endTime":996.17,"body":"again, another indicator that I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":992.81,"endTime":996.17,"body":"am probably not long for a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":996.17,"endTime":1001.06,"body":"career in photography. I think"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":996.17,"endTime":1001.06,"body":"the single most destructive"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1001.06,"endTime":1004.57,"body":"platform I've seen is Instagram."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1001.06,"endTime":1004.57,"body":"I've never seen anything like"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1004.57,"endTime":1004.78,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1005.62,"endTime":1008.41,"body":"It drives me"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1005.62,"endTime":1008.41,"body":"crazy when.... So, p`eople"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1008.41,"endTime":1011.38,"body":"submit to Yoffy Press their"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1008.41,"endTime":1011.38,"body":"projects, and I look at"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1011.38,"endTime":1015.37,"body":"everything. I respond to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1011.38,"endTime":1015.37,"body":"everything. Not necessarily in a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1015.37,"endTime":1019.42,"body":"day. But you know, eventually"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1015.37,"endTime":1019.42,"body":"within a month usually. When"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1019.42,"endTime":1022.27,"body":"people send me you know, I have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1019.42,"endTime":1022.27,"body":"this project. I've been working"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1022.27,"endTime":1026.68,"body":"on it. You can see the images on"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1022.27,"endTime":1026.68,"body":"Instagram. Are you kidding me?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1027.49,"endTime":1033.94,"body":"Like, one that seems just insane"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1027.49,"endTime":1033.94,"body":"to me - because it's not, it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1033.94,"endTime":1037.06,"body":"not sequenced. It's not curated."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1033.94,"endTime":1037.06,"body":"It's just, you know, thrown up"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1037.06,"endTime":1041.59,"body":"there. And also, to me"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1037.06,"endTime":1041.59,"body":"represents such a lack of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1041.59,"endTime":1045.7,"body":"intentionality, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1041.59,"endTime":1045.7,"body":"professionalism in terms of, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1045.7,"endTime":1048.82,"body":"know, you want to sign up to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1045.7,"endTime":1048.82,"body":"work with me for the next two"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1048.82,"endTime":1052.36,"body":"years to publish and sell your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1048.82,"endTime":1052.36,"body":"book, and you're sending me your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1052.36,"endTime":1056.53,"body":"Instagram link? Like, how about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1052.36,"endTime":1056.53,"body":"just a PDF? I don't know, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1056.53,"endTime":1059.26,"body":"know, throwing it out there."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1056.53,"endTime":1059.26,"body":"Just just an idea."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1059.44,"endTime":1062.14,"body":"Yeah, I think,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1059.44,"endTime":1062.14,"body":"you know, I..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1062.14,"endTime":1063.67,"body":"Just so casual"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1062.14,"endTime":1063.67,"body":"and..."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1063.93,"endTime":1066.84,"body":"It's casual. And"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1063.93,"endTime":1066.84,"body":"it's, you know.... Look, the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1066.84,"endTime":1071.7,"body":"people who built that platform,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1066.84,"endTime":1071.7,"body":"are very intelligent people."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1071.85,"endTime":1075.15,"body":"They knew exactly what they were"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1071.85,"endTime":1075.15,"body":"doing. And we know because"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1075.15,"endTime":1078.69,"body":"they've admitted it, after the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1075.15,"endTime":1078.69,"body":"fact. So if you were looking for"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1078.69,"endTime":1083.58,"body":"a delivery mechanism, to implode"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1078.69,"endTime":1083.58,"body":"the mindset of a creative, you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1083.58,"endTime":1086.61,"body":"could not build anything. I've"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1083.58,"endTime":1086.61,"body":"never seen anything better, more"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1086.61,"endTime":1090.21,"body":"effective at doing that. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1086.61,"endTime":1090.21,"body":"how many times have I been to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1090.21,"endTime":1093.27,"body":"photo festivals where you hear"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1090.21,"endTime":1093.27,"body":"industry professionals saying,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1093.27,"endTime":1097.74,"body":"quote, everyone in this room has"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1093.27,"endTime":1097.74,"body":"to be on Instagram. And in my"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1097.74,"endTime":1100.77,"body":"head, I go, wait a second, let"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1097.74,"endTime":1100.77,"body":"me get this straight, we're"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1100.77,"endTime":1103.2,"body":"supposed to be the most creative"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1100.77,"endTime":1103.2,"body":"people walking the face of the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1103.23,"endTime":1105.18,"body":"earth and the first thing you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1103.23,"endTime":1105.18,"body":"want to do is put us all in the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1105.18,"endTime":1110.07,"body":"same funnel. That is the most"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1105.18,"endTime":1110.07,"body":"pathetic lane and you look"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1110.07,"endTime":1112.89,"body":"around at the industry and you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1110.07,"endTime":1112.89,"body":"go look, it's no surprise that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1112.89,"endTime":1116.49,"body":"the industry is teetering."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1112.89,"endTime":1116.49,"body":"Because that is not not the way"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1116.49,"endTime":1119.79,"body":"to do it. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1116.49,"endTime":1119.79,"body":"Instagram to me, that was the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1119.79,"endTime":1126.09,"body":"first network I deleted. And I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1119.79,"endTime":1126.09,"body":"literally detoxed for two weeks,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1126.12,"endTime":1130.44,"body":"I physically detoxed, where,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1126.12,"endTime":1130.44,"body":"when I would be between tasks"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1130.47,"endTime":1135.12,"body":"online, my brain would default"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1130.47,"endTime":1135.12,"body":"to Instagram and I caught myself"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1135.12,"endTime":1138.66,"body":"and I thought, holy cow, and I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1135.12,"endTime":1138.66,"body":"don't have a physical addiction"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1138.66,"endTime":1142.08,"body":"problem. It runs in my family to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1138.66,"endTime":1142.08,"body":"a certain degree, but I didn't"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1142.08,"endTime":1147.45,"body":"get it. But I was like, wow, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1142.08,"endTime":1147.45,"body":"kind of feel like this thing has"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1147.48,"endTime":1150.12,"body":"a little bit of control over me"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1147.48,"endTime":1150.12,"body":"that I'm not happy. Two weeks"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1150.12,"endTime":1152.49,"body":"later, I sort of was like"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1150.12,"endTime":1152.49,"body":"surfing, you come out of the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1152.49,"endTime":1155.64,"body":"barrel and you you're like, wow,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1152.49,"endTime":1155.64,"body":"that was incredible. And you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1155.64,"endTime":1159.18,"body":"turn and look back and I look"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1155.64,"endTime":1159.18,"body":"back on that period of my life"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1159.18,"endTime":1162.03,"body":"where I was on Instagram, I kind"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1159.18,"endTime":1162.03,"body":"of find I'm kind of embarrassed."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1162.66,"endTime":1165.21,"body":"And I get why people use it."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1162.66,"endTime":1165.21,"body":"There's no question of the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1165.21,"endTime":1167.91,"body":"strategic and the fact that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1165.21,"endTime":1167.91,"body":"everyone has bought into such a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1167.91,"endTime":1172.26,"body":"degree is what allows it to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1167.91,"endTime":1172.26,"body":"thrive. But life outside of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1172.26,"endTime":1175.89,"body":"social to me, and I still have a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1172.26,"endTime":1175.89,"body":"Twitter account, I have a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1175.89,"endTime":1178.56,"body":"YouTube channel now, so I'm a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1175.89,"endTime":1178.56,"body":"total hypocrite in some ways."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1178.77,"endTime":1181.53,"body":"But those are primarily... you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1178.77,"endTime":1181.53,"body":"know, when I deleted social It"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1181.53,"endTime":1184.71,"body":"was so long ago, that Blurb at"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1181.53,"endTime":1184.71,"body":"the time asked me to keep my"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1184.71,"endTime":1187.5,"body":"Twitter account. If I was doing"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1184.71,"endTime":1187.5,"body":"this today, they would ask me,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1187.53,"endTime":1189.48,"body":"they would have asked me to keep"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1187.53,"endTime":1189.48,"body":"my Instagram account, but at the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1189.48,"endTime":1191.25,"body":"time they were said, you know,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1189.48,"endTime":1191.25,"body":"can you keep your Twitter"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1191.25,"endTime":1192.9,"body":"account? I said, yeah, I don't"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1191.25,"endTime":1192.9,"body":"want to be a jerk about the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1192.9,"endTime":1197.22,"body":"whole thing. I'll keep it. But I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1192.9,"endTime":1197.22,"body":"really felt a lot better. And to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1197.22,"endTime":1199.68,"body":"your point, you know,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1197.22,"endTime":1199.68,"body":"occasionally I'll do a portfolio"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1199.68,"endTime":1203.25,"body":"review. And people walk up with"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1199.68,"endTime":1203.25,"body":"an iPad. And I kind of feel the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1203.25,"endTime":1205.98,"body":"same way. Because when I see"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1203.25,"endTime":1205.98,"body":"work on an iPad, it's typically"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1205.98,"endTime":1208.89,"body":"not edited very well, there's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1205.98,"endTime":1208.89,"body":"far too many images, there's no"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1208.89,"endTime":1211.2,"body":"penalty for the, you know,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1208.89,"endTime":1211.2,"body":"keeping things in the digital"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1211.2,"endTime":1215.37,"body":"space. And I've done portfolio"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1211.2,"endTime":1215.37,"body":"reviews where the, where the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1215.37,"endTime":1220.08,"body":"reviewers to my right and left,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1215.37,"endTime":1220.08,"body":"were so far superior to me, it's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1220.08,"endTime":1222.96,"body":"not even funny. They're like"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1220.08,"endTime":1222.96,"body":"legends in photography. And I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1222.96,"endTime":1227.34,"body":"remember Jeff Dune is in LA put"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1222.96,"endTime":1227.34,"body":"together this incredible"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1227.4,"endTime":1230.76,"body":"portfolio review a few years"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1227.4,"endTime":1230.76,"body":"ago. And I'm looking at the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1230.76,"endTime":1233.28,"body":"lineup of reviewers, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1230.76,"endTime":1233.28,"body":"thinking why am I even on this"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1233.28,"endTime":1236.28,"body":"list? Like I don't, I don't"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1233.28,"endTime":1236.28,"body":"deserve to be on this list. But"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1236.28,"endTime":1238.98,"body":"the two people next to me, I sat"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1236.28,"endTime":1238.98,"body":"down and I was like, Oh, my God,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1238.98,"endTime":1243.15,"body":"these are my heroes, there's a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1238.98,"endTime":1243.15,"body":"hero. And after the first couple"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1243.15,"endTime":1246.63,"body":"of people, one of these folks"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1243.15,"endTime":1246.63,"body":"leans into me and says, Why"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1246.63,"endTime":1251.25,"body":"would anyone show their work on"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1246.63,"endTime":1251.25,"body":"a on an iPad? You know, where?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1251.49,"endTime":1254.76,"body":"Why are they not printing, like,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1251.49,"endTime":1254.76,"body":"show me a box of prints? And I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1254.76,"endTime":1257.22,"body":"was like, Look, it's a whole"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1254.76,"endTime":1257.22,"body":"different ballgame now, like,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1257.22,"endTime":1259.23,"body":"get ready, because at some"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1257.22,"endTime":1259.23,"body":"point, it's just gonna be a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1259.23,"endTime":1260.94,"body":"phone or you know, something,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1259.23,"endTime":1260.94,"body":"but..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1261.0,"endTime":1263.46,"body":"Right, right."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1261.0,"endTime":1263.46,"body":"Let me airdrop it to you."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1263.87,"endTime":1266.33,"body":"Yeah, it's, um,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1263.87,"endTime":1266.33,"body":"you know, it's different. It's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1266.36,"endTime":1268.97,"body":"just a different time. It's not"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1266.36,"endTime":1268.97,"body":"a it's not a better or worse"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1268.97,"endTime":1272.6,"body":"time. It's just a different,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1268.97,"endTime":1272.6,"body":"completely different time. You"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1272.6,"endTime":1274.7,"body":"know, I look back at the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1272.6,"endTime":1274.7,"body":"beginnings of my career, I had"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1274.7,"endTime":1278.96,"body":"no social, no computer, no"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1274.7,"endTime":1278.96,"body":"phone. And my entire career was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1278.99,"endTime":1282.8,"body":"based on a landline telephone,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1278.99,"endTime":1282.8,"body":"calling people in New York that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1282.8,"endTime":1287.99,"body":"I didn't know. And, and somehow"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1282.8,"endTime":1287.99,"body":"it worked. And oddly enough,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1287.99,"endTime":1291.11,"body":"these people I didn't know would"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1287.99,"endTime":1291.11,"body":"actually answer their telephone."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1291.68,"endTime":1295.22,"body":"You know, I would cold call some"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1291.68,"endTime":1295.22,"body":"editor in Manhattan and they'd"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1295.22,"endTime":1299.84,"body":"be like, hello. And you know, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1295.22,"endTime":1299.84,"body":"live in Laguna Beach, and I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1299.84,"endTime":1302.03,"body":"really want to work for your"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1299.84,"endTime":1302.03,"body":"magazine; oh, well, hey, send me"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1302.03,"endTime":1304.85,"body":"a portfolio. Now, you know,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1302.03,"endTime":1304.85,"body":"those people are never gonna get"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1304.85,"endTime":1308.27,"body":"them in person on the phone. And"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1304.85,"endTime":1308.27,"body":"there's 800 ways of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1308.27,"endTime":1310.97,"body":"communicating with him. It's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1308.27,"endTime":1310.97,"body":"just a different scenario."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1311.0,"endTime":1313.79,"body":"There's so many things about"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1311.0,"endTime":1313.79,"body":"today that are, that are"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1313.79,"endTime":1318.38,"body":"incredible. And then there were"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1313.79,"endTime":1318.38,"body":"so many things about the pace of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1318.38,"endTime":1322.49,"body":"life back in those days, that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1318.38,"endTime":1322.49,"body":"was much more, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1322.49,"endTime":1325.94,"body":"humanistic than it is today. You"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1322.49,"endTime":1325.94,"body":"know, the fact of not having a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1325.94,"endTime":1329.06,"body":"phone and a computer was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1325.94,"endTime":1329.06,"body":"actually a really good thing in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1329.06,"endTime":1329.6,"body":"some ways."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1330.41,"endTime":1332.48,"body":"What would you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1330.41,"endTime":1332.48,"body":"say? Alright, so aside from"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1332.48,"endTime":1335.72,"body":"quitting photography, we talked"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1332.48,"endTime":1335.72,"body":"about, what were some career"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1335.72,"endTime":1339.62,"body":"decisions or twists of fate that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1335.72,"endTime":1339.62,"body":"took you in a positive"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1339.62,"endTime":1340.43,"body":"direction?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1342.92,"endTime":1344.99,"body":"Let me think"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1342.92,"endTime":1344.99,"body":"about that, starting to study"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1344.99,"endTime":1348.89,"body":"other fields, being more well"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1344.99,"endTime":1348.89,"body":"rounded."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1350.24,"endTime":1353.87,"body":"I love your book"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1350.24,"endTime":1353.87,"body":"list, by the way on your shifter"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1353.87,"endTime":1357.02,"body":"site. Yeah, I was like, This is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1353.87,"endTime":1357.02,"body":"some good recommendations."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1357.0,"endTime":1359.28,"body":"Yeah, reading to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1357.0,"endTime":1359.28,"body":"me was, again, was something I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1359.28,"endTime":1362.01,"body":"just sort of put on hold I was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1359.28,"endTime":1362.01,"body":"reading during my career, but"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1362.01,"endTime":1365.88,"body":"not nearly like I'm doing now."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1362.01,"endTime":1365.88,"body":"And the odd thing was when I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1365.88,"endTime":1368.76,"body":"deleted social the first time, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1365.88,"endTime":1368.76,"body":"made the secondary decision to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1368.76,"endTime":1372.06,"body":"just anytime I felt my brain"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1368.76,"endTime":1372.06,"body":"saying go online, instead of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1372.06,"endTime":1376.38,"body":"doing that, just read. And so"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1372.06,"endTime":1376.38,"body":"the first year alone, I read 80"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1376.38,"endTime":1379.41,"body":"books, I read 80 the second"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1376.38,"endTime":1379.41,"body":"year, 80 the third year, and all"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1379.41,"endTime":1381.99,"body":"of a sudden, you're like, wow, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1379.41,"endTime":1381.99,"body":"kind of feel intelligent, I feel"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1381.99,"endTime":1387.45,"body":"like I know more than shutter"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1381.99,"endTime":1387.45,"body":"speed. So reading and branching"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1387.45,"endTime":1389.46,"body":"out, getting back into a lot of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1387.45,"endTime":1389.46,"body":"the things that I was into"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1389.46,"endTime":1394.23,"body":"before, being more well rounded."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1389.46,"endTime":1394.23,"body":"And also, like you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1394.23,"endTime":1397.47,"body":"this earlier, but one of the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1394.23,"endTime":1397.47,"body":"cool things about my job is that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1397.47,"endTime":1405.06,"body":"I get to help other people. It's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1397.47,"endTime":1405.06,"body":"so much more fulfilling, for me"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1405.06,"endTime":1408.36,"body":"to say, oh, okay, you know,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1405.06,"endTime":1408.36,"body":"here's a person that is trying"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1408.36,"endTime":1411.0,"body":"to do something either"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1408.36,"endTime":1411.0,"body":"photographically or publishing"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1411.0,"endTime":1413.76,"body":"wise or whatever and there's a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1411.0,"endTime":1413.76,"body":"riddle that they do not know how"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1413.76,"endTime":1417.24,"body":"to figure out. And for whatever"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1413.76,"endTime":1417.24,"body":"reason, my little twisted"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1417.24,"endTime":1420.81,"body":"background, I might have an"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1417.24,"endTime":1420.81,"body":"answer to that riddle. And just"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1420.81,"endTime":1424.02,"body":"little tiny things. I mean, when"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1420.81,"endTime":1424.02,"body":"I started a YouTube channel"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1424.05,"endTime":1426.42,"body":"about a year ago, and again, it"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1424.05,"endTime":1426.42,"body":"was because Blurb was asking for"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1426.42,"endTime":1428.91,"body":"motion content, I don't know how"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1426.42,"endTime":1428.91,"body":"to do films, I'm like, Okay, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1428.91,"endTime":1432.45,"body":"need to learn how to do this."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1428.91,"endTime":1432.45,"body":"And the sort of things that I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1432.45,"endTime":1434.85,"body":"would mention in these films"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1432.45,"endTime":1434.85,"body":"very casually that I thought"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1434.85,"endTime":1437.55,"body":"were things that everybody knew."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1434.85,"endTime":1437.55,"body":"And all of a sudden people would"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1437.55,"endTime":1441.0,"body":"be like, what was that you said,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1437.55,"endTime":1441.0,"body":"like, for example, box speed,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1441.06,"endTime":1444.57,"body":"rating of a piece of analog"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1441.06,"endTime":1444.57,"body":"film, Tri-X, or whatever it is,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1444.6,"endTime":1446.94,"body":"and not shooting at a box speed,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1444.6,"endTime":1446.94,"body":"but shooting at different. . ."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1446.94,"endTime":1447.75,"body":"but people are like wha"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1446.94,"endTime":1447.75,"body":"are you talking about? And I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1447.75,"endTime":1451.59,"body":"m like, no way, I thought it w"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1447.75,"endTime":1451.59,"body":"s sort of common global knowle"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1451.59,"endTime":1458.91,"body":"ge. Another thing that I started"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1451.59,"endTime":1458.91,"body":"to do that it took me way, way"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1458.91,"endTime":1461.88,"body":"oo long to understand was colla"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1458.91,"endTime":1461.88,"body":"orate, and collaborati"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1461.88,"endTime":1467.13,"body":"g through the travels at Blurb"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1461.88,"endTime":1467.13,"body":"I was able to meet a lot of ta"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1467.13,"endTime":1470.28,"body":"ented people that I would"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1467.13,"endTime":1470.28,"body":"have never met had it not be"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1470.28,"endTime":1473.13,"body":"n for the Blurb job and I woul"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1470.28,"endTime":1473.13,"body":"have never met them had I no"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1473.13,"endTime":1475.44,"body":"stopped working as a photogr"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1473.13,"endTime":1475.44,"body":"pher. And all of a s"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1475.44,"endTime":1478.29,"body":"dden, I'm around these peo"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1475.44,"endTime":1478.29,"body":"le. And I'm like, wow, these peo"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1478.29,"endTime":1481.32,"body":"le are way more advanced than I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1478.29,"endTime":1481.32,"body":"am. And what I figured out early"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1481.35,"endTime":1484.14,"body":"on was that my gift in the coll"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1481.35,"endTime":1484.14,"body":"boration process is get"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1484.14,"endTime":1488.79,"body":"ing the ball rolling. That's the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1484.14,"endTime":1488.79,"body":"end of my scope."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1490.65,"endTime":1491.64,"body":"You're the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1490.65,"endTime":1491.64,"body":"activator."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1491.66,"endTime":1494.48,"body":"Yeah, I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1491.66,"endTime":1494.48,"body":"Hey, we should do X, Y, and Z"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1494.51,"endTime":1497.27,"body":"and people are busy and they go,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1494.51,"endTime":1497.27,"body":"I don't have time to do that."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1497.27,"endTime":1500.45,"body":"I'm like, well, I'll get it"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1497.27,"endTime":1500.45,"body":"started. And then I collaborate"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1500.45,"endTime":1505.22,"body":"with people who are way more"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1500.45,"endTime":1505.22,"body":"talented. And the second I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1505.22,"endTime":1508.52,"body":"started collaborating, the work"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1505.22,"endTime":1508.52,"body":"one got way better, way more"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1508.52,"endTime":1512.84,"body":"diverse, way more conceptual, a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1508.52,"endTime":1512.84,"body":"lot less linear. And I almost"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1512.84,"endTime":1515.96,"body":"started to increase my knowledge"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1512.84,"endTime":1515.96,"body":"through [or] based on other"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1515.96,"endTime":1519.47,"body":"people. I mean, I've been able"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1515.96,"endTime":1519.47,"body":"to do some really amazing"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1519.47,"endTime":1522.5,"body":"collaborations in the last few"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1519.47,"endTime":1522.5,"body":"years that have changed my"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1522.5,"endTime":1525.32,"body":"entire philosophy about being"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1522.5,"endTime":1525.32,"body":"creative"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1526.25,"endTime":1527.6,"body":"Can you give an"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1526.25,"endTime":1527.6,"body":"example?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1527.96,"endTime":1531.8,"body":"Yeah, so I, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1527.96,"endTime":1531.8,"body":"would say I would go back to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1532.58,"endTime":1537.62,"body":"probably 2012 I think it was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1532.58,"endTime":1537.62,"body":"around 2012. I met a designer in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1537.62,"endTime":1543.41,"body":"Sydney named Chloe Ferres. And"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1537.62,"endTime":1543.41,"body":"Chloe had done a book through"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1543.41,"endTime":1552.29,"body":"Blurb. That was a book about"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1543.41,"endTime":1552.29,"body":"Irma Boom, the architect. But"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1552.29,"endTime":1557.12,"body":"Chloe had done a book unlike any"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1552.29,"endTime":1557.12,"body":"other book I've ever seen, done"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1557.12,"endTime":1560.12,"body":"through Blurb. The only one, of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1557.12,"endTime":1560.12,"body":"the millions of books that have"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1560.12,"endTime":1562.82,"body":"been done, she had created"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1560.12,"endTime":1562.82,"body":"something completely and utterly"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1562.82,"endTime":1566.03,"body":"unique. And it sort of gamed our"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1562.82,"endTime":1566.03,"body":"system into allowing her to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1566.03,"endTime":1569.96,"body":"create this very special book."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1566.03,"endTime":1569.96,"body":"And I was like, wow. And it was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1569.96,"endTime":1573.2,"body":"a book designed to be altered"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1569.96,"endTime":1573.2,"body":"after you bought it. You had to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1573.2,"endTime":1576.68,"body":"cut each individual page inside"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1573.2,"endTime":1576.68,"body":"the book with a straight edge."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1576.71,"endTime":1578.99,"body":"And she gave you instructions."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1576.71,"endTime":1578.99,"body":"And I'm like, never seen that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1578.99,"endTime":1579.44,"body":"before."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1579.93,"endTime":1581.16,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1579.93,"endTime":1581.16,"body":"awesome."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1581.3,"endTime":1583.94,"body":"I went to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1581.3,"endTime":1583.94,"body":"Australia, several times for"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1583.94,"endTime":1587.84,"body":"Blurb. And on the first trip, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1583.94,"endTime":1587.84,"body":"met her, and Chloe is like a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1587.84,"endTime":1591.14,"body":"tour de force. She was a dual"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1587.84,"endTime":1591.14,"body":"major at the time. Anyway, she's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1591.17,"endTime":1593.45,"body":"out of school and working now."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1591.17,"endTime":1593.45,"body":"But she was a really skilled"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1593.45,"endTime":1595.16,"body":"photographer and a really"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1593.45,"endTime":1595.16,"body":"skilled designer and a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1595.16,"endTime":1598.85,"body":"publication designer. And so a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1595.16,"endTime":1598.85,"body":"couple of years later, I'm in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1598.85,"endTime":1602.42,"body":"Florida with photographer Andrew"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1598.85,"endTime":1602.42,"body":"Kaufman, and we decide we're"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1602.42,"endTime":1605.12,"body":"going to do this collaborative"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1602.42,"endTime":1605.12,"body":"photographic project on Miami,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1605.33,"endTime":1608.96,"body":"where we go out and we shoot for"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1605.33,"endTime":1608.96,"body":"48 hours straight, and I was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1608.96,"endTime":1612.02,"body":"shooting Polaroids and he was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1608.96,"endTime":1612.02,"body":"shooting color film. And when we"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1612.02,"endTime":1614.57,"body":"got done with it, we sort of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1612.02,"endTime":1614.57,"body":"looked at the overall take, and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1614.57,"endTime":1617.03,"body":"he's like, what are we going to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1614.57,"endTime":1617.03,"body":"do with this? And I said, what I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1617.03,"endTime":1620.6,"body":"would love to do is send this to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1617.03,"endTime":1620.6,"body":"Chloe Ferres. And I was like, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1620.6,"endTime":1624.62,"body":"don't know if she'll do anything"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1620.6,"endTime":1624.62,"body":"with it.... And sure enough, she"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1624.62,"endTime":1628.04,"body":"wrote back and she goes, I'll do"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1624.62,"endTime":1628.04,"body":"this if you let me cut your"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1628.04,"endTime":1633.2,"body":"photographs up. And I was like,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1628.04,"endTime":1633.2,"body":"no problem. Andrew Kaufman was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1633.2,"endTime":1635.6,"body":"like, what, what are you talking"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1633.2,"endTime":1635.6,"body":"about? And I was like, trust me,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1635.63,"endTime":1638.45,"body":"she will do something with this"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1635.63,"endTime":1638.45,"body":"that you will never see coming."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1639.17,"endTime":1641.54,"body":"And sure enough, we did this"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1639.17,"endTime":1641.54,"body":"book called Magic City, which"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1641.54,"endTime":1645.02,"body":"was a book designed to be cut"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1641.54,"endTime":1645.02,"body":"into pieces. And I went back to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1645.02,"endTime":1647.72,"body":"Miami, we did a second book"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1645.02,"endTime":1647.72,"body":"called Magic City Two. And it's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1647.72,"endTime":1650.48,"body":"a book design where all the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1647.72,"endTime":1650.48,"body":"internal pages fold, and they"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1650.48,"endTime":1652.73,"body":"reveal a secondary design that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1650.48,"endTime":1652.73,"body":"you would never see if you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1652.73,"endTime":1653.69,"body":"hadn't folded the pages."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1653.72,"endTime":1655.07,"body":"Wow, that's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1653.72,"endTime":1655.07,"body":"amazing."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1655.0,"endTime":1657.79,"body":"of 20 million or"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1655.0,"endTime":1657.79,"body":"15 million books through blurb"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1657.79,"endTime":1661.06,"body":"no one has ever done a book like"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1657.79,"endTime":1661.06,"body":"this. And that book, you cannot"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1661.06,"endTime":1663.28,"body":"believe what happened with that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1661.06,"endTime":1663.28,"body":"book. But here's the other"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1663.28,"endTime":1667.3,"body":"twist, is we specifically"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1663.28,"endTime":1667.3,"body":"decided not to make that book"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1667.3,"endTime":1670.9,"body":"publicly for sale. The only way"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1667.3,"endTime":1670.9,"body":"to get that book was to have a,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1670.9,"endTime":1675.16,"body":"quote, personal experience with"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1670.9,"endTime":1675.16,"body":"one of the three of us. And"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1675.16,"endTime":1678.94,"body":"that, and that would vary."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1675.16,"endTime":1678.94,"body":"Nothing, you know, nefarious"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1678.94,"endTime":1682.9,"body":"here, but it would, it would"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1678.94,"endTime":1682.9,"body":"vary depending on where we were."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1682.9,"endTime":1686.35,"body":"And the second that people"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1682.9,"endTime":1686.35,"body":"couldn't get that book. T`hey"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1686.35,"endTime":1690.94,"body":"wanted it 1000 times more. And"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1686.35,"endTime":1690.94,"body":"people would go crazy trying to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1690.94,"endTime":1694.93,"body":"get copies of that book. That"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1690.94,"endTime":1694.93,"body":"one taught me a lot. And then"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1696.34,"endTime":1700.21,"body":"recently, about two years ago,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1696.34,"endTime":1700.21,"body":"this is the last collab that I'm"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1700.21,"endTime":1702.58,"body":"still working on that I'm hoping"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1700.21,"endTime":1702.58,"body":"is going to last for a long,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1702.58,"endTime":1707.23,"body":"long time - years. I met,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1702.58,"endTime":1707.23,"body":"there's a photographer in Orange"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1707.23,"endTime":1709.87,"body":"County, a friend of mine, and he"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1707.23,"endTime":1709.87,"body":"calls me and he goes, Hey,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1709.87,"endTime":1711.76,"body":"there's this guy that wants to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1709.87,"endTime":1711.76,"body":"meet you. He's a friend of mine."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1712.0,"endTime":1715.27,"body":"And I said, Okay, and my buddy"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1712.0,"endTime":1715.27,"body":"was having a birthday party for"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1715.27,"endTime":1717.76,"body":"his two year old. And so we all"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1715.27,"endTime":1717.76,"body":"went to this two year old"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1717.76,"endTime":1720.37,"body":"birthday party. And I meet this"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1717.76,"endTime":1720.37,"body":"guy..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1720.43,"endTime":1722.53,"body":"Where all the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1720.43,"endTime":1722.53,"body":"best collaborations begin."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1722.57,"endTime":1724.1,"body":"I mean, a two"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1722.57,"endTime":1724.1,"body":"year old's birthday parties are"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1724.1,"endTime":1727.61,"body":"really fun. I mean, there's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1724.1,"endTime":1727.61,"body":"cake, there's candy, there's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1727.61,"endTime":1732.86,"body":"screaming, it's what every adult"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1727.61,"endTime":1732.86,"body":"really wants. And I meet this"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1732.86,"endTime":1735.5,"body":"guy, his name's Rick Elder. He's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1732.86,"endTime":1735.5,"body":"a director of a clothing brand."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1735.92,"endTime":1738.8,"body":"A brand called Beyond out of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1735.92,"endTime":1738.8,"body":"Seattle. I didn't know Rick, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1738.8,"endTime":1741.95,"body":"didn't know Beyond, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1738.8,"endTime":1741.95,"body":"know anything about him. And we"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1741.95,"endTime":1745.04,"body":"sit down and we're talking and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1741.95,"endTime":1745.04,"body":"Rick has never been a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1745.04,"endTime":1748.46,"body":"professional photographer. But"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1745.04,"endTime":1748.46,"body":"he's very, very interested an"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1748.46,"endTime":1752.63,"body":"keen and is a complete devote"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1748.46,"endTime":1752.63,"body":"of photography. He shoots al"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1752.63,"endTime":1756.44,"body":"the time. And he says te"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1752.63,"endTime":1756.44,"body":"minutes after meeting and he'"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1756.44,"endTime":1759.2,"body":"like, we're doing somethin"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1756.44,"endTime":1759.2,"body":"together. We're doing a projec"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1759.2,"endTime":1762.71,"body":"together. And I was like, no"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1759.2,"endTime":1762.71,"body":"we're not, you know, I'm busy."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1762.71,"endTime":1764.69,"body":"don't know you. I don't kno"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1762.71,"endTime":1764.69,"body":"what you're talking about. He'"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1764.69,"endTime":1767.27,"body":"like, we're gonna do something"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1764.69,"endTime":1767.27,"body":"And I'm like, no, we're not an"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1767.48,"endTime":1770.78,"body":"but there was like, som"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1767.48,"endTime":1770.78,"body":"endearing thing about Rick an"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1770.78,"endTime":1774.62,"body":"he's like, so driven. So h"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1770.78,"endTime":1774.62,"body":"keeps passing through Orang"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1774.62,"endTime":1776.51,"body":"County and he's like, let's g"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1774.62,"endTime":1776.51,"body":"to lunch, let's go to lunch. S"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1776.51,"endTime":1778.82,"body":"I would hang out with him. An"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1776.51,"endTime":1778.82,"body":"he was very interesting guy t"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1778.82,"endTime":1780.47,"body":"hang out with because hi"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1778.82,"endTime":1780.47,"body":"background was completel"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1780.47,"endTime":1784.7,"body":"different than mine. And I g"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1780.47,"endTime":1784.7,"body":"What are you talking about? I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1784.7,"endTime":1786.95,"body":"we're going to do something. H"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1784.7,"endTime":1786.95,"body":"goes, you know, let's do"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1786.95,"endTime":1790.61,"body":"printed something together. An"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1786.95,"endTime":1790.61,"body":"I go, well, what are we going t"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1790.61,"endTime":1793.61,"body":"do? What's the goal? I go Blur"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1790.61,"endTime":1793.61,"body":"and Beyond have nothing i"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1793.61,"endTime":1796.52,"body":"common. Like, what are we goin"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1793.61,"endTime":1796.52,"body":"to do? He goes, we're going t"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1796.52,"endTime":1799.58,"body":"do something that just promote"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1796.52,"endTime":1799.58,"body":"understanding. We're going t"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1799.58,"endTime":1801.56,"body":"print whatever we want to prin"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1799.58,"endTime":1801.56,"body":"and it's going to promot"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1801.56,"endTime":1805.43,"body":"understanding. And I was like"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1801.56,"endTime":1805.43,"body":"No, I go too time consuming, to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1805.43,"endTime":1808.61,"body":"costly. It's going to be"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1805.43,"endTime":1808.61,"body":"nightmare. I'm not doing this"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1808.64,"endTime":1812.45,"body":"This is something he reminds m"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1808.64,"endTime":1812.45,"body":"of all the time. He always goes"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1812.45,"endTime":1814.79,"body":"You said no, you said no, yo"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1812.45,"endTime":1814.79,"body":"said no. I was like, Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1814.79,"endTime":1818.84,"body":"did. This is not going to b"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1814.79,"endTime":1818.84,"body":"easy. And so we still hadn'"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1818.84,"endTime":1821.69,"body":"really defined it yet. And the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1818.84,"endTime":1821.69,"body":"he just kept wearing me down"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1821.72,"endTime":1825.47,"body":"And he wore me down. And"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1821.72,"endTime":1825.47,"body":"realized, I was like, maybe I a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1825.47,"endTime":1829.07,"body":"the one that is the weak lin"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1825.47,"endTime":1829.07,"body":"here. Maybe I need to rethin"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1829.07,"endTime":1831.02,"body":"this. And so I thought, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1829.07,"endTime":1831.02,"body":"know how to get rid of them"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1832.28,"endTime":1834.77,"body":"I'll just talk to him about wha"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1832.28,"endTime":1834.77,"body":"it's going to cost to do this"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1834.8,"endTime":1836.78,"body":"And then he'll be like, I'm no"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1834.8,"endTime":1836.78,"body":"gonna pay for that. And I'"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1836.78,"endTime":1838.52,"body":"like, Well, I'm not paying fo"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1836.78,"endTime":1838.52,"body":"it. You know"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1839.56,"endTime":1840.4,"body":"It's your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1839.56,"endTime":1840.4,"body":"idea..."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1840.0,"endTime":1845.79,"body":"Your idea, you're"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1840.0,"endTime":1845.79,"body":"gonna pay for it. I said, Okay,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1845.79,"endTime":1848.67,"body":"what do you want to do? And we"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1845.79,"endTime":1848.67,"body":"decided on doing a zine, a twice"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1848.67,"endTime":1852.33,"body":"a year thing. 60 page,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1848.67,"endTime":1852.33,"body":"softcover, nothing fancy. It's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1852.33,"endTime":1855.84,"body":"not a prized object. It's not"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1852.33,"endTime":1855.84,"body":"fancy. That's not the idea. The"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1855.84,"endTime":1859.05,"body":"zine is just a catalyst to get"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1855.84,"endTime":1859.05,"body":"people interested in the stories"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1859.05,"endTime":1861.33,"body":"that we have inside. And the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1859.05,"endTime":1861.33,"body":"stories can be anything we want."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1862.2,"endTime":1865.32,"body":"And the first thing I said to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1862.2,"endTime":1865.32,"body":"him was, we gotta hire a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1865.32,"endTime":1869.31,"body":"designer. And, I was like, he's,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1865.32,"endTime":1869.31,"body":"he's gonna balk and say, I don't"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1869.31,"endTime":1871.2,"body":"want to pay for that. And I was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1869.31,"endTime":1871.2,"body":"like, Look, I'm not doing it if"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1871.2,"endTime":1873.06,"body":"we don't have a designer,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1871.2,"endTime":1873.06,"body":"because neither one of us is"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1873.06,"endTime":1876.99,"body":"good enough to do it. And so I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1873.06,"endTime":1876.99,"body":"reached out to Zoe Sadokierski"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1876.99,"endTime":1881.46,"body":"in Sydney, who I had also met in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1876.99,"endTime":1881.46,"body":"Australia prior. And I'd done an"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1881.46,"endTime":1884.31,"body":"interview with her where I hired"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1881.46,"endTime":1884.31,"body":"a film crew, and we came in and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1884.34,"endTime":1887.01,"body":"went to UTS and did this"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1884.34,"endTime":1887.01,"body":"interview with her. And I was so"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1887.01,"endTime":1890.67,"body":"blown away by her as a person."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1887.01,"endTime":1890.67,"body":"And also she had her own"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1890.67,"endTime":1893.52,"body":"publishing imprint, she founded"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1890.67,"endTime":1893.52,"body":"the Australian book design"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1893.52,"endTime":1896.22,"body":"Association, she'd been designer"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1893.52,"endTime":1896.22,"body":"of the year and she was just"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1896.22,"endTime":1899.43,"body":"this most down to earth. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1896.22,"endTime":1899.43,"body":"I have no background in design."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1899.94,"endTime":1902.73,"body":"So when I'm talking to a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1899.94,"endTime":1902.73,"body":"designer, I feel like Crocodile"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1902.73,"endTime":1906.45,"body":"Dundee, like I just, I don't, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1902.73,"endTime":1906.45,"body":"don't fit in, I can't talk that,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1906.45,"endTime":1911.13,"body":"and Zoe was so accommodating,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1906.45,"endTime":1911.13,"body":"and kind, and also, at the same"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1911.13,"endTime":1916.92,"body":"time, just gung ho about trying"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1911.13,"endTime":1916.92,"body":"new things. And I went to her"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1916.92,"endTime":1919.65,"body":"and said, you know, do you know"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1916.92,"endTime":1919.65,"body":"of anyone who would be"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1919.65,"endTime":1922.62,"body":"interested in designing this"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1919.65,"endTime":1922.62,"body":"zine? And she goes, What is it?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1922.68,"endTime":1926.04,"body":"And I go, it's a zine to promote"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1922.68,"endTime":1926.04,"body":"understanding through design and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1926.04,"endTime":1929.67,"body":"art, dialogue, and art. And"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1926.04,"endTime":1929.67,"body":"we're going to print whatever"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1929.67,"endTime":1932.43,"body":"stories we want, whether they're"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1929.67,"endTime":1932.43,"body":"from professionals or non"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1932.43,"endTime":1934.68,"body":"professionals, it does not"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1932.43,"endTime":1934.68,"body":"matter. If we think it's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1934.68,"endTime":1937.59,"body":"interesting, we'll print it. And"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1934.68,"endTime":1937.59,"body":"she goes, I want to do it. You"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1937.59,"endTime":1939.57,"body":"know, that's what my life is"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1937.59,"endTime":1939.57,"body":"about. I want to be the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1939.57,"endTime":1943.47,"body":"designer. And so we got her. And"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1939.57,"endTime":1943.47,"body":"I kept thinking, Okay, what else"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1943.47,"endTime":1947.46,"body":"can I tack onto this list that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1943.47,"endTime":1947.46,"body":"will drive Rick away from this"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1947.46,"endTime":1950.58,"body":"project, and there was nothing"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1947.46,"endTime":1950.58,"body":"to put on there. So we had the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1950.58,"endTime":1953.7,"body":"first issues out, it's sold out,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1950.58,"endTime":1953.7,"body":"the second issue right before I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1953.7,"endTime":1957.33,"body":"called you today, I was sending"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1953.7,"endTime":1957.33,"body":"the proof off to Zoe for"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1957.48,"endTime":1961.41,"body":"corrections. And we're about to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1957.48,"endTime":1961.41,"body":"do issue two and issue three is"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1961.41,"endTime":1965.67,"body":"full. And I have two people for"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1961.41,"endTime":1965.67,"body":"issue four. That has been the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1965.67,"endTime":1971.37,"body":"collaboration experiment. It is"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1965.67,"endTime":1971.37,"body":"not easy. Anyone who tells you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1971.37,"endTime":1975.18,"body":"that it is easy is crazy. It is"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1971.37,"endTime":1975.18,"body":"a battle to do something like"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1975.18,"endTime":1979.56,"body":"this, it takes so much time and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1975.18,"endTime":1979.56,"body":"energy and money. It's a very"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1979.56,"endTime":1983.85,"body":"expensive process. And then"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1979.56,"endTime":1983.85,"body":"convincing those around you, you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1983.85,"endTime":1987.51,"body":"know, explaining this to Blurb."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1983.85,"endTime":1987.51,"body":"The marketing department, even"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1987.51,"endTime":1990.36,"body":"though there's Blurb - our large"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1987.51,"endTime":1990.36,"body":"order services is printing it,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1990.36,"endTime":1992.79,"body":"but there's nothing in the zine"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1990.36,"endTime":1992.79,"body":"about Blurb, that's not the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1992.79,"endTime":1995.79,"body":"point. There's nothing in it"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1992.79,"endTime":1995.79,"body":"about Beyond. And so it's a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1995.79,"endTime":1999.69,"body":"really hard sell. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1995.79,"endTime":1999.69,"body":"people are like, well, what's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1999.69,"endTime":2001.79,"body":"the goal? And it's like, just to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":1999.69,"endTime":2001.79,"body":"put this stuff out and get"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2001.79,"endTime":2006.65,"body":"people talking about these"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2001.79,"endTime":2006.65,"body":"stories. Yeah, it's it's fun."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2006.65,"endTime":2010.94,"body":"It's interesting and different."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2006.65,"endTime":2010.94,"body":"And you know, we're combining"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2011.21,"endTime":2014.18,"body":"some of the contributors are"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2011.21,"endTime":2014.18,"body":"people I know, some have come"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2014.18,"endTime":2016.31,"body":"through the submission portal on"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2014.18,"endTime":2016.31,"body":"the website, there's all"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2016.31,"endTime":2020.12,"body":"different kinds. I have learned"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2016.31,"endTime":2020.12,"body":"so much in the last year, about"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2020.39,"endTime":2023.96,"body":"even furthering my education"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2020.39,"endTime":2023.96,"body":"about collaboration, about what"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2023.96,"endTime":2027.77,"body":"it means for brands to partner"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2023.96,"endTime":2027.77,"body":"together without overpowering"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2027.77,"endTime":2030.95,"body":"the project, about paying, you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2027.77,"endTime":2030.95,"body":"know, how do you pay"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2030.95,"endTime":2035.09,"body":"contributors? How do you market"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2030.95,"endTime":2035.09,"body":"and promote them? You know,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2035.09,"endTime":2037.79,"body":"building a website, building a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2035.09,"endTime":2037.79,"body":"community, all of this stuff and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2037.79,"endTime":2041.21,"body":"trying to do it without selling"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2037.79,"endTime":2041.21,"body":"out and going down a path that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2041.21,"endTime":2044.15,"body":"we don't want to go down. You"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2041.21,"endTime":2044.15,"body":"know, I'm not gonna beg people"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2044.15,"endTime":2047.06,"body":"to follow us on Instagram to get"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2044.15,"endTime":2047.06,"body":"this to get this group of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2047.06,"endTime":2050.72,"body":"people, there's better ways of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2047.06,"endTime":2050.72,"body":"doing things. It's like a second"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2050.0,"endTime":2051.32,"body":"That's exciting."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2051.35,"endTime":2054.92,"body":"It's like a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2051.35,"endTime":2054.92,"body":"second job for free is what it"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2054.92,"endTime":2055.04,"body":"is."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2055.07,"endTime":2057.83,"body":"I know what"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2055.07,"endTime":2057.83,"body":"that's like, because I publish"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2057.83,"endTime":2058.52,"body":"photo books."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2058.54,"endTime":2061.12,"body":"Exactly. It's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2058.54,"endTime":2061.12,"body":"like when you get up and you go,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2062.38,"endTime":2067.12,"body":"Did I agree to do this? But then"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2062.38,"endTime":2067.12,"body":"something happened. So one of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2067.12,"endTime":2071.11,"body":"the contributors called me two"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2067.12,"endTime":2071.11,"body":"weeks ago, very atypical guy."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2071.74,"endTime":2075.22,"body":"And he's like, Hey, I just sold"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2071.74,"endTime":2075.22,"body":"some prints to a collector in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2075.22,"endTime":2078.79,"body":"Europe. And I go, Oh, that's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2075.22,"endTime":2078.79,"body":"great way to go. And he goes, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2078.79,"endTime":2082.21,"body":"asked the guy how he found me."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2078.79,"endTime":2082.21,"body":"And he said, AG23 the zine and I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2082.21,"endTime":2084.82,"body":"was like, I was like, Oh my god,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2082.21,"endTime":2084.82,"body":"it's working. It's happening."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2084.82,"endTime":2088.3,"body":"It's slowly like building,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2084.82,"endTime":2088.3,"body":"building up. When I think about"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2088.3,"endTime":2092.65,"body":"the future, and that's really"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2088.3,"endTime":2092.65,"body":"fun to like, help someone else"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2092.65,"endTime":2095.89,"body":"realize anything positive in the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2092.65,"endTime":2095.89,"body":"creative space. It's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2095.89,"endTime":2098.08,"body":"fun, and we haven't scratched"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2095.89,"endTime":2098.08,"body":"the surface yet. So this"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2098.08,"endTime":2102.04,"body":"collaboration and others totally"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2098.08,"endTime":2102.04,"body":"changed my life."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2103.0,"endTime":2108.04,"body":"That's amazing."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2103.0,"endTime":2108.04,"body":"So my last question for you. Um,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2108.28,"endTime":2111.94,"body":"so we talked about good"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2108.28,"endTime":2111.94,"body":"decisions that you made? Have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2111.94,"endTime":2117.7,"body":"there been big wrong turns or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2111.94,"endTime":2117.7,"body":"things that you thought were bad"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2117.7,"endTime":2120.19,"body":"decisions at the time in your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2117.7,"endTime":2120.19,"body":"career?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2121.26,"endTime":2123.75,"body":"Yeah, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2121.26,"endTime":2123.75,"body":"there have been some some minor"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2123.75,"endTime":2126.12,"body":"things, there's plenty of things"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2123.75,"endTime":2126.12,"body":"in hindsight that I would have"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2126.12,"endTime":2130.74,"body":"done differently, you know. I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2126.12,"endTime":2130.74,"body":"would have stayed quit in 99, or"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2130.77,"endTime":2133.83,"body":"97, I would have stayed quit, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2130.77,"endTime":2133.83,"body":"think my life would have been"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2133.83,"endTime":2137.79,"body":"very, very different. Had I done"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2133.83,"endTime":2137.79,"body":"that and potentially better. Not"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2138.33,"endTime":2142.65,"body":"like monetarily better, just"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2138.33,"endTime":2142.65,"body":"more diverse. But there were"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2142.65,"endTime":2148.32,"body":"other things about, about taking"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2142.65,"endTime":2148.32,"body":"certain jobs. I had a friend, a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2148.32,"endTime":2150.84,"body":"really good friend in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2148.32,"endTime":2150.84,"body":"California, who unfortunately"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2150.84,"endTime":2154.59,"body":"right now is a bit ill, and not"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2150.84,"endTime":2154.59,"body":"doing so well in life. But he"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2154.62,"endTime":2157.74,"body":"was very influential on me when"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2154.62,"endTime":2157.74,"body":"I first moved to California. He"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2157.74,"endTime":2160.95,"body":"was a designer and a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2157.74,"endTime":2160.95,"body":"photographer. And he said to me,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2160.95,"endTime":2163.95,"body":"once, he said, the jobs you say"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2160.95,"endTime":2163.95,"body":"no to are more important than"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2163.95,"endTime":2167.19,"body":"the ones you take. And I was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2163.95,"endTime":2167.19,"body":"like, what a bunch of BS, I'm"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2167.19,"endTime":2173.16,"body":"like put that on a T shirt. It's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2167.19,"endTime":2173.16,"body":"a cliche. You know, I was like,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2173.19,"endTime":2177.87,"body":"I know everything, and you are"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2173.19,"endTime":2177.87,"body":"nothing. And you know, low and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2177.87,"endTime":2181.41,"body":"behold, a few weeks later, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2177.87,"endTime":2181.41,"body":"took a commercial job that was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2181.41,"endTime":2184.65,"body":"more money than I'd ever made on"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2181.41,"endTime":2184.65,"body":"a job in my life. And I was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2184.65,"endTime":2189.36,"body":"like, I am a superstar. But"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2184.65,"endTime":2189.36,"body":"during the meeting, I had this"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2189.36,"endTime":2194.37,"body":"sinking suspicion that this was"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2189.36,"endTime":2194.37,"body":"going to go sideways. And sure"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2194.37,"endTime":2200.34,"body":"enough, it went sideways. And I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2194.37,"endTime":2200.34,"body":"spent two years battling with"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2200.34,"endTime":2204.3,"body":"this client. And it made my life"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2200.34,"endTime":2204.3,"body":"a living hell, I was waking up"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2204.3,"endTime":2207.27,"body":"in the middle of the night and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2204.3,"endTime":2207.27,"body":"going, why, why? Why did I do"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2207.27,"endTime":2209.82,"body":"this? And my buddy was, like,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2207.27,"endTime":2209.82,"body":"you know, very politely saying,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2209.82,"endTime":2213.84,"body":"look, I told you, when you have"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2209.82,"endTime":2213.84,"body":"those feelings, and you know"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2213.84,"endTime":2216.42,"body":"something is not right, or"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2213.84,"endTime":2216.42,"body":"you're looking at a client and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2216.42,"endTime":2218.7,"body":"saying, I think they're gonna go"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2216.42,"endTime":2218.7,"body":"sideways, you got to bail."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2218.73,"endTime":2223.32,"body":"Because even if you need the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2218.73,"endTime":2223.32,"body":"money, it's not worth it. The"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2223.32,"endTime":2225.9,"body":"other mistake I made was, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2223.32,"endTime":2225.9,"body":"spent too many years shooting"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2225.9,"endTime":2229.14,"body":"other people's photographs and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2225.9,"endTime":2229.14,"body":"not my own. And again, you can"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2229.14,"endTime":2231.12,"body":"make a living and there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2229.14,"endTime":2231.12,"body":"of people doing that, that are"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2231.12,"endTime":2233.91,"body":"perfectly happy. And there's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2231.12,"endTime":2233.91,"body":"absolutely nothing wrong with"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2233.91,"endTime":2238.35,"body":"it. But I knew that I was an"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2233.91,"endTime":2238.35,"body":"imposter that underneath this"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2238.35,"endTime":2241.62,"body":"trench coat, I was somebody"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2238.35,"endTime":2241.62,"body":"completely different. And that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2241.62,"endTime":2244.65,"body":"there was probably not a place"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2241.62,"endTime":2244.65,"body":"for me in the industry, but that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2244.65,"endTime":2247.05,"body":"I still wanted to be that person"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2244.65,"endTime":2247.05,"body":"and wanted to make those"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2247.05,"endTime":2247.29,"body":"right..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2247.29,"endTime":2249.09,"body":"You were playing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2247.29,"endTime":2249.09,"body":"a role that didn't fit you."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2249.0,"endTime":2251.67,"body":"That's it. And"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2249.0,"endTime":2251.67,"body":"then once I quit, I was like,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2251.7,"endTime":2254.82,"body":"Oh, I can be this person that I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2251.7,"endTime":2254.82,"body":"actually am. And that was that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2254.82,"endTime":2258.6,"body":"was pretty illuminating. But in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2254.82,"endTime":2258.6,"body":"terms of major, other major"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2258.6,"endTime":2264.3,"body":"mistakes. I don't know I've been"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2258.6,"endTime":2264.3,"body":"I've been so fortunate and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2264.3,"endTime":2267.99,"body":"landed on my feet and had so"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2264.3,"endTime":2267.99,"body":"much help from other people."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2269.13,"endTime":2272.37,"body":"When I started in photography, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2269.13,"endTime":2272.37,"body":"was assisting. I spent years"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2272.37,"endTime":2275.55,"body":"assisting and those"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2272.37,"endTime":2275.55,"body":"photographers saved me from"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2275.55,"endTime":2279.03,"body":"myself. They taught me how to do"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2275.55,"endTime":2279.03,"body":"my taxes. They taught me how to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2279.03,"endTime":2281.52,"body":"travel. They taught me how to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2279.03,"endTime":2281.52,"body":"speak to clients. They taught me"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2281.52,"endTime":2284.37,"body":"how to speak about my own work."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2281.52,"endTime":2284.37,"body":"These folks really bent over"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2284.37,"endTime":2288.03,"body":"backwards to help me. You know,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2284.37,"endTime":2288.03,"body":"Eileen Gittins, who founded"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2288.03,"endTime":2292.08,"body":"Blurb, she's been a mentor of"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2288.03,"endTime":2292.08,"body":"mine from the second I met her,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2292.08,"endTime":2295.08,"body":"I was like, I've never met"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2292.08,"endTime":2295.08,"body":"anyone like her. She was the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2295.08,"endTime":2300.66,"body":"first like, highly powered,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2295.08,"endTime":2300.66,"body":"eccentric female entrepreneur"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2300.66,"endTime":2304.56,"body":"I'd ever met. And just like, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2300.66,"endTime":2304.56,"body":"would hang out with her. And I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2304.56,"endTime":2307.2,"body":"would be taking notes nonstop,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2304.56,"endTime":2307.2,"body":"like, Oh my god, I feel like I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2307.2,"endTime":2309.87,"body":"haven't figured out how to live"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2307.2,"endTime":2309.87,"body":"yet. And then you meet her, and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2309.87,"endTime":2312.15,"body":"you're like, wow, I'm way"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2309.87,"endTime":2312.15,"body":"behind, I better get my act"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2312.15,"endTime":2315.66,"body":"together and start getting"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2312.15,"endTime":2315.66,"body":"better. So I've been fortunate,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2315.66,"endTime":2320.13,"body":"I don't think I've made any"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2315.66,"endTime":2320.13,"body":"massive, tragic mistakes. And"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2320.13,"endTime":2322.74,"body":"some of the negative things that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2320.13,"endTime":2322.74,"body":"have happened to me over my life"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2322.74,"endTime":2325.92,"body":"have ultimately turned out to be"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2322.74,"endTime":2325.92,"body":"in some weird way positive, you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2325.92,"endTime":2329.34,"body":"know. I had a long term illness"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2325.92,"endTime":2329.34,"body":"and that made me rethink"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2329.34,"endTime":2332.22,"body":"everything. And, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2329.34,"endTime":2332.22,"body":"sort of came through that and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2332.22,"endTime":2336.3,"body":"was like, Wow, I've I'm actually"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2332.22,"endTime":2336.3,"body":"a little sort of pleased that I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2336.3,"endTime":2337.65,"body":"went through that misery."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2338.56,"endTime":2340.69,"body":"Well, it seems"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2338.56,"endTime":2340.69,"body":"like you also approach"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2340.69,"endTime":2345.79,"body":"everything wide open. You know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2340.69,"endTime":2345.79,"body":"people that you meet and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2345.79,"endTime":2349.93,"body":"experiences that you have, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2345.79,"endTime":2349.93,"body":"because you aren't afraid to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2349.93,"endTime":2355.57,"body":"pivot when you have an"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2349.93,"endTime":2355.57,"body":"opportunity to, or have a gut"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2355.57,"endTime":2360.07,"body":"feeling that you should. If"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2355.57,"endTime":2360.07,"body":"people, (I'm really talking to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2360.07,"endTime":2364.78,"body":"myself), you know, can get out"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2360.07,"endTime":2364.78,"body":"of their heads and not put so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2364.78,"endTime":2369.4,"body":"many expectations on how"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2364.78,"endTime":2369.4,"body":"something should be or what it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2369.4,"endTime":2371.59,"body":"supposed to feel like or how"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2369.4,"endTime":2371.59,"body":"it's supposed to turn out, can"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2371.59,"endTime":2376.33,"body":"just be more in the moment, less"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2371.59,"endTime":2376.33,"body":"on the Instagram and take it as"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2376.0,"endTime":2379.24,"body":"I think it's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2376.0,"endTime":2379.24,"body":"about perspective. You know, the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2376.33,"endTime":2376.99,"body":"it comes."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2379.24,"endTime":2383.11,"body":"vast majority of people in the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2379.24,"endTime":2383.11,"body":"world are looking for food,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2383.11,"endTime":2386.47,"body":"water and shelter. That's it."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2383.11,"endTime":2386.47,"body":"They don't care about"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2386.47,"endTime":2389.17,"body":"photography, and they never will"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2386.47,"endTime":2389.17,"body":"and they don't care about you or"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2389.17,"endTime":2391.54,"body":"me or a project. They just don't"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2389.17,"endTime":2391.54,"body":"they can't they're trying to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2391.54,"endTime":2395.32,"body":"survive. And I think when you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2391.54,"endTime":2395.32,"body":"realize that, it puts things in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2395.32,"endTime":2398.68,"body":"perspective, like okay, you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2395.32,"endTime":2398.68,"body":"know, is this the end of the be"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2398.68,"endTime":2400.63,"body":"all end all of the world what"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2398.68,"endTime":2400.63,"body":"I'm doing In this project?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2400.63,"endTime":2403.57,"body":"Probably not. And I need to keep"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2400.63,"endTime":2403.57,"body":"that in mind. And I think it"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2403.57,"endTime":2405.94,"body":"makes everyone around you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2403.57,"endTime":2405.94,"body":"happier and healthier when you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2405.94,"endTime":2409.57,"body":"have those perspectives. And I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2405.94,"endTime":2409.57,"body":"think at the same time we have"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2409.57,"endTime":2413.38,"body":"such an opportunity, creatives"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2409.57,"endTime":2413.38,"body":"have a responsibility in society"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2413.38,"endTime":2417.34,"body":"to play the most creative card"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2413.38,"endTime":2417.34,"body":"they can at all times, because"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2417.34,"endTime":2421.45,"body":"society is waiting for us to do"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2417.34,"endTime":2421.45,"body":"so. They are waiting for"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2421.45,"endTime":2424.72,"body":"creatives to show them an"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2421.45,"endTime":2424.72,"body":"alternative path about how to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2424.72,"endTime":2427.21,"body":"see the world and how to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2424.72,"endTime":2427.21,"body":"navigate the world. That is a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2427.21,"endTime":2431.14,"body":"huge responsibility. And if"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2427.21,"endTime":2431.14,"body":"you're conforming, and you're"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2431.14,"endTime":2433.84,"body":"not the person who you know you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2431.14,"endTime":2433.84,"body":"are, because you're conforming"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2433.84,"endTime":2437.02,"body":"to an industry standard, that's"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2433.84,"endTime":2437.02,"body":"not helping anyone. And it may"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2437.02,"endTime":2440.02,"body":"be a great short play, but it"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2437.02,"endTime":2440.02,"body":"won't work in the long run. So"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2440.53,"endTime":2444.82,"body":"it's hard. And I think when you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2440.53,"endTime":2444.82,"body":"distance yourself, you know, for"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2444.82,"endTime":2448.48,"body":"me, it was interesting when I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2444.82,"endTime":2448.48,"body":"quit photography, and even today"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2448.48,"endTime":2450.88,"body":"when people ask me, if I'm at a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2448.48,"endTime":2450.88,"body":"party and people say what do you"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2450.88,"endTime":2452.8,"body":"do? And I go, I work for a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2450.88,"endTime":2452.8,"body":"publishing platform, I work for"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2452.8,"endTime":2455.71,"body":"a printing..., you know I work"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2452.8,"endTime":2455.71,"body":"for Blurb. And I have friends"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2455.71,"endTime":2458.08,"body":"that will say, No, No, No, No,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2455.71,"endTime":2458.08,"body":"No, he doesn't. He's a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2458.08,"endTime":2460.96,"body":"photographer. And I'm like, I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2458.08,"endTime":2460.96,"body":"haven't been a photographer in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2460.96,"endTime":2464.32,"body":"over a decade, I will never be a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2460.96,"endTime":2464.32,"body":"photographer again. It's not"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2464.32,"endTime":2468.1,"body":"what I identify as because it"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2464.32,"endTime":2468.1,"body":"doesn't really benefit me or"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2468.1,"endTime":2472.21,"body":"anyone else. Right? It's just it"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2468.1,"endTime":2472.21,"body":"is what it is. And so I love the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2472.21,"endTime":2474.73,"body":"option and the ability to take a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2472.21,"endTime":2474.73,"body":"step back and look at things in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2475.3,"endTime":2480.79,"body":"a broader space. Like photo"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2475.3,"endTime":2480.79,"body":"books to me are their testimony,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2480.79,"endTime":2484.87,"body":"their history, they're going to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2480.79,"endTime":2484.87,"body":"gain power. The longer we go"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2484.87,"endTime":2487.75,"body":"into history, the further we go,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2484.87,"endTime":2487.75,"body":"the better the books that you're"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2487.75,"endTime":2489.91,"body":"printing today are going to be"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2487.75,"endTime":2489.91,"body":"they're going to be more"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2489.91,"endTime":2494.14,"body":"impactful and more relevant to"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2489.91,"endTime":2494.14,"body":"me, the further we go. And that"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2494.14,"endTime":2497.5,"body":"is an interesting pursuit and"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2494.14,"endTime":2497.5,"body":"the idea of visual"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2498.1,"endTime":2501.64,"body":"communications in our species"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2498.1,"endTime":2501.64,"body":"going back to cave paintings,"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2501.64,"endTime":2504.97,"body":"this is the same story we've"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2501.64,"endTime":2504.97,"body":"been telling since then. And so"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2504.97,"endTime":2507.46,"body":"it is an integral part of who we"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2504.97,"endTime":2507.46,"body":"are and what we're doing as a"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2507.46,"endTime":2511.48,"body":"species. But we have to keep it"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2507.46,"endTime":2511.48,"body":"in perspective that it's not the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2511.48,"endTime":2512.35,"body":"be all end all."},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2518.0,"endTime":2521.96,"body":"My brother and I are completely"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2518.0,"endTime":2521.96,"body":"twisted. And my growing up in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2521.96,"endTime":2524.57,"body":"Texas, my brother and I would be"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2521.96,"endTime":2524.57,"body":"like, how long can you go"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2524.57,"endTime":2528.23,"body":"without taking a shower? I'd be"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2524.57,"endTime":2528.23,"body":"like, I can go a little bit"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2528.23,"endTime":2532.64,"body":"longer than you. And then we had"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2528.23,"endTime":2532.64,"body":"breakdowns like Does swimming in"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2532.64,"endTime":2533.36,"body":"a lake count?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2534.8,"endTime":2535.52,"body":"Right?!?"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2537.7,"endTime":2539.65,"body":"What if I just"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2537.7,"endTime":2539.65,"body":"shaved my head then maybe I"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2539.65,"endTime":2543.28,"body":"don't need to take a shower? And"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2539.65,"endTime":2543.28,"body":"so there were no limits and my"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2543.28,"endTime":2545.83,"body":"brother and I pushed the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2543.28,"endTime":2545.83,"body":"boundaries forever. And so the"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2545.83,"endTime":2548.65,"body":"van is like a is a five star"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2545.83,"endTime":2548.65,"body":"resort compared to what my"},{"speaker":"Daniel Milnor","startTime":2548.65,"endTime":2549.55,"body":"brother and I were doing."}]}