{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":6.81,"endTime":8.7,"body":"Welcome to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":6.81,"endTime":8.7,"body":"Perfect Bound. I'm Jennifer"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":8.73,"endTime":11.46,"body":"Yoffy, the founder and publisher"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":8.73,"endTime":11.46,"body":"of Yoffy Press in Atlanta,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":11.46,"endTime":14.85,"body":"Georgia. This is a podcast where"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":11.46,"endTime":14.85,"body":"we talk to artists about their"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":14.85,"endTime":18.21,"body":"journey, how they got where they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":14.85,"endTime":18.21,"body":"are, what right and wrong turns"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":18.21,"endTime":20.58,"body":"they made along the way, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":18.21,"endTime":20.58,"body":"where they're heading next."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":27.8,"endTime":31.4,"body":"Aaron Schuman is an American"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":27.8,"endTime":31.4,"body":"photographer, writer, editor,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":31.43,"endTime":35.3,"body":"educator and curator based in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":31.43,"endTime":35.3,"body":"the United Kingdom. He received"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":35.3,"endTime":37.82,"body":"a BFA in photography and art"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":35.3,"endTime":37.82,"body":"history from New York"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":37.82,"endTime":41.78,"body":"University's Tisch School of the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":37.82,"endTime":41.78,"body":"Arts in 1999, and an MA in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":41.78,"endTime":44.63,"body":"humanities and cultural studies"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":41.78,"endTime":44.63,"body":"from the London consortium in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":44.63,"endTime":48.68,"body":"2003. His work has been"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":44.63,"endTime":48.68,"body":"exhibited internationally and is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":48.68,"endTime":52.22,"body":"held in many public and private"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":48.68,"endTime":52.22,"body":"collections. He is the author of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":52.22,"endTime":55.43,"body":"two critically acclaimed"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":52.22,"endTime":55.43,"body":"monographs. Slant, published by"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":55.43,"endTime":60.53,"body":"Mack in 2019, and Folk,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":55.43,"endTime":60.53,"body":"published by NB books in 2016."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":60.98,"endTime":64.04,"body":"Both books were widely cited by"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":60.98,"endTime":64.04,"body":"photographers, critics and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":64.04,"endTime":67.16,"body":"publications as one of the best"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":64.04,"endTime":67.16,"body":"photo books in their respective"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":67.16,"endTime":71.24,"body":"years. In addition to his own"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":67.16,"endTime":71.24,"body":"photographic work, Schuman has"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":71.24,"endTime":74.75,"body":"contributed essays, interviews"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":71.24,"endTime":74.75,"body":"and texts to many books. And he"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":74.75,"endTime":77.84,"body":"also regularly contributes to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":74.75,"endTime":77.84,"body":"journals and magazines such as"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":77.84,"endTime":82.13,"body":"Aperture, Foam, Frieze, Hot"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":77.84,"endTime":82.13,"body":"Shoe, Magnum online, the British"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":82.13,"endTime":85.97,"body":"Journal of Photography, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":82.13,"endTime":85.97,"body":"more. Additionally, Schuman has"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":85.97,"endTime":88.37,"body":"curated several major"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":85.97,"endTime":88.37,"body":"international festivals and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":88.37,"endTime":91.37,"body":"exhibitions and was the founder"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":88.37,"endTime":91.37,"body":"and editor of the online"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":91.37,"endTime":96.5,"body":"photography journal SeeSaw"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":91.37,"endTime":96.5,"body":"Magazine from 2004 to 2014. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":96.5,"endTime":100.55,"body":"since 2017, has been program"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":96.5,"endTime":100.55,"body":"leader of the Master's in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":100.55,"endTime":103.28,"body":"photography program at the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":100.55,"endTime":103.28,"body":"University of West England."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":103.7,"endTime":106.55,"body":"Please welcome Aaron Schuman to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":103.7,"endTime":106.55,"body":"the podcast."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":110.05,"endTime":113.83,"body":"I really appreciate you coming"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":110.05,"endTime":113.83,"body":"on. And I'm excited to talk to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":113.83,"endTime":118.42,"body":"you. Slant was definitely one of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":113.83,"endTime":118.42,"body":"my favorite books of the last"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":118.42,"endTime":123.46,"body":"couple years. Such an awesome"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":118.42,"endTime":123.46,"body":"surprise. Yeah, I actually"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":123.46,"endTime":126.22,"body":"didn't know anything about it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":123.46,"endTime":126.22,"body":"when I bought it. It was just"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":126.22,"endTime":130.69,"body":"kind of like, year end, I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":126.22,"endTime":130.69,"body":"reading all the best books and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":130.69,"endTime":133.87,"body":"it kept coming up. And so I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":130.69,"endTime":133.87,"body":"bought a few of the ones that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":133.87,"endTime":136.9,"body":"were repetitive that way and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":133.87,"endTime":136.9,"body":"didn't know anything about it."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":137.23,"endTime":139.48,"body":"And then I looked it up. And you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":137.23,"endTime":139.48,"body":"know, when I opened it, I was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":139.48,"endTime":140.92,"body":"like, oh yeah, that's good."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":143.35,"endTime":144.85,"body":"I really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":143.35,"endTime":144.85,"body":"appreciate that. Thanks."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":144.88,"endTime":146.23,"body":"Yeah , it was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":144.88,"endTime":146.23,"body":"awesome."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":146.26,"endTime":146.8,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":147.61,"endTime":150.43,"body":"So I have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":147.61,"endTime":150.43,"body":"questions and I'll just jump in."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":150.43,"endTime":150.85,"body":"Is that good?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":150.88,"endTime":151.93,"body":"Yeah, go for it."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":150.88,"endTime":151.93,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":152.05,"endTime":155.77,"body":"Okay, so you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":152.05,"endTime":155.77,"body":"started out working in a pretty"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":155.8,"endTime":159.07,"body":"traditional straightforward"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":155.8,"endTime":159.07,"body":"black and white documentary"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":159.1,"endTime":162.94,"body":"style. And then your work has"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":159.1,"endTime":162.94,"body":"seemed to shift to embrace more"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":162.94,"endTime":170.41,"body":"of a conceptual slant, that was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":162.94,"endTime":170.41,"body":"not an intended part. That's a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":170.41,"endTime":174.79,"body":"bit of a critique of documentary"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":170.41,"endTime":174.79,"body":"while still working to say"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":174.79,"endTime":178.84,"body":"something about the world or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":174.79,"endTime":178.84,"body":"making sense of it. And it feels"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":178.84,"endTime":182.14,"body":"like this is a larger shift"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":178.84,"endTime":182.14,"body":"that's happening, kind of as"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":182.14,"endTime":184.63,"body":"people are becoming more"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":182.14,"endTime":184.63,"body":"photographers are becoming more"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":184.63,"endTime":189.52,"body":"conscious of the pitfalls, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":184.63,"endTime":189.52,"body":"the inherent biases and biasses"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":189.88,"endTime":193.84,"body":"in observational photography."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":189.88,"endTime":193.84,"body":"And I was curious where you came"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":193.84,"endTime":198.4,"body":"down on this issue, you know, if"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":193.84,"endTime":198.4,"body":"this is something that you think"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":198.4,"endTime":201.97,"body":"about, or it's just been kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":198.4,"endTime":201.97,"body":"a natural evolution for you?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":202.23,"endTime":204.42,"body":"I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":202.23,"endTime":204.42,"body":"something I definitely think"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":204.42,"endTime":207.18,"body":"about quite often. So when I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":204.42,"endTime":207.18,"body":"started out making photographs,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":207.18,"endTime":210.6,"body":"like, you know, as a teenager,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":207.18,"endTime":210.6,"body":"and then into kind of college, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":210.6,"endTime":216.21,"body":"was pretty, like committed to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":210.6,"endTime":216.21,"body":"mid 20th century photography,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":216.21,"endTime":219.63,"body":"and a lot of ways like, I was"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":216.21,"endTime":219.63,"body":"really interested in that kind"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":219.63,"endTime":224.94,"body":"of tradition, and that approach,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":219.63,"endTime":224.94,"body":"and aspire to, you know, follow"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":224.94,"endTime":227.55,"body":"in the footsteps of like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":224.94,"endTime":227.55,"body":"photographers, and Walker Evans,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":227.55,"endTime":230.19,"body":"and, you know, and that kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":227.55,"endTime":230.19,"body":"whole real documentary"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":230.19,"endTime":234.09,"body":"tradition. And it was, if I'm"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":230.19,"endTime":234.09,"body":"honest, like in college I was"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":234.09,"endTime":238.29,"body":"pretty resistant to kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":234.09,"endTime":238.29,"body":"contemporary developments. And,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":238.35,"endTime":240.81,"body":"of course, like I was in college"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":238.35,"endTime":240.81,"body":"during the 90s. So it was a lot"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":240.81,"endTime":243.48,"body":"of it was around kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":240.81,"endTime":243.48,"body":"constructed imagery, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":243.48,"endTime":247.95,"body":"performative imagery, and then"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":243.48,"endTime":247.95,"body":"kind of quote unquote, snapshot"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":247.95,"endTime":252.15,"body":"aesthetic. So, you know, and I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":247.95,"endTime":252.15,"body":"was, like, really committed to,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":252.72,"endTime":256.8,"body":"you know, black and white Tri-X,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":252.72,"endTime":256.8,"body":"you know, wanting to really kind"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":256.8,"endTime":260.01,"body":"of live the life of, I don't"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":256.8,"endTime":260.01,"body":"know, W. Eugene Smith, or, like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":260.01,"endTime":265.77,"body":"I said, Walker Evans, or anybody"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":260.01,"endTime":265.77,"body":"like that. And, um, and so I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":265.77,"endTime":269.16,"body":"think that was, like, a real"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":265.77,"endTime":269.16,"body":"stubbornness on my part during"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":269.16,"endTime":272.07,"body":"that period. And then after"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":269.16,"endTime":272.07,"body":"college, when I started to kind"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":272.07,"endTime":275.25,"body":"of explore a bit more about the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":272.07,"endTime":275.25,"body":"world of photography now and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":275.25,"endTime":277.83,"body":"contemporary photography, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":275.25,"endTime":277.83,"body":"through a few experiences I had"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":277.83,"endTime":281.34,"body":"then, it really started to kind"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":277.83,"endTime":281.34,"body":"of open up to me and in other"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":281.34,"endTime":284.04,"body":"ways, and I kind of started to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":281.34,"endTime":284.04,"body":"come to terms with the fact that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":284.04,"endTime":288.72,"body":"it wasn't 1958 and the world had"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":284.04,"endTime":288.72,"body":"changed quite dramatically and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":288.72,"endTime":293.7,"body":"photography changed quite"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":288.72,"endTime":293.7,"body":"dramatically. And so, so yeah,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":293.7,"endTime":297.0,"body":"so I started investigating how"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":293.7,"endTime":297.0,"body":"photographers kind of engage"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":297.0,"endTime":301.59,"body":"with a documentary aesthetic,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":297.0,"endTime":301.59,"body":"but use it to more, I don't"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":301.59,"endTime":305.55,"body":"know, subjective ends or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":301.59,"endTime":305.55,"body":"personal ends, or critical ends."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":306.78,"endTime":310.59,"body":"And yeah, I started"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":306.78,"endTime":310.59,"body":"investigating that kind of area."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":310.59,"endTime":315.96,"body":"So the other thing is that I'm"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":310.59,"endTime":315.96,"body":"kind of, in terms of a reader, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":315.96,"endTime":321.42,"body":"really love nonfiction like long"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":315.96,"endTime":321.42,"body":"form nonfiction, and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":321.45,"endTime":324.96,"body":"long form essays and that type"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":321.45,"endTime":324.96,"body":"of work. So I started thinking"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":324.96,"endTime":329.85,"body":"about how photography could"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":324.96,"endTime":329.85,"body":"engage with the world in a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":329.85,"endTime":333.99,"body":"similar way. And I really like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":329.85,"endTime":333.99,"body":"I kind of like the term"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":334.38,"endTime":337.5,"body":"nonfiction, because it's not"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":334.38,"endTime":337.5,"body":"saying it's fact, it's just"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":338.16,"endTime":340.71,"body":"fiction. So it kind of sits on"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":338.16,"endTime":340.71,"body":"that kind of ambiguous kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":340.71,"endTime":345.81,"body":"border, where somebody can kind"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":340.71,"endTime":345.81,"body":"of tell a story through, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":345.81,"endTime":348.24,"body":"know, through kind of a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":345.81,"endTime":348.24,"body":"narrative and through their own"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":348.24,"endTime":351.03,"body":"personal kind of experience. And"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":348.24,"endTime":351.03,"body":"it's kind of it's understood by"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":351.03,"endTime":354.33,"body":"the reader that this is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":351.03,"endTime":354.33,"body":"something that's, that's both"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":354.36,"endTime":359.34,"body":"based on, you know, reality and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":354.36,"endTime":359.34,"body":"factual kind of encounters and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":359.37,"endTime":362.07,"body":"engagement with the world, but"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":359.37,"endTime":362.07,"body":"also is being kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":362.37,"endTime":366.75,"body":"interpreted through the words or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":362.37,"endTime":366.75,"body":"the lens of the person who's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":366.75,"endTime":369.27,"body":"kind of presenting it. So, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":369.66,"endTime":371.52,"body":"Yeah, because"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":369.66,"endTime":371.52,"body":"even if, you know, when you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":371.52,"endTime":375.9,"body":"reading nonfiction, I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":371.52,"endTime":375.9,"body":"still the perspective of the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":376.02,"endTime":382.65,"body":"writer. Yeah. And even if they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":376.02,"endTime":382.65,"body":"are attempting to portray two"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":382.65,"endTime":387.75,"body":"sides of a thing or multiple"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":382.65,"endTime":387.75,"body":"viewpoints, it's still their"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":388.71,"endTime":394.89,"body":"ethnicity and their entry point"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":388.71,"endTime":394.89,"body":"into the subject matter is going"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":394.89,"endTime":398.61,"body":"to make a difference in the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":394.89,"endTime":398.61,"body":"story."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":398.729,"endTime":401.039,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":398.729,"endTime":401.039,"body":"Yeah. And I think it's also that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":401.039,"endTime":403.289,"body":"idea of it kind of being a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":401.039,"endTime":403.289,"body":"narrative and a journey that you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":403.289,"endTime":404.699,"body":"go on with that person."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":404.0,"endTime":407.99,"body":"It is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":404.0,"endTime":407.99,"body":"exploratory..."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":408.02,"endTime":409.82,"body":"Yeah, they kind"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":408.02,"endTime":409.82,"body":"of take you by the hand and take"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":409.82,"endTime":411.83,"body":"you on this journey. And you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":409.82,"endTime":411.83,"body":"know, that this journey is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":411.83,"endTime":415.19,"body":"something that's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":411.83,"endTime":415.19,"body":"happening out there in the real"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":415.19,"endTime":419.66,"body":"world, but it's also being kind"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":415.19,"endTime":419.66,"body":"of filtered through whoever it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":419.66,"endTime":422.45,"body":"is, that's kind of guiding you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":419.66,"endTime":422.45,"body":"through that, that experience."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":422.45,"endTime":425.39,"body":"And that was something that was"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":422.45,"endTime":425.39,"body":"really exciting for me, it was"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":425.39,"endTime":428.84,"body":"an exciting way for me to think"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":425.39,"endTime":428.84,"body":"about photography and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":428.84,"endTime":432.11,"body":"photographic practice, and some"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":428.84,"endTime":432.11,"body":"of my favorite photographers. I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":432.11,"endTime":434.96,"body":"started kind of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":432.11,"endTime":434.96,"body":"finding those kind of famous"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":434.96,"endTime":439.88,"body":"quotes by, by my heroes, who I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":434.96,"endTime":439.88,"body":"had always kind of considered as"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":440.63,"endTime":443.21,"body":"very traditional documentary"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":440.63,"endTime":443.21,"body":"photographers, talking about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":443.21,"endTime":448.97,"body":"how, you know, documentary is an"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":443.21,"endTime":448.97,"body":"aesthetic, and not a fact. And I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":448.97,"endTime":452.36,"body":"don't know, Winogrand's kind of,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":448.97,"endTime":452.36,"body":"you know, photographs show what"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":452.36,"endTime":455.06,"body":"the world looks like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":452.36,"endTime":455.06,"body":"photographed kind of those kinds"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":455.06,"endTime":458.0,"body":"of quotes that that started"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":455.06,"endTime":458.0,"body":"getting me really interested in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":458.0,"endTime":462.44,"body":"that. And also, just as a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":458.0,"endTime":462.44,"body":"viewer, and as a reader of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":462.74,"endTime":465.8,"body":"photography and photo books, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":462.74,"endTime":465.8,"body":"really liked that engagement as"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":465.8,"endTime":469.28,"body":"well,  I liked feeling like I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":465.8,"endTime":469.28,"body":"was being kind of brought along"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":469.28,"endTime":472.28,"body":"on this journey by these people."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":469.28,"endTime":472.28,"body":"And but they were leaving it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":472.82,"endTime":475.94,"body":"reasonably open ended and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":472.82,"endTime":475.94,"body":"ambiguous. And sometimes there"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":475.94,"endTime":480.02,"body":"was a kind of tongue in cheek,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":475.94,"endTime":480.02,"body":"kind of wink to you as a reader."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":480.02,"endTime":482.48,"body":"And sometimes you don't, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":480.02,"endTime":482.48,"body":"so there was a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":482.48,"endTime":486.59,"body":"fluidity kind of going on, in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":482.48,"endTime":486.59,"body":"that relationship between the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":486.59,"endTime":490.94,"body":"photographer and myself. And so,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":486.59,"endTime":490.94,"body":"yeah, I started to think about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":490.94,"endTime":493.43,"body":"ways that I might be able to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":490.94,"endTime":493.43,"body":"kind of incorporate that into my"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":493.43,"endTime":497.54,"body":"own practice, and loosen it up a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":493.43,"endTime":497.54,"body":"bit, and not not kind of try to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":498.35,"endTime":501.38,"body":"document the world. And of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":498.35,"endTime":501.38,"body":"course, you know, also, all of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":501.38,"endTime":504.86,"body":"this is happening at the same"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":501.38,"endTime":504.86,"body":"time that that, you know, social"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":504.86,"endTime":507.29,"body":"media and Instagram, and all of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":504.86,"endTime":507.29,"body":"these things are happening as"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":507.29,"endTime":511.37,"body":"well. So, so also that idea of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":507.29,"endTime":511.37,"body":"kind of showing people something"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":511.37,"endTime":514.13,"body":"they've never seen before,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":511.37,"endTime":514.13,"body":"completely went out the window,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":514.13,"endTime":517.16,"body":"because you can, yeah, you can"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":514.13,"endTime":517.16,"body":"type anything into Google image"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":517.16,"endTime":520.97,"body":"or Instagram and see a million"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":517.16,"endTime":520.97,"body":"pictures of that thing. So so"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":520.97,"endTime":525.08,"body":"that also really made it a bit"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":520.97,"endTime":525.08,"body":"of a challenge, and a kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":525.08,"endTime":529.28,"body":"fun challenge to think about how"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":525.08,"endTime":529.28,"body":"you, yeah, how you engage with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":529.28,"endTime":532.7,"body":"the world beyond just trying to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":529.28,"endTime":532.7,"body":"discover something, quote,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":532.7,"endTime":534.41,"body":"unquote, new if you know what I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":532.7,"endTime":534.41,"body":"mean."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":534.9,"endTime":539.04,"body":"Yeah, it's like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":534.9,"endTime":539.04,"body":"the concept can be new, the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":539.04,"endTime":543.06,"body":"imagery is probably not. Its"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":539.04,"endTime":543.06,"body":"impossible to create complete"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":543.06,"endTime":543.9,"body":"uniqueness."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":543.96,"endTime":546.21,"body":"Yeah. Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":543.96,"endTime":546.21,"body":"think so. And I think, you know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":546.21,"endTime":550.53,"body":"photography also has, I don't"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":546.21,"endTime":550.53,"body":"know, I always think of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":550.62,"endTime":552.75,"body":"photography is like a language,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":550.62,"endTime":552.75,"body":"it has all of these different"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":552.75,"endTime":558.9,"body":"dialects and, and accents and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":552.75,"endTime":558.9,"body":"ways in which people kind of use"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":558.9,"endTime":562.53,"body":"that language. So the words"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":558.9,"endTime":562.53,"body":"might be the same, you know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":562.53,"endTime":564.54,"body":"what I mean, but, but the way"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":562.53,"endTime":564.54,"body":"that they're kind of being"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":564.54,"endTime":570.57,"body":"presented or, or being kind of,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":564.54,"endTime":570.57,"body":"heard by the viewer, or, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":570.57,"endTime":575.1,"body":"know, read by the viewer kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":570.57,"endTime":575.1,"body":"changes, depending on how that's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":575.1,"endTime":579.12,"body":"being used. And I like that idea"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":575.1,"endTime":579.12,"body":"of kind of being able to adopt"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":579.12,"endTime":583.65,"body":"different kind of ways of, of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":579.12,"endTime":583.65,"body":"saying what I want to say. So"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":583.65,"endTime":585.93,"body":"kind of speaking in these"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":583.65,"endTime":585.93,"body":"different dialects, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":585.93,"endTime":590.91,"body":"sometimes, I might use, like a,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":585.93,"endTime":590.91,"body":"like a traditional documentary"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":590.97,"endTime":594.21,"body":"dialect, but other times, it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":590.97,"endTime":594.21,"body":"might use a vernacular, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":594.21,"endTime":597.48,"body":"know, approach or, I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":594.21,"endTime":597.48,"body":"you know, you kind of find all"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":597.48,"endTime":599.97,"body":"of these different ways in which"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":597.48,"endTime":599.97,"body":"your voice can kind of come out."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":600.48,"endTime":601.77,"body":"Right, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":600.48,"endTime":601.77,"body":"there's more freedom."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":601.8,"endTime":603.51,"body":"Yeah, there's a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":601.8,"endTime":603.51,"body":"lot, there's a lot more freedom"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":603.51,"endTime":606.93,"body":"in that. And just as a, as a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":603.51,"endTime":606.93,"body":"creative person, as a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":606.93,"endTime":610.35,"body":"photographer, as an artist,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":606.93,"endTime":610.35,"body":"like, that makes it really fun"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":610.35,"endTime":612.75,"body":"as well, because all of a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":610.35,"endTime":612.75,"body":"sudden, it's not just about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":612.75,"endTime":613.71,"body":"what's in the frame."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":615.509,"endTime":617.489,"body":"Right? Kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":615.509,"endTime":617.489,"body":"right, you're not boxed in."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":617.51,"endTime":619.73,"body":"Yeah, it's not"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":617.51,"endTime":619.73,"body":"about the content. I mean, it is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":619.73,"endTime":621.71,"body":"about the content, but it's not"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":619.73,"endTime":621.71,"body":"only about the content, it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":621.71,"endTime":624.59,"body":"starts to become about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":621.71,"endTime":624.59,"body":"everything else, all of the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":624.59,"endTime":627.02,"body":"other decisions you're making in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":624.59,"endTime":627.02,"body":"terms of composition, in terms"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":627.02,"endTime":633.8,"body":"of, you know, exposure, depth of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":627.02,"endTime":633.8,"body":"fields, you know, framing what,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":633.8,"endTime":637.94,"body":"what images you put that one"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":633.8,"endTime":637.94,"body":"next to and all of that sort of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":637.94,"endTime":641.3,"body":"thing. So there's that whole"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":637.94,"endTime":641.3,"body":"puzzle, that whole game becomes"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":641.33,"endTime":643.91,"body":"a lot more fun and interesting."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":641.33,"endTime":643.91,"body":"At that point. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":644.03,"endTime":647.48,"body":"So kind of a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":644.03,"endTime":647.48,"body":"segue talking about putting"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":647.48,"endTime":652.61,"body":"images together, how important"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":647.48,"endTime":652.61,"body":"is the book to your practice? Do"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":652.61,"endTime":655.64,"body":"you imagine your major projects"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":652.61,"endTime":655.64,"body":"as books while you're developing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":655.64,"endTime":658.91,"body":"them? Or do you make the work"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":655.64,"endTime":658.91,"body":"and determine the ideal format,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":658.94,"endTime":659.54,"body":"after?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":660.08,"endTime":662.54,"body":"I'd say, I'd say"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":660.08,"endTime":662.54,"body":"the book is really important to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":662.54,"endTime":669.68,"body":"me, I feel like the relationship"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":662.54,"endTime":669.68,"body":"that can be built between images"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":669.68,"endTime":674.0,"body":"and between different material,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":669.68,"endTime":674.0,"body":"you know, I mean, both of the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":674.0,"endTime":676.19,"body":"books that I've made, so far,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":674.0,"endTime":676.19,"body":"kind of incorporate both my own"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":676.19,"endTime":679.73,"body":"photographs, but also kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":676.19,"endTime":679.73,"body":"like ephemera, or objects or,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":680.18,"endTime":685.67,"body":"you know, clippings, that sort"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":680.18,"endTime":685.67,"body":"of thing. So I, I like that idea"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":685.67,"endTime":689.57,"body":"of building relationships, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":685.67,"endTime":689.57,"body":"creating this kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":690.05,"endTime":692.57,"body":"conversation that's going on"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":690.05,"endTime":692.57,"body":"between lots and lots of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":692.57,"endTime":695.72,"body":"different things. And the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":692.57,"endTime":695.72,"body":"individual images are really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":695.72,"endTime":698.9,"body":"important to me, like I want"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":695.72,"endTime":698.9,"body":"every one of those images to, to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":698.9,"endTime":703.76,"body":"be able to exist on its own,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":698.9,"endTime":703.76,"body":"independently of the rest. So"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":703.79,"endTime":706.31,"body":"that's part of my editing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":703.79,"endTime":706.31,"body":"process is a question of, like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":706.31,"endTime":712.04,"body":"is this picture a valid,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":706.31,"endTime":712.04,"body":"interesting, you know, image? Or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":712.04,"endTime":715.31,"body":"is it only that because of the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":712.04,"endTime":715.31,"body":"other ones that are around it?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":715.37,"endTime":718.49,"body":"And, you know, I really kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":715.37,"endTime":718.49,"body":"question those things. But I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":718.49,"endTime":722.9,"body":"also, once I have that kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":718.49,"endTime":722.9,"body":"confirmation that each picture"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":722.93,"endTime":727.64,"body":"feels right to me, then I also"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":722.93,"endTime":727.64,"body":"realize that they grow like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":727.73,"endTime":732.35,"body":"exponentially as soon as they're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":727.73,"endTime":732.35,"body":"mixed together in in various"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":732.35,"endTime":735.14,"body":"ways, some some ways in which"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":732.35,"endTime":735.14,"body":"are really successful, other"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":735.14,"endTime":738.02,"body":"ways don't work. And so that's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":735.14,"endTime":738.02,"body":"how the editing process comes"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":738.02,"endTime":741.14,"body":"into play. And so the book, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":738.02,"endTime":741.14,"body":"know, when I started just"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":741.17,"endTime":746.0,"body":"discovering the book, and how"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":741.17,"endTime":746.0,"body":"versatile that could be, and how"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":746.33,"endTime":748.82,"body":"interesting that could make"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":746.33,"endTime":748.82,"body":"images that it didn't have to be"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":748.82,"endTime":754.52,"body":"just a catalogue of individual"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":748.82,"endTime":754.52,"body":"works, but that it could have"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":754.52,"endTime":758.48,"body":"all of this texture and these"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":754.52,"endTime":758.48,"body":"kind of meta narratives and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":758.51,"endTime":762.8,"body":"like, you know, underlying"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":758.51,"endTime":762.8,"body":"motifs that could come back and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":762.8,"endTime":769.37,"body":"forth. And I don't know that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":762.8,"endTime":769.37,"body":"whole relationship when you put"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":769.37,"endTime":772.31,"body":"two pictures next to each other,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":769.37,"endTime":772.31,"body":"and then I don't know, take one"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":772.31,"endTime":774.86,"body":"away and put another one next to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":772.31,"endTime":774.86,"body":"it, the picture that stays"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":774.86,"endTime":777.29,"body":"there, all of a sudden changes"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":774.86,"endTime":777.29,"body":"in really interesting ways. So."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":778.28,"endTime":781.79,"body":"So that really expanded my"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":778.28,"endTime":781.79,"body":"excitement for the photographic"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":781.82,"endTime":786.56,"body":"medium as well, because I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":781.82,"endTime":786.56,"body":"started to understand that yes,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":786.8,"endTime":790.52,"body":"an individual photograph could"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":786.8,"endTime":790.52,"body":"be a singular work of art, but"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":790.52,"endTime":795.44,"body":"so could a set of 40"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":790.52,"endTime":795.44,"body":"photographs. And that could be a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":795.5,"endTime":799.55,"body":"individual single piece. If you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":795.5,"endTime":799.55,"body":"know what I mean, a work of art."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":800.6,"endTime":802.79,"body":"And that that was exciting for"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":800.6,"endTime":802.79,"body":"me. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":802.889,"endTime":805.499,"body":"Yeah. When you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":802.889,"endTime":805.499,"body":"were working on your book"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":805.499,"endTime":809.459,"body":"projects, did you What were you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":805.499,"endTime":809.459,"body":"doing the edit and sequence and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":809.519,"endTime":813.539,"body":"layout mostly on your own? Or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":809.519,"endTime":813.539,"body":"were you collaborating with the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":813.539,"endTime":815.249,"body":"designer or with the publisher?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":815.36,"endTime":821.87,"body":"For both of them"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":815.36,"endTime":821.87,"body":"I was pretty independent. Like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":821.9,"endTime":826.52,"body":"up until, like, 85% of the way"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":821.9,"endTime":826.52,"body":"if you know what I mean. So I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":826.52,"endTime":830.27,"body":"kind of, you know, so I kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":826.52,"endTime":830.27,"body":"I, I spent a lot of time trying"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":830.27,"endTime":833.81,"body":"to conceive of how this would"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":830.27,"endTime":833.81,"body":"work. Maybe I'm a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":833.81,"endTime":835.76,"body":"a control freak in that sense"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":833.81,"endTime":835.76,"body":"that I didn't even want to show"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":835.76,"endTime":839.57,"body":"it to the publishers or the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":835.76,"endTime":839.57,"body":"designers until I felt like, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":839.57,"endTime":844.91,"body":"was almost there, if you know"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":839.57,"endTime":844.91,"body":"what I mean. But then you reach"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":844.91,"endTime":846.74,"body":"a certain point where you just"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":844.91,"endTime":846.74,"body":"can't see the wood for the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":846.74,"endTime":850.76,"body":"trees. And you kind of feel"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":846.74,"endTime":850.76,"body":"like, maybe there is another way"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":850.76,"endTime":855.89,"body":"to do this, or maybe you see a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":850.76,"endTime":855.89,"body":"kind of a chink in the fence and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":855.89,"endTime":858.92,"body":"you think like, I wish somebody"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":855.89,"endTime":858.92,"body":"else would fix this for me, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":858.92,"endTime":863.24,"body":"know, and so yeah, so then at"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":858.92,"endTime":863.24,"body":"that point, then I then I kind"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":863.24,"endTime":866.12,"body":"of started speaking with the,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":863.24,"endTime":866.12,"body":"you know, the designers and the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":866.12,"endTime":870.02,"body":"publishers and asking their kind"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":866.12,"endTime":870.02,"body":"of input on that kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":870.02,"endTime":873.44,"body":"So I can't take all the credit"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":870.02,"endTime":873.44,"body":"and there are definitely kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":873.47,"endTime":876.74,"body":"decisions which are generally"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":873.47,"endTime":876.74,"body":"kind of seemingly minor but"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":876.74,"endTime":881.63,"body":"actually incredibly important,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":876.74,"endTime":881.63,"body":"that I got help with in the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":881.63,"endTime":887.21,"body":"sense of just things like scale,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":881.63,"endTime":887.21,"body":"or layout or design or, or even"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":887.21,"endTime":890.21,"body":"just the object in its own"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":887.21,"endTime":890.21,"body":"right, because, you know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":890.72,"endTime":893.21,"body":"publishers and designers have"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":890.72,"endTime":893.21,"body":"all of this incredible knowledge"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":893.21,"endTime":897.83,"body":"about papers and materials and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":893.21,"endTime":897.83,"body":"printing processes and cover"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":897.83,"endTime":901.16,"body":"materials and textures and you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":897.83,"endTime":901.16,"body":"know, all of the things that you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":901.16,"endTime":903.8,"body":"don't even think about when"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":901.16,"endTime":903.8,"body":"you're just shuffling work"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":903.8,"endTime":907.7,"body":"prints around on a table. Right?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":903.8,"endTime":907.7,"body":"And so that, that that was"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":907.73,"endTime":910.79,"body":"incredibly useful and helpful"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":907.73,"endTime":910.79,"body":"thing to kind of get some input"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":910.79,"endTime":916.85,"body":"on. But, you know, the sequence"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":910.79,"endTime":916.85,"body":"itself, you know, I would say"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":916.88,"endTime":920.51,"body":"was kind of 85 90% there for"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":916.88,"endTime":920.51,"body":"both books before I started kind"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":920.51,"endTime":922.67,"body":"of opening it up to other people"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":920.51,"endTime":922.67,"body":"to play with."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":923.14,"endTime":925.39,"body":"Yeah, I was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":923.14,"endTime":925.39,"body":"curious about that, with Yoffy"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":925.39,"endTime":930.19,"body":"Press, I do projects both ways."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":925.39,"endTime":930.19,"body":"So sometimes people come and I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":930.19,"endTime":934.09,"body":"like, this is 80, or 90% there."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":930.19,"endTime":934.09,"body":"And it's like brainstorming"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":934.09,"endTime":939.7,"body":"those last couple of fixes, or,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":934.09,"endTime":939.7,"body":"you know, just the, if we could"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":939.7,"endTime":942.94,"body":"just tweak this or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":939.7,"endTime":942.94,"body":"add this image, take this one"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":942.94,"endTime":947.38,"body":"out. And then I have projects"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":942.94,"endTime":947.38,"body":"where I'm literally starting"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":947.38,"endTime":952.27,"body":"with 600 images and I'm like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":947.38,"endTime":952.27,"body":"Alright, let me get back to you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":952.27,"endTime":957.88,"body":"in a year. (Laughs) I spend time"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":952.27,"endTime":957.88,"body":"with it. And, and it's, um, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":957.88,"endTime":962.02,"body":"know, some artists are better at"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":957.88,"endTime":962.02,"body":"looking at their work"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":962.02,"endTime":966.97,"body":"objectively than others. For me,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":962.02,"endTime":966.97,"body":"you know, I don't have a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":966.97,"endTime":968.17,"body":"preference or a difference."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":968.2,"endTime":970.39,"body":"Yeah, yeah, no, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":968.2,"endTime":970.39,"body":"mean, and that challenge is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":970.39,"endTime":972.91,"body":"really exciting for me, as well,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":970.39,"endTime":972.91,"body":"like, if a photographer shows me"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":972.91,"endTime":975.46,"body":"a bunch of work, and just says,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":972.91,"endTime":975.46,"body":"I have no idea what to do with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":975.46,"endTime":978.04,"body":"all these pictures. They seem to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":975.46,"endTime":978.04,"body":"be about something."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":978.91,"endTime":980.32,"body":"I love it, too."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":978.91,"endTime":980.32,"body":"It's the puzzle."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":980.36,"endTime":984.92,"body":"It's the puzzle."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":980.36,"endTime":984.92,"body":"And I yeah, I really love that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":984.92,"endTime":988.34,"body":"kind of challenge, and engaging"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":984.92,"endTime":988.34,"body":"in that challenge. And also, not"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":988.34,"endTime":994.13,"body":"having that, like, personal"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":988.34,"endTime":994.13,"body":"connection to every picture. All"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":994.13,"endTime":997.37,"body":"of a sudden, you know, I don't"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":994.13,"endTime":997.37,"body":"know, there's just, like, every"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":997.37,"endTime":1000.49,"body":"picture can mean so many"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":997.37,"endTime":1000.49,"body":"different things. Whereas with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1000.58,"endTime":1003.31,"body":"the photographer, or in my case,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1000.58,"endTime":1003.31,"body":"if it's my own work, like, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1003.31,"endTime":1005.83,"body":"feel like, this is what this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1003.31,"endTime":1005.83,"body":"picture is about. And then if"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1005.83,"endTime":1008.08,"body":"somebody else comes along and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1005.83,"endTime":1008.08,"body":"says, actually, there's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1008.08,"endTime":1012.22,"body":"potential for it to kind of fit"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1008.08,"endTime":1012.22,"body":"in this way, you know, and, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1012.22,"endTime":1014.56,"body":"kind of change it up a bit."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1012.22,"endTime":1014.56,"body":"That's really exciting for me"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1014.56,"endTime":1017.38,"body":"too, because it opens, all of a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1014.56,"endTime":1017.38,"body":"sudden, the pictures kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1017.38,"endTime":1022.12,"body":"open up to me in new ways that I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1017.38,"endTime":1022.12,"body":"didn't ever expect. Yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1022.12,"endTime":1026.02,"body":"that's, yeah, that's exciting."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1022.12,"endTime":1026.02,"body":"But it's, it's, I mean, I run"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1026.02,"endTime":1029.14,"body":"like, I run a master's program"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1026.02,"endTime":1029.14,"body":"over here, and have lots of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1029.14,"endTime":1032.56,"body":"students and you know, and lots"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1029.14,"endTime":1032.56,"body":"of photographer friends who have"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1032.56,"endTime":1036.01,"body":"that. I think it's a trait of a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1032.56,"endTime":1036.01,"body":"lot of photographers who are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1036.01,"endTime":1040.21,"body":"really committed to their work,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1036.01,"endTime":1040.21,"body":"but like, like, they just need"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1040.21,"endTime":1042.58,"body":"to finish it themselves. Like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1040.21,"endTime":1042.58,"body":"they want one more picture, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1042.58,"endTime":1045.46,"body":"need one more thing, or I don't"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1042.58,"endTime":1045.46,"body":"want to show it to anybody until"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1045.46,"endTime":1050.17,"body":"it's perfect. And there's this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1045.46,"endTime":1050.17,"body":"kind of real protectiveness, or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1050.17,"endTime":1052.45,"body":"kind of insecurity that goes"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1050.17,"endTime":1052.45,"body":"along with something where"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1052.45,"endTime":1055.09,"body":"people feel like it has to be"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1052.45,"endTime":1055.09,"body":"totally resolved, before they"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1055.09,"endTime":1057.31,"body":"show it to a publisher or an"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1055.09,"endTime":1057.31,"body":"editor or anybody."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1058.24,"endTime":1061.06,"body":"People can also"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1058.24,"endTime":1061.06,"body":"get trapped in their own spiral"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1061.09,"endTime":1063.73,"body":"of editing and pulling it apart"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1061.09,"endTime":1063.73,"body":"and starting over."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1066.25,"endTime":1067.48,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1067.51,"endTime":1070.03,"body":"That's awesome."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1067.51,"endTime":1070.03,"body":"Yeah, it's a slippery slope, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1070.0,"endTime":1072.49,"body":"Yeah, I think it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1070.0,"endTime":1072.49,"body":"can be. You know, I've seen"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1070.03,"endTime":1070.36,"body":"think."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1072.49,"endTime":1076.48,"body":"people whose projects, you know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1072.49,"endTime":1076.48,"body":"run on for 12 years, because"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1076.48,"endTime":1080.23,"body":"they can't, like they can't just"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1076.48,"endTime":1080.23,"body":"finish it themselves. And I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1080.23,"endTime":1083.23,"body":"learned from seeing that. I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1080.23,"endTime":1083.23,"body":"really encouraged my students,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1083.38,"endTime":1088.57,"body":"and also learned to encourage"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1083.38,"endTime":1088.57,"body":"myself to kind of like, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1088.57,"endTime":1091.3,"body":"know, open it up a little bit."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1088.57,"endTime":1091.3,"body":"And the fact is that publishers"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1091.3,"endTime":1093.73,"body":"and designers and editors, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1091.3,"endTime":1093.73,"body":"all of these other people that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1093.73,"endTime":1097.36,"body":"you're showing your work to,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1093.73,"endTime":1097.36,"body":"like they have expertise and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1097.36,"endTime":1099.85,"body":"knowledge and input, and they"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1097.36,"endTime":1099.85,"body":"can really help you along the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1099.85,"endTime":1104.29,"body":"way. And there's not a lot of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1099.85,"endTime":1104.29,"body":"publishers that like, just want"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1104.29,"endTime":1110.65,"body":"to like the thing perfectly"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1104.29,"endTime":1110.65,"body":"formed. Yeah, like their only"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1110.8,"endTime":1114.61,"body":"job is to go to the printers and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1110.8,"endTime":1114.61,"body":"print it out and sell it. Do you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1114.61,"endTime":1117.01,"body":"don't I mean? I don't think a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1114.61,"endTime":1117.01,"body":"lot of publishers in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1117.01,"endTime":1120.37,"body":"photography, at least are like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1117.01,"endTime":1120.37,"body":"interested in just being that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1121.12,"endTime":1123.67,"body":"middle person that goes between"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1121.12,"endTime":1123.67,"body":"the photographer and the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1123.91,"endTime":1128.08,"body":"printing press."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1128.12,"endTime":1130.07,"body":"I mean, there's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1128.12,"endTime":1130.07,"body":"no money in publishing. So we've"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1130.07,"endTime":1131.36,"body":"got to have fun somehow."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1131.6,"endTime":1132.59,"body":"Exactly. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1132.0,"endTime":1134.67,"body":"Yeah. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1132.0,"endTime":1134.67,"body":"managing the print production is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1134.67,"endTime":1139.38,"body":"not it. Yeah. That's not the fun"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1134.67,"endTime":1139.38,"body":"part. Yeah, I'm, actually have a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1139.38,"endTime":1141.33,"body":"question. That's kind of the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1139.38,"endTime":1141.33,"body":"opposite of what we're talking"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1141.33,"endTime":1146.46,"body":"about. Because I often feel and,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1141.33,"endTime":1146.46,"body":"and this might also lend itself"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1146.49,"endTime":1149.61,"body":"a little bit more to less"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1146.49,"endTime":1149.61,"body":"experienced photographers, but"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1150.06,"endTime":1154.26,"body":"they get really eager to get"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1150.06,"endTime":1154.26,"body":"their work out and to publish it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1154.26,"endTime":1157.89,"body":"as a book. And they rush the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1154.26,"endTime":1157.89,"body":"project. And they don't spend"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1157.89,"endTime":1160.71,"body":"enough time experimenting and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1157.89,"endTime":1160.71,"body":"thinking through how to push it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1160.71,"endTime":1164.64,"body":"in ways that would be really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1160.71,"endTime":1164.64,"body":"impactful. And in reading about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1164.73,"endTime":1168.51,"body":"your process of putting together"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1164.73,"endTime":1168.51,"body":"Slant, I think it's a great"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1168.51,"endTime":1171.51,"body":"example of a project that could"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1168.51,"endTime":1171.51,"body":"have easily been like pretty"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1171.51,"endTime":1175.11,"body":"good, but ultimately not"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1171.51,"endTime":1175.11,"body":"noteworthy if you'd run with one"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1175.11,"endTime":1178.02,"body":"of the first concepts that came"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1175.11,"endTime":1178.02,"body":"to mind like just displaying the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1178.02,"endTime":1182.52,"body":"text alone or creating images"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1178.02,"endTime":1182.52,"body":"that were attended to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1182.55,"endTime":1186.81,"body":"literally visually describe the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1182.55,"endTime":1186.81,"body":"text. And so when you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1186.81,"endTime":1189.51,"body":"teaching or generally"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1186.81,"endTime":1189.51,"body":"counseling, any photographer,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1189.51,"endTime":1192.0,"body":"how much of an emphasis do you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1189.51,"endTime":1192.0,"body":"put on the importance of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1192.0,"endTime":1196.5,"body":"research and experimentation and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1192.0,"endTime":1196.5,"body":"giving projects time to evolve?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1197.16,"endTime":1200.37,"body":"Granted I'm not talking to the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1197.16,"endTime":1200.37,"body":"people that are 12 years down"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1200.37,"endTime":1204.15,"body":"the line on one project. People"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1200.37,"endTime":1204.15,"body":"that are going any other way."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1204.0,"endTime":1206.94,"body":"I mean, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1204.0,"endTime":1206.94,"body":"research and experimentation, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1206.94,"endTime":1210.09,"body":"like the, like pretty much the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1206.94,"endTime":1210.09,"body":"fundamentals of like the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1210.09,"endTime":1213.09,"body":"curriculum I developed for the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1210.09,"endTime":1213.09,"body":"master's program that I run. So"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1213.09,"endTime":1216.51,"body":"it's kinda like, that's super"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1213.09,"endTime":1216.51,"body":"important to me. I might even"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1216.51,"endTime":1219.84,"body":"overemphasize it to a certain"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1216.51,"endTime":1219.84,"body":"extent, because, but I really, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1219.84,"endTime":1226.47,"body":"really do think those are, like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1219.84,"endTime":1226.47,"body":"fundamental core aspects of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1226.47,"endTime":1229.74,"body":"making any body of work, really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1226.47,"endTime":1229.74,"body":"understanding the kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1229.77,"endTime":1232.32,"body":"subject matter, the content, the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1229.77,"endTime":1232.32,"body":"references, all of the things"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1232.32,"endTime":1234.75,"body":"that that are playing off of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1232.32,"endTime":1234.75,"body":"your of your work, the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1234.75,"endTime":1236.67,"body":"experiences you're having in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1234.75,"endTime":1236.67,"body":"your own life that are playing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1236.67,"endTime":1241.65,"body":"off that work. And then also,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1236.67,"endTime":1241.65,"body":"yeah, pushing yourself outside"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1242.13,"endTime":1245.97,"body":"of your comfort zone a little"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1242.13,"endTime":1245.97,"body":"bit and trying, trying to see"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1245.97,"endTime":1248.76,"body":"what happens when you change it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1245.97,"endTime":1248.76,"body":"up a bit, and not being afraid"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1248.94,"endTime":1252.54,"body":"for things to fail or to not"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1248.94,"endTime":1252.54,"body":"work out, you know, that's part"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1252.54,"endTime":1255.42,"body":"of the process. I think, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1252.54,"endTime":1255.42,"body":"one of the big changes that I've"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1255.42,"endTime":1260.16,"body":"seen in terms of, you know, I've"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1255.42,"endTime":1260.16,"body":"been teaching now for about 13"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1260.16,"endTime":1264.51,"body":"or 14 years, and maybe longer 15"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1260.16,"endTime":1264.51,"body":"years. And because of the rise"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1264.51,"endTime":1266.85,"body":"of the digital, like, there's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1264.51,"endTime":1266.85,"body":"this, this, I don't know that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1267.48,"endTime":1270.36,"body":"there's this kind of obsession"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1267.48,"endTime":1270.36,"body":"with every frame being perfect."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1270.36,"endTime":1273.18,"body":"And if it's not perfect, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1270.36,"endTime":1273.18,"body":"just delete it and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1273.21,"endTime":1275.79,"body":"move on to the next and that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1273.21,"endTime":1275.79,"body":"sort of thing. And, and I think"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1275.79,"endTime":1277.95,"body":"that's a real shame. Because"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1275.79,"endTime":1277.95,"body":"often, you know, six months down"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1277.95,"endTime":1281.34,"body":"the line, you realize, like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1277.95,"endTime":1281.34,"body":"these pictures that you wish you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1281.34,"endTime":1284.55,"body":"didn't delete, you know, deleted"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1281.34,"endTime":1284.55,"body":"are great. So, I think..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1285.27,"endTime":1287.82,"body":"I have so many"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1285.27,"endTime":1287.82,"body":"of those. I should have deleted"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1287.82,"endTime":1288.06,"body":"them."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1290.04,"endTime":1291.03,"body":"So I think,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1290.04,"endTime":1291.03,"body":"Yeah..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1291.03,"endTime":1293.16,"body":"Keep going back,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1291.03,"endTime":1293.16,"body":"Yup, still nothing. (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1293.27,"endTime":1295.52,"body":"Yeah. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1293.27,"endTime":1295.52,"body":"there's that, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1295.55,"endTime":1300.14,"body":"classic story of Robert Frank's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1295.55,"endTime":1300.14,"body":"The Americans, and he shot"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1300.14,"endTime":1303.8,"body":"something like 300,000"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1300.14,"endTime":1303.8,"body":"photographs and printed 62, or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1303.8,"endTime":1305.84,"body":"whatever the numbers are, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1303.8,"endTime":1305.84,"body":"know what I mean? So, I think"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1305.84,"endTime":1309.05,"body":"you have to be able to allow"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1305.84,"endTime":1309.05,"body":"yourself to like, yeah, to play"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1309.05,"endTime":1313.16,"body":"and experiment, and then push"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1309.05,"endTime":1313.16,"body":"yourself a little bit. But,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1313.97,"endTime":1316.13,"body":"yeah, I'm just kind of, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1313.97,"endTime":1316.13,"body":"that was something that I had to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1316.16,"endTime":1319.19,"body":"learn myself, I was really as a,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1316.16,"endTime":1319.19,"body":"as a young photographer, like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1319.19,"endTime":1321.98,"body":"straight out of college, and I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1319.19,"endTime":1321.98,"body":"was really impatient. And I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1321.98,"endTime":1324.59,"body":"wanted to, like, get my work out"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1321.98,"endTime":1324.59,"body":"and like, be able to do a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1324.59,"endTime":1329.27,"body":"project in six months, and so"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1324.59,"endTime":1329.27,"body":"on. And I think, you know, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1329.27,"endTime":1331.73,"body":"just realized over time that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1329.27,"endTime":1331.73,"body":"it's like, it's a long game,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1331.76,"endTime":1336.53,"body":"things take time to develop and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1331.76,"endTime":1336.53,"body":"mature and evolve. Sometimes"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1336.53,"endTime":1339.2,"body":"they just have to go into"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1336.53,"endTime":1339.2,"body":"hibernation for you know, a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1339.2,"endTime":1342.62,"body":"little while before they start"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1339.2,"endTime":1342.62,"body":"to kind of reemerge or something"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1342.62,"endTime":1343.16,"body":"different."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1344.8,"endTime":1347.35,"body":"Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1344.8,"endTime":1347.35,"body":"probably also like, in school,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1347.53,"endTime":1351.37,"body":"you have assignments, and you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1347.53,"endTime":1351.37,"body":"have this finite time, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1351.37,"endTime":1354.55,"body":"like, you have to do your senior"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1351.37,"endTime":1354.55,"body":"thesis show, or whatever it is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1354.55,"endTime":1359.35,"body":"where you are expected to have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1354.55,"endTime":1359.35,"body":"it all wrapped up in a bow, in a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1359.38,"endTime":1364.45,"body":"discrete period of time. And so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1359.38,"endTime":1364.45,"body":"it maybe trains us to do it that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1364.45,"endTime":1364.75,"body":"way."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1364.75,"endTime":1366.67,"body":"Yeah, no,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1364.75,"endTime":1366.67,"body":"absolutely. I often say to my"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1366.67,"endTime":1368.89,"body":"students, like, just think of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1366.67,"endTime":1368.89,"body":"this project as like, as the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1368.89,"endTime":1371.89,"body":"first chapter of the rest of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1368.89,"endTime":1371.89,"body":"your work. This isn't, this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1371.89,"endTime":1373.81,"body":"doesn't have to be your life's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1371.89,"endTime":1373.81,"body":"work, it doesn't have to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1374.41,"endTime":1379.09,"body":"represent everything you've ever"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1374.41,"endTime":1379.09,"body":"done. You know, it's not going"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1379.09,"endTime":1383.47,"body":"to necessarily be the statement"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1379.09,"endTime":1383.47,"body":"piece that you know, defines you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1383.47,"endTime":1385.6,"body":"for the rest, you know, this is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1383.47,"endTime":1385.6,"body":"this is just the beginning. And"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1386.53,"endTime":1389.71,"body":"it's a long game, and people are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1386.53,"endTime":1389.71,"body":"gonna, you know, make new bodies"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1389.71,"endTime":1393.07,"body":"of work and evolve and go in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1389.71,"endTime":1393.07,"body":"different directions. So, so"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1393.07,"endTime":1396.7,"body":"yeah, I mean, I think, I think"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1393.07,"endTime":1396.7,"body":"that's important, but I also"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1396.7,"endTime":1401.65,"body":"totally empathize with just"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1396.7,"endTime":1401.65,"body":"being impatient. And being a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1401.65,"endTime":1405.07,"body":"young photographer desperate to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1401.65,"endTime":1405.07,"body":"like, show the world your work"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1405.07,"endTime":1407.86,"body":"and get it out there and see it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1405.07,"endTime":1407.86,"body":"on a shelf...."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1407.86,"endTime":1411.19,"body":"And be famous!"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1407.86,"endTime":1411.19,"body":"I'm ready to be famous already."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1411.03,"endTime":1412.41,"body":"(Laughs) Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1411.03,"endTime":1412.41,"body":"well, it's not even about being"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1411.19,"endTime":1411.22,"body":"(laughs)"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1412.41,"endTime":1414.24,"body":"famous. I think it's just"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1412.41,"endTime":1414.24,"body":"because like you said, like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1414.24,"endTime":1417.9,"body":"there's not so much money in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1414.24,"endTime":1417.9,"body":"this world. So the kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1417.9,"endTime":1423.24,"body":"rewards are really, like getting"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1417.9,"endTime":1423.24,"body":"other people's attention, and,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1423.24,"endTime":1427.89,"body":"and them seeing it and engaging"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1423.24,"endTime":1427.89,"body":"with it. And kind of, yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1427.89,"endTime":1431.64,"body":"getting it, you know. There's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1427.89,"endTime":1431.64,"body":"nothing more rewarding than"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1431.64,"endTime":1434.07,"body":"putting the work out there and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1431.64,"endTime":1434.07,"body":"then finding out the other"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1434.07,"endTime":1441.09,"body":"people get it. You know, that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1434.07,"endTime":1441.09,"body":"was a big concern for me with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1441.12,"endTime":1443.25,"body":"with Slant and with other"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1441.12,"endTime":1443.25,"body":"projects that I've put out there"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1443.25,"endTime":1447.18,"body":"is that kind of thing. Like, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1443.25,"endTime":1447.18,"body":"think this is pretty good, but I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1447.18,"endTime":1450.15,"body":"have no idea what others..., you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1447.18,"endTime":1450.15,"body":"know, like, I think it's fun and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1450.15,"endTime":1453.69,"body":"funny and quirky, and kind of,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1450.15,"endTime":1453.69,"body":"you know, but other people might"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1453.69,"endTime":1456.42,"body":"just be like, what the hell is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1453.69,"endTime":1456.42,"body":"this thing you know, and then"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1456.42,"endTime":1459.06,"body":"there's something really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1456.42,"endTime":1459.06,"body":"rewarding, that kind of sense"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1459.06,"endTime":1461.94,"body":"that people get to you and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1459.06,"endTime":1461.94,"body":"people know where you're coming"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1461.94,"endTime":1465.87,"body":"from, and, and also kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1461.94,"endTime":1465.87,"body":"respond in ways that you never"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1465.87,"endTime":1470.1,"body":"expected them to, and find new"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1465.87,"endTime":1470.1,"body":"meanings that open up your your"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1470.1,"endTime":1475.2,"body":"brain as well. So, yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1470.1,"endTime":1475.2,"body":"yeah, I empathize. I empathize"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1475.2,"endTime":1479.85,"body":"with that kind of impatience."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1475.2,"endTime":1479.85,"body":"But I do think, you know, my"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1479.85,"endTime":1481.92,"body":"favorite my favorite"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1479.85,"endTime":1481.92,"body":"photographers in the world,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1481.92,"endTime":1488.97,"body":"like, in terms of the history of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1481.92,"endTime":1488.97,"body":"photography, you know, they"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1488.97,"endTime":1492.54,"body":"have been or were around a l"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1488.97,"endTime":1492.54,"body":"ng time. They were, you know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1492.54,"endTime":1497.1,"body":"they have 50 year long careers"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1492.54,"endTime":1497.1,"body":"nd they evolve and they develo"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1497.1,"endTime":1500.46,"body":"and they change, you know, it t"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1497.1,"endTime":1500.46,"body":"kes decades. And so, you kn"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1500.46,"endTime":1504.24,"body":"w, if you're committed to this,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1500.46,"endTime":1504.24,"body":"and you've kind of, or you're ki"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1504.24,"endTime":1507.72,"body":"d of addicted to this world,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1504.24,"endTime":1507.72,"body":"you know, it's, you might spend"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1507.96,"endTime":1512.76,"body":"40, 50, 60 years doing it. And s"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1507.96,"endTime":1512.76,"body":"you have to kind of recogniz"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1512.76,"endTime":1516.06,"body":"that time is a part of it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1512.76,"endTime":1516.06,"body":"and patience, as well."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1519.32,"endTime":1521.75,"body":"I think the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1519.32,"endTime":1521.75,"body":"research piece too, is super"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1521.75,"endTime":1525.68,"body":"important. It's amazing to me,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1521.75,"endTime":1525.68,"body":"you know, doing like, reviewing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1525.68,"endTime":1529.22,"body":"portfolios, and someone shows"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1525.68,"endTime":1529.22,"body":"something, it's like, oh, have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1529.22,"endTime":1532.79,"body":"you? This reminds me, (I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1529.22,"endTime":1532.79,"body":"saying) this reminds me of this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1532.79,"endTime":1535.85,"body":"work or that work? Or have you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1532.79,"endTime":1535.85,"body":"looked at this? And they're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1535.85,"endTime":1543.62,"body":"like, No. There's just not that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1535.85,"endTime":1543.62,"body":"awareness of how your work is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1543.65,"endTime":1549.38,"body":"fitting into a bigger context or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1543.65,"endTime":1549.38,"body":"a bigger conversation. I was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1549.38,"endTime":1552.77,"body":"reading about, like, who you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1549.38,"endTime":1552.77,"body":"specifically researched, when"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1552.77,"endTime":1557.87,"body":"you were doing Slant about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1552.77,"endTime":1557.87,"body":"pairing images and text and that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1558.08,"endTime":1561.68,"body":"helped you and gave you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1558.08,"endTime":1561.68,"body":"additional ideas. And I mean, to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1561.68,"endTime":1566.33,"body":"me, you're putting so much into"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1561.68,"endTime":1566.33,"body":"a project and to put it out in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1566.33,"endTime":1570.65,"body":"the world and, and not have a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1566.33,"endTime":1570.65,"body":"full understanding of how it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1570.65,"endTime":1573.71,"body":"fits in, that's a mistake."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1574.22,"endTime":1576.2,"body":"No, I entirely"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1574.22,"endTime":1576.2,"body":"agree. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1578.04,"endTime":1583.05,"body":"This is a really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1578.04,"endTime":1583.05,"body":"dumb example. But I years ago, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1583.08,"endTime":1588.09,"body":"went to Portland, Oregon, and I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1583.08,"endTime":1588.09,"body":"wanted to get a bird tattoo. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1588.09,"endTime":1592.32,"body":"I did not know of the skit"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1588.09,"endTime":1592.32,"body":"Portlandia that put a bird on it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1592.77,"endTime":1597.24,"body":"until literally the day before I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1592.77,"endTime":1597.24,"body":"went. I told a friend like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1597.24,"endTime":1600.36,"body":"I'm gonna get this tattoo in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1597.24,"endTime":1600.36,"body":"Portland. What are you gonna"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1600.36,"endTime":1605.97,"body":"get? \"Birds.\" And she, like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1600.36,"endTime":1605.97,"body":"lost it, like, lost her mind and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1605.97,"endTime":1609.09,"body":"was hysterically laughing like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1605.97,"endTime":1609.09,"body":"Oh, that's amazing. And I was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1609.09,"endTime":1614.61,"body":"like, I don't get it. And she"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1609.09,"endTime":1614.61,"body":"was like, Oh, my God. And like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1614.79,"endTime":1618.12,"body":"you know, so I still got the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1614.79,"endTime":1618.12,"body":"tattoo, but I could at least be"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1618.12,"endTime":1621.39,"body":"up front about like, oh, put a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1618.12,"endTime":1621.39,"body":"bird on it in Portland. Instead"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1621.39,"endTime":1623.61,"body":"of feeling like an asshole."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1625.08,"endTime":1628.41,"body":"Yeah, you totally"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1625.08,"endTime":1628.41,"body":"get the reference. It becomes"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1628.41,"endTime":1630.51,"body":"kind of an ironic take on that."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1630.78,"endTime":1633.27,"body":"Yes, exactly."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1630.78,"endTime":1633.27,"body":"That's, that's what I was going"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1633.27,"endTime":1633.42,"body":"for."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1635.13,"endTime":1636.12,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1636.39,"endTime":1639.27,"body":"Um, so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1636.39,"endTime":1639.27,"body":"collaboration is a very high"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1639.27,"endTime":1643.56,"body":"value of mine, it seems like you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1639.27,"endTime":1643.56,"body":"share that value as well. And I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1643.56,"endTime":1646.65,"body":"loved reading about how you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1643.56,"endTime":1646.65,"body":"started SeeSaw magazine, kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1646.65,"endTime":1651.48,"body":"as a reaction to and an antidote"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1646.65,"endTime":1651.48,"body":"for the competitiveness that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1651.48,"endTime":1654.27,"body":"you're experiencing in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1651.48,"endTime":1654.27,"body":"photography shortly after"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1654.27,"endTime":1657.93,"body":"leaving school? In what ways do"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1654.27,"endTime":1657.93,"body":"you feel collaboration has"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1657.93,"endTime":1661.47,"body":"benefited you as an artist and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1657.93,"endTime":1661.47,"body":"just as a human?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1663.7,"endTime":1668.02,"body":"I mean, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1663.7,"endTime":1668.02,"body":"think the collaborative aspects"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1668.02,"endTime":1673.63,"body":"of things, though, yeah.... Like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1668.02,"endTime":1673.63,"body":"you said, after university, or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1673.63,"endTime":1678.46,"body":"after college, I like I felt"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1673.63,"endTime":1678.46,"body":"really, I really enjoyed the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1678.46,"endTime":1680.68,"body":"university environment,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1678.46,"endTime":1680.68,"body":"experience and having this kind"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1680.68,"endTime":1684.31,"body":"of group of people that I could"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1680.68,"endTime":1684.31,"body":"engage with. And then as soon as"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1684.31,"endTime":1687.28,"body":"it finished, like, everybody"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1684.31,"endTime":1687.28,"body":"went out there, and I still"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1687.28,"endTime":1689.41,"body":"maintain friendships with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1687.28,"endTime":1689.41,"body":"various people and that sort of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1689.41,"endTime":1691.48,"body":"thing. But, but yeah, you're all"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1689.41,"endTime":1691.48,"body":"of a sudden, you're kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1691.48,"endTime":1692.92,"body":"thrown out there on your own,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1691.48,"endTime":1692.92,"body":"and there's a kind of real"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1692.92,"endTime":1698.02,"body":"independent spirit to it. And"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1692.92,"endTime":1698.02,"body":"it's, and, you know, partially,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1698.02,"endTime":1700.57,"body":"it's, like, it does become"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1698.02,"endTime":1700.57,"body":"competitive, in a sense. So"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1700.57,"endTime":1702.88,"body":"you've kind of feel this, the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1700.57,"endTime":1702.88,"body":"sense of, you're always"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1702.88,"endTime":1706.15,"body":"comparing yourself to each"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1702.88,"endTime":1706.15,"body":"other. And I got really kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1706.15,"endTime":1711.61,"body":"fed up with that feeling. And"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1706.15,"endTime":1711.61,"body":"that sense of, of, like, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1711.61,"endTime":1713.62,"body":"know, I wanted to celebrate"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1711.61,"endTime":1713.62,"body":"other people's successes, when I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1713.62,"endTime":1716.29,"body":"had a friend or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1713.62,"endTime":1716.29,"body":"somebody who I went to school"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1716.29,"endTime":1720.67,"body":"with, or whatever, get something"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1716.29,"endTime":1720.67,"body":"published, like, I was excited"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1720.67,"endTime":1724.3,"body":"for them, you know, and I was,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1720.67,"endTime":1724.3,"body":"and I was, and I was also at"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1724.3,"endTime":1729.73,"body":"that point in my life kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1724.3,"endTime":1729.73,"body":"bouncing between England, like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1729.73,"endTime":1732.61,"body":"London and New York, because my"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1729.73,"endTime":1732.61,"body":"girlfriend at the time, who is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1732.61,"endTime":1736.57,"body":"my wife now was British, so she"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1732.61,"endTime":1736.57,"body":"was doing her master's in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1736.57,"endTime":1738.97,"body":"London. And then I was in New"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1736.57,"endTime":1738.97,"body":"York, and I was kind of bouncing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1738.97,"endTime":1741.61,"body":"back and forth. And I was"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1738.97,"endTime":1741.61,"body":"starting to develop a community"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1741.61,"endTime":1745.78,"body":"of people in London, whose work"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1741.61,"endTime":1745.78,"body":"I really admired and liked. And"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1745.78,"endTime":1749.74,"body":"so part of like, starting off"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1745.78,"endTime":1749.74,"body":"SeeSaw was really about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1750.22,"endTime":1752.53,"body":"initially wanting to show my"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1750.22,"endTime":1752.53,"body":"friends in New York what my"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1752.53,"endTime":1754.57,"body":"friends in London we're doing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1752.53,"endTime":1754.57,"body":"and with my friends in London"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1754.87,"endTime":1756.67,"body":"what my friends in New York,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1754.87,"endTime":1756.67,"body":"we're doing you know; kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1757.21,"endTime":1762.25,"body":"creating some sort of bridge"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1757.21,"endTime":1762.25,"body":"between those those worlds. And,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1762.64,"endTime":1766.03,"body":"and just by doing that magazine,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1762.64,"endTime":1766.03,"body":"and starting to kind of play"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1766.03,"endTime":1768.22,"body":"around with that, I just got"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1766.03,"endTime":1768.22,"body":"excited about sharing work or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1768.22,"endTime":1772.27,"body":"sharing other people's work with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1768.22,"endTime":1772.27,"body":"each other. And so like, that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1772.27,"endTime":1775.12,"body":"was probably my initial kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1772.27,"endTime":1775.12,"body":"collaborative effort with that,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1775.18,"endTime":1778.06,"body":"that idea of like, I want to be,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1775.18,"endTime":1778.06,"body":"you know, a cheerleader, a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1778.06,"endTime":1780.61,"body":"champion of other people's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1778.06,"endTime":1780.61,"body":"practice because I think what"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1780.61,"endTime":1784.12,"body":"they're doing is really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1780.61,"endTime":1784.12,"body":"interesting and engaging. And,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1784.27,"endTime":1788.92,"body":"and that led me down like a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1784.27,"endTime":1788.92,"body":"whole path of collaborative"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1788.92,"endTime":1793.03,"body":"opportunities that are really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1788.92,"endTime":1793.03,"body":"like the backbone of my career"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1793.03,"endTime":1797.65,"body":"in a lot of ways because, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1793.03,"endTime":1797.65,"body":"know, it led on to, to writing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1797.65,"endTime":1802.66,"body":"quite a bit about photography to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1797.65,"endTime":1802.66,"body":"curating exhibitions, yeah to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1802.72,"endTime":1807.19,"body":"kind of working in collectives"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1802.72,"endTime":1807.19,"body":"that sort of thing. And I also"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1807.19,"endTime":1809.98,"body":"kind of started to realize that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1807.19,"endTime":1809.98,"body":"there was this little this like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1809.98,"endTime":1813.43,"body":"photo world, which, which, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1809.98,"endTime":1813.43,"body":"know, you're very familiar with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1813.43,"endTime":1816.76,"body":"as well, which is a really small"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1813.43,"endTime":1816.76,"body":"world, but it's like, it's full"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1816.76,"endTime":1820.12,"body":"of like, the most incredible"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1816.76,"endTime":1820.12,"body":"people. And those are often the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1820.12,"endTime":1823.57,"body":"most generous people ever."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1820.12,"endTime":1823.57,"body":"Because, again, going back to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1823.57,"endTime":1826.78,"body":"it, there's not a huge, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1823.57,"endTime":1826.78,"body":"know, financial reward to what,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1827.35,"endTime":1829.93,"body":"what this world offers. So it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1827.35,"endTime":1829.93,"body":"really is about these"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1829.93,"endTime":1832.09,"body":"relationships and these"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1829.93,"endTime":1832.09,"body":"connections that you build with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1832.09,"endTime":1836.23,"body":"other people. And I really,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1832.09,"endTime":1836.23,"body":"really value that and appreciate"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1836.23,"endTime":1843.49,"body":"that. And it's not like a kind"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1836.23,"endTime":1843.49,"body":"of networking kind of thing. I'm"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1843.49,"endTime":1847.54,"body":"not into the networking thing,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1843.49,"endTime":1847.54,"body":"but I'm interested in spending"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1847.54,"endTime":1852.1,"body":"my time with people who are into"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1847.54,"endTime":1852.1,"body":"what I'm into, and are my"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1852.1,"endTime":1859.09,"body":"friends and are also just, like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1852.1,"endTime":1859.09,"body":"just amazing, creative artists"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1859.09,"endTime":1864.13,"body":"and designers, and thinkers,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1859.09,"endTime":1864.13,"body":"that sort of thing. So, yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1864.13,"endTime":1866.05,"body":"I get a lot of inspiration off"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1864.13,"endTime":1866.05,"body":"of that as well, that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1866.05,"endTime":1869.41,"body":"collaborative process, I feel"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1866.05,"endTime":1869.41,"body":"like, it really helps give me a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1869.41,"endTime":1875.05,"body":"sense of motivation, and, like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1869.41,"endTime":1875.05,"body":"wanting to share stuff with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1875.05,"endTime":1880.84,"body":"friends and have them share"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1875.05,"endTime":1880.84,"body":"stuff with me. and support each"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1880.84,"endTime":1883.57,"body":"other and really kind of like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1880.84,"endTime":1883.57,"body":"push each other to, to kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1883.57,"endTime":1885.61,"body":"do interesting things together."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1883.57,"endTime":1885.61,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1885.68,"endTime":1886.79,"body":"Like, more is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1885.68,"endTime":1886.79,"body":"more."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1886.81,"endTime":1888.16,"body":"Yeah, more is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1886.81,"endTime":1888.16,"body":"more. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1889.81,"endTime":1892.45,"body":"So in addition"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1889.81,"endTime":1892.45,"body":"to being a photographer, like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1892.45,"endTime":1895.57,"body":"you said, you're a writer,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1892.45,"endTime":1895.57,"body":"curator, teacher.... How do you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1895.57,"endTime":1901.03,"body":"feel that these different"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1895.57,"endTime":1901.03,"body":"perspectives contribute to your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1901.09,"endTime":1903.88,"body":"artistic practice? Or is it hard"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1901.09,"endTime":1903.88,"body":"for you to switch gears?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1903.0,"endTime":1906.03,"body":"Yeah, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1903.0,"endTime":1906.03,"body":"that was something that took a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1906.03,"endTime":1912.45,"body":"long time as well. I mean, like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1906.03,"endTime":1912.45,"body":"I said, initially, like, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1912.45,"endTime":1915.99,"body":"started SeeSaw magazine, just"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1912.45,"endTime":1915.99,"body":"because I, to be honest, like, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1915.99,"endTime":1918.09,"body":"was a freelance photographer"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1915.99,"endTime":1918.09,"body":"with a lot of free time on my"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1918.09,"endTime":1923.97,"body":"hands. And, and, you know, so I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1918.09,"endTime":1923.97,"body":"started doing that just as a way"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1923.97,"endTime":1927.21,"body":"of kind of staying engaged and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1923.97,"endTime":1927.21,"body":"building new friendships and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1927.21,"endTime":1930.3,"body":"relationships, and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1927.21,"endTime":1930.3,"body":"learning about what was going on"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1930.3,"endTime":1935.07,"body":"in photography in the world. And"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1930.3,"endTime":1935.07,"body":"that led me down this road of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1935.07,"endTime":1939.63,"body":"kind of doing a lot of writing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1935.07,"endTime":1939.63,"body":"because SeeSaw, it kind of it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1939.63,"endTime":1942.18,"body":"was one of the kind of, like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1939.63,"endTime":1942.18,"body":"like, there were other people"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1942.18,"endTime":1945.81,"body":"that are doing blogs, but I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1942.18,"endTime":1945.81,"body":"don't think there were that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1945.81,"endTime":1951.75,"body":"many, like magazines online when"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1945.81,"endTime":1951.75,"body":"I started doing that. So the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1951.75,"endTime":1953.61,"body":"only reason I published it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1951.75,"endTime":1953.61,"body":"online was because I didn't have"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1953.61,"endTime":1957.69,"body":"the money or the budget or, or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1953.61,"endTime":1957.69,"body":"the kind of, like, I couldn't"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1957.69,"endTime":1959.34,"body":"get advertising. I didn't know"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1957.69,"endTime":1959.34,"body":"how to get advertising or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1959.34,"endTime":1962.13,"body":"anything printed. Okay, I would"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1959.34,"endTime":1962.13,"body":"have printed it if I could, but"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1962.76,"endTime":1966.36,"body":"it was just easier to build a,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1962.76,"endTime":1966.36,"body":"you know, like a really basic"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1966.36,"endTime":1971.34,"body":"website. So but yeah, so all of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1966.36,"endTime":1971.34,"body":"a sudden, like, a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1971.34,"endTime":1974.1,"body":"seem to kind of respond to that."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1971.34,"endTime":1974.1,"body":"And it got me going down this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1974.1,"endTime":1979.86,"body":"road of writing, and then doing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1974.1,"endTime":1979.86,"body":"some curatorial projects. And,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1979.92,"endTime":1986.34,"body":"and then I started teaching also"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1979.92,"endTime":1986.34,"body":"through that. So doing that,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1986.73,"endTime":1989.58,"body":"like benefited me greatly. It"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1986.73,"endTime":1989.58,"body":"kind of led me down all these"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1989.58,"endTime":1991.89,"body":"really interesting paths. But I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1989.58,"endTime":1991.89,"body":"started to do this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1991.89,"endTime":1995.22,"body":"compartmentalizing thing where I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1991.89,"endTime":1995.22,"body":"felt like, every day I was"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1995.22,"endTime":1998.22,"body":"wearing a different hat or doing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1995.22,"endTime":1998.22,"body":"a different job. So like Monday,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1998.22,"endTime":2000.65,"body":"I was teaching and Tuesday, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":1998.22,"endTime":2000.65,"body":"was curating something,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2000.65,"endTime":2003.5,"body":"Wednesday, I was writing an"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2000.65,"endTime":2003.5,"body":"article. And you know, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2003.5,"endTime":2006.86,"body":"Thursday, I was trying to make"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2003.5,"endTime":2006.86,"body":"my own work. And I felt really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2007.28,"endTime":2012.47,"body":"hectic and schizophrenic. If you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2007.28,"endTime":2012.47,"body":"know whatI  mean. I then I had"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2012.47,"endTime":2016.22,"body":"an opportunity to do this to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2012.47,"endTime":2016.22,"body":"curate this festival in Poland."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2016.28,"endTime":2022.07,"body":"And part of that was also there"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2016.28,"endTime":2022.07,"body":"was a commission that I wanted"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2022.07,"endTime":2025.85,"body":"to do as a kind of visiting"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2022.07,"endTime":2025.85,"body":"artists in one of the museums"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2025.85,"endTime":2028.67,"body":"that was part of that festival."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2025.85,"endTime":2028.67,"body":"So I kind of took the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2028.67,"endTime":2031.97,"body":"opportunity to like, find a way"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2028.67,"endTime":2031.97,"body":"to start creating some sort of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2031.97,"endTime":2037.25,"body":"Venn diagram where my curation"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2031.97,"endTime":2037.25,"body":"overlapped with my photographic"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2037.25,"endTime":2040.04,"body":"practice, which also overlapped"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2037.25,"endTime":2040.04,"body":"with some of the research that I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2040.04,"endTime":2043.4,"body":"was doing. And then I started"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2040.04,"endTime":2043.4,"body":"realizing I could develop like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2043.4,"endTime":2048.38,"body":"lectures, and teaching methods"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2043.4,"endTime":2048.38,"body":"off the back of that. And so it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2048.38,"endTime":2051.2,"body":"was only about kind of seven or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2048.38,"endTime":2051.2,"body":"eight years ago that I started"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2051.2,"endTime":2055.28,"body":"to realize that rather than"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2051.2,"endTime":2055.28,"body":"trying to like, think of all of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2055.28,"endTime":2058.4,"body":"these things as being separate"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2055.28,"endTime":2058.4,"body":"like that, they were actually"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2058.4,"endTime":2062.87,"body":"all one thing. And at the heart"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2058.4,"endTime":2062.87,"body":"of them is really my own"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2062.87,"endTime":2064.61,"body":"practice. Like the reason I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2062.87,"endTime":2064.61,"body":"started writing about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2064.61,"endTime":2067.04,"body":"photography was so that I could"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2064.61,"endTime":2067.04,"body":"understand how other people were"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2067.04,"endTime":2069.98,"body":"doing something so that I could"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2067.04,"endTime":2069.98,"body":"do it myself if you know what I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2069.98,"endTime":2075.89,"body":"mean. And so, so yeah, so I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2069.98,"endTime":2075.89,"body":"started realizing that actually,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2075.89,"endTime":2079.76,"body":"like, all of these things are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2075.89,"endTime":2079.76,"body":"just one giant kind of solar"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2079.76,"endTime":2084.8,"body":"system. That then really defines"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2079.76,"endTime":2084.8,"body":"me as my my kind of creative"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2084.8,"endTime":2088.1,"body":"practice. So yeah, so so I tried"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2084.8,"endTime":2088.1,"body":"to bring them all together now"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2088.1,"endTime":2091.43,"body":"and think of them all as the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2088.1,"endTime":2091.43,"body":"same thing. So yeah, I'm trying"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2091.43,"endTime":2094.76,"body":"to try to have projects that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2091.43,"endTime":2094.76,"body":"helped me to understand the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2094.76,"endTime":2098.48,"body":"overlaps and the kind of the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2094.76,"endTime":2098.48,"body":"relationships between all of all"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2098.48,"endTime":2101.33,"body":"of those things and then the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2098.48,"endTime":2101.33,"body":"projects I've been doing like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2101.33,"endTime":2105.47,"body":"Slant or like the previous book"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2101.33,"endTime":2105.47,"body":"Folk, you know, involve my own"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2105.71,"endTime":2107.78,"body":"photography, but they also"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2105.71,"endTime":2107.78,"body":"involve a certain amount of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2107.9,"endTime":2115.07,"body":"editing and curation. And, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2107.9,"endTime":2115.07,"body":"know, text and research. And so,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2115.28,"endTime":2120.83,"body":"so yeah, that was a, that was a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2115.28,"endTime":2120.83,"body":"huge eye opener to me, just to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2120.83,"endTime":2124.67,"body":"see that actually... Like, if I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2120.83,"endTime":2124.67,"body":"was doing one of these things, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2124.67,"endTime":2128.15,"body":"was actually, like benefiting"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2124.67,"endTime":2128.15,"body":"all of the rest at the same"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2128.15,"endTime":2131.72,"body":"time. As long as I was conscious"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2128.15,"endTime":2131.72,"body":"and careful of that, and didn't"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2131.72,"endTime":2135.2,"body":"get distracted by doing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2131.72,"endTime":2135.2,"body":"something that had nothing to do"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2135.2,"endTime":2136.4,"body":"with everything else that I was"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2135.2,"endTime":2136.4,"body":"doing."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2137.29,"endTime":2141.25,"body":"That's, that's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2137.29,"endTime":2141.25,"body":"my problem. Like, ooh, but that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2141.25,"endTime":2144.76,"body":"would be fun, too. I'll start a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2141.25,"endTime":2144.76,"body":"podcast. I mean, how hard can"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2144.76,"endTime":2151.15,"body":"that be? So I think I warned you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2144.76,"endTime":2151.15,"body":"that I asked everyone about the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2151.15,"endTime":2154.81,"body":"best and worst decision. So what"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2151.15,"endTime":2154.81,"body":"was the best? What do you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2154.81,"endTime":2158.32,"body":"consider to be the best career"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2154.81,"endTime":2158.32,"body":"decision you've made?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2159.11,"endTime":2163.97,"body":"Um, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2159.11,"endTime":2163.97,"body":"think it a lot of it relates, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2163.97,"endTime":2167.87,"body":"think, I mean, it seems super"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2163.97,"endTime":2167.87,"body":"cliche to say, but it gets like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2167.87,"endTime":2171.89,"body":"some kind of horrible job"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2167.87,"endTime":2171.89,"body":"interview, but like, like, the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2171.89,"endTime":2173.9,"body":"answer to both of those"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2171.89,"endTime":2173.9,"body":"questions is kind of the same"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2173.9,"endTime":2176.69,"body":"thing in a weird way. And it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2173.9,"endTime":2176.69,"body":"kind of relates to what we were"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2176.69,"endTime":2182.51,"body":"just talking about, which is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2176.69,"endTime":2182.51,"body":"that idea that like, the best"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2182.51,"endTime":2187.64,"body":"thing that I've done, I feel"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2182.51,"endTime":2187.64,"body":"like is really like open up to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2187.64,"endTime":2190.91,"body":"photography through all of these"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2187.64,"endTime":2190.91,"body":"different avenues and channels."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2191.18,"endTime":2194.3,"body":"So rather than kind of saying,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2191.18,"endTime":2194.3,"body":"like, strictly like, I'm just"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2194.3,"endTime":2197.63,"body":"gonna take pictures in this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2194.3,"endTime":2197.63,"body":"specific way, for the rest of my"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2197.63,"endTime":2205.37,"body":"life, and do this one thing, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2197.63,"endTime":2205.37,"body":"kind of like, yeah, just opened"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2205.37,"endTime":2207.98,"body":"up my field of vision and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2205.37,"endTime":2207.98,"body":"realized that I could engage"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2207.98,"endTime":2211.49,"body":"with this medium that I really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2207.98,"endTime":2211.49,"body":"love. And I love what it brings"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2211.49,"endTime":2218.48,"body":"to my life in all of these"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2211.49,"endTime":2218.48,"body":"different ways and engage with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2218.48,"endTime":2220.46,"body":"all of these different projects,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2218.48,"endTime":2220.46,"body":"like you said, you know, like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2220.46,"endTime":2222.44,"body":"why don't I start a podcast, why"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2220.46,"endTime":2222.44,"body":"don't I start a magazine? Why"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2222.44,"endTime":2226.52,"body":"don't I like, you know, pitch an"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2222.44,"endTime":2226.52,"body":"exhibition to curate, you know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2227.78,"endTime":2233.3,"body":"but like, for me that that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2227.78,"endTime":2233.3,"body":"eclectic kind of approach to my"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2233.3,"endTime":2236.69,"body":"practice has just been, by far"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2233.3,"endTime":2236.69,"body":"the best thing I've ever done,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2236.69,"endTime":2241.01,"body":"because I think I would have"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2236.69,"endTime":2241.01,"body":"been quite kind of lonely and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2241.01,"endTime":2246.14,"body":"kind of stagnating a bit if I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2241.01,"endTime":2246.14,"body":"had just followed like that one"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2246.59,"endTime":2251.72,"body":"path. But on the flip side of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2246.59,"endTime":2251.72,"body":"that, you know, it's difficult,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2252.68,"endTime":2255.86,"body":"you know, look, in retrospect,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2252.68,"endTime":2255.86,"body":"like, it's difficult, I think,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2255.86,"endTime":2261.41,"body":"for other people to really,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2255.86,"endTime":2261.41,"body":"like, explain, like, there's no"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2261.44,"endTime":2265.79,"body":"elevator pitch of like, what I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2261.44,"endTime":2265.79,"body":"do. I mean, it's because every"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2265.79,"endTime":2269.06,"body":"project that I kind of deal"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2265.79,"endTime":2269.06,"body":"with, I try to deal with in a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2269.06,"endTime":2271.07,"body":"different way, or I try to come"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2269.06,"endTime":2271.07,"body":"at it from a different angle,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2271.07,"endTime":2275.09,"body":"just to keep myself excited and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2271.07,"endTime":2275.09,"body":"alive and kind of engaged. So"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2275.09,"endTime":2278.81,"body":"rather than just falling into"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2275.09,"endTime":2278.81,"body":"routines, or patterns, like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2278.81,"endTime":2282.71,"body":"wanting to kind of find new ways"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2278.81,"endTime":2282.71,"body":"of doing things. And, and, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2282.71,"endTime":2284.87,"body":"know, researching other people"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2282.71,"endTime":2284.87,"body":"that do that there's so many"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2284.87,"endTime":2287.45,"body":"other artists and photographers"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2284.87,"endTime":2287.45,"body":"that have done that, including"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2287.69,"endTime":2289.64,"body":"the people I was talking about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2287.69,"endTime":2289.64,"body":"before, when you think about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2289.64,"endTime":2293.12,"body":"somebody like Walker Evans, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2289.64,"endTime":2293.12,"body":"know, like, yes, he made"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2293.12,"endTime":2297.08,"body":"photographs, but he also, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2293.12,"endTime":2297.08,"body":"know, curated exhibitions, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2297.08,"endTime":2301.25,"body":"he also edited magazines and he"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2297.08,"endTime":2301.25,"body":"also taught that, you know, like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2301.25,"endTime":2305.51,"body":"at Yale he also wrote incredible"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2301.25,"endTime":2305.51,"body":"essays about photography, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2305.51,"endTime":2308.33,"body":"gave incredible lectures, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2305.51,"endTime":2308.33,"body":"know, so, so I started to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2308.33,"endTime":2311.27,"body":"realize that, that, like, this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2308.33,"endTime":2311.27,"body":"isn't anything new, that other"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2311.27,"endTime":2314.03,"body":"people have kind of done that."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2311.27,"endTime":2314.03,"body":"But I also started to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2314.03,"endTime":2320.87,"body":"also recognize that, like, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2314.03,"endTime":2320.87,"body":"that there, there are people out"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2320.87,"endTime":2324.98,"body":"there that, that did find a path"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2320.87,"endTime":2324.98,"body":"and kind of, like, stick with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2324.98,"endTime":2327.26,"body":"it, and, or they find an"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2324.98,"endTime":2327.26,"body":"aesthetic, or they find a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2327.26,"endTime":2331.64,"body":"subject matter, and they just go"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2327.26,"endTime":2331.64,"body":"for it. And that's, like all"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2331.64,"endTime":2335.36,"body":"consuming for them. And I really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2331.64,"endTime":2335.36,"body":"appreciate that and respect that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2335.36,"endTime":2340.31,"body":"in a lot of people. But it's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2335.36,"endTime":2340.31,"body":"also easy for me to kind of, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2340.31,"endTime":2343.07,"body":"know, say their name to you and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2340.31,"endTime":2343.07,"body":"you immediately have a picture"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2343.07,"endTime":2345.8,"body":"of like, what they do, or how"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2343.07,"endTime":2345.8,"body":"they do it, or what their"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2345.8,"endTime":2349.43,"body":"pictures look like or what"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2345.8,"endTime":2349.43,"body":"they're interested in. And, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2349.43,"endTime":2353.0,"body":"I think Yeah, I'm still trying"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2349.43,"endTime":2353.0,"body":"to kind of find that way where I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2353.0,"endTime":2357.17,"body":"can kind of explain what it is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2353.0,"endTime":2357.17,"body":"that I'm doing to other people"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2357.2,"endTime":2362.81,"body":"in less than like, two"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2357.2,"endTime":2362.81,"body":"paragraphs. My wife's always"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2362.81,"endTime":2365.57,"body":"like teasing and saying like you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2362.81,"endTime":2365.57,"body":"have way too many slashes in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2365.57,"endTime":2367.19,"body":"your bio like or commas."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2369.11,"endTime":2371.24,"body":"When people"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2369.11,"endTime":2371.24,"body":"asked me for a bio that's like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2371.27,"endTime":2375.86,"body":"you know, a very limited number"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2371.27,"endTime":2375.86,"body":"of words. I'm like, oh, what"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2375.86,"endTime":2382.07,"body":"major aspect of my photo career"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2375.86,"endTime":2382.07,"body":"am I just gonna not mention?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2382.0,"endTime":2383.83,"body":"Yeah, she's like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2382.0,"endTime":2383.83,"body":"you can't you can't be a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2384.1,"endTime":2387.52,"body":"photographer slash curator slash"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2384.1,"endTime":2387.52,"body":"writer slash teacher slash,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2387.91,"endTime":2391.0,"body":"like, What the hell are you? You"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2387.91,"endTime":2391.0,"body":"know? So yeah, I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2391.0,"endTime":2394.06,"body":"always this constant. You know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2391.0,"endTime":2394.06,"body":"that's what niggles at me. That"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2394.06,"endTime":2396.58,"body":"kind of thing of like, I wish"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2394.06,"endTime":2396.58,"body":"I wish there was some way that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2396.58,"endTime":2399.97,"body":"I could kind of condense it but"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2396.58,"endTime":2399.97,"body":"t the same time, every time I th"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2400.03,"endTime":2403.21,"body":"nk of doing that I think, like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2400.03,"endTime":2403.21,"body":"but then I would lose all of t"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2403.21,"endTime":2407.38,"body":"is other experience and exci"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2403.21,"endTime":2407.38,"body":"ement that I really enjoy. So,y"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2407.38,"endTime":2407.5,"body":"ah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2408.34,"endTime":2411.25,"body":"Yeah, you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2408.34,"endTime":2411.25,"body":"just a renaissance man of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2411.25,"endTime":2412.48,"body":"photographic..."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2412.6,"endTime":2414.22,"body":"Well, yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2412.6,"endTime":2414.22,"body":"either that or a jack of all"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2414.22,"endTime":2417.07,"body":"trades and master of none."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2417.07,"endTime":2423.73,"body":"I think mine is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2417.07,"endTime":2423.73,"body":"better. A publicist you are not."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2424.23,"endTime":2426.21,"body":"Yeah, that kind"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2424.23,"endTime":2426.21,"body":"of self deprecation of England"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2426.21,"endTime":2431.01,"body":"has gotten to me. (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2431.58,"endTime":2436.02,"body":"So you've worn"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2431.58,"endTime":2436.02,"body":"many hats successfully in the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2436.02,"endTime":2438.75,"body":"photo world, do you feel like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2436.02,"endTime":2438.75,"body":"you've accomplished everything"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2438.75,"endTime":2442.38,"body":"that you had originally set out"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2438.75,"endTime":2442.38,"body":"to do photographically? Or is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2442.38,"endTime":2444.87,"body":"there still a lot you want to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2442.38,"endTime":2444.87,"body":"do? Or both?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2445.77,"endTime":2447.54,"body":"Oh, God, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2445.77,"endTime":2447.54,"body":"no, I think there's a million"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2447.54,"endTime":2450.66,"body":"things that I'd still like to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2447.54,"endTime":2450.66,"body":"accomplish. I'm not, it's not"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2450.66,"endTime":2453.12,"body":"accomplishing and that sense of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2450.66,"endTime":2453.12,"body":"kind of, like ticking boxes and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2453.54,"endTime":2454.23,"body":"feeling validated...."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2454.23,"endTime":2458.1,"body":"Right, but if"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2454.23,"endTime":2458.1,"body":"you were talking to just out of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2458.1,"endTime":2461.91,"body":"school you and said, like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2458.1,"endTime":2461.91,"body":"in however many years I would"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2461.91,"endTime":2465.96,"body":"have curated these shows and had"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2461.91,"endTime":2465.96,"body":"these books, and had a master's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2465.96,"endTime":2466.56,"body":"program."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2466.63,"endTime":2468.79,"body":"In college, I had"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2466.63,"endTime":2468.79,"body":"this this teacher who was a bit"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2468.79,"endTime":2472.39,"body":"of a hippie, but she was, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2468.79,"endTime":2472.39,"body":"know, I had a bit of, I had one"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2472.39,"endTime":2475.72,"body":"of those panic attack kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2472.39,"endTime":2475.72,"body":"moments, about a year out of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2475.75,"endTime":2478.87,"body":"college. I think a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2475.75,"endTime":2478.87,"body":"go through it...."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2478.87,"endTime":2481.45,"body":"I was gonna say,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2478.87,"endTime":2481.45,"body":"that sounds familiar (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2481.84,"endTime":2483.4,"body":"Where you're just"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2481.84,"endTime":2483.4,"body":"like, what am I doing with my"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2483.4,"endTime":2485.8,"body":"life? Like, like, this isn't"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2483.4,"endTime":2485.8,"body":"what I expected, you know?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2487.15,"endTime":2488.92,"body":"Were you pass"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2487.15,"endTime":2488.92,"body":"out on the bathroom floor"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2488.92,"endTime":2491.11,"body":"somewhere? No, that wasn't you."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2491.06,"endTime":2494.72,"body":"(Laughs) Yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2491.06,"endTime":2494.72,"body":"I wrote this like letter to, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2494.72,"endTime":2497.54,"body":"know, it's the most embarrassing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2494.72,"endTime":2497.54,"body":"email I think I've ever sent."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2497.54,"endTime":2500.15,"body":"But I sent it to all my"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2497.54,"endTime":2500.15,"body":"professors at college just being"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2500.15,"endTime":2500.33,"body":"like..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2501.23,"endTime":2505.1,"body":"(Laughs) It was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2501.23,"endTime":2505.1,"body":"so embarassing that you wanted"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2505.1,"endTime":2506.54,"body":"everyone to read it."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2506.63,"endTime":2510.38,"body":"Exactly. It was"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2506.63,"endTime":2510.38,"body":"group email. And, but, you know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2510.38,"endTime":2513.2,"body":"I had, I had one teacher who was"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2510.38,"endTime":2513.2,"body":"like, she's, she was a bit of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2513.23,"endTime":2516.77,"body":"like, not hippy, but you know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2513.23,"endTime":2516.77,"body":"just a little bit laid back"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2516.89,"endTime":2519.17,"body":"about life a little bit more,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2516.89,"endTime":2519.17,"body":"but she did that kind of classic"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2519.86,"endTime":2522.05,"body":"John lennon, quote, \"Life is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2519.86,"endTime":2522.05,"body":"what happens when you're making"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2522.05,"endTime":2525.38,"body":"plans,\" kind of thing. And I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2522.05,"endTime":2525.38,"body":"think, like, when I look back at"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2525.38,"endTime":2530.27,"body":"what I wanted, like what I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2525.38,"endTime":2530.27,"body":"wanted to do and accomplish when"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2530.27,"endTime":2533.54,"body":"I was, I don't know, 16 and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2530.27,"endTime":2533.54,"body":"getting into photography, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2533.54,"endTime":2537.35,"body":"then when I was 21 and then when"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2533.54,"endTime":2537.35,"body":"I was 30. Like, it changes"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2537.35,"endTime":2543.59,"body":"constantly. And like, like what"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2537.35,"endTime":2543.59,"body":"I wanted when I was 20. Like, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2543.59,"endTime":2545.93,"body":"would not want that. Like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2543.59,"endTime":2545.93,"body":"glad that didn't happen."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2547.16,"endTime":2549.62,"body":"(Laughs) Like it would have"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2547.16,"endTime":2549.62,"body":"just, it's just not so.... Um,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2550.07,"endTime":2554.24,"body":"so yeah, I mean, I think, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2550.07,"endTime":2554.24,"body":"don't know, it's it's a journey."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2554.3,"endTime":2557.33,"body":"It's a career. That sounds"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2554.3,"endTime":2557.33,"body":"horrible. But yeah, so it's a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2557.36,"endTime":2561.8,"body":"it's a journey that's constantly"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2557.36,"endTime":2561.8,"body":"changing. And yeah, there are a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2561.8,"endTime":2565.25,"body":"lot of things that I really want"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2561.8,"endTime":2565.25,"body":"to, like, try out, I guess it's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2565.25,"endTime":2567.86,"body":"not really like, accomplish, but"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2565.25,"endTime":2567.86,"body":"it's more like experience."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2569.24,"endTime":2569.81,"body":"Like what?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2571.61,"endTime":2574.52,"body":"I don't know, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2571.61,"endTime":2574.52,"body":"mean, yeah, like I said, like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2574.52,"endTime":2581.03,"body":"I'd like to experiment with I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2574.52,"endTime":2581.03,"body":"guess, like in terms of my own"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2581.03,"endTime":2585.2,"body":"work - kind of exhibition work a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2581.03,"endTime":2585.2,"body":"little bit more. Like, I've had"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2585.2,"endTime":2587.66,"body":"a lot of fun dealing with books."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2585.2,"endTime":2587.66,"body":"And I'd like to make a lot more"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2587.66,"endTime":2591.44,"body":"books and kind of find new ways"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2587.66,"endTime":2591.44,"body":"to make books. But I'm still"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2591.44,"endTime":2595.76,"body":"trying to figure out how my own"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2591.44,"endTime":2595.76,"body":"work, can engage with the with a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2595.76,"endTime":2601.01,"body":"gallery space. Because I think"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2595.76,"endTime":2601.01,"body":"up into this point made a lot of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2601.01,"endTime":2604.91,"body":"my work for the book. When it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2601.01,"endTime":2604.91,"body":"comes to the exhibition point."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2605.03,"endTime":2608.72,"body":"I'm like, how do I, how do I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2605.03,"endTime":2608.72,"body":"translate this? You know, how do"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2608.72,"endTime":2612.08,"body":"you move? How do you translate"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2608.72,"endTime":2612.08,"body":"all of this book into something"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2612.08,"endTime":2614.57,"body":"that exists on a wall and that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2612.08,"endTime":2614.57,"body":"sort of thing? That's not just"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2614.57,"endTime":2615.38,"body":"the book on wall."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2616.83,"endTime":2620.46,"body":"I often am"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2616.83,"endTime":2620.46,"body":"working on the reverse problem,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2620.46,"endTime":2622.08,"body":"where it's like, well I don't"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2620.46,"endTime":2622.08,"body":"want to create something that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2622.08,"endTime":2623.43,"body":"looks like an exhibition"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2622.08,"endTime":2623.43,"body":"catalog?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2623.45,"endTime":2628.19,"body":"Yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2623.45,"endTime":2628.19,"body":"exactly. Yeah. I'd like to work"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2628.19,"endTime":2633.08,"body":"on. I'd like to find something"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2628.19,"endTime":2633.08,"body":"that I can work on, like long"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2633.08,"endTime":2636.29,"body":"term, but in a, like a genuinely"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2633.08,"endTime":2636.29,"body":"long term way, kind of something"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2636.29,"endTime":2641.3,"body":"that, that takes over for, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2636.29,"endTime":2641.3,"body":"know, 10 years or whatever, not,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2641.6,"endTime":2645.71,"body":"not in the sense of just"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2641.6,"endTime":2645.71,"body":"procrastinating, but in a sense"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2645.71,"endTime":2650.21,"body":"of kind of something that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2645.71,"endTime":2650.21,"body":"develops and evolves and gain"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2650.21,"endTime":2654.65,"body":"some sort of weight and depth"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2650.21,"endTime":2654.65,"body":"over over that period of time."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2654.65,"endTime":2656.09,"body":"Because of the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2654.65,"endTime":2656.09,"body":"time."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2656.0,"endTime":2660.53,"body":"Yeah. Because of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2656.0,"endTime":2660.53,"body":"the time. Yeah, I don't know."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2660.53,"endTime":2663.74,"body":"I'm just, I'm just open to Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2660.53,"endTime":2663.74,"body":"I'm open to see what happens."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2663.74,"endTime":2666.47,"body":"I'm hoping, you know, and it's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2663.74,"endTime":2666.47,"body":"also you know, you reach a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2666.47,"endTime":2669.74,"body":"certain age and you just think,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2666.47,"endTime":2669.74,"body":"like, okay, I also just want to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2669.98,"endTime":2674.6,"body":"stay engaged, like I don't want"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2669.98,"endTime":2674.6,"body":"to become, you know, out of step"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2674.6,"endTime":2679.49,"body":"or out of touch or irrelevant"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2674.6,"endTime":2679.49,"body":"or, you know, so I think that's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2679.49,"endTime":2682.28,"body":"why I continue to do the kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2679.49,"endTime":2682.28,"body":"other stuff to the curating and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2682.28,"endTime":2685.73,"body":"the writing and stuff because I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2682.28,"endTime":2685.73,"body":"just want to maintain that sense"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2685.73,"endTime":2689.96,"body":"of like excitement about the new"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2685.73,"endTime":2689.96,"body":"and like, what's happening now."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2690.32,"endTime":2693.26,"body":"Yeah and stay"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2690.32,"endTime":2693.26,"body":"plugged in with what's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2693.26,"endTime":2696.47,"body":"happening. Because I do think"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2693.26,"endTime":2696.47,"body":"it's easy as an artist to kind"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2696.47,"endTime":2700.19,"body":"of retreat into your own silo."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2698.14,"endTime":2700.42,"body":"Yeah, no,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2698.14,"endTime":2700.42,"body":"absolutely. But there are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2700.42,"endTime":2703.93,"body":"people, you know, the people I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2700.42,"endTime":2703.93,"body":"really admire, people like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2703.93,"endTime":2708.22,"body":"Robert Adams or Lee Friedlander"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2703.93,"endTime":2708.22,"body":"or, you know, who have just bee"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2708.28,"endTime":2711.88,"body":"at it for so long, and they jus"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2708.28,"endTime":2711.88,"body":"continue to kind of, I don't"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2711.88,"endTime":2715.69,"body":"know, I think their passion"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2711.88,"endTime":2715.69,"body":"for it or their commitment i"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2715.69,"endTime":2719.65,"body":"still as alive as it was whe"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2715.69,"endTime":2719.65,"body":"they were, you know, starting"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2719.68,"endTime":2722.92,"body":"out. And that's, that's kind o"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2719.68,"endTime":2722.92,"body":"what I aspire to. I want to be"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2723.58,"endTime":2726.46,"body":"as excited about photograph"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2723.58,"endTime":2726.46,"body":", as I was when I was 16 and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2726.46,"endTime":2729.94,"body":"9 and 30. And now, I want t"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2726.46,"endTime":2729.94,"body":", you know, I want to still fee"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2729.94,"endTime":2735.76,"body":"that kind of excitement for it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2729.94,"endTime":2735.76,"body":"ecause I'm a real photo nerd. I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2735.76,"endTime":2739.21,"body":"m a real photo geek. I get a lo"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2735.76,"endTime":2739.21,"body":"of out of the medium."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2753.04,"endTime":2755.8,"body":"I once had tea"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2753.04,"endTime":2755.8,"body":"at Robert Adams' house"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2755.82,"endTime":2756.6,"body":"Wow. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2756.58,"endTime":2759.19,"body":"He lives in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2756.58,"endTime":2759.19,"body":"Astoria, Oregon, which is my"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2759.22,"endTime":2765.58,"body":"most favorite place on the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2759.22,"endTime":2765.58,"body":"planet. And he has on his front"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2762.51,"endTime":2788.64,"body":"He's so smart and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2762.51,"endTime":2788.64,"body":"so gentle. It's just all about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2766.09,"endTime":2771.46,"body":"door, like one of those stor"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2766.09,"endTime":2771.46,"body":"doors. It's just like all fo"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2771.97,"endTime":2782.14,"body":"anti-fracking bumper sti"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2771.97,"endTime":2782.14,"body":"kers. I'm like Okay, noted"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2782.14,"endTime":2782.71,"body":"(laughs"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2788.64,"endTime":2792.24,"body":"the love for it. You know what I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2788.64,"endTime":2792.24,"body":"mean? There's no ulterior"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2792.24,"endTime":2796.35,"body":"motives. There's no ego, really,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2792.24,"endTime":2796.35,"body":"to what he's doing."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2796.0,"endTime":2799.66,"body":"Yeah. And he'll"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2796.0,"endTime":2799.66,"body":"like, people write in letters"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2799.66,"endTime":2805.57,"body":"and he writes back, and it was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2799.66,"endTime":2805.57,"body":"really kind of adorable, but um,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2805.6,"endTime":2810.79,"body":"he was needing some toner or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2805.6,"endTime":2810.79,"body":"something for the darkroom and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2812.11,"endTime":2815.53,"body":"he was like, gonna drive to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2812.11,"endTime":2815.53,"body":"Portland to do it. And we were"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2815.53,"endTime":2819.7,"body":"trying to explain, like, you can"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2815.53,"endTime":2819.7,"body":"go online. He's like, Well, my,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2820.15,"endTime":2824.26,"body":"we don't have the internet here."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2820.15,"endTime":2824.26,"body":"But my neighbor across the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2824.26,"endTime":2827.71,"body":"street has it, maybe.... It was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2824.26,"endTime":2827.71,"body":"like, Okay. (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2828.85,"endTime":2830.35,"body":"You're like I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2828.85,"endTime":2830.35,"body":"have a signal right now."},{"speaker":"Aaron Schuman","startTime":2831.43,"endTime":2831.46,"body":"(laughs)"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2831.46,"endTime":2833.68,"body":"Right? What do"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2831.46,"endTime":2833.68,"body":"you want? What do you want? I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2833.68,"endTime":2835.36,"body":"got the Amazon app right here on"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2833.68,"endTime":2835.36,"body":"my phone. (laughs)"}]}