{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.37,"body":"Carolyn Drake"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.37,"body":"works on long term photo based"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2.37,"endTime":5.82,"body":"projects seeking to interrogate"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2.37,"endTime":5.82,"body":"dominant historical narratives"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":5.85,"endTime":9.12,"body":"and creatively reimagine them."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":5.85,"endTime":9.12,"body":"Her practice embraces"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":9.12,"endTime":12.27,"body":"collaboration and has in recent"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":9.12,"endTime":12.27,"body":"years melded photography with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":12.27,"endTime":16.32,"body":"sewing, collage and sculpture."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":12.27,"endTime":16.32,"body":"She's interested in collapsing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":16.32,"endTime":19.56,"body":"the traditional divide between"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":16.32,"endTime":19.56,"body":"author and subject, the real in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":19.56,"endTime":23.64,"body":"the imaginary, challenging"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":19.56,"endTime":23.64,"body":"entrenched binaries. Drake was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":23.64,"endTime":26.88,"body":"born in California and studied"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":23.64,"endTime":26.88,"body":"media and culture and history in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":26.88,"endTime":30.21,"body":"the early 1990s at Brown"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":26.88,"endTime":30.21,"body":"University. Following her"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":30.21,"endTime":33.3,"body":"graduation in 94, she moved to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":30.21,"endTime":33.3,"body":"New York and worked as an"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":33.3,"endTime":36.45,"body":"interactive designer for many"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":33.3,"endTime":36.45,"body":"years, before departing to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":36.45,"endTime":40.02,"body":"engage with the physical world"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":36.45,"endTime":40.02,"body":"through photography. She's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":40.02,"endTime":42.93,"body":"turned several long term"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":40.02,"endTime":42.93,"body":"projects into highly acclaimed"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":42.93,"endTime":47.46,"body":"book projects, including Two"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":42.93,"endTime":47.46,"body":"Rivers, Wild Pigeon, Internat,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":48.18,"endTime":51.54,"body":"and most recently Knit Club"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":48.18,"endTime":51.54,"body":"which was published in 2020 by"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":51.54,"endTime":55.44,"body":"TBW Books. It emerged from her"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":51.54,"endTime":55.44,"body":"collaboration with an enigmatic"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":55.44,"endTime":58.41,"body":"group of women in Mississippi,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":55.44,"endTime":58.41,"body":"and was shortlisted for the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":58.41,"endTime":61.74,"body":"Paris Photo Aperture Book of the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":58.41,"endTime":61.74,"body":"Year, and 2020 Lucie Photo Book"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":62.25,"endTime":65.07,"body":"Prize. Drake now lives in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":62.25,"endTime":65.07,"body":"California and is currently"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":65.07,"endTime":68.82,"body":"developing self reflective"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":65.07,"endTime":68.82,"body":"projects close to home. Her work"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":68.82,"endTime":72.51,"body":"has been supported by Guggenheim"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":68.82,"endTime":72.51,"body":"Fellowship, the Anamorphosis"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":72.57,"endTime":76.23,"body":"Book Prize, the Peter S. Reed"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":72.57,"endTime":76.23,"body":"Foundation, Lightwork, The Do"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":76.23,"endTime":79.47,"body":"Good Fund, the Lange-Taylor"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":76.23,"endTime":79.47,"body":"prize, Magnum Foundation,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":79.47,"endTime":82.71,"body":"Pulitzer Center and a Fulbright"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":79.47,"endTime":82.71,"body":"Fellowship. She is a member of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":82.71,"endTime":86.52,"body":"Magnum photos, please welcome"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":82.71,"endTime":86.52,"body":"Carolyn Drake to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":93.44,"endTime":99.29,"body":"I have a lot of questions, or at"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":93.44,"endTime":99.29,"body":"least some questions. And are"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":99.29,"endTime":101.03,"body":"you good to just get started?"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":101.06,"endTime":101.69,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":102.17,"endTime":102.59,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":102.59,"endTime":103.19,"body":"Let's try."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":103.21,"endTime":107.86,"body":"(laughs) Let's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":103.21,"endTime":107.86,"body":"try. They're about you. So they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":107.86,"endTime":112.45,"body":"should be relatively easy to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":107.86,"endTime":112.45,"body":"answer. But what I was finding"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":112.45,"endTime":115.06,"body":"when I was doing research, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":112.45,"endTime":115.06,"body":"mean, a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":115.06,"endTime":119.65,"body":"photographer's that I look at"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":115.06,"endTime":119.65,"body":"talk to, it seems like they've"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":119.65,"endTime":123.25,"body":"known from birth that they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":119.65,"endTime":123.25,"body":"wanted to be a photographer, or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":123.25,"endTime":126.01,"body":"they just kind of come out of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":123.25,"endTime":126.01,"body":"the womb with a camera saying"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":126.01,"endTime":130.75,"body":"this is it and you weren't like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":126.01,"endTime":130.75,"body":"that. And so you, you studied"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":130.75,"endTime":134.29,"body":"media and culture and history at"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":130.75,"endTime":134.29,"body":"Brown, and then you lived and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":134.29,"endTime":139.36,"body":"worked in New York, and before"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":134.29,"endTime":139.36,"body":"you change course, and went to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":139.36,"endTime":144.16,"body":"grad school for photography. So"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":139.36,"endTime":144.16,"body":"my question is, how, if at all,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":144.16,"endTime":148.15,"body":"do you think having a wider"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":144.16,"endTime":148.15,"body":"experience informs the way that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":148.15,"endTime":149.83,"body":"you approach photography?"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":152.12,"endTime":160.82,"body":"Um, I think my"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":152.12,"endTime":160.82,"body":"wider, I mean, in part, like"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":160.82,"endTime":166.64,"body":"academically, not like as an"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":160.82,"endTime":166.64,"body":"undergraduate in college, not"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":166.64,"endTime":177.17,"body":"being a major in photography"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":166.64,"endTime":177.17,"body":"just made me... Um, it gave me"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":177.17,"endTime":182.21,"body":"this whole background and"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":177.17,"endTime":182.21,"body":"reading texts and like, critical"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":182.21,"endTime":187.13,"body":"thinking that I'm not sure. I"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":182.21,"endTime":187.13,"body":"mean, I actually don't know what"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":187.13,"endTime":194.45,"body":"most like MFA or undergraduate"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":187.13,"endTime":194.45,"body":"programs and photography as art"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":194.48,"endTime":199.4,"body":"are like, but I think the kind"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":194.48,"endTime":199.4,"body":"of critical thinking and"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":199.4,"endTime":205.01,"body":"analysis that I did in college"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":199.4,"endTime":205.01,"body":"is really, really defines who I"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":205.01,"endTime":210.71,"body":"am still, for better or worse. I"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":205.01,"endTime":210.71,"body":"mean, sometimes it freezes me"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":210.71,"endTime":216.29,"body":"up, probably, I ask a lot of"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":210.71,"endTime":216.29,"body":"questions of myself, but I don't"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":216.29,"endTime":219.95,"body":"think I would let go of that."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":216.29,"endTime":219.95,"body":"And, I mean, in terms of the"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":219.95,"endTime":226.7,"body":"real life experience, you know,"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":219.95,"endTime":226.7,"body":"a lot of my real life experience"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":226.7,"endTime":237.77,"body":"has actually come from being a"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":226.7,"endTime":237.77,"body":"photographer. But I also I maybe"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":237.77,"endTime":241.46,"body":"it's also because I had a big"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":237.77,"endTime":241.46,"body":"career change when I was like,"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":241.46,"endTime":245.6,"body":"30, you know, so I was, I had a"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":241.46,"endTime":245.6,"body":"whole kind of developing career"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":246.41,"endTime":250.97,"body":"before I got into photography."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":246.41,"endTime":250.97,"body":"And so I always have in the back"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":250.97,"endTime":257.72,"body":"of my head, it is possible to"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":250.97,"endTime":257.72,"body":"change and do new things. And so"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":257.72,"endTime":264.68,"body":"I think that knowledge, when I"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":257.72,"endTime":264.68,"body":"went within my photography"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":264.68,"endTime":268.01,"body":"career, I want to make a change"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":264.68,"endTime":268.01,"body":"or try something new, I think,"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":268.52,"endTime":274.07,"body":"knowing that it's possible, from"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":268.52,"endTime":274.07,"body":"my previous experience, makes me"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":274.73,"endTime":277.31,"body":"much more willing to take those"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":274.73,"endTime":277.31,"body":"risks."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":278.63,"endTime":282.29,"body":"And why did you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":278.63,"endTime":282.29,"body":"make that change from a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":282.29,"endTime":285.47,"body":"different career to photography?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":282.29,"endTime":285.47,"body":"Like, what was it was it's the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":285.47,"endTime":289.4,"body":"kind of thing that was kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":285.47,"endTime":289.4,"body":"nagging at you like, oh, if I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":289.4,"endTime":291.59,"body":"could do anything, I would do"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":289.4,"endTime":291.59,"body":"this. And then one day, you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":291.59,"endTime":294.26,"body":"like, I'm just gonna do that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":291.59,"endTime":294.26,"body":"or..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":294.36,"endTime":299.55,"body":"Yeah, I always loved"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":294.36,"endTime":299.55,"body":"photography, but it's like, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":299.55,"endTime":304.41,"body":"just never thought, oh, that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":299.55,"endTime":304.41,"body":"could be my life. It just never"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":304.41,"endTime":308.82,"body":"occurred to me. And like, when I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":304.41,"endTime":308.82,"body":"was in junior high school, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":308.82,"endTime":315.75,"body":"took this photo class and my"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":308.82,"endTime":315.75,"body":"math teacher made a darkroom in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":315.75,"endTime":321.81,"body":"the basement of the school and,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":315.75,"endTime":321.81,"body":"and a few of us just did this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":321.81,"endTime":326.34,"body":"extracurricular thing. And I was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":321.81,"endTime":326.34,"body":"like, I fell in love with it."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":326.34,"endTime":332.19,"body":"But then when I left his class,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":326.34,"endTime":332.19,"body":"it stopped because I didn't, it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":332.19,"endTime":341.61,"body":"just didn't seem like a career"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":332.19,"endTime":341.61,"body":"path. And then I got, I got"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":341.61,"endTime":348.0,"body":"interested in documentary films,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":341.61,"endTime":348.0,"body":"I think in college, and then, so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":348.0,"endTime":352.56,"body":"that seemed like, a possible"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":348.0,"endTime":352.56,"body":"thing that I could follow"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":352.56,"endTime":353.4,"body":"through with after..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":353.4,"endTime":354.39,"body":"Right, you had an outlet."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":354.0,"endTime":359.58,"body":"Yeah. But like,"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":354.0,"endTime":359.58,"body":"eventually, I came back to"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":359.58,"endTime":364.98,"body":"photography, because I just felt"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":359.58,"endTime":364.98,"body":"like that was the medium that"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":364.98,"endTime":370.38,"body":"gave me independence more than"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":364.98,"endTime":370.38,"body":"in film, you know, I was just"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":370.38,"endTime":375.12,"body":"imagining all these crews, the"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":370.38,"endTime":375.12,"body":"big team you have to work with"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":375.12,"endTime":377.82,"body":"and all these people, you have"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":375.12,"endTime":377.82,"body":"to help produce your work and"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":378.03,"endTime":385.11,"body":"the cost of film. And so I"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":378.03,"endTime":385.11,"body":"really just... and, because I"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":385.11,"endTime":389.67,"body":"was so used to working in my job"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":385.11,"endTime":389.67,"body":"with other people and teams and"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":389.67,"endTime":392.34,"body":"group decision making, and I"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":389.67,"endTime":392.34,"body":"just felt like I just wanted to"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":392.34,"endTime":398.31,"body":"do something on my own and to"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":392.34,"endTime":398.31,"body":"get out in the world on my own"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":398.34,"endTime":402.24,"body":"rather than like going through"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":398.34,"endTime":402.24,"body":"all these bureaucratic hurdles"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":402.54,"endTime":403.14,"body":"to get there."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":403.2,"endTime":405.45,"body":"Right. Yeah, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":403.2,"endTime":405.45,"body":"can just kind of venture out"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":405.45,"endTime":408.45,"body":"with a camera and see what"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":405.45,"endTime":408.45,"body":"happens."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":408.84,"endTime":415.14,"body":"Yeah. I guess"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":408.84,"endTime":415.14,"body":"that's how I just, I actually"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":415.14,"endTime":420.87,"body":"started taking pictures in my"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":415.14,"endTime":420.87,"body":"neighborhood in Williamsburg, in"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":421.17,"endTime":425.31,"body":"the very beginning, of my"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":421.17,"endTime":425.31,"body":"neighbors, and one of them hired"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":425.31,"endTime":430.98,"body":"me to do a photoshoot of their"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":425.31,"endTime":430.98,"body":"dance school. And I made all"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":431.01,"endTime":433.95,"body":"these portraits, I learned how"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":431.01,"endTime":433.95,"body":"to use lights, and I like made"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":433.95,"endTime":437.16,"body":"these portraits of these girls"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":433.95,"endTime":437.16,"body":"and their dance costumes. That"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":437.16,"endTime":438.9,"body":"was like the first job I ever"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":437.16,"endTime":438.9,"body":"had."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":440.43,"endTime":444.18,"body":"Yeah, I think I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":440.43,"endTime":444.18,"body":"can see the throughline in your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":444.18,"endTime":450.54,"body":"work from that. (both laugh) So"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":444.18,"endTime":450.54,"body":"after living and working on long"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":450.54,"endTime":454.08,"body":"term projects in Central Asia"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":450.54,"endTime":454.08,"body":"for nearly a decade, you move"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":454.08,"endTime":458.88,"body":"back to the US and have focused"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":454.08,"endTime":458.88,"body":"on making work here. What"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":459.0,"endTime":463.74,"body":"prompted that decision to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":459.0,"endTime":463.74,"body":"relocate? And how, if at all,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":463.74,"endTime":467.79,"body":"has your approach to image"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":463.74,"endTime":467.79,"body":"making changed as a result of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":467.79,"endTime":474.03,"body":"trying to photograph? I mean,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":467.79,"endTime":474.03,"body":"it's an interesting kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":474.12,"endTime":477.27,"body":"issue where you're, you've been"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":474.12,"endTime":477.27,"body":"away for so long, and you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":477.27,"endTime":480.36,"body":"coming, you know, and you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":477.27,"endTime":480.36,"body":"used to photographing in another"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":480.36,"endTime":484.2,"body":"country in another culture and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":480.36,"endTime":484.2,"body":"now you're back photographing in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":484.2,"endTime":490.32,"body":"your own country and culture,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":484.2,"endTime":490.32,"body":"but it probably feels less like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":490.32,"endTime":493.83,"body":"your own after having been gone"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":490.32,"endTime":493.83,"body":"for so long. So can you talk"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":493.83,"endTime":495.99,"body":"about kind of that, that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":493.83,"endTime":495.99,"body":"interplay?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":496.92,"endTime":501.42,"body":"Yeah, I mean, the nice thing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":496.92,"endTime":501.42,"body":"about having it feel less like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":501.42,"endTime":506.58,"body":"my own place after being gone so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":501.42,"endTime":506.58,"body":"long, is that it just, I had"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":506.58,"endTime":516.63,"body":"fresh eyes. So I was just really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":506.58,"endTime":516.63,"body":"curious, you know? The United"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":516.63,"endTime":525.3,"body":"States was this foreign place to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":516.63,"endTime":525.3,"body":"me and, but also, I wanted all"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":525.3,"endTime":527.85,"body":"these projects that I had been"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":525.3,"endTime":527.85,"body":"working on in Central Asia, they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":527.85,"endTime":531.42,"body":"were these long term projects."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":527.85,"endTime":531.42,"body":"So I was kind of approaching"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":531.42,"endTime":536.91,"body":"them in a way that was somewhat"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":531.42,"endTime":536.91,"body":"consistent throughout the time"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":536.91,"endTime":542.55,"body":"of working on them and finishing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":536.91,"endTime":542.55,"body":"those projects put me in a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":542.55,"endTime":546.6,"body":"position where I was, I could"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":542.55,"endTime":546.6,"body":"liberate myself to like, try a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":546.6,"endTime":553.05,"body":"new visual strategy. And so I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":546.6,"endTime":553.05,"body":"was really excited, because I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":553.05,"endTime":557.85,"body":"just, you know, I felt I wanted"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":553.05,"endTime":557.85,"body":"to make work that was more"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":557.85,"endTime":560.64,"body":"participatory. And..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":562.89,"endTime":565.26,"body":"The people in it would be"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":562.89,"endTime":565.26,"body":"participating?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":565.0,"endTime":572.08,"body":"Yeah, I would collaborate with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":565.0,"endTime":572.08,"body":"people in a way and work with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":572.11,"endTime":578.83,"body":"people on creating images rather"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":572.11,"endTime":578.83,"body":"than this street photography -"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":578.83,"endTime":583.6,"body":"fly on the wall approach that I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":578.83,"endTime":583.6,"body":"think I had been taking for a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":583.6,"endTime":592.87,"body":"long time. I wanted to mix it up"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":583.6,"endTime":592.87,"body":"and make pictures that are more"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":594.28,"endTime":600.16,"body":"consciously constructed and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":594.28,"endTime":600.16,"body":"created. I wanted it to work on"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":600.16,"endTime":604.0,"body":"creating something rather than"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":600.16,"endTime":604.0,"body":"waiting for the picture to be"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":604.0,"endTime":604.9,"body":"given to me."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":605.17,"endTime":611.26,"body":"Mm hmm. That makes sense. Well,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":605.17,"endTime":611.26,"body":"but you were doing work, like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":611.26,"endTime":614.74,"body":"with the quilting and also where"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":611.26,"endTime":614.74,"body":"the people you were"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":614.74,"endTime":618.28,"body":"photographing, were manipulating"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":614.74,"endTime":618.28,"body":"or, you know, interacting with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":618.28,"endTime":623.02,"body":"the photos after? And do you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":618.28,"endTime":623.02,"body":"think that evolved into Okay,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":623.02,"endTime":625.99,"body":"now I want them to participate"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":623.02,"endTime":625.99,"body":"while the photo is being"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":625.99,"endTime":626.8,"body":"created?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":627.47,"endTime":639.11,"body":"Yeah, um, exactly. I mean, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":627.47,"endTime":639.11,"body":"you nailed it. Like, with my"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":639.65,"endTime":644.12,"body":"last project in Central Asia,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":639.65,"endTime":644.12,"body":"Wild Pigeon, I had, I had"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":644.12,"endTime":648.5,"body":"brought my photos and kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":644.12,"endTime":648.5,"body":"let go of control of like the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":648.5,"endTime":653.72,"body":"authorship of them and invited"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":648.5,"endTime":653.72,"body":"them to be re-authored by the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":653.72,"endTime":657.68,"body":"people I had photographed. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":653.72,"endTime":657.68,"body":"that was like this letting go of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":657.68,"endTime":660.95,"body":"control was interesting. And I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":657.68,"endTime":660.95,"body":"wanted to play more with that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":666.68,"endTime":672.23,"body":"because I think there's some"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":666.68,"endTime":672.23,"body":"beauty. And photography is a lot"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":672.23,"endTime":677.54,"body":"about control. So I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":672.23,"endTime":677.54,"body":"kind of work with that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":677.87,"endTime":681.53,"body":"assumption that we have that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":677.87,"endTime":681.53,"body":"that's all photography, like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":681.53,"endTime":682.04,"body":"that's..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":682.45,"endTime":686.11,"body":"Right that we make these"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":682.45,"endTime":686.11,"body":"pictures in their hours, as"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":686.11,"endTime":689.92,"body":"opposed to more of a shared"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":686.11,"endTime":689.92,"body":"authorship. I'm really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":689.92,"endTime":693.16,"body":"fascinated just with the idea of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":689.92,"endTime":693.16,"body":"collaboration in general. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":693.16,"endTime":697.09,"body":"it's part of why I love making"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":693.16,"endTime":697.09,"body":"photo books and feeling like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":698.44,"endTime":701.68,"body":"you know, two different people"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":698.44,"endTime":701.68,"body":"or four different people, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":701.68,"endTime":705.94,"body":"know, have ideas, and that's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":701.68,"endTime":705.94,"body":"kind of greater than just the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":705.94,"endTime":709.36,"body":"one. And so I love that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":705.94,"endTime":709.36,"body":"interplay and working with that,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":709.36,"endTime":713.71,"body":"which is a huge part of why I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":709.36,"endTime":713.71,"body":"drawn to your work. And so Knit"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":713.71,"endTime":718.99,"body":"Club was that next iteration for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":713.71,"endTime":718.99,"body":"you, you talked about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":718.99,"endTime":725.23,"body":"that you with these women, they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":718.99,"endTime":725.23,"body":"brought suggestions of places or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":725.23,"endTime":730.84,"body":"scenes or props, that it really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":725.23,"endTime":730.84,"body":"felt more communal, in certain"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":730.93,"endTime":735.76,"body":"ways. So did that get to that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":730.93,"endTime":735.76,"body":"next level for you? Or is there"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":735.76,"endTime":738.88,"body":"a level past that that you want"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":735.76,"endTime":738.88,"body":"to keep pushing?"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":739.32,"endTime":746.25,"body":"Um, well, what I"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":739.32,"endTime":746.25,"body":"did after Knit Club was, I think"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":746.25,"endTime":749.82,"body":"my work, in addition to becoming"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":746.25,"endTime":749.82,"body":"more like collaborative and"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":749.82,"endTime":757.08,"body":"participatory has become more"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":749.82,"endTime":757.08,"body":"turning inward, like, from"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":757.14,"endTime":762.69,"body":"Central Asia. Actually, I did"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":757.14,"endTime":762.69,"body":"some work in Ukraine, in between"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":762.69,"endTime":765.42,"body":"coming back here, and that's"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":762.69,"endTime":765.42,"body":"where I started playing with the"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":765.42,"endTime":771.84,"body":"whole idea of participating with"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":765.42,"endTime":771.84,"body":"other people, which led to Knit"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":771.84,"endTime":780.72,"body":"Club, I think, but, I think"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":771.84,"endTime":780.72,"body":"moving to Ukraine, and then to"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":780.72,"endTime":784.2,"body":"the Knit Club. And then I've"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":780.72,"endTime":784.2,"body":"also been making work at home in"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":784.23,"endTime":791.04,"body":"in California, where I live, and"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":784.23,"endTime":791.04,"body":"during COVID I started shooting"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":792.03,"endTime":795.33,"body":"my backyard, like things I"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":792.03,"endTime":795.33,"body":"created in my backyard..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":796.74,"endTime":798.66,"body":"Thats why I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":796.74,"endTime":798.66,"body":"didn't feel that bad when I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":798.66,"endTime":800.82,"body":"asked if you could do it early,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":798.66,"endTime":800.82,"body":"because I was like, Oh, she's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":800.82,"endTime":804.93,"body":"probably been up since before"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":800.82,"endTime":804.93,"body":"the sun, you know, creating some"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":805.23,"endTime":807.21,"body":"sculpture in her backyard to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":805.23,"endTime":807.21,"body":"photograph."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":808.74,"endTime":812.37,"body":"Well, I've slowed down on that,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":808.74,"endTime":812.37,"body":"because I feel like I need..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":812.37,"endTime":813.57,"body":"Because you got tired? (both"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":812.37,"endTime":813.57,"body":"laugh)"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":813.0,"endTime":820.17,"body":"Yeah, tired,"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":813.0,"endTime":820.17,"body":"tired of being in my house. But"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":820.23,"endTime":828.06,"body":"yeah, there's also been this"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":820.23,"endTime":828.06,"body":"shift inward. And so I've"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":828.06,"endTime":835.11,"body":"actually, since then started"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":828.06,"endTime":835.11,"body":"directly photographing myself,"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":835.14,"endTime":838.11,"body":"like with the backyard, I was"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":835.14,"endTime":838.11,"body":"photographing... I mean, I was"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":838.11,"endTime":840.9,"body":"reflected in the images, because"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":838.11,"endTime":840.9,"body":"they're in my space. And"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":840.9,"endTime":846.84,"body":"they're, I think they're an"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":840.9,"endTime":846.84,"body":"expression of (long pause) I"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":846.84,"endTime":851.07,"body":"think, as my old work might have"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":846.84,"endTime":851.07,"body":"been more descriptive of wat I"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":851.07,"endTime":857.55,"body":"see, it's becoming more a"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":851.07,"endTime":857.55,"body":"reflection of my inner impulses."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":857.61,"endTime":860.88,"body":"And some of the work in the"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":857.61,"endTime":860.88,"body":"backyard was kind of reflecting"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":860.88,"endTime":867.81,"body":"that and then I started trying"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":860.88,"endTime":867.81,"body":"to play with self portraiture,"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":867.81,"endTime":873.15,"body":"and I'm not sure where that's"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":867.81,"endTime":873.15,"body":"going to go. But that's been a"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":873.15,"endTime":875.64,"body":"really interesting thing to try."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":873.15,"endTime":875.64,"body":"Not only because it's like a"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":875.64,"endTime":881.4,"body":"technical problem to figure out,"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":875.64,"endTime":881.4,"body":"but, you know, there's a"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":881.4,"endTime":885.48,"body":"difference, there's something"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":881.4,"endTime":885.48,"body":"you learn when you see yourself"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":885.78,"endTime":888.99,"body":"about what it's like for other"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":885.78,"endTime":888.99,"body":"people to be seen by you."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":892.17,"endTime":895.23,"body":"When you were in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":892.17,"endTime":895.23,"body":"a couple of the photos in Knit"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":895.23,"endTime":902.4,"body":"Club, and then also this might"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":895.23,"endTime":902.4,"body":"be going like way deeper than it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":902.4,"endTime":906.9,"body":"is actual but I feel like in two"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":902.4,"endTime":906.9,"body":"things, like one is, I think a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":906.9,"endTime":910.86,"body":"lot of people are looking inward"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":906.9,"endTime":910.86,"body":"during COVID. You know, there's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":910.86,"endTime":914.67,"body":"a lot of isolation, there's a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":910.86,"endTime":914.67,"body":"lot of self reflection, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":914.67,"endTime":918.03,"body":"people making sourdough bread,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":914.67,"endTime":918.03,"body":"but if you, you know, I've"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":918.12,"endTime":922.53,"body":"bought a gazillion books all,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":918.12,"endTime":922.53,"body":"you know, trying to figure"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":922.53,"endTime":928.29,"body":"myself out better. You know, so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":922.53,"endTime":928.29,"body":"I think that there's an impulse"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":928.32,"endTime":932.43,"body":"there during this time, but"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":928.32,"endTime":932.43,"body":"also, it seems like with Knit"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":932.43,"endTime":937.53,"body":"Club, and it was sort of this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":932.43,"endTime":937.53,"body":"unexpected community that you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":937.53,"endTime":941.64,"body":"fell into with these women and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":937.53,"endTime":941.64,"body":"some of them were mothers, which"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":941.64,"endTime":945.99,"body":"wasn't an experience you have,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":941.64,"endTime":945.99,"body":"but then you, you know, were"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":945.99,"endTime":949.44,"body":"able to kind of tap into these"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":945.99,"endTime":949.44,"body":"different parts of yourself that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":949.44,"endTime":953.22,"body":"you weren't expecting. And so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":949.44,"endTime":953.22,"body":"maybe it's like the confluence"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":953.22,"endTime":957.06,"body":"of that plus the COVID. And here"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":953.22,"endTime":957.06,"body":"we are."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":957.27,"endTime":962.46,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":957.27,"endTime":962.46,"body":"there's something terrifying and"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":962.46,"endTime":970.71,"body":"insecure about, like, letting"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":962.46,"endTime":970.71,"body":"things happen. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":970.71,"endTime":976.47,"body":"finding out what you're doing"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":970.71,"endTime":976.47,"body":"partly by experiencing life, and"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":979.29,"endTime":982.53,"body":"it takes time, sometimes it"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":979.29,"endTime":982.53,"body":"takes time for that to come"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":982.53,"endTime":985.98,"body":"together, because you can't"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":982.53,"endTime":985.98,"body":"determine like, what it's going"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":985.98,"endTime":988.71,"body":"to be and when it's going to"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":985.98,"endTime":988.71,"body":"happen. But that's, I think,"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":988.71,"endTime":992.73,"body":"something that has been part of"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":988.71,"endTime":992.73,"body":"my life, even though I am now"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":992.94,"endTime":997.26,"body":"constructing pictures more,"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":992.94,"endTime":997.26,"body":"there's still a level of like,"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":997.26,"endTime":1001.13,"body":"spontaneity that I really"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":997.26,"endTime":1001.13,"body":"appreciate. And I tried to like,"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1001.13,"endTime":1014.54,"body":"let myself follow. And, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1001.13,"endTime":1014.54,"body":"that's all I have to say. Just"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1014.54,"endTime":1015.89,"body":"one small point there."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1017.39,"endTime":1021.32,"body":"No, I I agree."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1017.39,"endTime":1021.32,"body":"Um, I want to talk about photo"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1021.32,"endTime":1028.1,"body":"books you mentioned Wild Pigeon"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1021.32,"endTime":1028.1,"body":"and Two Rivers. And then do you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1028.1,"endTime":1031.7,"body":"say it Internat or Internet?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1032.38,"endTime":1039.13,"body":"Well, I say internet but in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1032.38,"endTime":1039.13,"body":"Russian you say internat, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1039.13,"endTime":1039.64,"body":"think."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1039.93,"endTime":1044.58,"body":"You self published those three,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1039.93,"endTime":1044.58,"body":"Two Rivers Wild Pigeon, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1044.58,"endTime":1052.32,"body":"Internat. And then you publish"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1044.58,"endTime":1052.32,"body":"Knit Club with TBW Books, Paul"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1052.32,"endTime":1057.57,"body":"Schiek is one of... I just adore"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1052.32,"endTime":1057.57,"body":"him. I want to be him when I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1057.57,"endTime":1061.98,"body":"grow up. So why did you decide"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1057.57,"endTime":1061.98,"body":"to work with a publisher for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1061.98,"endTime":1065.94,"body":"Knit Club after having really,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1061.98,"endTime":1065.94,"body":"three really successful sold out"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1065.94,"endTime":1068.97,"body":"books that you had published on"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1065.94,"endTime":1068.97,"body":"your own? And how did you pick?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1069.0,"endTime":1071.37,"body":"You know, how did you choose"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1069.0,"endTime":1071.37,"body":"Paul? How did you guys connect?"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1072.44,"endTime":1078.38,"body":"Um, well, first"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1072.44,"endTime":1078.38,"body":"of all, Paul lives in a in the"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1078.38,"endTime":1086.69,"body":"Bay Area where I live, so I knew"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1078.38,"endTime":1086.69,"body":"about him, and my friend, Mimi"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1086.69,"endTime":1092.39,"body":"Plum, made a book with him and I"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1086.69,"endTime":1092.39,"body":"kind of watched her process."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1093.59,"endTime":1095.87,"body":"Like, over time, I kind of"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1093.59,"endTime":1095.87,"body":"followed what happened with the"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1095.87,"endTime":1099.08,"body":"book that she was trying to"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1095.87,"endTime":1099.08,"body":"make. And I really liked, how it"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1099.08,"endTime":1106.82,"body":"came together. And I think"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1099.08,"endTime":1106.82,"body":"actually, Knit Club, like the"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1106.82,"endTime":1110.63,"body":"structure of it is, I think her"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1106.82,"endTime":1110.63,"body":"book was a model for what I"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1110.63,"endTime":1118.97,"body":"ended up doing. But I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1110.63,"endTime":1118.97,"body":"make a book that was less"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1118.97,"endTime":1123.83,"body":"about..., I wanted to just"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1118.97,"endTime":1123.83,"body":"experiment with making a book"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1123.83,"endTime":1129.53,"body":"that was less about design, and"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1123.83,"endTime":1129.53,"body":"more about just like really"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1129.56,"endTime":1132.23,"body":"classical and straightforward."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1129.56,"endTime":1132.23,"body":"Because all my other books have"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1132.23,"endTime":1139.31,"body":"been very, I mean, in varying"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1132.23,"endTime":1139.31,"body":"levels of like, embracing full"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1139.31,"endTime":1146.63,"body":"on design elements that become"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1139.31,"endTime":1146.63,"body":"as important as the photographs."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1146.69,"endTime":1152.48,"body":"And in this one, because the"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1146.69,"endTime":1152.48,"body":"photographs are very odd and"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1152.54,"endTime":1157.7,"body":"maybe you need to do a double"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1152.54,"endTime":1157.7,"body":"take to look at them again."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1157.72,"endTime":1162.58,"body":"Right, they kind"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1157.72,"endTime":1162.58,"body":"of need to breathe, yeah, I get"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1162.58,"endTime":1163.54,"body":"that for sure."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1164.17,"endTime":1169.03,"body":"And so I just"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1164.17,"endTime":1169.03,"body":"thought I want to try working"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1169.03,"endTime":1176.71,"body":"with Paul and the process has"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1169.03,"endTime":1176.71,"body":"been.... I've really enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1178.27,"endTime":1182.5,"body":"working on the book with him and"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1178.27,"endTime":1182.5,"body":"living close, like we've become"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1182.5,"endTime":1187.96,"body":"friends through the process. And"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1182.5,"endTime":1187.96,"body":"it was very collaborative. And I"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1187.96,"endTime":1192.91,"body":"mean, I think the experience I"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1187.96,"endTime":1192.91,"body":"mean, obviously, I'm sure you"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1192.91,"endTime":1195.13,"body":"experienced sometimes when"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1192.91,"endTime":1195.13,"body":"collaborating with artists on"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1195.13,"endTime":1197.68,"body":"books, there's tension"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1195.13,"endTime":1197.68,"body":"sometimes, (laughs) like"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1198.37,"endTime":1198.73,"body":"because..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1199.3,"endTime":1200.17,"body":"Yes, that has"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1199.3,"endTime":1200.17,"body":"happened. (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1200.0,"endTime":1207.26,"body":"So there's that,"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1200.0,"endTime":1207.26,"body":"but we hash it out, and we both"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1207.5,"endTime":1212.93,"body":"are willing to hash it out. So"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1207.5,"endTime":1212.93,"body":"it's been an experience that I r"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1212.93,"endTime":1222.62,"body":"ally like and I'm happy about"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1212.93,"endTime":1222.62,"body":"n the end. And I just, I mean"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1222.65,"endTime":1225.14,"body":"another thing I wanted t"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1222.65,"endTime":1225.14,"body":"mention about collaboration is"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1225.14,"endTime":1231.29,"body":"also had started working on thi"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1225.14,"endTime":1231.29,"body":"project that got slowed down"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1231.29,"endTime":1237.5,"body":"uring COVID, but this project i"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1231.29,"endTime":1237.5,"body":"with my partner, Andres. He"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1237.5,"endTime":1241.22,"body":"s also a photographer and an ar"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1237.5,"endTime":1241.22,"body":"ist and so that kind of collabor"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1241.22,"endTime":1247.46,"body":"tion is different than a co"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1241.22,"endTime":1247.46,"body":"laboration with the subject."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1249.84,"endTime":1251.07,"body":"Yeah, yes, yes,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1249.84,"endTime":1251.07,"body":"yes."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1251.0,"endTime":1253.7,"body":"You're playing"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1251.0,"endTime":1253.7,"body":"different roles. But with him,"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1253.7,"endTime":1258.74,"body":"it's like, a battle. Like, we're"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1253.7,"endTime":1258.74,"body":"working side by side. And we"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1258.74,"endTime":1265.64,"body":"it's a total battle. And all"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1258.74,"endTime":1265.64,"body":"these power questions, because"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1265.64,"endTime":1269.12,"body":"we're making these pictures side"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1265.64,"endTime":1269.12,"body":"by side of the same thing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1269.0,"endTime":1272.81,"body":"Do you two have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1269.0,"endTime":1272.81,"body":"a similar style?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1269.15,"endTime":1269.54,"body":"and...."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1273.65,"endTime":1279.53,"body":"Well, we're using a similar"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1273.65,"endTime":1279.53,"body":"style for the subject. So we're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1279.53,"endTime":1288.17,"body":"using the same camera, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1279.53,"endTime":1288.17,"body":"lighting and lens, mostly. So"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1288.17,"endTime":1291.74,"body":"the pictures look the same. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1288.17,"endTime":1291.74,"body":"it ends up being this battle"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1291.74,"endTime":1296.06,"body":"about who's... because one"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1291.74,"endTime":1296.06,"body":"person gets in the position"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1296.06,"endTime":1303.8,"body":"where they're making good"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1296.06,"endTime":1303.8,"body":"pictures, and the other person's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1303.8,"endTime":1308.27,"body":"on the other side, feeling"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1303.8,"endTime":1308.27,"body":"really frustrated. And then it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1308.51,"endTime":1309.77,"body":"shifts back and forth."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1309.83,"endTime":1314.33,"body":"Yeah, I think this is a very"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1309.83,"endTime":1314.33,"body":"brave project to do with your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1314.33,"endTime":1314.96,"body":"partner."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1315.5,"endTime":1317.96,"body":"It's probably"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1315.5,"endTime":1317.96,"body":"good that we had a year off."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1318.62,"endTime":1323.72,"body":"Right? (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1318.62,"endTime":1323.72,"body":"Yeah, it really feels like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1323.72,"endTime":1329.69,"body":"survivor. (both laugh)"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1331.25,"endTime":1335.45,"body":"Will you also say, you're also"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1331.25,"endTime":1335.45,"body":"part of the Magnum Live Lab in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1335.45,"endTime":1339.68,"body":"Atlanta's High Museum, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1335.45,"endTime":1339.68,"body":"in Atlanta. And then it got put"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1339.68,"endTime":1343.43,"body":"on hold due to COVID. And I saw"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1339.68,"endTime":1343.43,"body":"a video where you showed your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1343.46,"endTime":1347.66,"body":"work-in-progress quilt that you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1343.46,"endTime":1347.66,"body":"were able to work on back home"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1347.66,"endTime":1352.55,"body":"from your studio. And the front"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1347.66,"endTime":1352.55,"body":"had James Baldwin's article"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1352.58,"endTime":1357.77,"body":"about the Atlanta child murders."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1352.58,"endTime":1357.77,"body":"And, and then over these"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1357.77,"endTime":1360.74,"body":"advertised it was originally"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1357.77,"endTime":1360.74,"body":"published in Playboy, so I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1360.74,"endTime":1363.2,"body":"telling you what you already"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1360.74,"endTime":1363.2,"body":"know. But, so over the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1363.2,"endTime":1367.73,"body":"advertising images promoting"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1363.2,"endTime":1367.73,"body":"this ideal white masculinity,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1367.76,"endTime":1370.73,"body":"and then the back had more"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1367.76,"endTime":1370.73,"body":"advertising images. And in the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1370.73,"endTime":1373.46,"body":"video, you said you expected"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1370.73,"endTime":1373.46,"body":"that it would continue to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1373.46,"endTime":1377.96,"body":"evolve? And so I'm just curious,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1373.46,"endTime":1377.96,"body":"like, has the work continued to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1378.14,"endTime":1382.31,"body":"evolve? Or do you kind of put it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1378.14,"endTime":1382.31,"body":"to the side until you can come"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1382.31,"endTime":1384.5,"body":"back and continue in Atlanta?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1384.69,"endTime":1389.61,"body":"Um, it's funny, because I had"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1384.69,"endTime":1389.61,"body":"put that in the drawer for a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1389.61,"endTime":1394.32,"body":"while, but I just brought out"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1389.61,"endTime":1394.32,"body":"James Baldwin's book yesterday."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1396.0,"endTime":1401.55,"body":"And I was reading it again, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1396.0,"endTime":1401.55,"body":"what I thought was, Man, this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1401.55,"endTime":1404.76,"body":"text is very difficult."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1407.34,"endTime":1410.94,"body":"As in, like, difficult subject"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1407.34,"endTime":1410.94,"body":"matter, or difficult, dense?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1411.5,"endTime":1421.37,"body":"Both. It's dense, and his brain"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1411.5,"endTime":1421.37,"body":"is very deep, and he just goes"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1421.37,"endTime":1425.15,"body":"on tangents and, and expresses"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1421.37,"endTime":1425.15,"body":"himself, and it's like, all"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1425.15,"endTime":1431.39,"body":"these deep ideas, but it's also"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1425.15,"endTime":1431.39,"body":"his emotions. And I, what I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1431.39,"endTime":1435.02,"body":"wanted to do in order to like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1431.39,"endTime":1435.02,"body":"develop that project further is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1435.8,"endTime":1441.41,"body":"pull imagery from what he talks"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1435.8,"endTime":1441.41,"body":"about. Like he talks about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1444.59,"endTime":1456.26,"body":"structural racism in America."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1444.59,"endTime":1456.26,"body":"And and he talks about cultural"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1456.92,"endTime":1464.06,"body":"texts that have perpetuated"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1456.92,"endTime":1464.06,"body":"structural racism, so like Birth"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1464.06,"endTime":1467.9,"body":"of a Nation and Gone with the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1464.06,"endTime":1467.9,"body":"Wind and these films and, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1467.9,"endTime":1477.38,"body":"other aspects of, visual culture"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1467.9,"endTime":1477.38,"body":"that have, over time perpetuated"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1477.38,"endTime":1488.0,"body":"the racism that's slavery is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1477.38,"endTime":1488.0,"body":"founded on. So I felt like this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1488.0,"endTime":1491.0,"body":"is a really important thing to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1488.0,"endTime":1491.0,"body":"like, look at in terms of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1491.0,"endTime":1500.15,"body":"Atlanta's Atlanta and tried to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1491.0,"endTime":1500.15,"body":"represent it and not that my"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1500.18,"endTime":1503.3,"body":"role is going to be to represent"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1500.18,"endTime":1503.3,"body":"Atlanta but to respond to it, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1503.3,"endTime":1509.78,"body":"guess. And so I wanted to work"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1503.3,"endTime":1509.78,"body":"with some of the visual"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1509.78,"endTime":1514.46,"body":"references that he writes about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1509.78,"endTime":1514.46,"body":"and see if I can kind of do some"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1514.46,"endTime":1526.58,"body":"collage like quilting. Um, but"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1514.46,"endTime":1526.58,"body":"right now I think I really want"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1526.58,"endTime":1533.24,"body":"to just go out, get out of my"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1526.58,"endTime":1533.24,"body":"studio and that long, drawn out"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1533.27,"endTime":1542.39,"body":"process of quilting, and just"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1533.27,"endTime":1542.39,"body":"work with other people outside"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1542.42,"endTime":1546.89,"body":"and with the camera. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1542.42,"endTime":1546.89,"body":"actually, my return to Atlanta"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1546.89,"endTime":1551.84,"body":"might be pushed back because of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1546.89,"endTime":1551.84,"body":"COVID. And some of the people"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1551.84,"endTime":1555.5,"body":"who are participating in the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1551.84,"endTime":1555.5,"body":"Live Lab might not be vaccinated"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1556.31,"endTime":1560.66,"body":"before September, when we were"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1556.31,"endTime":1560.66,"body":"going to do it. So we're talking"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1560.66,"endTime":1566.93,"body":"about that right now. But um,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1560.66,"endTime":1566.93,"body":"you know, usually when I go make"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1566.93,"endTime":1572.6,"body":"work in a place, I'm in the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1566.93,"endTime":1572.6,"body":"place, experiencing it and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1572.6,"endTime":1576.41,"body":"living life for a while before I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1572.6,"endTime":1576.41,"body":"figure out what I'm what kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1576.41,"endTime":1577.7,"body":"work I'm going to make there."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1576.41,"endTime":1577.7,"body":"So...."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1577.7,"endTime":1580.16,"body":"Right, this is a different"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1577.7,"endTime":1580.16,"body":"format for sure."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1580.16,"endTime":1581.63,"body":"Yeah, totally"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1580.16,"endTime":1581.63,"body":"different."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1582.5,"endTime":1585.26,"body":"What do you feel"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1582.5,"endTime":1585.26,"body":"just, you know, looking back"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1585.26,"endTime":1590.99,"body":"through what you've done, what"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1585.26,"endTime":1590.99,"body":"was the best decision you made,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1590.99,"endTime":1594.44,"body":"or maybe, you know, if not the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1590.99,"endTime":1594.44,"body":"best, like some really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1594.44,"endTime":1598.7,"body":"fortuitous turning point, or,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1594.44,"endTime":1598.7,"body":"you know, something that pointed"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1598.7,"endTime":1601.22,"body":"you in a direction that you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1598.7,"endTime":1601.22,"body":"really thankful for?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1601.69,"endTime":1611.32,"body":"The best decision I made was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1601.69,"endTime":1611.32,"body":"probably leaving New York. I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1611.32,"endTime":1616.81,"body":"mean, I don't want to say the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1611.32,"endTime":1616.81,"body":"grad school experience I had in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1616.81,"endTime":1620.44,"body":"Ohio was ideal. Like, I might"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1616.81,"endTime":1620.44,"body":"have chosen a different place,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1620.47,"endTime":1631.48,"body":"but it I think leaving New York"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1620.47,"endTime":1631.48,"body":"somehow freed me to just be"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1631.48,"endTime":1639.52,"body":"myself, rather than play the New"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1631.48,"endTime":1639.52,"body":"York game. And I needed to do"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1639.52,"endTime":1642.28,"body":"that in order to kind of like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1639.52,"endTime":1642.28,"body":"move forward with whatever"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1642.28,"endTime":1647.23,"body":"creative life I wanted to build."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1642.28,"endTime":1647.23,"body":"But that decision was also like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1647.23,"endTime":1652.81,"body":"choosing photography. So leaving"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1647.23,"endTime":1652.81,"body":"was like, I left...,New York is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1652.81,"endTime":1657.13,"body":"like a life. Like, I have New"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1652.81,"endTime":1657.13,"body":"York and then I have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1657.13,"endTime":1663.1,"body":"photography. So that was like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1657.13,"endTime":1663.1,"body":"the biggest decision and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1663.13,"endTime":1664.24,"body":"probably the best."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1665.24,"endTime":1668.9,"body":"Are there any things that you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1665.24,"endTime":1668.9,"body":"can think of that were that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1668.9,"endTime":1672.35,"body":"maybe felt like a wrong turn at"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1668.9,"endTime":1672.35,"body":"the time whether you learned,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1672.38,"endTime":1675.83,"body":"you know, ultimately, these"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1672.38,"endTime":1675.83,"body":"things you know, everything"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1675.83,"endTime":1679.19,"body":"happens for a reason but"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1675.83,"endTime":1679.19,"body":"anything that kind of in the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1679.19,"endTime":1682.46,"body":"moment you were like this this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1679.19,"endTime":1682.46,"body":"wasn't the right move?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1689.41,"endTime":1692.71,"body":"Maybe it's gonna be the the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1689.41,"endTime":1692.71,"body":"photo battle with your partner?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1692.71,"endTime":1694.69,"body":"(both laugh)"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1694.6,"endTime":1697.9,"body":"That one hasn't"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1694.6,"endTime":1697.9,"body":"panned out yet, so I can't give"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1697.9,"endTime":1703.45,"body":"you the final answer. (both"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1697.9,"endTime":1703.45,"body":"laugh) But, um, there are times"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1703.45,"endTime":1708.37,"body":"when I wonder if doing this"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1703.45,"endTime":1708.37,"body":"project is gonna cause the end"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1708.4,"endTime":1713.92,"body":"of the relationship (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1708.4,"endTime":1713.92,"body":"but...um, you know, there's a"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1713.92,"endTime":1718.51,"body":"lot of mistakes I've made. I"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1713.92,"endTime":1718.51,"body":"don't know which one is the"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1718.51,"endTime":1724.36,"body":"worst, but um, and I think"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1718.51,"endTime":1724.36,"body":"especially on a podcast where"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1724.36,"endTime":1729.37,"body":"I'm trying to, I don't want to"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1724.36,"endTime":1729.37,"body":"like self-deprecate too much. I"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1729.37,"endTime":1733.36,"body":"think I'd like to see the"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1729.37,"endTime":1733.36,"body":"mistakes as learning, like part"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1733.36,"endTime":1737.35,"body":"of the learning process, and"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1733.36,"endTime":1737.35,"body":"part of the success of like,"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1737.62,"endTime":1746.11,"body":"making art is is making"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1737.62,"endTime":1746.11,"body":"mistakes, and the mistakes turn"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1746.11,"endTime":1753.61,"body":"into other things. So for"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1746.11,"endTime":1753.61,"body":"example, like I started"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1753.61,"endTime":1760.54,"body":"quilting, and I'm glad I'm doing"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1753.61,"endTime":1760.54,"body":"those quilts. I don't know what"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1760.54,"endTime":1768.28,"body":"their future is, but if I hadn't"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1760.54,"endTime":1768.28,"body":"started making those, this"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1768.28,"endTime":1770.17,"body":"project that I've been doing"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1768.28,"endTime":1770.17,"body":"over the last year in my"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1770.17,"endTime":1772.78,"body":"backyard wouldn't have happened"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1770.17,"endTime":1772.78,"body":"because I used a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1772.78,"endTime":1777.67,"body":"materials and my my comfort that"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1772.78,"endTime":1777.67,"body":"I had developed with like"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1777.67,"endTime":1785.65,"body":"creating was brought into this"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1777.67,"endTime":1785.65,"body":"photo project in my backyard. So"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1787.99,"endTime":1792.97,"body":"if the quilts, you know, I don't"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1787.99,"endTime":1792.97,"body":"know how far my quilts are gonna"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1792.97,"endTime":1800.74,"body":"evolve, but this backyard"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1792.97,"endTime":1800.74,"body":"project came out of it. So I"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1800.74,"endTime":1806.44,"body":"like to see various decisions as"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1800.74,"endTime":1806.44,"body":"just part of the path rather"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1806.44,"endTime":1812.44,"body":"than the word failure and"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1806.44,"endTime":1812.44,"body":"success is so loaded, it's so"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1812.44,"endTime":1819.52,"body":"tied up in, like our American,"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1812.44,"endTime":1819.52,"body":"like, greedy capitalism."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1822.45,"endTime":1827.94,"body":"Totally. What"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1822.45,"endTime":1827.94,"body":"would you say is your barometer,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1827.94,"endTime":1832.11,"body":"for lack of a better word,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1827.94,"endTime":1832.11,"body":"success in photography, like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1832.11,"endTime":1836.88,"body":"just you personally? Do you feel"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1832.11,"endTime":1836.88,"body":"like, you know what needs to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1836.88,"endTime":1841.08,"body":"happen or has it already"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1836.88,"endTime":1841.08,"body":"happened? I feel like you're in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1841.08,"endTime":1845.37,"body":"a good place with it, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1841.08,"endTime":1845.37,"body":"like you're doing what you need"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1845.37,"endTime":1847.62,"body":"to be doing, you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1845.37,"endTime":1847.62,"body":"accomplishing whatever it is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1847.62,"endTime":1849.42,"body":"that you've set out to do."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1851.22,"endTime":1856.44,"body":"I think, um, if I"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1851.22,"endTime":1856.44,"body":"could ensure I would always have"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1856.44,"endTime":1862.77,"body":"funding to keep putting in the"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1856.44,"endTime":1862.77,"body":"time to let my works evolve and"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1862.77,"endTime":1866.37,"body":"develop independently, that"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1862.77,"endTime":1866.37,"body":"would be the ideal place to be."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1867.06,"endTime":1873.21,"body":"To have enough funding that I"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1867.06,"endTime":1873.21,"body":"can do what I want. And, and"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1874.74,"endTime":1878.73,"body":"assuming that if I keep doing"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1874.74,"endTime":1878.73,"body":"what I want, I'll have chances"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1878.76,"endTime":1883.35,"body":"to share that work broadly in"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1878.76,"endTime":1883.35,"body":"the world. I mean, I like to be"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1883.35,"endTime":1888.93,"body":"able to share my work, and not"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1883.35,"endTime":1888.93,"body":"just keep it hidden. So those"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1888.93,"endTime":1889.83,"body":"are two things."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1890.66,"endTime":1895.49,"body":"Those are two"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1890.66,"endTime":1895.49,"body":"really great things. And I hope"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1895.49,"endTime":1897.35,"body":"that for you as well for all of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1895.49,"endTime":1897.35,"body":"us."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1903.21,"endTime":1906.69,"body":"Thank you for listening to the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1903.21,"endTime":1906.69,"body":"Perfect Bound podcast. If you'd"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1906.69,"endTime":1909.96,"body":"like to hear any past episodes,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1906.69,"endTime":1909.96,"body":"you can find them at the Yoffy"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1909.96,"endTime":1914.46,"body":"Press website. Yoffy Press dot"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1909.96,"endTime":1914.46,"body":"com slash podcasts. You can also"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1914.46,"endTime":1918.72,"body":"find this on any other podcast"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1914.46,"endTime":1918.72,"body":"streaming platform that you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1918.72,"endTime":1922.68,"body":"might use, like Spotify or Apple"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1918.72,"endTime":1922.68,"body":"podcasts. If you feel like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1922.68,"endTime":1926.16,"body":"rating it with lots of positive"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1922.68,"endTime":1926.16,"body":"stars, I would really appreciate"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1926.16,"endTime":1930.66,"body":"that, too. And I'm looking"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1926.16,"endTime":1930.66,"body":"forward to seeing you next time."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1930.69,"endTime":1931.23,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1938.23,"endTime":1945.58,"body":"When we were talking about Paul"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1938.23,"endTime":1945.58,"body":"Sheik, I was like, okay, it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1945.61,"endTime":1949.45,"body":"50/50 whether she's gonna say"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1945.61,"endTime":1949.45,"body":"that she wanted to work with him"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1949.45,"endTime":1953.26,"body":"because he's so talented, and he"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1949.45,"endTime":1953.26,"body":"makes great books or because he"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1953.26,"endTime":1954.31,"body":"has amazing hair."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1954.31,"endTime":1956.71,"body":"(laughs) You like"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1954.31,"endTime":1956.71,"body":"is hair?!"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1957.07,"endTime":1959.71,"body":"His hair is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1957.07,"endTime":1959.71,"body":"amazing. His wife is a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1959.8,"endTime":1963.07,"body":"hairstylist or whatever. So I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1959.8,"endTime":1963.07,"body":"mean, that helps, I think, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1963.07,"endTime":1966.97,"body":"know, having it in home, but"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1963.07,"endTime":1966.97,"body":"yes, he has amazing hair."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1967.03,"endTime":1970.3,"body":"I can tell you"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1967.03,"endTime":1970.3,"body":"something, um, he and his wife"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1970.33,"endTime":1973.3,"body":"collect work about hair."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1973.75,"endTime":1974.59,"body":"No!?!"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1974.285,"endTime":1978.527,"body":"And I've been..."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1974.285,"endTime":1978.527,"body":"look at my hair. (both laugh) So"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1978.614,"endTime":1983.895,"body":"I've been talking to him a lot"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1978.614,"endTime":1983.895,"body":"over the last year about hair."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1983.982,"endTime":1989.177,"body":"And I mean, that sounds weird,"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":1983.982,"endTime":1989.177,"body":"but.... (both laugh) But, um,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1984.41,"endTime":2001.63,"body":"I feel like it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1984.41,"endTime":2001.63,"body":"would be a transformation. You"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1989.264,"endTime":1994.632,"body":"well.... I've been talking to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1989.264,"endTime":1994.632,"body":"him about how I want his wife to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1994.719,"endTime":1998.269,"body":"cut my hair. And, and then eventually...."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2001.63,"endTime":2005.32,"body":"know, I can just like imagine if"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2001.63,"endTime":2005.32,"body":"she cut my hair, I would just"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2005.32,"endTime":2007.51,"body":"come out looking like a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2005.32,"endTime":2007.51,"body":"supermodel. I don't know."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":2007.54,"endTime":2009.25,"body":"Well, you should."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":2007.54,"endTime":2009.25,"body":"You should do it."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2009.37,"endTime":2010.84,"body":"Yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":2010.93,"endTime":2012.49,"body":"You must be"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":2010.93,"endTime":2012.49,"body":"vaccinated."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2012.75,"endTime":2015.54,"body":"I am. I am. I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2012.75,"endTime":2015.54,"body":"ready for a haircut in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2015.54,"endTime":2016.29,"body":"California."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":2016.41,"endTime":2017.31,"body":"Take the risk."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2018.42,"endTime":2019.98,"body":"So you want her"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2018.42,"endTime":2019.98,"body":"to cut your hair?"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":2020.58,"endTime":2023.16,"body":"I do. Especially"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":2020.58,"endTime":2023.16,"body":"now that I cut my own hair for"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":2023.16,"endTime":2027.54,"body":"the camera. It looks pretty"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":2023.16,"endTime":2027.54,"body":"nasty. So I sent a picture to"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":2027.54,"endTime":2031.35,"body":"Paul and he thought it looked"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":2027.54,"endTime":2031.35,"body":"punk. I don't know if used the"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":2031.35,"endTime":2036.18,"body":"word punk, but I think that's"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":2031.35,"endTime":2036.18,"body":"what he meant. Like a shag head."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":2036.18,"endTime":2036.21,"body":"(laughs)"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2037.32,"endTime":2038.7,"body":"We can get them"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2037.32,"endTime":2038.7,"body":"together."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":2038.73,"endTime":2041.19,"body":"Yeah, let's do"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":2038.73,"endTime":2041.19,"body":"it. I'm serious."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2041.22,"endTime":2044.25,"body":"Yeah, I can't do"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2041.22,"endTime":2044.25,"body":"short because my face is too"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2044.25,"endTime":2046.17,"body":"round. So you're gonna have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2044.25,"endTime":2046.17,"body":"to..., well, we don't have to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2046.17,"endTime":2049.83,"body":"have matching haircuts. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2046.17,"endTime":2049.83,"body":"that doesn't make sense. We can"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2049.83,"endTime":2051.18,"body":"just do it at the same time."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":2051.25,"endTime":2052.18,"body":"Right, right,"},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":2051.25,"endTime":2052.18,"body":"right."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2052.23,"endTime":2055.11,"body":"And then we'll"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2052.23,"endTime":2055.11,"body":"get to really have a sense of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2055.11,"endTime":2058.38,"body":"how good her vision is, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2055.11,"endTime":2058.38,"body":"know, like what she sees for me"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2058.38,"endTime":2059.46,"body":"versus what she sees for you."},{"speaker":"Carolyn Drake","startTime":2059.46,"endTime":2060.9,"body":"Yeah, yeah."}]}