{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":6.81,"endTime":8.7,"body":"Welcome to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":6.81,"endTime":8.7,"body":"Perfect Bound. I'm Jennifer"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":8.73,"endTime":11.46,"body":"Yoffy, the ounder and publisher"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":8.73,"endTime":11.46,"body":"of Yoffy Press in Atlanta,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":11.46,"endTime":14.85,"body":"Georgia. This is a podcast where"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":11.46,"endTime":14.85,"body":"we talk to artists about their"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":14.85,"endTime":18.21,"body":"journey, how they got where they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":14.85,"endTime":18.21,"body":"are, what right and wrong turns"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":18.21,"endTime":20.58,"body":"they made along the way, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":18.21,"endTime":20.58,"body":"where they're heading next."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":27.26,"endTime":30.26,"body":"Louie Palu is a documentary"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":27.26,"endTime":30.26,"body":"photographer and filmmaker whose"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":30.26,"endTime":33.83,"body":"work focuses on social political"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":30.26,"endTime":33.83,"body":"issues such as war, human rights"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":33.83,"endTime":36.56,"body":"and poverty. His work has"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":33.83,"endTime":36.56,"body":"appeared in festivals,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":36.56,"endTime":39.98,"body":"publications, exhibitions and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":36.56,"endTime":39.98,"body":"collections internationally."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":40.28,"endTime":45.23,"body":"He's a 2016-2017 John Simon"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":40.28,"endTime":45.23,"body":"Guggenheim Foundation Fellow and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":45.23,"endTime":48.14,"body":"a Harry Ransom Center Research"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":45.23,"endTime":48.14,"body":"Fellow in the Humanities at the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":48.14,"endTime":52.67,"body":"University of Texas at Austin."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":48.14,"endTime":52.67,"body":"He is the recipient of numerous"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":52.67,"endTime":56.21,"body":"awards, and he is well known for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":52.67,"endTime":56.21,"body":"his work which examines social"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":56.21,"endTime":59.33,"body":"political issues such as human"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":56.21,"endTime":59.33,"body":"rights, conflict and poverty."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":59.84,"endTime":62.45,"body":"He's currently working on a long"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":59.84,"endTime":62.45,"body":"term project in the Arctic"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":62.45,"endTime":65.18,"body":"partnered with the National"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":62.45,"endTime":65.18,"body":"Geographic magazine, National"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":65.18,"endTime":69.41,"body":"Geographic Society, and is a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":65.18,"endTime":69.41,"body":"National Geographic Explorer. In"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":69.41,"endTime":72.83,"body":"2019, his work was selected for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":69.41,"endTime":72.83,"body":"the Arnold Newman prize for new"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":72.83,"endTime":76.88,"body":"directions in photographic"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":72.83,"endTime":76.88,"body":"portraiture. He also has"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":76.88,"endTime":79.97,"body":"published two books with Yoffy"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":76.88,"endTime":79.97,"body":"Press, Front Towards Enemy and a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":79.97,"endTime":84.35,"body":"Field Guide to Asbestos. Please"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":79.97,"endTime":84.35,"body":"welcome my good friend, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":84.38,"endTime":87.5,"body":"awesome photographer, Louie"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":84.38,"endTime":87.5,"body":"Palu, to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":98.16,"endTime":102.99,"body":"You usually work somewhere else,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":98.16,"endTime":102.99,"body":"you know, Afghanistan, or the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":102.99,"endTime":106.98,"body":"Arctic or whatever. And then,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":102.99,"endTime":106.98,"body":"you know, COVID, and you are"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":106.98,"endTime":111.54,"body":"back home in DC. And lo and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":106.98,"endTime":111.54,"body":"behold, like, the craziest stuff"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":111.75,"endTime":114.63,"body":"is happening there. And you're,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":111.75,"endTime":114.63,"body":"you're right in the middle. So"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":115.41,"endTime":118.14,"body":"was that like fortuitous? I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":115.41,"endTime":118.14,"body":"mean, did you feel like really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":118.14,"endTime":122.28,"body":"fortunate that you were able to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":118.14,"endTime":122.28,"body":"continue to work? I mean, the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":122.28,"endTime":125.55,"body":"circumstances, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":122.28,"endTime":125.55,"body":"reasons that you had something"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":125.55,"endTime":128.67,"body":"to photograph were pretty"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":125.55,"endTime":128.67,"body":"ridiculous. But..."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":128.66,"endTime":132.32,"body":"Yeah, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":128.66,"endTime":132.32,"body":"think the great thing about"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":128.66,"endTime":265.37,"body":"Yeah, everything came to a head,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":128.66,"endTime":265.37,"body":"you know. I feel like an"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":132.32,"endTime":135.89,"body":"Chloe being my partner is tha"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":132.32,"endTime":135.89,"body":"she's not only a photo editor"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":135.89,"endTime":140.03,"body":"who works with visuals, and the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":135.89,"endTime":140.03,"body":"kind of photography that I do"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":140.33,"endTime":144.26,"body":"with a lot of photographers all"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":140.33,"endTime":144.26,"body":"over the world. 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And when the pandemic hi"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":231.65,"endTime":236.06,"body":", they went on a recess. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":231.65,"endTime":236.06,"body":"that doesn't mean they we"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":236.06,"endTime":239.09,"body":"en't still doing what they do."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":236.06,"endTime":239.09,"body":"ut there was, no one was, nob"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":239.09,"endTime":242.72,"body":"dy was all together in the sam"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":239.09,"endTime":242.72,"body":"place doing what what we're use"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":242.72,"endTime":245.54,"body":"to government doing. A"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":242.72,"endTime":245.54,"body":"d I consider that a pretty serio"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":245.54,"endTime":250.01,"body":"s crisis. So, you know, Washi"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":245.54,"endTime":250.01,"body":"gton, DC is a really unique spac"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":250.01,"endTime":255.11,"body":"because it's the space with whi"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":250.01,"endTime":255.11,"body":"h the whole country sort of lo"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":255.11,"endTime":260.6,"body":"ks to to air their grievances a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":255.11,"endTime":260.6,"body":"d differences and or, or champi"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":260.75,"endTime":266.12,"body":"n, you know, their accomplishm"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":260.75,"endTime":266.12,"body":"nts. And I thought, Okay, I'"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":266.12,"endTime":270.95,"body":"going to walk, the capital is f"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":266.12,"endTime":270.95,"body":"ur miles from here, I can wal"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":270.95,"endTime":273.05,"body":"there in an hour and the White"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":270.95,"endTime":273.05,"body":"House is maybe 45 minutes. So"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":273.05,"endTime":276.62,"body":"I just started walking the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":273.05,"endTime":276.62,"body":"treets and in some ways, it was"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":276.44,"endTime":333.68,"body":"interest... I mean, it's been a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":276.44,"endTime":333.68,"body":"fascinating time. But I think"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":276.62,"endTime":280.52,"body":"this microcosm, symbolic"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":276.62,"endTime":280.52,"body":"f the whole country. Because the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":280.52,"endTime":284.84,"body":"homeless were out on the stre"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":280.52,"endTime":284.84,"body":"ts and they didn't have masks"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":284.84,"endTime":289.34,"body":"none of us had masks. And you"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":284.84,"endTime":289.34,"body":"ind of got a you..., I was remin"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":289.37,"endTime":293.54,"body":"ed that there's, there are r"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":289.37,"endTime":293.54,"body":"al issues that are small in th"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":293.54,"endTime":296.93,"body":"grand scheme of things but"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":293.54,"endTime":296.93,"body":"re very important for us to m"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":296.93,"endTime":299.6,"body":"ke documents of like what were h"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":296.93,"endTime":299.6,"body":"ppening to homeless people. The"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":299.6,"endTime":301.85,"body":"e's a very large homeless po"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":299.6,"endTime":301.85,"body":"ulation here, like every Ameri"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":301.85,"endTime":305.54,"body":"an city. Where were the politic"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":301.85,"endTime":305.54,"body":"ans? What were they talking abo"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":305.54,"endTime":307.76,"body":"t? What were they believing a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":305.54,"endTime":307.76,"body":"d not believing? What were.."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":307.76,"endTime":313.31,"body":"? What was the plan? And so,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":307.76,"endTime":313.31,"body":"after six weeks, the governmen"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":313.31,"endTime":317.9,"body":"came back. And, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":313.31,"endTime":317.9,"body":"lready had a political sit"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":317.9,"endTime":323.18,"body":"ation, which was very, I don't"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":317.9,"endTime":323.18,"body":"even know what word to use.."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":323.18,"endTime":329.06,"body":", fraught. Nothing captures."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":323.18,"endTime":329.06,"body":"And then it just this, we usuall"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":330.26,"endTime":333.8,"body":"feel like we've we, we read t"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":330.26,"endTime":333.8,"body":"ese things in textbooks"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":333.8,"endTime":338.96,"body":"and it's like, Wow, what a ti"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":333.8,"endTime":338.96,"body":"e like 1968, or the Nixon era."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":338.96,"endTime":343.67,"body":"And then after the pandemi"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":338.96,"endTime":343.67,"body":"sort of became this nationa"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":343.7,"endTime":347.96,"body":"emergency, international emerge"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":343.7,"endTime":347.96,"body":"cy, this narrative unfold"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":347.96,"endTime":353.0,"body":"d, that was like, my traini"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":347.96,"endTime":353.0,"body":"g kicked in, it's like being"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":353.0,"endTime":356.15,"body":"ou know, I'm not saying it was"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":353.0,"endTime":356.15,"body":"a war zone here. I don't partic"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":356.18,"endTime":359.39,"body":"larly like people pointi"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":356.18,"endTime":359.39,"body":"g to the pandemic like it's a wa"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":359.39,"endTime":363.8,"body":"because there's political rhe"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":359.39,"endTime":363.8,"body":"oric people use for wars to cla"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":362.72,"endTime":437.3,"body":"for so much of so many of us in"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":362.72,"endTime":437.3,"body":"our lives, like so many things,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":363.8,"endTime":369.5,"body":"m and take power of things, or"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":363.8,"endTime":369.5,"body":"o control messaging, like, it'"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":369.5,"endTime":372.17,"body":", it's emergency, and if you don"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":369.5,"endTime":372.17,"body":"t follow it, then you're a tra"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":372.17,"endTime":379.73,"body":"tor. 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And yea"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":465.23,"endTime":471.77,"body":", I mean, I think a lot of thin"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":471.77,"endTime":475.88,"body":"s came to a head that have, h"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":471.77,"endTime":475.88,"body":"pefully will, you know, continu"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":475.88,"endTime":477.56,"body":"to push us in the right directi"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":477.57,"endTime":480.48,"body":"You know, I really felt like,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":477.57,"endTime":480.48,"body":"with everything, you're talking"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":480.48,"endTime":487.26,"body":"about it in terms of an example"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":480.48,"endTime":487.26,"body":"of what I'm trained for, what"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":487.26,"endTime":490.8,"body":"I'm really best at, how I as a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":487.26,"endTime":490.8,"body":"photographer, have most"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":490.8,"endTime":495.66,"body":"effective is our book Front"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":490.8,"endTime":495.66,"body":"Towards Enemy. I mean, you know,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":495.66,"endTime":500.22,"body":"that that Rebecca Senf essay,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":495.66,"endTime":500.22,"body":"where she talks about how the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":500.22,"endTime":504.78,"body":"President can message directly"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":500.22,"endTime":504.78,"body":"to an audience, and how, you"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":504.78,"endTime":508.05,"body":"know, it's about shaping"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":504.78,"endTime":508.05,"body":"narratives. You know, as much as"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":508.05,"endTime":511.41,"body":"those are photographs, as we"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":508.05,"endTime":511.41,"body":"both know, for the audience who"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":511.41,"endTime":516.42,"body":"may not, you can re edit the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":511.41,"endTime":516.42,"body":"book, and you can change the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":516.42,"endTime":520.35,"body":"narrative of the war in"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":516.42,"endTime":520.35,"body":"Afghanistan. And that really is"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":520.41,"endTime":522.87,"body":"as much as their photographs"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":520.41,"endTime":522.87,"body":"literally, of Afghanistan, which"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":522.87,"endTime":527.07,"body":"it serves that purpose. The book"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":522.87,"endTime":527.07,"body":"is really about, it's about"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":527.07,"endTime":529.59,"body":"deconstruction. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":527.07,"endTime":529.59,"body":"this is a theme that I'm really"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":529.59,"endTime":534.15,"body":"working on these days, is sort"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":529.59,"endTime":534.15,"body":"of this, this, this work as an"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":534.15,"endTime":537.96,"body":"artist or on deconstructionism,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":534.15,"endTime":537.96,"body":"and, and it really is about"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":537.96,"endTime":542.01,"body":"narratives. And just being a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":537.96,"endTime":542.01,"body":"photographer on the streets, you"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":542.01,"endTime":544.65,"body":"know, I'm very well aware of it,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":542.01,"endTime":544.65,"body":"like how I photograph who's"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":544.65,"endTime":548.01,"body":"doing what, but it's not only"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":544.65,"endTime":548.01,"body":"what I take photographs of, and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":548.01,"endTime":551.73,"body":"this is something a lot of"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":548.01,"endTime":551.73,"body":"listeners I think need to focus"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":551.73,"endTime":556.35,"body":"on is the role of editing and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":551.73,"endTime":556.35,"body":"sequencing. Just because I take"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":556.35,"endTime":558.3,"body":"the photograph, that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":556.35,"endTime":558.3,"body":"mean I'm actually going to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":558.3,"endTime":561.33,"body":"publish that photograph. There"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":558.3,"endTime":561.33,"body":"are too many things going on,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":561.45,"endTime":565.74,"body":"for me to decide what I am and I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":561.45,"endTime":565.74,"body":"am not going to lose, not lose,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":565.77,"endTime":572.7,"body":"use - use I mean, sorry. And I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":565.77,"endTime":572.7,"body":"think that it's not it's people"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":572.7,"endTime":576.69,"body":"only think of the taking. I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":572.7,"endTime":576.69,"body":"mean, it is a much more complex"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":576.69,"endTime":579.69,"body":"process. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":576.69,"endTime":579.69,"body":"authorship is really, really"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":579.69,"endTime":584.55,"body":"important and commitment and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":579.69,"endTime":584.55,"body":"originality and i think that you"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":584.55,"endTime":587.52,"body":"know, the great thing about"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":584.55,"endTime":587.52,"body":"verifying your information"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":587.52,"endTime":590.94,"body":"sources, or Who's that"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":587.52,"endTime":590.94,"body":"photographer over there working"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":590.94,"endTime":594.06,"body":"before you block their camera,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":590.94,"endTime":594.06,"body":"or claim that they're doing"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":594.06,"endTime":597.12,"body":"something is to understand who"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":594.06,"endTime":597.12,"body":"they are, and who they're"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":597.12,"endTime":600.12,"body":"working with and who they work"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":597.12,"endTime":600.12,"body":"for. And in the middle of a riot"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":600.36,"endTime":605.76,"body":"or a protest that's very, very"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":600.36,"endTime":605.76,"body":"complex to do. I had some"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":605.82,"endTime":611.31,"body":"conversations when I could, you"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":605.82,"endTime":611.31,"body":"know, but I think that we're"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":611.31,"endTime":612.66,"body":"definitely.... Sorry, go ahead."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":612.6,"endTime":615.39,"body":"Do you mean"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":612.6,"endTime":615.39,"body":"people on the other end of the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":615.39,"endTime":621.21,"body":"camera are blocking it, like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":615.39,"endTime":621.21,"body":"you're saying that, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":621.21,"endTime":624.93,"body":"know that you as a photographer,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":621.21,"endTime":624.93,"body":"and kind of professionally,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":624.93,"endTime":630.3,"body":"ethically, your belief system is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":624.93,"endTime":630.3,"body":"in line that, you know, you want"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":630.3,"endTime":639.03,"body":"to document what's happening"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":630.3,"endTime":639.03,"body":"without putting in your own spin"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":639.03,"endTime":642.96,"body":"or your own opinion on it. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":639.03,"endTime":642.96,"body":"so you're trying to create a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":642.96,"endTime":646.17,"body":"very even, and just"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":642.96,"endTime":646.17,"body":"straightforward, like, a not"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":646.17,"endTime":651.24,"body":"manipulated picture of what's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":646.17,"endTime":651.24,"body":"happening. But that that's not"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":651.24,"endTime":655.2,"body":"always the case, obviously, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":651.24,"endTime":655.2,"body":"people don't want their stories"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":655.23,"endTime":657.18,"body":"spawned in one direction or t"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":655.23,"endTime":657.18,"body":"e othe"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":657.63,"endTime":661.62,"body":"No, I, I agree, any"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":657.63,"endTime":661.62,"body":"protest I've covered in 31"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":661.62,"endTime":664.65,"body":"years, I've been a photographer,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":661.62,"endTime":664.65,"body":"people wonder, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":664.68,"endTime":668.25,"body":"who's this photographer, and I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":664.68,"endTime":668.25,"body":"do my best. And, and sort of,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":668.67,"endTime":671.55,"body":"when I say align myself, work"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":668.67,"endTime":671.55,"body":"with organizations who are"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":671.55,"endTime":675.48,"body":"respected, who are easily"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":671.55,"endTime":675.48,"body":"identifiable, like, so that when"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":675.48,"endTime":678.03,"body":"I'm in this moment, where I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":675.48,"endTime":678.03,"body":"don't have time to have an hour"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":678.03,"endTime":681.24,"body":"conversation, and there are"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":678.03,"endTime":681.24,"body":"rocks, flying and tear gas,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":681.27,"endTime":684.18,"body":"people get it, you know. There's"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":681.27,"endTime":684.18,"body":"sort of something bigger"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":684.18,"endTime":688.08,"body":"happening when we go into these,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":684.18,"endTime":688.08,"body":"these demonstrations. And that"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":688.08,"endTime":692.25,"body":"is what benefits everybody and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":688.08,"endTime":692.25,"body":"there needs to be a record of"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":692.25,"endTime":698.43,"body":"it. There needs to be a tool for"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":692.25,"endTime":698.43,"body":"our children to look back, you"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":698.43,"endTime":701.61,"body":"know, if there are no"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":698.43,"endTime":701.61,"body":"photographs, right? And if"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":701.61,"endTime":707.85,"body":"there's no diversity of opinion,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":701.61,"endTime":707.85,"body":"then really, you know, what will"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":707.85,"endTime":711.75,"body":"we be left with? To a degree"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":707.85,"endTime":711.75,"body":"when we look at, say, the second"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":711.75,"endTime":716.88,"body":"World War? Okay. I think that,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":711.75,"endTime":716.88,"body":"you know, it, there's, there's"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":716.88,"endTime":721.02,"body":"no doubting what Hitler was. So"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":716.88,"endTime":721.02,"body":"if Hitler were in power now,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":721.05,"endTime":723.39,"body":"should we not show photographs"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":721.05,"endTime":723.39,"body":"of him? Should I not be"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":723.39,"endTime":726.24,"body":"photographed? Like, I think of"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":723.39,"endTime":726.24,"body":"John Heartfield, who actually"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":726.27,"endTime":730.14,"body":"did collage, you know,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":726.27,"endTime":730.14,"body":"criticizing Hitler and the Nazi"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":730.14,"endTime":734.46,"body":"regime. Imagine if there are"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":730.14,"endTime":734.46,"body":"people like, Hey, you know, he's"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":734.46,"endTime":736.62,"body":"kind of rebuilding the country,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":734.46,"endTime":736.62,"body":"we shouldn't be, we shouldn't be"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":736.62,"endTime":739.92,"body":"criticizing him. So I think"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":736.62,"endTime":739.92,"body":"that, you know, I try and think"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":739.92,"endTime":743.73,"body":"of the 20s and the 30s, leading"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":739.92,"endTime":743.73,"body":"up to before the world really"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":743.73,"endTime":747.72,"body":"understood what he was, and sort"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":743.73,"endTime":747.72,"body":"of all the all the different"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":748.14,"endTime":752.34,"body":"views people were having, and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":748.14,"endTime":752.34,"body":"some were promoting what he is,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":752.34,"endTime":756.72,"body":"and then later on, it was"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":752.34,"endTime":756.72,"body":"revealed. I think that it's it's"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":757.23,"endTime":763.41,"body":"important that we are constantly"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":757.23,"endTime":763.41,"body":"evaluating the way (if we want"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":763.41,"endTime":767.73,"body":"to call) what I make cultural"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":763.41,"endTime":767.73,"body":"materials. But that's why I'm a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":767.73,"endTime":769.92,"body":"part of professional"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":767.73,"endTime":769.92,"body":"organizations. So I'm, I'm"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":769.92,"endTime":773.73,"body":"constantly questioning myself,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":769.92,"endTime":773.73,"body":"and I'm scrutinizing myself,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":773.73,"endTime":776.64,"body":"like, whether it's the National"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":773.73,"endTime":776.64,"body":"Press Photographers Association,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":776.91,"endTime":780.96,"body":"or the Society of Professional"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":776.91,"endTime":780.96,"body":"Journalists, because I am sort"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":780.96,"endTime":785.16,"body":"of making a pact, that I am part"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":780.96,"endTime":785.16,"body":"of an organization with a group"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":785.16,"endTime":788.37,"body":"of people that have a diverse"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":785.16,"endTime":788.37,"body":"group views, and they're looking"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":788.37,"endTime":790.71,"body":"at my work, I'm looking at their"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":788.37,"endTime":790.71,"body":"work, and we're constantly"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":790.71,"endTime":794.46,"body":"questioning ourselves, like,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":790.71,"endTime":794.46,"body":"first of all, what how are we"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":794.46,"endTime":797.19,"body":"doing things? What's going"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":794.46,"endTime":797.19,"body":"right? What's going wrong, and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":797.19,"endTime":800.31,"body":"let's, let's keep moving"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":797.19,"endTime":800.31,"body":"forward. And doing what we do."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":801.83,"endTime":804.98,"body":"A quote that you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":801.83,"endTime":804.98,"body":"have, or that I've read, where"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":804.98,"endTime":807.11,"body":"you said, \"I believe what I do"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":804.98,"endTime":807.11,"body":"is not a career, but a way of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":807.11,"endTime":810.47,"body":"life and a belief system.\" And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":807.11,"endTime":810.47,"body":"that really comes through with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":810.47,"endTime":815.0,"body":"everything that you're saying,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":810.47,"endTime":815.0,"body":"and just the value around making"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":815.0,"endTime":818.12,"body":"sure and holding yourself to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":815.0,"endTime":818.12,"body":"that standard of making sure"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":818.12,"endTime":822.86,"body":"that it's, you know, not biased"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":818.12,"endTime":822.86,"body":"in any way. And that, and I do"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":822.86,"endTime":825.8,"body":"think you make an important"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":822.86,"endTime":825.8,"body":"point that it's not just making"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":825.8,"endTime":829.55,"body":"the photograph. So there's a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":825.8,"endTime":829.55,"body":"whole piece of that where, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":829.55,"endTime":836.36,"body":"know, you have to take, like an"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":829.55,"endTime":836.36,"body":"egoic aspect out of it. Or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":836.36,"endTime":839.99,"body":"you're not trying to like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":836.36,"endTime":839.99,"body":"this will get a lot of eyeballs,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":839.99,"endTime":845.24,"body":"right, like because it's just"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":839.99,"endTime":845.24,"body":"it's so over the top, gory. So"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":845.24,"endTime":849.26,"body":"you're trying to take yourself"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":845.24,"endTime":849.26,"body":"and you're kind of personal,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":849.53,"endTime":853.22,"body":"whatever gain, you might get out"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":849.53,"endTime":853.22,"body":"of creating a sensationalized"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":853.22,"endTime":858.2,"body":"photo. So there's that aspect of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":853.22,"endTime":858.2,"body":"like, your choice in what you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":858.2,"endTime":861.53,"body":"photographing and how you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":858.2,"endTime":861.53,"body":"photographing it, or you being"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":861.53,"endTime":866.93,"body":"respectful to the subject, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":861.53,"endTime":866.93,"body":"to the scene that you're in. But"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":866.93,"endTime":870.44,"body":"then it's also, I mean, there's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":866.93,"endTime":870.44,"body":"also just a, I'm going to shoot"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":870.65,"endTime":873.56,"body":"as many things as I can right,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":870.65,"endTime":873.56,"body":"because I'm here and I've got to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":873.56,"endTime":877.7,"body":"get it all and then you come"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":873.56,"endTime":877.7,"body":"back, and you need to edit or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":877.7,"endTime":880.73,"body":"you need to work with an editor"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":877.7,"endTime":880.73,"body":"to make sure that what you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":880.73,"endTime":885.83,"body":"actually putting out in the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":880.73,"endTime":885.83,"body":"world that people will see"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":886.73,"endTime":890.12,"body":"continues with that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":886.73,"endTime":890.12,"body":"being unbiased and being"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":890.12,"endTime":894.8,"body":"straightforward and, and we all"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":890.12,"endTime":894.8,"body":"know I mean, depending on the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":894.8,"endTime":898.07,"body":"edit, you can tell a million"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":894.8,"endTime":898.07,"body":"different stories and you can"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":898.07,"endTime":901.04,"body":"tell them a million different"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":898.07,"endTime":901.04,"body":"ways and you've talked a lot"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":901.04,"endTime":905.45,"body":"about how important having a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":901.04,"endTime":905.45,"body":"photo editor is, which I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":905.45,"endTime":907.25,"body":"well, maybe that's why he"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":905.45,"endTime":907.25,"body":"married one. (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":908.66,"endTime":910.01,"body":"That just worked out"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":908.66,"endTime":910.01,"body":"in my favor."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":912.19,"endTime":914.32,"body":"This is so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":912.19,"endTime":914.32,"body":"important I need it in house."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":916.33,"endTime":921.49,"body":"But yeah, I do think that that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":916.33,"endTime":921.49,"body":"is a piece that that's not"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":921.49,"endTime":925.6,"body":"really well understood that what"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":921.49,"endTime":925.6,"body":"you do after is not just, here's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":925.6,"endTime":931.12,"body":"everything in my camera. But"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":925.6,"endTime":931.12,"body":"really being intentional about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":931.12,"endTime":936.58,"body":"what you allow to be put out in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":931.12,"endTime":936.58,"body":"the world. And something that is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":936.58,"endTime":941.86,"body":"pretty specific to your line of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":936.58,"endTime":941.86,"body":"photography versus like a fine"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":941.86,"endTime":945.4,"body":"art photographer who really is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":941.86,"endTime":945.4,"body":"their vision, their story, their"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":945.4,"endTime":947.35,"body":"narrative is however they want"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":945.4,"endTime":947.35,"body":"to make it."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":949.34,"endTime":955.04,"body":"No, I agree. And I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":949.34,"endTime":955.04,"body":"think that, you know, we will be"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":955.04,"endTime":959.9,"body":"strongest in the photo community"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":955.04,"endTime":959.9,"body":"if we allow, I mean, this is"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":959.96,"endTime":962.69,"body":"obviously I'm going to say this"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":959.96,"endTime":962.69,"body":"for the record, this excludes"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":962.69,"endTime":967.43,"body":"racism, and, and all the other"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":962.69,"endTime":967.43,"body":"prejudices that, you know, if"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":967.43,"endTime":969.89,"body":"you look at my work and read my"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":967.43,"endTime":969.89,"body":"bio, it's like really clear what"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":969.89,"endTime":974.3,"body":"my beliefs are, and what I think"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":969.89,"endTime":974.3,"body":"are the, you know, be a good pe"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":974.3,"endTime":979.28,"body":"son, you know, I think that but"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":974.3,"endTime":979.28,"body":"you know, I think it's impo"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":979.28,"endTime":982.28,"body":"tant that there isn't onl"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":979.28,"endTime":982.28,"body":"one narrative. You know"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":982.28,"endTime":984.92,"body":"the narrative that suits New"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":982.28,"endTime":984.92,"body":"York City isn't going to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":984.92,"endTime":988.31,"body":"suit Oklahoma, the narrative"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":984.92,"endTime":988.31,"body":"that suits Los Angeles is not"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":988.31,"endTime":992.3,"body":"oing to suit, you know, Mo"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":988.31,"endTime":992.3,"body":"cow, Russia, the history an"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":992.3,"endTime":996.68,"body":"the social political makeup of"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":992.3,"endTime":996.68,"body":"hese places is very, very diffe"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":996.86,"endTime":999.98,"body":"ent. So we have to accept"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":996.86,"endTime":999.98,"body":"to a degree, we're all working t"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":999.98,"endTime":1003.19,"body":"ward a greater good, but"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":999.98,"endTime":1003.19,"body":"that photography is, is what b"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1003.19,"endTime":1005.44,"body":"ings us together as a community"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1003.19,"endTime":1005.44,"body":"and that we can show all"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1005.44,"endTime":1009.37,"body":"hese different things to try and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1005.44,"endTime":1009.37,"body":"spur bigger conversations about"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1009.37,"endTime":1010.66,"body":"hese bigger ideas in the w"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1011.59,"endTime":1012.43,"body":"Well said!"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1013.27,"endTime":1014.62,"body":"I have notes, I have"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1013.27,"endTime":1014.62,"body":"notes over here."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1014.41,"endTime":1017.68,"body":"I was thinking"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1014.41,"endTime":1017.68,"body":"about how you have photographed"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1017.68,"endTime":1021.94,"body":"in some really challenging"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1017.68,"endTime":1021.94,"body":"conditions. So I mean, we've"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1021.94,"endTime":1026.59,"body":"just been talking about COVID"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1021.94,"endTime":1026.59,"body":"pandemic, DC riots, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1026.59,"endTime":1033.34,"body":"all of that, but also"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1026.59,"endTime":1033.34,"body":"Afghanistan for years. And the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1033.34,"endTime":1037.78,"body":"Arctic, which I hear is real"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1033.34,"endTime":1037.78,"body":"cold. And, you know, so this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1037.78,"endTime":1040.09,"body":"kind of mine is being extreme,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1037.78,"endTime":1040.09,"body":"but also knowing, like this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1040.09,"endTime":1043.45,"body":"asbesto work that you've done,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1040.09,"endTime":1043.45,"body":"like I do, being close with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1043.45,"endTime":1047.35,"body":"people who are experiencing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1043.45,"endTime":1047.35,"body":"really, you know, such a brutal"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1047.35,"endTime":1052.96,"body":"and unfair disease. How do you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1047.35,"endTime":1052.96,"body":"prepare for these situations,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1052.96,"endTime":1056.02,"body":"like mentally, physically and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1052.96,"endTime":1056.02,"body":"emotionally?"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1059.85,"endTime":1062.01,"body":"Well, I think that"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1059.85,"endTime":1062.01,"body":"that's evolved and changed over"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1062.01,"endTime":1068.13,"body":"the years. You know, you want to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1062.01,"endTime":1068.13,"body":"you see something that's wrong."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1068.13,"endTime":1070.56,"body":"You know, I'm, I know that there"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1068.13,"endTime":1070.56,"body":"are a lot of photographers out"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1070.56,"endTime":1073.23,"body":"there who are like, or artists"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1070.56,"endTime":1073.23,"body":"or whatever you do, you see"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1073.23,"endTime":1075.93,"body":"something that's wrong, and you"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1073.23,"endTime":1075.93,"body":"want to be a part of something"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1076.23,"endTime":1080.76,"body":"to make it right or create"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1076.23,"endTime":1080.76,"body":"something, photographs in our"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1080.76,"endTime":1086.31,"body":"case, or a book to make it a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1080.76,"endTime":1086.31,"body":"tool for people to be like to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1086.34,"endTime":1089.16,"body":"shift their consciousness like"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1086.34,"endTime":1089.16,"body":"oh my God, that's that's not"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1089.16,"endTime":1093.12,"body":"right. Or I had no idea asbesto"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1089.16,"endTime":1093.12,"body":"was like this. Or you know, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1093.12,"endTime":1095.73,"body":"thought the asbesto book we did."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1093.12,"endTime":1095.73,"body":"You know, it really"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1095.73,"endTime":1100.53,"body":"unprecedented when I covered"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1095.73,"endTime":1100.53,"body":"asbesto and for any anybody"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1100.53,"endTime":1105.78,"body":"listening, which in simple was"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1100.53,"endTime":1105.78,"body":"an insulation, it was a mineral"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1105.87,"endTime":1109.5,"body":"that was put in almost every"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1105.87,"endTime":1109.5,"body":"house, ships pipes. And"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1109.5,"endTime":1113.49,"body":"basically, whenever it was"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1109.5,"endTime":1113.49,"body":"tampered with, or you, you might"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1113.49,"endTime":1116.19,"body":"break your drywall open in your"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1113.49,"endTime":1116.19,"body":"wall to fix or renovate your"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1116.19,"endTime":1118.95,"body":"house, you could breathe in this"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1116.19,"endTime":1118.95,"body":"dusting. It would give you this"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1118.95,"endTime":1122.97,"body":"terrible cancer only associated"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1118.95,"endTime":1122.97,"body":"with asbestos. And I think we"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1122.97,"endTime":1126.75,"body":"created this handbook, where"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1122.97,"endTime":1126.75,"body":"people who weren't understood or"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1126.75,"endTime":1129.75,"body":"no one knew about their millions"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1126.75,"endTime":1129.75,"body":"of people around the world died"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1129.75,"endTime":1133.86,"body":"from this and continue to die,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1129.75,"endTime":1133.86,"body":"could say, hey, in 15 minutes,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1133.86,"endTime":1136.02,"body":"they could say, this is what it"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1133.86,"endTime":1136.02,"body":"looks like this is what my"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1136.02,"endTime":1138.72,"body":"father or mother or family"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1136.02,"endTime":1138.72,"body":"member looked like and this is"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1138.72,"endTime":1141.93,"body":"how it happens and this is why."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1138.72,"endTime":1141.93,"body":"And it's a nice, short, quick"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1141.93,"endTime":1145.65,"body":"little book. And I just think"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1141.93,"endTime":1145.65,"body":"that, you know, that that book"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1145.65,"endTime":1149.46,"body":"is an artwork for us. And it's"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1145.65,"endTime":1149.46,"body":"it's documentary photography,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1149.46,"endTime":1154.95,"body":"but I think that it's also has"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1149.46,"endTime":1154.95,"body":"served this incredible function"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1155.13,"endTime":1158.91,"body":"where people can share it with"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1155.13,"endTime":1158.91,"body":"politicians, and union members,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1158.91,"endTime":1163.44,"body":"and they can talk about it. And"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1158.91,"endTime":1163.44,"body":"I think that, you know, I try"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1163.44,"endTime":1167.25,"body":"and think of that as I prepare."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1163.44,"endTime":1167.25,"body":"So what's my work? What's my"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1167.25,"endTime":1170.34,"body":"function here? Like? What's my"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1167.25,"endTime":1170.34,"body":"role? You know, and what, what"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1170.34,"endTime":1175.38,"body":"is my training, which involves"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1170.34,"endTime":1175.38,"body":"my experience, telling me to do."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1176.1,"endTime":1180.36,"body":"So I think that when preparing"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1176.1,"endTime":1180.36,"body":"for things, I think the first"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1180.36,"endTime":1184.11,"body":"thing is is do I belong in this"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1180.36,"endTime":1184.11,"body":"space? Should I be taking"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1184.11,"endTime":1187.98,"body":"photographs of this? You know,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1184.11,"endTime":1187.98,"body":"and I think that there isn't a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1187.98,"endTime":1191.16,"body":"blanket answer. I think that"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1187.98,"endTime":1191.16,"body":"this is something people who"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1191.16,"endTime":1194.82,"body":"challenge having a one response"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1191.16,"endTime":1194.82,"body":"thing need to think about is"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1194.82,"endTime":1198.0,"body":"there is no blanket answer. You"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1194.82,"endTime":1198.0,"body":"know, I think being a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1198.0,"endTime":1202.08,"body":"photographer in Afghanistan,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1198.0,"endTime":1202.08,"body":"like 2006-2010 there were very"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1202.08,"endTime":1205.62,"body":"few, if no Afghan photographers"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1202.08,"endTime":1205.62,"body":"covering the war, I think there"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1205.62,"endTime":1207.45,"body":"are a lot of Afghan"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1205.62,"endTime":1207.45,"body":"photographers covering the war"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1207.45,"endTime":1211.5,"body":"now. I'm not so needed there"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1207.45,"endTime":1211.5,"body":"anymore. So, you know, I think"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1211.5,"endTime":1215.85,"body":"that there are spaces where I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1211.5,"endTime":1215.85,"body":"can see a value to what I bring,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1215.88,"endTime":1219.27,"body":"like the Arctic. I'm from"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1215.88,"endTime":1219.27,"body":"Canada, we're an Arctic country,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1219.3,"endTime":1223.02,"body":"I grew up with winter, very"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1219.3,"endTime":1223.02,"body":"cold, harsh winters and being on"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1223.02,"endTime":1229.26,"body":"the land with my father, who was"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1223.02,"endTime":1229.26,"body":"a hunter, my whole childhood. So"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1229.29,"endTime":1232.71,"body":"I feel like, you know, I have"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1229.29,"endTime":1232.71,"body":"the training, and I have a, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1232.71,"endTime":1235.74,"body":"have a view that's not being"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1232.71,"endTime":1235.74,"body":"covered. And a lot of times, the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1235.74,"endTime":1238.89,"body":"way I approach things is I have"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1235.74,"endTime":1238.89,"body":"a view that's not being shown, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1238.89,"endTime":1242.16,"body":"think I can bring something new"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1238.89,"endTime":1242.16,"body":"to the conversation. And I think"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1242.16,"endTime":1248.31,"body":"that, you know, when it comes to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1242.16,"endTime":1248.31,"body":"say, like, Afghanistan, I really"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1248.31,"endTime":1252.69,"body":"felt like, we all know about"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1248.31,"endTime":1252.69,"body":"Afghanistan now, generally. But"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1252.69,"endTime":1255.81,"body":"when I got there in 2006,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1252.69,"endTime":1255.81,"body":"everybody's focused on Iraq, we"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1255.81,"endTime":1260.76,"body":"got to the eyes of time, our,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1255.81,"endTime":1260.76,"body":"our, we should always step back"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1260.76,"endTime":1263.85,"body":"and think about it, and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1260.76,"endTime":1263.85,"body":"sometimes take our time, before"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1263.85,"endTime":1266.76,"body":"we form a statement, like take a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1263.85,"endTime":1266.76,"body":"few days, take a week, these are"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1266.76,"endTime":1269.49,"body":"very serious things. And"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1266.76,"endTime":1269.49,"body":"especially people who are very"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1269.49,"endTime":1272.01,"body":"respected in our community who"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1269.49,"endTime":1272.01,"body":"say things like on Twitter"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1272.01,"endTime":1275.4,"body":"really fast, like take a break,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1272.01,"endTime":1275.4,"body":"say something really strong, you"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1275.4,"endTime":1278.13,"body":"know, no one was paying"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1275.4,"endTime":1278.13,"body":"attention to the war in"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1278.13,"endTime":1280.23,"body":"Afghanistan. No, I mean, there"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1278.13,"endTime":1280.23,"body":"are some places that wanted to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1280.23,"endTime":1282.75,"body":"publish my work. There are a lot"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1280.23,"endTime":1282.75,"body":"of places who did not. And when"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1282.75,"endTime":1285.66,"body":"I was taking the book around,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1282.75,"endTime":1285.66,"body":"when I was trying to form the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1285.66,"endTime":1288.48,"body":"book before you came along, and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1285.66,"endTime":1288.48,"body":"it was great. The narrative here"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1288.48,"endTime":1291.36,"body":"is you came along to me and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1288.48,"endTime":1291.36,"body":"you're like, Hey, I see"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1291.36,"endTime":1295.26,"body":"something here. A lot of book"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1291.36,"endTime":1295.26,"body":"publishers like they were"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1295.26,"endTime":1297.51,"body":"looking at it with the eyes of,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1295.26,"endTime":1297.51,"body":"wow, there's so many books in"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1297.51,"endTime":1299.7,"body":"Afghanistan, we don't need"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1297.51,"endTime":1299.7,"body":"another book in Afghanistan. But"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1299.76,"endTime":1302.01,"body":"what they didn't really take a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1299.76,"endTime":1302.01,"body":"critical look at is that I was"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1302.01,"endTime":1305.88,"body":"gonna make a different book on"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1302.01,"endTime":1305.88,"body":"Afghanistan. And we found each"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1305.88,"endTime":1308.76,"body":"other through community, because"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1305.88,"endTime":1308.76,"body":"we participated in these big,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1308.79,"endTime":1315.87,"body":"you know, SPE, Photolucida"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1308.79,"endTime":1315.87,"body":"Houston Foto Fest and we meet a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1315.87,"endTime":1317.94,"body":"a group, and I'm like, wow,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1315.87,"endTime":1317.94,"body":"never thought of it like that"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1317.94,"endTime":1321.78,"body":"I've learned something new."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1317.94,"endTime":1321.78,"body":"think what Afghanistan reall"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1321.78,"endTime":1324.27,"body":"gave me and which is a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1321.78,"endTime":1324.27,"body":"extension of my parent"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1324.27,"endTime":1329.79,"body":"experiences as children in th"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1324.27,"endTime":1329.79,"body":"Second World War is that being"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1329.79,"endTime":1333.78,"body":"good person means something. Yo"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1329.79,"endTime":1333.78,"body":"know, I think just taking a ste"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1333.78,"endTime":1337.17,"body":"back, even when we have thes"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1333.78,"endTime":1337.17,"body":"big debates, which are critical"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1337.53,"endTime":1340.23,"body":"where people say on socia"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1337.53,"endTime":1340.23,"body":"media, start making it personal"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1340.23,"endTime":1343.68,"body":"insulting people, I really thin"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1340.23,"endTime":1343.68,"body":"like, what's the value of it?"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1343.68,"endTime":1345.15,"body":"just think that what I reall"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1343.68,"endTime":1345.15,"body":"learned is..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1345.33,"endTime":1347.49,"body":"Yeah, is it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1345.33,"endTime":1347.49,"body":"necessary, is it kind?"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1347.0,"endTime":1350.0,"body":"And I just want to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1347.0,"endTime":1350.0,"body":"be a good person. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1348.83,"endTime":1399.53,"body":"That's why we ge"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1348.83,"endTime":1399.53,"body":"along."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1350.0,"endTime":1352.43,"body":"when I work on projects, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1350.0,"endTime":1352.43,"body":"really collaborate with the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1352.43,"endTime":1357.26,"body":"people I photograph. It doesn't"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1352.43,"endTime":1357.26,"body":"matter who it is, you know, to a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1357.26,"endTime":1360.95,"body":"degree, like, then, of course,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1357.26,"endTime":1360.95,"body":"there's no silver bullet, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1360.95,"endTime":1362.78,"body":"know, there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1360.95,"endTime":1362.78,"body":"conversation, and I agree with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1362.78,"endTime":1366.23,"body":"it about asking for consent and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1362.78,"endTime":1366.23,"body":"for permission. But if I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1366.23,"endTime":1368.81,"body":"covering a group of right wing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1366.23,"endTime":1368.81,"body":"extremists who are racist, I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1368.81,"endTime":1370.31,"body":"not going to go ask for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1368.81,"endTime":1370.31,"body":"permission to take their"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1370.31,"endTime":1374.78,"body":"photographs, you know? if I have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1370.31,"endTime":1374.78,"body":"to, to, like, not be beaten up,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1375.02,"endTime":1380.12,"body":"because they need to know who I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1375.02,"endTime":1380.12,"body":"am. Or I'm in a position where I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1380.12,"endTime":1382.67,"body":"could be violently harmed, maybe"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1380.12,"endTime":1382.67,"body":"there will be a conversation"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1382.67,"endTime":1385.82,"body":"there. But, you know, what I've"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1382.67,"endTime":1385.82,"body":"learned from history is, every"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1385.82,"endTime":1388.64,"body":"time we think we figured a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1385.82,"endTime":1388.64,"body":"silver bullet, there's something"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1388.64,"endTime":1392.87,"body":"that doesn't work on it. And t"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1388.64,"endTime":1392.87,"body":"at time is constantly a changin"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1392.87,"endTime":1397.43,"body":"and evolving thing. And we, we"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1392.87,"endTime":1397.43,"body":"an't think of justice movements"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1397.43,"endTime":1399.44,"body":"s we win, and then it's never"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1397.43,"endTime":1399.44,"body":"onna there's never going"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1399.0,"endTime":1430.38,"body":"Totally, yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1399.0,"endTime":1430.38,"body":"it's like, I won't stand for"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1399.44,"endTime":1403.01,"body":"o be injustice ever again. And"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1399.44,"endTime":1403.01,"body":"and the the paradigm is goi"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1403.01,"endTime":1407.54,"body":"g to continue changing like"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1403.01,"endTime":1407.54,"body":", I, because of my parents exper"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1407.54,"endTime":1411.68,"body":"ence and where I grew up an"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1407.54,"endTime":1411.68,"body":"my wife's Jewish, I'm very"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1411.71,"endTime":1416.03,"body":"uch constantly watching what any"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1411.71,"endTime":1416.03,"body":"ody who's an anti semitic or a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1416.03,"endTime":1418.88,"body":"neo nazi, or what they are up"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1416.03,"endTime":1418.88,"body":"to, since I was a kid. It's h"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1418.88,"endTime":1421.55,"body":"w I was raised. A lot of my fri"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1418.88,"endTime":1421.55,"body":"nds were Jewish, I was in a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1421.85,"endTime":1425.39,"body":"eal multi, multi ethnic"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1421.85,"endTime":1425.39,"body":"and multicultural, multi relig"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1425.42,"endTime":1428.6,"body":"ous neighborhood."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1430.38,"endTime":1434.67,"body":"that. I won't stand for it. And,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1430.38,"endTime":1434.67,"body":"you know, I've watched you know,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1434.7,"endTime":1438.24,"body":"in the 80s, it was neo nazi"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1434.7,"endTime":1438.24,"body":"skinheads. And now, it's lots of"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1438.24,"endTime":1440.76,"body":"other things. And people build"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1438.24,"endTime":1440.76,"body":"narratives around it, like it's"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1440.76,"endTime":1445.59,"body":"pride or heritage. You know, in"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1440.76,"endTime":1445.59,"body":"World War II, there was a pretty"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1445.59,"endTime":1448.11,"body":"serious effort from this country"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1445.59,"endTime":1448.11,"body":"to put everything we had"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1448.11,"endTime":1451.17,"body":"including hundreds of thousands"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1448.11,"endTime":1451.17,"body":"of lives along with other people"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1451.17,"endTime":1454.68,"body":"who believed the same thing to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1451.17,"endTime":1454.68,"body":"estroy this ideology in Germany,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1454.68,"endTime":1458.58,"body":"and it keeps coming back. So"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1454.68,"endTime":1458.58,"body":"think it's all our duties mat"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1458.58,"endTime":1463.47,"body":"er if we're white or our black o"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1458.58,"endTime":1463.47,"body":", or Asian, we got to always,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1463.47,"endTime":1465.54,"body":"it's always going to be there."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1463.47,"endTime":1465.54,"body":"It's always going to be com"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1465.54,"endTime":1467.97,"body":"ng and it's something tha"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1465.54,"endTime":1467.97,"body":"we have to constantly be watch"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1467.97,"endTime":1470.73,"body":"ng. Because it's good. It's lik"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1467.97,"endTime":1470.73,"body":"the Hydra, you cut the head"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1470.73,"endTime":1473.34,"body":"ff in a new head grows back"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1470.73,"endTime":1473.34,"body":"in and it's constantly changin"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1473.34,"endTime":1478.41,"body":"the way it looks. So I k"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1473.34,"endTime":1478.41,"body":"ow a lot of prominent people"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1478.41,"endTime":1482.4,"body":"ho who hunt down Nazis and or"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1478.41,"endTime":1482.4,"body":"ollow these movements so that we"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1482.4,"endTime":1484.77,"body":"always know what they look li"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1482.4,"endTime":1484.77,"body":"e. And just when we think we kn"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1484.77,"endTime":1487.98,"body":"w what they look like, the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1484.77,"endTime":1487.98,"body":"change and they're very subt"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1487.98,"endTime":1491.88,"body":"e, how they seep back in a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1487.98,"endTime":1491.88,"body":"d we got to always be constantl"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1491.88,"endTime":1496.23,"body":"working on it. If, if an"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1491.88,"endTime":1496.23,"body":"one here is listening and wants"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1496.23,"endTime":1499.5,"body":"o fight for this, they have to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1496.23,"endTime":1499.5,"body":"ealize that you can never run o"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1499.74,"endTime":1501.87,"body":"t of breath because its going"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1499.74,"endTime":1501.87,"body":"to, you know, 20 years from"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1501.87,"endTime":1503.88,"body":"ow it's going to look co"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1501.87,"endTime":1503.88,"body":"pletely different. And they alw"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1503.88,"endTime":1509.88,"body":"ys come smiling, you know? And s"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1503.88,"endTime":1509.88,"body":"and so we should be studying l"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1509.88,"endTime":1512.97,"body":"ke, you know Leni Riefenstahl'"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1509.88,"endTime":1512.97,"body":"films who were propagand"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1510.12,"endTime":1532.26,"body":"...that kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1510.12,"endTime":1532.26,"body":"skepticism and not taking"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1512.97,"endTime":1515.61,"body":"promotional films for Hitler."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1512.97,"endTime":1515.61,"body":"e got to watch that so we c"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1515.61,"endTime":1518.58,"body":"n learn how to see it a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1515.61,"endTime":1518.58,"body":"d recognize and be like, Uh hu"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1518.58,"endTime":1522.78,"body":", you can't fool me. So I thin"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1518.58,"endTime":1522.78,"body":"that that's sort of an unde"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1522.78,"endTime":1527.43,"body":"lying fundamental, which drives"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1522.78,"endTime":1527.43,"body":"how I prepare for things. So I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1527.43,"endTime":1527.85,"body":"thin"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1532.26,"endTime":1533.49,"body":"something at face value?"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1534.56,"endTime":1539.12,"body":"Yeah, you know, uh,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1534.56,"endTime":1539.12,"body":"you know, my, what's incredible"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1539.12,"endTime":1542.45,"body":"is like, my mom had a grade six"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1539.12,"endTime":1542.45,"body":"reading level, my dad had a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1542.45,"endTime":1544.7,"body":"grade four, because they were in"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1542.45,"endTime":1544.7,"body":"Italy, and then they immigrated"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1544.7,"endTime":1547.82,"body":"to Canada. And they went"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1544.7,"endTime":1547.82,"body":"straight to work. That was the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1547.82,"endTime":1551.06,"body":"system. Was that a very just"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1547.82,"endTime":1551.06,"body":"system? No, but at the time, it"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1551.06,"endTime":1553.82,"body":"was like, they were like, Wow,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1551.06,"endTime":1553.82,"body":"my God, I bought a house and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1553.82,"endTime":1557.27,"body":"paid the mortgage off in three"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1553.82,"endTime":1557.27,"body":"years. And I got a job and it's"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1557.27,"endTime":1563.3,"body":"Wow, it's, it's incredible. So"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1557.27,"endTime":1563.3,"body":"I, when I prepare for these"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1563.3,"endTime":1568.31,"body":"things, it's, it's what's my"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1563.3,"endTime":1568.31,"body":"purpose? How am I going to work?"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1568.7,"endTime":1572.87,"body":"You know, who are the people"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1568.7,"endTime":1572.87,"body":"that I might impact? What is"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1572.87,"endTime":1576.68,"body":"that impact gonna be? And who"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1572.87,"endTime":1576.68,"body":"can i partner with and or"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1576.68,"endTime":1579.92,"body":"collaborate with, to achieve"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1576.68,"endTime":1579.92,"body":"this sort of thing? And, you"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1579.92,"endTime":1582.77,"body":"know, I think there's a big"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1579.92,"endTime":1582.77,"body":"emphasis on sort of, how do I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1582.77,"endTime":1587.39,"body":"prepare psychologically and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1582.77,"endTime":1587.39,"body":"physically. And I think"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1587.39,"endTime":1590.66,"body":"everybody's just built"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1587.39,"endTime":1590.66,"body":"differently. I have, I'm a big"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1590.66,"endTime":1594.89,"body":"guy. I'm tall, I'm strong, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1590.66,"endTime":1594.89,"body":"think psychologically, I have a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1594.89,"endTime":1597.29,"body":"lot of experience, and I can get"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1594.89,"endTime":1597.29,"body":"through things. But then I know"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1597.29,"endTime":1599.69,"body":"people who come from completely"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1597.29,"endTime":1599.69,"body":"different backgrounds, you look"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1599.69,"endTime":1602.45,"body":"at them, and sometimes you don't"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1599.69,"endTime":1602.45,"body":"think they're tough. But they're"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1602.45,"endTime":1606.35,"body":"five feet tall, and they're a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1602.45,"endTime":1606.35,"body":"woman and they're super, they're"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1606.35,"endTime":1611.42,"body":"tougher than me in some cases."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1606.35,"endTime":1611.42,"body":"So I think that, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1611.42,"endTime":1614.48,"body":"camera equipment stuff is,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1611.42,"endTime":1614.48,"body":"there's some, there's small"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1614.48,"endTime":1618.62,"body":"decisions, really, in the scheme"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1614.48,"endTime":1618.62,"body":"of things. And then, sort of"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1618.62,"endTime":1621.74,"body":"psychologically, I try and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1618.62,"endTime":1621.74,"body":"prepare myself that how badly"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1621.74,"endTime":1625.88,"body":"things could go, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1621.74,"endTime":1625.88,"body":"that, I come back to editing."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1627.29,"endTime":1629.99,"body":"Just because I take the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1627.29,"endTime":1629.99,"body":"photograph, it doesn't mean it's"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1629.99,"endTime":1634.31,"body":"gonna go into the world right"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1629.99,"endTime":1634.31,"body":"away. I, you know, I'm in my"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1634.31,"endTime":1638.54,"body":"50s. Now, so at this point, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1634.31,"endTime":1638.54,"body":"kind of have a setup system,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1638.54,"endTime":1642.38,"body":"like right beside the door, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1638.54,"endTime":1642.38,"body":"have like a list and it has, you"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1642.38,"endTime":1648.74,"body":"know, de escalate, escape route,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1642.38,"endTime":1648.74,"body":"you know, I have some key things"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1648.74,"endTime":1650.39,"body":"written down, you know, think"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1648.74,"endTime":1650.39,"body":"safety..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1650.42,"endTime":1651.77,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1650.42,"endTime":1651.77,"body":"interesting, yeah."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1651.8,"endTime":1654.32,"body":"Yeah, cuz I got it,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1651.8,"endTime":1654.32,"body":"you know, January 6, I knew"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1654.32,"endTime":1657.35,"body":"there was gonna be a protest,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1654.32,"endTime":1657.35,"body":"but I had no idea it was gonna"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1657.35,"endTime":1660.95,"body":"escalate to the point where I'd"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1657.35,"endTime":1660.95,"body":"be on the front lawn of the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1660.95,"endTime":1665.75,"body":"Capitol Building, surrounded by"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1660.95,"endTime":1665.75,"body":"three guys with bats questioning"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1665.75,"endTime":1667.43,"body":"my motives, you know?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1667.76,"endTime":1668.21,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1668.36,"endTime":1670.88,"body":"Yeah. And then, you"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1668.36,"endTime":1670.88,"body":"know, in the middle of that"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1670.88,"endTime":1673.79,"body":"someone walked up to me who was"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1670.88,"endTime":1673.79,"body":"protesting, who had an axe"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1673.79,"endTime":1677.6,"body":"handle and goes, wow, is that a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1673.79,"endTime":1677.6,"body":"Mamiya Six medium format camera?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1677.6,"endTime":1677.63,"body":"(Laughs)"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1678.86,"endTime":1679.76,"body":"Are you shooting"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1678.86,"endTime":1679.76,"body":"film?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1680.27,"endTime":1681.2,"body":"America..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1680.27,"endTime":1681.2,"body":"(laughs)"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1681.0,"endTime":1684.33,"body":"And then I said,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1681.0,"endTime":1684.33,"body":"Yes. And then he goes, cool. And"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1684.33,"endTime":1686.73,"body":"then he ran off and started"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1684.33,"endTime":1686.73,"body":"hitting a window with an axe"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1686.73,"endTime":1687.69,"body":"handle on the Capitol."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1688.23,"endTime":1690.03,"body":"Oh, my gosh, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1688.23,"endTime":1690.03,"body":"can't even."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1690.0,"endTime":1691.08,"body":"It's like a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1690.0,"endTime":1691.08,"body":"surreal..."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1690.619,"endTime":1692.539,"body":"It's like a surreal"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1690.619,"endTime":1692.539,"body":"kind of thing, you know?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1691.08,"endTime":1692.4,"body":"I can't even"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1691.08,"endTime":1692.4,"body":"wrap my head around that."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1693.589,"endTime":1696.529,"body":"Narratives, people try and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1693.589,"endTime":1696.529,"body":"change a lot of narratives. You"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1696.529,"endTime":1698.629,"body":"know, there's like, sort of, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1696.529,"endTime":1698.629,"body":"know, in some ways revisionist"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1698.629,"endTime":1702.199,"body":"history, there's already people"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1698.629,"endTime":1702.199,"body":"who are elected in office trying"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1702.199,"endTime":1706.789,"body":"to say that January 6, wasn't a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1702.199,"endTime":1706.789,"body":"really big deal. I was there,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1706.789,"endTime":1709.789,"body":"January 6, was a very big deal."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1706.789,"endTime":1709.789,"body":"I think that, you know, I worked"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1709.789,"endTime":1712.039,"body":"in that building for 15 years,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1709.789,"endTime":1712.039,"body":"I've covered government for that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1712.039,"endTime":1715.159,"body":"long. I think that what happened"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1712.039,"endTime":1715.159,"body":"on that day, we need to remember"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1715.159,"endTime":1717.949,"body":"that and so how do we remember"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1715.159,"endTime":1717.949,"body":"that? How do you remember the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1717.949,"endTime":1722.719,"body":"protests? At least here in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1717.949,"endTime":1722.719,"body":"Washington, they were all over"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1722.719,"endTime":1725.899,"body":"the country in the world, in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1722.719,"endTime":1725.899,"body":"Black Lives Matter Plaza, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1725.899,"endTime":1729.319,"body":"know? How do you know, if t"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1725.899,"endTime":1729.319,"body":"e police erect a new fence who'"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1729.319,"endTime":1732.529,"body":"going to go photograph and tel"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1729.319,"endTime":1732.529,"body":"everybody, you know, who ar"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1732.529,"endTime":1734.629,"body":"they aligned with? What ethic"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1732.529,"endTime":1734.629,"body":"do they follow? I think there'"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1734.629,"endTime":1738.379,"body":"all these questions, you know"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1734.629,"endTime":1738.379,"body":"and if something is not correct"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1738.379,"endTime":1740.509,"body":"we have editors, we have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1738.379,"endTime":1740.509,"body":"process which we do correc"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1740.509,"endTime":1745.159,"body":"things. But it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1740.509,"endTime":1745.159,"body":"constant, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1745.159,"endTime":1747.949,"body":"pretty much have had a camer"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1745.159,"endTime":1747.949,"body":"bag by my door ready to go"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1748.939,"endTime":1751.789,"body":"every night. It's calmed dow"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1748.939,"endTime":1751.789,"body":"now a little bit. But at on"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1751.789,"endTime":1754.159,"body":"point, I'd be getting on my bik"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1751.789,"endTime":1754.159,"body":"at four in the morning, becaus"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1754.159,"endTime":1756.709,"body":"they had pulled down"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1754.159,"endTime":1756.709,"body":"confederate statue, I need to g"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1756.709,"endTime":1759.619,"body":"document, you know, I get ther"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1756.709,"endTime":1759.619,"body":"and there's this Confederat"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1759.619,"endTime":1763.609,"body":"statue with a noose around hi"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1759.619,"endTime":1763.609,"body":"neck like surreal scenes o"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1763.609,"endTime":1766.879,"body":"things I never thought I might"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1763.609,"endTime":1766.879,"body":"not be the witness to them happe"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1766.909,"endTime":1772.519,"body":". So you know, even even what"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1766.909,"endTime":1772.519,"body":"eople need to understand to is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1772.519,"endTime":1775.879,"body":"say people who are activ"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1772.519,"endTime":1775.879,"body":"sts, and I think activists are i"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1775.879,"endTime":1779.839,"body":"portant, of all types, is that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1775.879,"endTime":1779.839,"body":"they can create a narrative that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1779.839,"endTime":1782.089,"body":"suits what they want to do, but"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1779.839,"endTime":1782.089,"body":"hen someone could come alon"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1782.089,"endTime":1785.179,"body":"and re edit it and post it some"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1782.089,"endTime":1785.179,"body":"here online that completely is s"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1785.179,"endTime":1788.419,"body":"parate from theirs. And I thin"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1785.179,"endTime":1788.419,"body":"that the the important thin"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1788.419,"endTime":1792.049,"body":"about that is that jour"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1788.419,"endTime":1792.049,"body":"alists are a great sort of this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1792.379,"endTime":1796.549,"body":"this other pillar that can say"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1792.379,"endTime":1796.549,"body":"ey, no, that's wrong. We can"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1796.549,"endTime":1799.609,"body":"uestion things. And we have a me"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1796.549,"endTime":1799.609,"body":"hanism to do that."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1802.44,"endTime":1804.87,"body":"So I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1802.44,"endTime":1804.87,"body":"ask you, I asked these questions"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1804.87,"endTime":1807.81,"body":"to everyone on the podcast, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1804.87,"endTime":1807.81,"body":"I feel like this is a good"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1807.81,"endTime":1812.43,"body":"point. What do you feel like is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1807.81,"endTime":1812.43,"body":"the best career decision you've"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1812.43,"endTime":1816.39,"body":"made? And by that, I mean, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1812.43,"endTime":1816.39,"body":"know, something that has"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1816.39,"endTime":1819.0,"body":"happened to you that you did"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1816.39,"endTime":1819.0,"body":"that taught you the most, or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1819.0,"endTime":1824.22,"body":"that kind of turned things into,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1819.0,"endTime":1824.22,"body":"you know, a direction that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1824.25,"endTime":1826.53,"body":"you're proud of, or it could be"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1824.25,"endTime":1826.53,"body":"big or small."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1826.53,"endTime":1828.0,"body":"Well, I think it"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1826.53,"endTime":1828.0,"body":"kind of happened when we did"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1828.0,"endTime":1832.98,"body":"Front Towards Enemy. And I think"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1828.0,"endTime":1832.98,"body":"what it was was, we all look a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1832.98,"endTime":1836.19,"body":"lot of photographers or artists,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1832.98,"endTime":1836.19,"body":"whoever's listening, that we"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1836.19,"endTime":1840.54,"body":"like, and I always use the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1836.19,"endTime":1840.54,"body":"metaphor of music, and I think"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1840.54,"endTime":1841.5,"body":"you remember this moment."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1842.0,"endTime":1844.61,"body":"You kind of look"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1842.0,"endTime":1844.61,"body":"around, and you're like, well,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1842.43,"endTime":1842.55,"body":"I do (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1844.61,"endTime":1847.49,"body":"first of all, everybody is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1844.61,"endTime":1847.49,"body":"listening. If you want to learn"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1847.49,"endTime":1850.19,"body":"something from me, the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1847.49,"endTime":1850.19,"body":"fundamental issue, you should be"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1850.19,"endTime":1853.61,"body":"happy. If you're not happy, then"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1850.19,"endTime":1853.61,"body":"then you're not doing what you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1853.61,"endTime":1857.27,"body":"like. And there are unhappy"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1853.61,"endTime":1857.27,"body":"moments like you apply for a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1857.27,"endTime":1859.46,"body":"grant, you don't get it or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1857.27,"endTime":1859.46,"body":"trying to get a book deal, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1859.46,"endTime":1862.88,"body":"know, etc, etc. But that's part"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1859.46,"endTime":1862.88,"body":"of it, no matter what you do in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1862.88,"endTime":1866.21,"body":"life, right. But I think you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1862.88,"endTime":1866.21,"body":"need to understand, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1866.21,"endTime":1868.19,"body":"and maybe it's a question some"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1866.21,"endTime":1868.19,"body":"of you are still in, and they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1868.19,"endTime":1873.44,"body":"won't be answered for a long"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1868.19,"endTime":1873.44,"body":"time. But who are you? I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1873.44,"endTime":1876.5,"body":"realized that, you know, when I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1873.44,"endTime":1876.5,"body":"think of the things I want to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1876.5,"endTime":1882.08,"body":"do, is that who I am? So, hey, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1876.5,"endTime":1882.08,"body":"think we've all been...,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1882.11,"endTime":1886.07,"body":"sometimes some of us have been"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1882.11,"endTime":1886.07,"body":"fooled, that we want this giant,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1886.94,"endTime":1891.11,"body":"super best quality paper; I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1886.94,"endTime":1891.11,"body":"don't like the word coffee table"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1891.11,"endTime":1895.16,"body":"book, but, you know, that's what"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1891.11,"endTime":1895.16,"body":"we think. But you know, what, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1895.16,"endTime":1898.67,"body":"realize, at least right now, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1895.16,"endTime":1898.67,"body":"it could change, I am not that,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1898.67,"endTime":1901.79,"body":"I've never been that. I'm a punk"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1898.67,"endTime":1901.79,"body":"rock band. I'm..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1902.03,"endTime":1903.56,"body":"You are a punk"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1902.03,"endTime":1903.56,"body":"rock band!"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1903.0,"endTime":1906.57,"body":"I'm Black Flag, a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1903.0,"endTime":1906.57,"body":"band I grew up on and and when"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1906.57,"endTime":1910.11,"body":"we think of the metaphor, you"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1906.57,"endTime":1910.11,"body":"know, maybe one day I'll"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1910.11,"endTime":1913.08,"body":"headline the stadium using that"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1910.11,"endTime":1913.08,"body":"metaphor of the band. But right"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1913.08,"endTime":1917.49,"body":"now, I'm that underground voice"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1913.08,"endTime":1917.49,"body":"in the basement underground"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1917.49,"endTime":1920.43,"body":"concert, singing about stuff"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1917.49,"endTime":1920.43,"body":"with my photographs, is the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1920.43,"endTime":1924.72,"body":"metaphor. You know, that's where"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1920.43,"endTime":1924.72,"body":"I exist. That's where I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1924.87,"endTime":1927.06,"body":"I love this, I love how its"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1924.87,"endTime":1927.06,"body":"happening!"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1928.29,"endTime":1930.54,"body":"Well, and I feel"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1928.29,"endTime":1930.54,"body":"like you and I are kindred"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1930.54,"endTime":1934.44,"body":"spirits in that way. And that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1930.54,"endTime":1934.44,"body":"we're like, it's always looking"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1934.44,"endTime":1940.38,"body":"for an unconventional maybe a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1934.44,"endTime":1940.38,"body":"less precious way to share"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1940.38,"endTime":1946.53,"body":"things in a fine art setting. So"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1940.38,"endTime":1946.53,"body":"like not being locked into this,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1946.53,"endTime":1949.26,"body":"like you said for you, like this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1946.53,"endTime":1949.26,"body":"coffee table book with, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1949.26,"endTime":1952.68,"body":"know, super fine art, and that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1949.26,"endTime":1952.68,"body":"would make it more expensive for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1952.68,"endTime":1961.26,"body":"people. I do remember being in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1952.68,"endTime":1961.26,"body":"Paris with you, well, we met up"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1961.26,"endTime":1964.08,"body":"there. (laughs) We didn't take a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1961.26,"endTime":1964.08,"body":"trip to Paris. But we were in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1964.08,"endTime":1971.01,"body":"Paris at the same time and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1964.08,"endTime":1971.01,"body":"Aperture had their photo Book"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1971.01,"endTime":1976.08,"body":"Award, like finalists up and you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1971.01,"endTime":1976.08,"body":"came up to me and you're like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1977.01,"endTime":1980.31,"body":"you got to come see this and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1977.01,"endTime":1980.31,"body":"there were a few different books"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1980.31,"endTime":1985.41,"body":"that had really unconventional"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1980.31,"endTime":1985.41,"body":"ways of exhibiting, and you were"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1985.41,"endTime":1989.31,"body":"like, We got to start over. Like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1985.41,"endTime":1989.31,"body":"we need to do this in completely"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1989.31,"endTime":1992.31,"body":"different way. And we did. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1989.31,"endTime":1992.31,"body":"it's amazing."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1992.0,"endTime":1994.88,"body":"No, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1992.0,"endTime":1994.88,"body":"think that and we all can change"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1994.88,"endTime":1998.57,"body":"and evolve, like, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1994.88,"endTime":1998.57,"body":"love music, music has shaped so"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1998.57,"endTime":2001.96,"body":"much of what I am in continues,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":1998.57,"endTime":2001.96,"body":"it's part of a daily ritual and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2001.96,"endTime":2007.06,"body":"experience for me. You know, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2001.96,"endTime":2007.06,"body":"listened to like, kind of, in"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2007.06,"endTime":2012.85,"body":"some ways, experimental extreme"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2007.06,"endTime":2012.85,"body":"music, like, sort of not really"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2012.85,"endTime":2015.58,"body":"traditional heavy metal, but a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2012.85,"endTime":2015.58,"body":"lot of stuff is like some kind"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2015.58,"endTime":2018.64,"body":"of political or social thing."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2015.58,"endTime":2018.64,"body":"Like when I think of Henry"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2018.64,"endTime":2022.27,"body":"Rollins and Black Flag, I really"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2018.64,"endTime":2022.27,"body":"identify with that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2022.27,"endTime":2025.54,"body":"it's, I feel what they're"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2022.27,"endTime":2025.54,"body":"talking about. And that's what I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2025.54,"endTime":2029.77,"body":"really feel like my work needed"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2025.54,"endTime":2029.77,"body":"to reflect, so people don't get"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2029.77,"endTime":2032.74,"body":"confused, not literally"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2029.77,"endTime":2032.74,"body":"reflecting the music, but the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2032.74,"endTime":2035.92,"body":"fundamental of what my identity"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2032.74,"endTime":2035.92,"body":"was, as a photographer. I think"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2035.92,"endTime":2039.46,"body":"that there are photographers who"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2035.92,"endTime":2039.46,"body":"should publish big, glossy, big,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2039.55,"endTime":2042.22,"body":"you know, that's what it is."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2039.55,"endTime":2042.22,"body":"That's where they belong. That's"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2042.22,"endTime":2044.08,"body":"the conversation. You know?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2044.35,"endTime":2047.17,"body":"But that wasn't"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2044.35,"endTime":2047.17,"body":"the conversation you wanted to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2047.17,"endTime":2047.5,"body":"have?"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2047.53,"endTime":2047.89,"body":"No"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2048.41,"endTime":2050.75,"body":"And it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2048.41,"endTime":2050.75,"body":"authentic to you, and how you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2050.75,"endTime":2051.65,"body":"approach the world."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2051.69,"endTime":2053.43,"body":"And what led to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2051.69,"endTime":2053.43,"body":"Front Towards Enemies, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2053.43,"endTime":2060.09,"body":"published these three newspapers"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2053.43,"endTime":2060.09,"body":"that you could take them apart"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2060.09,"endTime":2063.27,"body":"and re edit the photos. It was,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2060.09,"endTime":2063.27,"body":"it was really, I'm only"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2063.27,"endTime":2066.24,"body":"understanding the last few"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2063.27,"endTime":2066.24,"body":"months, I deconstructed, take"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2066.24,"endTime":2068.94,"body":"everything apart, I want to re"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2066.24,"endTime":2068.94,"body":"examine it, I want you to be"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2068.94,"endTime":2072.3,"body":"able to take it apart. So"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2068.94,"endTime":2072.3,"body":"because you can form your own"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2072.3,"endTime":2075.09,"body":"opinion and you could be a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2072.3,"endTime":2075.09,"body":"rebel, you can change what I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2075.09,"endTime":2078.45,"body":"made. And I think that that's"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2075.09,"endTime":2078.45,"body":"very empowering. And it actually"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2078.57,"endTime":2082.02,"body":"allows people to change"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2078.57,"endTime":2082.02,"body":"something and feel like I can"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2082.02,"endTime":2087.24,"body":"form my own opinion. And I think"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2082.02,"endTime":2087.24,"body":"that you know, as as I look at"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2087.24,"endTime":2090.24,"body":"how I do things, you know, some"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2087.24,"endTime":2090.24,"body":"things that aren't conventional"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2090.24,"endTime":2092.43,"body":"become traditional that were"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2090.24,"endTime":2092.43,"body":"untraditional, that's the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2092.43,"endTime":2095.82,"body":"history of everything. You know,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2092.43,"endTime":2095.82,"body":"when certain bands were like"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2095.82,"endTime":2098.67,"body":"indie bands, now they're like"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2095.82,"endTime":2098.67,"body":"playing stadiums and that's fine"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2098.67,"endTime":2101.76,"body":"too. But I think that when we"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2098.67,"endTime":2101.76,"body":"did Front Towards Enemy, it was"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2101.76,"endTime":2104.13,"body":"like that I realized I was, you"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2101.76,"endTime":2104.13,"body":"know, when you're struggling"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2104.13,"endTime":2107.64,"body":"with it, like, Who are you? What"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2104.13,"endTime":2107.64,"body":"are you trying to say? What's"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2107.64,"endTime":2110.79,"body":"the format or object that's"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2107.64,"endTime":2110.79,"body":"going to say it for you. And I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2110.79,"endTime":2113.4,"body":"think that when you look at it,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2110.79,"endTime":2113.4,"body":"I think some of the most"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2113.4,"endTime":2118.83,"body":"successful art, it's so apparent"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2113.4,"endTime":2118.83,"body":"that they had struggled."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2118.86,"endTime":2121.89,"body":"Struggles, good, they had"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2118.86,"endTime":2121.89,"body":"struggled, and then they hit on"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2121.89,"endTime":2124.98,"body":"something. And they, they"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2121.89,"endTime":2124.98,"body":"trusted in it, and hey,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2124.98,"endTime":2128.1,"body":"sometimes, like, people need to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2124.98,"endTime":2128.1,"body":"understand to get the Front"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2128.1,"endTime":2132.12,"body":"Towards Enemy took me nearly 30"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2128.1,"endTime":2132.12,"body":"years. So it took me 30 years to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2132.12,"endTime":2134.61,"body":"figure out, I'd published a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2132.12,"endTime":2134.61,"body":"bunch of books that weren't me,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2134.85,"endTime":2139.08,"body":"but I was working through it,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2134.85,"endTime":2139.08,"body":"you know, and that that book is"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2139.08,"endTime":2142.86,"body":"the pinnacle of of my ideas."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2139.08,"endTime":2142.86,"body":"It's not just the photographs,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2142.86,"endTime":2145.17,"body":"it's the format that they're"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2142.86,"endTime":2145.17,"body":"presented in as well. That's"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2145.17,"endTime":2145.68,"body":"important."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2146.29,"endTime":2151.72,"body":"So the flip side"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2146.29,"endTime":2151.72,"body":"of that, would you say that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2152.08,"endTime":2155.77,"body":"something that you feel like you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2152.08,"endTime":2155.77,"body":"made a wrong turn or kind of,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2155.8,"endTime":2158.41,"body":"you know, not the right decision"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2155.8,"endTime":2158.41,"body":"for you, but that you learn from"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2158.41,"endTime":2162.88,"body":"it? Would it be that you had"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2158.41,"endTime":2162.88,"body":"done other things along the way"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2162.88,"endTime":2166.57,"body":"that you didn't, that didn't"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2162.88,"endTime":2166.57,"body":"feel as authentic or in line"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2166.57,"endTime":2170.59,"body":"with you? And that you learned"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2166.57,"endTime":2170.59,"body":"from how that felt? Or is there"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2170.0,"endTime":2173.81,"body":"Nope, you described"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2170.0,"endTime":2173.81,"body":"that exactly well. But sometimes"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2170.59,"endTime":2170.92,"body":"another..."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2173.81,"endTime":2178.07,"body":"I didn't know, sometimes you're"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2173.81,"endTime":2178.07,"body":"like, I don't know, it's okay to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2178.07,"endTime":2182.84,"body":"not know. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2178.07,"endTime":2182.84,"body":"people who really, I think a lot"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2182.84,"endTime":2185.45,"body":"of times what we all do, and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2182.84,"endTime":2185.45,"body":"there's we have no real choice,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2185.48,"endTime":2188.33,"body":"I don't think there's any"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2185.48,"endTime":2188.33,"body":"artists who like, is born and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2188.33,"endTime":2190.49,"body":"they're in a room and they don't"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2188.33,"endTime":2190.49,"body":"look at anything else. And then"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2190.49,"endTime":2195.44,"body":"suddenly, they're this original"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2190.49,"endTime":2195.44,"body":"that does not exist, okay, for"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2195.44,"endTime":2198.8,"body":"the most part. Everybody looks"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2195.44,"endTime":2198.8,"body":"at other stuff. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2198.8,"endTime":2203.99,"body":"we're like, Hey, I, I like the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2198.8,"endTime":2203.99,"body":"Bauhaus art movement. Okay, so"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2203.99,"endTime":2206.66,"body":"you start emulating them, and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2203.99,"endTime":2206.66,"body":"then you make your own version"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2206.66,"endTime":2209.45,"body":"of it, it changes because"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2206.66,"endTime":2209.45,"body":"everybody's individual. But I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2209.45,"endTime":2214.37,"body":"think that say in my, in my"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2209.45,"endTime":2214.37,"body":"case, I did things that I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2214.37,"endTime":2217.52,"body":"thought, for my knowledge at"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2214.37,"endTime":2217.52,"body":"that point, like seeinng the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2217.52,"endTime":2221.09,"body":"first five years of my career"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2217.52,"endTime":2221.09,"body":"after college and 10 years, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2221.09,"endTime":2224.57,"body":"was following that felt right."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2221.09,"endTime":2224.57,"body":"But I don't think I really hit"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2224.57,"endTime":2228.74,"body":"something that was uniquely me,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2224.57,"endTime":2228.74,"body":"till Front Towards Enemy. I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2228.74,"endTime":2231.71,"body":"think the photographs that I was"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2228.74,"endTime":2231.71,"body":"making, and here's the thing,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2231.71,"endTime":2235.19,"body":"when I make my photographs, they"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2231.71,"endTime":2235.19,"body":"can be single things like a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2235.19,"endTime":2238.4,"body":"single idea. But when I edit a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2235.19,"endTime":2238.4,"body":"whole book and put it together,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2238.7,"endTime":2240.14,"body":"it becomes something else."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2241.04,"endTime":2241.49,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2241.48,"endTime":2243.79,"body":"And I think, that,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2241.48,"endTime":2243.79,"body":"you know, I think I was having"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2243.79,"endTime":2246.85,"body":"success in how I took"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2243.79,"endTime":2246.85,"body":"photographs, like the the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2246.85,"endTime":2250.87,"body":"picture making thing, what I was"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2246.85,"endTime":2250.87,"body":"seeing politically, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2250.24,"endTime":2266.38,"body":"Yeah, it's time"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2250.24,"endTime":2266.38,"body":"and it's experience"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2250.87,"endTime":2258.82,"body":"like raw photographs. It's it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2250.87,"endTime":2258.82,"body":"no strange Photoshop filters,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2259.12,"endTime":2263.83,"body":"straight out of the camera. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2259.12,"endTime":2263.83,"body":"it is this tool that that helps"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2263.83,"endTime":2266.89,"body":"me make a document of what I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2263.83,"endTime":2266.89,"body":"just experienced or witnessed."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2266.92,"endTime":2269.53,"body":"I like it nice and simple lik"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2266.92,"endTime":2269.53,"body":"that, that is not changed. B"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2269.53,"endTime":2273.76,"body":"t then I need to obviously take"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2269.53,"endTime":2273.76,"body":"that and put it into something"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2273.37,"endTime":2273.82,"body":"And collaborating."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2273.76,"endTime":2276.73,"body":"where people, you know, where th"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2273.76,"endTime":2276.73,"body":"re's a kind of a bigger set of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2273.85,"endTime":2274.3,"body":"Experimentation..."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2274.3,"endTime":2309.94,"body":"Some people just hit"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2274.3,"endTime":2309.94,"body":"it on the first thing, and then"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2276.73,"endTime":2282.16,"body":"deas. And I think for a long tim"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2276.73,"endTime":2282.16,"body":", I the things I made were succ"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2282.16,"endTime":2286.27,"body":"ssful, because they were lead"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2282.16,"endTime":2286.27,"body":"ng me to what ultimately, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2286.27,"endTime":2289.9,"body":"ransformed into something else"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2286.27,"endTime":2289.9,"body":"And I realized, aha, this is w"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2289.93,"endTime":2292.6,"body":"at I've been trying to say"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2289.93,"endTime":2292.6,"body":"ll along. You know, it's lik"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2292.6,"endTime":2296.02,"body":", a, I come back to the music al"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2292.6,"endTime":2296.02,"body":"the time, it's like putting ou"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2296.02,"endTime":2298.36,"body":"a bunch of singles before yo"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2296.02,"endTime":2298.36,"body":"can make the album you don't qu"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2298.36,"endTime":2301.54,"body":"te know how to make the album ye"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2298.36,"endTime":2301.54,"body":", you know. And so..."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2309.94,"endTime":2312.1,"body":"they can't reproduce it for the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2309.94,"endTime":2312.1,"body":"rest of their lives."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2312.13,"endTime":2314.11,"body":"Yeaah, right,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2312.13,"endTime":2314.11,"body":"the one hit wonder."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2314.0,"endTime":2317.66,"body":"Yeah, I mean, and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2314.0,"endTime":2317.66,"body":"then they struggle. Again, you"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2317.66,"endTime":2320.18,"body":"can feel it. And when you're"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2317.66,"endTime":2320.18,"body":"when you're not like you feel"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2320.18,"endTime":2323.21,"body":"like it's not quite hitting,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2320.18,"endTime":2323.21,"body":"that's a natural part of the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2323.21,"endTime":2327.29,"body":"process. You should be"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2323.21,"endTime":2327.29,"body":"struggling, it's always going to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2327.29,"endTime":2331.61,"body":"be super hard. You're going to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2327.29,"endTime":2331.61,"body":"be really frustrated, you're"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2331.61,"endTime":2334.64,"body":"going to hear some yeses, you're"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2331.61,"endTime":2334.64,"body":"going to hear a lot of noes, or"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2334.64,"endTime":2337.07,"body":"you hear a lot of yeses in the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2334.64,"endTime":2337.07,"body":"beginning and then it's no for"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2337.07,"endTime":2340.4,"body":"the rest of your career, or no"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2337.07,"endTime":2340.4,"body":"all your life and then yes, at"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2340.4,"endTime":2346.7,"body":"the end, or a mix of it all. You"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2340.4,"endTime":2346.7,"body":"know, and I think that that"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2346.73,"endTime":2350.69,"body":"struggle is some you know, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2346.73,"endTime":2350.69,"body":"think there's a lot of people I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2350.69,"endTime":2354.29,"body":"can you know, I watch online, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2350.69,"endTime":2354.29,"body":"look at a lot of photographers"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2354.29,"endTime":2360.74,"body":"at a lot of different levels and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2354.29,"endTime":2360.74,"body":"they criticize the struggle. And"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2360.74,"endTime":2363.2,"body":"I think that what they need to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2360.74,"endTime":2363.2,"body":"do is look at the struggle and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2363.89,"endTime":2368.99,"body":"ask what did I do this time? And"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2363.89,"endTime":2368.99,"body":"what can I do that's different"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2369.02,"endTime":2369.68,"body":"the next time?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2370.02,"endTime":2373.29,"body":"Yeah, you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2370.02,"endTime":2373.29,"body":"solving a problem, you know, of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2373.29,"endTime":2377.67,"body":"your own work. So this is the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2373.29,"endTime":2377.67,"body":"last question. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2377.67,"endTime":2379.62,"body":"interested in your answer."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2377.67,"endTime":2379.62,"body":"Obviously. (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2381.21,"endTime":2381.87,"body":"I'm ready."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2383.97,"endTime":2386.82,"body":"What is your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2383.97,"endTime":2386.82,"body":"barometer for success in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2386.82,"endTime":2389.52,"body":"photography? Do you feel like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2386.82,"endTime":2389.52,"body":"you're there? Or do you feel"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2389.52,"endTime":2392.79,"body":"like you still have a lot more"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2389.52,"endTime":2392.79,"body":"that you need to do to feel"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2392.79,"endTime":2395.13,"body":"satisfied with your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2392.79,"endTime":2395.13,"body":"accomplishments?"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2397.01,"endTime":2398.84,"body":"Hmm, you ask these"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2397.01,"endTime":2398.84,"body":"hard questions. These are both"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2398.84,"endTime":2400.88,"body":"hard questions. They seem like"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2398.84,"endTime":2400.88,"body":"simple questions but they are"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2400.88,"endTime":2401.3,"body":"really, really hard."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2402.02,"endTime":2404.39,"body":"Well, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2402.02,"endTime":2404.39,"body":"and I know like, you've achieved"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2404.39,"endTime":2407.9,"body":"so many things and awards and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2404.39,"endTime":2407.9,"body":"Guggenheim, and you know, books"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2407.9,"endTime":2417.29,"body":"and so many opportunities. And,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2407.9,"endTime":2417.29,"body":"I mean, it is huge that you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2417.29,"endTime":2421.16,"body":"able to support yourself with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2417.29,"endTime":2421.16,"body":"your work, which is rare? So do"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2421.16,"endTime":2426.23,"body":"you feel like this is the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2421.16,"endTime":2426.23,"body":"success that you had always"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2426.35,"endTime":2431.06,"body":"wanted? Or does the bar kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2426.35,"endTime":2431.06,"body":"keep getting raised? In your own"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2431.06,"endTime":2431.21,"body":"hands?"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2431.27,"endTime":2434.09,"body":"Oh, I think that"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2431.27,"endTime":2434.09,"body":"that's a really great question."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2434.12,"endTime":2436.61,"body":"And there's no one answer, I'm"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2434.12,"endTime":2436.61,"body":"going to give a couple, I'm"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2436.61,"endTime":2442.31,"body":"going to give a couple of"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2436.61,"endTime":2442.31,"body":"thoughts here. I think that it's"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2442.31,"endTime":2450.62,"body":"true, I'm blessed I, I can never"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2442.31,"endTime":2450.62,"body":"really complain. You know, my"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2450.62,"endTime":2455.72,"body":"bio, when it's read as sort of"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2450.62,"endTime":2455.72,"body":"successes, can be looked at sort"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2455.72,"endTime":2458.75,"body":"of getting grants or other"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2455.72,"endTime":2458.75,"body":"people saying, Hey, we like your"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2458.75,"endTime":2464.48,"body":"work, we want to give you this"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2458.75,"endTime":2464.48,"body":"title. But I would say this, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2464.48,"endTime":2470.81,"body":"think that the greatest moment"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2464.48,"endTime":2470.81,"body":"of success is coming to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2470.81,"endTime":2476.81,"body":"understand who I am as an"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2470.81,"endTime":2476.81,"body":"artist, and how I can express"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2476.96,"endTime":2481.88,"body":"these feelings I have about"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2476.96,"endTime":2481.88,"body":"people in the world. And how I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2481.88,"endTime":2485.87,"body":"can make art that achieves all"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2481.88,"endTime":2485.87,"body":"of that. That's the success. I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2485.87,"endTime":2489.56,"body":"think that I think that there's"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2485.87,"endTime":2489.56,"body":"a lot of artists out there who"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2489.56,"endTime":2494.81,"body":"look at success as a grant, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2489.56,"endTime":2494.81,"body":"mean, a grant, there is there is"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2494.81,"endTime":2498.62,"body":"an element, or someone's"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2494.81,"endTime":2498.62,"body":"definition of that as a success."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2498.98,"endTime":2504.95,"body":"But I want people to know that"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2498.98,"endTime":2504.95,"body":"I'm I'm 52, and the struggle for"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2504.95,"endTime":2509.42,"body":"money. And I'm a I'm a very good"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2504.95,"endTime":2509.42,"body":"grant writer, I have been turned"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2509.42,"endTime":2513.23,"body":"down probably more than anyone,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2509.42,"endTime":2513.23,"body":"you know, fine, I have won some,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2513.23,"endTime":2515.6,"body":"but if I were to string my"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2513.23,"endTime":2515.6,"body":"grants together, I wouldn't even"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2515.6,"endTime":2519.11,"body":"be at the poverty level over 32"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2515.6,"endTime":2519.11,"body":"years, you know, of being a pro."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2519.5,"endTime":2529.73,"body":"So I think that being able to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2519.5,"endTime":2529.73,"body":"express my deep feelings as an"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2529.73,"endTime":2535.7,"body":"artist, in a way, that is, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2529.73,"endTime":2535.7,"body":"feel is uniquely mine, is the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2535.7,"endTime":2543.83,"body":"greatest success. And I'm able"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2535.7,"endTime":2543.83,"body":"to do it in a manner that has"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2543.83,"endTime":2547.94,"body":"taken me 32 years to realize,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2543.83,"endTime":2547.94,"body":"after college. That doesn't"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2547.94,"endTime":2550.73,"body":"count, I was in a great art"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2547.94,"endTime":2550.73,"body":"program in high school, and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2550.73,"endTime":2554.84,"body":"there's so much in there. And so"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2550.73,"endTime":2554.84,"body":"much of it is built on what some"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2554.84,"endTime":2557.57,"body":"people would deem as failures,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2554.84,"endTime":2557.57,"body":"so much. Some of them are"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2557.57,"endTime":2560.84,"body":"personal failures, like, you"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2557.57,"endTime":2560.84,"body":"know, anyone who's lost a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2560.84,"endTime":2563.57,"body":"parent, I'm like, God, I wish I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2560.84,"endTime":2563.57,"body":"could talk to my dad right now."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2563.99,"endTime":2566.66,"body":"There's that conversation, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2563.99,"endTime":2566.66,"body":"have so much regret. That's all"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2566.66,"endTime":2573.23,"body":"a part of who I am as an artist,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2566.66,"endTime":2573.23,"body":"or, you know, all I mean, there"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2573.23,"endTime":2576.95,"body":"are grants I've been applying"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2573.23,"endTime":2576.95,"body":"for for over 30 years. And I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2576.95,"endTime":2581.39,"body":"still get that letter. And"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2576.95,"endTime":2581.39,"body":"that's cool. Some people achieve"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2581.39,"endTime":2585.65,"body":"what I've achieved in shorter"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2581.39,"endTime":2585.65,"body":"time. But you know, I took a lot"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2585.65,"endTime":2590.03,"body":"longer. And I think that there's"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2585.65,"endTime":2590.03,"body":"a manner in which I can talk"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2590.03,"endTime":2593.72,"body":"about things that we all"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2590.03,"endTime":2593.72,"body":"experience and take photographs"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2593.72,"endTime":2599.12,"body":"that express that in a way that"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2593.72,"endTime":2599.12,"body":"I feel really is an expression"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2599.18,"endTime":2602.9,"body":"of my struggle, not being able"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2599.18,"endTime":2602.9,"body":"to realize that for a long time."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2604.4,"endTime":2608.36,"body":"And a small part of success is"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2604.4,"endTime":2608.36,"body":"Yeah, I make a living as an"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2608.36,"endTime":2612.68,"body":"artist so that, you know, I can"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2608.36,"endTime":2612.68,"body":"read a bunch of critical texts,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2612.71,"endTime":2616.73,"body":"I could watch films, and I can"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2612.71,"endTime":2616.73,"body":"live in that space where I'm"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2616.73,"endTime":2622.76,"body":"thinking about concepts and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2616.73,"endTime":2622.76,"body":"ideas and the tangible part of"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2622.76,"endTime":2627.5,"body":"it, like, I can make prints and"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2622.76,"endTime":2627.5,"body":"I can edit a book and that that"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2627.5,"endTime":2631.55,"body":"is a smaller success. But I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2627.5,"endTime":2631.55,"body":"think it's more about me"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2631.55,"endTime":2636.02,"body":"expressing my, my personal"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2631.55,"endTime":2636.02,"body":"feelings, and ideas about the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2636.02,"endTime":2639.77,"body":"world that I know a lot of"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2636.02,"endTime":2639.77,"body":"people feel the same about that"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2639.77,"endTime":2642.59,"body":"is that is the greatest success."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2639.77,"endTime":2642.59,"body":"I think if someone's going to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2642.59,"endTime":2645.65,"body":"pin their success on winning an"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2642.59,"endTime":2645.65,"body":"award or grant, which is just"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2645.65,"endTime":2650.99,"body":"part of the work, I think that"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2645.65,"endTime":2650.99,"body":"they need to sort of take a step"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2650.99,"endTime":2654.35,"body":"back and understand that when"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2650.99,"endTime":2654.35,"body":"you do get that grant, you know,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2655.97,"endTime":2659.12,"body":"a photography career isn't just"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2655.97,"endTime":2659.12,"body":"winning one award after five"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2659.12,"endTime":2661.97,"body":"years. A photography career"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2659.12,"endTime":2661.97,"body":"could be your whole lifetime. So"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2661.97,"endTime":2664.91,"body":"there better be a bigger"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2661.97,"endTime":2664.91,"body":"fundamental narrative, or you're"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2664.91,"endTime":2665.93,"body":"not going to last."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2667.09,"endTime":2669.31,"body":"It's just like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2667.09,"endTime":2669.31,"body":"anything else, right? Like you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2669.34,"endTime":2675.85,"body":"need to be able to self validate"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2669.34,"endTime":2675.85,"body":"not look only to external"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2676.0,"endTime":2680.5,"body":"sources for that, you know, for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2676.0,"endTime":2680.5,"body":"someone to tell you you're good."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2680.5,"endTime":2683.23,"body":"You need to, you know, from the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2680.5,"endTime":2683.23,"body":"inside know that you're good and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2683.23,"endTime":2687.76,"body":"not focus so much on what, what"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2683.23,"endTime":2687.76,"body":"other people think."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2689.01,"endTime":2690.99,"body":"Well, also Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2689.01,"endTime":2690.99,"body":"like, a lot of times, I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2690.99,"endTime":2694.59,"body":"God, you know, I'm finishing my"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2690.99,"endTime":2694.59,"body":"next feature documentary right"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2694.59,"endTime":2697.11,"body":"now. There are times like, you"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2694.59,"endTime":2697.11,"body":"know, watching it for the 30th"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2697.14,"endTime":2703.17,"body":"time making, correcting and I'm"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2697.14,"endTime":2703.17,"body":"like, thinking, God, this is"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2703.23,"endTime":2709.68,"body":"terrible. It's like editing some"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2703.23,"endTime":2709.68,"body":"work recently. I'm like, this is"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2709.83,"endTime":2713.97,"body":"horrible. But then you have to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2709.83,"endTime":2713.97,"body":"always remember your training."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2714.0,"endTime":2719.16,"body":"And I think that with training"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2714.0,"endTime":2719.16,"body":"comes, who are your mentors? Who"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2719.16,"endTime":2724.53,"body":"are your inspirations? I think"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2719.16,"endTime":2724.53,"body":"that, you know, right now I'm"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2724.53,"endTime":2729.84,"body":"mentoring a young photographer."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2724.53,"endTime":2729.84,"body":"And I try and think of what I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2729.84,"endTime":2733.29,"body":"can, what did I miss when I was"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2729.84,"endTime":2733.29,"body":"heading toward what I think is"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2733.29,"endTime":2737.07,"body":"my success right now? How can I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2733.29,"endTime":2737.07,"body":"help him achieve his? You know,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2737.22,"endTime":2739.08,"body":"what were some of the things I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2737.22,"endTime":2739.08,"body":"was like I wish someone would"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2739.08,"endTime":2742.44,"body":"have just helped me with that."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2739.08,"endTime":2742.44,"body":"You know, with that, that button"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2742.44,"endTime":2747.03,"body":"on the camera, it held me back"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2742.44,"endTime":2747.03,"body":"for 10 years. The idea was"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2747.03,"endTime":2748.65,"body":"there, but the execution bad."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2748.77,"endTime":2749.76,"body":"Right, right."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2748.77,"endTime":2749.76,"body":"(laughs)"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2749.99,"endTime":2757.16,"body":"So and, you know, in"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2749.99,"endTime":2757.16,"body":"short, what I always like to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2757.16,"endTime":2761.87,"body":"say, you know, this is me, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2757.16,"endTime":2761.87,"body":"never lose, I always win. When I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2761.87,"endTime":2764.63,"body":"get that grant letter saying,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2761.87,"endTime":2764.63,"body":"sorry, thanks for applying, you"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2764.63,"endTime":2768.2,"body":"didn't get it. I think, well, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2764.63,"endTime":2768.2,"body":"learned something about how I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2768.2,"endTime":2770.12,"body":"applied, I'm going to try"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2768.2,"endTime":2770.12,"body":"something different next time,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2770.24,"endTime":2772.79,"body":"or I'll apply to a different"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2770.24,"endTime":2772.79,"body":"grant. Or maybe that is a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2772.79,"endTime":2776.36,"body":"terrible edit. And no wonder I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2772.79,"endTime":2776.36,"body":"didn't get the grant. Though I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2776.36,"endTime":2779.57,"body":"did it. Or I reread my"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2776.36,"endTime":2779.57,"body":"statement,  Was I in a hurry,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2779.6,"endTime":2782.03,"body":"that was really bad, or well,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2779.6,"endTime":2782.03,"body":"eight grammar mistakes in his"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2782.03,"endTime":2787.82,"body":"grant proposal. You know? No one"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2782.03,"endTime":2787.82,"body":"runs at 100%, we're at best like"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2787.82,"endTime":2791.06,"body":"90, and then if we're having bad"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2787.82,"endTime":2791.06,"body":"days, or 80. So I think that we"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2791.06,"endTime":2793.61,"body":"always got to take a step back"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2791.06,"endTime":2793.61,"body":"and be self critical. I think"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2793.61,"endTime":2797.27,"body":"it's really important. And so"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2793.61,"endTime":2797.27,"body":"just when I have one success, I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2797.27,"endTime":2800.9,"body":"have 30 failures, even after 30"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2797.27,"endTime":2800.9,"body":"something years, I'll have"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2800.9,"endTime":2805.61,"body":"failures. And what brings me"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2800.9,"endTime":2805.61,"body":"back is I love other"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2805.61,"endTime":2808.88,"body":"photographers work. And that"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2805.61,"endTime":2808.88,"body":"always brings me back to why I"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2808.88,"endTime":2811.52,"body":"got into this because I love"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2808.88,"endTime":2811.52,"body":"being a photographer. I love"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2811.52,"endTime":2815.03,"body":"looking at photography. I love"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2811.52,"endTime":2815.03,"body":"how it makes me feel about the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2815.03,"endTime":2819.08,"body":"world. It's a unique language,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2815.03,"endTime":2819.08,"body":"whether it's documentary or"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2819.14,"endTime":2824.39,"body":"conceptual. If it's a melted"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2819.14,"endTime":2824.39,"body":"print, or just a straight silver"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2824.39,"endTime":2828.38,"body":"print, I can love it all because"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2824.39,"endTime":2828.38,"body":"it helps me understand the world"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2828.38,"endTime":2831.23,"body":"and I think that really that's"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2828.38,"endTime":2831.23,"body":"what we all need to gather"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2831.23,"endTime":2832.04,"body":"around as a community."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2833.29,"endTime":2837.07,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2833.29,"endTime":2837.07,"body":"You're so good at this. What"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2837.07,"endTime":2840.91,"body":"can't you do, Louie Palu? Well,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2837.07,"endTime":2840.91,"body":"I think I'm gonna end the..."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2840.97,"endTime":2841.9,"body":"That was kind of a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2840.97,"endTime":2841.9,"body":"good ending..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2842.8,"endTime":2845.26,"body":"Fuck yeah, that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2842.8,"endTime":2845.26,"body":"was strong."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2845.26,"endTime":2847.48,"body":"Well I was just"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2845.26,"endTime":2847.48,"body":"like, Louie, you better bring it"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2847.48,"endTime":2848.77,"body":"home man. Do not..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2848.8,"endTime":2850.12,"body":"Yeah, just get"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2848.8,"endTime":2850.12,"body":"in the zone! (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2850.0,"endTime":2851.86,"body":"You gotta edit the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2850.0,"endTime":2851.86,"body":"tory up but don't shit the bed"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2851.86,"endTime":2853.54,"body":"n this man, Jen's relying on"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2851.86,"endTime":2853.54,"body":"ou."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2861.01,"endTime":2863.17,"body":"Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2861.01,"endTime":2863.17,"body":"listening to the Perfect Bound"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2863.17,"endTime":2866.44,"body":"podcast. I hope you enjoyed it."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2863.17,"endTime":2866.44,"body":"And I hope you will tune in next"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2866.44,"endTime":2871.12,"body":"time. We release new episodes"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2866.44,"endTime":2871.12,"body":"every two weeks on Thursday. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2871.12,"endTime":2874.78,"body":"you can listen to past episodes"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2871.12,"endTime":2874.78,"body":"on the Yoffy Press website Yoffy"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2874.78,"endTime":2879.94,"body":"Press dot com slash podcast or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2874.78,"endTime":2879.94,"body":"on Apple podcast, Spotify, or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2879.94,"endTime":2883.54,"body":"anywhere else where you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2879.94,"endTime":2883.54,"body":"regularly listen to these types"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2883.54,"endTime":2887.68,"body":"of programs. Thank you again."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2883.54,"endTime":2887.68,"body":"And we will see you next time."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2895.25,"endTime":2897.59,"body":"Yeah, I'm sorry."},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2895.25,"endTime":2897.59,"body":"There's just, I'm  being"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2897.59,"endTime":2900.08,"body":"bombarded right now. And it's"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2897.59,"endTime":2900.08,"body":"like, wow, it's really nice to"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2900.08,"endTime":2910.55,"body":"see you. I feel like I know you"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2900.08,"endTime":2910.55,"body":"so well, that it's like you're a"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2910.55,"endTime":2914.63,"body":"part of how I think and live as"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2910.55,"endTime":2914.63,"body":"an artist. Like, we collaborate"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2914.63,"endTime":2917.66,"body":"on stuff. So you're always"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2914.63,"endTime":2917.66,"body":"you're always there. You're"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2917.66,"endTime":2920.54,"body":"always there for me and my"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2917.66,"endTime":2920.54,"body":"little artists circle, so I'd"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2920.54,"endTime":2924.29,"body":"like it. But then it's like, the"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2920.54,"endTime":2924.29,"body":"other part of me is like my God,"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2924.32,"endTime":2926.33,"body":"I haven't talked to her in so"},{"speaker":"Louie Palu","startTime":2924.32,"endTime":2926.33,"body":"long and seen her."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2926.33,"endTime":2928.16,"body":"I know, I know."}]}