{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":6.81,"endTime":8.7,"body":"Welcome to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":6.81,"endTime":8.7,"body":"Perfect Bound. I'm Jennifer"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":8.73,"endTime":11.46,"body":"Yoffy, the founder and publisher"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":8.73,"endTime":11.46,"body":"of Yoffy Press in Atlanta,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":11.46,"endTime":14.85,"body":"Georgia. This is a podcast where"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":11.46,"endTime":14.85,"body":"we talk to artists about their"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":14.85,"endTime":18.21,"body":"journey, how they got where they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":14.85,"endTime":18.21,"body":"are, what right and wrong turns"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":18.21,"endTime":20.61,"body":"they made along the way and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":18.21,"endTime":20.61,"body":"where they're heading next."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":27.77,"endTime":31.25,"body":"Alan Rapp is editorial director"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":27.77,"endTime":31.25,"body":"at Monacelli Press a division of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":31.25,"endTime":34.7,"body":"Phaidon. He's an editor, book"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":31.25,"endTime":34.7,"body":"developer and writer"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":34.73,"endTime":38.3,"body":"specializing in photography,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":34.73,"endTime":38.3,"body":"architecture and design. He"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":38.3,"endTime":41.06,"body":"started his visual book"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":38.3,"endTime":41.06,"body":"publishing career at Chronicle"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":41.06,"endTime":44.06,"body":"Books, where he developed the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":41.06,"endTime":44.06,"body":"photography list and published"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":44.06,"endTime":48.53,"body":"books by Eleanor Carucci, David"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":44.06,"endTime":48.53,"body":"Maisel, Jona Frank, Jim"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":48.53,"endTime":52.97,"body":"Marshall, Linda Conner, Henry"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":48.53,"endTime":52.97,"body":"Hornstein and others. Under the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":52.97,"endTime":55.7,"body":"Monacelli umbrella, he's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":52.97,"endTime":55.7,"body":"collaborated on new works by"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":55.7,"endTime":59.69,"body":"Eleanor Carucci, her book"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":55.7,"endTime":59.69,"body":"Midlife and Jona Frank - Cherry"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":59.69,"endTime":63.56,"body":"Hill, as well as Cig Harvey's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":59.69,"endTime":63.56,"body":"fourth book, Blue Violet. He's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":63.56,"endTime":66.05,"body":"contributed to several books,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":63.56,"endTime":66.05,"body":"and his writing has appeared in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":66.05,"endTime":68.54,"body":"numerous print and web"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":66.05,"endTime":68.54,"body":"publications, including The"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":68.54,"endTime":72.44,"body":"PhotoBook Review, Modern"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":68.54,"endTime":72.44,"body":"Painters, and Urban Omnibus."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":72.98,"endTime":76.4,"body":"Please welcome my friend Alan"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":72.98,"endTime":76.4,"body":"Rapp to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":85.25,"endTime":87.41,"body":"Okay, so you want to get"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":85.25,"endTime":87.41,"body":"started? Are you ready?"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":88.25,"endTime":89.51,"body":"Yes, let's do it."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":90.23,"endTime":93.89,"body":"So you started"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":90.23,"endTime":93.89,"body":"your love affair with books and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":93.89,"endTime":98.24,"body":"with publishing as a bookseller,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":93.89,"endTime":98.24,"body":"and then a publicity assistant."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":98.45,"endTime":101.72,"body":"So can you talk a little bit"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":98.45,"endTime":101.72,"body":"about how you transitioned into"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":101.72,"endTime":104.63,"body":"editing art books, because I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":101.72,"endTime":104.63,"body":"think that's really interesting"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":105.05,"endTime":107.63,"body":"that you started on one side of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":105.05,"endTime":107.63,"body":"it, and kind of got into the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":107.63,"endTime":110.12,"body":"more creative aspect over time."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":110.27,"endTime":115.4,"body":"Yeah, absolutely. Um,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":110.27,"endTime":115.4,"body":"so I went to school in Los"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":115.4,"endTime":119.48,"body":"Angeles, Loyola Marymount, and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":115.4,"endTime":119.48,"body":"that is partway through college."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":119.48,"endTime":124.64,"body":"But back into high school, I was"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":119.48,"endTime":124.64,"body":"I was a bookseller. And, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":124.64,"endTime":128.48,"body":"know, I was just really taken"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":124.64,"endTime":128.48,"body":"with what this company in San"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":128.48,"endTime":131.06,"body":"Francisco, Chronicle Books was"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":128.48,"endTime":131.06,"body":"doing, I was very familiar with"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":131.06,"endTime":135.92,"body":"them by the time I moved to San"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":131.06,"endTime":135.92,"body":"Francisco after college. And not"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":135.92,"endTime":140.99,"body":"knowing almost anything about"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":135.92,"endTime":140.99,"body":"publishing, I decided to apply"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":141.02,"endTime":144.29,"body":"and thought, you know, that's"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":141.02,"endTime":144.29,"body":"where that's where the editors"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":144.29,"endTime":148.19,"body":"go. And that's what you do,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":144.29,"endTime":148.19,"body":"really having no idea about any"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":148.19,"endTime":150.95,"body":"of the other dimensions. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":148.19,"endTime":150.95,"body":"you know, like, every, every"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":150.95,"endTime":153.68,"body":"film that has someone in"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":150.95,"endTime":153.68,"body":"publishing, they're an editor,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":153.71,"endTime":157.13,"body":"so I hadn't, you know...or"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":153.71,"endTime":157.13,"body":"Elaine from Seinfeld, or you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":157.13,"endTime":164.06,"body":"know, that's all there is. There"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":157.13,"endTime":164.06,"body":"were no positions open, and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":164.09,"endTime":168.17,"body":"there was a publicity assistant"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":164.09,"endTime":168.17,"body":"position open. And, and I, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":168.17,"endTime":171.47,"body":"know, learned a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":168.17,"endTime":171.47,"body":"that, as I was applying, and it"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":171.47,"endTime":174.56,"body":"started actually making a lot of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":171.47,"endTime":174.56,"body":"sense, because I was still going"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":174.56,"endTime":179.42,"body":"to be, you know, an interesting"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":174.56,"endTime":179.42,"body":"interface with authors at a time"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":179.42,"endTime":184.43,"body":"when their books are really"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":179.42,"endTime":184.43,"body":"already developed. And, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":184.43,"endTime":186.77,"body":"know, ready to sort of present"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":184.43,"endTime":186.77,"body":"in the marketplace in to the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":186.77,"endTime":190.76,"body":"media. And so that was a really"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":186.77,"endTime":190.76,"body":"interesting bridge of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":190.76,"endTime":195.2,"body":"kind of positioning and managing"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":190.76,"endTime":195.2,"body":"perceptions of just, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":195.2,"endTime":197.87,"body":"what, what these books are, and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":195.2,"endTime":197.87,"body":"what a project is."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":198.83,"endTime":201.05,"body":"Kind of, like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":198.83,"endTime":201.05,"body":"branding in a way."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":201.0,"endTime":205.29,"body":"Yeah, completely and,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":201.0,"endTime":205.29,"body":"and, you know, the basics, like"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":205.29,"endTime":209.43,"body":"writing, writing press releases,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":205.29,"endTime":209.43,"body":"which itself is a pretty, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":209.43,"endTime":214.95,"body":"know, daunting exercise, but a"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":209.43,"endTime":214.95,"body":"good skill to learn. And then,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":214.98,"endTime":219.24,"body":"you know, following up with"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":214.98,"endTime":219.24,"body":"media people as you're sending"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":219.24,"endTime":224.04,"body":"them books, pitching them books,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":219.24,"endTime":224.04,"body":"and at the same time, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":224.04,"endTime":227.58,"body":"I was an English major. And so I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":224.04,"endTime":227.58,"body":"was interested in writing and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":227.58,"endTime":233.25,"body":"started doing freelance writing"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":227.58,"endTime":233.25,"body":"for like, some of the music"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":233.25,"endTime":236.73,"body":"magazines, and some of the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":233.25,"endTime":236.73,"body":"counterculture magazines like"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":237.0,"endTime":240.48,"body":"Boing Boing, when it was still a"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":237.0,"endTime":240.48,"body":"print zine. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":240.48,"endTime":244.95,"body":"started hanging out with"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":240.48,"endTime":244.95,"body":"interesting people in the Bay"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":244.95,"endTime":249.12,"body":"Area, who would become the kind"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":244.95,"endTime":249.12,"body":"of like, not even the first"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":249.12,"endTime":251.49,"body":"wave. By the time I got there,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":249.12,"endTime":251.49,"body":"it was maybe like a second or"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":251.49,"endTime":255.42,"body":"third wave of this, sort of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":251.49,"endTime":255.42,"body":"like, technological utopians."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":256.11,"endTime":259.08,"body":"And the founding editors of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":256.11,"endTime":259.08,"body":"Wired Magazine, and that kind of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":259.08,"endTime":263.79,"body":"thing. So I was, at the same"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":259.08,"endTime":263.79,"body":"time just trying to stay"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":264.36,"endTime":268.44,"body":"creative, you know, thinking"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":264.36,"endTime":268.44,"body":"like, my, my work is this one"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":268.44,"endTime":271.59,"body":"thing, and yes, I'm writing but"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":268.44,"endTime":271.59,"body":"it's, you know, I'm trying to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":271.62,"endTime":275.16,"body":"keep my creative side over here"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":271.62,"endTime":275.16,"body":"and a bit of a sustained"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":275.16,"endTime":280.02,"body":"freelance practice. And so I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":275.16,"endTime":280.02,"body":"wrote on and off for those"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":280.02,"endTime":284.97,"body":"years, and the same time I was"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":280.02,"endTime":284.97,"body":"just encountering people in"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":284.97,"endTime":289.23,"body":"projects that seemed like I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":284.97,"endTime":289.23,"body":"mean, you know, by the time"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":289.26,"endTime":292.23,"body":"after a few years, I really"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":289.26,"endTime":292.23,"body":"understood the sensibility of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":292.23,"endTime":297.63,"body":"Chronicle. And I started"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":292.23,"endTime":297.63,"body":"encountering, you know, some"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":297.69,"endTime":302.16,"body":"people and ideas that seemed"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":297.69,"endTime":302.16,"body":"like they could be adapted to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":302.16,"endTime":306.42,"body":"books and started referring them"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":302.16,"endTime":306.42,"body":"to some editors at Chronicle,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":306.42,"endTime":313.5,"body":"some mentors of mine, like Annie"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":306.42,"endTime":313.5,"body":"Barrows, who was managing part"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":313.5,"endTime":316.38,"body":"of the photography list in the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":313.5,"endTime":316.38,"body":"90s. And you know, there still"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":316.38,"endTime":320.73,"body":"was a kind of interesting,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":316.38,"endTime":320.73,"body":"substantial photography list in"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":320.91,"endTime":324.51,"body":"Chronicle and other trade"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":320.91,"endTime":324.51,"body":"publishers at the time. So, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":324.51,"endTime":331.14,"body":"know, Joel Sternfeld, Sally"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":324.51,"endTime":331.14,"body":"Gall, Andrea Modica, like, those"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":331.14,"endTime":334.35,"body":"were some of the photographers"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":331.14,"endTime":334.35,"body":"that were being published by"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":334.35,"endTime":338.64,"body":"Chronicle. And so some of these"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":334.35,"endTime":338.64,"body":"projects that I was referring"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":338.64,"endTime":341.37,"body":"over actually started getting"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":338.64,"endTime":341.37,"body":"picked up. And, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":341.37,"endTime":344.97,"body":"realized that maybe I did have"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":341.37,"endTime":344.97,"body":"that kind of editorial"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":344.97,"endTime":350.16,"body":"sensibility. And when, when"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":344.97,"endTime":350.16,"body":"Annie left, it seemed like maybe"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":350.16,"endTime":354.87,"body":"a good position for me to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":350.16,"endTime":354.87,"body":"transition over to editorial."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":355.65,"endTime":360.24,"body":"And in a kind of interesting"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":355.65,"endTime":360.24,"body":"way, in that I was not starting"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":360.24,"endTime":363.63,"body":"kind of conventionally like, as"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":360.24,"endTime":363.63,"body":"an editorial assistant, or like"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":363.63,"endTime":367.56,"body":"an intern, I was, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":363.63,"endTime":367.56,"body":"little bit beyond that having"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":367.59,"endTime":372.57,"body":"already understood by then, now"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":367.59,"endTime":372.57,"body":"how the company works, and what"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":372.57,"endTime":378.0,"body":"the list really is, and where to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":372.57,"endTime":378.0,"body":"go. So it didn't start as an"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":378.0,"endTime":380.58,"body":"assistant. But at the same time,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":378.0,"endTime":380.58,"body":"I didn't really have a mentor."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":380.58,"endTime":382.23,"body":"So I was kind of, like, thrown"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":380.58,"endTime":382.23,"body":"into this."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":382.69,"endTime":383.35,"body":"Winging it."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":383.36,"endTime":387.41,"body":"Yeah, totally winging"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":383.36,"endTime":387.41,"body":"it. I made a lot of mistakes,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":387.47,"endTime":392.0,"body":"and, but started, you know, kind"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":387.47,"endTime":392.0,"body":"of cultivating an interesting"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":392.51,"endTime":396.71,"body":"little list of my own that when"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":392.51,"endTime":396.71,"body":"it started getting into"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":396.71,"endTime":400.73,"body":"photography - some of these were"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":396.71,"endTime":400.73,"body":"inherited or referred over"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":400.73,"endTime":405.47,"body":"projects. You know, someone like"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":400.73,"endTime":405.47,"body":"the late great, Jim Marshall"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":405.47,"endTime":409.64,"body":"would not have been kind of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":405.47,"endTime":409.64,"body":"like, you know, in my cohort at"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":409.64,"endTime":410.24,"body":"that time."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":410.279,"endTime":412.469,"body":"Yeah. How did"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":410.279,"endTime":412.469,"body":"you so I mean, you were an"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":412.469,"endTime":417.209,"body":"English major, and you? How did"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":412.469,"endTime":417.209,"body":"you connect with photography and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":417.209,"endTime":420.479,"body":"photographers? Like from the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":417.209,"endTime":420.479,"body":"writing aspect to the visual?"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":421.14,"endTime":425.79,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":421.14,"endTime":425.79,"body":"Well, part of it was that the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":425.79,"endTime":429.57,"body":"book selling job that I had in"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":425.79,"endTime":429.57,"body":"Los Angeles, or Santa Monica,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":429.57,"endTime":434.91,"body":"more proper was Hennessy +"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":429.57,"endTime":434.91,"body":"Engels, which is a great art,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":434.91,"endTime":439.08,"body":"design, architecture bookstore,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":434.91,"endTime":439.08,"body":"and then on the Third Street"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":439.08,"endTime":445.38,"body":"promenade, the sort of flagship"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":439.08,"endTime":445.38,"body":"store. And that was my"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":445.38,"endTime":450.21,"body":"introduction to the world of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":445.38,"endTime":450.21,"body":"visual books. And so I was kind"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":450.21,"endTime":457.47,"body":"of just getting into everything"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":450.21,"endTime":457.47,"body":"at that time. It was also a new"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":457.47,"endTime":462.06,"body":"arrangement in the early 90s,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":457.47,"endTime":462.06,"body":"that Phaidon was getting"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":462.06,"endTime":466.2,"body":"distributed by Chronicle Books"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":462.06,"endTime":466.2,"body":"in the US. And so there was this"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":466.2,"endTime":471.33,"body":"new, kind of, like bigger world,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":466.2,"endTime":471.33,"body":"at Chronicle of you know, this"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":471.36,"endTime":474.0,"body":"prestige, although kind of like,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":471.36,"endTime":474.0,"body":"you know, reinventing itself at"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":474.0,"endTime":478.38,"body":"the time, art publisher, and so"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":474.0,"endTime":478.38,"body":"it was kind of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":478.38,"endTime":482.19,"body":"getting closer to those books as"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":478.38,"endTime":482.19,"body":"well. And they, you know, over"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":482.19,"endTime":485.13,"body":"the term of the last few"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":482.19,"endTime":485.13,"body":"decades, the irony being that"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":485.13,"endTime":489.96,"body":"now, Monacelli were I'm"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":485.13,"endTime":489.96,"body":"editorial director is owned by"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":489.96,"endTime":496.26,"body":"Phaidon. So there was kind of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":489.96,"endTime":496.26,"body":"like a long arc. But it was a"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":496.26,"endTime":500.16,"body":"kind of, you know, interest of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":496.26,"endTime":500.16,"body":"mine on the side, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":500.16,"endTime":505.41,"body":"really have training for it. But"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":500.16,"endTime":505.41,"body":"that that is, you know, school"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":505.41,"endTime":510.15,"body":"training, but then just working"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":505.41,"endTime":510.15,"body":"at such a, you know, uniquely"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":510.15,"endTime":515.16,"body":"visual publisher like Chronicle"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":510.15,"endTime":515.16,"body":"was itself like my, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":515.19,"endTime":515.43,"body":"education."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":515.46,"endTime":516.39,"body":"Yeah, on the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":515.46,"endTime":516.39,"body":"job..."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":517.23,"endTime":517.71,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":518.64,"endTime":521.34,"body":"Of all the photo"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":518.64,"endTime":521.34,"body":"books you worked with, during"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":521.34,"endTime":524.76,"body":"your time at Chronicle, what,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":521.34,"endTime":524.76,"body":"can you tell us about a couple"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":524.79,"endTime":528.12,"body":"of your favorite experiences and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":524.79,"endTime":528.12,"body":"what made them so meaningful to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":528.12,"endTime":528.39,"body":"you?"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":529.68,"endTime":533.73,"body":"Yeah, absolutely. Um,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":529.68,"endTime":533.73,"body":"some of these are with artists"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":533.73,"endTime":537.03,"body":"who I have continued to work"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":533.73,"endTime":537.03,"body":"with over the years. So,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":537.54,"endTime":544.41,"body":"interesting, interesting details"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":537.54,"endTime":544.41,"body":"there. I got to know Elinor"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":544.41,"endTime":551.94,"body":"Carucci when she was developing"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":544.41,"endTime":551.94,"body":"her first body of work and was"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":551.94,"endTime":556.71,"body":"shopping it around, came into"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":551.94,"endTime":556.71,"body":"Chronicle as she was on a trip"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":556.71,"endTime":561.96,"body":"to San Francisco and you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":556.71,"endTime":561.96,"body":"just really, you know, presented"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":561.96,"endTime":567.06,"body":"this at the time, you know, very"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":561.96,"endTime":567.06,"body":"daring, very bold but also just,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":567.09,"endTime":570.12,"body":"you know, so personal and so"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":567.09,"endTime":570.12,"body":"intimate and kind of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":570.12,"endTime":574.35,"body":"really personally accessible"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":570.12,"endTime":574.35,"body":"even for me as a you know, as"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":574.35,"endTime":579.54,"body":"man, but with the kind of, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":574.35,"endTime":579.54,"body":"know, universal access to these,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":580.29,"endTime":584.64,"body":"you know, glimpses at these"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":580.29,"endTime":584.64,"body":"familial relationships, love"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":584.64,"endTime":588.9,"body":"partner relationships, and it"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":584.64,"endTime":588.9,"body":"was just, you know, incredibly"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":588.9,"endTime":593.61,"body":"striking and for me, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":588.9,"endTime":593.61,"body":"kind of a new generation was"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":593.61,"endTime":598.68,"body":"sort of, you know, in in her"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":593.61,"endTime":598.68,"body":"work was presenting itself and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":600.36,"endTime":602.7,"body":"Elinor and I really hit it off."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":603.38,"endTime":606.83,"body":"Yeah, has there"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":603.38,"endTime":606.83,"body":"ever been a more lovely human"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":606.83,"endTime":612.35,"body":"being than Elinor Carucci I've"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":606.83,"endTime":612.35,"body":"never heard anyone do anything"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":612.35,"endTime":617.54,"body":"other than gush about how"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":612.35,"endTime":617.54,"body":"wonderful she is, with good"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":617.54,"endTime":623.81,"body":"reason. She is amazing. And just"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":617.54,"endTime":623.81,"body":"and so open and accessible as an"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":624.32,"endTime":625.91,"body":"artist, as a person."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":626.44,"endTime":630.22,"body":"Very generous, a"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":626.44,"endTime":630.22,"body":"great friend. But also, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":630.22,"endTime":636.28,"body":"know, it's no surprise that she"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":630.22,"endTime":636.28,"body":"is like, an incredibly inspiring"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":636.28,"endTime":640.78,"body":"teacher, she inspires incredible"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":636.28,"endTime":640.78,"body":"loyalty to you know, her"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":640.81,"endTime":645.1,"body":"students and just, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":640.81,"endTime":645.1,"body":"people who work with her. And I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":645.1,"endTime":647.44,"body":"think there was just, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":645.1,"endTime":647.44,"body":"something to be said, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":647.44,"endTime":650.71,"body":"it's so tricky when it gets into"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":647.44,"endTime":650.71,"body":"art, and you're talking about,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":651.31,"endTime":653.8,"body":"you know, the truth of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":651.31,"endTime":653.8,"body":"photography, and that kind of,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":653.86,"endTime":657.19,"body":"you know, is there, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":653.86,"endTime":657.19,"body":"can you even establish a sort of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":657.19,"endTime":661.21,"body":"baseline of sort of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":657.19,"endTime":661.21,"body":"philosophical truth in"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":661.21,"endTime":665.59,"body":"photography? I would, I would"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":661.21,"endTime":665.59,"body":"argue, no, and yet we, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":665.59,"endTime":670.24,"body":"I keep coming back to work that"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":665.59,"endTime":670.24,"body":"is this representation of real"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":670.24,"endTime":675.82,"body":"life that is, you know, feels,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":670.24,"endTime":675.82,"body":"if it's not true, it's at least"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":675.85,"endTime":676.54,"body":"honest."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":677.5,"endTime":678.79,"body":"Yes, yes, yes,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":677.5,"endTime":678.79,"body":"yes."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":678.93,"endTime":681.69,"body":"And I think Elinor's"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":678.93,"endTime":681.69,"body":"work was helping, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":681.69,"endTime":685.65,"body":"articulate those kind of, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":681.69,"endTime":685.65,"body":"know, huge philosophical ideas"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":685.65,"endTime":691.38,"body":"really, in a way that I could"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":685.65,"endTime":691.38,"body":"personally interpret them. And"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":693.09,"endTime":697.83,"body":"you know, it just was a really"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":693.09,"endTime":697.83,"body":"great development and you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":697.83,"endTime":701.61,"body":"in down to she loves"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":697.83,"endTime":701.61,"body":"collaborating on the level of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":701.61,"endTime":704.22,"body":"the edit and the sequence with"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":701.61,"endTime":704.22,"body":"me, you know, I learned a lot"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":704.25,"endTime":713.07,"body":"just through that process. And,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":704.25,"endTime":713.07,"body":"and so we debuted Closer as the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":713.1,"endTime":721.29,"body":"body of work was published, in I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":713.1,"endTime":721.29,"body":"believe, 1999. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":721.29,"endTime":724.35,"body":"forgetting, not always great"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":721.29,"endTime":724.35,"body":"with memory and dates, but I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":724.35,"endTime":731.37,"body":"think thats the case and then"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":724.35,"endTime":731.37,"body":"it, you know, really kind of did"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":731.37,"endTime":735.12,"body":"its own thing, it made its own"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":731.37,"endTime":735.12,"body":"impression in the photography"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":735.12,"endTime":738.45,"body":"book world at the time. And so"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":735.12,"endTime":738.45,"body":"we, you know, it was very proud"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":738.45,"endTime":740.79,"body":"to be able to bring that..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":740.79,"endTime":743.46,"body":"Everyone was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":740.79,"endTime":743.46,"body":"like that Alan Rapp is a genius."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":744.45,"endTime":749.01,"body":"Then, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":744.45,"endTime":749.01,"body":"mean, just one back story detail"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":744.48,"endTime":744.51,"body":"(laughs)"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":749.01,"endTime":753.42,"body":"there is that, I presented it,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":749.01,"endTime":753.42,"body":"and it was not immediately"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":753.42,"endTime":757.86,"body":"picked up. You know, I think it"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":753.42,"endTime":757.86,"body":"was perceived, rightly so I was"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":757.23,"endTime":957.21,"body":"Right, or the person having to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":757.23,"endTime":957.21,"body":"write the press release."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":757.86,"endTime":762.0,"body":"like, this kind of bold, there's"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":757.86,"endTime":762.0,"body":"a lot of nudity in this book,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":762.0,"endTime":765.09,"body":"there's nudity on, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":762.0,"endTime":765.09,"body":"mean, ultimately, there was"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":765.12,"endTime":771.0,"body":"nudity on the cover. But, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":765.12,"endTime":771.0,"body":"know, it's it did make an"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":771.0,"endTime":776.88,"body":"impression, and it did not, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":771.0,"endTime":776.88,"body":"know, we didn't immediately pick"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":776.88,"endTime":780.24,"body":"it up, after a year, Elinor came"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":776.88,"endTime":780.24,"body":"back, and was further developing"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":780.24,"endTime":783.63,"body":"the work. And there was just a"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":780.24,"endTime":783.63,"body":"lot of evidence, I mean, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":783.63,"endTime":787.95,"body":"know, it was partly in the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":783.63,"endTime":787.95,"body":"publishing, you know, scheme,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":787.95,"endTime":793.35,"body":"you have to present not just the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":787.95,"endTime":793.35,"body":"value of the artist in terms of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":793.98,"endTime":798.57,"body":"the art is great, but just, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":793.98,"endTime":798.57,"body":"know, the position in the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":798.57,"endTime":801.42,"body":"market. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":798.57,"endTime":801.42,"body":"commercially she was also"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":803.19,"endTime":807.84,"body":"getting interesting projects,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":803.19,"endTime":807.84,"body":"and, you know, was represented,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":807.84,"endTime":810.21,"body":"there was just more evidence"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":807.84,"endTime":810.21,"body":"that this is a young artist who"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":810.24,"endTime":814.8,"body":"is going to be going somewhere,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":810.24,"endTime":814.8,"body":"and I've thought of this as we"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":814.8,"endTime":818.91,"body":"have the opportunity to publish"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":814.8,"endTime":818.91,"body":"the first book by this artist,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":818.91,"endTime":823.08,"body":"and that's a distinction that"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":818.91,"endTime":823.08,"body":"never goes away, there's always,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":823.11,"endTime":828.99,"body":"you know, the first book is alw"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":823.11,"endTime":828.99,"body":"ys with a certain publisher."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":828.99,"endTime":832.17,"body":"nd so, you know, we could be p"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":828.99,"endTime":832.17,"body":"rt of that. And I think, afte"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":832.17,"endTime":834.78,"body":"a year, it actually just made m"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":832.17,"endTime":834.78,"body":"re sense to people. And I th"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":834.78,"endTime":837.96,"body":"nk that, you know, maybe there"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":834.78,"endTime":837.96,"body":"as just a little bit of a,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":837.96,"endTime":843.33,"body":"ou know, early seeding that kind"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":837.96,"endTime":843.33,"body":"of ultimately flowered. But t"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":843.33,"endTime":849.54,"body":"at helped, I think, creat"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":843.33,"endTime":849.54,"body":"a certain sensibility for m"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":849.54,"endTime":854.01,"body":"re photography books at Chroni"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":849.54,"endTime":854.01,"body":"le that could do certain thin"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":854.04,"endTime":857.91,"body":"s. And it was, even if"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":854.04,"endTime":857.91,"body":"he subsequent projects were rea"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":857.94,"endTime":863.01,"body":"ly nothing like it, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":857.94,"endTime":863.01,"body":"he other books that I went on"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":863.01,"endTime":868.26,"body":"to make with like, David Maisel"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":863.01,"endTime":868.26,"body":"is Library of Dust project, wh"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":868.32,"endTime":872.85,"body":"ch is, you know, an incredi"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":868.32,"endTime":872.85,"body":"ly striking and hard to encapsul"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":872.97,"endTime":880.08,"body":"te project of portraits of cop"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":872.97,"endTime":880.08,"body":"er canisters that had hu"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":880.17,"endTime":889.95,"body":"an cremated remains from patie"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":880.17,"endTime":889.95,"body":"ts who were interred at a Portla"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":890.25,"endTime":893.88,"body":"d, Oregon psychological hospit"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":890.25,"endTime":893.88,"body":"l, and had been sort of, you kn"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":893.88,"endTime":898.86,"body":"w, no next of kin to pick up th"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":893.88,"endTime":898.86,"body":"se remains and so they had b"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":898.86,"endTime":905.79,"body":"en cremated and you know, kept"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":898.86,"endTime":905.79,"body":"n, in a vault or a room in th"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":905.79,"endTime":909.84,"body":"se canisters for decades, and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":905.79,"endTime":909.84,"body":"it started becoming public t"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":909.84,"endTime":914.37,"body":"at there was this, you know"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":909.84,"endTime":914.37,"body":"a scandal really that, you kn"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":914.37,"endTime":916.8,"body":"w, there were there were th"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":914.37,"endTime":916.8,"body":"se conditions at the hospital"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":917.4,"endTime":923.34,"body":"nd David accessed the hospital"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":917.4,"endTime":923.34,"body":"nd made this very moving, v"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":923.34,"endTime":927.93,"body":"ry provocative body of work of j"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":923.34,"endTime":927.93,"body":"st these canisters themselv"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":927.93,"endTime":932.49,"body":"s, which had, over time, t"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":927.93,"endTime":932.49,"body":"en subjected to water, humidi"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":932.49,"endTime":936.48,"body":"y, and we're kind of l"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":932.49,"endTime":936.48,"body":"ke fluorescing, like, l"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":936.48,"endTime":940.32,"body":"ke batteries when they go bad."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":936.48,"endTime":940.32,"body":"nd so it's, again, hard"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":940.32,"endTime":947.22,"body":"to encapsulate. And, you kn"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":940.32,"endTime":947.22,"body":"w, think of things, you know, p"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":947.22,"endTime":950.58,"body":"ty the the poor young editor wh"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":947.22,"endTime":950.58,"body":"'s about to present this project"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":950.58,"endTime":952.35,"body":"to an editorial board"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":957.0,"endTime":960.63,"body":"Yeah, yeah. And the editorial"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":957.0,"endTime":960.63,"body":"director, I think, asked if I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":960.63,"endTime":966.99,"body":"was trying to spiritually test"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":960.63,"endTime":966.99,"body":"her. It was a great response."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":966.99,"endTime":971.73,"body":"But, you know, again, there was"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":966.99,"endTime":971.73,"body":"this kind of idea of making a,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":971.97,"endTime":977.49,"body":"making a book out of some, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":971.97,"endTime":977.49,"body":"know, ineffable project that,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":978.21,"endTime":981.39,"body":"you know, someone with real"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":978.21,"endTime":981.39,"body":"dedication envision was putting"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":981.39,"endTime":987.36,"body":"together and so that was, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":981.39,"endTime":987.36,"body":"that kind of, you know, books"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":987.36,"endTime":991.35,"body":"like that helped me develop this"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":987.36,"endTime":991.35,"body":"sensibility of the kinds of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":991.35,"endTime":996.66,"body":"books I would still continue to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":991.35,"endTime":996.66,"body":"want to do today. And sometimes"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":996.66,"endTime":997.92,"body":"I have opportunities to."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":998.31,"endTime":1000.74,"body":"Yeah, and it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":998.31,"endTime":1000.74,"body":"really fortunate that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1001.37,"endTime":1006.83,"body":"both David and Elinor had you as"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1001.37,"endTime":1006.83,"body":"a advocate, because, again, it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1008.54,"endTime":1013.46,"body":"the quick read would be this is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1008.54,"endTime":1013.46,"body":"too much, too hard, too"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1013.49,"endTime":1014.72,"body":"challenging, potentially."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1014.0,"endTime":1018.35,"body":"Potentially, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1014.0,"endTime":1018.35,"body":"again, as this, you know, the,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1018.65,"endTime":1022.52,"body":"the market transition, that was"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1018.65,"endTime":1022.52,"body":"sort of a, you know, slow burn,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1022.91,"endTime":1027.74,"body":"also, in terms of, did visual"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1022.91,"endTime":1027.74,"body":"trade publishers really want to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1027.74,"endTime":1032.6,"body":"keep doing those kinds of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1027.74,"endTime":1032.6,"body":"photography books, if they're,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1033.05,"endTime":1036.17,"body":"you know, hard to package, hard"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1033.05,"endTime":1036.17,"body":"to sell, complicated to make,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1036.17,"endTime":1041.54,"body":"expensive to produce, higher"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1036.17,"endTime":1041.54,"body":"price points, specialized"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1041.57,"endTime":1046.31,"body":"audience, like all these things"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1041.57,"endTime":1046.31,"body":"that are sort of counter to, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1046.31,"endTime":1050.24,"body":"know, larger scale trade"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1046.31,"endTime":1050.24,"body":"publishing wisdom, right?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1050.45,"endTime":1054.47,"body":"Absolutely. It's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1050.45,"endTime":1054.47,"body":"counter to all wisdom, actually."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1054.47,"endTime":1054.95,"body":"(laughs) All logic and reason."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1056.18,"endTime":1060.95,"body":"Yeah, exactly. And"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1056.18,"endTime":1060.95,"body":"so, yeah, I think think of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1060.95,"endTime":1064.22,"body":"yourself as a publisher and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1060.95,"endTime":1064.22,"body":"thinking, you know, all of the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1064.22,"endTime":1069.53,"body":"constraints and, you know, all"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1064.22,"endTime":1069.53,"body":"the opportunities too, but you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1069.53,"endTime":1074.39,"body":"have to kind of have a certain,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1069.53,"endTime":1074.39,"body":"you know, dedicated method to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1075.08,"endTime":1079.1,"body":"justify going and going in these"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1075.08,"endTime":1079.1,"body":"directions, right?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1079.43,"endTime":1083.69,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1079.43,"endTime":1083.69,"body":"absolutely. So, kind of, to that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1084.41,"endTime":1088.28,"body":"point a little bit, you've seen"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1084.41,"endTime":1088.28,"body":"the publishing industry change a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1088.28,"endTime":1091.91,"body":"lot during your time working in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1088.28,"endTime":1091.91,"body":"it. So what changes have you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1091.91,"endTime":1095.15,"body":"seen for the better and what"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1091.91,"endTime":1095.15,"body":"have you seen for the worse?"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1095.93,"endTime":1100.73,"body":"Um, I mean, this is"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1095.93,"endTime":1100.73,"body":"also not a novel factor. And,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1100.76,"endTime":1104.69,"body":"you know, we, we deal with it in"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1100.76,"endTime":1104.69,"body":"the, the artists that we, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1104.69,"endTime":1108.08,"body":"know, know, and are friendly"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1104.69,"endTime":1108.08,"body":"with and talk to, and work with"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1108.08,"endTime":1113.63,"body":"all the time, but the kind of,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1108.08,"endTime":1113.63,"body":"you know, real viability in the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1113.63,"endTime":1119.93,"body":"rise of self publishing, is"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1113.63,"endTime":1119.93,"body":"something that I think, is, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1119.93,"endTime":1122.09,"body":"know, it's still, even though"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1119.93,"endTime":1122.09,"body":"it's not new, it's still kind of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1122.09,"endTime":1128.12,"body":"feels new, in a way. And artists"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1122.09,"endTime":1128.12,"body":"are doing, you know, continue to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1128.12,"endTime":1132.26,"body":"kind of, like, do different"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1128.12,"endTime":1132.26,"body":"things with it in terms of not"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1132.26,"endTime":1136.46,"body":"hewing to conventions or"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1132.26,"endTime":1136.46,"body":"formats, or, you know, and going"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1136.46,"endTime":1138.56,"body":"in pretty interesting"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1136.46,"endTime":1138.56,"body":"directions."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1139.58,"endTime":1142.91,"body":"It's like, it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1139.58,"endTime":1142.91,"body":"not new, but it's, it's becoming"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1142.91,"endTime":1148.04,"body":"more and more validated, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1142.91,"endTime":1148.04,"body":"kind of the rules are getting"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1148.04,"endTime":1150.26,"body":"more broken, I guess, for lack"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1148.04,"endTime":1150.26,"body":"of a better, you know, like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1150.26,"endTime":1153.71,"body":"there's the boundaries are"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1150.26,"endTime":1153.71,"body":"getting pushed in a very"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1153.71,"endTime":1157.28,"body":"exciting and acceptable way."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1158.29,"endTime":1162.55,"body":"Absolutely. And then,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1158.29,"endTime":1162.55,"body":"you know, but the, the thing"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1162.55,"endTime":1166.36,"body":"that is tricky about that is"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1162.55,"endTime":1166.36,"body":"just the atomization within the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1166.36,"endTime":1172.09,"body":"market of you know, how how can"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1166.36,"endTime":1172.09,"body":"you get, you know, with with our"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1172.09,"endTime":1176.89,"body":"attention spans shot as they are"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1172.09,"endTime":1176.89,"body":"for so many reasons these days,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1177.73,"endTime":1181.21,"body":"you know, how do you keep on top"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1177.73,"endTime":1181.21,"body":"of some of some of this, and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1181.21,"endTime":1184.93,"body":"where do you go especially, I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1181.21,"endTime":1184.93,"body":"mean, you know, pandemic is"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1184.96,"endTime":1188.2,"body":"obviously a factor in all"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1184.96,"endTime":1188.2,"body":"things, but, you know, what are"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1188.2,"endTime":1193.72,"body":"the ways in which we can"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1188.2,"endTime":1193.72,"body":"encounter this work? That,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1193.9,"endTime":1197.02,"body":"especially if you know, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1193.9,"endTime":1197.02,"body":"don't, you don't live, for"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1197.02,"endTime":1201.85,"body":"example, in a city with an"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1197.02,"endTime":1201.85,"body":"annual art book fair or Canada,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1202.03,"endTime":1208.9,"body":"right? So I think those are some"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1202.03,"endTime":1208.9,"body":"of the changes that are amazing"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1208.9,"endTime":1213.01,"body":"and, and just the, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1208.9,"endTime":1213.01,"body":"access and availability to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1214.9,"endTime":1217.72,"body":"printing and publishing"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1214.9,"endTime":1217.72,"body":"technologies and platforms is"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1217.72,"endTime":1222.43,"body":"great, as well. But, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1217.72,"endTime":1222.43,"body":"there again, the downside is"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1222.43,"endTime":1226.6,"body":"that there's something to be"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1222.43,"endTime":1226.6,"body":"said for the kind of like, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1226.6,"endTime":1230.44,"body":"know, classical model, the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1226.6,"endTime":1230.44,"body":"traditional model of artists who"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1230.44,"endTime":1233.86,"body":"are publishing through"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1230.44,"endTime":1233.86,"body":"publishers with an editor or"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1233.86,"endTime":1238.21,"body":"collaborating to a degree, even"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1233.86,"endTime":1238.21,"body":"collaborating with a designer"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1238.21,"endTime":1242.35,"body":"who knows their way around as,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1238.21,"endTime":1242.35,"body":"you know, production and, and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1242.35,"endTime":1248.56,"body":"publishing and packaging. So"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1242.35,"endTime":1248.56,"body":"there's, there's not always the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1248.59,"endTime":1253.78,"body":"kind of grounding for artists to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1248.59,"endTime":1253.78,"body":"know, just, you know, how to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1253.78,"endTime":1257.29,"body":"begin, what to do. And maybe and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1253.78,"endTime":1257.29,"body":"maybe that's pretty cool, like,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1257.29,"endTime":1260.59,"body":"just DIY and, and punk rock. And"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1257.29,"endTime":1260.59,"body":"that can result in really"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1260.59,"endTime":1264.85,"body":"interesting projects, too. But,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1260.59,"endTime":1264.85,"body":"you know, there again, you see,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1264.85,"endTime":1274.54,"body":"sometimes someone who could use"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1264.85,"endTime":1274.54,"body":"a partner or a guidance on what"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1274.54,"endTime":1277.87,"body":"it is to edit and sequence and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1274.54,"endTime":1277.87,"body":"what the conventions and history"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1278.47,"endTime":1282.07,"body":"of the dimensions are, and books"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1278.47,"endTime":1282.07,"body":"and why certain things are the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1282.07,"endTime":1287.05,"body":"way they are, which themselves,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1282.07,"endTime":1287.05,"body":"you know, are you know, not"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1287.05,"endTime":1291.67,"body":"superfluous often. So I think"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1287.05,"endTime":1291.67,"body":"I've mentioned to you I had done"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1291.67,"endTime":1296.32,"body":"some workshops with, with some"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1291.67,"endTime":1296.32,"body":"artists that I was working with,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1296.53,"endTime":1302.44,"body":"like, David, and like Elinor and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1296.53,"endTime":1302.44,"body":"Cig Harvey, and Jen Davis, on,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1304.6,"endTime":1309.13,"body":"on these collaborations between"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1304.6,"endTime":1309.13,"body":"an editor and an artist, because"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1309.13,"endTime":1313.27,"body":"I thought that would be a kind"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1309.13,"endTime":1313.27,"body":"of valuable workshop where"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1314.56,"endTime":1317.08,"body":"people don't always hear from"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1314.56,"endTime":1317.08,"body":"the publishing side."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1317.3,"endTime":1321.35,"body":"Right, right."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1317.3,"endTime":1321.35,"body":"More from the designer, if"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1321.35,"endTime":1322.19,"body":"anything, yeah."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1322.91,"endTime":1327.71,"body":"And, you know, a lot"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1322.91,"endTime":1327.71,"body":"of photography pedagogy is"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1327.98,"endTime":1330.77,"body":"taught by other photographers,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1327.98,"endTime":1330.77,"body":"and that is also valuable when"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1330.77,"endTime":1333.68,"body":"those photographers have"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1330.77,"endTime":1333.68,"body":"publishing experience. But, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1333.68,"endTime":1336.08,"body":"know, I was just kind of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1333.68,"endTime":1336.08,"body":"inserting myself in the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1336.08,"endTime":1338.81,"body":"photographers realm, as a kind"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1336.08,"endTime":1338.81,"body":"of, you know, there are some"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1338.81,"endTime":1343.49,"body":"other things you might benefit"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1338.81,"endTime":1343.49,"body":"from learning. And those were,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1343.52,"endTime":1346.85,"body":"you know, those were always"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1343.52,"endTime":1346.85,"body":"really valuable for me, too, it"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1346.85,"endTime":1351.53,"body":"was getting exposed to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1346.85,"endTime":1351.53,"body":"interesting and some amazing"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1351.56,"endTime":1354.41,"body":"photographers, and just, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1351.56,"endTime":1354.41,"body":"know, learning a lot through the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1354.41,"endTime":1357.53,"body":"exposure to more work in that"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1354.41,"endTime":1357.53,"body":"context. So I always loved"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1357.53,"endTime":1357.89,"body":"those."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1358.44,"endTime":1361.38,"body":"Yeah, I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1358.44,"endTime":1361.38,"body":"it was super helpful. What do"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1361.38,"endTime":1365.4,"body":"you feel like you brought to the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1361.38,"endTime":1365.4,"body":"table in that situation? Like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1365.4,"endTime":1369.36,"body":"what are some of the things that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1365.4,"endTime":1369.36,"body":"a photographer might not or, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1369.36,"endTime":1374.67,"body":"know, someone looking to publish"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1369.36,"endTime":1374.67,"body":"their work might not know, that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1374.67,"endTime":1376.62,"body":"would be helpful to hear from"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1374.67,"endTime":1376.62,"body":"the publishing side?"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1379.0,"endTime":1383.74,"body":"I mean, just, in some"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1379.0,"endTime":1383.74,"body":"cases, a little bit more of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1383.77,"endTime":1391.96,"body":"prompting students or these"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1383.77,"endTime":1391.96,"body":"photographers to get into the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1391.96,"endTime":1397.3,"body":"conventions a little more and,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1391.96,"endTime":1397.3,"body":"and ask themselves, What is"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1397.3,"endTime":1402.46,"body":"going on? And, you know, it's a"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1397.3,"endTime":1402.46,"body":"really basic exercise. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1402.94,"endTime":1405.49,"body":"we all have our favorite books,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1402.94,"endTime":1405.49,"body":"we have our favorite photography"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1405.49,"endTime":1410.53,"body":"books. Can you explain what"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1405.49,"endTime":1410.53,"body":"exactly it is about this book"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1410.56,"endTime":1413.8,"body":"that is, you know, making it one"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1410.56,"endTime":1413.8,"body":"of your favorites."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1414.19,"endTime":1417.13,"body":"Right, what's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1414.19,"endTime":1417.13,"body":"working for you."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1415.49,"endTime":1419.517,"body":"Some of that is kind"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1415.49,"endTime":1419.517,"body":"of, you know, people not seeing"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1419.594,"endTime":1424.628,"body":"immediately, which is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1419.594,"endTime":1424.628,"body":"itself a function of good design"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1424.706,"endTime":1429.353,"body":"is like, design that you don't"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1424.706,"endTime":1429.353,"body":"totally notice, but sometimes"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1429.43,"endTime":1433.999,"body":"it's a kind of function of the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1429.43,"endTime":1433.999,"body":"graphic design or production"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1430.44,"endTime":1474.09,"body":"(Sirens can be heard in the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1430.44,"endTime":1474.09,"body":"audio) Is someone getting"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1434.077,"endTime":1438.646,"body":"elements, or just, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1434.077,"endTime":1438.646,"body":"the, just seeing a very basic,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1438.724,"endTime":1442.983,"body":"but really, you know, tight"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1438.724,"endTime":1442.983,"body":"sequence and relationships."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1443.061,"endTime":1447.63,"body":"Inner relationships between"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1443.061,"endTime":1447.63,"body":"images and thinking in terms of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1447.708,"endTime":1452.354,"body":"a book spread to, you know, two"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1447.708,"endTime":1452.354,"body":"pages, even if it's a single"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1452.432,"endTime":1456.692,"body":"image. You know, thinking of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1452.432,"endTime":1456.692,"body":"thinking of like different"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1456.769,"endTime":1461.571,"body":"units, like the spread is the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1456.769,"endTime":1461.571,"body":"way you see a book as opposed to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1461.648,"endTime":1466.14,"body":"the page. So I mean, really,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1461.648,"endTime":1466.14,"body":"kind of, not, not to say this"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1466.218,"endTime":1470.942,"body":"negatively, but some kind of,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1466.218,"endTime":1470.942,"body":"you know, really remedial stuff"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1471.019,"endTime":1475.356,"body":"in a way that is just a"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1471.019,"endTime":1475.356,"body":"grounding in a process of seeing"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1474.48,"endTime":1494.61,"body":"`murdered out there?"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1475.434,"endTime":1479.926,"body":"books as their own kind of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1475.434,"endTime":1479.926,"body":"genre, you know, in a way, kind"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1480.003,"endTime":1484.263,"body":"of like as their own technology"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1480.003,"endTime":1484.263,"body":"and just looking at the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1484.34,"endTime":1489.065,"body":"different factors that you can"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1484.34,"endTime":1489.065,"body":"kind of know, and sliders that"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1489.142,"endTime":1492.86,"body":"create different effects within"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1489.142,"endTime":1492.86,"body":"that technology."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1494.7,"endTime":1501.87,"body":"No, I'm sorry it's just"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1494.7,"endTime":1501.87,"body":"Wednesday in Brooklyn."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1501.72,"endTime":1503.4,"body":"What is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1501.72,"endTime":1503.4,"body":"happening? (laughs) Do you need"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1503.4,"endTime":1504.3,"body":"to take cover?"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1506.04,"endTime":1511.08,"body":"No, I barely hear it."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1506.04,"endTime":1511.08,"body":"But is probably like mega"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1511.08,"endTime":1512.4,"body":"amplified on your system."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1512.4,"endTime":1516.03,"body":"No, I lived in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1512.4,"endTime":1516.03,"body":"Boston after college and my last"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1516.03,"endTime":1521.31,"body":"apartment was right on Mass Ave."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1516.03,"endTime":1521.31,"body":"And the first couple of weeks"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1521.31,"endTime":1524.28,"body":"like my roommates, and I could"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1521.31,"endTime":1524.28,"body":"not sleep, I mean, it just the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1524.28,"endTime":1527.19,"body":"stuff that would happen in the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1524.28,"endTime":1527.19,"body":"middle of the night. And by the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1527.19,"endTime":1531.75,"body":"end, like, there were like cars"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1527.19,"endTime":1531.75,"body":"on fire outside and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1531.75,"endTime":1534.72,"body":"explosions and like, slept"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1531.75,"endTime":1534.72,"body":"through the whole thing. So I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1534.72,"endTime":1535.56,"body":"can appreciate that."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1535.72,"endTime":1541.9,"body":"Yeah, no, it's"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1535.72,"endTime":1541.9,"body":"adaptation. I, one of my one of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1541.9,"endTime":1545.56,"body":"my least lovely apartments in"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1541.9,"endTime":1545.56,"body":"college was in the flight path"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1545.56,"endTime":1552.34,"body":"of LAX. You know, it's crazy how"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1545.56,"endTime":1552.34,"body":"fast you can just start thinking"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1552.34,"endTime":1554.35,"body":"of that as normal, it would be"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1552.34,"endTime":1554.35,"body":"on the phone with someone and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1554.35,"endTime":1555.88,"body":"they were like, What the hell"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1554.35,"endTime":1555.88,"body":"was that?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1556.57,"endTime":1557.77,"body":"You're like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1556.57,"endTime":1557.77,"body":"what are you talking about?"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1557.8,"endTime":1558.28,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1561.07,"endTime":1566.74,"body":"So apologies. So"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1561.07,"endTime":1566.74,"body":"what have you seen for the worse"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1566.8,"endTime":1573.97,"body":"in terms of the publishing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1566.8,"endTime":1573.97,"body":"industry? Like changes that have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1573.97,"endTime":1577.15,"body":"made it more challenging, either"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1573.97,"endTime":1577.15,"body":"from a publisher's perspective"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1577.15,"endTime":1579.4,"body":"or from the artists perspective?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1577.15,"endTime":1579.4,"body":"Or both?"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1581.22,"endTime":1587.79,"body":"Oh, it's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1581.22,"endTime":1587.79,"body":"it's a good question that there"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1587.79,"endTime":1595.71,"body":"was the transition of overall"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1587.79,"endTime":1595.71,"body":"fewer photography books being"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1595.71,"endTime":1600.36,"body":"published with trade publishers"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1595.71,"endTime":1600.36,"body":"who had numerous categories, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1600.36,"endTime":1605.49,"body":"know, so and even not to, like,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1600.36,"endTime":1605.49,"body":"live back in the 90s, or"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1605.49,"endTime":1610.14,"body":"something, but the landscape was"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1605.49,"endTime":1610.14,"body":"that, you know, Abrams, and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1610.14,"endTime":1614.88,"body":"Chronicle and Little, Brown and,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1610.14,"endTime":1614.88,"body":"you know, there were a number of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1615.09,"endTime":1619.44,"body":"publishers who were killed off"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1615.09,"endTime":1619.44,"body":"even, you know, who had"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1620.58,"endTime":1627.09,"body":"interesting sort of active"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1620.58,"endTime":1627.09,"body":"photography lists. And I think"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1627.09,"endTime":1632.49,"body":"over time, they just were not"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1627.09,"endTime":1632.49,"body":"emphasized, I understand it, all"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1632.49,"endTime":1635.04,"body":"the pressure is that you and I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1632.49,"endTime":1635.04,"body":"just, you know, kind of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1635.04,"endTime":1641.31,"body":"recounted meant that those lists"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1635.04,"endTime":1641.31,"body":"just shrunk and you know, the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1641.31,"endTime":1645.81,"body":"rest of the lists got as"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1641.31,"endTime":1645.81,"body":"commercial as possible. For"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1645.81,"endTime":1647.94,"body":"better or worse, again, I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1645.81,"endTime":1647.94,"body":"totally understand the market"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1647.94,"endTime":1654.09,"body":"terms, I'm not trying to be a"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1647.94,"endTime":1654.09,"body":"snob about that. But, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1654.09,"endTime":1658.2,"body":"it's a really good thing that"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1654.09,"endTime":1658.2,"body":"the rise of, you know, self"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1658.2,"endTime":1662.82,"body":"publishing, and, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1658.2,"endTime":1662.82,"body":"platforms did arise when they"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1662.82,"endTime":1666.6,"body":"did, because there were, there"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1662.82,"endTime":1666.6,"body":"was a real kind of vacuum going"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1666.6,"endTime":1666.9,"body":"on,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1666.93,"endTime":1669.66,"body":"Right. Well, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1666.93,"endTime":1669.66,"body":"also like, small, independent"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1669.66,"endTime":1674.97,"body":"presses. But then they have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1669.66,"endTime":1674.97,"body":"another flip side of where, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1674.97,"endTime":1678.72,"body":"know, if you have a large"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1674.97,"endTime":1678.72,"body":"publisher, like Chronicle where"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1679.23,"endTime":1683.91,"body":"they can make up maybe a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1679.23,"endTime":1683.91,"body":"financial deficit in the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1683.91,"endTime":1688.65,"body":"photography department, in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1683.91,"endTime":1688.65,"body":"another area, a small"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1688.65,"endTime":1692.58,"body":"independent photo book"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1688.65,"endTime":1692.58,"body":"publisher, this is it. And a lot"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1692.58,"endTime":1696.54,"body":"of the photographers are bearing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1692.58,"endTime":1696.54,"body":"the weight of, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1696.54,"endTime":1697.65,"body":"financial risk."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1697.65,"endTime":1698.04,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1698.96,"endTime":1701.51,"body":"Yeah, I mean, in that, and that"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1698.96,"endTime":1701.51,"body":"was a kind of, you know, once"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1701.51,"endTime":1705.83,"body":"upon a time, I think, all"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1701.51,"endTime":1705.83,"body":"authors, including"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1705.83,"endTime":1710.03,"body":"photographers, expected"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1705.83,"endTime":1710.03,"body":"advances, for example, and you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1710.03,"endTime":1710.18,"body":"know..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1710.51,"endTime":1711.47,"body":"Ahh, thats"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1710.51,"endTime":1711.47,"body":"adorable. (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1711.54,"endTime":1715.83,"body":"I know, right? And"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1711.54,"endTime":1715.83,"body":"that's really flipped over over"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1715.83,"endTime":1722.67,"body":"the decades. And so, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1715.83,"endTime":1722.67,"body":"you've got this kind of self"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1722.67,"endTime":1726.6,"body":"subsidizing it's not, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1722.67,"endTime":1726.6,"body":"there's a, there's a model built"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1726.6,"endTime":1731.07,"body":"in there where, yes, it makes"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1726.6,"endTime":1731.07,"body":"sense to offset production costs"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1731.1,"endTime":1737.61,"body":"and all that and you know, it,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1731.1,"endTime":1737.61,"body":"but it, it is hard on, on"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1737.61,"endTime":1739.56,"body":"photographers to be able to bear"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1737.61,"endTime":1739.56,"body":"that burden."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1740.73,"endTime":1741.42,"body":"For sure."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1741.287,"endTime":1743.387,"body":"Or, or make it that"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1741.287,"endTime":1743.387,"body":"they're established enough that"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1743.387,"endTime":1747.827,"body":"they have gallery representation"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1743.387,"endTime":1747.827,"body":"or partnerships where, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1747.63,"endTime":1763.89,"body":"Yeah, it's so great. It's such a"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1747.63,"endTime":1763.89,"body":"fun book."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1747.827,"endTime":1753.077,"body":"some of those books or a"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1747.827,"endTime":1753.077,"body":"significant portion of those"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1753.107,"endTime":1757.727,"body":"print runs is actually accounted"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1753.107,"endTime":1757.727,"body":"for through purchase or buyback."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1759.317,"endTime":1766.877,"body":"So it is, you know, it's forced"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1759.317,"endTime":1766.877,"body":"photographers to get more savvy"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1763.0,"endTime":1782.59,"body":"Thank you. Yeah, that's just to,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1763.0,"endTime":1782.59,"body":"for the, for the value of, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1766.937,"endTime":1771.977,"body":"on that stuff necessarily. But"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1766.937,"endTime":1771.977,"body":"you know, they, but they have to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1772.547,"endTime":1776.897,"body":"bear a lot of the you know, they"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1772.547,"endTime":1776.897,"body":"need more skills in order to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1776.897,"endTime":1780.227,"body":"bear all that really. And"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1776.897,"endTime":1780.227,"body":"funding is always a question"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1780.227,"endTime":1783.647,"body":"it's always tricky when you'r"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1780.227,"endTime":1783.647,"body":"talking about money and, yo"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1783.64,"endTime":1813.52,"body":"know, for the audience's sake,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1783.64,"endTime":1813.52,"body":"it's Cherry Hill  A Chil"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1783.647,"endTime":1787.457,"body":"know, the, the, some of th"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1783.647,"endTime":1787.457,"body":"artists that I've worked wit"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1787.457,"endTime":1790.097,"body":"consistently or you know, a"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1787.457,"endTime":1790.097,"body":"least several times over th"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1790.097,"endTime":1795.017,"body":"years, like, including, yo"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1790.097,"endTime":1795.017,"body":"know, Jona Frank, who's real"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1795.017,"endTime":1801.437,"body":"y interesting hybrid, sort of, y"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1795.017,"endTime":1801.437,"body":"u know, photographic memoir, we"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1801.437,"endTime":1803.477,"body":"published last late last year."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1813.52,"endTime":1819.22,"body":"hood Reimagined. And, you know"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1813.52,"endTime":1819.22,"body":"to, to be able to pull off a bo"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1819.22,"endTime":1823.18,"body":"k that has a lot of inte"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1819.22,"endTime":1823.18,"body":"sive production and a high page"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1823.18,"endTime":1829.12,"body":"count too, which is not righ"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1823.18,"endTime":1829.12,"body":". You know, some of that it's"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1829.15,"endTime":1833.56,"body":"some of these projects just don'"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1829.15,"endTime":1833.56,"body":", they don't belong, in a sens"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1833.56,"endTime":1837.16,"body":". Because the fact you know"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1833.56,"endTime":1837.16,"body":"the production factors kind"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1837.16,"endTime":1841.51,"body":"of outweigh what an indi"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1837.16,"endTime":1841.51,"body":"idual can do in a sort of self"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1841.51,"endTime":1847.12,"body":"publishing context, right? So w"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1841.51,"endTime":1847.12,"body":", you know, there's still this"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1847.15,"endTime":1851.2,"body":"I think, valuable role for,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1847.15,"endTime":1851.2,"body":"for publishers, you're more"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1847.69,"endTime":1893.05,"body":"I know, its..."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1851.2,"endTime":1853.87,"body":"you know, art and design arch"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1851.2,"endTime":1853.87,"body":"tectural oriented pub"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1853.87,"endTime":1859.09,"body":"ishers, like, like Mon"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1853.87,"endTime":1859.09,"body":"celli. But anyway, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1859.09,"endTime":1862.93,"body":"larger arc that I think I was"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1859.09,"endTime":1862.93,"body":"just describing as a kind of,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1862.93,"endTime":1867.85,"body":"you know, retrenching of the mul"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1862.93,"endTime":1867.85,"body":"i category, trade pub"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1867.85,"endTime":1873.64,"body":"ishers. And, you know, pus"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1867.85,"endTime":1873.64,"body":"ing, pushing art and pho"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1873.64,"endTime":1876.73,"body":"ography books into more spe"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1873.64,"endTime":1876.73,"body":"ialized art and photography pub"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1877.3,"endTime":1882.88,"body":"ishers, right, or self pub"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1877.3,"endTime":1882.88,"body":"ishing. And so that's the big"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1882.88,"endTime":1888.58,"body":"kind of, like, you know, lan"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1882.88,"endTime":1888.58,"body":"scape shift. And maybe, you kno"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1888.58,"endTime":1891.34,"body":", there's always the rise of I m"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1888.58,"endTime":1891.34,"body":"an, again, I've been, I've bee"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1891.34,"endTime":1894.19,"body":"doing publishing so long, it'"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1891.34,"endTime":1894.19,"body":"like, do you remember when the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1894.82,"endTime":1899.23,"body":"big retail panic was the, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1894.82,"endTime":1899.23,"body":"know, the rise of the big box"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1899.23,"endTime":1907.81,"body":"stores and the demise of t"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1899.23,"endTime":1907.81,"body":"e indies, right? And then now, l"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1907.81,"endTime":1910.93,"body":"ke, big box stores are not even,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1907.81,"endTime":1910.93,"body":"you know, compared to compare"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1910.96,"endTime":1917.44,"body":"to Amazon, which really acco"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1910.96,"endTime":1917.44,"body":"nts for almost a half of the b"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1917.44,"endTime":1921.31,"body":"oks that any given title tha"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1917.44,"endTime":1921.31,"body":"we will sell, the biggest c"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1921.31,"endTime":1922.96,"body":"stomer is Amazon right?"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1925.21,"endTime":1926.77,"body":"So you notice that."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1927.25,"endTime":1932.29,"body":"Yes, I do, and I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1927.25,"endTime":1932.29,"body":"know, the $4 per book I get from"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1932.29,"endTime":1932.65,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1935.02,"endTime":1938.98,"body":"Yeah, exactly. You"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1935.02,"endTime":1938.98,"body":"know, and being the mega mega,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1938.98,"endTime":1944.56,"body":"you know, they set the absolute"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1938.98,"endTime":1944.56,"body":"terms that everyone from the big"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1944.71,"endTime":1949.81,"body":"publishers to the small one has"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1944.71,"endTime":1949.81,"body":"to just go along with. So it is"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1949.81,"endTime":1953.98,"body":"just a monopolized market now."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1949.81,"endTime":1953.98,"body":"And it's still great that you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1953.98,"endTime":1957.1,"body":"can get photography books,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1953.98,"endTime":1957.1,"body":"somehow, right?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1957.78,"endTime":1960.39,"body":"Yeah, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1957.78,"endTime":1960.39,"body":"somehow, I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1960.39,"endTime":1963.66,"body":"interesting, because so these"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1960.39,"endTime":1963.66,"body":"bigger publishers kind of lost"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1963.66,"endTime":1967.5,"body":"their photo section, but all"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1963.66,"endTime":1967.5,"body":"these small independent ones"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1967.71,"endTime":1971.94,"body":"have come up. And they're more"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1967.71,"endTime":1971.94,"body":"likely to publish lesser known"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1971.94,"endTime":1976.68,"body":"artists, because they don't, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1971.94,"endTime":1976.68,"body":"know, I do sometimes print runs"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1976.68,"endTime":1984.87,"body":"of 300. You know, so there's a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1976.68,"endTime":1984.87,"body":"lot less risk involved. And so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1984.87,"endTime":1990.0,"body":"in a way, I mean, this shift"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1984.87,"endTime":1990.0,"body":"has, it makes no sense"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1990.0,"endTime":1992.52,"body":"financially, and it kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1990.0,"endTime":1992.52,"body":"never has, and yet there more"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1992.55,"endTime":1996.21,"body":"photo books being published than"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1992.55,"endTime":1996.21,"body":"ever because there's just a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1996.21,"endTime":1998.16,"body":"bunch of psychos like me."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1996.21,"endTime":1998.16,"body":"(laughs)"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":1998.16,"endTime":1998.58,"body":"Exactly. (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1999.72,"endTime":2003.17,"body":"Let's do it."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1999.72,"endTime":2003.17,"body":"We'll figure it out later."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2003.489,"endTime":2006.489,"body":"Yeah. And that's, I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2003.489,"endTime":2006.489,"body":"mean, but that's so valuable, as"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2006.489,"endTime":2009.759,"body":"you know, I mean, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2006.489,"endTime":2009.759,"body":"obviously, like, you yourself"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2009.759,"endTime":2013.059,"body":"would understand that what"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2009.759,"endTime":2013.059,"body":"you're doing has that kind of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2013.059,"endTime":2017.079,"body":"justification, but it is really"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2013.059,"endTime":2017.079,"body":"valuable, that there's just"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2017.109,"endTime":2022.149,"body":"small, active hotspots of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2017.109,"endTime":2022.149,"body":"publishing because it makes a"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2022.149,"endTime":2022.689,"body":"difference."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2023.14,"endTime":2025.78,"body":"Yeah. What kind"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2023.14,"endTime":2025.78,"body":"of photography books would you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2025.78,"endTime":2028.03,"body":"like to see more of out in the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2025.78,"endTime":2028.03,"body":"world."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2029.62,"endTime":2037.24,"body":"Um, you know, on the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2029.62,"endTime":2037.24,"body":"personal level, I have weirder"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2037.24,"endTime":2041.8,"body":"tastes than what I am, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2037.24,"endTime":2041.8,"body":"necessarily overseeing in the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2041.8,"endTime":2046.48,"body":"kind of editorial publishing"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2041.8,"endTime":2046.48,"body":"role, like, I, I like pictures"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2046.48,"endTime":2052.09,"body":"of, you know, static objects,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2046.48,"endTime":2052.09,"body":"and there's something about that"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2052.09,"endTime":2057.28,"body":"kind of contemplation of our, of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2052.09,"endTime":2057.28,"body":"the world around us that somehow"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2057.91,"endTime":2061.18,"body":"just is more mysterious and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2057.91,"endTime":2061.18,"body":"interesting to me than kind of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2061.18,"endTime":2069.28,"body":"like conventional portraiture,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2061.18,"endTime":2069.28,"body":"if that makes sense. So like,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2069.31,"endTime":2074.2,"body":"like your book on If You Go, All"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2069.31,"endTime":2074.2,"body":"the Plants Will Die, I love it."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2076.84,"endTime":2082.75,"body":"So good, right. So that's a you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2076.84,"endTime":2082.75,"body":"know, but what I want to see"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2082.75,"endTime":2086.5,"body":"more out there, I mean, I've"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2082.75,"endTime":2086.5,"body":"been thinking about this in the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2086.5,"endTime":2091.06,"body":"context of just obviously,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2086.5,"endTime":2091.06,"body":"because it's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2091.12,"endTime":2094.66,"body":"sometimes in the back of my"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2091.12,"endTime":2094.66,"body":"mind, and now just more and more"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2094.66,"endTime":2098.08,"body":"on the front of your mind, like"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2094.66,"endTime":2098.08,"body":"just all the emergencies that"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2098.08,"endTime":2105.04,"body":"we're dealing with. And looking"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2098.08,"endTime":2105.04,"body":"at some artists who are dealing"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2105.19,"endTime":2107.53,"body":"with I mean, it's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2105.19,"endTime":2107.53,"body":"it's it's not like,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2110.17,"endTime":2114.61,"body":"aesthetically satisfying to, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2110.17,"endTime":2114.61,"body":"know, in a sense, like, look at"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2114.64,"endTime":2118.0,"body":"art that is dealing with these"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2114.64,"endTime":2118.0,"body":"sort of climate, political and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2118.03,"endTime":2123.19,"body":"social emergencies. But we're,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2118.03,"endTime":2123.19,"body":"you know, you got to look at it."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2123.28,"endTime":2127.99,"body":"And so you know, I've been"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2123.28,"endTime":2127.99,"body":"thinking about some of the some"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2127.99,"endTime":2132.28,"body":"of the, some of the artists who"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2127.99,"endTime":2132.28,"body":"in their own ways are making"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2132.28,"endTime":2136.18,"body":"really interesting sometimes"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2132.28,"endTime":2136.18,"body":"very conceptual, that you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2136.18,"endTime":2142.42,"body":"important work about, about"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2136.18,"endTime":2142.42,"body":"climate change. And wondering,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2142.42,"endTime":2145.12,"body":"in some senses, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2142.42,"endTime":2145.12,"body":"sometimes these are hard to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2145.12,"endTime":2149.5,"body":"adapt to book form and so I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2145.12,"endTime":2149.5,"body":"don't totally know how to do it"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2149.53,"endTime":2155.65,"body":"or, or anything, but you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2149.53,"endTime":2155.65,"body":"there's a Bozeman, Montana"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2155.65,"endTime":2157.54,"body":"photographer, Ian van Coller"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2155.65,"endTime":2157.54,"body":"who..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2157.96,"endTime":2158.5,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2158.54,"endTime":2163.25,"body":"Yeah, who I mean,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2158.54,"endTime":2163.25,"body":"just beyond really amazing field"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2163.25,"endTime":2166.64,"body":"work, and, you know, working on"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2163.25,"endTime":2166.64,"body":"kind of like the dissipating"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2166.64,"endTime":2169.55,"body":"glaciers around the world, but"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2166.64,"endTime":2169.55,"body":"there's this really interesting"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2169.55,"endTime":2176.15,"body":"kind of multimedia project where"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2169.55,"endTime":2176.15,"body":"he teams with scientists, and,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2176.87,"endTime":2180.98,"body":"you know, writes over and sort"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2176.87,"endTime":2180.98,"body":"of data analyzes over his"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2180.98,"endTime":2185.24,"body":"photographs. And it's called, I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2180.98,"endTime":2185.24,"body":"think it's the Naturalist of the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2185.27,"endTime":2191.0,"body":"Long Now and it's a, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2185.27,"endTime":2191.0,"body":"that's a, that's a project that"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2191.0,"endTime":2194.6,"body":"is just so interesting to me,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2191.0,"endTime":2194.6,"body":"and so multi dimensional, and I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2194.6,"endTime":2199.01,"body":"think, you know, can help people"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2194.6,"endTime":2199.01,"body":"think a little less literally"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2199.01,"endTime":2202.82,"body":"about just, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2199.01,"endTime":2202.82,"body":"climate panic, that we're that"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2202.82,"endTime":2207.8,"body":"we're all feeling actually needs"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2202.82,"endTime":2207.8,"body":"a pretty sophisticated kind of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2207.83,"endTime":2213.02,"body":"aesthetic evolution. Right. And"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2207.83,"endTime":2213.02,"body":"so, then thinking a bit in, in"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2213.02,"endTime":2219.53,"body":"those terms. And, and just yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2213.02,"endTime":2219.53,"body":"I mean, you know, working with"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2219.53,"endTime":2227.42,"body":"artists who have are analyzing"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2219.53,"endTime":2227.42,"body":"the, you know, interesting"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2227.48,"endTime":2230.18,"body":"avenues of representation,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2227.48,"endTime":2230.18,"body":"representation of self and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2230.18,"endTime":2238.04,"body":"social, and, and their social"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2230.18,"endTime":2238.04,"body":"positions. So, you know, trying"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2238.04,"endTime":2242.72,"body":"to pay attention to that, and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2238.04,"endTime":2242.72,"body":"these are such, evolved, like,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2243.05,"endTime":2247.22,"body":"quickly evolving fields that"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2243.05,"endTime":2247.22,"body":"realizing I have a lot of kind"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2247.22,"endTime":2253.01,"body":"of, like catching up to do so"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2247.22,"endTime":2253.01,"body":"that that's part of it. Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2253.01,"endTime":2255.5,"body":"mean, in your position, you kind"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2253.01,"endTime":2255.5,"body":"of, you know, I have a similar"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2255.5,"endTime":2257.6,"body":"question for you, when it comes"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2255.5,"endTime":2257.6,"body":"to  it, I mean, you make your"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2257.6,"endTime":2260.0,"body":"own publishing decisions too."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2260.06,"endTime":2263.9,"body":"I do. Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2260.06,"endTime":2263.9,"body":"not such a harsh committee, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2263.9,"endTime":2264.86,"body":"have to go up against."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2264.89,"endTime":2268.25,"body":"Yeah. But, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2264.89,"endTime":2268.25,"body":"how do you how do you factor in"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2268.25,"endTime":2272.69,"body":"these, like, massive changes"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2268.25,"endTime":2272.69,"body":"that are that are all around us?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2273.92,"endTime":2277.94,"body":"In terms of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2273.92,"endTime":2277.94,"body":"which books I am choosing to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2278.09,"endTime":2281.36,"body":"publish? Or how do I feel about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2278.09,"endTime":2281.36,"body":"the whole industry?"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2282.07,"endTime":2287.2,"body":"I mean, just, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2282.07,"endTime":2287.2,"body":"know, in the sense of how, what,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2287.2,"endTime":2291.67,"body":"what is the publishers role or"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2287.2,"endTime":2291.67,"body":"responsibilities sometimes, and,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2291.88,"endTime":2297.79,"body":"you know, it's hard to paint"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2291.88,"endTime":2297.79,"body":"with such a broad brush, and I'd"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2297.79,"endTime":2301.84,"body":"like, you know, saying something"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2297.79,"endTime":2301.84,"body":"is kind of sweeping, but also"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2301.84,"endTime":2304.45,"body":"vague as, like social equity."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2301.84,"endTime":2304.45,"body":"But, you know, when it comes to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2305.35,"endTime":2309.85,"body":"what we can do as sort of, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2305.35,"endTime":2309.85,"body":"know, allies or partners in"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2309.88,"endTime":2314.89,"body":"artists, you know, how do we how"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2309.88,"endTime":2314.89,"body":"do you see a role sometimes when"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2314.89,"endTime":2315.64,"body":"it comes to that?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2315.78,"endTime":2320.04,"body":"Yeah, that's a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2315.78,"endTime":2320.04,"body":"great question. I feel like I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2320.04,"endTime":2324.15,"body":"started in publishing, because I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2320.04,"endTime":2324.15,"body":"was working with so many"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2324.15,"endTime":2329.22,"body":"photographers, when I owned my"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2324.15,"endTime":2329.22,"body":"gallery, and then like, through"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2329.22,"endTime":2333.33,"body":"the nonprofit, and workshops and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2329.22,"endTime":2333.33,"body":"things like that, that had"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2333.33,"endTime":2339.66,"body":"really wonderful projects, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2333.33,"endTime":2339.66,"body":"were paying an exorbitant amount"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2339.66,"endTime":2345.63,"body":"of money to certain publishers"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2339.66,"endTime":2345.63,"body":"to get them published in a way"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2345.63,"endTime":2351.36,"body":"that I felt was taking advantage"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2345.63,"endTime":2351.36,"body":"of the artists and and that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2351.36,"endTime":2354.78,"body":"sucks. So, you know, in a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2351.36,"endTime":2354.78,"body":"similar way, with the gallery, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2354.78,"endTime":2359.73,"body":"was trying to figure out ways to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2354.78,"endTime":2359.73,"body":"help artists just kind of level"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2359.73,"endTime":2363.3,"body":"the playing field so that you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2359.73,"endTime":2363.3,"body":"know, the good work rises to the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2363.3,"endTime":2368.46,"body":"top, not just the people that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2363.3,"endTime":2368.46,"body":"have $50,000 to pay a publisher"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2368.46,"endTime":2374.79,"body":"to publish the work. But again,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2368.46,"endTime":2374.79,"body":"the challenges, the financial"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2374.79,"endTime":2382.95,"body":"suck, you know, so like, how can"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2374.79,"endTime":2382.95,"body":"you elevate great work and try"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2382.95,"endTime":2388.32,"body":"to put that financial piece to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2382.95,"endTime":2388.32,"body":"the side. It's just a constant."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2388.47,"endTime":2392.49,"body":"It's a constant struggle. And I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2388.47,"endTime":2392.49,"body":"think, you know, fortunately"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2392.49,"endTime":2399.12,"body":"with crowdfunding has been a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2392.49,"endTime":2399.12,"body":"great avenue for people and and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2399.12,"endTime":2402.24,"body":"doesn't have any in my opinion,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2399.12,"endTime":2402.24,"body":"this stigma that it maybe did in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2402.24,"endTime":2406.68,"body":"the beginning, it's kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2402.24,"endTime":2406.68,"body":"like, it's a way to pre order"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2406.68,"endTime":2409.53,"body":"the book and help make it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2406.68,"endTime":2409.53,"body":"happen. And it also kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2409.53,"endTime":2412.29,"body":"validates that there is an"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2409.53,"endTime":2412.29,"body":"audience for it, that there's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2412.29,"endTime":2415.86,"body":"enough people that are"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2412.29,"endTime":2415.86,"body":"interested in buying it to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2415.86,"endTime":2422.34,"body":"warrant the production of it."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2415.86,"endTime":2422.34,"body":"And I think so just being"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2422.34,"endTime":2428.94,"body":"creative and, and for me, I've"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2422.34,"endTime":2428.94,"body":"had a challenge all along in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2428.94,"endTime":2433.08,"body":"how, like what metric I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2428.94,"endTime":2433.08,"body":"use to decide what books to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2433.08,"endTime":2439.98,"body":"make. And I kind of had this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2433.08,"endTime":2439.98,"body":"epiphany recently, because"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2439.98,"endTime":2442.59,"body":"normally, I'm like, there are a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2439.98,"endTime":2442.59,"body":"couple of things that I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2442.62,"endTime":2448.35,"body":"looking at. One is, do I really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2442.62,"endTime":2448.35,"body":"love this artist, like as a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2448.35,"endTime":2451.38,"body":"person, because you're going to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2448.35,"endTime":2451.38,"body":"be partnering with them for well"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2451.38,"endTime":2455.25,"body":"over a year, they're going to be"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2451.38,"endTime":2455.25,"body":"a very active person in your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2455.25,"endTime":2458.16,"body":"life and texting you at 10"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2455.25,"endTime":2458.16,"body":"o'clock on a Saturday night, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2458.55,"endTime":2463.53,"body":"you have to enjoy this human. So"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2458.55,"endTime":2463.53,"body":"I always say like, I have a no"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2463.53,"endTime":2469.53,"body":"asshole rule, which, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2463.53,"endTime":2469.53,"body":"like, at least that's the short."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2470.22,"endTime":2474.93,"body":"Exactly. And then it's, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2470.22,"endTime":2474.93,"body":"know, is it work that I think is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2476.1,"endTime":2482.01,"body":"unique or important, and I have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2476.1,"endTime":2482.01,"body":"the my catalog is, it's pretty"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2482.1,"endTime":2486.48,"body":"big tent, you know, there's a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2482.1,"endTime":2486.48,"body":"wide range. And it was similar"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2486.78,"endTime":2490.23,"body":"in my gallery at a really I like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2486.78,"endTime":2490.23,"body":"a lot of different types of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2490.23,"endTime":2494.76,"body":"work. So, you know, my art"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2490.23,"endTime":2494.76,"body":"collection is as diverse as my"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2495.66,"endTime":2498.63,"body":"gallery catalog, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2495.66,"endTime":2498.63,"body":"roster was in my publishing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2498.63,"endTime":2503.07,"body":"catalog. So, to me, there's a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2498.63,"endTime":2503.07,"body":"lot of factors that go into that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2503.07,"endTime":2505.8,"body":"piece, you know, do I think the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2503.07,"endTime":2505.8,"body":"work is interesting, do I think"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2505.8,"endTime":2510.24,"body":"it's something that I haven't"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2505.8,"endTime":2510.24,"body":"necessarily seen before, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2510.24,"endTime":2513.66,"body":"haven't seen it done in a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2510.24,"endTime":2513.66,"body":"certain way, or I have an idea"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2513.66,"endTime":2517.26,"body":"for a way we can present it in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2513.66,"endTime":2517.26,"body":"book form that would be really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2517.26,"endTime":2520.74,"body":"unique and kind of elevated as"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2517.26,"endTime":2520.74,"body":"an object. And then the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2520.74,"endTime":2525.48,"body":"financials have to make some"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2520.74,"endTime":2525.48,"body":"sort of sense. So, you know, can"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2525.48,"endTime":2530.31,"body":"we do crowdfunding his does this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2525.48,"endTime":2530.31,"body":"person have collectors that are,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2530.34,"endTime":2534.3,"body":"you know, can we can do a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2530.34,"endTime":2534.3,"body":"portfolio sale situation is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2534.3,"endTime":2538.77,"body":"there, do they have grant"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2534.3,"endTime":2538.77,"body":"funding, because again, at the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2538.77,"endTime":2544.23,"body":"end of the day, I'm just, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2538.77,"endTime":2544.23,"body":"know, it's my really expensive,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2544.26,"endTime":2546.18,"body":"full time, hobby."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2547.65,"endTime":2550.71,"body":"You know, I have a full time job"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2547.65,"endTime":2550.71,"body":"that allows me to have a full"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2550.71,"endTime":2554.55,"body":"time, other job that doesn't,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2550.71,"endTime":2554.55,"body":"you know, pay any money and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2554.55,"endTime":2558.48,"body":"hopefully doesn't lose too much."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2554.55,"endTime":2558.48,"body":"And so, what I ultimately"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2558.48,"endTime":2563.34,"body":"realized recently, too, is that,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2558.48,"endTime":2563.34,"body":"for me, personally, I need to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2563.34,"endTime":2566.91,"body":"get something personally out of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2563.34,"endTime":2566.91,"body":"it, you know, I'm putting a ton"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2566.91,"endTime":2570.06,"body":"of my time and energy and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2566.91,"endTime":2570.06,"body":"basically, you know, all of my"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2570.06,"endTime":2576.0,"body":"free time, and if I was, if I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2570.06,"endTime":2576.0,"body":"loved playing golf, I wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2576.27,"endTime":2579.0,"body":"play anymore. If it wasn't, if I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2576.27,"endTime":2579.0,"body":"wasn't getting something out of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2579.0,"endTime":2581.73,"body":"it, right? You know, it's not"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2579.0,"endTime":2581.73,"body":"just about like, Oh, I want to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2581.73,"endTime":2585.39,"body":"make sure that this golf course"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2581.73,"endTime":2585.39,"body":"stays in business. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2585.39,"endTime":2589.62,"body":"that my caddy is that the person"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2585.39,"endTime":2589.62,"body":"that holds the clubs, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2589.86,"endTime":2595.68,"body":"so yeah, like, has a job, um,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2589.86,"endTime":2595.68,"body":"you know, like, I need to enjoy"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2595.68,"endTime":2600.06,"body":"it, too. So I realized that for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2595.68,"endTime":2600.06,"body":"me, personally, the books that I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2600.06,"endTime":2602.58,"body":"get the most out of are ones"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2600.06,"endTime":2602.58,"body":"that I really feel like I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2602.58,"endTime":2607.47,"body":"learned something from whether"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2602.58,"endTime":2607.47,"body":"it's, you know, a really like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2607.47,"endTime":2612.3,"body":"conceptually deep project that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2607.47,"endTime":2612.3,"body":"is pulling me in and giving me a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2612.3,"endTime":2616.44,"body":"perspective on something that I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2612.3,"endTime":2616.44,"body":"didn't think about before, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2616.44,"endTime":2618.96,"body":"that I can, by publishing it,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2616.44,"endTime":2618.96,"body":"I'm really getting involved in a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2618.96,"endTime":2623.43,"body":"much deeper way, if I have an"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2618.96,"endTime":2623.43,"body":"opportunity to work on the edit"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2623.43,"endTime":2627.09,"body":"and sequence and design,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2623.43,"endTime":2627.09,"body":"especially if it's a little bit"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2627.09,"endTime":2631.08,"body":"unique. You know, that's another"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2627.09,"endTime":2631.08,"body":"way, if I have an opportunity"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2631.08,"endTime":2635.34,"body":"to, you know, sometimes I co"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2631.08,"endTime":2635.34,"body":"publish with other publishers or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2635.34,"endTime":2639.48,"body":"I use designers that are outside"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2635.34,"endTime":2639.48,"body":"of my normal, you know, network,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2639.51,"endTime":2644.01,"body":"and so I get pulled in, in those"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2639.51,"endTime":2644.01,"body":"conversations. And I learned a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2644.01,"endTime":2648.51,"body":"lot through that. So, to me, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2644.01,"endTime":2648.51,"body":"recently was like, that really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2648.51,"endTime":2652.32,"body":"needs to be a huge component,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2648.51,"endTime":2652.32,"body":"you know?"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2653.26,"endTime":2657.49,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2653.26,"endTime":2657.49,"body":"that. And what you're saying"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2657.49,"endTime":2663.28,"body":"about just the value of these"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2657.49,"endTime":2663.28,"body":"relationships is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2663.28,"endTime":2668.68,"body":"some, some of these artists are"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2663.28,"endTime":2668.68,"body":"really, really close friends,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2668.95,"endTime":2675.4,"body":"too. Absolutely. Yeah. I think"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2668.95,"endTime":2675.4,"body":"it's you know, it's great to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2675.4,"endTime":2680.08,"body":"work with friends whose work you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2675.4,"endTime":2680.08,"body":"love. It can, you know, there"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2680.08,"endTime":2683.74,"body":"are certainly pitfalls like you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2680.08,"endTime":2683.74,"body":"know, it sucks to talk money"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2683.92,"endTime":2689.47,"body":"with friends as well. But I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2683.92,"endTime":2689.47,"body":"think over you know, just over"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2689.47,"endTime":2692.89,"body":"time, this sort of mutual"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2689.47,"endTime":2692.89,"body":"understanding that we have"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2692.89,"endTime":2698.47,"body":"makes, ultimately just makes the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2692.89,"endTime":2698.47,"body":"book as good as it can be. And"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2700.39,"endTime":2703.06,"body":"no one wants to have the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2700.39,"endTime":2703.06,"body":"opportunity to make a book that"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2703.06,"endTime":2706.33,"body":"is sort of just, you know, what"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2703.06,"endTime":2706.33,"body":"we would think of as a kind of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2706.36,"endTime":2711.04,"body":"like, a traditional exhibition"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2706.36,"endTime":2711.04,"body":"catalog or something. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2711.04,"endTime":2711.22,"body":"there's..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2711.25,"endTime":2712.39,"body":"Absolutely,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2711.25,"endTime":2712.39,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2712.42,"endTime":2715.54,"body":"There's so many more"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2712.42,"endTime":2715.54,"body":"ideas that the artist can bring"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2715.54,"endTime":2720.37,"body":"into every facet of the book"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2715.54,"endTime":2720.37,"body":"from the text contributors, if"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2720.37,"endTime":2725.17,"body":"that if that is a thing in in"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2720.37,"endTime":2725.17,"body":"one of these books, the design"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2725.17,"endTime":2729.16,"body":"and the production that, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2725.17,"endTime":2729.16,"body":"know, there's just that level of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2729.16,"endTime":2733.03,"body":"collaboration is so important."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2729.16,"endTime":2733.03,"body":"On the artistic level, and then"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2733.03,"endTime":2735.94,"body":"it makes, it just makes a better"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2733.03,"endTime":2735.94,"body":"book, you know?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2736.27,"endTime":2738.19,"body":"AbsoluAbsolutely"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2736.27,"endTime":2738.19,"body":"and if they're not going to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2738.19,"endTime":2740.62,"body":"collaborate, then they may as"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2738.19,"endTime":2740.62,"body":"well self publish."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2740.86,"endTime":2741.16,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2741.7,"endTime":2744.25,"body":"Because they're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2741.7,"endTime":2744.25,"body":"not, bringing your expertise,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2744.28,"endTime":2748.87,"body":"you know, they're not open to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2744.28,"endTime":2748.87,"body":"other ideas, then, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2748.87,"endTime":2752.17,"body":"what's the point in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2748.87,"endTime":2752.17,"body":"collaborating with a publisher?"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2752.0,"endTime":2757.67,"body":"Exactly. Yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2752.0,"endTime":2757.67,"body":"Excellent. Point. Um, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2757.67,"endTime":2759.83,"body":"something else about the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2757.67,"endTime":2759.83,"body":"question you asked about the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2759.86,"endTime":2763.7,"body":"changing landscape. And again,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2759.86,"endTime":2763.7,"body":"it's kind of curious about your"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2763.76,"endTime":2767.15,"body":"response to this, too, is sort"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2763.76,"endTime":2767.15,"body":"of like, you know, wasn't there"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2767.15,"endTime":2774.89,"body":"kind of like a golden era of the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2767.15,"endTime":2774.89,"body":"portfolio review? You know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2774.89,"endTime":2779.45,"body":"like, I'm, I met you in Boston,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2774.89,"endTime":2779.45,"body":"and yeah, for a while there, it"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2779.45,"endTime":2784.7,"body":"was, like, Santa Fe, Portland,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2779.45,"endTime":2784.7,"body":"Houston, like, there, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2784.7,"endTime":2788.15,"body":"and, and then it seemed like,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2784.7,"endTime":2788.15,"body":"there were even more and there"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2788.15,"endTime":2791.63,"body":"again, was it kind of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2788.15,"endTime":2791.63,"body":"diffusing a little bit in terms"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2791.63,"endTime":2797.18,"body":"of the effects of that, and it"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2791.63,"endTime":2797.18,"body":"felt more pay to play over time."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2798.5,"endTime":2801.11,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2798.5,"endTime":2801.11,"body":"that's a really great analogy to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2801.11,"endTime":2807.05,"body":"the publishing thing, too. So"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2801.11,"endTime":2807.05,"body":"yeah, so it's kind of like, back"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2807.05,"endTime":2811.19,"body":"in the day, in the Golden Age,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2807.05,"endTime":2811.19,"body":"you know, era of portfolio"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2811.19,"endTime":2814.07,"body":"reviews, there were these couple"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2811.19,"endTime":2814.07,"body":"of, you know, there was Santa"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2814.07,"endTime":2818.69,"body":"Fe, which is like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2814.07,"endTime":2818.69,"body":"Steidel, or, you know, like you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2818.69,"endTime":2822.26,"body":"had these, these reviews, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2818.69,"endTime":2822.26,"body":"they, they were hard to get"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2822.26,"endTime":2827.24,"body":"into, and they meant something"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2822.26,"endTime":2827.24,"body":"and the reviewers were able to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2827.24,"endTime":2831.89,"body":"give real opportunities. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2827.24,"endTime":2831.89,"body":"then yeah, it's like every, just"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2831.89,"endTime":2834.71,"body":"more and more photo festivals"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2831.89,"endTime":2834.71,"body":"were popping up around the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2834.71,"endTime":2837.32,"body":"country, and they all had"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2834.71,"endTime":2837.32,"body":"portfolio reviews, and every,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2837.32,"endTime":2840.8,"body":"like art center was doing a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2837.32,"endTime":2840.8,"body":"portfolio review. And, and yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2840.8,"endTime":2845.78,"body":"I think, for me, I stopped doing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2840.8,"endTime":2845.78,"body":"them for probably four or five"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2845.78,"endTime":2850.55,"body":"years because I was just seeing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2845.78,"endTime":2850.55,"body":"the same work over and over, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2850.55,"endTime":2853.85,"body":"I was seeing the people that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2850.55,"endTime":2853.85,"body":"could really afford to go to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2853.85,"endTime":2859.52,"body":"them tended to be, I don't mean"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2853.85,"endTime":2859.52,"body":"this to sound disparaging in any"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2859.52,"endTime":2864.05,"body":"way. But like, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2859.52,"endTime":2864.05,"body":"retired dentist who found"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2864.05,"endTime":2868.43,"body":"photography, like later in life"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2864.05,"endTime":2868.43,"body":"and was photographing floral"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2868.43,"endTime":2872.63,"body":"arrangements or you know, which"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2868.43,"endTime":2872.63,"body":"were lovely, but not the kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2872.63,"endTime":2878.75,"body":"work that I was getting benefit"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2872.63,"endTime":2878.75,"body":"from connecting with. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2879.23,"endTime":2883.46,"body":"I, you know, I love giving"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2879.23,"endTime":2883.46,"body":"feedback on work, any type of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2883.46,"endTime":2888.92,"body":"work at any level, but in terms"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2883.46,"endTime":2888.92,"body":"of, was it worth my time as a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2888.92,"endTime":2892.7,"body":"publisher to go, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2888.92,"endTime":2892.7,"body":"wasn't finding book projects"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2892.82,"endTime":2896.96,"body":"from doing it. So it was more"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2892.82,"endTime":2896.96,"body":"like, a community service, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2896.96,"endTime":2897.35,"body":"know?"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2897.38,"endTime":2905.48,"body":"Yeah, that all sounds"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2897.38,"endTime":2905.48,"body":"very familiar. And there was,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2905.48,"endTime":2909.41,"body":"you know, there was great work,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2905.48,"endTime":2909.41,"body":"but it it did sort of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2909.41,"endTime":2915.95,"body":"the character changed over time."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2909.41,"endTime":2915.95,"body":"And, you know, I'm wondering if"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2915.95,"endTime":2919.04,"body":"the pandemic just blew a hole in"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2915.95,"endTime":2919.04,"body":"that industry too."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2919.33,"endTime":2925.0,"body":"Well now, so I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2919.33,"endTime":2925.0,"body":"did, so part of it too, was for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2925.0,"endTime":2929.68,"body":"me, personally, you know, I have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2925.0,"endTime":2929.68,"body":"a full time job. So I was like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2929.68,"endTime":2934.0,"body":"am I going to use my vacation"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2929.68,"endTime":2934.0,"body":"days in my full time job to go"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2934.0,"endTime":2940.93,"body":"work for free at a portfolio"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2934.0,"endTime":2940.93,"body":"review? No. For free like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2940.93,"endTime":2945.37,"body":"you will give me a flight and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2940.93,"endTime":2945.37,"body":"hotel, and then I need to work"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2945.37,"endTime":2949.54,"body":"for you for eight hours a day"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2945.37,"endTime":2949.54,"body":"while I'm there. So that also"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2949.54,"endTime":2953.47,"body":"didn't make any sense. But with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2949.54,"endTime":2953.47,"body":"the pandemic, a ton of these"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2953.47,"endTime":2958.75,"body":"reviews have gone online. And I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2953.47,"endTime":2958.75,"body":"was participating, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2958.81,"endTime":2961.63,"body":"participated in several of those"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2958.81,"endTime":2961.63,"body":"and it was interesting um, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2961.63,"endTime":2965.38,"body":"know, there's not like the super"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2961.63,"endTime":2965.38,"body":"awesome camaraderie and hanging"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2965.38,"endTime":2968.23,"body":"out at the hotel bar at the end"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2965.38,"endTime":2968.23,"body":"and then you know, like, you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2968.23,"endTime":2972.07,"body":"not meeting the other reviewers"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2968.23,"endTime":2972.07,"body":"except in the like, combined"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2972.07,"endTime":2978.37,"body":"Zoom Room, you know, (laughs) so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2972.07,"endTime":2978.37,"body":"weird. But it was an interesting"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2978.37,"endTime":2982.36,"body":"way to kind of feed that piece"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2978.37,"endTime":2982.36,"body":"for me that I do enjoy, like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2982.36,"endTime":2987.91,"body":"giving photographers feedback."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2982.36,"endTime":2987.91,"body":"But um, yeah, I mean, I don't"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2987.91,"endTime":2988.84,"body":"know what's gonna happen."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2988.87,"endTime":2991.24,"body":"Yeah, I've done a few"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2988.87,"endTime":2991.24,"body":"virtual ones like a you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2991.24,"endTime":2996.31,"body":"ICP and there's a, there's a,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2991.24,"endTime":2996.31,"body":"there is a value in a sense or a"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2996.31,"endTime":3001.68,"body":"kind of like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":2996.31,"endTime":3001.68,"body":"modernizing upgrade to a virtual"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3001.68,"endTime":3006.48,"body":"portfolio review and that like,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3001.68,"endTime":3006.48,"body":"you know, over time, I mean, for"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3006.48,"endTime":3012.21,"body":"me, I'm not a gallerist so I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3006.48,"endTime":3012.21,"body":"don't need to see the prints,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3012.21,"endTime":3017.91,"body":"but the whole white glove"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3012.21,"endTime":3017.91,"body":"treatment literally it's not"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3017.97,"endTime":3021.42,"body":"always the kind of like right"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3017.97,"endTime":3021.42,"body":"approach when we were in this"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3021.45,"endTime":3028.08,"body":"sort of, you know, fairly rapid"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3021.45,"endTime":3028.08,"body":"fire sort of situation. And I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3028.08,"endTime":3031.59,"body":"think we're also, I mean, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3028.08,"endTime":3031.59,"body":"know, this is still why books"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3031.59,"endTime":3034.89,"body":"are so great like staring at"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3031.59,"endTime":3034.89,"body":"your screens the whole time and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3034.89,"endTime":3038.37,"body":"seeing an image, like that is"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3034.89,"endTime":3038.37,"body":"obviously really different to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3038.37,"endTime":3042.9,"body":"the, you know, physical"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3038.37,"endTime":3042.9,"body":"translation of a printed book,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3042.9,"endTime":3046.47,"body":"but, you know, we're used to it,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3042.9,"endTime":3046.47,"body":"we can do it, we can do it in an"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3046.47,"endTime":3051.39,"body":"edit context, we can do it in a"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3046.47,"endTime":3051.39,"body":"review context. So, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3051.39,"endTime":3055.41,"body":"that's nice, but certainly the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3051.39,"endTime":3055.41,"body":"kind of, I mean, obviously,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3055.41,"endTime":3059.25,"body":"like, the social factor, as you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3055.41,"endTime":3059.25,"body":"describe was, was great. And,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3059.28,"endTime":3066.63,"body":"you know, there were good panels"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3059.28,"endTime":3066.63,"body":"and stuff, but it didn't seem"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3066.63,"endTime":3070.68,"body":"like they necessarily, I don't"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3066.63,"endTime":3070.68,"body":"know, if they hold if they all"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3070.68,"endTime":3071.61,"body":"hold up today."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3072.26,"endTime":3075.29,"body":"Yeah, and I do,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3072.26,"endTime":3075.29,"body":"I agree. And I think to like in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3075.29,"endTime":3078.89,"body":"the online portfolio reviews,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3075.29,"endTime":3078.89,"body":"they become more accessible"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3078.89,"endTime":3083.21,"body":"again, so for the photographer,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3078.89,"endTime":3083.21,"body":"because you have to pay to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3083.21,"endTime":3086.18,"body":"participate in the review"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3083.21,"endTime":3086.18,"body":"period, you know, like, however"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3086.18,"endTime":3088.73,"body":"many hundreds of dollars, but"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3086.18,"endTime":3088.73,"body":"normally, they would also have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3088.73,"endTime":3093.14,"body":"to fly to a place and pay for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3088.73,"endTime":3093.14,"body":"hotel, and print out their"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3093.14,"endTime":3097.16,"body":"portfolio, and bring, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3093.14,"endTime":3097.16,"body":"and create some sort of clever"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3097.19,"endTime":3103.49,"body":"leave behind to give to you, so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3097.19,"endTime":3103.49,"body":"that at the end, I had a heavy"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3103.49,"endTime":3108.2,"body":"bag full of things. And so if"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3103.49,"endTime":3108.2,"body":"you strip away all of those"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3108.2,"endTime":3112.91,"body":"expenses, it does make it a lot"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3108.2,"endTime":3112.91,"body":"more accessible. And so I did"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3112.91,"endTime":3116.48,"body":"feel like I was seeing more"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3112.91,"endTime":3116.48,"body":"interesting work. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3116.48,"endTime":3119.84,"body":"actually, you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3116.48,"endTime":3119.84,"body":"publishing someone who lives in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3119.84,"endTime":3123.29,"body":"Poland, who I met from a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3119.84,"endTime":3123.29,"body":"portfolio review that would"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3123.29,"endTime":3128.06,"body":"never have been able to fly to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3123.29,"endTime":3128.06,"body":"the US to sit down for 20"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3128.06,"endTime":3132.41,"body":"minutes at a time with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3128.06,"endTime":3132.41,"body":"reviewers. So, um, so yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3132.44,"endTime":3134.63,"body":"there are some really good"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3132.44,"endTime":3134.63,"body":"benefits from it, I think."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3136.52,"endTime":3140.0,"body":"Yeah, so I mean, some"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3136.52,"endTime":3140.0,"body":"some of this question is, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3140.0,"endTime":3143.72,"body":"know, finding, finding the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3140.0,"endTime":3143.72,"body":"people on the projects that we"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3143.72,"endTime":3149.78,"body":"publish, right. And I think, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3143.72,"endTime":3149.78,"body":"know, some of that, for me, the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3149.78,"endTime":3154.85,"body":"project has been a little bit"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3149.78,"endTime":3154.85,"body":"one of visibility, and, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3154.85,"endTime":3158.12,"body":"know, not just making a book"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3154.85,"endTime":3158.12,"body":"that, like, gets a lot of media"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3158.12,"endTime":3163.94,"body":"or sells a lot, or something. I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3158.12,"endTime":3163.94,"body":"mean, we were very fortunate"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3164.87,"endTime":3168.38,"body":"this year to public, I finally"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3164.87,"endTime":3168.38,"body":"got to work with Cig Harvey, as"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3168.38,"endTime":3173.15,"body":"you know, and, you know, someone"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3168.38,"endTime":3173.15,"body":"who I think I met, if I'm not"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3173.15,"endTime":3178.46,"body":"mistaken, in Santa Fe, and was"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3173.15,"endTime":3178.46,"body":"just immediately taken with her"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3178.46,"endTime":3182.96,"body":"work. And, you know, she"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3178.46,"endTime":3182.96,"body":"published her first few books,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3183.89,"endTime":3188.48,"body":"with Schilt in, in the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3183.89,"endTime":3188.48,"body":"Netherlands, and great books."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3188.93,"endTime":3192.77,"body":"And, you know, when I was"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3188.93,"endTime":3192.77,"body":"finally in a position of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3192.77,"endTime":3196.16,"body":"Monacelli to start doing"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3192.77,"endTime":3196.16,"body":"photography books again, and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3196.16,"endTime":3199.49,"body":"starting, you know, not starting"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3196.16,"endTime":3199.49,"body":"with but again, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3199.49,"endTime":3205.73,"body":"reuniting with Elinor to publish"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3199.49,"endTime":3205.73,"body":"the Midlife book, and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3205.73,"endTime":3211.49,"body":"really very proud to have had"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3205.73,"endTime":3211.49,"body":"the opportunity to do that,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3211.49,"endTime":3213.74,"body":"because it's really important"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3211.49,"endTime":3213.74,"body":"work, and I think really"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3213.74,"endTime":3218.27,"body":"resounded with with an audience."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3213.74,"endTime":3218.27,"body":"And, you know, ironically"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3218.27,"endTime":3224.3,"body":"enough, that body of work was"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3218.27,"endTime":3224.3,"body":"not that easy for her to get"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3224.3,"endTime":3227.72,"body":"attention for in terms of a book"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3224.3,"endTime":3227.72,"body":"proposal from other publishers."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3227.72,"endTime":3229.79,"body":"And I was finally like, why"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3227.72,"endTime":3229.79,"body":"don't we just do this?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3231.07,"endTime":3233.98,"body":"And the press,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3231.07,"endTime":3233.98,"body":"the press for that book was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3235.09,"endTime":3236.17,"body":"insane."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3236.0,"endTime":3239.39,"body":"I think, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3236.0,"endTime":3239.39,"body":"the, the kind of, like, complete"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3239.39,"endTime":3244.37,"body":"validation of her of her thesis"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3239.39,"endTime":3244.37,"body":"of sustained, you know, self"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3244.37,"endTime":3248.48,"body":"exploration and, and just, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3244.37,"endTime":3248.48,"body":"know, kind of grappling with the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3248.48,"endTime":3251.75,"body":"kind of, you know, the the day"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3248.48,"endTime":3251.75,"body":"to day and the metaphysics of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3251.75,"endTime":3255.53,"body":"this stage in people's life, and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3251.75,"endTime":3255.53,"body":"certainly in my life where, I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3255.53,"endTime":3258.35,"body":"don't know if you know, this,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3255.53,"endTime":3258.35,"body":"Elinor and I are day apart in"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3258.35,"endTime":3264.92,"body":"age, so we always, like, the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3258.35,"endTime":3264.92,"body":"shared journey."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3266.03,"endTime":3269.69,"body":"Awwww, yeah. But"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3266.03,"endTime":3269.69,"body":"you're saying Cig Harvey..."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3269.69,"endTime":3272.66,"body":"Yeah, but then just"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3269.69,"endTime":3272.66,"body":"kind of like the visibility that"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3272.66,"endTime":3276.11,"body":"I was talking about is the kind"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3272.66,"endTime":3276.11,"body":"of, and you know, this was"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3276.11,"endTime":3279.68,"body":"something of the project. You"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3276.11,"endTime":3279.68,"body":"know, years ago at Chronicle is"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3279.68,"endTime":3283.04,"body":"kind of like building a list"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3279.68,"endTime":3283.04,"body":"that, again, as you're saying is"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3283.04,"endTime":3289.55,"body":"diverse. But, you know, has a"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3283.04,"endTime":3289.55,"body":"has a viewpoint and yeah, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3289.55,"endTime":3295.37,"body":"know, in a sense, who the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3289.55,"endTime":3295.37,"body":"idealized audience is for, for"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3295.37,"endTime":3298.67,"body":"these books, and you make the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3295.37,"endTime":3298.67,"body":"books in a certain way that that"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3298.67,"endTime":3305.12,"body":"do resonate. And so, to be able"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3298.67,"endTime":3305.12,"body":"to have a you know, a nice you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3305.12,"endTime":3310.91,"body":"know, again, Cig has a following"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3305.12,"endTime":3310.91,"body":"that is really strong and doing"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3310.91,"endTime":3312.83,"body":"Blue Violet was such a pleasure."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3313.5,"endTime":3317.34,"body":"Cig has a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3313.5,"endTime":3317.34,"body":"following that is like manic."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3318.36,"endTime":3326.31,"body":"The people, the people love her,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3318.36,"endTime":3326.31,"body":"I do, too. I mean, I did a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3326.31,"endTime":3331.44,"body":"podcast with her, it's got like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3326.31,"endTime":3331.44,"body":"twice as many listens as like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3331.47,"endTime":3335.7,"body":"any other, you know, as like the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3331.47,"endTime":3335.7,"body":"second highest one. And, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3335.73,"endTime":3339.63,"body":"the triptych sold out right"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3335.73,"endTime":3339.63,"body":"away. And I was like, so we're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3339.63,"endTime":3343.38,"body":"just gonna change my whole"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3339.63,"endTime":3343.38,"body":"business model to be like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3343.38,"endTime":3349.59,"body":"only publishing Cig Harvey"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3343.38,"endTime":3349.59,"body":"books, and she is a fucking"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3349.62,"endTime":3354.03,"body":"delight. She is just sunshine."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3349.62,"endTime":3354.03,"body":"It's amazing."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3354.0,"endTime":3358.89,"body":"Absolutely. And so,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3354.0,"endTime":3358.89,"body":"you know, just to, to slowly"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3358.89,"endTime":3362.46,"body":"build a list that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3358.89,"endTime":3362.46,"body":"consists of Elinor and Jona"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3362.46,"endTime":3368.37,"body":"Frank and Cig Harvey, and, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3362.46,"endTime":3368.37,"body":"know, we'll, we'll just see"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3368.37,"endTime":3372.9,"body":"where that goes. And also in,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3368.37,"endTime":3372.9,"body":"you know, this is particular to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3372.9,"endTime":3377.31,"body":"my tastes as well. But you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3372.9,"endTime":3377.31,"body":"always I work on a lot of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3377.31,"endTime":3379.86,"body":"architecture books, I love"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3377.31,"endTime":3379.86,"body":"architectural photography, like,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3379.89,"endTime":3385.95,"body":"you know, and, and land art. And"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3379.89,"endTime":3385.95,"body":"we just had this lovely catalog,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3386.28,"endTime":3389.25,"body":"co published with the Nevada"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3386.28,"endTime":3389.25,"body":"Museum of Art coinciding with"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3389.25,"endTime":3394.35,"body":"their exhibition by Gianfranco"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3389.25,"endTime":3394.35,"body":"Gorgoni, Land Art photographs,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3394.41,"endTime":3398.61,"body":"and completely different scale"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3394.41,"endTime":3398.61,"body":"and everything that we're"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3398.61,"endTime":3403.56,"body":"talking in terms of, obviously,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3398.61,"endTime":3403.56,"body":"more like, you know, rooted day"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3403.56,"endTime":3409.74,"body":"to day, observational, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3403.56,"endTime":3409.74,"body":"intimate photographers, but I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3409.74,"endTime":3413.25,"body":"also love that stuff, too. And"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3409.74,"endTime":3413.25,"body":"just, you know, the..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3413.28,"endTime":3415.05,"body":"Yeah it seems"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3413.28,"endTime":3415.05,"body":"like Monacelli is where, like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3415.11,"endTime":3418.44,"body":"you have that range."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3418.66,"endTime":3424.27,"body":"We have the, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3418.66,"endTime":3424.27,"body":"know, this is the, if I don't, I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3424.27,"endTime":3426.73,"body":"don't want to say, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3424.27,"endTime":3426.73,"body":"underdog is kind of a stupid"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3426.73,"endTime":3430.99,"body":"word. But, you know, when, when"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3426.73,"endTime":3430.99,"body":"you are in a position where"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3433.36,"endTime":3441.19,"body":"everyone is, you know, trying to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3433.36,"endTime":3441.19,"body":"figure out why we're doing what"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3441.19,"endTime":3444.97,"body":"we're doing, and how we do it,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3441.19,"endTime":3444.97,"body":"we have a lot of opportunity"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3444.97,"endTime":3450.58,"body":"there. I mean, it's just it, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3444.97,"endTime":3450.58,"body":"know, we're a nearly 30 year old"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3450.58,"endTime":3453.76,"body":"company that people think of as"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3450.58,"endTime":3453.76,"body":"mainly an architecture"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3453.76,"endTime":3457.69,"body":"publisher, but if you look at"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3453.76,"endTime":3457.69,"body":"the, there's, there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3457.69,"endTime":3462.1,"body":"diversity in the list, too. And,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3457.69,"endTime":3462.1,"body":"you know, we're not one of like,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3462.1,"endTime":3467.44,"body":"the, the huge publishers, so we"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3462.1,"endTime":3467.44,"body":"have opportunities to do these"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3467.44,"endTime":3473.59,"body":"books with personality, and then"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3467.44,"endTime":3473.59,"body":"the, the task is always to find,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3473.59,"endTime":3476.95,"body":"you know, find the ways that"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3473.59,"endTime":3476.95,"body":"they can connect with, with the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3476.95,"endTime":3481.81,"body":"audience. So selling is always"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3476.95,"endTime":3481.81,"body":"the, you know, the trick too."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3482.29,"endTime":3485.59,"body":"Yeah, the bummer"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3482.29,"endTime":3485.59,"body":"part. (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3486.68,"endTime":3488.72,"body":"You know, but like"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3486.68,"endTime":3488.72,"body":"you're saying, it was like the,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3488.75,"endTime":3492.62,"body":"the, the books themselves, the"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3488.75,"endTime":3492.62,"body":"artists, you know, that there's,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3493.28,"endTime":3497.21,"body":"there's substance, there are"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3493.28,"endTime":3497.21,"body":"ideas, that are well produced,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3497.21,"endTime":3502.58,"body":"they're design forward and they"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3497.21,"endTime":3502.58,"body":"have a kind of, you know, aura"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3502.58,"endTime":3505.91,"body":"around them that people want to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3502.58,"endTime":3505.91,"body":"get close to it. I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3505.91,"endTime":3510.56,"body":"starting to get a little"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3505.91,"endTime":3510.56,"body":"metaphysical, I get it, but you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3510.56,"endTime":3515.06,"body":"know, there's kind of a"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3510.56,"endTime":3515.06,"body":"transformation of these static"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3515.06,"endTime":3518.54,"body":"images to kind of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3515.06,"endTime":3518.54,"body":"physical object that, that"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3518.54,"endTime":3522.29,"body":"really, you know, it's a great,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3518.54,"endTime":3522.29,"body":"it's a process, it's amazing to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3522.29,"endTime":3527.45,"body":"participate in, and I think,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3522.29,"endTime":3527.45,"body":"consumers audience, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3529.16,"endTime":3532.88,"body":"feel that integrity when they"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3529.16,"endTime":3532.88,"body":"get to these books. So I just"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3532.88,"endTime":3536.51,"body":"want to keep trying to, you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3532.88,"endTime":3536.51,"body":"know, make make them right, in"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3536.51,"endTime":3537.23,"body":"that sense."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3548.88,"endTime":3551.58,"body":"I remember, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3548.88,"endTime":3551.58,"body":"I believe this is correct. You"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3551.58,"endTime":3554.58,"body":"have a tattoo on your wedding"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3551.58,"endTime":3554.58,"body":"finger."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3554.58,"endTime":3555.78,"body":"Mmhmm, yup."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3556.35,"endTime":3561.03,"body":"And so it's like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3556.35,"endTime":3561.03,"body":"a ring tattooed on your finger."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3561.15,"endTime":3563.43,"body":"And I have thought about that."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3563.43,"endTime":3564.93,"body":"And my wife has her"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3563.43,"endTime":3564.93,"body":"tattoo."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3566.04,"endTime":3570.45,"body":"And I've thought"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3566.04,"endTime":3570.45,"body":"about that for years and how"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3570.48,"endTime":3576.0,"body":"ballsy that is and awesome, like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3570.48,"endTime":3576.0,"body":"the conviction of not only"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3576.0,"endTime":3580.8,"body":"getting married but getting it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3576.0,"endTime":3580.8,"body":"tattooed and have been so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3580.8,"endTime":3583.14,"body":"pleased that the marriage is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3580.8,"endTime":3583.14,"body":"working out."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3584.43,"endTime":3585.78,"body":"Well, thank you."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3585.81,"endTime":3588.3,"body":"But I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3585.81,"endTime":3588.3,"body":"was married when we met, I got"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3588.3,"endTime":3592.65,"body":"divorced. I was thinking, I'm so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3588.3,"endTime":3592.65,"body":"glad I don't have a tattoo on my"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3592.65,"endTime":3593.13,"body":"finger."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3593.13,"endTime":3594.51,"body":"Mmmhhmm, I know."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3594.51,"endTime":3597.3,"body":"But, I think"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3594.51,"endTime":3597.3,"body":"that I also think I knew ahead"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3597.3,"endTime":3599.4,"body":"of time, that wouldn't be the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3597.3,"endTime":3599.4,"body":"best idea."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3599.45,"endTime":7205.03,"body":"Well, I mean, that"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":3599.45,"endTime":7205.03,"body":"makes sense and you know it's"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7205.03,"endTime":7208.96,"body":"certainly a commitment even more"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7205.03,"endTime":7208.96,"body":"than the one you're supposed to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7208.96,"endTime":7213.79,"body":"be making in the act of getting"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7208.96,"endTime":7213.79,"body":"married right but that's that's"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7213.79,"endTime":7218.5,"body":"supposed to be a lifelong thing"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7213.79,"endTime":7218.5,"body":"and and I think we knew when we"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7218.5,"endTime":7223.12,"body":"met that this this was going to"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7218.5,"endTime":7223.12,"body":"be this is going to be it and of"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7223.12,"endTime":7226.18,"body":"course life happens and you know"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7223.12,"endTime":7226.18,"body":"there's ups and downs and we"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7226.18,"endTime":7230.65,"body":"have a nine year old and"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7226.18,"endTime":7230.65,"body":"everything but yeah, I never I"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7230.65,"endTime":7234.91,"body":"never never have second thoughts"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7230.65,"endTime":7234.91,"body":"on this ring. I think I think"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7234.91,"endTime":7239.44,"body":"we're needing to kind of get it"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7234.91,"endTime":7239.44,"body":"enhanced because next year is"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7239.44,"endTime":7240.97,"body":"the 20th anniversary."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":7241.44,"endTime":7242.91,"body":"Wow!"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7242.94,"endTime":7246.45,"body":"Yeah. So, Jen sends"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7242.94,"endTime":7246.45,"body":"her best as well."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":7246.81,"endTime":7247.8,"body":"Tell her I said"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":7246.81,"endTime":7247.8,"body":"hi."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7247.8,"endTime":7249.0,"body":"And I hope we can..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":7250.26,"endTime":7253.08,"body":"Oh, I know. I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":7250.26,"endTime":7253.08,"body":"hoping to get to New York soon."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":7253.08,"endTime":7254.52,"body":"It's been a year and a half."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7255.06,"endTime":7256.68,"body":"Oh, yeah, of course."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7255.06,"endTime":7256.68,"body":"I hope we can connect."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":7256.68,"endTime":7257.91,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7258.3,"endTime":7261.18,"body":"But yeah, I think you"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7258.3,"endTime":7261.18,"body":"know, if we split that would be"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7261.21,"endTime":7266.97,"body":"the thing you got to do is chop"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7261.21,"endTime":7266.97,"body":"off the finger. That's the only"},{"speaker":"Alan Rapp","startTime":7266.97,"endTime":7267.39,"body":"way to... (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":7267.75,"endTime":7271.65,"body":"Lose the wife,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":7267.75,"endTime":7271.65,"body":"lose the finger. Yeah, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":7271.65,"endTime":7272.46,"body":"makes sense to me."}]}