{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":6.81,"endTime":8.7,"body":"Welcome to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":6.81,"endTime":8.7,"body":"Perfect Bound. I'm Jennifer"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":8.73,"endTime":11.46,"body":"Yoffy, the founder and publisher"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":8.73,"endTime":11.46,"body":"of Yoffy Press in Atlanta,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":11.46,"endTime":14.85,"body":"Georgia. This is a podcast where"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":11.46,"endTime":14.85,"body":"we talk to artists about their"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":14.85,"endTime":18.21,"body":"journey, how they got where they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":14.85,"endTime":18.21,"body":"are, what right and wrong turns"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":18.21,"endTime":20.61,"body":"they made along the way, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":18.21,"endTime":20.61,"body":"where they're heading next."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":27.59,"endTime":30.8,"body":"Andres Gonzalez is an educator"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":27.59,"endTime":30.8,"body":"and visual artist whose current"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":30.8,"endTime":33.44,"body":"work engages with in depth"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":30.8,"endTime":33.44,"body":"research to investigate"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":33.44,"endTime":36.86,"body":"relationships between ritual,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":33.44,"endTime":36.86,"body":"memory, and place within the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":36.86,"endTime":41.03,"body":"American social landscape. He's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":36.86,"endTime":41.03,"body":"published two books Somewhere in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":41.03,"endTime":44.63,"body":"2012, which was made over a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":41.03,"endTime":44.63,"body":"decade while living in Istanbul,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":44.93,"endTime":48.68,"body":"and American Origami in 2019,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":44.93,"endTime":48.68,"body":"which won the Lightwork Photo"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":48.68,"endTime":51.74,"body":"Book award and was shortlisted"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":48.68,"endTime":51.74,"body":"for the Paris Photo Aperture"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":51.74,"endTime":55.13,"body":"Book Awards. He's received"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":51.74,"endTime":55.13,"body":"recognition from the Pulitzer"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":55.13,"endTime":59.45,"body":"Center, the Alexia Foundation,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":55.13,"endTime":59.45,"body":"and as a Fulbright Fellow. His"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":59.45,"endTime":62.33,"body":"work has been exhibited at the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":59.45,"endTime":62.33,"body":"San Francisco Museum of Art, the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":62.33,"endTime":65.33,"body":"Ogden Museum of Southern Art,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":62.33,"endTime":65.33,"body":"The Stedelijk Museum in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":65.33,"endTime":68.24,"body":"Amsterdam, and the Museum of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":65.33,"endTime":68.24,"body":"Contemporary Photography in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":68.24,"endTime":70.97,"body":"Chicago, where he's also"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":68.24,"endTime":70.97,"body":"collaborated with the Columbia"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":70.97,"endTime":74.06,"body":"College Theatre department and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":70.97,"endTime":74.06,"body":"members from Tectonic Theater"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":74.06,"endTime":77.54,"body":"Project in a theatrical"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":74.06,"endTime":77.54,"body":"adaptation of American Origami."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":77.87,"endTime":81.02,"body":"Please welcome Andreas Gonzales"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":77.87,"endTime":81.02,"body":"to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":90.87,"endTime":92.1,"body":"What are you doing in Chicago?"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":92.54,"endTime":97.37,"body":"So I'm here in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":92.54,"endTime":97.37,"body":"Chicago. Because this exhibition"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":97.37,"endTime":101.0,"body":"I was in at the Museum of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":97.37,"endTime":101.0,"body":"Contemporary Photography, called"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":101.0,"endTime":106.91,"body":"Guns in"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":101.0,"endTime":106.91,"body":"America. It's a group show and I"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":106.91,"endTime":112.22,"body":"proposed an idea to stage a kind"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":106.91,"endTime":112.22,"body":"of performance of American"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":112.22,"endTime":114.47,"body":"Oregon, I didn't know what that"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":112.22,"endTime":114.47,"body":"was like. I just talked to Karen"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":114.47,"endTime":118.61,"body":"about it, thought I, you know,"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":114.47,"endTime":118.61,"body":"it could evolve in some kind of"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":118.61,"endTime":124.28,"body":"performative piece. And, over a"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":118.61,"endTime":124.28,"body":"period of a year, it evolved"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":124.28,"endTime":130.73,"body":"into a collaboration with two"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":124.28,"endTime":130.73,"body":"members of this theatre company"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":130.73,"endTime":135.68,"body":"called Tectonic Theater Project"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":130.73,"endTime":135.68,"body":"out of New York. And I'm working"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":135.68,"endTime":139.85,"body":"with a director named Jimmy"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":135.68,"endTime":139.85,"body":"Maize, and the Columbia College"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":139.85,"endTime":144.41,"body":"Theatre Department to produce a"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":139.85,"endTime":144.41,"body":"theatrical adaptation of"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":144.41,"endTime":153.65,"body":"American Origami. And it's"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":144.41,"endTime":153.65,"body":"really interesting in that for"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":153.65,"endTime":161.33,"body":"me, I have completely given over"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":153.65,"endTime":161.33,"body":"this project that I held, in"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":161.33,"endTime":165.14,"body":"this book that I held so tightly"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":161.33,"endTime":165.14,"body":"for so long, I kind of gave it"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":165.14,"endTime":175.13,"body":"over to a group of creative"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":165.14,"endTime":175.13,"body":"people to dismantle, completely,"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":175.55,"endTime":182.66,"body":"like, deconstruct and use a"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":175.55,"endTime":182.66,"body":"completely different creative"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":182.66,"endTime":186.92,"body":"process to reconstruct it. And,"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":182.66,"endTime":186.92,"body":"you know, it's even to the point"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":186.92,"endTime":194.03,"body":"where I've, like, I'm a"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":186.92,"endTime":194.03,"body":"character in the play. As the"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":194.21,"endTime":198.83,"body":"author of the work, we decided"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":194.21,"endTime":198.83,"body":"we really wanted the students to"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":198.83,"endTime":205.76,"body":"have a lot of agency in creating"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":198.83,"endTime":205.76,"body":"the production. And, they"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":205.76,"endTime":211.58,"body":"decided, and I was involved in"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":205.76,"endTime":211.58,"body":"the script, the script writing,"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":211.61,"endTime":214.85,"body":"but mostly as a consultant, I"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":211.61,"endTime":214.85,"body":"mean, I really did give the work"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":214.88,"endTime":220.28,"body":"over to this group, to, to work"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":214.88,"endTime":220.28,"body":"with. And the students decided"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":220.28,"endTime":228.05,"body":"they wanted to, they created a"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":220.28,"endTime":228.05,"body":"set where it takes place almost"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":228.05,"endTime":233.54,"body":"in this dream like archive, so"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":228.05,"endTime":233.54,"body":"there's all the materials there"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":233.63,"endTime":237.89,"body":"in pictures, and they scanned a"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":233.63,"endTime":237.89,"body":"lot of the book and, and made"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":237.89,"endTime":241.97,"body":"photographs of the artifacts."},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":237.89,"endTime":241.97,"body":"And they're using projectors,"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":241.97,"endTime":245.66,"body":"these school projectors that,"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":241.97,"endTime":245.66,"body":"you know, project texts on the"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":245.66,"endTime":248.81,"body":"wall for students in classrooms."},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":245.66,"endTime":248.81,"body":"They're using two of them to"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":248.81,"endTime":257.57,"body":"create this, this, this kind of"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":248.81,"endTime":257.57,"body":"dreamlike archival, you know,"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":257.57,"endTime":262.16,"body":"they're like all these little"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":257.57,"endTime":262.16,"body":"worker elves are looking through"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":262.46,"endTime":265.46,"body":"the material and discovering the"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":262.46,"endTime":265.46,"body":"stories and discovering"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":265.46,"endTime":269.18,"body":"interviews with people. And"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":265.46,"endTime":269.18,"body":"what's really beautiful about"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":269.18,"endTime":273.47,"body":"the way it's structured is they"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":269.18,"endTime":273.47,"body":"all approach the audience and"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":273.47,"endTime":279.14,"body":"they speak to the audience as"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":273.47,"endTime":279.14,"body":"themselves, as you know, as"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":279.14,"endTime":284.21,"body":"themselves discovering this"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":279.14,"endTime":284.21,"body":"work, but over the term over"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":284.21,"endTime":289.37,"body":"over the hour long play, the"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":284.21,"endTime":289.37,"body":"students begin to embody the"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":289.37,"endTime":294.95,"body":"characters that they discover,"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":289.37,"endTime":294.95,"body":"and they turn into these these"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":294.95,"endTime":298.19,"body":"different people that I"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":294.95,"endTime":298.19,"body":"interviewed. And as they're"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":298.19,"endTime":302.18,"body":"doing that they they are also"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":298.19,"endTime":302.18,"body":"engage in dialogue with with"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":302.18,"endTime":307.28,"body":"each other. And so the audience"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":302.18,"endTime":307.28,"body":"disappears. And you just see"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":307.28,"endTime":314.15,"body":"these, these students become the"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":307.28,"endTime":314.15,"body":"people I interviewed, and, and"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":314.15,"endTime":318.59,"body":"they cut the interviews in a"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":314.15,"endTime":318.59,"body":"way, like they kind of found"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":318.59,"endTime":322.22,"body":"moments in the interviews, where"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":318.59,"endTime":322.22,"body":"these different characters are"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":322.22,"endTime":325.49,"body":"talking to each other in a"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":322.22,"endTime":325.49,"body":"dialogue. And it's all very"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":325.49,"endTime":329.48,"body":"fluid. Like, at one point,"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":325.49,"endTime":329.48,"body":"there's maybe four or five"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":329.48,"endTime":332.36,"body":"different characters on stage."},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":329.48,"endTime":332.36,"body":"And they're all talking to each"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":332.36,"endTime":338.36,"body":"other, through these interviews"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":332.36,"endTime":338.36,"body":"that I did, and it becomes very"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":338.36,"endTime":342.71,"body":"surreal, and no, and this swirl,"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":338.36,"endTime":342.71,"body":"this just swirl of voices and"},{"speaker":"American Epidemic","startTime":342.71,"endTime":343.07,"body":"images."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":343.07,"endTime":344.45,"body":"Yeah, wow!"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":345.02,"endTime":346.85,"body":"And it's really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":345.02,"endTime":346.85,"body":"beautiful the way they did it."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":347.96,"endTime":349.13,"body":"And it's being"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":347.96,"endTime":349.13,"body":"recorded?"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":349.88,"endTime":352.1,"body":"It is being"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":349.88,"endTime":352.1,"body":"recorded, I'm not sure when"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":352.1,"endTime":355.46,"body":"they're going to post it online,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":352.1,"endTime":355.46,"body":"but it is going to be recorded."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":356.02,"endTime":359.47,"body":"It's so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":356.02,"endTime":359.47,"body":"fascinating, because I mean, so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":359.47,"endTime":363.01,"body":"we talked about your book as"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":359.47,"endTime":363.01,"body":"very dense, there's a lot there,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":363.01,"endTime":365.95,"body":"it was on my coffee table for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":363.01,"endTime":365.95,"body":"months and months, because I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":365.95,"endTime":370.36,"body":"would just pick it up and go"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":365.95,"endTime":370.36,"body":"through a bit at a time. So it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":370.36,"endTime":374.86,"body":"interesting, you know that to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":370.36,"endTime":374.86,"body":"have a different experience of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":374.92,"endTime":379.18,"body":"the work and the concept into an"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":374.92,"endTime":379.18,"body":"hour long performance."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":380.68,"endTime":384.7,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":380.68,"endTime":384.7,"body":"that's been, what's the most"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":384.7,"endTime":388.9,"body":"amazing thing for me is to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":384.7,"endTime":388.9,"body":"experience my own work in a way"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":388.9,"endTime":393.67,"body":"that I could never have come up"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":388.9,"endTime":393.67,"body":"with on my on my own, and it and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":393.67,"endTime":399.01,"body":"it makes me engage with the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":393.67,"endTime":399.01,"body":"material in a totally different"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":399.01,"endTime":405.31,"body":"way. I mean, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":399.01,"endTime":405.31,"body":"movements on stage, and the way"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":405.31,"endTime":411.46,"body":"that these different characters"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":405.31,"endTime":411.46,"body":"are speaking to each other. You"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":411.46,"endTime":413.92,"body":"know, in my head, as I was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":411.46,"endTime":413.92,"body":"making the book, I'm like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":413.92,"endTime":417.58,"body":"these, there's all these"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":413.92,"endTime":417.58,"body":"different echoes, there's like"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":417.58,"endTime":426.07,"body":"these echoes of different ideas"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":417.58,"endTime":426.07,"body":"and narratives, and experiences,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":426.67,"endTime":429.64,"body":"kind of flowing through all"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":426.67,"endTime":429.64,"body":"these different interviews and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":429.64,"endTime":432.94,"body":"these little vignettes that I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":429.64,"endTime":432.94,"body":"that I put in the book. And I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":432.94,"endTime":436.3,"body":"was I kind of want the real,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":432.94,"endTime":436.3,"body":"like, it takes a really close"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":436.3,"endTime":440.86,"body":"reader to find those. But when"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":436.3,"endTime":440.86,"body":"you see it on stage, it all kind"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":440.86,"endTime":445.9,"body":"of comes together. Like all"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":440.86,"endTime":445.9,"body":"those ideas start to weave"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":445.9,"endTime":449.05,"body":"together in this way. That's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":445.9,"endTime":449.05,"body":"very experiential, as opposed to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":449.2,"endTime":455.02,"body":"intellectual. I mean, it is, it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":449.2,"endTime":455.02,"body":"is like, it is kind of kind of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":455.02,"endTime":457.84,"body":"brainy the way they they did it."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":455.02,"endTime":457.84,"body":"You really have to kind of pay"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":457.84,"endTime":461.5,"body":"attention. But it's much more"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":457.84,"endTime":461.5,"body":"experiential. I feel like you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":461.5,"endTime":465.07,"body":"walk in and you're being rained"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":461.5,"endTime":465.07,"body":"on for, you know, an hour with"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":465.1,"endTime":470.05,"body":"like this, you know, just being"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":465.1,"endTime":470.05,"body":"soaked in it and soaked in all"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":470.05,"endTime":474.28,"body":"the material. And it's, it's, it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":470.05,"endTime":474.28,"body":"was really, it's really great"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":474.28,"endTime":478.36,"body":"for me as an artist to be able"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":474.28,"endTime":478.36,"body":"to experience my own work in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":478.36,"endTime":484.48,"body":"this totally new format, I feel"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":478.36,"endTime":484.48,"body":"like it just has kind of blown"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":484.48,"endTime":485.26,"body":"my mind a little bit."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":485.35,"endTime":489.34,"body":"Yeah, I love"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":485.35,"endTime":489.34,"body":"that. Well, I have some"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":489.34,"endTime":493.39,"body":"questions about the American"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":489.34,"endTime":493.39,"body":"Origami work. So this is a good"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":493.42,"endTime":497.44,"body":"lead in. So you were living"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":493.42,"endTime":497.44,"body":"abroad and then you returned to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":497.44,"endTime":501.37,"body":"the US in 2012, just a couple of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":497.44,"endTime":501.37,"body":"weeks before the Sandy Hook"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":501.52,"endTime":506.2,"body":"shooting. That event set you on"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":501.52,"endTime":506.2,"body":"a course, which eventually"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":506.2,"endTime":509.89,"body":"became the American Origami"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":506.2,"endTime":509.89,"body":"work. And I was curious what"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":509.89,"endTime":513.13,"body":"effect you felt with the timing."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":509.89,"endTime":513.13,"body":"So coming back to this country"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":513.13,"endTime":518.08,"body":"after observing it kind of from"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":513.13,"endTime":518.08,"body":"across the world, what effect"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":518.08,"endTime":522.31,"body":"that had on your perception of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":518.08,"endTime":522.31,"body":"the state of America and the gun"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":522.31,"endTime":523.45,"body":"violence here."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":525.22,"endTime":528.19,"body":"Yes, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":525.22,"endTime":528.19,"body":"Carolyn and I (Carolyn Drake my"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":528.19,"endTime":536.14,"body":"partner) we were abroad for a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":528.19,"endTime":536.14,"body":"pretty long time. On and off. We"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":536.14,"endTime":540.16,"body":"were first in Ukraine, and we"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":536.14,"endTime":540.16,"body":"moved to Istanbul. And we were"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":540.16,"endTime":542.95,"body":"there you know, during the Bush"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":540.16,"endTime":542.95,"body":"years and weapons of mass"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":542.95,"endTime":548.11,"body":"destruction. It wasn't like the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":542.95,"endTime":548.11,"body":"it wasn't the best time. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":548.11,"endTime":552.91,"body":"now looking back at it well, to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":548.11,"endTime":552.91,"body":"say it wasn't the best time to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":552.91,"endTime":556.06,"body":"be an American abroad,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":552.91,"endTime":556.06,"body":"especially, you know, I was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":556.42,"endTime":561.67,"body":"traveling a lot for work and,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":556.42,"endTime":561.67,"body":"you know, taking, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":561.67,"endTime":568.3,"body":"dipping in the Middle East and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":561.67,"endTime":568.3,"body":"and it wasn't, you know, I felt"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":569.62,"endTime":573.1,"body":"like, if at first I wanted to be"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":569.62,"endTime":573.1,"body":"defensive, you know, maybe my"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":573.1,"endTime":580.96,"body":"default was be a little"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":573.1,"endTime":580.96,"body":"defensive of America. That broke"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":580.96,"endTime":587.26,"body":"down pretty quickly. As we were"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":580.96,"endTime":587.26,"body":"living abroad, but then Obama"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":587.26,"endTime":592.03,"body":"got elected, and that that was a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":587.26,"endTime":592.03,"body":"huge mental shift as far as like"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":592.03,"endTime":596.5,"body":"what it felt like for me to be,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":592.03,"endTime":596.5,"body":"you know, an American. So when"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":596.5,"endTime":601.48,"body":"we came back, I still had this"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":596.5,"endTime":601.48,"body":"feeling of I don't know, like,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":601.48,"endTime":604.66,"body":"there was like a, I felt like"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":601.48,"endTime":604.66,"body":"there was a sea change"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":604.66,"endTime":608.86,"body":"happening. And, and so coming"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":604.66,"endTime":608.86,"body":"back, I really thought I was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":608.86,"endTime":611.17,"body":"gonna do something a little more"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":608.86,"endTime":611.17,"body":"uplifting about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":611.17,"endTime":620.02,"body":"coming home. I felt strange"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":611.17,"endTime":620.02,"body":"from, um, but yeah, when two"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":620.02,"endTime":625.96,"body":"weeks after I moved back and it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":620.02,"endTime":625.96,"body":"just totally, it totally turned"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":625.96,"endTime":630.52,"body":"me around and just really, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":625.96,"endTime":630.52,"body":"know, I felt like I just put"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":630.52,"endTime":634.75,"body":"this dark cloud over anything"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":630.52,"endTime":634.75,"body":"creative that I wanted to do."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":634.81,"endTime":644.62,"body":"And I became really interested"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":634.81,"endTime":644.62,"body":"in, in this phenomenon. Not"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":644.62,"endTime":649.33,"body":"necessarily in gun violence"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":644.62,"endTime":649.33,"body":"broadly, but I became really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":649.33,"endTime":651.85,"body":"interested in this phenomenon"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":649.33,"endTime":651.85,"body":"of, of mass shootings, and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":651.85,"endTime":656.14,"body":"especially mass shootings in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":651.85,"endTime":656.14,"body":"schools, just children killing"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":656.14,"endTime":660.49,"body":"children and, and why it was so"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":656.14,"endTime":660.49,"body":"prevalent in the United States."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":661.03,"endTime":664.3,"body":"So I started following the, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":661.03,"endTime":664.3,"body":"know, what was happening"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":664.3,"endTime":674.83,"body":"politically around gun control,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":664.3,"endTime":674.83,"body":"and, and I, I just kind of fell"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":674.83,"endTime":680.26,"body":"into... I hate to use the word"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":674.83,"endTime":680.26,"body":"obsessed, but I really did"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":680.26,"endTime":689.32,"body":"become extremely concerned and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":680.26,"endTime":689.32,"body":"interested in all things"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":689.35,"endTime":695.17,"body":"surrounding the Sandy Hook"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":689.35,"endTime":695.17,"body":"shooting. And, you know, part of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":695.17,"endTime":699.52,"body":"it, I think, was that the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":695.17,"endTime":699.52,"body":"emotions from that day when that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":699.52,"endTime":705.31,"body":"happened, were so extreme. And"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":699.52,"endTime":705.31,"body":"partly, it's from, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":706.6,"endTime":715.3,"body":"moving back feeling a little"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":706.6,"endTime":715.3,"body":"uncomfortable in my skin. We"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":715.3,"endTime":720.94,"body":"moved to Mississippi, right"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":715.3,"endTime":720.94,"body":"after Istanbul to a small town,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":720.97,"endTime":726.01,"body":"and, `I was just like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":720.97,"endTime":726.01,"body":"there's this like, cultural"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":726.01,"endTime":735.16,"body":"shift and, and just feeling a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":726.01,"endTime":735.16,"body":"little alienated. And, and not"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":735.16,"endTime":738.07,"body":"it's not exactly what I expected"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":735.16,"endTime":738.07,"body":"coming home, especially after"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":738.07,"endTime":745.72,"body":"the Sandy Hook shooting. So,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":738.07,"endTime":745.72,"body":"four months later, universal"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":745.72,"endTime":749.83,"body":"background checks didn't pass in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":745.72,"endTime":749.83,"body":"Congress and that's when that's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":749.83,"endTime":758.92,"body":"really when I start to dig into"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":749.83,"endTime":758.92,"body":"the research and, and read"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":758.92,"endTime":763.84,"body":"about, you know, the history of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":758.92,"endTime":763.84,"body":"gun control and why this shit"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":763.84,"endTime":769.06,"body":"just can't (sigh) why we why we"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":763.84,"endTime":769.06,"body":"can't just use common sense"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":769.06,"endTime":769.78,"body":"around this."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":770.32,"endTime":773.62,"body":"Right, why we"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":770.32,"endTime":773.62,"body":"can just pull it together and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":774.34,"endTime":775.75,"body":"come up with a solution."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":776.08,"endTime":778.33,"body":"Yeah, and I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":776.08,"endTime":778.33,"body":"just, I just started reading a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":778.33,"endTime":783.67,"body":"lot. And, and at that point, it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":778.33,"endTime":783.67,"body":"wasn't really a project. I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":783.67,"endTime":786.82,"body":"didn't, it was just like an"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":783.67,"endTime":786.82,"body":"interest. And I and I kept"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":786.82,"endTime":790.87,"body":"telling myself, I can't like,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":786.82,"endTime":790.87,"body":"like, there's nothing I can,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":791.11,"endTime":795.1,"body":"like I can do, there's nothing I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":791.11,"endTime":795.1,"body":"can do. There's nothing that,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":795.67,"endTime":799.36,"body":"you know, creatively, I can"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":795.67,"endTime":799.36,"body":"explore that, or immerse myself"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":799.36,"endTime":802.84,"body":"in and that's gonna make any"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":799.36,"endTime":802.84,"body":"kind of difference. Because I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":803.26,"endTime":806.14,"body":"was really thinking from this"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":803.26,"endTime":806.14,"body":"place of like, wanting to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":806.14,"endTime":809.59,"body":"protest and I still think that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":806.14,"endTime":809.59,"body":"this is I think American Origami"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":810.82,"endTime":813.13,"body":"turned into like a quiet act of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":810.82,"endTime":813.13,"body":"protest."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":813.79,"endTime":814.81,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":814.84,"endTime":817.03,"body":"But at that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":814.84,"endTime":817.03,"body":"point, I wanted to do something"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":817.03,"endTime":821.53,"body":"really, I really wanted to,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":817.03,"endTime":821.53,"body":"like, do something really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":821.53,"endTime":827.47,"body":"proactive and, and I started"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":821.53,"endTime":827.47,"body":"just by researching, but um, and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":827.47,"endTime":830.47,"body":"reading books, and you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":827.47,"endTime":830.47,"body":"anything I could find online,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":830.47,"endTime":835.18,"body":"and and pretty quickly, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":830.47,"endTime":835.18,"body":"started to notice patterns in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":835.18,"endTime":840.19,"body":"the narrative that's told around"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":835.18,"endTime":840.19,"body":"school shootings and this, like,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":840.28,"endTime":847.15,"body":"regression to you know, really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":840.28,"endTime":847.15,"body":"oversimplified notions of like"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":847.15,"endTime":852.34,"body":"good and evil. And how the media"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":847.15,"endTime":852.34,"body":"like all these, all the imagery"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":852.34,"endTime":857.56,"body":"around in the media, around"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":852.34,"endTime":857.56,"body":"school shootings, become like"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":857.56,"endTime":860.59,"body":"tropes, and you see the same"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":857.56,"endTime":860.59,"body":"imagery over and over and over"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":860.59,"endTime":863.26,"body":"the same narratives over and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":860.59,"endTime":863.26,"body":"over and over and then you hear"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":863.29,"endTime":868.84,"body":"presidents give their speeches,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":863.29,"endTime":868.84,"body":"and it's the same script. And"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":868.84,"endTime":873.25,"body":"just the, the, that repetition,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":868.84,"endTime":873.25,"body":"I became really interested in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":873.25,"endTime":881.44,"body":"and and I started to feel like,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":873.25,"endTime":881.44,"body":"you know, there's, we know that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":881.44,"endTime":885.31,"body":"this is there's like a cyclical"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":881.44,"endTime":885.31,"body":"nature to this type of violence."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":885.85,"endTime":892.33,"body":"But I wanted to see if I really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":885.85,"endTime":892.33,"body":"leaned into thinking more deeply"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":892.33,"endTime":899.23,"body":"about that cyclical nature, and,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":892.33,"endTime":899.23,"body":"and think about other ways that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":901.3,"endTime":906.25,"body":"we kind of repeat ourselves in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":901.3,"endTime":906.25,"body":"the wake of these tragedies. I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":906.25,"endTime":909.01,"body":"started thinking a lot about"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":906.25,"endTime":909.01,"body":"that. And eventually it turned"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":909.01,"endTime":915.13,"body":"into, yeah, it turned into a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":909.01,"endTime":915.13,"body":"project. I think the, the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":915.13,"endTime":919.27,"body":"turning point for me, when I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":915.13,"endTime":919.27,"body":"really started thinking that I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":919.27,"endTime":924.13,"body":"might be able to explore"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":919.27,"endTime":924.13,"body":"something that I hadn't thought"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":924.13,"endTime":928.63,"body":"of before was when I, I sent my"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":924.13,"endTime":928.63,"body":"first Freedom of Information Act"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":928.63,"endTime":936.37,"body":"request to get the Columbine"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":928.63,"endTime":936.37,"body":"documents. And it was basically"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":936.37,"endTime":941.29,"body":"like, over 20,000 pages of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":936.37,"endTime":941.29,"body":"forensic material. And then"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":941.29,"endTime":944.56,"body":"there were some journals, some"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":941.29,"endTime":944.56,"body":"journal entries that they had"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":944.56,"endTime":949.51,"body":"found by Dylan and Eric, the two"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":944.56,"endTime":949.51,"body":"boys that committed the murders"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":950.35,"endTime":957.25,"body":"and I just started to, to feel"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":950.35,"endTime":957.25,"body":"this form of empathy that I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":957.25,"endTime":965.32,"body":"hadn't before. And it freaked me"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":957.25,"endTime":965.32,"body":"out. And, and, and that's, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":965.32,"endTime":967.72,"body":"spent, like two weeks just"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":965.32,"endTime":967.72,"body":"reading through all their"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":967.72,"endTime":972.97,"body":"journals, just reading and I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":967.72,"endTime":972.97,"body":"think, you know, it really, it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":972.97,"endTime":980.53,"body":"really started to test or"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":972.97,"endTime":980.53,"body":"challenge what I believed"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":980.56,"endTime":984.94,"body":"empathy could be and, and like I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":980.56,"endTime":984.94,"body":"said, I it, it freaked me out a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":984.94,"endTime":989.29,"body":"little bit. But that, that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":984.94,"endTime":989.29,"body":"emotion, that very complicated"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":989.29,"endTime":995.11,"body":"emotion started to make me think"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":989.29,"endTime":995.11,"body":"that I could I could find"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":995.11,"endTime":999.1,"body":"something, that there was, there"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":995.11,"endTime":999.1,"body":"must, must be more to find"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":999.13,"endTime":1004.44,"body":"within the subtext of this"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":999.13,"endTime":1004.44,"body":"particular type of violence."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1005.35,"endTime":1007.63,"body":"Yeah, can you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1005.35,"endTime":1007.63,"body":"talk a little bit more about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1007.63,"endTime":1012.52,"body":"that empathy piece, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1007.63,"endTime":1012.52,"body":"can imagine that being jarring."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1012.91,"endTime":1016.9,"body":"Because obviously, school"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1012.91,"endTime":1016.9,"body":"shootings, it's something that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1017.38,"endTime":1020.65,"body":"is horrifying, and that we, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1017.38,"endTime":1020.65,"body":"know, want to stop and we're all"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1020.65,"endTime":1028.18,"body":"against and, and then reading"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1020.65,"endTime":1028.18,"body":"kind of the inner thoughts of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1028.18,"endTime":1031.78,"body":"the people that perpetrated it,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1028.18,"endTime":1031.78,"body":"and feeling a connectivity in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1031.78,"endTime":1035.59,"body":"any way, you know, would be"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1031.78,"endTime":1035.59,"body":"disturbing. So how do you think"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1035.59,"endTime":1039.82,"body":"that..., can you just talk a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1035.59,"endTime":1039.82,"body":"little bit more about how that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1039.85,"endTime":1044.92,"body":"feeling shifted the way you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1039.85,"endTime":1044.92,"body":"approach the project?"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1044.0,"endTime":1052.76,"body":"So I started"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1044.0,"endTime":1052.76,"body":"to, when you start to go through"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1052.76,"endTime":1058.64,"body":"these journals, a lot of it is,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1052.76,"endTime":1058.64,"body":"is, is what you might expect. I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1058.64,"endTime":1061.4,"body":"mean, it's a lot of teenage"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1058.64,"endTime":1061.4,"body":"angst, but incredibly"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1061.4,"endTime":1069.32,"body":"intensified. And a lot of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1061.4,"endTime":1069.32,"body":"violent language. But somewhere,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1069.32,"endTime":1073.28,"body":"kind of hidden in between the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1069.32,"endTime":1073.28,"body":"lines, you start to see these"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1073.28,"endTime":1077.51,"body":"two kids just their, their"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1073.28,"endTime":1077.51,"body":"vulnerability really, really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1077.51,"endTime":1085.13,"body":"comes through and, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1077.51,"endTime":1085.13,"body":"lot of... I hate to try and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1085.13,"endTime":1089.12,"body":"interpret the texts, the the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1085.13,"endTime":1089.12,"body":"journals, I, I struggled with"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1089.12,"endTime":1093.29,"body":"that, because, you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1089.12,"endTime":1093.29,"body":"projecting my own bias, my own"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1093.29,"endTime":1096.17,"body":"experience, and personal"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1093.29,"endTime":1096.17,"body":"experiences onto these texts. So"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1099.56,"endTime":1106.19,"body":"I have a hard time talking about"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1099.56,"endTime":1106.19,"body":"them and presenting them in the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1106.19,"endTime":1110.75,"body":"book was a big struggle. I, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1106.19,"endTime":1110.75,"body":"know, at one point, I had a lot"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1110.75,"endTime":1114.05,"body":"of the journals in there because"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1110.75,"endTime":1114.05,"body":"I wanted that jolt, I wanted"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1114.05,"endTime":1119.72,"body":"that emotional jolt. I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1114.05,"endTime":1119.72,"body":"eventually ended up just putting"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1119.72,"endTime":1128.33,"body":"in just a very, very few pages"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1119.72,"endTime":1128.33,"body":"from the journals, but you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1129.8,"endTime":1133.19,"body":"there's this Toni Morrison talk"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1129.8,"endTime":1133.19,"body":"that she gave at the Harvard"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1133.19,"endTime":1140.12,"body":"Divinity School that I, I found,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1133.19,"endTime":1140.12,"body":"as I was right around the time"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1140.12,"endTime":1147.41,"body":"that I was reading these"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1140.12,"endTime":1147.41,"body":"journals and and she, she gives"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1147.41,"endTime":1154.43,"body":"us talk about art and altruism."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1147.41,"endTime":1154.43,"body":"And, and it was the, the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1154.43,"endTime":1161.27,"body":"foundation of the talk was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1154.43,"endTime":1161.27,"body":"she's, it was basically a, a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1161.27,"endTime":1167.72,"body":"talk about her search for"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1161.27,"endTime":1167.72,"body":"meaning after, or her search for"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1167.75,"endTime":1171.62,"body":"a response for her own personal"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1167.75,"endTime":1171.62,"body":"response to the Amish school"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1171.62,"endTime":1178.22,"body":"shooting. That happened in I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1171.62,"endTime":1178.22,"body":"believe, is 2009. But I can't"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1178.22,"endTime":1181.34,"body":"remember right now off the top"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1178.22,"endTime":1181.34,"body":"of my head, I believe in 2009."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1183.32,"endTime":1189.65,"body":"And in the talk, she's, she said"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1183.32,"endTime":1189.65,"body":"something like she's talking"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1189.65,"endTime":1195.92,"body":"about, you know, what art can do"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1189.65,"endTime":1195.92,"body":"in these situations. And she"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1195.92,"endTime":1200.51,"body":"said something like she's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1195.92,"endTime":1200.51,"body":"talking about literature. But I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1200.54,"endTime":1205.82,"body":"took it as thinking about art"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1200.54,"endTime":1205.82,"body":"broadly, and she said something"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1206.87,"endTime":1214.82,"body":"like the, the power of, of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1206.87,"endTime":1214.82,"body":"literature is its ability to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1214.82,"endTime":1219.5,"body":"illuminate the moral questions"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1214.82,"endTime":1219.5,"body":"embedded in the narrative. And"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1220.73,"endTime":1227.93,"body":"that, that I took that idea, as"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1220.73,"endTime":1227.93,"body":"I was thinking about, as I was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1227.93,"endTime":1234.8,"body":"reading these, these journals, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1227.93,"endTime":1234.8,"body":"was really thinking hard about"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1235.22,"endTime":1241.67,"body":"that thought about what the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1235.22,"endTime":1241.67,"body":"moral questions might be. And,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1242.48,"endTime":1247.04,"body":"and, you know, I'm sorry, if"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1242.48,"endTime":1247.04,"body":"this is kind of going off on a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1247.04,"endTime":1247.64,"body":"tangent..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1247.88,"endTime":1249.47,"body":"No, no, I love"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1247.88,"endTime":1249.47,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1249.63,"endTime":1254.55,"body":"But as I was, as I was reading"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1249.63,"endTime":1254.55,"body":"these journals, and just"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1254.55,"endTime":1258.15,"body":"thinking a lot about empathy,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1254.55,"endTime":1258.15,"body":"and what that what that might"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1258.15,"endTime":1263.13,"body":"mean, in this context, when"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1258.15,"endTime":1263.13,"body":"you're, when, you know, I'm, I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1263.13,"endTime":1267.99,"body":"looking at these two kids and,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1263.13,"endTime":1267.99,"body":"you know, they're writing about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1267.99,"endTime":1273.24,"body":"their broken hearts, and, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1267.99,"endTime":1273.24,"body":"know, being teased. And there's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1273.24,"endTime":1281.13,"body":"one entry, where, you know, one"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1273.24,"endTime":1281.13,"body":"of the boys is writing, he wrote"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1281.13,"endTime":1283.62,"body":"a memory, it was a memory about,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1281.13,"endTime":1283.62,"body":"and this isn't his personal"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1283.62,"endTime":1288.36,"body":"journal, but a memory about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1283.62,"endTime":1288.36,"body":"being on the school bus as a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1288.36,"endTime":1291.72,"body":"kid, and how is a refuge and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1288.36,"endTime":1291.72,"body":"where they could talk about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1291.72,"endTime":1295.77,"body":"personal things, and he talked"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1291.72,"endTime":1295.77,"body":"about his friend with his big"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1295.77,"endTime":1300.93,"body":"goofy brown eyes and talking"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1295.77,"endTime":1300.93,"body":"about a girlfriend, and it just,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1300.96,"endTime":1307.86,"body":"you know, you, you, you see, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1300.96,"endTime":1307.86,"body":"started to see where there were"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1307.86,"endTime":1313.2,"body":"these turning points that might"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1307.86,"endTime":1313.2,"body":"have occurred, and again, I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1313.2,"endTime":1317.07,"body":"just projecting, that's what I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1313.2,"endTime":1317.07,"body":"kind of have a hard time talking"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1317.07,"endTime":1319.26,"body":"about these journals, because a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1317.07,"endTime":1319.26,"body":"lot of it is really just"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1319.26,"endTime":1320.25,"body":"interpretation."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1322.1,"endTime":1326.36,"body":"I think it is super interesting,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1322.1,"endTime":1326.36,"body":"though, because, you know, at"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1326.36,"endTime":1331.58,"body":"face value, you the school"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1326.36,"endTime":1331.58,"body":"shooting, it's about gun"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1331.58,"endTime":1336.29,"body":"violence, you know, but then if"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1331.58,"endTime":1336.29,"body":"you take it to a, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1336.29,"endTime":1342.08,"body":"next level deeper about, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1336.29,"endTime":1342.08,"body":"know, and kind of turn the gaze"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1342.08,"endTime":1345.02,"body":"on to the shooters and what, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1342.08,"endTime":1345.02,"body":"know, what must have, like, the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1345.02,"endTime":1348.56,"body":"pain that they must have felt or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1345.02,"endTime":1348.56,"body":"what, you know, experiences they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1348.56,"endTime":1353.78,"body":"went through, that brought them"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1348.56,"endTime":1353.78,"body":"to this point of desperation, or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1354.59,"endTime":1358.07,"body":"whatever you would want to call"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1354.59,"endTime":1358.07,"body":"it, you know, to do this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1358.37,"endTime":1364.4,"body":"incredibly horrific act of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1358.37,"endTime":1364.4,"body":"violence. But it kind of calls"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1364.4,"endTime":1369.23,"body":"the question a deeper, or an"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1364.4,"endTime":1369.23,"body":"additional layer of systemic"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1369.23,"endTime":1374.96,"body":"problem of bullying, or, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1369.23,"endTime":1374.96,"body":"know, like, just kind of the way"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1374.96,"endTime":1380.51,"body":"that people are with each other,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1374.96,"endTime":1380.51,"body":"that can cause these deep"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1380.51,"endTime":1381.29,"body":"wounds."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1382.14,"endTime":1387.12,"body":"Right, and, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1382.14,"endTime":1387.12,"body":"know, I, I don't want to, again,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1387.93,"endTime":1391.05,"body":"I struggled to talk about these"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1387.93,"endTime":1391.05,"body":"journals, and what I felt"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1391.05,"endTime":1401.13,"body":"because I risk romanticizing"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1391.05,"endTime":1401.13,"body":"these, these murders, and, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1401.13,"endTime":1406.08,"body":"know, there is a movement, to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1401.13,"endTime":1406.08,"body":"not name the perpetrators of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1406.08,"endTime":1410.4,"body":"these crimes. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1406.08,"endTime":1410.4,"body":"like in the play, we decided,w"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1410.43,"endTime":1415.98,"body":"e're not going to name them."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1410.43,"endTime":1415.98,"body":"We're just going to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1415.98,"endTime":1421.32,"body":"anytime their names come up in,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1415.98,"endTime":1421.32,"body":"in, in the interviews, we just"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1421.35,"endTime":1428.85,"body":"substitute the shooter, and, and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1421.35,"endTime":1428.85,"body":"so, I have a really hard time"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1428.85,"endTime":1433.59,"body":"talking about talking about"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1428.85,"endTime":1433.59,"body":"them, because what I really am"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1434.07,"endTime":1439.35,"body":"talking about is the feeling"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1434.07,"endTime":1439.35,"body":"that that empathy that confused"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1439.35,"endTime":1446.25,"body":"me, and, and thinking, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1439.35,"endTime":1446.25,"body":"when I look at the research I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1446.25,"endTime":1450.09,"body":"was doing online at first, and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1446.25,"endTime":1450.09,"body":"seeing the narratives broken"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1450.09,"endTime":1459.09,"body":"down into these really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1450.09,"endTime":1459.09,"body":"oversimpli`fied terms that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1459.09,"endTime":1463.32,"body":"angered me, because, I felt like"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1459.09,"endTime":1463.32,"body":"the humanity, there's, there's a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1463.32,"endTime":1466.32,"body":"piece of humanity that was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1463.32,"endTime":1466.32,"body":"missing. And especially, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1466.32,"endTime":1470.1,"body":"know, after every one of these"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1466.32,"endTime":1470.1,"body":"shootings, there's always some"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1470.1,"endTime":1476.31,"body":"kind of, in depth profile of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1470.1,"endTime":1476.31,"body":"these kids, or, you know, or a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1476.31,"endTime":1480.72,"body":"parent or one of the parents or"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1476.31,"endTime":1480.72,"body":"the kids and that always really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1480.72,"endTime":1489.69,"body":"bothered me, because I felt it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1480.72,"endTime":1489.69,"body":"did, like, give so much"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1489.69,"endTime":1497.85,"body":"attention to the perpetrator of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1489.69,"endTime":1497.85,"body":"a crime. And so sensational, it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1497.85,"endTime":1500.25,"body":"just ends up being so"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1497.85,"endTime":1500.25,"body":"sensationalized. And the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1500.25,"endTime":1503.07,"body":"journals are very sensational."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1500.25,"endTime":1503.07,"body":"You know, if you'd see them, if"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1503.07,"endTime":1507.63,"body":"you take a look at them, it's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1503.07,"endTime":1507.63,"body":"they're just really extreme. So"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1507.63,"endTime":1509.31,"body":"I have a hard time reconciling"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1507.63,"endTime":1509.31,"body":"all of it."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1511.02,"endTime":1518.01,"body":"Yeah, all of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1511.02,"endTime":1518.01,"body":"that makes sense. Yeah, its a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1518.01,"endTime":1519.42,"body":"very thin line."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1519.93,"endTime":1522.69,"body":"But I only"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1519.93,"endTime":1522.69,"body":"mention it, you know, and maybe"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1522.69,"endTime":1525.63,"body":"we're taking too much time here"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1522.69,"endTime":1525.63,"body":"talking about them, but I only"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1525.63,"endTime":1530.49,"body":"mentioned it because when I was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1525.63,"endTime":1530.49,"body":"going through them, I, I felt"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1530.49,"endTime":1532.44,"body":"something different. And I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1530.49,"endTime":1532.44,"body":"thought, Okay, what else is"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1532.44,"endTime":1537.63,"body":"there that I can look at? Where,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1532.44,"endTime":1537.63,"body":"where else? Are there gaps? What"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1537.63,"endTime":1544.5,"body":"else can I bring forward, that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1537.63,"endTime":1544.5,"body":"may activate a different kind of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1544.5,"endTime":1551.79,"body":"thinking around this very unique"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1544.5,"endTime":1551.79,"body":"type of violence. So that that's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1551.79,"endTime":1554.34,"body":"why I mentioned it because it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1551.79,"endTime":1554.34,"body":"really was a turning point. But"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1554.34,"endTime":1560.22,"body":"in the end, it wasn't a focus,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1554.34,"endTime":1560.22,"body":"it was just what led me to start"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1560.7,"endTime":1565.41,"body":"looking at other things and, and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1560.7,"endTime":1565.41,"body":"wondering what was just under"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1565.41,"endTime":1570.3,"body":"the surface, and literally, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1565.41,"endTime":1570.3,"body":"found you know, in these"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1570.3,"endTime":1574.5,"body":"archives, I found these all"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1570.3,"endTime":1574.5,"body":"these material objects that were"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1574.77,"endTime":1580.8,"body":"left at the sites, and that's,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1574.77,"endTime":1580.8,"body":"that's where I found kind of the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1580.8,"endTime":1584.22,"body":"bulk of my attention being"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1580.8,"endTime":1584.22,"body":"focused on."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1585.02,"endTime":1590.6,"body":"Yeah, so it kind"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1585.02,"endTime":1590.6,"body":"of shifted from being maybe more"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1590.6,"endTime":1601.34,"body":"like, factual reporting to a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1590.6,"endTime":1601.34,"body":"more like, human reaction or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1601.34,"endTime":1603.56,"body":"response to it, would you say"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1601.34,"endTime":1603.56,"body":"that's true? I mean, because"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1603.56,"endTime":1606.35,"body":"it's like, it's the two kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1603.56,"endTime":1606.35,"body":"halves of the book, right?"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1607.23,"endTime":1615.48,"body":"Yeah. What I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1607.23,"endTime":1615.48,"body":"ended up focusing on you know, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1615.48,"endTime":1620.82,"body":"sent in, I got this material"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1615.48,"endTime":1620.82,"body":"from from, from Columbine. And,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1620.88,"endTime":1624.48,"body":"and then after that, I thought,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1620.88,"endTime":1624.48,"body":"Okay, this is gonna be a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1624.48,"endTime":1632.52,"body":"research, I need to just really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1624.48,"endTime":1632.52,"body":"dig into research, and find, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1632.52,"endTime":1634.83,"body":"know, original texts and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1632.52,"endTime":1634.83,"body":"materials, and archival and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1634.83,"endTime":1641.73,"body":"forensic materials to compile"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1634.83,"endTime":1641.73,"body":"and, and start to sift through"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1641.73,"endTime":1648.9,"body":"and see what what I find. The"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1641.73,"endTime":1648.9,"body":"photography part of it, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1648.9,"endTime":1651.87,"body":"know, initially, I didn't think"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1648.9,"endTime":1651.87,"body":"of it as a, as a photo project,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1651.9,"endTime":1656.85,"body":"even though I just, I thought,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1651.9,"endTime":1656.85,"body":"okay, am I gonna write, like, is"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1656.85,"endTime":1663.21,"body":"this gonna be something that I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1656.85,"endTime":1663.21,"body":"write, write for? Or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1663.21,"endTime":1667.32,"body":"maybe it's something that's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1663.21,"endTime":1667.32,"body":"purely archival, and curating,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1667.35,"endTime":1669.84,"body":"you know, all this forensic"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1667.35,"endTime":1669.84,"body":"material, I didn't really know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1670.47,"endTime":1675.24,"body":"for a long time, what it what it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1670.47,"endTime":1675.24,"body":"was gonna turn into. But it did"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1675.24,"endTime":1682.02,"body":"end up being more about, about"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1675.24,"endTime":1682.02,"body":"our about the collective"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1682.17,"endTime":1686.94,"body":"response to to these shootings,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1682.17,"endTime":1686.94,"body":"as opposed to, you know, looking"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1686.94,"endTime":1691.29,"body":"at the shootings, specifically"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1686.94,"endTime":1691.29,"body":"themselves. And that happened"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1691.29,"endTime":1694.2,"body":"when I went to the first the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1691.29,"endTime":1694.2,"body":"first place I went to, and this"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1694.2,"endTime":1698.55,"body":"is maybe this is probably like,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1694.2,"endTime":1698.55,"body":"maybe eight months after I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1698.55,"endTime":1702.81,"body":"started really, really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1698.55,"endTime":1702.81,"body":"researching, going to Northern"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1702.81,"endTime":1706.65,"body":"Illinois University. Here"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1702.81,"endTime":1706.65,"body":"actually really close to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1706.65,"endTime":1711.84,"body":"Chicago. And I went there"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1706.65,"endTime":1711.84,"body":"thinking, because at that point"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1711.84,"endTime":1715.83,"body":"I was still collecting archival"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1711.84,"endTime":1715.83,"body":"stuff. And I thought, Okay, I'm"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1715.83,"endTime":1719.67,"body":"going to go through their"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1715.83,"endTime":1719.67,"body":"microfiche, and, you know, see"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1719.67,"endTime":1725.73,"body":"if they'd collected any like, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1719.67,"endTime":1725.73,"body":"don't know, like, local, like"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1725.73,"endTime":1731.04,"body":"media clips, media, archival"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1725.73,"endTime":1731.04,"body":"stuff that I might want to put"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1731.04,"endTime":1733.17,"body":"in the book. And I thought,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1731.04,"endTime":1733.17,"body":"Okay, I'm gonna go to every site"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1733.2,"endTime":1735.3,"body":"of these, you know, different"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1733.2,"endTime":1735.3,"body":"schools, and I'm just gonna"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1735.3,"endTime":1740.73,"body":"collect stuff. And when I got"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1735.3,"endTime":1740.73,"body":"here, the librarian there, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1740.73,"endTime":1743.55,"body":"guess she's the, the director of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1740.73,"endTime":1743.55,"body":"the archives, she's like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1743.55,"endTime":1749.91,"body":"have you seen our, you know, our"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1743.55,"endTime":1749.91,"body":"T 14 collection? Because this"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1749.94,"endTime":1753.99,"body":"the the shooting happened on on"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1749.94,"endTime":1753.99,"body":"Valentine's Day, when I was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1753.99,"endTime":1756.45,"body":"like, oh, no, what's your"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1753.99,"endTime":1756.45,"body":"collection, and she brought out"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1756.45,"endTime":1760.44,"body":"this binder. And in the binder"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1756.45,"endTime":1760.44,"body":"was just this list of all the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1760.44,"endTime":1764.04,"body":"stuff that they'd collected. And"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1760.44,"endTime":1764.04,"body":"I was like, Whoa, what is this?"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1764.73,"endTime":1769.17,"body":"And so I just chose a box. And"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1764.73,"endTime":1769.17,"body":"she brought out a box, and it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1769.17,"endTime":1775.38,"body":"was just filled with letters and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1769.17,"endTime":1775.38,"body":"photographs, and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1776.19,"endTime":1779.7,"body":"paintings and like, there's a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1776.19,"endTime":1779.7,"body":"big, big box and just sifting"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1779.7,"endTime":1783.36,"body":"through it. And it was just, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1779.7,"endTime":1783.36,"body":"know, I had heard that some of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1783.36,"endTime":1786.69,"body":"this stuff was collected at"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1783.36,"endTime":1786.69,"body":"different, you know, sites. I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1786.78,"endTime":1791.16,"body":"just didn't realize the amount"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1786.78,"endTime":1791.16,"body":"like it, the binder, just, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1791.16,"endTime":1795.96,"body":"know, the list, the catalog just"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1791.16,"endTime":1795.96,"body":"went on and on and on. And I was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1795.96,"endTime":1799.08,"body":"like, wow, what is this stuff?"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1795.96,"endTime":1799.08,"body":"And I said, I started going"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1799.08,"endTime":1802.44,"body":"through it You read these"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1799.08,"endTime":1802.44,"body":"letters, you know, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1802.44,"endTime":1808.05,"body":"was, initially I was really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1802.44,"endTime":1808.05,"body":"moved by these, these long"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1808.05,"endTime":1813.27,"body":"handwritten letters. They were"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1808.05,"endTime":1813.27,"body":"just so trying so hard to, to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1813.27,"endTime":1817.83,"body":"grasp what had happened. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1813.27,"endTime":1817.83,"body":"but they also, you know, like,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1818.22,"endTime":1821.34,"body":"some were like confessionals,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1818.22,"endTime":1821.34,"body":"like, people would write"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1821.34,"endTime":1824.94,"body":"anonymously about their own"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1821.34,"endTime":1824.94,"body":"tragedy. And the letters weren't"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1824.94,"endTime":1827.91,"body":"sent to anyone specifically, it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1824.94,"endTime":1827.91,"body":"was just like, sent to the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1827.91,"endTime":1832.14,"body":"school or sent to the city and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1827.91,"endTime":1832.14,"body":"to the hospital. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1833.16,"endTime":1835.41,"body":"Ah, like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1833.16,"endTime":1835.41,"body":"communal therapy."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1836.53,"endTime":1837.55,"body":"So interesting..."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1837.55,"endTime":1838.39,"body":"You could see"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1837.55,"endTime":1838.39,"body":"how it was, like really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1838.39,"endTime":1841.96,"body":"cathartic for people. But, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1838.39,"endTime":1841.96,"body":"know, for people that would"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1841.96,"endTime":1848.65,"body":"write them. A lot of it though,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1841.96,"endTime":1848.65,"body":"was really a lot of it was also"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1848.68,"endTime":1853.21,"body":"like this. I'm using this like,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1848.68,"endTime":1853.21,"body":"sentimental language is kind of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1853.21,"endTime":1855.73,"body":"embedded in our collective"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1853.21,"endTime":1855.73,"body":"consciousness, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1856.18,"endTime":1860.65,"body":"thoughts and prayers language?"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1856.18,"endTime":1860.65,"body":"Yeah. You know, um, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1860.65,"endTime":1864.25,"body":"our hearts are with you, or"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1860.65,"endTime":1864.25,"body":"Jesus loves you or whatever,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1864.28,"endTime":1868.75,"body":"whatever it may be. A lot of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1864.28,"endTime":1868.75,"body":"religious memorabilia."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1870.61,"endTime":1872.86,"body":"I read about the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1870.61,"endTime":1872.86,"body":"teddy bears."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1873.22,"endTime":1873.7,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1874.21,"endTime":1879.19,"body":"I just never thought about that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1874.21,"endTime":1879.19,"body":"before, like, the volume of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1879.22,"endTime":1883.39,"body":"teddy bears that gets sent, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1879.22,"endTime":1883.39,"body":"know, like you see, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1883.39,"endTime":1887.47,"body":"like you were saying just these"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1883.39,"endTime":1887.47,"body":"kind of common news images, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1887.47,"endTime":1891.85,"body":"know, you see where they create"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1887.47,"endTime":1891.85,"body":"these memorial things with"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1891.85,"endTime":1895.12,"body":"candles and flowers and so many"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1891.85,"endTime":1895.12,"body":"teddy bears and I didn't realize"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1895.12,"endTime":1897.37,"body":"they got saved in a lot of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1895.12,"endTime":1897.37,"body":"cases."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1897.54,"endTime":1901.23,"body":"A lot of times. Yeah, these"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1897.54,"endTime":1901.23,"body":"like, I mean, it's like"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1901.23,"endTime":1907.77,"body":"everything from teddy bears to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1901.23,"endTime":1907.77,"body":"huge banners to somebody sent"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1907.77,"endTime":1910.77,"body":"like a tricycle, there's a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1907.77,"endTime":1910.77,"body":"tricycle, I found a tricycle in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1910.77,"endTime":1916.98,"body":"the Columbine Museum. That was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1910.77,"endTime":1916.98,"body":"like painted in Columbine"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1916.98,"endTime":1925.17,"body":"colors. There was I'm sorry, I'm"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1916.98,"endTime":1925.17,"body":"blanking here. Oh, there's like"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1925.17,"endTime":1929.91,"body":"a there is a like a bowling pin"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1925.17,"endTime":1929.91,"body":"that was signed. There's like"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1930.24,"endTime":1933.42,"body":"goggles that I find from"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1930.24,"endTime":1933.42,"body":"chemistry labs, you know, that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1933.42,"endTime":1937.2,"body":"were from like they're left by"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1933.42,"endTime":1937.2,"body":"lab partners. The teddy bears,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1937.2,"endTime":1943.17,"body":"you're probably thinking about"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1937.2,"endTime":1943.17,"body":"the statistics or the number"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1943.17,"endTime":1949.92,"body":"that I got from. She was, she's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1943.17,"endTime":1949.92,"body":"an amateur photographer and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1950.67,"endTime":1955.59,"body":"resident of Newtown. She told me"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1950.67,"endTime":1955.59,"body":"that Newtown received over"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1955.59,"endTime":1960.96,"body":"65,000 teddy bears. And that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1955.59,"endTime":1960.96,"body":"stuff all got incinerated, which"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1960.96,"endTime":1965.31,"body":"is a whole other story I could"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1960.96,"endTime":1965.31,"body":"tell you about but yeah, the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1965.31,"endTime":1968.4,"body":"Newtown stuff the Newtown"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1965.31,"endTime":1968.4,"body":"archive, when I when I got to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1968.91,"endTime":1973.2,"body":"Hartford, its in the Hartford"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1968.91,"endTime":1973.2,"body":"State Archive, the archive, they"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1973.2,"endTime":1976.83,"body":"didn't have a lot of stuff. It"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1973.2,"endTime":1976.83,"body":"was really tightly curated. Most"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1976.83,"endTime":1979.53,"body":"of it got incinerated, because"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1976.83,"endTime":1979.53,"body":"they were just inundated like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1979.6,"endTime":1982.48,"body":"the same. What"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1979.6,"endTime":1982.48,"body":"do you do with 65,000 teddy"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1982.0,"endTime":1985.223,"body":"And like half a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1982.0,"endTime":1985.223,"body":"million letters and like every,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1982.48,"endTime":1982.99,"body":"bears..."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1985.292,"endTime":1989.613,"body":"you know, and they, they moved"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1985.292,"endTime":1989.613,"body":"it from place to place trying to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1989.681,"endTime":1993.728,"body":"store it. And eventually it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1989.681,"endTime":1993.728,"body":"ended up in this small airplane"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1993.796,"endTime":1997.706,"body":"hangar outside of town and it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1993.796,"endTime":1997.706,"body":"just filled up the airplane"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1997.774,"endTime":2002.095,"body":"hangar and eventually the city"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":1997.774,"endTime":2002.095,"body":"just didn't know what to do with"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2002.164,"endTime":2006.279,"body":"it. So they they decided to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2002.164,"endTime":2006.279,"body":"incinerate it in in the the town"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2006.348,"endTime":2010.531,"body":"over called Bridgeport. And that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2006.348,"endTime":2010.531,"body":"stuff, you know, it all came"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2010.14,"endTime":2063.75,"body":"I thought that was really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2010.14,"endTime":2063.75,"body":"interesting too, and not"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2010.6,"endTime":2015.058,"body":"down to like a three by three by"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2010.6,"endTime":2015.058,"body":"three foot box. It's a they they"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2015.127,"endTime":2018.968,"body":"call it sacred soil. I'd"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2015.127,"endTime":2018.968,"body":"actually tried to go see it but"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2019.036,"endTime":2023.22,"body":"I wasn't able to, it's locked"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2019.036,"endTime":2023.22,"body":"underneath city hall. But yeah,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2023.288,"endTime":2027.472,"body":"I mean, those that material, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2023.288,"endTime":2027.472,"body":"know, when you started going"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2027.541,"endTime":2031.793,"body":"through it, and you see that was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2027.541,"endTime":2031.793,"body":"another thing where I started"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2031.862,"endTime":2036.114,"body":"really recognizing patterns in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2031.862,"endTime":2036.114,"body":"the language and how we respond"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2036.183,"endTime":2040.435,"body":"and and that's one thing that I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2036.183,"endTime":2040.435,"body":"really ended up focusing on is"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2040.504,"endTime":2044.344,"body":"just the grief ritual around"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2040.504,"endTime":2044.344,"body":"school shootings, the grief"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2044.413,"endTime":2048.528,"body":"rituals around things around"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2044.413,"endTime":2048.528,"body":"school shootings and and that's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2048.597,"endTime":2052.163,"body":"where the title comes from"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2048.597,"endTime":2052.163,"body":"American Origami. So many"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2052.232,"endTime":2055.867,"body":"origami cranes, hundreds of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2052.232,"endTime":2055.867,"body":"them. I can became really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2055.936,"endTime":2059.914,"body":"obsessed with that, with how"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2055.936,"endTime":2059.914,"body":"that tradition, that Japanese"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2059.982,"endTime":2061.08,"body":"tradition had..."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2063.75,"endTime":2067.92,"body":"something I expected that would"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2063.75,"endTime":2067.92,"body":"be repeated from place to place."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2068.62,"endTime":2072.55,"body":"Yeah, it's it's really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2068.62,"endTime":2072.55,"body":"interesting to me how that story"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2072.55,"endTime":2076.54,"body":"was appropriated. You know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2072.55,"endTime":2076.54,"body":"through this children's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2076.57,"endTime":2081.1,"body":"children's book that was written"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2076.57,"endTime":2081.1,"body":"in the 70s called Sadako and the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2081.7,"endTime":2086.44,"body":"1000 Paper Cranes. The story"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2081.7,"endTime":2086.44,"body":"about it is there's you know, in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2086.44,"endTime":2091.06,"body":"Japanese culture, there's a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2086.44,"endTime":2091.06,"body":"story that if you if you make"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2091.09,"endTime":2094.84,"body":"1000 paper cranes in a year,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2091.09,"endTime":2094.84,"body":"you're granted a wish. And"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2094.84,"endTime":2099.25,"body":"there's this little girl she's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2094.84,"endTime":2099.25,"body":"12 years old Sadako Sasaki who"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2099.25,"endTime":2102.85,"body":"had, she had been diagnosed with"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2099.25,"endTime":2102.85,"body":"this really acute form of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2102.88,"endTime":2109.6,"body":"leukemia because of the bombing,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2102.88,"endTime":2109.6,"body":"the atomic bomb in Hiroshima and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2109.6,"endTime":2115.48,"body":"she ended up dying. But within a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2109.6,"endTime":2115.48,"body":"year, she made over 1400 cranes"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2116.17,"endTime":2121.39,"body":"and, and became this national"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2116.17,"endTime":2121.39,"body":"heroine, there's the this"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2121.75,"endTime":2126.88,"body":"beautiful memorial to her in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2121.75,"endTime":2126.88,"body":"People's Park, and people come"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2126.88,"endTime":2129.79,"body":"and like leave cranes there all"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2126.88,"endTime":2129.79,"body":"the time. The Obamas left two"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2129.79,"endTime":2134.8,"body":"cranes there when he was in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2129.79,"endTime":2134.8,"body":"office, but um, but there's this"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2134.8,"endTime":2136.75,"body":"children's book, it's an"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2134.8,"endTime":2136.75,"body":"American children's book that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2136.87,"endTime":2142.72,"body":"was written in the 70s by"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2136.87,"endTime":2142.72,"body":"Eleanor Coerr, and she, she"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2142.93,"endTime":2146.59,"body":"basically retold the story to an"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2142.93,"endTime":2146.59,"body":"American audience. And what I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2146.59,"endTime":2149.65,"body":"found really fascinating about"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2146.59,"endTime":2149.65,"body":"it was that she changed the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2149.65,"endTime":2154.03,"body":"narrative so that Sadako"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2149.65,"endTime":2154.03,"body":"actually doesn't make 1400"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2154.03,"endTime":2159.91,"body":"cranes she only makes, she"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2154.03,"endTime":2159.91,"body":"makes, I think 646."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2160.54,"endTime":2161.17,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2162.43,"endTime":2168.22,"body":"The remaining"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2162.43,"endTime":2168.22,"body":"cranes were made by her friends"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2168.22,"endTime":2172.69,"body":"and classmates. It was such an"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2168.22,"endTime":2172.69,"body":"such an interesting twist to the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2172.69,"endTime":2176.17,"body":"narrative or change to the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2172.69,"endTime":2176.17,"body":"narrative. I obsessed over that."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2176.17,"endTime":2179.5,"body":"I reached out, she passed away"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2176.17,"endTime":2179.5,"body":"by the time I found out about"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2179.83,"endTime":2180.31,"body":"the book."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2180.88,"endTime":2181.75,"body":"The author?"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2181.0,"endTime":2183.37,"body":"The author,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2181.0,"endTime":2183.37,"body":"yeah, I reached out to the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2183.37,"endTime":2187.9,"body":"illustrator to see if he knew"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2183.37,"endTime":2187.9,"body":"why and he didn't. So it remains"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2187.9,"endTime":2193.48,"body":"a mystery. But I, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2187.9,"endTime":2193.48,"body":"found it very, almost like an"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2193.48,"endTime":2198.73,"body":"American, a very American"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2193.48,"endTime":2198.73,"body":"ending, you know, it's, it's,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2199.66,"endTime":2205.39,"body":"it's, um, it's not like, Oh, she"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2199.66,"endTime":2205.39,"body":"made over 1000 cranes, and she"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2205.39,"endTime":2208.78,"body":"didn't get a wish, it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2205.39,"endTime":2208.78,"body":"that she didn't make it, but her"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2209.05,"endTime":2214.12,"body":"community came together to like,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2209.05,"endTime":2214.12,"body":"you know, to help heal and, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2214.12,"endTime":2218.17,"body":"know, heal the country or"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2214.12,"endTime":2218.17,"body":"whatever. And that's, that, to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2218.17,"endTime":2221.5,"body":"me, felt very American,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2218.17,"endTime":2221.5,"body":"especially like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2221.53,"endTime":2226.54,"body":"relating that narrative to a lot"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2221.53,"endTime":2226.54,"body":"of the script in presidential"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2226.54,"endTime":2231.16,"body":"speeches, how, you know, they"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2226.54,"endTime":2231.16,"body":"always mentioned that, this,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2231.85,"endTime":2234.49,"body":"these tragedies bring Americans"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2231.85,"endTime":2234.49,"body":"together, they bring us together"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2234.49,"endTime":2239.8,"body":"as a nation. I just found that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2234.49,"endTime":2239.8,"body":"really interesting, especially"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2239.8,"endTime":2244.21,"body":"since it's you know, this"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2239.8,"endTime":2244.21,"body":"shooting comes from this really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2244.21,"endTime":2249.79,"body":"incredible, incredibly horrific"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2244.21,"endTime":2249.79,"body":"act of violence that Americans"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2251.44,"endTime":2253.42,"body":"dropped on the Japenese."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2253.66,"endTime":2255.91,"body":"Yes, yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2253.66,"endTime":2255.91,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2256.03,"endTime":2258.91,"body":"Almost this"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2256.03,"endTime":2258.91,"body":"like subtext of absolution, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2258.91,"endTime":2263.47,"body":"know, that I found really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2258.91,"endTime":2263.47,"body":"interesting. But yeah, that's,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2263.53,"endTime":2264.79,"body":"that's kind of where that all"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2263.53,"endTime":2264.79,"body":"came from."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2265.47,"endTime":2268.44,"body":"So I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2265.47,"endTime":2268.44,"body":"ask you about the design, which,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2268.5,"endTime":2273.21,"body":"obviously, is super unique. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2268.5,"endTime":2273.21,"body":"we can get into that in a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2273.21,"endTime":2278.79,"body":"second, but I read that you had"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2273.21,"endTime":2278.79,"body":"an original design, and that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2279.9,"endTime":2284.04,"body":"mock up was shortlisted for the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2279.9,"endTime":2284.04,"body":"Mac First Book Award, but then"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2284.04,"endTime":2288.6,"body":"you ended up collaborating with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2284.04,"endTime":2288.6,"body":"Hans Gremmen with FW books and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2288.6,"endTime":2291.66,"body":"Light Work they both co"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2288.6,"endTime":2291.66,"body":"published a final design that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2291.66,"endTime":2294.87,"body":"Hans came up with or that you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2291.66,"endTime":2294.87,"body":"enhance came up with together."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2295.17,"endTime":2297.15,"body":"Can you talk about the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2295.17,"endTime":2297.15,"body":"differences between the two"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2297.15,"endTime":2300.3,"body":"designs and why you wanted to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2297.15,"endTime":2300.3,"body":"push the original concept"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2300.3,"endTime":2300.87,"body":"further?"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2301.83,"endTime":2305.52,"body":"Yeah, in 2017,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2301.83,"endTime":2305.52,"body":"so I was, I was pretty much done"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2305.52,"endTime":2310.08,"body":"with the project in 2017. And I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2305.52,"endTime":2310.08,"body":"went to Light Work, I applied to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2310.08,"endTime":2313.38,"body":"Light Work to come with all my"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2310.08,"endTime":2313.38,"body":"work and you know, in these like"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2313.38,"endTime":2322.5,"body":"seven hard drives and, and put a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2313.38,"endTime":2322.5,"body":"book dummy together. Um, so I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2322.5,"endTime":2325.77,"body":"actually ended up continuing the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2322.5,"endTime":2325.77,"body":"project because Parkland"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2325.77,"endTime":2329.07,"body":"happened, and that was a chapter"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2325.77,"endTime":2329.07,"body":"I really needed to include, but,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2329.25,"endTime":2332.19,"body":"but at that point, what, um, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2329.25,"endTime":2332.19,"body":"know, I was still thinking"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2332.19,"endTime":2338.34,"body":"really visually, and I made"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2332.19,"endTime":2338.34,"body":"this, I made my first my first"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2338.88,"endTime":2346.02,"body":"design was still leaning into"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2338.88,"endTime":2346.02,"body":"the media. So the way that I had"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2346.02,"endTime":2351.24,"body":"it was, it was like, all the all"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2346.02,"endTime":2351.24,"body":"the different schools were"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2351.24,"endTime":2354.9,"body":"blended together. It wasn't one"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2351.24,"endTime":2354.9,"body":"It wasn't chronological, the way"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2354.9,"endTime":2359.37,"body":"that we ended up doing it. In"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2354.9,"endTime":2359.37,"body":"Hans's version. Everything was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2359.37,"endTime":2363.36,"body":"mixed together. And it was there"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2359.37,"endTime":2363.36,"body":"were a lot of these tip-ins"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2363.39,"endTime":2366.51,"body":"there are a lot of these, these"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2363.39,"endTime":2366.51,"body":"media clips that I printed on"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2366.51,"endTime":2371.28,"body":"newsprint and and replicated,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2366.51,"endTime":2371.28,"body":"because I had collected so much,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2371.4,"endTime":2376.11,"body":"so much material from newspapers"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2371.4,"endTime":2376.11,"body":"and magazines and an online"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2376.11,"endTime":2380.73,"body":"archives. And I printed them"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2376.11,"endTime":2380.73,"body":"out. And I curated them so that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2382.56,"endTime":2386.61,"body":"I was hoping, my hope was that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2382.56,"endTime":2386.61,"body":"as you're going through the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2386.61,"endTime":2388.92,"body":"book, you know, you start out"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2386.61,"endTime":2388.92,"body":"and just starts with these quiet"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2388.92,"endTime":2392.19,"body":"landscapes. And then you start"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2388.92,"endTime":2392.19,"body":"to see these media clips come"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2392.19,"endTime":2398.13,"body":"in, and eventually they started"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2392.19,"endTime":2398.13,"body":"to pile up over each other but"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2398.13,"endTime":2402.03,"body":"that they were all from"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2398.13,"endTime":2402.03,"body":"different shooting. And, and as"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2402.03,"endTime":2406.05,"body":"he went through that, I really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2402.03,"endTime":2406.05,"body":"my hope was that the reader"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2406.05,"endTime":2409.83,"body":"would actually look closely at"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2406.05,"endTime":2409.83,"body":"the, at the media clips, because"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2410.22,"endTime":2415.62,"body":"there were different texts that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2410.22,"endTime":2415.62,"body":"I put together that were kind of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2415.68,"endTime":2419.28,"body":"who were connected. And you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2415.68,"endTime":2419.28,"body":"start to find, you know, if you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2419.28,"endTime":2424.83,"body":"do a close reading of these"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2419.28,"endTime":2424.83,"body":"clips, you start to make these"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2424.83,"endTime":2428.64,"body":"connections and find these"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2424.83,"endTime":2428.64,"body":"patterns. And, you know, it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2428.64,"endTime":2432.84,"body":"talks about a lot of the ideas"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2428.64,"endTime":2432.84,"body":"that end up, you know, about"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2432.84,"endTime":2442.38,"body":"grief, and you know, the, the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2432.84,"endTime":2442.38,"body":"repetition, and just the, the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2442.38,"endTime":2446.25,"body":"way that we collectively respond"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2442.38,"endTime":2446.25,"body":"to these, and these shootings,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2446.25,"endTime":2448.47,"body":"and there were other there are"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2446.25,"endTime":2448.47,"body":"other things at that point,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2449.04,"endTime":2453.51,"body":"other ideas floating around that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2449.04,"endTime":2453.51,"body":"I was trying to connect. And"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2453.51,"endTime":2458.73,"body":"then and then you start to see"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2453.51,"endTime":2458.73,"body":"these artifacts, come come into"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2458.73,"endTime":2461.73,"body":"the book, and eventually the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2458.73,"endTime":2461.73,"body":"artifacts overwhelm the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2461.73,"endTime":2468.36,"body":"landscape. And, and, and it just"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2461.73,"endTime":2468.36,"body":"an escalated like the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2468.39,"endTime":2471.51,"body":"exponentially, you just start"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2468.39,"endTime":2471.51,"body":"seeing more and more and more of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2471.51,"endTime":2474.42,"body":"this material that I collected"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2471.51,"endTime":2474.42,"body":"from the archives, these"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2474.42,"endTime":2477.51,"body":"photographs of you know, the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2474.42,"endTime":2477.51,"body":"different artifacts that I found"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2477.51,"endTime":2481.56,"body":"these archives. And I was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2477.51,"endTime":2481.56,"body":"actually really happy with that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2481.56,"endTime":2486.15,"body":"book, I thought it was it was a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2481.56,"endTime":2486.15,"body":"much more poetic approach than"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2486.54,"endTime":2492.48,"body":"what we ended up with. And but"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2486.54,"endTime":2492.48,"body":"the, the issue I had with it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2492.93,"endTime":2497.76,"body":"was, you know, I made this book,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2492.93,"endTime":2497.76,"body":"and I had, I had somebody"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2497.76,"endTime":2502.47,"body":"actually like hand bind a few"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2497.76,"endTime":2502.47,"body":"copies for me. And then I went"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2502.5,"endTime":2506.97,"body":"around and showed it to people."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2502.5,"endTime":2506.97,"body":"And I happen to have, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2506.97,"endTime":2510.48,"body":"most of my community at that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2506.97,"endTime":2510.48,"body":"point. And still, actually, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2510.48,"endTime":2513.66,"body":"think most of my community is in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2510.48,"endTime":2513.66,"body":"Europe, because we lived in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2513.66,"endTime":2517.5,"body":"Istanbul so long, and we have a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2513.66,"endTime":2517.5,"body":"lot of friends there. And I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2517.5,"endTime":2524.22,"body":"happen to have, I can't remember"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2517.5,"endTime":2524.22,"body":"why actually, why was I out"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2524.22,"endTime":2528.72,"body":"there, I had to go to, to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2524.22,"endTime":2528.72,"body":"Germany for some reason. And I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2528.72,"endTime":2531.33,"body":"think it's for a job. So I went"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2528.72,"endTime":2531.33,"body":"out there and I took my book"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2531.33,"endTime":2535.5,"body":"with me. And, and then I did"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2531.33,"endTime":2535.5,"body":"like a little tour and I visited"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2535.5,"endTime":2539.13,"body":"all my friends in Europe, I went"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2535.5,"endTime":2539.13,"body":"to Germany, I went to a friend"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2539.13,"endTime":2544.05,"body":"in Paris, and then I spent some"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2539.13,"endTime":2544.05,"body":"time in London to see some"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2544.05,"endTime":2546.33,"body":"friends and I bought my book,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2544.05,"endTime":2546.33,"body":"and I just showed it to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2546.33,"endTime":2549.18,"body":"everyone. And as I was going to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2546.33,"endTime":2549.18,"body":"these places, I would reach out"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2549.18,"endTime":2551.31,"body":"to them and say, Hey, I'd love"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2549.18,"endTime":2551.31,"body":"to show this to you know, is"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2551.31,"endTime":2553.95,"body":"there anyone else I could show"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2551.31,"endTime":2553.95,"body":"this to and, and I got to show"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2553.95,"endTime":2559.92,"body":"to a lot of writers, curators,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2553.95,"endTime":2559.92,"body":"photographers. And, you know, as"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2559.92,"endTime":2565.89,"body":"I was showing it to my friends,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2559.92,"endTime":2565.89,"body":"and my peers, I saw as I was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2565.89,"endTime":2570.33,"body":"watching them look through the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2565.89,"endTime":2570.33,"body":"book, they would just skip over"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2570.36,"endTime":2574.68,"body":"like they were taking it in as a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2570.36,"endTime":2574.68,"body":"photo book. And I really, the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2574.71,"endTime":2579.21,"body":"text was really important for me"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2574.71,"endTime":2579.21,"body":"for the the reader to really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2579.21,"endTime":2582.3,"body":"engage with. And then at the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2579.21,"endTime":2582.3,"body":"end, I forgot one last thing."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2583.17,"endTime":2585.75,"body":"There are all these short"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2583.17,"endTime":2585.75,"body":"vignettes, these little short"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2585.75,"endTime":2589.35,"body":"stories that I had, I had"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2585.75,"endTime":2589.35,"body":"compiled these stories within"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2589.35,"endTime":2592.02,"body":"the larger narrative that I had"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2589.35,"endTime":2592.02,"body":"found over the years, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2592.02,"endTime":2595.23,"body":"as I'm digging through these"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2592.02,"endTime":2595.23,"body":"archives, and all this research,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2595.23,"endTime":2599.37,"body":"and I compiled these vignettes"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2595.23,"endTime":2599.37,"body":"at the end. So there's a series"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2599.37,"endTime":2602.19,"body":"of short stories at the end of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2599.37,"endTime":2602.19,"body":"the book. And now those short"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2602.19,"endTime":2605.88,"body":"stories are, are integrated into"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2602.19,"endTime":2605.88,"body":"the book much more fluidly. But"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2605.88,"endTime":2608.37,"body":"at that point, my photographer"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2605.88,"endTime":2608.37,"body":"friends were just kind of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2608.37,"endTime":2611.43,"body":"looking through it and, and see"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2608.37,"endTime":2611.43,"body":"seeing it as a photo book"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2611.43,"endTime":2615.03,"body":"primarily and not as a book of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2611.43,"endTime":2615.03,"body":"photos with text. And that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2615.03,"endTime":2618.87,"body":"really bothered me and I felt"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2615.03,"endTime":2618.87,"body":"like a lot was being missed in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2618.87,"endTime":2621.99,"body":"the reading because this is you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2618.87,"endTime":2621.99,"body":"really to really get something"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2622.02,"endTime":2624.54,"body":"out of this you have to engage"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2622.02,"endTime":2624.54,"body":"with interviews, you have to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2624.54,"endTime":2629.16,"body":"engage with the media clips,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2624.54,"endTime":2629.16,"body":"with the journals with the these"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2629.16,"endTime":2632.97,"body":"like little vignettes, you have"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2629.16,"endTime":2632.97,"body":"to read the you have to read"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2632.97,"endTime":2638.31,"body":"some of the letters that are you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2632.97,"endTime":2638.31,"body":"know, in in that second part of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2638.31,"endTime":2640.59,"body":"the book and that like hidden"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2638.31,"endTime":2640.59,"body":"part of the book, you really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2640.59,"endTime":2644.4,"body":"have to engage with, with the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2640.59,"endTime":2644.4,"body":"words and and no one was really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2644.4,"endTime":2649.47,"body":"doing that. And I and I could"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2644.4,"endTime":2649.47,"body":"tell that they were left feeling"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2649.47,"endTime":2652.41,"body":"kind of gypped like oh, here you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2649.47,"endTime":2652.41,"body":"did this massive project about"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2652.65,"endTime":2655.65,"body":"school shootings. But what's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2652.65,"endTime":2655.65,"body":"what's going on? Like, what's it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2655.65,"endTime":2656.7,"body":"about? Like, I don't get it."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2657.14,"endTime":2660.32,"body":"Right. So even"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2657.14,"endTime":2660.32,"body":"though like you personally were"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2660.32,"endTime":2663.65,"body":"proud of what you'd put together"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2660.32,"endTime":2663.65,"body":"and that it was, you know, very"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2663.65,"endTime":2669.05,"body":"lyrical, it wasn't achieving"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2663.65,"endTime":2669.05,"body":"what you wanted it to for the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2669.05,"endTime":2669.71,"body":"viewer."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2669.7,"endTime":2672.176,"body":"It wasn't"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2669.7,"endTime":2672.176,"body":"communicating. But you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2672.241,"endTime":2676.217,"body":"what I found was interesting was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2672.241,"endTime":2676.217,"body":"when I would sit down with a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2676.282,"endTime":2679.932,"body":"writer and to show them the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2676.282,"endTime":2679.932,"body":"book, they they or a curator"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2679.997,"endTime":2683.908,"body":"they spent much more time trying"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2679.997,"endTime":2683.908,"body":"to understand okay, why are"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2683.973,"endTime":2687.884,"body":"these media clips together?"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2683.973,"endTime":2687.884,"body":"What's in these texts? And maybe"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2687.949,"endTime":2691.794,"body":"that you know, because we were"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2687.949,"endTime":2691.794,"body":"sitting there together, they"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2691.86,"endTime":2695.77,"body":"weren't reading them in depth."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2691.86,"endTime":2695.77,"body":"They were definitely scanning"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2695.835,"endTime":2699.811,"body":"them and reading a lot more than"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2695.835,"endTime":2699.811,"body":"my photographer friends. And"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2699.876,"endTime":2703.591,"body":"that's when I realized okay,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2699.876,"endTime":2703.591,"body":"this needs a total redesign."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2703.657,"endTime":2707.763,"body":"This needs to have the texts be"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2703.657,"endTime":2707.763,"body":"much more integrated or even be"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2707.828,"endTime":2711.869,"body":"the primary reading of, of the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2707.828,"endTime":2711.869,"body":"book. And eventually, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2711.934,"endTime":2715.975,"body":"with Hans, we ended up finding a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2711.934,"endTime":2715.975,"body":"happy medium, where where the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2716.04,"endTime":2720.211,"body":"text and the imagery are kind of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2716.04,"endTime":2720.211,"body":"hand in hand taking equal part,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2720.277,"endTime":2724.252,"body":"importance, but it took us a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2720.277,"endTime":2724.252,"body":"little bit to get there and, but"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2724.318,"endTime":2727.772,"body":"I knew that the texts and the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2724.318,"endTime":2727.772,"body":"interviews needed to be"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2727.837,"endTime":2731.552,"body":"presented in a way that the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2727.837,"endTime":2731.552,"body":"reader would engage with them"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2731.617,"endTime":2735.137,"body":"and I knew it was going to be"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2731.617,"endTime":2735.137,"body":"difficult is going to be"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2735.202,"endTime":2739.243,"body":"difficult sell and I don't mean"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2735.202,"endTime":2739.243,"body":"sell as in like, people aren't"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2739.308,"endTime":2743.545,"body":"gonna buy the book. I mean, like"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2739.308,"endTime":2743.545,"body":"it's gonna, it was gonna be in a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2743.61,"endTime":2747.455,"body":"difficult, it was gonna be a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2743.61,"endTime":2747.455,"body":"challenging book. Because it's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2747.52,"endTime":2751.366,"body":"gonna be released as a photo"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2747.52,"endTime":2751.366,"body":"book, because primarily, I'm a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2751.431,"endTime":2755.342,"body":"photographer. I tried to get"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2751.431,"endTime":2755.342,"body":"some, like academic presses and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2755.407,"endTime":2758.861,"body":"some other types of book"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2755.407,"endTime":2758.861,"body":"publishers interested in the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2758.926,"endTime":2762.772,"body":"work because I thought, wow,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2758.926,"endTime":2762.772,"body":"what if, like, you know, I get"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2762.837,"endTime":2766.682,"body":"like a, I don't know, some,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2762.837,"endTime":2766.682,"body":"like, text publisher to publish"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2766.748,"endTime":2770.984,"body":"a photo book. I thought maybe it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2766.748,"endTime":2770.984,"body":"could get an audience of readers"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2771.049,"endTime":2774.96,"body":"that, you know, that would look"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2771.049,"endTime":2774.96,"body":"at the text primarily, but I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2775.025,"endTime":2778.87,"body":"wasn't able to do that. It's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2775.025,"endTime":2778.87,"body":"just too too many photographs."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2778.936,"endTime":2782.781,"body":"But um, but yeah, then I you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2778.936,"endTime":2782.781,"body":"know, then I remembered when I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2782.846,"endTime":2786.626,"body":"when I realized I needed to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2782.846,"endTime":2786.626,"body":"redesign. I remembered Hans. I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2786.692,"endTime":2790.341,"body":"had met Hans years ago, like"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2786.692,"endTime":2790.341,"body":"years before in Germany and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2790.407,"endTime":2794.382,"body":"really loved his imprint. And I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2790.407,"endTime":2794.382,"body":"think he does a, he's a great"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2794.448,"endTime":2796.99,"body":"designer, when text is involved,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2794.448,"endTime":2796.99,"body":"and..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2797.41,"endTime":2802.15,"body":"He is..., I just"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2797.41,"endTime":2802.15,"body":"need to do a Hans gushing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2802.18,"endTime":2805.72,"body":"moment, I interviewed him for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2802.18,"endTime":2805.72,"body":"the podcast, and we talked about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2805.72,"endTime":2813.34,"body":"your book a bit. And I am now co"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2805.72,"endTime":2813.34,"body":"publishing a second project with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2813.34,"endTime":2817.6,"body":"him. And he is a genius."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2817.6,"endTime":2818.89,"body":"Oh, I love him,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2817.6,"endTime":2818.89,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2819.67,"endTime":2822.31,"body":"I think Doug"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2819.67,"endTime":2822.31,"body":"Dubois first introduced me to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2822.31,"endTime":2828.16,"body":"him, because he did My Last Day"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2822.31,"endTime":2828.16,"body":"at 17. And, and just seeing that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2828.16,"endTime":2832.24,"body":"book, and there were a couple of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2828.16,"endTime":2832.24,"body":"other ones. And it just, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2832.24,"endTime":2837.64,"body":"always say like, he's just next"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2832.24,"endTime":2837.64,"body":"level. And then there's next"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2837.64,"endTime":2842.47,"body":"next level. It's like, if I had"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2837.64,"endTime":2842.47,"body":"my entire life to design a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2842.47,"endTime":2846.49,"body":"wedding dress, like it would be"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2842.47,"endTime":2846.49,"body":"white, but it wouldn't look like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2846.49,"endTime":2850.45,"body":"a Vera Wang, you know, like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2846.49,"endTime":2850.45,"body":"just the level of you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2850.45,"endTime":2855.4,"body":"detail and thoughtfulness, it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2850.45,"endTime":2855.4,"body":"just so he is..."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2856.87,"endTime":2857.83,"body":"Yeah, he is"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2856.87,"endTime":2857.83,"body":"brilliant."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2857.0,"endTime":2863.0,"body":"He is brilliant!"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2857.0,"endTime":2863.0,"body":"And your book is just like, the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2863.0,"endTime":2868.37,"body":"shining example of like, where,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2863.0,"endTime":2868.37,"body":"like, if I could just access"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2868.4,"endTime":2874.07,"body":"1/10th of his brain, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2868.4,"endTime":2874.07,"body":"would be.... (laughs) It's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2874.1,"endTime":2877.07,"body":"unbelievable, just that unlock"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2874.1,"endTime":2877.07,"body":"that he can do?"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2877.99,"endTime":2881.59,"body":"Absolutely. And"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2877.99,"endTime":2881.59,"body":"I mean, I've I felt, I when I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2881.59,"endTime":2885.49,"body":"sent him the work, actually, I'd"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2881.59,"endTime":2885.49,"body":"sent him the work a little bit"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2885.49,"endTime":2889.27,"body":"earlier, because I just wanted"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2885.49,"endTime":2889.27,"body":"his opinion about it. And I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2889.27,"endTime":2891.64,"body":"never thought he would be"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2889.27,"endTime":2891.64,"body":"interested in publishing it. But"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2891.97,"endTime":2896.02,"body":"we had had, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2891.97,"endTime":2896.02,"body":"correspondence on other stuff in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2896.02,"endTime":2898.0,"body":"the past and I was like, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2896.02,"endTime":2898.0,"body":"wonder what Hans would think"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2898.0,"endTime":2900.97,"body":"about this idea. At that point,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2898.0,"endTime":2900.97,"body":"I was struggling with one"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2900.97,"endTime":2907.39,"body":"particular idea. Not in the book"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2900.97,"endTime":2907.39,"body":"design, but early on, when I was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2907.39,"endTime":2911.17,"body":"thinking about, you know, this"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2907.39,"endTime":2911.17,"body":"one hurdle, that I was toying"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2911.2,"endTime":2913.6,"body":"with on the project. And I was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2911.2,"endTime":2913.6,"body":"Oh I wonder what Hans would"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2913.6,"endTime":2915.61,"body":"think. And he, of course, he"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2913.6,"endTime":2915.61,"body":"gave like, you know, really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2915.7,"endTime":2920.74,"body":"brilliant feedback. But, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2915.7,"endTime":2920.74,"body":"remember, you know, when I, when"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2920.74,"endTime":2923.53,"body":"I realized I needed to redesign,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2920.74,"endTime":2923.53,"body":"I reached out to him, I was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2923.53,"endTime":2930.13,"body":"like, Hey, I've got this messy,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2923.53,"endTime":2930.13,"body":"messy project. Here's here, I'm"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2930.13,"endTime":2932.98,"body":"gonna send you a bunch of like,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2930.13,"endTime":2932.98,"body":"I sent him a PDF. He's like,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2932.98,"endTime":2935.53,"body":"Sure, it's send me some"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2932.98,"endTime":2935.53,"body":"material, let me see. I just"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2935.53,"endTime":2937.96,"body":"sent him these folders, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2935.53,"endTime":2937.96,"body":"know, I tried to organize them"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2937.96,"endTime":2945.91,"body":"as I could. But I had collected"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2937.96,"endTime":2945.91,"body":"so much material. And the great"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2945.91,"endTime":2952.0,"body":"thing about about it was that he"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2945.91,"endTime":2952.0,"body":"came back and he's, he's excited"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2952.0,"endTime":2955.57,"body":"to work with me on it. But I can"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2952.0,"endTime":2955.57,"body":"tell that he had really studied"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2955.57,"endTime":2959.83,"body":"what I compiled, like he had, it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2955.57,"endTime":2959.83,"body":"wasn't just like, you know, he"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2959.83,"endTime":2962.53,"body":"looked at some pictures and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2959.83,"endTime":2962.53,"body":"thought, oh, this might be fun,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2962.53,"endTime":2965.41,"body":"or this might be interesting to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2962.53,"endTime":2965.41,"body":"work on. He came back and I know"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2965.41,"endTime":2968.38,"body":"he had read the interviews. I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2965.41,"endTime":2968.38,"body":"know he read some of the letters"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2968.38,"endTime":2971.59,"body":"and like the all these little"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2968.38,"endTime":2971.59,"body":"short stories like he really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2971.59,"endTime":2975.85,"body":"spent time reading and I think"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2971.59,"endTime":2975.85,"body":"you know, sometimes I kind of he"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2975.85,"endTime":2978.76,"body":"is kind of like the scholar of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2975.85,"endTime":2978.76,"body":"the all the you know, those"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2978.76,"endTime":2985.18,"body":"Dutch designers in a way, but"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2978.76,"endTime":2985.18,"body":"yeah, then, you know, he came"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2985.18,"endTime":2988.54,"body":"back and he's like, I'm I'm busy"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2985.18,"endTime":2988.54,"body":"right now, but I I want to work"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2988.54,"endTime":2991.69,"body":"with you on this and he"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2988.54,"endTime":2991.69,"body":"disappeared for a little while."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2992.2,"endTime":2994.54,"body":"And then finally is like okay, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2992.2,"endTime":2994.54,"body":"have some time like a few months"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2994.54,"endTime":2998.26,"body":"laters like I have some time to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2994.54,"endTime":2998.26,"body":"work on this. I'm gonna give it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2998.26,"endTime":3000.6,"body":"a thought and then again, then"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":2998.26,"endTime":3000.6,"body":"he like disappeared. For like,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3000.72,"endTime":3003.6,"body":"almost six weeks, I was like,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3000.72,"endTime":3003.6,"body":"what's going on?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3003.0,"endTime":3007.53,"body":"He has like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3003.0,"endTime":3007.53,"body":"fallen into a hole. (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3007.57,"endTime":3010.78,"body":"And then"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3007.57,"endTime":3010.78,"body":"suddenly, he's, he sent me like"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3010.81,"endTime":3016.51,"body":"this video. And He's, um, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3010.81,"endTime":3016.51,"body":"know, he sent me this video of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3016.51,"endTime":3020.44,"body":"like this little dummy that he"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3016.51,"endTime":3020.44,"body":"had created. That was just a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3020.44,"endTime":3024.22,"body":"blank, it was just a blank book."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3020.44,"endTime":3024.22,"body":"There was no pictures in it, it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3024.22,"endTime":3028.6,"body":"was just like, just the just the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3024.22,"endTime":3028.6,"body":"binding, he sent me a picture or"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3028.6,"endTime":3029.8,"body":"a video of just the binding."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3032.04,"endTime":3033.66,"body":"And then did"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3032.04,"endTime":3033.66,"body":"your brain explode?"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3033.72,"endTime":3036.06,"body":"Yeah. Oh, and I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3033.72,"endTime":3036.06,"body":"was like, oh my god, this is"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3036.06,"endTime":3039.57,"body":"brilliant. It's perfect. It's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3036.06,"endTime":3039.57,"body":"like, you know, and in that same"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3039.57,"endTime":3043.98,"body":"video, like, I think he recorded"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3039.57,"endTime":3043.98,"body":"it much later. But, um, but he"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3043.98,"endTime":3047.85,"body":"put two videos together. And in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3043.98,"endTime":3047.85,"body":"that same video, he showed me"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3047.85,"endTime":3051.81,"body":"like, here's like, a really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3047.85,"endTime":3051.81,"body":"rough, you know, with some"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3051.81,"endTime":3055.86,"body":"pictures and like, the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3051.81,"endTime":3055.86,"body":"interviews, but it was just such"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3055.86,"endTime":3061.92,"body":"a brilliant, just such a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3055.86,"endTime":3061.92,"body":"brilliant fix to this problem"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3061.92,"endTime":3066.66,"body":"that the material had. And, and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3061.92,"endTime":3066.66,"body":"just wrapped around, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3066.66,"endTime":3070.65,"body":"mean, everything about it was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3066.66,"endTime":3070.65,"body":"the way it feels like this pile"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3070.65,"endTime":3072.99,"body":"of papers, it feels like a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3070.65,"endTime":3072.99,"body":"forensic..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3074.13,"endTime":3075.6,"body":"Yeah, like a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3074.13,"endTime":3075.6,"body":"folder."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3075.66,"endTime":3079.47,"body":"Yeah and you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3075.66,"endTime":3079.47,"body":"know, I love that the the two"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3079.5,"endTime":3083.28,"body":"tiers of, you know, these really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3079.5,"endTime":3083.28,"body":"quiet landscapes and as you're"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3083.28,"endTime":3087.72,"body":"going through it, you know, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3083.28,"endTime":3087.72,"body":"have to, you have to choose to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3087.72,"endTime":3090.96,"body":"like open the book, you can"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3087.72,"endTime":3090.96,"body":"easily just breeze through it,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3090.99,"endTime":3095.1,"body":"and not open it and not choose"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3090.99,"endTime":3095.1,"body":"to engage with the trauma and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3095.67,"endTime":3100.83,"body":"way the language that, that the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3095.67,"endTime":3100.83,"body":"landscapes almost become"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3100.83,"endTime":3105.72,"body":"radioactive in a way as you're"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3100.83,"endTime":3105.72,"body":"going through it. And it just,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3105.75,"endTime":3109.5,"body":"it all just fell, fell together"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3105.75,"endTime":3109.5,"body":"so brilliantly. I was, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3109.5,"endTime":3112.38,"body":"I was really excited about it."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3109.5,"endTime":3112.38,"body":"And then we went back and start"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3112.38,"endTime":3116.25,"body":"editing and deciding, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3112.38,"endTime":3116.25,"body":"we decided to, like, make it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3116.55,"endTime":3121.38,"body":"chronological. And then we went"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3116.55,"endTime":3121.38,"body":"through and edited the images"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3121.38,"endTime":3127.62,"body":"and, and the structure of where"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3121.38,"endTime":3127.62,"body":"the vignettes would go, and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3127.65,"endTime":3132.42,"body":"which vignettes to use. Because"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3127.65,"endTime":3132.42,"body":"I collected so much, I'd"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3132.42,"endTime":3135.66,"body":"photographed so many artifacts,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3132.42,"endTime":3135.66,"body":"so much of the memorabilia we"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3135.84,"endTime":3138.09,"body":"went through and decided which"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3135.84,"endTime":3138.09,"body":"ones we should include and which"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3138.09,"endTime":3139.2,"body":"was more important."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3140.79,"endTime":3142.89,"body":"Yeah, he's great"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3140.79,"endTime":3142.89,"body":"with working with a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3142.89,"endTime":3146.88,"body":"volume, I feel like because my"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3142.89,"endTime":3146.88,"body":"impulse is always to like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3146.88,"endTime":3150.63,"body":"we've got to trim this down, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3146.88,"endTime":3150.63,"body":"know, significantly and then"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3150.87,"endTime":3156.0,"body":"even in the project, I'm working"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3150.87,"endTime":3156.0,"body":"with him right now called This"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3156.0,"endTime":3162.99,"body":"Is Bliss and he/we as similarly"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3156.0,"endTime":3162.99,"body":"the artist John Horvath has"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3163.02,"endTime":3170.55,"body":"collected just so many different"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3163.02,"endTime":3170.55,"body":"ways to represent his work, this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3170.55,"endTime":3178.14,"body":"project and Hans just went big."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3170.55,"endTime":3178.14,"body":"Like it is a thick, thick, book."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3178.14,"endTime":3182.94,"body":"But like it came back similar"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3178.14,"endTime":3182.94,"body":"like he, you know, went away for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3182.97,"endTime":3188.34,"body":"a couple months and then came"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3182.97,"endTime":3188.34,"body":"back with this insane mock up"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3188.55,"endTime":3192.9,"body":"that again, just like wow, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3188.55,"endTime":3192.9,"body":"wouldn't have gotten there. You"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3192.9,"endTime":3194.07,"body":"know, so Right."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3194.78,"endTime":3197.72,"body":"Yeah, I love I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3194.78,"endTime":3197.72,"body":"love how he does he doesn't shy"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3197.72,"endTime":3201.86,"body":"away from big you know, from"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3197.72,"endTime":3201.86,"body":"including a lot. The book that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3201.86,"endTime":3204.98,"body":"really moved me when I was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3201.86,"endTime":3204.98,"body":"thinking about this was, um,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3205.1,"endTime":3207.56,"body":"when I was thinking about"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3205.1,"endTime":3207.56,"body":"working with him was Edges of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3207.56,"endTime":3210.65,"body":"the Experiment where it's like"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3207.56,"endTime":3210.65,"body":"this double book, and it's just"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3210.68,"endTime":3216.89,"body":"filled with material, with all"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3210.68,"endTime":3216.89,"body":"this text. It's so heavy. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3216.89,"endTime":3218.09,"body":"I was like, Okay, I gotta, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3216.89,"endTime":3218.09,"body":"gotta..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3219.65,"endTime":3221.57,"body":"This guy can"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3219.65,"endTime":3221.57,"body":"handle it. (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3221.36,"endTime":3222.95,"body":"Do some voodoo"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3221.36,"endTime":3222.95,"body":"on this guy, so he works with"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3222.95,"endTime":3223.01,"body":"me."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3223.71,"endTime":3228.96,"body":"Right, right."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3223.71,"endTime":3228.96,"body":"Switching gears a little bit, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3229.05,"endTime":3232.65,"body":"was I wanted to talk about, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3229.05,"endTime":3232.65,"body":"know, you talked about Carolyn,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3233.04,"endTime":3237.03,"body":"and what it's like having"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3233.04,"endTime":3237.03,"body":"another photographer as a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3237.03,"endTime":3241.14,"body":"partner, like, how do you feel"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3237.03,"endTime":3241.14,"body":"having that in house"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3241.14,"endTime":3245.58,"body":"collaborator in a way and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3241.14,"endTime":3245.58,"body":"thought partner has impacted"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3245.58,"endTime":3246.21,"body":"your work?"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3248.07,"endTime":3254.25,"body":"Um, sometimes I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3248.07,"endTime":3254.25,"body":"feel like we're one brain. It's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3254.25,"endTime":3263.1,"body":"hard to like, know, where my, my"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3254.25,"endTime":3263.1,"body":"thoughts end or start and hers"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3263.13,"endTime":3263.97,"body":"end and start."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3264.93,"endTime":3267.66,"body":"It's like Calvin"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3264.93,"endTime":3267.66,"body":"Klein commercial. Remember?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3267.66,"endTime":3272.97,"body":"Like, I don't know where I began"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3267.66,"endTime":3272.97,"body":"and you end. Eternity Eternity."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3273.0,"endTime":3273.3,"body":"(laughs)"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3274.14,"endTime":3277.41,"body":"Yeah. Right. I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3274.14,"endTime":3277.41,"body":"mean, it is a bit of a cliche,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3277.41,"endTime":3281.13,"body":"but it really does feel that way"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3277.41,"endTime":3281.13,"body":"sometimes. And we've been"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3281.13,"endTime":3287.58,"body":"together for like, 20 years. So,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3281.13,"endTime":3287.58,"body":"you know, we we've been through"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3287.58,"endTime":3292.8,"body":"a lot, moved a lot of places,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3287.58,"endTime":3292.8,"body":"lived a lot of places and worked"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3292.8,"endTime":3296.4,"body":"on a lot of projects together"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3292.8,"endTime":3296.4,"body":"and a part and I mean, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3296.49,"endTime":3301.68,"body":"it's, I know that like her, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3296.49,"endTime":3301.68,"body":"know, Carolyn's got her bylines,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3301.68,"endTime":3307.17,"body":"like, and I've got my bylines,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3301.68,"endTime":3307.17,"body":"but really, it's our"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3307.17,"endTime":3309.63,"body":"relationship, our working"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3307.17,"endTime":3309.63,"body":"relationship is just one big"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3309.63,"endTime":3313.77,"body":"collaboration, we're constantly"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3309.63,"endTime":3313.77,"body":"asking each other to look over"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3313.77,"endTime":3321.63,"body":"work and, you know, giving each"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3313.77,"endTime":3321.63,"body":"other ideas and knocking down"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3321.63,"endTime":3324.87,"body":"ideas and telling us when we're"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3321.63,"endTime":3324.87,"body":"full of shit, and you know, when"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3324.87,"endTime":3330.09,"body":"we've got a brilliant, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3324.87,"endTime":3330.09,"body":"start on something, and it's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3330.09,"endTime":3340.56,"body":"just, it's, it's very fluid. I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3330.09,"endTime":3340.56,"body":"mean, I don't, I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3340.56,"endTime":3342.63,"body":"really hard to answer because"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3340.56,"endTime":3342.63,"body":"it's like, it's like,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3342.63,"endTime":3350.22,"body":"everything, like, it's all so"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3342.63,"endTime":3350.22,"body":"organic, and, and messy, and,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3351.54,"endTime":3356.25,"body":"you know, we fight a lot about"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3351.54,"endTime":3356.25,"body":"our work. And, you know, Carolyn"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3356.25,"endTime":3360.3,"body":"gives me a lot of feedback. And"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3356.25,"endTime":3360.3,"body":"my, always my default is like,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3360.78,"endTime":3362.61,"body":"you have no idea what you're"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3360.78,"endTime":3362.61,"body":"talking about, you do not"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3362.61,"endTime":3367.47,"body":"understand at all, you know, go"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3362.61,"endTime":3367.47,"body":"away. And then an hour later,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3367.47,"endTime":3372.06,"body":"like the next step, I'm like"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3367.47,"endTime":3372.06,"body":"Ahhh shit, she's totally right."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3373.23,"endTime":3374.31,"body":"She's like, I'll"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3373.23,"endTime":3374.31,"body":"wait."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3375.11,"endTime":3380.24,"body":"So, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3375.11,"endTime":3380.24,"body":"um, yeah, it's, it's great. I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3380.24,"endTime":3385.64,"body":"mean, I think, I think the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3380.24,"endTime":3385.64,"body":"challenge is not the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3385.64,"endTime":3389.21,"body":"collaboration, but like, Okay,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3385.64,"endTime":3389.21,"body":"how, like, how do we establish"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3389.21,"endTime":3395.51,"body":"our own identities? And we do, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3389.21,"endTime":3395.51,"body":"mean, I think, ultimately do but"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3397.22,"endTime":3401.66,"body":"there's always, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3397.22,"endTime":3401.66,"body":"sometimes, like, we see each"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3401.66,"endTime":3403.67,"body":"other doing something, we're"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3401.66,"endTime":3403.67,"body":"like, oh, I want to try that."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3403.7,"endTime":3406.28,"body":"And it's, there's like, you, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3403.7,"endTime":3406.28,"body":"got to kind of resist, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3406.28,"endTime":3410.78,"body":"gotta, you know, let the other"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3406.28,"endTime":3410.78,"body":"person has space. And, and to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3410.78,"endTime":3417.17,"body":"keep, you know, have their own"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3410.78,"endTime":3417.17,"body":"identity creatively. But, but,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3417.2,"endTime":3421.55,"body":"you know, ultimately, it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3417.2,"endTime":3421.55,"body":"been like, it's been really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3421.55,"endTime":3426.65,"body":"great to have someone to turn"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3421.55,"endTime":3426.65,"body":"to. The downside might be that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3426.83,"endTime":3434.63,"body":"we are obsessive about work, and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3426.83,"endTime":3434.63,"body":"we don't really have, it's hard"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3434.63,"endTime":3438.44,"body":"to find, it's hard to remember"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3434.63,"endTime":3438.44,"body":"to have a life outside of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3438.44,"endTime":3438.77,"body":"work..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3438.77,"endTime":3440.96,"body":"Because you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3438.77,"endTime":3440.96,"body":"don't have other hobbies. Right?"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3441.08,"endTime":3442.76,"body":"Yeah. Because"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3441.08,"endTime":3442.76,"body":"we don't have a partner that's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3442.76,"endTime":3444.74,"body":"like, you know, involved in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3442.76,"endTime":3444.74,"body":"other things and can kind of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3444.74,"endTime":3450.65,"body":"pull us away. We become so"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3444.74,"endTime":3450.65,"body":"immersed in, in project Life and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3450.68,"endTime":3454.07,"body":"work life that it's hard to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3450.68,"endTime":3454.07,"body":"detach, and remember to, like,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3454.31,"endTime":3458.33,"body":"you know, escape into the woods"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3454.31,"endTime":3458.33,"body":"once in a while and find our"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3458.33,"endTime":3462.23,"body":"humanity in, you know, different"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3458.33,"endTime":3462.23,"body":"places and different landscapes,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3462.38,"endTime":3465.92,"body":"and different intellectual"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3462.38,"endTime":3465.92,"body":"landscapes. So, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3465.92,"endTime":3468.62,"body":"other thing is, we have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3465.92,"endTime":3468.62,"body":"photographer friends, so we're"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3468.89,"endTime":3472.91,"body":"trying to diversify so that we"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3468.89,"endTime":3472.91,"body":"have friends that are like"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3472.91,"endTime":3474.74,"body":"bringing us into their"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3472.91,"endTime":3474.74,"body":"communities."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3480.35,"endTime":3485.12,"body":"That makes"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3480.35,"endTime":3485.12,"body":"sense. And so I always asked"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3485.12,"endTime":3490.46,"body":"these questions at the end. So I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3485.12,"endTime":3490.46,"body":"wanted to put them to you. What"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3490.46,"endTime":3494.87,"body":"has been the best career"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3490.46,"endTime":3494.87,"body":"decision you've made so far?"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3496.43,"endTime":3501.98,"body":"Um, my best"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3496.43,"endTime":3501.98,"body":"career decision was going abroad"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3501.98,"endTime":3513.53,"body":"on a Fulbright in 2007. That's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3501.98,"endTime":3513.53,"body":"probably my, that was probably"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3513.53,"endTime":3518.57,"body":"the most pivotal moment of my"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3513.53,"endTime":3518.57,"body":"career. Because before that, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3518.57,"endTime":3522.8,"body":"was working in newspapers, and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3518.57,"endTime":3522.8,"body":"I, you know, I knew I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3522.83,"endTime":3526.94,"body":"break out of that I didn't know"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3522.83,"endTime":3526.94,"body":"how. I had, you know, I went to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3526.94,"endTime":3530.0,"body":"grad school in photojournalism,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3526.94,"endTime":3530.0,"body":"I'd come from a very"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3530.21,"endTime":3532.58,"body":"journalistic background, and I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3530.21,"endTime":3532.58,"body":"still consider myself a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3532.58,"endTime":3538.64,"body":"journalist to some, to some"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3532.58,"endTime":3538.64,"body":"extent. I think I break from"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3539.54,"endTime":3544.91,"body":"ethics, so maybe a little bit by"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3539.54,"endTime":3544.91,"body":"reinterpreting the material that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3544.91,"endTime":3552.14,"body":"I researched, or that I'm kind"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3544.91,"endTime":3552.14,"body":"of compiling as I work but I do"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3552.14,"endTime":3557.21,"body":"have roots in journalism and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3552.14,"endTime":3557.21,"body":"documentary photography. But"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3557.21,"endTime":3560.48,"body":"when I was working at these"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3557.21,"endTime":3560.48,"body":"newspapers, as I was working in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3560.48,"endTime":3565.76,"body":"newspapers for a couple years in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3560.48,"endTime":3565.76,"body":"Florida, and I just felt that it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3565.76,"endTime":3570.92,"body":"was limiting, it was just too"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3565.76,"endTime":3570.92,"body":"narrow. Creatively, I felt"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3570.92,"endTime":3579.05,"body":"limited. And I also felt that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3570.92,"endTime":3579.05,"body":"there wasn't enough room for"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3580.22,"endTime":3584.48,"body":"complexity, as a visual"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3580.22,"endTime":3584.48,"body":"storyteller, there's not really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3584.48,"endTime":3588.35,"body":"enough room to really complicate"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3584.48,"endTime":3588.35,"body":"things and to leave open endings"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3588.35,"endTime":3594.32,"body":"and everything felt the need to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3588.35,"endTime":3594.32,"body":"be nice and tidy, too nice and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3594.32,"endTime":3597.71,"body":"tidy. And so I tried to find you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3594.32,"endTime":3597.71,"body":"know, as as I was working these"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3597.71,"endTime":3601.13,"body":"newspapers, I was also making"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3597.71,"endTime":3601.13,"body":"work on the side, I bought a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3601.34,"endTime":3604.52,"body":"medium format camera so that I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3601.34,"endTime":3604.52,"body":"could really separate myself"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3604.52,"endTime":3613.61,"body":"from my, you know, from my day"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3604.52,"endTime":3613.61,"body":"job. But Carolyn, first, she"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3613.61,"endTime":3617.36,"body":"applied for a Fulbright in 2005."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3613.61,"endTime":3617.36,"body":"And that was just supposed to be"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3617.36,"endTime":3619.55,"body":"a year long thing, then we're"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3617.36,"endTime":3619.55,"body":"gonna come back and you know, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3619.55,"endTime":3623.36,"body":"was, didn't think it was going"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3619.55,"endTime":3623.36,"body":"to be like this huge life shift."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3624.05,"endTime":3629.6,"body":"But when she went abroad, I went"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3624.05,"endTime":3629.6,"body":"with her. And maybe that was a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3629.6,"endTime":3632.3,"body":"decision and actually made the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3629.6,"endTime":3632.3,"body":"decision to go with Carolyn to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3632.3,"endTime":3634.19,"body":"Ukraine, because there was a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3632.3,"endTime":3634.19,"body":"moment where I thought I was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3634.19,"endTime":3637.67,"body":"gonna stay back, I had a job, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3634.19,"endTime":3637.67,"body":"can, you know, come and visit"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3637.67,"endTime":3641.24,"body":"and just be a year, we will, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3637.67,"endTime":3641.24,"body":"know, do long distance. But I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3641.24,"endTime":3645.02,"body":"decided to go with her. And, and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3641.24,"endTime":3645.02,"body":"while I was there, I also"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3645.02,"endTime":3648.23,"body":"applied for my own Fulbright in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3645.02,"endTime":3648.23,"body":"Istanbul, because we decided we"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3648.23,"endTime":3654.38,"body":"wanted to stay abroad and figure"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3648.23,"endTime":3654.38,"body":"stuff out. And we were enjoying"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3654.38,"endTime":3658.94,"body":"our time experiencing like this"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3654.38,"endTime":3658.94,"body":"other culture and, and I think"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3658.94,"endTime":3665.87,"body":"is like, leaving the US and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3658.94,"endTime":3665.87,"body":"moving to this city that was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3665.87,"endTime":3670.79,"body":"filled with artists and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3665.87,"endTime":3670.79,"body":"journalists and writers from all"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3670.79,"endTime":3677.42,"body":"over Europe, that really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3670.79,"endTime":3677.42,"body":"expanded my idea of what art can"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3677.42,"endTime":3682.82,"body":"be, what photography can be,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3677.42,"endTime":3682.82,"body":"what storytelling can be. There"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3682.82,"endTime":3687.47,"body":"was I had a lot of issues living"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3682.82,"endTime":3687.47,"body":"abroad, and making work abroad."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3688.85,"endTime":3695.15,"body":"Because, you know, if my, if my"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3688.85,"endTime":3695.15,"body":"roots were in journalism, the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3695.15,"endTime":3698.57,"body":"ability to actually talk to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3695.15,"endTime":3698.57,"body":"people, which was so integral to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3698.57,"endTime":3703.1,"body":"my process, before leaving the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3698.57,"endTime":3703.1,"body":"US, that was completely gone."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3703.1,"endTime":3705.32,"body":"Because there was cultural"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3703.1,"endTime":3705.32,"body":"barriers, there was a language"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3705.32,"endTime":3708.35,"body":"barrier. And I really struggled"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3705.32,"endTime":3708.35,"body":"with that. And Carolyn struggled"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3708.35,"endTime":3711.5,"body":"with it too. We, we ended up"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3708.35,"endTime":3711.5,"body":"dealing with in very different"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3711.5,"endTime":3716.75,"body":"ways. Carolyn, leaned into"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3711.5,"endTime":3716.75,"body":"collaboration with her work. And"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3716.75,"endTime":3720.47,"body":"I actually, my work, I ended up"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3716.75,"endTime":3720.47,"body":"drifting further and further"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3720.47,"endTime":3723.92,"body":"away from, from people in my"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3720.47,"endTime":3723.92,"body":"images. And in the first project"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3723.92,"endTime":3729.41,"body":"I, I made that turned into a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3723.92,"endTime":3729.41,"body":"book is actually very, it's very"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3729.41,"endTime":3733.97,"body":"devoid of people, it's mostly"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3729.41,"endTime":3733.97,"body":"landscape and small still life"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3734.06,"endTime":3737.33,"body":"images, because I just never was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3734.06,"endTime":3737.33,"body":"able to reconcile that thing"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3737.33,"endTime":3742.79,"body":"that I really needed or"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3737.33,"endTime":3742.79,"body":"reconcile the fact that I really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3742.79,"endTime":3748.7,"body":"needed connection with people,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3742.79,"endTime":3748.7,"body":"and I wasn't really getting it."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3749.21,"endTime":3750.38,"body":"And I learned Turkish."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3751.43,"endTime":3752.15,"body":"What?!?"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3752.78,"endTime":3753.41,"body":"Yeah, when I..."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3753.492,"endTime":3756.816,"body":"With the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3753.492,"endTime":3756.816,"body":"Fulbright, you know, you immerse"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3753.71,"endTime":3754.7,"body":"That sounds"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3753.71,"endTime":3754.7,"body":"hard."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3756.897,"endTime":3762.086,"body":"yourself in the language. And so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3756.897,"endTime":3762.086,"body":"I learned Turkish, and was able"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3759.49,"endTime":3828.58,"body":"I can imagine. Can you talk"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3759.49,"endTime":3828.58,"body":"about a wrong turn you made? Or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3762.167,"endTime":3766.627,"body":"to communicate, for the most"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3762.167,"endTime":3766.627,"body":"part, but was still really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3766.708,"endTime":3771.735,"body":"basic, I wasn't really able to,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3766.708,"endTime":3771.735,"body":"like, you know, understand the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3771.816,"endTime":3776.843,"body":"nuances in the conversations I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3771.816,"endTime":3776.843,"body":"was having. And so, I struggled"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3776.924,"endTime":3781.951,"body":"with that, um, but being abroad,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3776.924,"endTime":3781.951,"body":"and really, you know, meeting"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3782.032,"endTime":3787.221,"body":"all these different artists from"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3782.032,"endTime":3787.221,"body":"all these different backgrounds"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3787.302,"endTime":3792.329,"body":"and realizing that there's this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3787.302,"endTime":3792.329,"body":"whole other world out there of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3792.411,"endTime":3796.627,"body":"international thinking around"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3792.411,"endTime":3796.627,"body":"art and creativity and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3796.708,"endTime":3801.492,"body":"storytelling, I started to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3796.708,"endTime":3801.492,"body":"realize that, you know, American"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3801.573,"endTime":3806.194,"body":"storytelling felt a little"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3801.573,"endTime":3806.194,"body":"narrow, I felt like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3806.275,"endTime":3811.14,"body":"there's a certain canon and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3806.275,"endTime":3811.14,"body":"tradition of photography that is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3811.221,"endTime":3816.248,"body":"very prevalent in the US, and,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3811.221,"endTime":3816.248,"body":"and it was good to break out of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3816.329,"endTime":3821.194,"body":"that. So, so that was probably"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3816.329,"endTime":3821.194,"body":"the most pivotal moment in my"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3821.275,"endTime":3822.33,"body":"career. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3828.61,"endTime":3832.6,"body":"that you feel at the time felt"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3828.61,"endTime":3832.6,"body":"wrong? And what you learned from"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3832.6,"endTime":3832.75,"body":"it?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3834.04,"endTime":3835.09,"body":"A wrong turn..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3835.12,"endTime":3838.96,"body":"Yeah, just a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3835.12,"endTime":3838.96,"body":"decision that at the time,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3838.96,"endTime":3840.82,"body":"you're like, maybe that wasn't"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3838.96,"endTime":3840.82,"body":"the right way to go."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3841.42,"endTime":3844.39,"body":"I don't know if"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3841.42,"endTime":3844.39,"body":"I really believe in wrong turns."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3845.02,"endTime":3849.46,"body":"I don't have any regrets."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3845.02,"endTime":3849.46,"body":"Because, you know, sometimes I'm"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3849.46,"endTime":3851.17,"body":"like, oh, I should have gone to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3849.46,"endTime":3851.17,"body":"art school instead of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3851.17,"endTime":3853.57,"body":"photojournalism school. But"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3851.17,"endTime":3853.57,"body":"actually, I'm really happy I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3853.57,"endTime":3854.5,"body":"didn't go to art school."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3855.09,"endTime":3856.5,"body":"Yeah, because"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3855.09,"endTime":3856.5,"body":"everything kind of led you to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3856.5,"endTime":3857.31,"body":"where you are now."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3857.54,"endTime":3860.66,"body":"Yeah. And you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3857.54,"endTime":3860.66,"body":"know, I've had a really I've had"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3860.66,"endTime":3863.24,"body":"a lot of really incredible"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3860.66,"endTime":3863.24,"body":"experiences because of the path"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3863.24,"endTime":3867.71,"body":"that I took. And and I wouldn't,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3863.24,"endTime":3867.71,"body":"you know, if I would have gone"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3867.71,"endTime":3871.64,"body":"to an art school in the US, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3867.71,"endTime":3871.64,"body":"feel like it could have been a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3871.64,"endTime":3877.52,"body":"trap into another way of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3871.64,"endTime":3877.52,"body":"thinking that I appreciate now"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3877.55,"endTime":3881.36,"body":"as an outsider. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3877.55,"endTime":3881.36,"body":"the, the free education you can"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3881.36,"endTime":3885.14,"body":"get online now is kind of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3881.36,"endTime":3885.14,"body":"amazing. I spend a lot of time"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3885.14,"endTime":3890.69,"body":"kind of relearning a lot of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3885.14,"endTime":3890.69,"body":"things through podcasts like"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3890.69,"endTime":3895.73,"body":"yours, or, you know, YouTube"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3890.69,"endTime":3895.73,"body":"lectures, but, you know, I think"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3895.73,"endTime":3902.27,"body":"one one thing that I felt while"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3895.73,"endTime":3902.27,"body":"I was in the moment, maybe I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3902.27,"endTime":3905.15,"body":"felt like it wasn't the right"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3902.27,"endTime":3905.15,"body":"choice. And I wish maybe I could"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3905.15,"endTime":3909.47,"body":"have researched a little more."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3905.15,"endTime":3909.47,"body":"And again, when I say this with"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3909.47,"endTime":3914.18,"body":"kind of... I say this very"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3909.47,"endTime":3914.18,"body":"lightly because it's, I don't"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3914.33,"endTime":3916.61,"body":"completely feel it, but just to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3914.33,"endTime":3916.61,"body":"to answer your question,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3916.61,"endTime":3920.69,"body":"because, you know, when I went"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3916.61,"endTime":3920.69,"body":"to grad school, I didn't really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3920.69,"endTime":3928.13,"body":"research what grad schools I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3920.69,"endTime":3928.13,"body":"could go to. And I followed the"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3928.13,"endTime":3932.84,"body":"lead that my mentor.... I did"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3928.13,"endTime":3932.84,"body":"this workshop, in Portland,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3932.84,"endTime":3936.65,"body":"Maine, a photo workshop. It's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3932.84,"endTime":3936.65,"body":"really where I learned that"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3936.65,"endTime":3941.27,"body":"documentary photography was a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3936.65,"endTime":3941.27,"body":"thing. But before that, I really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3941.27,"endTime":3944.54,"body":"loved taking pictures. This is"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3941.27,"endTime":3944.54,"body":"when I, after I graduated from"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3944.54,"endTime":3947.75,"body":"college, I went abroad for a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3944.54,"endTime":3947.75,"body":"year and a half, I was teaching"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3947.75,"endTime":3953.63,"body":"in Namibia. And I always really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3947.75,"endTime":3953.63,"body":"wanted to be a writer. And so I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3953.63,"endTime":3956.75,"body":"went, and I thought, I need to,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3953.63,"endTime":3956.75,"body":"like, go and see the world. So I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3956.75,"endTime":3960.89,"body":"took this teaching position in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3956.75,"endTime":3960.89,"body":"Namibia for a year and a half"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3960.89,"endTime":3966.14,"body":"and, and was writing and writing"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3960.89,"endTime":3966.14,"body":"and thinking, you know, I wanted"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3966.14,"endTime":3970.16,"body":"to be some kind of like,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3966.14,"endTime":3970.16,"body":"journalist, but I was also"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3970.16,"endTime":3973.16,"body":"taking pictures and photography"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3970.16,"endTime":3973.16,"body":"ended up being a much more"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3973.16,"endTime":3977.48,"body":"natural way for me to express my"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3973.16,"endTime":3977.48,"body":"experiences there somehow. So I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3977.48,"endTime":3981.32,"body":"came back and I did a workshop"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3977.48,"endTime":3981.32,"body":"in Portland, Maine, at the Salt"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3981.32,"endTime":3984.98,"body":"Institute for Documentary"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3981.32,"endTime":3984.98,"body":"Studies, that is now defunct."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3986.12,"endTime":3989.48,"body":"But when I was there, my mentor,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3986.12,"endTime":3989.48,"body":"you know, I said, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3989.48,"endTime":3991.76,"body":"what to do next. What do I do?"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3989.48,"endTime":3991.76,"body":"He's like, go to photojournalism"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3991.76,"endTime":3995.96,"body":"school, and get a job in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3991.76,"endTime":3995.96,"body":"newspaper, you know, you'll have"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3995.96,"endTime":3998.84,"body":"a job as a photographer. I was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3995.96,"endTime":3998.84,"body":"like, oh, that sounds amazing."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3998.9,"endTime":4002.17,"body":"Like, I'll have a job in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":3998.9,"endTime":4002.17,"body":"photography, holy shit. And so"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4002.17,"endTime":4006.73,"body":"I, I ended up applying to Ohio"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4002.17,"endTime":4006.73,"body":"University, which is/was one of"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4006.73,"endTime":4009.58,"body":"the top photojournalism schools"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4006.73,"endTime":4009.58,"body":"at that time. As a grad student,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4009.58,"endTime":4013.81,"body":"that's where I'm met Carolyn."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4009.58,"endTime":4013.81,"body":"So, you know, maybe I may regret"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4013.81,"endTime":4017.59,"body":"having gone there. I do not"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4013.81,"endTime":4017.59,"body":"regret going on, because I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4017.59,"endTime":4021.43,"body":"wouldn't have met Carlin. But,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4017.59,"endTime":4021.43,"body":"but while I was there, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4021.43,"endTime":4024.79,"body":"definitely, I definitely"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4021.43,"endTime":4024.79,"body":"realized quickly, it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4024.79,"endTime":4031.51,"body":"really what I wanted to do. And,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4024.79,"endTime":4031.51,"body":"and, you know, the other thing"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4031.51,"endTime":4034.84,"body":"that kind of sucks, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4031.51,"endTime":4034.84,"body":"did meet some really interesting"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4034.84,"endTime":4040.51,"body":"people there. And I learned a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4034.84,"endTime":4040.51,"body":"lot about the tools around"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4040.51,"endTime":4043.63,"body":"photography. So like, how to use"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4040.51,"endTime":4043.63,"body":"Photoshop and how to use"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4043.63,"endTime":4052.12,"body":"InDesign. Not that I couldn't"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4043.63,"endTime":4052.12,"body":"have learned that. But I was"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4052.12,"endTime":4054.31,"body":"able, you know, the good thing"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4052.12,"endTime":4054.31,"body":"about is that I walked out and I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4054.31,"endTime":4057.13,"body":"was able to, like, shoot a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4054.31,"endTime":4057.13,"body":"magazine story. And that, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4057.13,"endTime":4060.25,"body":"know, that helped with"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4057.13,"endTime":4060.25,"body":"freelancing, but I didn't walk"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4060.25,"endTime":4063.85,"body":"out of there with an MFA so I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4060.25,"endTime":4063.85,"body":"could actually get a teaching"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4063.85,"endTime":4067.57,"body":"job, like a tenured teaching"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4063.85,"endTime":4067.57,"body":"job. And that's been a real"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4068.08,"endTime":4071.11,"body":"struggle, because as my work has"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4068.08,"endTime":4071.11,"body":"drifted further and further away"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4071.11,"endTime":4076.33,"body":"from editorial, the editorial"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4071.11,"endTime":4076.33,"body":"style and less work as a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4076.33,"endTime":4079.18,"body":"magazine photographer, because I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4076.33,"endTime":4079.18,"body":"was really living off that for a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4079.18,"endTime":4083.14,"body":"long time. But as my work has"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4079.18,"endTime":4083.14,"body":"been drifting off, away from"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4083.14,"endTime":4087.25,"body":"that kind of photography, I've"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4083.14,"endTime":4087.25,"body":"had a hard time, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4087.25,"endTime":4090.76,"body":"financially supporting myself."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4087.25,"endTime":4090.76,"body":"So I really want to teach. I've"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4090.76,"endTime":4094.42,"body":"taught at a few different"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4090.76,"endTime":4094.42,"body":"schools and really loved it. As"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4094.42,"endTime":4099.73,"body":"an adjunct, but I just can't"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4094.42,"endTime":4099.73,"body":"seem to find a place that I can,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4100.3,"endTime":4104.62,"body":"you know, get a full time"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4100.3,"endTime":4104.62,"body":"teaching position. So maybe like"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4104.62,"endTime":4107.23,"body":"a wrong turn, I would say is"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4104.62,"endTime":4107.23,"body":"like, not realizing that I would"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4107.23,"endTime":4111.91,"body":"want to teach in the future. You"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4107.23,"endTime":4111.91,"body":"know, not getting an MFA. But"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4112.36,"endTime":4115.93,"body":"that said, you know, I'm piecing"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4112.36,"endTime":4115.93,"body":"things together here and there"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4115.93,"endTime":4120.85,"body":"and like, you know, it's been"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4115.93,"endTime":4120.85,"body":"part of my creative process."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4121.12,"endTime":4125.05,"body":"Part of my creative life has"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4121.12,"endTime":4125.05,"body":"also been, you know, finding"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4125.05,"endTime":4129.01,"body":"creative ways to support myself."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4125.05,"endTime":4129.01,"body":"So, now, you know, it's like, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4129.01,"endTime":4131.86,"body":"do a little photo editing, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4129.01,"endTime":4131.86,"body":"teach an adjunct, you know, as"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4131.86,"endTime":4136.24,"body":"an adjunct professor, I'll, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4131.86,"endTime":4136.24,"body":"know, sell some prints. I'll do"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4136.27,"endTime":4141.07,"body":"maybe a portrait or two for a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4136.27,"endTime":4141.07,"body":"magazine. Work, as you know, um,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4142.24,"endTime":4146.32,"body":"I don't know, Carolyn and I will"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4142.24,"endTime":4146.32,"body":"do a workshop together. So"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4146.47,"endTime":4150.37,"body":"that's, that's been, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4146.47,"endTime":4150.37,"body":"the thing that's the other side"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4150.37,"endTime":4151.15,"body":"of the hustle."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4151.27,"endTime":4153.82,"body":"Yeah. You know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4151.27,"endTime":4153.82,"body":"the hustle is real."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4153.91,"endTime":4155.41,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4153.91,"endTime":4155.41,"body":"definitely."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4155.89,"endTime":4159.37,"body":"My last question"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4155.89,"endTime":4159.37,"body":"is, how do you define success"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4159.37,"endTime":4160.21,"body":"for yourself?"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4161.239,"endTime":4166.189,"body":"I, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4161.239,"endTime":4166.189,"body":"really put a lot importance to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4166.339,"endTime":4176.689,"body":"learning. I think success for me"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4166.339,"endTime":4176.689,"body":"is when I feel immersed in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4176.689,"endTime":4184.909,"body":"something where I'm learning and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4176.689,"endTime":4184.909,"body":"being educated. I think that's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4184.939,"endTime":4188.209,"body":"where I feel like I'm"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4184.939,"endTime":4188.209,"body":"succeeding."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4188.449,"endTime":4190.429,"body":"Like you're kind"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4188.449,"endTime":4190.429,"body":"of hitting on all cylinders."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4190.6,"endTime":4195.16,"body":"Yeah, like when"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4190.6,"endTime":4195.16,"body":"I feel like really invigorated"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4195.16,"endTime":4199.51,"body":"with when I'm really engaged"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4195.16,"endTime":4199.51,"body":"with my mind and immersing"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4199.51,"endTime":4205.03,"body":"myself in a project or in, in a"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4199.51,"endTime":4205.03,"body":"stream of thought, or a text,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4205.99,"endTime":4211.72,"body":"and feeling like, I'm starting"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4205.99,"endTime":4211.72,"body":"to make connections and, and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4211.72,"endTime":4216.58,"body":"build, something's building,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4211.72,"endTime":4216.58,"body":"whether it's physical or just in"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4216.58,"endTime":4221.17,"body":"my mind, something is growing. I"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4216.58,"endTime":4221.17,"body":"feel like that's, that's"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4221.17,"endTime":4227.32,"body":"success. It's so hard to get"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4221.17,"endTime":4227.32,"body":"there for me, it's hard to find"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4227.32,"endTime":4231.52,"body":"time where you're not just"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4227.32,"endTime":4231.52,"body":"being, you know, swallowed up by"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4231.55,"endTime":4236.35,"body":"the pressures of just living and"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4231.55,"endTime":4236.35,"body":"you're taking care of yourself"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4236.35,"endTime":4245.98,"body":"and, and surviving. If I have"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4236.35,"endTime":4245.98,"body":"time, to allow myself to really"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4245.98,"endTime":4250.0,"body":"be immersed in thought, I think"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4245.98,"endTime":4250.0,"body":"that's, that's when I feel like"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4250.0,"endTime":4255.28,"body":"I'm succeeding. Because I've,"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4250.0,"endTime":4255.28,"body":"I've made a life where I or at"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4255.28,"endTime":4261.28,"body":"least I'm finding a way to find"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4255.28,"endTime":4261.28,"body":"a life where that is part of it."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4261.51,"endTime":4265.98,"body":"Yeah, I love it."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4261.51,"endTime":4265.98,"body":"Thank you for listening to the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4265.98,"endTime":4270.06,"body":"Perfect Bound podcast. I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4265.98,"endTime":4270.06,"body":"Jennifer Yoffy. You can listen"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4270.06,"endTime":4274.23,"body":"to previous episodes by going on"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4270.06,"endTime":4274.23,"body":"to the Yoffy Press website. You"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4274.23,"endTime":4279.06,"body":"can also find this podcast on"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4274.23,"endTime":4279.06,"body":"Spotify, Apple podcasts, or any"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4279.06,"endTime":4282.42,"body":"other podcast streaming"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4279.06,"endTime":4282.42,"body":"platform. And if you love it,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4282.42,"endTime":4286.08,"body":"which I hope you do, please go"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4282.42,"endTime":4286.08,"body":"on to one of those places and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4286.11,"endTime":4289.98,"body":"give it all the stars. Thank you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4286.11,"endTime":4289.98,"body":"so much again, and I'll see you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4289.98,"endTime":4290.61,"body":"next time."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4294.06,"endTime":4295.35,"body":"This is so wonderful."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4295.41,"endTime":4296.76,"body":"Oh, sure, it"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4295.41,"endTime":4296.76,"body":"was fun."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4296.0,"endTime":4299.99,"body":"I had a thought"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4296.0,"endTime":4299.99,"body":"you had talked about microfiche"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4302.54,"endTime":4305.27,"body":"earlier. That's still a thing?"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4306.29,"endTime":4308.6,"body":"Yeah, yeah, you"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4306.29,"endTime":4308.6,"body":"can go to any library and go"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4308.6,"endTime":4310.64,"body":"through their microfiche. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4310.93,"endTime":4313.93,"body":"When I was in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4310.93,"endTime":4313.93,"body":"fifth grade, I had this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4314.23,"endTime":4318.52,"body":"entrepreneurial little club, it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4314.23,"endTime":4318.52,"body":"was like me and three friends"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4318.52,"endTime":4322.54,"body":"that I bossed around because of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4318.52,"endTime":4322.54,"body":"course I was the president and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4322.93,"endTime":4328.48,"body":"one of the girls had a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4322.93,"endTime":4328.48,"body":"the microfiche little, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4328.51,"endTime":4331.99,"body":"it's blue, and like kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4328.51,"endTime":4331.99,"body":"transparent. And we made"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4331.99,"endTime":4337.0,"body":"sunglasses out of them with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4331.99,"endTime":4337.0,"body":"like, potholder loops on the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4337.0,"endTime":4337.39,"body":"side."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4337.39,"endTime":4337.51,"body":"Oh cool."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4337.54,"endTime":4340.33,"body":"Yeah. And we"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4337.54,"endTime":4340.33,"body":"were selling them in elementary"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4340.33,"endTime":4347.38,"body":"school and really rocking it in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4340.33,"endTime":4347.38,"body":"until some horrible person we"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4347.38,"endTime":4351.49,"body":"sold them to took him to her eye"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4347.38,"endTime":4351.49,"body":"doctor, who said that they could"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4351.52,"endTime":4354.31,"body":"really mess up your eyes and it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4351.52,"endTime":4354.31,"body":"really put us out of business."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4354.31,"endTime":4354.52,"body":"Oh noooo."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4355.42,"endTime":4357.82,"body":"Yeah, but I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4355.42,"endTime":4357.82,"body":"haven't thought about microfiche"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4357.82,"endTime":4358.69,"body":"since then."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4358.99,"endTime":4359.65,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4360.25,"endTime":4363.64,"body":"Yeah, yeah. So"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4360.25,"endTime":4363.64,"body":"don't don't make sunglasses out"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4363.64,"endTime":4367.0,"body":"of them. Not a good, not a good"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4363.64,"endTime":4367.0,"body":"business model."},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4367.45,"endTime":4368.56,"body":"It's good to"},{"speaker":"Andres Gonzalez","startTime":4367.45,"endTime":4368.56,"body":"know good."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4368.56,"endTime":4371.86,"body":"Yeah, yeah, word"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4368.56,"endTime":4371.86,"body":"to the wise, don't incorporate"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":4371.86,"endTime":4372.55,"body":"it in the hustle. (laughs)"}]}