{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":8.189,"endTime":10.259,"body":"I'm Jennifer"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":8.189,"endTime":10.259,"body":"Yoffy, the founder and publisher"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":10.259,"endTime":13.649,"body":"of Yoffy Press in Atlanta,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":10.259,"endTime":13.649,"body":"Georgia. This is a podcast where"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":13.649,"endTime":16.499,"body":"we talk to artists about their"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":13.649,"endTime":16.499,"body":"journey, how they got where they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":16.499,"endTime":19.589,"body":"are, what right and wrong turns"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":16.499,"endTime":19.589,"body":"they made along the way, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":19.589,"endTime":20.609,"body":"where they're heading next."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":28.28,"endTime":31.79,"body":"David Chickey is the publisher,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":28.28,"endTime":31.79,"body":"designer and editorial director"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":31.79,"endTime":34.7,"body":"of Radius Books, a nonprofit"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":31.79,"endTime":34.7,"body":"publishing company based in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":34.7,"endTime":39.32,"body":"Santa Fe. He co-founded Radius"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":34.7,"endTime":39.32,"body":"Books in 2007 with a mission to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":39.32,"endTime":42.56,"body":"encourage, promote and publish"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":39.32,"endTime":42.56,"body":"books of artistic and cultural"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":42.56,"endTime":46.34,"body":"value. Radius titles have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":42.56,"endTime":46.34,"body":"received national recognition,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":46.61,"endTime":50.42,"body":"including multiple awards from"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":46.61,"endTime":50.42,"body":"AIGA American Association of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":50.42,"endTime":53.57,"body":"Museums Publishing, and Best"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":50.42,"endTime":53.57,"body":"Book nominations from the New"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":53.57,"endTime":58.52,"body":"Yorker, Time PDN, Smithsonian,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":53.57,"endTime":58.52,"body":"Independent Publisher, and the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":58.52,"endTime":63.02,"body":"Paris Photo Aperture Foundation."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":58.52,"endTime":63.02,"body":"Chickey is the former Board"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":63.02,"endTime":65.81,"body":"Chair of the Center for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":63.02,"endTime":65.81,"body":"Contemporary Arts in Santa Fe,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":65.87,"endTime":68.66,"body":"and a graduate of Sussex"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":65.87,"endTime":68.66,"body":"University England and UNC"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":68.66,"endTime":72.26,"body":"Chapel Hill, where he was a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":68.66,"endTime":72.26,"body":"Morehead scholar. Please welcome"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":72.26,"endTime":73.94,"body":"David Chickey to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":85.56,"endTime":86.64,"body":"How's it been going?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":88.19,"endTime":90.89,"body":"Busy, busy. How"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":88.19,"endTime":90.89,"body":"about you?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":91.44,"endTime":95.13,"body":"Same, busy."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":91.44,"endTime":95.13,"body":"Every book is delayed"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":95.22,"endTime":97.44,"body":"significantly. So that's fun."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":97.56,"endTime":100.17,"body":"Yeah, that's the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":97.56,"endTime":100.17,"body":"reality right now. Craziness"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":100.17,"endTime":102.72,"body":"happening with everything -"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":100.17,"endTime":102.72,"body":"supply chain these days."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":103.53,"endTime":107.07,"body":"Photo Eye, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":103.53,"endTime":107.07,"body":"know, wants to do the best books"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":107.07,"endTime":111.39,"body":"of 2021. And I was trying to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":107.07,"endTime":111.39,"body":"look like every book I pulled"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":111.39,"endTime":115.47,"body":"out was not 2021. Like this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":111.39,"endTime":115.47,"body":"surely has to have been recent?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":116.79,"endTime":118.23,"body":"Nope, that's before now."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":118.53,"endTime":122.52,"body":"Yeah. Yeah, just"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":118.53,"endTime":122.52,"body":"I just had a book where I went"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":122.52,"endTime":126.48,"body":"to be on press well, for three"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":122.52,"endTime":126.48,"body":"books, and one of the papers"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":126.48,"endTime":129.66,"body":"that arrived was problematic."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":130.35,"endTime":131.31,"body":"Oh, no."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":131.43,"endTime":135.33,"body":"And so, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":131.43,"endTime":135.33,"body":"paper is such a rare commodity"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":135.33,"endTime":138.78,"body":"these days that it's not like,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":135.33,"endTime":138.78,"body":"if there's an issue with that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":138.78,"endTime":142.08,"body":"paper, you can just substitute"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":138.78,"endTime":142.08,"body":"it with something else. I mean,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":142.08,"endTime":149.4,"body":"it's, it's just not. So yeah."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":142.08,"endTime":149.4,"body":"But we're getting delivery now"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":149.58,"endTime":151.14,"body":"of the books I printed in June."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":151.96,"endTime":154.48,"body":"That sounds"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":151.96,"endTime":154.48,"body":"about right. Yeah, I've got some"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":154.48,"endTime":160.69,"body":"books that are finally stuck in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":154.48,"endTime":160.69,"body":"customs. And I'm like, well,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":160.69,"endTime":161.8,"body":"these they're closer."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":163.24,"endTime":164.62,"body":"So how many books"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":163.24,"endTime":164.62,"body":"do you work on?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":168.13,"endTime":172.69,"body":"My goal is for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":168.13,"endTime":172.69,"body":"it to be fewer than it is right"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":172.72,"endTime":179.32,"body":"now. (laughs) Yeah. I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":172.72,"endTime":179.32,"body":"been between like six and ten a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":179.32,"endTime":187.45,"body":"year. And it's just me. So"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":179.32,"endTime":187.45,"body":"that's a lot. And I also have a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":187.45,"endTime":193.18,"body":"full time job. So I kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":187.45,"endTime":193.18,"body":"Yeah, I would like to scale"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":193.18,"endTime":199.24,"body":"back. It's part of the new...,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":193.18,"endTime":199.24,"body":"the new new plan. (laughs)"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":199.0,"endTime":200.38,"body":"We all have new"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":199.0,"endTime":200.38,"body":"new plans."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":200.56,"endTime":203.86,"body":"Yeah, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":200.56,"endTime":203.86,"body":"I'm really booked through like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":203.86,"endTime":207.64,"body":"2022. And now that these keep"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":203.86,"endTime":207.64,"body":"getting pushed, you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":207.64,"endTime":211.57,"body":"like, Okay, well, the new new"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":207.64,"endTime":211.57,"body":"plans probably gonna change 20"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":211.57,"endTime":216.34,"body":"times by then. But I get excited"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":211.57,"endTime":216.34,"body":"about projects. And I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":216.37,"endTime":219.94,"body":"Oh, I can do it. You know, like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":216.37,"endTime":219.94,"body":"this one's gonna be easy. It's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":219.94,"endTime":225.76,"body":"like almost already designed and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":219.94,"endTime":225.76,"body":"it's never, ever, ever any"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":225.76,"endTime":232.9,"body":"different. They all take a whole"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":225.76,"endTime":232.9,"body":"lot of time. But you guys do a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":232.9,"endTime":233.89,"body":"ton now."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":234.97,"endTime":235.96,"body":"We do about 20."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":236.26,"endTime":237.46,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":236.26,"endTime":237.46,"body":"what I thought."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":237.72,"endTime":244.98,"body":"Yeah. It varies."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":237.72,"endTime":244.98,"body":"And then we didn't do 20 in"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":244.98,"endTime":249.45,"body":"2020. You know, trying to figure"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":244.98,"endTime":249.45,"body":"out what was going on and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":250.08,"endTime":255.27,"body":"restructure and shuffle. But"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":250.08,"endTime":255.27,"body":"what is the word everyone hates?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":255.27,"endTime":261.09,"body":"Now we pivoted, we had to, we"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":255.27,"endTime":261.09,"body":"had to pivot? A little bit."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":261.21,"endTime":262.08,"body":"Where do you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":261.21,"endTime":262.08,"body":"print?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":263.4,"endTime":264.33,"body":"Italy? Mostly?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":264.96,"endTime":268.44,"body":"Okay, but it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":264.96,"endTime":268.44,"body":"kind of depends on the project?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":269.23,"endTime":274.15,"body":"It does. I mean,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":269.23,"endTime":274.15,"body":"yeah, it mixes up."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":276.16,"endTime":277.93,"body":"And have you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":276.16,"endTime":277.93,"body":"printed Meghann Riepenhoff's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":277.96,"endTime":278.89,"body":"newest one yet?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":278.92,"endTime":286.09,"body":"Yeah. We did. It"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":278.92,"endTime":286.09,"body":"printed a few weeks ago. Five"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":286.09,"endTime":286.69,"body":"weeks ago."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":288.25,"endTime":288.91,"body":"Exciting."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":289.6,"endTime":294.88,"body":"Yeah, it's such"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":289.6,"endTime":294.88,"body":"beautiful work. Not easy to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":294.88,"endTime":298.0,"body":"print. But so worth it."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":298.24,"endTime":301.75,"body":"Yeah, yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":298.24,"endTime":301.75,"body":"she is so wonderful to work"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":301.75,"endTime":302.11,"body":"with."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":302.29,"endTime":303.13,"body":"Yeah, she's"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":302.29,"endTime":303.13,"body":"amazing."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":303.46,"endTime":306.49,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. Kind"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":303.46,"endTime":306.49,"body":"of like over the top. Amazing."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":306.67,"endTime":307.06,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":308.89,"endTime":312.37,"body":"So I have a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":308.89,"endTime":312.37,"body":"bunch of questions for you are"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":312.0,"endTime":318.09,"body":"I can be ready. Oh, this is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":312.0,"endTime":318.09,"body":"easy. Have we already started?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":312.37,"endTime":312.97,"body":"you ready?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":318.39,"endTime":318.42,"body":"(laughs)"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":322.44,"endTime":327.99,"body":"So I wanted to ask about Radius"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":322.44,"endTime":327.99,"body":"being a nonprofit. So it was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":327.99,"endTime":332.94,"body":"founded in 2007, by you Darius"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":327.99,"endTime":332.94,"body":"Himes, and David Skolkin. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":332.94,"endTime":337.41,"body":"Joanna Hurley. And the idea is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":332.94,"endTime":337.41,"body":"that it was a nonprofit"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":337.41,"endTime":340.98,"body":"publishing company that would"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":337.41,"endTime":340.98,"body":"work with public libraries. And"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":340.98,"endTime":344.61,"body":"I was curious, I wanted you to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":340.98,"endTime":344.61,"body":"talk more about that, and how"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":344.61,"endTime":349.2,"body":"the 501 C3 status benefits the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":344.61,"endTime":349.2,"body":"artists that you work with, from"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":349.2,"endTime":350.73,"body":"a fundraising perspective?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":352.22,"endTime":355.31,"body":"Yeah, really, it"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":352.22,"endTime":355.31,"body":"was, it was really born out of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":355.31,"endTime":361.55,"body":"two kind of different"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":355.31,"endTime":361.55,"body":"experiences at the time. So"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":361.55,"endTime":366.59,"body":"when, when we started talking"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":361.55,"endTime":366.59,"body":"about, about Radius and about"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":366.59,"endTime":371.27,"body":"this idea of a publishing"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":366.59,"endTime":371.27,"body":"company, that wasn't not"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":371.27,"endTime":374.18,"body":"necessarily a nonprofit, we just"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":371.27,"endTime":374.18,"body":"started having conversations"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":374.18,"endTime":379.07,"body":"about were there ways to think"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":374.18,"endTime":379.07,"body":"about publishing books that were"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":379.07,"endTime":382.46,"body":"a little different than the way"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":379.07,"endTime":382.46,"body":"they were being done. Because"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":382.46,"endTime":385.73,"body":"all of us were working in and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":382.46,"endTime":385.73,"body":"out of the publishing world. I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":386.3,"endTime":389.99,"body":"was then working as a designer,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":386.3,"endTime":389.99,"body":"mostly, but working for a lot of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":389.99,"endTime":393.86,"body":"other for profit publishers. I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":389.99,"endTime":393.86,"body":"wasn't calling them for profit"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":396.23,"endTime":400.37,"body":"publishers. But one of the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":396.23,"endTime":400.37,"body":"things that kept coming up in"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":400.37,"endTime":406.31,"body":"those situations is that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":400.37,"endTime":406.31,"body":"publishers making decisions that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":406.31,"endTime":410.6,"body":"were, of course, protective of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":406.31,"endTime":410.6,"body":"the bottom line, weren't"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":410.6,"endTime":413.66,"body":"necessarily always making"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":410.6,"endTime":413.66,"body":"decisions that were in the best"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":413.66,"endTime":420.74,"body":"interest of the artists. And so"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":413.66,"endTime":420.74,"body":"this idea of how do you get back"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":420.89,"endTime":426.26,"body":"or how do you get to a place"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":420.89,"endTime":426.26,"body":"where you can publish books from"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":426.26,"endTime":430.13,"body":"this perspective of how do you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":426.26,"endTime":430.13,"body":"take an artist's vision and put"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":430.13,"endTime":435.29,"body":"it in book form? My background"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":430.13,"endTime":435.29,"body":"had always been in the art world"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":435.35,"endTime":438.62,"body":"and had been from museums and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":435.35,"endTime":438.62,"body":"galleries, and I've worked in"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":438.62,"endTime":441.47,"body":"auction houses. So I had kind of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":438.62,"endTime":441.47,"body":"a pretty broad spectrum"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":441.47,"endTime":447.71,"body":"understanding the art world and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":441.47,"endTime":447.71,"body":"to whatever degree I could. And"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":447.74,"endTime":450.17,"body":"so when, when the four of us"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":447.74,"endTime":450.17,"body":"were talking about this, I came"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":450.17,"endTime":452.69,"body":"back to them and said, You know,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":450.17,"endTime":452.69,"body":"I think that this could be"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":452.69,"endTime":459.44,"body":"structured as a nonprofit,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":452.69,"endTime":459.44,"body":"because the model of art museum,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":460.25,"endTime":464.33,"body":"doing essentially a similar kind"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":460.25,"endTime":464.33,"body":"of idea, which is to take an"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":464.33,"endTime":467.48,"body":"artist or an artist vision and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":464.33,"endTime":467.48,"body":"put it on a platform that can be"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":467.48,"endTime":471.47,"body":"shared with a bigger audience,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":467.48,"endTime":471.47,"body":"that, you know, we don't expect"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":471.53,"endTime":475.58,"body":"art museums, because almost all"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":471.53,"endTime":475.58,"body":"of the art museums that we know"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":475.58,"endTime":480.11,"body":"of now are, you know, structured"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":475.58,"endTime":480.11,"body":"as civic organizations, but"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":480.11,"endTime":485.21,"body":"they're nonprofits, and they"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":480.11,"endTime":485.21,"body":"don't exist based on the ticket"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":485.21,"endTime":488.09,"body":"price that you pay when you walk"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":485.21,"endTime":488.09,"body":"in the door. Sure, they"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":488.09,"endTime":491.48,"body":"fundraise for all of their"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":488.09,"endTime":491.48,"body":"programming and everything else"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":491.48,"endTime":496.31,"body":"they do. And I think one of the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":491.48,"endTime":496.31,"body":"basic ideas is that publishing"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":496.31,"endTime":500.24,"body":"art books isn't much different"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":496.31,"endTime":500.24,"body":"than that concept."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":501.62,"endTime":505.64,"body":"It's expensive."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":501.62,"endTime":505.64,"body":"And the ticket price to a museum"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":505.64,"endTime":509.45,"body":"would be, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":505.64,"endTime":509.45,"body":"preventatively high, as would"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":510.56,"endTime":513.89,"body":"the per book cost if you were"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":510.56,"endTime":513.89,"body":"doing it straight out."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":513.96,"endTime":517.98,"body":"Very early on. A"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":513.96,"endTime":517.98,"body":"mentor for me in the publishing"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":517.98,"endTime":523.02,"body":"world, told me that their model"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":517.98,"endTime":523.02,"body":"was always predicated on no"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":523.02,"endTime":524.94,"body":"matter what kind of book they"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":523.02,"endTime":524.94,"body":"published. And this was not"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":524.94,"endTime":527.07,"body":"necessarily an art book"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":524.94,"endTime":527.07,"body":"publisher. This was somebody at"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":527.07,"endTime":531.93,"body":"Abrams, who had this perspective"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":527.07,"endTime":531.93,"body":"of a broad spectrum of books."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":532.2,"endTime":537.69,"body":"But their bottom line concept"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":532.2,"endTime":537.69,"body":"was that they had to sell 3000"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":537.69,"endTime":542.46,"body":"copies of any book that they"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":537.69,"endTime":542.46,"body":"published, in order to break"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":542.49,"endTime":549.81,"body":"even on that project. And if you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":542.49,"endTime":549.81,"body":"look at this kind of crazy,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":549.81,"endTime":555.81,"body":"wonderful burgeoning art photo"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":549.81,"endTime":555.81,"body":"book world, it's extraordinarily"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":555.81,"endTime":560.19,"body":"rare for a book to sell more"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":555.81,"endTime":560.19,"body":"than 3000 copies or up to 3000"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":560.19,"endTime":565.83,"body":"copies. So that little piece of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":560.19,"endTime":565.83,"body":"information tells you right"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":565.83,"endTime":568.95,"body":"there that if, if that's what"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":565.83,"endTime":568.95,"body":"they were thinking, and of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":568.95,"endTime":572.1,"body":"course, they thought that you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":568.95,"endTime":572.1,"body":"know, a novel that sells 3000"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":572.1,"endTime":575.1,"body":"copies or a very expensive art"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":572.1,"endTime":575.1,"body":"book, of course, they make more"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":575.1,"endTime":577.56,"body":"money on a more expensive art"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":575.1,"endTime":577.56,"body":"book than they do on a novel."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":577.56,"endTime":582.03,"body":"But that general sort of rule of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":577.56,"endTime":582.03,"body":"thumb always applied. If we're"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":582.03,"endTime":585.45,"body":"living now in a world where I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":582.03,"endTime":585.45,"body":"think all these incredible books"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":585.45,"endTime":587.73,"body":"that are being published by"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":585.45,"endTime":587.73,"body":"small publishers and independent"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":587.73,"endTime":591.03,"body":"publishers and people who are"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":587.73,"endTime":591.03,"body":"self publishing and all of these"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":591.03,"endTime":595.14,"body":"great things, they're not"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":591.03,"endTime":595.14,"body":"generally selling 3000 copies of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":595.14,"endTime":600.12,"body":"the book, so the sale of the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":595.14,"endTime":600.12,"body":"book itself is not going to fund"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":600.3,"endTime":605.61,"body":"the making of the book. So where"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":600.3,"endTime":605.61,"body":"do you get to that from other"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":605.61,"endTime":610.2,"body":"perspectives? How do you think"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":605.61,"endTime":610.2,"body":"about it? At the same time, I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":610.2,"endTime":615.18,"body":"had gone to this publishing"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":610.2,"endTime":615.18,"body":"seminar and there was a panel"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":615.18,"endTime":621.15,"body":"discussion amongst some really"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":615.18,"endTime":621.15,"body":"good art book publishers. When"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":621.15,"endTime":625.77,"body":"you go back, and so this would"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":621.15,"endTime":625.77,"body":"have been Radiuses, 14 years old"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":625.77,"endTime":630.39,"body":"now, so this would have been"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":625.77,"endTime":630.39,"body":"17-18 years ago. And if you go"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":630.39,"endTime":636.42,"body":"back 20-25 years ago, there were"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":630.39,"endTime":636.42,"body":"roughly 2500 libraries in this"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":636.42,"endTime":640.44,"body":"country. And the big art book"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":636.42,"endTime":640.44,"body":"publishers could count on the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":640.44,"endTime":644.4,"body":"fact that every time they"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":640.44,"endTime":644.4,"body":"published a book, most of those"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":644.4,"endTime":647.25,"body":"libraries, especially the bigger"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":644.4,"endTime":647.25,"body":"ones would buy pretty much"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":647.25,"endTime":649.47,"body":"whatever they published, because"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":647.25,"endTime":649.47,"body":"they wanted to have them in"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":649.47,"endTime":655.41,"body":"their stacks. And that going"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":649.47,"endTime":655.41,"body":"back 20 years ago, was starting"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":655.5,"endTime":660.24,"body":"to disappear. And so this panel"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":655.5,"endTime":660.24,"body":"discussion was very much a group"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":660.24,"endTime":662.88,"body":"of publishers talking about the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":660.24,"endTime":662.88,"body":"crisis, because if you think"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":662.88,"endTime":665.13,"body":"about it, if they could"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":662.88,"endTime":665.13,"body":"guarantee that they sold 1000,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":665.16,"endTime":668.52,"body":"or 1500, copies to libraries,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":665.16,"endTime":668.52,"body":"with any book, they published"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":668.52,"endTime":672.57,"body":"pretty much no matter what they"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":668.52,"endTime":672.57,"body":"published. They were headed"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":672.57,"endTime":676.59,"body":"towards 3000 copies being sold,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":672.57,"endTime":676.59,"body":"you know, with this built in"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":676.59,"endTime":676.77,"body":"system."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":677.16,"endTime":680.67,"body":"Sure. And was it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":677.16,"endTime":680.67,"body":"going away, because libraries"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":680.67,"endTime":684.45,"body":"didn't have enough funding, or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":680.67,"endTime":684.45,"body":"didn't have enough, a big enough"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":684.45,"endTime":685.29,"body":"budget anymore?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":687.91,"endTime":690.04,"body":"That's what they"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":687.91,"endTime":690.04,"body":"weren't talking about it. They"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":690.04,"endTime":694.06,"body":"weren't talking about the why"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":690.04,"endTime":694.06,"body":"they were just talking about the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":694.06,"endTime":697.42,"body":"reality. And so listening to it,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":694.06,"endTime":697.42,"body":"that was my question. I was"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":697.42,"endTime":701.05,"body":"like, Whoa, what's happening?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":697.42,"endTime":701.05,"body":"Why is this happening? So doing"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":701.05,"endTime":702.82,"body":"a little research with`"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":701.05,"endTime":702.82,"body":"colleagues and libraries and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":702.82,"endTime":707.05,"body":"trying to figure out what was"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":702.82,"endTime":707.05,"body":"going on, it became clear that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":708.04,"endTime":711.97,"body":"it was largely because of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":708.04,"endTime":711.97,"body":"funding cuts. And if you're a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":711.97,"endTime":714.7,"body":"librarian and you're dealing"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":711.97,"endTime":714.7,"body":"with a big institution, and a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":714.7,"endTime":717.25,"body":"big library and a big"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":714.7,"endTime":717.25,"body":"collection, and your"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":717.25,"endTime":722.02,"body":"acquisitions, money is going"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":717.25,"endTime":722.02,"body":"down, the easiest place to cut"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":722.08,"endTime":726.52,"body":"is at the top, the most"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":722.08,"endTime":726.52,"body":"expensive books, because that's"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":726.52,"endTime":730.87,"body":"the least number of books that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":726.52,"endTime":730.87,"body":"you cut, right. And so, you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":730.87,"endTime":736.36,"body":"know, a few years into Radius,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":730.87,"endTime":736.36,"body":"there was a a librarian who"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":736.36,"endTime":740.05,"body":"oversaw most of the states"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":736.36,"endTime":740.05,"body":"acquisitions budget for a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":740.05,"endTime":743.71,"body":"library and ended up it was,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":740.05,"endTime":743.71,"body":"when we started, it was"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":743.71,"endTime":746.05,"body":"sometimes difficult to get"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":743.71,"endTime":746.05,"body":"librarians attention and say,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":746.05,"endTime":748.33,"body":"This is what we're doing. And we"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":746.05,"endTime":748.33,"body":"really are wanting to give you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":748.39,"endTime":752.68,"body":"great books. But when we finally"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":748.39,"endTime":752.68,"body":"got her attention, she called me"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":752.68,"endTime":754.87,"body":"one day, and she said, I'm so"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":752.68,"endTime":754.87,"body":"sorry for taking a while to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":754.87,"endTime":756.49,"body":"understand what you're doing."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":754.87,"endTime":756.49,"body":"But you should probably"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":756.49,"endTime":760.33,"body":"understand that I have not added"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":756.49,"endTime":760.33,"body":"a single art book to the entire"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":760.33,"endTime":762.73,"body":"network of libraries in seven"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":760.33,"endTime":762.73,"body":"years."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":763.54,"endTime":765.43,"body":"Wow. Wow."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":766.11,"endTime":769.53,"body":"And so this idea"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":766.11,"endTime":769.53,"body":"that we were giving them books"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":769.53,"endTime":772.41,"body":"so that they could add them to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":769.53,"endTime":772.41,"body":"the network and giving them"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":772.41,"endTime":778.47,"body":"quality books, not leftover"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":772.41,"endTime":778.47,"body":"books. You know, was, was really"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":778.47,"endTime":783.06,"body":"good. But it was, you know, I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":778.47,"endTime":783.06,"body":"still remember when I went back"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":783.06,"endTime":787.77,"body":"to to, to Darius, and David and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":783.06,"endTime":787.77,"body":"Joanna and said, I think maybe"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":787.77,"endTime":791.28,"body":"this could be a nonprofit, they"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":787.77,"endTime":791.28,"body":"really did think I was kind of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":791.28,"endTime":795.96,"body":"crazy. And there have been many"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":791.28,"endTime":795.96,"body":"times over the years where I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":795.96,"endTime":800.94,"body":"still do think that this idea is"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":795.96,"endTime":800.94,"body":"pretty crazy. It makes so much"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":800.94,"endTime":804.99,"body":"sense in a way. It's also as you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":800.94,"endTime":804.99,"body":"can well imagine a huge amount"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":804.99,"endTime":805.29,"body":"of work."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":805.08,"endTime":809.258,"body":"Whoa, hard,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":805.08,"endTime":809.258,"body":"right? How much, in the kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":809.355,"endTime":815.088,"body":"work that Radius does, what"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":809.355,"endTime":815.088,"body":"percentage of time are you guys"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":815.185,"endTime":820.53,"body":"spending in resources on"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":815.185,"endTime":820.53,"body":"fundraising versus publishing?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":820.54,"endTime":823.6,"body":"For me, because"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":820.54,"endTime":823.6,"body":"that's a main part of my role."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":823.6,"endTime":830.05,"body":"So I, you know, I don't, I don't"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":823.6,"endTime":830.05,"body":"think in terms of titles, and we"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":830.11,"endTime":832.84,"body":"we work very closely as a team,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":830.11,"endTime":832.84,"body":"there are six of us on the team"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":832.84,"endTime":834.79,"body":"now at Radius. But in the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":832.84,"endTime":834.79,"body":"beginning, it was just, you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":834.79,"endTime":837.13,"body":"know, a very small group of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":834.79,"endTime":837.13,"body":"people, and we had no money to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":837.13,"endTime":842.77,"body":"pay anyone. And it took me two"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":837.13,"endTime":842.77,"body":"and a half years to get the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":842.77,"endTime":847.06,"body":"nonprofit status because of the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":842.77,"endTime":847.06,"body":"applications process with the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":847.06,"endTime":850.69,"body":"IRS. Yeah, my husband jokes with"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":847.06,"endTime":850.69,"body":"me, sometimes and says that I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":850.69,"endTime":853.87,"body":"got a degree in, you know, I got"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":850.69,"endTime":853.87,"body":"a master's degree in"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":853.87,"endTime":857.59,"body":"understanding not for profit"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":853.87,"endTime":857.59,"body":"law, because of the negotiations"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":857.59,"endTime":859.99,"body":"of going through and like"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":857.59,"endTime":859.99,"body":"dealing and going through all"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":859.99,"endTime":865.9,"body":"that process. Which was"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":859.99,"endTime":865.9,"body":"fascinating. I mean, just that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":865.99,"endTime":869.86,"body":"the history of that is so"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":865.99,"endTime":869.86,"body":"interesting, because Aperture is"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":869.86,"endTime":870.7,"body":"a nonprofit."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":871.69,"endTime":873.49,"body":"Yeah, what is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":871.69,"endTime":873.49,"body":"their..."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":873.87,"endTime":876.24,"body":"So, you know, if"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":873.87,"endTime":876.24,"body":"you think about what they do,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":876.24,"endTime":878.55,"body":"and they publish a magazine, and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":876.24,"endTime":878.55,"body":"they have an exhibition space,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":878.55,"endTime":882.24,"body":"and they have, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":878.55,"endTime":882.24,"body":"incredible history of publishing"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":882.66,"endTime":886.5,"body":"photo books, and they are"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":882.66,"endTime":886.5,"body":"structured as a nonprofit and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":886.5,"endTime":892.59,"body":"got that not for profit status,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":886.5,"endTime":892.59,"body":"what 60 plus years ago now? The"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":892.59,"endTime":895.32,"body":"fascinating thing about"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":892.59,"endTime":895.32,"body":"nonprofit law is that there is"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":895.32,"endTime":902.13,"body":"no precedent in IRS law. So you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":895.32,"endTime":902.13,"body":"can't go to the IRS and say, I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":902.13,"endTime":905.4,"body":"want to do exactly what Aperture"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":902.13,"endTime":905.4,"body":"is doing because they're a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":905.4,"endTime":909.54,"body":"nonprofit. And there's no"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":905.4,"endTime":909.54,"body":"precedent. So you can't use that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":909.54,"endTime":913.44,"body":"as an example. You can only say"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":909.54,"endTime":913.44,"body":"this is what I want to do. And"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":913.44,"endTime":918.42,"body":"then your case is judged on the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":913.44,"endTime":918.42,"body":"merits of your case, regardless"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":918.42,"endTime":920.31,"body":"of what has happened in the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":918.42,"endTime":920.31,"body":"past."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":920.82,"endTime":924.42,"body":"Wow. So you were"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":920.82,"endTime":924.42,"body":"getting a lot of pushback or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":924.42,"endTime":925.32,"body":"rejection?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":925.35,"endTime":929.91,"body":"Yeah, what the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":925.35,"endTime":929.91,"body":"IRS agent that got assigned our"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":929.91,"endTime":934.41,"body":"case, I have multiple multiple"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":929.91,"endTime":934.41,"body":"conversations with her over the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":934.44,"endTime":939.57,"body":"time that it took. And one of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":934.44,"endTime":939.57,"body":"those conversations, she was"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":939.57,"endTime":943.86,"body":"concerned that we would end up"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":939.57,"endTime":943.86,"body":"publishing the next Harry"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":943.86,"endTime":948.24,"body":"Potter. That would sell millions"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":943.86,"endTime":948.24,"body":"of copies."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":948.48,"endTime":950.37,"body":"Yeah, likely."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":951.03,"endTime":955.56,"body":"And that just"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":951.03,"endTime":955.56,"body":"didn't jive with what she"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":955.56,"endTime":959.37,"body":"thought the nonprofit should be."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":955.56,"endTime":959.37,"body":"Now, there's never been an art"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":959.37,"endTime":961.98,"body":"book that sold like Harry"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":959.37,"endTime":961.98,"body":"Potter."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":962.31,"endTime":965.13,"body":"No, not even"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":962.31,"endTime":965.13,"body":"close."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":965.16,"endTime":968.7,"body":"Not even a tiny,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":965.16,"endTime":968.7,"body":"tiny fraction, right?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":968.7,"endTime":972.57,"body":"Yeah, it would"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":968.7,"endTime":972.57,"body":"have to literally do magic, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":972.57,"endTime":974.25,"body":"think for that. (laughs)"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":974.0,"endTime":978.95,"body":"So I mean, but"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":974.0,"endTime":978.95,"body":"but we did have to be careful to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":978.95,"endTime":983.09,"body":"write into the bylaws of the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":978.95,"endTime":983.09,"body":"organization to be sure that we"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":983.09,"endTime":989.12,"body":"were at least I mean, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":983.09,"endTime":989.12,"body":"I can see that it's the highly,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":989.66,"endTime":994.67,"body":"insanely improbable, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":989.66,"endTime":994.67,"body":"eventuality that something like"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":994.67,"endTime":997.85,"body":"that could happen, but it but we"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":994.67,"endTime":997.85,"body":"had to be clear as to how we"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":997.85,"endTime":1000.25,"body":"would handle that. If that did"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":997.85,"endTime":1000.25,"body":"happen. What what are you going"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1000.25,"endTime":1003.19,"body":"to do as a legitimate nonprofit"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1000.25,"endTime":1003.19,"body":"in the face of that? Of course,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1003.19,"endTime":1009.22,"body":"it's never been a problem. But I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1003.19,"endTime":1009.22,"body":"think it's, it is interesting,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1009.25,"endTime":1012.16,"body":"you know, to sort of back up and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1009.25,"endTime":1012.16,"body":"think about another really"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1012.16,"endTime":1015.52,"body":"interesting case, example is the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1012.16,"endTime":1015.52,"body":"University of California Press,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1015.85,"endTime":1022.3,"body":"which, as a lot of university"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1015.85,"endTime":1022.3,"body":"presses operate under the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1022.3,"endTime":1026.74,"body":"auspices of the university"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1022.3,"endTime":1026.74,"body":"itself, which is a nonprofit. So"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1026.74,"endTime":1031.39,"body":"they're sort of, by by proxy,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1026.74,"endTime":1031.39,"body":"they're nonprofits. But the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1031.39,"endTime":1035.35,"body":"University of California Press,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1031.39,"endTime":1035.35,"body":"if I get these details, right,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1035.38,"endTime":1038.41,"body":"is that and I don't now because"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1035.38,"endTime":1038.41,"body":"it's been a long time ago, now"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1038.41,"endTime":1041.86,"body":"remember the years but"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1038.41,"endTime":1041.86,"body":"essentially, the IRS came to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1041.86,"endTime":1045.76,"body":"them and said, we don't think"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1041.86,"endTime":1045.76,"body":"you are a nonprofit, you're"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1045.79,"endTime":1049.0,"body":"operating under the umbrella of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1045.79,"endTime":1049.0,"body":"the university, but we don't"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1049.0,"endTime":1051.43,"body":"think you should be we think you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1049.0,"endTime":1051.43,"body":"should be operating"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1051.43,"endTime":1058.03,"body":"independently. And, and not as a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1051.43,"endTime":1058.03,"body":"nonprofit. And so they did, they"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1058.03,"endTime":1061.84,"body":"pulled out the structural"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1058.03,"endTime":1061.84,"body":"organization of the University"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1061.84,"endTime":1065.2,"body":"of California Press, and for"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1061.84,"endTime":1065.2,"body":"some period of time, operated"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1065.2,"endTime":1068.26,"body":"independently, at which point"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1065.2,"endTime":1068.26,"body":"whoever was operating it, and I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1068.26,"endTime":1071.14,"body":"don't know for sure whether they"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1068.26,"endTime":1071.14,"body":"went back to the IRS or the IRS"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1071.14,"endTime":1074.53,"body":"came back to them. But they"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1071.14,"endTime":1074.53,"body":"ended up going back to being"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1074.53,"endTime":1075.94,"body":"structured as a nonprofit."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1076.29,"endTime":1077.94,"body":"It's not"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1076.29,"endTime":1077.94,"body":"sustainable otherwise."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1077.93,"endTime":1081.592,"body":"Because it's not sustainable,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1077.93,"endTime":1081.592,"body":"cynically, right? So it's, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1081.653,"endTime":1085.437,"body":"know, it, it does make a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1081.653,"endTime":1085.437,"body":"sense. But I'm sorry, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1085.498,"endTime":1089.161,"body":"really answer your question,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1085.498,"endTime":1089.161,"body":"which is how much of my time do"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1089.222,"endTime":1092.03,"body":"I spend fundraising, which is,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1089.222,"endTime":1092.03,"body":"which is a lot."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1093.17,"endTime":1096.17,"body":"Do you find that most of your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1093.17,"endTime":1096.17,"body":"funders are, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1096.17,"endTime":1099.35,"body":"people that are interested in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1096.17,"endTime":1099.35,"body":"supporting the projects are they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1099.35,"endTime":1104.33,"body":"more interested in it because of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1099.35,"endTime":1104.33,"body":"the library donation aspect or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1104.33,"endTime":1105.47,"body":"supporting artists?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1107.54,"endTime":1109.73,"body":"It varies, I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1107.54,"endTime":1109.73,"body":"mean, donors have different"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1110.33,"endTime":1116.72,"body":"priorities. Foundations have"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1110.33,"endTime":1116.72,"body":"different priorities in terms of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1116.72,"endTime":1120.95,"body":"what their identities are, and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1116.72,"endTime":1120.95,"body":"what they want to be tied to. I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1120.95,"endTime":1125.75,"body":"always thought, from the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1120.95,"endTime":1125.75,"body":"beginning that this mission of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1125.75,"endTime":1129.5,"body":"schools and libraries,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1125.75,"endTime":1129.5,"body":"specifically rural libraries,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1129.68,"endTime":1135.8,"body":"urban libraries, underserved"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1129.68,"endTime":1135.8,"body":"libraries, would be a compelling"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1135.83,"endTime":1140.24,"body":"reason for people to want to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1135.83,"endTime":1140.24,"body":"support what we do. And in"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1140.24,"endTime":1145.52,"body":"truth, from the beginning, it's"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1140.24,"endTime":1145.52,"body":"generally been a bit more"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1145.52,"endTime":1148.82,"body":"straightforward to get people"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1145.52,"endTime":1148.82,"body":"excited about the projects"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1148.82,"endTime":1154.58,"body":"themselves. They love that work,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1148.82,"endTime":1154.58,"body":"or they love the idea of that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1154.58,"endTime":1159.08,"body":"work being shared. Or they're"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1154.58,"endTime":1159.08,"body":"intrigued by the ideas and the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1159.08,"endTime":1163.67,"body":"concepts of what the artists are"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1159.08,"endTime":1163.67,"body":"working on. To give money"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1163.67,"endTime":1168.05,"body":"towards something more"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1163.67,"endTime":1168.05,"body":"abstracted, like donating books"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1168.26,"endTime":1172.85,"body":"to these institutions has always"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1168.26,"endTime":1172.85,"body":"been harder to fundraise for."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1173.84,"endTime":1176.69,"body":"And so you see,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1173.84,"endTime":1176.69,"body":"we spend a lot of time and then"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1176.69,"endTime":1181.25,"body":"the artists benefit because they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1176.69,"endTime":1181.25,"body":"are not having to do their own"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1181.25,"endTime":1186.05,"body":"fundraising or bring their own"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1181.25,"endTime":1186.05,"body":"finances to the table."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1186.53,"endTime":1189.32,"body":"They're involved."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1186.53,"endTime":1189.32,"body":"I mean, we you know, it's it's"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1191.33,"endTime":1195.17,"body":"it's definitely a group effort"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1191.33,"endTime":1195.17,"body":"for every single project we do."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1195.5,"endTime":1202.79,"body":"And I wish that there was more"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1195.5,"endTime":1202.79,"body":"of a standard roadmap. Let me"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1202.79,"endTime":1205.79,"body":"say okay, well, for these 20"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1202.79,"endTime":1205.79,"body":"books, we're going to do this"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1205.79,"endTime":1209.93,"body":"and it's going to work for all"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1205.79,"endTime":1209.93,"body":"20 of them. What works for one"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1209.93,"endTime":1214.01,"body":"may not work for another? I feel"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1209.93,"endTime":1214.01,"body":"like we kind of recreate the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1214.01,"endTime":1217.07,"body":"wheel every single time we go"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1214.01,"endTime":1217.07,"body":"through this, you know, it can"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1217.1,"endTime":1220.79,"body":"it can happen, in some cases"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1217.1,"endTime":1220.79,"body":"really quickly and easily. And"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1220.79,"endTime":1224.84,"body":"in other cases, it's really"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1220.79,"endTime":1224.84,"body":"difficult. I wish I could tell"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1224.84,"endTime":1227.48,"body":"you that when we begin every"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1224.84,"endTime":1227.48,"body":"project, how that's gonna go,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1227.48,"endTime":1231.44,"body":"but I can't it's you know, it's,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1227.48,"endTime":1231.44,"body":"you just have to, to work"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1231.44,"endTime":1232.01,"body":"through it."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1232.96,"endTime":1236.56,"body":"Do you modify"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1232.96,"endTime":1236.56,"body":"the design at all based on how"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1236.56,"endTime":1240.31,"body":"much money you think you can..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1236.56,"endTime":1240.31,"body":"I mean, Radius makes... they're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1240.31,"endTime":1243.94,"body":"all gorgeous books, but they're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1240.31,"endTime":1243.94,"body":"large and a lot of pages. I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1243.94,"endTime":1247.75,"body":"mean, thinking back to Meghann"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1243.94,"endTime":1247.75,"body":"Riepenhoff's first book. That"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1247.75,"endTime":1249.31,"body":"was massive!"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1250.62,"endTime":1253.47,"body":"I think saying,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1250.62,"endTime":1253.47,"body":"one of the things is that I from"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1253.47,"endTime":1255.24,"body":"the beginning, when I'm meeting"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1253.47,"endTime":1255.24,"body":"with an artist, and we're"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1255.24,"endTime":1260.16,"body":"talking about the project, it's"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1255.24,"endTime":1260.16,"body":"it's this, it's this idea that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1260.16,"endTime":1264.9,"body":"our mission is really to, to, to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1260.16,"endTime":1264.9,"body":"create a platform that is about"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1264.93,"endTime":1269.94,"body":"their vision, right? What is the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1264.93,"endTime":1269.94,"body":"book they envision? Not? Not,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1269.97,"endTime":1273.57,"body":"not the book we envision, but"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1269.97,"endTime":1273.57,"body":"what is it? What is it that they"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1273.57,"endTime":1278.67,"body":"think is going to find the best"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1273.57,"endTime":1278.67,"body":"platform for their work? And,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1279.0,"endTime":1281.28,"body":"and that does mean, sometimes"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1279.0,"endTime":1281.28,"body":"when you're dealing with"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1281.28,"endTime":1285.93,"body":"complicated bodies of work, or"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1281.28,"endTime":1285.93,"body":"with, you know, that we want to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1285.93,"endTime":1289.5,"body":"go as far as we can, yeah, take"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1285.93,"endTime":1289.5,"body":"advantage of the book form as"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1289.5,"endTime":1294.0,"body":"much as possible. What can a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1289.5,"endTime":1294.0,"body":"book do? I mean, if, if, if"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1294.0,"endTime":1297.69,"body":"we're like an art museum, or,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1294.0,"endTime":1297.69,"body":"and we're traveling version of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1297.69,"endTime":1302.73,"body":"one, you know, we can't do"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1297.69,"endTime":1302.73,"body":"what's what's so amazing about"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1302.73,"endTime":1305.82,"body":"museums and institutions, it's"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1302.73,"endTime":1305.82,"body":"not the real physical work, it"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1305.82,"endTime":1309.51,"body":"doesn't have that scale, we"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1305.82,"endTime":1309.51,"body":"can't include video and audio,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1309.51,"endTime":1313.02,"body":"and all these incredible things"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1309.51,"endTime":1313.02,"body":"that happen in museums now. But"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1313.17,"endTime":1317.22,"body":"books can do things that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1313.17,"endTime":1317.22,"body":"exhibitions can't. And, you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1317.22,"endTime":1321.51,"body":"know, they are these incredibly"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1317.22,"endTime":1321.51,"body":"intimate, generally speaking,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1321.51,"endTime":1326.13,"body":"one on one amazing things, and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1321.51,"endTime":1326.13,"body":"they have legs, they can go all"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1326.13,"endTime":1329.16,"body":"over the world and reach"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1326.13,"endTime":1329.16,"body":"hopefully, you know, much more"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1329.16,"endTime":1333.63,"body":"people than then what a, you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1329.16,"endTime":1333.63,"body":"know, what a what a brick and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1333.63,"endTime":1340.41,"body":"mortar building can do, right?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1333.63,"endTime":1340.41,"body":"So that's where we start. And so"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1340.41,"endTime":1344.28,"body":"it does mean that some of the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1340.41,"endTime":1344.28,"body":"books that we do get get"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1344.88,"endTime":1349.65,"body":"complicated or elaborate or, you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1344.88,"endTime":1349.65,"body":"know, and those are the kinds of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1349.65,"endTime":1353.22,"body":"things that, that, as a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1349.65,"endTime":1353.22,"body":"publisher, as an organization,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1353.22,"endTime":1359.79,"body":"we really try not to compromise"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1353.22,"endTime":1359.79,"body":"on, if we can.  Now, we're very"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1359.79,"endTime":1364.05,"body":"well versed at working within"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1359.79,"endTime":1364.05,"body":"budgets. And we have to all the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1364.05,"endTime":1370.74,"body":"time, every day. But, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1364.05,"endTime":1370.74,"body":"I tend to say when I'm meeting"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1370.74,"endTime":1372.63,"body":"with an artist, and we're"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1370.74,"endTime":1372.63,"body":"starting the conversation, that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1372.63,"endTime":1377.22,"body":"the things that I don't want to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1372.63,"endTime":1377.22,"body":"compromise are division of the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1377.22,"endTime":1380.82,"body":"project, the paper that we print"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1377.22,"endTime":1380.82,"body":"on, the quality of the printing,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1380.82,"endTime":1384.69,"body":"the quality of the binding, just"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1380.82,"endTime":1384.69,"body":"just making a really great"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1384.72,"endTime":1391.29,"body":"object. But we can compromise on"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1384.72,"endTime":1391.29,"body":"things like how, how big is the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1391.29,"endTime":1393.72,"body":"book? You know, if if an artist"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1391.29,"endTime":1393.72,"body":"comes to us, and they really"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1393.72,"endTime":1398.79,"body":"wanted 80 images in a book, but"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1393.72,"endTime":1398.79,"body":"budget wise, we can only include"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1399.99,"endTime":1403.26,"body":"60, but keep the paper and keep"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1399.99,"endTime":1403.26,"body":"the binding and keep to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1403.26,"endTime":1408.03,"body":"everything else, that feels like"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1403.26,"endTime":1408.03,"body":"a difficult, but worthy"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1408.03,"endTime":1412.32,"body":"compromise. And we also made"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1408.03,"endTime":1412.32,"body":"print fewer copies at the end of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1412.32,"endTime":1418.29,"body":"the day, because we're not for"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1412.32,"endTime":1418.29,"body":"profit, we don't exist on the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1418.29,"endTime":1423.72,"body":"money from the sale of the book"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1418.29,"endTime":1423.72,"body":"in any way. So if we make enough"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1423.72,"endTime":1426.27,"body":"copies of the book that goes to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1423.72,"endTime":1426.27,"body":"the donor, you know, we"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1426.84,"endTime":1429.78,"body":"published a book not very long"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1426.84,"endTime":1429.78,"body":"ago, a few years ago, and it"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1429.78,"endTime":1434.1,"body":"sold out really quickly and it"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1429.78,"endTime":1434.1,"body":"sparked this conversation among"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1434.1,"endTime":1439.77,"body":"my, my board members about what"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1434.1,"endTime":1439.77,"body":"is a success for us as"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1439.77,"endTime":1444.45,"body":"publishers with a book? And with"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1439.77,"endTime":1444.45,"body":"a for profit publisher a success"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1444.45,"endTime":1447.09,"body":"is a book that goes into a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1444.45,"endTime":1447.09,"body":"second and a third and a fourth,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1447.33,"endTime":1451.38,"body":"you know, Harry Potter like"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1447.33,"endTime":1451.38,"body":"printing, right? Just keep going"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1451.38,"endTime":1453.87,"body":"and going and sell as many"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1451.38,"endTime":1453.87,"body":"copies as possible. That is a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1453.87,"endTime":1459.99,"body":"success. And with us, that's"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1453.87,"endTime":1459.99,"body":"where you can kind of turn that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1459.99,"endTime":1463.89,"body":"model on its head because, okay,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1459.99,"endTime":1463.89,"body":"let's say we sell, if we if we"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1463.89,"endTime":1466.8,"body":"make enough copies of the book,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1463.89,"endTime":1466.8,"body":"to go to the donation program to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1466.8,"endTime":1469.89,"body":"fulfill our obligations to those"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1466.8,"endTime":1469.89,"body":"schools and into those libraries"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1470.37,"endTime":1474.48,"body":"and it goes out to the artist"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1470.37,"endTime":1474.48,"body":"and it goes out to enough people"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1474.48,"endTime":1477.18,"body":"to give the artist because I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1474.48,"endTime":1477.18,"body":"think that's also part of our"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1477.18,"endTime":1482.07,"body":"mission. It's also books that go"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1477.18,"endTime":1482.07,"body":"out to an audience of people"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1482.07,"endTime":1484.62,"body":"that care about it is part of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1482.07,"endTime":1484.62,"body":"that mission. It's getting their"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1484.62,"endTime":1490.11,"body":"work out there in the world. But"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1484.62,"endTime":1490.11,"body":"if it goes out and sells out"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1490.11,"endTime":1495.72,"body":"relatively quickly, that that is"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1490.11,"endTime":1495.72,"body":"a version of success for us"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1495.72,"endTime":1499.14,"body":"because we don't have to go"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1495.72,"endTime":1499.14,"body":"through the orchestration of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1499.14,"endTime":1503.91,"body":"printing it again. Very often"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1499.14,"endTime":1503.91,"body":"I'd rather have a conversation"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1503.91,"endTime":1506.76,"body":"with an artist about what their"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1503.91,"endTime":1506.76,"body":"next project is, and use the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1506.76,"endTime":1510.03,"body":"resources and the money on that,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1506.76,"endTime":1510.03,"body":"then to have more copies of the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1510.03,"endTime":1510.78,"body":"book that we worked on."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1510.78,"endTime":1513.48,"body":"Well especially"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1510.78,"endTime":1513.48,"body":"if you think about the, the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1513.48,"endTime":1518.28,"body":"library side of things, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1513.48,"endTime":1518.28,"body":"you're taking time and resources"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1518.28,"endTime":1521.28,"body":"away from a new project you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1518.28,"endTime":1521.28,"body":"could be doing and giving them"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1521.28,"endTime":1524.19,"body":"more books, you know, to reprint"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1521.28,"endTime":1524.19,"body":"the same one that they already"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1524.19,"endTime":1534.21,"body":"have. That's interesting.  Um, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1524.19,"endTime":1534.21,"body":"was just gonna shift gears a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1534.21,"endTime":1537.57,"body":"little bit, I know that Radius"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1534.21,"endTime":1537.57,"body":"is committed to a balanced"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1537.6,"endTime":1541.95,"body":"catalogue. And I've always"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1537.6,"endTime":1541.95,"body":"really, personally appreciated"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1541.95,"endTime":1546.42,"body":"the large number of female"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1541.95,"endTime":1546.42,"body":"artists that you publish. And I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1546.45,"endTime":1551.07,"body":"was curious of the commitment to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1546.45,"endTime":1551.07,"body":"balance extended to other areas"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1551.07,"endTime":1554.91,"body":"like race and established versus"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1551.07,"endTime":1554.91,"body":"not establish, and different"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1554.91,"endTime":1562.14,"body":"artistic mediums like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1554.91,"endTime":1562.14,"body":"where are you trying to create a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1562.14,"endTime":1564.15,"body":"balanced catalog? In what areas?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1565.2,"endTime":1567.45,"body":"Yeah, those"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1565.2,"endTime":1567.45,"body":"things don't happen unless you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1567.57,"endTime":1569.34,"body":"are conscious of them and focus"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1567.57,"endTime":1569.34,"body":"on them."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1569.64,"endTime":1570.45,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1569.64,"endTime":1570.45,"body":"absolutely."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1570.81,"endTime":1575.82,"body":"From from the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1570.81,"endTime":1575.82,"body":"beginning. I was very conscious"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1576.6,"endTime":1581.37,"body":"that, and it's still, even"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1576.6,"endTime":1581.37,"body":"though I mean, this is going"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1581.37,"endTime":1586.83,"body":"back 14, 15, 16 years ago,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1581.37,"endTime":1586.83,"body":"feeling very much at that time"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1586.83,"endTime":1591.42,"body":"that the art world was way too"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1586.83,"endTime":1591.42,"body":"white male dominated. I remember"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1591.42,"endTime":1595.11,"body":"giving a talk two or three years"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1591.42,"endTime":1595.11,"body":"into Radius and talking about"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1595.11,"endTime":1599.01,"body":"this idea of what diversity"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1595.11,"endTime":1599.01,"body":"meant, or what it meant to get"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1599.01,"endTime":1601.95,"body":"away from that basic concept."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1599.01,"endTime":1601.95,"body":"Not that there aren't, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1601.98,"endTime":1605.13,"body":"incredible and amazing white"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1601.98,"endTime":1605.13,"body":"male artists, it's just that we"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1605.13,"endTime":1611.28,"body":"need to be thinking of how do"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1605.13,"endTime":1611.28,"body":"you stem that? How do you how do"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1611.28,"endTime":1617.94,"body":"you break that cycle? And, and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1611.28,"endTime":1617.94,"body":"one of the, one of the people in"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1617.94,"endTime":1620.49,"body":"the audience for that talk that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1617.94,"endTime":1620.49,"body":"I was giving had a catalog of a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1620.49,"endTime":1624.72,"body":"really great publisher happened"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1620.49,"endTime":1624.72,"body":"to have it in their bag, and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1624.72,"endTime":1627.42,"body":"they had pulled it out and there"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1624.72,"endTime":1627.42,"body":"were 60 books in their catalog."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1628.74,"endTime":1630.51,"body":"And one was with a woman."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1632.28,"endTime":1633.24,"body":"Whoa, that's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1632.28,"endTime":1633.24,"body":"insane."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1633.0,"endTime":1636.06,"body":"And that was it."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1633.0,"endTime":1636.06,"body":"I mean, yeah, that was the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1636.06,"endTime":1642.72,"body":"diversity. And, and so very much"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1636.06,"endTime":1642.72,"body":"from the beginning, we were"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1642.72,"endTime":1645.96,"body":"trying to publish equal amounts"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1642.72,"endTime":1645.96,"body":"of men and women at the very"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1645.96,"endTime":1649.89,"body":"least, and in the beginning,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1645.96,"endTime":1649.89,"body":"that could be I remember having"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1649.89,"endTime":1653.31,"body":"board meetings, sitting and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1649.89,"endTime":1653.31,"body":"talking and having presentations"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1653.31,"endTime":1655.74,"body":"of people who had submitted"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1653.31,"endTime":1655.74,"body":"projects to us. And there was a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1656.01,"endTime":1661.86,"body":"vast minority of people who were"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1656.01,"endTime":1661.86,"body":"more diverse. Women who are of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1661.86,"endTime":1665.61,"body":"different races, who are from"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1661.86,"endTime":1665.61,"body":"different, you know, places,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1665.61,"endTime":1670.11,"body":"even in the world, and having to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1665.61,"endTime":1670.11,"body":"try to make decisions and focus"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1670.11,"endTime":1673.68,"body":"on that as a priority and yet,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1670.11,"endTime":1673.68,"body":"try to build that. Because if"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1673.68,"endTime":1676.65,"body":"you're not consciously trying to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1673.68,"endTime":1676.65,"body":"build an advocate for those"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1676.65,"endTime":1679.65,"body":"people, to either come to you,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1676.65,"endTime":1679.65,"body":"or you're searching for them, or"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1679.65,"endTime":1683.7,"body":"you're doing whatever, then it"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1679.65,"endTime":1683.7,"body":"doesn't happen. So I think, you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1683.7,"endTime":1686.1,"body":"know, at some point, around four"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1683.7,"endTime":1686.1,"body":"or five years into Radius it"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1686.1,"endTime":1692.97,"body":"sort of started, I noticed the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1686.1,"endTime":1692.97,"body":"shift. And then we were getting"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1692.97,"endTime":1695.76,"body":"so many more proposals from"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1692.97,"endTime":1695.76,"body":"women."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1696.15,"endTime":1696.93,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1696.15,"endTime":1696.93,"body":"wonderful."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1696.93,"endTime":1698.43,"body":"And we were"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1696.93,"endTime":1698.43,"body":"publishing more women. And it"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1698.43,"endTime":1702.69,"body":"was really starting to make a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1698.43,"endTime":1702.69,"body":"dynamic difference in terms of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1702.69,"endTime":1706.65,"body":"how we go about. Now at this"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1702.69,"endTime":1706.65,"body":"stage for Radius, it's about how"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1706.65,"endTime":1711.06,"body":"does that go even deeper and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1706.65,"endTime":1711.06,"body":"farther and broader, we have not"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1711.06,"endTime":1715.05,"body":"published as big a diversity, a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1711.06,"endTime":1715.05,"body":"racial diversity and ethnic"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1715.05,"endTime":1722.52,"body":"diversity of artists as I want"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1715.05,"endTime":1722.52,"body":"us to. And we're making greater"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1722.52,"endTime":1725.49,"body":"strides in that, but it's the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1722.52,"endTime":1725.49,"body":"same kind of direct efforts."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1725.49,"endTime":1730.26,"body":"And, and it takes time. You have"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1725.49,"endTime":1730.26,"body":"to search for them. I've started"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1730.26,"endTime":1735.06,"body":"an initiative in the last three"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1730.26,"endTime":1735.06,"body":"or four years of trying to build"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1735.09,"endTime":1740.79,"body":"specifically endowments for"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1735.09,"endTime":1740.79,"body":"specific kinds of books, books"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1740.79,"endTime":1745.44,"body":"that deal with social justice,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1740.79,"endTime":1745.44,"body":"or racial issues or specific"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1745.44,"endTime":1750.66,"body":"kinds of things. So that then"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1745.44,"endTime":1750.66,"body":"not only are we ready funded for"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1750.66,"endTime":1755.13,"body":"those books, but then we can"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1750.66,"endTime":1755.13,"body":"proactively go out and find the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1755.13,"endTime":1759.87,"body":"projects as opposed to having"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1755.13,"endTime":1759.87,"body":"any kind of reliance on those"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1759.87,"endTime":1763.14,"body":"projects coming to us because I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1759.87,"endTime":1763.14,"body":"don't think they happen if"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1763.17,"endTime":1766.83,"body":"you're not looking for them and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1763.17,"endTime":1766.83,"body":"trying for them and, and sort of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1767.1,"endTime":1768.66,"body":"figuring out ways to make it"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1767.1,"endTime":1768.66,"body":"happen."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1769.08,"endTime":1771.93,"body":"Yeah, I agree"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1769.08,"endTime":1771.93,"body":"with that. Do most of your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1771.93,"endTime":1773.97,"body":"projects come from submissions?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1774.29,"endTime":1780.02,"body":"They used to,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1774.29,"endTime":1780.02,"body":"that's changing. You know, it"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1780.05,"endTime":1783.47,"body":"wasn't it wasn't really just"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1780.05,"endTime":1783.47,"body":"submissions, but it was, it was"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1783.59,"endTime":1788.48,"body":"that sort of link of you would"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1783.59,"endTime":1788.48,"body":"do a project with one artist who"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1788.48,"endTime":1790.91,"body":"would recommend to another"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1788.48,"endTime":1790.91,"body":"artist that they knew or to a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1790.91,"endTime":1795.17,"body":"curator, or it was this organic"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1790.91,"endTime":1795.17,"body":"sort of linkage that was"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1795.17,"endTime":1798.8,"body":"happening, which is beautiful in"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1795.17,"endTime":1798.8,"body":"a way. I think one of the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1798.8,"endTime":1802.19,"body":"amazing things about Radius is"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1798.8,"endTime":1802.19,"body":"it's felt very much at times,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1802.19,"endTime":1805.19,"body":"like we've been building this"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1802.19,"endTime":1805.19,"body":"family, this this really"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1805.19,"endTime":1810.05,"body":"extended group of people who are"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1805.19,"endTime":1810.05,"body":"really divergent in terms of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1810.05,"endTime":1814.1,"body":"their practice, because we don't"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1810.05,"endTime":1814.1,"body":"just publish photography. We've"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1814.1,"endTime":1817.94,"body":"always wanted - my background"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1814.1,"endTime":1817.94,"body":"was an art and and as I think"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1818.03,"endTime":1820.52,"body":"you and a lot of people"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1818.03,"endTime":1820.52,"body":"listening will know that Darius"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1820.55,"endTime":1824.63,"body":"Himes, who's now at Christie's"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1820.55,"endTime":1824.63,"body":"was hugely, his background was"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1824.63,"endTime":1827.18,"body":"in photography. And even though"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1824.63,"endTime":1827.18,"body":"I, I studied at Sussex"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1827.18,"endTime":1829.16,"body":"University in the history of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1827.18,"endTime":1829.16,"body":"photography, and I knew a lot of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1829.16,"endTime":1832.55,"body":"photography, I think that, that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1829.16,"endTime":1832.55,"body":"in the very beginning was very"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1832.55,"endTime":1835.97,"body":"much, you know, that sort of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1832.55,"endTime":1835.97,"body":"identity between the two of us."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1836.84,"endTime":1839.63,"body":"And I was never going to let go"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1836.84,"endTime":1839.63,"body":"of this idea that as an art book"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1839.63,"endTime":1842.18,"body":"publisher, you should be"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1839.63,"endTime":1842.18,"body":"publishing what is photography"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1842.18,"endTime":1845.45,"body":"as art, just like every other"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1842.18,"endTime":1845.45,"body":"kind of art. It's not a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1845.45,"endTime":1849.74,"body":"ghettoized thing. It's just a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1845.45,"endTime":1849.74,"body":"part of what you do, right? And"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1849.86,"endTime":1853.79,"body":"the reality is that, that that's"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1849.86,"endTime":1853.79,"body":"not that true in the publishing"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1853.79,"endTime":1858.38,"body":"world now. You don't find many"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1853.79,"endTime":1858.38,"body":"art book publishers that publish"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1858.41,"endTime":1861.08,"body":"photography and art of other"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1858.41,"endTime":1861.08,"body":"media, they mostly do one or the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1861.08,"endTime":1867.26,"body":"other. And so I find that a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1861.08,"endTime":1867.26,"body":"little odd, but that's also"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1867.26,"endTime":1872.3,"body":"taken effort, but this concept"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1867.26,"endTime":1872.3,"body":"of this family is that then it"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1872.3,"endTime":1874.67,"body":"brings all of these different"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1872.3,"endTime":1874.67,"body":"kinds of people from different"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1874.67,"endTime":1880.73,"body":"kinds of worlds together. But it"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1874.67,"endTime":1880.73,"body":"also leads to, you know, we've"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1880.73,"endTime":1883.55,"body":"now published 180 titles"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1883.82,"endTime":1884.93,"body":"Wow..., thats so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1883.82,"endTime":1884.93,"body":"great."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1884.72,"endTime":1887.286,"body":"It's kind of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1884.72,"endTime":1887.286,"body":"surprising when I say it"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1887.356,"endTime":1891.379,"body":"sometimes, but we've published"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1887.356,"endTime":1891.379,"body":"work with really incredible"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1891.448,"endTime":1895.611,"body":"people. And most of the people"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1891.448,"endTime":1895.611,"body":"that we publish with not all,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1895.68,"endTime":1899.703,"body":"but most of them are living"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1895.68,"endTime":1899.703,"body":"artists. And once you've built"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1899.773,"endTime":1903.796,"body":"that relationship, and you've"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1899.773,"endTime":1903.796,"body":"worked 2, 3, 4 years to do a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1903.866,"endTime":1907.82,"body":"project with them, when they"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1903.866,"endTime":1907.82,"body":"come back to you, and two or"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1907.889,"endTime":1912.19,"body":"three more years, and they want"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1907.889,"endTime":1912.19,"body":"to do another project and they"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1912.259,"endTime":1916.352,"body":"do incredible work, then you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1912.259,"endTime":1916.352,"body":"want to be able to accommodate"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1916.421,"endTime":1920.445,"body":"that. But the math, the math"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1916.421,"endTime":1920.445,"body":"starts to not work. So that's"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1920.514,"endTime":1924.399,"body":"part of where we are to is"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1920.514,"endTime":1924.399,"body":"understanding like, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1924.468,"endTime":1928.422,"body":"that natural kind of, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1924.468,"endTime":1928.422,"body":"and maybe to the point of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1928.492,"endTime":1932.793,"body":"diversity, the problem with that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1928.492,"endTime":1932.793,"body":"scenario is that it stays too"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1932.862,"endTime":1937.163,"body":"insular. You're not breaking out"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1932.862,"endTime":1937.163,"body":"of the network, the bubble of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1937.232,"endTime":1941.741,"body":"whatever analogy you want to use"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1937.232,"endTime":1941.741,"body":"of, of the people that you know,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1941.811,"endTime":1946.042,"body":"if you do that. So, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1941.811,"endTime":1946.042,"body":"yes, it's important to continue"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1946.112,"endTime":1950.274,"body":"those relationships. And yes, I,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1946.112,"endTime":1950.274,"body":"you know, we have published"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1950.343,"endTime":1954.02,"body":"multiple titles with similar"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1950.343,"endTime":1954.02,"body":"artists, but and we will"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1954.089,"endTime":1958.182,"body":"continue to do that too. But"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1954.089,"endTime":1958.182,"body":"it's important to be conscious"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1958.251,"endTime":1959.57,"body":"of what that means."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1960.38,"endTime":1963.35,"body":"Yeah. To be"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1960.38,"endTime":1963.35,"body":"intentional, to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1963.35,"endTime":1967.52,"body":"you're bringing in new people,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1963.35,"endTime":1967.52,"body":"and kind of diversifying as"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1967.52,"endTime":1967.79,"body":"well."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1968.09,"endTime":1971.12,"body":"Yeah, across"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1968.09,"endTime":1971.12,"body":"Radius in terms of our staff, in"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1971.12,"endTime":1973.55,"body":"terms of our board, in terms of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1971.12,"endTime":1973.55,"body":"the people we publish all of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1973.55,"endTime":1978.23,"body":"that. It's endemic to every part"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1973.55,"endTime":1978.23,"body":"of the organization."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1979.76,"endTime":1982.49,"body":"Of all the photo"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1979.76,"endTime":1982.49,"body":"books that you've worked on with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1982.49,"endTime":1985.1,"body":"Radius, can you tell us about a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1982.49,"endTime":1985.1,"body":"couple of your favorite"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1985.1,"endTime":1987.95,"body":"experiences? And what made them"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1985.1,"endTime":1987.95,"body":"so meaningful to you?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1990.5,"endTime":1992.63,"body":"The impossible"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1990.5,"endTime":1992.63,"body":"question to answer."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1994.85,"endTime":1996.2,"body":"Who is your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":1994.85,"endTime":1996.2,"body":"favorite? (laughs)"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1996.36,"endTime":2000.77,"body":"Yeah, exactly,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":1996.36,"endTime":2000.77,"body":"who is my favorite? It's"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2000.77,"endTime":2005.66,"body":"interesting. I do get asked that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2000.77,"endTime":2005.66,"body":"question a lot. I'm fascinated"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2005.66,"endTime":2011.27,"body":"by.... I don't... And I really"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2005.66,"endTime":2011.27,"body":"do honestly, believe I don't"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2011.27,"endTime":2017.42,"body":"really have favorites. I think"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2011.27,"endTime":2017.42,"body":"our job as a publisher is really"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2017.42,"endTime":2022.55,"body":"to channel the work in a way to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2017.42,"endTime":2022.55,"body":"figure out a way to find its own"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2022.58,"endTime":2026.78,"body":"kind of voice. And as a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2022.58,"endTime":2026.78,"body":"designer, I've never been"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2026.78,"endTime":2031.94,"body":"very... I've never taken a lot"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2026.78,"endTime":2031.94,"body":"of ownership of my work, because"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2031.94,"endTime":2035.09,"body":"I think it is so collaborative,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2031.94,"endTime":2035.09,"body":"and it is so you know, I think"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2035.09,"endTime":2038.12,"body":"the books are only as good as"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2035.09,"endTime":2038.12,"body":"the work we publish."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2038.78,"endTime":2041.18,"body":"Yeah, you're not"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2038.78,"endTime":2041.18,"body":"a magician."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2041.0,"endTime":2044.84,"body":"Yeah, we're not."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2041.0,"endTime":2044.84,"body":"You know, some of the books that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2044.84,"endTime":2053.12,"body":"we've done that, I think for me"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2044.84,"endTime":2053.12,"body":"personally, that are a little"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2053.12,"endTime":2058.04,"body":"different, maybe in their origin"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2053.12,"endTime":2058.04,"body":"or the way that they happened. I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2058.04,"endTime":2059.96,"body":"don't know if you saw a book"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2058.04,"endTime":2059.96,"body":"that we published a few years"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2059.96,"endTime":2064.46,"body":"ago that's on a collection of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2059.96,"endTime":2064.46,"body":"black dolls. It's a private"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2064.46,"endTime":2067.79,"body":"collection of a woman named"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2064.46,"endTime":2067.79,"body":"Deborah Neff, who came to us and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2067.79,"endTime":2072.71,"body":"said she had been collecting"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2067.79,"endTime":2072.71,"body":"these pieces for 30 years and a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2072.71,"endTime":2076.79,"body":"couple of museums that were"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2072.71,"endTime":2076.79,"body":"interested in, in, in showing"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2076.79,"endTime":2078.95,"body":"the work and thinking about"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2076.79,"endTime":2078.95,"body":"publication at the same time."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2080.09,"endTime":2082.67,"body":"And so this falls a little"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2080.09,"endTime":2082.67,"body":"outside of the realm of the kind"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2082.67,"endTime":2085.82,"body":"of thing that we typically"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2082.67,"endTime":2085.82,"body":"publish. But it is this this"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2085.82,"endTime":2088.13,"body":"personal collection, these are"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2085.82,"endTime":2088.13,"body":"mostly dolls that were made in"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2088.13,"endTime":2092.84,"body":"the late 19th and early 20th"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2088.13,"endTime":2092.84,"body":"century, mostly by slaves,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2092.87,"endTime":2096.71,"body":"mostly for the white children"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2092.87,"endTime":2096.71,"body":"that were in their charge."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2097.8,"endTime":2098.85,"body":"Ohhh, that's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2097.8,"endTime":2098.85,"body":"interesting"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2098.93,"endTime":2102.29,"body":"And they are"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2098.93,"endTime":2102.29,"body":"typically they're made with all"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2102.29,"endTime":2104.87,"body":"kinds of found materials, but"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2102.29,"endTime":2104.87,"body":"they're made with black cloth"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2104.93,"endTime":2112.67,"body":"and as objects just in terms of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2104.93,"endTime":2112.67,"body":"from a ethnographic and art"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2112.67,"endTime":2115.46,"body":"historical sort of perspective."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2112.67,"endTime":2115.46,"body":"They're amazing. I mean, they're"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2115.46,"endTime":2120.71,"body":"just these incredible things in"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2115.46,"endTime":2120.71,"body":"and of themselves. In addition,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2120.74,"endTime":2124.4,"body":"she had started collecting"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2120.74,"endTime":2124.4,"body":"photography of the era, because"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2124.4,"endTime":2130.07,"body":"she was very interested in what"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2124.4,"endTime":2130.07,"body":"people, how people held and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2130.07,"endTime":2136.67,"body":"thought and and, you know, lived"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2130.07,"endTime":2136.67,"body":"with these objects. So she had"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2136.67,"endTime":2139.46,"body":"found mostly she was looking for"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2136.67,"endTime":2139.46,"body":"photographs of children with"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2139.46,"endTime":2141.68,"body":"these dolls although she found a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2139.46,"endTime":2141.68,"body":"lot of photographs of adults as"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2141.68,"endTime":2144.95,"body":"well. So there's, there's a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2141.68,"endTime":2144.95,"body":"whole collection of photography,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2144.95,"endTime":2149.3,"body":"and you find a lot of a lot of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2144.95,"endTime":2149.3,"body":"these white children, mostly"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2149.3,"endTime":2152.0,"body":"girls, but a lot of these white"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2149.3,"endTime":2152.0,"body":"children holding these black"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2152.0,"endTime":2155.81,"body":"dolls in photographs at a time"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2152.0,"endTime":2155.81,"body":"when photography was such a, a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2155.81,"endTime":2162.17,"body":"moment of, of what you included"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2155.81,"endTime":2162.17,"body":"in a photograph, if a photograph"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2162.17,"endTime":2166.82,"body":"was taken of you was more"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2162.17,"endTime":2166.82,"body":"important then than it is now."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2166.82,"endTime":2168.92,"body":"Yeah, so much"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2166.82,"endTime":2168.92,"body":"precious. Yeah."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2169.74,"endTime":2171.84,"body":"So you know,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2169.74,"endTime":2171.84,"body":"really interesting this choice,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2171.84,"endTime":2175.59,"body":"or sometimes photographs of, of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2171.84,"endTime":2175.59,"body":"white children that would have a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2175.59,"endTime":2179.13,"body":"collection of white dolls with"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2175.59,"endTime":2179.13,"body":"these other black dolls included"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2179.13,"endTime":2182.82,"body":"in them. And then certainly"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2179.13,"endTime":2182.82,"body":"photographs of white children"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2182.82,"endTime":2187.17,"body":"holding white dolls. And then a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2182.82,"endTime":2187.17,"body":"few not as not as often, but"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2187.38,"endTime":2193.56,"body":"photographs of black children"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2187.38,"endTime":2193.56,"body":"holding white dolls. But at the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2193.56,"endTime":2196.44,"body":"time that we published the book,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2193.56,"endTime":2196.44,"body":"she had never been able to find"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2196.47,"endTime":2202.08,"body":"a photograph of a black child"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2196.47,"endTime":2202.08,"body":"holding a black doll. And that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2202.08,"endTime":2208.71,"body":"simple lack of imagery just says"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2202.08,"endTime":2208.71,"body":"so much about the endemic racism"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2208.71,"endTime":2212.52,"body":"in our country and about ideas"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2208.71,"endTime":2212.52,"body":"of identity and about, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2212.55,"endTime":2216.06,"body":"it just was such a powerful"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2212.55,"endTime":2216.06,"body":"concept to me. And the book,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2216.06,"endTime":2218.46,"body":"like I said, the book fell"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2216.06,"endTime":2218.46,"body":"outside the realm of the kinds"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2218.46,"endTime":2220.56,"body":"of things that we typically"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2218.46,"endTime":2220.56,"body":"published, and I presented it to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2220.56,"endTime":2223.62,"body":"the board and to my publications"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2220.56,"endTime":2223.62,"body":"committee, didn't have really"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2223.62,"endTime":2227.7,"body":"great images to share with them"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2223.62,"endTime":2227.7,"body":"and they rejected the project."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2230.22,"endTime":2232.44,"body":"Not because it wasn't a project"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2230.22,"endTime":2232.44,"body":"with merit, but because we had a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2232.44,"endTime":2235.8,"body":"lot of other great projects to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2232.44,"endTime":2235.8,"body":"review. And I just couldn't let"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2235.8,"endTime":2239.58,"body":"it go. And two or three days"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2235.8,"endTime":2239.58,"body":"later, went back to my board and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2239.58,"endTime":2243.36,"body":"wrote, sort of the first time"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2239.58,"endTime":2243.36,"body":"that I had done this, a sort of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2243.36,"endTime":2247.17,"body":"impassioned letter to my board"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2243.36,"endTime":2247.17,"body":"and said we have to publish"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2247.17,"endTime":2251.79,"body":"this. And we did, and they were"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2247.17,"endTime":2251.79,"body":"incredibly supportive. And at"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2251.79,"endTime":2255.03,"body":"the time that we released that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2251.79,"endTime":2255.03,"body":"book, and you know, within a few"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2255.03,"endTime":2257.58,"body":"months, it had sold more copies"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2255.03,"endTime":2257.58,"body":"of any book we had ever"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2257.58,"endTime":2258.24,"body":"published."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2258.51,"endTime":2259.89,"body":"Wow, really?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2259.93,"endTime":2263.89,"body":"Yeah. And really"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2259.93,"endTime":2263.89,"body":"did resonate really strongly,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2263.89,"endTime":2272.29,"body":"obviously, with the donation"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2263.89,"endTime":2272.29,"body":"program. So I don't know, I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2272.29,"endTime":2274.69,"body":"think that comes to mind just"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2272.29,"endTime":2274.69,"body":"because it took something"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2274.69,"endTime":2275.38,"body":"different."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2276.49,"endTime":2280.63,"body":"Did you have to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2276.49,"endTime":2280.63,"body":"get the dolls photographed?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2280.87,"endTime":2283.15,"body":"We did."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2283.57,"endTime":2288.58,"body":"There's lot of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2283.57,"endTime":2288.58,"body":"additional considerations and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2288.58,"endTime":2291.55,"body":"decisions to make too. You know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2288.58,"endTime":2291.55,"body":"how to photograph them and..."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2291.76,"endTime":2294.31,"body":"How to photograph"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2291.76,"endTime":2294.31,"body":"them, which ones to include of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2294.31,"endTime":2296.44,"body":"the collection? A project like"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2294.31,"endTime":2296.44,"body":"that, I think took us three"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2296.44,"endTime":2305.26,"body":"years to do. Some of these"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2296.44,"endTime":2305.26,"body":"projects are really more time"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2305.26,"endTime":2306.37,"body":"consuming than others."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2307.21,"endTime":2309.4,"body":"How long does"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2307.21,"endTime":2309.4,"body":"the project typically take on"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2309.85,"endTime":2310.63,"body":"average?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2312.82,"endTime":2315.01,"body":"Depends on the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2312.82,"endTime":2315.01,"body":"type of project, a lot of the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2315.01,"endTime":2318.7,"body":"projects can be accomplished"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2315.01,"endTime":2318.7,"body":"within a year of us committing"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2318.7,"endTime":2321.55,"body":"to them, but usually, those"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2318.7,"endTime":2321.55,"body":"projects, you know, are very far"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2321.55,"endTime":2324.25,"body":"advanced, by the time we start"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2321.55,"endTime":2324.25,"body":"the process of working with"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2324.25,"endTime":2328.51,"body":"them, and then taking them from"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2324.25,"endTime":2328.51,"body":"then to the final publication in"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2328.51,"endTime":2333.01,"body":"a year. That's about as fast as"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2328.51,"endTime":2333.01,"body":"we could ever do a project. It's"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2333.01,"endTime":2336.4,"body":"more typical that a project"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2333.01,"endTime":2336.4,"body":"takes a year and a half to two,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2337.18,"endTime":2340.27,"body":"you know, to really come to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2337.18,"endTime":2340.27,"body":"fruition. And then some projects"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2341.26,"endTime":2345.22,"body":"we published a Sol LeWitt book"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2341.26,"endTime":2345.22,"body":"last year, that took us five"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2345.22,"endTime":2349.15,"body":"years of research and the work"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2345.22,"endTime":2349.15,"body":"to do with it. We're going on"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2349.15,"endTime":2355.54,"body":"press in just a few weeks with"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2349.15,"endTime":2355.54,"body":"an Agnes Martin project. And"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2355.54,"endTime":2359.41,"body":"that project, really the germ of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2355.54,"endTime":2359.41,"body":"that project started eight years"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2359.41,"endTime":2365.08,"body":"ago. And so it took a really"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2359.41,"endTime":2365.08,"body":"long time for that project to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2365.08,"endTime":2368.5,"body":"really come to fruition. And"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2365.08,"endTime":2368.5,"body":"then once we really had a strong"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2368.5,"endTime":2371.77,"body":"sense of exactly where the book"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2368.5,"endTime":2371.77,"body":"was going, we commissioned quite"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2371.77,"endTime":2375.16,"body":"a bit of text and it took a lot"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2371.77,"endTime":2375.16,"body":"of research and it took a lot of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2375.88,"endTime":2380.26,"body":"re photography of some of the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2375.88,"endTime":2380.26,"body":"pieces and so you know, it"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2380.26,"endTime":2383.65,"body":"depends on on the project, but"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2380.26,"endTime":2383.65,"body":"they can take a while."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2384.04,"endTime":2385.99,"body":"Do you typically"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2384.04,"endTime":2385.99,"body":"go on press?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2386.53,"endTime":2394.33,"body":"I do. If I can."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2386.53,"endTime":2394.33,"body":"You know, I'm I actually, well I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2394.33,"endTime":2398.59,"body":"love the process of printing"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2394.33,"endTime":2398.59,"body":"books. It's it's unbelievable as"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2398.59,"endTime":2402.7,"body":"you well know. I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2398.59,"endTime":2402.7,"body":"purely mechanical, which is"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2403.09,"endTime":2406.81,"body":"insane that we got this process"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2403.09,"endTime":2406.81,"body":"to make these objects in this"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2406.81,"endTime":2411.52,"body":"way. You know, it's like having,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2406.81,"endTime":2411.52,"body":"like a giant, you know, bus that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2411.97,"endTime":2416.44,"body":"that paper runs into an ink over"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2411.97,"endTime":2416.44,"body":"rollers and comes out the other"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2416.44,"endTime":2421.81,"body":"end. And it's such a it's such"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2416.44,"endTime":2421.81,"body":"an art and hopefully not a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2421.81,"endTime":2422.86,"body":"disappearing one."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2423.59,"endTime":2426.85,"body":"And, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2423.59,"endTime":2426.85,"body":"that that I I'm like a kid just"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2424.06,"endTime":2424.6,"body":"Truly."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2426.921,"endTime":2431.032,"body":"completely fascinated by and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2426.921,"endTime":2431.032,"body":"love that process. But I also"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2431.103,"endTime":2435.356,"body":"love being there with artists."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2431.103,"endTime":2435.356,"body":"You know, I, I've heard other"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2435.427,"endTime":2439.751,"body":"designers make comments about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2435.427,"endTime":2439.751,"body":"not wanting the artist involved"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2439.822,"endTime":2444.217,"body":"or you know, whatever. I'd love"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2439.822,"endTime":2444.217,"body":"that process. I love that give"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2444.288,"endTime":2447.619,"body":"and take I love the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2444.288,"endTime":2447.619,"body":"collaboration, I'd love the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2447.69,"endTime":2452.227,"body":"whole. And I think as an artist"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2447.69,"endTime":2452.227,"body":"to be able to see your work come"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2452.298,"endTime":2456.834,"body":"off an offset print while you're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2452.298,"endTime":2456.834,"body":"alive is just it's such a gift."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2456.905,"endTime":2459.67,"body":"It's such a cool and fascinating"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2456.905,"endTime":2459.67,"body":"thing."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2459.97,"endTime":2464.98,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2459.97,"endTime":2464.98,"body":"absolutely. Absolutely. So"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2465.04,"endTime":2469.09,"body":"you've seen the publishing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2465.04,"endTime":2469.09,"body":"industry change a lot during"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2469.09,"endTime":2472.42,"body":"your time working with it? What"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2469.09,"endTime":2472.42,"body":"changes have you seen for the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2472.42,"endTime":2476.95,"body":"better? And what have you seen,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2472.42,"endTime":2476.95,"body":"from your perspective, from the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2476.95,"endTime":2477.46,"body":"worse?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2481.44,"endTime":2484.65,"body":"I think,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2481.44,"endTime":2484.65,"body":"definitely for the better at"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2484.65,"endTime":2491.31,"body":"this moment, I feel like the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2484.65,"endTime":2491.31,"body":"publishing world as a whole is"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2491.31,"endTime":2500.13,"body":"at a place where there's such an"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2491.31,"endTime":2500.13,"body":"explosion of expression, you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2500.13,"endTime":2505.35,"body":"know, exploration of what books"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2500.13,"endTime":2505.35,"body":"can do, ways in which people can"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2505.83,"endTime":2508.86,"body":"find ways to get whatever it is"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2505.83,"endTime":2508.86,"body":"they want to put in a book form"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2508.86,"endTime":2513.45,"body":"and get it out into the world. I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2508.86,"endTime":2513.45,"body":"just had a conversation maybe a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2513.45,"endTime":2517.35,"body":"month ago now with Clment"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2513.45,"endTime":2517.35,"body":"Chroux, who's the new curator"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2517.35,"endTime":2521.61,"body":"of photography at MoMA. He was"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2517.35,"endTime":2521.61,"body":"at SFMOMA before and he's moved"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2521.61,"endTime":2526.08,"body":"to MOMA. And he was asked by"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2521.61,"endTime":2526.08,"body":"Aperture to be, I think, a guest"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2526.08,"endTime":2530.55,"body":"editor for the publication that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2526.08,"endTime":2530.55,"body":"they do for Perry photo. And,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2530.58,"endTime":2535.35,"body":"and he started doing research on"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2530.58,"endTime":2535.35,"body":"photo book publishers"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2535.35,"endTime":2539.79,"body":"specifically, and looking at,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2535.35,"endTime":2539.79,"body":"you know, how when did this sort"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2539.79,"endTime":2543.39,"body":"of like explosion of photo book"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2539.79,"endTime":2543.39,"body":"publishing happen? How did this"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2543.39,"endTime":2547.95,"body":"happen? Right? How far back does"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2543.39,"endTime":2547.95,"body":"it go? And I don't remember the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2547.95,"endTime":2553.05,"body":"exact numbers, but the explosion"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2547.95,"endTime":2553.05,"body":"of numbers of publishers from 20"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2553.05,"endTime":2556.77,"body":"years ago to 10 years ago to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2553.05,"endTime":2556.77,"body":"five years ago, two years ago,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2557.28,"endTime":2561.6,"body":"is astounding. I mean, there are"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2557.28,"endTime":2561.6,"body":"so many, you know, I I still in"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2561.6,"endTime":2565.47,"body":"my brain think of Radius as"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2561.6,"endTime":2565.47,"body":"this, you know, young,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2565.5,"endTime":2569.16,"body":"independent upstart of a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2565.5,"endTime":2569.16,"body":"publisher..."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2569.19,"endTime":2570.45,"body":"Yeah, okay,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2569.19,"endTime":2570.45,"body":"grandpa."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2570.66,"endTime":2575.7,"body":"Yeah, exactly. At"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2570.66,"endTime":2575.7,"body":"this point, you know, we're"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2575.7,"endTime":2577.95,"body":"like, becoming old guard."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2577.98,"endTime":2579.3,"body":"I know, I know."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2580.35,"endTime":2583.56,"body":"Because they're"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2580.35,"endTime":2583.56,"body":"just really, really cool things"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2583.56,"endTime":2586.11,"body":"happening. And I think one of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2583.56,"endTime":2586.11,"body":"the things that's happened in"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2586.11,"endTime":2591.15,"body":"that process is that the concept"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2586.11,"endTime":2591.15,"body":"of self publishing, which, when"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2591.15,"endTime":2594.72,"body":"I started, you know, publishing,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2591.15,"endTime":2594.72,"body":"designing books, for publishers,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2594.72,"endTime":2597.81,"body":"that was like a dirty word, you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2594.72,"endTime":2597.81,"body":"just, you just didn't say self"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2597.81,"endTime":2601.71,"body":"publishing, right? It is so not"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2597.81,"endTime":2601.71,"body":"anymore. And I think that's"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2601.71,"endTime":2606.96,"body":"awesome, you know. So yeah, I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2601.71,"endTime":2606.96,"body":"mean, I think for the most part,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2606.96,"endTime":2610.35,"body":"it's been really positive."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2606.96,"endTime":2610.35,"body":"What's happened? The trick for"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2610.35,"endTime":2614.79,"body":"me is what the risk of the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2610.35,"endTime":2614.79,"body":"negative I suppose for me is"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2614.79,"endTime":2618.15,"body":"that I'm curious about watching"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2614.79,"endTime":2618.15,"body":"what's happening as technology"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2618.15,"endTime":2621.69,"body":"changes. And as we were just"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2618.15,"endTime":2621.69,"body":"talking about how much we love"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2621.69,"endTime":2625.08,"body":"this idea of offset printing,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2621.69,"endTime":2625.08,"body":"digital printing is getting"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2625.08,"endTime":2628.26,"body":"better and better. And it is,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2625.08,"endTime":2628.26,"body":"and more and more things are"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2628.26,"endTime":2634.35,"body":"possible by digital printing."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2628.26,"endTime":2634.35,"body":"What happens? I mean, I don't"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2634.35,"endTime":2638.07,"body":"know. I mean, maybe it'll all be"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2634.35,"endTime":2638.07,"body":"for the better in terms of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2638.16,"endTime":2640.44,"body":"getting objects out in the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2638.16,"endTime":2640.44,"body":"world, which at the end of the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2640.44,"endTime":2644.37,"body":"day, ink on paper, however, the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2640.44,"endTime":2644.37,"body":"ink gets on the paper, if it can"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2645.12,"endTime":2652.05,"body":"find a way of changing lives and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2645.12,"endTime":2652.05,"body":"doing better things, then I'm"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2652.05,"endTime":2654.0,"body":"all for it, but I don't know."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2654.75,"endTime":2657.75,"body":"Yeah, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2654.75,"endTime":2657.75,"body":"the digital is great, because"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2657.75,"endTime":2660.75,"body":"you can print 50 copies, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2657.75,"endTime":2660.75,"body":"then when those run out, you can"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2660.75,"endTime":2664.74,"body":"print 50 More, as opposed to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2660.75,"endTime":2664.74,"body":"offset where you kind of have to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2664.74,"endTime":2669.96,"body":"commit upfront, you know, like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2664.74,"endTime":2669.96,"body":"for me to do another printing of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2669.96,"endTime":2673.98,"body":"a book that sold out. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2669.96,"endTime":2673.98,"body":"it's starting all over in terms"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2674.01,"endTime":2674.97,"body":"financially."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2675.27,"endTime":2675.93,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2676.38,"endTime":2678.87,"body":"And so that's a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2676.38,"endTime":2678.87,"body":"big consideration. It's like,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2678.87,"endTime":2684.0,"body":"okay, we only let's say we did a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2678.87,"endTime":2684.0,"body":"run of 500 and they sold out. Do"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2684.0,"endTime":2687.63,"body":"we know that there are 500 more"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2684.0,"endTime":2687.63,"body":"people that want this book or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2687.63,"endTime":2692.49,"body":"have we saturated the market and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2687.63,"endTime":2692.49,"body":"we're just going to be out, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2692.49,"endTime":2696.09,"body":"know, a significant amount of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2692.49,"endTime":2696.09,"body":"money printing another run?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2697.2,"endTime":2699.51,"body":"I think one of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2697.2,"endTime":2699.51,"body":"the most difficult jobs as a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2699.51,"endTime":2702.12,"body":"publisher is knowing how many"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2699.51,"endTime":2702.12,"body":"copies to print?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2702.99,"endTime":2705.87,"body":"It keeps me up"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2702.99,"endTime":2705.87,"body":"at night."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2705.96,"endTime":2709.32,"body":"Yeah, me too."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2705.96,"endTime":2709.32,"body":"Every every book, you know, you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2709.62,"endTime":2712.17,"body":"go back and forth and back and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2709.62,"endTime":2712.17,"body":"forth. And sometimes you get it,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2712.5,"endTime":2716.88,"body":"you know, just right. And"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2712.5,"endTime":2716.88,"body":"sometimes you just don't. You"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2717.03,"endTime":2719.67,"body":"just think, Oh, I could have I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2717.03,"endTime":2719.67,"body":"should have printed way more"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2719.67,"endTime":2723.69,"body":"copies of that. Or, you know, on"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2719.67,"endTime":2723.69,"body":"the other side of it, which"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2724.14,"endTime":2726.42,"body":"these days is pretty rare"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2724.14,"endTime":2726.42,"body":"because we didn't usually have"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2726.42,"endTime":2729.06,"body":"the budget to print a huge"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2726.42,"endTime":2729.06,"body":"number of books any day. But,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2729.69,"endTime":2733.17,"body":"but But yeah, occasionally, you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2729.69,"endTime":2733.17,"body":"know, in the past, I'd look back"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2733.17,"endTime":2736.26,"body":"and think I shouldn't have"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2733.17,"endTime":2736.26,"body":"printed that many books."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2736.99,"endTime":2739.12,"body":"How would you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2736.99,"endTime":2739.12,"body":"describe your book design"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2739.12,"endTime":2743.38,"body":"philosophy? And do you design"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2739.12,"endTime":2743.38,"body":"all of the books for Radius?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2745.67,"endTime":2749.48,"body":"Not literally all"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2745.67,"endTime":2749.48,"body":"of them, but most of them. We"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2749.48,"endTime":2752.84,"body":"sometimes work with outside"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2749.48,"endTime":2752.84,"body":"designers, I'm always really"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2752.84,"endTime":2757.58,"body":"open to that, if the artist"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2752.84,"endTime":2757.58,"body":"wants has a long, for example,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2757.58,"endTime":2759.95,"body":"has a long working relationship"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2757.58,"endTime":2759.95,"body":"with another designer,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2759.95,"endTime":2764.69,"body":"absolutely, I would be foolish"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2759.95,"endTime":2764.69,"body":"not to want to work with them in"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2764.69,"endTime":2768.74,"body":"whatever way. We love to be"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2764.69,"endTime":2768.74,"body":"involved, we love to be part of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2768.74,"endTime":2772.52,"body":"that process to whatever, you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2768.74,"endTime":2772.52,"body":"know, can happen. And sometimes,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2772.55,"endTime":2775.34,"body":"you know, some of the artists"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2772.55,"endTime":2775.34,"body":"that we work with are really"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2775.37,"endTime":2781.19,"body":"amazing and visionary designers"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2775.37,"endTime":2781.19,"body":"in their own right. And so, you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2781.19,"endTime":2786.2,"body":"know, as a designer, I'm not"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2781.19,"endTime":2786.2,"body":"doing much. I'm supporting."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2786.23,"endTime":2787.55,"body":"You're giving it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2786.23,"endTime":2787.55,"body":"a thumbs up?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2787.75,"endTime":2792.46,"body":"Yes, exactly."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2787.75,"endTime":2792.46,"body":"Wow, that's amazing. But, but"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2792.46,"endTime":2796.48,"body":"yes, in general, you know, I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2792.46,"endTime":2796.48,"body":"design all the books, we have a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2796.48,"endTime":2798.79,"body":"team here, we work really"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2796.48,"endTime":2798.79,"body":"closely. I mean, we just this"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2798.79,"endTime":2802.6,"body":"morning, we're looking at the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2798.79,"endTime":2802.6,"body":"typography of one of the books"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2802.6,"endTime":2806.53,"body":"that we're working on, and we"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2802.6,"endTime":2806.53,"body":"printed eight different options"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2806.53,"endTime":2809.02,"body":"of different typography. And"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2806.53,"endTime":2809.02,"body":"we've been obsessing over it,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2809.02,"endTime":2813.16,"body":"and we, we all talk about it. So"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2809.02,"endTime":2813.16,"body":"it's, it's not like, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2813.19,"endTime":2816.97,"body":"there's nothing dictatorial"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2813.19,"endTime":2816.97,"body":"about anything that we do. And"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2816.97,"endTime":2820.69,"body":"the same, I think that's, that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2816.97,"endTime":2820.69,"body":"is, at the very end of the day,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2820.69,"endTime":2827.77,"body":"my design philosophy, I think"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2820.69,"endTime":2827.77,"body":"it's is very much, I call it"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2827.8,"endTime":2831.58,"body":"listening to the work. And"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2827.8,"endTime":2831.58,"body":"sometimes I'm worried that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2831.58,"endTime":2840.19,"body":"sounds like I lived in Santa Fe"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2831.58,"endTime":2840.19,"body":"too long. But I think inside"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2840.19,"endTime":2846.94,"body":"that idea, there's something"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2840.19,"endTime":2846.94,"body":"about really trying to get into"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2846.94,"endTime":2849.88,"body":"the core of the work to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2846.94,"endTime":2849.88,"body":"understand it, and to think"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2849.88,"endTime":2852.79,"body":"about, okay, so if you're an"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2849.88,"endTime":2852.79,"body":"artist that works in this way,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2852.79,"endTime":2856.57,"body":"and makes this kind of work, or"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2852.79,"endTime":2856.57,"body":"takes these kinds of images, or"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2857.14,"endTime":2860.86,"body":"you know, fabricates these kinds"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2857.14,"endTime":2860.86,"body":"of three dimensional objects, or"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2860.86,"endTime":2865.18,"body":"makes these kinds of videos,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2860.86,"endTime":2865.18,"body":"then how do you then think about"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2865.78,"endTime":2871.06,"body":"what that translates into a book"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2865.78,"endTime":2871.06,"body":"form? So it's taking the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2871.06,"endTime":2875.92,"body":"inspiration of the work itself"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2871.06,"endTime":2875.92,"body":"and trying to find a form. I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2875.92,"endTime":2880.03,"body":"think the thing that we offer is"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2875.92,"endTime":2880.03,"body":"that we live in this world of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2880.03,"endTime":2884.77,"body":"paper and binding and books and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2880.03,"endTime":2884.77,"body":"know what's possible, what's not"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2884.77,"endTime":2888.61,"body":"possible, what's, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2884.77,"endTime":2888.61,"body":"what's been done, what hasn't"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2888.61,"endTime":2895.54,"body":"been done, you know? And that's"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2888.61,"endTime":2895.54,"body":"maybe a repository of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2895.57,"endTime":2899.8,"body":"information that can help with"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2895.57,"endTime":2899.8,"body":"an artist to try to figure out"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2900.1,"endTime":2904.9,"body":"how how their work can fit into"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2900.1,"endTime":2904.9,"body":"that and, and maybe explode some"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2904.9,"endTime":2908.47,"body":"of those boundaries. I was not"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2904.9,"endTime":2908.47,"body":"formally trained as a graphic"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2908.47,"endTime":2914.53,"body":"designer, my degrees are in art"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2908.47,"endTime":2914.53,"body":"history and painting. And I gave"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2914.53,"endTime":2921.13,"body":"a talk at Harvard, to their MFA"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2914.53,"endTime":2921.13,"body":"candidates one time, and I was,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2921.31,"endTime":2929.65,"body":"you know, felt so out of..., not"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2921.31,"endTime":2929.65,"body":"qualified to be doing this. And,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2930.34,"endTime":2934.48,"body":"but I think that sometimes is a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2930.34,"endTime":2934.48,"body":"gift because I did it because I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2934.48,"endTime":2937.09,"body":"was passionate about it, because"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2934.48,"endTime":2937.09,"body":"I loved it, because I wanted to"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2937.09,"endTime":2943.12,"body":"do it not because I had trained"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2937.09,"endTime":2943.12,"body":"background. And so that, you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2943.12,"endTime":2946.06,"body":"know, to whatever degree it can,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2943.12,"endTime":2946.06,"body":"it can sort of help you to sort"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2946.06,"endTime":2950.05,"body":"of let go of the, of the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2946.06,"endTime":2950.05,"body":"structure and just really try"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2950.05,"endTime":2952.21,"body":"to, I think that can be helpful."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2953.98,"endTime":2956.41,"body":"And so the last"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2953.98,"endTime":2956.41,"body":"question, we touched on this a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2956.41,"endTime":2958.84,"body":"little bit, but what kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2956.41,"endTime":2958.84,"body":"photography books would you like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2958.84,"endTime":2960.85,"body":"to see more of out in the world?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2962.31,"endTime":2967.02,"body":"More divergent"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2962.31,"endTime":2967.02,"body":"voices. Bottom line. I mean, so"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2967.02,"endTime":2971.85,"body":"many, so many great photography"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2967.02,"endTime":2971.85,"body":"books being made right now. I'm"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2971.85,"endTime":2977.85,"body":"not sure that it's a lack of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2971.85,"endTime":2977.85,"body":"great books. But I still think"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2977.85,"endTime":2980.91,"body":"that as much as our world is"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2977.85,"endTime":2980.91,"body":"shifting, and we're and we're"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2980.91,"endTime":2982.98,"body":"changing, and we're making sure"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2980.91,"endTime":2982.98,"body":"that things like this are"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2982.98,"endTime":2986.22,"body":"happening. It's still, we still"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":2982.98,"endTime":2986.22,"body":"need more."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2987.59,"endTime":2991.82,"body":"Agreed. Do you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2987.59,"endTime":2991.82,"body":"feel like or I should say, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2991.82,"endTime":2997.4,"body":"feel like with COVID"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2991.82,"endTime":2997.4,"body":"coincidentally, I guess a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2997.4,"endTime":3002.65,"body":"the portfolio reviews have gone"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":2997.4,"endTime":3002.65,"body":"online. And, you know, so the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3002.65,"endTime":3008.02,"body":"ones that I've done, I've seen a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3002.65,"endTime":3008.02,"body":"lot of really diverse work, you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3008.02,"endTime":3011.56,"body":"know, people from all over the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3008.02,"endTime":3011.56,"body":"world, which is not typical. So"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3012.07,"endTime":3016.75,"body":"the way that occasionally I find"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3012.07,"endTime":3016.75,"body":"artists is from an in person"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3016.75,"endTime":3020.11,"body":"portfolio review, but it's tends"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3016.75,"endTime":3020.11,"body":"to be people that are relatively"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3020.11,"endTime":3023.86,"body":"local, or at least, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3020.11,"endTime":3023.86,"body":"based in the States. And so,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3024.19,"endTime":3027.52,"body":"I've been able to pick up some"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3024.19,"endTime":3027.52,"body":"projects in the past year or so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3027.52,"endTime":3030.55,"body":"from, you know, an artist that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3027.52,"endTime":3030.55,"body":"lives in Poland that would not"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3030.55,"endTime":3035.92,"body":"have been able to, to come in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3030.55,"endTime":3035.92,"body":"person to show me the work. So"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3035.92,"endTime":3037.18,"body":"that's been really interesting."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3037.45,"endTime":3041.2,"body":"That's the gift"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3037.45,"endTime":3041.2,"body":"of our, of one of the things"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3041.2,"endTime":3045.22,"body":"that's happened in the last year"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3041.2,"endTime":3045.22,"body":"and a half, right, is that we"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3045.22,"endTime":3050.32,"body":"found ways to be connected. And,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3045.22,"endTime":3050.32,"body":"and work through those"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3050.32,"endTime":3055.66,"body":"connections, in kind of amazing"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3050.32,"endTime":3055.66,"body":"ways, right. So that, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3055.66,"endTime":3060.85,"body":"I know, even for the, for the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3055.66,"endTime":3060.85,"body":"Zoom talks and lectures that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3060.85,"endTime":3064.63,"body":"we've done with artists, you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3060.85,"endTime":3064.63,"body":"know, it was, it was this sort"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3064.63,"endTime":3069.31,"body":"of knee kerk, kind of, we're"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3064.63,"endTime":3069.31,"body":"going to try to replace what"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3069.31,"endTime":3073.78,"body":"used to be in person talks and"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3069.31,"endTime":3073.78,"body":"book signings, it wasn't, wasn't"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3073.78,"endTime":3079.69,"body":"born out of this idea that that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3073.78,"endTime":3079.69,"body":"by doing so, we could reach a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3079.69,"endTime":3082.51,"body":"much bigger audience than we"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3079.69,"endTime":3082.51,"body":"could the other way and a much"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3082.51,"endTime":3089.89,"body":"more, a much, you know, you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3082.51,"endTime":3089.89,"body":"know, at a single time, a much"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3089.89,"endTime":3092.71,"body":"more divergent arty audience."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3089.89,"endTime":3092.71,"body":"And that's that you will never"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3092.71,"endTime":3097.36,"body":"go back from that. Right? That"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3092.71,"endTime":3097.36,"body":"that feels, you know, even"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3097.36,"endTime":3101.38,"body":"better. I mean, I think farther"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3097.36,"endTime":3101.38,"body":"to that, then you try to figure"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3101.38,"endTime":3104.14,"body":"out how do you get beyond that"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3101.38,"endTime":3104.14,"body":"too, because then that's only"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3104.14,"endTime":3107.17,"body":"limited to the people who have"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3104.14,"endTime":3107.17,"body":"the technology who can actually"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3107.77,"endTime":3111.52,"body":"be there, right? So how do you"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3107.77,"endTime":3111.52,"body":"how do you break even farther? I"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3111.52,"endTime":3116.29,"body":"don't know. But I mean, I think"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3111.52,"endTime":3116.29,"body":"this whole idea of, of, we're"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3116.29,"endTime":3118.6,"body":"moving in a really good"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3116.29,"endTime":3118.6,"body":"direction. And yet, there's a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3118.6,"endTime":3119.32,"body":"whole lot more."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3120.2,"endTime":3122.72,"body":"Well even like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3120.2,"endTime":3122.72,"body":"collaborating design wise, with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3122.72,"endTime":3127.4,"body":"artists. I mean, I've always"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3122.72,"endTime":3127.4,"body":"done it virtually, you know, for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3127.4,"endTime":3130.22,"body":"the most part, or we're sending"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3127.4,"endTime":3130.22,"body":"things back and forth in the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3130.22,"endTime":3136.34,"body":"mail. My artists, budgets don't"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3130.22,"endTime":3136.34,"body":"typically allow for them to come"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3136.34,"endTime":3142.55,"body":"luxuriate in Atlanta for long"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3136.34,"endTime":3142.55,"body":"periods of time. But a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3142.55,"endTime":3145.4,"body":"designers, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3142.55,"endTime":3145.4,"body":"collaborate with Hans Gremmen on"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3145.4,"endTime":3149.9,"body":"a couple of titles. And the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3145.4,"endTime":3149.9,"body":"first one that we did, it was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3149.9,"endTime":3153.05,"body":"kind of mandatory that the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3149.9,"endTime":3153.05,"body":"artists come over on that they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3153.05,"endTime":3156.32,"body":"work in person, you know, in the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3153.05,"endTime":3156.32,"body":"Netherlands together. And then"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3156.56,"endTime":3159.53,"body":"this time, I mean, it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3156.56,"endTime":3159.53,"body":"possible with COVID. And, again,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3159.53,"endTime":3163.46,"body":"it's just kind of expands"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3159.53,"endTime":3163.46,"body":"people's concept of how to do"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3163.46,"endTime":3166.52,"body":"things, you know, and that it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3163.46,"endTime":3166.52,"body":"been able to be equally as"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3166.52,"endTime":3168.59,"body":"collaborative, virtually."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3169.73,"endTime":3172.13,"body":"We're launching a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3169.73,"endTime":3172.13,"body":"couple of books in a couple of"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3172.13,"endTime":3176.96,"body":"weeks in Paris. And it will be"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3172.13,"endTime":3176.96,"body":"the first time that I've met the"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3176.96,"endTime":3178.01,"body":"artists in person."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3178.61,"endTime":3180.05,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3180.17,"endTime":3185.6,"body":"That's so"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3180.17,"endTime":3185.6,"body":"strange. But yeah, it is. I'm"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3185.6,"endTime":3190.67,"body":"not sure it's ideal, but it is"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3185.6,"endTime":3190.67,"body":"possible. And it's, and it feels"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3190.67,"endTime":3193.13,"body":"like so much more is possible as"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3190.67,"endTime":3193.13,"body":"we become more adjusted to these"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3193.13,"endTime":3193.7,"body":"kind of things."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3193.91,"endTime":3196.91,"body":"Yeah. One of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3193.91,"endTime":3196.91,"body":"these days, I'm going to come to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3196.97,"endTime":3199.67,"body":"the big party, the big Radius"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3196.97,"endTime":3199.67,"body":"party,"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3199.75,"endTime":3200.47,"body":"Please do!"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3203.41,"endTime":3204.13,"body":"What time of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3203.41,"endTime":3204.13,"body":"year?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3204.34,"endTime":3207.43,"body":"We do it every"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3204.34,"endTime":3207.43,"body":"other year. So we don't do it"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3207.43,"endTime":3210.19,"body":"every year. It's such a, it's"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3207.43,"endTime":3210.19,"body":"such a big thing for us to pull"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3210.19,"endTime":3216.85,"body":"off as a small team. So we only"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3210.19,"endTime":3216.85,"body":"do it every other year. And we"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3216.85,"endTime":3224.35,"body":"do it in the..., this time it"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3216.85,"endTime":3224.35,"body":"was in late August, which is a"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3224.35,"endTime":3229.15,"body":"good time in Santa Fe. It's"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3224.35,"endTime":3229.15,"body":"moved around a little bit. It"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3229.15,"endTime":3232.96,"body":"was in early October, one time."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3229.15,"endTime":3232.96,"body":"It used to be in September, but"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3232.99,"endTime":3235.84,"body":"September proved to be a month"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3232.99,"endTime":3235.84,"body":"that so many other things were"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3235.84,"endTime":3238.81,"body":"happening that it was"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3235.84,"endTime":3238.81,"body":"complicated logistically, and so"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3239.02,"endTime":3241.63,"body":"I think we'll probably stay in"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3239.02,"endTime":3241.63,"body":"the mid to late August realm."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3242.38,"endTime":3244.9,"body":"So that would be"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3242.38,"endTime":3244.9,"body":"2023?"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3245.2,"endTime":3245.59,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3246.23,"endTime":3248.84,"body":"All right. I'll"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3246.23,"endTime":3248.84,"body":"block off..."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3249.77,"endTime":3252.2,"body":"Yeah. Yeah, block"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3249.77,"endTime":3252.2,"body":"off August (laughs) 2023"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3252.23,"endTime":3254.27,"body":"Yeah, yeah. On"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3252.23,"endTime":3254.27,"body":"it! (laughs)"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3255.2,"endTime":3258.17,"body":"I really appreciate you doing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3255.2,"endTime":3258.17,"body":"this today. This was so great."},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3258.41,"endTime":3260.09,"body":"It was really"},{"speaker":"David Chickey","startTime":3258.41,"endTime":3260.09,"body":"fun. Nice to talk to you."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3260.72,"endTime":3263.12,"body":"Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3260.72,"endTime":3263.12,"body":"listening to the Perfect Bound"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3263.12,"endTime":3266.51,"body":"podcast. If you'd like to hear"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3263.12,"endTime":3266.51,"body":"any past episodes, you can find"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3266.51,"endTime":3271.82,"body":"them at the Yoffy Press website"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3266.51,"endTime":3271.82,"body":"YoffyPress.com/podcasts. You can"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3271.82,"endTime":3276.2,"body":"also find this on any other"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3271.82,"endTime":3276.2,"body":"podcast streaming platform that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3276.2,"endTime":3280.28,"body":"you might use, like Spotify or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3276.2,"endTime":3280.28,"body":"Apple podcasts. If you feel like"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3280.28,"endTime":3283.76,"body":"rating it with lots of positive"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3280.28,"endTime":3283.76,"body":"stars. I would really appreciate"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3283.76,"endTime":3288.29,"body":"that too. And I'm looking"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3283.76,"endTime":3288.29,"body":"forward to seeing you next time."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Yoffy","startTime":3288.32,"endTime":3288.89,"body":"Thank you"}]}