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The Tefilah Podcast
The Tefilah Podcast
Tehilim 136: Hallel ha'Gadol (Part 3 - Malbim)
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Length: 1 hour 1 minute
Synopsis: This evening (3/25/26), in our Wednesday night Tehilim shiur, we began with the Radak's comments on the "ki le'olam chasdo" refrain, followed by a brief comment by Sforno's student on the fine-tuning of the universe, and then spent the rest of the shiur learning the Malbim's approach. We had a brief detour into an angel-related Haggadah topic, but stayed pretty much on track after that. We definitely came up with AN approach. Whether it's what the Malbim had in mind I'll leave for you to decide!
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מקורות:
תהלים קלו
רד"ק - תהלים קלו:א-ד
ר' אליה די נולה - תהלים קלו:ה
מלבי"ם
הגדה של פסח - ויוציאנו
רמב"ם - מורה הנבוכים ב:ו
דעת זקנים - שמות יב:כג
https://rabbischneeweiss.substack.com/p/shelach-shadals-radical-take-on-the
Rabbi Israel Chait - "Torah from Sinai"
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This week's Torah content is sponsored by Seth Speiser, in honor of the yahrzeit of his father, Rabbi George Speiser (Rav Yosef ben Dovid). Rabbi Speiser was a kind and gentle soul as well as an Intellectual and a scholar. He received smicha from Rav Hutner at Chaim Berlin. His love for teaching and making puns was only outweighed by his love of family.
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Okay, so it's been two weeks, and this is our last session on this uh Peric before Pesach. Um I mean, we're gonna not turn it to after Pesach, uh, but um so last time we did our own theory and it worked out and it was good. I'm not gonna review it now, uh, but um I gotta explain to you what happened when I was preparing for this year. So I only prepared for this um right before with uh my gerusa. We started to go through the Radoq and found like halfway through our learning that we would not finish the Radoq, which meant that we would not be able to finish the Radock here. We also found that it did seem to be somewhat consistent with the approach that we took, even though we don't we're not sure because we didn't finish it. So um what I'd like to do is I'd like to do an isolated point from the Radoq and then an isolated point from the Elia Dinola from Sporno student, and then I want to do the Malbin. Okay. Um we decided to go to the Malbin because uh Malbum usually has like a refreshingly different approach. And also the Malbin is oddly short um on this parac. Usually Malbin does like every single positive and every single word, uh, but it was short enough that we could do it all in one shot. Okay, so let me show you the Radak, and I'm gonna use the Al Torah one, or sorry, uh sorry, not the Altora one, the uh Torus Kaim one, because that's the reliable one. Um the more reliable of the ones. So I just want to focus on the um uh the pshot, he says. So he quotes a midrash. So he says, Ulfia pshat, kol ech. So he's explaining why there are uh kilo and chastos at the end of every single thing. Okay, uh, which I I can't remember if we gave a positive, like an actual explanation for why um it has to repeat, or not why it has to repeat, but why it by why it repeats. I just don't remember what we said. Um but he says, Ko achadieshlo inyun bimcoma, each one has its own idea in its place. And there are 26 um based on the topics that are mentioned in the mismore. So that's in contrast to he quoted a midrashic thing that says, I forgot if I said this last time, that there's 26 generations from the creation of the world until Matan Torah, and the entire world was sustained in the Zuchus uh or in in Chesed before that. And I think we noted that it doesn't really make sense because the mismore continues, first of all, it doesn't mention Kabalsa Torah, and it continues beyond that. So, like, I don't get what the midrash is doing. But so he's saying, in contrast to that, which attaches significance to the 26, here he's saying, no, there are 26 topics, and like it just happens to be there's 26 kill and chastos because there's one for each each one. Okay, fine. So then he says, the amar tilah, hodular shem, kulchem, all of you should give thanks to a shem, khlomar, kolbeneha olam, the entire world, not just clay Israel, because he is good and he benefits the the world. Um, the chasto ha godol ain'lo hefak and his great chesed has no does not cease, has no interruption, kill, because it is forever. So, in other words, he's he's he's trying to see what we're giving thanks on by saying what chesed is forever. So the closest chesed we can find that's forever is the sustenance of universe because he created it and it's going on forever. I mean, as long as he wills it, as opposed to all the chesed that are enumerated within the thing. So the big chesed is the universe that that continues to exist. So it mentions God's great chesed with each and every one in order to magnify the shabbach. So the question is, what do we get from what he's telling us here about like what are we supposed to think about at the kilo lamch of each and every one? Oh, I don't remember what we said. Also, just to contrast what we said. I think what we said, correct me if uh I'm wrong or reinforce me if I'm right, is that our theory, our basic approach was there's the tove of my subracies, and then there's all the tovos that God does for us. And the mistake is to think about the tovos that God does for us for Claudia Sarrel in isolation. And what we really have to remember is that the Tove that He does for us is only to bring us to the Tove of the entire universe, and for us to like be mashlim that, like to complete that. And that's why at the very end it goes back to Ho Dula Kal Hashmaim, Kilulong Hasto. But the point there was that each of the chesed that it's talking about um is uh the same kind of chesed as the chesed of Masabreshis, which is an undeserved uh Hataba, like an undeserved goodness. So, so in other words, it's reminding us that that God's uh creation of the world was undeserved was you know, excuse me, was uh was not owed anyone. Uh and the same thing with the Tovostei does for us, but it's all to bring us in line with that that ultimate Tove. So that's what we said. But the question is, what is he saying here? I don't know if this is another hint, but uh you know he goes on to explain stuff um and he repeats this thing about um about the cube of the uh of the world uh with Inlah Hafse. So he says, for example, um yeah, oh so here's a good example by the way. So that's where he learns the elo hodulke elohim is the malachim, hodula adunim is the galgalim. Uh and then he said, Oh, sorry, uh he quotes two interpretations, then he goes he goes to his. He says, Um uh might as well read it. Umr leose horos ki enam kadmonim, kamoshu kadmon. So it it is saying l'ose that he makes these things to show that they are not eternal, as he is eternal. Ella sham alulim vhu ila lahem. They are caused, and he is their cause. Uh philosophing, like the philosophers say. Uhose, l'amecha inam kadmonim, ella huose osam, hu khidasham. He he created them anew. Okay. Um uh um, and then he goes and he says, I thought he said in la have sake here. Maybe I'm thinking of a different puzzle. Hold on. Um talking about him. Oh, yeah, here he is. Uh so sorry, so he gives his interpretation here. He says, Um uh he says so he quotes Ibn Ezra who says that niflaos uh does not mean wondrous wondrous uh wonders, uh it means uh hidden things. So he says, um so he says uh veneer bainai. Where does he say it? Oh veneer ba'inai, it seems to me ki amar laola niflos kadolos lavado al tsurush inam kufos vlo bugu uh v lobigufos of him as kalimanifradim. So he says the the hidden things are the angels uh that are not bodies and they're not in bodies. They're hidden from man's eye. Kilo tasik inha'adam, a la mashuhu chomer. Uh man can only uh perceive what's physical. The hagogalim, the haghim, and then what about the spheres? Him chomer zah. They're made out of a fine substance, uh, the fifth element, the tsigum inha'atam. And man can grasp them with his eye, of a tsuros, shame blokomer, low tasigum in ha'atam, but the the tsuros that have no matter, which is the angels, uh, man cannot grasp them. Of ath inhamaqshava, tele la hasiam. Uh sorry, man can't perceive them, and even his uh mind's eye has difficulty grasping them. That's why he calls them great hidden things. Of Amr Levado, kihu lovado niska valehem. He mentions uh alone, because God uh alone is exalted above them. Okay, we have this is what I want to get to. Everything else is beneath them, the him kyum ha'olam, and they are the you know, um explaining lush, hymn kyum ha'ulam. They are the sustaining of the world. God placed each one of them in its proper place. That's why he says, Kilo lam chosto, kihine, him chesed akal abruev. They are God's chesed over his creations of him la ulam, and they are forever inlaham hefse. So he goes through this the universe has God is maintaining it constantly. So what what is with what does he want us to think about whenever we punctuate everything with kilo lam chosto?
SPEAKER_00Constantly repeating it correctly, the chassid is constant.
SPEAKER_03Right, exactly. So it's like a there's gotta be a fancy poetic term for this, but like the there's like a um like you're symbolically reinforcing the point by mentioning Kilo and Fasto that it's a that for example, if just to contrast it with a finite chesed, God took us out of Mithraim. So it'd be great if we talked about it a lot, but like it was in the past and it happened and it's over. Okay. And you can talk about the effects or whatever, but but but you only need to mention it once. But this is a chesed that is constant. So, like every every moment the chesed is an operation, and you're driving that point home by by saying kilom khasto after every single thing you mentioned. And the the thing that I think is different here is that I mean it's kind of um it runs alongside our theory, but when you mention lamake mitraim bifkorehim, ilulam chasto is not referring to that chesed, it's referring to the chesed of Godal. It's referring to the fact that the entire universe is sustained by God. And so you you're you're you have this effect of constantly you start off with the universe that God created is with chesed. Then you go to the the Galgalim and the angels, and it's chesed he's maintaining them. And the Oseh Shema'im uh uh Oseh Hashimaim uh Bisbuna, uh uh, you know, Kilom Chazo, then you're zooming into the little things on earth and zooming back to the chest of the Shemayim, you know, so back and forth and back and forth. So I just thought that was an interesting uh point, and it it does go back to what I was quoting from the Rahman last time of Olam Chesed Yibane, but this seems to be referring to not the act of creating the world initially, but the continual maintenance of the world, the Hilus Yasodiatora, you know, halakhos all of through he, you know. So I thought that was just an interesting standalone point. Okay. Um, other side point, this one's for Rabbi Fader and Rabbi Zimmer. Um, there is a reference to fine-tuning in Ovadia uh in uh in uh Eli Dinola. Okay, how so? Um, so he says, uh shimain bisvuna, who makes the heavens with understanding. She ilu hayoyoser gadolin me'at. If the heavens were just a little bit bigger, how galgailim hayum akim za zed bitunasam, the spheres would inhibit each other in their their motion. Uh uh, because remember, they they held that all the changes on earth happened because of the motion of the spheres, so it like the machinery would get jammed, basically. Uh iluhayu Yosu Ktaniman, if they were a little bit smaller, Haya Rakos uh Nimsa, um then I don't know if that means that they'd be empty or there would be uh there would be space. There'd be space between them. Uh there'd be like a rake, I think, like a space between the spheres. Um, as opposed to like in other words, they would not interact in the way that they're supposed to. Nimsa sha'sam bitvuna. So constantly he made them with tivuna, which here he seems to be using um, like in terms of like uh like precision, precise intelligence. So Swarno says this in his Murnavukim Bhakgyosh Mayim. So I thought that was just a nice little standalone point that obviously we don't hold by the celestial spheres, but we do hold this by the fine-tuning of the universe, that everything needed to be exactly correct in order for the universe that we have to be in existence. Okay. Okay. All right, so now we're going to turn to the Malbin. And like I mentioned, uh, the Malbim is usually uh longer, but surprisingly short. And I don't know what to make of that. Um, and Ken and I only ended up learning the Malbin for half an hour because we did the Radak for the first part. So we have an approach, but we really need to work on in here. Okay, so we'll this is gonna be contingent on us uh um figuring it out. Okay. Hodu. So after he commanded us on the praise and the braca, which I think is referenced to the previous parak, um, previous parak says, Halulu ya, hallu as shame arunnoi, hallu av the arunai. Okay, so that is hilarious and then it ends with Barku Arashambitzion Shochim Bushlaim Haluka. So that's a hill in the braca. Okay, I don't know what his uh his idea for the parag was, but after commanding us on the hill and the braca, siva al-hahodah, he commands us on on giving thanks. I don't know if this is a typo, I think it's supposed to be shakiblu mi menu, that we uh to thank God on the goods that we got from him. Shazemitza tuba vachasadav. This is uh from his goodness and his chesed, uh his chasadim, the chasadim ala hem laulam, and these chasadim are forever being the ace shiyanhig es ha'olam I'll pi hanhagas a teva, whether at a time that he rules the universe or or governs the universe through natural governance, laws of nature, being kishimanhig alphi hanhagas haniflaos, or whether he governs uh the universe through the governance of wonders. Now, this I'm just gonna translate this here as miraculous governance. I think that's what he means by niflaos, uh, because he can keep contrasting it with Teba. Shehim Shneha Hanhagos Shit, Hashem Shim Khalam, Hashem Zikhala Dorvadar. These are the two types of rulership that are uh referenced in what is written, Hashem, your name is forever, Hashem, your memory is for uh for generation to generation. Do you know where that is? Is that in the previous Pasuk? Uh yes, it is. Yudgimel. So I just want to see what he says in Yud Gimel here. Hashem Shem Khalolam, Hashem Zikhalvador. So the Mobam there says, Hashem Shim Khalolam, Rosalamhine, Rainu, Miitha Shne Mini Hahnagos. We see two types of governance. Anhaga hamusuderas, a type of governance that is ordered from the six days of creation. That's interesting. That's called the Shem Hashem. That's the name of Hashem through which he's known in the world continually without change. Uh and then the second is Han Haga Hanisis, the miraculous um governance, Hamis Kadeshis, but is um renewed from time to time. Josh, you know we're not there, right? In the we're not okay, yeah, I find yeah. Uh, I don't know if you were looking for it. Um uh so the the miraculous governance, which is like uh infrequent from time to time, zenikra zikrcha, and that's your your zechar, lefishaa, kadeshi isakhrubo. So not zeker remembrance, but zechar like um uh what's a good word? Not mention. Is there a better word for this? Recognition, maybe? Yeah, uh that someone does something, uh, so that people will recall him or recognize him and mention him. Vizet inokulum, that's not established forever, Blihish Town is without change, rakhu lador Vador. It's from generation to generation. Shan Hagas, Haneshu Rak Lefi Hador, Lufiat Sorok Bholdor. So that's from a generation to generation um basis. Okay, so those are the two ways God governs the world. Okay. So, and so he's saying both of those chasadim are forever. Okay, now right away we have a problem, especially because of what we just read. What's the problem saying that both of them are forever? Yeah, the temporary, right? So it doesn't mean that it's forever. Okay, right. So that question, uh hold on the sideburner because he's gonna answer that later on. Bihine Al Hahanhaga alpiha teva, Amar. So regarding the natural governance, he says, now he knocks off two Psubim at once. Hodu low kehailohim la nehadanim. Okay, now uh there's a nice methodological point that he that you it comes from here, okay. Ki ha han hagaha tvis, the natural governance, tsia nuha umos hakmonim, the um the um the non the ancient non-Jews um conceived of them or depicted them, Shehim Ali De Elohim Vahadonim, as if they were um run through uh rulers and uh masters, Sheima Kochavim Mahama Zalas, which are the spheres of the stars and the constellations, Shahim Hayu Ladatam, Adonih Arts, Bahamashlim. In according to their opinion, they were the rulers of the the land and the uh the lords of the land and the rulers. Bahmalim and the angels, Hammarakas, that governed the the constellations, they were rulers or gods over these uh masters. Umashpim alehem koach vatma, and they were the ones who bestowed the the uh capacity and the power. Alpizah, based on this, then the the the Mizmur said, Sharashem Huhanosin Koach El Ha Malachim. He's the one who gives power to the Malachim, the Hanhaga V'adnus El Ha'adonim, and governance and lordship to the lords. Ha ko al phobanhaga so all through his power and his hanhaga. Okay, so first of all, methodologically, what do I like about this? What is it what is interesting that he's doing here? Or what is he claiming that Talem is doing? Right. So he's saying that Talem is speaking according to the the belief systems of back of back then, you know. So I I do think that's very interesting because I mean I have this is a whole um uh obsession? Should I use obsession? No, uh it's a whole uh exploration of mine, which is that this principle of Dibrator Halashramaniadam. So if you look anyone know where that principle originates or how it was used originally? So it's in the Drashash Shatorni Drashis, or the Middle Shatorni Drashispan, and it was only used to talk about whether the words that are whether when you're darshing Torah, whether you can use normal language or assume that there's like normal language. Okay, that's a very, very oversimplified version of it. Okay, so that was level one, okay. Rambam then extended it to um to anthropomorphism. Okay, now obviously the Torah does use anthropomorphism, but the Ram's the first one who used Dibirical Lashbani Adam in that way as a phrase. Yeah, right. Okay. Then you have Ibn Kaspi, who used it for like figures of speech, like hyperbole. Now, again, Hazal also said that the Torah speaks not hyperbole, but using that phrase dibrotical is like this is how people talked. And then Shadal, I'm not saying these are the only four, these are like in my mind, this is the hierarchy. Shadal goes so far as to say that um Shadal and modern academics say that the that like you know, you the Torah is speaking in the language and with the conceptions that the people had back then. So let's say, for example, easy examples, especially if you went to uh Uh Israq Shir on Sunday, um, you know, um talking about the um Habuseh Buhuyum uh wait wait, what's the phrase in um yeah, Dalse Misrach, right? Like like opening the doors and the windows of the of the heavens and stuff like that, you know. So like if you find a phrase like that in Tanakh, okay, I don't know where their phrases are like that in Tanakh, but like, or or let's say even like the um the rakiah or you know, things like this, which we know are not are not real, okay. So some people are disturbed by that, you know, like like how can it be that the Torah could use these phrases if they're not scientifically scientifically accurate, or Arba Kanfos Arets, you know, or like you know, with the flood, like that the the the the uh the flood went over the entire world, right? You know, so so Shadal is of the opinion and the academics are of the opinion, and I'm of the opinion that that the Torah and the Navim did utilize the conceptions of the world back then, you know. So I think this is interesting. I don't know if he's claiming that David is like refuted, like using their terminology in order to refute them, because he does say, you know, it does come back obviously and say that um God is the one who gives them power, you know. Uh, or if he is saying that, like, no, they really did think that there were angels and lords over these things, and we now know that that this is not the case. But you know, the his apologetic language is is is uh um is I don't know, I don't want to call it apologetic, but like saying like back then they thought, you know. So I I just think that's a very, very interesting way to to to put it, you know. So I just thought that was interesting. Okay, but the point he's making though is what is this attempting to do? What what are these tubes are gonna be attempting to do?
SPEAKER_00What's the point of them?
SPEAKER_03I don't think this is a crazy like uh powerful. Okay, correct, right. So it knows you got this functioning machinery. Okay. And lest you think, see, those things, the machinery of nature is ruling over and causing all the changes, but lest you think that the power comes from them, it's coming from Hashem. It's being supplied by Hashem, and all of it is running through that. You know, so so it is kind of like the equivalent of um we say that you should not say Kochiv Otsim Yadi As Alias Raiozah. You should also not say Koham Votzem Yadam, you know, meaning the the heavenly powers is running the world. It's really from Hashem. Okay. Yeah. And uh yeah, okay. Uh, so that's the interesting thing, right? Is that he does not explain here how it's chesed. Okay, and it's also not entirely clear if he is working with a specific definition of chesed or whether he's just using it as a synonym for tov, right? Tovasto, okay. So um, so for now let's just assume he's using it as just a good thing that God does. Okay. All right, onward. Now check out what he does. Okay, listen now. We're at Laose Hashraim Biswuna. So I would have thought that this is still in uh in the natural framework, but no. The negat ha han hagaha pilais. Okay, so now corresponding to the um the miraculous governance, shze in nas e kal aide malach or gogal. This is not done at all through a malach or a galgal. Rach me hashem levado, uh, but it's all it's Hashem alone, amar shahaniflaos gidolos ose levado. Uh he says that the niflaus gedolos God does alone, meaning miracles he does alone, shlobsa elohim va adonim, not through the Elohim Adon and the Adonim. Kiaz Meshadid es Kocham, because then he he uh uh uh overrides their power, Viafli plaos pokoko a godal and does wonders with his great koach. Okay. Now I read this and I was disturbed. Anyone else disturbed?
SPEAKER_02Um I mean if he's saying that Jen like does something like physically uh like oh yeah, right.
SPEAKER_03What what makes it sound like saying that?
SPEAKER_02Well, if he's overriding the forces that usually do things, does that mean like there's the forces that do things and then that also like interacts with the things that does things?
SPEAKER_03Okay, yeah. So um I I'm gonna make it a little less abstract. Um does okay, hold on a second. Uh does maybe because we're at this time of year, um, but did anyone have a this time of year phrase come into their mind when they read uh negathan haga haplies shizet claw aide malach? Uh the uh yeah, machas bakoros, right? So machas bakoros in the haggadah, we quote the Michilta and we say Lo Aide Malach. Um let me just quote it from the actual Haggadah um on Alatorah. By the way, now uh I don't know, it's possible it had this last year. I just don't remember. Um Alatora, oh Moshe, this is for you, Mosha 11. Uh Alatora has now. Let me find it, hold on. It has Haggadas Ertizra El, which is like their super, you know, ancient Nusah collection, Sidra, kind of like the Sidra Arba Kantos arets. Okay, but they have Haggadah also. So rejoice. Um, but um you can unmute and say yeah later. Um okay, so what's the uh what's the drusha here? So the drusha is um Vy Yoshi Nashem Mitraim, Lo'ai de Malach, Lo Aide Saraf, Lo Aide Shaliach, not through a uh an angel, not through a fiery angel, and not through uh shaliach, um through a um an emissary. Uh I looked up the English word emissary, by the way. Um, and the etymology is send out. So emissary probably is the best word for shaliach, in case you need a way to uh uh say it. Okay. Elohakbarhu bhvodo uva atmo, okay, or bhvodo, but karku uh in his glory. Shneur vavarti bears me trim bel Hazavikol Borbiram Adama Behema Uh Elohimitram Eshvatim Aniashem Varti Vavarti bears me trim anivelo malach, Vikiko Bhakorbiar T Mitrime, Aneval Osarf, Vho Voko Elohim Trim uh Eshvatim, Anevaloshalih, Aniashem, Anihovalo Akir. Okay. So this is saying the Machas Bukhoros is through Hashem. Now getting ahead of myself here, okay. Um uh anyone have a problem with uh with the this passage in the Haggadah? If you've been around the block, you'll have a problem with it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, my problem with it was always what I was just saying.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's like Shem acts in the world through intermediary.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, right. Okay, good. So the problem is, and and I I'm open to this being challenged, either Bihlal or my understanding of the Rambam. I'm under the impression God does everything through Malachim. Okay. Um, and the clear statement from the Ramam and Khazal is in his chapter on uh Malachim, um, which is um, I'm reading the Kaqah in 2.6. Uh so he says, So we're talking about these uh separate intelligences, which is what Aristotle called them. We're only talking about the Malachim, Shem Haskalim Nadan, which are the separate intellects. The Torah does not deny that God governs existence through Malachim. When the Torah says, Let us make man in our tellem, Uva omro ha nerdah, and it says, Come let us descend, using the plural, Shaym Lash and Rabim, Amru Kiviaho, Shainakarch Barak Osa Davar, God does not do anything mistakelya shamalah, until he he uh literally contemplates with the heavenly host. Uh, take uh you'll be astonished, uh, you'll appreciate the word mistako, contemplate. Plato himself said that God contemplates the world of ideas, the world of intelligences, and and uh and the uh the existence emanates from there. Uh bistam in Hakarish Barak, Osidaver Achin nimlakbaya Shemala, God doesn't do anything without consulting the heavenly uh retinue. Upamaya hu hatsava balashan yavan. Pamaya is Greek for the army or the legion. Uh nemar odmir kohelas, is asher kvar asuhu, says in Kohelis, that which they have already done. Asahu Lo Namar, Ella Asuhu. It doesn't say that God has done, says the angels, uh says they have done. Kiviocho hu ubezdino, God and his basing nimnu al-ko ever v ever, uh uh you know, uh you know, appointed uh were appointed on each and every uh limb, Shibaka uh that is in you, and establish it in the proper place. Um be brishis rabah ko makum shenemar vadoshem hu basino. Okay, any um any time it says and hashem, it means God and his based in. Uh okay, and then he says, uh, don't think that uh it means that uh okay, I'll read the last part because of the famous line. This is not what the fools think. She is sham diburius Allah o Mahshava, that God is speaking or thinking, right? Uh uh O Ryan or thought, uh, o eta or or advice. That God is like being assisted by someone else's thoughts. How can God be assisted by what he um by what he creates? Yeah, I know Sam Altman Altman can be assisted by his uh his AI, but that's because he's not entirely creating himself. Okay. Uh El Kolzebir Kia Filu prati hamatsius. I think I'm gonna go on record. That was the first Mornavukim Sam Sam Altman AI god angel reference in history. Okay, just in case anyone's keeping the score. Um filu brias every balehakim kfi shane. So all the particulars of existence, even the creation of the limbs of animals as they are, kolzeb, emtras and malachim, everything is through angels, kikol kokos malachim, because all forces are angels. Okay, so so the problem, I know we're going into Haggadah stuff, but that's where my mind is right now. So the problem is how can we say that God did machas bahuros, not ali day malach, everything is through a malach. And then how can the Malvin say that God does miracles alone without Malachim if everything is done through Malachim? Okay, and if you want to, if you're gonna prod me and say, well, maybe they're not done through Malachim, you know, um, like maybe this is an exception. So I'll I'll answer you by answering my students' questions. So when we again, we've been talking about Malachim for the last weeks now, okay? And I'll get the question many times you're telling me that God does everything through Malachem, but why why can't we say that why does God need to do everything through Malachim? Why can't he do it himself? How would you answer that? I know I'm kind of springing this on you, and we're all at different places holding about Malachim, yeah. And I this is, I think you what you were saying earlier is the answer to this, by the way.
SPEAKER_02Um, I mean, I'm not sure this is right, but maybe I would say like um what it means to do things through Malachim is that to do things through causes in reality. Yeah. And things don't occur without a cause.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. Okay, good. That's exactly it, which is that that it's absurd to say that God does something without Malachim, because Malachim, the way I explain this in my shir, uh the you know, you can listen to the the sheer series of Malachim. The way Rahm understands Malach really is any agent or instance of causality. Anything could be called Malach or function in the capacity of Malach. So to say how you know, couldn't God do it without Malachim is like saying, could God do cause and effect without cause and effect? Like, no, like it through causality is how God the universe exists in a cause and effect framework. So God does everything through cause and effect, and we call those things, uh, those things malachim. So it just it's an absurdity to say that God would do something alone. So now the question is well, so what do we mean that God did does that either God did makus pohoros without a malach, or what does the malvin mean by God does these things without a malach? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Two options I don't know if either okay, good. One is that it's not it's not like God can't do things without like like I don't know, maybe you were saying that God can't do things without.
SPEAKER_03I was saying that, yeah, but you can you can you can theorize otherwise I'm not saying by the way, I think there are people who would disagree and say that God could do this stuff directly.
SPEAKER_02I would think like why can't God say now this thing happened, this thing is the thing has changed now, like reality is different in that spot for the right it just is yeah, you don't forget that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, right. I mean if you could do creation yeah, and because the creation was not through Malacham, that is one thing God did himself, is that because the Malachim are created, so you can't say he created Malacham and Malacham. Yeah, right. So so the in principle I agree that that could happen.
SPEAKER_02The other possibility is that it means like it's there were some there was a cause, but it's like a completely unknowable cause that no one can stop like neutrinos with them and they died because of their own.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, good, good. So that that's that is how I uh uh that's my favorite answer as well. Um, so I saw this in the thanks to the Masifta Haggadah I saw this in the Dasakanim. On so this is another classic question. If God is doing this himself, then what does it mean? Veloyitinha mashkhis lavo el batechambling golf. God will not allow the mashkhis to enter into your house to destroy. That makes it sound like he was destroying through a mashis. Okay, masivtahagada has 13 answers to that, 11 answers, whatever. First one is the Dasakanim, who says, Kasha Laharav Mosha. I don't know which word of Moshe this is, tahabhagada ksi vavarti bears me trime, anival malach. Okay, that's a kasha. This is what I'm gonna read it and I'll tell you what I think it is. Ani bihvodi, the gamha malach. So I in my glory, and also a malach, vloha malach lavadok, kilo yitaritz cane, she ha karomalach. Okay, so so I think what he's saying is it obviously means God and the malach, because you can't say that God did something without a malach, but what it means is Hashem Bihvodo. Okay, so what does that mean? So I and I I believe I've heard Rabbi Chait say this that in the Haggadah, what it means, Lo Aide Malach means that all the other makos you could chalk up to just being on Hagah TVs, okay. But nature does not target firstborns, okay. And yes, there are Rishonimold that like you know, that was a natural thing, and Ibn Kashbi holds that it killed things other than firstborns, also. And he says, you know, just all the firstborns every firstborn, that's just an exaggeration. But uh, you know, um what? Oh uh it sounds like him, right? I don't know what he does. So so what so what does it mean that Inivelomalach? It means that it was evident that it was God, it was anibi kvoti vlomalach, meaning that that that it was clear that it was not being done through independently operating malachim. This was God controlling them. And I think you can you can say that that's what the Malvin meant. And I don't think this is uh forcing it into the Malmin. I think when it says, so it doesn't when you first read it, it sounds like he's saying God does this without a malach, but then he says, um yafli plus bo koho hagato. I think the way to interpret this is when God does miracles, he's wielding the laws of nature in ways that are not based on their Hanhaga Tava, which is not possible for them to do. So the only the only one who can control nature is God. Laws of nature cannot manipulate each other or manipulate themselves in ways that are unusual. You know, so it was it was God who was uh who was doing that. So only God is the, and this is just uh a natural continuation of the first point, that only God is the Eloch Hilohim, and so only He can do wonders with them. Now, is that what the Malbin means? I don't know his metaphysics, so I know if he holds that God really can do stuff directly, but if if the Malbin is gonna be consistent with this premise, I think you could read the Malbin that way. Yeah, and that's how I want to read it in terms of the uh the the uh the the the peric.
SPEAKER_01I think it's mikutsi.
SPEAKER_03I think that's uh that's my guess.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um okay, now onward, okay. We're at laoose hashimain bisfuna, choser el hanhagas hateva. This goes back to the sateva. I felt vindicated at this point in my methodology of Talem, because if you'll remember, I don't know which last parac we did that we had this, is in my pivot point theory, we have several variants of pivot point. One of them is the hinge, where you have um a shared positive that goes on both halves. Another one is the um uh, you know, the what like what we have here is you start theme A and then theme B, and then at the very end you go back. But then you have what I call the Venetian blind uh prakim, where you have A, B, A, B, A, B, where you switch back and forth throughout the parak. And look what he's doing. He's clearly saying, by the way, I mean, I should have said this before, what is his pivot? His pivot is Hanhaga Sateva and Hanhaga Saniflaus, right? So he starts off Olif through Gimel is Hanhaga Sateva, Dalad is Hanaga Pilais, He through Vav is Hanagh Sateva again, you know? So he holds that you can go back and forth between the two themes. All right, so Eshmaim Asabatuna, Ukuvarbi Arnazibir uh Pirish Mishle, Shabukamkumiti Yachas Hachma El Brias uh Arets, Batvuna el Malachashmaim. So he doesn't he doesn't quote it there, but what he's referring to is um Mishlay Gimel. Um Mishle Gimel is um uh Gimel Yotes, Arashem Bo Chokma Yasad Arets, Kone Shmain Bitvuna. Okay, so the arets is Chachma, the Shmaim is Tvuna. And then he says, so this is his definition. I'm not familiar with this firsthand, but he says, Um Kya Chokhma Tavchimbein Tov the Ra. Chachma involves distinctions between Tov and Ra. Okay. Batvuna, Tovchimbein Emma Vishekir. Okay, and if you're familiar with the Rambom's Tovra emasheker in the Moravukam second chapter, fundamental distinction. Okay, but I think he using that same definitions of Tovra Ra here or um I don't know, but uh I learn it that way. Um, yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Rambaum for Kripkin.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. What am I supposed to do? I'm you know, um, okay. Um the Hashimayim him kayamim beish. I don't know what he means by Hashimaim Kayamim Ba'ish. Um uh usually beans like as an entity uh or as a phenomenon on its own. I'm not sure what he's getting at here. Uh it's also weird. Hashimaim kayamim beish. But his point is that there's no tov and ra in the shemayim. Okay, back then they thought that there's no Tov that the heavens are made of a different substance and operate based on different things. Um the way we would say this now is uh that there's no Ra in the laws of nature. Okay, Ra is only in uh on the physical in in the physical changing world. Yeah, I do. No, he wasn't. That what? Oh, that the heavens are made of a different substance? Yeah. Um uh well that's the interesting thing. So yeah, you're right. He might not hold that, but he no, no, no, no. I uh yeah, that's a good point. I I think what he means is there's no that's interesting. I mean, even we say there's okay, well, it depends on how broadly you find Tovin Ra. Oh, I I cannot talk about this one in this part of E over right now. Um, because I'm I'm literally uh doing this uh this chapter right now, like today. Um, so let's let's leave this suspend. You'll see where he's going with this uh when he gets to Klay Soapart. Lokin arts, not on the earth, though. Okay, you can't have Tovin Ra on the earth. Rokaha arts almaim, key now. This is a funny idea, he says here. And this is gonna raise questions about when the Malvin lived uh and and what they knew and didn't know. In the beginning, the earth was covered with water, right? That's the in the in the braces, the let the water separate and then reveal dry land. So the earth used to be covered with water. Ba'amar baza behove la ose, l'aroka. This is a good good deal here. It says la ose hashraman biswina uh and uh la roca, these are all in the present tense, why? As opposed to the past, it should be the past tense. Because God is continually renewing creation. This is going back to like the Radox point. The preservation of the creation is a continual creation. Uvaaret yesh ifsharus tamid, this is the part that I don't know what what he held, shitaksor el hatohuva vohu, kvatkhila. You could say that the earth might return to the tow and vohu like in the beginning. So I don't know if he's saying that like the earth could go back into the depths if God doesn't preserve it there, or if he's saying that the entire, like, just as it used to be to vavo, and then God created everything, that everything could return to chaos. Not sure what he's saying. Because the Ruka or sounds like the water, the earth on the waters, that like God brought the earth out of the waters and he's holding it there.
SPEAKER_02I don't know if they thought you know, mobbin isn't there an idea of like that the flood coming in like once every 1300.
SPEAKER_03Well, that was a mistake, right? That was a mistake that the the door uh made made. Was it? Yeah, right, right. Yeah. Um, so so I I I don't Mobbin was at the dawn of geology, of like modern geology. So I don't know what they thought if the continents are afloat. I just don't know what they thought about the I know they discovered tectonic plates, but I don't know what they thought about the continents at his time. But I was talking about, you know, it seems like in the old in, you know, I I think people did think, for example, that like islands were like floating on on the ocean, you know. Um, so I so Ken suggested we still could say in a we can update this in a modern way to say that like there's nothing that necessitates that the surface of the earth has to be habitable and solid. Because there are planets where there is turbulent volcanic activity, or it's too hot, or it's a gas planet where there's no surface to speak of, you know. So there is a chesed, you can say a chesed in the fact that this planet has land that is not on liquid or tovavoho. So I think that's like a modern a good modern way to update it.
SPEAKER_01I mean, isn't I thought it was coming up lately? Isn't it extremely hard to find any other yeah, right?
SPEAKER_03But I'm saying with the Rokah arts online, like like that that imagery.
SPEAKER_01So we are on not not exactly in life, but to just find like I think that's just a category to play as a oh interesting.
SPEAKER_03Okay, I didn't know that, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Have like land or water or like one or both yeah, okay, interesting.
SPEAKER_03Right. I mean we've got a couple of them in our solar system, right? Mars. Yeah. Um, okay.
SPEAKER_01I don't know why you had like water.
SPEAKER_03Oh, fine. I was just talking about the solid part. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Ose oring gadolim, the gum, beze, rabucha sadav shashemesh tayer bayom vaierehbalila. Um, so this is going back to the natural. Um uh also the uh the the sun the sun illuminates by day and the moon by night. So this is one of the wonders of Hajjgaha. I don't think he's saying this is miraculous because he quotes Barkinafshi. Shibzeha Lila Tirmos kol Hai So Ya are Pa Adam Yenuhmanato, Vizracha Shemeshi Yasefun, Aincham. So Barkhinafshi is describing all the natural um you know things that work out. The man goes to work during the day and the creatures come out at night, all that other stuff. Okay, now we get to Hajjgaka miraculous. We're almost at the end, uh, and we've got to theorize. Lamake, atamafar shani honey flowers. Now it explains the the wonders. Through Machasbuchoros, God took us out, uh took Israel out with a strong hand. Those wonders were for the sake of redeeming Israel. Uv Machas Bukhoros, Haya Haraa, now you okay. Remember we I said before there's the Tov and the Ra on the earth. So I think this is what he's getting at. Uh Machas Bhoros, Haya Hara'a Sheh Gil Mitrim, La Takhlis Tovas Israel. The Ra that befell the Mitrim was for the good of Israel. To take them out of there. The Akharkah Bameshagazar Yam Sufla Gazarim Behavi Israel Besoho Haya Ikur Hanais la Raas Ha Mitrim La Khalosim. There, the Ikar Hanais was for the uh the punishment of the Mitriim to drown them, to destroy them. Kyaya's Israel Abbiov and Ahir. God could have saved us in another way. Um, Vagam Shadashem Hikhaas Libov Akar Yisrael, God hardened Paris' heart to chase after Israel, Vhose Hayakide Lahat Bia as a Mitrium Biyam. All of this was ordered in order to drown the Egyptians in the Yam. Like Yisra says, that with the very thing, I always don't know how to translate that. That God gave the Miser Middle McKnegamida, right? That that's the that's what that's referring to.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_03Uh because they oppressed us and then God killed them for disfalling us. Yeah. I don't uh I think there is an idea that people say about that. I don't remember what it was. Okay, so that so now you have two examples. You have to for for us that brought about Ra for the Egyptians in Machas Bakoros, and then Ra for the Egyptians that I brought about to for us in Prios Yamsef. Okay. So bear the keep those in mind. Now this is a cool shot. Lamolik Amal Bamidbar. So what what before we read this? What did you think Lamolik Amul Bamidbar? What chesed of Hashem is that? No, no, Bamidbar. Yeah, okay, Anayakabo, the man, the everything we needed. Everything we need, right? He says different. Okay, and this is much better. Lamolik, who guided Vagamzehaya Mehastain, Limdu Lidaas Darha Torah. So through guiding us in the Midbar for four years, God taught us his the ways of Hashem in his Torah. Ulahashlifum Milavavam Haraiim Shanachalimina Mitrim and to cast out from their hearts the evil imaginings, fantasies that they inherited from the middle. Through going to the midbar and making them suffer, then they they in they got the land of Sihan and Og. So again, this is another case where they had to go through suffering, and that ended up being good for them. Vizeshane uh lamakimalachim gedolim, not some lanachlah, that's what it's referring to there, that he that they struck great kings and then he gave them their land as an inheritance. That even though there was a lot of Midas Haddin in the midbar and it was harsh conditions, Hayamitsad Chasadov Rachmab, it was from God's Khesid in Rachim, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Kind of funny to me because like we learn Shah taught us a lot about his ways through taking us through the midbar a long time, but it kind of sounded like if you read the Torah, it sounded like that was not the ideal way for things to go. Ideally, we wouldn't have done Heide all and uh it would have taken a few days.
SPEAKER_03You mean Miraglam?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Miraglam. Yeah, right, right. Um wasn't supposed to be 40 years. I don't know if he's referring specifically to 40 years.
SPEAKER_03Right. Okay, so I'm gonna refer people to my uh Shadal's article uh article, um, or Shadal Shadal's radical thing on 40 years in the wilderness. Um so I don't know what the moblem holds, but I I uh I uh I do think it's interesting, just the the the um what do you call it? The oh I I put I I I didn't bury the lead. What if I told you that Israel were not condemned to wander in the for in the wilderness for 40 years as a punishment for the sinner of the spies? So he holds that that was Lachathilah what the plan was. Okay, so I don't know what the word of the mom falls on that, but like um, but even still, what Hashem did for us in the Midbar was teaching us his ways, whether whether it was our fault that we got stuck there for 40 years, he did teach us our ways, and there was me just in, but it was it was for our good, you know. Okay, last two paragraphs. The second to the last one we could not figure out. Okay, so this is the one we need to I need help with uh the most. She be shifling zakarlano that in our lowliness he remembered us. All of the nisim that he did for us in abundance in the past, Ba'var, who hasid, is a uh I don't know how to translate Haskalah here in the in the best way, but it's like a setup for the future. She bhkol ace shiflenu, at every time that we were low or that we are low, yizzachir lanu. I don't know how exactly how to nucleify that, then he will recall for us the earlier miracles, via forkenu, and remove us from our tsara, kikola sher yase halukim, everything that God does, who yi he lalam, it will be forever. That's a quote quote from Kohelas. If so, the miracles and the ga'ula that occurred in the past are guarded for the future. So when I saw this, I was like, oh, this sounds like an important idea in the Seder. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um this is something I was thinking about like last time. Yeah. Um, which is the maybe like the all the miracles that we mentioned earlier in the pair were like not only miracles for them, but also like part of setting up reality the way that Chim wants it to be now. Yeah. And so like whatever things that come about, like against stars that happen in the world, Chen set up the world with a framework that's able to like handle them.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um I don't know how that's yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Okay, I I I I I hear I hear your approach. I I just want to point out the thing, I don't know if this will help you refine it, but the thing that he is commenting on here, which he has not commented on until now, is what's the key little lum hustle part? Okay, like the Radak is the one who said that it's like it, you know, the universe is uh you know will will continue to last. Here he's saying that the the miracles that God did for us in the past were not just for our ancestors, but they're set up for us now, and they are little because they're for the future. So I feel like that's a big clue, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I think that's kind of uh I found Dimikola's even point that we would have to either our ancestors used up our merits or that we don't have merits. But I and and they did miracles, but that was like you know, extra things onto a a system that onto a natural system that you know we can only uh on a system that by itself doesn't really affect it affects your lives. Uh I said my point there somewhere. Okay, but the point after that is I think you and then therefore you would think that I forgot my point.
SPEAKER_03Oh, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, uh final thing for a little bit. Yeah, like when Jim set up like uh Torah and gave the people all those ideas in Bitcar all you say beneath them and also like the nib for us earlier. Yeah. Um and now that we have gotten that stuff and those teachings, those ideas, we're able to handle things like we're gonna do that. Okay, okay. But like we we know how to approach them.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, okay. Okay, so that that's good. So that that I think is gonna merge with uh with uh what Ken and I are gonna say.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know you know your point?
SPEAKER_02And the difference for this we should always say no. Yeah, this is the reality that obviously the Abbas can have our stuff up uh participant than participant in you guys, um, and perhaps even the different stuff of cluster based on the desert. That doesn't it they're not they're not isolated events, uh events, right? Each each uh each race still has impact on you guys, insofar as you are members of insofar as that I mean I think it's two points that A that because they exist within nature, so everything that exists within nature now is uh effects, and we'll always only do good effects. And B, insofar as you're part of uh you thrall, then how those effects specifically affect uh an A thrall will also continue to infuriate.
SPEAKER_03Okay, all right. So let me say actually, let me do this. I'm gonna read the last thing and then let's attempt to unify these uh these approaches here because I also have something to add here. Um I think we're on the same track. I think we'll see. Last line is no sense lacham lukhbazar, Vagam Mizono Shaamru Khazal Bat Mazla talya, even man's food, which Khazal say is la bizhuzatayim this ala bamazla, that's dependent on Mazal, B'emeshuha Nosin Lakham Luchh Bazar. God is still the one who gives bread to all flesh. Hagam Shinir Shizebaminashmaim Hamaracha, even though it seems like it comes from the heavens and the constellations, hodilakelashmaim, give thanks to the to the God of heaven, who amanhigas hamaracha. He's the one who who governs the uh the constellations. The ikra mazun vatovos, yotos mito, and the I don't know why it says ikr, but the mazon and the tovos come from him. Shako Yotem Mhazadav Ashrahim Mas Midos Laolam. All everything comes from his khasid, which is perpetual. Okay, so the thing that that we need to unify here is the theme of the parakeahim clearly is hanhaga tivis and hanhaga niflaos. Okay, so we need to take that into account. That's one thing. Second thing is his distinction between there's no tov and ra in the heavens, there's just ambition shekir, but there's tov and ra on earth. And then there's this idea that that there are cases where there's tov to one party and ra to the other party. I feel like he keeps on mentioning that point. Okay. So I uh so let me tell you what I think Ken said. And I think this does touch on aspects of what you guys are saying, but let's see if we can put it together. So again, this is like a last-minute idea that that we didn't really get a chance to develop. That Bracius is uh Brecius is Tovma Od. Okay, everything God does is good, okay. From our perspective, we divvy all that up into different categories, like Hanhaga TVs and Hanhaga uh nifla, you know, uh uh niflaos and tov and ra and mazzle and not mazzle, but it's all unified from God's perspective. From God's perspective, it's just kilo lam casto, that God is just being mashpia tov to us. And the trick is to be able to see within these different categories the underlying unity, and to see that, for example, even the raw that we suffered in the midbar and all the pain and stuff like that was to bring us to Tove, because everything God does is Tov. And even the punishment that the midstream had was Mishpat, which keep us out, but Mishpat is part of God's Tov. And and we can't mistake the multiplicity of manifestations for a multiplicity of an underlying cause. It's all Hashem Echad, who is the Bori Olam who created a world that's that's Tov Ma'od, and it's all chesed from God. So that's what we came up with. Uh now why did I think that was in line with the aspects of what you were saying? Draw my memory about what you were saying again. I don't see if I can link it together.
SPEAKER_02Um that the tovs that he did then prepared us to be able to handle difficult things now.
SPEAKER_03Uh okay, yeah, yeah. So so so that's going on the Lassie Lavo point. Okay, so I I want to take that one step further, which is that when a human being does a Tove, it could just be for the that finite particular. Okay, so for example, like like I don't know, like you rescue someone, right? So you're rescuing that person. Now there may be other effects and stuff like that. That's not part of your plan. You're just rescuing this particular. When God does Tove for Klaw Israel back then, he's not just taking Israelites out of Egyptian slavery, he's setting up the entire system to culminate in the giving of the Torah and the bringing of all of humanity to an ultimate state of Shalom and Edius Hashem. So he's he that's everything that he did that was a nas that was a haskalah for them, sorry, that was a nas for them, is a haskalah for La Asid. So all of God's Tovas back then are paving the way for a continuation of that tovah in into now. So that's the point that I was saying it was in line with that. Yeah, and Mosha, what was your point again?
SPEAKER_02Oh my point was that we think maybe we ran out of merits that they only Ah, okay, right.
SPEAKER_03So that's another thing, also, is that that that it is true that they can run out of merits, right? But the point is it's not like this is a you go to the store and if you don't have money, then too bad you don't get candy. Like, and that's it, and the store doesn't really care. Here, the point is to bring Claude Israel to a state where he probably fulfills the promises to the Avos and then brings Claw Israel to Eris Israel, and then we have all of humanity flourishing, you know. That that that's why he helps us in in our in our shift list, because it's not just based on us and our merits, it's based on us contributing to this lazy lava vision, you know. So that's what we came up with for the Malvin. But I'll say whether or not this is what the Malvin has. I do think that this has the same effect as what we theorized for why we should end the Seder with this, which is that it's very tempting when you do the Seder to focus entirely on claw Israel and on miraculous Hajjgakha. And what you need is a reminder that, yes, the you know, the um, oh sorry, you need a reminder that uh hold on. You need a reminder that Judaism, as seen through the eyes of the scholars of the Talmud, has its own unique religious orientation. Uh while, all right, is this this is the this is this essay?
unknownI don't want to get up for it.
SPEAKER_03I think so. Uh this is Rebbe's Tormi Sinai essay, but he says, um, while basing itself on a cataclysmic event, revelation, it does not look to miracles as the source of its intimate relationship with God. God's revelation at Sinai was a one-time occurrence, never to be repeated. Oh, that's another good example, by the way, right? Uh, this is expressed in in Varium 5.19, a great voice which was never heard again. In the mind of the Talmudic scholar, God continuously reveals himself not through miracles, but through the wisdom of his laws. These laws manifest themselves in the Torah, the written, and the oral, and in nature, Kilulam Khasto. Okay, meaning that that that in this night where we're preoccupied with claystral and miracles and our fate, the mob also has this, you know, uh this direction of realizing no, this is all particular expressions of the Tova Brachius that God is doing as the Bore Olam. So it's it's the same point that we made, only our emphasis was different, but it's the same like trans the same type of transformation that's trying to make us go through. So I think it's it is a good way to end the uh the Seder. Now, what remains to be seen is, and I would like to do the Suggya, uh, I heard Rapesak is doing Birkas Ashir um in his uh in his shear, uh, but Birkas Ashir, Halaha Guttal, and then the fifth cup, and see if we can like get an insight into where this is supposed to be in the Seder. Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, our first I was thinking it was just about kind of recognizes that in you know, but honor ourselves with the uh you have to remember what our purpose is, then we can go back and read any of the other shabba. Yeah. But if it but this is specifically trying to say that not just remember what our purpose was, but how the ask how the historical events are guiding us for that history.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03In even in the yeah, exactly, yeah, right. That's good. Okay, good parak. Another good peric. All right. Uh so we believe netter, we will continue after Pesa with uh Ms. Roshiela Mashabas. Right, that's the next one.