{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.3,"body":"Restorative"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.3,"body":"practice isn't about removing"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":3.3,"endTime":7.5,"body":"consequences per se. It's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":3.3,"endTime":7.5,"body":"actually about replacing one"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":7.5,"endTime":11.85,"body":"kind of consequence, the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":7.5,"endTime":11.85,"body":"artificial meaningless kind with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":11.88,"endTime":16.08,"body":"another, natural consequences."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":11.88,"endTime":16.08,"body":"And we have to make sure our"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":16.08,"endTime":20.13,"body":"staff as well as our children"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":16.08,"endTime":20.13,"body":"and parents hear that message"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":20.13,"endTime":21.36,"body":"loud and clear."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":21.78,"endTime":24.36,"body":"Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":21.78,"endTime":24.36,"body":"school behaviour secrets"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":24.36,"endTime":27.78,"body":"podcast. I'm your host, Simon"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":24.36,"endTime":27.78,"body":"Currigan. My co host is Emma"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":27.78,"endTime":31.41,"body":"Shackleton and we're obsessed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":27.78,"endTime":31.41,"body":"with helping teachers, school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":31.41,"endTime":34.32,"body":"leaders, parents, and of course,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":31.41,"endTime":34.32,"body":"students. When classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":34.32,"endTime":37.35,"body":"behaviour gets in the way of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":34.32,"endTime":37.35,"body":"success. We're gonna share the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":37.35,"endTime":39.87,"body":"tried and tested secrets to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":37.35,"endTime":39.87,"body":"classroom management,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":39.87,"endTime":43.41,"body":"behavioural special needs, whole"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":39.87,"endTime":43.41,"body":"school strategy and more all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":43.41,"endTime":46.23,"body":"with the aim of helping your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":43.41,"endTime":46.23,"body":"students reach their true"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":46.23,"endTime":49.65,"body":"potential. Plus, we'll be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":46.23,"endTime":49.65,"body":"letting you eavesdrop on our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":49.65,"endTime":52.77,"body":"conversations with thought"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":49.65,"endTime":52.77,"body":"leaders from around the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":52.92,"endTime":56.61,"body":"So you'll get to hear the latest"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":52.92,"endTime":56.61,"body":"evidence based strategies before"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":56.64,"endTime":60.87,"body":"anyone else. This is the school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":56.64,"endTime":60.87,"body":"behaviour secrets podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":61.35,"endTime":64.2,"body":"Hi there, Simon Currigan here"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":61.35,"endTime":64.2,"body":"and I'd like to welcome you to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":64.2,"endTime":67.71,"body":"this episode of school behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":64.2,"endTime":67.71,"body":"secrets. And this week I like to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":67.71,"endTime":72.75,"body":"open with the words of Thomas"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":67.71,"endTime":72.75,"body":"Fuller. In 1732. He said, \"We"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":72.78,"endTime":75.75,"body":"are born crying, live"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":72.78,"endTime":75.75,"body":"complaining and die"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":75.75,"endTime":79.11,"body":"disappointed\". Now imagine how"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":75.75,"endTime":79.11,"body":"much deeper his misery would"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":79.11,"endTime":82.47,"body":"have been if he'd heard this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":79.11,"endTime":82.47,"body":"podcast. I'm joined by my co"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":82.47,"endTime":84.15,"body":"host, Emma Shackleton. Hi, Emma."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":84.18,"endTime":85.2,"body":"Hi, Simon."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":85.44,"endTime":88.5,"body":"Emma, I've got a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":85.44,"endTime":88.5,"body":"quick question for you. What is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":88.5,"endTime":91.2,"body":"the worst apology you've ever"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":88.5,"endTime":91.2,"body":"received?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":91.23,"endTime":93.51,"body":"Well I'm"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":91.23,"endTime":93.51,"body":"guessing an apology that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":93.51,"endTime":97.59,"body":"includes a 'but' is a pretty"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":93.51,"endTime":97.59,"body":"poor apology. So you know the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":97.59,"endTime":101.46,"body":"format where somebody says I'm"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":97.59,"endTime":101.46,"body":"sorry about this, but you did"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":101.46,"endTime":105.72,"body":"this. So not really an apology,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":101.46,"endTime":105.72,"body":"but an excuse for someone to try"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":105.72,"endTime":108.27,"body":"and wiggle off the hook or blame"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":105.72,"endTime":108.27,"body":"me for the thing that went"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":108.27,"endTime":111.36,"body":"wrong. Something that springs to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":108.27,"endTime":111.36,"body":"mind is a long time ago, when I"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":111.36,"endTime":114.93,"body":"was working in pupil referral"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":111.36,"endTime":114.93,"body":"unit, a child had thrown a book"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":114.93,"endTime":118.11,"body":"that hit me on the head. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":114.93,"endTime":118.11,"body":"later on, he did come to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":118.11,"endTime":122.52,"body":"apologise to me, but it went"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":118.11,"endTime":122.52,"body":"along the lines of this. He said"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":122.55,"endTime":126.87,"body":"sorry, you made me throw the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":122.55,"endTime":126.87,"body":"book. But you shouldn't have"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":126.87,"endTime":132.09,"body":"told me to do maths. So you know"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":126.87,"endTime":132.09,"body":"that boy had quite a long way to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":132.09,"endTime":136.11,"body":"go with his sincere apologies."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":132.09,"endTime":136.11,"body":"How is this relevant this week?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":136.11,"endTime":138.81,"body":"Simon, have you done something"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":136.11,"endTime":138.81,"body":"wrong? Do you need to tell me"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":138.81,"endTime":139.47,"body":"something?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":139.72,"endTime":141.64,"body":"And not that I'm"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":139.72,"endTime":141.64,"body":"going to admit on air. It's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":141.64,"endTime":144.91,"body":"because this week's programme is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":141.64,"endTime":144.91,"body":"all about restorative"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":144.91,"endTime":148.75,"body":"conversations and the mistakes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":144.91,"endTime":148.75,"body":"that many schools make when they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":148.75,"endTime":151.93,"body":"introduce restorative practice"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":148.75,"endTime":151.93,"body":"into their schools. And that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":151.93,"endTime":154.75,"body":"practice is all about restoring"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":151.93,"endTime":154.75,"body":"the damage that's been done"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":154.75,"endTime":158.44,"body":"between two people restoring the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":154.75,"endTime":158.44,"body":"relationship in a way that the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":158.44,"endTime":161.68,"body":"child who threw the maths book"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":158.44,"endTime":161.68,"body":"in your example clearly failed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":161.71,"endTime":163.72,"body":"to do so didn't take"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":161.71,"endTime":163.72,"body":"responsibility for their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":163.72,"endTime":167.53,"body":"actions. So if you're a school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":163.72,"endTime":167.53,"body":"about to start a journey towards"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":167.53,"endTime":170.08,"body":"restorative practice, I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":167.53,"endTime":170.08,"body":"definitely recommend you get a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":170.08,"endTime":172.84,"body":"pad and pencil because we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":170.08,"endTime":172.84,"body":"going to cover a lot of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":172.84,"endTime":175.63,"body":"information that you are going"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":172.84,"endTime":175.63,"body":"to find useful to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":175.63,"endTime":179.2,"body":"your journey towards restorative"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":175.63,"endTime":179.2,"body":"conversations is a positive one,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":179.47,"endTime":180.7,"body":"and avoids these pitfalls."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":180.78,"endTime":183.27,"body":"But before we"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":180.78,"endTime":183.27,"body":"get into the details, please"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":183.3,"endTime":186.78,"body":"share this episode with two or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":183.3,"endTime":186.78,"body":"three friends or colleagues who"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":186.78,"endTime":190.86,"body":"just like you are committed to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":186.78,"endTime":190.86,"body":"improving children's lives and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":190.86,"endTime":194.88,"body":"experience of school and who you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":190.86,"endTime":194.88,"body":"think might benefit from hearing"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":194.88,"endTime":199.08,"body":"this podcast. All you've got to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":194.88,"endTime":199.08,"body":"do is open your podcast app hits"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":199.08,"endTime":202.35,"body":"the share button, and you'll be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":199.08,"endTime":202.35,"body":"able to send them a direct link,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":202.44,"endTime":205.38,"body":"it takes less than 30 seconds."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":202.44,"endTime":205.38,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":205.39,"endTime":207.79,"body":"So let's head"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":205.39,"endTime":207.79,"body":"out into the jungle, pull a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":207.79,"endTime":211.18,"body":"banana and tease down from the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":207.79,"endTime":211.18,"body":"branches that flea ridden duffer"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":211.18,"endTime":212.98,"body":"monkey we call behaviour."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":213.03,"endTime":216.54,"body":"So here is the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":213.03,"endTime":216.54,"body":"first mistake that leadership"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":216.54,"endTime":219.84,"body":"team make when they're trying to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":216.54,"endTime":219.84,"body":"introduce restorative practice"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":219.84,"endTime":223.62,"body":"in school. So one thing that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":219.84,"endTime":223.62,"body":"they do is they talk about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":223.62,"endTime":229.5,"body":"restorative practice as if it's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":223.62,"endTime":229.5,"body":"removing consequences entirely."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":229.53,"endTime":233.22,"body":"The problem with traditional"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":229.53,"endTime":233.22,"body":"consequences is that they're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":233.22,"endTime":237.63,"body":"artificial. So there's no"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":233.22,"endTime":237.63,"body":"logical link between say, having"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":237.63,"endTime":242.04,"body":"a detention or staying in at"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":237.63,"endTime":242.04,"body":"playtime, or having a fixed term"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":242.04,"endTime":246.03,"body":"exclusion, and the child's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":242.04,"endTime":246.03,"body":"original behaviour. So if the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":246.03,"endTime":249.15,"body":"child's been calling out in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":246.03,"endTime":249.15,"body":"class on a Monday, and they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":249.15,"endTime":253.23,"body":"receive a detention for that on"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":249.15,"endTime":253.23,"body":"a Wednesday, that consequence"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":253.26,"endTime":257.13,"body":"isn't logical. It's not linked"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":253.26,"endTime":257.13,"body":"to the perceived crime. It's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":257.16,"endTime":261.21,"body":"artificial. Although we're using"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":257.16,"endTime":261.21,"body":"that consequence as a punishment"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":261.24,"endTime":264.33,"body":"to deter that behaviour in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":261.24,"endTime":264.33,"body":"future. It's just not"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":264.33,"endTime":267.42,"body":"meaningfully related. There's no"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":264.33,"endTime":267.42,"body":"clear link."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":267.48,"endTime":269.76,"body":"As we've said"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":267.48,"endTime":269.76,"body":"before, the best consequences"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":269.76,"endTime":274.71,"body":"are natural consequences, those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":269.76,"endTime":274.71,"body":"consequences that flow logically"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":274.74,"endTime":278.58,"body":"and naturally from the offence."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":274.74,"endTime":278.58,"body":"So a natural consequence might"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":278.58,"endTime":282.54,"body":"be helping repair a display that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":278.58,"endTime":282.54,"body":"you've torn down in your own"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":282.54,"endTime":285.57,"body":"time after school or at"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":282.54,"endTime":285.57,"body":"lunchtime or playtime, or say"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":285.63,"endTime":288.93,"body":"writing a public post on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":285.63,"endTime":288.93,"body":"Facebook apologising to someone"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":288.96,"endTime":293.28,"body":"that you've made unkind posts"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":288.96,"endTime":293.28,"body":"about, or replacing a piece of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":293.28,"endTime":296.34,"body":"equipment that you deliberately"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":293.28,"endTime":296.34,"body":"damaged through your own pocket"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":296.34,"endTime":300.48,"body":"money or say, using your labour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":296.34,"endTime":300.48,"body":"to pay for it. So maybe You're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":300.48,"endTime":303.9,"body":"going to work through lunchtime,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":300.48,"endTime":303.9,"body":"supporting in the dining room,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":304.05,"endTime":308.49,"body":"doing some mopping and sweeping"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":304.05,"endTime":308.49,"body":"and clearing up to help pay for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":308.49,"endTime":311.04,"body":"new equipment with your time and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":308.49,"endTime":311.04,"body":"with your labour."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":311.07,"endTime":313.53,"body":"It's kind of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":311.07,"endTime":313.53,"body":"that old saying of letting the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":313.53,"endTime":317.97,"body":"punishment fit the crime. So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":313.53,"endTime":317.97,"body":"it's a logical consequence. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":317.97,"endTime":321.78,"body":"in the case of restorative"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":317.97,"endTime":321.78,"body":"practice, we actively involve"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":321.78,"endTime":326.16,"body":"the child in working out what"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":321.78,"endTime":326.16,"body":"they think is a fair way to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":326.16,"endTime":328.11,"body":"repair the harm that was caused."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":328.0,"endTime":329.53,"body":"And that's why"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":328.0,"endTime":329.53,"body":"it's really powerful because it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":329.53,"endTime":332.98,"body":"helps them understand the impact"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":329.53,"endTime":332.98,"body":"of their actions on other people"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":333.01,"endTime":335.77,"body":"and the kind of things they need"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":333.01,"endTime":335.77,"body":"to do to put that situation"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":335.77,"endTime":338.32,"body":"right. Now, sometimes for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":335.77,"endTime":338.32,"body":"smaller offences, it is going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":338.32,"endTime":341.32,"body":"be enough to say, sorry, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":338.32,"endTime":341.32,"body":"promise not to repeat the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":341.32,"endTime":344.89,"body":"behaviour, often in life, that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":341.32,"endTime":344.89,"body":"enough. But just saying sorry,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":344.89,"endTime":348.07,"body":"and promising not to repeat what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":344.89,"endTime":348.07,"body":"you've done in the past, won't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":348.07,"endTime":349.9,"body":"be the answer for everything."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":349.93,"endTime":353.56,"body":"So if we try to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":349.93,"endTime":353.56,"body":"remove all consequences, and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":353.56,"endTime":357.61,"body":"then we send that message to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":353.56,"endTime":357.61,"body":"children and parents, that our"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":357.61,"endTime":361.18,"body":"behaviour won't result in a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":357.61,"endTime":361.18,"body":"consequence anymore, we've got"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":361.18,"endTime":365.05,"body":"to be really careful, because if"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":361.18,"endTime":365.05,"body":"we're not careful, we're also"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":365.05,"endTime":368.08,"body":"sending the message to some"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":365.05,"endTime":368.08,"body":"children that you can do"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":368.08,"endTime":370.72,"body":"whatever you want now, because"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":368.08,"endTime":370.72,"body":"there won't be a consequence to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":370.72,"endTime":371.2,"body":"follow"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":371.41,"endTime":373.0,"body":"That"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":371.41,"endTime":373.0,"body":"consequence, it's so important"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":373.0,"endTime":375.82,"body":"that it's both meaningful and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":373.0,"endTime":375.82,"body":"proportionate to the harm that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":375.82,"endTime":377.77,"body":"was done. There's a group of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":375.82,"endTime":377.77,"body":"people that I call the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":377.8,"endTime":381.46,"body":"optimizers. And when they hear"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":377.8,"endTime":381.46,"body":"the anything goes message, we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":381.46,"endTime":384.49,"body":"have to be really careful and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":381.46,"endTime":384.49,"body":"take their actions into account."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":384.55,"endTime":389.47,"body":"The optimizers are people who"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":384.55,"endTime":389.47,"body":"are extremely extrinsically"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":389.53,"endTime":394.63,"body":"motivated. So they will toe the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":389.53,"endTime":394.63,"body":"line behave well for rewards or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":394.63,"endTime":397.09,"body":"to avoid consequences because"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":394.63,"endTime":397.09,"body":"they don't want to lose"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":397.09,"endTime":400.06,"body":"something. Lots of us in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":397.09,"endTime":400.06,"body":"education are intrinsically"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":400.06,"endTime":402.55,"body":"motivated, which means we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":400.06,"endTime":402.55,"body":"doing the right thing, because"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":402.55,"endTime":404.47,"body":"it's the right thing. Now, this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":402.55,"endTime":404.47,"body":"is coming from completely the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":404.47,"endTime":407.32,"body":"opposite end of view. And this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":404.47,"endTime":407.32,"body":"group of people is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":407.32,"endTime":412.27,"body":"reasonably small. But if they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":407.32,"endTime":412.27,"body":"believe there's no external"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":412.27,"endTime":415.06,"body":"reason, no external pressure to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":412.27,"endTime":415.06,"body":"do the right thing, or not do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":415.06,"endTime":418.39,"body":"the wrong thing, then what they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":415.06,"endTime":418.39,"body":"hear is, anything goes, you can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":418.39,"endTime":421.09,"body":"do anything, you want free"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":418.39,"endTime":421.09,"body":"choice time, no one's going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":421.09,"endTime":424.87,"body":"stop you there are no"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":421.09,"endTime":424.87,"body":"consequences for acting in a way"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":424.87,"endTime":427.42,"body":"that impacts on other people."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":424.87,"endTime":427.42,"body":"Because they care about their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":427.42,"endTime":430.33,"body":"own experience. They're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":427.42,"endTime":430.33,"body":"optimising their experience at"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":430.33,"endTime":433.84,"body":"school, to get the things they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":430.33,"endTime":433.84,"body":"want to engage in the things"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":433.84,"endTime":437.44,"body":"they enjoy without worrying"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":433.84,"endTime":437.44,"body":"about the people around them."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":437.53,"endTime":441.07,"body":"Now, it is a small group of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":437.53,"endTime":441.07,"body":"people, but they do exist. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":441.07,"endTime":444.4,"body":"what the optimizers might do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":441.07,"endTime":444.4,"body":"when they hear that anything"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":444.4,"endTime":447.7,"body":"goes is that they start to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":444.4,"endTime":447.7,"body":"behave in very challenging ways"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":447.88,"endTime":450.79,"body":"that undermines the system, or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":447.88,"endTime":450.79,"body":"the children will look at them"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":450.79,"endTime":453.04,"body":"and think, Well, this system"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":450.79,"endTime":453.04,"body":"isn't working, and other adults"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":453.04,"endTime":455.14,"body":"will look and think, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":453.04,"endTime":455.14,"body":"this restorative practices and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":455.14,"endTime":458.05,"body":"working because it's been"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":455.14,"endTime":458.05,"body":"presented in the wrong way. It's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":458.05,"endTime":460.78,"body":"been presented as now there are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":458.05,"endTime":460.78,"body":"no consequences for your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":460.78,"endTime":465.67,"body":"behaviour, rather than there are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":460.78,"endTime":465.67,"body":"meaningful natural consequences"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":465.67,"endTime":467.98,"body":"for your behaviour, which is a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":465.67,"endTime":467.98,"body":"completely different thing."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":468.17,"endTime":470.12,"body":"It's quite a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":468.17,"endTime":470.12,"body":"shift in thinking for some"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":470.12,"endTime":473.66,"body":"people, isn't it? And don't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":470.12,"endTime":473.66,"body":"forget that people in education,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":473.84,"endTime":478.19,"body":"adults in education are likely"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":473.84,"endTime":478.19,"body":"to be intrinsically motivated."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":478.22,"endTime":482.75,"body":"So people who are intrinsically"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":478.22,"endTime":482.75,"body":"motivated, do the right thing"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":482.75,"endTime":487.34,"body":"because they can. And because it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":482.75,"endTime":487.34,"body":"feels good to make good choices,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":487.37,"endTime":490.85,"body":"because doing the right thing is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":487.37,"endTime":490.85,"body":"the right thing to do. And doing"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":490.85,"endTime":494.96,"body":"the right thing is the reward in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":490.85,"endTime":494.96,"body":"itself. extrinsically motivated"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":494.96,"endTime":498.14,"body":"people aren't motivated to do"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":494.96,"endTime":498.14,"body":"the right thing, because it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":498.14,"endTime":501.89,"body":"makes them feel good. That's not"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":498.14,"endTime":501.89,"body":"enough for them. extrinsically"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":501.89,"endTime":505.94,"body":"motivated people need an"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":501.89,"endTime":505.94,"body":"external reward to drive them to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":505.94,"endTime":511.19,"body":"do things. So things like money,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":505.94,"endTime":511.19,"body":"recognition, tokens praise, but"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":511.19,"endTime":515.39,"body":"it's a big mistake to assume"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":511.19,"endTime":515.39,"body":"that everyone is intrinsically"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":515.39,"endTime":518.6,"body":"motivated. like us because the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":515.39,"endTime":518.6,"body":"reality is they're just not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":518.63,"endTime":519.86,"body":"Yeah, there's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":518.63,"endTime":519.86,"body":"even a term for this in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":519.86,"endTime":523.49,"body":"psychology called the false"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":519.86,"endTime":523.49,"body":"consensus bias. It's a cognitive"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":523.49,"endTime":528.29,"body":"bias in error in thinking where"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":523.49,"endTime":528.29,"body":"we assume we overestimate how"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":528.29,"endTime":532.28,"body":"much other people are like us,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":528.29,"endTime":532.28,"body":"we automatically assume that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":532.28,"endTime":535.49,"body":"other people share the same"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":532.28,"endTime":535.49,"body":"worldview, the same politics,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":535.49,"endTime":538.37,"body":"the same ideas, the same"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":535.49,"endTime":538.37,"body":"opinions, feelings, experiences,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":538.37,"endTime":542.06,"body":"and characteristics, when that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":538.37,"endTime":542.06,"body":"not true. People aren't one"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":542.06,"endTime":544.16,"body":"homogenous group. We're all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":542.06,"endTime":544.16,"body":"different with different"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":544.16,"endTime":546.74,"body":"motivations and ideas and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":544.16,"endTime":546.74,"body":"worldviews, and when we assume"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":546.74,"endTime":550.52,"body":"everyone is like us, then we can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":546.74,"endTime":550.52,"body":"get into real problems. Because"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":550.52,"endTime":552.77,"body":"the truth is, not everyone is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":550.52,"endTime":552.77,"body":"like us."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":552.84,"endTime":555.21,"body":"And this is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":552.84,"endTime":555.21,"body":"made worse when people gather"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":555.21,"endTime":559.95,"body":"themselves into echo chambers."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":555.21,"endTime":559.95,"body":"So for example, when people join"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":559.95,"endTime":563.76,"body":"groups on social media, they're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":559.95,"endTime":563.76,"body":"often joining a group of like"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":563.76,"endTime":565.89,"body":"minded people. So they're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":563.76,"endTime":565.89,"body":"hearing views and opinions"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":565.89,"endTime":571.5,"body":"solely from people who think"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":565.89,"endTime":571.5,"body":"just like them. And this"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":571.5,"endTime":576.51,"body":"reinforces this idea that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":571.5,"endTime":576.51,"body":"everyone thinks like this. So if"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":576.57,"endTime":580.5,"body":"everyone thinks like this, I"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":576.57,"endTime":580.5,"body":"must be right. A lot of people"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":580.5,"endTime":583.74,"body":"go around thinking that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":580.5,"endTime":583.74,"body":"everybody else thinks like them,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":583.92,"endTime":587.31,"body":"and you'll hear it in their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":583.92,"endTime":587.31,"body":"language. They say things like"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":587.43,"endTime":592.8,"body":"\"everyone thinks\", or \"everyone"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":587.43,"endTime":592.8,"body":"says\", or \"everyone does it\"."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":592.83,"endTime":595.05,"body":"So we have to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":592.83,"endTime":595.05,"body":"careful of this false consensus"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":595.05,"endTime":598.32,"body":"bias, just because we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":595.05,"endTime":598.32,"body":"probably intrinsically"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":598.32,"endTime":601.56,"body":"motivated. We deeply care about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":598.32,"endTime":601.56,"body":"the impact of our actions on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":601.56,"endTime":604.35,"body":"other people, it doesn't mean"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":601.56,"endTime":604.35,"body":"everyone else is, or everyone"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":604.35,"endTime":608.04,"body":"else is to the same extent that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":604.35,"endTime":608.04,"body":"we are, then that goes for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":608.04,"endTime":612.24,"body":"adults and kids. Very"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":608.04,"endTime":612.24,"body":"extrinsically motivated adults"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":612.48,"endTime":616.14,"body":"are likely to raise very"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":612.48,"endTime":616.14,"body":"extrinsically motivated kids,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":616.29,"endTime":619.62,"body":"kids who work for rewards and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":616.29,"endTime":619.62,"body":"adapt their behaviour to avoid"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":619.62,"endTime":620.37,"body":"punishments."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":620.43,"endTime":622.47,"body":"And that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":620.43,"endTime":622.47,"body":"external pressure is what's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":622.47,"endTime":625.62,"body":"making them adapt their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":622.47,"endTime":625.62,"body":"behaviour, this small percentage"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":625.62,"endTime":629.34,"body":"of the population don't care as"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":625.62,"endTime":629.34,"body":"much about the impact of their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":629.34,"endTime":632.97,"body":"actions on others. They're just"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":629.34,"endTime":632.97,"body":"out there to optimise their own"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":632.97,"endTime":633.96,"body":"experience."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":633.99,"endTime":636.24,"body":"So what you see"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":633.99,"endTime":636.24,"body":"is these kids here, consequences"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":636.24,"endTime":639.24,"body":"are gone, I think, great, I can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":636.24,"endTime":639.24,"body":"do anything I want. And all I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":639.24,"endTime":642.84,"body":"have to do is say sorry, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":639.24,"endTime":642.84,"body":"they can very quickly bring the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":642.84,"endTime":644.67,"body":"whole system crumbling down."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":644.69,"endTime":646.79,"body":"So we need to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":644.69,"endTime":646.79,"body":"be super careful with our"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":646.79,"endTime":650.99,"body":"messaging. restorative practice"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":646.79,"endTime":650.99,"body":"isn't about removing"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":650.99,"endTime":655.22,"body":"consequences, per se. It's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":650.99,"endTime":655.22,"body":"actually about replacing one"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":655.22,"endTime":658.94,"body":"kind of consequence, the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":655.22,"endTime":658.94,"body":"artificial, meaningless kind"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":659.18,"endTime":663.11,"body":"with another natural"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":659.18,"endTime":663.11,"body":"consequences. And we have to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":663.11,"endTime":667.07,"body":"make sure our staff as well as"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":663.11,"endTime":667.07,"body":"our children, and parents hear"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":667.07,"endTime":670.73,"body":"that message loud and clear."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":667.07,"endTime":670.73,"body":"We're not pulling the rug out"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":670.73,"endTime":673.49,"body":"from under the staff's feet and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":670.73,"endTime":673.49,"body":"leaving them with nothing to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":673.49,"endTime":675.05,"body":"hang their behaviour management"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":673.49,"endTime":675.05,"body":"on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":675.11,"endTime":677.39,"body":"Another mistake"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":675.11,"endTime":677.39,"body":"that impacts the effectiveness"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":677.39,"endTime":680.57,"body":"of restorative conversations is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":677.39,"endTime":680.57,"body":"that behaviour promises weren't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":680.57,"endTime":683.06,"body":"followed up. So at the end of a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":680.57,"endTime":683.06,"body":"restorative conversation, where"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":683.06,"endTime":686.24,"body":"we've acknowledged the harm that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":683.06,"endTime":686.24,"body":"was done, and we've talked about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":686.24,"endTime":689.99,"body":"how we can repair that harm,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":686.24,"endTime":689.99,"body":"then the perpetrator makes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":689.99,"endTime":692.93,"body":"explicit commitments about what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":689.99,"endTime":692.93,"body":"they're going to do to repair"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":692.93,"endTime":696.5,"body":"the harm. So repair the display,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":692.93,"endTime":696.5,"body":"make a positive post about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":696.5,"endTime":699.32,"body":"someone else on social media, or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":696.5,"endTime":699.32,"body":"so on. Now, what actually"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":699.32,"endTime":703.61,"body":"changes behaviour, a big factor"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":699.32,"endTime":703.61,"body":"in that is accountability,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":703.82,"endTime":707.51,"body":"someone checking up and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":703.82,"endTime":707.51,"body":"following up to see if we make"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":707.51,"endTime":710.45,"body":"good on our promises. So let's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":707.51,"endTime":710.45,"body":"take an adult example, your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":710.45,"endTime":712.82,"body":"leadership team decided to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":710.45,"endTime":712.82,"body":"change your school's marking"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":712.82,"endTime":715.67,"body":"policy, they give you lots of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":712.82,"endTime":715.67,"body":"training on it, they tell you,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":715.67,"endTime":719.21,"body":"they expect you to use it. But"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":715.67,"endTime":719.21,"body":"you know, for a fact that no one"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":719.27,"endTime":723.17,"body":"ever ever checks, like ever, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":719.27,"endTime":723.17,"body":"you realise that it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":723.17,"endTime":726.53,"body":"really matter if you use it or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":723.17,"endTime":726.53,"body":"not. And you know, change is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":726.53,"endTime":729.77,"body":"difficult, and it's hard, and it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":726.53,"endTime":729.77,"body":"requires effort. So what do you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":729.77,"endTime":732.77,"body":"do? Well, there's a strong"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":729.77,"endTime":732.77,"body":"chance in that situation that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":732.77,"endTime":735.14,"body":"you'll just keep marking the old"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":732.77,"endTime":735.14,"body":"way. Because you know, that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":735.14,"endTime":736.76,"body":"what you do and who's checking"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":735.14,"endTime":736.76,"body":"anyway."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":736.89,"endTime":738.75,"body":"And it's just"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":736.89,"endTime":738.75,"body":"the same with a restorative"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":738.75,"endTime":743.19,"body":"conversation. If a child commits"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":738.75,"endTime":743.19,"body":"to do something to repair some"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":743.19,"endTime":746.49,"body":"harm that's been done. Let's go"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":743.19,"endTime":746.49,"body":"back to the example that they've"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":746.49,"endTime":749.94,"body":"said something unkind on social"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":746.49,"endTime":749.94,"body":"media. And they've agreed to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":749.94,"endTime":753.42,"body":"make three positive posts about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":749.94,"endTime":753.42,"body":"the other person to repair that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":753.42,"endTime":757.62,"body":"harm, then if they know that no"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":753.42,"endTime":757.62,"body":"one's actually going to check"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":757.62,"endTime":760.86,"body":"that they've done that there's a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":757.62,"endTime":760.86,"body":"pretty good chance that they're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":760.86,"endTime":763.83,"body":"not going to follow through,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":760.86,"endTime":763.83,"body":"they're not going to repair the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":763.83,"endTime":767.01,"body":"harm, because they know that no"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":763.83,"endTime":767.01,"body":"one's going to check up."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":767.04,"endTime":769.89,"body":"The problem,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":767.04,"endTime":769.89,"body":"then is that the adult believes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":769.92,"endTime":773.13,"body":"some things happen, but it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":769.92,"endTime":773.13,"body":"actually hasn't. And the impact"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":773.13,"endTime":776.82,"body":"on the future is the kids become"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":773.13,"endTime":776.82,"body":"even less likely to make good on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":776.82,"endTime":778.92,"body":"their promises, because they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":776.82,"endTime":778.92,"body":"don't feel like they're being"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":778.92,"endTime":782.7,"body":"held accountable. So we teach"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":778.92,"endTime":782.7,"body":"them to make empty commitments"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":782.76,"endTime":786.03,"body":"that don't lead to behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":782.76,"endTime":786.03,"body":"change. Remember, the act of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":786.03,"endTime":789.6,"body":"making the harm good is what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":786.03,"endTime":789.6,"body":"helps our kids develop empathy."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":789.81,"endTime":792.45,"body":"The act of seeing the harm that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":789.81,"endTime":792.45,"body":"was done to other people, helps"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":792.45,"endTime":796.35,"body":"our kids develop the empathy and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":792.45,"endTime":796.35,"body":"that empathy becomes the reason"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":796.35,"endTime":799.62,"body":"for doing the right thing. No"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":796.35,"endTime":799.62,"body":"commitment, no accountability,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":799.68,"endTime":800.34,"body":"no change."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":800.37,"endTime":802.14,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":800.37,"endTime":802.14,"body":"accountability changes"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":802.14,"endTime":805.98,"body":"behaviour, the adult involved"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":802.14,"endTime":805.98,"body":"needs to tell the pupil that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":805.98,"endTime":809.07,"body":"they will be checking up to make"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":805.98,"endTime":809.07,"body":"sure that the commitments are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":809.07,"endTime":812.55,"body":"followed upon, and that they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":809.07,"endTime":812.55,"body":"actually do it. If the child"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":812.58,"endTime":815.97,"body":"agrees to write a letter of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":812.58,"endTime":815.97,"body":"apology, for example, the adult"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":815.97,"endTime":819.36,"body":"needs to check that the letter"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":815.97,"endTime":819.36,"body":"was written and delivered."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":819.45,"endTime":822.0,"body":"Another form of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":819.45,"endTime":822.0,"body":"accountability here is about the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":822.0,"endTime":824.67,"body":"word sorry. So if a child says"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":822.0,"endTime":824.67,"body":"they're going to repair the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":824.67,"endTime":826.92,"body":"harm, that's been done by saying"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":824.67,"endTime":826.92,"body":"sorry, and you know, if that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":826.92,"endTime":829.23,"body":"appropriate, if it's a small"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":826.92,"endTime":829.23,"body":"thing, if the child then"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":829.23,"endTime":833.55,"body":"delivers that, sorry, in a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":829.23,"endTime":833.55,"body":"sarcastic or unbelievable way,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":833.55,"endTime":837.48,"body":"or a big smirk on their face,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":833.55,"endTime":837.48,"body":"that isn't really repairing the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":837.48,"endTime":840.66,"body":"harm that's been done. It's so"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":837.48,"endTime":840.66,"body":"important for the child who's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":840.66,"endTime":844.32,"body":"been wronged to feel that the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":840.66,"endTime":844.32,"body":"other person making the apology"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":844.32,"endTime":846.66,"body":"is honest, and that they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":844.32,"endTime":846.66,"body":"believable, and that they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":846.66,"endTime":850.02,"body":"showing empathy. They need to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":846.66,"endTime":850.02,"body":"feel the process is effective,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":850.05,"endTime":852.45,"body":"and they need to feel the other"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":850.05,"endTime":852.45,"body":"child really wants to repair the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":852.45,"endTime":856.2,"body":"relationship or, and here's the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":852.45,"endTime":856.2,"body":"kicker, they all start to lose"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":856.2,"endTime":857.4,"body":"trust in the process as well."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":857.45,"endTime":860.09,"body":"So another"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":857.45,"endTime":860.09,"body":"reason why restorative practice"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":860.09,"endTime":862.79,"body":"doesn't get off the ground in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":860.09,"endTime":862.79,"body":"some schools is because the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":862.79,"endTime":866.69,"body":"adults don't receive adequate"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":862.79,"endTime":866.69,"body":"training. And they actually feel"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":866.69,"endTime":869.75,"body":"out of their depth. If you're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":866.69,"endTime":869.75,"body":"moving to restorative practice"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":869.78,"endTime":873.89,"body":"and away from that old system of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":869.78,"endTime":873.89,"body":"rewards and consequences. That"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":873.89,"endTime":878.21,"body":"can be a pretty big mind shift"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":873.89,"endTime":878.21,"body":"for some staff. So most teachers"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":878.21,"endTime":880.97,"body":"and TAs are really comfortable"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":878.21,"endTime":880.97,"body":"with traditional ways of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":880.97,"endTime":884.39,"body":"managing behaviour. We all like"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":880.97,"endTime":884.39,"body":"to do things the way that we've"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":884.42,"endTime":888.17,"body":"always done them. And if it's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":884.42,"endTime":888.17,"body":"straightforward, if it's simple,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":888.2,"endTime":892.76,"body":"if we believe that it works for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":888.2,"endTime":892.76,"body":"most children most of the time,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":892.88,"endTime":896.18,"body":"we might be a bit resistant to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":892.88,"endTime":896.18,"body":"change it so someone does the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":896.18,"endTime":899.3,"body":"right thing. You don't try to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":896.18,"endTime":899.3,"body":"reward someone does the wrong"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":899.3,"endTime":902.75,"body":"thing. You issue a consequence."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":899.3,"endTime":902.75,"body":"That's the old style system."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":902.78,"endTime":905.57,"body":"These are the systems we"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":902.78,"endTime":905.57,"body":"experienced when we went to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":905.57,"endTime":909.29,"body":"school, we know exactly how to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":905.57,"endTime":909.29,"body":"use them. And we know exactly"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":909.29,"endTime":912.35,"body":"what they mean. So they're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":909.29,"endTime":912.35,"body":"simple, they're straightforward."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":912.35,"endTime":913.79,"body":"They're easy to implement."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":913.85,"endTime":915.89,"body":"And for some"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":913.85,"endTime":915.89,"body":"teachers, this reward and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":915.89,"endTime":918.65,"body":"consequence, this carrot and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":915.89,"endTime":918.65,"body":"stick approach, it's all they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":918.65,"endTime":921.02,"body":"mean when they talk about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":918.65,"endTime":921.02,"body":"behaviour management because of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":921.02,"endTime":923.09,"body":"their background because of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":921.02,"endTime":923.09,"body":"their training because of their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":923.0,"endTime":926.84,"body":"So put yourself"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":923.0,"endTime":926.84,"body":"in the teachers position, they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":923.09,"endTime":923.69,"body":"understanding."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":926.84,"endTime":931.22,"body":"haven't had a lot of training"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":926.84,"endTime":931.22,"body":"about SEMH needs and behaviour,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":931.52,"endTime":934.79,"body":"and the underlying conditions"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":931.52,"endTime":934.79,"body":"that affect children's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":934.79,"endTime":938.51,"body":"behaviour, such as trauma and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":934.79,"endTime":938.51,"body":"attachment, all of the good"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":938.51,"endTime":942.11,"body":"stuff that we've covered in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":938.51,"endTime":942.11,"body":"other podcast episodes, if they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":942.11,"endTime":946.52,"body":"don't have that depth of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":942.11,"endTime":946.52,"body":"experience and knowledge. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":946.52,"endTime":950.42,"body":"then somebody comes along and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":946.52,"endTime":950.42,"body":"says, here's an hour's training"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":950.42,"endTime":953.96,"body":"on restorative conversations."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":950.42,"endTime":953.96,"body":"Next week, that's how you're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":953.96,"endTime":957.56,"body":"going to manage all behaviour in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":953.96,"endTime":957.56,"body":"school. Well imagine how that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":957.56,"endTime":960.83,"body":"would feel it feels like the rug"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":957.56,"endTime":960.83,"body":"has been whipped out from under"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":960.83,"endTime":964.76,"body":"your feet. I don't think staff"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":960.83,"endTime":964.76,"body":"are going to feel confident in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":964.76,"endTime":968.36,"body":"completely revolutionising their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":964.76,"endTime":968.36,"body":"approach. And they're more"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":968.36,"endTime":972.29,"body":"likely to feel under confident"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":968.36,"endTime":972.29,"body":"and disempowered and quite"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":972.29,"endTime":974.42,"body":"resistant to making those"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":972.29,"endTime":974.42,"body":"changes."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":974.48,"endTime":976.43,"body":"Yeah, if that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":974.48,"endTime":976.43,"body":"member of staff then attempts to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":976.43,"endTime":979.16,"body":"use a restorative conversation"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":976.43,"endTime":979.16,"body":"in the early days, and it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":979.16,"endTime":981.44,"body":"doesn't go well or it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":979.16,"endTime":981.44,"body":"get the result they were"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":981.44,"endTime":983.72,"body":"expecting or the kids were"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":981.44,"endTime":983.72,"body":"saying things that they weren't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":983.72,"endTime":986.03,"body":"expecting, and they didn't know"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":983.72,"endTime":986.03,"body":"how to react or change the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":986.03,"endTime":988.91,"body":"questions or follow the process,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":986.03,"endTime":988.91,"body":"then what is that person's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":988.91,"endTime":991.88,"body":"reaction likely to be? They're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":988.91,"endTime":991.88,"body":"going to put up their hands and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":991.88,"endTime":994.13,"body":"say this doesn't work,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":991.88,"endTime":994.13,"body":"management doesn't know what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":994.13,"endTime":996.35,"body":"they're talking about. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":994.13,"endTime":996.35,"body":"they're going to lose any"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":996.35,"endTime":997.61,"body":"commitment to the process."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":997.68,"endTime":999.99,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":997.68,"endTime":999.99,"body":"Sometimes they might use it,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":999.99,"endTime":1003.8,"body":"sometimes they won't, they don't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":999.99,"endTime":1003.8,"body":"really wholeheartedly believe"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1003.8,"endTime":1006.86,"body":"it. So it's not convincing when"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1003.8,"endTime":1006.86,"body":"they use the process and the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1006.86,"endTime":1010.04,"body":"techniques, maybe they just give"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1006.86,"endTime":1010.04,"body":"up, maybe they just resort"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1010.04,"endTime":1013.37,"body":"straight back to what they've"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1010.04,"endTime":1013.37,"body":"always done. Perhaps the result"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1013.37,"endTime":1017.09,"body":"of every conversation is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1013.37,"endTime":1017.09,"body":"actually the adult shortcutting"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1017.09,"endTime":1021.02,"body":"to making the child say sorry,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1017.09,"endTime":1021.02,"body":"but that isn't the purpose of a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1021.02,"endTime":1024.8,"body":"restorative conversation. So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1021.02,"endTime":1024.8,"body":"what happens there is you'll get"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1024.8,"endTime":1029.18,"body":"some staff who are naturally"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1024.8,"endTime":1029.18,"body":"skilled and able to adapt to a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1029.18,"endTime":1032.96,"body":"new system, you'll get others"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1029.18,"endTime":1032.96,"body":"who need more input, more"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1032.96,"endTime":1036.83,"body":"support, more time, more"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1032.96,"endTime":1036.83,"body":"training, so you quickly get"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1036.86,"endTime":1041.6,"body":"inconsistency between classes."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1036.86,"endTime":1041.6,"body":"So it can feel like as a whole"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1041.6,"endTime":1045.86,"body":"school, this new process of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1041.6,"endTime":1045.86,"body":"restorative practice just isn't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1045.86,"endTime":1046.46,"body":"working?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1046.51,"endTime":1048.55,"body":"Yeah, ask any"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1046.51,"endTime":1048.55,"body":"senior leader and they will tell"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1048.55,"endTime":1051.46,"body":"you inconsistency kills"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1048.55,"endTime":1051.46,"body":"behaviour policies. And the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1051.46,"endTime":1054.52,"body":"thing is, right, all behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1051.46,"endTime":1054.52,"body":"management is a skill. It's not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1054.52,"endTime":1056.98,"body":"something you learn in an hour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1054.52,"endTime":1056.98,"body":"and a PowerPoint, I always"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1056.98,"endTime":1059.62,"body":"compare it to the idea of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1056.98,"endTime":1059.62,"body":"teaching a child to ride a bike."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1059.65,"endTime":1062.8,"body":"So what you're doing is you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1059.65,"endTime":1062.8,"body":"teaching them a skill. So what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1062.8,"endTime":1065.08,"body":"you wouldn't do if you were"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1062.8,"endTime":1065.08,"body":"teaching your child to ride a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1065.08,"endTime":1068.95,"body":"bike is grab a PowerPoint, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1065.08,"endTime":1068.95,"body":"tell them all about angular"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1068.95,"endTime":1072.22,"body":"velocity, and what balance looks"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1068.95,"endTime":1072.22,"body":"like in terms of physics and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1072.22,"endTime":1075.04,"body":"levers. And at the end of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1072.22,"endTime":1075.04,"body":"hour, turn the PowerPoint off"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1075.04,"endTime":1077.86,"body":"and say, bang, there you go. You"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1075.04,"endTime":1077.86,"body":"know how to ride a bike, what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1077.86,"endTime":1081.37,"body":"you've done is given them lots"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1077.86,"endTime":1081.37,"body":"of information about riding a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1081.37,"endTime":1084.7,"body":"bike, but actually riding a bike"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1081.37,"endTime":1084.7,"body":"is a skill you learn over time"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1084.7,"endTime":1087.94,"body":"with encouragement and guidance."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1084.7,"endTime":1087.94,"body":"And it's the same with behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1087.94,"endTime":1091.27,"body":"management, it's a skill, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1087.94,"endTime":1091.27,"body":"can read about it. But until"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1091.27,"endTime":1094.39,"body":"you've put it into practice with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1091.27,"endTime":1094.39,"body":"advice and guidance and support,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1094.42,"endTime":1098.05,"body":"it's not something that you can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1094.42,"endTime":1098.05,"body":"just pick up very, very quickly."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1098.05,"endTime":1100.33,"body":"It requires coaching and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1098.05,"endTime":1100.33,"body":"mentoring."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1100.36,"endTime":1102.55,"body":"And I think"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1100.36,"endTime":1102.55,"body":"behaviour management is ever"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1102.55,"endTime":1106.93,"body":"evolving. I mean, I'm nearly 25"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1102.55,"endTime":1106.93,"body":"years in education now. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1106.93,"endTime":1109.75,"body":"learning new things all the time"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1106.93,"endTime":1109.75,"body":"about how to manage behaviour."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1109.78,"endTime":1114.43,"body":"So the solution is sustained"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1109.78,"endTime":1114.43,"body":"support over time. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1114.46,"endTime":1117.52,"body":"especially in those early"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1114.46,"endTime":1117.52,"body":"mornings when the school is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1117.52,"endTime":1121.45,"body":"transitioning to a new system,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1117.52,"endTime":1121.45,"body":"we need to give plenty of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1121.48,"endTime":1124.66,"body":"opportunities to talk and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1121.48,"endTime":1124.66,"body":"compare notes with other"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1124.66,"endTime":1128.77,"body":"teachers. We need mentoring and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1124.66,"endTime":1128.77,"body":"support from leaders, it's about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1128.77,"endTime":1132.25,"body":"creating a culture shift. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1128.77,"endTime":1132.25,"body":"that isn't going to happen"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1132.25,"endTime":1132.97,"body":"overnight."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1133.05,"endTime":1135.12,"body":"Another thing to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1133.05,"endTime":1135.12,"body":"bear in mind is as leaders, we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1135.12,"endTime":1137.73,"body":"can suffer from the curse of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1135.12,"endTime":1137.73,"body":"knowledge, which is assuming"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1137.73,"endTime":1141.09,"body":"people know exactly what we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1137.73,"endTime":1141.09,"body":"know, to the depth of our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1141.09,"endTime":1143.67,"body":"experience and the depth of our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1141.09,"endTime":1143.67,"body":"knowledge, we don't make"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1143.7,"endTime":1147.51,"body":"allowances or perhaps we don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1143.7,"endTime":1147.51,"body":"make enough allowance for the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1147.51,"endTime":1151.23,"body":"difference in the levels of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1147.51,"endTime":1151.23,"body":"knowledge. We take ideas, which"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1151.23,"endTime":1155.22,"body":"we understand on a scale of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1151.23,"endTime":1155.22,"body":"complexity, it's a 9 out of 10."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1155.34,"endTime":1157.83,"body":"And then we kind of dumb it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1155.34,"endTime":1157.83,"body":"down, we explain it in a simpler"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1157.83,"endTime":1161.07,"body":"way. And we sort of bring it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1157.83,"endTime":1161.07,"body":"down to a 5 out of 10. But"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1161.07,"endTime":1164.76,"body":"actually, sometimes we have to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1161.07,"endTime":1164.76,"body":"go right down to a one or a two,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1164.94,"endTime":1167.97,"body":"to communicate effectively"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1164.94,"endTime":1167.97,"body":"because the person that we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1167.97,"endTime":1170.49,"body":"speaking to or the staff that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1167.97,"endTime":1170.49,"body":"we're speaking to, or segments"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1170.49,"endTime":1174.21,"body":"of the staff were speaking to,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1170.49,"endTime":1174.21,"body":"may have very little knowledge"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1174.21,"endTime":1177.69,"body":"about this and taking it right"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1174.21,"endTime":1177.69,"body":"down to that level is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1177.69,"endTime":1180.78,"body":"essential for ensuring they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1177.69,"endTime":1180.78,"body":"understand the process and that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1180.78,"endTime":1184.14,"body":"we carry them with us. This"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1180.78,"endTime":1184.14,"body":"isn't being patronising. It's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1184.14,"endTime":1185.19,"body":"differentiation."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1185.25,"endTime":1187.89,"body":"And our final"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1185.25,"endTime":1187.89,"body":"reason why sometimes schools"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1187.89,"endTime":1190.98,"body":"find it hard to launch"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1187.89,"endTime":1190.98,"body":"restorative justice in their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1190.98,"endTime":1194.91,"body":"school is what about the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1190.98,"endTime":1194.91,"body":"adaptations for pupils with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1194.91,"endTime":1199.53,"body":"special educational needs? So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1194.91,"endTime":1199.53,"body":"schools always need to consider"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1199.53,"endTime":1203.25,"body":"how I'm going to adapt the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1199.53,"endTime":1203.25,"body":"process for kids with additional"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1203.25,"endTime":1206.67,"body":"needs. And here are a few"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1203.25,"endTime":1206.67,"body":"pointers to bear in mind."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1206.72,"endTime":1209.48,"body":"Does the child"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1206.72,"endTime":1209.48,"body":"experience toxic shame due to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1209.48,"endTime":1212.45,"body":"their early childhood"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1209.48,"endTime":1212.45,"body":"experiences or trauma. Now toxic"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1212.45,"endTime":1216.14,"body":"shame is a condition where you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1212.45,"endTime":1216.14,"body":"feel that on the inside, you are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1216.14,"endTime":1221.45,"body":"genuinely a bad person who isn't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1216.14,"endTime":1221.45,"body":"worthy of love or praise. If you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1221.48,"endTime":1224.57,"body":"have this condition, then a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1221.48,"endTime":1224.57,"body":"restorative conversation is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1224.57,"endTime":1228.11,"body":"going to ask you to take"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1224.57,"endTime":1228.11,"body":"responsibility for negative"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1228.14,"endTime":1231.77,"body":"actions you've taken against"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1228.14,"endTime":1231.77,"body":"another person. Now these"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1231.77,"endTime":1235.31,"body":"negative actions are going to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1231.77,"endTime":1235.31,"body":"yet more evidence from your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1235.31,"endTime":1239.24,"body":"point of view that you are bad"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1235.31,"endTime":1239.24,"body":"through and through, so you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1239.24,"endTime":1242.9,"body":"not likely to want to engage in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1239.24,"endTime":1242.9,"body":"that because even admitting that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1242.9,"endTime":1245.96,"body":"you've done something that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1242.9,"endTime":1245.96,"body":"impacted badly on another person"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1245.99,"endTime":1249.14,"body":"is making you sort of confront"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1245.99,"endTime":1249.14,"body":"this underlying belief that I am"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1249.14,"endTime":1251.63,"body":"genuinely bad. So we need to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1249.14,"endTime":1251.63,"body":"think about what do we do for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1251.63,"endTime":1254.0,"body":"children that experience toxic"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1251.63,"endTime":1254.0,"body":"shame issues."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1254.24,"endTime":1256.85,"body":"And the next"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1254.24,"endTime":1256.85,"body":"point to consider is can the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1256.85,"endTime":1260.45,"body":"child take responsibility for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1256.85,"endTime":1260.45,"body":"their choices? Can they actually"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1260.45,"endTime":1265.67,"body":"do that during the incident? If"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1260.45,"endTime":1265.67,"body":"not, maybe we need additional"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1265.67,"endTime":1270.5,"body":"time for discussion. So we might"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1265.67,"endTime":1270.5,"body":"need to use visual resources"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1270.5,"endTime":1273.59,"body":"such as Comic Strip"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1270.5,"endTime":1273.59,"body":"Conversations, for example, or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1273.59,"endTime":1277.52,"body":"choice points to map out what"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1273.59,"endTime":1277.52,"body":"happened and where children made"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1277.52,"endTime":1282.14,"body":"specific choices. We've got to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1277.52,"endTime":1282.14,"body":"go from where children are at."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1282.32,"endTime":1286.19,"body":"And if they're simply unable to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1282.32,"endTime":1286.19,"body":"take responsibility. We've got"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1286.19,"endTime":1290.03,"body":"to start from there and help to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1286.19,"endTime":1290.03,"body":"teach them how to fully"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1290.03,"endTime":1293.75,"body":"understand what happened in a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1290.03,"endTime":1293.75,"body":"situation, not just from their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1293.75,"endTime":1297.8,"body":"own viewpoint, but from other"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1293.75,"endTime":1297.8,"body":"children's viewpoints as well."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1298.07,"endTime":1300.71,"body":"And lots of children,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1298.07,"endTime":1300.71,"body":"particularly very young children"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1300.71,"endTime":1303.14,"body":"that is developmentally"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1300.71,"endTime":1303.14,"body":"appropriate that they are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1303.14,"endTime":1306.68,"body":"entirely egocentric. They can"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1303.14,"endTime":1306.68,"body":"only see things from their own"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1306.68,"endTime":1310.13,"body":"perspective. So as children go"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1306.68,"endTime":1310.13,"body":"through the school, we've got to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1310.13,"endTime":1313.28,"body":"work with them not at their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1310.13,"endTime":1313.28,"body":"chronological age, but at their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1313.28,"endTime":1317.39,"body":"developmental age. And some"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1313.28,"endTime":1317.39,"body":"children, even older children"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1317.42,"endTime":1321.05,"body":"still find it incredibly"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1317.42,"endTime":1321.05,"body":"difficult to view a situation"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1321.05,"endTime":1323.93,"body":"from another person's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1321.05,"endTime":1323.93,"body":"perspective. So what can we do"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1323.93,"endTime":1327.08,"body":"to help them with that? What"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1323.93,"endTime":1327.08,"body":"resources what visuals have we"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1327.08,"endTime":1329.21,"body":"got to facilitate that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1327.08,"endTime":1329.21,"body":"discussion?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1329.0,"endTime":1330.92,"body":"Building on that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1329.0,"endTime":1330.92,"body":"we need to think about does the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1330.92,"endTime":1333.86,"body":"child have additional needs in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1330.92,"endTime":1333.86,"body":"terms of how we develop their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1333.86,"endTime":1336.59,"body":"empathy restorative practice is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1333.86,"endTime":1336.59,"body":"all about modifying our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1336.59,"endTime":1339.65,"body":"behaviour because we do care"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1336.59,"endTime":1339.65,"body":"about the feelings and thoughts"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1339.65,"endTime":1342.89,"body":"of others. If the people has"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1339.65,"endTime":1342.89,"body":"difficulty around empathy, as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1342.89,"endTime":1345.68,"body":"Emma was describing, then"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1342.89,"endTime":1345.68,"body":"restorative conversations have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1345.68,"endTime":1349.73,"body":"been proven to help them develop"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1345.68,"endTime":1349.73,"body":"empathy over time in the future."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1349.79,"endTime":1352.7,"body":"But also, it might be that they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1349.79,"endTime":1352.7,"body":"need some additional planned"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1352.7,"endTime":1356.69,"body":"structured work about developing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1352.7,"endTime":1356.69,"body":"their empathy for other people."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1356.93,"endTime":1359.63,"body":"And again, some people's can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1356.93,"endTime":1359.63,"body":"find this incredibly difficult."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1359.63,"endTime":1362.48,"body":"And it will need to be a planned"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1359.63,"endTime":1362.48,"body":"ongoing process, which is where"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1362.48,"endTime":1365.27,"body":"we set up as an individual"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1362.48,"endTime":1365.27,"body":"target on their IEP."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1365.3,"endTime":1368.87,"body":"All this I know"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1365.3,"endTime":1368.87,"body":"requires additional time. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1368.87,"endTime":1372.53,"body":"where do we find that time? Who"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1368.87,"endTime":1372.53,"body":"is going to talk through those"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1372.53,"endTime":1376.31,"body":"conversations in additional"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1372.53,"endTime":1376.31,"body":"detail? Where are they going to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1376.31,"endTime":1379.28,"body":"do it? Does it need to be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1376.31,"endTime":1379.28,"body":"someone who has a positive"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1379.28,"endTime":1382.19,"body":"relationship with the students?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1379.28,"endTime":1382.19,"body":"Well, I would say that yes, it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1382.19,"endTime":1386.63,"body":"does. The point is, over time,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1382.19,"endTime":1386.63,"body":"you're going to be developing"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1386.63,"endTime":1390.71,"body":"the children's skills, imagine"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1386.63,"endTime":1390.71,"body":"how wonderful it would be to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1390.71,"endTime":1395.93,"body":"reach a point where all children"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1390.71,"endTime":1395.93,"body":"can accept and understand the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1395.93,"endTime":1399.56,"body":"implications of their actions."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1395.93,"endTime":1399.56,"body":"And when they make a mistake,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1399.56,"endTime":1403.1,"body":"they can come up with ideas and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1399.56,"endTime":1403.1,"body":"solutions of how to put it right"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1403.1,"endTime":1407.45,"body":"and repair that harm. In the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1403.1,"endTime":1407.45,"body":"long run, that is going to save"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1407.48,"endTime":1412.55,"body":"a lot of time and heartache from"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1407.48,"endTime":1412.55,"body":"pupils and staff. So it's really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1412.55,"endTime":1414.05,"body":"worth investing that time."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1414.05,"endTime":1416.9,"body":"Now, lastly, in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1414.05,"endTime":1416.9,"body":"terms of special needs, many"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1416.9,"endTime":1419.51,"body":"children with communication"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1416.9,"endTime":1419.51,"body":"difficulties may also find it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1419.51,"endTime":1423.35,"body":"hard to express themselves or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1419.51,"endTime":1423.35,"body":"understand the flow of a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1423.35,"endTime":1426.32,"body":"restorative conversation. So we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1423.35,"endTime":1426.32,"body":"need to think about how we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1426.32,"endTime":1430.16,"body":"explicitly teach them about the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1426.32,"endTime":1430.16,"body":"language we're going to use,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1430.46,"endTime":1434.15,"body":"what the conversation might look"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1430.46,"endTime":1434.15,"body":"like, maybe help them visualise"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1434.15,"endTime":1438.47,"body":"its flow using visual aids and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1434.15,"endTime":1438.47,"body":"appropriate vocabulary to use"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1438.47,"endTime":1442.28,"body":"during the conversation to help"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1438.47,"endTime":1442.28,"body":"repair the harm that's been"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1442.28,"endTime":1444.65,"body":"done. So we're rehearsing the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1442.28,"endTime":1444.65,"body":"kinds of things that they might"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1444.65,"endTime":1447.41,"body":"need to say, to engage"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1444.65,"endTime":1447.41,"body":"productively in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1447.41,"endTime":1450.32,"body":"conversation. Because remember,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1447.41,"endTime":1450.32,"body":"we need the other person, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1450.32,"endTime":1453.71,"body":"person who's been harmed by"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1450.32,"endTime":1453.71,"body":"earlier events to have trust in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1453.71,"endTime":1456.32,"body":"the process and believe that the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1453.71,"endTime":1456.32,"body":"other person is being genuine"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1456.32,"endTime":1458.96,"body":"and wants to repair the damage"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1456.32,"endTime":1458.96,"body":"that's been done. So using the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1458.96,"endTime":1461.75,"body":"right language is an important"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1458.96,"endTime":1461.75,"body":"part of that. So how we pre"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1461.75,"endTime":1464.63,"body":"tutor and help them practice"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1461.75,"endTime":1464.63,"body":"those kinds of words is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1464.63,"endTime":1468.02,"body":"important. Again, this is work"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1464.63,"endTime":1468.02,"body":"that people will need to do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1468.05,"endTime":1471.56,"body":"before the conversation starts"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1468.05,"endTime":1471.56,"body":"not during the conversation."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1471.62,"endTime":1474.53,"body":"So essentially,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1471.62,"endTime":1474.53,"body":"it's all about identifying any"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1474.53,"endTime":1478.16,"body":"barriers to engaging in a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1474.53,"endTime":1478.16,"body":"restorative conversation, and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1478.16,"endTime":1481.97,"body":"then putting in place support to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1478.16,"endTime":1481.97,"body":"help the child to overcome those"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1481.97,"endTime":1485.39,"body":"barriers so that they can access"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1481.97,"endTime":1485.39,"body":"this practice just like"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1485.39,"endTime":1486.35,"body":"everybody else."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1486.41,"endTime":1488.3,"body":"So we've talked"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1486.41,"endTime":1488.3,"body":"about a lot there. As a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1488.3,"endTime":1490.16,"body":"reminder, here are the key"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1488.3,"endTime":1490.16,"body":"points."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1490.19,"endTime":1492.56,"body":"Don't talk"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1490.19,"endTime":1492.56,"body":"about restorative practice, as"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1492.56,"endTime":1496.85,"body":"if you are about to remove all"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1492.56,"endTime":1496.85,"body":"of the consequences in school."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1496.88,"endTime":1500.99,"body":"It's more complicated and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1496.88,"endTime":1500.99,"body":"nuanced than that. So be very"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1500.99,"endTime":1503.99,"body":"careful about how you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1500.99,"endTime":1503.99,"body":"communicate this change."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1504.05,"endTime":1506.09,"body":"Make sure any"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1504.05,"endTime":1506.09,"body":"commitments the child makes to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1506.09,"endTime":1510.11,"body":"repair the harm are followed up."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1506.09,"endTime":1510.11,"body":"The pupil is held accountable"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1510.11,"endTime":1511.22,"body":"for those commitments."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1511.28,"endTime":1513.95,"body":"Give your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1511.28,"endTime":1513.95,"body":"teachers adequate training and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1513.95,"endTime":1517.46,"body":"commit to supporting them in the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1513.95,"endTime":1517.46,"body":"mid to long term."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1517.52,"endTime":1519.83,"body":"And think about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1517.52,"endTime":1519.83,"body":"how you're going to adapt the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1519.83,"endTime":1522.44,"body":"process to support your pupils"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1519.83,"endTime":1522.44,"body":"with additional needs."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1522.5,"endTime":1524.93,"body":"Would you like"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1522.5,"endTime":1524.93,"body":"support in holding a restorative"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1524.93,"endTime":1528.86,"body":"conversation? If you would, then"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1524.93,"endTime":1528.86,"body":"our Inner Circle membership"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1528.86,"endTime":1532.94,"body":"programme has got you covered."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1528.86,"endTime":1532.94,"body":"We've got a training module that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1532.94,"endTime":1537.44,"body":"will walk you through exactly"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1532.94,"endTime":1537.44,"body":"what to say and do to hold a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1537.44,"endTime":1540.83,"body":"successful restorative"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1537.44,"endTime":1540.83,"body":"conversation. And you can get a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1540.83,"endTime":1545.03,"body":"trial of our Inner Circle"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1540.83,"endTime":1545.03,"body":"programme right now for just one"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1545.03,"endTime":1549.83,"body":"pound, which also includes"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1545.03,"endTime":1549.83,"body":"access to over 30 other video"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1549.83,"endTime":1553.13,"body":"training resources as well. Head"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1549.83,"endTime":1553.13,"body":"on over to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1553.16,"endTime":1557.45,"body":"www.beaconschoolsupport.co.uk"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1553.16,"endTime":1557.45,"body":"and you'll find a link to the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1557.48,"endTime":1560.15,"body":"Inner Circle near the top of our"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1557.48,"endTime":1560.15,"body":"homepage."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1560.0,"endTime":1562.49,"body":"And remember to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1560.0,"endTime":1562.49,"body":"subscribe to the show and make"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1562.49,"endTime":1566.3,"body":"sure you hear each episode as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1562.49,"endTime":1566.3,"body":"it's released. It only takes 10"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1566.3,"endTime":1569.81,"body":"seconds. So open your podcast"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1566.3,"endTime":1569.81,"body":"app now. Click the subscribe"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1569.81,"endTime":1572.36,"body":"button or the Follow button as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1569.81,"endTime":1572.36,"body":"it's called in Apple podcasts."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1572.66,"endTime":1576.2,"body":"And your podcast app will"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1572.66,"endTime":1576.2,"body":"automatically download every"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1576.2,"endTime":1579.41,"body":"single episode for you so you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1576.2,"endTime":1579.41,"body":"never miss a thing and to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1579.41,"endTime":1583.16,"body":"celebrate Well, why not form a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1579.41,"endTime":1583.16,"body":"pigeon choir? Wrangle together"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1583.19,"endTime":1586.79,"body":"10 to 12 pigeons and then using"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1583.19,"endTime":1586.79,"body":"pieces of bread and seed as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1586.79,"endTime":1589.88,"body":"positive reinforcement."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1586.79,"endTime":1589.88,"body":"Gradually teach them to coo in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1589.88,"endTime":1593.75,"body":"concert to create a magnificent"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1589.88,"endTime":1593.75,"body":"bird choir. No, that's wrong."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1593.78,"endTime":1597.14,"body":"Actually train the pigeons"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1593.78,"endTime":1597.14,"body":"before you subscribe. Then when"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1597.14,"endTime":1600.5,"body":"you hit that subscribe button,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1597.14,"endTime":1600.5,"body":"get the pigeons to coo you the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1600.5,"endTime":1604.25,"body":"most fantastical heartwarming"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1600.5,"endTime":1604.25,"body":"fanfare anyone could imagine and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1604.25,"endTime":1607.34,"body":"then disband the choir, leaving"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1604.25,"endTime":1607.34,"body":"everyone with memories of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1607.34,"endTime":1608.06,"body":"good times."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1608.12,"endTime":1610.49,"body":"And remember if"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1608.12,"endTime":1610.49,"body":"you've got a colleague or friend"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1610.49,"endTime":1613.43,"body":"who's unsure about restorative"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1610.49,"endTime":1613.43,"body":"practice and you think that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1613.43,"endTime":1616.4,"body":"they'd find this podcast"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1613.43,"endTime":1616.4,"body":"helpful, then don't keep this"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1616.43,"endTime":1620.69,"body":"episode all to yourself. Use the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1616.43,"endTime":1620.69,"body":"Share button in your podcast app"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1620.81,"endTime":1624.11,"body":"to let them know about this"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1620.81,"endTime":1624.11,"body":"episode so that the classes and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1624.11,"endTime":1627.68,"body":"students they work with can"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1624.11,"endTime":1627.68,"body":"benefit as well. That's it for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1627.68,"endTime":1631.73,"body":"today. Have a brilliant week. I"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1627.68,"endTime":1631.73,"body":"will see you in the next episode"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1631.79,"endTime":1634.82,"body":"of school behaviour. Bye for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1631.79,"endTime":1634.82,"body":"now."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1635.06,"endTime":1635.54,"body":"Bye"}]}