{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":0.42,"endTime":3.0,"body":"They might feel"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":0.42,"endTime":3.0,"body":"frustrated with the work or with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3.0,"endTime":6.36,"body":"their peers and lack the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3.0,"endTime":6.36,"body":"emotional regulation skills to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":6.36,"endTime":10.5,"body":"soothe themselves. And when"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":6.36,"endTime":10.5,"body":"they're no longer able to manage"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":10.5,"endTime":13.35,"body":"that emotional stress by"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":10.5,"endTime":13.35,"body":"themselves, they suddenly"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":13.35,"endTime":18.06,"body":"explode. Or at least that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":13.35,"endTime":18.06,"body":"explosion appears to be sudden."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":18.27,"endTime":21.75,"body":"But actually, it's been"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":18.27,"endTime":21.75,"body":"simmering away all day until the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":21.75,"endTime":25.26,"body":"pressure inside can't be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":21.75,"endTime":25.26,"body":"contained any longer. So what I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":25.26,"endTime":30.48,"body":"am saying is, unless we get to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":25.26,"endTime":30.48,"body":"the upstream cause of what's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":30.48,"endTime":33.99,"body":"causing those behaviours, those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":30.48,"endTime":33.99,"body":"behaviours simply are not going"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":33.99,"endTime":37.53,"body":"to go away. Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":33.99,"endTime":37.53,"body":"school behaviour secrets"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":37.53,"endTime":40.95,"body":"podcast. I'm your host, Simon"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":37.53,"endTime":40.95,"body":"Currigan. My co host is Emma"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":40.95,"endTime":44.58,"body":"Shackleton and we're obsessed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":40.95,"endTime":44.58,"body":"with helping teachers, school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":44.58,"endTime":47.49,"body":"leaders and parents and of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":44.58,"endTime":47.49,"body":"course students when classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":47.49,"endTime":50.4,"body":"behaviour gets in the way of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":47.49,"endTime":50.4,"body":"success. We're going to share"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":50.4,"endTime":53.61,"body":"the tried and tested secrets to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":50.4,"endTime":53.61,"body":"classroom management behavioural"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":53.61,"endTime":56.85,"body":"special needs, whole school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":53.61,"endTime":56.85,"body":"strategy and more, all with the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":56.85,"endTime":59.97,"body":"aim of helping your students"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":56.85,"endTime":59.97,"body":"reach their true potential."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":60.06,"endTime":62.85,"body":"Plus, we'll be letting you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":60.06,"endTime":62.85,"body":"eavesdrop on an app"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":62.85,"endTime":65.94,"body":"conversations with thought"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":62.85,"endTime":65.94,"body":"leaders from around the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":66.06,"endTime":69.78,"body":"So you'll get to hear the latest"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":66.06,"endTime":69.78,"body":"evidence based strategies before"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":69.81,"endTime":74.04,"body":"anyone else. This is the school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":69.81,"endTime":74.04,"body":"behaviour secrets podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":74.57,"endTime":77.3,"body":"Hi there. My name is Simon"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":74.57,"endTime":77.3,"body":"Currigan and welcome to this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":77.3,"endTime":80.93,"body":"week's episode of school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":77.3,"endTime":80.93,"body":"behaviour secrets. While other"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":80.93,"endTime":84.77,"body":"educational podcasts are like a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":80.93,"endTime":84.77,"body":"gentle continental kiss on each"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":84.77,"endTime":88.13,"body":"cheek welcoming you to a polite"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":84.77,"endTime":88.13,"body":"half hour of academic"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":88.13,"endTime":91.64,"body":"conversation. We're more like a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":88.13,"endTime":91.64,"body":"Glasgow kiss, bludgeoning and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":91.7,"endTime":95.36,"body":"SEMH issue than showing it the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":91.7,"endTime":95.36,"body":"door. It's just  me today. My"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":95.36,"endTime":98.09,"body":"usual co host Emma Shackleton"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":95.36,"endTime":98.09,"body":"can't be here. So I'll be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":98.09,"endTime":101.21,"body":"handling this episode solo. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":98.09,"endTime":101.21,"body":"I wanted to take this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":101.21,"endTime":106.07,"body":"opportunity to try a slightly"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":101.21,"endTime":106.07,"body":"new style of episode where we go"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":106.07,"endTime":109.46,"body":"deep into an insight or a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":106.07,"endTime":109.46,"body":"mindset shift or a strategy to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":109.46,"endTime":113.12,"body":"use in the classroom, something"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":109.46,"endTime":113.12,"body":"about behaviour or SEMH that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":113.12,"endTime":116.78,"body":"might help you make progress"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":113.12,"endTime":116.78,"body":"with your students. And this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":116.78,"endTime":120.29,"body":"week, we're going to look at why"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":116.78,"endTime":120.29,"body":"kids throwing chairs in class or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":120.29,"endTime":124.49,"body":"walking out or swearing isn't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":120.29,"endTime":124.49,"body":"the problem that you think it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":124.49,"endTime":128.39,"body":"is. But before I get to that, I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":124.49,"endTime":128.39,"body":"want to start by asking you a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":128.39,"endTime":132.05,"body":"favour if you're finding school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":128.39,"endTime":132.05,"body":"behaviour secrets useful. Don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":132.05,"endTime":135.41,"body":"keep it to yourself. Open up"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":132.05,"endTime":135.41,"body":"your podcast app, click the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":135.41,"endTime":138.62,"body":"share button and send this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":135.41,"endTime":138.62,"body":"episode to three of your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":138.62,"endTime":141.23,"body":"colleagues or even a senior"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":138.62,"endTime":141.23,"body":"leader you work with you would"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":141.23,"endTime":144.95,"body":"find the content useful. It"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":141.23,"endTime":144.95,"body":"helps these ideas and the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":144.95,"endTime":148.64,"body":"podcast grow. And then we can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":144.95,"endTime":148.64,"body":"help more teachers and more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":148.64,"endTime":150.44,"body":"students in more schools."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":150.66,"endTime":154.47,"body":"So I want to start this episode"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":150.66,"endTime":154.47,"body":"with a quick story. I want you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":154.47,"endTime":157.65,"body":"to imagine there's a medic and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":154.47,"endTime":157.65,"body":"it's her day off and she looks"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":157.65,"endTime":160.98,"body":"outside the window and she sees"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":157.65,"endTime":160.98,"body":"it's a sunny day. So she decides"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":160.98,"endTime":165.06,"body":"to go and enjoy the weather and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":160.98,"endTime":165.06,"body":"relax at the park near her house"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":165.06,"endTime":167.82,"body":"where there's a peaceful river."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":165.06,"endTime":167.82,"body":"So she sets off and she finds"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":167.82,"endTime":171.54,"body":"herself a sunny spot on the bank"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":167.82,"endTime":171.54,"body":"settles back to listen to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":171.54,"endTime":176.37,"body":"soothing sounds of the water and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":171.54,"endTime":176.37,"body":"sighs sounds idyllic, right?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":176.67,"endTime":180.54,"body":"Well, no, because this is a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":176.67,"endTime":180.54,"body":"horror story. While she's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":180.54,"endTime":185.85,"body":"relaxing. She notices something"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":180.54,"endTime":185.85,"body":"floating down the river and as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":185.85,"endTime":190.47,"body":"it gets closer, she realises"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":185.85,"endTime":190.47,"body":"with terror that it's a small"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":190.47,"endTime":195.75,"body":"boy floating facedown and not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":190.47,"endTime":195.75,"body":"moving in the water. So as the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":195.75,"endTime":199.98,"body":"child approaches she leaps out"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":195.75,"endTime":199.98,"body":"into the river, hauls the boy to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":199.98,"endTime":203.52,"body":"the riverbank and then she flips"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":199.98,"endTime":203.52,"body":"him quickly onto his back and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":203.52,"endTime":208.23,"body":"uses her medical expertise to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":203.52,"endTime":208.23,"body":"perform CPR and resuscitate the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":208.23,"endTime":211.98,"body":"child. And then 10 minutes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":208.23,"endTime":211.98,"body":"later, to her great relief, his"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":211.98,"endTime":215.52,"body":"eyes suddenly flicker open, he"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":211.98,"endTime":215.52,"body":"spurts water from his mouth and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":215.52,"endTime":219.03,"body":"he begins to breathe again. The"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":215.52,"endTime":219.03,"body":"boy thanks her and goes off to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":219.03,"endTime":223.74,"body":"find his parents. Exhausted"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":219.03,"endTime":223.74,"body":"because CPR is a physically"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":223.74,"endTime":227.91,"body":"demanding activity. The medic"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":223.74,"endTime":227.91,"body":"sits back on the bank and begins"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":227.91,"endTime":232.38,"body":"to dry off in the warm afternoon"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":227.91,"endTime":232.38,"body":"sun. And then to her horror"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":232.41,"endTime":235.89,"body":"again. She sees another body"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":232.41,"endTime":235.89,"body":"floating down the river this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":235.89,"endTime":239.67,"body":"time a young girl so she wades"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":235.89,"endTime":239.67,"body":"bravely out into the freezing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":239.67,"endTime":243.03,"body":"water and grabs the girl pulls"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":239.67,"endTime":243.03,"body":"her back to the bank where she"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":243.03,"endTime":246.99,"body":"again begins resuscitating the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":243.03,"endTime":246.99,"body":"child until the girl opens her"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":246.99,"endTime":251.01,"body":"eyes coughs up the water that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":246.99,"endTime":251.01,"body":"been clogging up her lungs and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":251.01,"endTime":255.72,"body":"starts to breathe again. Doubly"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":251.01,"endTime":255.72,"body":"exhausted now, the medic rolls"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":255.72,"endTime":259.59,"body":"onto her back and thinks about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":255.72,"endTime":259.59,"body":"how unlucky it is to see two"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":259.59,"endTime":264.6,"body":"children floating past drowning"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":259.59,"endTime":264.6,"body":"in the same river and how lucky"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":264.6,"endTime":267.99,"body":"they were for her to be on the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":264.6,"endTime":267.99,"body":"bank and to have the expertise"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":267.99,"endTime":272.37,"body":"to save them. And then to her"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":267.99,"endTime":272.37,"body":"complete surprise, she sees a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":272.37,"endTime":275.31,"body":"third body floating down the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":272.37,"endTime":275.31,"body":"river towards her. So she"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":275.31,"endTime":279.18,"body":"repeats the same process again,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":275.31,"endTime":279.18,"body":"swimming out into the river"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":279.21,"endTime":282.36,"body":"grabbing the child by the belt."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":279.21,"endTime":282.36,"body":"This time it's a boy, pulling"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":282.36,"endTime":285.87,"body":"him to the warm grass on the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":282.36,"endTime":285.87,"body":"shore and checking him for vital"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":285.87,"endTime":290.4,"body":"signs. Physically exhausted. Now"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":285.87,"endTime":290.4,"body":"she begins another 10 minutes of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":290.4,"endTime":295.74,"body":"gruelling CPR, after which the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":290.4,"endTime":295.74,"body":"boy groans his eyes open and he"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":295.74,"endTime":299.94,"body":"lives to see another day. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":295.74,"endTime":299.94,"body":"again, our medic rolls onto her"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":299.94,"endTime":304.17,"body":"back exhausted, wet and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":299.94,"endTime":304.17,"body":"bedraggled. And then a woman in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":304.17,"endTime":307.11,"body":"the park has been watching all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":304.17,"endTime":307.11,"body":"this happen, walks across and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":307.11,"endTime":310.56,"body":"says to the medic, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":307.11,"endTime":310.56,"body":"want to congratulate you on all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":310.56,"endTime":313.17,"body":"the hard work you've done"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":310.56,"endTime":313.17,"body":"preventing those kids from"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":313.17,"endTime":317.37,"body":"drowning. You must be so tired"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":313.17,"endTime":317.37,"body":"now. The medic sits up. And she"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":317.37,"endTime":319.8,"body":"thanks the passerby. And she"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":317.37,"endTime":319.8,"body":"says, you know, it was lucky I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":319.8,"endTime":322.74,"body":"was here really, I guess it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":319.8,"endTime":322.74,"body":"one of those days where you feel"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":322.74,"endTime":325.86,"body":"like you made a difference. The"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":322.74,"endTime":325.86,"body":"woman nods and says, But you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":325.86,"endTime":329.1,"body":"know, there's something you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":325.86,"endTime":329.1,"body":"really need to know, if you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":329.1,"endTime":331.74,"body":"really want to make a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":329.1,"endTime":331.74,"body":"difference. You shouldn't be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":331.74,"endTime":335.37,"body":"downstream, wasting time"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":331.74,"endTime":335.37,"body":"resuscitating these kids who are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":335.37,"endTime":338.34,"body":"drowning in the river, your time"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":335.37,"endTime":338.34,"body":"will be better spent walking"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":338.34,"endTime":341.4,"body":"five minutes upstream to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":338.34,"endTime":341.4,"body":"bridge, and doing something"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":341.4,"endTime":344.37,"body":"about the man who keeps throwing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":341.4,"endTime":344.37,"body":"them into the water."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":344.36,"endTime":348.08,"body":"And sometimes in class, we have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":344.36,"endTime":348.08,"body":"the same experience as that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":348.08,"endTime":351.44,"body":"medic, we see our kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":348.08,"endTime":351.44,"body":"presenting challenging behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":351.44,"endTime":354.65,"body":"in class, we see the outbursts"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":351.44,"endTime":354.65,"body":"and the refusals, or the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":354.65,"endTime":358.55,"body":"meltdowns and we spend a lot of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":354.65,"endTime":358.55,"body":"time de escalating them or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":358.7,"endTime":361.94,"body":"managing them, or trying to keep"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":358.7,"endTime":361.94,"body":"our lessons going and making"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":361.94,"endTime":366.47,"body":"sure the other kids feel safe."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":361.94,"endTime":366.47,"body":"And that is draining, exhausting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":366.56,"endTime":369.98,"body":"work. And I know because I've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":366.56,"endTime":369.98,"body":"been there. But sometimes we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":369.98,"endTime":374.0,"body":"have to ask ourselves is that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":369.98,"endTime":374.0,"body":"wasted time and effort? Are we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":374.0,"endTime":377.6,"body":"spending too much time dealing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":374.0,"endTime":377.6,"body":"with the downstream problems,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":377.75,"endTime":380.81,"body":"the big obvious behaviours we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":377.75,"endTime":380.81,"body":"see in school, the chair"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":380.81,"endTime":383.84,"body":"throwing the swearing the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":380.81,"endTime":383.84,"body":"aggression? when the real"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":383.84,"endTime":388.64,"body":"problems lie upstream, the thing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":383.84,"endTime":388.64,"body":"that's causing the chair"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":388.64,"endTime":392.45,"body":"throwing, the swearing, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":388.64,"endTime":392.45,"body":"aggression, because unless we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":392.45,"endTime":395.78,"body":"deal with that upstream problem,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":392.45,"endTime":395.78,"body":"the man on the bridge, hurling"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":395.78,"endTime":399.71,"body":"kids into the water, those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":395.78,"endTime":399.71,"body":"downstream problems are just"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":399.71,"endTime":403.37,"body":"going to keep coming. And if we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":399.71,"endTime":403.37,"body":"don't tackle that upstream"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":403.37,"endTime":406.91,"body":"problem, we're going to see the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":403.37,"endTime":406.91,"body":"same behaviours in class day"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":406.94,"endTime":411.47,"body":"after day after day. And what's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":406.94,"endTime":411.47,"body":"worse is that the longer those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":411.47,"endTime":415.85,"body":"behaviours persist, the more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":411.47,"endTime":415.85,"body":"they become entrenched and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":415.85,"endTime":419.78,"body":"difficult to change. And this is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":415.85,"endTime":419.78,"body":"why it's so important to think"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":419.78,"endTime":423.08,"body":"about what is the underlying"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":419.78,"endTime":423.08,"body":"cause about the challenging"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":423.08,"endTime":427.04,"body":"behaviours we see in school,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":423.08,"endTime":427.04,"body":"unless we identify it and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":427.04,"endTime":431.45,"body":"address it. Those behaviours"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":427.04,"endTime":431.45,"body":"just keep coming. And that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":431.45,"endTime":435.02,"body":"exhausting for the child. It's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":431.45,"endTime":435.02,"body":"exhausting for the adult, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":435.11,"endTime":439.28,"body":"everyone loses. And this is why"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":435.11,"endTime":439.28,"body":"for kids with high needs,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":439.46,"endTime":443.48,"body":"rewards and punishments, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":439.46,"endTime":443.48,"body":"things like exclusion don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":443.48,"endTime":446.45,"body":"change behaviour, because"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":443.48,"endTime":446.45,"body":"they're attempting to deal with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":446.45,"endTime":449.81,"body":"a problem downstream when we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":446.45,"endTime":449.81,"body":"exclude a child for walking out"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":449.81,"endTime":453.95,"body":"of class. When you speak to them"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":449.81,"endTime":453.95,"body":"after the fact they know they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":453.95,"endTime":457.07,"body":"shouldn't have walked out of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":453.95,"endTime":457.07,"body":"class. But they lacked the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":457.07,"endTime":461.48,"body":"capacity to cope in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":457.07,"endTime":461.48,"body":"situation they found themselves"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":461.48,"endTime":463.67,"body":"in, it's like saying to one of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":461.48,"endTime":463.67,"body":"those drowning kids, it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":463.67,"endTime":465.59,"body":"shouldn't be in the river, they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":463.67,"endTime":465.59,"body":"know they shouldn't be in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":465.59,"endTime":468.98,"body":"river. Lectures on river safety"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":465.59,"endTime":468.98,"body":"aren't going to make any"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":468.98,"endTime":472.4,"body":"difference, they need help with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":468.98,"endTime":472.4,"body":"the root cause, the man"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":472.4,"endTime":475.31,"body":"upstream, chucking them in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":472.4,"endTime":475.31,"body":"river in the first place. That's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":475.31,"endTime":479.78,"body":"why suddenly my experience if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":475.31,"endTime":479.78,"body":"consequences for behaviour don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":479.78,"endTime":484.31,"body":"work quickly, theyre unlikely to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":479.78,"endTime":484.31,"body":"work at all. Because"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":484.31,"endTime":488.18,"body":"consequences work for chosen"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":484.31,"endTime":488.18,"body":"behaviour, when the child has"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":488.18,"endTime":491.72,"body":"the capacity and skills to cope"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":488.18,"endTime":491.72,"body":"in the school environment when"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":491.72,"endTime":495.08,"body":"their behaviour is being driven"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":491.72,"endTime":495.08,"body":"by something other than"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":495.08,"endTime":499.49,"body":"deliberate choice, when it's got"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":495.08,"endTime":499.49,"body":"an emotional root consequences"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":499.49,"endTime":504.05,"body":"have very limited effectiveness."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":499.49,"endTime":504.05,"body":"So we've got to get ourselves"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":504.08,"endTime":507.98,"body":"upstream to the root cause and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":504.08,"endTime":507.98,"body":"find out what's causing those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":507.98,"endTime":512.93,"body":"behaviours. The problem is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":507.98,"endTime":512.93,"body":"identifying that cause can be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":512.93,"endTime":517.58,"body":"tricky. And here's the thing."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":512.93,"endTime":517.58,"body":"Sometimes, because we find a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":517.58,"endTime":521.96,"body":"solution to a behaviour issue,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":517.58,"endTime":521.96,"body":"it doesn't mean we've identified"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":521.96,"endTime":525.62,"body":"the cause. Now, that may sound"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":521.96,"endTime":525.62,"body":"counterintuitive. So let me"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":525.62,"endTime":528.5,"body":"explain what I mean. There was"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":525.62,"endTime":528.5,"body":"an interesting study done a few"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":528.5,"endTime":530.84,"body":"decades back in a classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":528.5,"endTime":530.84,"body":"where there were three"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":530.84,"endTime":533.9,"body":"particularly disruptive"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":530.84,"endTime":533.9,"body":"students, the teacher was at his"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":533.9,"endTime":537.2,"body":"wit's end, found it very"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":533.9,"endTime":537.2,"body":"difficult to keep learning going"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":537.2,"endTime":540.02,"body":"for the other children. And he"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":537.2,"endTime":540.02,"body":"didn't know what to do for the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":540.02,"endTime":543.8,"body":"best. So the researchers sat"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":540.02,"endTime":543.8,"body":"quietly at the back of the room,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":543.98,"endTime":547.28,"body":"and observed and they did find"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":543.98,"endTime":547.28,"body":"that the behaviour of the three"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":547.31,"endTime":550.49,"body":"identified children was"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":547.31,"endTime":550.49,"body":"particularly disruptive, then it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":550.49,"endTime":552.83,"body":"made it difficult for the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":550.49,"endTime":552.83,"body":"teacher to teach and the other"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":552.83,"endTime":556.55,"body":"children to learn. They"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":552.83,"endTime":556.55,"body":"suggested that during the work"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":556.55,"endTime":561.38,"body":"task, the teacher visited each"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":556.55,"endTime":561.38,"body":"target child in turn, and give"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":561.38,"endTime":564.5,"body":"them 30 seconds of his"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":561.38,"endTime":564.5,"body":"attention, then he would move on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":564.5,"endTime":566.96,"body":"to the second child and give"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":564.5,"endTime":566.96,"body":"them 30 seconds of his"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":566.96,"endTime":569.39,"body":"attention. And then the third"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":566.96,"endTime":569.39,"body":"child at the end of this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":569.39,"endTime":573.17,"body":"circuit, he would support the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":569.39,"endTime":573.17,"body":"other children in class but very"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":573.17,"endTime":577.28,"body":"quickly returned to those three"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":573.17,"endTime":577.28,"body":"focus kids and give them each 30"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":577.28,"endTime":580.67,"body":"seconds of his attention again,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":577.28,"endTime":580.67,"body":"and he was to repeat this over"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":580.67,"endTime":583.7,"body":"and over and over and what the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":580.67,"endTime":583.7,"body":"researchers found was that the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":583.7,"endTime":587.36,"body":"amount of challenging behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":583.7,"endTime":587.36,"body":"from those target children was"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":587.39,"endTime":592.1,"body":"almost immediately eliminated."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":587.39,"endTime":592.1,"body":"So they concluded two things,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":592.4,"endTime":596.42,"body":"that attention giving solved the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":592.4,"endTime":596.42,"body":"issue of those children's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":596.42,"endTime":600.2,"body":"disruptive behaviour in class,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":596.42,"endTime":600.2,"body":"and that the problem therefore"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":600.26,"endTime":604.19,"body":"must be that they were attention"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":600.26,"endTime":604.19,"body":"seeking. Now on the face of it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":604.19,"endTime":607.16,"body":"this kind of makes sense. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":604.19,"endTime":607.16,"body":"give attention seeking kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":607.16,"endTime":609.98,"body":"attention and the attention"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":607.16,"endTime":609.98,"body":"seeking behaviour goes away."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":610.28,"endTime":616.16,"body":"But, we need to think more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":610.28,"endTime":616.16,"body":"deeply about what the causes of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":616.16,"endTime":620.18,"body":"classroom behaviours are. Simply"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":616.16,"endTime":620.18,"body":"because the solution giving the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":620.18,"endTime":624.65,"body":"child adult attention solves the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":620.18,"endTime":624.65,"body":"problem. It doesn't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":624.65,"endTime":627.86,"body":"mean the underlying problem was"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":624.65,"endTime":627.86,"body":"that the child needed attention."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":627.92,"endTime":631.4,"body":"So here's the thing, right?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":627.92,"endTime":631.4,"body":"attention seeking is the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":631.4,"endTime":636.47,"body":"description of a behaviour, not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":631.4,"endTime":636.47,"body":"a description of a cause. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":636.47,"endTime":639.26,"body":"that's still true. If you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":636.47,"endTime":639.26,"body":"using the more modern"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":639.26,"endTime":643.52,"body":"terminology of attention needing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":639.26,"endTime":643.52,"body":"or connection seeking these"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":643.52,"endTime":647.63,"body":"words, don't tell us why we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":643.52,"endTime":647.63,"body":"seeing those behaviours in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":647.63,"endTime":648.17,"body":"class."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":648.0,"endTime":650.37,"body":"Here's another way to put it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":648.0,"endTime":650.37,"body":"Imagine you go to the doctor's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":650.37,"endTime":654.21,"body":"with a cough. And the doctor"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":650.37,"endTime":654.21,"body":"looks at you, He gives you some"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":654.21,"endTime":657.87,"body":"tests, and then prescribe you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":654.21,"endTime":657.87,"body":"some cough medicine and tells"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":657.87,"endTime":661.17,"body":"you to come back next week. On"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":657.87,"endTime":661.17,"body":"your return visit, you tell the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":661.17,"endTime":663.18,"body":"doctor your cough is cured and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":661.17,"endTime":663.18,"body":"that you're happy with the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":663.18,"endTime":668.4,"body":"result. Now, while the cough"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":663.18,"endTime":668.4,"body":"medicine was the solution, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":668.4,"endTime":671.64,"body":"doctor doesn't then think to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":668.4,"endTime":671.64,"body":"themselves that you the patient"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":671.67,"endTime":676.2,"body":"had a shortage of cough medicine"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":671.67,"endTime":676.2,"body":"in your system. The real problem"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":676.2,"endTime":679.68,"body":"was something different. The"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":676.2,"endTime":679.68,"body":"germ you picked up and the cough"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":679.68,"endTime":682.68,"body":"medicine just happened to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":679.68,"endTime":682.68,"body":"address that in the same way."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":683.01,"endTime":686.22,"body":"While giving adult attention to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":683.01,"endTime":686.22,"body":"kids may result in fewer"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":686.22,"endTime":689.94,"body":"difficult behaviours. It doesn't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":686.22,"endTime":689.94,"body":"mean they have an inbuilt"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":689.97,"endTime":693.78,"body":"attention needing deficiency."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":689.97,"endTime":693.78,"body":"The need for adult attention"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":693.9,"endTime":696.81,"body":"could be caused by all manner of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":693.9,"endTime":696.81,"body":"things it might be they feel"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":696.84,"endTime":700.98,"body":"unsafe or anxious in a busy"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":696.84,"endTime":700.98,"body":"social environment. It might be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":701.22,"endTime":704.19,"body":"they don't understand an adult"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":701.22,"endTime":704.19,"body":"can hold them in mind and fear"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":704.19,"endTime":707.55,"body":"they've been forgotten in class,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":704.19,"endTime":707.55,"body":"they might feel frustrated with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":707.55,"endTime":710.91,"body":"the work or with their peers,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":707.55,"endTime":710.91,"body":"and lack the emotional"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":710.91,"endTime":714.72,"body":"regulation skills to soothe"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":710.91,"endTime":714.72,"body":"themselves. And when they're no"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":714.72,"endTime":718.35,"body":"longer able to manage that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":714.72,"endTime":718.35,"body":"emotional stress by themselves,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":718.59,"endTime":723.78,"body":"they suddenly explode or at"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":718.59,"endTime":723.78,"body":"least that explosion appears to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":723.78,"endTime":727.44,"body":"be sudden. But actually, it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":723.78,"endTime":727.44,"body":"been simmering away all day."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":727.68,"endTime":733.02,"body":"That upstream cause is like the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":727.68,"endTime":733.02,"body":"chamber in a volcano, churning"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":733.02,"endTime":736.65,"body":"up more and more magma until the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":733.02,"endTime":736.65,"body":"pressure inside can't be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":736.65,"endTime":738.03,"body":"contained any longer."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":739.86,"endTime":744.84,"body":"I'd just like to take a pause"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":739.86,"endTime":744.84,"body":"for a moment and say that if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":744.84,"endTime":747.33,"body":"you're finding this podcast"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":744.84,"endTime":747.33,"body":"useful, then you're going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":747.39,"endTime":750.78,"body":"love what we've got waiting for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":747.39,"endTime":750.78,"body":"you in our inner circle"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":750.78,"endTime":753.96,"body":"programme. The Inner Circle is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":750.78,"endTime":753.96,"body":"your one stop shop for all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":753.99,"endTime":757.44,"body":"things behaviour. It's a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":753.99,"endTime":757.44,"body":"comprehensive platform filled"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":757.44,"endTime":761.1,"body":"with videos, resources and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":757.44,"endTime":761.1,"body":"behaviour inspiration to get you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":761.28,"endTime":763.89,"body":"unstuck with classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":761.28,"endTime":763.89,"body":"behaviour. We've got training"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":763.89,"endTime":767.85,"body":"resources on de escalation,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":763.89,"endTime":767.85,"body":"supporting kids with anxiety"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":768.06,"endTime":771.33,"body":"support strategies for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":768.06,"endTime":771.33,"body":"conditions like autism, ADHD,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":771.33,"endTime":775.29,"body":"and PDA. practical ways of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":771.33,"endTime":775.29,"body":"helping pupils deal with strong"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":775.29,"endTime":778.23,"body":"emotions, assertive behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":775.29,"endTime":778.23,"body":"management techniques for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":778.23,"endTime":780.93,"body":"managing the whole classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":778.23,"endTime":780.93,"body":"setting out to a classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":780.93,"endTime":783.81,"body":"environment for success,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":780.93,"endTime":783.81,"body":"resetting behaviour with tricky"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":783.81,"endTime":787.11,"body":"classes and more. Our online"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":783.81,"endTime":787.11,"body":"videos walk you through"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":787.11,"endTime":791.73,"body":"practical solutions step by"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":787.11,"endTime":791.73,"body":"step, just like Netflix, you can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":791.73,"endTime":794.46,"body":"turn an Inner Circle"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":791.73,"endTime":794.46,"body":"subscription on or off whenever"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":794.46,"endTime":798.39,"body":"you need to, with no minimum"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":794.46,"endTime":798.39,"body":"contract. Plus, you can now get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":798.39,"endTime":802.74,"body":"your first seven days of Inner"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":798.39,"endTime":802.74,"body":"Circle for just one pound. Get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":802.74,"endTime":805.8,"body":"the behaviour answers and you've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":802.74,"endTime":805.8,"body":"been looking forward today with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":805.89,"endTime":809.58,"body":"Inner Circle visit to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":805.89,"endTime":809.58,"body":"beaconschoolsupport.co.uk. and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":809.58,"endTime":812.25,"body":"click on the Inner Circle"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":809.58,"endTime":812.25,"body":"picture near the top of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":812.25,"endTime":814.02,"body":"homepage for more information."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":817.21,"endTime":819.94,"body":"So what am I saying? I'm not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":817.21,"endTime":819.94,"body":"saying we shouldn't be offering"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":819.94,"endTime":823.15,"body":"high levels of support to kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":819.94,"endTime":823.15,"body":"who need it. No, I am not saying"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":823.15,"endTime":828.07,"body":"that. But what I am saying is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":823.15,"endTime":828.07,"body":"unless we get to the upstream"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":828.07,"endTime":832.03,"body":"cause of what's causing those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":828.07,"endTime":832.03,"body":"behaviours, those behaviours"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":832.03,"endTime":835.15,"body":"simply are not going to go away."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":832.03,"endTime":835.15,"body":"The supporting adult will be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":835.15,"endTime":838.12,"body":"like the medic at the stream"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":835.15,"endTime":838.12,"body":"pulling kids out of the river,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":838.21,"endTime":843.28,"body":"giving them CPR, we need to walk"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":838.21,"endTime":843.28,"body":"upstream deal with the root"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":843.28,"endTime":847.3,"body":"causes where we can and then the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":843.28,"endTime":847.3,"body":"child won't find themselves"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":847.33,"endTime":851.05,"body":"thrown in the river in the first"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":847.33,"endTime":851.05,"body":"place. If the child needs adult"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":851.05,"endTime":855.13,"body":"support, a good chunk of that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":851.05,"endTime":855.13,"body":"day should be spent in a planned"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":855.13,"endTime":859.75,"body":"way supporting the child with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":855.13,"endTime":859.75,"body":"that upstream issue. Even if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":859.75,"endTime":863.29,"body":"this means prioritising those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":859.75,"endTime":863.29,"body":"social and emotional learning"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":863.29,"endTime":867.88,"body":"tasks at the cost of some"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":863.29,"endTime":867.88,"body":"academic time. Because without"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":867.88,"endTime":871.3,"body":"that investment, the child is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":867.88,"endTime":871.3,"body":"stuck. They'll never make"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":871.3,"endTime":874.12,"body":"progress emotionally, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":871.3,"endTime":874.12,"body":"they'll never become more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":874.15,"endTime":877.39,"body":"independent, which is what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":874.15,"endTime":877.39,"body":"school is supposed to be about."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":877.54,"endTime":880.48,"body":"We need to spend less time"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":877.54,"endTime":880.48,"body":"helping kids out of the river"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":880.69,"endTime":884.5,"body":"and more time preventing them"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":880.69,"endTime":884.5,"body":"being thrown in. And how do we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":884.5,"endTime":888.43,"body":"do that? So it involves"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":884.5,"endTime":888.43,"body":"accepting the chair throwing the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":888.43,"endTime":891.52,"body":"swearing and the walking out."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":888.43,"endTime":891.52,"body":"They're not the real problems,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":891.76,"endTime":895.21,"body":"even though it might feel like"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":891.76,"endTime":895.21,"body":"it especially when the chairs"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":895.21,"endTime":897.7,"body":"being thrown at you. And if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":895.21,"endTime":897.7,"body":"you've had a chair thrown at"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":897.7,"endTime":911.47,"body":"you, you have my sympathy I've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":897.7,"endTime":911.47,"body":"had chairs thrown at me and it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":911.5,"endTime":914.59,"body":"is not pleasant. But eliminating"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":911.5,"endTime":914.59,"body":"that chair throwing is going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":914.59,"endTime":917.95,"body":"involve getting the root cause"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":914.59,"endTime":917.95,"body":"of why the child couldn't cope,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":917.95,"endTime":919.99,"body":"and threw that chair in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":917.95,"endTime":919.99,"body":"first place. And that involves"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":919.99,"endTime":921.37,"body":"gathering as much information as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":919.99,"endTime":921.37,"body":"possible from the child where"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":921.37,"endTime":922.72,"body":"that's age appropriate from the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":921.37,"endTime":922.72,"body":"parents, from past teachers from"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":922.72,"endTime":924.19,"body":"their peers, from observing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":922.72,"endTime":924.19,"body":"behaviours, and looking for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":924.19,"endTime":928.36,"body":"patterns, and then tracking back"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":924.19,"endTime":928.36,"body":"to possible upstream causes for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":928.36,"endTime":931.66,"body":"those behaviours and patterns to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":928.36,"endTime":931.66,"body":"join the dots."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":931.0,"endTime":932.29,"body":"A great way of doing this is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":931.0,"endTime":932.29,"body":"just to keep asking why. Here's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":932.29,"endTime":933.79,"body":"an example. Let's imagine we've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":932.29,"endTime":933.79,"body":"got Alfie. And he walks out of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":933.79,"endTime":937.03,"body":"science when he's given a piece"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":933.79,"endTime":937.03,"body":"of work. So we could ask, Why"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":937.09,"endTime":940.18,"body":"did Alfie walk out of science"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":937.09,"endTime":940.18,"body":"today? And the answer might be,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":940.3,"endTime":946.24,"body":"because he didn't want to do the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":940.3,"endTime":946.24,"body":"work. Why didn't he want to do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":947.35,"endTime":950.17,"body":"the work? Well, because he"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":947.35,"endTime":950.17,"body":"thought it was too difficult,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":950.2,"endTime":953.41,"body":"even though it was perfectly"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":950.2,"endTime":953.41,"body":"differentiated for him. So let's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":953.41,"endTime":956.77,"body":"ask why, again, why did he think"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":953.41,"endTime":956.77,"body":"the work was too difficult?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":956.86,"endTime":960.55,"body":"Because he has low self esteem"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":956.86,"endTime":960.55,"body":"and poor resilience. Well, why"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":960.55,"endTime":963.7,"body":"does he have low self esteem and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":960.55,"endTime":963.7,"body":"poor resilience? Because his dad"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":963.7,"endTime":967.24,"body":"isn't in the house after his mom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":963.7,"endTime":967.24,"body":"or dad split up, and he keeps"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":967.24,"endTime":971.71,"body":"promising to see Alfie at the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":967.24,"endTime":971.71,"body":"weekend, but never turns up. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":971.71,"endTime":974.44,"body":"why is that important? Well, now"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":971.71,"endTime":974.44,"body":"Alfie feels like it's a bad"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":974.44,"endTime":978.4,"body":"person who maybe isn't worthy of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":974.44,"endTime":978.4,"body":"love, like he's not good enough."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":978.46,"endTime":982.33,"body":"And failing at this piece of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":978.46,"endTime":982.33,"body":"science work will be yet more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":982.33,"endTime":986.56,"body":"evidence for him, that he's a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":982.33,"endTime":986.56,"body":"bad person. And he can't cope"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":986.56,"endTime":989.77,"body":"with that he can't take that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":986.56,"endTime":989.77,"body":"risk. Okay, so now we're getting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":989.77,"endTime":993.64,"body":"somewhere, we've walked a little"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":989.77,"endTime":993.64,"body":"further upstream. If we can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":993.64,"endTime":996.79,"body":"support Alfie with these"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":993.64,"endTime":996.79,"body":"problems, over time, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":996.79,"endTime":1001.59,"body":"downstream problem, the refusal"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":996.79,"endTime":1001.59,"body":"will go away, we might never be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1001.59,"endTime":1004.53,"body":"able to walk all the way"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1001.59,"endTime":1004.53,"body":"upstream to the bridge and deal"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1004.53,"endTime":1007.62,"body":"with the real first root"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1004.53,"endTime":1007.62,"body":"problem, because it's out of our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1007.62,"endTime":1011.64,"body":"gift to do so it's out of our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1007.62,"endTime":1011.64,"body":"capacity or jurisdiction. But"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1011.64,"endTime":1015.78,"body":"the further we walk upstream,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1011.64,"endTime":1015.78,"body":"the more effective our solutions"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1015.78,"endTime":1018.84,"body":"will become. So if you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1015.78,"endTime":1018.84,"body":"dealing with the same behaviours"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1018.87,"endTime":1023.34,"body":"day after day after day, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1018.87,"endTime":1023.34,"body":"nothing seems to be changing,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1023.58,"endTime":1029.07,"body":"the answer is start walking"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1023.58,"endTime":1029.07,"body":"upstream to identify the real"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1029.07,"endTime":1032.58,"body":"cause of that challenging"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1029.07,"endTime":1032.58,"body":"behaviour. Otherwise, you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1032.58,"endTime":1035.16,"body":"going to waste your time"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1032.58,"endTime":1035.16,"body":"dragging kids out of the stream"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1035.22,"endTime":1040.05,"body":"all day, every day, and nothing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1035.22,"endTime":1040.05,"body":"will change. And that's what I'm"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1040.05,"endTime":1042.6,"body":"going to leave you with today."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1040.05,"endTime":1042.6,"body":"And by the way, don't extend my"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1042.6,"endTime":1045.33,"body":"metaphor too far. If you do see"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1042.6,"endTime":1045.33,"body":"a kid in the stream in real"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1045.33,"endTime":1048.84,"body":"life, it probably is a good idea"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1045.33,"endTime":1048.84,"body":"to drag them out. In fact, I was"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1048.84,"endTime":1051.33,"body":"going to call this week's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1048.84,"endTime":1051.33,"body":"episode, don't save drowning"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1051.33,"endTime":1053.94,"body":"kids in rivers. But I got"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1051.33,"endTime":1053.94,"body":"worried about the backlash on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1053.94,"endTime":1057.3,"body":"social media from Safety First"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1053.94,"endTime":1057.3,"body":"campaigners, and decided to go"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1057.3,"endTime":1059.01,"body":"with something slightly less"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1057.3,"endTime":1059.01,"body":"controversial."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1059.04,"endTime":1062.16,"body":"By the way, if you work with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1059.04,"endTime":1062.16,"body":"kids with challenging behaviour,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1062.31,"endTime":1065.22,"body":"and you're not sure why they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1062.31,"endTime":1065.22,"body":"acting that way, we've got a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1065.22,"endTime":1068.46,"body":"download that can help you start"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1065.22,"endTime":1068.46,"body":"joining those dots. It's called"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1068.46,"endTime":1071.73,"body":"the SEN handbook, and it will"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1068.46,"endTime":1071.73,"body":"help you link behaviours you've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1071.73,"endTime":1075.6,"body":"seen in the classroom with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1071.73,"endTime":1075.6,"body":"possible causes, like autism and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1075.63,"endTime":1079.41,"body":"ADHD. The idea here isn't for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1075.63,"endTime":1079.41,"body":"teachers to make a diagnosis."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1079.41,"endTime":1082.38,"body":"We're not qualified to do that."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1079.41,"endTime":1082.38,"body":"But if we can link behaviours we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1082.38,"endTime":1085.95,"body":"see in the classroom quickly to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1082.38,"endTime":1085.95,"body":"possible causes. It means we can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1085.95,"endTime":1089.64,"body":"get the right help from external"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1085.95,"endTime":1089.64,"body":"professionals and get the right"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1089.67,"endTime":1092.91,"body":"early intervention strategies in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1089.67,"endTime":1092.91,"body":"place. It's a completely free"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1092.91,"endTime":1096.72,"body":"download, go to our website"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1092.91,"endTime":1096.72,"body":"beaconschoolsupport.co.uk."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1096.96,"endTime":1100.26,"body":"click on Free Resources near the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1096.96,"endTime":1100.26,"body":"top and you will see it there"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1100.26,"endTime":1104.22,"body":"available to download. I'll also"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1100.26,"endTime":1104.22,"body":"put a direct link in the episode"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1104.22,"endTime":1107.46,"body":"description. And if you've liked"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1104.22,"endTime":1107.46,"body":"what you've heard today, don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1107.46,"endTime":1111.0,"body":"forget to subscribe so you don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1107.46,"endTime":1111.0,"body":"miss future episodes. All you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1111.0,"endTime":1114.21,"body":"have to do is open up your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1111.0,"endTime":1114.21,"body":"podcast app, hit the subscribe"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1114.21,"endTime":1117.75,"body":"button and your app will"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1114.21,"endTime":1117.75,"body":"automatically download each new"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1117.75,"endTime":1121.8,"body":"episode as it's released. So you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1117.75,"endTime":1121.8,"body":"never miss a thing. And to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1121.8,"endTime":1125.22,"body":"celebrate, why not stroke the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1121.8,"endTime":1125.22,"body":"back of a chicken and see if you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1125.22,"endTime":1129.09,"body":"can make an egg plop out."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1125.22,"endTime":1129.09,"body":"Rewarding for you, cleansing for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1129.09,"endTime":1132.42,"body":"the chicken. Everyone wins."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1129.09,"endTime":1132.42,"body":"That's it for today. I hope you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1132.42,"endTime":1135.42,"body":"have a great week and I look"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1132.42,"endTime":1135.42,"body":"forward to save you on the next"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1135.45,"endTime":1136.89,"body":"school behaviour secrets"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1136.92,"endTime":1137.4,"body":"Bye now."}]}