{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":87.35,"endTime":89.50999999999999,"body":"One of the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":87.35,"endTime":89.50999999999999,"body":"biggest misconceptions around"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":89.57,"endTime":93.08,"body":"EBSA is that people think"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":89.57,"endTime":93.08,"body":"because the child is finding it"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":93.08,"endTime":96.05,"body":"difficult to attend school and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":93.08,"endTime":96.05,"body":"they might be communicating that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":96.05,"endTime":98.63,"body":"distress around attending school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":96.05,"endTime":98.63,"body":"in various different ways. One"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":98.63,"endTime":102.83,"body":"way might be some very kind of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":98.63,"endTime":102.83,"body":"overt challenging behaviours is"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":102.83,"endTime":105.32,"body":"that the opposite behaviours are"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":102.83,"endTime":105.32,"body":"misinterpreted to mean that the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":105.32,"endTime":107.50999999999999,"body":"child doesn't want to attend"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":105.32,"endTime":107.50999999999999,"body":"school. But actually, if you"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":107.50999999999999,"endTime":110.03,"body":"speak to their child, they"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":107.50999999999999,"endTime":110.03,"body":"really do want to attend school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":110.03,"endTime":112.16,"body":"and they really want other"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":110.03,"endTime":112.16,"body":"people to know that they want to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":112.16,"endTime":114.91999999999999,"body":"attend school. But at that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":112.16,"endTime":114.91999999999999,"body":"moment in time, the anxiety is"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":114.91999999999999,"endTime":118.31,"body":"very overwhelming and they lack"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":114.91999999999999,"endTime":118.31,"body":"the skills and strategies to be"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":118.31,"endTime":119.78,"body":"engaged with school at that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":118.31,"endTime":119.78,"body":"moment."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":119.91999999999999,"endTime":122.53,"body":"Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":119.91999999999999,"endTime":122.53,"body":"school behaviour secrets"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":122.53,"endTime":125.94999999999999,"body":"podcast. I'm your host, Simon"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":122.53,"endTime":125.94999999999999,"body":"Currigan. My co host is Emma"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":125.94999999999999,"endTime":129.57999999999998,"body":"Shackleton and we're obsessed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":125.94999999999999,"endTime":129.57999999999998,"body":"with helping teachers, school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":129.57999999999998,"endTime":132.49,"body":"leaders, parents, and of course"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":129.57999999999998,"endTime":132.49,"body":"students. When classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":132.49,"endTime":135.39999999999998,"body":"behaviour gets in the way of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":132.49,"endTime":135.39999999999998,"body":"success. We're going to share"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":135.39999999999998,"endTime":138.04,"body":"the tried and tested secrets to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":135.39999999999998,"endTime":138.04,"body":"classroom management,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":138.04,"endTime":141.57999999999998,"body":"behavioural Special Needs whole"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":138.04,"endTime":141.57999999999998,"body":"school strategy and more all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":141.57999999999998,"endTime":144.37,"body":"with the aim of helping your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":141.57999999999998,"endTime":144.37,"body":"students reach their true"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":144.37,"endTime":147.82,"body":"potential. Plus, we'll be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":144.37,"endTime":147.82,"body":"letting you eavesdrop on our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":147.82,"endTime":150.94,"body":"conversations with thought"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":147.82,"endTime":150.94,"body":"leaders from around the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":151.06,"endTime":154.78,"body":"So you'll get to hear the latest"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":151.06,"endTime":154.78,"body":"evidence based strategies before"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":154.81,"endTime":159.04,"body":"anyone else. This is the school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":154.81,"endTime":159.04,"body":"behaviour secrets podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":159.28,"endTime":162.82,"body":"Hi there and welcome to another"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":159.28,"endTime":162.82,"body":"episode of school of behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":162.82,"endTime":165.7,"body":"secrets. My name is Simon"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":162.82,"endTime":165.7,"body":"Currigan and Gustavo Flaubert,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":165.7,"endTime":169.3,"body":"In his seminal classic Madame"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":165.7,"endTime":169.3,"body":"Bovary once wrote \"language is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":169.3,"endTime":172.72,"body":"like a cracked kettle on which"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":169.3,"endTime":172.72,"body":"we beat out tunes for bears to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":172.72,"endTime":176.35,"body":"dance to\" Yeah, we're like that,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":172.72,"endTime":176.35,"body":"but for educational podcasts."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":176.38,"endTime":179.56,"body":"I'm joined today by my co host,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":176.38,"endTime":179.56,"body":"Emma Shackleton. Hi, Emma."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":179.58999999999997,"endTime":180.51999999999998,"body":"Hi, Simon."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":180.57999999999998,"endTime":183.16,"body":"Emma, I'd like"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":180.57999999999998,"endTime":183.16,"body":"to start the show by asking you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":183.16,"endTime":186.73,"body":"a quick question. Are there any"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":183.16,"endTime":186.73,"body":"jobs or activities that you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":186.73,"endTime":190.78,"body":"procrastinate over that you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":186.73,"endTime":190.78,"body":"consistently put off or avoid?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":190.91,"endTime":193.37,"body":"Oh, yes, lots"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":190.91,"endTime":193.37,"body":"actually. But the one that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":193.37,"endTime":197.45,"body":"springs to mind straightaway is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":193.37,"endTime":197.45,"body":"I absolutely hate taking the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":197.45,"endTime":201.8,"body":"rubbish out. So I always leave"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":197.45,"endTime":201.8,"body":"it and leave it and leave it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":201.82999999999998,"endTime":205.85,"body":"until it's a real pain and all"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":201.82999999999998,"endTime":205.85,"body":"the rubbish is spilling over,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":205.91,"endTime":209.24,"body":"when actually what I should have"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":205.91,"endTime":209.24,"body":"done is just done it straight"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":209.24,"endTime":212.06,"body":"away. And then it wouldn't be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":209.24,"endTime":212.06,"body":"half as difficult by the time I"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":212.06,"endTime":214.45999999999998,"body":"get around to doing it. Is that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":212.06,"endTime":214.45999999999998,"body":"the sort of thing that you mean?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":214.51999999999998,"endTime":216.10999999999999,"body":"Absolutely. We"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":214.51999999999998,"endTime":216.10999999999999,"body":"have the same thing in our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":216.10999999999999,"endTime":218.96,"body":"house, we leave it until the bag"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":216.10999999999999,"endTime":218.96,"body":"is splitting and the juice is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":218.96,"endTime":222.07999999999998,"body":"kind of pouring out across the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":218.96,"endTime":222.07999999999998,"body":"kitchen floor. When if we'd done"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":222.07999999999998,"endTime":223.85,"body":"it two days ago, it would have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":222.07999999999998,"endTime":223.85,"body":"been an easy job,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":223.35,"endTime":227.88,"body":"Hmm, bin juice!"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":223.35,"endTime":227.88,"body":"Anyway, why do you ask this"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":227.88,"endTime":228.48,"body":"question?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":228.51,"endTime":230.67,"body":"It's because"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":228.51,"endTime":230.67,"body":"today our guest on the podcast"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":230.67,"endTime":234.66,"body":"is Jerricah Holder who is an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":230.67,"endTime":234.66,"body":"expert in EBSA, or emotionally"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":234.66,"endTime":238.62,"body":"based school avoidance and how"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":234.66,"endTime":238.62,"body":"our thinking on what used to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":238.62,"endTime":241.76999999999998,"body":"called school refusal is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":238.62,"endTime":241.76999999999998,"body":"changing. So as whereas in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":241.76999999999998,"endTime":244.59,"body":"past, the word refusal"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":241.76999999999998,"endTime":244.59,"body":"channelled us towards thinking"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":244.59,"endTime":249.35999999999999,"body":"about a child being willful or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":244.59,"endTime":249.35999999999999,"body":"making choices. The latest"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":249.35999999999999,"endTime":252.69,"body":"thinking in school avoidance is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":249.35999999999999,"endTime":252.69,"body":"actually focused on pupil"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":252.69,"endTime":256.32,"body":"anxiety. And it's the anxiety"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":252.69,"endTime":256.32,"body":"and worry that we need to deal"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":256.32,"endTime":260.64,"body":"with the avoidance is a symptom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":256.32,"endTime":260.64,"body":"of that anxiety. And Jerricah"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":260.64,"endTime":263.4,"body":"shares her knowledge about EBSA"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":260.64,"endTime":263.4,"body":"in more detail and gives us"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":263.4,"endTime":266.78999999999996,"body":"strategies for supporting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":263.4,"endTime":266.78999999999996,"body":"children who are presenting EBSA"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":266.90999999999997,"endTime":267.6,"body":"in school."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":267.72,"endTime":271.11,"body":"Oh, brilliant."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":267.72,"endTime":271.11,"body":"And just before we press play on"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":271.11,"endTime":274.79999999999995,"body":"that interview, I've got a quick"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":271.11,"endTime":274.79999999999995,"body":"favour to ask if you've got"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":274.79999999999995,"endTime":277.2,"body":"friends or colleagues who you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":274.79999999999995,"endTime":277.2,"body":"think would find this"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":277.2,"endTime":281.13,"body":"information useful, or are even"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":277.2,"endTime":281.13,"body":"part of a Facebook group or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":281.13,"endTime":284.97,"body":"Twitter community where this is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":281.13,"endTime":284.97,"body":"being discussed. Don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":284.97,"endTime":288.6,"body":"share this episode. You can do"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":284.97,"endTime":288.6,"body":"it directly from inside your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":288.6,"endTime":292.59000000000003,"body":"podcast app, just open it up and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":288.6,"endTime":292.59000000000003,"body":"you'll see a Share button where"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":292.59000000000003,"endTime":296.19,"body":"you can share this episode"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":292.59000000000003,"endTime":296.19,"body":"directly. And now here's Simon's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":296.19,"endTime":297.48,"body":"interview with Jerricah."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":298.38,"endTime":301.35,"body":"I'm very excited"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":298.38,"endTime":301.35,"body":"to welcome our guest Jerricah"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":301.35,"endTime":304.77,"body":"Holder to the show. Jerricah is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":301.35,"endTime":304.77,"body":"an experienced educational"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":304.77,"endTime":308.37,"body":"psychologist who has a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":304.77,"endTime":308.37,"body":"specialist interest in children"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":308.37,"endTime":311.03999999999996,"body":"who experienced difficulty in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":308.37,"endTime":311.03999999999996,"body":"attending school due to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":311.03999999999996,"endTime":315.15,"body":"emotional factors and who may be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":311.03999999999996,"endTime":315.15,"body":"at risk of emotionally based"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":315.18,"endTime":318.75,"body":"school avoidance or EBSA. She"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":315.18,"endTime":318.75,"body":"has contributed to local"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":318.75,"endTime":321.93,"body":"authority guidance on the needs"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":318.75,"endTime":321.93,"body":"of children who experience EBSA"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":322.40999999999997,"endTime":325.79999999999995,"body":"and regularly delivers training"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":322.40999999999997,"endTime":325.79999999999995,"body":"sessions to school staff and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":325.79999999999995,"endTime":328.65,"body":"social care colleagues. Jerrich,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":325.79999999999995,"endTime":328.65,"body":"welcome to the show."},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":328.68,"endTime":330.27,"body":"Thank you very"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":328.68,"endTime":330.27,"body":"much for having me. I'm very"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":330.27,"endTime":331.32,"body":"excited to be here."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":331.40999999999997,"endTime":332.88,"body":"Emotionally"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":331.40999999999997,"endTime":332.88,"body":"based school avoidance is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":332.88,"endTime":335.15999999999997,"body":"actually a topic I've been"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":332.88,"endTime":335.15999999999997,"body":"really keen to cover on the show"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":335.15999999999997,"endTime":336.99,"body":"for some time. So it's really"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":335.15999999999997,"endTime":336.99,"body":"great to have you on the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":336.99,"endTime":341.19,"body":"podcast. In recent years, we've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":336.99,"endTime":341.19,"body":"moved away from using the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":341.19,"endTime":344.34000000000003,"body":"terminology of school refusal,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":341.19,"endTime":344.34000000000003,"body":"the meaning of which is fairly"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":344.34000000000003,"endTime":348.24,"body":"clear to emotionally based"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":344.34000000000003,"endTime":348.24,"body":"school avoidance or EBSA. For"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":348.24,"endTime":352.53,"body":"short, can you tell us about why"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":348.24,"endTime":352.53,"body":"this change has been made and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":352.53,"endTime":354.17999999999995,"body":"what it means for schools and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":352.53,"endTime":354.17999999999995,"body":"teachers?"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":354.28,"endTime":356.43999999999994,"body":"Yes, of course."},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":354.28,"endTime":356.43999999999994,"body":"So emotionally based school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":356.43999999999994,"endTime":359.11,"body":"avoidance shortened into EBSA,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":356.43999999999994,"endTime":359.11,"body":"as you said is very much is"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":359.11,"endTime":361.65999999999997,"body":"trying to promote a more"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":359.11,"endTime":361.65999999999997,"body":"compassionate and child centred"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":361.65999999999997,"endTime":364.51,"body":"approach to school attendance"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":361.65999999999997,"endTime":364.51,"body":"issues. So if we kind of break"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":364.51,"endTime":367.53999999999996,"body":"the term down a little bit the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":364.51,"endTime":367.53999999999996,"body":"first part emotionally based,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":367.57000000000005,"endTime":370.68999999999994,"body":"we're using that in order to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":367.57000000000005,"endTime":370.68999999999994,"body":"hopefully capture and reflect"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":370.68999999999994,"endTime":373.87,"body":"the emotional complexity of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":370.68999999999994,"endTime":373.87,"body":"school avoidance behaviours."},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":374.11,"endTime":377.38,"body":"This is more than just an child"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":374.11,"endTime":377.38,"body":"and young person not wanting to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":377.38,"endTime":381.25,"body":"attend school or refusing school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":377.38,"endTime":381.25,"body":"as the previous term implies the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":381.25,"endTime":385.17999999999995,"body":"difficulties in attending school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":381.25,"endTime":385.17999999999995,"body":"are rooted in that emotional and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":385.17999999999995,"endTime":388.21000000000004,"body":"physical anguish and they can"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":385.17999999999995,"endTime":388.21000000000004,"body":"escalate to such an extent that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":388.21000000000004,"endTime":391.53999999999996,"body":"a child no longer feels able to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":388.21000000000004,"endTime":391.53999999999996,"body":"attend school at all. And then"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":391.53999999999996,"endTime":394.36,"body":"if we look at the latter part of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":391.53999999999996,"endTime":394.36,"body":"the new term school avoidance,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":394.39,"endTime":398.67999999999995,"body":"this refers to a psychological"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":394.39,"endTime":398.67999999999995,"body":"process involved in anxiety in"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":398.67999999999995,"endTime":401.86,"body":"the sense that avoidance is a"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":398.67999999999995,"endTime":401.86,"body":"very natural and understandable"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":401.86,"endTime":405.18999999999994,"body":"reaction to stressful"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":401.86,"endTime":405.18999999999994,"body":"situations. So avoidance is a"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":405.18999999999994,"endTime":407.98,"body":"strategy that we all employ in"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":405.18999999999994,"endTime":407.98,"body":"different aspects of our lives."},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":407.98,"endTime":410.71000000000004,"body":"It's a self protective strategy."},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":407.98,"endTime":410.71000000000004,"body":"And it's a very effective"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":410.71000000000004,"endTime":413.77,"body":"strategy for keeping us safe"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":410.71000000000004,"endTime":413.77,"body":"from things that make us feel"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":413.83000000000004,"endTime":418.09000000000003,"body":"anxious. But the term avoidance"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":413.83000000000004,"endTime":418.09000000000003,"body":"also invites us to be curious"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":418.12,"endTime":420.88,"body":"about the aspects of the child's"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":418.12,"endTime":420.88,"body":"world that could be triggering"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":420.88,"endTime":423.58000000000004,"body":"that stress response, and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":420.88,"endTime":423.58000000000004,"body":"leading to those feelings of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":423.61,"endTime":427.27,"body":"needing to escape needing to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":423.61,"endTime":427.27,"body":"avoid so the term EBSA also"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":427.27,"endTime":430.39,"body":"concerns itself with those"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":427.27,"endTime":430.39,"body":"environmental factors that are"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":430.39,"endTime":433.6,"body":"likely to be feeding into or"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":430.39,"endTime":433.6,"body":"perpetuating the child's"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":433.6,"endTime":436.9,"body":"difficulties at school. So we're"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":433.6,"endTime":436.9,"body":"really trying to kind of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":436.92999999999995,"endTime":440.26,"body":"encourage that shift away from"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":436.92999999999995,"endTime":440.26,"body":"the within child model of school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":440.26,"endTime":444.25,"body":"refusal, which has you alluded"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":440.26,"endTime":444.25,"body":"to a number of very unhelpful"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":444.25,"endTime":447.64,"body":"and negative connotations around"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":444.25,"endTime":447.64,"body":"choice and control. But it also"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":447.64,"endTime":450.46000000000004,"body":"detracts from those important"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":447.64,"endTime":450.46000000000004,"body":"environmental factors that we"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":450.46000000000004,"endTime":453.18999999999994,"body":"know could be feeding into the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":450.46000000000004,"endTime":453.18999999999994,"body":"EBSA, and as well as the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":453.18999999999994,"endTime":455.77,"body":"environmental factors that could"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":453.18999999999994,"endTime":455.77,"body":"be instrumental in supporting a"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":455.77,"endTime":458.55999999999995,"body":"child to return to school. So"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":455.77,"endTime":458.55999999999995,"body":"emotionally based school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":458.55999999999995,"endTime":461.55999999999995,"body":"avoidance, the new terminology,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":458.55999999999995,"endTime":461.55999999999995,"body":"and the new framework is very"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":461.55999999999995,"endTime":464.91999999999996,"body":"much a holistic approach to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":461.55999999999995,"endTime":464.91999999999996,"body":"understanding children's needs"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":464.91999999999996,"endTime":467.43999999999994,"body":"around school attendance and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":464.91999999999996,"endTime":467.43999999999994,"body":"school attendance difficulties"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":467.47,"endTime":469.99,"body":"and their individual context"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":467.47,"endTime":469.99,"body":"within that."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":470.08000000000004,"endTime":472.39,"body":"When you say"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":470.08000000000004,"endTime":472.39,"body":"environmental factors. What do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":472.39,"endTime":474.82000000000005,"body":"you mean by that? Because I can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":472.39,"endTime":474.82000000000005,"body":"understand a child's say, having"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":474.88,"endTime":477.85,"body":"anxiety about going into school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":474.88,"endTime":477.85,"body":"Where do environmental factors"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":477.85,"endTime":479.55999999999995,"body":"come in? What sort of factors do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":477.85,"endTime":479.55999999999995,"body":"you mean?"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":479.35,"endTime":482.04999999999995,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":479.35,"endTime":482.04999999999995,"body":"traditionally, school refusal"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":482.11,"endTime":484.96000000000004,"body":"very much placed blame within"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":482.11,"endTime":484.96000000000004,"body":"the child. So it's very much a"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":484.96000000000004,"endTime":488.71000000000004,"body":"kind of within child experience"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":484.96000000000004,"endTime":488.71000000000004,"body":"of anxiety or kind of refusal,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":485.23,"endTime":532.63,"body":"When you work with young people,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":485.23,"endTime":532.63,"body":"what sort of common causes Do"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":488.71000000000004,"endTime":492.01,"body":"or a choice of not wanting to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":488.71000000000004,"endTime":492.01,"body":"attend school, whereas now we're"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":492.01,"endTime":494.04999999999995,"body":"very much broadening our"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":492.01,"endTime":494.04999999999995,"body":"understanding around the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":494.04999999999995,"endTime":495.93999999999994,"body":"framework of emotion based"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":494.04999999999995,"endTime":495.93999999999994,"body":"school avoidance in terms of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":495.93999999999994,"endTime":498.70000000000005,"body":"environmental factors. And"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":495.93999999999994,"endTime":498.70000000000005,"body":"really, I think environmental"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":498.70000000000005,"endTime":501.82000000000005,"body":"factors can occur across you"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":498.70000000000005,"endTime":501.82000000000005,"body":"know, three key areas, we're"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":501.82000000000005,"endTime":504.1,"body":"looking at the things that are"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":501.82000000000005,"endTime":504.1,"body":"happening at the child level,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":504.1,"endTime":506.74,"body":"but also at the home level, and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":504.1,"endTime":506.74,"body":"the school base level. And"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":506.74,"endTime":509.62,"body":"environmental factors can also"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":506.74,"endTime":509.62,"body":"exist across the cultural and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":509.62,"endTime":512.95,"body":"societal level as well, in terms"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":509.62,"endTime":512.95,"body":"of how we conceptualise"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":512.95,"endTime":516.64,"body":"attendance and how we respond to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":512.95,"endTime":516.64,"body":"incidents of non attendance. I"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":516.64,"endTime":519.97,"body":"talk a lot about environmental"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":516.64,"endTime":519.97,"body":"factors and the aspects of a"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":519.97,"endTime":523.21,"body":"child's emotionally based school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":519.97,"endTime":523.21,"body":"avoidance. So the causes and the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":523.21,"endTime":525.52,"body":"things that are happening within"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":523.21,"endTime":525.52,"body":"the environment that are also"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":525.52,"endTime":528.28,"body":"feeding into and perpetuating"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":525.52,"endTime":528.28,"body":"the emotion based school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":528.28,"endTime":529.0,"body":"avoidance."},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":532.63,"endTime":534.34,"body":"you see driving EBSA?"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":534.46,"endTime":537.67,"body":"Yeah, so this is a tricky"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":534.46,"endTime":537.67,"body":"question is there's so much to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":537.67,"endTime":541.96,"body":"unpack when trying to decipher"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":537.67,"endTime":541.96,"body":"the causes of EBSA. And like, in"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":541.96,"endTime":545.41,"body":"many situations, there's no"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":541.96,"endTime":545.41,"body":"single cause or simple one size"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":545.41,"endTime":548.2,"body":"fits all solution. And more"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":545.41,"endTime":548.2,"body":"often than not absolutes, that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":548.2,"endTime":550.96,"body":"really complex interplay of a"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":548.2,"endTime":550.96,"body":"number of different factors that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":550.96,"endTime":554.56,"body":"interact over time. And there's"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":550.96,"endTime":554.56,"body":"a lot of multi layered barriers"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":554.59,"endTime":557.26,"body":"to a child's attendance which"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":554.59,"endTime":557.26,"body":"can exist at the individual"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":557.26,"endTime":560.23,"body":"child level, but also across the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":557.26,"endTime":560.23,"body":"home and school context and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":560.23,"endTime":562.84,"body":"within the environment. However,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":560.23,"endTime":562.84,"body":"having said that, there are"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":562.84,"endTime":565.63,"body":"common experiences and patterns"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":562.84,"endTime":565.63,"body":"that we can pull out from the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":565.63,"endTime":568.42,"body":"literature. And this can be"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":565.63,"endTime":568.42,"body":"really useful when wanting to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":568.45,"endTime":571.27,"body":"adopt more of a proactive"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":568.45,"endTime":571.27,"body":"approach to EBSA. So if we have"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":571.27,"endTime":574.24,"body":"an awareness of some of those"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":571.27,"endTime":574.24,"body":"environmental risk factors, so"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":574.24,"endTime":577.15,"body":"these are the risk factors that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":574.24,"endTime":577.15,"body":"may be predisposed or make a"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":577.15,"endTime":580.33,"body":"child vulnerable to experiencing"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":577.15,"endTime":580.33,"body":"EBSA, then we put ourselves in a"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":580.33,"endTime":582.31,"body":"position where we can"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":580.33,"endTime":582.31,"body":"potentially identify these"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":582.31,"endTime":585.61,"body":"children during those earliest"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":582.31,"endTime":585.61,"body":"stages. So in terms of some of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":585.61,"endTime":589.18,"body":"these common causes, we know"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":585.61,"endTime":589.18,"body":"that an individual child level"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":589.21,"endTime":592.21,"body":"that anxiety often plays a"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":589.21,"endTime":592.21,"body":"really significant role in"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":592.21,"endTime":595.12,"body":"emotionally based school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":592.21,"endTime":595.12,"body":"avoidance and anxiety is one of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":595.12,"endTime":598.03,"body":"the defining features of episode"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":595.12,"endTime":598.03,"body":"that distinguishes it from other"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":598.03,"endTime":601.84,"body":"forms nonattendance, such as"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":598.03,"endTime":601.84,"body":"truancy or ill health. And we"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":601.84,"endTime":604.63,"body":"know that when a child has"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":601.84,"endTime":604.63,"body":"limited strategies to cope with"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":604.63,"endTime":607.78,"body":"those high levels of anxiety, or"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":604.63,"endTime":607.78,"body":"perhaps a school environment"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":607.78,"endTime":610.6,"body":"isn't conducive to supporting"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":607.78,"endTime":610.6,"body":"their needs, at this time, maybe"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":610.6,"endTime":613.99,"body":"there's unmet Sen needs, or"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":610.6,"endTime":613.99,"body":"there's things happening within"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":613.99,"endTime":616.99,"body":"their school environment that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":613.99,"endTime":616.99,"body":"are extremely distressing. So"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":616.99,"endTime":620.02,"body":"experiences of bullying, lack of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":616.99,"endTime":620.02,"body":"friendships, lack of belonging,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":620.0500000000001,"endTime":623.2900000000001,"body":"then actually what happens is"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":620.0500000000001,"endTime":623.2900000000001,"body":"the child enters that cycle of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":623.2900000000001,"endTime":626.59,"body":"anxiety avoidance. And we know"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":623.2900000000001,"endTime":626.59,"body":"that this is a vicious cycle as"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":626.59,"endTime":629.1700000000001,"body":"avoidance brings that instant"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":626.59,"endTime":629.1700000000001,"body":"comfort and relief from the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":629.1700000000001,"endTime":631.57,"body":"things that are difficult and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":629.1700000000001,"endTime":631.57,"body":"that are happening. But actually"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":631.57,"endTime":634.39,"body":"what happens in the longer term"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":631.57,"endTime":634.39,"body":"is that anxiety grows. And then"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":634.39,"endTime":636.76,"body":"the next time the child"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":634.39,"endTime":636.76,"body":"encounters that stressful,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":636.76,"endTime":639.6700000000001,"body":"anxiety provoking situation, ie"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":636.76,"endTime":639.6700000000001,"body":"the school environment, it gets"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":639.6700000000001,"endTime":641.86,"body":"bigger. But we also know in"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":639.6700000000001,"endTime":641.86,"body":"terms of some of those"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":641.86,"endTime":645.4,"body":"environmental factors that we"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":641.86,"endTime":645.4,"body":"get peaks in EBSA across key"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":645.4,"endTime":648.1,"body":"transition points. So the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":645.4,"endTime":648.1,"body":"literature shows that we get"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":648.1,"endTime":651.73,"body":"peaks in EBSA, across that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":648.1,"endTime":651.73,"body":"primary to secondary transition,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":651.76,"endTime":654.7900000000001,"body":"as well as in those first two"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":651.76,"endTime":654.7900000000001,"body":"years of secondary school. And I"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":654.7900000000001,"endTime":656.77,"body":"think there's a lot that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":654.7900000000001,"endTime":656.77,"body":"probably happens in those first"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":656.77,"endTime":659.83,"body":"two years of secondary school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":656.77,"endTime":659.83,"body":"that plays into that sort of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":659.83,"endTime":663.19,"body":"peaking up so that we see in"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":659.83,"endTime":663.19,"body":"terms of developing friendships,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":663.19,"endTime":665.77,"body":"establishing yourself within a"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":663.19,"endTime":665.77,"body":"friendship group as well as"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":665.77,"endTime":668.53,"body":"coping with the increasing"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":665.77,"endTime":668.53,"body":"demands of a secondary school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":668.53,"endTime":671.77,"body":"environment. So the larger class"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":668.53,"endTime":671.77,"body":"sizes having to relate to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":671.77,"endTime":674.86,"body":"multiple teachers who might have"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":671.77,"endTime":674.86,"body":"different teaching styles, but"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":674.86,"endTime":677.98,"body":"we also see different risk"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":674.86,"endTime":677.98,"body":"factors across the family"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":677.98,"endTime":681.4,"body":"environment. So a risk factor in"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":677.98,"endTime":681.4,"body":"the literature is around an"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":681.4,"endTime":684.3100000000001,"body":"older sibling for example, who"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":681.4,"endTime":684.3100000000001,"body":"might have experienced EBSA and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":684.3100000000001,"endTime":687.5500000000001,"body":"the child's kind of seen and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":684.3100000000001,"endTime":687.5500000000001,"body":"witnessed school avoidance"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":687.6700000000001,"endTime":691.0600000000001,"body":"strategy model previously to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":687.6700000000001,"endTime":691.0600000000001,"body":"deal with that distress, or even"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":691.0600000000001,"endTime":694.21,"body":"parents own educational"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":691.0600000000001,"endTime":694.21,"body":"journeys, and the anxieties that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":694.21,"endTime":697.21,"body":"the parent might hold around"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":694.21,"endTime":697.21,"body":"their experiences at school and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":697.21,"endTime":699.88,"body":"the projection of that onto"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":697.21,"endTime":699.88,"body":"their child, and of course,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":699.91,"endTime":702.4,"body":"there's lots of environmental"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":699.91,"endTime":702.4,"body":"risk factors at the school level"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":702.4,"endTime":705.37,"body":"as well, which I've alluded to."},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":702.4,"endTime":705.37,"body":"And often a key one is around"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":705.37,"endTime":708.3100000000001,"body":"friendship, difficulties,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":705.37,"endTime":708.3100000000001,"body":"bullying, feelings of isolation."},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":708.34,"endTime":711.64,"body":"So there's so much that feeds"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":708.34,"endTime":711.64,"body":"into emotion based school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":711.64,"endTime":715.12,"body":"avoidance too much to cover in"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":711.64,"endTime":715.12,"body":"this one podcast. And actually,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":715.12,"endTime":718.09,"body":"within my course, the EBSA"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":715.12,"endTime":718.09,"body":"Horizons course, we have what's"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":718.09,"endTime":720.76,"body":"called the EBSA risk and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":718.09,"endTime":720.76,"body":"resilience profiles. And the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":720.76,"endTime":724.69,"body":"first part of that profiling"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":720.76,"endTime":724.69,"body":"tool is looking at all of those"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":724.69,"endTime":727.27,"body":"kinds of predisposing risk"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":724.69,"endTime":727.27,"body":"factors of which there's"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":727.27,"endTime":731.02,"body":"actually 48. In total, not every"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":727.27,"endTime":731.02,"body":"child will have all 48 of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":731.0500000000001,"endTime":732.97,"body":"course, but these are common"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":731.0500000000001,"endTime":732.97,"body":"themes from the research"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":732.97,"endTime":735.97,"body":"literature that feed into and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":732.97,"endTime":735.97,"body":"perpetuate EBSA. So it enables"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":735.97,"endTime":738.82,"body":"you to kind of really analyse"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":735.97,"endTime":738.82,"body":"what the common causes for that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":738.82,"endTime":741.34,"body":"child and in their individual"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":738.82,"endTime":741.34,"body":"context could be."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":741.37,"endTime":743.38,"body":"We already said"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":741.37,"endTime":743.38,"body":"that all these children are in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":743.41,"endTime":746.9200000000001,"body":"individuals that they all have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":743.41,"endTime":746.9200000000001,"body":"their own reasons and profiles"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":746.95,"endTime":749.83,"body":"that sort of drives their EBSA."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":746.95,"endTime":749.83,"body":"But in general, when you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":749.83,"endTime":752.71,"body":"working with children, when you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":749.83,"endTime":752.71,"body":"speak to them, how do they feel"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":752.74,"endTime":756.28,"body":"about their anxieties in school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":752.74,"endTime":756.28,"body":"avoidance? Do they want to be at"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":756.28,"endTime":758.98,"body":"school, but just find it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":756.28,"endTime":758.98,"body":"difficult to be there? Do they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":758.98,"endTime":761.44,"body":"want to push the problem away"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":758.98,"endTime":761.44,"body":"and pretend like it's not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":761.44,"endTime":763.8100000000001,"body":"happening or everything will be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":761.44,"endTime":763.8100000000001,"body":"okay, if they don't go to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":763.8100000000001,"endTime":765.5500000000001,"body":"school? What kind of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":763.8100000000001,"endTime":765.5500000000001,"body":"conversations do you have?"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":765.58,"endTime":767.6800000000001,"body":"One of the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":765.58,"endTime":767.6800000000001,"body":"biggest misconceptions around"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":767.71,"endTime":771.28,"body":"EBSA is that people think"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":767.71,"endTime":771.28,"body":"because the child is finding it"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":771.28,"endTime":774.22,"body":"difficult to attend school, and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":771.28,"endTime":774.22,"body":"they might be communicating that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":774.22,"endTime":776.83,"body":"distress around attending school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":774.22,"endTime":776.83,"body":"in various different ways. One"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":776.83,"endTime":781.03,"body":"way might be some very kind of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":776.83,"endTime":781.03,"body":"overt challenging behaviours is"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":781.03,"endTime":783.76,"body":"it that the observed behaviours"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":781.03,"endTime":783.76,"body":"are misinterpreted to mean that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":783.76,"endTime":786.01,"body":"the child doesn't want to attend"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":783.76,"endTime":786.01,"body":"school, but actually, if you"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":786.01,"endTime":788.6800000000001,"body":"speak to the child, they really"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":786.01,"endTime":788.6800000000001,"body":"do want to attend school, and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":788.71,"endTime":790.96,"body":"they really want other people to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":788.71,"endTime":790.96,"body":"know that they want to attend"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":790.96,"endTime":793.69,"body":"school. But at that moment in"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":790.96,"endTime":793.69,"body":"time, the anxiety is very"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":793.69,"endTime":797.26,"body":"overwhelming, and they lack the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":793.69,"endTime":797.26,"body":"skills and strategies to kind of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":797.26,"endTime":799.36,"body":"engage your school at that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":797.26,"endTime":799.36,"body":"moment. But I think most"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":799.36,"endTime":802.24,"body":"definitely, there's a real"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":799.36,"endTime":802.24,"body":"misconception around the child's"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":802.3000000000001,"endTime":804.61,"body":"you know, perceptions of school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":802.3000000000001,"endTime":804.61,"body":"and the extent to which they"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":804.61,"endTime":807.3100000000001,"body":"want to attend school, I would"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":804.61,"endTime":807.3100000000001,"body":"say most children that I work"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":807.3100000000001,"endTime":809.47,"body":"with really want to attend"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":807.3100000000001,"endTime":809.47,"body":"school, and they want other"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":809.47,"endTime":812.6800000000001,"body":"people to know that I think some"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":809.47,"endTime":812.6800000000001,"body":"of our older students, so our"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":812.6800000000001,"endTime":815.5,"body":"maybe our secondary school aged"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":812.6800000000001,"endTime":815.5,"body":"students who have a greater"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":815.5,"endTime":818.2,"body":"breadth of vocabulary, but more"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":815.5,"endTime":818.2,"body":"insight into their emotions,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":818.23,"endTime":820.4200000000001,"body":"they might be able to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":818.23,"endTime":820.4200000000001,"body":"specifically pinpoint and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":820.4200000000001,"endTime":823.99,"body":"anxiety or worry at school,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":820.4200000000001,"endTime":823.99,"body":"share that with a parent carer"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":823.99,"endTime":826.72,"body":"or an adult. And you can kind of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":823.99,"endTime":826.72,"body":"work within that framework of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":826.72,"endTime":830.32,"body":"that worry quite concretely."},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":826.72,"endTime":830.32,"body":"However, what I find in my work"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":830.32,"endTime":833.47,"body":"as an educational psychologist,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":830.32,"endTime":833.47,"body":"is that for most children who"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":833.47,"endTime":837.19,"body":"experience EBSA, they actually"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":833.47,"endTime":837.19,"body":"don't have that conscious, well"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":837.19,"endTime":840.37,"body":"informed understanding around"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":837.19,"endTime":840.37,"body":"anxiety or of their kind of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":840.4,"endTime":843.28,"body":"thoughts and feelings around"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":840.4,"endTime":843.28,"body":"school. And actually, it's much"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":843.28,"endTime":847.4200000000001,"body":"more felt at that psychosomatic"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":843.28,"endTime":847.4200000000001,"body":"sort of experience of anxiety,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":847.4200000000001,"endTime":850.66,"body":"the tummy aches, the headaches,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":847.4200000000001,"endTime":850.66,"body":"the feelings of dread the signs"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":850.66,"endTime":853.99,"body":"and symptoms of anxiety, without"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":850.66,"endTime":853.99,"body":"more conscious awareness of the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":853.99,"endTime":856.4200000000001,"body":"thoughts and feelings. And"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":853.99,"endTime":856.4200000000001,"body":"actually, when I work with"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":856.4200000000001,"endTime":858.6700000000001,"body":"children in that sort of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":856.4200000000001,"endTime":858.6700000000001,"body":"position, they're very"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":858.6700000000001,"endTime":862.0600000000001,"body":"overwhelmed by their experience"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":858.6700000000001,"endTime":862.0600000000001,"body":"of anxiety at school, and a lot"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":862.0600000000001,"endTime":865.4200000000001,"body":"of the work is around supporting"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":862.0600000000001,"endTime":865.4200000000001,"body":"them to have a framework to make"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":865.4200000000001,"endTime":868.66,"body":"sense of that. And to do some of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":865.4200000000001,"endTime":868.66,"body":"that understanding around those"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":868.66,"endTime":871.36,"body":"psychosomatic experiences and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":868.66,"endTime":871.36,"body":"what that means for them and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":871.39,"endTime":874.1800000000001,"body":"what's triggering them in school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":871.39,"endTime":874.1800000000001,"body":"and why they're feeling the way"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":874.1800000000001,"endTime":874.9300000000001,"body":"they're feeling"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":874.99,"endTime":877.09,"body":"That must have a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":874.99,"endTime":877.09,"body":"significant impact on parents as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":877.09,"endTime":879.61,"body":"well. Actually, when you see"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":877.09,"endTime":879.61,"body":"your child having stomach aches,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":879.61,"endTime":881.71,"body":"and as a parent, you've probably"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":879.61,"endTime":881.71,"body":"guessed, it's not a stomach"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":881.71,"endTime":884.08,"body":"ache. That's like a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":881.71,"endTime":884.08,"body":"psychosomatic experience of that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":884.08,"endTime":887.02,"body":"pain has been driven by their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":884.08,"endTime":887.02,"body":"anxiety. When you speak to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":887.02,"endTime":890.02,"body":"parents, out of curiosity, what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":887.02,"endTime":890.02,"body":"did they say? What was the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":890.02,"endTime":890.62,"body":"impact on them?"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":890.65,"endTime":892.87,"body":"Yeah and I"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":890.65,"endTime":892.87,"body":"think there's several impacts in"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":892.87,"endTime":896.5600000000001,"body":"this respect. I think sometimes,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":892.87,"endTime":896.5600000000001,"body":"because it comes out as tummy"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":896.5600000000001,"endTime":900.0400000000001,"body":"aches, feelings of sick feelings"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":896.5600000000001,"endTime":900.0400000000001,"body":"of nausea, it leads to parents,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":900.0400000000001,"endTime":902.71,"body":"even professionals, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":900.0400000000001,"endTime":902.71,"body":"questioning the legitimacy of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":902.71,"endTime":905.35,"body":"the episode because when the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":902.71,"endTime":905.35,"body":"parent agrees to keep your child"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":905.35,"endTime":907.75,"body":"at home, the tummy ache"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":905.35,"endTime":907.75,"body":"disappears, or they get them"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":907.75,"endTime":910.3000000000001,"body":"into school, and suddenly, they"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":907.75,"endTime":910.3000000000001,"body":"seem fine. And everyone says,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":910.3000000000001,"endTime":912.6700000000001,"body":"Oh, they're here, and they're"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":910.3000000000001,"endTime":912.6700000000001,"body":"fine. There's not a problem"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":912.6700000000001,"endTime":915.91,"body":"here. So sometimes it's about"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":912.6700000000001,"endTime":915.91,"body":"supporting families and schools"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":915.91,"endTime":919.1800000000001,"body":"to kind of unpick those"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":915.91,"endTime":919.1800000000001,"body":"observable behaviours and look"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":919.21,"endTime":922.3000000000001,"body":"at what lies beneath. For"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":919.21,"endTime":922.3000000000001,"body":"families who may be come to that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":922.3000000000001,"endTime":924.82,"body":"discovery themselves. They've"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":922.3000000000001,"endTime":924.82,"body":"noticed that pattern of the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":924.82,"endTime":928.0600000000001,"body":"tummy ache quickly disappearing,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":924.82,"endTime":928.0600000000001,"body":"I think it's really empowering"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":928.0600000000001,"endTime":930.85,"body":"for them to have that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":928.0600000000001,"endTime":930.85,"body":"conversation around how they can"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":930.85,"endTime":933.82,"body":"scaffold the child's"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":930.85,"endTime":933.82,"body":"understanding of their anxiety"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":933.82,"endTime":936.49,"body":"and move beyond that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":933.82,"endTime":936.49,"body":"psychosomatic experience and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":936.49,"endTime":939.3100000000001,"body":"actually move into more of an in"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":936.49,"endTime":939.3100000000001,"body":"depth conversation around what"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":939.3100000000001,"endTime":941.95,"body":"aspects of school the child is"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":939.3100000000001,"endTime":941.95,"body":"finding anxiety provoking, and I"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":941.95,"endTime":944.38,"body":"think that gives parents"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":941.95,"endTime":944.38,"body":"something to work with, doesn't"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":944.38,"endTime":946.78,"body":"it? It's hard to respond to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":944.38,"endTime":946.78,"body":"those tummy aches. But actually,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":946.78,"endTime":949.27,"body":"if you can empower your child to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":946.78,"endTime":949.27,"body":"share with you the aspect of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":949.27,"endTime":951.49,"body":"school that they're worrying"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":949.27,"endTime":951.49,"body":"about, then you can offer some"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":951.49,"endTime":953.2,"body":"support and validation around"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":951.49,"endTime":953.2,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":953.23,"endTime":956.02,"body":"From your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":953.23,"endTime":956.02,"body":"experience. How's the pandemic"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":956.0500000000001,"endTime":958.5400000000001,"body":"fed into the number of kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":956.0500000000001,"endTime":958.5400000000001,"body":"presenting with school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":958.5400000000001,"endTime":959.11,"body":"avoidance?"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":959.14,"endTime":962.35,"body":"Yes, so the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":959.14,"endTime":962.35,"body":"pandemic presents us with a lot"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":962.35,"endTime":965.62,"body":"of additional barriers to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":962.35,"endTime":965.62,"body":"attendance. We've experienced"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":965.65,"endTime":968.6800000000001,"body":"unprecedented disruptions to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":965.65,"endTime":968.6800000000001,"body":"children's schooling and I think"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":968.6800000000001,"endTime":971.8000000000001,"body":"this has impacted EBSA in a"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":968.6800000000001,"endTime":971.8000000000001,"body":"number of ways, including for"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":971.8000000000001,"endTime":974.44,"body":"children who experienced EBSA"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":971.8000000000001,"endTime":974.44,"body":"prior to the pandemic, so"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":974.44,"endTime":977.62,"body":"children were already aware of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":974.44,"endTime":977.62,"body":"and very worried. You know, some"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":977.62,"endTime":979.39,"body":"of them may have already been"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":977.62,"endTime":979.39,"body":"out of school for several"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":979.39,"endTime":982.33,"body":"months, and now this has been"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":979.39,"endTime":982.33,"body":"exacerbated by the school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":982.33,"endTime":985.39,"body":"closures and now having been out"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":982.33,"endTime":985.39,"body":"of school for several years, all"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":985.39,"endTime":987.88,"body":"the way through to children who"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":985.39,"endTime":987.88,"body":"weren't really on our radar"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":987.88,"endTime":990.97,"body":"before for whom these anxieties"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":987.88,"endTime":990.97,"body":"around school are completely"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":990.97,"endTime":993.46,"body":"new. And for these children this"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":990.97,"endTime":993.46,"body":"might have been because during"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":993.46,"endTime":996.64,"body":"the pandemic, they had events or"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":993.46,"endTime":996.64,"body":"experiences that led to some"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":996.64,"endTime":999.4,"body":"very legitimate fears for them."},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":996.64,"endTime":999.4,"body":"So they might have experienced a"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":999.4,"endTime":1002.1,"body":"bereavement in relation to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":999.4,"endTime":1002.1,"body":"COVID, they might have had"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1002.1,"endTime":1004.5600000000001,"body":"family members in the shielding"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1002.1,"endTime":1004.5600000000001,"body":"group, or they might have parent"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1004.5600000000001,"endTime":1006.57,"body":"carers that were on the front"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1004.5600000000001,"endTime":1006.57,"body":"line working within the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1006.57,"endTime":1009.27,"body":"pandemic. For these children, we"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1006.57,"endTime":1009.27,"body":"need to work in a slightly"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1009.27,"endTime":1011.76,"body":"different way because we need to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1009.27,"endTime":1011.76,"body":"really validate those legitimate"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1011.76,"endTime":1014.82,"body":"fears and their bases, whilst"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1011.76,"endTime":1014.82,"body":"also supporting that more"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1014.85,"endTime":1018.09,"body":"hopeful narrative of safety that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1014.85,"endTime":1018.09,"body":"we're beginning to work towards."},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1018.1800000000001,"endTime":1021.0600000000001,"body":"And I think something that I"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1018.1800000000001,"endTime":1021.0600000000001,"body":"really grappled with as an"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1021.0600000000001,"endTime":1023.64,"body":"educational psychologist through"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1021.0600000000001,"endTime":1023.64,"body":"the pandemic, something I've"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1023.64,"endTime":1027.75,"body":"noticed with children is for"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1023.64,"endTime":1027.75,"body":"children with sensory needs. So"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1027.75,"endTime":1030.93,"body":"lots of children who are on the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1027.75,"endTime":1030.93,"body":"autistic spectrum, and how"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1030.93,"endTime":1034.83,"body":"actually they've thrived in the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1030.93,"endTime":1034.83,"body":"context of online learning and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1034.83,"endTime":1037.86,"body":"more flexible approaches to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1034.83,"endTime":1037.86,"body":"learning. And there's both"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1037.86,"endTime":1040.98,"body":"strengths and challenges of this"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1037.86,"endTime":1040.98,"body":"as we come out of the pandemic."},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1041.01,"endTime":1044.73,"body":"One challenge is how do we"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1041.01,"endTime":1044.73,"body":"reintegrate children with high"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1044.73,"endTime":1048.72,"body":"levels of sensory needs to how"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1044.73,"endTime":1048.72,"body":"we support them to increase"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1048.72,"endTime":1051.78,"body":"their tolerance for the sensory"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1048.72,"endTime":1051.78,"body":"demands of the school day when"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1051.78,"endTime":1054.3,"body":"actually they found their time"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1051.78,"endTime":1054.3,"body":"at home to be much more"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1054.3,"endTime":1056.46,"body":"comfortable, and they've been"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1054.3,"endTime":1056.46,"body":"able to engage in learning"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1056.49,"endTime":1059.82,"body":"without those distractions or"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1056.49,"endTime":1059.82,"body":"those discomforts. But also"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1059.82,"endTime":1062.19,"body":"thinking in terms of the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1059.82,"endTime":1062.19,"body":"strengths of that situation,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1062.22,"endTime":1064.74,"body":"what we take away from those"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1062.22,"endTime":1064.74,"body":"more flexible arrangements"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1064.74,"endTime":1067.62,"body":"around the pandemic and the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1064.74,"endTime":1067.62,"body":"fluency that we've achieved in"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1067.62,"endTime":1070.8,"body":"these online learning modules"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1067.62,"endTime":1070.8,"body":"and how we can utilise this"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1070.8,"endTime":1073.1399999999999,"body":"moving forward to support"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1070.8,"endTime":1073.1399999999999,"body":"children who experience EBSA"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1073.3799999999999,"endTime":1074.46,"body":"it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1073.3799999999999,"endTime":1074.46,"body":"interesting, we're working with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1074.46,"endTime":1077.34,"body":"a number of children at the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1074.46,"endTime":1077.34,"body":"moment who are saying I was able"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1077.34,"endTime":1080.22,"body":"to learn perfectly well during"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1077.34,"endTime":1080.22,"body":"the lockdown online without"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1080.22,"endTime":1083.3999999999999,"body":"having to go into this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1080.22,"endTime":1083.3999999999999,"body":"environment I find incredibly"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1083.46,"endTime":1086.58,"body":"anxiety provoking. So why have I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1083.46,"endTime":1086.58,"body":"got to start now, in your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1086.58,"endTime":1090.54,"body":"experience, what's the best way"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1086.58,"endTime":1090.54,"body":"to support children with EBSA?"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1090.57,"endTime":1093.09,"body":"So in my"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1090.57,"endTime":1093.09,"body":"opinion, the best way to help a"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1093.09,"endTime":1096.33,"body":"child who's experiencing emotion"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1093.09,"endTime":1096.33,"body":"based school avoidance is to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1096.33,"endTime":1099.48,"body":"talk to them and to find"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1096.33,"endTime":1099.48,"body":"activities that enable them to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1099.48,"endTime":1102.6599999999999,"body":"open up and share their"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1099.48,"endTime":1102.6599999999999,"body":"experiences about school. And I"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1102.6599999999999,"endTime":1105.8999999999999,"body":"very much advocate that often"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1102.6599999999999,"endTime":1105.8999999999999,"body":"the solutions and answers that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1105.8999999999999,"endTime":1109.71,"body":"we're searching for around EBSA,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1105.8999999999999,"endTime":1109.71,"body":"or within this person centred"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1109.71,"endTime":1112.8899999999999,"body":"work with a child, this is the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1109.71,"endTime":1112.8899999999999,"body":"most powerful thing that we can"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1112.8899999999999,"endTime":1116.37,"body":"do for the child. And the best"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1112.8899999999999,"endTime":1116.37,"body":"way to get our answers is to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1116.37,"endTime":1117.81,"body":"have those conversations."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1117.9299999999998,"endTime":1119.82,"body":"How do you open"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1117.9299999999998,"endTime":1119.82,"body":"those conversations if the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1119.82,"endTime":1121.35,"body":"child's reluctant to have them?"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1121.3799999999999,"endTime":1124.1699999999998,"body":"So I think we"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1121.3799999999999,"endTime":1124.1699999999998,"body":"have to be mindful that at the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1124.1699999999998,"endTime":1126.78,"body":"moment when a child is"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1124.1699999999998,"endTime":1126.78,"body":"experiencing EBSA their current"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1126.78,"endTime":1130.4399999999998,"body":"strategy to deal with those"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1126.78,"endTime":1130.4399999999998,"body":"anxieties around school is to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1130.4699999999998,"endTime":1134.1,"body":"avoid school. So any talk around"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1130.4699999999998,"endTime":1134.1,"body":"returning to school or going"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1134.1,"endTime":1137.07,"body":"back to school or engage in"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1134.1,"endTime":1137.07,"body":"activities that is anxiety"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1137.07,"endTime":1139.77,"body":"provoking or distressing for"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1137.07,"endTime":1139.77,"body":"them is also going to raise"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1139.77,"endTime":1142.5,"body":"anxiety. So I think the first"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1139.77,"endTime":1142.5,"body":"thing is to always reassure a"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1142.5,"endTime":1144.9599999999998,"body":"child that that one conversation"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1142.5,"endTime":1144.9599999999998,"body":"doesn't mean you're suddenly"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1144.9599999999998,"endTime":1147.2099999999998,"body":"going to expect them to come to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1144.9599999999998,"endTime":1147.2099999999998,"body":"school returned to school or"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1147.2099999999998,"endTime":1150.06,"body":"engage in things that difficult"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1147.2099999999998,"endTime":1150.06,"body":"is that reassurance. It's that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1150.06,"endTime":1153.0,"body":"validation of the things that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1150.06,"endTime":1153.0,"body":"they find stressful in the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1153.0,"endTime":1157.02,"body":"research literature, children"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1153.0,"endTime":1157.02,"body":"report over and over again, that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1157.02,"endTime":1160.05,"body":"in regard to EBSA, so they don't"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1157.02,"endTime":1160.05,"body":"always feel listened to heard or"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1160.05,"endTime":1162.6299999999999,"body":"believed. So I think that's"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1160.05,"endTime":1162.6299999999999,"body":"always the first point of call"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1162.6299999999999,"endTime":1165.33,"body":"is to let them know that you're"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1162.6299999999999,"endTime":1165.33,"body":"listening, you're hearing and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1165.33,"endTime":1168.51,"body":"you're believing them. And then"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1165.33,"endTime":1168.51,"body":"I'm a big believer in using"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1168.54,"endTime":1171.6899999999998,"body":"creative activities, get your"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1168.54,"endTime":1171.6899999999998,"body":"colouring pencils out, and a big"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1171.6899999999998,"endTime":1174.9299999999998,"body":"pen and paper to support"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1171.6899999999998,"endTime":1174.9299999999998,"body":"children to use those projective"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1174.9299999999998,"endTime":1178.05,"body":"techniques. So to project their"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1174.9299999999998,"endTime":1178.05,"body":"worries on to whether it's a"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1178.05,"endTime":1181.23,"body":"character in a book or a drawing"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1178.05,"endTime":1181.23,"body":"that you're doing together to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1181.23,"endTime":1183.8999999999999,"body":"reduce the demands of that face"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1181.23,"endTime":1183.8999999999999,"body":"to face conversation and eye"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1183.8999999999999,"endTime":1187.23,"body":"contact and give them a creative"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1183.8999999999999,"endTime":1187.23,"body":"output to explore some of those"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1187.23,"endTime":1190.74,"body":"thoughts and feelings. So that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1187.23,"endTime":1190.74,"body":"could be as simple as you know,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1190.74,"endTime":1192.6299999999999,"body":"spend a couple of minutes"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1190.74,"endTime":1192.6299999999999,"body":"thinking about your thoughts and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1192.6299999999999,"endTime":1195.6,"body":"feelings about school and see if"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1192.6299999999999,"endTime":1195.6,"body":"you can just begin to draw that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1195.6,"endTime":1199.29,"body":"for me and wait out some of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1195.6,"endTime":1199.29,"body":"those awkward silences while the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1199.29,"endTime":1202.77,"body":"child you know thinks about it,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1199.29,"endTime":1202.77,"body":"and then begins to draw. And"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1202.77,"endTime":1205.35,"body":"often once a child starts"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1202.77,"endTime":1205.35,"body":"drawing, you can start weaving"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1205.35,"endTime":1207.78,"body":"in some of those questions"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1205.35,"endTime":1207.78,"body":"around how they feel about"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1207.78,"endTime":1210.06,"body":"school. Or there's more"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1207.78,"endTime":1210.06,"body":"structured assessment tools,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1210.09,"endTime":1212.85,"body":"like one of my resources, which"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1210.09,"endTime":1212.85,"body":"is the school wellbeing cards,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1212.85,"endTime":1215.1,"body":"which gives you more of a"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1212.85,"endTime":1215.1,"body":"structured format to having"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1215.1,"endTime":1217.26,"body":"those conversations around"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1215.1,"endTime":1217.26,"body":"experiences at school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1217.4099999999999,"endTime":1218.9699999999998,"body":"I've seen the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1217.4099999999999,"endTime":1218.9699999999998,"body":"cards and they are excellent."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1218.9699999999998,"endTime":1221.6399999999999,"body":"You want to quickly describe"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1218.9699999999998,"endTime":1221.6399999999999,"body":"what they are and how they work."},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1221.6699999999998,"endTime":1224.34,"body":"Yes, so the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1221.6699999999998,"endTime":1224.34,"body":"school wellbeing cards were"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1224.34,"endTime":1227.6699999999998,"body":"designed exactly for this"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1224.34,"endTime":1227.6699999999998,"body":"purpose. It's a deck of 40"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1227.6699999999998,"endTime":1231.4199999999998,"body":"picture cards that provides a"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1227.6699999999998,"endTime":1231.4199999999998,"body":"platform for children to explore"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1231.4199999999998,"endTime":1234.4199999999998,"body":"any anxieties or worries around"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1231.4199999999998,"endTime":1234.4199999999998,"body":"school and it uses those"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1234.4199999999998,"endTime":1237.33,"body":"projective techniques. So"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1234.4199999999998,"endTime":1237.33,"body":"there's a series of illustrated"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1237.33,"endTime":1240.24,"body":"characters and statement cards"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1237.33,"endTime":1240.24,"body":"onto which children can kind of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1240.24,"endTime":1242.6999999999998,"body":"project their worries and use"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1240.24,"endTime":1242.6999999999998,"body":"that as a vehicle to discuss"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1242.6999999999998,"endTime":1246.27,"body":"some of those worries. So"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1242.6999999999998,"endTime":1246.27,"body":"there's 20 risk cards, which"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1246.27,"endTime":1249.1499999999999,"body":"include things like I feel"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1246.27,"endTime":1249.1499999999999,"body":"unwell when I think about"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1249.1499999999999,"endTime":1251.9399999999998,"body":"school, I feel worried about the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1249.1499999999999,"endTime":1251.9399999999998,"body":"schoolwork, I feel worried when"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1251.9399999999998,"endTime":1255.2099999999998,"body":"I'm away from my parent carers,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1251.9399999999998,"endTime":1255.2099999999998,"body":"so you can start to uncover some"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1255.2099999999998,"endTime":1257.4599999999998,"body":"of those personal risk factors,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1255.2099999999998,"endTime":1257.4599999999998,"body":"of course, you're going to want"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1257.4599999999998,"endTime":1260.79,"body":"to reduce when improving well"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1257.4599999999998,"endTime":1260.79,"body":"being and school attendance. But"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1260.79,"endTime":1263.9399999999998,"body":"there's also those strength from"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1260.79,"endTime":1263.9399999999998,"body":"protective factors. So I enjoy"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1263.9399999999998,"endTime":1266.31,"body":"learning I feel included at"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1263.9399999999998,"endTime":1266.31,"body":"school, there's an adult I can"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1266.31,"endTime":1269.1899999999998,"body":"share my worries with so you're"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1266.31,"endTime":1269.1899999999998,"body":"looking at risk and then you're"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1269.1899999999998,"endTime":1272.04,"body":"also trying to balance it with"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1269.1899999999998,"endTime":1272.04,"body":"strength from protective factors"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1272.1,"endTime":1274.86,"body":"and an aspect of the school well"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1272.1,"endTime":1274.86,"body":"being cards but in any work that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1274.86,"endTime":1277.08,"body":"you do have a child who is"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1274.86,"endTime":1277.08,"body":"experiencing so it's also that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1277.08,"endTime":1280.11,"body":"opportunity to collaborate"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1277.08,"endTime":1280.11,"body":"around your action plan and your"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1280.11,"endTime":1283.1399999999999,"body":"reintegration plans. And it's"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1280.11,"endTime":1283.1399999999999,"body":"providing a platform in which"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1283.1399999999999,"endTime":1285.2099999999998,"body":"you can kind of look at those"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1283.1399999999999,"endTime":1285.2099999999998,"body":"risk factors and look at those"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1285.2099999999998,"endTime":1287.61,"body":"strength factors and come up"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1285.2099999999998,"endTime":1287.61,"body":"with a plan with the child about"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1287.61,"endTime":1290.4299999999998,"body":"how we can make school better"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1287.61,"endTime":1290.4299999999998,"body":"for them and how we can support"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1290.4299999999998,"endTime":1293.25,"body":"them to either return to school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1290.4299999999998,"endTime":1293.25,"body":"or to attend school more"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1293.25,"endTime":1294.1799999999998,"body":"consistently."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1294.24,"endTime":1295.98,"body":"So it sounds"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1294.24,"endTime":1295.98,"body":"like what you're describing is a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1295.98,"endTime":1300.03,"body":"very kind of bespoke response to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1295.98,"endTime":1300.03,"body":"individual children's needs and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1300.03,"endTime":1303.3,"body":"worries and anxieties. It's not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1300.03,"endTime":1303.3,"body":"like there's a book of six EPSA"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1303.3,"endTime":1306.0,"body":"or lesson plans that we can roll"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1303.3,"endTime":1306.0,"body":"out in the hope that is going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1306.06,"endTime":1307.9499999999998,"body":"address the underlying causes."},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1307.98,"endTime":1309.9299999999998,"body":"No, most"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1307.98,"endTime":1309.9299999999998,"body":"definitely not. So although we"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1309.9299999999998,"endTime":1313.08,"body":"have like commonalities in the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1309.9299999999998,"endTime":1313.08,"body":"research literature, it is very"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1313.08,"endTime":1316.6799999999998,"body":"individual and unique. So our"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1313.08,"endTime":1316.6799999999998,"body":"approach needs to be completely"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1316.6799999999998,"endTime":1317.34,"body":"bespoke."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1317.37,"endTime":1319.56,"body":"When you help to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1317.37,"endTime":1319.56,"body":"get a child back into school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1319.59,"endTime":1321.9299999999998,"body":"What's the impact for them and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1319.59,"endTime":1321.9299999999998,"body":"their family?"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1321.99,"endTime":1324.4499999999998,"body":"I think the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1321.99,"endTime":1324.4499999999998,"body":"immediate impact is one of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1324.4499999999998,"endTime":1329.25,"body":"relief across the whole network."},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1324.4499999999998,"endTime":1329.25,"body":"These are often messy, complex"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1329.25,"endTime":1332.8799999999999,"body":"cases. And especially when we"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1329.25,"endTime":1332.8799999999999,"body":"were operating within a school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1332.8799999999999,"endTime":1336.36,"body":"refusal framework, they were"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1332.8799999999999,"endTime":1336.36,"body":"very contentious cases as well,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1336.36,"endTime":1339.27,"body":"with schools and families often"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1336.36,"endTime":1339.27,"body":"becoming very polarised. So I"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1339.27,"endTime":1342.06,"body":"think when we get an EBSA case,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1339.27,"endTime":1342.06,"body":"and we make effective change,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1342.06,"endTime":1344.4299999999998,"body":"and we bring schools and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1342.06,"endTime":1344.4299999999998,"body":"families together, I think"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1344.4299999999998,"endTime":1347.49,"body":"there's just immense relief"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1344.4299999999998,"endTime":1347.49,"body":"across the whole network. I"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1347.49,"endTime":1351.1499999999999,"body":"think for the parents it's and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1347.49,"endTime":1351.1499999999999,"body":"the carers, it's that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1351.1799999999998,"endTime":1353.25,"body":"not having to deal with that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1351.1799999999998,"endTime":1353.25,"body":"daily morning battle and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1353.25,"endTime":1355.4099999999999,"body":"struggle to get child into"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1353.25,"endTime":1355.4099999999999,"body":"school every day. It's the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1355.4099999999999,"endTime":1357.87,"body":"reduction in feelings of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1355.4099999999999,"endTime":1357.87,"body":"isolation of being at home with"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1357.87,"endTime":1360.3,"body":"your child who's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1357.87,"endTime":1360.3,"body":"experiencing extreme distress"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1360.3,"endTime":1363.27,"body":"around school and at a child"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1360.3,"endTime":1363.27,"body":"level, it's about I think the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1363.27,"endTime":1365.52,"body":"biggest impact is around"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1363.27,"endTime":1365.52,"body":"reconnecting them with those"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1365.52,"endTime":1367.83,"body":"strengths and protective factors"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1365.52,"endTime":1367.83,"body":"that their school placement"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1367.86,"endTime":1370.9199999999998,"body":"affords them. So it's about"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1367.86,"endTime":1370.9199999999998,"body":"empowering that child to engage"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1370.9199999999998,"endTime":1373.8899999999999,"body":"in their learning, find joy,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1370.9199999999998,"endTime":1373.8899999999999,"body":"rebuild those friendships and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1373.8899999999999,"endTime":1376.8899999999999,"body":"that sense of belonging at"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1373.8899999999999,"endTime":1376.8899999999999,"body":"school and supporting them to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1376.9199999999998,"endTime":1379.77,"body":"flourish both academically and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1376.9199999999998,"endTime":1379.77,"body":"socially. And that certainly"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1379.77,"endTime":1382.32,"body":"what we do see within the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1379.77,"endTime":1382.32,"body":"practice is that when we do"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1382.32,"endTime":1384.9599999999998,"body":"successfully reintegrate child"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1382.32,"endTime":1384.9599999999998,"body":"get the child back into school,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1384.9599999999998,"endTime":1386.9099999999999,"body":"usually things begin to fall in"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1384.9599999999998,"endTime":1386.9099999999999,"body":"place,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1386.98,"endTime":1389.98,"body":"How likely is a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1386.98,"endTime":1389.98,"body":"child to, once you've got them"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1389.98,"endTime":1392.35,"body":"back into school, and you've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1389.98,"endTime":1392.35,"body":"done that programme of work in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1392.35,"endTime":1396.79,"body":"the long term? How likely is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1392.35,"endTime":1396.79,"body":"EBSA to recur in a child's life?"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1396.82,"endTime":1399.1899999999998,"body":"Yes, I think"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1396.82,"endTime":1399.1899999999998,"body":"that's a really valid and good"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1399.1899999999998,"endTime":1403.3899999999999,"body":"point to raise because one of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1399.1899999999998,"endTime":1403.3899999999999,"body":"the risk factors is previous"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1403.3899999999999,"endTime":1405.85,"body":"experiences of emotional high"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1403.3899999999999,"endTime":1405.85,"body":"school avoidance. So for"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1405.85,"endTime":1408.8799999999999,"body":"example, in primary school, also"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1405.85,"endTime":1408.8799999999999,"body":"previous experiences of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1408.8799999999999,"endTime":1412.4499999999998,"body":"separation anxiety, even dating"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1408.8799999999999,"endTime":1412.4499999999998,"body":"back to the preschool years, so"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1412.4499999999998,"endTime":1415.33,"body":"difficulty separating at"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1412.4499999999998,"endTime":1415.33,"body":"preschool. And that's why in my"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1415.33,"endTime":1417.9399999999998,"body":"approach to emotionally based"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1415.33,"endTime":1417.9399999999998,"body":"school avoidance, we very much"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1417.9399999999998,"endTime":1422.23,"body":"see attendance as a continuum,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1417.9399999999998,"endTime":1422.23,"body":"and not using non attendance as"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1422.23,"endTime":1426.6699999999998,"body":"our criteria to understanding"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1422.23,"endTime":1426.6699999999998,"body":"EBSA. If we use non attendance"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1426.6699999999998,"endTime":1430.06,"body":"as our criteria, so waiting till"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1426.6699999999998,"endTime":1430.06,"body":"the child stops at any school or"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1430.06,"endTime":1432.4299999999998,"body":"showing excessive non"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1430.06,"endTime":1432.4299999999998,"body":"attendance, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1432.4299999999998,"endTime":1434.8,"body":"child's got very far down the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1432.4299999999998,"endTime":1434.8,"body":"line of their distress at"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1434.8,"endTime":1436.9299999999998,"body":"school, and we want to be"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1434.8,"endTime":1436.9299999999998,"body":"intervening much earlier. So"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1436.9299999999998,"endTime":1440.32,"body":"it's really important that we"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1436.9299999999998,"endTime":1440.32,"body":"acknowledge that a child even"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1440.32,"endTime":1442.6,"body":"though they apparently got over"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1440.32,"endTime":1442.6,"body":"there emotionally based school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1442.6,"endTime":1445.3899999999999,"body":"avoidance that we still consider"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1442.6,"endTime":1445.3899999999999,"body":"their needs in their framework,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1445.4199999999998,"endTime":1447.9399999999998,"body":"as there's always that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1445.4199999999998,"endTime":1447.9399999999998,"body":"possibility that the absence"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1447.9399999999998,"endTime":1449.98,"body":"could reemerge following a"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1447.9399999999998,"endTime":1449.98,"body":"change in the child's"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1449.98,"endTime":1453.76,"body":"circumstances, or just, you"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1449.98,"endTime":1453.76,"body":"know, a change in the support"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1453.76,"endTime":1456.1599999999999,"body":"that's available to them. And"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1453.76,"endTime":1456.1599999999999,"body":"that could just be the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1456.1599999999999,"endTime":1458.7099999999998,"body":"transition to secondary school,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1456.1599999999999,"endTime":1458.7099999999998,"body":"we know that children who"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1458.7099999999998,"endTime":1461.3799999999999,"body":"experienced EBSA in primary"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1458.7099999999998,"endTime":1461.3799999999999,"body":"school, we got a really good"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1461.3799999999999,"endTime":1463.8999999999999,"body":"support package in place, it"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1461.3799999999999,"endTime":1463.8999999999999,"body":"seemed to resolve itself and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1463.8999999999999,"endTime":1466.33,"body":"were three, four years on, and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1463.8999999999999,"endTime":1466.33,"body":"then we get that transition to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1466.33,"endTime":1468.49,"body":"secondary school, everybody's"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1466.33,"endTime":1468.49,"body":"kind of forgotten about the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1468.49,"endTime":1470.83,"body":"episode because it felt"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1468.49,"endTime":1470.83,"body":"historical. And then all of a"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1470.83,"endTime":1473.29,"body":"sudden, we get a reemergence of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1470.83,"endTime":1473.29,"body":"the EBSA in secondary school,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1473.29,"endTime":1475.51,"body":"because those strengthening"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1473.29,"endTime":1475.51,"body":"protective factors that we"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1475.51,"endTime":1478.84,"body":"worked so hard to harness and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1475.51,"endTime":1478.84,"body":"improve, haven't been thought"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1478.84,"endTime":1481.6,"body":"about during that transition. So"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1478.84,"endTime":1481.6,"body":"I think it's really important to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1481.6,"endTime":1484.6599999999999,"body":"kind of think of EBSA as a"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1481.6,"endTime":1484.6599999999999,"body":"continuum of need, and look at"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1484.6599999999999,"endTime":1488.11,"body":"kind of attendance across the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1484.6599999999999,"endTime":1488.11,"body":"child's educational journey."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1488.1699999999998,"endTime":1490.6599999999999,"body":"If youre a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1488.1699999999998,"endTime":1490.6599999999999,"body":"teacher, or a parent listening"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1490.6599999999999,"endTime":1494.4699999999998,"body":"to this podcast, what's the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1490.6599999999999,"endTime":1494.4699999999998,"body":"first step you can take today to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1494.4699999999998,"endTime":1497.9199999999998,"body":"start helping your pupils or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1494.4699999999998,"endTime":1497.9199999999998,"body":"child with emotionally based"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1497.9199999999998,"endTime":1498.6999999999998,"body":"school avoidance?"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1498.73,"endTime":1500.77,"body":"Yeah, so what I"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1498.73,"endTime":1500.77,"body":"would love schools and families"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1500.8,"endTime":1504.1599999999999,"body":"to take away from this podcast"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1500.8,"endTime":1504.1599999999999,"body":"is to just get out there and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1504.1599999999999,"endTime":1507.49,"body":"talk to children find a way to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1504.1599999999999,"endTime":1507.49,"body":"access and shine a light on"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1507.49,"endTime":1510.9699999999998,"body":"their voice, supporting them to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1507.49,"endTime":1510.9699999999998,"body":"share their experiences of"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1510.9699999999998,"endTime":1513.9699999999998,"body":"school and how we can support"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1510.9699999999998,"endTime":1513.9699999999998,"body":"them. And to really commit to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1513.9699999999998,"endTime":1516.79,"body":"changing that narrative moving"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1513.9699999999998,"endTime":1516.79,"body":"away from the language of school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1516.79,"endTime":1519.1599999999999,"body":"refusal, that's something that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1516.79,"endTime":1519.1599999999999,"body":"we can do really quickly and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1519.1599999999999,"endTime":1522.04,"body":"easily. Language is really"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1519.1599999999999,"endTime":1522.04,"body":"powerful. And the language that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1522.04,"endTime":1525.04,"body":"we use often determines how we"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1522.04,"endTime":1525.04,"body":"respond to a child and their"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1525.04,"endTime":1528.1299999999999,"body":"family and the frameworks that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1525.04,"endTime":1528.1299999999999,"body":"we use. So really embracing the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1528.1299999999999,"endTime":1530.9199999999998,"body":"kind of language of emotion"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1528.1299999999999,"endTime":1530.9199999999998,"body":"based school avoidance, and that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1530.9199999999998,"endTime":1534.31,"body":"more compassionate and child"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1530.9199999999998,"endTime":1534.31,"body":"centred approach to EBSA."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1534.58,"endTime":1536.8,"body":"And how can our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1534.58,"endTime":1536.8,"body":"listeners find out more about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1536.8,"endTime":1539.59,"body":"the school wellbeing cards you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1536.8,"endTime":1539.59,"body":"were describing and your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1539.59,"endTime":1540.28,"body":"courses?"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1540.31,"endTime":1542.77,"body":"So the school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1540.31,"endTime":1542.77,"body":"wellbeing cards can be found on"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1542.77,"endTime":1546.8799999999999,"body":"my website, and we'll link a"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1542.77,"endTime":1546.8799999999999,"body":"direct link to that. And on my"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1546.8799999999999,"endTime":1550.6299999999999,"body":"website, there's also links to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1546.8799999999999,"endTime":1550.6299999999999,"body":"my EBSA Horizons courses. So I"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1550.6299999999999,"endTime":1553.78,"body":"have one for educational"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1550.6299999999999,"endTime":1553.78,"body":"psychologists and one also for"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1553.81,"endTime":1557.8,"body":"specifically for school staff."},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1553.81,"endTime":1557.8,"body":"And so Horizons is an online CPD"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1557.8,"endTime":1560.29,"body":"package, which is great because"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1557.8,"endTime":1560.29,"body":"you can take it at a time that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1560.29,"endTime":1562.81,"body":"is convenient for you. But I"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1560.29,"endTime":1562.81,"body":"also really encourage school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1562.81,"endTime":1565.48,"body":"staff to take it as you progress"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1562.81,"endTime":1565.48,"body":"through your work for child in"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1565.48,"endTime":1568.1799999999998,"body":"the family. So it's absolutely"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1565.48,"endTime":1568.1799999999998,"body":"packed full with lots of tools"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1568.1799999999998,"endTime":1570.8799999999999,"body":"and resources, like the risk and"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1568.1799999999998,"endTime":1570.8799999999999,"body":"resilience profiles that I was"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1570.8799999999999,"endTime":1573.82,"body":"talking about earlier that you"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1570.8799999999999,"endTime":1573.82,"body":"can use whilst you're working"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1573.82,"endTime":1576.55,"body":"with the child and their family"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1573.82,"endTime":1576.55,"body":"to kind of support them to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1576.55,"endTime":1579.73,"body":"overcome but also prevent EBSA"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1576.55,"endTime":1579.73,"body":"into the future in terms of that"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1579.73,"endTime":1582.28,"body":"more systemic and proactive"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1579.73,"endTime":1582.28,"body":"approach. And with the school"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1582.28,"endTime":1584.4699999999998,"body":"well being cards. I will just"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1582.28,"endTime":1584.4699999999998,"body":"mention that I also have video"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1584.4699999999998,"endTime":1587.56,"body":"tutorials on my website about"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1584.4699999999998,"endTime":1587.56,"body":"how you would do it. School"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1587.56,"endTime":1589.9599999999998,"body":"wellbeing cards and how you"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1587.56,"endTime":1589.9599999999998,"body":"would scaffold some of those"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1589.9599999999998,"endTime":1592.3899999999999,"body":"conversations with children"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1589.9599999999998,"endTime":1592.3899999999999,"body":"around their attendance"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1592.3899999999999,"endTime":1593.1999999999998,"body":"difficulties."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1593.23,"endTime":1595.8999999999999,"body":"And last of all,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1593.23,"endTime":1595.8999999999999,"body":"we ask this of all our guests."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1595.9299999999998,"endTime":1598.7199999999998,"body":"Who's the key figure that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1595.9299999999998,"endTime":1598.7199999999998,"body":"influenced you? Or what's the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1598.7199999999998,"endTime":1602.1699999999998,"body":"key book that you've read that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1598.7199999999998,"endTime":1602.1699999999998,"body":"had the biggest impact on your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1602.1699999999998,"endTime":1604.48,"body":"approach to working with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1602.1699999999998,"endTime":1604.48,"body":"children? It doesn't have to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1604.48,"endTime":1606.28,"body":"just EBSA children in general."},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1606.31,"endTime":1609.76,"body":"So it has to be"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1606.31,"endTime":1609.76,"body":"the dynamic duo that is Colin"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1609.76,"endTime":1613.1499999999999,"body":"and Derek from Inclusive"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1609.76,"endTime":1613.1499999999999,"body":"Solutions, who are incredible"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1613.1499999999999,"endTime":1616.6599999999999,"body":"psychologists who really"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1613.1499999999999,"endTime":1616.6599999999999,"body":"champion creative person centred"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1616.6599999999999,"endTime":1619.36,"body":"approaches to working with"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1616.6599999999999,"endTime":1619.36,"body":"children in particular, they"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1619.36,"endTime":1622.09,"body":"developed the path approach,"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1619.36,"endTime":1622.09,"body":"which stands for planning"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1622.09,"endTime":1624.85,"body":"alternative tomorrow's with"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1622.09,"endTime":1624.85,"body":"hope, as I think really, in"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1624.85,"endTime":1628.03,"body":"terms of EBSA, sometimes we need"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1624.85,"endTime":1628.03,"body":"to just park school attendance"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1628.06,"endTime":1630.82,"body":"and spend some time with the"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1628.06,"endTime":1630.82,"body":"child and their network really"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1630.82,"endTime":1633.6999999999998,"body":"exploring their hopes and dreams"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1630.82,"endTime":1633.6999999999998,"body":"for the future. What does this"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1633.6999999999998,"endTime":1638.08,"body":"child need to lead a meaningful"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1633.6999999999998,"endTime":1638.08,"body":"and fulfilling life and taking"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1638.08,"endTime":1640.48,"body":"those small steps every day to"},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1638.08,"endTime":1640.48,"body":"get the child there?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1640.7199999999998,"endTime":1642.52,"body":"Jerricah Thank"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1640.7199999999998,"endTime":1642.52,"body":"you very much. You've shared so"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1642.52,"endTime":1646.9599999999998,"body":"much practical, valuable advice"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1642.52,"endTime":1646.9599999999998,"body":"on the podcast today. Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1646.9599999999998,"endTime":1647.7099999999998,"body":"Thanks for being on the show."},{"speaker":"Jerricah Holder","startTime":1647.7099999999998,"endTime":1648.31,"body":"Thank you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1648.58,"endTime":1651.61,"body":"Jerrica shared"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1648.58,"endTime":1651.61,"body":"so much good information and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1651.6399999999999,"endTime":1652.7199999999998,"body":"insight there."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1652.75,"endTime":1654.6999999999998,"body":"Yeah, I know."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1652.75,"endTime":1654.6999999999998,"body":"And as we said in the interview,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1654.6999999999998,"endTime":1657.37,"body":"if you want to find out more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1654.6999999999998,"endTime":1657.37,"body":"about Jerricah's school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1657.37,"endTime":1660.73,"body":"wellbeing cards, or EBSA"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1657.37,"endTime":1660.73,"body":"training, check out the links in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1660.73,"endTime":1662.02,"body":"the episode description."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1662.11,"endTime":1664.2099999999998,"body":"And if you work"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1662.11,"endTime":1664.2099999999998,"body":"with children with challenging"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1664.2099999999998,"endTime":1667.4499999999998,"body":"behaviour, and you're not sure"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1664.2099999999998,"endTime":1667.4499999999998,"body":"why they're acting in that way,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1667.6299999999999,"endTime":1670.99,"body":"we've got a download that can"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1667.6299999999999,"endTime":1670.99,"body":"help. It's called the SEND"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1671.02,"endTime":1674.35,"body":"handbook, and it will help you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1671.02,"endTime":1674.35,"body":"to link behaviours that you're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1674.35,"endTime":1678.61,"body":"seeing in the classroom with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1674.35,"endTime":1678.61,"body":"possible causes such as autism,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1678.6399999999999,"endTime":1680.4099999999999,"body":"ADHD, and trauma."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1680.5,"endTime":1682.57,"body":"The idea here"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1680.5,"endTime":1682.57,"body":"isn't for teachers to try and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1682.57,"endTime":1686.05,"body":"make a diagnosis because we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1682.57,"endTime":1686.05,"body":"not qualified to do that. But if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1686.05,"endTime":1689.62,"body":"we can link behaviours to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1686.05,"endTime":1689.62,"body":"possible causes quickly, it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1689.62,"endTime":1691.84,"body":"means we can get the right help"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1689.62,"endTime":1691.84,"body":"get the right professionals"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1691.84,"endTime":1695.26,"body":"involved and get early"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1691.84,"endTime":1695.26,"body":"intervention strategies in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1695.26,"endTime":1695.83,"body":"place."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1695.8899999999999,"endTime":1698.56,"body":"And by the way,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1695.8899999999999,"endTime":1698.56,"body":"we've completely revamped the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1698.56,"endTime":1702.31,"body":"handbook in the last month or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1698.56,"endTime":1702.31,"body":"so. So now it contains fact"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1702.31,"endTime":1708.2199999999998,"body":"sheets on conditions such as"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1702.31,"endTime":1708.2199999999998,"body":"PDA, ODD, DLD, foetal alcohol"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1708.2199999999998,"endTime":1711.9399999999998,"body":"syndrome, and more. It's a free"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1708.2199999999998,"endTime":1711.9399999999998,"body":"download. So go over to our"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1711.9399999999998,"endTime":1715.8999999999999,"body":"website"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1711.9399999999998,"endTime":1715.8999999999999,"body":"beaconschoolsupport.co.uk, click"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1715.9299999999998,"endTime":1719.83,"body":"on Free Resources near the top,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1715.9299999999998,"endTime":1719.83,"body":"and we'll also put a link in the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1719.83,"endTime":1721.2099999999998,"body":"episode description."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1721.27,"endTime":1723.1599999999999,"body":"Now finally, if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1721.27,"endTime":1723.1599999999999,"body":"you've liked what you've heard"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1723.1599999999999,"endTime":1727.06,"body":"today, then make sure you don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1723.1599999999999,"endTime":1727.06,"body":"miss next week's episode, all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1727.06,"endTime":1730.09,"body":"you have to do is open your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1727.06,"endTime":1730.09,"body":"podcast app and press the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1730.09,"endTime":1732.6399999999999,"body":"subscribe button or follow as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1730.09,"endTime":1732.6399999999999,"body":"it's now called on Apple"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1732.6399999999999,"endTime":1736.6899999999998,"body":"podcasts. And your app will"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1732.6399999999999,"endTime":1736.6899999999998,"body":"automatically download every new"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1736.6899999999998,"endTime":1741.1599999999999,"body":"episode as it's released. So you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1736.6899999999998,"endTime":1741.1599999999999,"body":"don't miss a thing. And to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1741.1599999999999,"endTime":1744.6399999999999,"body":"celebrate, why not order a deck"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1741.1599999999999,"endTime":1744.6399999999999,"body":"of cards in a way that might"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1744.6399999999999,"endTime":1748.57,"body":"cause surprise or amuse to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1744.6399999999999,"endTime":1748.57,"body":"guests to your home. Really let"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1748.57,"endTime":1749.6499999999999,"body":"your imagination go."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1749.74,"endTime":1751.3,"body":"And how would"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1749.74,"endTime":1751.3,"body":"you do that?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1751.4499999999998,"endTime":1753.58,"body":"You know, just"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1751.4499999999998,"endTime":1753.58,"body":"use your imagination. The"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1753.58,"endTime":1754.7199999999998,"body":"possibilities are infinite."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1754.78,"endTime":1757.03,"body":"And with that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1754.78,"endTime":1757.03,"body":"nonsense. We're going to end the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1757.03,"endTime":1760.54,"body":"show. I hope you have a really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1757.03,"endTime":1760.54,"body":"great week and we look forward"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1760.54,"endTime":1763.6599999999999,"body":"to seeing you next time on"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1760.54,"endTime":1763.6599999999999,"body":"school behaviour secrets."}]}