{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.91,"body":"ODD is a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.91,"body":"condition where pupils find it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":2.91,"endTime":7.65,"body":"hard to manage their impulses"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":2.91,"endTime":7.65,"body":"and is driven by that really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":7.65,"endTime":12.9,"body":"strong need for control. Control"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":7.65,"endTime":12.9,"body":"is the big pull factor here."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":12.96,"endTime":16.02,"body":"Whereas PDA is a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":12.96,"endTime":16.02,"body":"condition where they're moving"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":16.05,"endTime":19.68,"body":"away from anxiety. Anxiety is a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":16.05,"endTime":19.68,"body":"massive factor. What they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":19.68,"endTime":23.46,"body":"trying to do is escape"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":19.68,"endTime":23.46,"body":"overwhelming demands, which is a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":23.46,"endTime":26.49,"body":"slightly different thing, but it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":23.46,"endTime":26.49,"body":"can result in very similar"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":26.49,"endTime":27.21,"body":"behaviours."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":27.36,"endTime":31.5,"body":"Welcome to the school behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":27.36,"endTime":31.5,"body":"secrets podcast. I'm your host,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":31.5,"endTime":34.53,"body":"Simon Currigan. My co host is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":31.5,"endTime":34.53,"body":"Emma Shackleton and we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":34.53,"endTime":38.22,"body":"obsessed with helping teachers,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":34.53,"endTime":38.22,"body":"school leaders, parents, and of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":38.22,"endTime":41.43,"body":"course students when classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":38.22,"endTime":41.43,"body":"behaviour gets in the way of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":41.43,"endTime":44.34,"body":"success. We're going to share"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":41.43,"endTime":44.34,"body":"the tried and tested secrets to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":44.34,"endTime":47.16,"body":"classroom management,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":44.34,"endTime":47.16,"body":"behavioural Special Needs, whole"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":47.16,"endTime":50.34,"body":"school strategy and more all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":47.16,"endTime":50.34,"body":"with the aim of helping your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":50.34,"endTime":53.43,"body":"students reach their true"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":50.34,"endTime":53.43,"body":"potential. Plus, we'll be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":53.43,"endTime":56.49,"body":"letting you eavesdrop on our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":53.43,"endTime":56.49,"body":"conversations with thought"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":56.49,"endTime":59.58,"body":"leaders from around the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":56.49,"endTime":59.58,"body":"So you'll get to hear their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":59.58,"endTime":64.14,"body":"latest evidence based strategies"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":59.58,"endTime":64.14,"body":"before anyone else. This is the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":64.14,"endTime":66.48,"body":"school behaviour secrets"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":64.14,"endTime":66.48,"body":"podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":66.6,"endTime":69.18,"body":"Hi there. My name is Simon"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":66.6,"endTime":69.18,"body":"Currigan and welcome to a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":69.18,"endTime":73.17,"body":"freshly baked episode of school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":69.18,"endTime":73.17,"body":"behaviour secrets. Philosopher"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":73.17,"endTime":76.89,"body":"Walter Benjamin once said"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":73.17,"endTime":76.89,"body":"\"boredom is the dream bird that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":76.89,"endTime":80.88,"body":"hatches the egg of experience\""},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":76.89,"endTime":80.88,"body":"We'll provide the boredom you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":80.88,"endTime":85.23,"body":"provide the egg. I'm joined as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":80.88,"endTime":85.23,"body":"ever by non boring co host Emma"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":85.23,"endTime":86.34,"body":"Shackleton. Hi, Emma."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":86.4,"endTime":87.33,"body":"Hi, Simon."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.39,"endTime":89.04,"body":"Emma,  before we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.39,"endTime":89.04,"body":"go any further into the show"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":89.04,"endTime":91.08,"body":"today, I'd like to ask you a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":89.04,"endTime":91.08,"body":"quick question."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":91.11,"endTime":92.37,"body":"Come on, then."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":91.11,"endTime":92.37,"body":"Let's hear it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":92.67,"endTime":95.46,"body":"Is there"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":92.67,"endTime":95.46,"body":"something like a job or a task"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":95.46,"endTime":99.09,"body":"or a part of your life that you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":95.46,"endTime":99.09,"body":"have to do that you really"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":99.09,"endTime":100.23,"body":"dislike?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":100.65,"endTime":104.25,"body":"Okay, something"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":100.65,"endTime":104.25,"body":"I dislike, I guess driving in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":104.25,"endTime":108.0,"body":"rush hour traffic springs to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":104.25,"endTime":108.0,"body":"mind it really winds me up, how"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":108.0,"endTime":111.78,"body":"much time is wasted crawling"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":108.0,"endTime":111.78,"body":"through city centre traffic when"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":111.78,"endTime":115.86,"body":"I could be doing so many other"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":111.78,"endTime":115.86,"body":"more productive things. But I"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":115.86,"endTime":119.85,"body":"have to get from A to B. So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":115.86,"endTime":119.85,"body":"until we get the private jet."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":120.09,"endTime":124.11,"body":"That means sitting in traffic."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":120.09,"endTime":124.11,"body":"Why do you want to know? What's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":124.11,"endTime":125.28,"body":"the relevance this week?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":125.0,"endTime":127.37,"body":"I'm asking"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":125.0,"endTime":127.37,"body":"because in this week's episode,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":127.37,"endTime":130.61,"body":"we're exploring the difference"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":127.37,"endTime":130.61,"body":"between ODD which is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":130.64,"endTime":134.57,"body":"Oppositional Defiant Disorder"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":130.64,"endTime":134.57,"body":"and PDA which is Pathological"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":134.57,"endTime":138.8,"body":"Demand Avoidance syndrome. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":134.57,"endTime":138.8,"body":"while on the face of it, these"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":138.8,"endTime":143.57,"body":"two conditions can look similar,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":138.8,"endTime":143.57,"body":"refusal, not following requests"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":143.57,"endTime":146.93,"body":"or instructions, not doing work,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":143.57,"endTime":146.93,"body":"defiance, rejecting authority,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":146.93,"endTime":150.2,"body":"that kind of thing. They're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":146.93,"endTime":150.2,"body":"actually very different"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":150.2,"endTime":152.48,"body":"conditions. So we're going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":150.2,"endTime":152.48,"body":"dig into that."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":152.54,"endTime":155.9,"body":"Okay, sounds"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":152.54,"endTime":155.9,"body":"good. Because as we always say,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":155.93,"endTime":159.71,"body":"you do have to match the right"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":155.93,"endTime":159.71,"body":"strategy to the right need. Just"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":159.71,"endTime":163.46,"body":"before we jump into the episode,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":159.71,"endTime":163.46,"body":"though, how do you fancy paying"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":163.46,"endTime":167.45,"body":"it forward with a small good"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":163.46,"endTime":167.45,"body":"deed, we really do rely on word"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":167.45,"endTime":171.14,"body":"of mouth recommendations. So if"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":167.45,"endTime":171.14,"body":"you find the school behaviour"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":171.14,"endTime":175.28,"body":"secrets podcast interesting and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":171.14,"endTime":175.28,"body":"useful, and you know anybody"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":175.28,"endTime":179.36,"body":"else who might like it to do"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":175.28,"endTime":179.36,"body":"them a favour by opening your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":179.36,"endTime":182.12,"body":"podcast app and clicking the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":179.36,"endTime":182.12,"body":"Share button."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":182.36,"endTime":185.15,"body":"Now, without"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":182.36,"endTime":185.15,"body":"further ado, let's creep into"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":185.15,"endTime":189.2,"body":"the kitchen, pinch our noses"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":185.15,"endTime":189.2,"body":"tightly and open that pungent"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":189.2,"endTime":192.14,"body":"tin of smoked herring that we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":189.2,"endTime":192.14,"body":"call behaviour."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":192.21,"endTime":195.12,"body":"Okay, so let's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":192.21,"endTime":195.12,"body":"start by looking at the two"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":195.12,"endTime":199.26,"body":"conditions and how to recognise"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":195.12,"endTime":199.26,"body":"them in the classroom. And we'll"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":199.26,"endTime":205.74,"body":"start with O D, D. So ODD stands"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":199.26,"endTime":205.74,"body":"for Oppositional Defiant"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":205.77,"endTime":211.11,"body":"Disorder. oppositional means"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":205.77,"endTime":211.11,"body":"opposing, as in taking an"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":211.14,"endTime":215.37,"body":"opposing view, or being opposed"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":211.14,"endTime":215.37,"body":"to doing something you've been"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":215.4,"endTime":219.63,"body":"asked to do. So most commonly in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":215.4,"endTime":219.63,"body":"school, this would look like"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":219.72,"endTime":223.08,"body":"refusing to do your work or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":219.72,"endTime":223.08,"body":"follow the teachers"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":223.08,"endTime":227.67,"body":"instructions, or actually doing"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":223.08,"endTime":227.67,"body":"the exact opposite of what"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":227.67,"endTime":231.78,"body":"they've been asked to do. If you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":227.67,"endTime":231.78,"body":"ask them to write in pen, they'd"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":231.78,"endTime":235.86,"body":"get a pencil. If you ask them to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":231.78,"endTime":235.86,"body":"walk quietly down the hall,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":236.01,"endTime":238.83,"body":"they'd run and shout, that kind"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":236.01,"endTime":238.83,"body":"of thing."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":238.9,"endTime":242.2,"body":"Interestingly,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":238.9,"endTime":242.2,"body":"ODD is actually a form of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":242.23,"endTime":245.23,"body":"impulse control disorder. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":242.23,"endTime":245.23,"body":"what is impulse control"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":245.23,"endTime":249.04,"body":"disorder? So Viktor Frankl"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":245.23,"endTime":249.04,"body":"famously wrote there's a gap"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":249.07,"endTime":252.76,"body":"between stimulus and response."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":249.07,"endTime":252.76,"body":"So we have an idea, something"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":252.76,"endTime":256.9,"body":"happens to us. And then we have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":252.76,"endTime":256.9,"body":"an idea about how to react. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":256.9,"endTime":260.8,"body":"there's a gap where we evaluate"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":256.9,"endTime":260.8,"body":"whether that's a good idea or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":260.8,"endTime":264.7,"body":"not, and then we act and an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":260.8,"endTime":264.7,"body":"impulse control disorder means"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":264.7,"endTime":267.85,"body":"that that gap is either very"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":264.7,"endTime":267.85,"body":"short or hardly existent at all."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":267.85,"endTime":271.21,"body":"So we're doing very little"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":267.85,"endTime":271.21,"body":"assessment of an idea that we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":271.21,"endTime":274.0,"body":"might get before we carry it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":271.21,"endTime":274.0,"body":"out. So someone might take our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":274.0,"endTime":276.85,"body":"pencil and our immediate thought"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":274.0,"endTime":276.85,"body":"might be, I'm going to thump"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":276.85,"endTime":279.55,"body":"them. And then there's a gap"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":276.85,"endTime":279.55,"body":"where we might evaluate that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":279.55,"endTime":281.56,"body":"idea and think about whether"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":279.55,"endTime":281.56,"body":"it's going to get us into"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":281.56,"endTime":284.2,"body":"trouble and how it's going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":281.56,"endTime":284.2,"body":"affect our relationship with the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":284.2,"endTime":287.29,"body":"other child. Before we then act"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":284.2,"endTime":287.29,"body":"and we might then decide to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":287.29,"endTime":290.23,"body":"change our action or we might"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":287.29,"endTime":290.23,"body":"decide to carry on and thump"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":290.23,"endTime":293.26,"body":"them. But there is an assessment"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":290.23,"endTime":293.26,"body":"there that requires a little bit"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":293.26,"endTime":296.14,"body":"of time. And if you have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":293.26,"endTime":296.14,"body":"difficulty controlling your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":296.14,"endTime":299.68,"body":"impulses, that idea bubbles up"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":296.14,"endTime":299.68,"body":"into your head and before you've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":299.68,"endTime":303.76,"body":"assessed it in any great depth,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":299.68,"endTime":303.76,"body":"your body just sort of executes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":303.76,"endTime":306.61,"body":"that idea. And the thing to bear"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":303.76,"endTime":306.61,"body":"in mind when we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":306.61,"endTime":311.17,"body":"odd here is that no two children"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":306.61,"endTime":311.17,"body":"with odd are the same. And we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":311.17,"endTime":315.7,"body":"have to treat them as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":311.17,"endTime":315.7,"body":"individuals. But there are some"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":315.7,"endTime":318.79,"body":"common threads to their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":315.7,"endTime":318.79,"body":"behaviour. So let's dig down and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":318.79,"endTime":322.69,"body":"have a look at that. ODD tends"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":318.79,"endTime":322.69,"body":"not to be diagnosed until the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":322.69,"endTime":326.77,"body":"age of four and above, for very"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":322.69,"endTime":326.77,"body":"good reasons. Before that age,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":326.8,"endTime":330.97,"body":"it's quite normal for kids to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":326.8,"endTime":330.97,"body":"have tantrums and refusals when"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":330.97,"endTime":333.88,"body":"they're asked to do something."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":330.97,"endTime":333.88,"body":"Many children go through the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":333.88,"endTime":336.46,"body":"terrible twos, the age, when"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":333.88,"endTime":336.46,"body":"they start to get a little bit"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":336.46,"endTime":339.88,"body":"of independence, they're able to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":336.46,"endTime":339.88,"body":"move around safely, they can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":339.88,"endTime":343.66,"body":"communicate effectively. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":339.88,"endTime":343.66,"body":"they discover that they don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":343.72,"endTime":347.71,"body":"like adults putting limits on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":343.72,"endTime":347.71,"body":"their wants, or their actions,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":347.71,"endTime":349.96,"body":"they know what they want, they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":347.71,"endTime":349.96,"body":"want to go out and get it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":349.96,"endTime":353.17,"body":"without an adult standing in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":349.96,"endTime":353.17,"body":"their way. And that can result"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":353.17,"endTime":355.84,"body":"in tantrums and saying no, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":353.17,"endTime":355.84,"body":"stamping your feet and that kind"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":355.84,"endTime":359.59,"body":"of thing. Now, most kids will"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":355.84,"endTime":359.59,"body":"grow out of those tantrums by"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":359.59,"endTime":363.28,"body":"the age of four, or at least"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":359.59,"endTime":363.28,"body":"grow out of having them"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":363.28,"endTime":366.43,"body":"frequently, because they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":363.28,"endTime":366.43,"body":"starting to learn to regulate"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":366.43,"endTime":370.33,"body":"their emotions a little, they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":366.43,"endTime":370.33,"body":"starting to accept social"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":370.33,"endTime":372.7,"body":"expectations, and they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":370.33,"endTime":372.7,"body":"becoming a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":372.7,"endTime":375.97,"body":"reasonable. But if those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":372.7,"endTime":375.97,"body":"tantrums carry on for longer,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":376.0,"endTime":380.32,"body":"then it might be a sign that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":376.0,"endTime":380.32,"body":"something else is going on. It"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":380.32,"endTime":384.4,"body":"could be not necessarily is but"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":380.32,"endTime":384.4,"body":"it could be a sign that the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":384.4,"endTime":388.06,"body":"child's behaviour is being"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":384.4,"endTime":388.06,"body":"driven by something like"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":388.09,"endTime":390.01,"body":"Oppositional Defiant Disorder."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":390.0,"endTime":393.36,"body":"Interestingly,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":390.0,"endTime":393.36,"body":"as well, ODD can actually"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":393.36,"endTime":398.1,"body":"develop in teenagers as kids"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":393.36,"endTime":398.1,"body":"reach adolescence. So children"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":398.1,"endTime":401.94,"body":"who were quite easygoing and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":398.1,"endTime":401.94,"body":"reasonable that primary school"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":401.97,"endTime":406.35,"body":"can suddenly change their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":401.97,"endTime":406.35,"body":"behaviour. And again, this might"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":406.35,"endTime":411.69,"body":"be a sign of teenage onset ODD."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":406.35,"endTime":411.69,"body":"And just to be clear, here, this"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":411.69,"endTime":416.61,"body":"is going beyond the stereotype"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":411.69,"endTime":416.61,"body":"of an argumentative or grumpy"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":416.61,"endTime":421.02,"body":"teenager, we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":416.61,"endTime":421.02,"body":"significantly challenging"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":421.02,"endTime":425.22,"body":"behaviours at home and at"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":421.02,"endTime":425.22,"body":"school, that are predominantly"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":425.25,"endTime":429.93,"body":"oppositional in nature. The"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":425.25,"endTime":429.93,"body":"tricky thing is that odd often"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":429.93,"endTime":434.28,"body":"presents in children alongside"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":429.93,"endTime":434.28,"body":"other conditions. So you'll"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":434.28,"endTime":438.09,"body":"often see a child with the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":434.28,"endTime":438.09,"body":"diagnosis of Attention Deficit"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":438.09,"endTime":444.99,"body":"Hyperactivity Disorder, and ODD,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":438.09,"endTime":444.99,"body":"or they might have autism and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":444.99,"endTime":451.74,"body":"ODD. In fact, about four out of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":444.99,"endTime":451.74,"body":"ten students with ADHD, also end"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":451.74,"endTime":455.58,"body":"up with an ODD diagnosis. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":451.74,"endTime":455.58,"body":"that makes sense, really, if you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":455.58,"endTime":460.35,"body":"think about that idea that it's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":455.58,"endTime":460.35,"body":"an impulse control disorder,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":460.35,"endTime":465.24,"body":"because that's a strong factor"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":460.35,"endTime":465.24,"body":"of ADHD to obviously, ODD can"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":465.24,"endTime":469.38,"body":"only be diagnosed by a medical"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":465.24,"endTime":469.38,"body":"professional, not by a teacher,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":469.41,"endTime":472.83,"body":"or anybody who works in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":469.41,"endTime":472.83,"body":"education. But here are the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":472.83,"endTime":477.45,"body":"kinds of behaviours that you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":472.83,"endTime":477.45,"body":"might see that could be, could"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":477.48,"endTime":480.06,"body":"be related to ODD."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":480.12,"endTime":482.04,"body":"Yeah, we want to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":480.12,"endTime":482.04,"body":"stress the could be there, don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":482.04,"endTime":482.22,"body":"we?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":482.25,"endTime":482.67,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":482.72,"endTime":487.19,"body":"So number one,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":482.72,"endTime":487.19,"body":"kids with ODD are often touchy,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":487.22,"endTime":490.97,"body":"they get angry very, very"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":487.22,"endTime":490.97,"body":"quickly. In general, they have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":490.97,"endTime":494.72,"body":"kind of like this irritable mood"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":490.97,"endTime":494.72,"body":"pattern, they look resentful."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":495.08,"endTime":498.35,"body":"And this is true when they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":495.08,"endTime":498.35,"body":"interacting with adults in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":498.35,"endTime":501.02,"body":"class. And with other children"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":498.35,"endTime":501.02,"body":"in the class. They're the sort"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":501.02,"endTime":504.32,"body":"of kids that will overreact to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":501.02,"endTime":504.32,"body":"comments from other children or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":504.32,"endTime":507.86,"body":"adults, they can be resentful"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":504.32,"endTime":507.86,"body":"and speak really harshly"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":507.86,"endTime":510.95,"body":"sometimes to the other pupils."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":507.86,"endTime":510.95,"body":"Another behaviour you might see"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":510.95,"endTime":513.5,"body":"in the classroom, number two,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":510.95,"endTime":513.5,"body":"is, you know, obviously, given"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":513.5,"endTime":517.7,"body":"that this Oppositional Defiant"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":513.5,"endTime":517.7,"body":"Disorder, they are defiant and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":517.73,"endTime":522.17,"body":"argumentative, and we don't mean"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":517.73,"endTime":522.17,"body":"a little bit here. We mean a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":522.17,"endTime":526.82,"body":"lot. This is the sort of child"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":522.17,"endTime":526.82,"body":"who loves drawing you in for a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":526.82,"endTime":531.17,"body":"power battle, arguing about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":526.82,"endTime":531.17,"body":"every little thing. If you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":531.17,"endTime":535.76,"body":"teaching a child with ODD it can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":531.17,"endTime":535.76,"body":"feel like every day is a series"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":535.76,"endTime":540.08,"body":"of battles over quite minor"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":535.76,"endTime":540.08,"body":"things. Children with ODD can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":540.11,"endTime":544.01,"body":"argue endlessly, refuse to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":540.11,"endTime":544.01,"body":"follow school routines or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":544.01,"endTime":547.16,"body":"expectations, challenge the need"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":544.01,"endTime":547.16,"body":"for them to be there. They'll"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":547.22,"endTime":551.36,"body":"deliberately annoy the other"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":547.22,"endTime":551.36,"body":"kids, and then refuse to take"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":551.36,"endTime":555.05,"body":"responsibility for the actions"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":551.36,"endTime":555.05,"body":"that they have taken. They'll"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":555.05,"endTime":557.93,"body":"often blame the other children"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":555.05,"endTime":557.93,"body":"or they'll blame you or the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":557.93,"endTime":562.19,"body":"school or the environment that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":557.93,"endTime":562.19,"body":"they're in. It's all unfair. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":562.19,"endTime":565.61,"body":"behaviour number three, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":562.19,"endTime":565.61,"body":"child will often display a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":565.64,"endTime":570.44,"body":"vindictive quality, they'll hold"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":565.64,"endTime":570.44,"body":"on to grudges, and then plan"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":570.44,"endTime":574.64,"body":"their revenge in a calculated"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":570.44,"endTime":574.64,"body":"way, and then carry it out. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":574.64,"endTime":577.94,"body":"they're not reacting in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":574.64,"endTime":577.94,"body":"moment. They're thinking about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":577.94,"endTime":580.82,"body":"things that have happened to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":577.94,"endTime":580.82,"body":"them they consider unfair, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":580.82,"endTime":584.9,"body":"planning ahead and serving their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":580.82,"endTime":584.9,"body":"revenge cold. Now, we don't know"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":584.9,"endTime":589.34,"body":"what causes ODD and there have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":584.9,"endTime":589.34,"body":"been lots of suggestions but"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":589.37,"endTime":594.74,"body":"interestingly, it does not look"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":589.37,"endTime":594.74,"body":"like parenting is a factor but"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":594.74,"endTime":599.0,"body":"we do have a good sense of what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":594.74,"endTime":599.0,"body":"appears to drive a lot of that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":599.0,"endTime":603.23,"body":"behaviour and that have a sense"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":599.0,"endTime":603.23,"body":"of control. When a child with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":603.23,"endTime":606.98,"body":"ODD feels like they're in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":603.23,"endTime":606.98,"body":"control of their own decisions"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":606.98,"endTime":610.94,"body":"and actions, and they're working"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":606.98,"endTime":610.94,"body":"towards something that they feel"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":610.97,"endTime":615.95,"body":"is valuable or make sense to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":610.97,"endTime":615.95,"body":"them, and they have control over"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":615.95,"endTime":619.73,"body":"it, then you tend to see fewer"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":615.95,"endTime":619.73,"body":"behaviour issues."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":619.76,"endTime":621.62,"body":"it's really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":619.76,"endTime":621.62,"body":"quite tricky, isn't it? Simon,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":621.62,"endTime":625.4,"body":"because lots of those behaviours"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":621.62,"endTime":625.4,"body":"that you've described could also"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":625.4,"endTime":629.12,"body":"be for other reasons, like a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":625.4,"endTime":629.12,"body":"stress response or an anxiety or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":629.12,"endTime":632.18,"body":"something difficult that the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":629.12,"endTime":632.18,"body":"child is going through. So it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":632.18,"endTime":634.46,"body":"can be really difficult to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":632.18,"endTime":634.46,"body":"unpick can't it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":634.61,"endTime":637.34,"body":"Absolutely. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":634.61,"endTime":637.34,"body":"they have to be long standing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":637.34,"endTime":639.83,"body":"behaviours that you've seen, I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":637.34,"endTime":639.83,"body":"think it's for six months, at"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":639.83,"endTime":641.69,"body":"least, I think that's the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":639.83,"endTime":641.69,"body":"criteria that doctors use."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":641.72,"endTime":642.02,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":642.05,"endTime":643.46,"body":"So we're not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":642.05,"endTime":643.46,"body":"talking about a child going"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":643.46,"endTime":646.64,"body":"through a phase for a couple of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":643.46,"endTime":646.64,"body":"months. This is a long term"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":646.67,"endTime":647.21,"body":"condition."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":647.25,"endTime":650.73,"body":"Okay, so let's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":647.25,"endTime":650.73,"body":"compare that to pathological"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":650.73,"endTime":655.59,"body":"demand avoidance, or PDA,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":650.73,"endTime":655.59,"body":"sometimes called PDA syndrome."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":655.65,"endTime":661.23,"body":"PDA is a very specific form of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":655.65,"endTime":661.23,"body":"autism that presents a little"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":661.23,"endTime":666.84,"body":"differently to autism generally,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":661.23,"endTime":666.84,"body":"so it can be easily overlooked."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":666.87,"endTime":670.26,"body":"But one of the important things"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":666.87,"endTime":670.26,"body":"to remember is children with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":670.26,"endTime":674.67,"body":"PDA, often have all of the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":670.26,"endTime":674.67,"body":"related difficulties or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":674.67,"endTime":679.14,"body":"challenges related to autism,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":674.67,"endTime":679.14,"body":"but they're not necessarily as"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":679.17,"endTime":683.46,"body":"obvious in the classroom. So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":679.17,"endTime":683.46,"body":"there's a difference between"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":683.52,"endTime":687.78,"body":"demand avoidance and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":683.52,"endTime":687.78,"body":"pathological demand avoidance."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":687.78,"endTime":690.15,"body":"Yeah, demand"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":687.78,"endTime":690.15,"body":"avoidance is something we all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":690.15,"endTime":693.9,"body":"get us adults or kids. And it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":690.15,"endTime":693.9,"body":"essentially means not wanting to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":693.9,"endTime":697.2,"body":"do something that you've been"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":693.9,"endTime":697.2,"body":"asked to do. So someone's placed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":697.23,"endTime":700.8,"body":"a demand on you, then you don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":697.23,"endTime":700.8,"body":"like it, you're resistant to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":700.8,"endTime":703.11,"body":"that demand. There's actually a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":700.8,"endTime":703.11,"body":"term for in psychology called"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":703.11,"endTime":706.47,"body":"reactance. Demand avoidance from"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":703.11,"endTime":706.47,"body":"time to time in children is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":706.47,"endTime":709.35,"body":"quite common. Depending on the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":706.47,"endTime":709.35,"body":"task, or what we've asked them"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":709.35,"endTime":713.37,"body":"to do. We all have things that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":709.35,"endTime":713.37,"body":"we don't like doing. We don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":713.37,"endTime":716.13,"body":"like being made to do them. We"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":713.37,"endTime":716.13,"body":"don't like being told to do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":716.13,"endTime":719.22,"body":"things at certain times, and we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":716.13,"endTime":719.22,"body":"will put up a little resistance."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":719.31,"endTime":724.29,"body":"The key thing here is that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":719.31,"endTime":724.29,"body":"feeling does not have a negative"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":724.32,"endTime":728.28,"body":"impact on our bodies, or our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":724.32,"endTime":728.28,"body":"biology. And it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":728.28,"endTime":731.82,"body":"represent a sort of general"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":728.28,"endTime":731.82,"body":"response to people placing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":731.82,"endTime":735.33,"body":"demands on us or asking guests"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":731.82,"endTime":735.33,"body":"to do certain things. Now PDA is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":735.33,"endTime":739.8,"body":"different. The pathological in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":735.33,"endTime":739.8,"body":"pathological demand avoidance"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":739.8,"endTime":744.21,"body":"means abnormal, or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":739.8,"endTime":744.21,"body":"dysfunctional. If you have PDA,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":744.42,"endTime":749.13,"body":"and someone places a demand on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":744.42,"endTime":749.13,"body":"you, your body reacts with a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":749.13,"endTime":753.9,"body":"rush of stress chemicals that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":749.13,"endTime":753.9,"body":"fuel huge amounts of anxiety,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":754.23,"endTime":758.13,"body":"they put you in this heightened"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":754.23,"endTime":758.13,"body":"emotional state that feels like"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":758.13,"endTime":762.45,"body":"it's going to overwhelm you. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":758.13,"endTime":762.45,"body":"the more those demands feel"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":762.48,"endTime":766.98,"body":"outside of your control, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":762.48,"endTime":766.98,"body":"more anxious you become until"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":766.98,"endTime":770.49,"body":"you reach a point where you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":766.98,"endTime":770.49,"body":"can't cope with those feelings"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":770.55,"endTime":775.05,"body":"anymore. So unsurprisingly, one"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":770.55,"endTime":775.05,"body":"of the behaviours you'll see in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":775.05,"endTime":779.58,"body":"class is resistance to tasks."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":775.05,"endTime":779.58,"body":"Usually, this starts with what's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":779.58,"endTime":783.48,"body":"called social manipulation."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":779.58,"endTime":783.48,"body":"That's where the child bargains,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":783.6,"endTime":787.02,"body":"or they negotiate with you about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":783.6,"endTime":787.02,"body":"how the task will be done, or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":787.02,"endTime":790.05,"body":"whether it needs to be done. Or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":787.02,"endTime":790.05,"body":"maybe they engage in task"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":790.05,"endTime":792.75,"body":"avoidance. So instead of getting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":790.05,"endTime":792.75,"body":"on with a piece of work, they'll"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":792.75,"endTime":796.29,"body":"spend 20 minutes sharpening"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":792.75,"endTime":796.29,"body":"every pencil they can find in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":796.29,"endTime":799.65,"body":"the classroom or looking through"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":796.29,"endTime":799.65,"body":"their drawer for just the right"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":799.65,"endTime":803.97,"body":"ruler. They find every sort of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":799.65,"endTime":803.97,"body":"non violent means of avoiding"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":803.97,"endTime":807.27,"body":"that task to try and escape the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":803.97,"endTime":807.27,"body":"anxiety associated with it."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":807.33,"endTime":809.22,"body":"Another"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":807.33,"endTime":809.22,"body":"behaviour that you could easily"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":809.22,"endTime":813.78,"body":"miss is doing whole class input."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":809.22,"endTime":813.78,"body":"If the child feels like they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":813.78,"endTime":817.32,"body":"can't cope with the demands of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":813.78,"endTime":817.32,"body":"having to sit and listen to the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":817.32,"endTime":821.25,"body":"teacher, they might use a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":817.32,"endTime":821.25,"body":"strategy such as putting on a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":821.25,"endTime":824.61,"body":"face that looks like they're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":821.25,"endTime":824.61,"body":"listening, but their mind is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":824.64,"endTime":828.93,"body":"actually deliberately focused"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":824.64,"endTime":828.93,"body":"elsewhere. It's kind of like a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":828.93,"endTime":834.0,"body":"passive resistance. And then of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":828.93,"endTime":834.0,"body":"course, if you keep pressuring"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":834.0,"endTime":837.3,"body":"and pressuring the child, and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":834.0,"endTime":837.3,"body":"this social manipulation"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":837.3,"endTime":841.41,"body":"technique isn't effective for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":837.3,"endTime":841.41,"body":"them, their anxiety is going to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":841.41,"endTime":844.47,"body":"shoot up, and you're likely to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":841.41,"endTime":844.47,"body":"see the child become"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":844.5,"endTime":848.01,"body":"overwhelmed. And that's where"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":844.5,"endTime":848.01,"body":"you're going to get a meltdown"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":848.04,"endTime":852.3,"body":"or see the child engaging in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":848.04,"endTime":852.3,"body":"other escape behaviours, maybe"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":852.3,"endTime":855.6,"body":"walking out of the classroom or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":852.3,"endTime":855.6,"body":"refusing for example, because"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":855.6,"endTime":859.41,"body":"you're pushing them towards that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":855.6,"endTime":859.41,"body":"classic fight or flight"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":859.44,"endTime":863.82,"body":"response. That means while for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":859.44,"endTime":863.82,"body":"other children, setting firm"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":863.82,"endTime":867.24,"body":"expectations, and holding them"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":863.82,"endTime":867.24,"body":"to account can be really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":867.24,"endTime":870.99,"body":"effective and actually improve"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":867.24,"endTime":870.99,"body":"behaviour. For children with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":870.99,"endTime":875.55,"body":"PDA. The opposite is true."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":870.99,"endTime":875.55,"body":"Setting firm expectations and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":875.55,"endTime":879.42,"body":"holding them to account is going"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":875.55,"endTime":879.42,"body":"to be counterproductive. It's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":879.42,"endTime":883.02,"body":"like throwing more pressure into"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":879.42,"endTime":883.02,"body":"the pressure cooker. At some"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":883.02,"endTime":886.95,"body":"point, the walls won't hold any"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":883.02,"endTime":886.95,"body":"more, and the whole thing's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":886.95,"endTime":887.64,"body":"gonna blow."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":887.73,"endTime":891.0,"body":"One of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":887.73,"endTime":891.0,"body":"reasons why PDA can be confusing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":891.0,"endTime":895.08,"body":"or get missed in the classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":891.0,"endTime":895.08,"body":"is that if we ask a child with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":895.08,"endTime":899.67,"body":"PDA to do something that we know"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":895.08,"endTime":899.67,"body":"they already enjoy, say it's a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":899.67,"endTime":903.3,"body":"piece of artwork, if they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":899.67,"endTime":903.3,"body":"feeling anxious already, they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":903.3,"endTime":908.16,"body":"may refuse to participate. This"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":903.3,"endTime":908.16,"body":"is because engaging in the task,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":908.22,"endTime":912.66,"body":"even though it's something they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":908.22,"endTime":912.66,"body":"like, it wasn't their own"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":912.66,"endTime":915.75,"body":"choice, they were being"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":912.66,"endTime":915.75,"body":"instructed to do it. So this can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":915.75,"endTime":919.62,"body":"result in a behaviour pattern at"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":915.75,"endTime":919.62,"body":"a surface level. Anyway, that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":919.62,"endTime":923.76,"body":"looks inconsistent. Some days,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":919.62,"endTime":923.76,"body":"they might do the activity, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":923.85,"endTime":928.35,"body":"other days they won't. And what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":923.85,"endTime":928.35,"body":"I should say is, as we record"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":928.35,"endTime":933.9,"body":"this, PDA isn't a diagnosis by"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":928.35,"endTime":933.9,"body":"itself yet. So if you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":933.9,"endTime":937.74,"body":"teaching a child affected by"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":933.9,"endTime":937.74,"body":"PDA, you'll often see a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":937.74,"endTime":942.63,"body":"diagnosis of autism with a PDA"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":937.74,"endTime":942.63,"body":"profile or something similar."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":942.93,"endTime":947.46,"body":"It's usually diagnosed alongside"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":942.93,"endTime":947.46,"body":"a primary diagnosis of autism."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":947.46,"endTime":951.54,"body":"And in many places, PDA still"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":947.46,"endTime":951.54,"body":"isn't recognised or diagnosed at"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":951.54,"endTime":951.84,"body":"all."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":951.87,"endTime":954.75,"body":"PDA also"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":951.87,"endTime":954.75,"body":"reveals itself in lots of other"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":954.75,"endTime":958.2,"body":"ways in the classroom. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":954.75,"endTime":958.2,"body":"again, we'll always say every"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":958.2,"endTime":963.09,"body":"child is an individual, but many"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":958.2,"endTime":963.09,"body":"children with PDA also have"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":963.09,"endTime":967.02,"body":"difficulties with receptive"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":963.09,"endTime":967.02,"body":"language. And that can be masked"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":967.02,"endTime":970.38,"body":"by good expressive language,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":967.02,"endTime":970.38,"body":"meaning that they might be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":970.38,"endTime":973.62,"body":"articulate, and they might be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":970.38,"endTime":973.62,"body":"good at talking. But actually"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":973.62,"endTime":977.67,"body":"taking in an understanding and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":973.62,"endTime":977.67,"body":"processing language can be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":977.67,"endTime":981.42,"body":"tricky for them. In addition,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":977.67,"endTime":981.42,"body":"you'll also see children who"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":981.42,"endTime":986.16,"body":"simply don't understand the idea"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":981.42,"endTime":986.16,"body":"of social hierarchy. So it won't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":986.16,"endTime":990.0,"body":"make any difference to them who"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":986.16,"endTime":990.0,"body":"is making the request, it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":990.0,"endTime":994.23,"body":"doesn't matter whether it's the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":990.0,"endTime":994.23,"body":"TA or the lunchtime supervisor,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":994.23,"endTime":998.52,"body":"or their teacher, or their head"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":994.23,"endTime":998.52,"body":"or the king, it doesn't matter"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":998.52,"endTime":1001.28,"body":"because they don't see that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":998.52,"endTime":1001.28,"body":"social hierarchy. And they don't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1001.28,"endTime":1005.0,"body":"feel like they need to behave in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1001.28,"endTime":1005.0,"body":"a different way, depending on"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1005.0,"endTime":1006.2,"body":"the person in front of them."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1006.0,"endTime":1007.47,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1006.0,"endTime":1007.47,"body":"absolutely. They sort of see"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1007.47,"endTime":1009.87,"body":"themselves on a level with the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1007.47,"endTime":1009.87,"body":"adults don't they?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1009.9,"endTime":1010.44,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1010.5,"endTime":1012.84,"body":"They don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1010.5,"endTime":1012.84,"body":"recognise the expectations in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1012.84,"endTime":1017.49,"body":"school. And whilst they tend to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1012.84,"endTime":1017.49,"body":"be good socially, at a surface"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1017.49,"endTime":1019.8,"body":"level with the other children,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1017.49,"endTime":1019.8,"body":"you often find they get into"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1019.83,"endTime":1022.56,"body":"arguments with their friends,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1019.83,"endTime":1022.56,"body":"because when they're playing,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1022.56,"endTime":1026.07,"body":"they're often quite controlling"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1022.56,"endTime":1026.07,"body":"in their play or social"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1026.07,"endTime":1028.86,"body":"interactions. And as a result of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1026.07,"endTime":1028.86,"body":"this, you'll often find that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1028.86,"endTime":1033.27,"body":"drawn to more easygoing, sort of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1028.86,"endTime":1033.27,"body":"pliable reasonable children, or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1033.27,"endTime":1037.05,"body":"younger children, who they have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1033.27,"endTime":1037.05,"body":"sort of more natural authority"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1037.05,"endTime":1039.09,"body":"over and, and those younger"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1037.05,"endTime":1039.09,"body":"children sort of do whatever"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1039.09,"endTime":1041.94,"body":"they tell them to. And another"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1039.09,"endTime":1041.94,"body":"common behaviour you see with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1041.94,"endTime":1046.32,"body":"children, PDA, is something"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1041.94,"endTime":1046.32,"body":"called emotional lability. Now"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1046.32,"endTime":1050.19,"body":"this is really interesting. When"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1046.32,"endTime":1050.19,"body":"many children reach a heightened"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1050.19,"endTime":1053.25,"body":"state they get overwhelmed, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1050.19,"endTime":1053.25,"body":"might see a meltdown, it can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1053.25,"endTime":1056.85,"body":"take a very long time for them"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1053.25,"endTime":1056.85,"body":"to recover from that they sort"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1056.85,"endTime":1061.35,"body":"of get stuck in this heightened,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1056.85,"endTime":1061.35,"body":"highly stressed state, often for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1061.35,"endTime":1064.38,"body":"hours and hours and hours."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1061.35,"endTime":1064.38,"body":"emotional lability is the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1064.38,"endTime":1068.52,"body":"complete opposite to this, it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1064.38,"endTime":1068.52,"body":"like a pendulum swinging from"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1068.52,"endTime":1071.16,"body":"side to side, one minute,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1068.52,"endTime":1071.16,"body":"they're furious and angry or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1071.16,"endTime":1074.1,"body":"overwhelmed and incredibly"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1071.16,"endTime":1074.1,"body":"anxious. The next minute,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1074.19,"endTime":1078.33,"body":"they're calm and happy. The"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1074.19,"endTime":1078.33,"body":"pendulum swings from one side of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1078.33,"endTime":1082.02,"body":"the emotional scale to the next"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1078.33,"endTime":1082.02,"body":"very, very quickly, or very,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1082.08,"endTime":1083.4,"body":"very unexpectedly."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1083.0,"endTime":1086.96,"body":"So as you can"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1083.0,"endTime":1086.96,"body":"see, PDA is quite a complex"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1086.96,"endTime":1090.53,"body":"condition. And we've only had"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1086.96,"endTime":1090.53,"body":"time to look at some aspects of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1090.53,"endTime":1093.32,"body":"it in the classroom here. There"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1090.53,"endTime":1093.32,"body":"are lots of other classroom"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1093.32,"endTime":1097.25,"body":"behaviours and traits that might"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1093.32,"endTime":1097.25,"body":"reveal that PDA is affecting a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1097.25,"endTime":1100.94,"body":"child in your school. So you can"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1097.25,"endTime":1100.94,"body":"see that all those some of the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1100.94,"endTime":1104.96,"body":"behaviour for ODD and PDA might"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1100.94,"endTime":1104.96,"body":"actually look similar."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1105.29,"endTime":1109.4,"body":"Underneath the conditions are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1105.29,"endTime":1109.4,"body":"very different. ODD is a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1109.4,"endTime":1113.69,"body":"condition where pupils find it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1109.4,"endTime":1113.69,"body":"hard to manage their impulses"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1113.72,"endTime":1119.24,"body":"and is driven by that really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1113.72,"endTime":1119.24,"body":"strong need for control. Control"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1119.24,"endTime":1121.22,"body":"is the big pool factor here."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1121.28,"endTime":1122.93,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1121.28,"endTime":1122.93,"body":"absolutely. They're moving"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1122.93,"endTime":1127.64,"body":"towards control. Whereas PDA is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1122.93,"endTime":1127.64,"body":"a condition where they're moving"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1127.67,"endTime":1131.54,"body":"away from anxiety, anxiety is a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1127.67,"endTime":1131.54,"body":"massive factor, the children"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1131.54,"endTime":1134.57,"body":"aren't necessarily seeking"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1131.54,"endTime":1134.57,"body":"control, what they're trying to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1134.57,"endTime":1138.86,"body":"do is escape overwhelming"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1134.57,"endTime":1138.86,"body":"demands, which is a slightly"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1138.86,"endTime":1141.32,"body":"different thing. But it can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1138.86,"endTime":1141.32,"body":"result in very similar"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1141.0,"endTime":1144.78,"body":"But you can see"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1141.0,"endTime":1144.78,"body":"why picking the right strategy"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1141.32,"endTime":1141.98,"body":"behaviours."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1144.78,"endTime":1148.17,"body":"for the right need would be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1144.78,"endTime":1148.17,"body":"really important here. Because"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1148.17,"endTime":1152.61,"body":"in either case, a strategy that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1148.17,"endTime":1152.61,"body":"would work for ODD might"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1152.64,"endTime":1157.02,"body":"accidentally make the behaviour"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1152.64,"endTime":1157.02,"body":"of a child with PDA worse, and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1157.02,"endTime":1160.95,"body":"vice versa. So if you work with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1157.02,"endTime":1160.95,"body":"kids with challenging behaviour,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1160.98,"endTime":1164.76,"body":"and you're not sure why they're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1160.98,"endTime":1164.76,"body":"acting in that way, we've got a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1164.76,"endTime":1169.29,"body":"download that can help. It's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1164.76,"endTime":1169.29,"body":"called the SEND handbook. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1169.32,"endTime":1172.98,"body":"what that will do is help you to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1169.32,"endTime":1172.98,"body":"link behaviours that you see in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1172.98,"endTime":1178.41,"body":"your classroom with possible"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1172.98,"endTime":1178.41,"body":"causes such as autism, ADHD, and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1178.41,"endTime":1179.01,"body":"trauma."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1179.1,"endTime":1181.02,"body":"The idea here"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1179.1,"endTime":1181.02,"body":"isn't for teachers to make a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1181.02,"endTime":1184.47,"body":"diagnosis. We're not qualified"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1181.02,"endTime":1184.47,"body":"but if we can link classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1184.47,"endTime":1187.89,"body":"behaviours to possible causes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1184.47,"endTime":1187.89,"body":"quickly, it means we can get the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1187.89,"endTime":1191.22,"body":"right help and get early"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1187.89,"endTime":1191.22,"body":"intervention strategies in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1191.22,"endTime":1191.7,"body":"place."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1191.73,"endTime":1193.62,"body":"The SEND"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1191.73,"endTime":1193.62,"body":"handbook includes useful"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1193.62,"endTime":1197.94,"body":"information on ACE's that's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1193.62,"endTime":1197.94,"body":"adverse childhood experiences"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1197.97,"endTime":1201.54,"body":"and you get lots of fact sheets"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1197.97,"endTime":1201.54,"body":"about different behaviour needs"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1201.54,"endTime":1207.12,"body":"in the classroom. And yes, we've"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1201.54,"endTime":1207.12,"body":"also included strategies for ODD"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1207.15,"endTime":1211.83,"body":"and PDA. It's a free download,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1207.15,"endTime":1211.83,"body":"so head over to our website"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1212.28,"endTime":1216.99,"body":"www.beaconschoolsupport.co.uk."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1212.28,"endTime":1216.99,"body":"click on Free Resources near the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1217.02,"endTime":1220.47,"body":"top and look for the SEND"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1217.02,"endTime":1220.47,"body":"behaviour handbook. We'll also"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1220.47,"endTime":1224.01,"body":"put a link in the episode"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1220.47,"endTime":1224.01,"body":"description. And as we record"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1224.01,"endTime":1229.17,"body":"this, that handbook has been"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1224.01,"endTime":1229.17,"body":"downloaded over 20,000 times by"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1229.17,"endTime":1232.89,"body":"teachers, school leaders and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1229.17,"endTime":1232.89,"body":"parents just like you."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1232.0,"endTime":1233.53,"body":"If you found"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1232.0,"endTime":1233.53,"body":"today's episode enjoyable or you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1233.53,"endTime":1235.18,"body":"found it useful. Remember to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1233.53,"endTime":1235.18,"body":"open your podcast app and hit"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1235.18,"endTime":1236.56,"body":"the subscribe button. So you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1235.18,"endTime":1236.56,"body":"never miss another episode."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1236.56,"endTime":1238.3,"body":"Subscribing isn't anything"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1236.56,"endTime":1238.3,"body":"sinister. It just tells your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1238.3,"endTime":1245.41,"body":"podcast app to download and save"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1238.3,"endTime":1245.41,"body":"every episode as it's released."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1245.68,"endTime":1254.5,"body":"A bit like the series link on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1245.68,"endTime":1254.5,"body":"your TV box and subscribing is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1254.5,"endTime":1257.29,"body":"completely free. And to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1254.5,"endTime":1257.29,"body":"celebrate subscribing to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1257.29,"endTime":1261.16,"body":"podcast. Why not put grease"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1257.29,"endTime":1261.16,"body":"where there shouldn't be grease?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1261.19,"endTime":1262.72,"body":"What is that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1261.19,"endTime":1262.72,"body":"it?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1262.75,"endTime":1264.85,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1262.75,"endTime":1264.85,"body":"absolutely. Subscribers, go out"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1264.85,"endTime":1267.49,"body":"and have a lot of fun with that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1264.85,"endTime":1267.49,"body":"one. Get a little crazy."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1267.57,"endTime":1269.97,"body":"Okay, that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1267.57,"endTime":1269.97,"body":"might not be the safest idea,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1270.0,"endTime":1273.84,"body":"but you're all responsible"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1270.0,"endTime":1273.84,"body":"adults. I hope you found today's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1273.84,"endTime":1277.29,"body":"show valuable. And I'd like to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1273.84,"endTime":1277.29,"body":"finish by wishing you all an"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1277.32,"endTime":1280.23,"body":"excellent week, and we look"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1277.32,"endTime":1280.23,"body":"forward to seeing you on the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1280.23,"endTime":1283.92,"body":"next episode of school behaviour"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1280.23,"endTime":1283.92,"body":"secrets. Bye for now."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1284.16,"endTime":1284.67,"body":"Bye"}]}