{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.91,"body":"If you tell"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.91,"body":"somebody often enough that they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":2.91,"endTime":7.11,"body":"are naughty or that they are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":2.91,"endTime":7.11,"body":"silly, they quickly begin to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":7.11,"endTime":10.71,"body":"shape their behaviours to live"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":7.11,"endTime":10.71,"body":"up to that reputation. They"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":10.71,"endTime":14.61,"body":"actually internalise that and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":10.71,"endTime":14.61,"body":"when they're being told it often"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":14.61,"endTime":18.48,"body":"enough, they start to believe"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":14.61,"endTime":18.48,"body":"that they are the naughty one or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":18.48,"endTime":19.29,"body":"the silly one."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":19.36,"endTime":21.97,"body":"Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":19.36,"endTime":21.97,"body":"school behaviour secrets"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":21.97,"endTime":25.39,"body":"podcast. I'm your host, Simon"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":21.97,"endTime":25.39,"body":"Currigan. My co host is Emma"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":25.39,"endTime":29.02,"body":"Shackleton and we're obsessed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":25.39,"endTime":29.02,"body":"with helping teachers, school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":29.02,"endTime":31.93,"body":"leaders, parents, and of course,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":29.02,"endTime":31.93,"body":"students when classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":31.93,"endTime":34.84,"body":"behaviour gets in the way of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":31.93,"endTime":34.84,"body":"success. 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My name is Simon"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":58.9,"endTime":61.3,"body":"Currigan and welcome to this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":61.3,"endTime":64.78,"body":"week's episode of school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":61.3,"endTime":64.78,"body":"behaviour secrets. This show is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":64.78,"endTime":67.75,"body":"the educational podcasting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":64.78,"endTime":67.75,"body":"equivalent of a guinea pig."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":67.96,"endTime":71.62,"body":"We're small, we're fluffy, we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":67.96,"endTime":71.62,"body":"have way too much energy, but"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":71.62,"endTime":74.41,"body":"that's how we like it. We're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":71.62,"endTime":74.41,"body":"squeaking for Britain and having"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":74.41,"endTime":78.34,"body":"the time of our lives. I'm"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":74.41,"endTime":78.34,"body":"joined today by Emma Shackleton."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":78.37,"endTime":80.44,"body":"Emma, are you having the time of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":78.37,"endTime":80.44,"body":"your life?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":80.0,"endTime":83.06,"body":"Yes, I am. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":80.0,"endTime":83.06,"body":"I'm also very grateful for the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":83.06,"endTime":86.24,"body":"bleeping living the dream"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":86.27,"endTime":87.95,"body":"Living the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":86.27,"endTime":87.95,"body":"dream, before we get into the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.95,"endTime":90.98,"body":"meat and potatoes of this week's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.95,"endTime":90.98,"body":"episode, I'd like to ask you a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":90.98,"endTime":91.94,"body":"quick question."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":91.98,"endTime":94.29,"body":"Simon, there"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":91.98,"endTime":94.29,"body":"can't be a single area of my"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":94.29,"endTime":96.12,"body":"life that you don't know about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":94.29,"endTime":96.12,"body":"now."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":96.0,"endTime":98.55,"body":"I've got a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":96.0,"endTime":98.55,"body":"dossier. 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It's not how many people"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":113.94,"endTime":116.94,"body":"in Singapore supported it but"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":117.09,"endTime":120.03,"body":"how many people in the UK"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":117.09,"endTime":120.03,"body":"support this idea?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":120.09,"endTime":122.67,"body":"Oh, crikey."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":120.09,"endTime":122.67,"body":"It's a bit contentious, isn't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":122.67,"endTime":126.9,"body":"it? I mean, I get it. We all"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":122.67,"endTime":126.9,"body":"want to eat our meal in peace."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":126.9,"endTime":131.22,"body":"But most parents do as well. I'm"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":126.9,"endTime":131.22,"body":"sure. I don't think many people"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":131.22,"endTime":134.64,"body":"deliberately take their kids to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":131.22,"endTime":134.64,"body":"a restaurant to disturb others,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":134.7,"endTime":140.37,"body":"do they? So people in the UK who"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":134.7,"endTime":140.37,"body":"think this is a good idea? Well,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":140.52,"endTime":145.86,"body":"I guess it depends on who was"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":140.52,"endTime":145.86,"body":"surveyed, but maybe 20% I don't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":145.86,"endTime":147.45,"body":"know. What's the actual figure?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":147.51,"endTime":151.44,"body":"Okay, so this is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":147.51,"endTime":151.44,"body":"a shocker, you are low. 27% of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":151.44,"endTime":156.09,"body":"UK citizens polled said they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":151.44,"endTime":156.09,"body":"agreed with the policy 25%"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":156.12,"endTime":159.42,"body":"disagreed it really split the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":156.12,"endTime":159.42,"body":"nation. And interestingly way"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":159.42,"endTime":163.53,"body":"more men supported this than"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":159.42,"endTime":163.53,"body":"women and it was most popular"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":163.56,"endTime":166.11,"body":"with over 65's. Make of that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":163.56,"endTime":166.11,"body":"what you will."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":166.17,"endTime":169.83,"body":"Hang on 25% and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":166.17,"endTime":169.83,"body":"27%. Where's everybody else?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":170.4,"endTime":170.97,"body":"in the middle."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":171.18,"endTime":171.84,"body":"Oh, okay."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":172.02,"endTime":173.13,"body":"They didn't know"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":172.02,"endTime":173.13,"body":"or didn't care."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":173.19,"endTime":176.46,"body":"Anyway, moving"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":173.19,"endTime":176.46,"body":"on. Why is this relevant to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":176.46,"endTime":177.33,"body":"today's show?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":177.39,"endTime":179.4,"body":"Right. Well,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":177.39,"endTime":179.4,"body":"today's episode is all about the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":179.4,"endTime":183.54,"body":"word choices we make as adults"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":179.4,"endTime":183.54,"body":"who work with children, and how"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":183.54,"endTime":186.6,"body":"those words really, really"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":183.54,"endTime":186.6,"body":"matter, and how we should be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":186.6,"endTime":190.53,"body":"thinking about what impact our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":186.6,"endTime":190.53,"body":"words are going to have on kids,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":190.8,"endTime":193.59,"body":"and how there might be knock on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":190.8,"endTime":193.59,"body":"effects, those vocabulary"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":193.59,"endTime":195.6,"body":"choices that we haven't even"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":193.59,"endTime":195.6,"body":"considered"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":195.66,"endTime":199.65,"body":"I get it and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":195.66,"endTime":199.65,"body":"screaming here is a word that is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":199.65,"endTime":204.21,"body":"very polarising. It creates an"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":199.65,"endTime":204.21,"body":"emotional reaction in people."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":204.39,"endTime":206.37,"body":"Yeah, and in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":204.39,"endTime":206.37,"body":"this case, it's deliberate. But"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":206.52,"endTime":210.06,"body":"really, we're going to focus on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":206.52,"endTime":210.06,"body":"how unintentional word choices"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":210.09,"endTime":211.71,"body":"lead to unexpected outcomes."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":211.86,"endTime":214.86,"body":"I see. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":211.86,"endTime":214.86,"body":"just before we jump into this"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":214.86,"endTime":219.3,"body":"episode, how would you the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":214.86,"endTime":219.3,"body":"listener fancy paying it forward"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":219.3,"endTime":223.86,"body":"with a small good deed? We rely"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":219.3,"endTime":223.86,"body":"pretty much on word of mouth"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":223.86,"endTime":227.07,"body":"recommendations. So if you're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":223.86,"endTime":227.07,"body":"finding the school behaviour"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":227.07,"endTime":230.76,"body":"secrets podcast interesting and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":227.07,"endTime":230.76,"body":"useful, and you know someone"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":230.76,"endTime":234.51,"body":"else who might like it to do"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":230.76,"endTime":234.51,"body":"them a favour by opening your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":234.51,"endTime":237.84,"body":"podcast app and clicking the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":234.51,"endTime":237.84,"body":"Share button. Thank you."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":237.87,"endTime":240.84,"body":"So without"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":237.87,"endTime":240.84,"body":"further delay, let's close the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":240.84,"endTime":244.59,"body":"door of our hotel bedroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":240.84,"endTime":244.59,"body":"excitedly. Turn on the Corby"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":244.59,"endTime":248.31,"body":"trouser press and steam out the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":244.59,"endTime":248.31,"body":"creases of those tired old work"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":248.31,"endTime":250.05,"body":"slacks we call behaviour."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":250.14,"endTime":252.6,"body":"So let's kick"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":250.14,"endTime":252.6,"body":"off with the importance of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":252.6,"endTime":257.28,"body":"separating children from their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":252.6,"endTime":257.28,"body":"behaviour choices. We all know"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":257.28,"endTime":261.06,"body":"by now, I'm sure the extremely"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":257.28,"endTime":261.06,"body":"damaging effects of telling"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":261.06,"endTime":266.76,"body":"children that they are bad or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":261.06,"endTime":266.76,"body":"naughty, for example, it's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":266.76,"endTime":270.21,"body":"really important that we"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":266.76,"endTime":270.21,"body":"separate the behaviours that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":270.21,"endTime":275.46,"body":"they are demonstrating from them"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":270.21,"endTime":275.46,"body":"as a person and there's a real"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":275.46,"endTime":279.9,"body":"danger of children living up to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":275.46,"endTime":279.9,"body":"a label that's been reinforced"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":279.9,"endTime":285.06,"body":"by adults. So it's crucial that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":279.9,"endTime":285.06,"body":"we split apart what the child"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":285.06,"endTime":289.38,"body":"has done from who they are. Have"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":285.06,"endTime":289.38,"body":"you ever noticed that some"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":289.38,"endTime":293.04,"body":"children become like the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":289.38,"endTime":293.04,"body":"scapegoat in their classroom?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":293.31,"endTime":296.94,"body":"You know what I mean by that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":293.31,"endTime":296.94,"body":"every time anything goes wrong"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":296.97,"endTime":301.47,"body":"or anything bad happens. The"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":296.97,"endTime":301.47,"body":"first name on everyone's lips is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":301.47,"endTime":305.31,"body":"that one child. I've actually"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":301.47,"endTime":305.31,"body":"even known this to happen when"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":305.31,"endTime":309.75,"body":"the boy who happened to be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":305.31,"endTime":309.75,"body":"called Connor was away. 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And when the teacher"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":326.55,"endTime":330.24,"body":"talked to the class about it,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":330.27,"endTime":334.77,"body":"lots of the children were"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":330.27,"endTime":334.77,"body":"absolutely certain that it must"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":334.77,"endTime":339.18,"body":"have been Connor who done it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":334.77,"endTime":339.18,"body":"until the teacher pointed out"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":339.27,"endTime":343.83,"body":"that actually, Connor wasn't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":339.27,"endTime":343.83,"body":"even in school that day, he was"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":343.83,"endTime":347.97,"body":"away poorly. Now, I see this"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":343.83,"endTime":347.97,"body":"quite often in classrooms where"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":347.97,"endTime":352.41,"body":"a particular child's name is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":347.97,"endTime":352.41,"body":"maybe overused by the adults,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":352.44,"endTime":356.01,"body":"you know, when they keep on"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":352.44,"endTime":356.01,"body":"saying that child's name over"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":356.01,"endTime":359.91,"body":"and over again, everybody else"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":356.01,"endTime":359.91,"body":"in the class, keep on hearing"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":359.91,"endTime":363.84,"body":"that child's name, maybe in a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":359.91,"endTime":363.84,"body":"negative context. And so they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":363.84,"endTime":367.35,"body":"begin to associate all the bad"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":363.84,"endTime":367.35,"body":"things that happen in the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":367.35,"endTime":370.11,"body":"classroom with that child."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":367.35,"endTime":370.11,"body":"That's certainly what had"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":370.11,"endTime":374.04,"body":"happened in Connors case. The"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":370.11,"endTime":374.04,"body":"additional danger then is that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":374.04,"endTime":378.48,"body":"this reinforces how other"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":374.04,"endTime":378.48,"body":"children see the child. 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If"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":386.73,"endTime":390.75,"body":"you tell somebody often enough"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":386.73,"endTime":390.75,"body":"that they are naughty, or that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":390.75,"endTime":395.16,"body":"they are silly, they quickly"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":390.75,"endTime":395.16,"body":"begin to shape their behaviours"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":395.22,"endTime":399.39,"body":"to live up to that reputation,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":395.22,"endTime":399.39,"body":"they actually internalise that,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":399.39,"endTime":402.54,"body":"and when they're being told it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":399.39,"endTime":402.54,"body":"often enough, they start to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":402.54,"endTime":405.75,"body":"believe that they are the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":402.54,"endTime":405.75,"body":"naughty one or the silly one."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":405.84,"endTime":408.24,"body":"Do you know this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":405.84,"endTime":408.24,"body":"reminds me actually of a story"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":408.27,"endTime":410.7,"body":"in the book Thinking Fast"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":408.27,"endTime":410.7,"body":"Thinking Slow by Daniel"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":410.7,"endTime":413.67,"body":"Kahneman. And he looks at"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":410.7,"endTime":413.67,"body":"cognitive biases that we have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":413.73,"endTime":416.76,"body":"and how when we given a piece of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":413.73,"endTime":416.76,"body":"information, so the children in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":416.76,"endTime":419.91,"body":"that classroom are given the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":416.76,"endTime":419.91,"body":"information. Connor is a naughty"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":419.91,"endTime":422.16,"body":"boy when they're thinking about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":419.91,"endTime":422.16,"body":"whether that's true or false or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":422.16,"endTime":426.84,"body":"not. Actually, it's how easy"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":422.16,"endTime":426.84,"body":"that information is to recall."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":426.87,"endTime":429.72,"body":"That's a link to how true you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":426.87,"endTime":429.72,"body":"feel it is rather than there"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":429.72,"endTime":432.48,"body":"being sort of any natural"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":429.72,"endTime":432.48,"body":"veracity behind it if you've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":432.48,"endTime":435.9,"body":"heard Connor is naughty Connor"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":432.48,"endTime":435.9,"body":"is naughty Connor is naughty"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":435.9,"endTime":438.87,"body":"Connor is naughty, over and over"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":435.9,"endTime":438.87,"body":"and over. And when you think"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":438.87,"endTime":442.29,"body":"about Connor, that fact just"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":438.87,"endTime":442.29,"body":"pops into your mind, then you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":442.29,"endTime":445.95,"body":"will feel it's true, even if the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":442.29,"endTime":445.95,"body":"evidence is to the contrary. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":445.95,"endTime":448.35,"body":"that repetition is actually"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":445.95,"endTime":448.35,"body":"really dangerous."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":448.38,"endTime":450.63,"body":"So it's just"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":448.38,"endTime":450.63,"body":"because of the ease of recall,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":450.63,"endTime":453.63,"body":"because it's springs to your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":450.63,"endTime":453.63,"body":"mind quickly, then you believe"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":453.63,"endTime":456.33,"body":"that it must be true because it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":453.63,"endTime":456.33,"body":"came straight away without any"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":456.33,"endTime":457.47,"body":"effort or any barrier."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":457.5,"endTime":459.36,"body":"I think that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":457.5,"endTime":459.36,"body":"the basis on which a lot of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":459.36,"endTime":462.48,"body":"advertising works. That"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":459.36,"endTime":462.48,"body":"repetition. If you keep hearing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":462.48,"endTime":464.94,"body":"the same message over and over"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":462.48,"endTime":464.94,"body":"on the telly, you know, think in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":464.94,"endTime":468.03,"body":"the 20s, Guinness had a slogan"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":464.94,"endTime":468.03,"body":"that Guinness is good for you. I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":468.03,"endTime":470.58,"body":"think if you heard that over and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":468.03,"endTime":470.58,"body":"over and over again, this might"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":470.58,"endTime":473.91,"body":"be many things. It can offer you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":470.58,"endTime":473.91,"body":"many, many qualities on a night"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":473.91,"endTime":476.52,"body":"out. But perhaps suggesting that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":473.91,"endTime":476.52,"body":"it's good for you might not be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":477.21,"endTime":479.85,"body":"today might hold up. But that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":477.21,"endTime":479.85,"body":"repetition that hitting the same"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":479.85,"endTime":482.97,"body":"nail over and over and over that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":479.85,"endTime":482.97,"body":"ease of recall, makes it feel"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":482.97,"endTime":484.98,"body":"true even when it's not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":482.97,"endTime":484.98,"body":"necessarily true."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":485.19,"endTime":487.71,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":485.19,"endTime":487.71,"body":"interesting, isn't it. And this"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":487.71,"endTime":491.19,"body":"is an especially important"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":487.71,"endTime":491.19,"body":"concept for us to consider when"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":491.19,"endTime":493.89,"body":"we're working with children that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":491.19,"endTime":493.89,"body":"might have been affected by"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":493.89,"endTime":497.7,"body":"trauma. So they might have"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":493.89,"endTime":497.7,"body":"already picked up a very"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":497.7,"endTime":501.66,"body":"wounding early message, that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":497.7,"endTime":501.66,"body":"they are bad that they are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":501.69,"endTime":505.98,"body":"unwanted or that they are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":501.69,"endTime":505.98,"body":"unlovable. So for example, say"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":505.98,"endTime":509.31,"body":"you're correcting a mistake,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":505.98,"endTime":509.31,"body":"most children would be fine if"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":509.31,"endTime":512.34,"body":"you ask them to go back, take"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":509.31,"endTime":512.34,"body":"their book back to their table"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":512.34,"endTime":516.18,"body":"and make a correction or edit"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":512.34,"endTime":516.18,"body":"their work, for example. But for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":516.18,"endTime":520.26,"body":"children with trauma, any"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":516.18,"endTime":520.26,"body":"criticism of their work, or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":520.26,"endTime":524.58,"body":"being sent back to improve"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":520.26,"endTime":524.58,"body":"something will be seen as more"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":524.58,"endTime":529.59,"body":"evidence that they must be a bad"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":524.58,"endTime":529.59,"body":"person, and maybe strongly"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":529.59,"endTime":532.95,"body":"resisted by those children. So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":529.59,"endTime":532.95,"body":"you're going to get a big"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":532.95,"endTime":536.64,"body":"emotional reaction to what you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":532.95,"endTime":536.64,"body":"perceive to be a small thing,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":536.67,"endTime":538.86,"body":"but to them was actually a big"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":536.67,"endTime":538.86,"body":"deal."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":538.0,"endTime":540.469,"body":"Yeah, we have to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":538.0,"endTime":540.469,"body":"be so careful about the word"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":538.0,"endTime":557.56,"body":"I really love that I've used"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":538.0,"endTime":557.56,"body":"that a lot with children. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":540.524,"endTime":543.653,"body":"choices you make, especially"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":540.524,"endTime":543.653,"body":"when we're working with kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":543.708,"endTime":546.782,"body":"with trauma because we can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":543.708,"endTime":546.782,"body":"unintentionally trigger those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":546.836,"endTime":549.965,"body":"really strong emotions. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":546.836,"endTime":549.965,"body":"also, it's really interesting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":550.02,"endTime":553.313,"body":"about the messages that we give"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":550.02,"endTime":553.313,"body":"children about these labels,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":553.368,"endTime":556.606,"body":"especially when we're thinking"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":553.368,"endTime":556.606,"body":"about gender stereotypes and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":556.661,"endTime":559.57,"body":"cultural stereotypes. It can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":556.661,"endTime":559.57,"body":"become a self fulfilling"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":557.98,"endTime":613.99,"body":"you can see that growth mindset."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":557.98,"endTime":613.99,"body":"It's taught in a lot of schools"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":559.625,"endTime":563.083,"body":"prophecy, it can change the way"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":559.625,"endTime":563.083,"body":"the child views themselves as a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":563.138,"endTime":566.541,"body":"learner. And there's been some"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":563.138,"endTime":566.541,"body":"really interesting studies done"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":566.596,"endTime":570.054,"body":"based on this. So if you take a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":566.596,"endTime":570.054,"body":"group of girls, and you talk to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":570.109,"endTime":573.237,"body":"them about how women aren't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":570.109,"endTime":573.237,"body":"typically expected to do very"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":573.292,"endTime":576.64,"body":"well with maths and they don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":573.292,"endTime":576.64,"body":"go on to become engineers, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":576.695,"endTime":579.988,"body":"really, they're more suited for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":576.695,"endTime":579.988,"body":"caring professions, and they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":580.043,"endTime":583.446,"body":"tend to do better with written"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":580.043,"endTime":583.446,"body":"things and tend to be better at"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":583.501,"endTime":586.74,"body":"reading but not working with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":583.501,"endTime":586.74,"body":"numbers, and then you put them"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":586.795,"endTime":589.978,"body":"into a test. What they will tend"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":586.795,"endTime":589.978,"body":"to do is because you have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":590.033,"endTime":592.942,"body":"reminded them of that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":590.033,"endTime":592.942,"body":"stereotype, they will then tend"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":592.997,"endTime":596.125,"body":"to underperform on the test."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":592.997,"endTime":596.125,"body":"Whereas if you take the same"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":596.18,"endTime":599.474,"body":"group of girls and you talk to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":596.18,"endTime":599.474,"body":"them about how well women are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":599.528,"endTime":602.602,"body":"doing with maths in The modern"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":599.528,"endTime":602.602,"body":"world, that the number of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":602.657,"endTime":605.566,"body":"engineers and computer"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":602.657,"endTime":605.566,"body":"programmers is on the rise and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":605.621,"endTime":608.969,"body":"how the world really needs women"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":605.621,"endTime":608.969,"body":"who are fluent and confident"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":609.024,"endTime":612.372,"body":"with number, give them exactly"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":609.024,"endTime":612.372,"body":"the same test, then you'll see"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":612.427,"endTime":615.611,"body":"those scores improve. And those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":612.427,"endTime":615.611,"body":"kinds of studies have been"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":614.44,"endTime":669.85,"body":"now. And you can really see how"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":614.44,"endTime":669.85,"body":"children do respond to that. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":615.665,"endTime":618.684,"body":"carried out on all sorts of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":615.665,"endTime":618.684,"body":"racial stereotypes, gender,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":618.739,"endTime":621.868,"body":"stereotypes, and more. So we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":618.739,"endTime":621.868,"body":"really need to be careful of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":621.923,"endTime":625.161,"body":"what kind of stereotypes are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":621.923,"endTime":625.161,"body":"reinforcing another example of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":625.216,"endTime":628.454,"body":"using language carefully, which"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":625.216,"endTime":628.454,"body":"I really like is from Carol"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":628.509,"endTime":631.747,"body":"Dweck. And we're gonna mention"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":628.509,"endTime":631.747,"body":"Carol Dweck as well later in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":631.802,"endTime":635.26,"body":"this episode, but it's the power"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":631.802,"endTime":635.26,"body":"of the word yet, if we have to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":635.315,"endTime":638.718,"body":"say to a child, you know, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":635.315,"endTime":638.718,"body":"haven't got the work, right. You"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":638.773,"endTime":641.737,"body":"know, if we've got a child,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":638.773,"endTime":641.737,"body":"they're sitting there with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":641.792,"endTime":645.14,"body":"trauma, and they're seeing that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":641.792,"endTime":645.14,"body":"correction, that constructive"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":645.195,"endTime":648.488,"body":"criticism, as you know, yet more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":645.195,"endTime":648.488,"body":"evidence that they're a bad"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":648.543,"endTime":652.001,"body":"person who doesn't deserve love,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":648.543,"endTime":652.001,"body":"they're going to get this huge"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":652.056,"endTime":655.349,"body":"emotional reaction to that. Or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":652.056,"endTime":655.349,"body":"even if you're working with a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":655.404,"endTime":658.642,"body":"child who's just sensitive to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":655.404,"endTime":658.642,"body":"criticism, which has low self"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":658.697,"endTime":662.1,"body":"esteem, and finds it difficult"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":658.697,"endTime":662.1,"body":"to accept that kind of negative"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":662.155,"endTime":665.448,"body":"input, then putting the word yet"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":662.155,"endTime":665.448,"body":"on the end, can be a really"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":665.503,"endTime":668.906,"body":"powerful pivot. So who might say"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":665.503,"endTime":668.906,"body":"you haven't got this problem,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":668.961,"endTime":672.145,"body":"right. That's the negative. If"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":668.961,"endTime":672.145,"body":"we say you haven't got that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":669.85,"endTime":737.17,"body":"don't get me wrong. In this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":669.85,"endTime":737.17,"body":"episode, we're not talking about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":672.2,"endTime":675.658,"body":"problem, right, Yet, what we are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":672.2,"endTime":675.658,"body":"doing is leaving the door open"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":675.712,"endTime":679.17,"body":"to development and improvement"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":675.712,"endTime":679.17,"body":"in the future, we might say, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":679.225,"endTime":682.409,"body":"kick that ball really hard, but"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":679.225,"endTime":682.409,"body":"you missed the goal. 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And it can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":715.835,"endTime":719.183,"body":"send different messages about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":719.238,"endTime":722.696,"body":"what we as the adult expect from"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":719.238,"endTime":722.696,"body":"the child or believe the child"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":722.751,"endTime":723.52,"body":"is capable of."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":737.17,"endTime":741.07,"body":"tiptoeing around or walking on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":737.17,"endTime":741.07,"body":"eggshells around children or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":741.07,"endTime":744.76,"body":"never delivering hard messages."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":741.07,"endTime":744.76,"body":"Because we do need to do that as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":744.76,"endTime":748.63,"body":"educators, what we're talking"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":744.76,"endTime":748.63,"body":"about is being emotionally"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":748.63,"endTime":752.17,"body":"intelligent about the way that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":748.63,"endTime":752.17,"body":"we do that, and taking into"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":752.17,"endTime":757.09,"body":"account the person who's hearing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":752.17,"endTime":757.09,"body":"that feedback, and how that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":757.09,"endTime":762.07,"body":"might affect them. And that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":757.09,"endTime":762.07,"body":"makes us clever and strategic,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":762.1,"endTime":765.85,"body":"it benefits the child. But it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":762.1,"endTime":765.85,"body":"also benefits us because of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":765.85,"endTime":770.02,"body":"course, if we can avoid"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":765.85,"endTime":770.02,"body":"triggering a big negative"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":770.02,"endTime":773.32,"body":"emotional reaction in a child,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":770.02,"endTime":773.32,"body":"why would we not want to do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":773.32,"endTime":778.6,"body":"that. So it's about being very"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":773.32,"endTime":778.6,"body":"considerate about the words that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":778.6,"endTime":782.65,"body":"we use, and the way that we say"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":778.6,"endTime":782.65,"body":"those words, so that the child"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":782.65,"endTime":785.74,"body":"always feels like even when"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":782.65,"endTime":785.74,"body":"we're delivering a harsh"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":785.74,"endTime":789.82,"body":"message, we are on their side."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":785.74,"endTime":789.82,"body":"And we're coming from a place of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":789.82,"endTime":794.29,"body":"love and care and support."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":789.82,"endTime":794.29,"body":"Rather than just being mean or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":794.29,"endTime":796.78,"body":"nasty, or being a baddie towards"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":794.29,"endTime":796.78,"body":"them."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":796.81,"endTime":799.24,"body":"You can only do that if you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":796.81,"endTime":799.24,"body":"being intentional about what you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":799.24,"endTime":800.5,"body":"do and the choices you make."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":801.02,"endTime":804.35,"body":"Absolutely,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":801.02,"endTime":804.35,"body":"absolutely. So criticism or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":804.35,"endTime":808.61,"body":"negative feedback of any kind"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":804.35,"endTime":808.61,"body":"really needs to be balanced with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":808.61,"endTime":812.9,"body":"praise and recognition."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":808.61,"endTime":812.9,"body":"Otherwise, it can feel like for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":812.9,"endTime":816.98,"body":"the child, that they are not"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":812.9,"endTime":816.98,"body":"capable, or that their efforts"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":817.01,"endTime":820.4,"body":"or they themselves are not good"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":817.01,"endTime":820.4,"body":"enough. And of course, that's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":820.4,"endTime":823.13,"body":"going to diminish their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":820.4,"endTime":823.13,"body":"confidence. And that will"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":823.13,"endTime":828.41,"body":"decrease their motivation to try"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":823.13,"endTime":828.41,"body":"hard things or to do their best."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":828.59,"endTime":832.67,"body":"So we've talked about this many"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":828.59,"endTime":832.67,"body":"times, humans will inherently"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":832.67,"endTime":837.83,"body":"try to avoid hard stuff, we like"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":832.67,"endTime":837.83,"body":"to do things that are easy. We"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":837.83,"endTime":841.1,"body":"like to do things that are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":837.83,"endTime":841.1,"body":"familiar, we like to do things"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":841.1,"endTime":845.36,"body":"that are safe, because it takes"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":841.1,"endTime":845.36,"body":"a lot more energy and efforts"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":845.39,"endTime":850.43,"body":"and brain power and courage to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":845.39,"endTime":850.43,"body":"do hard stuff. But doing hard"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":850.43,"endTime":854.09,"body":"stuff is the way that we grow."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":850.43,"endTime":854.09,"body":"So if we want children to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":854.09,"endTime":858.11,"body":"attempt difficult things, we've"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":854.09,"endTime":858.11,"body":"got to be supportive. So we've"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":858.11,"endTime":862.01,"body":"got to give that feedback but in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":858.11,"endTime":862.01,"body":"a constructive and emotionally"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":862.01,"endTime":864.83,"body":"intelligent way, rather than"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":862.01,"endTime":864.83,"body":"chipping away at their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":864.83,"endTime":868.13,"body":"confidence, and making them feel"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":864.83,"endTime":868.13,"body":"like giving up. It's all about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":868.13,"endTime":872.06,"body":"building the child's resilience"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":868.13,"endTime":872.06,"body":"rather than breaking them down"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":872.06,"endTime":875.27,"body":"and making them feel like they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":872.06,"endTime":875.27,"body":"can't do it or they don't even"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":875.27,"endTime":878.54,"body":"want to attempt it. We've also"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":875.27,"endTime":878.54,"body":"got to be quite careful with the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":878.54,"endTime":882.59,"body":"balance of praise. And we've got"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":878.54,"endTime":882.59,"body":"to make sure that we are genuine"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":882.62,"endTime":886.7,"body":"with our praise. So what we"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":882.62,"endTime":886.7,"body":"mustn't do is fall into the trap"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":886.73,"endTime":891.62,"body":"of making a huge big fanfare for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":886.73,"endTime":891.62,"body":"every little thing that they do."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":891.98,"endTime":894.65,"body":"Because one thing is the adults"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":891.98,"endTime":894.65,"body":"not going to keep that up."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":894.65,"endTime":897.26,"body":"They're going to be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":894.65,"endTime":897.26,"body":"inconsistent, but the other is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":897.26,"endTime":902.9,"body":"kids can sniff out false praise"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":897.26,"endTime":902.9,"body":"a mile off. And all that does is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":902.9,"endTime":906.38,"body":"tell them that the adult isn't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":902.9,"endTime":906.38,"body":"genuine and that they're not to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":906.38,"endTime":911.09,"body":"be trusted, we need to get into"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":906.38,"endTime":911.09,"body":"a habit of just routinely"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":911.12,"endTime":915.98,"body":"noticing the good stuff, and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":911.12,"endTime":915.98,"body":"commenting on good stuff. So for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":915.98,"endTime":919.73,"body":"example, dropping out little"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":915.98,"endTime":919.73,"body":"comments, like, I like the way"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":919.73,"endTime":923.21,"body":"that you did that. Or I noticed"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":919.73,"endTime":923.21,"body":"that you were really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":923.21,"endTime":927.05,"body":"concentrating on that that's as"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":923.21,"endTime":927.05,"body":"much as it needs to be a little"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":927.05,"endTime":931.13,"body":"bit of acknowledgement and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":927.05,"endTime":931.13,"body":"recognition for a skill that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":931.13,"endTime":934.67,"body":"they are showing. If a student"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":931.13,"endTime":934.67,"body":"feels that they're constantly"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":934.67,"endTime":938.21,"body":"being judged or criticised,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":934.67,"endTime":938.21,"body":"they're going to be a lot less"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":938.21,"endTime":942.2,"body":"willing to take part. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":938.21,"endTime":942.2,"body":"they're also not going to trust"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":942.2,"endTime":946.73,"body":"you enough to ask you for help"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":942.2,"endTime":946.73,"body":"when they get stuck. So then"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":946.73,"endTime":949.97,"body":"they're going to be learning"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":946.73,"endTime":949.97,"body":"less, and they're going to be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":949.97,"endTime":953.45,"body":"engaging less is a massive"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":949.97,"endTime":953.45,"body":"turnoff. If you feel like"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":953.45,"endTime":956.39,"body":"whatever you do, you're just"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":953.45,"endTime":956.39,"body":"gonna get criticised. And after"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":956.39,"endTime":959.9,"body":"a while most of us would just"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":956.39,"endTime":959.9,"body":"think sod this and give up"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":959.9,"endTime":960.5,"body":"trying."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":960.6,"endTime":962.52,"body":"So let's have a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":960.6,"endTime":962.52,"body":"think now. And this sounds"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":962.52,"endTime":966.93,"body":"counterintuitive. But we also"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":962.52,"endTime":966.93,"body":"have to be really careful about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":966.93,"endTime":970.74,"body":"what we do praise and what we do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":966.93,"endTime":970.74,"body":"give recognition to in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":970.74,"endTime":973.68,"body":"classroom and in our schools."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":970.74,"endTime":973.68,"body":"Because when we want to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":973.68,"endTime":976.56,"body":"encourage positive behaviour,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":973.68,"endTime":976.56,"body":"well, what are we doing? Let's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":976.56,"endTime":980.22,"body":"think about quickly, what makes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":976.56,"endTime":980.22,"body":"good praise? Is it that the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":980.22,"endTime":982.98,"body":"child feels good about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":980.22,"endTime":982.98,"body":"themselves for engaging in a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":982.98,"endTime":987.06,"body":"certain behaviour, like holding"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":982.98,"endTime":987.06,"body":"a door open? Well, yeah, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":987.06,"endTime":989.94,"body":"that's nice. But I think as a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":987.06,"endTime":989.94,"body":"professional who's working with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":989.94,"endTime":993.9,"body":"children, we can aim higher than"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":989.94,"endTime":993.9,"body":"that. Okay, so I'm not against"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":993.9,"endTime":996.27,"body":"children feeling good about good"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":993.9,"endTime":996.27,"body":"behaviours. And obviously,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":996.27,"endTime":999.03,"body":"that's a good side effect of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":996.27,"endTime":999.03,"body":"giving praise. But let's try and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":999.03,"endTime":1002.09,"body":"take praise to the next level."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":999.03,"endTime":1002.09,"body":"Okay, so there are a couple of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1002.09,"endTime":1005.75,"body":"elements that make effective"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1002.09,"endTime":1005.75,"body":"praise. And the first is that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1005.75,"endTime":1008.6,"body":"the child understood it, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1005.75,"endTime":1008.6,"body":"they knew it has been directed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1008.6,"endTime":1010.4,"body":"at them. So that's the basic if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1008.6,"endTime":1010.4,"body":"the child doesn't realise you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1010.4,"endTime":1013.07,"body":"talking about them, and the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1010.4,"endTime":1013.07,"body":"child doesn't recognise what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1013.07,"endTime":1016.1,"body":"behaviour you are praising, then"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1013.07,"endTime":1016.1,"body":"the price is going to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1016.1,"endTime":1019.31,"body":"ineffective. So a quick example"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1016.1,"endTime":1019.31,"body":"here would be Danny, you're a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1019.31,"endTime":1022.7,"body":"good boy. So Danny might feel"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1019.31,"endTime":1022.7,"body":"good at receiving that praise."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1022.7,"endTime":1025.97,"body":"But he doesn't know what he was"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1022.7,"endTime":1025.97,"body":"doing that made him good. If you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1025.97,"endTime":1029.27,"body":"say, Danny, thanks for holding"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1025.97,"endTime":1029.27,"body":"open the door, that's great. Now"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1029.27,"endTime":1032.27,"body":"Danny gets that sort of hit of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1029.27,"endTime":1032.27,"body":"dopamine, he feels good about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1032.27,"endTime":1036.77,"body":"holding open the door. But he"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1032.27,"endTime":1036.77,"body":"also knows what he was doing. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1036.77,"endTime":1040.4,"body":"he can repeat it in the future."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1036.77,"endTime":1040.4,"body":"When we do it in that way. It"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1040.4,"endTime":1045.14,"body":"reinforces that very specific"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1040.4,"endTime":1045.14,"body":"behaviour. So now, when Danny"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1045.14,"endTime":1047.66,"body":"sees us in the corridor"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1045.14,"endTime":1047.66,"body":"tomorrow, he knows that if he"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1047.66,"endTime":1049.7,"body":"wants some praise and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1047.66,"endTime":1049.7,"body":"recognition, holding open the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1049.7,"endTime":1052.16,"body":"door is something that's worked"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1049.7,"endTime":1052.16,"body":"for him in the past. But I would"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1052.16,"endTime":1056.21,"body":"go even further than now I would"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1052.16,"endTime":1056.21,"body":"say something that makes really"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1056.21,"endTime":1060.8,"body":"high quality praise is you are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1056.21,"endTime":1060.8,"body":"praising in a way that other"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1060.8,"endTime":1065.18,"body":"children who are nearby can hear"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1060.8,"endTime":1065.18,"body":"the praise, and copy that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1065.18,"endTime":1068.39,"body":"desired behaviour. So that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1065.18,"endTime":1068.39,"body":"positive behaviour can grow and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1068.39,"endTime":1070.28,"body":"spread. And that was a good"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1068.39,"endTime":1070.28,"body":"example there. If Danny's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1070.28,"endTime":1072.86,"body":"holding open the door, and we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1070.28,"endTime":1072.86,"body":"walk past and I say that's good,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1072.86,"endTime":1076.49,"body":"good boy, Danny, the other"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1072.86,"endTime":1076.49,"body":"children walking paths might not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1076.49,"endTime":1080.06,"body":"necessarily pick up on what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1076.49,"endTime":1080.06,"body":"Danny was doing. If we say to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1080.06,"endTime":1082.4,"body":"Danny, thanks for holding open"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1080.06,"endTime":1082.4,"body":"the door, that's really helpful."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1082.64,"endTime":1085.67,"body":"Now the other children can think"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1082.64,"endTime":1085.67,"body":"wow, so it's giving out praise"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1085.67,"endTime":1087.65,"body":"for people holding open doors,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1085.67,"endTime":1087.65,"body":"and they can run down the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1087.65,"endTime":1089.87,"body":"corridor for me and hold open"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1087.65,"endTime":1089.87,"body":"the next door, which you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1089.87,"endTime":1093.35,"body":"might create its own set of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1089.87,"endTime":1093.35,"body":"problems. But that price has"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1093.35,"endTime":1096.71,"body":"been clear, it's been specific."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1093.35,"endTime":1096.71,"body":"And now it can grow and spread"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1096.71,"endTime":1099.89,"body":"from child to child to child. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1096.71,"endTime":1099.89,"body":"I'm not against making children"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1099.89,"endTime":1102.02,"body":"feel good about doing the right"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1099.89,"endTime":1102.02,"body":"thing. But if we're specific,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1102.02,"endTime":1105.41,"body":"and we do it in the right way,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1102.02,"endTime":1105.41,"body":"then actually, those behaviours"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1105.41,"endTime":1107.81,"body":"can grow and spread amongst the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1105.41,"endTime":1107.81,"body":"children as a whole and make"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1107.81,"endTime":1109.76,"body":"lots of children feel good about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1107.81,"endTime":1109.76,"body":"doing the right thing."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1109.79,"endTime":1112.25,"body":"The sort of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1109.79,"endTime":1112.25,"body":"praising the individual and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1112.34,"endTime":1114.92,"body":"setting up the rest of the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1112.34,"endTime":1114.92,"body":"children to be successful at the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1114.92,"endTime":1118.85,"body":"same time through one simple"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1114.92,"endTime":1118.85,"body":"well constructed, well thought"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1118.85,"endTime":1119.78,"body":"out sentence."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1119.81,"endTime":1120.14,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1120.0,"endTime":1122.04,"body":"So we've got to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1120.0,"endTime":1122.04,"body":"remember as well, that praise"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1122.07,"endTime":1126.57,"body":"should be proportional. So a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1122.07,"endTime":1126.57,"body":"good example might be, let's use"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1126.57,"endTime":1130.02,"body":"an example of Billy who was"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1126.57,"endTime":1130.02,"body":"struggling with a piece of work,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1130.02,"endTime":1133.86,"body":"but he's stuck at it even when"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1130.02,"endTime":1133.86,"body":"it was hard. So I could say,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1133.95,"endTime":1137.58,"body":"Billy, I really liked the way"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1133.95,"endTime":1137.58,"body":"that you stuck at that task,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1137.64,"endTime":1141.18,"body":"even when you were finding it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1137.64,"endTime":1141.18,"body":"tricky. So I'm drawing attention"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1141.18,"endTime":1145.05,"body":"to exactly the quality that I"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1141.18,"endTime":1145.05,"body":"liked, and that I want to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1145.05,"endTime":1148.38,"body":"reinforce. But it's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1145.05,"endTime":1148.38,"body":"proportional. So I'm pleased"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1148.38,"endTime":1151.35,"body":"with him. I'm warm towards him."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1148.38,"endTime":1151.35,"body":"And I'm giving him some positive"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1151.35,"endTime":1154.98,"body":"feedback about that. Now, I"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1151.35,"endTime":1154.98,"body":"could also go completely"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1154.98,"endTime":1158.97,"body":"overboard and be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1154.98,"endTime":1158.97,"body":"disproportionate so Billy's put"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1158.97,"endTime":1162.24,"body":"in a little bit of effort, but"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1158.97,"endTime":1162.24,"body":"I've gone absolutely over the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1162.24,"endTime":1166.35,"body":"top and made it sound like he's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1162.24,"endTime":1166.35,"body":"just, you know, performed CPR in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1166.35,"endTime":1168.78,"body":"the classroom and save"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1166.35,"endTime":1168.78,"body":"somebody's life. So I could say"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1168.78,"endTime":1174.21,"body":"wow, Billy, you're amazing. What"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1168.78,"endTime":1174.21,"body":"a superstar. You've already"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1174.21,"endTime":1178.14,"body":"written your name. That's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1174.21,"endTime":1178.14,"body":"incredible. Give yourself 100"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1178.14,"endTime":1182.43,"body":"House points. Woohoo, everybody."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1178.14,"endTime":1182.43,"body":"Let's give Billy a clap. Now."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1182.7,"endTime":1186.18,"body":"That's actually not going to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1182.7,"endTime":1186.18,"body":"work for Billy. It's very"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1186.21,"endTime":1190.38,"body":"embarrassing for a start. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1186.21,"endTime":1190.38,"body":"Billy can see right through that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1190.41,"endTime":1193.98,"body":"writing his name wasn't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1190.41,"endTime":1193.98,"body":"difficult for him. He can do it."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1194.01,"endTime":1197.34,"body":"He does it day in day out. There"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1194.01,"endTime":1197.34,"body":"is no need for me to go"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1197.34,"endTime":1200.55,"body":"massively over the top like"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1197.34,"endTime":1200.55,"body":"that. There's no need for me to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1200.55,"endTime":1204.42,"body":"go. So hyperbole, it's just"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1200.55,"endTime":1204.42,"body":"embarrassing and cringy. And it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1204.42,"endTime":1207.12,"body":"makes Billy probably think I've"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1204.42,"endTime":1207.12,"body":"lost my marbles to be quite"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1207.12,"endTime":1212.94,"body":"honest. It's not going to create"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1207.12,"endTime":1212.94,"body":"that security and that trusting"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1212.94,"endTime":1215.22,"body":"relationship between us he's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1212.94,"endTime":1215.22,"body":"probably going to be a little"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1215.22,"endTime":1216.9,"body":"bit wary to be honest."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1216.98,"endTime":1218.57,"body":"He might think"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1216.98,"endTime":1218.57,"body":"you're being sarcastic."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1218.69,"endTime":1221.78,"body":"Absolutely,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1218.69,"endTime":1221.78,"body":"absolutely. And sometimes, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1221.81,"endTime":1224.6,"body":"that's how it can be perceived."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1221.81,"endTime":1224.6,"body":"And sometimes other children"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1224.6,"endTime":1227.21,"body":"think that you're being"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1224.6,"endTime":1227.21,"body":"sarcastic too. So they might"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1227.21,"endTime":1230.6,"body":"start laughing. But at Billy,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1227.21,"endTime":1230.6,"body":"you know, not laughing with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1230.6,"endTime":1237.17,"body":"Billy. So yeah, definitely. Be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1230.6,"endTime":1237.17,"body":"calm, be specific, be clear, be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1237.17,"endTime":1241.13,"body":"warm and be proportionate about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1237.17,"endTime":1241.13,"body":"what it is that you're praising."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1241.0,"endTime":1242.47,"body":"Just to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1241.0,"endTime":1242.47,"body":"clear, then when I did that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1242.47,"endTime":1245.2,"body":"podcast art the other week and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1242.47,"endTime":1245.2,"body":"you said it was the most amazing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1245.2,"endTime":1248.2,"body":"podcast art I'd ever seen the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1245.2,"endTime":1248.2,"body":"way I'd done the green going"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1248.2,"endTime":1250.96,"body":"into the blue the way it was"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1248.2,"endTime":1250.96,"body":"graduated. It was absolutely"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1250.96,"endTime":1252.64,"body":"that was all genuine. Yeah, that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1250.96,"endTime":1252.64,"body":"would that wasn't..?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1252.67,"endTime":1254.14,"body":"Completely"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1252.67,"endTime":1254.14,"body":"genuine, I think you're an"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1254.14,"endTime":1259.12,"body":"absolute superstar Simon. So a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1254.14,"endTime":1259.12,"body":"piece of good praise, then good"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1259.12,"endTime":1263.35,"body":"praise structure I like is start"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1259.12,"endTime":1263.35,"body":"with the child's name. Because"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1263.35,"endTime":1266.44,"body":"not every child recognises that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1263.35,"endTime":1266.44,"body":"you are speaking to them and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1266.44,"endTime":1270.49,"body":"they're not queued in. So start"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1266.44,"endTime":1270.49,"body":"with their name, a little pause"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1270.61,"endTime":1274.75,"body":"to give them a chance to cue in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1270.61,"endTime":1274.75,"body":"be very specific, as Simon said."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1274.75,"endTime":1277.96,"body":"So we'd Pete what it is that you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1274.75,"endTime":1277.96,"body":"like that they're doing? And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1277.96,"endTime":1280.39,"body":"then a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1277.96,"endTime":1280.39,"body":"acknowledgement on the end. So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1280.42,"endTime":1284.23,"body":"Billy, I like the way that you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1280.42,"endTime":1284.23,"body":"really stuck at that task, even"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1284.23,"endTime":1287.71,"body":"when it was hard. Thank you all"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1284.23,"endTime":1287.71,"body":"well done, or good job."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1287.75,"endTime":1289.76,"body":"We're going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1287.75,"endTime":1289.76,"body":"circle back now to Carol Dweck,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1289.76,"endTime":1293.72,"body":"because her work also tells us"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1289.76,"endTime":1293.72,"body":"about the sort of activities"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1293.72,"endTime":1296.39,"body":"that we should be praising, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1293.72,"endTime":1296.39,"body":"the sort of praise that we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1296.39,"endTime":1299.0,"body":"should avoid. So to take the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1296.39,"endTime":1299.0,"body":"example of Billy there, maybe"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1299.0,"endTime":1302.09,"body":"Billy is done really well"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1299.0,"endTime":1302.09,"body":"reading his book or something."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1302.09,"endTime":1304.76,"body":"And you say to him, Well done,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1302.09,"endTime":1304.76,"body":"Billy, you read that book"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1304.85,"endTime":1309.17,"body":"perfectly. Now that is praising"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1304.85,"endTime":1309.17,"body":"outcomes. So a child's on a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1309.17,"endTime":1311.57,"body":"piece of work. So and we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1309.17,"endTime":1311.57,"body":"looking at the outcome, and we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1311.57,"endTime":1314.09,"body":"said the outcome was correct,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1311.57,"endTime":1314.09,"body":"you've done well, that is the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1314.09,"endTime":1317.84,"body":"traditional sort of praise that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1314.09,"endTime":1317.84,"body":"you'll see in a classroom. Carol"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1317.87,"endTime":1322.73,"body":"Dweck found problems with that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1317.87,"endTime":1322.73,"body":"kind of praise. And what she"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1322.73,"endTime":1325.94,"body":"found was we are better off"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1322.73,"endTime":1325.94,"body":"praising the effort involved,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1325.97,"endTime":1329.06,"body":"you tried really hard to read"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1325.97,"endTime":1329.06,"body":"all of the words in that book"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1329.12,"endTime":1331.94,"body":"than praising the outcome. And I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1329.12,"endTime":1331.94,"body":"just want to spend some time"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1331.94,"endTime":1336.41,"body":"thinking about why that might"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1331.94,"endTime":1336.41,"body":"be. And why praising good work"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1336.41,"endTime":1339.98,"body":"and good outcomes might actually"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1336.41,"endTime":1339.98,"body":"sort of counter intuitively"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1340.01,"endTime":1343.64,"body":"result in a child taking fewer"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1340.01,"endTime":1343.64,"body":"risks with their learning, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1343.64,"endTime":1346.49,"body":"actually kind of hemming them in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1343.64,"endTime":1346.49,"body":"in terms of their progress in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1346.49,"endTime":1350.66,"body":"school. So let's imagine we've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1346.49,"endTime":1350.66,"body":"got a child who has read a book"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1350.66,"endTime":1353.33,"body":"in the book corner to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1350.66,"endTime":1353.33,"body":"teacher, and got praise for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1353.33,"endTime":1356.18,"body":"reading every word correctly."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1353.33,"endTime":1356.18,"body":"Now, that child may then"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1356.18,"endTime":1359.99,"body":"internalise that as thinking,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1356.18,"endTime":1359.99,"body":"well, the adults only recognise"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1359.99,"endTime":1364.46,"body":"me. And the only value me when I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1359.99,"endTime":1364.46,"body":"get everything right when I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1364.46,"endTime":1368.63,"body":"produce a real quality work, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1364.46,"endTime":1368.63,"body":"then then might look at a book"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1368.63,"endTime":1371.12,"body":"in the book corner that's a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1368.63,"endTime":1371.12,"body":"little bit harder. At the back"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1371.12,"endTime":1373.88,"body":"of their mind, there might be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1371.12,"endTime":1373.88,"body":"the thought that if they try"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1373.88,"endTime":1377.45,"body":"something hard, and they don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1373.88,"endTime":1377.45,"body":"get it completely correct, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1377.45,"endTime":1380.15,"body":"they start making mistakes, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1377.45,"endTime":1380.15,"body":"they don't do as well as they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1380.15,"endTime":1383.99,"body":"did with the easier book, then"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1380.15,"endTime":1383.99,"body":"the adults might stop valuing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1383.99,"endTime":1386.21,"body":"them, the adult might look at"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1383.99,"endTime":1386.21,"body":"them and think, Oh, you're not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1386.21,"endTime":1389.54,"body":"as good as I thought you were."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1386.21,"endTime":1389.54,"body":"Whereas if we praise belief or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1389.54,"endTime":1392.96,"body":"trying hard, it doesn't matter"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1389.54,"endTime":1392.96,"body":"if he makes mistakes. And it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1392.96,"endTime":1395.48,"body":"doesn't matter whether he gets"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1392.96,"endTime":1395.48,"body":"the book completely correct."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1395.48,"endTime":1400.1,"body":"What we are doing is recognising"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1395.48,"endTime":1400.1,"body":"and encouraging the act of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1400.1,"endTime":1404.21,"body":"learning and reading itself."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1400.1,"endTime":1404.21,"body":"We're recognising him engaging"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1404.21,"endTime":1407.51,"body":"in that activity. And when Billy"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1404.21,"endTime":1407.51,"body":"looks at a book, he thinks,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1407.51,"endTime":1409.88,"body":"Well, when I sit down and read a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1407.51,"endTime":1409.88,"body":"book, I get recognition and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1409.88,"endTime":1412.73,"body":"encouragement from the adult."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1409.88,"endTime":1412.73,"body":"It's not about whether I get it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1412.73,"endTime":1416.84,"body":"all right. It's about whether I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1412.73,"endTime":1416.84,"body":"engage with the task. And Carol"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1416.84,"endTime":1419.78,"body":"Dweck says research has shown"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1416.84,"endTime":1419.78,"body":"that this is true. And it's been"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1419.78,"endTime":1422.6,"body":"replicated in study after study"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1419.78,"endTime":1422.6,"body":"after study after study."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1422.63,"endTime":1425.21,"body":"So another"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1422.63,"endTime":1425.21,"body":"famous Carol Dweck study is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1425.21,"endTime":1429.32,"body":"where children were split into"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1425.21,"endTime":1429.32,"body":"two groups, they were both given"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1429.35,"endTime":1434.3,"body":"exactly the same test and Group"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1429.35,"endTime":1434.3,"body":"A was praised for how well they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1434.3,"endTime":1437.87,"body":"did on the test, while Group B"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1434.3,"endTime":1437.87,"body":"was praised for the effort that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1437.87,"endTime":1441.17,"body":"they put into the test. So this"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1437.87,"endTime":1441.17,"body":"reinforces what Simon was saying"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1441.17,"endTime":1445.55,"body":"they're at a later date, they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1441.17,"endTime":1445.55,"body":"were given a test that was much"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1445.55,"endTime":1451.04,"body":"harder and much longer. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1445.55,"endTime":1451.04,"body":"guess what the children in Group"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1451.1,"endTime":1456.44,"body":"A actually did worse, and gave"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1451.1,"endTime":1456.44,"body":"up more quickly than the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1456.44,"endTime":1461.51,"body":"children in Group B, who also"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1456.44,"endTime":1461.51,"body":"reported actually enjoying the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1461.51,"endTime":1465.53,"body":"test more. So those children who"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1461.51,"endTime":1465.53,"body":"were only praised on their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1465.53,"endTime":1468.92,"body":"achievements actually gave up"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1465.53,"endTime":1468.92,"body":"more quickly and didn't do so"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1468.92,"endTime":1471.98,"body":"well. But the children who"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1468.92,"endTime":1471.98,"body":"previously been praised for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1471.98,"endTime":1477.29,"body":"their effort, actually enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1471.98,"endTime":1477.29,"body":"trying hard and putting more"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1477.29,"endTime":1479.69,"body":"effort in so that's really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1477.29,"endTime":1479.69,"body":"backing up what you were talking"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1479.69,"endTime":1480.77,"body":"about there. Simon,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1480.83,"endTime":1483.11,"body":"it reminds me a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1480.83,"endTime":1483.11,"body":"few years ago, there was a pre"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1483.11,"endTime":1487.19,"body":"COVID There was a really hard"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1483.11,"endTime":1487.19,"body":"year six SATs reading paper and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1487.19,"endTime":1489.68,"body":"lots of schools were talking"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1487.19,"endTime":1489.68,"body":"about how difficult it was to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1489.68,"endTime":1492.92,"body":"access. And you could see there"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1489.68,"endTime":1492.92,"body":"the children that had been"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1492.92,"endTime":1495.38,"body":"encouraged to continue with a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1492.92,"endTime":1495.38,"body":"task even though they found it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1495.38,"endTime":1498.23,"body":"difficult. And the kids who just"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1495.38,"endTime":1498.23,"body":"looked at that paper and thought"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1498.41,"endTime":1501.98,"body":"if I'm not going to get the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1498.41,"endTime":1501.98,"body":"reward for the achievement, then"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1501.98,"endTime":1504.41,"body":"there's no point in digging in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1501.98,"endTime":1504.41,"body":"and working anyway, in a lot of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1504.41,"endTime":1507.44,"body":"those kids were kind of given up"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1504.41,"endTime":1507.44,"body":"very quickly. Whereas the kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1507.44,"endTime":1510.11,"body":"who have been sort of encouraged"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1507.44,"endTime":1510.11,"body":"to engage with the task and were"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1510.11,"endTime":1512.72,"body":"rewarded for the trying and the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1510.11,"endTime":1512.72,"body":"effort, they were much more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1512.72,"endTime":1515.39,"body":"likely to persist with it. So it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1512.72,"endTime":1515.39,"body":"does have effects in the you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1515.39,"endTime":1517.13,"body":"know, in the real world, we have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1515.39,"endTime":1517.13,"body":"got to be careful what we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1517.13,"endTime":1519.11,"body":"saying to kids, so we don't have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1517.13,"endTime":1519.11,"body":"these unintentional"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1519.11,"endTime":1519.8,"body":"consequences."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1519.86,"endTime":1522.56,"body":"I know I used"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1519.86,"endTime":1522.56,"body":"to use perfect a lot. I used to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1522.59,"endTime":1525.53,"body":"give that as part of my praise."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1522.59,"endTime":1525.53,"body":"I used to say, Well done, you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1525.53,"endTime":1528.8,"body":"did that perfectly, or well"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1525.53,"endTime":1528.8,"body":"done. That's perfect. And then I"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1528.8,"endTime":1532.25,"body":"realised that actually,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1528.8,"endTime":1532.25,"body":"perfectionism wasn't a quality"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1532.25,"endTime":1536.21,"body":"that I wanted to instil and want"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1532.25,"endTime":1536.21,"body":"it to grow because it's easy to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1536.21,"endTime":1539.21,"body":"fail. It's easy to feel let down"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1536.21,"endTime":1539.21,"body":"when the next thing that you do"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1539.24,"endTime":1542.69,"body":"isn't perfect. So after I"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1539.24,"endTime":1542.69,"body":"learned about Carol Dweck,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1542.69,"endTime":1546.47,"body":"research, I stopped using"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1542.69,"endTime":1546.47,"body":"perfect because I don't want"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1546.47,"endTime":1549.53,"body":"children to think that it's only"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1546.47,"endTime":1549.53,"body":"worth doing something if they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1549.53,"endTime":1552.32,"body":"can produce it perfectly,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1549.53,"endTime":1552.32,"body":"because that really limits what"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1552.32,"endTime":1553.19,"body":"they're going to have a go at."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1553.25,"endTime":1555.08,"body":"I actually saw"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1553.25,"endTime":1555.08,"body":"this with one of my own kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1555.08,"endTime":1557.12,"body":"these to have one of these"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1555.08,"endTime":1557.12,"body":"little portable video games from"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1557.12,"endTime":1560.33,"body":"her about three or four. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1557.12,"endTime":1560.33,"body":"they had to solve mazes on on a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1560.33,"endTime":1563.15,"body":"railway track and one of my"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1560.33,"endTime":1563.15,"body":"children, they used to love"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1563.15,"endTime":1566.15,"body":"doing new mazes together, and we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1563.15,"endTime":1566.15,"body":"would solve it together. But"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1566.15,"endTime":1569.54,"body":"they would only play mazes that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1566.15,"endTime":1569.54,"body":"they'd completed with me in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1569.54,"endTime":1572.81,"body":"past. And when we look back, we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1569.54,"endTime":1572.81,"body":"realised as parents Oh, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1572.81,"endTime":1575.03,"body":"we've been saying, well done."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1572.81,"endTime":1575.03,"body":"You've got it, right, you've got"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1575.03,"endTime":1578.03,"body":"there. We weren't sort of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1575.03,"endTime":1578.03,"body":"talking about the process and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1578.3,"endTime":1581.3,"body":"showing that we value the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1578.3,"endTime":1581.3,"body":"process of experimentation"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1581.3,"endTime":1581.66,"body":"itself."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1581.69,"endTime":1584.27,"body":"Yeah, having a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1581.69,"endTime":1584.27,"body":"go having a go rather than"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1584.27,"endTime":1587.09,"body":"getting it right. And that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1584.27,"endTime":1587.09,"body":"brings us to the end of today's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1587.09,"endTime":1590.15,"body":"episode. So if you work with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1587.09,"endTime":1590.15,"body":"children who present tricky"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1590.15,"endTime":1593.06,"body":"behaviours in the classroom, and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1590.15,"endTime":1593.06,"body":"you're not sure why they're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1593.06,"endTime":1596.54,"body":"acting that way, we've got a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1593.06,"endTime":1596.54,"body":"download that can help."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1596.66,"endTime":1599.06,"body":"It's called the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1596.66,"endTime":1599.06,"body":"SEND handbook, and it will help"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1599.06,"endTime":1601.34,"body":"you link behaviours you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1599.06,"endTime":1601.34,"body":"seeing in the classroom to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1601.34,"endTime":1604.7,"body":"possible causes, like autism,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1601.34,"endTime":1604.7,"body":"trauma or ADHD."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1604.76,"endTime":1607.1,"body":"And of course,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1604.76,"endTime":1607.1,"body":"the idea here isn't for teachers"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1607.1,"endTime":1610.07,"body":"to make a diagnosis because"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1607.1,"endTime":1610.07,"body":"we're not qualified to do that,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1610.31,"endTime":1613.61,"body":"that requires a medical"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1610.31,"endTime":1613.61,"body":"professional. But if we can link"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1613.61,"endTime":1616.97,"body":"behaviours to possible causes"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1613.61,"endTime":1616.97,"body":"quickly, it means that we can"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1616.97,"endTime":1620.42,"body":"get the right help and get early"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1616.97,"endTime":1620.42,"body":"intervention strategies in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1620.42,"endTime":1621.14,"body":"place."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1621.3,"endTime":1623.19,"body":"Plus, the new"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1621.3,"endTime":1623.19,"body":"version of the guide contains"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1623.19,"endTime":1626.88,"body":"fact sheets for PDA, ODD,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1623.19,"endTime":1626.88,"body":"developmental language delay,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1626.97,"endTime":1627.96,"body":"and others."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1627.99,"endTime":1630.24,"body":"It's a free"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1627.99,"endTime":1630.24,"body":"download. So grab your copy"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1630.24,"endTime":1633.69,"body":"today, all you've got to do is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1630.24,"endTime":1633.69,"body":"go over to our website,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1633.96,"endTime":1639.18,"body":"www.beaconschoolsupport.co.uk"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1633.96,"endTime":1639.18,"body":"click on the free resources tab"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1639.18,"endTime":1642.6,"body":"near the top, and we'll also put"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1639.18,"endTime":1642.6,"body":"a link in the episode"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1642.6,"endTime":1643.41,"body":"description."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1643.68,"endTime":1645.57,"body":"And if you've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1643.68,"endTime":1645.57,"body":"enjoyed today's podcast, then"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1645.57,"endTime":1649.56,"body":"why not subscribe so you never"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1645.57,"endTime":1649.56,"body":"miss another episode. There's no"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1649.56,"endTime":1652.92,"body":"charge. It's all completely"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1649.56,"endTime":1652.92,"body":"free. All you got to do is open"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1652.92,"endTime":1655.89,"body":"up your podcast app, press the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1652.92,"endTime":1655.89,"body":"subscribe button and your app"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1655.89,"endTime":1659.67,"body":"will automatically download each"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1655.89,"endTime":1659.67,"body":"and every episode as it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1659.67,"endTime":1663.09,"body":"released. And to celebrate"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1659.67,"endTime":1663.09,"body":"subscribing. Why not howl into"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1663.09,"endTime":1666.33,"body":"the wind, harness the power of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1663.09,"endTime":1666.33,"body":"the pack and release yourself"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1666.33,"endTime":1669.63,"body":"some real wolf energy, looking"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1666.33,"endTime":1669.63,"body":"good lupine you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1669.69,"endTime":1671.79,"body":"We both hope"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1669.69,"endTime":1671.79,"body":"you have a brilliant week and I"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1671.79,"endTime":1675.3,"body":"look forward to seeing you next"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1671.79,"endTime":1675.3,"body":"time on school behaviour. Bye"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1675.3,"endTime":1675.84,"body":"for now."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1675.87,"endTime":1676.47,"body":"Bye"}]}