{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":87.35,"endTime":91.69999999999999,"body":"So if somebody with"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":87.35,"endTime":91.69999999999999,"body":"a PDA profile is understood as"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":91.69999999999999,"endTime":95.36,"body":"having an autism spectrum"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":91.69999999999999,"endTime":95.36,"body":"condition, and a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":95.36,"endTime":99.22999999999999,"body":"usual good autism practice"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":95.36,"endTime":99.22999999999999,"body":"strategies are put in place,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":99.25999999999999,"endTime":103.55,"body":"because those are largely"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":99.25999999999999,"endTime":103.55,"body":"centred around clarity and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":103.55,"endTime":107.50999999999999,"body":"predictability. And there are"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":103.55,"endTime":107.50999999999999,"body":"lots of benefits of that. But"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":107.53999999999999,"endTime":112.00999999999999,"body":"the downside of it is that what"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":107.53999999999999,"endTime":112.00999999999999,"body":"it can produce in strategies is"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":112.03999999999999,"endTime":115.97,"body":"an approach that is very"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":112.03999999999999,"endTime":115.97,"body":"structured and not very"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":115.97,"endTime":119.72,"body":"flexible. And that means that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":115.97,"endTime":119.72,"body":"that approach is very heavy on"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":119.72,"endTime":123.56,"body":"demand. And so for the young"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":119.72,"endTime":123.56,"body":"person with PDA, it's going to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":123.56,"endTime":126.53,"body":"be regularly and repeatedly"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":123.56,"endTime":126.53,"body":"triggering their demand"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":126.53,"endTime":127.31,"body":"avoidance."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":127.37,"endTime":129.98,"body":"Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":127.37,"endTime":129.98,"body":"school behaviour secrets"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":129.98,"endTime":133.39999999999998,"body":"podcast. I'm your host, Simon"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":129.98,"endTime":133.39999999999998,"body":"Currigan. My co host is Emma"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":133.39999999999998,"endTime":137.0,"body":"Shackleton and we're obsessed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":133.39999999999998,"endTime":137.0,"body":"with helping teachers, school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":137.0,"endTime":139.91,"body":"leaders, parents, and of course,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":137.0,"endTime":139.91,"body":"students. When classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":139.91,"endTime":142.82,"body":"behaviour gets in the way of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":139.91,"endTime":142.82,"body":"success. We're going to share"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":142.82,"endTime":145.45999999999998,"body":"the tried and tested secrets to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":142.82,"endTime":145.45999999999998,"body":"classroom management,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":145.49,"endTime":149.0,"body":"behavioural special needs, Power"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":145.49,"endTime":149.0,"body":"School Strategy, and more. All"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":149.0,"endTime":151.82,"body":"with the aim of helping your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":149.0,"endTime":151.82,"body":"students reach their true"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":151.82,"endTime":155.24,"body":"potential. Plus, we'll be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":151.82,"endTime":155.24,"body":"letting you eavesdrop on our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":155.24,"endTime":158.36,"body":"conversations with thought"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":155.24,"endTime":158.36,"body":"leaders from around the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":158.51,"endTime":161.48,"body":"So you'll get to hear their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":158.51,"endTime":161.48,"body":"latest evidence based strategies"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":161.48,"endTime":165.62,"body":"before anyone else. This is the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":161.48,"endTime":165.62,"body":"school behaviour secrets"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":165.62,"endTime":166.45999999999998,"body":"podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":166.91,"endTime":170.45,"body":"Hi there, Simon Currigan here"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":166.91,"endTime":170.45,"body":"and welcome to this snackable"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":170.48,"endTime":174.47,"body":"essentials episode of school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":170.48,"endTime":174.47,"body":"behaviour secrets. In this mini"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":174.5,"endTime":177.70999999999998,"body":"essentials episode, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":174.5,"endTime":177.70999999999998,"body":"share with you one important"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":177.74,"endTime":181.04,"body":"bite sized piece of information"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":177.74,"endTime":181.04,"body":"or a helpful strategy from a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":181.04,"endTime":184.94,"body":"previous interview episode that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":181.04,"endTime":184.94,"body":"you can use straight away with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":184.94,"endTime":187.57999999999998,"body":"the kids that you work with."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":184.94,"endTime":187.57999999999998,"body":"Because in a world where"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":187.76,"endTime":190.82,"body":"teachers and school leaders are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":187.76,"endTime":190.82,"body":"constantly bombarded by"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":190.82,"endTime":194.45,"body":"information, it's helpful to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":190.82,"endTime":194.45,"body":"have little reminders every now"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":194.45,"endTime":197.95999999999998,"body":"and then, to keep important"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":194.45,"endTime":197.95999999999998,"body":"strategy is top of mind. In this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":197.95999999999998,"endTime":200.78,"body":"essentials episode I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":197.95999999999998,"endTime":200.78,"body":"share an insight into"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":200.78,"endTime":205.16,"body":"pathological demand avoidance"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":200.78,"endTime":205.16,"body":"from Ruth Fidler from Episode"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":205.19,"endTime":208.97,"body":"16. Ruth is an educational"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":205.19,"endTime":208.97,"body":"consultant who specialises in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":208.97,"endTime":212.72,"body":"complex forms of autism,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":208.97,"endTime":212.72,"body":"including pathological demand"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":212.72,"endTime":216.73999999999998,"body":"avoidance and people's emotional"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":212.72,"endTime":216.73999999999998,"body":"well being. She's also co author"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":216.73999999999998,"endTime":219.82999999999998,"body":"of a number of books including"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":216.73999999999998,"endTime":219.82999999999998,"body":"understanding pathological"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":219.82999999999998,"endTime":224.03,"body":"demand avoidance syndrome and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":219.82999999999998,"endTime":224.03,"body":"children and girls and autism."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":224.09,"endTime":228.76999999999998,"body":"Here's Ruth explaining what PDA"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":224.09,"endTime":228.76999999999998,"body":"is how it drives a student's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":228.76999999999998,"endTime":233.42,"body":"behaviour, and how we as adults"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":228.76999999999998,"endTime":233.42,"body":"can respond in a constructive"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":233.42,"endTime":236.66,"body":"way to that people's needs,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":233.42,"endTime":236.66,"body":"without making things worse."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":236.96,"endTime":240.2,"body":"Why does having a diagnosis or a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":236.96,"endTime":240.2,"body":"distinct description of the PDA"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":240.2,"endTime":242.03,"body":"profile make a difference?"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":242.07,"endTime":244.92,"body":"Well, I think there"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":242.07,"endTime":244.92,"body":"are some really important key"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":244.95,"endTime":249.09,"body":"ways. One of them is"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":244.95,"endTime":249.09,"body":"fundamentally about the well"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":249.09,"endTime":253.23,"body":"being of the individuals with a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":249.09,"endTime":253.23,"body":"PDA profile. Because often what"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":253.23,"endTime":257.19,"body":"happens and we see this across"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":253.23,"endTime":257.19,"body":"all sorts of differences, and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":257.19,"endTime":260.52,"body":"certainly within the world of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":257.19,"endTime":260.52,"body":"autism spectrum conditions, if"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":260.52,"endTime":264.27,"body":"somebody doesn't have a degree"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":260.52,"endTime":264.27,"body":"of understanding of their"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":264.27,"endTime":267.15,"body":"profile and of their"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":264.27,"endTime":267.15,"body":"differences, actually, it makes"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":267.15,"endTime":271.04999999999995,"body":"it much harder for them to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":267.15,"endTime":271.04999999999995,"body":"manage their lives, their social"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":271.04999999999995,"endTime":273.99,"body":"relationships, their"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":271.04999999999995,"endTime":273.99,"body":"aspirations, and that's not"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":273.99,"endTime":277.77,"body":"about limiting them, that's"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":273.99,"endTime":277.77,"body":"about helping support their self"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":277.77,"endTime":281.66999999999996,"body":"awareness so that they are"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":277.77,"endTime":281.66999999999996,"body":"better equipped for knowing what"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":281.66999999999996,"endTime":286.02,"body":"is likely to work well for them."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":281.66999999999996,"endTime":286.02,"body":"And therefore, to accessing the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":286.02,"endTime":291.09000000000003,"body":"help that they need, it can also"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":286.02,"endTime":291.09000000000003,"body":"seriously support their self"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":291.18,"endTime":295.71000000000004,"body":"esteem. Because if you are"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":291.18,"endTime":295.71000000000004,"body":"experiencing differences that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":295.71000000000004,"endTime":299.66999999999996,"body":"sometimes present difficulties"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":295.71000000000004,"endTime":299.66999999999996,"body":"into your life, and you don't"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":299.66999999999996,"endTime":304.95,"body":"have an explanation or a context"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":299.66999999999996,"endTime":304.95,"body":"to understand that within then a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":304.95,"endTime":309.29999999999995,"body":"lot of young people might turn"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":304.95,"endTime":309.29999999999995,"body":"that in on themselves and have a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":309.29999999999995,"endTime":312.53999999999996,"body":"very negative view of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":309.29999999999995,"endTime":312.53999999999996,"body":"themselves, or unfortunately"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":312.53999999999996,"endTime":317.49,"body":"might get really unhelpful"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":312.53999999999996,"endTime":317.49,"body":"unkind labels, if you like from"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":317.52,"endTime":322.23,"body":"some of their peers. The other"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":317.52,"endTime":322.23,"body":"really key factor in getting a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":322.23,"endTime":326.97,"body":"distinctive diagnosis is about"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":322.23,"endTime":326.97,"body":"having access to the right sort"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":326.97,"endTime":331.91999999999996,"body":"of approaches. So if somebody"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":326.97,"endTime":331.91999999999996,"body":"with a PDA profile is understood"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":331.98,"endTime":335.90999999999997,"body":"as having an autism spectrum"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":331.98,"endTime":335.90999999999997,"body":"condition, and a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":335.90999999999997,"endTime":339.78,"body":"usual good autism practice"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":335.90999999999997,"endTime":339.78,"body":"strategies are put in place,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":339.81,"endTime":344.07000000000005,"body":"because those are largely"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":339.81,"endTime":344.07000000000005,"body":"centred around clarity and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":344.07000000000005,"endTime":348.03,"body":"predictability. And there are"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":344.07000000000005,"endTime":348.03,"body":"lots of benefits of that. But"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":348.05999999999995,"endTime":352.53,"body":"the downside of it is that what"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":348.05999999999995,"endTime":352.53,"body":"it can produce in strategies is"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":352.59000000000003,"endTime":356.52,"body":"an approach that is very"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":352.59000000000003,"endTime":356.52,"body":"structured and not very"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":356.52,"endTime":360.24,"body":"flexible. And that means that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":356.52,"endTime":360.24,"body":"that approach is very heavy on"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":360.24,"endTime":364.08000000000004,"body":"demand. And so for the young"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":360.24,"endTime":364.08000000000004,"body":"person with PDA, it's going to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":364.08000000000004,"endTime":367.08000000000004,"body":"be regularly and repeatedly"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":364.08000000000004,"endTime":367.08000000000004,"body":"triggering their demand"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":367.08000000000004,"endTime":370.79999999999995,"body":"avoidance because they know"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":367.08000000000004,"endTime":370.79999999999995,"body":"exactly when to expect demands"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":370.79999999999995,"endTime":374.03999999999996,"body":"throughout the day. Yes, and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":370.79999999999995,"endTime":374.03999999999996,"body":"because they come thick and fast"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":374.03999999999996,"endTime":377.66999999999996,"body":"if you think about a sort of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":374.03999999999996,"endTime":377.66999999999996,"body":"like a visual timetable or"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":377.66999999999996,"endTime":381.27,"body":"something or teach strategies"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":377.66999999999996,"endTime":381.27,"body":"where it's a do this first, then"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":381.27,"endTime":383.85,"body":"that then the next then you know"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":381.27,"endTime":383.85,"body":"you finished and when you finish"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":383.85,"endTime":386.97,"body":"you move on to something"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":383.85,"endTime":386.97,"body":"different, there are significant"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":386.97,"endTime":390.21000000000004,"body":"advance and touches of that in"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":386.97,"endTime":390.21000000000004,"body":"terms of it being structured and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":390.21000000000004,"endTime":393.75,"body":"predictable, and that has a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":390.21000000000004,"endTime":393.75,"body":"positive impact on reducing"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":393.75,"endTime":398.66999999999996,"body":"anxiety. But for somebody with"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":393.75,"endTime":398.66999999999996,"body":"PDA, that positive impact might"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":398.66999999999996,"endTime":402.99,"body":"be outweighed by the negative"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":398.66999999999996,"endTime":402.99,"body":"impact of receiving a shopping"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":402.99,"endTime":404.66999999999996,"body":"list of demands essentially."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":404.70000000000005,"endTime":406.02,"body":"It all comes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":404.70000000000005,"endTime":406.02,"body":"back to looking at the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":406.02,"endTime":409.86,"body":"individual child, what works for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":406.02,"endTime":409.86,"body":"them, and looking at ways of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":409.86,"endTime":412.89,"body":"helping them cope with the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":409.86,"endTime":412.89,"body":"anxieties and demands throughout"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":412.89,"endTime":413.28,"body":"the day."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":413.30999999999995,"endTime":416.58000000000004,"body":"Yes, absolutely. I"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":413.30999999999995,"endTime":416.58000000000004,"body":"think it's important to be clear"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":416.58000000000004,"endTime":420.87,"body":"that when people like myself"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":416.58000000000004,"endTime":420.87,"body":"talk about strategies that are"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":420.87,"endTime":423.87,"body":"helpful for young people with"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":420.87,"endTime":423.87,"body":"PDA, we talk about being"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":423.9,"endTime":428.13,"body":"flexible and adaptable and child"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":423.9,"endTime":428.13,"body":"centred, that doesn't mean that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":428.13,"endTime":431.4,"body":"we're saying will lift all"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":428.13,"endTime":431.4,"body":"expectations, anything goes,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":431.4,"endTime":435.24,"body":"just do what works for them at"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":431.4,"endTime":435.24,"body":"any given moment. Because what"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":435.24,"endTime":439.5,"body":"we are saying is tune into that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":435.24,"endTime":439.5,"body":"know how far you can go know"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":439.5,"endTime":442.83000000000004,"body":"where to push the boundaries,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":439.5,"endTime":442.83000000000004,"body":"where to prioritise different"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":442.86,"endTime":446.90999999999997,"body":"areas of learning, because long"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":442.86,"endTime":446.90999999999997,"body":"term, what we want is we want to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":446.90999999999997,"endTime":451.20000000000005,"body":"increase their tolerance to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":446.90999999999997,"endTime":451.20000000000005,"body":"expectations, not because we"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":451.20000000000005,"endTime":454.98,"body":"want to control them, or tell"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":451.20000000000005,"endTime":454.98,"body":"them what to do a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":454.98,"endTime":458.30999999999995,"body":"time, but because of this thing"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":454.98,"endTime":458.30999999999995,"body":"that I was describing, at the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":458.30999999999995,"endTime":461.61,"body":"beginning, about a lot of those"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":458.30999999999995,"endTime":461.61,"body":"expectations are internally"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":461.61,"endTime":464.70000000000005,"body":"generated. So if we want to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":461.61,"endTime":464.70000000000005,"body":"support young people to be"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":464.70000000000005,"endTime":468.65999999999997,"body":"aspirational, we want them to be"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":464.70000000000005,"endTime":468.65999999999997,"body":"able to see through some of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":468.65999999999997,"endTime":472.26,"body":"their own aspirations and their"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":468.65999999999997,"endTime":472.26,"body":"own choices, not just those"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":472.26,"endTime":474.96000000000004,"body":"coming externally. So what are"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":472.26,"endTime":474.96000000000004,"body":"the model is placed on the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":474.96000000000004,"endTime":478.32000000000005,"body":"child? How do they experience it"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":474.96000000000004,"endTime":478.32000000000005,"body":"internally differently from"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":478.32000000000005,"endTime":481.47,"body":"other children? How can we put"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":478.32000000000005,"endTime":481.47,"body":"ourselves in their shoes? Well,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":481.47,"endTime":485.25,"body":"that's a really interesting"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":481.47,"endTime":485.25,"body":"question. I think this comes"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":485.28,"endTime":488.70000000000005,"body":"full circle straight back to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":485.28,"endTime":488.70000000000005,"body":"that you need to find out what"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":488.70000000000005,"endTime":492.72,"body":"that experience is like for that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":488.70000000000005,"endTime":492.72,"body":"individual. And I don't think"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":492.75,"endTime":496.40999999999997,"body":"there's one answer to that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":492.75,"endTime":496.40999999999997,"body":"question. I think it's very"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":496.43999999999994,"endTime":501.36,"body":"interesting to look at that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":496.43999999999994,"endTime":501.36,"body":"broader context. So to not just"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":501.36,"endTime":505.43999999999994,"body":"look at, is this child not doing"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":501.36,"endTime":505.43999999999994,"body":"what I'm asking them to do in"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":505.43999999999994,"endTime":510.21000000000004,"body":"the classroom? Because they seem"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":505.43999999999994,"endTime":510.21000000000004,"body":"to come across as deliberately"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":510.21000000000004,"endTime":514.14,"body":"difficult? Or what are the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":510.21000000000004,"endTime":514.14,"body":"broader explanations around"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":514.14,"endTime":517.92,"body":"that? If you keep in the back of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":514.14,"endTime":517.92,"body":"your mind, that notion of how"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":517.92,"endTime":521.31,"body":"does this individual's Autism"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":517.92,"endTime":521.31,"body":"Spectrum condition impact on"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":521.31,"endTime":524.9399999999999,"body":"them? Are there some issues"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":521.31,"endTime":524.9399999999999,"body":"around understanding? Are there"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":524.9399999999999,"endTime":528.3,"body":"some issues around social"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":524.9399999999999,"endTime":528.3,"body":"communication? Are there some"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":528.3,"endTime":532.38,"body":"differences around their sensory"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":528.3,"endTime":532.38,"body":"profile? Has their anxiety just"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":532.38,"endTime":535.38,"body":"been triggered? Which I might"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":532.38,"endTime":535.38,"body":"not have spotted triggering"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":535.38,"endTime":538.92,"body":"myself, maybe I have done"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":535.38,"endTime":538.92,"body":"inadvertently, am I seeing some"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":538.92,"endTime":543.51,"body":"demonstration of anxiety that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":538.92,"endTime":543.51,"body":"looks like this in that person,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":543.6,"endTime":546.9,"body":"but might look different in a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":543.6,"endTime":546.9,"body":"different person, some of us"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":546.93,"endTime":549.81,"body":"tend to be much more expressive"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":546.93,"endTime":549.81,"body":"and explosive, when we're"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":549.81,"endTime":553.68,"body":"anxious, and others tend to shut"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":549.81,"endTime":553.68,"body":"down. So we need to understand"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":553.68,"endTime":556.83,"body":"what that looks like in"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":553.68,"endTime":556.83,"body":"different individuals, don't we?"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":556.95,"endTime":560.1899999999999,"body":"And one of the things I talk a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":556.95,"endTime":560.1899999999999,"body":"lot to school practitioners"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":560.1899999999999,"endTime":564.0,"body":"about is looking at what's"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":560.1899999999999,"endTime":564.0,"body":"running in the background. So if"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":564.0,"endTime":567.15,"body":"you think of it in IT terms,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":564.0,"endTime":567.15,"body":"what are the background apps"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":567.15,"endTime":571.11,"body":"that you've got open at any"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":567.15,"endTime":571.11,"body":"given time? And is that little"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":571.11,"endTime":574.08,"body":"thing you're asking that child"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":571.11,"endTime":574.08,"body":"to do or just pop your book on"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":574.08,"endTime":578.91,"body":"the table? Is that just one too"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":574.08,"endTime":578.91,"body":"many, even though it's not an"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":578.91,"endTime":582.06,"body":"unreasonable thing, and it's"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":578.91,"endTime":582.06,"body":"asked in a very polite and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":582.06,"endTime":586.59,"body":"gentle and kindly way, etc. So"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":582.06,"endTime":586.59,"body":"being aware of what's going on"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":586.62,"endTime":591.0,"body":"for that individual, and how"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":586.62,"endTime":591.0,"body":"many simultaneously difficult"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":591.0,"endTime":595.02,"body":"things they are being asked to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":591.0,"endTime":595.02,"body":"accommodate? And on top of that,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":595.02,"endTime":599.07,"body":"I think there are lots of very"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":595.02,"endTime":599.07,"body":"valid reasons why many of us"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":599.1,"endTime":602.16,"body":"don't want to do what we're"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":599.1,"endTime":602.16,"body":"being asked to do. It happens to"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":602.16,"endTime":605.82,"body":"us all, doesn't it? And some of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":602.16,"endTime":605.82,"body":"those reasons might be that I"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":605.82,"endTime":609.78,"body":"don't understand what you're"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":605.82,"endTime":609.78,"body":"asking me to do. Or I did think"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":609.78,"endTime":613.41,"body":"it sounded quite a good idea."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":609.78,"endTime":613.41,"body":"But now it's happening. I'm not"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":613.41,"endTime":616.74,"body":"feeling in the mood so much, or"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":613.41,"endTime":616.74,"body":"something else has come up. I"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":616.74,"endTime":620.64,"body":"prefer to do that now. Or I"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":616.74,"endTime":620.64,"body":"don't like the way you asked me."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":621.0,"endTime":624.69,"body":"Or I want to do something else"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":621.0,"endTime":624.69,"body":"in a different way. Because that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":624.69,"endTime":628.1700000000001,"body":"now looks more exciting. But"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":624.69,"endTime":628.1700000000001,"body":"I'll come back to this later."},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":628.2,"endTime":632.46,"body":"Can we negotiate on it? There"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":628.2,"endTime":632.46,"body":"are all sorts of reasons why"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":632.49,"endTime":638.25,"body":"somebody might not be in a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":632.49,"endTime":638.25,"body":"position to cooperate. That is a"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":638.25,"endTime":642.9,"body":"very sad state of affairs. If"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":638.25,"endTime":642.9,"body":"education practitioners go too"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":642.9,"endTime":646.8000000000001,"body":"quickly to an assumption that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":642.9,"endTime":646.8000000000001,"body":"the reason is they are being"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":646.8000000000001,"endTime":651.15,"body":"deliberately difficult, or they"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":646.8000000000001,"endTime":651.15,"body":"are somehow defying my authority"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":651.15,"endTime":655.53,"body":"in my classroom, because that's"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":651.15,"endTime":655.53,"body":"probably quite low down the list"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":655.5600000000001,"endTime":656.85,"body":"if you picked it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":657.39,"endTime":660.09,"body":"So I've got a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":657.39,"endTime":660.09,"body":"child in my classroom who's got"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":660.09,"endTime":664.83,"body":"PDA and I can see that they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":660.09,"endTime":664.83,"body":"becoming more anxious, I can see"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":664.86,"endTime":667.71,"body":"that placing another demand on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":664.86,"endTime":667.71,"body":"them is going to create"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":667.71,"endTime":671.28,"body":"difficulties for them. What"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":667.71,"endTime":671.28,"body":"should I absolutely avoid doing?"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":671.4300000000001,"endTime":674.22,"body":"Well, you should"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":671.4300000000001,"endTime":674.22,"body":"absolutely avoid making the"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":674.22,"endTime":679.2,"body":"situation worse if you possibly"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":674.22,"endTime":679.2,"body":"can. So come back to that point"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":679.2,"endTime":682.71,"body":"that I made earlier about how"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":679.2,"endTime":682.71,"body":"many simultaneously difficult"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":682.71,"endTime":686.22,"body":"things are being asked of this"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":682.71,"endTime":686.22,"body":"young person just now and which"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":686.22,"endTime":691.14,"body":"of those are essential for this"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":686.22,"endTime":691.14,"body":"moment. And which of those can"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":691.14,"endTime":696.21,"body":"we just get rid of? Which of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":691.14,"endTime":696.21,"body":"those can we postpone? Which of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":696.21,"endTime":701.01,"body":"those can we been entirely?"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":696.21,"endTime":701.01,"body":"Which of those can we just alter"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":701.01,"endTime":705.6,"body":"the emphasis of? So if they're"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":701.01,"endTime":705.6,"body":"in a busy environment, and you"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":705.6,"endTime":709.5,"body":"think that might be contributing"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":705.6,"endTime":709.5,"body":"to sensory level, how do we"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":709.5,"endTime":713.16,"body":"quieten and calm the broader"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":709.5,"endTime":713.16,"body":"environment down. And that's not"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":713.16,"endTime":715.98,"body":"always maybe by moving that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":713.16,"endTime":715.98,"body":"child with PDA, it might be, in"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":715.98,"endTime":718.9200000000001,"body":"fact, much simpler to move"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":715.98,"endTime":718.9200000000001,"body":"everybody else. Because if you"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":718.9200000000001,"endTime":722.88,"body":"asking the child with PDA, who's"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":718.9200000000001,"endTime":722.88,"body":"already agitated to move, you're"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":722.88,"endTime":726.21,"body":"then putting another demand in"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":722.88,"endTime":726.21,"body":"the pot, if you think of it,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":726.21,"endTime":729.72,"body":"like some sort of a cat with"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":726.21,"endTime":729.72,"body":"nine lives or something, and how"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":729.72,"endTime":733.2,"body":"many do you want to use up in"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":729.72,"endTime":733.2,"body":"any given day, you're making"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":733.2,"endTime":737.4,"body":"some careful and considered"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":733.2,"endTime":737.4,"body":"decisions about what matters"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":737.4,"endTime":741.48,"body":"most in that time. So"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":737.4,"endTime":741.48,"body":"essentially, what you're trying"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":741.48,"endTime":746.1,"body":"to do is reduce the number of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":741.48,"endTime":746.1,"body":"additional agitators you put in"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":746.1,"endTime":751.74,"body":"place, then maybe consider what"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":746.1,"endTime":751.74,"body":"is going to work to soothe this"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":751.74,"endTime":756.48,"body":"young person, what can I use in"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":751.74,"endTime":756.48,"body":"relation to my knowledge of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":756.48,"endTime":760.32,"body":"them, my relationship with them,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":756.48,"endTime":760.32,"body":"our shared interests, things"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":760.32,"endTime":763.38,"body":"that we can have a laugh about"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":760.32,"endTime":763.38,"body":"together, or I might just"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":763.41,"endTime":766.08,"body":"totally change the subject and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":763.41,"endTime":766.08,"body":"go, Oh, did you see that thing"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":766.08,"endTime":769.65,"body":"on telly last night and talk"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":766.08,"endTime":769.65,"body":"about something that you know,"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":769.6800000000001,"endTime":775.41,"body":"might engage them. So looking at"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":769.6800000000001,"endTime":775.41,"body":"reducing agitating factors, and"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":775.44,"endTime":781.32,"body":"of calming things and of finding"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":775.44,"endTime":781.32,"body":"a direction forwards. Now, that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":781.32,"endTime":784.86,"body":"doesn't mean that you are"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":781.32,"endTime":784.86,"body":"abandoning the thing that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":784.89,"endTime":787.2,"body":"they're struggling with or that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":784.89,"endTime":787.2,"body":"you're struggling with, because"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":787.2,"endTime":790.2,"body":"you will really want them to do"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":787.2,"endTime":790.2,"body":"it, it just means you're putting"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":790.2,"endTime":794.5500000000001,"body":"it to one side for now to get"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":790.2,"endTime":794.5500000000001,"body":"everybody back into a state of"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":794.5500000000001,"endTime":798.24,"body":"equilibrium. And from that"},{"speaker":"Ruth Fidler","startTime":794.5500000000001,"endTime":798.24,"body":"point, you can plan forwards."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":798.45,"endTime":800.76,"body":"And that was"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":798.45,"endTime":800.76,"body":"Ruth Fiddler giving you an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":800.76,"endTime":803.91,"body":"insight into what feels the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":800.76,"endTime":803.91,"body":"behaviour of people. So you have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":804.12,"endTime":807.75,"body":"a PDA profile. I've put a direct"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":804.12,"endTime":807.75,"body":"link to Ruth's books in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":807.75,"endTime":810.6,"body":"episode description. And of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":807.75,"endTime":810.6,"body":"course, you can always head back"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":810.6,"endTime":814.08,"body":"to Episode 16 To hear the full"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":810.6,"endTime":814.08,"body":"interview. If you'd like more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":814.11,"endTime":817.2,"body":"information on the subject, it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":814.11,"endTime":817.2,"body":"would be time very well"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":817.23,"endTime":820.71,"body":"invested. And that's all we've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":817.23,"endTime":820.71,"body":"got time for on this essentials"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":820.71,"endTime":823.41,"body":"episode. If you've enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":820.71,"endTime":823.41,"body":"listening today, please remember"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":823.41,"endTime":827.49,"body":"to rate and review us It takes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":823.41,"endTime":827.49,"body":"just 30 seconds. And when you do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":827.49,"endTime":830.49,"body":"that it prompts the algorithm to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":827.49,"endTime":830.49,"body":"recommend school behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":830.49,"endTime":834.48,"body":"secrets to other listeners. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":830.49,"endTime":834.48,"body":"that helps us grow the podcast"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":834.66,"endTime":838.08,"body":"and reach other teachers, school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":834.66,"endTime":838.08,"body":"leaders and parents. And while"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":838.08,"endTime":840.99,"body":"you've got your podcast app"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":838.08,"endTime":840.99,"body":"open, Do please remember to hit"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":840.99,"endTime":844.11,"body":"subscribe so you never miss"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":840.99,"endTime":844.11,"body":"another episode. Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":844.11,"endTime":846.9,"body":"listening and I look forward to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":844.11,"endTime":846.9,"body":"seeing you next time on school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":846.9,"endTime":847.9200000000001,"body":"behaviour secrets"}]}