{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.35,"endTime":90.47,"body":"Am I saying take"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.35,"endTime":90.47,"body":"consequences away? No,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":90.5,"endTime":95.0,"body":"absolutely not. But what I am"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":90.5,"endTime":95.0,"body":"saying is, in schools if we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":95.0,"endTime":99.08,"body":"seeing the same kids in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":95.0,"endTime":99.08,"body":"detention every single day, then"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":99.08,"endTime":104.57,"body":"consequences simply aren't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":99.08,"endTime":104.57,"body":"working for them. Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":104.57,"endTime":107.83999999999999,"body":"school behaviour secrets"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":104.57,"endTime":107.83999999999999,"body":"podcast. I'm your host, Simon"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":107.83999999999999,"endTime":111.5,"body":"Currigan. My co host is Emma"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":107.83999999999999,"endTime":111.5,"body":"Shackleton. And we're obsessed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":111.53,"endTime":114.44,"body":"with helping teachers, school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":111.53,"endTime":114.44,"body":"leaders, parents, and of course,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":114.44,"endTime":117.38,"body":"students when classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":114.44,"endTime":117.38,"body":"behaviour gets in the way of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":117.38,"endTime":120.32,"body":"success. We're going to share"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":117.38,"endTime":120.32,"body":"the tried and tested secrets to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":120.32,"endTime":123.10999999999999,"body":"classroom management,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":120.32,"endTime":123.10999999999999,"body":"behavioural special needs, whole"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":123.10999999999999,"endTime":126.28999999999999,"body":"school strategy and more all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":123.10999999999999,"endTime":126.28999999999999,"body":"with the aim of helping your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":126.28999999999999,"endTime":129.41,"body":"students reach their true"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":126.28999999999999,"endTime":129.41,"body":"potential. Plus, we'll be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":129.41,"endTime":132.47,"body":"letting you eavesdrop on our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":129.41,"endTime":132.47,"body":"conversations with thought"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":132.47,"endTime":135.56,"body":"leaders from around the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":132.47,"endTime":135.56,"body":"So you'll get to hear their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":135.56,"endTime":140.09,"body":"latest evidence based strategies"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":135.56,"endTime":140.09,"body":"before anyone else. This is the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":140.09,"endTime":142.45999999999998,"body":"school behaviour secrets"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":140.09,"endTime":142.45999999999998,"body":"podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":142.82999999999998,"endTime":145.32,"body":"Hi there. My name is Simon"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":142.82999999999998,"endTime":145.32,"body":"Currigan. And welcome to this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":145.32,"endTime":148.59,"body":"week's quick fire episode of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":145.32,"endTime":148.59,"body":"school behaviour secrets. It's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":148.59,"endTime":151.86,"body":"half term in England where we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":148.59,"endTime":151.86,"body":"live right now. So if you're off"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":151.86,"endTime":155.7,"body":"this week, I hope you're having"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":151.86,"endTime":155.7,"body":"a well deserved rest you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":155.88,"endTime":159.42,"body":"after all those bank holidays,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":155.88,"endTime":159.42,"body":"in these quickfire episodes, my"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":159.45,"endTime":163.64999999999998,"body":"aim's to give you one idea or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":159.45,"endTime":163.64999999999998,"body":"strategy to think about and use"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":163.68,"endTime":167.7,"body":"with your class or condensed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":163.68,"endTime":167.7,"body":"into an easy to listen to 10"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":167.73,"endTime":171.54,"body":"minute episode. And this week,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":167.73,"endTime":171.54,"body":"I'm going to share one important"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":171.54,"endTime":175.11,"body":"thing to keep in mind when using"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":171.54,"endTime":175.11,"body":"things like consequences and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":175.11,"endTime":178.38,"body":"timeouts with kids that many"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":175.11,"endTime":178.38,"body":"people just forget or don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":178.38,"endTime":182.31,"body":"know, when they're working day"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":178.38,"endTime":182.31,"body":"to day in the classroom. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":182.31,"endTime":186.39,"body":"maybe a lot of the education"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":182.31,"endTime":186.39,"body":"system has forgotten this truth"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":186.39,"endTime":188.85,"body":"too. And hey, if you're a parent"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":186.39,"endTime":188.85,"body":"out there listening to this,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":188.85,"endTime":192.75,"body":"this is going to apply to you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":188.85,"endTime":192.75,"body":"too. And if you're both a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":192.75,"endTime":196.14,"body":"teacher and a parent, well, I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":192.75,"endTime":196.14,"body":"guess that means this episode is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":196.14,"endTime":199.01999999999998,"body":"gonna bring twice as much value"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":196.14,"endTime":199.01999999999998,"body":"as a normal episode."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":198.35,"endTime":203.81,"body":"So first off, let's start by"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":198.35,"endTime":203.81,"body":"thinking about the purpose of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":203.81,"endTime":207.35,"body":"consequences, certainly how"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":203.81,"endTime":207.35,"body":"they're used in school anyway."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":207.74,"endTime":211.91,"body":"And have you actually ever asked"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":207.74,"endTime":211.91,"body":"yourself that question, what's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":211.91,"endTime":216.59,"body":"the purpose of consequences? Why"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":211.91,"endTime":216.59,"body":"do we give kids consequences"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":216.59,"endTime":219.01999999999998,"body":"when they behave in a way"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":216.59,"endTime":219.01999999999998,"body":"that's, say socially"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":219.01999999999998,"endTime":222.59,"body":"unacceptable? Let's take the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":219.01999999999998,"endTime":222.59,"body":"example of a child who keeps"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":222.59,"endTime":226.04,"body":"shouting out in class during"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":222.59,"endTime":226.04,"body":"whole class time, so the other"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":226.04,"endTime":229.91,"body":"children can't get a look in."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":226.04,"endTime":229.91,"body":"Let's call that child Tray."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":230.21,"endTime":233.69,"body":"Well, it turns out, there's a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":230.21,"endTime":233.69,"body":"bunch of reasons why we give"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":233.69,"endTime":238.79,"body":"consequences. The first and most"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":233.69,"endTime":238.79,"body":"obvious is to help the child"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":238.79,"endTime":242.57,"body":"learn that the behaviour they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":238.79,"endTime":242.57,"body":"engaging in shouting out in this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":242.57,"endTime":247.7,"body":"case isn't okay. And by giving"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":242.57,"endTime":247.7,"body":"them a consequence, let's use"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":247.7,"endTime":250.22,"body":"the classic you're going to stop"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":247.7,"endTime":250.22,"body":"in at playtime or have a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":250.22,"endTime":253.7,"body":"detention style consequence."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":250.22,"endTime":253.7,"body":"We're using what behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":253.7,"endTime":258.79999999999995,"body":"analysts call punishment, to try"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":253.7,"endTime":258.79999999999995,"body":"to reduce and extinguish that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":258.79999999999995,"endTime":261.98,"body":"behaviour. So we see the child"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":258.79999999999995,"endTime":261.98,"body":"shout out less and less often as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":261.98,"endTime":265.54999999999995,"body":"a result of the consequence,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":261.98,"endTime":265.54999999999995,"body":"until they don't shout out any"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":265.54999999999995,"endTime":267.95,"body":"more, or at least no more than"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":265.54999999999995,"endTime":267.95,"body":"the other pupils. And as a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":267.95,"endTime":271.64,"body":"reminder, punishment and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":267.95,"endTime":271.64,"body":"negative reinforcement are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":271.64,"endTime":275.93,"body":"completely different things"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":271.64,"endTime":275.93,"body":"because a lot of people mix up"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":275.93,"endTime":278.36,"body":"negative reinforcement and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":275.93,"endTime":278.36,"body":"punishment. And if you want to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":278.36,"endTime":282.86,"body":"know more about that, check out"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":278.36,"endTime":282.86,"body":"episode 77 of the podcast where"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":282.86,"endTime":286.15999999999997,"body":"we go into the detail around"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":282.86,"endTime":286.15999999999997,"body":"that. So that's the first"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":286.15999999999997,"endTime":291.32,"body":"reason. The second reason"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":286.15999999999997,"endTime":291.32,"body":"relates to justice, especially"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":291.32,"endTime":294.62,"body":"when one child has injured"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":291.32,"endTime":294.62,"body":"another child. And that could be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":294.65,"endTime":296.93,"body":"emotionally it could be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":294.65,"endTime":296.93,"body":"socially, it could be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":296.93,"endTime":300.62,"body":"physically, let's say Tray"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":296.93,"endTime":300.62,"body":"deliberately shouts out over"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":300.62,"endTime":303.89,"body":"Billal. And whenever Billal puts"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":300.62,"endTime":303.89,"body":"up his hand to speak, Tray"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":303.91999999999996,"endTime":309.23,"body":"shouts over him after a while,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":303.91999999999996,"endTime":309.23,"body":"Billal is going to feel attacked"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":309.28999999999996,"endTime":313.43,"body":"or offended. And it's going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":309.28999999999996,"endTime":313.43,"body":"create this kind of emotional"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":313.43,"endTime":318.47,"body":"debt between Tray and Billal."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":313.43,"endTime":318.47,"body":"And the consequence is the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":318.47,"endTime":323.53999999999996,"body":"system's way of addressing that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":318.47,"endTime":323.53999999999996,"body":"debt or that imbalance. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":323.6,"endTime":328.4,"body":"Billal feels a justice has been"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":323.6,"endTime":328.4,"body":"served. And the third reason we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":328.4,"endTime":331.03999999999996,"body":"give consequences is that it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":328.4,"endTime":331.03999999999996,"body":"makes it clear to the other"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":331.03999999999996,"endTime":335.93,"body":"children in the class, what the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":331.03999999999996,"endTime":335.93,"body":"classroom expectations are, what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":335.93,"endTime":338.9,"body":"we will tolerate and what we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":335.93,"endTime":338.9,"body":"won't tolerate. So when Tray"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":338.9,"endTime":342.08,"body":"shouts out, you're saying to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":338.9,"endTime":342.08,"body":"other students, this behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":342.23,"endTime":345.71000000000004,"body":"isn't okay, this is where the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":342.23,"endTime":345.71000000000004,"body":"boundary is the line in the sand"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":345.74,"endTime":349.4,"body":"and when people cross it, this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":345.74,"endTime":349.4,"body":"is the reaction or the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":349.4,"endTime":354.14,"body":"consequence you can expect to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":349.4,"endTime":354.14,"body":"receive and that reinforces the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":354.14,"endTime":357.35,"body":"boundary within the group and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":354.14,"endTime":357.35,"body":"boundaries are often what makes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":357.35,"endTime":360.23,"body":"a group of children feel safe."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":357.35,"endTime":360.23,"body":"They know where they stand,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":360.23,"endTime":363.47,"body":"there's emotional and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":360.23,"endTime":363.47,"body":"behavioural containment there."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":363.5,"endTime":368.41999999999996,"body":"Now in this scenario, we are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":363.5,"endTime":368.41999999999996,"body":"assuming the consequence is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":368.41999999999996,"endTime":370.90999999999997,"body":"going to be effective. It's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":368.41999999999996,"endTime":370.90999999999997,"body":"going to work yeah, Tray will"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":370.90999999999997,"endTime":374.36,"body":"learn quickly what happens when"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":370.90999999999997,"endTime":374.36,"body":"he shouts out. He stops in a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":374.36,"endTime":378.67999999999995,"body":"play or has a detention that the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":374.36,"endTime":378.67999999999995,"body":"consequence is unpleasant, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":378.67999999999995,"endTime":382.22,"body":"that he'll stop shouting out to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":378.67999999999995,"endTime":382.22,"body":"avoid the consequence. So far,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":382.25,"endTime":388.18999999999994,"body":"so simple, right? Well, not so"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":382.25,"endTime":388.18999999999994,"body":"fast. It turns out for many"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":388.18999999999994,"endTime":392.41999999999996,"body":"kids, that the consequence by"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":388.18999999999994,"endTime":392.41999999999996,"body":"itself doesn't change behaviour."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":392.48,"endTime":394.82000000000005,"body":"If all we needed to fix"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":392.48,"endTime":394.82000000000005,"body":"behaviour in school were"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":394.82000000000005,"endTime":397.78999999999996,"body":"consequences, then we'd have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":394.82000000000005,"endTime":397.78999999999996,"body":"solved the problem of behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":397.78999999999996,"endTime":400.82000000000005,"body":"in school years ago. And I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":397.78999999999996,"endTime":400.82000000000005,"body":"wouldn't be making this podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":400.88,"endTime":404.24,"body":"And when you think about it, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":400.88,"endTime":404.24,"body":"compare it to your own"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":404.24,"endTime":407.72,"body":"experience in school, this is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":404.24,"endTime":407.72,"body":"completely true, because you see"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":407.72,"endTime":413.15,"body":"the same kids in detention"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":407.72,"endTime":413.15,"body":"again, and again. And again, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":413.15,"endTime":417.89,"body":"see the same kids being kept in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":413.15,"endTime":417.89,"body":"or getting suspensions, over and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":417.91999999999996,"endTime":422.33000000000004,"body":"over week in and week out. So if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":417.91999999999996,"endTime":422.33000000000004,"body":"consequences by themselves were"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":422.33000000000004,"endTime":425.84000000000003,"body":"enough to help children learn"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":422.33000000000004,"endTime":425.84000000000003,"body":"the right way to behave, then"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":425.87,"endTime":430.03999999999996,"body":"these kids wouldn't be caught in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":425.87,"endTime":430.03999999999996,"body":"this endless loop this detention"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":430.03999999999996,"endTime":431.72,"body":"theme version of Groundhog Day."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":431.35,"endTime":434.86,"body":"So what is going on here, I want"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":431.35,"endTime":434.86,"body":"to draw a quick parallel to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":434.86,"endTime":437.55999999999995,"body":"parenting for the moment, I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":434.86,"endTime":437.55999999999995,"body":"found when it comes to parents"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":437.55999999999995,"endTime":440.95000000000005,"body":"who've tried using the strategy"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":437.55999999999995,"endTime":440.95000000000005,"body":"of having a naughty step, they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":440.95000000000005,"endTime":445.12,"body":"fall into two broad categories."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":440.95000000000005,"endTime":445.12,"body":"There's the group that says the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":445.12,"endTime":448.84000000000003,"body":"naughty step approach works, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":445.12,"endTime":448.84000000000003,"body":"the second who say they've had"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":448.84000000000003,"endTime":452.86,"body":"no luck with it at all. Now,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":448.84000000000003,"endTime":452.86,"body":"when you think about it, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":452.86,"endTime":458.95000000000005,"body":"naughty step is nonsense, right?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":452.86,"endTime":458.95000000000005,"body":"Oh, just sitting on a step, help"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":458.95000000000005,"endTime":461.26,"body":"a child learn about social"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":458.95000000000005,"endTime":461.26,"body":"boundaries and positive"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":461.26,"endTime":465.22,"body":"behaviour. If it were that easy"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":461.26,"endTime":465.22,"body":"to teach people to behave in a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":465.22,"endTime":468.52,"body":"positive way. All we'd need to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":465.22,"endTime":468.52,"body":"do to sort out political"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":468.52,"endTime":472.15,"body":"corruption is to have a massive"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":468.52,"endTime":472.15,"body":"adult sized step for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":472.15,"endTime":474.82000000000005,"body":"politicians. And when they do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":472.15,"endTime":474.82000000000005,"body":"the wrong thing, we sit them on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":474.82000000000005,"endTime":477.07000000000005,"body":"the step and over time, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":474.82000000000005,"endTime":477.07000000000005,"body":"problem would resolve itself,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":477.1,"endTime":479.95000000000005,"body":"and we would have a better"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":477.1,"endTime":479.95000000000005,"body":"quality of governance. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":480.01,"endTime":483.54999999999995,"body":"spoiler alert, there is nothing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":480.01,"endTime":483.54999999999995,"body":"magical about the step itself."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":483.58000000000004,"endTime":487.39,"body":"But for the group that says the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":483.58000000000004,"endTime":487.39,"body":"naughty step did work for them."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":487.72,"endTime":490.6,"body":"Here's what I think's going on."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":487.72,"endTime":490.6,"body":"Their child say has a tantrum,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":490.6,"endTime":493.72,"body":"they get frustrated or upset,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":490.6,"endTime":493.72,"body":"and the parent takes the child"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":493.72,"endTime":496.65999999999997,"body":"to the naughty step and leaves"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":493.72,"endTime":496.65999999999997,"body":"them there for a few minutes,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":496.68999999999994,"endTime":501.49,"body":"this time gives the parent space"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":496.68999999999994,"endTime":501.49,"body":"who is probably stressed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":501.49,"endTime":505.03,"body":"themselves time to calm down and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":501.49,"endTime":505.03,"body":"work out in their head, what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":505.03,"endTime":507.58000000000004,"body":"they're going to say next. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":505.03,"endTime":507.58000000000004,"body":"it also gives the child the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":507.58000000000004,"endTime":510.58000000000004,"body":"opportunity to calm down and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":507.58000000000004,"endTime":510.58000000000004,"body":"getting control of their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":510.58000000000004,"endTime":514.45,"body":"emotions again, then the parent"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":510.58000000000004,"endTime":514.45,"body":"returns, both parties are calm."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":514.78,"endTime":517.45,"body":"And the parent has a coaching"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":514.78,"endTime":517.45,"body":"conversation with the child."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":517.48,"endTime":520.84,"body":"They say something like, Look, I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":517.48,"endTime":520.84,"body":"know you were frustrated when"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":520.84,"endTime":524.68,"body":"your sister took your favourite"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":520.84,"endTime":524.68,"body":"toy. But in this house, we don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":524.68,"endTime":527.95,"body":"hit each other. Now, what should"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":524.68,"endTime":527.95,"body":"we have done to have solved that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":527.95,"endTime":531.28,"body":"problem better? and then they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":527.95,"endTime":531.28,"body":"have a quick follow up coaching"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":531.28,"endTime":534.4,"body":"conversation where they taught"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":531.28,"endTime":534.4,"body":"the child through this skill"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":534.52,"endTime":538.6899999999999,"body":"they needed to develop to handle"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":534.52,"endTime":538.6899999999999,"body":"that situation more successfully"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":538.6899999999999,"endTime":541.78,"body":"without resorting to aggression"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":538.6899999999999,"endTime":541.78,"body":"the next time it comes up. For"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":541.78,"endTime":545.05,"body":"the group that says the naughty"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":541.78,"endTime":545.05,"body":"step doesn't work. What I'm"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":545.05,"endTime":548.74,"body":"willing to bet is that in most"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":545.05,"endTime":548.74,"body":"cases, the child is taken to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":548.74,"endTime":554.62,"body":"step, and then the adult walks"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":548.74,"endTime":554.62,"body":"away. But when they return, that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":554.62,"endTime":558.13,"body":"coaching conversation that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":554.62,"endTime":558.13,"body":"teaches that missing underlying"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":558.13,"endTime":561.9399999999999,"body":"skill doesn't happen, or it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":558.13,"endTime":561.9399999999999,"body":"framed in a way that simply"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":561.9399999999999,"endTime":565.12,"body":"isn't very effective. So it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":561.9399999999999,"endTime":565.12,"body":"isn't the step itself, that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":565.12,"endTime":568.36,"body":"makes the difference. It's just"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":565.12,"endTime":568.36,"body":"there, so everyone can get calm."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":568.66,"endTime":571.21,"body":"It's the coaching conversation"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":568.66,"endTime":571.21,"body":"afterwards."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":570.35,"endTime":573.98,"body":"And by the way, I just want to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":570.35,"endTime":573.98,"body":"say I'm assuming here that the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":573.98,"endTime":577.58,"body":"child has the capacity to engage"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":573.98,"endTime":577.58,"body":"in that coaching conversation,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":577.85,"endTime":580.61,"body":"and implement what the parent"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":577.85,"endTime":580.61,"body":"says next time. And it's the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":580.61,"endTime":585.4399999999999,"body":"same in school. If we're doling"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":580.61,"endTime":585.4399999999999,"body":"out detentions, and missed play"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":585.4399999999999,"endTime":590.3,"body":"times and internal exclusions,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":585.4399999999999,"endTime":590.3,"body":"if we as professionals aren't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":590.3,"endTime":592.79,"body":"having those coaching"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":590.3,"endTime":592.79,"body":"conversations with our students"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":593.0,"endTime":596.36,"body":"working out what skill they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":593.0,"endTime":596.36,"body":"missing, which meant they had"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":596.36,"endTime":599.75,"body":"difficulty in that situation,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":596.36,"endTime":599.75,"body":"and then training them to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":599.75,"endTime":603.44,"body":"more successful in the future,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":599.75,"endTime":603.44,"body":"then we're just going to keep"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":603.44,"endTime":607.58,"body":"seeing the same kids over and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":603.44,"endTime":607.58,"body":"over and over caught in this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":607.7,"endTime":611.8100000000001,"body":"endless cycle of behaviour and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":607.7,"endTime":611.8100000000001,"body":"punishment that goes nowhere"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":611.8100000000001,"endTime":614.96,"body":"because they can't break out of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":611.8100000000001,"endTime":614.96,"body":"it, because they don't have the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":614.96,"endTime":618.89,"body":"skills to break out of it. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":614.96,"endTime":618.89,"body":"consequence alone doesn't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":618.89,"endTime":623.0600000000001,"body":"provide that information. Those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":618.89,"endTime":623.0600000000001,"body":"students are in a social"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":623.0600000000001,"endTime":627.98,"body":"situation where they don't have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":623.0600000000001,"endTime":627.98,"body":"the skills they need to do well."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":628.22,"endTime":632.39,"body":"So while consequences may work"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":628.22,"endTime":632.39,"body":"for chosen behaviour, and yes, I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":632.39,"endTime":635.24,"body":"do believe kids do sometimes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":632.39,"endTime":635.24,"body":"engage in chosen behaviour,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":635.24,"endTime":638.9300000000001,"body":"which I know some of you may"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":635.24,"endTime":638.9300000000001,"body":"disagree strongly with. If"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":638.9300000000001,"endTime":641.78,"body":"you're in a situation where"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":638.9300000000001,"endTime":641.78,"body":"you're simply out of your depth"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":641.8100000000001,"endTime":645.02,"body":"and don't have the capacity to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":641.8100000000001,"endTime":645.02,"body":"do well. You're going to find"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":645.02,"endTime":648.74,"body":"yourself in trouble literally"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":645.02,"endTime":648.74,"body":"and figuratively. Without"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":648.74,"endTime":652.16,"body":"coaching, there can be no"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":648.74,"endTime":652.16,"body":"progress. And are we going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":652.16,"endTime":655.07,"body":"have to have the same coaching"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":652.16,"endTime":655.07,"body":"conversation more than once with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":655.07,"endTime":659.48,"body":"that child? Well, you bet,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":655.07,"endTime":659.48,"body":"coaching involves repetition and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":659.48,"endTime":664.0400000000001,"body":"input over time before you see"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":659.48,"endTime":664.0400000000001,"body":"success. And before I get a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":664.0400000000001,"endTime":667.46,"body":"Twitter blast, I'm fully aware"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":664.0400000000001,"endTime":667.46,"body":"in this conversation. I haven't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":667.49,"endTime":671.24,"body":"even covered the aspect of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":667.49,"endTime":671.24,"body":"underlying needs like autism or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":671.24,"endTime":675.74,"body":"trauma or ADHD, where the child"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":671.24,"endTime":675.74,"body":"may not actually at this moment"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":675.74,"endTime":678.98,"body":"be capable of meeting the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":675.74,"endTime":678.98,"body":"expected standard in class will"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":678.98,"endTime":682.52,"body":"be unclear on what the standard"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":678.98,"endTime":682.52,"body":"is or why the standard is there."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":682.61,"endTime":686.51,"body":"Especially if that rule or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":682.61,"endTime":686.51,"body":"expectation is implied and not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":686.51,"endTime":690.59,"body":"made clear and it explicit, or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":686.51,"endTime":690.59,"body":"their brains physically work in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":690.59,"endTime":694.22,"body":"a way that makes it very"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":690.59,"endTime":694.22,"body":"difficult to follow the school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":694.22,"endTime":698.09,"body":"rules, in which case"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":694.22,"endTime":698.09,"body":"consequences are going to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":698.15,"endTime":702.26,"body":"even less effective. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":698.15,"endTime":702.26,"body":"coaching and support strategies"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":702.26,"endTime":706.01,"body":"actually become even more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":702.26,"endTime":706.01,"body":"important."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":706.49,"endTime":708.41,"body":"Am I saying take consequences"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":706.49,"endTime":708.41,"body":"away? No, absolutely not. But"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":708.41,"endTime":715.07,"body":"what I am saying is, in schools,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":708.41,"endTime":715.07,"body":"if we're seeing the same kids in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":715.07,"endTime":720.2,"body":"detention every single day, then"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":715.07,"endTime":720.2,"body":"consequences simply aren't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":720.2,"endTime":724.85,"body":"working for them. It's the old"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":720.2,"endTime":724.85,"body":"Henry Ford quote, If you keep"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":724.85,"endTime":727.46,"body":"doing what you've always done,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":724.85,"endTime":727.46,"body":"you're gonna keep getting what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":727.46,"endTime":730.52,"body":"you've always got. It's like, if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":727.46,"endTime":730.52,"body":"you keep putting diesel in your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":730.52,"endTime":734.03,"body":"car, when you go to the petrol"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":730.52,"endTime":734.03,"body":"station, and every time you turn"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":734.03,"endTime":738.44,"body":"the key, the engine keeps dying,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":734.03,"endTime":738.44,"body":"then maybe it's time to switch"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":738.44,"endTime":741.41,"body":"to petrol, because you've tried"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":738.44,"endTime":741.41,"body":"diesel. And if that was going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":741.41,"endTime":743.75,"body":"work, it would have worked"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":741.41,"endTime":743.75,"body":"already. And I can't help"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":743.75,"endTime":747.71,"body":"feeling that all the time, those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":743.75,"endTime":747.71,"body":"pupils, the ones who were being"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":747.86,"endTime":751.6700000000001,"body":"kept back, you'd have a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":747.86,"endTime":751.6700000000001,"body":"detention season ticket, or the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":751.6700000000001,"endTime":755.48,"body":"time they spend sitting in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":751.6700000000001,"endTime":755.48,"body":"silence in detention or internal"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":755.51,"endTime":759.11,"body":"isolation. Well, wouldn't that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":755.51,"endTime":759.11,"body":"time have been better spent"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":759.2,"endTime":762.14,"body":"teaching them the social and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":759.2,"endTime":762.14,"body":"emotional skills they need to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":762.14,"endTime":766.25,"body":"thrive in school meet their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":762.14,"endTime":766.25,"body":"potential through a positive"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":766.28,"endTime":768.89,"body":"coaching model. It's like that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":766.28,"endTime":768.89,"body":"famous quote by Ross Green that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":768.89,"endTime":773.15,"body":"goes \"kids do well when they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":768.89,"endTime":773.15,"body":"can\" and if he's right, which I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":773.15,"endTime":778.01,"body":"hope he is, it's incumbent on us"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":773.15,"endTime":778.01,"body":"as educational professionals to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":778.0400000000001,"endTime":782.0600000000001,"body":"give them the skills they need"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":778.0400000000001,"endTime":782.0600000000001,"body":"in school and in life, so they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":782.0600000000001,"endTime":785.39,"body":"can do well and avoid more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":782.0600000000001,"endTime":785.39,"body":"detention. And that's what I've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":785.39,"endTime":789.0500000000001,"body":"got to share with you today."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":785.39,"endTime":789.0500000000001,"body":"Remember, don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":789.0500000000001,"endTime":792.83,"body":"subscribe and leave us a rating"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":789.0500000000001,"endTime":792.83,"body":"and review. It really makes a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":792.83,"endTime":795.6800000000001,"body":"difference and it prompts the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":792.83,"endTime":795.6800000000001,"body":"algorithm to recommend school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":795.6800000000001,"endTime":798.5600000000001,"body":"behaviour secrets to other"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":795.6800000000001,"endTime":798.5600000000001,"body":"school leaders, teachers and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":798.5600000000001,"endTime":802.07,"body":"parents so we can grow the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":798.5600000000001,"endTime":802.07,"body":"podcast as it's half term. I'm"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":802.07,"endTime":804.83,"body":"gonna lie back now on the sofa."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":802.07,"endTime":804.83,"body":"I think I'll put on a Columbo"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":804.83,"endTime":809.4200000000001,"body":"rerun, and gently fall asleep."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":804.83,"endTime":809.4200000000001,"body":"They tell you who the murderer"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":809.4200000000001,"endTime":812.15,"body":"is at the start anyway. Next"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":809.4200000000001,"endTime":812.15,"body":"week, we'll go back to our usual"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":812.15,"endTime":815.51,"body":"format. I hope you have a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":812.15,"endTime":815.51,"body":"brilliant week, whether you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":815.57,"endTime":818.96,"body":"off work or in work, and I look"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":815.57,"endTime":818.96,"body":"forward to seeing you next time"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":818.99,"endTime":820.46,"body":"on School Behaviour Secrets."}]}