{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.35,"endTime":89.96,"body":"It's about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.35,"endTime":89.96,"body":"getting children to feel good or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":89.96,"endTime":95.38999999999999,"body":"proud of their actions for their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":89.96,"endTime":95.38999999999999,"body":"own sake. It's about developing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":95.41999999999999,"endTime":98.99,"body":"a values based education and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":95.41999999999999,"endTime":98.99,"body":"curriculum, where children"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":98.99,"endTime":103.1,"body":"recognise the value of kindness"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":98.99,"endTime":103.1,"body":"and holding open doors and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":103.1,"endTime":107.3,"body":"taking turns to speak in class,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":103.1,"endTime":107.3,"body":"because that's respectful and I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":107.3,"endTime":110.41999999999999,"body":"want to be a person who is kind"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":107.3,"endTime":110.41999999999999,"body":"and respects others."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":110.63,"endTime":114.74,"body":"Welcome to the school behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":110.63,"endTime":114.74,"body":"secrets podcast. I'm your host,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":114.74,"endTime":117.8,"body":"Simon Currigan. My co host is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":114.74,"endTime":117.8,"body":"Emma Shackleton and we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":117.83,"endTime":121.46,"body":"obsessed with helping teachers,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":117.83,"endTime":121.46,"body":"school leaders, parents, and of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":121.46,"endTime":124.66999999999999,"body":"course, students when classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":121.46,"endTime":124.66999999999999,"body":"behaviour gets in the way of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":124.66999999999999,"endTime":127.60999999999999,"body":"success. We're going to share"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":124.66999999999999,"endTime":127.60999999999999,"body":"the tried and tested secrets to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":127.60999999999999,"endTime":130.39999999999998,"body":"classroom management,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":127.60999999999999,"endTime":130.39999999999998,"body":"behavioural Special Needs, whole"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":130.39999999999998,"endTime":133.60999999999999,"body":"school strategy and more all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":130.39999999999998,"endTime":133.60999999999999,"body":"with the aim of helping your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":133.60999999999999,"endTime":137.03,"body":"students reach their true"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":133.60999999999999,"endTime":137.03,"body":"potential Plus, we'll be letting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":137.03,"endTime":139.76,"body":"you eavesdrop on our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":137.03,"endTime":139.76,"body":"conversations with thought"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":139.76,"endTime":143.48,"body":"leaders from around the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":139.76,"endTime":143.48,"body":"So you'll get to hear the latest"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":143.48,"endTime":147.82999999999998,"body":"evidence based strategies before"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":143.48,"endTime":147.82999999999998,"body":"anyone else. This is the school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":147.82999999999998,"endTime":149.75,"body":"behaviour secrets podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":149.99,"endTime":153.53,"body":"Hi there, Simon Currigan here"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":149.99,"endTime":153.53,"body":"hope you're well. And welcome to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":153.53,"endTime":156.92,"body":"the last quickfire episode of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":153.53,"endTime":156.92,"body":"school behaviour secrets for the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":156.92,"endTime":160.1,"body":"summer. In the shorter Quick"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":156.92,"endTime":160.1,"body":"Fire episodes, which we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":160.1,"endTime":163.28,"body":"published during the holidays,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":160.1,"endTime":163.28,"body":"I've been sharing a technique or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":163.28,"endTime":166.28,"body":"an insight or a strategy that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":163.28,"endTime":166.28,"body":"can have an impact for the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":166.28,"endTime":170.89999999999998,"body":"children that you work with all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":166.28,"endTime":170.89999999999998,"body":"in 10 minutes or less. Next"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":170.89999999999998,"endTime":173.20999999999998,"body":"week, we'll be going back to our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":170.89999999999998,"endTime":173.20999999999998,"body":"standard school behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":173.20999999999998,"endTime":177.26,"body":"secrets format, as children"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":173.20999999999998,"endTime":177.26,"body":"return to school in England, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":177.26,"endTime":180.53,"body":"in this week, I wanted to look"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":177.26,"endTime":180.53,"body":"at which is more powerful for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":180.53,"endTime":184.51999999999998,"body":"motivating your students. Is it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":180.53,"endTime":184.51999999999998,"body":"extrinsic motivation, or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":184.51999999999998,"endTime":185.99,"body":"intrinsic motivation?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":185.35,"endTime":201.07,"body":"And I've got to say, recently,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":185.35,"endTime":201.07,"body":"I've changed my view on this,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":190.51,"endTime":292.65999999999997,"body":"Anyway, back to punishments. A"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":190.51,"endTime":292.65999999999997,"body":"punishment is an extrinsic way"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":201.332,"endTime":217.577,"body":"and I'll explain why later in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":201.332,"endTime":217.577,"body":"the episode. First of all, let's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":217.839,"endTime":231.726,"body":"look at what extrinsic"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":217.839,"endTime":231.726,"body":"motivation actually is and how"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":231.988,"endTime":248.495,"body":"it works. Because it's the form"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":231.988,"endTime":248.495,"body":"of motivation that's easiest to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":248.757,"endTime":265.52599999999995,"body":"understand and to implement. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":248.757,"endTime":265.52599999999995,"body":"it's the most widely understood"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":265.788,"endTime":280.46000000000004,"body":"extrinsic means from the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":265.788,"endTime":280.46000000000004,"body":"outside. So when we think about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":280.722,"endTime":296.967,"body":"extrinsic motivation, what we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":280.722,"endTime":296.967,"body":"thinking about here really is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":294.07,"endTime":303.43,"body":"of discouraging an inappropriate"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":294.07,"endTime":303.43,"body":"or unacceptable behaviour."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":297.229,"endTime":312.688,"body":"good old fashioned carrot and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":297.229,"endTime":312.688,"body":"stick. And it's the part that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":303.46000000000004,"endTime":306.97,"body":"Commonly in schools. This looks"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":303.46000000000004,"endTime":306.97,"body":"like detentions or internal"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":306.97,"endTime":311.16999999999996,"body":"isolation or being kept in a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":306.97,"endTime":311.16999999999996,"body":"playtime or losing part of your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":311.16999999999996,"endTime":314.28999999999996,"body":"break an adult raising their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":311.16999999999996,"endTime":314.28999999999996,"body":"voice or telling a child off an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":312.95,"endTime":329.457,"body":"most school behaviour policies"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":312.95,"endTime":329.457,"body":"focus on. 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The idea being that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":324.46000000000004,"endTime":329.11,"body":"if a child knows an unpleasant"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":329.11,"endTime":332.28999999999996,"body":"consequences waiting for them,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":329.11,"endTime":332.28999999999996,"body":"if they do the wrong thing, they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":329.719,"endTime":345.178,"body":"that most school behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":329.719,"endTime":345.178,"body":"policies exclusively focus on in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":332.28999999999996,"endTime":335.79999999999995,"body":"are less likely to do it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":332.28999999999996,"endTime":335.79999999999995,"body":"Everything we've talked about so"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":335.79999999999995,"endTime":339.28,"body":"far are extrinsic motivators,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":335.79999999999995,"endTime":339.28,"body":"positive ones, and negative"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":339.28,"endTime":342.4,"body":"ones. And behaviour policies"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":339.28,"endTime":342.4,"body":"tend to be full of them."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":342.7,"endTime":346.65999999999997,"body":"extrinsic motivators are easy to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":342.7,"endTime":346.65999999999997,"body":"explain, especially to parents"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":345.43999999999994,"endTime":362.20899999999995,"body":"the classroom, extrinsic systems"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":345.43999999999994,"endTime":362.20899999999995,"body":"look like rewards. When kids do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":346.65999999999997,"endTime":351.52,"body":"or people like Ofsted, who"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":346.65999999999997,"endTime":351.52,"body":"intuitively understand extrinsic"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":351.52,"endTime":355.57000000000005,"body":"motivation because it's the way"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":351.52,"endTime":355.57000000000005,"body":"that most adults are motivated"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":355.57000000000005,"endTime":359.38,"body":"in society, especially since"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":355.57000000000005,"endTime":359.38,"body":"Victorian times, essentially, do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":359.38,"endTime":362.43999999999994,"body":"your job and get paid money"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":359.38,"endTime":362.43999999999994,"body":"being the extrinsic motivator"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":362.43999999999994,"endTime":367.09000000000003,"body":"there or break the law and go to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":362.43999999999994,"endTime":367.09000000000003,"body":"prison. Modern research has cast"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":362.471,"endTime":378.19100000000003,"body":"the right thing. They put up"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":362.471,"endTime":378.19100000000003,"body":"their hand to answer a question"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":367.09000000000003,"endTime":371.02,"body":"doubt on how well extrinsic"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":367.09000000000003,"endTime":371.02,"body":"motivators work, just to take"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":371.02,"endTime":375.03999999999996,"body":"that last example of going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":371.02,"endTime":375.03999999999996,"body":"prison if extrinsic motivation"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":375.03999999999996,"endTime":378.73,"body":"was the answer, all our prisons"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":375.03999999999996,"endTime":378.73,"body":"would be empty because potential"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":378.453,"endTime":394.96000000000004,"body":"and they wait politely, and they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":378.453,"endTime":394.96000000000004,"body":"are awarded a house point or a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":378.73,"endTime":381.54999999999995,"body":"criminals would be put off"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":378.73,"endTime":381.54999999999995,"body":"committing crimes by the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":381.54999999999995,"endTime":384.85,"body":"consequences of their actions"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":381.54999999999995,"endTime":384.85,"body":"going to prison. And clearly"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":384.85,"endTime":388.15,"body":"that doesn't work because"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":384.85,"endTime":388.15,"body":"prisons off full to the brim"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":388.15,"endTime":390.82000000000005,"body":"with prisoners. And we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":388.15,"endTime":390.82000000000005,"body":"building more prison cells, not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":390.82000000000005,"endTime":395.04999999999995,"body":"less of them. This research also"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":390.82000000000005,"endTime":395.04999999999995,"body":"states that extrinsic motivation"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":395.08000000000004,"endTime":398.47,"body":"doesn't tend to be very long"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":395.08000000000004,"endTime":398.47,"body":"lasting, bringing it back to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":395.222,"endTime":411.20500000000004,"body":"dojo or a token, or they get a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":395.222,"endTime":411.20500000000004,"body":"sticker, they get a thing from"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":398.47,"endTime":401.32000000000005,"body":"schools, these systems will"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":398.47,"endTime":401.32000000000005,"body":"usually have a big impact in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":401.32000000000005,"endTime":405.78999999999996,"body":"short term. But once you move"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":401.32000000000005,"endTime":405.78999999999996,"body":"into the mid to long term, kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":405.78999999999996,"endTime":408.1,"body":"get bored of them, and they have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":405.78999999999996,"endTime":408.1,"body":"less and less impact."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":408.25,"endTime":411.22,"body":"So you introduce house points"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":408.25,"endTime":411.22,"body":"for politeness, say in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":411.22,"endTime":414.90999999999997,"body":"autumn term, and you have kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":411.22,"endTime":414.90999999999997,"body":"falling over themselves to open"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":411.467,"endTime":427.188,"body":"outside themselves to reinforce"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":411.467,"endTime":427.188,"body":"that positive behaviour, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":414.90999999999997,"endTime":418.72,"body":"the door for you. By summer"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":414.90999999999997,"endTime":418.72,"body":"term, they're running off down"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":418.72,"endTime":421.96000000000004,"body":"the corridor and letting the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":418.72,"endTime":421.96000000000004,"body":"door slam in your face. And when"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":421.96000000000004,"endTime":424.36,"body":"you pull them up and ask them"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":421.96000000000004,"endTime":424.36,"body":"look, Are you motivated to get a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":424.36,"endTime":427.39,"body":"house point because you open the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":424.36,"endTime":427.39,"body":"door? Theyre gonna shrug their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":427.39,"endTime":430.51,"body":"shoulders and say, Nah, it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":427.39,"endTime":430.51,"body":"just a house point. And then you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":427.45000000000005,"endTime":443.69500000000005,"body":"encourage them to repeat it in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":427.45000000000005,"endTime":443.69500000000005,"body":"the future. So when we see kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":430.51,"endTime":433.63,"body":"have to offer them two points to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":430.51,"endTime":433.63,"body":"hold open the door. And that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":433.63,"endTime":436.33000000000004,"body":"works for a bit, and then you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":433.63,"endTime":436.33000000000004,"body":"need three house points. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":436.33000000000004,"endTime":438.82000000000005,"body":"then what you've got there is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":436.33000000000004,"endTime":438.82000000000005,"body":"house point inflation. But"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":438.82000000000005,"endTime":439.63,"body":"that's another problem."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":439.35,"endTime":443.22,"body":"Another issue is that these"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":439.35,"endTime":443.22,"body":"systems tend to encourage tit"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":443.22,"endTime":447.27,"body":"for tat behaviour, or hold open"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":443.22,"endTime":447.27,"body":"the door. But I'm only doing it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":443.957,"endTime":458.63,"body":"putting stickers on a happy face"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":443.957,"endTime":458.63,"body":"chart, that's extrinsic"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":447.27,"endTime":450.84000000000003,"body":"for a house point or a dojo or a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":447.27,"endTime":450.84000000000003,"body":"sticker, or whatever I'm being"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":450.87,"endTime":455.34000000000003,"body":"offered today. And when the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":450.87,"endTime":455.34000000000003,"body":"reward goes away, or get stale,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":455.46000000000004,"endTime":459.84000000000003,"body":"so does the behaviour. And it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":455.46000000000004,"endTime":459.84000000000003,"body":"skews why people do things. The"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":458.89199999999994,"endTime":474.874,"body":"motivation. So is hot chocolate"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":458.89199999999994,"endTime":474.874,"body":"with the head, tokens you can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":459.84000000000003,"endTime":464.30999999999995,"body":"good news is the research says"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":459.84000000000003,"endTime":464.30999999999995,"body":"that intrinsic motivation is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":464.30999999999995,"endTime":467.78999999999996,"body":"potentially the answer to this."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":464.30999999999995,"endTime":467.78999999999996,"body":"This is when kids do the right"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":467.78999999999996,"endTime":472.43999999999994,"body":"thing for internal reasons, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":467.78999999999996,"endTime":472.43999999999994,"body":"way it feels on the inside doing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":472.43999999999994,"endTime":476.54999999999995,"body":"the right thing, because, well,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":472.43999999999994,"endTime":476.54999999999995,"body":"it's the right thing. Holding"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":475.13599999999997,"endTime":491.119,"body":"exchange for things in a school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":475.13599999999997,"endTime":491.119,"body":"shop, a postcard sent home to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":476.54999999999995,"endTime":480.15,"body":"open the door is aligned with my"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":476.54999999999995,"endTime":480.15,"body":"value of kindness, which makes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":480.15,"endTime":484.08000000000004,"body":"me feel good inside. When I'm"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":480.15,"endTime":484.08000000000004,"body":"motivated that way. I don't need"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":484.08000000000004,"endTime":486.87,"body":"a sticker from the adult to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":484.08000000000004,"endTime":486.87,"body":"encourage me, most school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":486.87,"endTime":490.02,"body":"behaviour policies don't have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":486.87,"endTime":490.02,"body":"very much at all to say about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":490.02,"endTime":493.55999999999995,"body":"intrinsic motivation. In fact,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":490.02,"endTime":493.55999999999995,"body":"most school behaviour policies"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":491.381,"endTime":507.102,"body":"tell your parents about good"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":491.381,"endTime":507.102,"body":"behaviour. These are all things"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":493.65,"endTime":498.33000000000004,"body":"say nothing about intrinsic"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":493.65,"endTime":498.33000000000004,"body":"motivation. And that's because"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":498.36,"endTime":502.02,"body":"it's harder to explain. It's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":498.36,"endTime":502.02,"body":"about getting children to feel"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":502.02,"endTime":507.6,"body":"good or proud of their actions"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":502.02,"endTime":507.6,"body":"for their own sake. It's about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":507.36400000000003,"endTime":522.561,"body":"from outside done to the student"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":507.36400000000003,"endTime":522.561,"body":"by the adult to encourage"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":507.6,"endTime":511.28999999999996,"body":"developing a values based"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":507.6,"endTime":511.28999999999996,"body":"education and curriculum where"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":511.28999999999996,"endTime":515.76,"body":"children recognise the value of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":511.28999999999996,"endTime":515.76,"body":"kindness and holding open doors,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":515.91,"endTime":519.27,"body":"and taking turns to speak in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":515.91,"endTime":519.27,"body":"class, because that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":519.27,"endTime":522.96,"body":"respectful. And I want to be a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":519.27,"endTime":522.96,"body":"person who is kind and respects"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":522.823,"endTime":536.447,"body":"positive behaviour. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":522.823,"endTime":536.447,"body":"technically adult praise and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":522.99,"endTime":526.77,"body":"others. And actually, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":522.99,"endTime":526.77,"body":"the truth is when you think"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":526.8,"endTime":530.64,"body":"about it, most kids who come to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":526.8,"endTime":530.64,"body":"school and behave, if you ask"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":530.64,"endTime":533.79,"body":"them, Why do they do that? They"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":530.64,"endTime":533.79,"body":"might say because sir, or miss"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":533.79,"endTime":537.6,"body":"will give me a sticker or Dojo"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":533.79,"endTime":537.6,"body":"or a insert your reward here."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":536.71,"endTime":552.954,"body":"recognition is also a form of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":536.71,"endTime":552.954,"body":"extrinsic motivation to although"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":538.02,"endTime":541.74,"body":"But actually, without those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":538.02,"endTime":541.74,"body":"rewards, those kids would have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":541.74,"endTime":544.89,"body":"done it anyway. Because that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":541.74,"endTime":544.89,"body":"the kind of kids they are."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":544.92,"endTime":548.88,"body":"Intrinsic motivation is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":544.92,"endTime":548.88,"body":"powerful, because it feeds"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":548.88,"endTime":553.98,"body":"itself. And research shows that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":548.88,"endTime":553.98,"body":"it is long lasting, if you can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":553.216,"endTime":568.413,"body":"that's an interesting one. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":553.216,"endTime":568.413,"body":"I'll come back to that in a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":553.98,"endTime":558.12,"body":"set it up. It does work in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":553.98,"endTime":558.12,"body":"medium to long term and it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":558.12,"endTime":559.95,"body":"doesn't fizzle out quickly."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":560.43,"endTime":563.55,"body":"I mentioned adult praise and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":560.43,"endTime":563.55,"body":"recognition earlier. And that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":563.55,"endTime":566.58,"body":"really interesting, because"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":563.55,"endTime":566.58,"body":"although technically, it's an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":566.58,"endTime":570.51,"body":"extrinsic motivation, it comes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":566.58,"endTime":570.51,"body":"from the outside. What it does"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":568.675,"endTime":583.872,"body":"minute. But extrinsic systems"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":568.675,"endTime":583.872,"body":"aren't just rewards, they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":570.51,"endTime":573.57,"body":"is it it creates a warm, fuzzy"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":570.51,"endTime":573.57,"body":"feeling on the inside of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":573.57,"endTime":578.4,"body":"child that actually acts like"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":573.57,"endTime":578.4,"body":"intrinsic motivation. So for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":578.4,"endTime":581.88,"body":"some years now, I've been"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":578.4,"endTime":581.88,"body":"pushing the power of intrinsic"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":581.88,"endTime":586.23,"body":"motivation. However, I've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":581.88,"endTime":586.23,"body":"changed my mind. And I'm not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":584.134,"endTime":598.545,"body":"also punishments. And by the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":584.134,"endTime":598.545,"body":"way, if you think negative"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":586.23,"endTime":590.43,"body":"saying that intrinsic works"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":586.23,"endTime":590.43,"body":"better than extrinsic. It's more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":590.43,"endTime":594.75,"body":"nuanced than that. I'm kind of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":590.43,"endTime":594.75,"body":"saying it boils down to the kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":594.78,"endTime":597.45,"body":"you've got in front of you."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":594.78,"endTime":597.45,"body":"Because truth be told, depending"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":597.45,"endTime":600.27,"body":"on the action, we're being"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":597.45,"endTime":600.27,"body":"encouraged to take, we're all a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":598.807,"endTime":615.576,"body":"reinforcement is the same thing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":598.807,"endTime":615.576,"body":"as a punishment or a politically"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":600.27,"endTime":605.28,"body":"mixture of intrinsic and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":600.27,"endTime":605.28,"body":"extrinsically motivated people."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":605.49,"endTime":609.12,"body":"And I've seen perfectly good"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":605.49,"endTime":609.12,"body":"extrinsic motivation systems in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":609.12,"endTime":612.09,"body":"schools that have been"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":609.12,"endTime":612.09,"body":"impactful, certainly in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":612.09,"endTime":615.4200000000001,"body":"short term, that were popular"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":612.09,"endTime":615.4200000000001,"body":"with students and teachers and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":615.4200000000001,"endTime":619.0500000000001,"body":"parents. So why move to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":615.4200000000001,"endTime":619.0500000000001,"body":"something else, the golden rule"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":615.8380000000001,"endTime":631.82,"body":"correct term for a punishment."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":615.8380000000001,"endTime":631.82,"body":"It isn't. Head back to Episode"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":619.0500000000001,"endTime":623.4,"body":"of school behaviour is, if it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":619.0500000000001,"endTime":623.4,"body":"working, don't muck around with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":623.4,"endTime":627.78,"body":"it. We do have to accept the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":623.4,"endTime":627.78,"body":"strengths and limitations of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":627.78,"endTime":630.9,"body":"what we're doing though, for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":627.78,"endTime":630.9,"body":"extrinsic systems, we have to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":630.9,"endTime":634.65,"body":"bear in mind that they will get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":630.9,"endTime":634.65,"body":"stale, and they will have to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":632.082,"endTime":644.659,"body":"77, titled Negative"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":632.082,"endTime":644.659,"body":"Reinforcement isn't what you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":634.65,"endTime":638.25,"body":"change or they will become"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":634.65,"endTime":638.25,"body":"ineffective, don't fight that,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":638.28,"endTime":642.87,"body":"know it and harness it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":638.28,"endTime":642.87,"body":"Intrinsic motivation is harder"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":642.87,"endTime":645.96,"body":"to do. It's harder to implement."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":642.87,"endTime":645.96,"body":"It's harder to explain in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":644.921,"endTime":653.83,"body":"think it is, for more information."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":645.96,"endTime":649.2900000000001,"body":"behaviour policy, or to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":645.96,"endTime":649.2900000000001,"body":"inspectors or to parents, but it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":649.2900000000001,"endTime":653.82,"body":"is long lasting. Both can be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":649.2900000000001,"endTime":653.82,"body":"powerful in different ways."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":653.35,"endTime":657.73,"body":"The answer of what's best for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":653.35,"endTime":657.73,"body":"you, the listener, is to look at"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":657.73,"endTime":661.87,"body":"how your kids in classes are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":657.73,"endTime":661.87,"body":"naturally motivated, and start"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":661.9,"endTime":665.6800000000001,"body":"from there. And the best answer"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":661.9,"endTime":665.6800000000001,"body":"in your school is likely to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":666.01,"endTime":670.03,"body":"use a bit of both. Don't let"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":666.01,"endTime":670.03,"body":"motivational dogma draw you too"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":670.03,"endTime":673.69,"body":"far in any one direction. If you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":670.03,"endTime":673.69,"body":"found this episode, interesting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":673.69,"endTime":677.38,"body":"or thought provoking, I've got"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":673.69,"endTime":677.38,"body":"one quick favour to ask. Please"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":677.38,"endTime":680.71,"body":"spend 30 seconds giving us an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":677.38,"endTime":680.71,"body":"honest rating and review on your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":680.71,"endTime":684.0400000000001,"body":"podcast app and that prompts the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":680.71,"endTime":684.0400000000001,"body":"algorithm to share school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":684.0400000000001,"endTime":686.6800000000001,"body":"behaviour secrets with other"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":684.0400000000001,"endTime":686.6800000000001,"body":"teachers, school leaders and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":686.6800000000001,"endTime":690.91,"body":"parents who would find the show"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":686.6800000000001,"endTime":690.91,"body":"useful. I'll be back with a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":690.91,"endTime":694.6,"body":"standard episode next week with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":690.91,"endTime":694.6,"body":"Emma Shackleton my co-host."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":694.78,"endTime":698.2,"body":"Until then, have a brilliant"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":694.78,"endTime":698.2,"body":"week. Thank you for listening."}]}