{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":87.35,"endTime":90.08,"body":"Now the length"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":87.35,"endTime":90.08,"body":"of the feedback loop is really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":90.08,"endTime":94.1,"body":"important here. The shorter the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":90.08,"endTime":94.1,"body":"loop, the more likely your brain"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":94.1,"endTime":98.36,"body":"is to connect the action with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":94.1,"endTime":98.36,"body":"the reward. short feedback loops"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":98.36,"endTime":101.89999999999999,"body":"mean that the action is quickly"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":98.36,"endTime":101.89999999999999,"body":"followed up by the reward and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":101.89999999999999,"endTime":105.94999999999999,"body":"therefore likely to link the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":101.89999999999999,"endTime":105.94999999999999,"body":"action together with the reward."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":106.49,"endTime":110.66,"body":"Longer feedback loops mean that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":106.49,"endTime":110.66,"body":"we might receive a reward, but"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":110.66,"endTime":114.5,"body":"because time has passed since"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":110.66,"endTime":114.5,"body":"the action, we don't always link"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":114.5,"endTime":117.32,"body":"the action and the reward"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":114.5,"endTime":117.32,"body":"directly together."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":117.67999999999999,"endTime":120.28999999999999,"body":"Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":117.67999999999999,"endTime":120.28999999999999,"body":"School Behaviour Secrets"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":120.28999999999999,"endTime":123.67999999999999,"body":"podcast. I'm your host, Simon"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":120.28999999999999,"endTime":123.67999999999999,"body":"Currigan. My co host is Emma"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":123.71,"endTime":127.31,"body":"Shackleton. And we're obsessed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":123.71,"endTime":127.31,"body":"with helping teachers, school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":127.31,"endTime":130.25,"body":"leaders, parents, and of course,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":127.31,"endTime":130.25,"body":"students. When classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":130.25,"endTime":133.16,"body":"behaviour gets in the way of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":130.25,"endTime":133.16,"body":"success, we're going to share"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":133.16,"endTime":135.76999999999998,"body":"the tried and tested secrets to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":133.16,"endTime":135.76999999999998,"body":"classroom management,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":135.8,"endTime":139.31,"body":"behavioural Special Needs whole"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":135.8,"endTime":139.31,"body":"school strategy and more all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":139.31,"endTime":142.13,"body":"with the aim of helping your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":139.31,"endTime":142.13,"body":"students reach their true"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":142.13,"endTime":145.55,"body":"potential. Plus, we'll be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":142.13,"endTime":145.55,"body":"letting you eavesdrop on our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":145.55,"endTime":148.67,"body":"conversations with thought"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":145.55,"endTime":148.67,"body":"leaders from around the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":148.82,"endTime":151.79,"body":"So you'll get to hear their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":148.82,"endTime":151.79,"body":"latest evidence based strategies"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":151.79,"endTime":155.95999999999998,"body":"before anyone else. This is the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":151.79,"endTime":155.95999999999998,"body":"School Behaviour Secrets"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":155.95999999999998,"endTime":156.76999999999998,"body":"podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":157.88,"endTime":161.32999999999998,"body":"Hi there, Simon Currigan here"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":157.88,"endTime":161.32999999999998,"body":"and welcome to this bite sized"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":161.36,"endTime":165.11,"body":"essentials episode of School"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":161.36,"endTime":165.11,"body":"Behaviour Secrets. In this mini"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":165.11,"endTime":168.89,"body":"essentials episode, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":165.11,"endTime":168.89,"body":"share one important bite sized"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":168.89,"endTime":172.22,"body":"piece of information or a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":168.89,"endTime":172.22,"body":"helpful strategy with you from a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":172.22,"endTime":176.75,"body":"previous interview episode that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":172.22,"endTime":176.75,"body":"you can use to shape your day to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":176.75,"endTime":180.01999999999998,"body":"day classroom practice. It just"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":176.75,"endTime":180.01999999999998,"body":"helps keep these important"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":180.01999999999998,"endTime":183.76999999999998,"body":"concepts top of mind when we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":180.01999999999998,"endTime":183.76999999999998,"body":"constantly being bombarded with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":183.76999999999998,"endTime":187.31,"body":"new information. In this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":183.76999999999998,"endTime":187.31,"body":"essentials episode, my co host"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":187.31,"endTime":191.20999999999998,"body":"Emma and I explore the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":187.31,"endTime":191.20999999999998,"body":"surprising science of reward"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":191.20999999999998,"endTime":195.32,"body":"systems, how to use them, when"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":191.20999999999998,"endTime":195.32,"body":"to use them, and how long you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":195.32,"endTime":199.88,"body":"can expect them to work for so"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":195.32,"endTime":199.88,"body":"you know exactly how to increase"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":199.88,"endTime":206.03,"body":"pupil motivation in your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":199.88,"endTime":206.03,"body":"classroom. Today, we're going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":206.03,"endTime":210.05,"body":"look at how extrinsic rewards"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":206.03,"endTime":210.05,"body":"can have the opposite effect to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":210.05,"endTime":214.39999999999998,"body":"the one we intend how they can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":210.05,"endTime":214.39999999999998,"body":"demotivate or crush the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":214.39999999999998,"endTime":215.78,"body":"intrinsic desire to do the right"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":214.39999999999998,"endTime":215.78,"body":"thing."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":215.79999999999998,"endTime":218.38,"body":"And we're going"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":215.79999999999998,"endTime":218.38,"body":"to start by looking at something"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":218.38,"endTime":222.88,"body":"called feedback loops, which are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":218.38,"endTime":222.88,"body":"integral to how rewards work."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":223.03,"endTime":225.7,"body":"Human beings are more"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":223.03,"endTime":225.7,"body":"complicated than what we're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":225.7,"endTime":229.54,"body":"about to describe. But we're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":225.7,"endTime":229.54,"body":"going to use a simple model so"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":229.54,"endTime":232.84,"body":"that we can communicate the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":229.54,"endTime":232.84,"body":"ideas behind the psychology."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":233.38,"endTime":237.19,"body":"When we use rewards. We're using"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":233.38,"endTime":237.19,"body":"something called operant"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":237.19,"endTime":240.54999999999998,"body":"conditioning. And this was"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":237.19,"endTime":240.54999999999998,"body":"developed by BF Skinner from the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":240.57999999999998,"endTime":242.59,"body":"1940s onwards."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":242.68,"endTime":245.62,"body":"So very simply,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":242.68,"endTime":245.62,"body":"the process goes like this. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":245.62,"endTime":249.64,"body":"we've got a rat in a box. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":245.62,"endTime":249.64,"body":"inside the box, there is a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":249.64,"endTime":253.6,"body":"lever. And BF Skinner was"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":249.64,"endTime":253.6,"body":"interested to find out if the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":253.6,"endTime":257.35,"body":"rat could learn that when it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":253.6,"endTime":257.35,"body":"presses lever, a little reward"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":257.35,"endTime":260.47,"body":"drops out of a feeding tube to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":257.35,"endTime":260.47,"body":"encourage the rat to press the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":260.47,"endTime":264.1,"body":"lever again. And that did indeed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":260.47,"endTime":264.1,"body":"happen. The rat learned to press"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":264.1,"endTime":267.37,"body":"the lever when it was hungry to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":264.1,"endTime":267.37,"body":"get a reward. And what happens"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":267.4,"endTime":271.12,"body":"at the chemical level is when"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":267.4,"endTime":271.12,"body":"the rat presses a lever, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":271.12,"endTime":273.78999999999996,"body":"that little bit of food comes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":271.12,"endTime":273.78999999999996,"body":"down the feeding tube in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":273.78999999999996,"endTime":277.39,"body":"rats brain, a chemical called"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":273.78999999999996,"endTime":277.39,"body":"dopamine is released. Now the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":277.39,"endTime":281.28999999999996,"body":"job of dopamine is to say, Well,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":277.39,"endTime":281.28999999999996,"body":"that was interesting, pay"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":281.28999999999996,"endTime":284.53,"body":"attention to what happened, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":281.28999999999996,"endTime":284.53,"body":"press the lever and you got a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":284.53,"endTime":287.59000000000003,"body":"reward. And that forms the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":284.53,"endTime":287.59000000000003,"body":"feedback loop. There is a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":287.59000000000003,"endTime":290.68,"body":"trigger the rats in a box and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":287.59000000000003,"endTime":290.68,"body":"it's feeling hungry. It sees the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":290.68,"endTime":294.31,"body":"lever, it engages in a behavior,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":290.68,"endTime":294.31,"body":"which is pressing the lever and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":294.31,"endTime":298.24,"body":"a reward comes down, which gives"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":294.31,"endTime":298.24,"body":"the rat a hit of dopamine. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":298.24,"endTime":301.48,"body":"our brains are wired exactly the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":298.24,"endTime":301.48,"body":"same way. When we engage in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":301.48,"endTime":304.81,"body":"behaviours. If we get some form"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":301.48,"endTime":304.81,"body":"of reward, we get a hit of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":304.81,"endTime":307.45,"body":"dopamine as well, that little"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":304.81,"endTime":307.45,"body":"chemical messenger that says"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":307.57,"endTime":310.29999999999995,"body":"that was interesting. Pay"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":307.57,"endTime":310.29999999999995,"body":"attention to it. Now what that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":310.29999999999995,"endTime":314.04999999999995,"body":"dopamine will do is when we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":310.29999999999995,"endTime":314.04999999999995,"body":"in that situation next time,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":314.08,"endTime":316.99,"body":"we've started to form a link"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":314.08,"endTime":316.99,"body":"between the behaviour and the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":316.99,"endTime":320.74,"body":"reward, so it makes it more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":316.99,"endTime":320.74,"body":"likely that we're going to use"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":320.74,"endTime":323.65,"body":"that behaviour again, we engage"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":320.74,"endTime":323.65,"body":"in that behaviour again."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":323.68,"endTime":326.35,"body":"Now the length"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":323.68,"endTime":326.35,"body":"of the feedback loop is really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":326.35,"endTime":330.34000000000003,"body":"important here. The shorter the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":326.35,"endTime":330.34000000000003,"body":"loop, the more likely your brain"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":330.34000000000003,"endTime":334.6,"body":"is to connect the action with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":330.34000000000003,"endTime":334.6,"body":"the reward. short feedback loops"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":334.6,"endTime":338.14,"body":"mean that the action is quickly"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":334.6,"endTime":338.14,"body":"followed up by the reward and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":338.14,"endTime":342.19,"body":"therefore likely to link the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":338.14,"endTime":342.19,"body":"action together with the reward."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":342.76,"endTime":346.9,"body":"Longer feedback loops mean that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":342.76,"endTime":346.9,"body":"we might receive a reward. But"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":346.9,"endTime":350.77,"body":"because time has passed since"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":346.9,"endTime":350.77,"body":"the action, we don't always link"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":350.77,"endTime":354.01,"body":"the action and the reward"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":350.77,"endTime":354.01,"body":"directly together. So for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":354.01,"endTime":357.88,"body":"example, a child receiving a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":354.01,"endTime":357.88,"body":"sticker at the end of the day"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":357.88,"endTime":361.87,"body":"for good sitting that they did"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":357.88,"endTime":361.87,"body":"in assembly this morning. might"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":361.87,"endTime":365.98,"body":"be too long a feedback loop for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":361.87,"endTime":365.98,"body":"the child to associate the good"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":365.98,"endTime":369.13,"body":"sitting with getting the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":365.98,"endTime":369.13,"body":"sticker. I'm sure we've all been"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":369.13,"endTime":372.66999999999996,"body":"in a situation where we've asked"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":369.13,"endTime":372.66999999999996,"body":"a child whether it's our own or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":372.66999999999996,"endTime":376.24,"body":"a child in our class, what did"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":372.66999999999996,"endTime":376.24,"body":"you get that sticker for and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":376.27,"endTime":379.48,"body":"actually they don't know or they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":376.27,"endTime":379.48,"body":"can't remember. And that's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":379.48,"endTime":384.25,"body":"usually indicative of a feedback"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":379.48,"endTime":384.25,"body":"loop which is too long. The"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":384.25,"endTime":388.53999999999996,"body":"reward has come too long after"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":384.25,"endTime":388.53999999999996,"body":"the action So the two are not"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":388.53999999999996,"endTime":390.58000000000004,"body":"now linked together in the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":388.53999999999996,"endTime":390.58000000000004,"body":"child's brain."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":390.64,"endTime":393.58000000000004,"body":"So whether it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":390.64,"endTime":393.58000000000004,"body":"a rat or a human the feedback,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":393.58000000000004,"endTime":397.27,"body":"the reward has to be within"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":393.58000000000004,"endTime":397.27,"body":"seconds, or certainly in humans"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":397.27,"endTime":401.02,"body":"a short number of minutes to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":397.27,"endTime":401.02,"body":"have any real impact. If our rat"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":401.02,"endTime":404.20000000000005,"body":"presses the lever, and the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":401.02,"endTime":404.20000000000005,"body":"reward drops down half a second"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":404.20000000000005,"endTime":407.55999999999995,"body":"later, it's easy for the rats to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":404.20000000000005,"endTime":407.55999999999995,"body":"associate pressing the lever"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":407.55999999999995,"endTime":410.79999999999995,"body":"with getting the food if the rat"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":407.55999999999995,"endTime":410.79999999999995,"body":"presses the lever, and five"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":410.79999999999995,"endTime":414.01,"body":"hours later food is released,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":410.79999999999995,"endTime":414.01,"body":"then the rat is going to find it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":414.01,"endTime":418.6,"body":"much more difficult to associate"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":414.01,"endTime":418.6,"body":"a with b. So this effect wanes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":418.63,"endTime":422.16999999999996,"body":"over time, and your brain"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":418.63,"endTime":422.16999999999996,"body":"doesn't link these two ideas in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":422.16999999999996,"endTime":425.38,"body":"any meaningful way. And that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":422.16999999999996,"endTime":425.38,"body":"means your child gets a sticker"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":425.38,"endTime":427.75,"body":"at the end of the day for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":425.38,"endTime":427.75,"body":"sitting well in assembly, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":427.75,"endTime":431.77,"body":"they don't really link the two"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":427.75,"endTime":431.77,"body":"ideas, when not encouraging that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":431.77,"endTime":432.93999999999994,"body":"behaviour in the future."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":432.97,"endTime":437.38,"body":"These ideas do"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":432.97,"endTime":437.38,"body":"apply to humans. So in 1949,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":437.40999999999997,"endTime":439.96000000000004,"body":"there was a documented"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":437.40999999999997,"endTime":439.96000000000004,"body":"experiment on a boy with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":439.96000000000004,"endTime":444.85,"body":"profound disabilities, he could"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":439.96000000000004,"endTime":444.85,"body":"only lie on his back and not"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":444.85,"endTime":448.57000000000005,"body":"rollover, every time the boy"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":444.85,"endTime":448.57000000000005,"body":"moved his right arm, the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":448.57000000000005,"endTime":452.74,"body":"researcher injected a warm sugar"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":448.57000000000005,"endTime":452.74,"body":"milk solution into the boy's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":452.74,"endTime":457.0,"body":"mouth. Interestingly, within"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":452.74,"endTime":457.0,"body":"four sessions, the boy could"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":457.0,"endTime":461.20000000000005,"body":"lift his arm into a vertical"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":457.0,"endTime":461.20000000000005,"body":"position three times per minute,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":461.26,"endTime":465.1,"body":"indicating that he wanted the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":461.26,"endTime":465.1,"body":"reward and linking the lifting"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":465.1,"endTime":468.64,"body":"of the arm with the reward. So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":465.1,"endTime":468.64,"body":"that motivated him to repeat"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":468.64,"endTime":471.30999999999995,"body":"that behaviour more and more"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":468.64,"endTime":471.30999999999995,"body":"frequently."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":471.42999999999995,"endTime":474.18999999999994,"body":"Now, we've been"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":471.42999999999995,"endTime":474.18999999999994,"body":"describing really quite simple"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":474.18999999999994,"endTime":477.30999999999995,"body":"behaviours at the moment, a rat"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":474.18999999999994,"endTime":477.30999999999995,"body":"in a cage, pressing a lever,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":477.30999999999995,"endTime":480.22,"body":"getting a reward, a child"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":477.30999999999995,"endTime":480.22,"body":"sitting nicely in assembly"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":480.22,"endTime":484.75,"body":"getting a sticker. But this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":480.22,"endTime":484.75,"body":"mechanism can lead to some"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":484.75,"endTime":489.4,"body":"really quite complex behaviours."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":484.75,"endTime":489.4,"body":"As an example, rats that only"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":489.4,"endTime":492.76,"body":"press the lever when a light in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":489.4,"endTime":492.76,"body":"the cage came on, or for pigeons"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":492.76,"endTime":496.03,"body":"to tap a lever when certain"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":492.76,"endTime":496.03,"body":"words appeared on a simple"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":496.03,"endTime":499.17999999999995,"body":"display, they had to learn which"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":496.03,"endTime":499.17999999999995,"body":"words gave them a reward and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":499.17999999999995,"endTime":500.40999999999997,"body":"which words to avoid."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":500.74,"endTime":502.53999999999996,"body":"So now we're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":500.74,"endTime":502.53999999999996,"body":"going to think about how the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":502.53999999999996,"endTime":507.37,"body":"effect changes over time,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":502.53999999999996,"endTime":507.37,"body":"dopamine only fires up on"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":507.46000000000004,"endTime":512.62,"body":"unexpected rewards, it likes"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":507.46000000000004,"endTime":512.62,"body":"novelty. So remember, this is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":512.62,"endTime":516.52,"body":"the chemical that says 'Pay"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":512.62,"endTime":516.52,"body":"attention'. And we stop paying"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":516.52,"endTime":520.84,"body":"attention to expected stuff."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":516.52,"endTime":520.84,"body":"Expected stuff fades into the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":520.84,"endTime":523.15,"body":"background and becomes a bit"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":520.84,"endTime":523.15,"body":"like wallpaper."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":523.3,"endTime":526.09,"body":"So whereas"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":523.3,"endTime":526.09,"body":"before we had a trigger, we've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":526.09,"endTime":528.1,"body":"got a rat in our cage, and it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":526.09,"endTime":528.1,"body":"a bit hungry, we've got a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":528.1,"endTime":531.7,"body":"behaviour, pressing the lever,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":528.1,"endTime":531.7,"body":"followed by a hit of dopamine"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":531.7,"endTime":535.18,"body":"saying pay attention to that."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":531.7,"endTime":535.18,"body":"What's interesting is over time,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":535.42,"endTime":539.92,"body":"the dopamine fires before you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":535.42,"endTime":539.92,"body":"engage in the behaviour, which"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":539.92,"endTime":544.45,"body":"will lead you to desire or crave"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":539.92,"endTime":544.45,"body":"the rewards. And this is what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":544.45,"endTime":547.15,"body":"leads to habits. It's called a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":544.45,"endTime":547.15,"body":"habit loop. I'm in a certain"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":547.15,"endTime":549.85,"body":"situation, maybe I'm not a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":547.15,"endTime":549.85,"body":"smoker, but imagine that you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":549.85,"endTime":553.24,"body":"a smoker, and you enjoy smoking"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":549.85,"endTime":553.24,"body":"in social environments, so"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":553.24,"endTime":555.79,"body":"you're out with your friends"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":553.24,"endTime":555.79,"body":"outside, because smoking inside"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":555.79,"endTime":557.89,"body":"is illegal now, but you're out"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":555.79,"endTime":557.89,"body":"with your friends in a social"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":557.89,"endTime":562.24,"body":"situation, being in that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":557.89,"endTime":562.24,"body":"situation gets dopamine to fire,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":562.33,"endTime":564.85,"body":"which makes you crave the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":562.33,"endTime":564.85,"body":"nicotine that you're used to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":564.85,"endTime":568.36,"body":"having in that situation. So it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":564.85,"endTime":568.36,"body":"creates habits and it creates a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":568.36,"endTime":569.53,"body":"desire for something."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":569.68,"endTime":572.59,"body":"So if you do a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":569.68,"endTime":572.59,"body":"behaviour and the expected"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":572.59,"endTime":577.51,"body":"reward doesn't come, less"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":572.59,"endTime":577.51,"body":"dopamine is fired, meaning that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":577.51,"endTime":581.02,"body":"over time you lose the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":577.51,"endTime":581.02,"body":"motivation to engage in that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":581.02,"endTime":585.01,"body":"behaviour, we lose interest in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":581.02,"endTime":585.01,"body":"the behaviours because we no"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":585.01,"endTime":588.7,"body":"longer find them rewarding, we"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":585.01,"endTime":588.7,"body":"need a very high level of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":588.7,"endTime":592.78,"body":"consistency to keep on"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":588.7,"endTime":592.78,"body":"encouraging the same behaviour."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":592.87,"endTime":596.02,"body":"So I engage in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":592.87,"endTime":596.02,"body":"the behaviour, get a reward 100%"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":596.02,"endTime":600.5500000000001,"body":"of the time. I need that 100%"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":596.02,"endTime":600.5500000000001,"body":"consistency, to keep encouraging"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":600.5500000000001,"endTime":603.91,"body":"me to repeat the behaviour. But"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":600.5500000000001,"endTime":603.91,"body":"there's another problem, not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":603.91,"endTime":607.69,"body":"just the power of the reward"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":603.91,"endTime":607.69,"body":"fading over time, but as a human"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":607.69,"endTime":612.4300000000001,"body":"being I become habituated or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":607.69,"endTime":612.4300000000001,"body":"used to the reward, so it loses"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":612.4300000000001,"endTime":617.32,"body":"some of its impact and novelty."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":612.4300000000001,"endTime":617.32,"body":"So now, not only do I need great"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":617.32,"endTime":622.09,"body":"consistency, I need greater and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":617.32,"endTime":622.09,"body":"greater rewards to have the same"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":622.09,"endTime":625.33,"body":"kind of impact and influence on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":622.09,"endTime":625.33,"body":"me, what was exciting at the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":625.33,"endTime":628.78,"body":"start of the year for kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":625.33,"endTime":628.78,"body":"becomes very pedestrian after a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":628.78,"endTime":631.66,"body":"while they might be very excited"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":628.78,"endTime":631.66,"body":"by a new reward scheme, they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":631.66,"endTime":635.2900000000001,"body":"might be excited to get stickers"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":631.66,"endTime":635.2900000000001,"body":"and dojos. But you know, give it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":635.2900000000001,"endTime":638.65,"body":"a month and those rewards become"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":635.2900000000001,"endTime":638.65,"body":"expected they get used to them,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":638.8000000000001,"endTime":640.5400000000001,"body":"and they lose all of their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":638.8000000000001,"endTime":640.5400000000001,"body":"impact."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":643.0600000000001,"endTime":646.27,"body":"And that's all we've got time"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":643.0600000000001,"endTime":646.27,"body":"for on this Essentials episode,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":646.45,"endTime":649.12,"body":"where we've considered the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":646.45,"endTime":649.12,"body":"science behind reward systems,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":649.15,"endTime":653.2900000000001,"body":"the impact of reward systems on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":649.15,"endTime":653.2900000000001,"body":"pupil motivation and how"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":653.32,"endTime":657.7900000000001,"body":"extrinsic rewards can actually"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":653.32,"endTime":657.7900000000001,"body":"have the opposite effect to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":657.7900000000001,"endTime":661.8100000000001,"body":"one that we intend. To find out"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":657.7900000000001,"endTime":661.8100000000001,"body":"two forms of extrinsic reward"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":661.8100000000001,"endTime":665.8000000000001,"body":"that do actually work and how"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":661.8100000000001,"endTime":665.8000000000001,"body":"you can make reward systems"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":665.8000000000001,"endTime":669.94,"body":"smart, I recommend you head back"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":665.8000000000001,"endTime":669.94,"body":"to the original episode. That's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":669.94,"endTime":674.32,"body":"episode 23. I'll leave a direct"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":669.94,"endTime":674.32,"body":"link in the show notes. And I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":674.32,"endTime":678.22,"body":"will say knowing about how to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":674.32,"endTime":678.22,"body":"use reward systems effectively"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":678.46,"endTime":682.3000000000001,"body":"is just one part of classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":678.46,"endTime":682.3000000000001,"body":"management. If you want to see"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":682.3000000000001,"endTime":685.66,"body":"how it fits alongside your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":682.3000000000001,"endTime":685.66,"body":"routines, your environment and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":685.69,"endTime":688.99,"body":"other factors we've got a Free"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":685.69,"endTime":688.99,"body":"Download called the classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":688.99,"endTime":692.59,"body":"management score sheet that will"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":688.99,"endTime":692.59,"body":"help grab a free copy of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":692.59,"endTime":696.49,"body":"score sheet today by going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":692.59,"endTime":696.49,"body":"beaconschoolsupport.co.uk. UK."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":696.6700000000001,"endTime":699.76,"body":"Clicking on the free resources"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":696.6700000000001,"endTime":699.76,"body":"option in the menu, you'll find"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":699.76,"endTime":702.94,"body":"it near the top of the page to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":699.76,"endTime":702.94,"body":"download. It's completely free."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":702.94,"endTime":706.27,"body":"And again, I'll put a direct"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":702.94,"endTime":706.27,"body":"link to that in the episode"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":706.27,"endTime":709.51,"body":"description as well. So grab it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":706.27,"endTime":709.51,"body":"today. If you've enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":709.51,"endTime":711.94,"body":"listening today, please remember"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":709.51,"endTime":711.94,"body":"to rate and review us It takes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":711.94,"endTime":715.27,"body":"just 30 seconds. And when you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":711.94,"endTime":715.27,"body":"do, it prompts the algorithm to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":715.27,"endTime":718.1800000000001,"body":"recommend School Behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":715.27,"endTime":718.1800000000001,"body":"Secrets to other listeners. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":718.1800000000001,"endTime":721.96,"body":"that helps us grow the podcast"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":718.1800000000001,"endTime":721.96,"body":"and get this information out to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":721.96,"endTime":724.78,"body":"other teachers, school leaders"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":721.96,"endTime":724.78,"body":"and parents. And while you've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":724.78,"endTime":728.11,"body":"got that podcast app open, do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":724.78,"endTime":728.11,"body":"remember to hit subscribe so you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":728.11,"endTime":731.5600000000001,"body":"never miss another episode."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":728.11,"endTime":731.5600000000001,"body":"Thanks for listening and I look"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":731.5600000000001,"endTime":734.8000000000001,"body":"forward to seeing you next time"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":731.5600000000001,"endTime":734.8000000000001,"body":"on School Behaviour Secrets"}]}