{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.58999999999999,"endTime":89.05999999999999,"body":"If you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.58999999999999,"endTime":89.05999999999999,"body":"working with kids who have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":89.05999999999999,"endTime":92.47999999999999,"body":"difficulties managing anger, or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":89.05999999999999,"endTime":92.47999999999999,"body":"other strong emotions in fact,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":92.72,"endTime":96.47,"body":"then this episode is reaching"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":92.72,"endTime":96.47,"body":"you at the perfect time, because"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":96.47,"endTime":99.53,"body":"we're going to look at what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":96.47,"endTime":99.53,"body":"stops anger management programs"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":99.53,"endTime":103.36999999999999,"body":"from being effective, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":99.53,"endTime":103.36999999999999,"body":"explore the evidence about how"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":103.36999999999999,"endTime":107.47999999999999,"body":"well they actually support"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":103.36999999999999,"endTime":107.47999999999999,"body":"students in school important"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":107.47999999999999,"endTime":111.94999999999999,"body":"stuff. So let's get started."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":107.47999999999999,"endTime":111.94999999999999,"body":"Welcome to the School Behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":111.94999999999999,"endTime":115.66999999999999,"body":"Secrets podcast. I'm your host,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":111.94999999999999,"endTime":115.66999999999999,"body":"Simon Currigan. My co host is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":115.66999999999999,"endTime":119.14999999999999,"body":"Emma Shackleton. And we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":115.66999999999999,"endTime":119.14999999999999,"body":"obsessed with helping teachers,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":119.14999999999999,"endTime":122.44999999999999,"body":"school leaders, parents, and of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":119.14999999999999,"endTime":122.44999999999999,"body":"course, students. When classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":122.44999999999999,"endTime":125.35999999999999,"body":"behavior gets in the way of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":122.44999999999999,"endTime":125.35999999999999,"body":"success, we're going to share"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":125.35999999999999,"endTime":127.97,"body":"the tried and tested secrets to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":125.35999999999999,"endTime":127.97,"body":"classroom management,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":128.0,"endTime":131.51,"body":"behavioral, special needs, whole"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":128.0,"endTime":131.51,"body":"school strategy and more all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":131.51,"endTime":134.32999999999998,"body":"with the aim of helping your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":131.51,"endTime":134.32999999999998,"body":"students reach their true"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":134.32999999999998,"endTime":137.75,"body":"potential. Plus, we'll be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":134.32999999999998,"endTime":137.75,"body":"letting you eavesdrop on our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":137.75,"endTime":140.87,"body":"conversations with thought"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":137.75,"endTime":140.87,"body":"leaders from around the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":141.01999999999998,"endTime":144.70999999999998,"body":"So you'll get to hear the latest"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":141.01999999999998,"endTime":144.70999999999998,"body":"evidence based strategies before"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":144.74,"endTime":149.0,"body":"anyone else. This is the School"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":144.74,"endTime":149.0,"body":"Behaviour Secrets podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":149.69,"endTime":152.36,"body":"Hi there, Simon Currigan here"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":149.69,"endTime":152.36,"body":"and welcome to another bite"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":152.36,"endTime":155.87,"body":"sized essentials episode of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":152.36,"endTime":155.87,"body":"School Behaviour Secrets. In"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":155.87,"endTime":159.29,"body":"these mini essentials episodes,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":155.87,"endTime":159.29,"body":"I like to share a bite sized"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":159.29,"endTime":162.53,"body":"discussion from a previous"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":159.29,"endTime":162.53,"body":"interview that will enhance your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":162.53,"endTime":164.83999999999997,"body":"understanding of behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":162.53,"endTime":164.83999999999997,"body":"management, and can be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":164.87,"endTime":168.62,"body":"introduced today to have a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":164.87,"endTime":168.62,"body":"positive impact on the pupils"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":168.62,"endTime":172.76,"body":"that you teach. In this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":168.62,"endTime":172.76,"body":"Essentials episode, my co host"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":172.76,"endTime":176.32999999999998,"body":"Emma and I are going to focus on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":172.76,"endTime":176.32999999999998,"body":"supporting pupils who have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":176.32999999999998,"endTime":181.01,"body":"difficulty with anger. We look"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":176.32999999999998,"endTime":181.01,"body":"at the factors that can prevent"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":181.04,"endTime":184.55,"body":"anger management programmes from"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":181.04,"endTime":184.55,"body":"having an impact, and review the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":184.55,"endTime":189.38,"body":"evidence about how well they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":184.55,"endTime":189.38,"body":"actually work in schools. So you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":189.38,"endTime":192.82999999999998,"body":"have everything you need to set"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":189.38,"endTime":192.82999999999998,"body":"up your anger management"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":192.82999999999998,"endTime":194.51,"body":"programmes for success."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":196.45999999999998,"endTime":199.97,"body":"So although kids can often name"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":196.45999999999998,"endTime":199.97,"body":"these techniques, when they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":199.97,"endTime":203.26999999999998,"body":"calm, in a session, in the room"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":199.97,"endTime":203.26999999999998,"body":"where you're running the anger"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":203.26999999999998,"endTime":206.06,"body":"management sessions in that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":203.26999999999998,"endTime":206.06,"body":"safe, calm environment,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":206.32999999999998,"endTime":209.66,"body":"actually, they have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":206.32999999999998,"endTime":209.66,"body":"trouble then translating that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":209.66,"endTime":212.03,"body":"theory into practice in the real"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":209.66,"endTime":212.03,"body":"world."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":212.0,"endTime":214.91699999999997,"body":"Absolutely. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":212.0,"endTime":214.91699999999997,"body":"it's different, isn't it in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":212.85,"endTime":261.03,"body":"So the research"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":212.85,"endTime":261.03,"body":"into this backs up that view"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":214.97899999999998,"endTime":218.57999999999998,"body":"context of when you are angry."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":214.97899999999998,"endTime":218.57999999999998,"body":"And the problem tends to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":218.642,"endTime":222.554,"body":"because when children get angry"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":218.642,"endTime":222.554,"body":"or anxious or overwhelmed, it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":222.61599999999999,"endTime":226.465,"body":"a really strong emotion that can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":222.61599999999999,"endTime":226.465,"body":"come on really quickly. We've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":226.527,"endTime":230.438,"body":"all worked with children who go"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":226.527,"endTime":230.438,"body":"from nought to 100 in you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":230.5,"endTime":234.411,"body":"a few seconds. So because that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":230.5,"endTime":234.411,"body":"feeling comes so quickly, it can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":234.474,"endTime":237.76399999999998,"body":"be difficult for us to be in a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":234.474,"endTime":237.76399999999998,"body":"position to deploy the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":237.826,"endTime":241.67499999999998,"body":"strategies that we've learned,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":237.826,"endTime":241.67499999999998,"body":"because what we know is when we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":241.737,"endTime":245.648,"body":"go into that fight or flight, so"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":241.737,"endTime":245.648,"body":"when our amygdala is fired up,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":245.71099999999998,"endTime":249.373,"body":"and we go into what we call"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":245.71099999999998,"endTime":249.373,"body":"amygdala hijack, the prefrontal"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":249.436,"endTime":253.285,"body":"cortex takes a backseat to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":249.436,"endTime":253.285,"body":"logical part of the brain where"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":253.347,"endTime":257.258,"body":"the strategies are stored, isn't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":253.347,"endTime":257.258,"body":"accessible. So at that moment,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":257.32,"endTime":260.983,"body":"it's too late to use those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":257.32,"endTime":260.983,"body":"strategies. And there are plenty"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":261.04499999999996,"endTime":264.584,"body":"of children who get overcome"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":261.04499999999996,"endTime":264.584,"body":"with emotion, do things that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":261.21000000000004,"endTime":287.19,"body":"about this kind of mixed or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":261.21000000000004,"endTime":287.19,"body":"limited level of effectiveness"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":264.64599999999996,"endTime":268.619,"body":"they regret and feel very sorry"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":264.64599999999996,"endTime":268.619,"body":"and sad about it later. And they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":268.681,"endTime":272.034,"body":"don't want to behave in that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":268.681,"endTime":272.034,"body":"way. And they do know the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":272.096,"endTime":275.759,"body":"strategies such as breathing,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":272.096,"endTime":275.759,"body":"such as mindfulness, but they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":275.821,"endTime":279.794,"body":"just aren't able to deploy those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":275.821,"endTime":279.794,"body":"strategies. Because the feeling"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":279.856,"endTime":283.395,"body":"is come on so quickly, they've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":279.856,"endTime":283.395,"body":"gone into amygdala hijack,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":283.457,"endTime":286.623,"body":"they've acted before they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":283.457,"endTime":286.623,"body":"thought about putting the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":286.685,"endTime":289.78999999999996,"body":"strategies into place and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":286.685,"endTime":289.78999999999996,"body":"everything's gone wrong."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":287.4,"endTime":299.46000000000004,"body":"that anger management groups"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":287.4,"endTime":299.46000000000004,"body":"have, there was a meta analysis"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":299.46000000000004,"endTime":302.64,"body":"of anger management groups. So a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":299.46000000000004,"endTime":302.64,"body":"meta analysis is where"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":302.64,"endTime":305.4,"body":"scientists and researchers just"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":302.64,"endTime":305.4,"body":"take lots and lots of different"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":305.4,"endTime":308.43,"body":"studies, and they look for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":305.4,"endTime":308.43,"body":"comparisons between them to see"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":308.43,"endTime":311.52,"body":"if they can pull out any sort of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":308.43,"endTime":311.52,"body":"wider conclusions. They looked"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":311.52,"endTime":315.93,"body":"at 60 studies between 1979 and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":311.52,"endTime":315.93,"body":"2010, and found out that the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":315.96000000000004,"endTime":320.31,"body":"impact of anger management"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":315.96000000000004,"endTime":320.31,"body":"groups was small to moderate. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":320.31,"endTime":323.82,"body":"there was an impact, but it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":320.31,"endTime":323.82,"body":"wasn't massive, they weren't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":323.82,"endTime":327.36,"body":"making huge gains. And another"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":323.82,"endTime":327.36,"body":"study that looked at the impact"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":327.36,"endTime":330.41999999999996,"body":"of anger and aggression"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":327.36,"endTime":330.41999999999996,"body":"treatments, this time on adults,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":330.69,"endTime":334.26,"body":"found that anger treatments"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":330.69,"endTime":334.26,"body":"consistently demonstrated"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":334.28999999999996,"endTime":337.38,"body":"moderate effectiveness. And then"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":334.28999999999996,"endTime":337.38,"body":"on the other hand, some reviews"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":337.38,"endTime":340.44,"body":"of individual programs do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":337.38,"endTime":340.44,"body":"actually show good results. But"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":340.44,"endTime":342.81,"body":"then when you dig into those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":340.44,"endTime":342.81,"body":"studies, the way those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":342.81,"endTime":345.99,"body":"researchers are demonstrating"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":342.81,"endTime":345.99,"body":"their evidence and collecting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":345.99,"endTime":348.39,"body":"that evidence can really be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":345.99,"endTime":348.39,"body":"called into question. So the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":348.39,"endTime":353.1,"body":"research on this is a very mixed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":348.39,"endTime":353.1,"body":"bag, but the impact is generally"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":353.1,"endTime":353.64,"body":"limited."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":353.68999999999994,"endTime":356.92999999999995,"body":"And of course,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":353.68999999999994,"endTime":356.92999999999995,"body":"to make an impact, the child"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":356.92999999999995,"endTime":361.30999999999995,"body":"themselves actually has to want"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":356.92999999999995,"endTime":361.30999999999995,"body":"to change, they need to be happy"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":361.30999999999995,"endTime":365.39,"body":"to use the strategies given to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":361.30999999999995,"endTime":365.39,"body":"them by the adults. If the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":365.39,"endTime":370.22,"body":"child's view is fixed, that it's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":365.39,"endTime":370.22,"body":"everybody else's problem, and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":370.22,"endTime":373.54999999999995,"body":"they don't take responsibility"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":370.22,"endTime":373.54999999999995,"body":"for their behaviour, then you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":373.54999999999995,"endTime":376.4,"body":"can give them all the strategies"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":373.54999999999995,"endTime":376.4,"body":"in the world, but they're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":376.4,"endTime":380.51,"body":"unlikely to use them in the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":376.4,"endTime":380.51,"body":"classroom or in social time when"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":380.51,"endTime":383.96000000000004,"body":"they need them because they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":380.51,"endTime":383.96000000000004,"body":"don't actually believe that they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":383.96000000000004,"endTime":387.89,"body":"need to change their behaviour."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":383.96000000000004,"endTime":387.89,"body":"Maybe their behaviour is serving"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":387.89,"endTime":389.05999999999995,"body":"a purpose for them."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":389.90999999999997,"endTime":392.4,"body":"So let's think"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":389.90999999999997,"endTime":392.4,"body":"about the cost of running anger"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":392.4,"endTime":395.01,"body":"management groups, really,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":392.4,"endTime":395.01,"body":"they're not that cheap. If you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":395.01,"endTime":398.15999999999997,"body":"think of having to run an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":395.01,"endTime":398.15999999999997,"body":"intervention for nine months to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":398.15999999999997,"endTime":401.49,"body":"a year to have a significant"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":398.15999999999997,"endTime":401.49,"body":"impact, then you need to think"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":401.49,"endTime":404.73,"body":"about the wages of the person"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":401.49,"endTime":404.73,"body":"who's running the group, whether"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":404.73,"endTime":408.29999999999995,"body":"that's a learning mentor, a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":404.73,"endTime":408.29999999999995,"body":"counselor, a teaching assistant,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":408.51,"endTime":410.42999999999995,"body":"they're going to be tied up with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":408.51,"endTime":410.42999999999995,"body":"a small group. And that means"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":410.42999999999995,"endTime":413.90999999999997,"body":"they can't be deployed to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":410.42999999999995,"endTime":413.90999999999997,"body":"support children elsewhere with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":413.90999999999997,"endTime":417.45000000000005,"body":"academic interventions or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":413.90999999999997,"endTime":417.45000000000005,"body":"supporting in the classroom. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":417.45000000000005,"endTime":421.20000000000005,"body":"if you add up those wages over"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":417.45000000000005,"endTime":421.20000000000005,"body":"those sort of 50 weeks or so"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":421.5,"endTime":424.32000000000005,"body":"that's a considerable sum,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":421.5,"endTime":424.32000000000005,"body":"you've also got the cost of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":424.32000000000005,"endTime":426.87,"body":"using the room, I mean, that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":424.32000000000005,"endTime":426.87,"body":"fairly low cost in terms of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":426.87,"endTime":430.74,"body":"pounds and pence. But if you are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":426.87,"endTime":430.74,"body":"limited in school for the amount"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":430.74,"endTime":434.22,"body":"of space you've got for running"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":430.74,"endTime":434.22,"body":"interventions, then that means"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":434.22,"endTime":436.77,"body":"if you're using the room for an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":434.22,"endTime":436.77,"body":"anger management group on a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":436.77,"endTime":439.83000000000004,"body":"Thursday afternoon for an hour,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":436.77,"endTime":439.83000000000004,"body":"you can't be using that room for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":439.83000000000004,"endTime":444.09000000000003,"body":"anything else. And also, many"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":439.83000000000004,"endTime":444.09000000000003,"body":"schools then invest in resources"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":444.09000000000003,"endTime":448.16999999999996,"body":"like like books and curriculums"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":444.09000000000003,"endTime":448.16999999999996,"body":"to support the anger management"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":448.16999999999996,"endTime":451.20000000000005,"body":"group. And that sometimes can be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":448.16999999999996,"endTime":451.20000000000005,"body":"quite a big investment too."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":451.40999999999997,"endTime":453.68999999999994,"body":"Also training"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":451.40999999999997,"endTime":453.68999999999994,"body":"for staff as well. So there are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":453.68999999999994,"endTime":457.11,"body":"training courses available and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":453.68999999999994,"endTime":457.11,"body":"staff might do a whole day or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":457.11,"endTime":460.83000000000004,"body":"half day training, so that kind"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":457.11,"endTime":460.83000000000004,"body":"of cost can add up as well."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":460.91999999999996,"endTime":464.37,"body":"Arguably, there is a cost to the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":460.91999999999996,"endTime":464.37,"body":"children from missing their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":464.37,"endTime":467.82000000000005,"body":"lessons to go out to an"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":464.37,"endTime":467.82000000000005,"body":"intervention as well say a child"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":467.82000000000005,"endTime":470.25,"body":"is coming out to an anger"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":467.82000000000005,"endTime":470.25,"body":"management class, but they're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":470.25,"endTime":473.85,"body":"missing their art lesson, that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":470.25,"endTime":473.85,"body":"might be the time of the week"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":473.88,"endTime":476.93999999999994,"body":"where they really excel. That"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":473.88,"endTime":476.93999999999994,"body":"might be the lesson that they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":476.93999999999994,"endTime":480.21000000000004,"body":"love, that they're really good"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":476.93999999999994,"endTime":480.21000000000004,"body":"at. It might be their only"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":480.21000000000004,"endTime":484.20000000000005,"body":"successful time in school, and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":480.21000000000004,"endTime":484.20000000000005,"body":"the only time that their peers"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":484.20000000000005,"endTime":488.18999999999994,"body":"see them in a positive light. So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":484.20000000000005,"endTime":488.18999999999994,"body":"actually, the cost of they're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":488.18999999999994,"endTime":491.97,"body":"missing that session in terms of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":488.18999999999994,"endTime":491.97,"body":"their social standing, and their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":491.97,"endTime":496.26,"body":"peer interactions and their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":491.97,"endTime":496.26,"body":"esteem is actually quite large."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":496.32000000000005,"endTime":499.89,"body":"So Simon, thinking about what"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":496.32000000000005,"endTime":499.89,"body":"we've said in this episode, are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":499.89,"endTime":503.15999999999997,"body":"we saying them that we shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":499.89,"endTime":503.15999999999997,"body":"bother running anger management"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":503.15999999999997,"endTime":504.51,"body":"groups in schools?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":504.47,"endTime":507.029,"body":"Is this where we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":504.47,"endTime":507.029,"body":"should have a drum roll? No,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":507.086,"endTime":510.32899999999995,"body":"we're not saying that. What"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":507.086,"endTime":510.32899999999995,"body":"we're saying is that too many"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":510.38599999999997,"endTime":513.856,"body":"anger management interventions"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":510.38599999999997,"endTime":513.856,"body":"are focusing on giving the kid"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":513.913,"endTime":517.326,"body":"strategies to use once they are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":513.913,"endTime":517.326,"body":"angry. And as you've already"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":517.37,"endTime":590.6,"body":"Oh, this sounds"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":517.37,"endTime":590.6,"body":"like my kind of science. Well,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":517.383,"endTime":520.966,"body":"said, ever, once you are angry,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":517.383,"endTime":520.966,"body":"the parts of the brain that you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":521.023,"endTime":524.721,"body":"need to access those strategies,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":521.023,"endTime":524.721,"body":"the prefrontal cortex is kind of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":524.778,"endTime":527.907,"body":"taken offline to the very part"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":524.778,"endTime":527.907,"body":"of the brain you need to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":527.963,"endTime":531.32,"body":"implement the strategies isn't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":527.963,"endTime":531.32,"body":"available to you when you're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":531.377,"endTime":534.847,"body":"angry. So we're being reactive"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":531.377,"endTime":534.847,"body":"rather than proactive. The key"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":534.904,"endTime":537.975,"body":"is getting the kids to take"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":534.904,"endTime":537.975,"body":"early intervention at much"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":538.032,"endTime":541.047,"body":"earliest age when they're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":538.032,"endTime":541.047,"body":"starting to get frustrated."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":541.104,"endTime":544.631,"body":"That's when the strategies need"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":541.104,"endTime":544.631,"body":"to be put in place. It's about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":544.688,"endTime":547.93,"body":"when they use the strategies"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":544.688,"endTime":547.93,"body":"much earlier on, rather than"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":547.987,"endTime":551.514,"body":"waiting until it's too late. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":547.987,"endTime":551.514,"body":"that's the difference between"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":551.571,"endTime":554.529,"body":"self control and self"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":551.571,"endTime":554.529,"body":"regulation. See our episode on"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":554.586,"endTime":558.056,"body":"self regulation with Dr. Stuart"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":554.586,"endTime":558.056,"body":"Shanker for more information."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":558.1129999999999,"endTime":561.469,"body":"And we know from studies that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":558.1129999999999,"endTime":561.469,"body":"self control is a really poor"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":561.526,"endTime":564.484,"body":"way to manage any form of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":561.526,"endTime":564.484,"body":"behaviour. It's called ego"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":564.5409999999999,"endTime":568.068,"body":"depletion. There is some doubt"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":564.5409999999999,"endTime":568.068,"body":"over whether ego depletion is a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":568.125,"endTime":571.481,"body":"real thing exactly. But there"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":568.125,"endTime":571.481,"body":"are lots of studies that when"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":571.538,"endTime":574.667,"body":"we're put in a situation where"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":571.538,"endTime":574.667,"body":"we have to exercise self"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":574.724,"endTime":577.966,"body":"control, that self control runs"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":574.724,"endTime":577.966,"body":"out and fast. There was a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":578.023,"endTime":581.038,"body":"researcher called Roy"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":578.023,"endTime":581.038,"body":"Baumeister, and he had a really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":581.095,"endTime":584.793,"body":"interesting study, he set up his"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":581.095,"endTime":584.793,"body":"lab, and he invited one group of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":584.849,"endTime":588.32,"body":"students in to eat some freshly"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":584.849,"endTime":588.32,"body":"baked chocolate chip cookies."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":590.63,"endTime":592.28,"body":"You would have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":590.63,"endTime":592.28,"body":"been the first group, because"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":592.28,"endTime":596.24,"body":"the second group that came in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":592.28,"endTime":596.24,"body":"was shown the plate of freshly"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":596.24,"endTime":599.51,"body":"baked cookies, and then asked to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":596.24,"endTime":599.51,"body":"resist them and munch on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":599.51,"endTime":603.08,"body":"radishes instead. Then he gave"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":599.51,"endTime":603.08,"body":"each group and impossible"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":603.08,"endTime":606.08,"body":"geometry puzzle to solve and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":603.08,"endTime":606.08,"body":"watch to see how long it took"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":606.08,"endTime":608.96,"body":"them to give up on the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":606.08,"endTime":608.96,"body":"impossible puzzle. Well, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":608.96,"endTime":611.6,"body":"students who were just given the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":608.96,"endTime":611.6,"body":"cookies worked on the puzzle for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":611.6,"endTime":614.87,"body":"20 minutes on average, but the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":611.6,"endTime":614.87,"body":"students who had to use self"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":614.87,"endTime":618.86,"body":"control and resisted the you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":614.87,"endTime":618.86,"body":"know, delicious cookies and ate"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":618.86,"endTime":623.0600000000001,"body":"the radishes gave up after an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":618.86,"endTime":623.0600000000001,"body":"average of eight minutes. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":623.1800000000001,"endTime":628.1,"body":"that shows using self control in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":623.1800000000001,"endTime":628.1,"body":"one arena affects our ability to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":628.13,"endTime":631.49,"body":"exercise self control down the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":628.13,"endTime":631.49,"body":"line, our self control runs out."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":631.52,"endTime":634.25,"body":"And I think anyone who's ever"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":631.52,"endTime":634.25,"body":"been on a diet, or tried an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":634.25,"endTime":637.4300000000001,"body":"exercise program probably can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":634.25,"endTime":637.4300000000001,"body":"relate to that at some level."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":637.46,"endTime":639.44,"body":"So going back"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":637.46,"endTime":639.44,"body":"to our point about whether we"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":639.44,"endTime":642.32,"body":"should or shouldn't run anger"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":639.44,"endTime":642.32,"body":"management groups, we've got to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":642.32,"endTime":645.8000000000001,"body":"think about what we said at the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":642.32,"endTime":645.8000000000001,"body":"beginning. And that is that most"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":645.8000000000001,"endTime":650.3000000000001,"body":"interventions have repeat"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":645.8000000000001,"endTime":650.3000000000001,"body":"offenders. So kids who keep on"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":650.3000000000001,"endTime":653.9300000000001,"body":"coming back to the group when"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":650.3000000000001,"endTime":653.9300000000001,"body":"they're calm, they can talk all"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":653.9300000000001,"endTime":656.51,"body":"about what they should have done"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":653.9300000000001,"endTime":656.51,"body":"when they got mad, but they're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":656.51,"endTime":661.07,"body":"rarely able to implement the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":656.51,"endTime":661.07,"body":"strategies at the right time. So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":661.07,"endTime":663.53,"body":"the missing ingredient that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":661.07,"endTime":663.53,"body":"we've already talked about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":663.53,"endTime":668.45,"body":"really is that kids need to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":663.53,"endTime":668.45,"body":"learn about their physiology, so"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":668.45,"endTime":672.32,"body":"that they understand when to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":668.45,"endTime":672.32,"body":"apply their anger management"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":672.32,"endTime":676.52,"body":"strategies. So the first thing"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":672.32,"endTime":676.52,"body":"we need to teach them is about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":676.5500000000001,"endTime":681.1700000000001,"body":"self awareness and understanding"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":676.5500000000001,"endTime":681.1700000000001,"body":"that that big feeling is coming"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":681.47,"endTime":684.1700000000001,"body":"in time for them to put the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":681.47,"endTime":684.1700000000001,"body":"strategy in place."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":686.59,"endTime":688.66,"body":"That's all we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":686.59,"endTime":688.66,"body":"have got time for on this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":688.69,"endTime":692.35,"body":"Essentials episode, where we've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":688.69,"endTime":692.35,"body":"looked at the effectiveness of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":692.35,"endTime":694.9300000000001,"body":"running anger management"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":692.35,"endTime":694.9300000000001,"body":"interventions. If you'd like to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":694.9300000000001,"endTime":697.8100000000001,"body":"know more about anger management"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":694.9300000000001,"endTime":697.8100000000001,"body":"interventions, what they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":697.8100000000001,"endTime":700.99,"body":"actually look like in schools"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":697.8100000000001,"endTime":700.99,"body":"and the key to making them"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":700.99,"endTime":704.71,"body":"successful, pop back to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":700.99,"endTime":704.71,"body":"original episode. That's number"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":704.74,"endTime":708.82,"body":"25. And I'll put a direct link"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":704.74,"endTime":708.82,"body":"to that in the show notes. If"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":708.82,"endTime":711.46,"body":"you've enjoyed listening today,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":708.82,"endTime":711.46,"body":"please remember to rate and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":711.46,"endTime":714.73,"body":"review us It takes just 30"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":711.46,"endTime":714.73,"body":"seconds. And when you do, it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":714.73,"endTime":717.01,"body":"prompts the algorithm to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":714.73,"endTime":717.01,"body":"recommend School Behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":717.01,"endTime":721.5400000000001,"body":"Secrets to other listeners. That"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":717.01,"endTime":721.5400000000001,"body":"helps us grow the podcast and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":721.5400000000001,"endTime":724.66,"body":"reach other teachers, school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":721.5400000000001,"endTime":724.66,"body":"leaders and parents who need"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":724.66,"endTime":727.21,"body":"this information. And while"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":724.66,"endTime":727.21,"body":"you've got your podcast app"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":727.21,"endTime":731.32,"body":"open, Do please remember to hit"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":727.21,"endTime":731.32,"body":"subscribe so you never miss"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":731.32,"endTime":734.5600000000001,"body":"another episode. Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":731.32,"endTime":734.5600000000001,"body":"listening, and I look forward to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":734.5600000000001,"endTime":737.23,"body":"seeing you next time on School"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":734.5600000000001,"endTime":737.23,"body":"Behaviour Secrets"}]}