{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.35,"endTime":89.33,"body":"Do the children"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.35,"endTime":89.33,"body":"you work with seem to lack"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":89.36,"endTime":93.22999999999999,"body":"empathy? Is this affecting their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":89.36,"endTime":93.22999999999999,"body":"ability to handle social"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":93.22999999999999,"endTime":97.03999999999999,"body":"interactions? How do you even"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":93.22999999999999,"endTime":97.03999999999999,"body":"begin to teach them this key"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":97.03999999999999,"endTime":100.42999999999999,"body":"life skill? Join us for this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":97.03999999999999,"endTime":100.42999999999999,"body":"edition of School Behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":100.42999999999999,"endTime":103.72999999999999,"body":"Secrets to see how you can make"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":100.42999999999999,"endTime":103.72999999999999,"body":"a difference to your pupils"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":103.72999999999999,"endTime":108.67999999999999,"body":"empathy and relationships today."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":103.72999999999999,"endTime":108.67999999999999,"body":"Welcome to the School Behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":108.67999999999999,"endTime":112.42999999999999,"body":"Secrets podcast. I'm your host,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":108.67999999999999,"endTime":112.42999999999999,"body":"Simon Currigan. My co host is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":112.42999999999999,"endTime":115.88,"body":"Emma Shackleton. And we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":112.42999999999999,"endTime":115.88,"body":"obsessed with helping teachers,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":115.88,"endTime":119.17999999999999,"body":"school leaders, parents, and of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":115.88,"endTime":119.17999999999999,"body":"course, students. When classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":119.17999999999999,"endTime":122.09,"body":"behaviour gets in the way of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":119.17999999999999,"endTime":122.09,"body":"success, we're going to share"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":122.09,"endTime":124.72999999999999,"body":"the tried and tested secrets to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":122.09,"endTime":124.72999999999999,"body":"classroom management,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":124.72999999999999,"endTime":128.26999999999998,"body":"behavioural Special Needs whole"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":124.72999999999999,"endTime":128.26999999999998,"body":"school strategy and more all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":128.26999999999998,"endTime":131.06,"body":"with the aim of helping your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":128.26999999999998,"endTime":131.06,"body":"students reach their true"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":131.06,"endTime":134.51,"body":"potential. Plus, we'll be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":131.06,"endTime":134.51,"body":"letting you eavesdrop on our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":134.51,"endTime":137.63,"body":"conversations with thought"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":134.51,"endTime":137.63,"body":"leaders from around the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":137.75,"endTime":141.47,"body":"So you'll get to hear the latest"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":137.75,"endTime":141.47,"body":"evidence based strategies before"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":141.5,"endTime":145.73,"body":"anyone else. This is the School"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":141.5,"endTime":145.73,"body":"Behavior Secrets podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":146.57,"endTime":149.45,"body":"Hi there, Simon Currigan here"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":146.57,"endTime":149.45,"body":"and welcome to another freshly"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":149.45,"endTime":152.57,"body":"baked essentials episode of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":149.45,"endTime":152.57,"body":"School Behaviour Secrets, where"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":152.57,"endTime":157.16,"body":"I share with you one important"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":152.57,"endTime":157.16,"body":"strategy or idea or insight from"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":157.16,"endTime":159.53,"body":"an earlier episode that can have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":157.16,"endTime":159.53,"body":"an impact for the students that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":159.53,"endTime":164.18,"body":"you work with in your school or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":159.53,"endTime":164.18,"body":"your classroom. But before we go"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":164.18,"endTime":167.18,"body":"any further if you enjoy"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":164.18,"endTime":167.18,"body":"listening to School Behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":167.18,"endTime":169.97,"body":"Secrets, please remember to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":167.18,"endTime":169.97,"body":"subscribe so you never miss"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":169.97,"endTime":173.69,"body":"another episode, all you have to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":169.97,"endTime":173.69,"body":"do is open up your podcast app"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":173.69,"endTime":176.54,"body":"and click follow or subscribe"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":173.69,"endTime":176.54,"body":"it's completely free."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":177.11,"endTime":180.26,"body":"Today we join a discussion from"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":177.11,"endTime":180.26,"body":"an earlier episode where my co"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":180.26,"endTime":185.63,"body":"host Emma Shackleton and I think"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":180.26,"endTime":185.63,"body":"about children and empathy and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":185.63,"endTime":189.23,"body":"the different stages that kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":185.63,"endTime":189.23,"body":"go through to develop this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":189.53,"endTime":194.08999999999997,"body":"important skill and how we as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":189.53,"endTime":194.08999999999997,"body":"educators can specifically teach"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":194.08999999999997,"endTime":197.32999999999998,"body":"those who find it difficult"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":194.08999999999997,"endTime":197.32999999999998,"body":"enabling them to integrate"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":197.32999999999998,"endTime":203.0,"body":"successfully into the social"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":197.32999999999998,"endTime":203.0,"body":"life of the classroom. It's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":203.0,"endTime":206.20999999999998,"body":"generally thought that kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":203.0,"endTime":206.20999999999998,"body":"don't develop empathy in a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":206.20999999999998,"endTime":209.93,"body":"meaningful way until they hit"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":206.20999999999998,"endTime":209.93,"body":"about two years old before their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":209.93,"endTime":213.07999999999998,"body":"kids do develop some emotional"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":209.93,"endTime":213.07999999999998,"body":"empathy. So they can look at"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":213.07999999999998,"endTime":216.5,"body":"their parent understand whether"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":213.07999999999998,"endTime":216.5,"body":"they're happy or upset that at"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":216.5,"endTime":219.98,"body":"that point, they don't have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":216.5,"endTime":219.98,"body":"cognitive empathy. So they might"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":219.98,"endTime":222.56,"body":"understand that the mother or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":219.98,"endTime":222.56,"body":"father is upset, but they find"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":222.56,"endTime":225.53,"body":"it hard to take their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":222.56,"endTime":225.53,"body":"perspective. And then because"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":225.53,"endTime":228.01999999999998,"body":"they can't do that, they don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":225.53,"endTime":228.01999999999998,"body":"act on it, you don't see active"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":228.04999999999998,"endTime":230.63,"body":"compassionate empathy or putting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":228.04999999999998,"endTime":230.63,"body":"someone else's needs above"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":230.63,"endTime":234.32,"body":"theirs. So an example if you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":230.63,"endTime":234.32,"body":"a parent, I'm sure you've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":235.04,"endTime":238.07,"body":"experienced that I have a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":235.04,"endTime":238.07,"body":"feeling really quite unwell"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":238.07,"endTime":241.54999999999998,"body":"lying on the sofa feeling really"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":238.07,"endTime":241.54999999999998,"body":"rough with a horrendous cold,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":241.60999999999999,"endTime":244.97,"body":"you got a cup of lemsip you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":241.60999999999999,"endTime":244.97,"body":"looking really rough, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":244.97,"endTime":247.97,"body":"your toddler can look at you can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":244.97,"endTime":247.97,"body":"see her and well, but they'll"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":247.97,"endTime":249.92,"body":"put their own needs first"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":247.97,"endTime":249.92,"body":"because they really want to play"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":249.92,"endTime":252.10999999999999,"body":"with you. And they'll jump up"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":249.92,"endTime":252.10999999999999,"body":"and down on the sofa until you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":252.10999999999999,"endTime":255.2,"body":"join in. Even though you look"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":252.10999999999999,"endTime":255.2,"body":"really rough, it's interesting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":255.2,"endTime":258.59000000000003,"body":"kids might develop emotional"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":255.2,"endTime":258.59000000000003,"body":"empathy early than we think"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":258.62,"endTime":261.98,"body":"experiments are shown kids as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":258.62,"endTime":261.98,"body":"young as eight months can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":261.98,"endTime":264.74,"body":"recognize emotional distress not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":261.98,"endTime":264.74,"body":"just in their parents, but in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":264.74,"endTime":268.1,"body":"other infants. So we are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":264.74,"endTime":268.1,"body":"developing this at an early age."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":268.13,"endTime":271.13,"body":"But then the more complex layers"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":268.13,"endTime":271.13,"body":"to cognitive empathy and the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":271.13,"endTime":273.26,"body":"compassionate empathy. They come"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":271.13,"endTime":273.26,"body":"later."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":273.40999999999997,"endTime":275.27,"body":"And we've also"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":273.40999999999997,"endTime":275.27,"body":"got something called Joint"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":275.29999999999995,"endTime":279.47,"body":"attention. And that's realizing"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":275.29999999999995,"endTime":279.47,"body":"that two people can both be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":279.47,"endTime":283.54999999999995,"body":"focusing on the same thing at"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":279.47,"endTime":283.54999999999995,"body":"the same time. And this develops"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":283.54999999999995,"endTime":287.18,"body":"in early years as well. So for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":283.54999999999995,"endTime":287.18,"body":"example, if you point at"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":287.18,"endTime":291.02,"body":"something, the child will look"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":287.18,"endTime":291.02,"body":"to see what you're pointing at"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":291.04999999999995,"endTime":294.56,"body":"and realize that you're both"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":291.04999999999995,"endTime":294.56,"body":"looking at the same thing. At"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":294.56,"endTime":299.09000000000003,"body":"the same time, they're also"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":294.56,"endTime":299.09000000000003,"body":"beginning to start reading your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":299.09000000000003,"endTime":303.2,"body":"intention. Interestingly,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":299.09000000000003,"endTime":303.2,"body":"animals often demonstrate that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":303.2,"endTime":306.86,"body":"they don't have this cognitive"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":303.2,"endTime":306.86,"body":"ability. So try this with your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":306.86,"endTime":310.85,"body":"pets at home. If you point at"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":306.86,"endTime":310.85,"body":"something to show your cat, the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":310.85,"endTime":313.49,"body":"cat will just look at your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":310.85,"endTime":313.49,"body":"finger and not at the thing that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":313.49,"endTime":317.03,"body":"you're pointing to. Dogs are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":313.49,"endTime":317.03,"body":"interesting though, if you put a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":317.03,"endTime":320.69,"body":"bone in a newspaper at the end"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":317.03,"endTime":320.69,"body":"of a garden and gesture for the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":320.69,"endTime":324.83,"body":"dog to fetch, it will often"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":320.69,"endTime":324.83,"body":"collect the thing it knows that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":324.83,"endTime":329.29999999999995,"body":"the human wants, not the thing"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":324.83,"endTime":329.29999999999995,"body":"that would naturally go for so"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":329.33,"endTime":332.33,"body":"often it will fetch the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":329.33,"endTime":332.33,"body":"newspaper to please the human"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":332.36,"endTime":335.87,"body":"rather than fetch the bone to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":332.36,"endTime":335.87,"body":"please itself. Well, that's the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":335.87,"endTime":338.75,"body":"theory. I'm not sure my dog"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":335.87,"endTime":338.75,"body":"would do either. She'd probably"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":338.75,"endTime":341.72,"body":"just roll over for a belly rub."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":338.75,"endTime":341.72,"body":"But it's clever stuff."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":341.35,"endTime":345.76,"body":"At two years old"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":341.35,"endTime":345.76,"body":"children do begin to understand"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":345.76,"endTime":349.84000000000003,"body":"intentionality in a more complex"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":345.76,"endTime":349.84000000000003,"body":"way. So what we mean by that is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":349.84000000000003,"endTime":353.35,"body":"starting to read people's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":349.84000000000003,"endTime":353.35,"body":"motivations for their actions"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":353.35,"endTime":356.02,"body":"starting to understand why"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":353.35,"endTime":356.02,"body":"they're doing the thing that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":356.02,"endTime":358.75,"body":"they're doing. So they can start"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":356.02,"endTime":358.75,"body":"to understand that a person is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":358.75,"endTime":362.40999999999997,"body":"making a sandwich because"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":358.75,"endTime":362.40999999999997,"body":"they're hungry. And importantly,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":362.40999999999997,"endTime":365.59000000000003,"body":"they start to understand the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":362.40999999999997,"endTime":365.59000000000003,"body":"difference between someone"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":365.62,"endTime":369.70000000000005,"body":"engaging in an action"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":365.62,"endTime":369.70000000000005,"body":"accidentally and someone who's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":369.70000000000005,"endTime":373.21000000000004,"body":"doing something on purpose. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":369.70000000000005,"endTime":373.21000000000004,"body":"if someone walks past them and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":373.21000000000004,"endTime":376.12,"body":"bumps them, they can understand"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":373.21000000000004,"endTime":376.12,"body":"that could be an accident, in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":376.12,"endTime":380.04999999999995,"body":"which case one response is more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":376.12,"endTime":380.04999999999995,"body":"appropriate or they deliberately"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":380.04999999999995,"endTime":382.57000000000005,"body":"went and hurt me and barged into"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":380.04999999999995,"endTime":382.57000000000005,"body":"me, in which case another"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":382.57000000000005,"endTime":385.87,"body":"reaction is appropriate. So they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":382.57000000000005,"endTime":385.87,"body":"are starting to take perspective"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":385.87,"endTime":388.41999999999996,"body":"in a way and understanding"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":385.87,"endTime":388.41999999999996,"body":"people's motivation and this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":388.41999999999996,"endTime":390.97,"body":"really interesting isn't limited"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":388.41999999999996,"endTime":390.97,"body":"to humans, there are studies to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":390.97,"endTime":394.6,"body":"show that other primates can do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":390.97,"endTime":394.6,"body":"this. And again, you can see in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":394.6,"endTime":397.12,"body":"a social animal how"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":394.6,"endTime":397.12,"body":"understanding someone's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":397.12,"endTime":399.90999999999997,"body":"intention would help you fit"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":397.12,"endTime":399.90999999999997,"body":"into the group and be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":399.90999999999997,"endTime":400.45000000000005,"body":"successful."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":400.49,"endTime":402.40999999999997,"body":"And just"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":400.49,"endTime":402.40999999999997,"body":"imagining two monkeys now"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":402.40999999999997,"endTime":404.87,"body":"working out whether somebody"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":402.40999999999997,"endTime":404.87,"body":"bumping into them was done on"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":404.87,"endTime":405.67999999999995,"body":"purpose or not."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":405.35,"endTime":408.79999999999995,"body":"Those bananas"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":405.35,"endTime":408.79999999999995,"body":"have gone everywhere."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":409.76,"endTime":412.54999999999995,"body":"So by the time"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":409.76,"endTime":412.54999999999995,"body":"they start school, then most"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":412.54999999999995,"endTime":416.45000000000005,"body":"kids have a higher level of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":412.54999999999995,"endTime":416.45000000000005,"body":"emotional empathy. And they are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":416.45000000000005,"endTime":420.55999999999995,"body":"developing cognitive and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":416.45000000000005,"endTime":420.55999999999995,"body":"compassionate empathy to but"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":420.55999999999995,"endTime":424.58000000000004,"body":"this does vary massively from"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":420.55999999999995,"endTime":424.58000000000004,"body":"child to child. So you'll have"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":424.58000000000004,"endTime":428.03,"body":"some school starters that are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":424.58000000000004,"endTime":428.03,"body":"well on the way with this. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":428.03,"endTime":430.76,"body":"then you'll have other children"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":428.03,"endTime":430.76,"body":"that it takes them much, much"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":430.76,"endTime":434.87,"body":"longer to pick these skills up."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":430.76,"endTime":434.87,"body":"Sometimes it makes it hard for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":434.87,"endTime":438.14,"body":"children to understand the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":434.87,"endTime":438.14,"body":"impact of their actions on"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":438.16999999999996,"endTime":442.37,"body":"others. So for example, well, I"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":438.16999999999996,"endTime":442.37,"body":"knocked over the tower of bricks"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":442.37,"endTime":444.95000000000005,"body":"because I wanted to be a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":442.37,"endTime":444.95000000000005,"body":"dinosaur. And just not"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":444.95000000000005,"endTime":448.18999999999994,"body":"recognizing that the tower of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":444.95000000000005,"endTime":448.18999999999994,"body":"bricks is important to somebody"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":448.18999999999994,"endTime":451.61,"body":"else. And just because you're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":448.18999999999994,"endTime":451.61,"body":"wanting to be a dinosaur, and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":451.61,"endTime":454.30999999999995,"body":"knock things down, that might"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":451.61,"endTime":454.30999999999995,"body":"not be what everybody else is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":454.30999999999995,"endTime":457.4,"body":"wanting to do as well. So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":454.30999999999995,"endTime":457.4,"body":"they're just beginning to work"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":457.4,"endTime":458.45000000000005,"body":"those things out."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":458.68999999999994,"endTime":461.10699999999997,"body":"At ages four or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":458.68999999999994,"endTime":461.10699999999997,"body":"five, they do start to develop"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":461.159,"endTime":464.313,"body":"some more complex theory of mind"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":461.159,"endTime":464.313,"body":"and perspective taking. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":464.365,"endTime":467.04499999999996,"body":"there was a fascinating"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":464.365,"endTime":467.04499999999996,"body":"experiment all around false"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":467.09799999999996,"endTime":470.04099999999994,"body":"belief. Now false belief is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":467.09799999999996,"endTime":470.04099999999994,"body":"understanding and predicting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":470.09299999999996,"endTime":473.352,"body":"someone's actions based on what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":470.09299999999996,"endTime":473.352,"body":"they believe around the world,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":473.404,"endTime":476.347,"body":"rather than what's actually"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":473.404,"endTime":476.347,"body":"true. So the experiment went"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":476.4,"endTime":479.71000000000004,"body":"something like this, they had a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":476.4,"endTime":479.71000000000004,"body":"child in a room. And there were"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":479.76300000000003,"endTime":482.81100000000004,"body":"two adults, let's call one"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":479.76300000000003,"endTime":482.81100000000004,"body":"adult, the experimenter and the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":482.86400000000003,"endTime":486.01699999999994,"body":"other the stage. So there's a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":482.86400000000003,"endTime":486.01699999999994,"body":"table and there's some crayons"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":486.06899999999996,"endTime":489.38,"body":"on the table. And there were two"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":486.06899999999996,"endTime":489.38,"body":"boxes, box one and box two. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":489.433,"endTime":492.586,"body":"the students in the room have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":489.433,"endTime":492.586,"body":"the child in the room, and the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":492.63800000000003,"endTime":495.68600000000004,"body":"experimenter picks up the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":492.63800000000003,"endTime":495.68600000000004,"body":"crayons and shows both the child"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":495.73900000000003,"endTime":499.04999999999995,"body":"and the stage that they're going"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":495.73900000000003,"endTime":499.04999999999995,"body":"to put the crayons in box one,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":499.102,"endTime":502.466,"body":"and then the clothes box one the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":499.102,"endTime":502.466,"body":"stage make some excuse to leave"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":502.51800000000003,"endTime":505.77700000000004,"body":"the room, they've got to go and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":502.51800000000003,"endTime":505.77700000000004,"body":"take a call or do some work or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":505.82899999999995,"endTime":508.92999999999995,"body":"something, and the child sees"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":505.82899999999995,"endTime":508.92999999999995,"body":"the stage, leave the room and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":508.98199999999997,"endTime":512.188,"body":"close the door. So now in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":508.98199999999997,"endTime":512.188,"body":"room, it's just a child and the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":512.24,"endTime":515.341,"body":"researcher, then the researcher"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":512.24,"endTime":515.341,"body":"opens box one takes out the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":515.394,"endTime":518.389,"body":"crayons, puts them in box two,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":515.394,"endTime":518.389,"body":"and closes the lid of both"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":518.442,"endTime":521.805,"body":"boxes. So the crayons are now in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":518.442,"endTime":521.805,"body":"box two, and the child has seen"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":521.858,"endTime":525.063,"body":"the crayons transfer from Box"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":521.858,"endTime":525.063,"body":"One, box two, then they call in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":525.116,"endTime":528.269,"body":"this stage, the research asked"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":525.116,"endTime":528.269,"body":"the child, if the adult wants"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":528.322,"endTime":531.632,"body":"the crayons, which box will they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":528.322,"endTime":531.632,"body":"go to, there'll be for the age"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":531.685,"endTime":534.838,"body":"of about four or five. At an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":531.685,"endTime":534.838,"body":"early stage of development, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":534.891,"endTime":538.201,"body":"child knows that the crayons are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":534.891,"endTime":538.201,"body":"in box two, and the child will"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":538.254,"endTime":541.092,"body":"say the adult will look at box"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":538.254,"endTime":541.092,"body":"two, because they don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":541.144,"endTime":544.403,"body":"appreciate that although they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":541.144,"endTime":544.403,"body":"know the truth, the other person"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":544.455,"endTime":547.451,"body":"doesn't know the truth, they can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":544.455,"endTime":547.451,"body":"have a false belief. Now"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":547.503,"endTime":550.446,"body":"obviously, when the students"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":547.503,"endTime":550.446,"body":"left the room, they saw the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":550.499,"endTime":553.652,"body":"crayons going into box one and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":550.499,"endTime":553.652,"body":"they haven't seen the crayons"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":553.704,"endTime":556.752,"body":"been transferred from one box to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":553.704,"endTime":556.752,"body":"the other. When the child"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":556.805,"endTime":560.116,"body":"reaches about age four, h five,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":556.805,"endTime":560.116,"body":"they start to develop that more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":560.168,"endTime":563.164,"body":"complex thinking they can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":560.168,"endTime":563.164,"body":"understand that the student can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":563.216,"endTime":566.212,"body":"have a belief that isn't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":563.216,"endTime":566.212,"body":"correct. And this is sort of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":566.264,"endTime":569.418,"body":"turning point, the child will"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":566.264,"endTime":569.418,"body":"start to say well, the student"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":569.47,"endTime":572.466,"body":"will look in box one, but"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":569.47,"endTime":572.466,"body":"actually we move them when they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":572.518,"endTime":575.882,"body":"weren't looking screening shown"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":572.518,"endTime":575.882,"body":"that kids with autism find false"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":575.934,"endTime":578.93,"body":"belief really hard, appreciating"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":575.934,"endTime":578.93,"body":"that someone can believe"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":578.982,"endTime":581.873,"body":"something's not true, or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":578.982,"endTime":581.873,"body":"something different from them."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":581.925,"endTime":585.026,"body":"And they go on to find coping"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":581.925,"endTime":585.026,"body":"with the idea of false belief"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":585.078,"endTime":586.34,"body":"hard even later in life."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":586.34,"endTime":589.262,"body":"And these are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":586.34,"endTime":589.262,"body":"really important skills, because"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":589.326,"endTime":592.948,"body":"they help us to engage socially"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":589.326,"endTime":592.948,"body":"with the group help us to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":593.011,"endTime":596.887,"body":"predict what people do and what"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":593.011,"endTime":596.887,"body":"their intentions are. So it's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":596.951,"endTime":600.192,"body":"really understanding those"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":596.951,"endTime":600.192,"body":"subtle nuances of social"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":600.255,"endTime":603.813,"body":"interaction. And without the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":600.255,"endTime":603.813,"body":"skills the world is quite a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":603.8770000000001,"endTime":607.626,"body":"scary place. Because people"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":603.8770000000001,"endTime":607.626,"body":"appear to be unpredictable, and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":607.69,"endTime":611.693,"body":"may even behave in a way that we"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":607.69,"endTime":611.693,"body":"find threatening. And this can"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":611.756,"endTime":615.759,"body":"lead to a buildup of anxiety and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":611.756,"endTime":615.759,"body":"stress. Some children can mask"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":615.823,"endTime":619.635,"body":"the lack of empathy by learning"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":615.823,"endTime":619.635,"body":"by rote what to do or say in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":619.6990000000001,"endTime":623.511,"body":"certain social situations. So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":619.6990000000001,"endTime":623.511,"body":"for example, some children, if"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":623.575,"endTime":627.26,"body":"they hurt, somebody will say"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":623.575,"endTime":627.26,"body":"sorry, because they know that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":627.3240000000001,"endTime":631.136,"body":"that's the socially acceptable"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":627.3240000000001,"endTime":631.136,"body":"thing to do. But they're just"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":631.2,"endTime":634.9490000000001,"body":"saying it by rote. And they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":631.2,"endTime":634.9490000000001,"body":"don't actually feel sorry, they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":635.0120000000001,"endTime":638.888,"body":"haven't got the feeling behind"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":635.0120000000001,"endTime":638.888,"body":"it. So although we might think"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":638.952,"endTime":642.892,"body":"that they are socially skilled,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":638.952,"endTime":642.892,"body":"actually, they've just learned"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":642.955,"endTime":646.577,"body":"to say something by rote that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":642.955,"endTime":646.577,"body":"they know gets the positive"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":646.6410000000001,"endTime":650.39,"body":"response, and they don't really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":646.6410000000001,"endTime":650.39,"body":"have the feeling behind it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":650.39,"endTime":652.9830000000001,"body":"So let's think"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":650.39,"endTime":652.9830000000001,"body":"about teaching empathy, how do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":653.041,"endTime":656.673,"body":"we teach these skills to kids?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":653.041,"endTime":656.673,"body":"Well, the first thing to accept,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":656.73,"endTime":660.246,"body":"as Emma's just mentioned is some"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":656.73,"endTime":660.246,"body":"kids simply may not have the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":660.304,"endTime":663.763,"body":"neural circuitry to do this,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":660.304,"endTime":663.763,"body":"their mirror neurons simply may"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":663.82,"endTime":667.164,"body":"not be active enough. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":663.82,"endTime":667.164,"body":"there's actually a term for this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":667.221,"endTime":670.5070000000001,"body":"called Mind blindness. So it may"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":667.221,"endTime":670.5070000000001,"body":"be we have to teach them"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":670.565,"endTime":674.081,"body":"workaround skills. Maybe we have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":670.565,"endTime":674.081,"body":"to teach them to give a rote"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":674.138,"endTime":677.597,"body":"answers to fit into society,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":674.138,"endTime":677.597,"body":"rather than having some sort of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":677.655,"endTime":681.344,"body":"deeper understanding about what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":677.655,"endTime":681.344,"body":"the other people are thinking or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":681.4010000000001,"endTime":684.572,"body":"feeling. The first step when"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":681.4010000000001,"endTime":684.572,"body":"we're teaching empathy, of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":684.629,"endTime":687.6850000000001,"body":"course is to help the child"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":684.629,"endTime":687.6850000000001,"body":"understand that their own"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":687.7420000000001,"endTime":691.258,"body":"emotions if they can't label if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":687.7420000000001,"endTime":691.258,"body":"they can't link the emotions,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":691.316,"endTime":694.89,"body":"the feelings they're having in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":691.316,"endTime":694.89,"body":"their body to basic labels like"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":694.948,"endTime":698.5210000000001,"body":"happiness, sadness, excitement,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":694.948,"endTime":698.5210000000001,"body":"anger, upset, then they're not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":698.5790000000001,"endTime":702.211,"body":"going to be able to do that with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":698.5790000000001,"endTime":702.211,"body":"someone else. So to understand"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":702.268,"endTime":705.323,"body":"someone else's emotions, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":702.268,"endTime":705.323,"body":"first have to be able to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":705.381,"endTime":709.0120000000001,"body":"recognize what you're feeling,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":705.381,"endTime":709.0120000000001,"body":"and place a label on it for your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":709.07,"endTime":709.82,"body":"own emotions."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":709.82,"endTime":712.481,"body":"And teaching"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":709.82,"endTime":712.481,"body":"empathy is often about going"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":712.546,"endTime":716.441,"body":"back and being explicit about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":712.546,"endTime":716.441,"body":"the skills children develop in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":716.506,"endTime":719.817,"body":"the early years. And some"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":716.506,"endTime":719.817,"body":"children even quite older"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":719.8820000000001,"endTime":724.101,"body":"children do need to revisit this"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":719.8820000000001,"endTime":724.101,"body":"with the way that we can do that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":724.166,"endTime":727.736,"body":"is by role modeling and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":724.166,"endTime":727.736,"body":"explaining scenarios from other"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":727.801,"endTime":731.826,"body":"people's perspectives. And we'll"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":727.801,"endTime":731.826,"body":"have to do this over and over"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":731.8910000000001,"endTime":735.721,"body":"again, this isn't something that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":731.8910000000001,"endTime":735.721,"body":"can be taught in a one off"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":735.7860000000001,"endTime":737.02,"body":"lesson for example."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":739.0400000000001,"endTime":741.602,"body":"And that was"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":739.0400000000001,"endTime":741.602,"body":"Emma and I discussing the stages"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":741.659,"endTime":745.018,"body":"that children go through to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":741.659,"endTime":745.018,"body":"develop empathy and what we can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":745.075,"endTime":747.979,"body":"do to help them foster"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":745.075,"endTime":747.979,"body":"connections with their peers"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":748.0360000000001,"endTime":751.3960000000001,"body":"develop collaborative skills,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":748.0360000000001,"endTime":751.3960000000001,"body":"and ultimately achieve social"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":751.452,"endTime":754.755,"body":"success in the classroom. For"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":751.452,"endTime":754.755,"body":"more strategies and a deeper"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":754.812,"endTime":758.2280000000001,"body":"understanding of the various"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":754.812,"endTime":758.2280000000001,"body":"strands of empathy, then simply"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":758.285,"endTime":761.816,"body":"click the link that goes with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":758.285,"endTime":761.816,"body":"this podcast episode description"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":761.8720000000001,"endTime":765.1750000000001,"body":"to head back to the original"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":761.8720000000001,"endTime":765.1750000000001,"body":"episode. If you found today's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":765.232,"endTime":768.705,"body":"episode helpful or valuable,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":765.232,"endTime":768.705,"body":"please take a moment to rate and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":768.7620000000001,"endTime":772.008,"body":"review us. It really makes a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":768.7620000000001,"endTime":772.008,"body":"difference. It takes just 30"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":772.065,"endTime":775.0260000000001,"body":"seconds and when you do, it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":772.065,"endTime":775.0260000000001,"body":"prompts the algorithm to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":775.083,"endTime":778.385,"body":"recommend School Behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":775.083,"endTime":778.385,"body":"Secrets to other listeners, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":778.442,"endTime":782.029,"body":"that helps us grow the podcast"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":778.442,"endTime":782.029,"body":"and reach other teachers, school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":782.086,"endTime":785.332,"body":"leaders and parents who need"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":782.086,"endTime":785.332,"body":"this information. Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":785.389,"endTime":788.748,"body":"listening today, and I look"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":785.389,"endTime":788.748,"body":"forward to seeing you next time"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":788.8050000000001,"endTime":790.4,"body":"on School Behaviour Secrets."}]}