{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.35,"endTime":89.57,"body":"SEMH"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.35,"endTime":89.57,"body":"enthusiasts, what are your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":89.57,"endTime":92.96,"body":"thoughts on behaviour charts? Do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":89.57,"endTime":92.96,"body":"you think that they're effective"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":92.96,"endTime":97.16,"body":"in recognizing a nurturing good"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":92.96,"endTime":97.16,"body":"behaviour? Or do you feel that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":97.16,"endTime":101.6,"body":"they cast an unintended shadow"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":97.16,"endTime":101.6,"body":"publicly shaming kids with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":101.6,"endTime":105.58999999999999,"body":"behavioural needs? Let's dig"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":101.6,"endTime":105.58999999999999,"body":"into the truth in this week's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":105.58999999999999,"endTime":108.32,"body":"essentials episode of School"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":105.58999999999999,"endTime":108.32,"body":"Behaviour Secrets."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":108.5,"endTime":112.61,"body":"Welcome to the School Behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":108.5,"endTime":112.61,"body":"Secrets podcast. I'm your host,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":112.61,"endTime":115.66999999999999,"body":"Simon Currigan. My co host is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":112.61,"endTime":115.66999999999999,"body":"Emma Shackleton. And we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":115.69999999999999,"endTime":119.33,"body":"obsessed with helping teachers,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":115.69999999999999,"endTime":119.33,"body":"school leaders, parents, and of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":119.33,"endTime":122.57,"body":"course, students when classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":119.33,"endTime":122.57,"body":"behaviour gets in the way of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":122.57,"endTime":125.47999999999999,"body":"success. We're going to share"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":122.57,"endTime":125.47999999999999,"body":"the tried and tested secrets to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":125.47999999999999,"endTime":128.26999999999998,"body":"classroom management,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":125.47999999999999,"endTime":128.26999999999998,"body":"behavioural special needs, whole"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":128.26999999999998,"endTime":131.48,"body":"school strategy, and more all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":128.26999999999998,"endTime":131.48,"body":"with the aim of helping your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":131.48,"endTime":134.57,"body":"students reach their true"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":131.48,"endTime":134.57,"body":"potential. Plus, we'll be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":134.57,"endTime":137.63,"body":"letting you eavesdrop on our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":134.57,"endTime":137.63,"body":"conversations with thought"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":137.63,"endTime":141.35,"body":"leaders from around the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":137.63,"endTime":141.35,"body":"So you'll get to hear the latest"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":141.35,"endTime":145.73,"body":"evidence based strategies before"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":141.35,"endTime":145.73,"body":"anyone else. This is the School"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":145.73,"endTime":147.62,"body":"Behaviour Secrets podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":148.16,"endTime":150.95,"body":"Hi there, Simon Currigan here"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":148.16,"endTime":150.95,"body":"and welcome to another pint"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":150.95,"endTime":154.01,"body":"sized essentials episode of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":150.95,"endTime":154.01,"body":"School Behaviour Secrets, where"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":154.01,"endTime":157.01,"body":"we share with you some key"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":154.01,"endTime":157.01,"body":"strategies from an earlier"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":157.01,"endTime":160.43,"body":"episode that you can use to have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":157.01,"endTime":160.43,"body":"an immediate impact on the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":160.43,"endTime":163.51999999999998,"body":"students that you work with."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":160.43,"endTime":163.51999999999998,"body":"Just before we go any further,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":163.51999999999998,"endTime":166.43,"body":"I'd like to remind you that if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":163.51999999999998,"endTime":166.43,"body":"you enjoy listening today and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":166.43,"endTime":169.67,"body":"you're enjoying this podcast,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":166.43,"endTime":169.67,"body":"please do remember to subscribe,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":169.82,"endTime":172.94,"body":"so you never miss another"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":169.82,"endTime":172.94,"body":"episode. Today I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":172.94,"endTime":176.06,"body":"share part of a conversation I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":172.94,"endTime":176.06,"body":"had with my co host Emma"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":176.06,"endTime":179.32999999999998,"body":"Shackleton, where we considered"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":176.06,"endTime":179.32999999999998,"body":"the pros and cons of behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":179.32999999999998,"endTime":183.92,"body":"charts as a tool to manage whole"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":179.32999999999998,"endTime":183.92,"body":"class behaviour. We look at"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":183.92,"endTime":186.8,"body":"whether charts are a great way"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":183.92,"endTime":186.8,"body":"of providing recognition for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":186.8,"endTime":192.44,"body":"good behaviour, or if they just"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":186.8,"endTime":192.44,"body":"in fact, publicly shame kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":192.44,"endTime":195.2,"body":"with behaviour needs. We're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":192.44,"endTime":195.2,"body":"going to join the discussion"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":195.38,"endTime":199.04,"body":"midway through original episode"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":195.38,"endTime":199.04,"body":"number 44."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":201.62,"endTime":204.35,"body":"Okay, here's another case"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":201.62,"endTime":204.35,"body":"against and this is a big one,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":204.62,"endTime":208.25,"body":"public shaming, I want you to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":204.62,"endTime":208.25,"body":"imagine as an adult, you're at"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":208.25,"endTime":211.55,"body":"work, would you want to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":208.25,"endTime":211.55,"body":"publicly shamed by your boss in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":211.55,"endTime":213.89,"body":"the middle of the staff room?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":211.55,"endTime":213.89,"body":"Would you let your head teacher"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":213.89,"endTime":217.07,"body":"or your line manager, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":213.89,"endTime":217.07,"body":"to suddenly stand up in front of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":217.07,"endTime":221.51,"body":"everyone and say to you, Emma,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":217.07,"endTime":221.51,"body":"Simon, whatever your name is,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":221.54,"endTime":225.82999999999998,"body":"your reports were late, I want"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":221.54,"endTime":225.82999999999998,"body":"you to walk across the room and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":225.82999999999998,"endTime":228.44,"body":"take a little picture of your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":225.82999999999998,"endTime":228.44,"body":"face or name and move it from"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":228.44,"endTime":231.01999999999998,"body":"the you know, the privileged"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":228.44,"endTime":231.01999999999998,"body":"happy side of the board to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":231.01999999999998,"endTime":235.22,"body":"sad side of the board, we would"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":231.01999999999998,"endTime":235.22,"body":"feel crushing embarrassment as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":235.22,"endTime":237.92,"body":"adults. And that's where the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":235.22,"endTime":237.92,"body":"survey comes in. At the start of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":237.92,"endTime":240.41,"body":"the program. It's all about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":237.92,"endTime":240.41,"body":"things that people have done"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":240.41,"endTime":243.53,"body":"that made them feel embarrassed."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":240.41,"endTime":243.53,"body":"But actually, as adults in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":243.53,"endTime":247.19,"body":"classroom, we need to think"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":243.53,"endTime":247.19,"body":"about, does public shaming help"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":247.19,"endTime":250.25,"body":"our kids learn from their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":247.19,"endTime":250.25,"body":"behaviour? Or do they just"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":250.25,"endTime":252.65,"body":"become more entrenched and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":250.25,"endTime":252.65,"body":"batten down the hatches and stop"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":252.65,"endTime":255.44,"body":"engaging in reward charts"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":252.65,"endTime":255.44,"body":"because they feel that they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":255.44,"endTime":257.78,"body":"not for them, that they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":255.44,"endTime":257.78,"body":"excluded from them. And that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":257.78,"endTime":260.87,"body":"everyone is looking at them"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":257.78,"endTime":260.87,"body":"interactive systems, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":260.87,"endTime":265.34000000000003,"body":"things like Class Dojo, even"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":260.87,"endTime":265.34000000000003,"body":"alert everyone else, that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":265.34000000000003,"endTime":267.65,"body":"someone's being shamed in class"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":265.34000000000003,"endTime":267.65,"body":"with sound effects and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":267.65,"endTime":270.40999999999997,"body":"animations. It's almost like"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":267.65,"endTime":270.40999999999997,"body":"getting a big one, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":270.40999999999997,"endTime":273.74,"body":"like on a game show when you get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":270.40999999999997,"endTime":273.74,"body":"a question wrong. And we really"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":273.74,"endTime":277.88,"body":"need to be thinking about is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":273.74,"endTime":277.88,"body":"using public shaming, effective"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":277.90999999999997,"endTime":280.13,"body":"at changing the behaviour of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":277.90999999999997,"endTime":280.13,"body":"children. And I think the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":280.13,"endTime":283.1,"body":"experience for the last 20 3040"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":280.13,"endTime":283.1,"body":"years is it isn't,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":283.25,"endTime":286.43,"body":"I would agree,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":283.25,"endTime":286.43,"body":"actually. And we do always talk"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":286.43,"endTime":289.97,"body":"about giving praise in public"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":286.43,"endTime":289.97,"body":"and criticizing in private. So I"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":289.97,"endTime":293.75,"body":"think we have moved a long way"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":289.97,"endTime":293.75,"body":"in our education systems. So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":293.75,"endTime":298.19,"body":"maybe it's actually more about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":293.75,"endTime":298.19,"body":"how the charts are used, perhaps"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":298.19,"endTime":302.06,"body":"we should give positive"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":298.19,"endTime":302.06,"body":"reinforcement, but remove the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":302.06,"endTime":305.9,"body":"negative elements and use"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":302.06,"endTime":305.9,"body":"private feedback when we're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":305.9,"endTime":309.62,"body":"dealing with the negative so we"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":305.9,"endTime":309.62,"body":"can have the chart for moving up"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":309.62,"endTime":312.68,"body":"and for recognizing the good"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":309.62,"endTime":312.68,"body":"stuff. But actually, we don't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":312.68,"endTime":316.4,"body":"move children down. And instead"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":312.68,"endTime":316.4,"body":"we use relationships and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":316.4,"endTime":319.90999999999997,"body":"conversations to deal with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":316.4,"endTime":319.90999999999997,"body":"negative behaviour. What about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":319.90999999999997,"endTime":320.27,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":320.29999999999995,"endTime":322.49,"body":"I completely"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":320.29999999999995,"endTime":322.49,"body":"agree that's the way to tackle"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":322.49,"endTime":326.03,"body":"negative behaviour, but then you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":322.49,"endTime":326.03,"body":"still have the problem of that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":326.03,"endTime":329.53999999999996,"body":"big class display chart. And you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":326.03,"endTime":329.53999999999996,"body":"have the same names and faces"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":329.53999999999996,"endTime":333.23,"body":"stuck at the bottom of a board."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":329.53999999999996,"endTime":333.23,"body":"So imagine I saw one once in a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":333.23,"endTime":335.53999999999996,"body":"classroom that was like a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":333.23,"endTime":335.53999999999996,"body":"racetrack where children moved"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":335.53999999999996,"endTime":338.81,"body":"around squares on a racetrack."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":335.53999999999996,"endTime":338.81,"body":"Poor old Darren will be still be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":338.81,"endTime":341.39,"body":"on the starting line while the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":338.81,"endTime":341.39,"body":"other kids are lapping him over"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":341.39,"endTime":345.55999999999995,"body":"and over every day. So it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":341.39,"endTime":345.55999999999995,"body":"still very public and obvious,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":345.83000000000004,"endTime":348.74,"body":"which kids are acing it and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":345.83000000000004,"endTime":348.74,"body":"which kids are struggling to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":348.74,"endTime":350.72,"body":"meet the behaviour expectations"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":348.74,"endTime":350.72,"body":"in class."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":350.75,"endTime":353.24,"body":"But teachers do"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":350.75,"endTime":353.24,"body":"have the option of course of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":353.24,"endTime":357.40999999999997,"body":"using individual charts to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":353.24,"endTime":357.40999999999997,"body":"support individual children. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":357.40999999999997,"endTime":361.46000000000004,"body":"these can be really motivating"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":357.40999999999997,"endTime":361.46000000000004,"body":"and effective when they're used"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":361.46000000000004,"endTime":364.90999999999997,"body":"in the same way, but it's done"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":361.46000000000004,"endTime":364.90999999999997,"body":"more privately. So rather than"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":364.90999999999997,"endTime":368.78,"body":"that public display, it can be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":364.90999999999997,"endTime":368.78,"body":"helpful to have an individual"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":368.78,"endTime":372.40999999999997,"body":"race track for a particular"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":368.78,"endTime":372.40999999999997,"body":"child with a really clear target"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":372.47,"endTime":376.88,"body":"and really clear, taught"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":372.47,"endTime":376.88,"body":"behaviours so the children know"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":376.88,"endTime":379.97,"body":"what they need to do to move"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":376.88,"endTime":379.97,"body":"along that track. And then we're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":379.97,"endTime":383.53999999999996,"body":"setting the children up to be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":379.97,"endTime":383.53999999999996,"body":"successful. That can be really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":383.53999999999996,"endTime":387.26,"body":"helpful, but I get what you're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":383.53999999999996,"endTime":387.26,"body":"saying. It's not then on public"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":387.28999999999996,"endTime":391.22,"body":"You where everyone can see who's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":387.28999999999996,"endTime":391.22,"body":"crushing it and who's really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":391.22,"endTime":391.78999999999996,"body":"struggling."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":391.82000000000005,"endTime":393.875,"body":"I want to talk"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":391.82000000000005,"endTime":393.875,"body":"about now, the issue around"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":393.924,"endTime":396.028,"body":"behaviour tracks in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":393.924,"endTime":396.028,"body":"particularly, these are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":396.077,"endTime":399.15999999999997,"body":"behaviour charts where if you do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":396.077,"endTime":399.15999999999997,"body":"something wrong, you get moved"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":399.20899999999995,"endTime":402.24299999999994,"body":"down the chart. And then if you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":399.20899999999995,"endTime":402.24299999999994,"body":"do something positive, you get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":402.29200000000003,"endTime":405.278,"body":"moved back up the chart, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":402.29200000000003,"endTime":405.278,"body":"this sends the message moving up"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":405.327,"endTime":407.96900000000005,"body":"and down, sends the message,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":405.327,"endTime":407.96900000000005,"body":"right, that a good action"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":408.01800000000003,"endTime":410.759,"body":"cancels out a bad one. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":408.01800000000003,"endTime":410.759,"body":"that's just not how the world"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":410.808,"endTime":413.89099999999996,"body":"works. If you do some harm, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":410.808,"endTime":413.89099999999996,"body":"have to repair the harm. But it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":413.93999999999994,"endTime":416.778,"body":"kind of says the message."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":413.93999999999994,"endTime":416.778,"body":"Imagine the situation where if I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":416.827,"endTime":419.861,"body":"went out now, and I assaulted"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":416.827,"endTime":419.861,"body":"someone in the street, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":419.90999999999997,"endTime":422.798,"body":"did something awful and robbed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":419.90999999999997,"endTime":422.798,"body":"their money. But then when I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":422.847,"endTime":425.63599999999997,"body":"went to court, the judge said,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":422.847,"endTime":425.63599999999997,"body":"you know, you've done this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":425.68499999999995,"endTime":428.66999999999996,"body":"terrible thing, do you own up to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":425.68499999999995,"endTime":428.66999999999996,"body":"it, yes, or you're assaulted"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":428.71900000000005,"endTime":431.754,"body":"this person, it was a bad thing."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":428.71900000000005,"endTime":431.754,"body":"But if I then said, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":431.803,"endTime":434.64099999999996,"body":"I've donated 1000 pounds to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":431.803,"endTime":434.64099999999996,"body":"charity, the judge doesn't go,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":434.68999999999994,"endTime":437.43100000000004,"body":"Well, you know, those two"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":434.68999999999994,"endTime":437.43100000000004,"body":"actions cancel each other out,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":437.47900000000004,"endTime":440.36699999999996,"body":"everything's fine. You know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":437.47900000000004,"endTime":440.36699999999996,"body":"there are consequences for bad"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":440.41599999999994,"endTime":443.352,"body":"actions. And we have to repair"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":440.41599999999994,"endTime":443.352,"body":"the harm. But it's not like a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":443.40099999999995,"endTime":446.48400000000004,"body":"tit for tat thing, you see this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":443.40099999999995,"endTime":446.48400000000004,"body":"in class, you'll see some kids,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":446.533,"endTime":449.17600000000004,"body":"you know, engage in some really"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":446.533,"endTime":449.17600000000004,"body":"difficult, disruptive,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":449.225,"endTime":452.21000000000004,"body":"challenging behaviour for 50"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":449.225,"endTime":452.21000000000004,"body":"minutes, they get moved down the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":452.259,"endTime":455.293,"body":"chart, but then they feel like,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":452.259,"endTime":455.293,"body":"well, if I do a couple of good"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":455.342,"endTime":458.47400000000005,"body":"things, at the end, in the last"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":455.342,"endTime":458.47400000000005,"body":"five minutes, you get moved back"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":458.523,"endTime":461.313,"body":"up, and everything's reset,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":458.523,"endTime":461.313,"body":"everything's good. And that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":461.36199999999997,"endTime":464.249,"body":"just not how life works. It"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":461.36199999999997,"endTime":464.249,"body":"gives a false representation of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":464.298,"endTime":464.68999999999994,"body":"the day."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":464.72,"endTime":467.23799999999994,"body":"Okay, but one"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":464.72,"endTime":467.23799999999994,"body":"way that is useful to use a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":467.299,"endTime":470.80100000000004,"body":"behaviour track type system is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":467.299,"endTime":470.80100000000004,"body":"to help those children who"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":470.86199999999997,"endTime":474.855,"body":"sometimes feel like when they've"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":470.86199999999997,"endTime":474.855,"body":"made a mistake, then the rest of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":474.91599999999994,"endTime":478.47900000000004,"body":"the days are right off. So maybe"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":474.91599999999994,"endTime":478.47900000000004,"body":"children with quite fixed"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":478.54099999999994,"endTime":481.981,"body":"thinking traits, perhaps"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":478.54099999999994,"endTime":481.981,"body":"children with autism, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":482.04200000000003,"endTime":485.851,"body":"they might get told off, or they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":482.04200000000003,"endTime":485.851,"body":"do something wrong at quarter"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":485.91200000000003,"endTime":489.413,"body":"past nine, and the rest of the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":485.91200000000003,"endTime":489.413,"body":"day feels like a write off"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":489.475,"endTime":492.91499999999996,"body":"because they don't recognize"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":489.475,"endTime":492.91499999999996,"body":"that actually, they can put"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":492.976,"endTime":496.908,"body":"things right, and they can move"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":492.976,"endTime":496.908,"body":"on, and they can earn rewards in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":496.96900000000005,"endTime":500.28599999999994,"body":"the rest of the day. So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":496.96900000000005,"endTime":500.28599999999994,"body":"sometimes a chart type system,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":500.34799999999996,"endTime":503.84900000000005,"body":"particularly an individual"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":500.34799999999996,"endTime":503.84900000000005,"body":"chart, broken down into chunks"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":503.90999999999997,"endTime":507.596,"body":"can be a really great way of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":503.90999999999997,"endTime":507.596,"body":"helping children to understand,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":507.65700000000004,"endTime":511.34299999999996,"body":"okay, that behaviour happened,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":507.65700000000004,"endTime":511.34299999999996,"body":"or that lesson was a bit of a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":511.404,"endTime":515.274,"body":"disaster, but you've always got"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":511.404,"endTime":515.274,"body":"the chance to turn it round, we"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":515.336,"endTime":519.021,"body":"can put it right, we can start"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":515.336,"endTime":519.021,"body":"afresh. And using charts that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":519.083,"endTime":522.216,"body":"are actually chunked into"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":519.083,"endTime":522.216,"body":"sections. Maybe lesson by"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":522.277,"endTime":525.594,"body":"lesson, for example, is a great"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":522.277,"endTime":525.594,"body":"way of giving multiple"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":525.656,"endTime":529.587,"body":"opportunities for a fresh start"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":525.656,"endTime":529.587,"body":"throughout the day. And that can"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":529.648,"endTime":533.273,"body":"help those children who feel"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":529.648,"endTime":533.273,"body":"like the days written off when"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":533.334,"endTime":536.651,"body":"they've made their first"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":533.334,"endTime":536.651,"body":"mistake. So what we're saying"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":536.713,"endTime":540.153,"body":"is, yes, there was a mistake,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":536.713,"endTime":540.153,"body":"yes, something happened or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":540.2139999999999,"endTime":543.715,"body":"something went wrong. Let's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":540.2139999999999,"endTime":543.715,"body":"think about how we can put it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":543.777,"endTime":547.585,"body":"right, let's start afresh, let's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":543.777,"endTime":547.585,"body":"move forward with the rest of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":547.647,"endTime":551.21,"body":"the day, we're giving children"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":547.647,"endTime":551.21,"body":"the power to turn their day"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":551.271,"endTime":555.08,"body":"around, they don't just need to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":551.271,"endTime":555.08,"body":"be a victim of their mistakes."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":555.08,"endTime":557.273,"body":"I think for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":555.08,"endTime":557.273,"body":"negative behaviour, what we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":557.329,"endTime":560.703,"body":"really have to ask here is, is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":557.329,"endTime":560.703,"body":"the child in control of their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":560.759,"endTime":564.021,"body":"behaviour? Look, that's the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":560.759,"endTime":564.021,"body":"million dollar question, isn't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":564.077,"endTime":567.452,"body":"it? Are they making behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":564.077,"endTime":567.452,"body":"choices? In which case rewards"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":567.508,"endTime":570.601,"body":"and consequences are the way"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":567.508,"endTime":570.601,"body":"forward? Go for it? But if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":570.657,"endTime":573.8629999999999,"body":"there's something more if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":570.657,"endTime":573.8629999999999,"body":"there's something underlying if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":573.919,"endTime":577.518,"body":"the behaviour to some extent is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":573.919,"endTime":577.518,"body":"out of their control, is it fair"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":577.574,"endTime":580.442,"body":"to approach their behaviour in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":577.574,"endTime":580.442,"body":"this way, if they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":580.499,"endTime":583.985,"body":"experiencing high stress or high"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":580.499,"endTime":583.985,"body":"anxiety, they're being pushed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":584.0409999999999,"endTime":587.641,"body":"towards fight or flight? They've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":584.0409999999999,"endTime":587.641,"body":"stopped using that logical part"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":587.697,"endTime":590.79,"body":"of their brain? They're firing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":587.697,"endTime":590.79,"body":"on emotion and automatic"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":590.846,"endTime":594.052,"body":"behaviours? Is it fair to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":590.846,"endTime":594.052,"body":"approach that kind of behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":594.108,"endTime":597.201,"body":"in the same way as someone who"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":594.108,"endTime":597.201,"body":"is making you know, cold"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":597.257,"endTime":600.238,"body":"calculated decisions about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":597.257,"endTime":600.238,"body":"behaviour or maybe pushing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":600.294,"endTime":603.612,"body":"social boundaries to see what's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":600.294,"endTime":603.612,"body":"acceptable in class? So you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":603.668,"endTime":606.592,"body":"know, take someone who's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":603.668,"endTime":606.592,"body":"swearing with Tourette's or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":606.649,"endTime":609.967,"body":"inattentiveness in a child with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":606.649,"endTime":609.967,"body":"ADHD, if that's how they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":610.023,"endTime":613.116,"body":"physically wired, we need to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":610.023,"endTime":613.116,"body":"address the behaviour with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":613.172,"endTime":616.827,"body":"support strategies. We shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":613.172,"endTime":616.827,"body":"be punishing kids for behaviours"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":616.884,"endTime":620.258,"body":"that are physically beyond their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":616.884,"endTime":620.258,"body":"control. And even kids with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":620.3140000000001,"endTime":623.801,"body":"underlying conditions bring a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":620.3140000000001,"endTime":623.801,"body":"mix. I do appreciate that. So we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":623.857,"endTime":626.725,"body":"have to be using our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":623.857,"endTime":626.725,"body":"professional judgment to think"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":626.7810000000001,"endTime":629.987,"body":"about is the behaviour we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":626.7810000000001,"endTime":629.987,"body":"seeing in class driven by an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":630.043,"endTime":633.6990000000001,"body":"underlying need? Or is the child"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":630.043,"endTime":633.6990000000001,"body":"making choices at the moment and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":633.755,"endTime":634.88,"body":"react appropriately."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":634.88,"endTime":638.158,"body":"And if you'd like to know more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":634.88,"endTime":638.158,"body":"about this topic, all you need"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":638.212,"endTime":641.0070000000001,"body":"to do is click the link at the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":638.212,"endTime":641.0070000000001,"body":"bottom of the episode"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":641.0600000000001,"endTime":644.5,"body":"description to head back to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":641.0600000000001,"endTime":644.5,"body":"original podcast episode. That's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":644.554,"endTime":647.725,"body":"episode number 44. If you found"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":644.554,"endTime":647.725,"body":"today's episode helpful, do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":647.778,"endTime":651.003,"body":"please take a moment to rate and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":647.778,"endTime":651.003,"body":"review us. It takes just 30"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":651.057,"endTime":653.852,"body":"seconds and when you do, it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":651.057,"endTime":653.852,"body":"prompts the algorithm to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":653.9060000000001,"endTime":657.023,"body":"recommend School Behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":653.9060000000001,"endTime":657.023,"body":"Secrets to other listeners, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":657.077,"endTime":660.462,"body":"that helps us grow the podcast"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":657.077,"endTime":660.462,"body":"and reach other teachers, school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":660.5160000000001,"endTime":663.902,"body":"leaders and parents. Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":660.5160000000001,"endTime":663.902,"body":"listening and I look forward to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":663.956,"endTime":666.59,"body":"seeing you next time on School"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":663.956,"endTime":666.59,"body":"Behaviour Secrets."}]}