{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.58999999999999,"endTime":89.47999999999999,"body":"If you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.58999999999999,"endTime":89.47999999999999,"body":"working with children that avoid"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":89.47999999999999,"endTime":92.3,"body":"tasks, you know, the ones that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":89.47999999999999,"endTime":92.3,"body":"take foot ever to sharpen their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":92.3,"endTime":94.75999999999999,"body":"pencil and arrange their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":92.3,"endTime":94.75999999999999,"body":"resources before they actually"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":94.75999999999999,"endTime":97.13,"body":"get down and do some work, it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":94.75999999999999,"endTime":97.13,"body":"important to know the difference"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":97.13,"endTime":100.85,"body":"between task avoidance or demand"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":97.13,"endTime":100.85,"body":"avoidance, which is something"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":100.85,"endTime":104.11999999999999,"body":"that all children engage with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":100.85,"endTime":104.11999999999999,"body":"from time to time, which is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":104.11999999999999,"endTime":107.69,"body":"perfectly natural from"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":104.11999999999999,"endTime":107.69,"body":"pathological demand avoidance,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":107.72,"endTime":110.99,"body":"which is something very, very"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":107.72,"endTime":110.99,"body":"specific indeed and need"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":110.99,"endTime":114.64999999999999,"body":"specific support strategies."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":110.99,"endTime":114.64999999999999,"body":"Find out more about that in this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":114.64999999999999,"endTime":116.63,"body":"week's episode of school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":114.64999999999999,"endTime":116.63,"body":"behaviour secrets."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":116.81,"endTime":120.91999999999999,"body":"Welcome to the school behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":116.81,"endTime":120.91999999999999,"body":"secrets podcast. 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What"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":177.44,"endTime":179.39,"body":"does that even mean?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":179.63,"endTime":182.18,"body":"Those who know"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":179.63,"endTime":182.18,"body":"and know that was the voice of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":182.18,"endTime":184.67,"body":"my co host, Emma Shackleton. Hi,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":182.18,"endTime":184.67,"body":"Emma, how are you doing?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":184.73,"endTime":186.05,"body":"I'm good."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":184.73,"endTime":186.05,"body":"Thanks. I haven't got a clue"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":186.05,"endTime":187.85,"body":"what you were talking about in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":186.05,"endTime":187.85,"body":"the intro, though."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":188.95999999999998,"endTime":190.67,"body":"Google it? If"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":188.95999999999998,"endTime":190.67,"body":"you listen to this, and you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":190.67,"endTime":193.91,"body":"don't know Google, up, up, down,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":190.67,"endTime":193.91,"body":"down, left, left, right, right."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":193.94,"endTime":195.8,"body":"That's as much as you need to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":193.94,"endTime":195.8,"body":"Google and you'll find out"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":195.82999999999998,"endTime":200.51,"body":"exactly what I'm talking about."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":195.82999999999998,"endTime":200.51,"body":"Before we get into the podcast"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":200.51,"endTime":202.79,"body":"itself today. 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So I"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":225.31,"endTime":229.39,"body":"go out of my way to avoid doing"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":229.39,"endTime":232.54,"body":"maths wherever possible."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":229.39,"endTime":232.54,"body":"Usually, I'll get someone who's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":232.54,"endTime":236.95,"body":"better than me at maths to do it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":232.54,"endTime":236.95,"body":"for me, or I'll use Google or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":236.98,"endTime":240.79,"body":"some kind of technology to get"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":236.98,"endTime":240.79,"body":"to the shortcut. Rather than"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":240.82,"endTime":243.25,"body":"even attempting maths. I just"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":240.82,"endTime":243.25,"body":"assume I'm not going to be able"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":243.25,"endTime":245.59,"body":"to do it. Why do you want to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":243.25,"endTime":245.59,"body":"know about that. Anyway?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":245.62,"endTime":247.51,"body":"So this week,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":245.62,"endTime":247.51,"body":"we're focusing on the difference"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":247.51,"endTime":251.73999999999998,"body":"between demand avoidance and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":247.51,"endTime":251.73999999999998,"body":"pathological demand avoidance,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":251.76999999999998,"endTime":255.82,"body":"usually shortened to PDA, which"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":251.76999999999998,"endTime":255.82,"body":"are two totally separate things,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":255.82,"endTime":258.31,"body":"we're going to explain the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":255.82,"endTime":258.31,"body":"difference between the two, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":258.31,"endTime":261.82,"body":"give you strategies for managing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":258.31,"endTime":261.82,"body":"students who present both"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":261.85,"endTime":262.75,"body":"successfully"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":262.85,"endTime":264.98,"body":"Oh, I'm really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":262.85,"endTime":264.98,"body":"glad we're doing a podcast on"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":264.98,"endTime":268.46000000000004,"body":"PDA because this is something"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":264.98,"endTime":268.46000000000004,"body":"that I'm coming across more and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":268.46000000000004,"endTime":272.65999999999997,"body":"more in my in schoolwork. Just"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":268.46000000000004,"endTime":272.65999999999997,"body":"before we get to that though,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":272.65999999999997,"endTime":275.69,"body":"I'd like to ask everyone"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":272.65999999999997,"endTime":275.69,"body":"listening, if you wouldn't mind"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":275.69,"endTime":278.65999999999997,"body":"and you haven't done it already."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":275.69,"endTime":278.65999999999997,"body":"Please, could you take out your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":278.65999999999997,"endTime":282.98,"body":"device, and remember to like and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":278.65999999999997,"endTime":282.98,"body":"subscribe to our podcast, and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":282.98,"endTime":285.71000000000004,"body":"that will make sure that you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":282.98,"endTime":285.71000000000004,"body":"never miss another episode."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":285.95,"endTime":289.85,"body":"Obviously, only do that if it's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":285.95,"endTime":289.85,"body":"safe for you to do it right now."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":289.98,"endTime":293.31,"body":"So if you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":289.98,"endTime":293.31,"body":"removing buckshot from a wound"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":293.31,"endTime":295.83,"body":"with tweezers, De- quilling, a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":293.31,"endTime":295.83,"body":"porcupine with your bare"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":295.83,"endTime":298.79999999999995,"body":"fingers, or you've just zipped"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":295.83,"endTime":298.79999999999995,"body":"up a squirrel suit, and you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":298.79999999999995,"endTime":299.90999999999997,"body":"about to make a base jump."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":299.94,"endTime":302.49,"body":"Yes, yes, it's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":299.94,"endTime":302.49,"body":"best to keep your device in your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":302.49,"endTime":303.15,"body":"pocket."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":303.18,"endTime":305.85,"body":"People listen to our podcast"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":303.18,"endTime":305.85,"body":"while completing a range of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":305.85,"endTime":308.61,"body":"other activities. And you can't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":305.85,"endTime":308.61,"body":"be too careful with these public"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":308.61,"endTime":309.18,"body":"announcements"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":309.18,"endTime":311.07,"body":"Are you trying to avoid us"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":309.18,"endTime":311.07,"body":"getting sued?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":311.1,"endTime":315.0,"body":"Again. A lot of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":311.1,"endTime":315.0,"body":"people in squirrel suits who are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":315.0,"endTime":318.45,"body":"subscribing to the show are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":315.0,"endTime":318.45,"body":"experiencing terrible accidents."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":318.45,"endTime":319.59000000000003,"body":"We don't want that to happen to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":318.45,"endTime":319.59000000000003,"body":"you."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":319.35,"endTime":322.23,"body":"And while you've got your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":319.35,"endTime":322.23,"body":"podcast app open, we've got a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":322.23,"endTime":325.44,"body":"free download for you and it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":322.23,"endTime":325.44,"body":"supports this week's episode"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":325.44,"endTime":328.68,"body":"perfectly. So if you're working"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":325.44,"endTime":328.68,"body":"with children who present"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":328.68,"endTime":332.03999999999996,"body":"behaviour that challenges or you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":328.68,"endTime":332.03999999999996,"body":"find difficult to manage in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":332.03999999999996,"endTime":334.98,"body":"classroom, and you're just not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":332.03999999999996,"endTime":334.98,"body":"sure why they're acting in that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":334.98,"endTime":338.97,"body":"way, and you're looking to dig"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":334.98,"endTime":338.97,"body":"into the root cause of that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":338.97,"endTime":342.65999999999997,"body":"behaviour, then we've got a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":338.97,"endTime":342.65999999999997,"body":"brilliant download just for you."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":342.72,"endTime":347.07000000000005,"body":"It's called the SEND handbook."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":342.72,"endTime":347.07000000000005,"body":"And the handbook will help you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":347.07000000000005,"endTime":350.4,"body":"to link behaviours that you've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":347.07000000000005,"endTime":350.4,"body":"seen in the classroom with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":350.4,"endTime":356.28,"body":"possible underlying causes such"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":350.4,"endTime":356.28,"body":"as trauma, autism and ADHD."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":356.30999999999995,"endTime":360.09000000000003,"body":"The idea here isn't for teachers"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":356.30999999999995,"endTime":360.09000000000003,"body":"to try and make a diagnosis for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":360.09000000000003,"endTime":363.21000000000004,"body":"that child were not qualified to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":360.09000000000003,"endTime":363.21000000000004,"body":"do that. But if we can link"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":363.24,"endTime":366.05999999999995,"body":"behaviours we see in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":363.24,"endTime":366.05999999999995,"body":"classroom to possible causes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":366.05999999999995,"endTime":369.87,"body":"more quickly. It means we can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":366.05999999999995,"endTime":369.87,"body":"get the right help and get early"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":369.87,"endTime":372.80999999999995,"body":"intervention strategies in place"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":369.87,"endTime":372.80999999999995,"body":"to support that child."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":372.86,"endTime":374.96000000000004,"body":"And the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":372.86,"endTime":374.96000000000004,"body":"handbook even comes with a set"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":374.96000000000004,"endTime":378.62,"body":"of fact sheets for conditions"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":374.96000000000004,"endTime":378.62,"body":"like pathological demand"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":378.62,"endTime":381.40999999999997,"body":"avoidance, which we're going to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":378.62,"endTime":381.40999999999997,"body":"be talking about today."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":381.83000000000004,"endTime":385.28,"body":"Oppositional Defiant Disorder,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":381.83000000000004,"endTime":385.28,"body":"foetal alcohol spectrum"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":385.28,"endTime":389.68999999999994,"body":"disorder, and others. The"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":385.28,"endTime":389.68999999999994,"body":"handbook is completely free. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":389.68999999999994,"endTime":393.08000000000004,"body":"we'll put a direct link in the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":389.68999999999994,"endTime":393.08000000000004,"body":"episode description. So all"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":393.08000000000004,"endTime":397.15999999999997,"body":"you've got to do is open your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":393.08000000000004,"endTime":397.15999999999997,"body":"podcast app and click directly"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":397.15999999999997,"endTime":399.67999999999995,"body":"through to get your free copy"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":397.15999999999997,"endTime":399.67999999999995,"body":"today"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":399.71000000000004,"endTime":402.40999999999997,"body":"That said, it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":399.71000000000004,"endTime":402.40999999999997,"body":"time to take a deep breath,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":402.47,"endTime":407.72,"body":"reach deep into the outside"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":402.47,"endTime":407.72,"body":"drain, curl our fingers and yank"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":407.72,"endTime":411.43999999999994,"body":"out the stinking fat blockage we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":407.72,"endTime":411.43999999999994,"body":"call behaviour."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":411.55999999999995,"endTime":412.93999999999994,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":411.55999999999995,"endTime":412.93999999999994,"body":"horrible."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":412.35,"endTime":414.78,"body":"A plumbers"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":412.35,"endTime":414.78,"body":"intro. 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And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":427.62,"endTime":431.13,"body":"essentially, it does what it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":431.13,"endTime":435.24,"body":"says on the tin. It's a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":431.13,"endTime":435.24,"body":"behaviour a student engages in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":435.24,"endTime":439.08000000000004,"body":"when they don't want to do a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":435.24,"endTime":439.08000000000004,"body":"task or follow an instruction."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":439.11,"endTime":442.5,"body":"And the main in avoidance whilst"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":439.11,"endTime":442.5,"body":"annoying is perfectly normal."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":442.62,"endTime":446.93999999999994,"body":"All children at some point, will"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":442.62,"endTime":446.93999999999994,"body":"seek to avoid doing things"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":446.93999999999994,"endTime":450.0,"body":"they're asked to do from time to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":446.93999999999994,"endTime":450.0,"body":"time. So let's think about what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":450.0,"endTime":452.07000000000005,"body":"this might look like in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":450.0,"endTime":452.07000000000005,"body":"classroom. Here, you might see"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":452.07000000000005,"endTime":455.66999999999996,"body":"kids engaging in task avoidance,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":452.07000000000005,"endTime":455.66999999999996,"body":"so you hand out a piece of work,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":455.70000000000005,"endTime":460.02,"body":"and you find that certain"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":455.70000000000005,"endTime":460.02,"body":"children take forever, to get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":460.02,"endTime":463.47,"body":"their materials together, just"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":460.02,"endTime":463.47,"body":"so with a ruler lined up at the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":463.47,"endTime":466.38,"body":"top of the table and everything"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":463.47,"endTime":466.38,"body":"perfectly square, well, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":466.38,"endTime":469.98,"body":"might find them just sitting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":466.38,"endTime":469.98,"body":"staring into space, rather than"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":469.98,"endTime":473.03999999999996,"body":"getting on with the work. Some"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":469.98,"endTime":473.03999999999996,"body":"kids are specialists in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":473.03999999999996,"endTime":477.6,"body":"sharpening pencils for hours at"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":473.03999999999996,"endTime":477.6,"body":"the wastepaper basket, you might"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":477.6,"endTime":482.42999999999995,"body":"find some children asking to go"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":477.6,"endTime":482.42999999999995,"body":"to the toilet every five minutes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":482.61,"endTime":484.43999999999994,"body":"to the point where you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":482.61,"endTime":484.43999999999994,"body":"concerned, there's something"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":484.43999999999994,"endTime":487.67999999999995,"body":"wrong with their bladder, or the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":484.43999999999994,"endTime":487.67999999999995,"body":"kids rather than engaging in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":487.67999999999995,"endTime":491.70000000000005,"body":"activity itself might start"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":487.67999999999995,"endTime":491.70000000000005,"body":"doodling or drawing. Sometimes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":491.70000000000005,"endTime":496.23,"body":"you'll find that task avoidance"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":491.70000000000005,"endTime":496.23,"body":"can look like excessive off task"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":496.23,"endTime":499.71000000000004,"body":"talking. And I know everyone,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":496.23,"endTime":499.71000000000004,"body":"adults and children alike do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":499.71000000000004,"endTime":502.55999999999995,"body":"often talk during a task. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":499.71000000000004,"endTime":502.55999999999995,"body":"it's not all on task. But when"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":502.55999999999995,"endTime":506.18999999999994,"body":"you see this to an excessive"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":502.55999999999995,"endTime":506.18999999999994,"body":"amount, then what you're seeing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":506.18999999999994,"endTime":508.89,"body":"there is demand avoidance not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":506.18999999999994,"endTime":508.89,"body":"sort of a normal level of social"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":508.89,"endTime":511.95000000000005,"body":"interaction. You might find"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":508.89,"endTime":511.95000000000005,"body":"interestingly, that some kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":512.04,"endTime":517.11,"body":"start asking lots and lots and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":512.04,"endTime":517.11,"body":"lots of clarifying questions to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":517.11,"endTime":519.45,"body":"actually avoid doing the task."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":517.11,"endTime":519.45,"body":"So they'll ask you a question."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":519.48,"endTime":522.57,"body":"They'll do the minutest"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":519.48,"endTime":522.57,"body":"fragment of that test, and might"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":522.57,"endTime":525.0,"body":"write three or four letters, or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":522.57,"endTime":525.0,"body":"three or four words. And then"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":525.0,"endTime":527.4,"body":"they're back up to ask more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":525.0,"endTime":527.4,"body":"questions to clarify whether"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":527.4,"endTime":531.03,"body":"they've done it right or what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":527.4,"endTime":531.03,"body":"happens next. And then sometimes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":531.03,"endTime":533.88,"body":"you'll find that this task"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":531.03,"endTime":533.88,"body":"avoidance or demand avoidance"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":533.88,"endTime":538.38,"body":"can escalate into a refusal,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":533.88,"endTime":538.38,"body":"whether people just says no, I'm"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":538.41,"endTime":540.99,"body":"absolutely not doing it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":538.41,"endTime":540.99,"body":"Sometimes younger children are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":540.99,"endTime":544.23,"body":"just absolutely shut down,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":540.99,"endTime":544.23,"body":"they'll refuse to communicate"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":544.23,"endTime":546.6,"body":"with you at all. Well, the more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":544.23,"endTime":546.6,"body":"extreme ends, you might find a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":546.6,"endTime":550.35,"body":"child running out of class to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":546.6,"endTime":550.35,"body":"literally escape the work that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":550.35,"endTime":551.01,"body":"on their desk."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":551.07,"endTime":553.68,"body":"So that's a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":551.07,"endTime":553.68,"body":"range of behaviours there that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":553.68,"endTime":557.43,"body":"we might see with demand"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":553.68,"endTime":557.43,"body":"avoidance, so why are they doing"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":557.43,"endTime":561.27,"body":"that? What it's pretty obvious,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":557.43,"endTime":561.27,"body":"they're trying to get away or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":561.27,"endTime":565.47,"body":"avoid doing what's been asked of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":561.27,"endTime":565.47,"body":"them. And there's a load of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":565.47,"endTime":570.45,"body":"different reasons why children"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":565.47,"endTime":570.45,"body":"or adults might engage in demand"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":570.45,"endTime":574.23,"body":"avoidance behaviours. So it's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":570.45,"endTime":574.23,"body":"things like maybe they're just"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":574.23,"endTime":577.53,"body":"not interested in the topic,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":574.23,"endTime":577.53,"body":"maybe they just can't see the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":577.53,"endTime":581.58,"body":"point of this work. So they just"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":577.53,"endTime":581.58,"body":"don't want to do it. So they're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":581.58,"endTime":586.11,"body":"finding ways of delaying"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":581.58,"endTime":586.11,"body":"starting that task, or if they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":586.11,"endTime":590.4,"body":"can, preferably, getting out of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":586.11,"endTime":590.4,"body":"doing it all together. Some"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":590.4,"endTime":593.73,"body":"children as well, we've talked"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":590.4,"endTime":593.73,"body":"about this on previous episodes,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":593.91,"endTime":598.68,"body":"will not start a task because"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":593.91,"endTime":598.68,"body":"they believe that they're not"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":598.68,"endTime":602.22,"body":"going to be able to be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":598.68,"endTime":602.22,"body":"successful. And in the past,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":602.22,"endTime":606.27,"body":"when they've tried a task, and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":602.22,"endTime":606.27,"body":"it hasn't quite gone to plan,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":606.48,"endTime":611.6700000000001,"body":"they've felt that big knot in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":606.48,"endTime":611.6700000000001,"body":"their tummy, that big feeling of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":611.6700000000001,"endTime":616.14,"body":"failure, and that's horrible"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":611.6700000000001,"endTime":616.14,"body":"sensation. And as humans, we're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":616.1700000000001,"endTime":621.0600000000001,"body":"programmed to avoid horrible"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":616.1700000000001,"endTime":621.0600000000001,"body":"sensations. So if we know that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":621.0600000000001,"endTime":625.08,"body":"we might get that feeling of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":621.0600000000001,"endTime":625.08,"body":"failure. Of course, it's logical"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":625.08,"endTime":628.71,"body":"for us to try and avoid"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":625.08,"endTime":628.71,"body":"encountering that fear of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":628.71,"endTime":632.85,"body":"failure. So the easy option here"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":628.71,"endTime":632.85,"body":"is just not to start the task at"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":632.85,"endTime":637.2900000000001,"body":"all. Rather than risk doing it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":632.85,"endTime":637.2900000000001,"body":"and getting it wrong and feeling"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":637.2900000000001,"endTime":641.73,"body":"that horrible ball of failure in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":637.2900000000001,"endTime":641.73,"body":"our tummies. Some children as"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":641.73,"endTime":645.9300000000001,"body":"well have got perfectionist"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":641.73,"endTime":645.9300000000001,"body":"tendencies. They feel very"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":645.96,"endTime":650.61,"body":"anxious if the work doesn't look"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":645.96,"endTime":650.61,"body":"exactly how they want it to be."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":650.91,"endTime":654.51,"body":"Or they feel like they haven't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":650.91,"endTime":654.51,"body":"met the teachers expectation"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":654.51,"endTime":658.35,"body":"around a task. So I bet you've"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":654.51,"endTime":658.35,"body":"all encountered children who"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":658.35,"endTime":662.37,"body":"will maybe do a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":658.35,"endTime":662.37,"body":"the task, but then get very"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":662.37,"endTime":667.11,"body":"caught up in asking for a rubber"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":662.37,"endTime":667.11,"body":"rubbing out what they've done"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":667.23,"endTime":670.11,"body":"crossing out what they've done"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":667.23,"endTime":670.11,"body":"scribbling out what they've"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":670.11,"endTime":673.74,"body":"done, sometimes even ripping out"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":670.11,"endTime":673.74,"body":"what they've done, because they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":673.74,"endTime":677.94,"body":"can't bear the thought that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":673.74,"endTime":677.94,"body":"isn't absolutely perfect, and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":677.94,"endTime":682.32,"body":"they'd rather have nothing to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":677.94,"endTime":682.32,"body":"show than an in perfect piece of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":682.32,"endTime":687.84,"body":"work. Some students as well lack"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":682.32,"endTime":687.84,"body":"confidence. So they don't feel"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":687.84,"endTime":691.38,"body":"like they're actually going to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":687.84,"endTime":691.38,"body":"be able to do whatever is being"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":691.38,"endTime":694.89,"body":"asked of them. And again,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":691.38,"endTime":694.89,"body":"feeling like you don't know what"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":694.89,"endTime":698.97,"body":"to do feeling lost, feeling"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":694.89,"endTime":698.97,"body":"silly, feeling ashamed that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":698.97,"endTime":703.71,"body":"other children can do it. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":698.97,"endTime":703.71,"body":"you can't. These are all huge"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":703.74,"endTime":708.15,"body":"driving emotions that make us"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":703.74,"endTime":708.15,"body":"want to avoid getting involved"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":708.15,"endTime":712.2,"body":"in the task in the first place."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":708.15,"endTime":712.2,"body":"So rather than start it and get"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":712.2,"endTime":715.59,"body":"it wrong, just don't start it at"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":712.2,"endTime":715.59,"body":"all. So go and sharpen your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":715.59,"endTime":718.47,"body":"pencil, ask if you can go to the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":715.59,"endTime":718.47,"body":"toilet, go and have a chat to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":718.47,"endTime":721.02,"body":"your friend ask a million"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":718.47,"endTime":721.02,"body":"questions to the teacher,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":721.2900000000001,"endTime":725.58,"body":"because that will delay the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":721.2900000000001,"endTime":725.58,"body":"inevitable fear that actually, I"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":725.58,"endTime":728.1,"body":"don't know how to do this, and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":725.58,"endTime":728.1,"body":"I'm not going to be able to do"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":728.1,"endTime":731.7900000000001,"body":"it well. Some children as well"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":728.1,"endTime":731.7900000000001,"body":"have got trouble with executive"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":731.7900000000001,"endTime":735.9,"body":"functioning skills. So when we"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":731.7900000000001,"endTime":735.9,"body":"set the task, they can"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":735.9300000000001,"endTime":742.0500000000001,"body":"understand what to do. But even"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":735.9300000000001,"endTime":742.0500000000001,"body":"simple tasks have got a lot of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":742.0500000000001,"endTime":746.28,"body":"steps that need to be done in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":742.0500000000001,"endTime":746.28,"body":"the right order in order to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":746.28,"endTime":750.8100000000001,"body":"complete the task. So sometimes"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":746.28,"endTime":750.8100000000001,"body":"just the simple action of asking"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":750.8100000000001,"endTime":755.1,"body":"the children to get out their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":750.8100000000001,"endTime":755.1,"body":"books, open it at the next clean"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":755.1,"endTime":759.33,"body":"page, use a ruler to draw a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":755.1,"endTime":759.33,"body":"margin, write the learning"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":759.33,"endTime":763.14,"body":"objective underlying it with a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":759.33,"endTime":763.14,"body":"ruler, you know, that's five"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":763.14,"endTime":767.64,"body":"steps before they've even got"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":763.14,"endTime":767.64,"body":"into what the task is. And if"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":767.64,"endTime":770.4300000000001,"body":"you're a child who's struggling"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":767.64,"endTime":770.4300000000001,"body":"with executive functioning"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":770.4300000000001,"endTime":773.7900000000001,"body":"skills, by the time you've got"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":770.4300000000001,"endTime":773.7900000000001,"body":"to the table, by the time you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":773.7900000000001,"endTime":778.26,"body":"find the right book, by the time"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":773.7900000000001,"endTime":778.26,"body":"you find the right page, you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":778.26,"endTime":780.9300000000001,"body":"might then have forgotten what"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":778.26,"endTime":780.9300000000001,"body":"the other steps of the tasks"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":780.99,"endTime":781.5,"body":"are."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":781.83,"endTime":784.5,"body":"Similarly, for children with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":781.83,"endTime":784.5,"body":"difficulties with working"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":784.5,"endTime":787.89,"body":"memory, so holding all that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":784.5,"endTime":787.89,"body":"information in your head and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":787.89,"endTime":792.9300000000001,"body":"getting going can be quite"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":787.89,"endTime":792.9300000000001,"body":"tricky. Another factor of why we"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":792.9300000000001,"endTime":797.4300000000001,"body":"might avoid a task is social"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":792.9300000000001,"endTime":797.4300000000001,"body":"pressure. So sometimes, you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":797.4300000000001,"endTime":800.7,"body":"know, children don't want to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":797.4300000000001,"endTime":800.7,"body":"look like the goody-goody in the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":800.7,"endTime":804.51,"body":"class, or they don't want to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":800.7,"endTime":804.51,"body":"look like teacher's pet. If"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":804.51,"endTime":807.66,"body":"their friends are not getting"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":804.51,"endTime":807.66,"body":"straight on with the work, they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":807.66,"endTime":812.0400000000001,"body":"don't want to be singled out as"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":807.66,"endTime":812.0400000000001,"body":"getting on if everybody else is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":812.0400000000001,"endTime":816.0600000000001,"body":"not doing it. So they might be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":812.0400000000001,"endTime":816.0600000000001,"body":"taking cues from their peers, if"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":816.0600000000001,"endTime":818.91,"body":"their friends are a bit"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":816.0600000000001,"endTime":818.91,"body":"reluctant to get engaged or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":818.91,"endTime":822.9300000000001,"body":"grumbling about the task or just"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":818.91,"endTime":822.9300000000001,"body":"not doing it, it can be hard to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":822.9300000000001,"endTime":826.5600000000001,"body":"go against social pressure and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":822.9300000000001,"endTime":826.5600000000001,"body":"just get on with the work. If"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":826.59,"endTime":830.4300000000001,"body":"other people who you care about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":826.59,"endTime":830.4300000000001,"body":"their opinions are not doing it."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":830.88,"endTime":834.9300000000001,"body":"And then another factor is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":830.88,"endTime":834.9300000000001,"body":"language processing. So some"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":834.9300000000001,"endTime":839.46,"body":"children in your class are not"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":834.9300000000001,"endTime":839.46,"body":"able to keep up with the rate of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":839.61,"endTime":843.57,"body":"language and instructions, for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":839.61,"endTime":843.57,"body":"example. So they're actually a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":843.57,"endTime":846.45,"body":"little bit lost, and they don't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":843.57,"endTime":846.45,"body":"know what to do. And that can"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":846.45,"endTime":849.5400000000001,"body":"feel embarrassing. So again,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":846.45,"endTime":849.5400000000001,"body":"they might be looking to their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":849.5400000000001,"endTime":854.28,"body":"peers for cues. But there are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":849.5400000000001,"endTime":854.28,"body":"many, many reasons why children"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":854.28,"endTime":857.52,"body":"are not just getting on with the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":854.28,"endTime":857.52,"body":"task, there are lots of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":857.52,"endTime":861.1800000000001,"body":"different things that might be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":857.52,"endTime":861.1800000000001,"body":"affecting their ability to just"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":861.1800000000001,"endTime":863.76,"body":"go away and crack on with what"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":861.1800000000001,"endTime":863.76,"body":"you've asked them to do."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":863.35,"endTime":865.63,"body":"And what we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":863.35,"endTime":865.63,"body":"going to have to do here really"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":865.66,"endTime":869.86,"body":"is connect the right strategy to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":865.66,"endTime":869.86,"body":"the right underlying need, we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":869.86,"endTime":873.49,"body":"need to think about why the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":869.86,"endTime":873.49,"body":"child is engaging in demand"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":873.49,"endTime":876.6700000000001,"body":"avoidance or task avoidance. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":873.49,"endTime":876.6700000000001,"body":"that is going to be different"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":876.6700000000001,"endTime":879.3100000000001,"body":"from pupil to pupil, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":876.6700000000001,"endTime":879.3100000000001,"body":"strategy you're going to use to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":879.3100000000001,"endTime":883.03,"body":"support a child who has"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":879.3100000000001,"endTime":883.03,"body":"confidence issues is going to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":883.03,"endTime":885.73,"body":"different to the strategies you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":883.03,"endTime":885.73,"body":"use to support a child with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":886.0,"endTime":889.1800000000001,"body":"difficulties breaking tasks down"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":886.0,"endTime":889.1800000000001,"body":"into its individual steps, we've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":889.1800000000001,"endTime":893.38,"body":"got to think really deeply about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":889.1800000000001,"endTime":893.38,"body":"what is causing the demand"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":893.41,"endTime":896.86,"body":"avoidance. So for instance,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":893.41,"endTime":896.86,"body":"here's an example. If the demand"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":896.86,"endTime":901.0,"body":"avoidance comes from a fear of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":896.86,"endTime":901.0,"body":"failure, say you could use"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":901.1800000000001,"endTime":905.0500000000001,"body":"questions that specifically help"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":901.1800000000001,"endTime":905.0500000000001,"body":"the child to develop realistic"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":905.0500000000001,"endTime":909.07,"body":"thinking about what might happen"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":905.0500000000001,"endTime":909.07,"body":"if they got their work wrong. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":909.07,"endTime":912.01,"body":"you can ask questions like, What"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":909.07,"endTime":912.01,"body":"is the worst thing that could"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":912.01,"endTime":916.57,"body":"happen today with me? If you got"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":912.01,"endTime":916.57,"body":"this work wrong? What happens to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":916.57,"endTime":920.26,"body":"the other students when they get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":916.57,"endTime":920.26,"body":"a question wrong in my class?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":920.53,"endTime":924.28,"body":"What would you say to a friend"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":920.53,"endTime":924.28,"body":"who was worried about making a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":924.28,"endTime":927.52,"body":"mistake? And if you did make a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":924.28,"endTime":927.52,"body":"mistake? How would you cope on a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":927.52,"endTime":931.75,"body":"scale of one to 10? In how much"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":927.52,"endTime":931.75,"body":"danger are you right now, if you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":931.75,"endTime":934.9,"body":"make a mistake with your work,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":931.75,"endTime":934.9,"body":"when people make mistakes in my"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":934.9,"endTime":939.85,"body":"class? How have you seen me"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":934.9,"endTime":939.85,"body":"respond in the past? What are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":939.85,"endTime":943.66,"body":"the consequences of not having a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":939.85,"endTime":943.66,"body":"go in this situation, because"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":943.66,"endTime":947.23,"body":"actually, task avoidance brings"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":943.66,"endTime":947.23,"body":"its own consequences that which"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":947.23,"endTime":949.51,"body":"might actually be worse than"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":947.23,"endTime":949.51,"body":"tackling the thing. You're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":949.51,"endTime":954.5500000000001,"body":"worried about itself. Talking"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":949.51,"endTime":954.5500000000001,"body":"about how in this class, you as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":954.5500000000001,"endTime":958.1800000000001,"body":"the teacher care about the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":954.5500000000001,"endTime":958.1800000000001,"body":"efforts people put in rather"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":958.1800000000001,"endTime":961.84,"body":"than the outcomes they produce."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":958.1800000000001,"endTime":961.84,"body":"So comparing the examples of if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":961.84,"endTime":964.75,"body":"someone finds this work hard,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":961.84,"endTime":964.75,"body":"but they sit down, and they get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":964.75,"endTime":967.0600000000001,"body":"their head down, and they work"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":964.75,"endTime":967.0600000000001,"body":"really, really hard, and they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":967.0600000000001,"endTime":970.12,"body":"produce half a page of work in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":967.0600000000001,"endTime":970.12,"body":"their exercise book,  then"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":970.12,"endTime":973.36,"body":"you're happy with that. But if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":970.12,"endTime":973.36,"body":"someone finds this work easy,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":973.6,"endTime":976.27,"body":"and they slack off and produce"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":973.6,"endTime":976.27,"body":"half a page of work when they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":976.27,"endTime":979.63,"body":"were capable of two or three,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":976.27,"endTime":979.63,"body":"then you're not happy because in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":979.63,"endTime":984.46,"body":"this class, what matters is the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":979.63,"endTime":984.46,"body":"effort and so on. So, demand"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":984.46,"endTime":988.5400000000001,"body":"avoidance can have a whole range"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":984.46,"endTime":988.5400000000001,"body":"of causes. It's entirely normal."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":988.5400000000001,"endTime":992.44,"body":"But what we need to do is match"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":988.5400000000001,"endTime":992.44,"body":"the strategy for the child to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":992.44,"endTime":993.1,"body":"the underlying cause."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":993.89,"endTime":996.53,"body":"That really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":993.89,"endTime":996.53,"body":"makes sense. So now what we're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":996.53,"endTime":1001.3000000000001,"body":"going to do is introduce"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":996.53,"endTime":1001.3000000000001,"body":"pathological demand avoidance"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1001.39,"endTime":1008.1700000000001,"body":"known as PDA. So PDA is a very,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1001.39,"endTime":1008.1700000000001,"body":"very specific condition. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1008.2,"endTime":1012.91,"body":"it's a particular part of the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1008.2,"endTime":1012.91,"body":"autistic spectrum. But what's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1012.91,"endTime":1016.9,"body":"difficult about PDA is it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1012.91,"endTime":1016.9,"body":"presents very differently in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1016.9,"endTime":1021.52,"body":"terms of behaviours, to what you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1016.9,"endTime":1021.52,"body":"might typically see with other"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1021.5500000000001,"endTime":1027.01,"body":"autistic pupils. Now, of course,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1021.5500000000001,"endTime":1027.01,"body":"every autistic pupil is unique,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1027.01,"endTime":1031.21,"body":"just as every child is unique."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1027.01,"endTime":1031.21,"body":"But there are a range of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1031.21,"endTime":1036.49,"body":"behaviours associated with PDA"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1031.21,"endTime":1036.49,"body":"that are specific to that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1036.49,"endTime":1037.3,"body":"condition."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1037.34,"endTime":1039.92,"body":"So what you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1037.34,"endTime":1039.92,"body":"might see in the classroom is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1039.92,"endTime":1043.07,"body":"actually to start with at a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1039.92,"endTime":1043.07,"body":"lower level, similar to what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1043.07,"endTime":1046.22,"body":"we've already discussed here. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1043.07,"endTime":1046.22,"body":"you might see task avoidance,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1046.22,"endTime":1050.09,"body":"procrastination, putting the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1046.22,"endTime":1050.09,"body":"task of staring into space, lots"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1050.09,"endTime":1053.81,"body":"of off topic, talk, lots of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1050.09,"endTime":1053.81,"body":"preparing materials, or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1053.81,"endTime":1056.42,"body":"wandering around the room"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1053.81,"endTime":1056.42,"body":"looking at things. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1056.42,"endTime":1061.73,"body":"interestingly, often with PDA"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1056.42,"endTime":1061.73,"body":"kids, what you tend to see is a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1061.73,"endTime":1065.93,"body":"lot of social manipulation. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1061.73,"endTime":1065.93,"body":"let's unpack what that means. It"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1065.93,"endTime":1069.3799999999999,"body":"means to avoid the task, what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1065.93,"endTime":1069.3799999999999,"body":"the child will do is engage in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1069.3799999999999,"endTime":1072.6499999999999,"body":"lots of bargaining and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1069.3799999999999,"endTime":1072.6499999999999,"body":"negotiating with the adult. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1072.6499999999999,"endTime":1075.32,"body":"they might talk about how much"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1072.6499999999999,"endTime":1075.32,"body":"work they would like to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1075.32,"endTime":1077.87,"body":"complete, as opposed to what the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1075.32,"endTime":1077.87,"body":"teacher said, they might say, Is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1077.87,"endTime":1080.93,"body":"it okay, if I only do half of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1077.87,"endTime":1080.93,"body":"it, or the first part, they need"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1080.93,"endTime":1082.97,"body":"to do some different work"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1080.93,"endTime":1082.97,"body":"because this work is too"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1082.97,"endTime":1087.1399999999999,"body":"difficult, they might try and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1082.97,"endTime":1087.1399999999999,"body":"talk the teacher around to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1087.1399999999999,"endTime":1091.07,"body":"reducing the expectations. Or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1087.1399999999999,"endTime":1091.07,"body":"they might make lots and lots of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1091.07,"endTime":1095.09,"body":"excuses, their hand hurts, or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1091.07,"endTime":1095.09,"body":"this work isn't right for them,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1095.09,"endTime":1098.48,"body":"or it hasn't been explained very"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1095.09,"endTime":1098.48,"body":"well. So he can't understand it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1098.51,"endTime":1102.29,"body":"Once you get past that social"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1098.51,"endTime":1102.29,"body":"manipulation with most pupils,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1102.29,"endTime":1104.6599999999999,"body":"right, in a typical classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1102.29,"endTime":1104.6599999999999,"body":"with most people you're working"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1104.6599999999999,"endTime":1107.6299999999999,"body":"with. If the adult adds"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1104.6599999999999,"endTime":1107.6299999999999,"body":"pressure, then assuming there's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1107.6299999999999,"endTime":1109.6399999999999,"body":"no other underlying"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1107.6299999999999,"endTime":1109.6399999999999,"body":"difficulties, most kids will"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1109.6399999999999,"endTime":1112.04,"body":"then bottle down I think, oh"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1109.6399999999999,"endTime":1112.04,"body":"sir's upset with me, I better do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1112.04,"endTime":1114.6499999999999,"body":"the work, they start to realise"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1112.04,"endTime":1114.6499999999999,"body":"that the situation is getting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1114.6499999999999,"endTime":1117.6499999999999,"body":"serious and that it may face"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1114.6499999999999,"endTime":1117.6499999999999,"body":"consequences. If they don't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1117.6499999999999,"endTime":1122.1799999999998,"body":"start getting on. With PDA"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1117.6499999999999,"endTime":1122.1799999999998,"body":"pupils, the opposite is true. In"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1122.1799999999998,"endTime":1124.31,"body":"that case, that you're getting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1122.1799999999998,"endTime":1124.31,"body":"this social manipulation, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1124.31,"endTime":1127.3999999999999,"body":"get in this task avoidance as an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1124.31,"endTime":1127.3999999999999,"body":"adult, then the more pressure"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1127.3999999999999,"endTime":1131.78,"body":"you add, as you increase the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1127.3999999999999,"endTime":1131.78,"body":"demands, what's interesting is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1131.78,"endTime":1135.29,"body":"you get more resistance, not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1131.78,"endTime":1135.29,"body":"less resistance, it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1135.4699999999998,"endTime":1139.31,"body":"counterproductive, with PDA"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1135.4699999999998,"endTime":1139.31,"body":"pupils to pile on more demands"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1139.31,"endTime":1142.3999999999999,"body":"and more pressure. And what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1139.31,"endTime":1142.3999999999999,"body":"you'll eventually get is like a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1142.3999999999999,"endTime":1145.6999999999998,"body":"volcano, the pressure increasing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1142.3999999999999,"endTime":1145.6999999999998,"body":"increasing inside the child"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1145.8799999999999,"endTime":1149.24,"body":"until they can't cope anymore"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1145.8799999999999,"endTime":1149.24,"body":"with those demands. Eventually,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1149.24,"endTime":1152.6,"body":"what you push them towards by"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1149.24,"endTime":1152.6,"body":"increasing those demands is more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1152.6,"endTime":1156.32,"body":"physical behaviour. More"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1152.6,"endTime":1156.32,"body":"meltdowns, the child running"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1156.32,"endTime":1159.32,"body":"away, the child becoming"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1156.32,"endTime":1159.32,"body":"overwhelmed, and so on."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1159.37,"endTime":1162.04,"body":"So what's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1159.37,"endTime":1162.04,"body":"really going on here? Well, it's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1162.04,"endTime":1167.8,"body":"important to note that PDA is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1162.04,"endTime":1167.8,"body":"fueled by anxiety. And whenever"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1167.8,"endTime":1172.12,"body":"we feel anxious, our natural"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1167.8,"endTime":1172.12,"body":"inclination is to get away from"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1172.12,"endTime":1176.1699999999998,"body":"the thing that's making us"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1172.12,"endTime":1176.1699999999998,"body":"anxious. So we tend to exhibit"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1176.1999999999998,"endTime":1181.03,"body":"avoidant behaviours. So trying"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1176.1999999999998,"endTime":1181.03,"body":"to escape from the demands. When"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1181.03,"endTime":1185.1999999999998,"body":"people feel anxious, they feel"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1181.03,"endTime":1185.1999999999998,"body":"safer when they have got"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1185.1999999999998,"endTime":1189.82,"body":"control. So back to what Simon"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1185.1999999999998,"endTime":1189.82,"body":"was saying earlier about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1190.0,"endTime":1194.9199999999998,"body":"children with PDA, engaging in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1190.0,"endTime":1194.9199999999998,"body":"lots of social manipulation,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1194.9199999999998,"endTime":1199.03,"body":"trying to bargain about the task"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1194.9199999999998,"endTime":1199.03,"body":"trying to negotiate what needs"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1199.03,"endTime":1202.51,"body":"to be done with the teacher,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1199.03,"endTime":1202.51,"body":"that's the child's attempt to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1202.51,"endTime":1207.1599999999999,"body":"get some control over the task"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1202.51,"endTime":1207.1599999999999,"body":"and over the demand, because"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1207.1599999999999,"endTime":1211.6899999999998,"body":"they don't like the physical"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1207.1599999999999,"endTime":1211.6899999999998,"body":"sensation of anxiety that the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1211.7199999999998,"endTime":1216.04,"body":"demand or the asking of the task"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1211.7199999999998,"endTime":1216.04,"body":"is causing for them. So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1216.04,"endTime":1220.6599999999999,"body":"remember, the aim isn't to seek"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1216.04,"endTime":1220.6599999999999,"body":"control per se, like you might"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1220.6599999999999,"endTime":1224.5,"body":"see with other students, but"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1220.6599999999999,"endTime":1224.5,"body":"it's actually their attempt to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1224.5,"endTime":1229.03,"body":"get away from the feeling of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1224.5,"endTime":1229.03,"body":"anxiety. And the important point"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1229.03,"endTime":1233.74,"body":"here is it's the demand itself"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1229.03,"endTime":1233.74,"body":"and not the task that's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1233.74,"endTime":1238.6599999999999,"body":"important. So it's not to do"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1233.74,"endTime":1238.6599999999999,"body":"with how hard the work is, how"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1238.6599999999999,"endTime":1242.3799999999999,"body":"long the work is, how much the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1238.6599999999999,"endTime":1242.3799999999999,"body":"task is how time consuming the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1242.3799999999999,"endTime":1247.09,"body":"task is going to be. It's not"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1242.3799999999999,"endTime":1247.09,"body":"really about that. It's actually"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1247.09,"endTime":1252.3999999999999,"body":"the fact that somebody else is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1247.09,"endTime":1252.3999999999999,"body":"exerting control over them. So"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1252.3999999999999,"endTime":1256.24,"body":"it's the actual demand of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1252.3999999999999,"endTime":1256.24,"body":"somebody else wanting that work"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1256.24,"endTime":1260.9199999999998,"body":"done. That is causing the child"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1256.24,"endTime":1260.9199999999998,"body":"with PDA to feel that result of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1260.9199999999998,"endTime":1261.85,"body":"anxiety."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1261.8899999999999,"endTime":1263.99,"body":"So you can be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1261.8899999999999,"endTime":1263.99,"body":"working with a child with PDA"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1263.99,"endTime":1266.9599999999998,"body":"and you could instruct them I am"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1263.99,"endTime":1266.9599999999998,"body":"telling you, you have to play"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1266.9599999999998,"endTime":1270.59,"body":"Minecraft and they might love"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1266.9599999999998,"endTime":1270.59,"body":"Minecraft but now because you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1270.59,"endTime":1273.56,"body":"telling them you're instructing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1270.59,"endTime":1273.56,"body":"them what to do, then you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1273.56,"endTime":1276.62,"body":"going to build that anxiety in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1273.56,"endTime":1276.62,"body":"them and build that resistance."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1276.6499999999999,"endTime":1279.35,"body":"So what we have to do as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1276.6499999999999,"endTime":1279.35,"body":"teachers and as adults in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1279.35,"endTime":1281.75,"body":"classroom and this is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1279.35,"endTime":1281.75,"body":"counterintuitive to the way"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1281.75,"endTime":1286.49,"body":"we've been told to manage kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1281.75,"endTime":1286.49,"body":"in general, is to reduce the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1286.49,"endTime":1290.2099999999998,"body":"pressure.  Remember, the simple"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1286.49,"endTime":1290.2099999999998,"body":"equation more pressure equals"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1290.2099999999998,"endTime":1296.0,"body":"more demand equals more anxiety"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1290.2099999999998,"endTime":1296.0,"body":"equals a more dysregulated"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1296.3,"endTime":1300.9199999999998,"body":"pupil. So three really effective"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1296.3,"endTime":1300.9199999999998,"body":"strategies for working with kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1300.9199999999998,"endTime":1305.54,"body":"affected by pathological demand"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1300.9199999999998,"endTime":1305.54,"body":"avoidance are giving lots of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1305.54,"endTime":1309.5,"body":"choices. So when a child's in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1305.54,"endTime":1309.5,"body":"the classroom and you give them"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1309.5,"endTime":1313.2199999999998,"body":"a task, if they feel like they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1309.5,"endTime":1313.2199999999998,"body":"have some control over that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1313.2199999999998,"endTime":1317.36,"body":"task, that makes them feel less"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1313.2199999999998,"endTime":1317.36,"body":"anxious and less heightened, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1317.36,"endTime":1320.6899999999998,"body":"then they'll become more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1317.36,"endTime":1320.6899999999998,"body":"flexible, and more likely to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1320.6899999999998,"endTime":1323.84,"body":"engage in the work, we aren't"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1320.6899999999998,"endTime":1323.84,"body":"telling them exactly how to do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1323.84,"endTime":1327.26,"body":"it by handing over the objective"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1323.84,"endTime":1327.26,"body":"and the task, but we give them"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1327.26,"endTime":1330.26,"body":"very, very quickly we bombard"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1327.26,"endTime":1330.26,"body":"them with choices. So it can be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1330.26,"endTime":1333.02,"body":"really simple things like, Would"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1330.26,"endTime":1333.02,"body":"you like to do it in pencil? Or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1333.02,"endTime":1334.9699999999998,"body":"would you like to do it in pen?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1333.02,"endTime":1334.9699999999998,"body":"Do you want to sit with a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1334.9699999999998,"endTime":1336.6499999999999,"body":"friend? Do you want to sit on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1334.9699999999998,"endTime":1336.6499999999999,"body":"your own? Do you want to do it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1336.6499999999999,"endTime":1339.53,"body":"in a book? Or do you want to do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1336.6499999999999,"endTime":1339.53,"body":"it on an iPad, whatever the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1339.53,"endTime":1343.4299999999998,"body":"activity is, by suddenly giving"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1339.53,"endTime":1343.4299999999998,"body":"them lots of lots of choices."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1343.6999999999998,"endTime":1346.49,"body":"When you're given choice, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1343.6999999999998,"endTime":1346.49,"body":"feel like you're the boss,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1346.52,"endTime":1350.6299999999999,"body":"you're in control, and then that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1346.52,"endTime":1350.6299999999999,"body":"anxiety around those demands"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1350.6299999999999,"endTime":1353.6299999999999,"body":"decreases. And we're more likely"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1350.6299999999999,"endTime":1353.6299999999999,"body":"to see on task behaviour and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1353.6299999999999,"endTime":1356.24,"body":"successful choices and behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1353.6299999999999,"endTime":1356.24,"body":"in the classroom."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1356.34,"endTime":1359.79,"body":"And the second"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1356.34,"endTime":1359.79,"body":"strategy is to work hard to give"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1359.82,"endTime":1364.26,"body":"oblique rather than direct"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1359.82,"endTime":1364.26,"body":"instructions. So anything that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1364.26,"endTime":1369.6,"body":"feels like being bossed about to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1364.26,"endTime":1369.6,"body":"the child is definitely going to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1369.6,"endTime":1373.6799999999998,"body":"increase anxiety. So it's being"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1369.6,"endTime":1373.6799999999998,"body":"a lot more casual in your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1373.6799999999998,"endTime":1378.3,"body":"approach. One terminology or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1373.6799999999998,"endTime":1378.3,"body":"phraseology that I found works"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1378.3,"endTime":1382.05,"body":"really well is when you say to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1378.3,"endTime":1382.05,"body":"the child, could you help me"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1382.05,"endTime":1387.03,"body":"with this? Could you show me how"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1382.05,"endTime":1387.03,"body":"to do this do you think you can"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1387.03,"endTime":1391.4399999999998,"body":"help me is much less"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1387.03,"endTime":1391.4399999999998,"body":"confrontational, a much less"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1391.4399999999998,"endTime":1396.09,"body":"demanding than here is what you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1391.4399999999998,"endTime":1396.09,"body":"have to do. All this work has to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1396.09,"endTime":1401.55,"body":"be done by this time. So it's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1396.09,"endTime":1401.55,"body":"giving the child the power if"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1401.55,"endTime":1405.6899999999998,"body":"you like to put them in a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1401.55,"endTime":1405.6899999999998,"body":"helpful position. So letting"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1405.6899999999998,"endTime":1410.4599999999998,"body":"them feel like they are doing it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1405.6899999999998,"endTime":1410.4599999999998,"body":"under their will to help you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1410.4599999999998,"endTime":1414.24,"body":"often children with PDA really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1410.4599999999998,"endTime":1414.24,"body":"care about social interaction."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1414.24,"endTime":1418.11,"body":"And they really care about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1414.24,"endTime":1418.11,"body":"relationships with the children."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1418.1399999999999,"endTime":1421.4699999999998,"body":"And with the adults. They're not"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1418.1399999999999,"endTime":1421.4699999999998,"body":"just trying to do this to annoy"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1421.4699999999998,"endTime":1425.1299999999999,"body":"you, that they do care about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1421.4699999999998,"endTime":1425.1299999999999,"body":"connecting with you. So when you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1425.1299999999999,"endTime":1430.08,"body":"can give instructions in a more"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1425.1299999999999,"endTime":1430.08,"body":"side on fashion, rather than"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1430.08,"endTime":1435.78,"body":"direct and bossy instructions,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1430.08,"endTime":1435.78,"body":"it feels less demanding, which"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1435.78,"endTime":1440.25,"body":"means less anxiety, and then"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1435.78,"endTime":1440.25,"body":"more ability to comply with the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1440.25,"endTime":1440.79,"body":"task."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1440.35,"endTime":1442.7199999999998,"body":"And the third"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1440.35,"endTime":1442.7199999999998,"body":"approach is simply to deliver"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1442.7199999999998,"endTime":1447.4599999999998,"body":"the work frame the work through"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1442.7199999999998,"endTime":1447.4599999999998,"body":"their personal interests. So if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1447.4599999999998,"endTime":1450.55,"body":"they have an irrational love of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1447.4599999999998,"endTime":1450.55,"body":"South Antarctic penguins,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1450.9099999999999,"endTime":1455.5,"body":"channelling their writing, or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1450.9099999999999,"endTime":1455.5,"body":"their work through the topic of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1455.5,"endTime":1458.77,"body":"penguins can actually get them"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1455.5,"endTime":1458.77,"body":"to want to do the task for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1458.77,"endTime":1460.9299999999998,"body":"themselves. And then you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1458.77,"endTime":1460.9299999999998,"body":"removing the demand, they've got"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1460.9299999999998,"endTime":1465.1899999999998,"body":"a natural desire and inclination"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1460.9299999999998,"endTime":1465.1899999999998,"body":"to engage with the work. So then"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1465.3999999999999,"endTime":1469.1499999999999,"body":"anxiety goes right down, and the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1465.3999999999999,"endTime":1469.1499999999999,"body":"child feels happier or more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1469.1499999999999,"endTime":1471.73,"body":"settled in class, and the less"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1469.1499999999999,"endTime":1471.73,"body":"likely you are to see heightened"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1471.73,"endTime":1475.12,"body":"behaviour, there'll be doing the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1471.73,"endTime":1475.12,"body":"same work, the same learning"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1475.12,"endTime":1477.55,"body":"objectives, just through a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1475.12,"endTime":1477.55,"body":"different context. I remember I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1477.55,"endTime":1480.73,"body":"worked with a child once you had"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1477.55,"endTime":1480.73,"body":"a great love of Thomas the Tank"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1480.73,"endTime":1484.36,"body":"Engine, it was almost impossible"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1480.73,"endTime":1484.36,"body":"to get him to sit down and do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1484.36,"endTime":1487.78,"body":"any Maths. But by drawing a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1484.36,"endTime":1487.78,"body":"couple of pictures of Thomas the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1487.78,"endTime":1490.78,"body":"Tank Engine on a worksheet,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1487.78,"endTime":1490.78,"body":"suddenly I got his interest, he"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1490.78,"endTime":1493.7199999999998,"body":"was fired up, he was interested"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1490.78,"endTime":1493.7199999999998,"body":"and he wanted to do the task for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1493.7199999999998,"endTime":1497.86,"body":"himself. And that was all it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1493.7199999999998,"endTime":1497.86,"body":"took to get him to engage. He"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1497.86,"endTime":1500.77,"body":"felt he was in control, he felt"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1497.86,"endTime":1500.77,"body":"he was excited about the task."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1501.01,"endTime":1505.06,"body":"It took the demand away. And he"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1501.01,"endTime":1505.06,"body":"focused him on completing the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1505.06,"endTime":1509.08,"body":"activity successfully and calmly"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1505.06,"endTime":1509.08,"body":"and without anxiety."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1509.11,"endTime":1511.24,"body":"So that's our"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1509.11,"endTime":1511.24,"body":"explanation of the difference"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1511.24,"endTime":1515.4699999999998,"body":"between demand avoidance and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1511.24,"endTime":1515.4699999999998,"body":"pathological demand avoidance."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1515.83,"endTime":1518.86,"body":"Demand avoidance is something"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1515.83,"endTime":1518.86,"body":"that you'd expect to see from"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1518.86,"endTime":1522.9399999999998,"body":"time to time in many pupils, and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1518.86,"endTime":1522.9399999999998,"body":"it's got a range of underlying"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1522.9399999999998,"endTime":1527.5,"body":"causes. Whereas pathological"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1522.9399999999998,"endTime":1527.5,"body":"demand avoidance is a very"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1527.5,"endTime":1532.4199999999998,"body":"specific profile of autism,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1527.5,"endTime":1532.4199999999998,"body":"where the pupil experiences"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1532.4199999999998,"endTime":1538.03,"body":"really high levels of anxiety"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1532.4199999999998,"endTime":1538.03,"body":"around any demand placed upon"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1538.03,"endTime":1542.1699999999998,"body":"them. And the task avoidance and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1538.03,"endTime":1542.1699999999998,"body":"controlling and negotiating"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1542.1699999999998,"endTime":1546.34,"body":"behaviours are all about and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1542.1699999999998,"endTime":1546.34,"body":"attempt to cope with that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1546.34,"endTime":1547.81,"body":"feeling of anxiety."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1547.87,"endTime":1550.2099999999998,"body":"As ever, it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1547.87,"endTime":1550.2099999999998,"body":"about knowing your own kids, all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1550.2099999999998,"endTime":1552.85,"body":"kids are different. All kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1550.2099999999998,"endTime":1552.85,"body":"have different needs. No two"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1552.85,"endTime":1555.61,"body":"children are the same. We were"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1552.85,"endTime":1555.61,"body":"painted with some broad strokes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1555.61,"endTime":1558.1,"body":"about PDA, but there are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1555.61,"endTime":1558.1,"body":"differences from children's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1558.2199999999998,"endTime":1562.0,"body":"children, you need to think"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1558.2199999999998,"endTime":1562.0,"body":"deeply about what's driving"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1562.0,"endTime":1564.9099999999999,"body":"their behaviours, and then"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1562.0,"endTime":1564.9099999999999,"body":"connecting the child with the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1564.9099999999999,"endTime":1568.75,"body":"right support strategies because"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1564.9099999999999,"endTime":1568.75,"body":"similar behaviours can have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1568.78,"endTime":1572.02,"body":"different driving factors in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1568.78,"endTime":1572.02,"body":"different children."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1572.07,"endTime":1574.3799999999999,"body":"So that's all"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1572.07,"endTime":1574.3799999999999,"body":"we've got time for today. If"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1574.3799999999999,"endTime":1577.6499999999999,"body":"you've enjoyed listening in or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1574.3799999999999,"endTime":1577.6499999999999,"body":"find the episode helpful or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1577.6499999999999,"endTime":1581.9399999999998,"body":"useful, remember to open up your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1577.6499999999999,"endTime":1581.9399999999998,"body":"podcast app and rate and review"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1581.9399999999998,"endTime":1585.6299999999999,"body":"us that will take you less than"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1581.9399999999998,"endTime":1585.6299999999999,"body":"30 seconds and it really does"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1585.6299999999999,"endTime":1589.6499999999999,"body":"help other teachers, school"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1585.6299999999999,"endTime":1589.6499999999999,"body":"leaders and parents find us"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1589.86,"endTime":1593.28,"body":"because it prompts the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1589.86,"endTime":1593.28,"body":"podcasting algorithm gods to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1593.28,"endTime":1597.9599999999998,"body":"suggest our podcast into their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1593.28,"endTime":1597.9599999999998,"body":"feeds as well. It's a small"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1597.9599999999998,"endTime":1601.08,"body":"thing, but it makes a big"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1597.9599999999998,"endTime":1601.08,"body":"difference to us. And it helps"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1601.08,"endTime":1603.84,"body":"keep the podcast going and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1601.08,"endTime":1603.84,"body":"growing."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1603.35,"endTime":1606.4099999999999,"body":"And to celebrate"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1603.35,"endTime":1606.4099999999999,"body":"leaving your review, why not get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1606.4099999999999,"endTime":1610.1,"body":"yourself a large cardboard box,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1606.4099999999999,"endTime":1610.1,"body":"cover it with silver foil and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1610.1,"endTime":1613.2199999999998,"body":"shoulder straps and attach, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1610.1,"endTime":1613.2199999999998,"body":"know a couple of plastic cups to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1613.2199999999998,"endTime":1617.7199999999998,"body":"the bottom with the open ends of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1613.2199999999998,"endTime":1617.7199999999998,"body":"the cup facing downwards. Why,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1617.7199999999998,"endTime":1620.7199999999998,"body":"sir, you made yourself and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1617.7199999999998,"endTime":1620.7199999999998,"body":"that's a little jetpack now"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1620.7199999999998,"endTime":1623.6599999999999,"body":"where your futuristic artwork on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1620.7199999999998,"endTime":1623.6599999999999,"body":"your back walk around the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1623.6599999999999,"endTime":1626.51,"body":"streets by your home, and the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1623.6599999999999,"endTime":1626.51,"body":"neighbours will believe you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1626.51,"endTime":1629.9599999999998,"body":"part of the Space Programme."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1626.51,"endTime":1629.9599999999998,"body":"You'll look quite a man or woman"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1629.9599999999998,"endTime":1632.81,"body":"about town and if you bend your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1629.9599999999998,"endTime":1632.81,"body":"knees from time to time and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1632.81,"endTime":1636.4399999999998,"body":"shout to infinity, you'll even"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1632.81,"endTime":1636.4399999999998,"body":"give them the impression that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1636.4399999999998,"endTime":1639.05,"body":"you're ready for takeoff at any"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1636.4399999999998,"endTime":1639.05,"body":"moment. You'll find your social"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1639.05,"endTime":1641.9299999999998,"body":"status goes through the roof."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1639.05,"endTime":1641.9299999999998,"body":"People will start asking you for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1641.9599999999998,"endTime":1647.03,"body":"Elon's signature and only you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1641.9599999999998,"endTime":1647.03,"body":"and I will know your special"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1647.03,"endTime":1649.61,"body":"secret. Well, the one about the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1647.03,"endTime":1649.61,"body":"jet pack anyway."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1649.6999999999998,"endTime":1652.1,"body":"Okay, I think"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1649.6999999999998,"endTime":1652.1,"body":"we'll leave it right there."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1652.25,"endTime":1655.28,"body":"Thank you for listening today."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1652.25,"endTime":1655.28,"body":"Have an excellent week and we"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1655.28,"endTime":1658.07,"body":"look forward to seeing you next"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1655.28,"endTime":1658.07,"body":"time on school behaviour"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1658.07,"endTime":1659.3899999999999,"body":"secrets. Bye for now"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1659.75,"endTime":1660.29,"body":"Bye"}]}