{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.35,"endTime":90.41,"body":"In today's show"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.35,"endTime":90.41,"body":"you're going to learn what an in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":90.41,"endTime":94.00999999999999,"body":"school SEND hub is, how it can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":90.41,"endTime":94.00999999999999,"body":"support the students in your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":94.00999999999999,"endTime":97.28,"body":"school, especially if your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":94.00999999999999,"endTime":97.28,"body":"school is seeing more and more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":97.28,"endTime":100.33999999999999,"body":"students with SEND needs and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":97.28,"endTime":100.33999999999999,"body":"your budget for meeting those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":100.33999999999999,"endTime":103.39999999999999,"body":"needs is tighter than ever."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":100.33999999999999,"endTime":103.39999999999999,"body":"Let's jump into the show."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":103.49,"endTime":107.6,"body":"Welcome to the school behaviour"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":103.49,"endTime":107.6,"body":"secrets podcast. 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My name is Simon"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":142.89,"endTime":145.41,"body":"Currigan and welcome to this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":145.41,"endTime":148.76999999999998,"body":"week's episode of school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":145.41,"endTime":148.76999999999998,"body":"behaviour secrets. 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I'm joined today by"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":174.14999999999998,"endTime":178.01999999999998,"body":"my non screaming co host Emma"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":178.01999999999998,"endTime":180.6,"body":"Shackleton. Hi,  big Napalm"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":178.01999999999998,"endTime":180.6,"body":"Death fan?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":181.23,"endTime":183.78,"body":"I'm not gonna"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":181.23,"endTime":183.78,"body":"lie. No, I'm not. They don't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":183.78,"endTime":186.72,"body":"feature heavily on my playlist."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":183.78,"endTime":186.72,"body":"In fact, I don't even know who"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":186.72,"endTime":187.23,"body":"they are."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":187.26,"endTime":190.11,"body":"Youre probably"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":187.26,"endTime":190.11,"body":"better for it. 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That's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":229.92,"endTime":232.14,"body":"a lot of ground to go over"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":232.14,"endTime":236.57999999999998,"body":"Simon. And I think one of the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":232.14,"endTime":236.57999999999998,"body":"big changes that stands out for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":236.57999999999998,"endTime":241.65,"body":"me now is how very full the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":236.57999999999998,"endTime":241.65,"body":"school day is for pupils. It"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":241.65,"endTime":245.54999999999998,"body":"feels to me a bit like children"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":241.65,"endTime":245.54999999999998,"body":"are like a hamster on a wheel"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":245.85,"endTime":249.9,"body":"where you can't get off and more"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":245.85,"endTime":249.9,"body":"and more subjects and segments"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":249.93,"endTime":252.78,"body":"are being shoehorned in. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":249.93,"endTime":252.78,"body":"actually I don't really see"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":252.78,"endTime":256.83,"body":"anything being taken out. But"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":252.78,"endTime":256.83,"body":"but I'll get off my soapbox."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":256.83,"endTime":260.37,"body":"Now. Why are you asking what's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":256.83,"endTime":260.37,"body":"the link to today's show?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":260.77,"endTime":263.62,"body":"Well today we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":260.77,"endTime":263.62,"body":"looking at how more and more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":263.62,"endTime":266.26,"body":"schools are moving towards a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":263.62,"endTime":266.26,"body":"model of supporting their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":266.26,"endTime":270.43,"body":"pupils, especially their SEMH"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":266.26,"endTime":270.43,"body":"pupils through an SEND hub. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":270.43,"endTime":273.07,"body":"I'll just explain quickly SEND,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":270.43,"endTime":273.07,"body":"if you've not come across the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":273.07,"endTime":275.95,"body":"term before means special"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":273.07,"endTime":275.95,"body":"educational needs and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":275.95,"endTime":280.96000000000004,"body":"disabilities, and SEMH is pupils"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":275.95,"endTime":280.96000000000004,"body":"who have social, emotional and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":280.96000000000004,"endTime":285.54999999999995,"body":"mental health needs. We'll be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":280.96000000000004,"endTime":285.54999999999995,"body":"digging into exactly what an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":285.58,"endTime":290.2,"body":"SEND hub is, how to run one"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":285.58,"endTime":290.2,"body":"successfully in your school, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":290.2,"endTime":292.69,"body":"what the benefits are for the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":290.2,"endTime":292.69,"body":"pupils."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":292.72,"endTime":295.03,"body":"Before we get"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":292.72,"endTime":295.03,"body":"onto that, can I just say one"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":295.03,"endTime":299.23,"body":"thing. If you're working with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":295.03,"endTime":299.23,"body":"pupils with SEMH needs, and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":299.23,"endTime":302.74,"body":"you're not sure why they're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":299.23,"endTime":302.74,"body":"behaving the way they do, we've"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":302.74,"endTime":307.53999999999996,"body":"got a download that can help."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":302.74,"endTime":307.53999999999996,"body":"It's called the SEND handbook."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":307.65999999999997,"endTime":311.47,"body":"And it helps you to link"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":307.65999999999997,"endTime":311.47,"body":"classroom behaviours to possible"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":311.5,"endTime":317.08,"body":"underlying causes such as"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":311.5,"endTime":317.08,"body":"trauma, ADHD, and autism. The"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":317.08,"endTime":320.32,"body":"guide also comes with loads of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":317.08,"endTime":320.32,"body":"helpful fact sheets and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":320.32,"endTime":323.86,"body":"strategies for you to use to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":320.32,"endTime":323.86,"body":"support children with a whole"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":323.86,"endTime":324.97,"body":"range of needs."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":325.0,"endTime":327.43,"body":"So can I throw"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":325.0,"endTime":327.43,"body":"in an interesting fact at this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":327.43,"endTime":327.76,"body":"point?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":327.82,"endTime":328.81,"body":"Go on then."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":328.99,"endTime":332.89,"body":"It's been"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":328.99,"endTime":332.89,"body":"downloaded just under 80,000"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":332.89,"endTime":333.7,"body":"times so far."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":333.73,"endTime":336.82,"body":"Wow. So if you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":333.73,"endTime":336.82,"body":"want to join the fabulous"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":336.82,"endTime":341.89,"body":"company of over 80,000 of your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":336.82,"endTime":341.89,"body":"educator peers, go and grab a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":341.89,"endTime":345.46000000000004,"body":"free copy today. 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Even"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":352.72,"endTime":355.99,"body":"better do it now."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":356.35,"endTime":359.71000000000004,"body":"With that it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":356.35,"endTime":359.71000000000004,"body":"time to extend our hand close"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":359.71000000000004,"endTime":364.12,"body":"our fingers around the cold"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":359.71000000000004,"endTime":364.12,"body":"metal handle and flush the dirty"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":364.21000000000004,"endTime":368.20000000000005,"body":"dirty old toilet we call"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":364.21000000000004,"endTime":368.20000000000005,"body":"behaviour. They're not getting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":368.20000000000005,"endTime":368.98,"body":"any better. Are they?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":369.20000000000005,"endTime":371.39,"body":"No, definitely"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":369.20000000000005,"endTime":371.39,"body":"not."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":371.62,"endTime":374.91999999999996,"body":"I suppose we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":371.62,"endTime":374.91999999999996,"body":"should start by looking at the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":374.91999999999996,"endTime":378.82000000000005,"body":"different ways schools have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":374.91999999999996,"endTime":378.82000000000005,"body":"supported pupils with sort of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":378.82000000000005,"endTime":381.61,"body":"higher SEMH needs in the past"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":378.82000000000005,"endTime":381.61,"body":"before we look at this approach"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":381.61,"endTime":382.9,"body":"to SEND What do you think?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":382.93999999999994,"endTime":386.0,"body":"Yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":382.93999999999994,"endTime":386.0,"body":"thinking about why are schools"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":386.0,"endTime":389.51,"body":"looking at different way of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":386.0,"endTime":389.51,"body":"supporting those pupils with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":389.51,"endTime":393.32000000000005,"body":"social, emotional and mental"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":389.51,"endTime":393.32000000000005,"body":"health needs? And I guess"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":393.32000000000005,"endTime":395.36,"body":"comparing it to what we did"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":393.32000000000005,"endTime":395.36,"body":"before?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":395.35,"endTime":398.04999999999995,"body":"What would you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":395.35,"endTime":398.04999999999995,"body":"say is the problem with the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":395.45000000000005,"endTime":396.11,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":398.04999999999995,"endTime":399.66999999999996,"body":"current model that we've got?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":399.35,"endTime":402.02,"body":"I don't think"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":399.35,"endTime":402.02,"body":"there's technically a problem"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":402.02,"endTime":404.6,"body":"with the model. But what's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":402.02,"endTime":404.6,"body":"happened is circumstances have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":404.6,"endTime":408.95000000000005,"body":"changed. And I think the sand"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":404.6,"endTime":408.95000000000005,"body":"has shifted beneath school's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":408.95000000000005,"endTime":413.53999999999996,"body":"feet. So the key thing here is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":408.95000000000005,"endTime":413.53999999999996,"body":"just the numbers and the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":413.53999999999996,"endTime":417.98,"body":"quantities of SEND, pupils"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":413.53999999999996,"endTime":417.98,"body":"coming through the gates. 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But there seems to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":428.17999999999995,"endTime":431.39,"body":"have been something happening in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":428.17999999999995,"endTime":431.39,"body":"the last couple of years, where"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":431.41999999999996,"endTime":435.11,"body":"we're seeing not just more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":431.41999999999996,"endTime":435.11,"body":"children with needs, but also"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":435.14,"endTime":438.23,"body":"way more complex needs. So in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":435.14,"endTime":438.23,"body":"the past, what schools would do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":438.28999999999996,"endTime":441.95000000000005,"body":"is often they would find the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":438.28999999999996,"endTime":441.95000000000005,"body":"funding to get a teaching"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":441.95000000000005,"endTime":445.88,"body":"assistant or some extra body in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":441.95000000000005,"endTime":445.88,"body":"the classroom who would sit and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":445.88,"endTime":450.20000000000005,"body":"support those children. But now,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":445.88,"endTime":450.20000000000005,"body":"the numbers just make that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":450.23,"endTime":453.40999999999997,"body":"unsustainable, it's too"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":450.23,"endTime":453.40999999999997,"body":"expensive to put bodies on all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":453.40999999999997,"endTime":455.92999999999995,"body":"these children to support them"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":453.40999999999997,"endTime":455.92999999999995,"body":"and help them integrate during"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":455.92999999999995,"endTime":459.08000000000004,"body":"the day, which means that's just"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":455.92999999999995,"endTime":459.08000000000004,"body":"not sustainable. And schools are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":459.08000000000004,"endTime":462.20000000000005,"body":"having to be creative and find"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":459.08000000000004,"endTime":462.20000000000005,"body":"new ways of meeting just the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":462.20000000000005,"endTime":463.07000000000005,"body":"quantity."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":463.15999999999997,"endTime":466.1,"body":"Yeah, so lots"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":463.15999999999997,"endTime":466.1,"body":"of the schools that we work with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":466.1,"endTime":470.33000000000004,"body":"in person in our day to day"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":466.1,"endTime":470.33000000000004,"body":"work, are either considering"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":470.33000000000004,"endTime":474.14,"body":"this approach or already"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":470.33000000000004,"endTime":474.14,"body":"starting to make moves towards"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":474.14,"endTime":479.0,"body":"this, and they're making their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":474.14,"endTime":479.0,"body":"own little SEND hub type"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":479.0,"endTime":483.26,"body":"provision. So within their"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":479.0,"endTime":483.26,"body":"mainstream setting, they are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":483.43999999999994,"endTime":489.20000000000005,"body":"creating little breakout spaces"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":483.43999999999994,"endTime":489.20000000000005,"body":"or little hubs for children with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":489.20000000000005,"endTime":491.68999999999994,"body":"those needs to work with. Is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":489.20000000000005,"endTime":491.68999999999994,"body":"that the kind of thing you mean,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":491.68999999999994,"endTime":492.23,"body":"Simon?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":492.47,"endTime":494.51,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":492.47,"endTime":494.51,"body":"absolutely. And perhaps we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":494.51,"endTime":499.64,"body":"should sort of describe what an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":494.51,"endTime":499.64,"body":"SEND hub kind of looks like, if"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":499.64,"endTime":501.91999999999996,"body":"you're a camera on the wall."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":499.64,"endTime":501.91999999999996,"body":"When you think about the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":501.91999999999996,"endTime":504.74,"body":"provision that you're seeing in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":501.91999999999996,"endTime":504.74,"body":"schools Emma, what would that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":504.89,"endTime":508.13,"body":"look like to a visitor or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":504.89,"endTime":508.13,"body":"someone watching or being"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":508.13,"endTime":510.14,"body":"introduced to the idea of a hub"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":508.13,"endTime":510.14,"body":"for the first time?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":510.15999999999997,"endTime":513.31,"body":"Yeah, so it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":510.15999999999997,"endTime":513.31,"body":"does vary from school to school,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":513.31,"endTime":516.58,"body":"because obviously, it depends on"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":513.31,"endTime":516.58,"body":"the physical space that they are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":516.61,"endTime":521.41,"body":"able to use for this sort of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":516.61,"endTime":521.41,"body":"work. But I've seen things like"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":521.4399999999999,"endTime":525.34,"body":"smaller classrooms, or what used"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":521.4399999999999,"endTime":525.34,"body":"to be used as an intervention"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":525.34,"endTime":528.49,"body":"space where children would go"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":525.34,"endTime":528.49,"body":"throughout the day, maybe"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":528.49,"endTime":530.89,"body":"there'd be a phonics group"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":528.49,"endTime":530.89,"body":"running in there, and then the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":530.89,"endTime":533.53,"body":"children would go back to class,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":530.89,"endTime":533.53,"body":"and then maybe there'd be a mass"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":533.53,"endTime":536.38,"body":"group, and then the children"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":533.53,"endTime":536.38,"body":"would go back to class. Instead"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":536.38,"endTime":541.12,"body":"of that schools are repurposing"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":536.38,"endTime":541.12,"body":"that area, and making like a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":541.12,"endTime":546.07,"body":"little mini classroom, where"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":541.12,"endTime":546.07,"body":"they're selecting children from"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":546.07,"endTime":549.85,"body":"different classes, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":546.07,"endTime":549.85,"body":"even mixed age group children,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":550.09,"endTime":553.12,"body":"and they're bringing them"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":550.09,"endTime":553.12,"body":"together either for the whole"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":553.12,"endTime":558.28,"body":"day, or often for parts of the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":553.12,"endTime":558.28,"body":"day, such as the morning. So the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":558.28,"endTime":561.7,"body":"space is important that they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":558.28,"endTime":561.7,"body":"allocate, and obviously they're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":561.7,"endTime":564.85,"body":"stuck with the physical"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":561.7,"endTime":564.85,"body":"constraints of the building. But"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":564.85,"endTime":568.72,"body":"the types of provision I'm"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":564.85,"endTime":568.72,"body":"seeing is where they are paring"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":568.72,"endTime":572.98,"body":"back what goes into that room,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":568.72,"endTime":572.98,"body":"and thinking really carefully"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":573.01,"endTime":576.07,"body":"about the needs of those pupils,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":573.01,"endTime":576.07,"body":"and the needs are going to be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":576.07,"endTime":580.09,"body":"different from child to child."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":576.07,"endTime":580.09,"body":"And from group to group."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":580.12,"endTime":581.32,"body":"When we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":580.12,"endTime":581.32,"body":"thinking about in terms of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":581.32,"endTime":585.1899999999999,"body":"staffing, what staffing levels"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":581.32,"endTime":585.1899999999999,"body":"and ratios are you seeing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":585.1899999999999,"endTime":587.35,"body":"because in the past, these"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":585.1899999999999,"endTime":587.35,"body":"children would often have been"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":587.35,"endTime":591.49,"body":"supported, maybe not all day"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":587.35,"endTime":591.49,"body":"through, but a significant"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":591.49,"endTime":595.84,"body":"proportion of the day through"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":591.49,"endTime":595.84,"body":"key teaching assistant or a key"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":595.84,"endTime":598.24,"body":"worker who would support them"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":595.84,"endTime":598.24,"body":"and in the mainstream classroom."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":598.27,"endTime":600.28,"body":"So what sort of staffing ratios"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":598.27,"endTime":600.28,"body":"are you seeing?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":600.49,"endTime":603.07,"body":"Yeah, you're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":600.49,"endTime":603.07,"body":"right. So whereas previously,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":603.07,"endTime":607.0,"body":"schools might have allocated a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":603.07,"endTime":607.0,"body":"one to one support to a child"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":607.03,"endTime":611.32,"body":"and try to get them to work in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":607.03,"endTime":611.32,"body":"the classroom, as you identified"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":611.32,"endTime":615.01,"body":"at the start, we're finding that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":611.32,"endTime":615.01,"body":"schools have got so many of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":615.01,"endTime":618.49,"body":"those pupils now that are not"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":615.01,"endTime":618.49,"body":"coping with the mainstream,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":618.7,"endTime":622.48,"body":"whole class provision that they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":618.7,"endTime":622.48,"body":"can't possibly afford, or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":622.48,"endTime":628.03,"body":"actually recruit and find enough"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":622.48,"endTime":628.03,"body":"people to have one adult per one"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":628.03,"endTime":630.88,"body":"child. So yeah, you're right,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":628.03,"endTime":630.88,"body":"grouping the children in this"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":630.88,"endTime":634.39,"body":"way. So I've seen groups where"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":630.88,"endTime":634.39,"body":"there might be five or six"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":634.39,"endTime":638.41,"body":"pupils in this little mini"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":634.39,"endTime":638.41,"body":"provision with maybe two adults."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":638.5600000000001,"endTime":642.4300000000001,"body":"So you can see the ratio there"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":638.5600000000001,"endTime":642.4300000000001,"body":"changes and the adults are able"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":642.4300000000001,"endTime":646.72,"body":"to work with more of those"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":642.4300000000001,"endTime":646.72,"body":"children for some of the time."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":646.35,"endTime":649.0500000000001,"body":"I'm when I'm"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":646.35,"endTime":649.0500000000001,"body":"thinking about the SEND hubs"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":649.08,"endTime":652.2,"body":"that I've seen as well, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":649.08,"endTime":652.2,"body":"schools are making a significant"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":652.2,"endTime":657.09,"body":"effort to set up the environment"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":652.2,"endTime":657.09,"body":"so it's inclusive, so it's not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":657.09,"endTime":660.03,"body":"overwhelming with lots of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":657.09,"endTime":660.03,"body":"displays, displays are kind of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":660.0600000000001,"endTime":662.85,"body":"pared back to support the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":660.0600000000001,"endTime":662.85,"body":"children with their sensory"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":662.85,"endTime":665.7,"body":"needs. There might be quiet"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":662.85,"endTime":665.7,"body":"areas, obviously, it's going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":665.7,"endTime":667.86,"body":"depend on the physical space"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":665.7,"endTime":667.86,"body":"that the school has got, but"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":667.86,"endTime":671.97,"body":"there might be quiet areas or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":667.86,"endTime":671.97,"body":"tents that they can go to from"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":671.97,"endTime":675.33,"body":"when they feel overwhelmed. The"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":671.97,"endTime":675.33,"body":"environment is often it often"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":675.33,"endTime":678.69,"body":"looks a little bit sparse, but"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":675.33,"endTime":678.69,"body":"that's intentional. So the kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":678.69,"endTime":681.4200000000001,"body":"don't walk in there and they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":678.69,"endTime":681.4200000000001,"body":"feel like oh my goodness, it's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":681.4200000000001,"endTime":684.45,"body":"completely overwhelming. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":681.4200000000001,"endTime":684.45,"body":"so we're talking about kind of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":684.45,"endTime":688.41,"body":"like a high level of staffing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":684.45,"endTime":688.41,"body":"but not to the extent that you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":688.41,"endTime":691.47,"body":"would see if the children are in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":688.41,"endTime":691.47,"body":"mainstream because we can group"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":691.47,"endTime":694.74,"body":"kids together in terms of their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":691.47,"endTime":694.74,"body":"needs, we can support them with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":694.74,"endTime":698.1,"body":"learning activities with a lower"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":694.74,"endTime":698.1,"body":"number of adults, and actually I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":698.1,"endTime":701.88,"body":"think the benefit of that is,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":698.1,"endTime":701.88,"body":"when you have a child working"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":701.88,"endTime":705.48,"body":"one to one with a TA in a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":701.88,"endTime":705.48,"body":"classroom, you get this kind of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":705.57,"endTime":709.47,"body":"learned helplessness that I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":705.57,"endTime":709.47,"body":"can't do anything without an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":709.47,"endTime":712.02,"body":"adult strapped to my side. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":709.47,"endTime":712.02,"body":"actually, when you look at how"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":712.14,"endTime":715.89,"body":"special schools work, you look"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":712.14,"endTime":715.89,"body":"at how places like PRU's work"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":715.89,"endTime":719.97,"body":"that have a small group with a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":715.89,"endTime":719.97,"body":"good adult pupil ratio,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":719.97,"endTime":723.39,"body":"actually, but not one to one,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":719.97,"endTime":723.39,"body":"what those children do learn is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":723.45,"endTime":725.3100000000001,"body":"some independence."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":725.4300000000001,"endTime":727.6800000000001,"body":"Absolutely, I"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":725.4300000000001,"endTime":727.6800000000001,"body":"think we've got to give a bit of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":727.6800000000001,"endTime":730.5,"body":"a shout out here to the adults"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":727.6800000000001,"endTime":730.5,"body":"who are working in those"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":730.5,"endTime":734.97,"body":"provisions as well, because it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":730.5,"endTime":734.97,"body":"is a tough job to meet the needs"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":734.97,"endTime":737.61,"body":"of those children, especially"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":734.97,"endTime":737.61,"body":"where their needs might be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":737.61,"endTime":741.51,"body":"different. And you're absolutely"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":737.61,"endTime":741.51,"body":"right, the environment does tend"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":741.51,"endTime":745.59,"body":"to be more successful where it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":741.51,"endTime":745.59,"body":"is pared back, some of the best"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":745.59,"endTime":748.62,"body":"small group provision like this,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":745.59,"endTime":748.62,"body":"I've seen they've had really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":748.62,"endTime":752.76,"body":"good cupboards, they've got a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":748.62,"endTime":752.76,"body":"lot of resources, and they've"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":752.76,"endTime":756.87,"body":"got a lot of practical equipment"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":752.76,"endTime":756.87,"body":"that the children will need and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":756.87,"endTime":761.76,"body":"will enjoy. But they are able to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":756.87,"endTime":761.76,"body":"pack things away and maybe just"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":761.76,"endTime":766.59,"body":"bring out one type of equipment"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":761.76,"endTime":766.59,"body":"at a time. I think primary"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":766.59,"endTime":772.35,"body":"classrooms often are full of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":766.59,"endTime":772.35,"body":"stuff. And that is just so"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":772.35,"endTime":775.14,"body":"overwhelming for a lot of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":772.35,"endTime":775.14,"body":"children, particularly those"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":775.14,"endTime":778.9200000000001,"body":"with sensory needs. Of course,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":775.14,"endTime":778.9200000000001,"body":"there's a lot of people all"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":778.9200000000001,"endTime":783.57,"body":"squashed into a small space with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":778.9200000000001,"endTime":783.57,"body":"a lot of stuff. Whereas where"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":783.57,"endTime":788.25,"body":"you can make a little hub or a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":783.57,"endTime":788.25,"body":"little hive, or they've got all"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":788.25,"endTime":790.98,"body":"sorts of nice names, haven't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":788.25,"endTime":790.98,"body":"they nests and this kind of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":790.98,"endTime":793.86,"body":"thing where you can make that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":790.98,"endTime":793.86,"body":"kind of provision. Hopefully,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":793.86,"endTime":796.86,"body":"you've got some control over the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":793.86,"endTime":796.86,"body":"environment to try and pare it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":796.86,"endTime":797.73,"body":"back a little bit."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":797.86,"endTime":799.12,"body":"And when we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":797.86,"endTime":799.12,"body":"think about the child's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":799.12,"endTime":803.23,"body":"experience of being an hub, I"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":799.12,"endTime":803.23,"body":"think one of the key things here"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":803.23,"endTime":808.72,"body":"is unless there is very high"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":803.23,"endTime":808.72,"body":"level of need. The aim isn't for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":808.72,"endTime":812.65,"body":"the child to be there, all of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":808.72,"endTime":812.65,"body":"the time, the aim is for the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":812.65,"endTime":816.19,"body":"child to be there for a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":812.65,"endTime":816.19,"body":"proportion of their school day."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":816.4,"endTime":819.28,"body":"So it might look like they come"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":816.4,"endTime":819.28,"body":"in in the morning. And then they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":819.28,"endTime":822.58,"body":"go to the hub for a welcome and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":819.28,"endTime":822.58,"body":"a personal check in a mainstream"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":822.58,"endTime":826.15,"body":"teacher can't give them in a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":822.58,"endTime":826.15,"body":"class of 30, gets them settled."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":826.24,"endTime":830.0500000000001,"body":"And then they might do some pre"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":826.24,"endTime":830.0500000000001,"body":"tutoring explaining what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":830.0500000000001,"endTime":833.35,"body":"activities are going to happen"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":830.0500000000001,"endTime":833.35,"body":"in the mainstream classroom. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":833.35,"endTime":836.5,"body":"they prepare them for the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":833.35,"endTime":836.5,"body":"activity, they might even start"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":836.53,"endTime":839.23,"body":"an activity that the other"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":836.53,"endTime":839.23,"body":"children are doing, but leave it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":839.32,"endTime":842.35,"body":"half completed. And then they go"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":839.32,"endTime":842.35,"body":"back with a child to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":842.35,"endTime":844.75,"body":"classroom, the child then feels"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":842.35,"endTime":844.75,"body":"confident because they know what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":844.75,"endTime":847.21,"body":"the work is they've had someone"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":844.75,"endTime":847.21,"body":"talk it through individually,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":847.4200000000001,"endTime":851.1700000000001,"body":"then it might be they finish the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":847.4200000000001,"endTime":851.1700000000001,"body":"activity with the other children"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":851.1700000000001,"endTime":855.4300000000001,"body":"and go to the carpet or have the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":851.1700000000001,"endTime":855.4300000000001,"body":"kind of plenary talk with the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":855.4300000000001,"endTime":858.73,"body":"teacher with everyone else. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":855.4300000000001,"endTime":858.73,"body":"it might look like a foot in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":858.73,"endTime":861.4300000000001,"body":"mainstream, in the mainstream"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":858.73,"endTime":861.4300000000001,"body":"classroom and a foot in the hub"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":861.4300000000001,"endTime":865.48,"body":"going backwards and forwards as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":861.4300000000001,"endTime":865.48,"body":"necessary. The thing, the key"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":865.48,"endTime":868.5400000000001,"body":"thing is here, when they're in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":865.48,"endTime":868.5400000000001,"body":"the SEND hub, there needs to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":868.5400000000001,"endTime":873.0400000000001,"body":"lots of pre tutoring and lots of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":868.5400000000001,"endTime":873.0400000000001,"body":"explicit learning about the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":873.0400000000001,"endTime":876.52,"body":"skills they need to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":873.0400000000001,"endTime":876.52,"body":"successful in the mainstream"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":876.52,"endTime":879.73,"body":"classroom. So we are setting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":876.52,"endTime":879.73,"body":"them up for success and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":879.76,"endTime":882.52,"body":"independence rather than this is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":879.76,"endTime":882.52,"body":"somewhere they're going because"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":882.52,"endTime":884.74,"body":"they just can't cope in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":882.52,"endTime":884.74,"body":"mainstream classroom, this is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":884.74,"endTime":887.59,"body":"actually building them up. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":884.74,"endTime":887.59,"body":"they have the skills they need"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":887.59,"endTime":889.78,"body":"to thrive in the mainstream"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":887.59,"endTime":889.78,"body":"classroom. What's your opinion"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":889.78,"endTime":890.2,"body":"on that, Emma?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":890.57,"endTime":893.87,"body":"I totally"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":890.57,"endTime":893.87,"body":"agree. I think sometimes these"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":893.87,"endTime":897.77,"body":"types of hubs are set up almost"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":893.87,"endTime":897.77,"body":"in desperation, because the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":897.77,"endTime":901.07,"body":"children are showing us through"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":897.77,"endTime":901.07,"body":"their behaviour that they can't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":901.07,"endTime":905.9300000000001,"body":"cope in the mainstream setting."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":901.07,"endTime":905.9300000000001,"body":"So our instinct is to pull them"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":905.9300000000001,"endTime":910.28,"body":"out of that setting, and put"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":905.9300000000001,"endTime":910.28,"body":"them in a different place, you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":910.28,"endTime":913.88,"body":"know, a little area like we've"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":910.28,"endTime":913.88,"body":"talked about, but it's really,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":913.88,"endTime":917.0,"body":"really important to keep the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":913.88,"endTime":917.0,"body":"connection with their peers in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":917.0,"endTime":920.21,"body":"their class, to keep the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":917.0,"endTime":920.21,"body":"connection with their teacher."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":920.6,"endTime":924.59,"body":"Because what's really difficult"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":920.6,"endTime":924.59,"body":"I think for the teacher is they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":924.59,"endTime":928.61,"body":"are still responsible for this"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":924.59,"endTime":928.61,"body":"pupil, it's entirely the buck"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":928.61,"endTime":931.5500000000001,"body":"stops with them, they are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":928.61,"endTime":931.5500000000001,"body":"responsible for the pupils"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":931.5500000000001,"endTime":935.36,"body":"learning, they should be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":931.5500000000001,"endTime":935.36,"body":"planning what the child is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":935.36,"endTime":938.84,"body":"doing, even if somebody else is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":935.36,"endTime":938.84,"body":"delivering that work as well."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":939.1700000000001,"endTime":942.86,"body":"And the longer the child is out"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":939.1700000000001,"endTime":942.86,"body":"of class, the harder it is, I"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":942.86,"endTime":945.5,"body":"think, for the teacher to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":942.86,"endTime":945.5,"body":"maintain that connection with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":945.5,"endTime":951.11,"body":"them. So it should very much be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":945.5,"endTime":951.11,"body":"needs led, but always with the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":951.11,"endTime":955.82,"body":"aim of how much can they do in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":951.11,"endTime":955.82,"body":"class? How can we get them to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":955.82,"endTime":959.15,"body":"integrate into their class? And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":955.82,"endTime":959.15,"body":"as you've rightly said, Simon,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":959.15,"endTime":963.1700000000001,"body":"they're not going to just be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":959.15,"endTime":963.1700000000001,"body":"able to magically do that. They"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":963.1700000000001,"endTime":967.7900000000001,"body":"are going to need teaching the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":963.1700000000001,"endTime":967.7900000000001,"body":"skills gap. What is it about the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":967.7900000000001,"endTime":970.82,"body":"mainstream environment that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":967.7900000000001,"endTime":970.82,"body":"they're not able to cope with?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":971.09,"endTime":975.59,"body":"And how can we change what that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":971.09,"endTime":975.59,"body":"environment looks like and make"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":975.59,"endTime":979.7900000000001,"body":"the child part way and then how"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":975.59,"endTime":979.7900000000001,"body":"can we build their skills so"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":979.7900000000001,"endTime":982.73,"body":"that they are able to cope for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":979.7900000000001,"endTime":982.73,"body":"more of the time?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":983.21,"endTime":985.94,"body":"I think what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":983.21,"endTime":985.94,"body":"you're implying here as well"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":985.94,"endTime":990.32,"body":"when we touch on this sort of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":985.94,"endTime":990.32,"body":"subject is actually, you need"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":990.32,"endTime":994.7,"body":"real careful assessment of what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":990.32,"endTime":994.7,"body":"those skills gaps are what those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":994.7,"endTime":998.15,"body":"needs are. So when they're in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":994.7,"endTime":998.15,"body":"the hub, the priority is on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":998.15,"endTime":1001.63,"body":"those specific needs. They might"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":998.15,"endTime":1001.63,"body":"be academic as well as social"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1001.63,"endTime":1005.9200000000001,"body":"and emotional or whatever the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1001.63,"endTime":1005.9200000000001,"body":"predominant need is, but it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1005.9200000000001,"endTime":1011.5,"body":"looks like a planned,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1005.9200000000001,"endTime":1011.5,"body":"structured, consistent thing,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1011.8000000000001,"endTime":1014.62,"body":"not just a room that the kids go"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1011.8000000000001,"endTime":1014.62,"body":"to because they can't cope in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1014.62,"endTime":1018.13,"body":"the mainstream classroom. It's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1014.62,"endTime":1018.13,"body":"very, very proactive. It's all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1018.13,"endTime":1022.57,"body":"about the communication between"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1018.13,"endTime":1022.57,"body":"the teacher and the adults in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1022.57,"endTime":1026.05,"body":"the hub. And ideally, I know"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1022.57,"endTime":1026.05,"body":"when Ofsted look at this, there"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1026.05,"endTime":1031.09,"body":"needs to be a qualified teacher,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1026.05,"endTime":1031.09,"body":"if not in the hub all of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1031.09,"endTime":1034.42,"body":"time, then taking a really"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1031.09,"endTime":1034.42,"body":"significant role in how those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1034.45,"endTime":1036.67,"body":"children's needs are being met."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1034.45,"endTime":1036.67,"body":"And that obviously, there's a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1036.67,"endTime":1039.61,"body":"communication issue between the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1036.67,"endTime":1039.61,"body":"adults in the hub and the adults"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1039.61,"endTime":1043.42,"body":"in the classroom. So you need to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1039.61,"endTime":1043.42,"body":"think about how the information"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1043.45,"endTime":1047.47,"body":"about how the child is doing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1043.45,"endTime":1047.47,"body":"assessments, what activities"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1047.56,"endTime":1050.35,"body":"need to be done in the hub in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1047.56,"endTime":1050.35,"body":"the classroom, how that kind of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1050.3799999999999,"endTime":1055.12,"body":"division of labour is going to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1050.3799999999999,"endTime":1055.12,"body":"be split, that requires systems"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1055.21,"endTime":1058.45,"body":"otherwise, that communication"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1055.21,"endTime":1058.45,"body":"just falls apart. And then"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1058.6,"endTime":1060.19,"body":"that's to the detriment of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1058.6,"endTime":1060.19,"body":"child."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1059.35,"endTime":1062.83,"body":"I'm glad you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1059.35,"endTime":1062.83,"body":"mentioned Ofsted Simon and have"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1062.83,"endTime":1067.72,"body":"you come across schools who have"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1062.83,"endTime":1067.72,"body":"been worried or reluctant to set"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1067.72,"endTime":1071.83,"body":"up this sort of hub provision"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1067.72,"endTime":1071.83,"body":"because they are concerned about"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1071.83,"endTime":1074.8899999999999,"body":"Ofsted? What Ofsted will think"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1071.83,"endTime":1074.8899999999999,"body":"of it and what Ofsted will make"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1074.8899999999999,"endTime":1077.53,"body":"of it? Have you come across"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1074.8899999999999,"endTime":1077.53,"body":"schools who have been, you know,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1077.53,"endTime":1079.87,"body":"a bit wary of going down this"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1077.53,"endTime":1079.87,"body":"route?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1079.92,"endTime":1082.62,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1079.92,"endTime":1082.62,"body":"absolutely. And I think it comes"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1082.6499999999999,"endTime":1088.59,"body":"down to does this look like an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1082.6499999999999,"endTime":1088.59,"body":"intentional planned intervention"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1088.59,"endTime":1090.81,"body":"that's there to support the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1088.59,"endTime":1090.81,"body":"children? Is there a golden"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1090.81,"endTime":1094.8899999999999,"body":"thread between what's happening"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1090.81,"endTime":1094.8899999999999,"body":"in the hub, what's happening in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1094.8899999999999,"endTime":1097.8,"body":"the mainstream classroom and the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1094.8899999999999,"endTime":1097.8,"body":"child's or IEP's or whatever you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1097.8,"endTime":1101.1,"body":"call them in your school? Have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1097.8,"endTime":1101.1,"body":"there been assessments done on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1101.1,"endTime":1104.94,"body":"the child's needs? Have those"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1101.1,"endTime":1104.94,"body":"needs then been translated into"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1104.94,"endTime":1110.19,"body":"very specific targets on their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1104.94,"endTime":1110.19,"body":"IEP? And then do those targets"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1110.19,"endTime":1114.8999999999999,"body":"translate into themselves"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1110.19,"endTime":1114.8999999999999,"body":"activities in the hub, which are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1114.8999999999999,"endTime":1119.2199999999998,"body":"skilling those students up to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1114.8999999999999,"endTime":1119.2199999999998,"body":"then be independent and survive"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1119.2199999999998,"endTime":1121.4099999999999,"body":"and thrive in the mainstream"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1119.2199999999998,"endTime":1121.4099999999999,"body":"unit? And this is a golden"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1121.4099999999999,"endTime":1124.8899999999999,"body":"thread between the curriculum in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1121.4099999999999,"endTime":1124.8899999999999,"body":"the mainstream classroom, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1124.8899999999999,"endTime":1127.83,"body":"activities and the interventions"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1124.8899999999999,"endTime":1127.83,"body":"going on in the hub, and there"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1127.83,"endTime":1133.26,"body":"are ups, then I think you've got"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1127.83,"endTime":1133.26,"body":"something that holds water that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1133.26,"endTime":1138.8999999999999,"body":"looks like it's supportive, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1133.26,"endTime":1138.8999999999999,"body":"it looks like high quality work"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1138.8999999999999,"endTime":1141.27,"body":"that's been done with the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1138.8999999999999,"endTime":1141.27,"body":"children. If you're a school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1141.27,"endTime":1143.3999999999999,"body":"where you've got a hUb, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1141.27,"endTime":1143.3999999999999,"body":"there's a couple of TAs in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1143.3999999999999,"endTime":1146.58,"body":"there, and there's 6,7,8 kids,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1143.3999999999999,"endTime":1146.58,"body":"and they're playing all day,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1146.58,"endTime":1150.81,"body":"then I would be very concerned,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1146.58,"endTime":1150.81,"body":"if I was the teacher, it's the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1150.81,"endTime":1153.4199999999998,"body":"support around this and the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1150.81,"endTime":1153.4199999999998,"body":"planning and the assessment and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1153.4199999999998,"endTime":1156.48,"body":"making sure that everything's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1153.4199999999998,"endTime":1156.48,"body":"joined up, that turns into a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1156.48,"endTime":1157.62,"body":"high quality intervention."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1157.8,"endTime":1160.8,"body":"Absolutely. And"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1157.8,"endTime":1160.8,"body":"I think, where I've found"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1160.8,"endTime":1164.52,"body":"schools struggling with this,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1160.8,"endTime":1164.52,"body":"it's where they have, really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1164.52,"endTime":1168.75,"body":"through all good intention and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1164.52,"endTime":1168.75,"body":"not wanting to exclude a child,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1168.75,"endTime":1172.23,"body":"for example, they've set up this"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1168.75,"endTime":1172.23,"body":"provision, and they've put in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1172.23,"endTime":1176.61,"body":"there, all of the most needy,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1172.23,"endTime":1176.61,"body":"difficult, complex children,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1176.61,"endTime":1179.6399999999999,"body":"they've brought them out of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1176.61,"endTime":1179.6399999999999,"body":"class. And on the one hand, it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1179.6399999999999,"endTime":1182.9399999999998,"body":"looks like it's working, because"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1179.6399999999999,"endTime":1182.9399999999998,"body":"in the mainstream classes, the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1182.9399999999998,"endTime":1185.85,"body":"children might be progressing"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1182.9399999999998,"endTime":1185.85,"body":"because their learning isn't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1185.85,"endTime":1189.6299999999999,"body":"being disrupted anymore. But"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1185.85,"endTime":1189.6299999999999,"body":"actually, the dynamics of the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1189.6299999999999,"endTime":1193.1699999999998,"body":"children that have been putting"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1189.6299999999999,"endTime":1193.1699999999998,"body":"to the hub mean that it's just"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1193.1699999999998,"endTime":1196.53,"body":"unworkable, you've got too many"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1193.1699999999998,"endTime":1196.53,"body":"children in there too complex"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1196.53,"endTime":1201.0,"body":"needs staff that aren't skilled"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1196.53,"endTime":1201.0,"body":"or equipped or trained well"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1201.0,"endTime":1204.3,"body":"enough to cope with those"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1201.0,"endTime":1204.3,"body":"children. And it's really tough"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1204.3,"endTime":1208.23,"body":"for those staff because they get"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1204.3,"endTime":1208.23,"body":"left out on a limb. And what are"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1208.23,"endTime":1211.35,"body":"they supposed to do, if they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1208.23,"endTime":1211.35,"body":"haven't had the training? It's"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1211.35,"endTime":1214.9499999999998,"body":"really tough. And that isn't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1211.35,"endTime":1214.9499999999998,"body":"going to work. And and as you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1214.9499999999998,"endTime":1217.9499999999998,"body":"mentioned, earlier Simon, some"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1214.9499999999998,"endTime":1217.9499999999998,"body":"of those children get so"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1217.9499999999998,"endTime":1222.9299999999998,"body":"institutionalised by being in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1217.9499999999998,"endTime":1222.9299999999998,"body":"that small group setting by"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1223.08,"endTime":1226.98,"body":"maybe being allowed to do what"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1223.08,"endTime":1226.98,"body":"they want and having little"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1226.98,"endTime":1231.81,"body":"adult direction. The gap then,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1226.98,"endTime":1231.81,"body":"between what they're doing now"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1231.81,"endTime":1235.77,"body":"and coming back into the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1231.81,"endTime":1235.77,"body":"mainstream setting grows, which"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1235.77,"endTime":1238.53,"body":"is actually absolutely the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1235.77,"endTime":1238.53,"body":"opposite of what we're trying to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1238.53,"endTime":1242.6699999999998,"body":"do here. So it is a real"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1238.53,"endTime":1242.6699999999998,"body":"delicate balance, and it needs a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1242.6699999999998,"endTime":1247.02,"body":"lot of careful thinking. And it"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1242.6699999999998,"endTime":1247.02,"body":"must be a whole school approach."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1247.1399999999999,"endTime":1250.5,"body":"You need your SEND coordinator,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1247.1399999999999,"endTime":1250.5,"body":"you need your SLT, you need your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1250.5,"endTime":1256.05,"body":"teachers, your TAs, everybody"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1250.5,"endTime":1256.05,"body":"sitting down and working out how"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1256.05,"endTime":1259.1999999999998,"body":"this is going to work out best"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1256.05,"endTime":1259.1999999999998,"body":"and continually reflecting on"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1259.1999999999998,"endTime":1263.07,"body":"that process as well, to make"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1259.1999999999998,"endTime":1263.07,"body":"sure that this is the best for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1263.1,"endTime":1266.3999999999999,"body":"all of the children and all of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1263.1,"endTime":1266.3999999999999,"body":"the adults actually as well."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1266.3799999999999,"endTime":1269.0649999999998,"body":"Yeah, for me,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1266.3799999999999,"endTime":1269.0649999999998,"body":"one of the things that marks out"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1269.1239999999998,"endTime":1272.744,"body":"high quality from low quality"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1269.1239999999998,"endTime":1272.744,"body":"provision here is has the school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1272.802,"endTime":1275.605,"body":"thought through what the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1272.802,"endTime":1275.605,"body":"referral process is for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1275.663,"endTime":1278.8159999999998,"body":"accessing the hub. What is the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1275.663,"endTime":1278.8159999999998,"body":"bar does the child need"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1278.875,"endTime":1282.6109999999999,"body":"something like an ehcp or a kind"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1278.875,"endTime":1282.6109999999999,"body":"of pre ehcp level of assessment"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1282.6699999999998,"endTime":1285.8229999999999,"body":"and support or is it around"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1282.6699999999998,"endTime":1285.8229999999999,"body":"exclusion? Or is it around"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1285.8809999999999,"endTime":1289.443,"body":"behaviour incidents in school?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1285.8809999999999,"endTime":1289.443,"body":"Is it about having a graduated"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1289.501,"endTime":1293.2959999999998,"body":"approach where other things have"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1289.501,"endTime":1293.2959999999998,"body":"been tried systematically in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1293.355,"endTime":1296.975,"body":"classroom first before, saying"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1293.355,"endTime":1296.975,"body":"this child needs support in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1297.033,"endTime":1300.4199999999998,"body":"hub? Because if we're not"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1297.033,"endTime":1300.4199999999998,"body":"careful, what can happen is that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1300.4779999999998,"endTime":1303.981,"body":"teaching staff start to abdicate"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1300.4779999999998,"endTime":1303.981,"body":"responsibility for teaching"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1304.04,"endTime":1307.7769999999998,"body":"pupils with SEMH needs, and the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1304.04,"endTime":1307.7769999999998,"body":"reaction becomes Oh we're having"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1307.8349999999998,"endTime":1311.222,"body":"a behaviour difficulty, our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1307.8349999999998,"endTime":1311.222,"body":"first reaction is going to be,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1311.28,"endTime":1314.783,"body":"he needs to go in the hub or she"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1311.28,"endTime":1314.783,"body":"needs to go in the hub when"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1314.8419999999999,"endTime":1318.579,"body":"actually some lower level works"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1314.8419999999999,"endTime":1318.579,"body":"and good, consistent whole class"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1318.637,"endTime":1322.3739999999998,"body":"strategies. Some individualised"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1318.637,"endTime":1322.3739999999998,"body":"support from the teachers or any"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1322.432,"endTime":1325.935,"body":"of the adults in the room may"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1322.432,"endTime":1325.935,"body":"have been enough, because this"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1325.994,"endTime":1329.5559999999998,"body":"is an expensive intervention."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1325.994,"endTime":1329.5559999999998,"body":"It's a significant intervention"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1329.6139999999998,"endTime":1333.059,"body":"in terms of time and money and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1329.6139999999998,"endTime":1333.059,"body":"support. So we need to think"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1333.117,"endTime":1336.7369999999999,"body":"about who actually qualifies for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1333.117,"endTime":1336.7369999999999,"body":"that support and who doesn't."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1336.7959999999998,"endTime":1339.9489999999998,"body":"And it needs to be kind of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1336.7959999999998,"endTime":1339.9489999999998,"body":"written down somewhere in a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1340.0069999999998,"endTime":1343.3349999999998,"body":"policy or it needs to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1340.0069999999998,"endTime":1343.3349999999998,"body":"something formal, not done on an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1343.394,"endTime":1346.838,"body":"ad hoc basis. And that way"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1343.394,"endTime":1346.838,"body":"everyone knows where they stand."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1346.897,"endTime":1350.225,"body":"And it ensures that classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1346.897,"endTime":1350.225,"body":"practitioners are doing the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1350.283,"endTime":1353.7279999999998,"body":"right things in the classroom,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1350.283,"endTime":1353.7279999999998,"body":"before we kind of hit DEFCON"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1353.7869999999998,"endTime":1357.232,"body":"five, and we say, oh, no, is it"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1353.7869999999998,"endTime":1357.232,"body":"DEFCON one? I cant remember"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1357.29,"endTime":1360.793,"body":"which was the most serious in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1357.29,"endTime":1360.793,"body":"wargames? Before we hit DEFCON"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1360.8519999999999,"endTime":1364.413,"body":"one. And it's kind of like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1360.8519999999999,"endTime":1364.413,"body":"no, this child needs to go in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1364.472,"endTime":1368.033,"body":"the hub because we can't manage"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1364.472,"endTime":1368.033,"body":"their needs in the classroom."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1368.0919999999999,"endTime":1371.011,"body":"No, actually, there are things"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1368.0919999999999,"endTime":1371.011,"body":"we need to be doing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1371.07,"endTime":1374.398,"body":"systematically. And well, first,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1371.07,"endTime":1374.398,"body":"before we even have that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1374.456,"endTime":1378.0179999999998,"body":"discussion, and that needs to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1374.456,"endTime":1378.0179999999998,"body":"written down, it needs to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1378.076,"endTime":1381.638,"body":"high quality provision, with a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1378.076,"endTime":1381.638,"body":"referral process with a golden"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1381.696,"endTime":1385.0829999999999,"body":"thread not the cupboard the kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1381.696,"endTime":1385.0829999999999,"body":"are sent to because their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1385.1409999999998,"endTime":1387.01,"body":"behaviour is difficult in class."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1387.1899999999998,"endTime":1389.32,"body":"Yeah, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1387.1899999999998,"endTime":1389.32,"body":"just picking up on what you said"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1389.32,"endTime":1392.8,"body":"there about the referral"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1389.32,"endTime":1392.8,"body":"criteria and the entry into the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1392.8,"endTime":1396.28,"body":"hub, I think there are some"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1392.8,"endTime":1396.28,"body":"difficult decisions to be made"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1396.28,"endTime":1400.0,"body":"sometimes, because let's say a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1396.28,"endTime":1400.0,"body":"school agrees that they can"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1400.0,"endTime":1404.32,"body":"facilitate this kind of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1400.0,"endTime":1404.32,"body":"provision for five pupils. But"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1404.32,"endTime":1408.4299999999998,"body":"then actually, when they look at"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1404.32,"endTime":1408.4299999999998,"body":"the children who might qualify"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1408.4299999999998,"endTime":1412.4199999999998,"body":"and who need this extra small"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1408.4299999999998,"endTime":1412.4199999999998,"body":"group intervention, there might"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1412.4199999999998,"endTime":1417.79,"body":"be 10, or 15, or 20 of those."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1412.4199999999998,"endTime":1417.79,"body":"And of course, putting"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1418.03,"endTime":1423.6999999999998,"body":"5,10,15,20 children with high"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1418.03,"endTime":1423.6999999999998,"body":"needs into a group is not going"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1423.6999999999998,"endTime":1428.6799999999998,"body":"to work. So sometimes it's very"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1423.6999999999998,"endTime":1428.6799999999998,"body":"much about timings, can we think"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1428.6799999999998,"endTime":1431.29,"body":"really carefully about the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1428.6799999999998,"endTime":1431.29,"body":"dynamics of the children within"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1431.29,"endTime":1435.01,"body":"the group so that they can be"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1431.29,"endTime":1435.01,"body":"successful? What's the exit"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1435.01,"endTime":1439.54,"body":"criteria for this group? How do"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1435.01,"endTime":1439.54,"body":"we get children back out of here"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1439.7199999999998,"endTime":1443.32,"body":"and into mainstream so that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1439.7199999999998,"endTime":1443.32,"body":"somebody else can have a turn,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1443.3799999999999,"endTime":1446.05,"body":"it is a really, really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1443.3799999999999,"endTime":1446.05,"body":"complicated process, I think the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1446.05,"endTime":1451.06,"body":"dynamics and the entry and exit"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1446.05,"endTime":1451.06,"body":"criteria are crucial. And I also"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1451.06,"endTime":1456.4299999999998,"body":"think that routines within the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1451.06,"endTime":1456.4299999999998,"body":"group are crucial to so this is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1456.4299999999998,"endTime":1460.4499999999998,"body":"where you should be seeing your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1456.4299999999998,"endTime":1460.4499999999998,"body":"absolute best practice, which"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1460.4499999999998,"endTime":1464.29,"body":"hopefully is reflected across"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1460.4499999999998,"endTime":1464.29,"body":"the school as well. But in here,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1464.29,"endTime":1467.9199999999998,"body":"it's more important than ever."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1464.29,"endTime":1467.9199999999998,"body":"So are we using visual"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1467.9199999999998,"endTime":1471.8799999999999,"body":"timetables? Are we over"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1467.9199999999998,"endTime":1471.8799999999999,"body":"communicating to the children?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1472.03,"endTime":1476.05,"body":"What is happening now? What is"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1472.03,"endTime":1476.05,"body":"happening next? Are we thinking"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1476.05,"endTime":1480.07,"body":"about cognitive overload? How"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1476.05,"endTime":1480.07,"body":"are we giving instructions, what"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1480.07,"endTime":1483.4599999999998,"body":"access if we got to outdoor"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1480.07,"endTime":1483.4599999999998,"body":"space and movement breaks,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1483.73,"endTime":1489.04,"body":"really, really drilling down and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1483.73,"endTime":1489.04,"body":"making this kind of your best"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1489.04,"endTime":1493.03,"body":"practice, which then hopefully"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1489.04,"endTime":1493.03,"body":"can permeate across the whole"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1493.03,"endTime":1496.2099999999998,"body":"school as well. And that's the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1493.03,"endTime":1496.2099999999998,"body":"dream, isn't it, that you've got"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1496.2099999999998,"endTime":1499.54,"body":"whole school provision, really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1496.2099999999998,"endTime":1499.54,"body":"high quality. And then you've"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1499.54,"endTime":1503.35,"body":"also got SEND Hub provision of"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1499.54,"endTime":1503.35,"body":"really high quality. So the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1503.35,"endTime":1507.07,"body":"children who are going between"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1503.35,"endTime":1507.07,"body":"the two are getting that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1507.07,"endTime":1510.52,"body":"consistency of approach. They"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1507.07,"endTime":1510.52,"body":"know every teacher is going to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1510.52,"endTime":1513.9399999999998,"body":"talk to me in this way, every"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1510.52,"endTime":1513.9399999999998,"body":"classroom is going to have a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1513.9399999999998,"endTime":1519.01,"body":"visual timetable. So they can"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1513.9399999999998,"endTime":1519.01,"body":"feel consistency and security"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1519.04,"endTime":1522.31,"body":"and safety. And then they've got"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1519.04,"endTime":1522.31,"body":"the best chance of being able to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1522.31,"endTime":1523.48,"body":"access the learning."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1523.8,"endTime":1525.3,"body":"Yeah, youve got"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1523.8,"endTime":1525.3,"body":"to plan it right. Youve got to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1525.3,"endTime":1527.79,"body":"staff it right. You got to make"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1525.3,"endTime":1527.79,"body":"sure those staff have the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1527.79,"endTime":1531.24,"body":"training. And then really, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1527.79,"endTime":1531.24,"body":"benefits when you get this right"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1531.3,"endTime":1535.23,"body":"are you have a calmer learning"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1531.3,"endTime":1535.23,"body":"environment for the students"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1535.23,"endTime":1539.07,"body":"within the hub because they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1535.23,"endTime":1539.07,"body":"aren't being overwhelmed by"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1539.1,"endTime":1543.87,"body":"social anxiety or sensory input."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1539.1,"endTime":1543.87,"body":"That means they can focus, they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1543.87,"endTime":1546.6599999999999,"body":"get the right level of support,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1543.87,"endTime":1546.6599999999999,"body":"so they aren't having learned"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1546.6599999999999,"endTime":1550.1399999999999,"body":"dependence, but they're getting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1546.6599999999999,"endTime":1550.1399999999999,"body":"perhaps a higher adult pupil"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1550.1399999999999,"endTime":1554.1899999999998,"body":"ratio, which helps them learn"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1550.1399999999999,"endTime":1554.1899999999998,"body":"those skills, they need to be in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1554.1899999999998,"endTime":1557.25,"body":"the mainstream classroom or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1554.1899999999998,"endTime":1557.25,"body":"overcome academic barriers."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1557.25,"endTime":1561.36,"body":"They're having the pre tutoring,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1557.25,"endTime":1561.36,"body":"they need to be successful. And"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1561.36,"endTime":1564.36,"body":"they can access specific"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1561.36,"endTime":1564.36,"body":"teaching methods that might be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1564.36,"endTime":1567.36,"body":"difficult to implement in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1564.36,"endTime":1567.36,"body":"classroom with, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1567.36,"endTime":1570.7199999999998,"body":"lower number of adults, when you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1567.36,"endTime":1570.7199999999998,"body":"put that together, and you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1570.7199999999998,"endTime":1573.24,"body":"meeting the kids in an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1570.7199999999998,"endTime":1573.24,"body":"affordable way, which is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1573.24,"endTime":1575.6999999999998,"body":"important because we have to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1573.24,"endTime":1575.6999999999998,"body":"live in the real world here. You"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1575.6999999999998,"endTime":1579.54,"body":"can't spend money twice, three"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1575.6999999999998,"endTime":1579.54,"body":"times four times. Budgets are"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1579.54,"endTime":1581.6399999999999,"body":"limited. And when you look at"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1579.54,"endTime":1581.6399999999999,"body":"budgets actually we need to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1581.6399999999999,"endTime":1585.51,"body":"think about in the UK. Over the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1581.6399999999999,"endTime":1585.51,"body":"last few years we've had things"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1585.51,"endTime":1589.6799999999998,"body":"like National Insurance rises"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1585.51,"endTime":1589.6799999999998,"body":"which is a tax on income, which"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1589.6799999999998,"endTime":1592.83,"body":"hasn't really been funded in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1589.6799999999998,"endTime":1592.83,"body":"schools. You know, you've got"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1592.83,"endTime":1595.86,"body":"these increased pressures of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1592.83,"endTime":1595.86,"body":"additional pupils with SEND"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1595.8899999999999,"endTime":1599.9699999999998,"body":"needs, and really SEND funding"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1595.8899999999999,"endTime":1599.9699999999998,"body":"hasn't changed to accommodate"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1599.9699999999998,"endTime":1603.9299999999998,"body":"that. When budgets are tight,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1599.9699999999998,"endTime":1603.9299999999998,"body":"this can be a way of providing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1604.02,"endTime":1607.77,"body":"excellent provision in a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1604.02,"endTime":1607.77,"body":"sustainable way, which leads to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1607.77,"endTime":1610.9199999999998,"body":"success for the kids success for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1607.77,"endTime":1610.9199999999998,"body":"the adults as well."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1611.07,"endTime":1614.34,"body":"And that's our"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1611.07,"endTime":1614.34,"body":"overview or guide to thinking"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1614.34,"endTime":1618.75,"body":"about how to set up a really"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1614.34,"endTime":1618.75,"body":"successful SEND hub in your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1618.75,"endTime":1619.4399999999998,"body":"school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1619.56,"endTime":1622.23,"body":"They can work"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1619.56,"endTime":1622.23,"body":"well for pupils with SEMH needs"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1622.23,"endTime":1626.2199999999998,"body":"done right. Remember, the aim is"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1622.23,"endTime":1626.2199999999998,"body":"to help them succeed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1626.25,"endTime":1629.04,"body":"independently within school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1626.25,"endTime":1629.04,"body":"rather than creating that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1629.07,"endTime":1631.9499999999998,"body":"dependence that learned"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1629.07,"endTime":1631.9499999999998,"body":"helplessness."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1631.35,"endTime":1634.4399999999998,"body":"And they've got"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1631.35,"endTime":1634.4399999999998,"body":"to be planned and structured and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1634.4399999999998,"endTime":1639.6599999999999,"body":"have a very clear entry and exit"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1634.4399999999998,"endTime":1639.6599999999999,"body":"criteria to be effective. And by"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1639.6599999999999,"endTime":1643.3799999999999,"body":"the way, don't forget to give"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1639.6599999999999,"endTime":1643.3799999999999,"body":"our podcast a rating and review."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1643.56,"endTime":1647.31,"body":"Whether you're using Apple"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1643.56,"endTime":1647.31,"body":"podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1647.31,"endTime":1651.57,"body":"whatever. Every review tells"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1647.31,"endTime":1651.57,"body":"your podcast provider to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1651.57,"endTime":1655.32,"body":"recommend us to other listeners"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1651.57,"endTime":1655.32,"body":"so that they can find the show"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1655.35,"endTime":1658.6499999999999,"body":"and start getting the help they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1655.35,"endTime":1658.6499999999999,"body":"need to support the children in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1658.6499999999999,"endTime":1659.9699999999998,"body":"their classrooms too."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1660.06,"endTime":1663.09,"body":"Leaving a review will make you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1660.06,"endTime":1663.09,"body":"feel like Little Jack Horner"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1663.09,"endTime":1666.51,"body":"putting his thumb into some"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1663.09,"endTime":1666.51,"body":"sweet Christmas pie and pulling"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1666.51,"endTime":1671.8799999999999,"body":"out a plum. Be a winner. Be like"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1666.51,"endTime":1671.8799999999999,"body":"Jack. leave a review for School"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1671.8799999999999,"endTime":1673.05,"body":"Behaviour Secrets."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1673.08,"endTime":1675.24,"body":"And you might be relieved to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1673.08,"endTime":1675.24,"body":"hear that, that's all we've got"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1675.24,"endTime":1679.59,"body":"time for today. Thanks so much"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1675.24,"endTime":1679.59,"body":"for listening. Have a brilliant"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1679.59,"endTime":1682.53,"body":"week, and we'll see you next"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1679.59,"endTime":1682.53,"body":"time on school behaviour"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1682.53,"endTime":1683.04,"body":"secrets."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1683.53,"endTime":1683.98,"body":"Take care"}]}