{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":87.35799999999999,"endTime":91.359,"body":"Ever wished you had a secret arsenal of skills to effortlessly navigate the chaos of a classroom?"},{"startTime":92.362,"endTime":97.37599999999999,"body":"Well, buckle up because Rob Plevin is here to spill the beans on the game changing strategies"},{"startTime":97.38999999999999,"endTime":102.41,"body":"that every teacher needs in the classroom. Forget the painful trial and error phase. Rob's got"},{"startTime":102.41,"endTime":107.395,"body":"the keys to unlock seamless behaviour management, and he's sharing them with us today. Tune"},{"startTime":107.395,"endTime":114.38999999999999,"body":"in now, and join us on a journey into mastering the art of classroom management. Welcome to"},{"startTime":114.38999999999999,"endTime":119.43599999999999,"body":"the School Behaviour Secrets podcast. I'm your host, Simon Currigan. My co host is Emma Shackleton,"},{"startTime":120.35,"endTime":125.38,"body":"and we're obsessed with helping teachers, school leaders, parents, and of course, students when"},{"startTime":125.38,"endTime":130.363,"body":"classroom behaviour gets in the way of success. We're gonna share the tried and tested secrets"},{"startTime":130.363,"endTime":135.351,"body":"to classroom management, behavioural special needs, whole school strategy, and more, all with"},{"startTime":135.351,"endTime":140.403,"body":"the aim of helping your students reach their true potential. Plus, we'll be letting you eavesdrop"},{"startTime":140.409,"endTime":146.367,"body":"on our conversations with thought leaders from around the world. So you'll get to hear the latest"},{"startTime":146.367,"endTime":153.35199999999998,"body":"evidence based strategies before anyone else. This is the School Behaviour Secrets podcast. Hi"},{"startTime":153.35199999999998,"endTime":158.35399999999998,"body":"there. Simon Currigan here, and I'm back today with another special essentials episode where we"},{"startTime":158.35399999999998,"endTime":162.415,"body":"share some key strategies and insights from an earlier episode that can have an immediate impact"},{"startTime":162.437,"endTime":166.413,"body":"on the students that you work with. And if you're enjoying this podcast, please remember to"},{"startTime":166.413,"endTime":171.423,"body":"subscribe in your podcast app now so you never miss another thing. This week, I'm going to share"},{"startTime":171.423,"endTime":178.403,"body":"part of a conversation I had with Rob Plevin back in 2022. Rob's an author and expert on the"},{"startTime":178.403,"endTime":183.44299999999998,"body":"topic of classroom management. And in this episode, he explains the techniques that he uses"},{"startTime":183.449,"endTime":191.358,"body":"to create a productive learning environment. So what sort of specific classroom management techniques"},{"startTime":191.358,"endTime":196.42,"body":"do you find have the most impact then on encouraging more positive behaviour in class?"},{"startTime":196.43599999999998,"endTime":201.416,"body":"Okay. So in in terms of encouraging behaviour, I think one of the very best to do, there are"},{"startTime":201.416,"endTime":206.414,"body":"many, but one of the very best thing is to focus on positive reinforcement. But we've gotta"},{"startTime":206.414,"endTime":212.389,"body":"do that right. Now I'll give you an example. My daughter, she's 7. She had a friend over a little"},{"startTime":212.389,"endTime":216.426,"body":"while back and they're both quite lively. My daughter's quite lively and her friend's quite"},{"startTime":216.426,"endTime":222.42499999999998,"body":"lively. It was in danger of becoming mayhem. I found myself almost slipping in to being that"},{"startTime":222.42499999999998,"endTime":227.36499999999998,"body":"type of dad that does a lot of shouting, and he's quite angry and very stressed out. And I don't"},{"startTime":227.36499999999998,"endTime":231.429,"body":"want to be that dad. I've been that dad before, and it doesn't work. So I I don't wanna be that"},{"startTime":231.429,"endTime":236.379,"body":"that kind of person. And I just remembered that this really is the key to it, positive reinforcement,"},{"startTime":236.409,"endTime":241.39,"body":"looking out for things going right rather than being quick to jump on things that go wrong."},{"startTime":241.43699999999998,"endTime":246.355,"body":"It's a totally different environment. It's a totally different way of working in terms of managing"},{"startTime":246.355,"endTime":251.367,"body":"behaviour, and it brings very, very different results. So, basically, all I did was as soon as"},{"startTime":251.367,"endTime":255.406,"body":"I saw the slightest improvement in either of them or either one of them doing something right,"},{"startTime":255.358,"endTime":259.406,"body":"I immediately praised them and thanked them and said, you know, you're making the day go really,"},{"startTime":259.406,"endTime":263.355,"body":"really smoothly. You're making everything wonderful by the way you're behaving. And immediately,"},{"startTime":263.422,"endTime":267.438,"body":"the other little girl wanted that positive attention. She wanted that positive reinforcement."},{"startTime":268.36,"endTime":273.384,"body":"And the behaviour changed in an instant. Kids love to please. They love to do the right thing"},{"startTime":273.384,"endTime":277.43399999999997,"body":"when it's acknowledged and when it's reinforced. So it was really just about paying attention"},{"startTime":277.359,"endTime":281.384,"body":"to them doing anything positive. I've got to apologize for my dog."},{"startTime":281.384,"endTime":283.354,"body":"He's desperate to get on on the interview."},{"startTime":283.384,"endTime":286.43600000000004,"body":"Every single time we do anything online, he's there in the background."},{"startTime":286.44399999999996,"endTime":287.43399999999997,"body":"He's more than welcome."},{"startTime":287.359,"endTime":292.35699999999997,"body":"I give strict instructions to my family to keep the dog quiet. They need to do some praise with"},{"startTime":292.35699999999997,"endTime":298.35299999999995,"body":"him, you see. He'll respond to that. But yeah. So when we switch to that watching out for them"},{"startTime":298.35299999999995,"endTime":302.37699999999995,"body":"doing something right, it's it's miraculous and amazing. Never ceases to amaze me how quick"},{"startTime":302.37699999999995,"endTime":306.432,"body":"they respond and how quick they change. So positive reinforcement has to be done right because"},{"startTime":306.432,"endTime":311.35299999999995,"body":"this is really important. Years ago when I was teaching in special schools and there was this"},{"startTime":311.35299999999995,"endTime":316.35299999999995,"body":"directive that came round from senior staff saying, we really need to address positive atmosphere"},{"startTime":316.35299999999995,"endTime":321.351,"body":"in our classrooms. We need to do more to establish and maintain this positive language and positive"},{"startTime":321.373,"endTime":326.409,"body":"environment. So from now on, you need to be using far more positive language than negatives."},{"startTime":326.409,"endTime":331.403,"body":"We want a lot more praise and a lot less criticism. So you got this situation where support"},{"startTime":331.403,"endTime":335.395,"body":"staff were going around literally with a a checklist, and they were putting a check mark on"},{"startTime":335.395,"endTime":340.356,"body":"a piece of paper every time a member of staff said anything positive, such as well done, that's"},{"startTime":340.356,"endTime":344.44399999999996,"body":"great, excellent, and a little cross every time we said anything like, don't do that, don't"},{"startTime":344.44399999999996,"endTime":348.41499999999996,"body":"do that, not that. So any negative got a cross and any positive got a tick. And at the end of"},{"startTime":348.41499999999996,"endTime":353.405,"body":"the lesson, the support staff are going, this is incredible. We've said, like, 80 positive phrases"},{"startTime":353.41099999999994,"endTime":357.405,"body":"compared to 5 negatives. Isn't that brilliant? But actually what was happening was that we were"},{"startTime":357.405,"endTime":362.433,"body":"paying all our attention to volume and quantity. And it was all about how many positive comments"},{"startTime":362.433,"endTime":368.366,"body":"can you say. So you got these wishy washy throwaway comments like excellent, well done, brilliant."},{"startTime":368.366,"endTime":372.432,"body":"And staff in in many cases weren't even looking at the students they were talking to. They were"},{"startTime":372.432,"endTime":377.356,"body":"so concerned with getting through the lesson and saying a load of positive comments that they"},{"startTime":377.356,"endTime":381.4,"body":"didn't really pay attention to the kids. The comments didn't really hit home. And so consequently,"},{"startTime":381.4,"endTime":385.448,"body":"it had very little effect. Praise has to be really authentic. It's gotta be from the heart."},{"startTime":386.37199999999996,"endTime":390.35699999999997,"body":"Real authentic praise comes from the heart, and it goes straight to the heart as well. So if"},{"startTime":390.35699999999997,"endTime":394.448,"body":"we notice what a student's doing, if we'd noticed they've done something right, and we jump"},{"startTime":394.448,"endTime":399.438,"body":"on that and acknowledge that, then we will see differences, and and we see it very, very quickly."},{"startTime":399.44399999999996,"endTime":404.38,"body":"And it doesn't have to be huge thing. You know, just thanking a child for holding a door or,"},{"startTime":404.38,"endTime":409.40200000000004,"body":"you know, in some cases, actually bringing a pen to class, they are very small things. But if"},{"startTime":409.40200000000004,"endTime":415.35900000000004,"body":"we just let them go, unacknowledged, then what's there to make them do it again? You know, behaviour"},{"startTime":415.37,"endTime":421.351,"body":"is reinforced and we get what we pay attention to of course. So if we're constantly saying not"},{"startTime":421.351,"endTime":424.43499999999995,"body":"that way this way and don't do that, do this and don't do that then we're not gonna get the"},{"startTime":424.43499999999995,"endTime":426.40099999999995,"body":"positive change that we're looking for."},{"startTime":426.40099999999995,"endTime":430.37699999999995,"body":"Can I just unpack one thing actually? I just wonder if you've got any sort of strategies or"},{"startTime":430.37699999999995,"endTime":434.42499999999995,"body":"advice. You said it's very easy to slip into this reactive highlighting the negative. We need"},{"startTime":434.42499999999995,"endTime":439.44500000000005,"body":"to be intentional about our practice if we want to change it and encourage more positive, authentic"},{"startTime":440.36699999999996,"endTime":444.376,"body":"praise in the classroom. How do we change that as the person in the front of the room?"},{"startTime":444.376,"endTime":449.36400000000003,"body":"Actually, you're dead right to unpack this because I think in any training situation, as a trainer,"},{"startTime":449.36400000000003,"endTime":453.403,"body":"you know, we're very quick to say this is what needs to be done. But oftentimes, we don't say"},{"startTime":453.403,"endTime":459.385,"body":"this is how you do it. Now we can talk about changing behaviour on a superficial level, I. E."},{"startTime":459.385,"endTime":464.37300000000005,"body":"On the behaviour level. And we do it with kids by reinforcing it through praise and through reward"},{"startTime":464.37300000000005,"endTime":469.375,"body":"and things like that. But with adults, how indeed do we get them to change their behaviour? It's"},{"startTime":469.375,"endTime":474.448,"body":"a bit like making a new year's resolution to lose weight or go to the gym. And seldom does that"},{"startTime":474.448,"endTime":479.39599999999996,"body":"habit get ingrained unless we're really committed to it and we put everything else on hold and"},{"startTime":479.39599999999996,"endTime":483.43499999999995,"body":"we really diligently say right, I'm gonna lose x pounds or whatever. Focus is a big part of"},{"startTime":483.43499999999995,"endTime":489.355,"body":"it but I think we've gotta get underneath what actually drives our behaviour and this goes for"},{"startTime":489.355,"endTime":495.35799999999995,"body":"kids as well. It's our emotions, it's our feelings, it's our beliefs, and it's our attitudes"},{"startTime":495.38,"endTime":501.37199999999996,"body":"that lie underneath our own behaviour. So if we have the attitude, for example, that these kids"},{"startTime":501.37199999999996,"endTime":508.448,"body":"are frustrating, time consuming, really annoying, unteachable, and really bad, then our behaviour"},{"startTime":509.37800000000004,"endTime":514.366,"body":"in terms of the responses that we use, in terms of the strategies we use, and the tools we use"},{"startTime":514.366,"endTime":520.408,"body":"to manage them is gonna be very different to having an attitude of care, support, dare I say"},{"startTime":520.408,"endTime":525.441,"body":"it, love, and actually wanting these kids to succeed. You have a very negative attitude, you"},{"startTime":525.441,"endTime":530.413,"body":"use a negative toolbox. It's obvious. As you have a positive attitude, you'll be more inclined"},{"startTime":530.413,"endTime":535.377,"body":"to use positive responses. And as we all know, the positive responses are the ones that work."},{"startTime":535.377,"endTime":539.441,"body":"When kids see that we are there to help them, to care for them, to help them succeed, and really"},{"startTime":539.441,"endTime":544.441,"body":"are interested in them, and really value them as individuals then they will respond. If we're"},{"startTime":544.441,"endTime":550.408,"body":"constantly on their backs nagging them, threatening them, punishing them, At best we get reluctant"},{"startTime":550.413,"endTime":554.438,"body":"compliance, at worst we get a brick through our car window. I've seen that many times in some"},{"startTime":554.438,"endTime":559.438,"body":"of the centers I've worked in. So if we're gonna make the changes, it really starts with our"},{"startTime":559.438,"endTime":565.352,"body":"attitude. And I'll give you one really good way to in fact, I'll tell you about the way to find"},{"startTime":565.352,"endTime":568.358,"body":"that out later. I'm gonna keep that one back Okay. Because it's game changing."},{"startTime":570.428,"endTime":575.422,"body":"Which technique do you think has the most impact on managing negative classroom behaviour?"},{"startTime":575.428,"endTime":580.444,"body":"I would say without doubt, it's, the relationship. So the relationship that we have with our"},{"startTime":580.444,"endTime":585.377,"body":"children, the relationships that we build in the classroom. So not just the teacher student"},{"startTime":585.377,"endTime":590.4159999999999,"body":"relationship, but the peer relationships that that whole classroom camaraderie is really essential"},{"startTime":590.4159999999999,"endTime":595.388,"body":"to rectifying behaviour problems and encouraging more positive. I believe it's the single most"},{"startTime":595.388,"endTime":599.443,"body":"important aspect actually of classroom management, teacher student relationship. There's a saying"},{"startTime":599.443,"endTime":604.447,"body":"in marketing that people will only buy from you if they know, like and trust you. And if we"},{"startTime":604.447,"endTime":609.3870000000001,"body":"look at teaching and working with kids, it's actually true too. You know, kids are gonna behave"},{"startTime":609.3870000000001,"endTime":615.37,"body":"better for, work harder for a teacher that they know, they like, and they trust. It's a basic"},{"startTime":615.376,"endTime":620.364,"body":"human need to be connected to others. We're pack animals. And so if you're aloof and you you"},{"startTime":620.364,"endTime":623.433,"body":"don't really want anything to do with these kids, your view is that they should just be taught"},{"startTime":623.433,"endTime":627.361,"body":"and they should sit down and quiet and just listen to you because you got all this knowledge"},{"startTime":627.361,"endTime":631.409,"body":"to impart and nothing else, then you're not gonna get the same results as a teacher who really"},{"startTime":631.409,"endTime":636.3770000000001,"body":"wants to get to know these kids, really values them as individuals, puts the relationship at"},{"startTime":636.3770000000001,"endTime":637.423,"body":"the forefront of the practice."},{"startTime":637.437,"endTime":644.355,"body":"And I guess if we all think back to a teacher who influenced us or, you know, inspired us from"},{"startTime":644.355,"endTime":650.363,"body":"the past. That's someone who took interest in us as an individual. There was a form of connection"},{"startTime":650.363,"endTime":653.412,"body":"there. It wasn't just business. We felt they cared about us in some way."},{"startTime":653.412,"endTime":658.368,"body":"Absolutely. Yeah. 100%. I mean, I can remember back to my favorite teachers at school. Well,"},{"startTime":658.368,"endTime":662.394,"body":"the only teachers I respected actually. I had a rough ride through the education system. I was"},{"startTime":662.394,"endTime":666.434,"body":"kicked out of school actually. The only teachers that I remember with any positive kind of memory"},{"startTime":666.434,"endTime":670.443,"body":"are those that I had a relationship with, you know, those that took that time to get to know"},{"startTime":670.443,"endTime":672.395,"body":"me and and, who I was."},{"startTime":672.395,"endTime":677.4390000000001,"body":"With all your experience now, if you could go back in time and speak through a time portal and"},{"startTime":677.4390000000001,"endTime":683.355,"body":"give a newly Rob Plevin a piece of advice about classroom management, what would it be?"},{"startTime":683.355,"endTime":689.3530000000001,"body":"It would absolutely be changing that attitude first. That to me is the is the fundamental strategy"},{"startTime":689.3530000000001,"endTime":695.3530000000001,"body":"if you like, but it's also a mindset shift. To move from this attitude of maybe you're tired"},{"startTime":695.3530000000001,"endTime":699.357,"body":"out, maybe you're burnt out, maybe you're just frustrated, or maybe you just see these kids"},{"startTime":699.357,"endTime":704.409,"body":"as, you know, problems, then switching that to an attitude of care and support is gonna make"},{"startTime":704.409,"endTime":708.397,"body":"all the difference. My mother had a a lovely saying. My late mother I should say had a lovely"},{"startTime":708.397,"endTime":712.397,"body":"saying. And it was, she used to say to me whenever I got wound up, whenever I was in a one of"},{"startTime":712.397,"endTime":717.383,"body":"those foul moods as you are as a as a teenager, she used to say to me, Robert, she taught like"},{"startTime":717.383,"endTime":723.3820000000001,"body":"that. Robert, life's like a teapot. You get out of it what you put in. If you put weak tea in,"},{"startTime":723.3820000000001,"endTime":728.434,"body":"you're gonna get weak tea out. It's all about your attitude. And it's so true. You get back"},{"startTime":728.434,"endTime":730.356,"body":"what you put in."},{"startTime":732.3720000000001,"endTime":736.388,"body":"And if you'd like to hear my whole conversation with Rob, and I definitely recommend you do,"},{"startTime":736.388,"endTime":741.443,"body":"all you need to do is click on the link at the bottom of the episode description to head directly"},{"startTime":741.4490000000001,"endTime":747.409,"body":"back to episode number 46. If you found today's episode helpful, do please take a moment to"},{"startTime":747.409,"endTime":752.357,"body":"rate and review as it takes just 30 seconds. And when you do, it makes a real difference to"},{"startTime":752.357,"endTime":757.445,"body":"us because it helps grow the show. Because when people subscribe or leave a rating, it tells"},{"startTime":757.445,"endTime":762.356,"body":"the algorithm gods to share School Behaviour Secrets with other listeners just like you and that"},{"startTime":762.356,"endTime":767.37,"body":"throws some good karma out there and gets this information to other teachers, school leaders,"},{"startTime":767.37,"endTime":771.426,"body":"and parents who need this information. Thanks for listening today, and I look forward to seeing"},{"startTime":771.426,"endTime":777.419,"body":"you next time for another educational adventure, yeah, I said it, on School Behaviour Secrets."}]}