{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":87.35799999999999,"endTime":92.41799999999999,"body":"In this quick fire episode, I'm going to share what the principles of a 14th century friar called"},{"startTime":92.41799999999999,"endTime":98.36399999999999,"body":"William of Ockham has to do with kids with their behaviour in modern day schools and how this"},{"startTime":98.36399999999999,"endTime":104.365,"body":"relates to reward charts, which I know we've been guilty of giving short shrift to in this podcast"},{"startTime":104.371,"endTime":109.441,"body":"in the past. This episode is all about knowing which strategy to use to support your students"},{"startTime":110.363,"endTime":116.36399999999999,"body":"and when to get the best results. Welcome to the School Behaviour Secrets podcast. I'm your"},{"startTime":116.36399999999999,"endTime":121.41199999999999,"body":"host, Simon Currigan. My co host is Emma Shackleton, and we're obsessed with helping teachers,"},{"startTime":121.42599999999999,"endTime":126.405,"body":"school leaders, parents, and, of course, students when classroom behaviour gets in the way of"},{"startTime":126.405,"endTime":130.44899999999998,"body":"success. We're gonna share the tried and tested secrets to classroom management, behavioural"},{"startTime":131.363,"endTime":136.382,"body":"special needs, whole school strategy, and more, all with the aim of helping your students reach"},{"startTime":136.382,"endTime":141.402,"body":"their true potential. Plus, we'll be letting you eavesdrop on our conversations with thought"},{"startTime":141.402,"endTime":147.368,"body":"leaders from around the world. So you'll get to hear the latest evidence based strategies before"},{"startTime":147.382,"endTime":153.433,"body":"anyone else. This is the School Behaviour Secrets podcast. Hi there. Simon Currigan here, and"},{"startTime":153.433,"endTime":159.402,"body":"welcome to this week's episode of School Behaviour Secrets. This week, I'm back with a quick"},{"startTime":159.41,"endTime":164.36599999999999,"body":"fire episode. And if you're off work at the moment, I'm hoping you're having a good Easter break,"},{"startTime":164.36599999999999,"endTime":168.358,"body":"you know, putting the efforts in because those chocolate eggs aren't gonna eat themselves. Anyway,"},{"startTime":168.43599999999998,"endTime":173.40800000000002,"body":"whatever your caloric intake, in these quick fire episodes, I'd like to give you one idea, insight,"},{"startTime":173.40800000000002,"endTime":179.435,"body":"or strategy that you can use to support the children that you work with in your school. But"},{"startTime":179.435,"endTime":184.351,"body":"before I get to that, if you've been listening to the podcast and you've been finding it useful"},{"startTime":184.351,"endTime":189.35399999999998,"body":"or helpful, don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends and colleagues about it and throw"},{"startTime":189.35399999999998,"endTime":194.425,"body":"some good karma back out into the world. Help us get this information out there to the teachers"},{"startTime":194.425,"endTime":198.449,"body":"and school leaders and parents who really need it. I really appreciate it, and I know they would"},{"startTime":198.449,"endTime":206.381,"body":"too. In this episode, I just wanted to share a quick defense of reward charts or happy face"},{"startTime":206.381,"endTime":211.36,"body":"charts or whatever you want to call them and explain why we don't refer to them much in the"},{"startTime":211.36,"endTime":216.42499999999998,"body":"podcast and to explain why I sometimes glibly dismiss them and do them a disservice maybe in"},{"startTime":216.42499999999998,"endTime":222.412,"body":"a way that they don't deserve, and I'd like to do that through the prism, through the lens of"},{"startTime":222.412,"endTime":230.436,"body":"Ockham's razor. So Ockham's razor is an idea, a way of looking at solving problems that goes back"},{"startTime":230.436,"endTime":237.41899999999998,"body":"to William of Ockham. He was a 14th century friar in the English county of Surrey, and his approach"},{"startTime":237.41899999999998,"endTime":245.374,"body":"is really easy to grasp. If you have 2 competing ideas that both explain the same problem or"},{"startTime":245.374,"endTime":252.364,"body":"phenomenon or the events that you're seeing, then you should always take the simplest explanation"},{"startTime":252.435,"endTime":257.409,"body":"and ignore the more complicated one. Or to look at it another way, if you've got 2 solutions"},{"startTime":258.355,"endTime":264.427,"body":"that both successfully address the same issue, go with the simplest and easiest. For those of"},{"startTime":264.427,"endTime":270.381,"body":"you that are interested, Ockham actually said, entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily."},{"startTime":271.41700000000003,"endTime":277.361,"body":"Again, basically, don't over complicate stuff when you don't need to. And it's called a razor"},{"startTime":277.361,"endTime":283.358,"body":"because when you're attempting to understand a problem, you should shave away anything that's"},{"startTime":283.358,"endTime":289.39300000000003,"body":"unnecessary, any facts or assumptions that don't help you make progress. Or as the Navy seals"},{"startTime":289.39300000000003,"endTime":295.395,"body":"would say, keep it simple, stupid. So what's this got to do with classroom behaviour and reward"},{"startTime":295.409,"endTime":301.36400000000003,"body":"charts? It's this. Let's imagine we have a student who's, let's say, 6 years old and keeps shouting"},{"startTime":301.36400000000003,"endTime":306.405,"body":"out during whole class time when the class are on the carpet. Let's call her Chantelle And this"},{"startTime":306.405,"endTime":311.37699999999995,"body":"behaviour is annoying to the other children because they can't get their point of view across"},{"startTime":311.37699999999995,"endTime":316.408,"body":"without being interrupted, and it's interfering with your ability as a teacher to communicate"},{"startTime":316.438,"endTime":323.406,"body":"information to the rest of your classes, slowing down carpet time. When we're thinking about"},{"startTime":323.406,"endTime":328.402,"body":"how to support Chantelle with her behaviour and help her join in with class discussions in a more"},{"startTime":328.402,"endTime":334.407,"body":"positive way that's fair to the rest of the class, then in the principle of Ockham's razor, we"},{"startTime":334.407,"endTime":343.352,"body":"should start with the basics. Chantelle may have an underlying need around understanding social"},{"startTime":343.376,"endTime":349.43399999999997,"body":"interaction, but equally, she may not. Kids aren't born into the world knowing how to socialize"},{"startTime":350.356,"endTime":354.43600000000004,"body":"and I'm gonna go off on a quick tangent here. There's actually this myth in modern society that"},{"startTime":354.43600000000004,"endTime":361.43100000000004,"body":"kids are born pure like angels, and it's the world that corrupts them. This is wrong. The most"},{"startTime":361.437,"endTime":368.438,"body":"violent group of people by some margin, by their demographics are not teenagers or men in their"},{"startTime":368.438,"endTime":375.35799999999995,"body":"twenties. It's the under fours. If a 2 year old isn't happy with you or upset with you, they'll"},{"startTime":375.35799999999995,"endTime":381.413,"body":"just wallop you or throw their toys around the room. And they're also extremely egocentric because"},{"startTime":381.413,"endTime":387.356,"body":"in order to get their needs met in evolutionary terms, they probably had to be. So they act"},{"startTime":387.356,"endTime":394.42600000000004,"body":"very selfishly. So it's the job of parents and teachers as the child grows to help them move"},{"startTime":394.42600000000004,"endTime":400.44399999999996,"body":"away from that, to manage their emotions, learn how to give way to other children, and share"},{"startTime":401.418,"endTime":408.448,"body":"share adult attention and socialize well. We need to do that work for society to work because"},{"startTime":409.379,"endTime":414.399,"body":"if adults behaviour the way 3 year olds did, it would be chaos out there. It would be like a"},{"startTime":414.399,"endTime":419.419,"body":"zombie apocalypse where we're all fighting each other to get the last loaf of bread in the supermarket."},{"startTime":420.413,"endTime":428.35,"body":"Okay then. So to bring it back to Chantelle, while she may have an underlying need about socialization,"},{"startTime":428.41200000000003,"endTime":435.40999999999997,"body":"equally, she might just need some support to engage in a polite way during whole class time"},{"startTime":435.40999999999997,"endTime":441.40200000000004,"body":"without dominating and cutting over the other children. And a reward chart might be enough on"},{"startTime":441.40200000000004,"endTime":447.36400000000003,"body":"its own to help her do that. So we say to Chantelle, if you can sit on the carpet for 10 minutes"},{"startTime":447.352,"endTime":453.37199999999996,"body":"without shouting out, you get a happy face sticker to positively reinforce this new behaviour."},{"startTime":453.394,"endTime":458.43600000000004,"body":"And we say, if you can build up enough happy faces, say 10, you'll get a certificate or some"},{"startTime":458.43600000000004,"endTime":465.352,"body":"time with a friend playing outside or whatever your currently favored form of kickback is. Then"},{"startTime":465.352,"endTime":471.429,"body":"if that's successful, over time, we fade out the reward chart because Chantelle has learned to"},{"startTime":471.429,"endTime":477.371,"body":"engage in that behaviour independently and automatically without the need for reinforcement,"},{"startTime":477.41700000000003,"endTime":483.419,"body":"and that's always preferable. And for Chantelle, that may be enough to help her change her behaviour."},{"startTime":483.44100000000003,"endTime":491.39700000000005,"body":"That works for her. We didn't actually need a more complex understanding of her need or more"},{"startTime":491.39700000000005,"endTime":498.35400000000004,"body":"complex strategies in order for her to make progress. The happy face chart was enough, and that"},{"startTime":498.355,"endTime":506.413,"body":"is absolutely fine. Applying a simple strategy in the early days when a child is presenting"},{"startTime":507.36699999999996,"endTime":512.444,"body":"some difficult or challenging behaviour, that's absolutely the right thing to do. And that's"},{"startTime":513.35,"endTime":518.374,"body":"especially true in a world where resources are scarce. And by resources, see, remember, I don't"},{"startTime":518.374,"endTime":524.4399999999999,"body":"just mean money and things in the classroom. I'm including the time of the teaching staff because"},{"startTime":525.379,"endTime":531.3629999999999,"body":"with 1 or 2 adults in the room, there's always going to be competing pressures on the adult's"},{"startTime":531.3629999999999,"endTime":536.4159999999999,"body":"time. In the podcast and when we do our work in schools with real teachers and real kids and"},{"startTime":536.4159999999999,"endTime":544.378,"body":"real parents, when we're talking about children's underlying needs and digging into the complexity"},{"startTime":544.409,"endTime":551.441,"body":"of what's driving their behaviour, We're kind of baking in the assumption that the easy, simple"},{"startTime":551.441,"endTime":555.361,"body":"stuff has been done, and the adults have done that well and consistently for enough time to"},{"startTime":555.361,"endTime":571.447,"body":"prove already to stop Chantelle shouting out. And so now we need to explore alternative explanations"},{"startTime":571.447,"endTime":579.356,"body":"and strategies. Now we need to think deeper about how we help Chantelle make progress. So this"},{"startTime":579.356,"endTime":584.424,"body":"episode really is in defense of happy face charts. And if you're a teacher or a parent listening"},{"startTime":584.424,"endTime":589.42,"body":"to this and you're working with or living with a child whose behaviour is in some form of barrier"},{"startTime":589.42,"endTime":595.446,"body":"to their success, then absolutely, please start with a simple reward chart. Ockham was right."},{"startTime":596.376,"endTime":602.4060000000001,"body":"You might not need a complex approach, and a straightforward one will get you the results that"},{"startTime":602.4060000000001,"endTime":608.374,"body":"you're looking for. But if they don't, then we need to dig deeper and look at how we support"},{"startTime":608.374,"endTime":614.41,"body":"that child in a more thoughtful needs led fashion. Hope you found the episode useful, maybe"},{"startTime":614.41,"endTime":618.445,"body":"even a relief, and that's everything I've got for you today. If you're on your holidays for"},{"startTime":618.445,"endTime":624.426,"body":"Easter, do enjoy them. But even if you're not, I hope you have a great week. I can't wait to"},{"startTime":624.426,"endTime":627.385,"body":"see you next time on School Behaviour Secrets."}]}