{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":87.35799999999999,"endTime":91.35,"body":"If you're working with students who present attention seeking behaviours in the classroom or"},{"startTime":91.35,"endTime":96.423,"body":"indeed you're a parent and you're seeing that pattern of behaviour at home, this episode is perfect"},{"startTime":96.429,"endTime":101.401,"body":"for you. We'll look at why the term attention seeking might be unhelpful both for the child"},{"startTime":101.401,"endTime":107.41399999999999,"body":"and the adult and 3 different ways of thinking about their behaviour that can help us find useful"},{"startTime":107.357,"endTime":112.386,"body":"insights and strategies to support them. That's all coming up on today's School Behaviour Secrets."},{"startTime":113.354,"endTime":118.40599999999999,"body":"Welcome to the school behaviour secrets podcast. I'm your host, Simon Currigan. My co host is"},{"startTime":118.40599999999999,"endTime":123.417,"body":"Emma Shackleton, and we're obsessed with helping teachers, school leaders, parents, and, of"},{"startTime":123.417,"endTime":128.413,"body":"course, students when classroom behaviour gets in the way of success. We're gonna share the tried"},{"startTime":128.413,"endTime":133.38799999999998,"body":"and tested secrets to classroom management, behavioural special needs, whole school strategy,"},{"startTime":133.38799999999998,"endTime":138.416,"body":"and more, all with the aim of helping your students reach their true potential. Plus, we'll"},{"startTime":138.416,"endTime":144.362,"body":"be letting you eavesdrop on our conversations with thought leaders from around the world, so"},{"startTime":144.362,"endTime":149.446,"body":"you'll get to hear the latest evidence based strategies before anyone else. This is the School"},{"startTime":149.446,"endTime":155.35,"body":"Behavior Secrets podcast. Hi there. Simon Currigan here, and welcome to this week's episode"},{"startTime":155.35,"endTime":160.415,"body":"of School Behaviour Secrets. This week, I'm releasing a quick fire episode because where we live"},{"startTime":160.415,"endTime":165.44299999999998,"body":"in the UK, it's currently the Easter holidays. That said, the Easter holidays in the UK are"},{"startTime":165.44299999999998,"endTime":170.43599999999998,"body":"a bit of a dog's breakfast at the moment all over the place. And it's amazing that the local"},{"startTime":170.43599999999998,"endTime":177.415,"body":"authorities in such a small country couldn't agree when Easter actually was. Anyway, in these"},{"startTime":177.415,"endTime":183.38299999999998,"body":"quick fire episodes, I'd like to give you one idea, insight, or strategy away from the main"},{"startTime":183.38299999999998,"endTime":188.439,"body":"podcast that can be useful for improving behaviour or supporting children with social, emotional,"},{"startTime":188.439,"endTime":193.393,"body":"and mental health needs in your school. And if you've been listening to the podcast and finding"},{"startTime":193.393,"endTime":198.381,"body":"it useful, don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends or colleagues about it. Throw some"},{"startTime":198.381,"endTime":204.37099999999998,"body":"good karma out there back into the world and help us get this information to teachers, school"},{"startTime":204.37099999999998,"endTime":209.447,"body":"leaders, and parents who really need it. I'd really appreciate your support. In this episode,"},{"startTime":210.385,"endTime":218.355,"body":"I wanted to explore the idea of attention seeking behaviour and why thinking about behaviour as"},{"startTime":218.355,"endTime":223.441,"body":"being attention seeking might not actually be that helpful either for the student or the adult."},{"startTime":224.398,"endTime":229.37,"body":"I remember reading about an old study once back from the fifties, maybe. I'm sorry. I tried"},{"startTime":229.37,"endTime":234.375,"body":"to track down the exact name, date, and author for this podcast, but I couldn't locate it. But"},{"startTime":234.375,"endTime":240.391,"body":"it was a very simple experiment. A teacher had 3 children in his class that he described as"},{"startTime":240.391,"endTime":246.384,"body":"having very difficult challenging behaviour, particularly during work tasks. The researchers"},{"startTime":246.384,"endTime":250.44,"body":"told him after you've set the class to their task, we want you to spend a minute with child"},{"startTime":250.44,"endTime":257.41999999999996,"body":"1, then move to child 2 for a minute, then move to child 3 for a minute, then look after the"},{"startTime":257.41999999999996,"endTime":263.354,"body":"rest of the class for a minute before returning to child 1 and so on and so forth. And what"},{"startTime":263.354,"endTime":270.36699999999996,"body":"they found was by constantly rotating around those children, the amount of difficult behaviour"},{"startTime":270.36699999999996,"endTime":274.431,"body":"they saw in class from those 3 students, the shouting out, challenging the teacher, talking"},{"startTime":274.431,"endTime":281.397,"body":"across the room, that kind of thing, significantly declined. It almost disappeared. The researchers"},{"startTime":281.419,"endTime":289.385,"body":"noted that when the adult gave the children attention, it kind of solved the problem of the"},{"startTime":289.385,"endTime":295.446,"body":"disruptive behaviour. The problem with this is we could label a behaviour, and I say label the"},{"startTime":295.446,"endTime":301.446,"body":"behaviour here rather than the child, as attention seeking. And then we could feed it attention"},{"startTime":301.446,"endTime":307.385,"body":"all day long assuming we have the adults, but that never really gets to the upstream problem"},{"startTime":307.385,"endTime":313.402,"body":"of what's causing that attention seeking behaviour in the first place. Because when you use the"},{"startTime":313.402,"endTime":319.43399999999997,"body":"label of attention seeking, you kind of hit this cognitive psychological concrete wall. Why"},{"startTime":319.43399999999997,"endTime":325.376,"body":"does the student keep calling out? They're attention seeking or the behaviour is attention seeking."},{"startTime":325.398,"endTime":330.43600000000004,"body":"It feels like we've hit the final explanation, and the explanation focuses on a character weakness."},{"startTime":331.41499999999996,"endTime":341.408,"body":"The next step from this is to relabel the behaviour attention needing or connection seeking behaviour."},{"startTime":341.408,"endTime":347.352,"body":"Both of these indicate that for some reason, the child requires more attention or connection"},{"startTime":347.352,"endTime":354.405,"body":"with the adults. But, again, for me, this relabeling hits another brick wall. Other than feeding"},{"startTime":354.405,"endTime":359.41700000000003,"body":"that behaviour with more attention or connection or however you see it, it doesn't give us a"},{"startTime":359.41700000000003,"endTime":366.35,"body":"path towards success. We're not addressing what's causing the need. So if you're working with"},{"startTime":366.35,"endTime":371.36199999999997,"body":"children who engage in attention seeking, attention needing, connection seeking, call it whatever"},{"startTime":371.36199999999997,"endTime":378.419,"body":"you will. Here are 3 frames that I found helpful. The first is to look at a child's actions"},{"startTime":378.419,"endTime":383.44500000000005,"body":"and see if they're consistent with the ambivalent attachment style, or as I prefer to think"},{"startTime":383.44500000000005,"endTime":389.43600000000004,"body":"of it, the anxious attachment style. Here, because of the pattern of their early experiences,"},{"startTime":390.374,"endTime":396.42600000000004,"body":"the child wants a connection with the adults. But equally, they've learned to be wary of adults"},{"startTime":396.42600000000004,"endTime":401.39700000000005,"body":"because of their past experiences. They've learned that adults can be unpredictable. Sometimes"},{"startTime":401.39700000000005,"endTime":408.37199999999996,"body":"they can be caring. Sometimes they can be mean. So what you can sometimes find is the child"},{"startTime":408.37199999999996,"endTime":413.41599999999994,"body":"needs help with the task, say, that means they need the adult, but they don't know whether they"},{"startTime":413.41599999999994,"endTime":420.355,"body":"can trust the adult. So they engage in some attention seeking behaviour, which attracts the"},{"startTime":420.355,"endTime":425.394,"body":"adult over to support them with the work. But then when the adult comes, the child pushes them"},{"startTime":425.394,"endTime":431.352,"body":"away again because they don't know if the adult is safe, if they can be trusted, and they get"},{"startTime":431.352,"endTime":437.38599999999997,"body":"caught in this push pull push pull needing connection, but not feeling safe with that connection."},{"startTime":437.424,"endTime":443.376,"body":"Of course, they don't realize this in a conscious logical way. They're just running on emotions."},{"startTime":443.38199999999995,"endTime":449.37699999999995,"body":"So that's the first frame that I often use to look at attention seeking behaviour. The second"},{"startTime":449.399,"endTime":457.37800000000004,"body":"question I ask myself is, has the child developed the idea that they can be held in mind? Being"},{"startTime":457.37800000000004,"endTime":464.356,"body":"held in mind is a powerful concept which gives you psychological safeties. It's where it feels"},{"startTime":464.37,"endTime":471.384,"body":"like there's an invisible thread that connects the child to an adult caregiver. When you understand"},{"startTime":471.40599999999995,"endTime":477.43499999999995,"body":"that your mom or your dad or your carer can hold you in mind, it means that the adult can still"},{"startTime":477.43499999999995,"endTime":484.39099999999996,"body":"be thinking about you and there to protect you even if they're not physically there with you."},{"startTime":484.41200000000003,"endTime":490.40599999999995,"body":"So for an example, if my son's not feeling a 100% this morning and I still send him to school,"},{"startTime":490.42600000000004,"endTime":495.39199999999994,"body":"And I'll say, I tell you what. I'll text you at lunch to check-in and see how things are going."},{"startTime":495.40599999999995,"endTime":502.35699999999997,"body":"He can appreciate that even though I'm miles away, I can still be holding him in mind and looking"},{"startTime":502.35699999999997,"endTime":508.35400000000004,"body":"after his welfare. Some kids don't develop this for all sorts of reasons. So we send them out"},{"startTime":508.35400000000004,"endTime":514.388,"body":"into the world to school, and they feel like, essentially, they're on their own. They're responsible"},{"startTime":514.394,"endTime":520.354,"body":"for their own safety and their own well-being and protection, but they don't have the capacity"},{"startTime":520.404,"endTime":527.373,"body":"and skills to deliver that, to be independent because, you know, they're kids. So they're in"},{"startTime":527.373,"endTime":532.425,"body":"the classroom feeling anxious and worried, feeling like no one's taking care of them, looking"},{"startTime":532.425,"endTime":538.412,"body":"out for them. There's no invisible thread between them and their parents or another adult in"},{"startTime":538.412,"endTime":544.381,"body":"the room or their teacher. So they engage in some behaviour that attracts an adult to come and"},{"startTime":544.381,"endTime":550.405,"body":"be physically with them. Because when the adult is alongside them, it helps them feel safe for"},{"startTime":550.405,"endTime":557.356,"body":"a while, and the anxiety subsides. But then when the adult naturally moves on to help another"},{"startTime":557.356,"endTime":563.381,"body":"child, those feelings of anxiety start to rise again because if the adult's not right next to"},{"startTime":563.381,"endTime":568.387,"body":"me, how can they be looking after me? Right? You have no concept that the adult can still be"},{"startTime":568.387,"endTime":574.36,"body":"holding you in mind, and so you engage in more behaviour to bring the adult back. Again, this"},{"startTime":574.36,"endTime":580.3919999999999,"body":"isn't conscious planned behaviour. This is running on emotion. The 3rd useful frame I use is"},{"startTime":580.3919999999999,"endTime":587.413,"body":"that of lack of resilience. The idea that I'm not able to cope emotionally if I get this work"},{"startTime":587.413,"endTime":593.399,"body":"wrong, and that might be because of a general lack of an emotional resilience or lack of self"},{"startTime":593.399,"endTime":601.354,"body":"esteem or because you identify getting something wrong with your individual character. Here's"},{"startTime":601.354,"endTime":607.369,"body":"an example of what I mean by that. For instance, if you experience toxic shame, that means you've"},{"startTime":607.369,"endTime":613.3670000000001,"body":"developed the negative belief that you are bad and unlovable because of your early childhood"},{"startTime":613.3670000000001,"endTime":620.4250000000001,"body":"experiences. And that means that when you make mistakes with your work, those aren't just mistakes."},{"startTime":621.394,"endTime":628.364,"body":"That's yet more proof that you're bad and unlovable. So if the work looks a bit hard, it's better"},{"startTime":628.364,"endTime":634.4060000000001,"body":"not to take the chance to feel those emotions. I'll avoid the work or just do the bits I'm 100%"},{"startTime":634.428,"endTime":640.352,"body":"sure I know I'm capable of doing, and then I'll get an adult to help me through the rest. And"},{"startTime":640.352,"endTime":644.385,"body":"to do that, I'll need their attention. And what's the quickest way in my experience to get the"},{"startTime":644.385,"endTime":650.446,"body":"adult's attention? Well, likely, it's not sitting quietly and waiting politely. Now, obviously,"},{"startTime":651.408,"endTime":656.414,"body":"there are more than just these three reasons why a child might engage in attention seeking behaviour."},{"startTime":657.351,"endTime":663.445,"body":"But when you approach their behaviour like this, you can see that it gives you way more options."},{"startTime":663.445,"endTime":670.405,"body":"It's a deeper way of thinking about it. It gives you a way into addressing the upstream problem,"},{"startTime":670.405,"endTime":675.409,"body":"the thing that's causing the behaviour rather than the symptom itself, the behaviour that you're"},{"startTime":675.409,"endTime":681.402,"body":"seeing in the classroom. And in truth, the 3 frames I've shared here, anxious attention, being"},{"startTime":681.402,"endTime":687.443,"body":"held in mind, shame or low self esteem, it's amazing how far these will get you in most classrooms"},{"startTime":688.381,"endTime":693.4300000000001,"body":"in terms of addressing attention seeking, attention needing, connection seeking behaviour, whatever"},{"startTime":694.352,"endTime":698.432,"body":"you want to label it. And that's all I've got for you today. Next week, it's still the Easter"},{"startTime":698.432,"endTime":703.434,"body":"holiday, so I'll be back with another quick fire episode. Where I'll be sharing one more strategy"},{"startTime":703.434,"endTime":708.3580000000001,"body":"or insight to help you support the kids in your class. Until then, I hope you have a brilliant"},{"startTime":708.3580000000001,"endTime":714.438,"body":"week, especially if you're off work, and I look forward to seeing you next time on School Behaviour Secrets."}]}