{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":87.749,"endTime":93.42999999999999,"body":"Supporting kids who feel anxious about an element of their home life or school, and that out"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":93.42999999999999,"endTime":98.835,"body":"of control worry is limiting their potential or the choices they'd like to make, resulting in"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":98.835,"endTime":104.35499999999999,"body":"high emotions, challenging behaviour, or even sadness and disconnection, then you're in the right"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":104.35499999999999,"endTime":110.33,"body":"place, whether you're a teacher, school leader, or parent, because today, we're going to explore"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":110.389,"endTime":116.535,"body":"why kids find it hard to escape anxiety and what you can do to support them."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":117.55499999999999,"endTime":120.45499999999998,"body":"Welcome to the School Behaviour Secrets podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":120.675,"endTime":122.24,"body":"I'm your host, Simon Currigan."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":122.3,"endTime":127.82,"body":"My co host is Emma Shackleton, and we're obsessed with helping teachers, school leaders, parents,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":127.82,"endTime":131.935,"body":"and, of course, students when class room behavior gets in the way of success."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":132.075,"endTime":136.88,"body":"We're gonna share the tried and tested secrets to classroom management, behavioural special needs,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":136.88,"endTime":142.26,"body":"whole school strategy, and more, all with the aim of helping your students reach their true potential."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":142.639,"endTime":148.365,"body":"Plus, we'll be letting you eavesdrop on our conversations with thought leaders from around the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":148.42399999999998,"endTime":153.08499999999998,"body":"So you'll get to hear the latest evidence based strategies before anyone else."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":153.14499999999998,"endTime":157.61,"body":"This is the School Behaviour Secrets podcast. Hi there."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":157.61,"endTime":161.39,"body":"My name is Simon Currigan, and welcome to this week's episode of school behaviour secrets."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":161.69,"endTime":166.625,"body":"This week, I've been wondering about what's going on with the pronunciation of place names,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":166.625,"endTime":170.885,"body":"like Great Yarmouth or Bournemouth or Sidmouth."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":171.105,"endTime":175.07999999999998,"body":"They all clearly end in the word mouth, not muth. So what's happened there?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":175.07999999999998,"endTime":178.86,"body":"Why pronounce mouth like they've got a mouth or muthful of bread?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":179.16,"endTime":180.78,"body":"Don't get me started on the counties."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":181.045,"endTime":185.925,"body":"I don't agree with everything the Americans have done with the English language, but at least"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":185.925,"endTime":190.83999999999997,"body":"they have the courage to say Shire when they see it. Bedfordshire or Bedfordshire."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":191.38,"endTime":193.95999999999998,"body":"I think you'll find the former is just phonetically implausible."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":194.42,"endTime":201.865,"body":"And Warwickshire, Warwickshire, I'm singling you out here for being a try hard at postmodern individualism."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":202.325,"endTime":205.385,"body":"You know your name should be pronounced Warwickshire, not Warwickshire."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":205.605,"endTime":209.11,"body":"Now go stand in the corner, and you can wear the class show off hat for good measure."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":209.11,"endTime":211.82999999999998,"body":"You'll be in detention with Wednesday and the word segway."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":211.82999999999998,"endTime":216.89,"body":"And now that's place they've sorted out, I'd like to welcome my cohost to the show, Emma Shackleton. Hi, Emma."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":217.095,"endTime":217.915,"body":"Hi, Simon."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":218.215,"endTime":219.335,"body":"Start with a quick question?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":219.335,"endTime":222.295,"body":"I think we should. We've got over 200 episodes now."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":222.295,"endTime":226.635,"body":"And if we didn't start with a question, the universe might implode or something."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":227.07999999999998,"endTime":236.29999999999998,"body":"Brilliant. According to a 1997 study by MORI sampling 1,000 adults, what did 43% of respondents"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":236.44,"endTime":238.524,"body":"say they were putting off?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":238.82399999999998,"endTime":242.684,"body":"1997. Recent research then?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":243.384,"endTime":247.13,"body":"People might be putting off new things. You know?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":247.13,"endTime":251.15,"body":"Social media didn't feature highly. No. Buying an Internet modem?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":251.21,"endTime":254.35399999999998,"body":"Updating a MySpace account. Alright."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":254.35399999999998,"endTime":256.994,"body":"Let's imagine it's recent then, putting off?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":256.994,"endTime":263.49,"body":"I think people tend to put off boring but sometimes important things, like putting off going"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":263.49,"endTime":272.225,"body":"to the doctors or getting their car serviced or maybe putting off a phone call or a meet up with somebody. I don't know."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":272.225,"endTime":277.92499999999995,"body":"What were 43% of respondents putting off in 1997, Simon?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":278.384,"endTime":280.95,"body":"Right. I think the answer probably may still hold."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":281.03,"endTime":285.90999999999997,"body":"The survey said putting off making a will. Ah, yes."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":285.90999999999997,"endTime":289.59000000000003,"body":"You're on the right lines with the others. 38% of people said they were putting off visiting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":289.59000000000003,"endTime":295.845,"body":"a dentist. 35% going on a diet, 34% were putting off decorating, which seems weirdly specific,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":296.225,"endTime":299.365,"body":"34% were putting off starting an exercise program."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":299.53,"endTime":301.04999999999995,"body":"I can empathize with that."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":301.04999999999995,"endTime":303.63,"body":"So, yeah, that's what people were putting off in 1997."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":304.57,"endTime":307.87,"body":"Okay. We haven't evolved that much then, have we, since then?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":308.975,"endTime":309.875,"body":"Don't think we have."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":310.015,"endTime":312.755,"body":"No. And how is that linked to today's episode?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":313.135,"endTime":318.595,"body":"So today, we're exploring anxiety and why children get trapped in negative cycles of anxiety,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":318.7,"endTime":320.96000000000004,"body":"and they can't find their way out."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":321.5,"endTime":328.56,"body":"And anxiety often involves the act of putting off an event that you find uncomfortable, unnerving, or scary."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":328.765,"endTime":333.805,"body":"That makes sense. But just before we jump into the episode, how would you fancy paying it forward"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":333.805,"endTime":335.42499999999995,"body":"with a small good deed?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":336.03,"endTime":338.53,"body":"We really rely on word-of-mouth recommendations."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":339.07,"endTime":344.025,"body":"So if you're finding the School Behaviour Secrets podcast interesting and useful useful and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":344.025,"endTime":350.725,"body":"you know somebody else who might like it too, do them a favor by opening your podcast app and clicking the share button."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":350.86400000000003,"endTime":356.23,"body":"And, of course, while you've got your app open, please make sure you also subscribe so you never miss another episode."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":356.45000000000005,"endTime":361.03,"body":"And one last thing before we get into the information and strategies you need about anxiety,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":361.475,"endTime":367.235,"body":"we've got another really helpful free download that could help your students or even your own"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":367.235,"endTime":370.05499999999995,"body":"children if you're a parent listening to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":370.61,"endTime":375.66999999999996,"body":"It's called how to help children manage anger and other strong emotions."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":376.13,"endTime":381.265,"body":"Of course, anxiety is another strong emotion, and the guide gives you an approach to helping"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":381.265,"endTime":385.365,"body":"your student understand, recognize, and manage strong emotions successfully."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":385.505,"endTime":390.65,"body":"It shares a method that's evidence based, walks you through how to use that approach step by"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":390.65,"endTime":395.30999999999995,"body":"step, and even comes with some principles to support your work."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":395.69500000000005,"endTime":397.55499999999995,"body":"Oh, and what is that approach?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":398.095,"endTime":401.71500000000003,"body":"Well, you'll have to download the guide to find out."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":401.855,"endTime":404.19500000000005,"body":"Oh, cliffhanger. I like it."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":404.60900000000004,"endTime":410.37,"body":"So, dear listeners, if you want to join the fabulous company of thousands of your educator peers"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":410.37,"endTime":415.53499999999997,"body":"who've already downloaded our free resources, go and get your free copy today."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":415.91499999999996,"endTime":421.09000000000003,"body":"I'll put a link in the episode description, and all you've got to do is open your podcast app,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":421.32899999999995,"endTime":423.98900000000003,"body":"check the description, and tap on the link."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":424.21000000000004,"endTime":426.68999999999994,"body":"If you haven't done that already, do it today."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":426.68999999999994,"endTime":433.41499999999996,"body":"Or even better, if it's safe and you're not driving, get your phone out now and get that job ticked off your list."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":433.635,"endTime":440.85900000000004,"body":"Perfect. Right. So all we have to do now is take a deep breath, talc our legs, flatten our stomachs,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":440.85900000000004,"endTime":444.23900000000003,"body":"and pull up the tight leather trousers we call behaviour."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":444.38,"endTime":445.98,"body":"So it made sense when I wrote it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":445.98,"endTime":453.95399999999995,"body":"So so I wanna make clear from the start that in this episode, we are talking about mild to moderate anxiety."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":453.95399999999995,"endTime":458.43999999999994,"body":"And if you're working with a student or you're a parent and you're thinking about your own child"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":458.43999999999994,"endTime":464.12,"body":"and they are having significant anxiety, what you should always do, your first port of call"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":464.12,"endTime":466.43499999999995,"body":"is always going to be a medical professional."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":466.57500000000005,"endTime":470.41499999999996,"body":"So should we kick off by talking about what anxiety actually is?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":470.41499999999996,"endTime":471.395,"body":"Yeah. Good idea."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":471.775,"endTime":475.32000000000005,"body":"So an anxiety is you can think of it like a worry."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":475.46000000000004,"endTime":480.31499999999994,"body":"Worries are perfectly natural, and all children have worries that come and go in life, but an"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":480.31499999999994,"endTime":483.135,"body":"anxiety is kinda like a worry that's escalated."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":483.755,"endTime":493.53999999999996,"body":"It snowballed out of control, and it's influencing the kind of choices that the child would like to make. It's limiting their life."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":493.53999999999996,"endTime":498.9,"body":"They might want to go to a football club, but they might have an anxiety about being hurt."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":498.9,"endTime":501.70500000000004,"body":"So they don't go or they're resistant to going."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":501.70500000000004,"endTime":504.58500000000004,"body":"So it's limiting their life somehow."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":504.58500000000004,"endTime":508.365,"body":"And what's interesting about anxiety is it's a lie."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":508.62,"endTime":514.539,"body":"Your body's reacting as if a fearful, scary fight or flight event is happening right now in"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":514.539,"endTime":519.014,"body":"the moment, but anxiety is always future based."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":519.014,"endTime":525.014,"body":"It's your brain projecting into the future and thinking about something happening that you might"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":525.014,"endTime":529.35,"body":"find scary or you're worried you're going to be hurt or you're going to die or someone that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":529.35,"endTime":532.33,"body":"you care about is going to be hurt in a in a way that's irreversible."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":532.95,"endTime":536.095,"body":"So your brain is thinking about future events."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":536.095,"endTime":541.454,"body":"It's not thinking about what's happening now, but what happens is your body then reacts to that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":541.454,"endTime":544.13,"body":"future event as if it's happening in the moment."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":544.13,"endTime":548.29,"body":"So if you are worried about being stung by a bee and you have an anxiety about that and you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":548.29,"endTime":552.035,"body":"in your bedroom and you're thinking about going out and playing with your friends or perhaps"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":552.035,"endTime":556.275,"body":"your mom or dad's told you to go out and play with your friends, get some fresh air, then your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":556.275,"endTime":560.775,"body":"body starts to react as if there is a bee on your body stinging you right now."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":561.16,"endTime":562.76,"body":"But your body is perfectly safe."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":562.76,"endTime":564.46,"body":"In the moment, you are perfectly safe."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":564.52,"endTime":571.114,"body":"So anxiety is an out of control worry that limits the choices you'd like to make, but it's also always future based."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":571.114,"endTime":577.835,"body":"And the thing is with anxiety is that one of the elements of anxiety growing is we've got a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":577.835,"endTime":588.445,"body":"natural tendency to underestimate our ability to cope with the stressful event and the likelihood of that event happening."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":588.585,"endTime":593.245,"body":"So Simon's alluded to somebody being anxious about being stung by a bee."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":593.549,"endTime":602.1650000000001,"body":"What we tend to think is if we are anxious about being stung by a bee, we believe that if we"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":602.1650000000001,"endTime":605.385,"body":"get stung by a bee, it's gonna be the end of the world."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":605.845,"endTime":611.239,"body":"It's gonna be a huge, huge event, and there's absolutely no way that we're gonna cope with that."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":611.239,"endTime":616.5400000000001,"body":"We tend to overdramatize, over catastrophize what might happen."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":616.6,"endTime":617.72,"body":"And don't get me wrong."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":617.72,"endTime":623.705,"body":"Sometimes a very small number of people do get stung by bees, and a very, very small proportion"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":623.705,"endTime":630.125,"body":"of those people do have life threatening consequences if they are allergic to bee stings, for example."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":630.73,"endTime":635.87,"body":"But in the main, most people in their daily lives don't get stung by bees."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":636.33,"endTime":642.4250000000001,"body":"And if they do, it's an unpleasant experience that they are then able to recover from."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":642.8050000000001,"endTime":649.63,"body":"But when we've got an anxiety about a situation, our perspective is all skew wiff, and we don't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":649.63,"endTime":655.57,"body":"feel like we're going to be able to survive that incident or we're going to be able to cope with that incident."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":656.075,"endTime":659.775,"body":"And we also magnify the chances of that happening."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":660.235,"endTime":666.41,"body":"So we are fairly certain that each time we go outside on a sunny day, there's going to be a"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":666.41,"endTime":668.429,"body":"bee and it's going to sting us."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":668.729,"endTime":676.035,"body":"When logically, in reality, what we actually know is a very small number of bee stings happen to people."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":676.335,"endTime":681.0550000000001,"body":"And there are many, many, many, many more occasions where we do go outside and we don't get"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":681.0550000000001,"endTime":684.45,"body":"stung by a bee than the very few times when we do."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":684.45,"endTime":690.725,"body":"So we underestimate our ability to cope, and we overestimate the likelihood that that scary"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":690.725,"endTime":692.4250000000001,"body":"thing is going to happen."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":693.125,"endTime":695.705,"body":"And we also overestimate the consequences."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":696.405,"endTime":697.865,"body":"So we tend to catastrophise."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":698.405,"endTime":703.71,"body":"We imagine we're gonna get stung by a bee, then we're gonna go into epileptic shock, maybe we're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":703.71,"endTime":708.355,"body":"gonna die, maybe we're never gonna recover from that bee sting, Everyone's gonna look at us."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":708.355,"endTime":709.8140000000001,"body":"It's gonna be really embarrassing."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":710.275,"endTime":711.8140000000001,"body":"The world's gonna stop turning."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":712.035,"endTime":716.39,"body":"To give an an adult example as well or, actually, you can see this from the perspective of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":716.39,"endTime":719.27,"body":"a student in class being asked to put up their hand and give an answer."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":719.27,"endTime":722.2950000000001,"body":"Public speaking is a common anxiety that people have."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":722.2950000000001,"endTime":726.455,"body":"And to look at those categories, you know, we underestimate if you have that anxiety."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":726.455,"endTime":730.475,"body":"You might underestimate your ability to cope and do well in a public situation."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":730.99,"endTime":735.07,"body":"You might fear people laughing at you and see that in your head as a certainty."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":735.07,"endTime":738.575,"body":"People will definitely laugh at you if you stand up and speak in public."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":739.054,"endTime":743.695,"body":"Or if they did laugh at you, you know, what are the consequences of that happening? Probably nothing."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":743.695,"endTime":747.294,"body":"You know, if people you did stand up and speak in public and the other adults laughed or the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":747.294,"endTime":749.7,"body":"children in the class laughed, then that's it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":749.7,"endTime":751.22,"body":"That's probably done and dusted."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":751.22,"endTime":752.98,"body":"It was a 5 second consequence."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":752.98,"endTime":756.475,"body":"It's not something that's gonna be with you for the rest of your life and follow you around."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":757.275,"endTime":760.075,"body":"So what do people do when they have these anxieties?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":760.075,"endTime":767.2900000000001,"body":"Well, often, what you'll find is children and adults then get stuck in a vicious cycle of avoidance behaviors."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":767.59,"endTime":770.39,"body":"So we have someone with an unhelpful belief."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":770.39,"endTime":771.27,"body":"So we've got this child."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":771.27,"endTime":775.124,"body":"Let's stick with the example of a child who's concerned about being stung by a bee."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":775.124,"endTime":778.004,"body":"Let's just assume here that they're not gonna go into anaphylactic shock."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":778.004,"endTime":779.465,"body":"They just have a fear of bees."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":779.684,"endTime":784.74,"body":"So they have this belief that if the bee stings them, if they go outside, a bee's gonna sting them."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":784.74,"endTime":786.34,"body":"It's incredibly likely to happen."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":786.34,"endTime":790.36,"body":"It's going to lead to a catastrophic medical incident or death or whatever afterwards."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":790.875,"endTime":794.015,"body":"So then they're put in a situation where they might have to go outside."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":794.235,"endTime":800.71,"body":"What then happens is, normally, if we're in a dangerous situation, our body starts to amp up"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":800.71,"endTime":802.39,"body":"for the fight flight freeze response."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":802.39,"endTime":804.47,"body":"So your heart might start beating more quickly."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":804.47,"endTime":807.03,"body":"You might start breathing more quickly. Your muscles might tense."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":807.03,"endTime":808.65,"body":"You might feel hot and so on."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":809.335,"endTime":816.075,"body":"Because your body is preparing to respond to a real life, life or death threat."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":816.499,"endTime":820.359,"body":"Well, what's happening here is that's really interesting is you're getting what's called psychosomatic"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":820.739,"endTime":823.32,"body":"symptoms, which is you are not in that situation."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":823.905,"endTime":828.565,"body":"There is not a tiger or a mugger or something dangerous in front of you."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":828.705,"endTime":832.89,"body":"You are simply having thoughts about something dangerous."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":832.89,"endTime":837.629,"body":"Your brain, again, is predicting into the future about what might happen, and then your brain"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":837.85,"endTime":840.885,"body":"responds to those thoughts as if they're happening now."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":840.885,"endTime":846.484,"body":"And what's really interesting is when someone gets those emotions and physical sensations, that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":846.484,"endTime":851.7,"body":"then confirms to them at a biological level that they are right to have that fear about being"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":851.7,"endTime":856.2,"body":"stung by a bee even though there isn't a bee in sight. So what happens next?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":856.4250000000001,"endTime":861.705,"body":"They then seek to avoid being in the situation that they're in or they believe they're about to be in."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":861.705,"endTime":866.0450000000001,"body":"So they might run indoors and refuse to go out or they might refuse to go out in the first place."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":866.12,"endTime":868.38,"body":"And what does that avoidance behaviour do?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":868.6800000000001,"endTime":872.0400000000001,"body":"Again, it confirms that they were right to have that belief."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":872.0400000000001,"endTime":877.825,"body":"Actually, that avoidance strengthens the belief that they're going to get stung."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":877.885,"endTime":882.0450000000001,"body":"Those avoidance behaviours increase the strength of the vicious cycle."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":882.0450000000001,"endTime":888.61,"body":"So each time the child goes around this vicious cycle, it compounds, and it gets stronger and stronger."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":888.83,"endTime":892.59,"body":"And often, interestingly, if a child's, let's say, been asked to do something maybe they've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":892.59,"endTime":896.325,"body":"been asked to stand up and do a a presentation for their work in class, and they're worried"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":896.325,"endTime":898.885,"body":"about what the other children think and then they refuse to do it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":898.885,"endTime":902.985,"body":"And then the teacher might say, well, if you don't do it, the consequence will be x, y, or z."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":903.14,"endTime":910.58,"body":"From the child's perspective, the consequence is actually preferable from engaging in the event"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":910.58,"endTime":913.705,"body":"that's causing their anxiety and putting them in danger."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":914.244,"endTime":918.725,"body":"So when we're thinking about using consequences, which is something adults often default to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":918.725,"endTime":922.26,"body":"when the child not engaging in a behaviour that they would like them to do or they feel that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":922.26,"endTime":927.32,"body":"that they need to do, the child might actually find that preferable from standing up and doing the presentation."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":927.46,"endTime":930.065,"body":"And, again, that compounds the vicious cycle."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":930.065,"endTime":934.725,"body":"Yeah. And I and I think just touching on the point that you made about the psychosomatic symptoms,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":934.785,"endTime":942.11,"body":"it it's very important that we share with children that those sensations are real in their body."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":942.1700000000001,"endTime":946.33,"body":"So it's completely normal to feel your heart beating faster."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":946.33,"endTime":948.195,"body":"That might make you feel sick."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":948.195,"endTime":949.7950000000001,"body":"You might start to sweat."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":949.7950000000001,"endTime":951.095,"body":"You might get a headache."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":951.5550000000001,"endTime":958.129,"body":"You might get other bodily aches and pains because of that reaction that's going on in your body."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":958.1890000000001,"endTime":967.145,"body":"And it has been triggered by a thought and not a real threat, but the feelings feel real. They are real sensations."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":967.525,"endTime":974.66,"body":"So often, children will say that they feel sick or they've got a headache or they've got a headache in their tummy sometimes."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":975.28,"endTime":982.955,"body":"And it's really helpful as a parent or an educator to help the child to understand that those"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":983.335,"endTime":988.955,"body":"sensations in their body are real and are painful and are normal."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":989.78,"endTime":996.12,"body":"And and as you said earlier, because of those avoidant behaviours, the child avoids the difficult"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":996.26,"endTime":1001.335,"body":"situation and doesn't see that whole cycle play out."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1001.475,"endTime":1004.2950000000001,"body":"So if they don't go outside let's go back to the bee."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1004.515,"endTime":1009.71,"body":"If they avoid going out of the house, that means, of course, they don't get stung by a bee."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1009.929,"endTime":1017.275,"body":"That leads them to believe that that avoiding behaviour makes them feel better because when they're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1017.275,"endTime":1021.195,"body":"inside the house, they're no longer under threat of being stung by a bee."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1021.195,"endTime":1024.075,"body":"The physical sensations settle down in their body."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1024.075,"endTime":1027.2,"body":"The sickness feeling goes away. The headache goes away."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1027.58,"endTime":1032.72,"body":"So it reaffirms to them that they've done the right thing by staying inside."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1032.78,"endTime":1035.2,"body":"So the avoidant behaviour has worked."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1035.744,"endTime":1043.205,"body":"And as you said, Simon, it magnifies the threat even further and makes them think, okay. The threat's real."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1043.2649999999999,"endTime":1046.789,"body":"If I can just stay away from the threat, then I'll be safe."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1047.01,"endTime":1051.27,"body":"But that impacts on your life and impacts on your enjoyment of life."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1051.57,"endTime":1058.565,"body":"What we actually need is for the child to be supported, to be able to go outside, experience"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1058.7849999999999,"endTime":1064.645,"body":"being outside, maybe even experience being near a bee, and live through it."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1065.1399999999999,"endTime":1070.26,"body":"And that's the way to chip away and start to diminish this thought or this belief that they're"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1070.26,"endTime":1072.36,"body":"gonna get stung by a bee and die."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1072.42,"endTime":1079.055,"body":"And, of course, that's the approach that CBT or cognitive behaviour therapy has kind of adopted,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1079.115,"endTime":1084.3,"body":"and CBT is is has often been seen as the answer to supporting people, not just children, but"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1084.3,"endTime":1085.6,"body":"adults as well with anxiety."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1085.74,"endTime":1093.7649999999999,"body":"So it's an approach to helping the person understand and undermine that unhelpful belief through graduated exposure."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1094.225,"endTime":1100.725,"body":"So for an example with the bee, the child might look at a picture of a bee on a computer for a couple of minutes."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1101.309,"endTime":1105.47,"body":"That is not putting a bee on them immediately because because that that that's a situation that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1105.47,"endTime":1108.4289999999999,"body":"they're gonna find overwhelming, and then they might move from there."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1108.4289999999999,"endTime":1114.355,"body":"They might graduate to watching videos of bees, and then they might go to, I don't know, a zoo"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1114.355,"endTime":1118.4299999999998,"body":"where they can look at bees behind glass cases where they're safe."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1118.7489999999998,"endTime":1126.509,"body":"So what CBT does is instead of compounding the vicious cycle with avoidance behaviours, which"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1126.509,"endTime":1132.5949999999998,"body":"is what the child is doing now, It puts the child in a situation where they're kind of confronting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1132.654,"endTime":1139.08,"body":"their fear, but in a very, very, very safe, predictable way to start with, which then instead"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1139.08,"endTime":1143.879,"body":"of compounding the unhelpful belief, it undermines the unhelpful belief."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1143.879,"endTime":1148.375,"body":"And when they can cope with that situation, then they then move up to the next sort of level"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1148.5149999999999,"endTime":1152.995,"body":"of meeting and being exposed to their fear, which might be again looking at a video or go into"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1152.995,"endTime":1155.6899999999998,"body":"a zoo and looking at a bee behind a sheet of glass or something."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1155.6899999999998,"endTime":1160.33,"body":"So the the child still feels safe, but the experience is helping undermine the belief."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1160.33,"endTime":1164.925,"body":"And over time, we go around and around, and we increase the graduated exposure."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1165.225,"endTime":1172.445,"body":"And it supports with melting away the belief, and then the anxiety goes away or at least and that's why, actually."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1172.5049999999999,"endTime":1177.09,"body":"Most kids and most adults, their anxiety doesn't ever go away."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1177.09,"endTime":1184.0339999999999,"body":"They learn to control their anxiety and learn to control and manage those fears, and that is an important distinction."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1184.2549999999999,"endTime":1189.455,"body":"We call that process of setting up a graduated exposure, whether it's to public speaking or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1189.455,"endTime":1194.75,"body":"going out in the field or joining in with drama activities in class, we call that process a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1194.75,"endTime":1200.8249999999998,"body":"set of stepping stones, and we give you detailed how to's about how to set those up successfully"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1200.885,"endTime":1204.725,"body":"in a online training, how to support children with anxiety and fear."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1204.725,"endTime":1211.6799999999998,"body":"The thing is with those plans, you do need to set them up in the right way so the student experiences success from day 1."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1211.6799999999998,"endTime":1215.6,"body":"Those early experiences are super important because we don't want the child to be out of their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1215.6,"endTime":1221.435,"body":"depth and feel overwhelmed when they come into contact with whatever it is you're putting in front of them."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1221.435,"endTime":1225.9199999999998,"body":"If we started by placing a bee on a student who has a fear of bees, we're probably gonna"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1225.9199999999998,"endTime":1227.04,"body":"make their fears even worse."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1227.04,"endTime":1231.6,"body":"So setting those processes up in the right graduated way is super important."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1231.6,"endTime":1235.5849999999998,"body":"But for those that are interested, we've got the training how to support students with anxiety"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1235.5849999999998,"endTime":1240.5649999999998,"body":"and fear that's part of our strategy hub membership, and you can find that on our website at beaconschoolsupport.co.uk."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1242.08,"endTime":1246.6399999999999,"body":"Another technique that can be helpful when you're supporting somebody who is struggling with"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1246.6399999999999,"endTime":1253.3049999999998,"body":"anxiety is to try to help them to get some perspective and to think logically about the situation."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1253.365,"endTime":1258.4599999999998,"body":"And, of course, that's much easier said than done when someone's feeling anxious, They're running on adrenaline."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1258.76,"endTime":1260.4599999999998,"body":"They're being driven by emotion."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1261.0,"endTime":1268.185,"body":"But when we can try to coach people into analyzing the situation more logically and realistically,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1269.2839999999999,"endTime":1271.465,"body":"that can help to reduce the anxiety."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1271.8449999999998,"endTime":1278.73,"body":"So we're trying to prompt them to tap into the idea of, am I safe in this moment?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1278.73,"endTime":1281.9499999999998,"body":"You know, what is the real degree of this threat?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1282.365,"endTime":1292.04,"body":"And there's a mindfulness technique which goes by the acronym RAIN, which is recognize, accept, investigate, and non associate."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1292.58,"endTime":1297.8,"body":"So the r is recognizing, and it's just recognizing that you are anxious."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1297.9399999999998,"endTime":1305.115,"body":"So recognizing how your body is responding, picking up that your body is having sensations that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1305.115,"endTime":1311.76,"body":"are indicating to your brain that you are in an anxious situation, and that's okay. Accepting."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1312.2199999999998,"endTime":1320.605,"body":"The a is for accepting, knowing that you can be anxious and that the anxiety can lessen and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1320.605,"endTime":1323.105,"body":"subside and that you will be okay."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1324.125,"endTime":1330.33,"body":"Investigating, So really thinking about where do you feel that sensation in your body."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1330.33,"endTime":1332.9699999999998,"body":"So what does anxiety feel like for you?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1332.9699999999998,"endTime":1334.81,"body":"Is it a knot in your stomach?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1334.81,"endTime":1336.394,"body":"Is it a pounding headache?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1336.5339999999999,"endTime":1342.8739999999998,"body":"Just be aware of where your body is indicating that anxiety. And then non associate."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1343.014,"endTime":1345.07,"body":"So the n is for non associate."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1345.1299999999999,"endTime":1349.1499999999999,"body":"And that's a method of separating yourself from the anxiety."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1349.77,"endTime":1351.6299999999999,"body":"So you are not the anxiety."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1352.395,"endTime":1357.695,"body":"The anxiety is something that you are experiencing, and this experience will pass."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1358.235,"endTime":1360.3349999999998,"body":"And to help with that is breathing."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1361.26,"endTime":1367.8999999999999,"body":"And breathing is the technique that will help to reduce anxiety, and there are all sorts of mindfulness techniques."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1367.8999999999999,"endTime":1370.615,"body":"If you look on YouTube, there's mindfulness for kids."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1370.615,"endTime":1372.7949999999998,"body":"There's lots and lots of different strategies."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1373.0949999999998,"endTime":1380.51,"body":"And if you can help to teach people when they are calm, some mindfulness techniques that if"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1380.51,"endTime":1386.4299999999998,"body":"they deploy the RAIN system, they'll start to recognize when their body is signaling to them"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1386.4299999999998,"endTime":1392.0949999999998,"body":"that they are anxious, and then they'll know that that's the right time to deploy the mindfulness technique."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1392.475,"endTime":1399.9199999999998,"body":"And mindfulness is all about bringing your thoughts and bringing yourself into this moment instead"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1399.9199999999998,"endTime":1405.475,"body":"of projecting future events that might not even happen into the now."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1406.0949999999998,"endTime":1410.995,"body":"So that's why kids get caught in negative spirals that are hard to escape from."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1411.0549999999998,"endTime":1415.5,"body":"They have an unhelpful belief, a worry that's gotten out of control."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1415.6399999999999,"endTime":1418.28,"body":"They have a scary thing that they seek to avoid."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1418.28,"endTime":1422.1999999999998,"body":"And when you get those avoidance behaviours instead of undermining the belief, actually, what"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1422.1999999999998,"endTime":1424.185,"body":"it does is it compounds that belief."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1424.3249999999998,"endTime":1429.2849999999999,"body":"Then the stronger that unhelpful belief is, the more likely the child is to experience anxiety"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1429.2849999999999,"endTime":1434.4599999999998,"body":"and try to avoid being in front of the bee or doing the public speaking or whatever it is."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1434.52,"endTime":1439.08,"body":"That's right. So we need to help them to question those beliefs and undermine them."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1439.08,"endTime":1445.235,"body":"We need to pop the balloon and deflate those beliefs, and that's often in the form of graduated"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1445.774,"endTime":1447.715,"body":"exposure to the scary thing."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1448.1699999999998,"endTime":1452.01,"body":"Being able to do that means you need to be in a calm or logical state."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1452.01,"endTime":1458.0849999999998,"body":"So using mindfulness techniques can be because it takes you away from that feared future event"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1458.225,"endTime":1464.885,"body":"and brings you into the now, and it often calms and downregulates your emotions in the moment."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1465.25,"endTime":1468.4699999999998,"body":"And don't forget what Simon said at the very top of this podcast."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1468.61,"endTime":1474.445,"body":"If your pupil or your child is experiencing very high levels of anxiety, obviously, make sure"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1474.524,"endTime":1477.264,"body":"sure you do seek professional medical help."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1477.8049999999998,"endTime":1479.3249999999998,"body":"Hope you found that useful today."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1479.3249999999998,"endTime":1481.425,"body":"If you have, don't keep it to yourself."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1481.485,"endTime":1482.365,"body":"Share it with the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1482.365,"endTime":1485.2099999999998,"body":"Share it with your colleagues and who might find the information useful."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1485.59,"endTime":1490.3899999999999,"body":"Open up your podcast app, and you can tap on the share button, and you can send a direct link"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1490.3899999999999,"endTime":1496.2849999999999,"body":"to this episode using whatever messaging platform you like, whether that's WhatsApp or messages,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1496.5049999999999,"endTime":1500.1999999999998,"body":"or you can even drop it into your social media feed so other people can see it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1500.1999999999998,"endTime":1504.76,"body":"When you think about how you found out about the show, it was probably by someone sharing it for you."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1504.76,"endTime":1506.52,"body":"And that's all we've got time for today."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1506.52,"endTime":1511.635,"body":"We hope you've enjoyed today's episode of School Behaviour Secrets, and we'll see you next time."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1511.855,"endTime":1512.355,"body":"Bye."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":1512.735,"endTime":1513.635,"body":"Bye for now."}]}