{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.42999999999999,"endTime":92.97,"body":"If you've ever found yourself in a situation where you have to de-escalate a heightened student,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":93.27,"endTime":99.895,"body":"you'll know that it's hard work, it's super stressful, and that's just for the adults. In this episode."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":100.354,"endTime":107.53,"body":"I'm going to share 3 key de-escalation concepts including the anger cycle, the de-escalation"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":107.53,"endTime":113.53,"body":"danger zone, and the valley of despair with you that are essential to know for getting heightened"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":113.53,"endTime":121.315,"body":"pupils back on top of their emotions and avoiding additional follow-up outbursts. Keep listening for more."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":121.615,"endTime":124.51499999999999,"body":"Welcome to the School Behaviour Secrets podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":124.74,"endTime":126.28,"body":"I'm your host, Simon Currigan."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":126.339,"endTime":131.78,"body":"My co host is Emma Shackleton, and we're obsessed with helping teachers, school leaders, parents,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":131.78,"endTime":135.964,"body":"and of course students when classroom behaviour gets in the way of success."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":136.10399999999998,"endTime":140.92399999999998,"body":"We're going to share the tried and tested secrets to classroom management, behavioural special needs,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":141.01,"endTime":146.31,"body":"whole school strategy, and more, all with the aim of helping your students reach their true potential."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":146.69,"endTime":151.88400000000001,"body":"Plus, we'll be letting you eavesdrop on our conversations with thought leaders from around the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":151.88400000000001,"endTime":157.08499999999998,"body":"world, so you'll get to hear the latest evidence based strategies before anyone else."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":157.08499999999998,"endTime":161.23,"body":"This is the School Behaviour Secrets podcast. Hi there."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":161.23,"endTime":165.329,"body":"Simon Currigan here, and welcome to this week's episode of school behaviour secrets."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":165.63,"endTime":170.065,"body":"It's a quick fire episode this week because in England, we're into the half term holidays."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":170.065,"endTime":171.52499999999998,"body":"At least we are where I'm working."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":171.745,"endTime":176.82,"body":"And during the holidays, I like to give you one strategy or idea to think about away from the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":176.82,"endTime":182.42,"body":"main podcast that might be helpful for improving behaviour in your school or supporting the kids"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":182.42,"endTime":185.545,"body":"that you teach with social, emotional, and mental health needs."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":185.545,"endTime":190.204,"body":"Oh, and by the way, if you've been listening to the podcast and you've been finding it useful,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":190.89,"endTime":196.25,"body":"don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends or colleagues about it and throw some good karma"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":196.25,"endTime":197.20999999999998,"body":"back out into the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":197.20999999999998,"endTime":199.785,"body":"Help us get this information out there."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":199.865,"endTime":202.425,"body":"I would be incredibly grateful if you could do that."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":202.425,"endTime":205.08499999999998,"body":"It keeps the podcast going."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":205.46499999999997,"endTime":211.20999999999998,"body":"In this episode, I want to talk about what I call the de escalation danger zone."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":211.75,"endTime":219.325,"body":"It's a really important concept that's critical for de-escalating kids who are experiencing heightened emotions."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":219.545,"endTime":227.82999999999998,"body":"And by the way, the problem with deescalation is it means we, the adults, have started taking action too late."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":227.82999999999998,"endTime":231.59,"body":"It's like the child's in this runaway emotional car."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":231.59,"endTime":238.215,"body":"They're behind the wheel and the car is out of control, and it's skidding and veering off the road."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":238.595,"endTime":246.07,"body":"And what we're trying to do as the adult when we de-escalate is we're saying a bad situation is happening right now."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":246.21,"endTime":251.26999999999998,"body":"How do we stop the car from crashing and do emotional damage limitation?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":251.815,"endTime":259.67499999999995,"body":"Now that's hard stressful work for you and the student because the situation is already out of control."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":260.08,"endTime":265.91999999999996,"body":"It's far better to be in a situation where the car never gets out of control so the students'"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":265.91999999999996,"endTime":270.255,"body":"emotions aren't heightened to the point where they hit, fight, flight, or freeze."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":270.554,"endTime":276.31,"body":"And we do that by looking at how we structure the students' environment and their work and social"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":276.31,"endTime":278.33,"body":"pressures and demands and other stresses."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":278.71000000000004,"endTime":287.485,"body":"And we've got a whole episode on writing successful student regulation plans coming up, so keep listening for that."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":287.485,"endTime":294.16999999999996,"body":"But the truth is even in the real world, even when you have all that in place, well, there's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":294.16999999999996,"endTime":296.59000000000003,"body":"a random element to behaviour."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":296.65,"endTime":300.825,"body":"You can't control for all the variables all the time."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":300.985,"endTime":305.625,"body":"There are forces in the world that are gonna knock that child's car off the road."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":305.625,"endTime":309.73,"body":"The child's hamster died that morning, and no one's told you."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":309.81,"endTime":311.90999999999997,"body":"Someone said something unkind on the bus."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":312.13,"endTime":317.25,"body":"And the moment the child walks through the door, they're dysregulated already or they missed"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":317.25,"endTime":322.895,"body":"breakfast or someone said something nasty to them on social media and so on and so on and so on."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":323.03499999999997,"endTime":329.34000000000003,"body":"There are elements to the child's emotions and behaviour that are just simply sometimes beyond our control."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":329.48,"endTime":334.06,"body":"And so their emotions are still from time to time going to get away from them."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":334.12,"endTime":341.524,"body":"And we're in the situation where we, the adults, are de-escalating, and we need the skills to do it effectively."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":341.744,"endTime":350.22,"body":"And that's where the concept of the de escalation danger zone comes in and the valley of despair and the anger cycle."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":350.22,"endTime":353.385,"body":"So let's start by thinking about the anger cycle."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":353.385,"endTime":359.46500000000003,"body":"This is an audio podcast, so it might not work so well, but I want you to imagine a graph with a line on it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":359.46500000000003,"endTime":363.17999999999995,"body":"Now the line is a bit like a sine wave."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":363.4,"endTime":372.255,"body":"So it looks like a large hill going up and then down followed by a small valley before coming back to baseline again."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":372.255,"endTime":374.095,"body":"So I call that valley the valley of despair."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":374.095,"endTime":379.15999999999997,"body":"So imagine you've got a line that goes gradually up the front of the hill."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":379.15999999999997,"endTime":384.6,"body":"It reaches the top of a hill, and then it goes down the other side, hits ground level, keeps"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":384.6,"endTime":392.245,"body":"going down a bit into a smaller valley, then comes back up, and then levels off at ground level and runs flat again."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":392.625,"endTime":399.15,"body":"That line represents the student's stress chemicals or another way to think about it is it represents"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":399.15,"endTime":404.615,"body":"the levels of anxiety or anger or fear they're experiencing at any one point."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":404.83500000000004,"endTime":408.775,"body":"So let's take the example of, say, a student who's just come into school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":408.83500000000004,"endTime":413.26,"body":"They've already had an argument with their brother outside the school gates, and they come into"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":413.26,"endTime":418.07899999999995,"body":"the classroom and the people next to them, they're working, and the people next to them accidentally"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":418.139,"endTime":422.605,"body":"spills a drink across their paper, ruining their work so far."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":422.745,"endTime":427.625,"body":"And this last bit, the work, it's like it's like the tipping point with their anger, the straw"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":427.625,"endTime":431.13,"body":"that breaks the camel's back, and the student just explodes."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":431.99,"endTime":437.42999999999995,"body":"The series of escalating events that built up to that explosion on our anger cycle, that's the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":437.42999999999995,"endTime":439.95399999999995,"body":"bit where we're walking up the hill."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":439.95399999999995,"endTime":443.014,"body":"So we've got the child whose emotions are building and building."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":443.55499999999995,"endTime":449.51,"body":"And then when we get to the top of the hill, that's when you see the explosive angry behaviour,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":449.51,"endTime":454.33000000000004,"body":"the emotions, the tipping of the chair, the shouting and swearing at the child who accidentally"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":454.54999999999995,"endTime":457.495,"body":"knocked over their drink, the storming out of the classroom."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":457.495,"endTime":458.875,"body":"So so far so simple."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":459.015,"endTime":464.05499999999995,"body":"The next part of our story is the student walks out of the classroom and is met by a learning"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":464.05499999999995,"endTime":469.23900000000003,"body":"mentor who takes them away from the classroom where the triggers are that fuel the student's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":469.23900000000003,"endTime":470.19899999999996,"body":"anger in the first place."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":470.19899999999996,"endTime":475.44399999999996,"body":"And they take them to, say, a quiet room, get them a drink of water, kinda co regulate them"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":475.44399999999996,"endTime":478.905,"body":"a little bit, play some soothing music, maybe get them settled."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":479.59000000000003,"endTime":485.769,"body":"This lowering of emotions leads to the de escalation danger zone."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":486.15,"endTime":492.19500000000005,"body":"At this point, we're walking back down the hill in the anger cycle, but and this is the key thing. Right?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":492.19500000000005,"endTime":495.41499999999996,"body":"We're nowhere near ground level yet."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":496.17999999999995,"endTime":499.86,"body":"We're still maybe, say, midway down."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":499.86,"endTime":505.894,"body":"But here's why this phase is dangerous because it's where your student looks calm. Right?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":505.894,"endTime":511.33500000000004,"body":"They're not strutting about anymore. They're sat down. They're sitting still."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":511.33500000000004,"endTime":518.7,"body":"Maybe they're starting to talk a little bit, but there's a big difference between being still and being calm."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":519.4,"endTime":525.125,"body":"Because their amygdala, that primitive part of their brain that responded to the situation with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":525.125,"endTime":531.945,"body":"emotions and fury, it's still at DEFCON 1 scanning the world for threats, looking for dangers,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":532.75,"endTime":540.29,"body":"especially any triggers related to that final incident that tipped the child into anger, that spilling of the drink."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":540.695,"endTime":549.16,"body":"Underneath that stillness, heightened feelings are still bubbling away like a volcano, right, preparing for secondary eruption."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":549.22,"endTime":557.46,"body":"And the temptation for the adult now is because the pupil looks calm is to start talking to them about the incident."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":557.46,"endTime":563.945,"body":"But this is bad news because we're asking the child to replay the events in their mind."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":563.945,"endTime":570.4,"body":"And when we do that, we don't just get, like, a a visual retelling of it in our mind, like watching"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":570.46,"endTime":571.68,"body":"a film of what happened."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":572.06,"endTime":576.525,"body":"We also replay the emotions associated with it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":576.665,"endTime":583.085,"body":"And our brains don't distinguish between remembered, recreated, replayed emotions from the past"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":583.28,"endTime":588.24,"body":"and the emotions we experience in the real world on a moment by moment basis. They feel the same."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":588.24,"endTime":596.025,"body":"We're psychologically then bringing the threat and all the emotions associated with it back"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":596.025,"endTime":602.27,"body":"into the room when we ask the child to talk about what happened, and bang, we get another explosion."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":602.89,"endTime":608.49,"body":"Or even worse, maybe the student looked calm and we decided to bring the two children together"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":608.49,"endTime":610.19,"body":"to try and resolve the incident."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":610.554,"endTime":617.054,"body":"And then we're not just psychologically bringing the threat back into the room from our primitive brains perspective."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":617.355,"endTime":622.72,"body":"We're bringing the actual physical threat back into the room from our brains perspective."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":623.02,"endTime":625.36,"body":"And boom, another anger outburst."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":625.499,"endTime":631.5550000000001,"body":"Only second time over, it's going to take way longer for the child to get regulated again because"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":631.5550000000001,"endTime":633.655,"body":"of the way our brains work."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":633.715,"endTime":635.075,"body":"So what do we do?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":635.075,"endTime":644.059,"body":"Well, we have to wait to get them on our anger cycle graph back to ground level before we talk about what happened."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":644.485,"endTime":648.905,"body":"But you see, there's a second trap and that's the valley of despair."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":649.285,"endTime":656.84,"body":"That's where some kids have a body chemistry crash and become overwhelmed with regret and sad emotions and tears."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":656.9,"endTime":662.335,"body":"And there's no point in talking to them about what happened in this state because they're just"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":662.335,"endTime":663.375,"body":"not ready to do it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":663.375,"endTime":666.515,"body":"They're just sort of choked up with these stronger emotions still."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":667.0550000000001,"endTime":672.5500000000001,"body":"It's not until they've climbed out of the valley of despair back up to ground level that we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":672.5500000000001,"endTime":678.905,"body":"can have a reasonable conversation with them where you help them understand what happened, why"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":678.905,"endTime":683.865,"body":"the event happened, potentially reframe the event, put it in perspective, talk about how to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":683.865,"endTime":690.4,"body":"make things better, coaching them through, how to deal with the situation better next time because"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":690.46,"endTime":695.645,"body":"now the student is back in a state where they're receptive, they're regulated, and they can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":695.645,"endTime":703.1850000000001,"body":"learn and get things back on track because they're past the de escalation danger zone."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":703.59,"endTime":709.0500000000001,"body":"And they've been through the valley of despair, and they're back on level ground."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":709.11,"endTime":716.6650000000001,"body":"And to get there on our part, that means being a little bit more patient, reading their body"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":716.6650000000001,"endTime":722.99,"body":"language more accurately, and getting them through the anger cycle back to ground level and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":722.99,"endTime":728.1750000000001,"body":"having those relational restorative conversations when they're going to have the impact that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":728.1750000000001,"endTime":730.035,"body":"we want them to have."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":730.335,"endTime":738.39,"body":"Remember, being still and being calm are two very different things, and that's what I've got for you today."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":738.39,"endTime":743.845,"body":"Hopefully, these concepts will help you if you're ever put in the difficult situation of having"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":743.845,"endTime":746.585,"body":"to deescalate a student in school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":746.645,"endTime":749.625,"body":"Next week, we'll be back with a normal episode of school behaviour secrets."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":749.9250000000001,"endTime":754.12,"body":"But until then, I hope you have a brilliant and restful week."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":754.1800000000001,"endTime":759.64,"body":"You've earned it if you're not in school right now, and I look forward to seeing you next time"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":759.7,"endTime":761.465,"body":"on school behaviour secrets."}]}