{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":87.83,"endTime":88.149,"body":"Do you"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":88.149,"endTime":93.28999999999999,"body":"work with students that find it difficult to understand and succeed with social situations,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":93.91,"endTime":100.375,"body":"so the result is that you see anxiety in the students, or they miscue and cause arguments and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":100.375,"endTime":107.28899999999999,"body":"disagreements amongst their peers, or you get what looks like inappropriate behaviour, or those"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":107.28899999999999,"endTime":111.31,"body":"kids eventually avoid being in those social situations altogether?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":112.16999999999999,"endTime":114.969,"body":"Well, if you do, this is the episode for you."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":114.969,"endTime":122.255,"body":"Because today, our guest, Sue Larky, is going to explain step by step how to use social scripts"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":122.55499999999999,"endTime":129.23,"body":"to support those students in your classroom so that they can understand and manage social situations successfully."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":130.97,"endTime":134.765,"body":"Welcome to the School Behaviour Secrets Podcast. Podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":134.765,"endTime":136.365,"body":"I'm your host, Simon Corrigan."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":136.365,"endTime":142.10999999999999,"body":"My co host is Emma Shackleton, and we're obsessed with helping teachers, school leaders, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":142.10999999999999,"endTime":146.05,"body":"of course students when classroom behaviour gets in the way of success."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":146.10999999999999,"endTime":150.825,"body":"We're gonna share the tried and tested secrets to classroom management, behavioural special needs,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":150.98499999999999,"endTime":156.365,"body":"whole school strategy, and more, all with the aim of helping your students reach their true potential."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":156.664,"endTime":162.45,"body":"Plus, we'll be letting you eavesdrop on our conversations with thought leaders from around the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":162.51,"endTime":167.14999999999998,"body":"So you'll get to hear the latest evidence based strategies before anyone else."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":167.14999999999998,"endTime":172.175,"body":"This is the School Behaviour Secrets podcast. Hi, everybody."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":172.175,"endTime":176.175,"body":"My name is Simon Currigan, and welcome to another episode of School Behaviour Secrets."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":176.175,"endTime":178.50900000000001,"body":"In the words of Rihanna, hey, baby."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":178.649,"endTime":180.08999999999997,"body":"This is what you came for."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":180.08999999999997,"endTime":185.289,"body":"If by this is what you came for, she meant student SEMH and behaviour insights, which I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":185.289,"endTime":188.115,"body":"is exactly what was on her mind when she recorded it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":188.115,"endTime":192.035,"body":"I'm joined today as ever by my cohost, Emma Shackleton. Hi, Emma."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":192.035,"endTime":192.855,"body":"Hi, Simon."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":192.995,"endTime":194.355,"body":"OK, it's question time."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":194.355,"endTime":194.914,"body":"Hit me."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":194.914,"endTime":199.2,"body":"It's a good one. This is a YouGov survey back from 2016."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":199.579,"endTime":202.39999999999998,"body":"So a little while back, but not too far."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":202.7,"endTime":209.415,"body":"What percentage of women thought the tradition of a man paying for the first date is old fashioned?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":209.795,"endTime":213.095,"body":"Okay. So we're talking, like, 8 years ago here."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":213.58999999999997,"endTime":216.41,"body":"I think that figure might be slightly different now."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":216.47,"endTime":222.595,"body":"But my guess for 2016, the number of women who think that the tradition of the man paying for"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":222.595,"endTime":226.29399999999998,"body":"dinner on a first date would be old fashioned."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":226.434,"endTime":227.95499999999998,"body":"Oh, I'm gonna go on the fence."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":227.95499999999998,"endTime":231.69899999999998,"body":"I'm gonna say half of them, 50%. Go on."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":231.69899999999998,"endTime":233.22,"body":"What was the actual figure?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":233.22,"endTime":235.88,"body":"Right. I think your spidey sense was tingling on this one."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":236.01999999999998,"endTime":245.575,"body":"So the survey said an even split. 49% of women said they thought it was old fashioned, 43%, so they didn't. The rest weren't sure."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":245.795,"endTime":253.26999999999998,"body":"The younger you were, the more likely you were to think it was old fashioned with 57% of 18"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":253.26999999999998,"endTime":254.835,"body":"to 20 nines thinking it was."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":254.915,"endTime":257.735,"body":"And there was a really similar split amongst men."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":257.955,"endTime":263.06,"body":"And the the male profile kind of mirrored the women's sort of the older you were, the less likely"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":263.06,"endTime":264.5,"body":"you were to think it was old fashioned."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":264.5,"endTime":268.6,"body":"Okay. Mildly interesting. What's that got to do with today's podcast?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":268.9,"endTime":270.125,"body":"Right. So bear with me."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":270.365,"endTime":276.78499999999997,"body":"So going on a first date is a really specific social situation, and there can be some awkwardness"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":277.005,"endTime":279.18399999999997,"body":"about talking who's gonna pay for the meal."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":279.51,"endTime":286.39,"body":"Either party might make the wrong assumption about who was gonna pay because the social rules still aren't always clear."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":286.39,"endTime":292.794,"body":"And often, we can see children in school struggling with social situations where the rules about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":292.794,"endTime":297.615,"body":"what to say and do are implicit. They're unspoken. They're kind of assumed."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":297.78,"endTime":302.9,"body":"And that can lead to misunderstandings and difficulties and anxiety, kids miscueing, and all"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":302.9,"endTime":304.76,"body":"sorts of knock on difficulties."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":305.265,"endTime":310.625,"body":"And when you dig into the why behind many behavior incidents, you'll often find what sparked"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":310.625,"endTime":316.79999999999995,"body":"the issue was a child didn't understand how to do well in that social situation."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":316.94,"endTime":323.18,"body":"And today, our guest, Soulaki, is going to explain how to use social scripts to support those people."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":323.18,"endTime":328.565,"body":"Social scripts are a simple way of explaining what the social situation is, what it's for, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":328.565,"endTime":331.945,"body":"what to say and do in those situations to get a good outcome."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":333.0,"endTime":335.1,"body":"Actually, that does make perfect sense."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":335.32,"endTime":342.79499999999996,"body":"But before we get into that, I'd like to say to any listeners who haven't subscribed to the show yet, why not? What are you thinking?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":343.57500000000005,"endTime":349.755,"body":"Subscribing is the easy way to get new episodes of School Behaviour Secrets as and when they're released."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":349.98900000000003,"endTime":357.04999999999995,"body":"All you've got to do is open your podcast app, tap the follow or subscribe button, and you'll never miss another thing."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":357.275,"endTime":361.91499999999996,"body":"And while you've got that podcast app open, don't close it because we've got a free download"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":361.91499999999996,"endTime":364.015,"body":"that complements today's content really well."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":364.289,"endTime":368.549,"body":"If you work with kids who present behavior that you find challenging or difficult to manage"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":368.68999999999994,"endTime":374.515,"body":"and you're not sure why the child is behaving that way and you want to address the underlying"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":374.895,"endTime":378.015,"body":"root cause of their behaviour, this will help."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":378.015,"endTime":382.53999999999996,"body":"It's called the SEND handbook, and it will help you link behaviors you've seen in the classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":382.84000000000003,"endTime":386.66499999999996,"body":"with possible causes like trauma or autism or ADHD, say."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":386.745,"endTime":390.125,"body":"And, of course, the idea here isn't for teachers to make a diagnosis."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":390.42499999999995,"endTime":392.125,"body":"We're not qualified to do that."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":392.18499999999995,"endTime":397.92999999999995,"body":"But if we link behaviors to possible causes quickly, it means that we can get the right help"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":397.92999999999995,"endTime":400.98900000000003,"body":"and get early intervention strategies into place."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":401.289,"endTime":406.33500000000004,"body":"It even comes with a set of fact sheets with key information and strategies to support children"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":406.33500000000004,"endTime":409.93499999999995,"body":"with conditions like pathological demand avoidance, or you might have heard it referred to as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":409.93499999999995,"endTime":417.04999999999995,"body":"PDA, oppositional defiant disorder or ODD, fetal alcohol spectrum disorder, FASD, and others."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":417.27,"endTime":420.15,"body":"The handbook is a completely free download."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":420.15,"endTime":424.31499999999994,"body":"If you haven't got yours yet, we'll put a link in the episode description."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":424.53499999999997,"endTime":427.515,"body":"So all you've got to do is open your podcast app."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":427.57500000000005,"endTime":430.55499999999995,"body":"Click through directly to get your copy today."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":430.90999999999997,"endTime":434.13,"body":"And here's Simon's conversation with Sue Larky."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":435.47,"endTime":439.855,"body":"It is my absolute pleasure to welcome our guest, Sue Larky, to the show."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":440.17499999999995,"endTime":446.755,"body":"Sue is a highly qualified educator who's taught students with autistic spectrum disorder in mainstream and special schools."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":446.94899999999996,"endTime":455.30499999999995,"body":"She has her own podcast, the Sulaki podcast, which has over 200 episodes and 1,300,000 downloads."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":455.30499999999995,"endTime":461.405,"body":"She combines practical experience with extensive research, having completed a master's in special education."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":461.9,"endTime":467.6,"body":"Sue has also authored 18 books on autism spectrum disorders and other forms of neurodiversity,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":468.22,"endTime":473.70399999999995,"body":"and she believes that armed with the tools of understanding and confidence, much can be achieved"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":473.70399999999995,"endTime":475.384,"body":"to support our young people."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":475.384,"endTime":477.80499999999995,"body":"Sue, thank you for joining us today."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":477.94500000000005,"endTime":479.48400000000004,"body":"Thank you for that lovely introduction."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":479.75,"endTime":481.35,"body":"When I hear that, I think who did that?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":481.35,"endTime":487.725,"body":"But, you know, I've been doing this for 30 years, so I call myself a pracademic, which is a practical academic."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":487.725,"endTime":489.245,"body":"So don't turn off listeners."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":489.245,"endTime":491.56499999999994,"body":"You're gonna take away tools and tips."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":491.56499999999994,"endTime":494.44500000000005,"body":"There'll be no technical terms."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":494.44500000000005,"endTime":496.144,"body":"It's just really practical strategies."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":496.509,"endTime":497.94899999999996,"body":"Well, I've been really looking forward to this."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":497.94899999999996,"endTime":503.07000000000005,"body":"I we've been watching you on social media and your podcast and I think it's gonna be really, really engaging today."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":503.07000000000005,"endTime":504.405,"body":"It's it's not gonna be boring."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":504.644,"endTime":511.04499999999996,"body":"No. I make no apologies that I do talk fast, but reminder, you can slow it down on your podcast"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":511.04499999999996,"endTime":513.64,"body":"if you need to, especially with my Aussie accent."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":515.4,"endTime":521.96,"body":"So we're gonna focus today on using social scripts to support students to develop their social skills."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":521.96,"endTime":527.595,"body":"But the the thing we need to get first, just to move it out of the way, is to ask, what do we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":527.595,"endTime":531.54,"body":"actually mean by social skills, and why are they important for our students in school?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":531.7,"endTime":538.34,"body":"Okay. So I prefer the term social knowledge, which I got off Dane Beadle who's in the UK and"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":538.34,"endTime":543.0649999999999,"body":"one of my friends and mentors who is on the spectrum and has a lived experience."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":543.0649999999999,"endTime":546.98,"body":"Now I like the term social knowledge, but most teachers don't relate to that."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":547.06,"endTime":551.16,"body":"So I tend to use that word social skills so people know what I'm talking about."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":551.54,"endTime":558.325,"body":"But social knowledge is helping children with neurodiversity understand how weird and quirky"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":558.325,"endTime":565.385,"body":"neurotypical people can be and giving them the understanding because otherwise it builds anxiety."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":565.739,"endTime":572.22,"body":"And so what my doctorate research actually found is that for many of our children past year 2, the rules change."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":572.22,"endTime":577.005,"body":"You know, in the under 7, everyone's your friend, you can join to play in a game, but I've seen"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":577.005,"endTime":581.345,"body":"15 year olds going up saying to other 15 year olds, can I play?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":581.9399999999999,"endTime":585.38,"body":"Now can you imagine how 15 year olds would react to that?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":585.38,"endTime":590.1,"body":"So what we're trying to do is give them the social knowledge and help them understand and make"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":590.1,"endTime":592.985,"body":"it more in a neurodiverse way."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":592.985,"endTime":598.445,"body":"But I also want to say I don't think there is any point teaching a child in my class social"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":598.585,"endTime":604.88,"body":"knowledge without talking to the peers, and ensuring they know that other people engage socially"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":605.02,"endTime":611.255,"body":"differently and, ensuring that they, as I may say, embrace difference to make a difference,"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":611.715,"endTime":616.7900000000001,"body":"because as a classroom teacher I found it better if I did the social knowledge activities as"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":616.7900000000001,"endTime":622.39,"body":"a whole class, not just taking out the neurodiverse children, skilling them up, so called, and"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":622.39,"endTime":624.855,"body":"then the other kids don't react the way they were meant to."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":624.855,"endTime":629.6750000000001,"body":"Where the children then experiment and try out that knowledge that they're in a supportive community,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":630.535,"endTime":635.46,"body":"that everyone's clued into how we be inclusive and support each other."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":635.52,"endTime":641.0600000000001,"body":"Absolutely. Absolutely. And what my doctorate research found is we don't give the other kids enough credit."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":641.335,"endTime":647.754,"body":"We tend to hear the bad stories and actually in my experience in my classroom when I do social"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":647.8140000000001,"endTime":652.9,"body":"skills or social knowledge, the kids love it because they have noticed this child engages differently"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":652.9,"endTime":654.82,"body":"and often don't know how to engage with them."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":654.82,"endTime":659.325,"body":"So I have had 7 year olds make a social script for another child."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":659.465,"endTime":665.065,"body":"You know, like, we need to give them this the tools and understanding to help understand each other."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":665.065,"endTime":670.317,"body":"And And I guess for those kids as well, the neurotypical kids, there is power in making the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":670.317,"endTime":673.6750000000001,"body":"implicit knowledge, which is often quite fuzzy in our own heads as well."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":673.6750000000001,"endTime":674.895,"body":"It's stuff we're doing intuitively."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":675.595,"endTime":681.855,"body":"Actually, making it explicit in written and verbal form because that helps then solidify, crystallize"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":682.7,"endTime":686.14,"body":"your own thinking about about these kind of aspects of life."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":686.14,"endTime":692.645,"body":"Absolutely. And look, for me, I really came into using social scripts because I had been in"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":692.945,"endTime":696.945,"body":"a mainstream and a specialist school and then was going out into mainstream schools and I was"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":696.945,"endTime":701.14,"body":"all these people like I'm getting all this behaviour, I'm getting all this behaviour, and when"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":701.14,"endTime":706.1,"body":"I stopped and looked back it wasn't behaviour, it was a child trying to engage, it was a child"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":706.1,"endTime":712.494,"body":"trying to understand, it was a child trying to connect, often not understanding how to do that,"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":712.874,"endTime":717.195,"body":"and then what I found is social scripts were much more positive."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":717.195,"endTime":724.28,"body":"Like, even today I had an email from a school that, you know, oh the child's hitting there needs to be a consequence."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":724.9,"endTime":730.585,"body":"No, you need to understand why the child's hitting and write a social script to help them understand"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":730.725,"endTime":732.825,"body":"what to do when they're angry and frustrated."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":732.885,"endTime":737.71,"body":"Because telling a child no on the spectrum, do you know what they hear?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":737.71,"endTime":739.2710000000001,"body":"Do you know what they hear,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":739.2710000000001,"endTime":739.792,"body":"Simon, when"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":739.792,"endTime":741.3530000000001,"body":"we say no? Go on. Never."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":741.3530000000001,"endTime":744.475,"body":"Never again for the rest of your life because of their literalness."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":744.7950000000001,"endTime":750.495,"body":"So for example, when Lawson was told never run on the asphalt, that was a school rule."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":750.7950000000001,"endTime":756.01,"body":"So she'd go outside for physical education and wouldn't run because she was told you're never"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":756.01,"endTime":757.39,"body":"allowed to run on the asphalt."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":757.85,"endTime":764.804,"body":"So what social knowledge does or social scripts explains that sometimes we run on the asphalt, sometimes we don't."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":764.864,"endTime":769.744,"body":"Sometimes when we're out playing with our friends we have to be careful so people don't get"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":769.744,"endTime":775.49,"body":"hurt, But when we're outside with a teacher doing supervised ball games, then we're allowed to run."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":775.5500000000001,"endTime":777.905,"body":"Because when you hit say no, the child hears never."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":778.0640000000001,"endTime":781.365,"body":"Okay. So that adds detail that they can understand."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":781.6650000000001,"endTime":783.664,"body":"I always imagine things like like a Google map."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":783.664,"endTime":785.504,"body":"It doesn't give you much information about the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":785.504,"endTime":790.22,"body":"It just shows you a very basic black and white information about where the roads are."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":790.36,"endTime":795.635,"body":"It doesn't give you the nuance, like where the paving stones are on the path, you know, exactly"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":795.695,"endTime":801.955,"body":"where the traffic lights are or what they look like, and it's adding detail onto them up. We've teased social scripts."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":802.33,"endTime":806.99,"body":"Let's actually explore what they are and how they can help our students develop their social skills."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":807.2900000000001,"endTime":814.385,"body":"So you've touched on it, but what is a social script actually for, and and what does it give students?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":815.004,"endTime":816.684,"body":"How do they benefit from using them?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":816.684,"endTime":822.66,"body":"Well, my friend, colleague, and co author Anna Talemans, who's a parent, and what Anna says,"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":822.66,"endTime":827.445,"body":"and I just love this, improvement in behaviour doesn't come from the social script, it comes"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":827.445,"endTime":830.025,"body":"from the improved social understanding."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":830.565,"endTime":833.6850000000001,"body":"So what a social script does is give improved social understanding."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":833.6850000000001,"endTime":839.799,"body":"So I'll give you an example, so Anna's Italian, her mum used to come over and want to hug her"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":839.799,"endTime":845.16,"body":"son Daniel, who is on the spectrum, and as soon as he'd hear Nona was coming, he would run up"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":845.16,"endTime":846.7,"body":"to his bedroom and hide."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":846.985,"endTime":849.945,"body":"So she'd have a mum who's like, what's wrong with your child?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":849.945,"endTime":851.8050000000001,"body":"You can imagine this family dynamic."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":851.865,"endTime":852.365,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":852.4250000000001,"endTime":856.205,"body":"So she wrote a social script that was for Daniel and Nona."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":856.66,"endTime":860.76,"body":"So the social script said, Nonna's love to hug their grandchildren."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":860.98,"endTime":866.2,"body":"When Nonna's come we need to greet them at the door, we need to give them a big hug."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":866.804,"endTime":870.405,"body":"Nona's like to count to 10 when they hug you."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":870.405,"endTime":873.37,"body":"When you're hugging Nona you're going to count to 10."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":873.9300000000001,"endTime":878.25,"body":"Once you have finished hugging Nonna you're going to give her a kiss on each cheek, say it's"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":878.25,"endTime":881.39,"body":"good to see you Nonna and you can go up into your bedroom."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":881.845,"endTime":887.845,"body":"So she made that very clear, but for Nona to understand too, that was the rule now, and then"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":887.845,"endTime":893.1890000000001,"body":"they did that and then they added in when Nona's leave, Nona's like to hug and kiss again."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":893.1890000000001,"endTime":900.095,"body":"So it was very clear to him and her what how it was going to look, and it took the whole stress"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":900.095,"endTime":901.855,"body":"out of the situation for both of them."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":901.855,"endTime":903.535,"body":"Can you see what how that works?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":903.535,"endTime":907.315,"body":"Absolutely. Because both of them now know what to expect from the situation."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":907.455,"endTime":914.32,"body":"Nona wants that physical touch to show that compassion and that love, but it's gonna be limited for her."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":914.32,"endTime":918.345,"body":"She knows that the child can only cope or manage so much of that."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":918.345,"endTime":923.5450000000001,"body":"So she gets a bit of what she needs, but then the child then knows this is only gonna be a short term situation."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":923.5450000000001,"endTime":924.9250000000001,"body":"It's not gonna go on forever."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":924.94,"endTime":929.091,"body":"I'm only gonna hook for a short time, and then I can retreat to my safe space."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":929.091,"endTime":930.049,"body":"Exactly"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":930.049,"endTime":935.405,"body":"And then Nana's not offended, and the child understands the situation and understands"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":935.405,"endTime":940.845,"body":"the expectations and can then thrive and cope and manage that situation really well because"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":940.845,"endTime":943.71,"body":"everything is super explicit, very, very clear."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":944.01,"endTime":949.575,"body":"Absolutely. So that's sort of a home situation for parents that often explaining, I just have"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":949.575,"endTime":952.695,"body":"to tell you one funny one I was thinking about today, thinking about this."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":952.695,"endTime":957.95,"body":"So whenever people come to my workshops I always send, what to do in your teachers away social"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":957.95,"endTime":961.5500000000001,"body":"script, you know, sometimes teacher  is away, there's a different teacher, you know, I do it on"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":961.5500000000001,"endTime":965.1700000000001,"body":"Canva so teachers can edit it with their own information."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":965.315,"endTime":969.5550000000001,"body":"But one of my families were going on holiday, and they're very concerned about taking their"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":969.5550000000001,"endTime":974.26,"body":"son on an airplane in a holiday, so we did a similar sort of social script where when we go"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":974.26,"endTime":980.499,"body":"on holidays, we're catching this plane, they did the whole social script, the whole thing, but"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":980.499,"endTime":983.16,"body":"they forgot to tell him he was going back home."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":986.325,"endTime":987.605,"body":"Oh, one way ticket. Yeah?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":987.605,"endTime":989.145,"body":"He thought he was moving house."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":989.364,"endTime":993.809,"body":"The whole holiday, they crossed off the calendar each day, he knew what he was doing each day,"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":993.809,"endTime":996.369,"body":"they'd got on Google and downloaded all the information."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":996.369,"endTime":1002.825,"body":"He loved numbers so they'd like had ticket prices and times and all these things, but they forgot"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1002.825,"endTime":1004.845,"body":"to tell him what flight he was going home on."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1004.905,"endTime":1010.98,"body":"So this is where we have to be really careful and use words like sometimes, usually, because"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1010.98,"endTime":1012.52,"body":"what if that plane got delayed?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1012.58,"endTime":1014.74,"body":"What if the activities were closed?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1014.74,"endTime":1018.9,"body":"So this is where I think you've got to be really careful with your language."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1018.9,"endTime":1024.315,"body":"So as wonderful as social scripts and social stories are, I have seen it where children end"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1024.315,"endTime":1029.77,"body":"up dobbing on peers for breaking rules because, you know, all kids swear."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1029.9099999999999,"endTime":1032.809,"body":"You can't say you can't swear. Sometimes people swear."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1032.95,"endTime":1038.935,"body":"So making sure the social scripts have that sort of flexibility is really important too."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1038.935,"endTime":1040.135,"body":"So it's not just the script."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1040.135,"endTime":1045.915,"body":"It's how you execute the script and how you really think about just just think about your plane example."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1046.499,"endTime":1051.48,"body":"We all carry around lots of implicit knowledge, and, actually, it's being mindful and intentional"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1051.78,"endTime":1057.595,"body":"about, right, have I left any gaps here where I'm just assuming the person reading the story"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1057.975,"endTime":1061.48,"body":"knows what I know and being kind of meticulous about that."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1061.48,"endTime":1062.6,"body":"Is that the right kind of"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1062.84,"endTime":1067.48,"body":"Absolutely. And that's why I like the idea of social knowledge because that's what you're giving"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1067.48,"endTime":1069.8999999999999,"body":"the child, the knowledge and understanding of the situation."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1069.96,"endTime":1076.2649999999999,"body":"And we just assume so much as neurotypical because we're a 4 wheel drive, this kid's a one track"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1076.2649999999999,"endTime":1082.95,"body":"mind, so we have that flexibility of thinking and, you know, we're a four wheel train, we know"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1083.09,"endTime":1087.945,"body":"planes break down, things go wrong, but if a child on the spectrum is told something because"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1087.945,"endTime":1090.5049999999999,"body":"of their mind blindness, they don't know."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1090.5049999999999,"endTime":1093.305,"body":"They really don't know and then they often get in trouble."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1093.305,"endTime":1098.82,"body":"So that's why I think a lot of behaviour can be helped by doing the social script."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1098.8799999999999,"endTime":1104.055,"body":"I'm happy to send you the PDF with how to write them and the scenarios if you do attach things"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1104.055,"endTime":1107.675,"body":"to your podcast because I think that's really helpful, and I've just got a one pager."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1108.375,"endTime":1114.6699999999998,"body":"So what I would recommend, the title introduces the scenarios, for example, in the one that"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1114.6699999999998,"endTime":1119.8349999999998,"body":"people can download is, for his child who doesn't know how to ask for help, And this came from"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1119.8349999999998,"endTime":1126.5749999999998,"body":"one of my little boys who was having a massive meltdown and, I asked him, what's wrong?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1126.7949999999998,"endTime":1128.894,"body":"And he said, my pencil's broken."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1129.1799999999998,"endTime":1133.58,"body":"I said, what else could you do? And he goes, no. My pencil's broken."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1133.58,"endTime":1135.6799999999998,"body":"The teacher comes quickly if I scream."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1135.74,"endTime":1138.415,"body":"It's like, well, we could ask for help."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1139.514,"endTime":1141.195,"body":"Right strategy, right time. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1141.195,"endTime":1144.634,"body":"Yeah. Well, he's like, I don't wanna wait for the teacher to come I just scream."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1144.634,"endTime":1145.6999999999998,"body":"I know they'll come quickly."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1145.6999999999998,"endTime":1151.779,"body":"It's actually really clever, but in this one, it's, if I don't know what to do, I can ask for help. Okay?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1151.779,"endTime":1157.115,"body":"And then, again, we're using things like sometimes I need to ask the teacher for help."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1157.415,"endTime":1161.2749999999999,"body":"It's okay to ask for help when I don't know what to do."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1161.49,"endTime":1166.29,"body":"Some of my children who are perfectionists get very anxious about asking for help, so I'm giving"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1166.29,"endTime":1169.83,"body":"them permission, that social knowledge, it's okay to ask for help."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1170.004,"endTime":1174.404,"body":"Because some of my students think everyone else knows what to do, and therefore the anxiety"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1174.404,"endTime":1177.445,"body":"goes up, and when anxiety's up, problem solving's down."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1177.445,"endTime":1179.76,"body":"We, you know, amygdala and how that all works."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1180.24,"endTime":1182.56,"body":"So that's the perspective sentence."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1182.56,"endTime":1184.58,"body":"That sort of explains the situation."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1185.12,"endTime":1186.82,"body":"The next one is where we're coaching."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1187.0849999999998,"endTime":1191.985,"body":"So I put my hand up to attract the teacher's attention, I look towards the teacher."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1192.1239999999998,"endTime":1196.6699999999998,"body":"So we're telling the child, and I would actually model that, practice that, I'm really lucky"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1196.6699999999998,"endTime":1200.9089999999999,"body":"I've got some amazing teacher assistants in Australia who'll go through these every day with"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1200.9089999999999,"endTime":1202.75,"body":"the child and remind them."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1202.75,"endTime":1207.7549999999999,"body":"It does take a little bit of time, but it's better to be proactive than reactive."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1207.895,"endTime":1209.495,"body":"That repetition's important, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1209.495,"endTime":1211.0149999999999,"body":"It's not a one and done. No."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1211.0149999999999,"endTime":1215.9399999999998,"body":"You wouldn't just teach anything in the classroom once and hope magically everyone would have to study."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1216.32,"endTime":1218.4199999999998,"body":"You have to come back to these and explore them."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1218.7199999999998,"endTime":1222.8349999999998,"body":"And the power of autism spectrum, it's their superpower. They love repetition."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1223.5349999999999,"endTime":1230.87,"body":"So if you don't have a teacher assistant, what I do, I video it once on my iPad and the kids"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1230.87,"endTime":1232.8899999999999,"body":"watch it over and over again, right?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1233.11,"endTime":1238.2839999999999,"body":"So we can do it like a book for them to re watch so each morning and lots of schools in Australia"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1238.2839999999999,"endTime":1240.0649999999998,"body":"are setting up these hubs now."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1240.125,"endTime":1244.2839999999999,"body":"Well, I've got a podcast episode on it, but basically children come in in the morning as an engine"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1244.2839999999999,"endTime":1248.34,"body":"check, they might have a social script they're working on for the day, some thinking party,"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1248.6399999999999,"endTime":1252.7199999999998,"body":"and this is where we build their skills and knowledge, and so if their teacher was away the"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1252.7199999999998,"endTime":1256.985,"body":"social script about what do if your teacher is away is there or what to do if your friend is"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1256.985,"endTime":1262.4089999999999,"body":"away, you know, so giving them that knowledge, the things that we know might trigger them, to"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1262.4089999999999,"endTime":1264.33,"body":"remind them what can happen in the day."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1264.33,"endTime":1268.27,"body":"So, but this is the important thing a lot of people forget, the alternative."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1268.6499999999999,"endTime":1271.745,"body":"So we've told them what to do, but then you need an alternative."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1271.745,"endTime":1275.5049999999999,"body":"And it's like with the friendship, what to do if your friends don't want to play with you, you"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1275.5049999999999,"endTime":1276.945,"body":"know, what to say if someone says no."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1276.945,"endTime":1279.59,"body":"You've got to give an alternative what they can do."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1280.1299999999999,"endTime":1283.35,"body":"So, sometimes the teacher is busy with someone else."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1283.73,"endTime":1286.215,"body":"That is okay, I can wait for help."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1286.215,"endTime":1288.955,"body":"This is really important with that we can wait. Yeah?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1289.175,"endTime":1290.855,"body":"And then the descriptive sentence."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1290.855,"endTime":1296.8999999999999,"body":"So when the teacher's finished with another student, I can call out in a medium voice, excuse"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1296.8999999999999,"endTime":1303.215,"body":"me, I wait for the teacher to look at me and say my name, I then ask my question. Okay?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1303.435,"endTime":1307.915,"body":"And this is important and so often people think it's a bit weird in the social script but I"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1307.915,"endTime":1309.3739999999998,"body":"found the children love it."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1309.6399999999999,"endTime":1316.78,"body":"It's the conclusion or affirming that when my teachers answer my question I say thank you, right?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1316.84,"endTime":1320.8049999999998,"body":"And my teacher is happy when I put my hand up for help."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1320.945,"endTime":1326.0649999999998,"body":"Do you know, like letting them know that my teacher is happy when I wait quietly with my hand"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1326.0649999999998,"endTime":1328.8999999999999,"body":"up, My teacher's happy when I use a medium voice."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1328.8999999999999,"endTime":1330.6799999999998,"body":"So sort of reaffirming why."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1330.74,"endTime":1332.5,"body":"Because they might not be able to infer that."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1332.5,"endTime":1337.365,"body":"That's right. And I can tell you the kid's not happy waiting with their hand up and talking a medium voice."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1337.365,"endTime":1342.5649999999998,"body":"So what I'm explaining is the teacher's perspective of the situation. Does that make sense?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1342.5649999999998,"endTime":1347.52,"body":"Absolutely. So we've got a description of a situation, a context, or a trigger moment wanting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1347.52,"endTime":1349.76,"body":"to get some help from the teacher."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1349.76,"endTime":1351.9199999999998,"body":"Then you've got some coaching, a step by step."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1351.9199999999998,"endTime":1356.715,"body":"Then you've got a life doesn't always go that way, so here's the alternative."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1357.254,"endTime":1363.25,"body":"And then really a kind of summarizing the result of that, which is my teacher will be happy with me."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1363.25,"endTime":1369.33,"body":"So it's giving them an a to zed, a step by step of how to be successful, and then the result"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1369.33,"endTime":1372.365,"body":"and the impact of following that routine."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1372.365,"endTime":1373.8249999999998,"body":"Is that a reasonable summary?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1373.885,"endTime":1378.8449999999998,"body":"Absolutely. And what I find is the teachers that I work closely with, they just start doing"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1378.8449999999998,"endTime":1382.04,"body":"intuitively, you know, and, oh, I should have said the really important thing."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1382.04,"endTime":1383.2389999999998,"body":"This needs to be visual."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1383.2389999999998,"endTime":1386.1999999999998,"body":"It needs to be photos of the child, photos of you."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1386.1999999999998,"endTime":1387.82,"body":"I mean, I love video modelling."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1387.879,"endTime":1390.945,"body":"You can video the scenario. Can be comic strip."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1391.0849999999998,"endTime":1394.605,"body":"I mean, my kids who love drawing often draw their own."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1394.605,"endTime":1397.84,"body":"As I say, I've had other children do the illustrations for the children."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1398.06,"endTime":1401.58,"body":"Children on the spectrum are visual learners, so that visualness must be there."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1401.58,"endTime":1404.985,"body":"There's no point telling them I mean, I love it when people go, I've told them a 100 times,"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1405.0649999999998,"endTime":1407.5649999999998,"body":"Just get a pen and paper. I don't think so. You can't draw."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1407.865,"endTime":1409.625,"body":"Just a stick figure will be fine."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1409.625,"endTime":1410.8249999999998,"body":"That's the beauty of the written word."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1410.8249999999998,"endTime":1412.205,"body":"You don't have to keep saying it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1412.619,"endTime":1417.759,"body":"So let's imagine we're trying to support that student putting their hand up waiting for help from the teacher."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1417.9789999999998,"endTime":1420.9399999999998,"body":"What do we do if it doesn't seem to be working for them?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1420.9399999999998,"endTime":1426.885,"body":"They're not able to follow it, or they're able to follow parts of it, or it's it's just not working."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1427.2649999999999,"endTime":1428.385,"body":"What do we do then?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1428.385,"endTime":1432.57,"body":"Well, that's a really interesting question, and I'll be honest, I'm very intuitive."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1432.629,"endTime":1434.389,"body":"I've worked with over 3,000 kids."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1434.389,"endTime":1437.4499999999998,"body":"I'm normally very quick to work out what the problem is."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1437.59,"endTime":1438.5949999999998,"body":"I hate to say it."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1438.7549999999999,"endTime":1441.635,"body":"Sometimes the teacher's expecting the kid to wait for too long."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1441.635,"endTime":1445.0949999999998,"body":"Like, sometimes it's more the adult expectations than the child's."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1445.715,"endTime":1450.9499999999998,"body":"So, like, I had a child where what would happen by the time the teacher came over because of"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1450.9499999999998,"endTime":1454.01,"body":"his executive functioning, he couldn't remember the question."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1454.1499999999999,"endTime":1458.385,"body":"So the teacher would finally come and he'd lost it and he couldn't remember what he wanted,"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1458.385,"endTime":1465.365,"body":"and so what in his situation, we changed it to, while I'm waiting for the teacher, I can write down my question."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1466.25,"endTime":1467.85,"body":"I can circle my problem."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1467.85,"endTime":1473.37,"body":"So we gave him more actions to do because he just didn't read the room, the teacher would be"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1473.37,"endTime":1477.0449999999998,"body":"busy with a maths group on the ground and was gonna be 5 minutes."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1477.5049999999999,"endTime":1483.8249999999998,"body":"The other thing we did with him, which was really powerful, we asked other students if he had"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1483.8249999999998,"endTime":1486.84,"body":"his hand up to help because this is inclusion. Right?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1486.84,"endTime":1492.635,"body":"So we'd say, you know, if you see Jack with his hand up and you know the teacher's busy, we're"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1492.635,"endTime":1496.955,"body":"trying to help him ask for help, how about you go and help him?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1496.955,"endTime":1501.5149999999999,"body":"So we had to do those little tweaks in and it took a little while to get it right, so I would"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1501.5149999999999,"endTime":1508.0,"body":"be looking at, you know, all of those things, but sometimes it's, those underlying differences"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1508.2199999999998,"endTime":1509.475,"body":"that are the problem with the script."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1509.475,"endTime":1514.0349999999999,"body":"We're writing it like a neurotypical person, not putting ourselves in the neurodiverse child's shoes."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1514.0349999999999,"endTime":1520.1999999999998,"body":"Can you give me a real world example of a success story that you've had using a social script,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1520.4199999999998,"endTime":1524.1999999999998,"body":"not a social story, to help a child overcome a barrier in school?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1524.26,"endTime":1526.3249999999998,"body":"Well, asking for help worked really well."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1526.644,"endTime":1532.725,"body":"I think the biggest one is where people have written rules like no hitting, no biting, where"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1532.725,"endTime":1536.4499999999998,"body":"we actually replace it with, you know, asking for help."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1536.59,"endTime":1537.81,"body":"I just do it intuitively."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1537.9499999999998,"endTime":1539.31,"body":"Oh, I'll tell you a really good one."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1539.31,"endTime":1545.0949999999998,"body":"So I had a little boy who the teachers kept saying he didn't look sorry, and can you understand,"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1545.0949999999998,"endTime":1549.514,"body":"like, that people expect to look when people hurt each other or do the wrong thing."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1549.654,"endTime":1553.76,"body":"So he wrote a social script for him about sorry plus an action."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1553.8999999999999,"endTime":1558.48,"body":"So when you hurt someone or someone's upset, you need to do sorry plus an action."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1558.6999999999998,"endTime":1560.1399999999999,"body":"So we talked about the actions."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1560.1399999999999,"endTime":1567.885,"body":"It might be getting a tissue, getting a teacher, doing all these things, and his facial expressions did not change."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1567.885,"endTime":1574.82,"body":"But because he did the action to fix up the problem, teachers stop saying he doesn't look sorry."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1574.8799999999999,"endTime":1580.24,"body":"And it it's so simple, and this is the thing, they're not hard, but it gave him the social knowledge"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1580.24,"endTime":1585.985,"body":"that when you hurt someone or if you upset somebody or if you interrupt the teacher, actually"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1585.985,"endTime":1589.9299999999998,"body":"saying, oh, sorry, and then putting your hand up is the action."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1589.9299999999998,"endTime":1593.79,"body":"You know, just say it's little things rather than just going sorry and then he'd be talking."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1595.61,"endTime":1598.8449999999998,"body":"We have a lot of parents in the audience as well as teachers."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1599.2649999999999,"endTime":1604.185,"body":"How could parents use this approach at home to support kids?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1604.185,"endTime":1607.4199999999998,"body":"Because there's more to being in society than just being in school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1607.4199999999998,"endTime":1609.5,"body":"There's a lot of society that's nothing to do with school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1609.5,"endTime":1614.5249999999999,"body":"And parents, I know they they write and say, you know, we have difficulties going out to shops"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1614.5249999999999,"endTime":1616.7839999999999,"body":"or parties or doing new things."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1617.0049999999999,"endTime":1619.425,"body":"I'm just wondering how parents could use this."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1619.645,"endTime":1623.4599999999998,"body":"So with parents, absolutely. I use them all the time."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1623.4599999999998,"endTime":1625.1399999999999,"body":"Like, some of your parents are like this one."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1625.1399999999999,"endTime":1626.74,"body":"This is an Anna Talaman's one."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1626.74,"endTime":1632.28,"body":"So her son, Daniel, with the hugging and nonna, she had a huge problem with him staying in his bedroom."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1632.5249999999999,"endTime":1634.685,"body":"So and he he's no good sleeper."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1634.685,"endTime":1638.2849999999999,"body":"A lot of our ADHD, ASD, comorbidity kids don't sleep well."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1638.2849999999999,"endTime":1641.1,"body":"So she knew he didn't sleep well, but she needed her sleep."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1641.1799999999998,"endTime":1644.48,"body":"So she wrote a social script about mum needs her sleep."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1644.78,"endTime":1648.86,"body":"If you wake up in the night, you're allowed to go to the toilet, get a drink, play with your"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1648.86,"endTime":1651.955,"body":"Lego, but you need to let mum have her sleep."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1652.3349999999998,"endTime":1656.5749999999998,"body":"You have to wait for mum to wake up and she will come to you in the morning."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1656.5749999999998,"endTime":1659.32,"body":"Well, he read the script and most of it he followed."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1659.32,"endTime":1663.4789999999998,"body":"But this one day, he was desperate, obviously, for her to wake up."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1663.4789999999998,"endTime":1667.4989999999998,"body":"So Anna wakes up, and he's standing, looking over her."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1668.7849999999999,"endTime":1671.665,"body":"Have you seen the film paranormal activity? Scariest thing ever."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1671.665,"endTime":1676.165,"body":"Anna said, even if when it's your own kid standing, looking over her."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1677.6999999999998,"endTime":1682.98,"body":"Then she had to, like, practice that, like, saying in your own room, but that can be a real problem for parents."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1682.98,"endTime":1685.0249999999999,"body":"So, like, writing a social script like that."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1685.185,"endTime":1688.0649999999998,"body":"Christmases, birthdays, writing social stories."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1688.0649999999998,"endTime":1691.8249999999998,"body":"But what I find with those is making sure the child has a job at those things."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1691.8249999999998,"endTime":1696.2199999999998,"body":"For example, if they're going to the birthday party, their job might be to hand things around,"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1696.28,"endTime":1700.78,"body":"beat on the music, but also saying if everyone gets overwhelmed at parties."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1701.185,"endTime":1703.985,"body":"So, Simon, if you're overwhelmed at a party, what would you do?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1703.985,"endTime":1706.465,"body":"In the real world, I stick closely to my wife."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1706.465,"endTime":1708.26,"body":"And she does all the talking"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1708.4199999999998,"endTime":1711.86,"body":"Especially where there are people that I don't know, big parties with people I don't know."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1711.86,"endTime":1713.54,"body":"I I shrink away from those."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1713.54,"endTime":1717.8049999999998,"body":"I I certainly let my wife take the lead and hide in her shadow. That's my strategy."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1717.945,"endTime":1719.865,"body":"Well, did you know a lot of people go to the toilet?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1719.865,"endTime":1720.985,"body":"Because it's a quiet room"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1721.145,"endTime":1721.465,"body":"Alright."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1721.5449999999998,"endTime":1726.76,"body":"Where you can go and get some time away from people, and it's socially appropriate to say I'm"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1726.76,"endTime":1728.1399999999999,"body":"just gonna go to the toilet."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1728.1999999999998,"endTime":1734.78,"body":"So saying to children, if you need some time on your own, you could go to the toilet for 5 minutes and then come back."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1734.965,"endTime":1740.725,"body":"If you still need time on your own, the other thing people especially young children, reading a book."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1740.725,"endTime":1745.36,"body":"People think, oh, aren't they cute reading a book? Isn't that adorable? They're a bookworm."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1745.8999999999999,"endTime":1749.905,"body":"No one questions a child not joining in again if they're reading a book."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1749.985,"endTime":1755.2649999999999,"body":"So we're gonna take a book with us and if you need to read your book, you can go and read your"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1755.2649999999999,"endTime":1759.769,"body":"book because families get exhausted having to explain their children's behaviour all the time."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1759.769,"endTime":1765.37,"body":"So I know it's not ideal, but I just know my little tricks and one of them is go to the toilet"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1765.37,"endTime":1770.965,"body":"for 5 minutes, read a book and, you know, letting the other one a lot of families do when they're"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1770.965,"endTime":1773.6499999999999,"body":"leaving a party, they say goodbye 10 times."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1773.73,"endTime":1778.2099999999998,"body":"And so they'd say to the child, we're leaving, and then half an hour later they haven't left. Right?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1778.2099999999998,"endTime":1778.6899999999998,"body":"Yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1778.6899999999998,"endTime":1782.4499999999998,"body":"So this is why the kid doesn't wanna go because you go, oh, we're going, we're going."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1782.4499999999998,"endTime":1787.465,"body":"Like, if you're leaving you say goodbye and we will be in the car within 5 minutes."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1787.465,"endTime":1791.404,"body":"Don't tell the child they're leaving till you're actually leaving, like do all your goodbyes first."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1791.945,"endTime":1796.6299999999999,"body":"So you might have a social script about when we leave, who do we have to say thank you to?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1796.6299999999999,"endTime":1802.205,"body":"We have to say thank you to grandma, grandpa, auntie Susan, and we leave. Does that make sense?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1802.205,"endTime":1808.62,"body":"Absolutely. Sue, as promised, this has been super practical, stuff we can use in the real world."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1808.62,"endTime":1809.02,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1809.02,"endTime":1813.26,"body":"If you're a teacher or a parent who's listening to this podcast, what's the first step you can"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1813.26,"endTime":1817.915,"body":"take today to start supporting your students or your own children with social scripts?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1818.215,"endTime":1822.135,"body":"Really, when you see a behaviour, ask yourself what is the need?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1822.135,"endTime":1824.29,"body":"What knowledge doesn't this child have?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1824.769,"endTime":1827.269,"body":"How can I support them solve the problem?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1827.81,"endTime":1832.55,"body":"Because so often it's giving them the skills and knowledge to support that problem."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1832.935,"endTime":1836.455,"body":"And if any of your listeners have a stack, they're welcome to email me."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1836.455,"endTime":1840.375,"body":"I love getting emails and like helping, so they are welcome to email me."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1840.375,"endTime":1842.235,"body":"It keeps me honest, that's what I say."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1842.615,"endTime":1845.8799999999999,"body":"So Sue, how do our, listeners find out more about you and your resources?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1845.8799999999999,"endTime":1848.54,"body":"How to how can they follow you, get in touch with you, that kind of thing?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1848.76,"endTime":1855.365,"body":"Yeah. So social media, it's just Sue Larkey, but it's l a r k e y on Facebook and Instagram,"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1855.985,"endTime":1860.59,"body":"or they can go to my website, which is just suelarkey.com.au."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1861.05,"endTime":1864.4089999999999,"body":"They're not very creative, and the podcast name is Sue Larkey too. I know."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1864.4089999999999,"endTime":1866.1899999999998,"body":"I'm I think I'm Oprah, I think."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1868.01,"endTime":1869.5049999999999,"body":"I was gonna say don't overthink it."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1869.745,"endTime":1870.245,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1870.705,"endTime":1872.385,"body":"And I can put a link in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1872.385,"endTime":1876.3249999999998,"body":"So if people are listening to this now and they want to see and visualize it for themselves,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1876.629,"endTime":1878.9499999999998,"body":"I'll put a direct link in the episode description."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1878.9499999999998,"endTime":1881.85,"body":"So if you're listening to this podcast, all you have to do is tap on the episode."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1882.07,"endTime":1886.8449999999998,"body":"There's usually an information button or a more button or something like that, and you'll find a a direct link"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1887.0049999999999,"endTime":1887.165,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1887.245,"endTime":1889.425,"body":"To Sue's website where you can get a hold of that."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1889.645,"endTime":1891.8249999999998,"body":"Finally, Sue, we ask this of all our guests."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1891.885,"endTime":1896.6,"body":"Who is the key figure that's influenced you, or what's the key book that you've read that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1896.6,"endTime":1899.6599999999999,"body":"had the biggest impact on your approach to working with kids?"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1900.04,"endTime":1904.0649999999998,"body":"Now you've got to know me over the last half an hour, you know I'm not going to give you one, don't you?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1905.725,"endTime":1905.965,"body":"Yes"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1905.965,"endTime":1910.9199999999998,"body":"So I thought it was only fair, I had a lived experience, which is Temple Grandin, who influenced"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1911.06,"endTime":1915.9399999999998,"body":"my masters on using visuals and her book Thinking in Pictures had just come out."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1915.9399999999998,"endTime":1920.5849999999998,"body":"Would you believe when when the book came out it took 3 months to get shipped to Australia 30"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1920.5849999999998,"endTime":1926.8,"body":"years ago and I was doing my masters, but that Temple has been my mentor, Her if any parents"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1926.8,"endTime":1929.62,"body":"don't know Temple, please go and look Temple up."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1930.0,"endTime":1932.5,"body":"Her tele movie is worth watching."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1932.56,"endTime":1938.244,"body":"It rotates which free one it's on, but Temple Grandin is a must, must, must do."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1938.244,"endTime":1943.605,"body":"But it's funny, I had forgotten all about this author because I suspect she's not on earth anymore"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1943.605,"endTime":1949.11,"body":"because I tried to look up today, that there was a lady called Kathleen Quill who again when"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1949.11,"endTime":1954.07,"body":"I was doing my master's in special ed wrote a book teaching children with autism strategies"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1954.07,"endTime":1959.0149999999999,"body":"to enhance communication and socialisation and I had forgotten all about it."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1959.0149999999999,"endTime":1964.24,"body":"Again, I actually was doing my masters, I found some papers she'd written and I wrote her a"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1964.24,"endTime":1967.54,"body":"handwritten letter back in the day, and she sent me this book complimentary."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1968.32,"endTime":1974.705,"body":"I'd sort of forgotten about it until you asked that question, and she was a mentor from afar for me."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1974.705,"endTime":1976.625,"body":"And I think books can be your mentor."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1976.625,"endTime":1981.3899999999999,"body":"You don't have to know the person you or listening to a podcast just reassures you and keeps"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1981.3899999999999,"endTime":1987.55,"body":"you on the right track, but both Temple and Kathleen were fundamentally my masters, my doctorate,"},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":1987.55,"endTime":1988.83,"body":"and my passion for helping."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1988.83,"endTime":1992.655,"body":"It's amazing how little interactions like that can have a huge impact on our lives, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1992.655,"endTime":1994.435,"body":"Sue, I have loved this."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1994.655,"endTime":1996.8349999999998,"body":"I wish we had more time, but we don't."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1996.975,"endTime":1998.55,"body":"Thank you for being on the show today."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1998.55,"endTime":2001.83,"body":"I'm sure everyone listening has learned so much. I know I have."},{"speaker":"Sue Larkey","startTime":2001.83,"endTime":2004.25,"body":"Oh, thank you so much. I really appreciate it."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":2004.4699999999998,"endTime":2010.675,"body":"Wow. Lots of useful ideas and strategies there that anybody can use in their classroom straight away."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2010.894,"endTime":2012.8149999999998,"body":"Yeah. A 100%. Sue's super engaging."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2012.8149999999998,"endTime":2015.154,"body":"It was I really enjoyed recording that interview, actually."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2015.28,"endTime":2020.6599999999999,"body":"And I'll put a direct link to Sue's website and social media in the episode description and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2020.8,"endTime":2024.1599999999999,"body":"the link to that all important social scripts explainer."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2024.1599999999999,"endTime":2026.625,"body":"All you gotta do is tap directly through."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":2026.625,"endTime":2031.685,"body":"And I recommend that you do I actually follow Sue on social media, and she's brilliant."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":2031.745,"endTime":2033.445,"body":"I'm a really big fan, definitely."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2033.9699999999998,"endTime":2035.649,"body":"And that's all we've got time for today."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2035.649,"endTime":2037.6699999999998,"body":"I hope you found today's interview helpful."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2037.9699999999998,"endTime":2040.87,"body":"If you have, remember to share it with your friends and colleagues."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2041.3049999999998,"endTime":2046.3449999999998,"body":"After all, that's probably how you came across the podcast in the first place from someone sharing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2046.3449999999998,"endTime":2049.065,"body":"it on social media or messaging you a link."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2049.065,"endTime":2055.31,"body":"So pass on the love and share it on your social media feed with any of your friends who benefit from hearing it."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":2055.31,"endTime":2059.245,"body":"And we hope you have a great week, and we're looking forward to seeing you next time on the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":2059.245,"endTime":2062.625,"body":"next episode of School Behaviour Secrets. Bye for now."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2062.685,"endTime":2063.185,"body":"Bye."}]}