{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.50999999999999,"endTime":93.91,"body":"We want our schools to be welcoming, inclusive places where everyone feels okay about being in school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":93.91,"endTime":96.88999999999999,"body":"But for many autistic pupils, that isn't the case."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":97.234,"endTime":103.875,"body":"So how do we help, neurodiverse pupils understand and take control of their mental health and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":103.875,"endTime":109.57,"body":"well-being, feel valued and heard by their peers, and, b, okay in school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":109.57,"endTime":114.28899999999999,"body":"That's the focus of this episode where we interview Joss Lambert and Lily Ashby from the autistic"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":114.28899999999999,"endTime":119.005,"body":"and okay program, and they explain the challenges faced by our neurodiverse students and how"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":119.005,"endTime":124.75999999999999,"body":"to set up a whole school peer led approach to helping autistic pupils feel accepted and understood."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":124.82,"endTime":129.0,"body":"This is an important conversation, so you won't want to miss it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":129.78,"endTime":132.565,"body":"Welcome to the School Behaviour Secrets podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":132.965,"endTime":134.505,"body":"I'm your host, Simon Currigan."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":134.565,"endTime":140.08499999999998,"body":"My cohost is Emma Shackleton, and we're obsessed with helping teachers, school leaders, parents,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":140.08499999999998,"endTime":144.2,"body":"and, of course, students when classroom behaviour gets in the way of success."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":144.339,"endTime":148.965,"body":"We're gonna share the tried and tested secrets to classroom management, behavioural special needs,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":149.125,"endTime":154.505,"body":"whole school strategy, and more, all with the aim of helping your students reach their true potential."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":154.805,"endTime":160.6,"body":"Plus, we'll be letting you eavesdrop on our conversations with thought leaders from around the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":160.66,"endTime":165.38,"body":"So you'll get to hear the latest evidence based strategies before anyone else."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":165.38,"endTime":170.295,"body":"This is the School Behaviour Secrets podcast. Hi there."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":170.295,"endTime":173.995,"body":"My name is Simon Currigan, and welcome to another episode of School Behaviour Secrets."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":174.44,"endTime":179.899,"body":"While other educational podcasts are like fine food to the dinner party and exquisite beef wellington,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":179.959,"endTime":187.594,"body":"a lasagna cooked with finely balanced herbs and garlic, or a gooey melt in the middle chocolate pudding cooked to perfection."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":187.594,"endTime":189.435,"body":"A bit more like a cheese fondue."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":189.435,"endTime":190.475,"body":"No one asked for it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":190.475,"endTime":191.81,"body":"No one's happy to see us."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":191.89,"endTime":197.89,"body":"I'm joined by my cohost, Emma Shackleton, today who I'm sure you'd welcome at any dinner party. Hi, Emma."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":197.89,"endTime":198.70999999999998,"body":"Hi, Simon."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":198.905,"endTime":204.125,"body":"I'd love to start today's show by offering you some fondue and asking you a question. Is that alright?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":204.185,"endTime":205.48399999999998,"body":"Of course. Go ahead."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":206.024,"endTime":210.14999999999998,"body":"Right. So the question is and this is another survey one. Right? This is interesting."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":210.20999999999998,"endTime":217.475,"body":"According to YouGov Research, both generation x and baby boomers both put spending time with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":217.475,"endTime":220.535,"body":"friends as their top social activity."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":220.915,"endTime":226.51999999999998,"body":"But what did millennials say? Was it the same? Was it something different?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":226.73999999999998,"endTime":229.64,"body":"And if it was something different, what do you think it was?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":229.94,"endTime":238.305,"body":"Okay. So millennials, that's people born between 1981 1986, also known as generation y."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":238.445,"endTime":239.93,"body":"You've done your research on this."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":240.32999999999998,"endTime":241.29,"body":"I had to Google that!"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":241.29,"endTime":243.15,"body":"Obviously, I didn't just know that."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":244.57,"endTime":251.14499999999998,"body":"I think they would still rate spending time with friends highly, but I think that the way they"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":251.14499999999998,"endTime":253.244,"body":"spend time with their friends is different."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":253.464,"endTime":260.97,"body":"So they're probably not even in the same room, so maybe connecting through their phones or by playing video games together."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":261.27,"endTime":263.75,"body":"I found this really interesting, and you're pretty close to it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":263.75,"endTime":271.625,"body":"Millennials went with listening to music, then using the Internet, and then watching movies at home."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":271.625,"endTime":277.07,"body":"And in fact, spending time with friends, I guess, online or offline, was actually down at number"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":277.07,"endTime":282.244,"body":"7 in the poll, which I think, like you said, reflects a change in how we communicate and kind"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":282.244,"endTime":284.265,"body":"of interact and spend our time."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":284.405,"endTime":286.42499999999995,"body":"And why millennials are so sad?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":287.28499999999997,"endTime":291.225,"body":"That's probably house prices, isn't it? Sorry, millennials."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":291.48,"endTime":293.5,"body":"Oh, wow. That's a bit scary, actually."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":293.64,"endTime":295.26,"body":"What's your point with the survey?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":295.32,"endTime":297.5,"body":"How is it related to today's episode?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":297.79999999999995,"endTime":303.885,"body":"Okay. So I think this kind of reflects how groups of people are different in how comfortable"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":303.945,"endTime":306.04499999999996,"body":"and enjoyable they find social situations."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":306.505,"endTime":313.039,"body":"And this is an example of maybe of how millennials and Gen zed are communicating more on mobile"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":313.039,"endTime":316.02,"body":"devices and on the Internet than through in person contact."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":316.485,"endTime":322.08500000000004,"body":"And today, we're going to share my interview with Joss Lambert and Lily Ashby from ambitious"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":322.08500000000004,"endTime":328.59000000000003,"body":"about autism, where we discuss how the social environment of school can actually be, for some"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":328.59000000000003,"endTime":334.37,"body":"students, very wearing and really exhausting, even intimidating, especially for many autistic pupils."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":334.815,"endTime":340.33500000000004,"body":"And we talk about what we can do as teachers and school leaders systematically at a whole school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":340.33500000000004,"endTime":346.64,"body":"level to support those students and make them feel valued and accepted and how their free autistic"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":346.64,"endTime":348.41999999999996,"body":"and okay program can help."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":348.48,"endTime":350.82000000000005,"body":"That sounds like a really important conversation."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":351.03999999999996,"endTime":356.57500000000005,"body":"But before we get into that, how about doing a friend or colleague a favour by sharing the link"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":356.57500000000005,"endTime":361.875,"body":"to School Behaviour Secrets podcast and letting them in on all of the good stuff too."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":362.1,"endTime":366.1,"body":"All you've got to do is open your podcast app and click the share button."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":366.1,"endTime":370.67999999999995,"body":"And by the magic of technology, they too will be able to listen to the show."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":370.71500000000003,"endTime":376.394,"body":"It's a 10 second job that could really help a friend out and mean that they and the children"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":376.394,"endTime":380.095,"body":"in their care benefit as well. Thank you for sharing."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":380.6,"endTime":385.48,"body":"And, look, while you've got your podcast app open, obviously, it makes sense to subscribe and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":385.48,"endTime":388.93999999999994,"body":"follow School Behaviour Secrets so you never miss another episode."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":389.30499999999995,"endTime":394.58500000000004,"body":"If you're working with pupils with SEMH needs and you're not sure why they're behaving that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":394.58500000000004,"endTime":397.32500000000005,"body":"way, we've got a download that can help."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":397.55999999999995,"endTime":404.53999999999996,"body":"It's called the SEND handbook and it helps you to link the behaviors that you're seeing in class"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":404.905,"endTime":410.44500000000005,"body":"to possible underlying causes, like trauma, ADHD, and autism."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":411.06499999999994,"endTime":417.23,"body":"It also comes with lots of helpful fact sheets and strategies to support children with a range of needs."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":417.77,"endTime":420.51,"body":"Can I throw in an interesting fact at this point?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":421.37,"endTime":427.725,"body":"At the time of recording, it's been downloaded over 85,000 times."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":427.94500000000005,"endTime":428.68499999999995,"body":"The handbook?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":429.145,"endTime":430.20500000000004,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":430.905,"endTime":438.97,"body":"Wow. So if you want to join the ranks of over 85,000 of your fellow educators, go and grab your"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":438.97,"endTime":440.83000000000004,"body":"free copy of the handbook today."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":440.905,"endTime":443.144,"body":"We'll put a link in the episode description."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":443.144,"endTime":449.93999999999994,"body":"So all you've got to do is open up your podcast app, check the description, and tap directly through."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":450.0,"endTime":452.41999999999996,"body":"If you haven't done that already, do it today."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":452.48,"endTime":454.26,"body":"Even better, do it now."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":454.64,"endTime":459.93499999999995,"body":"And here's Simon's interview with Joss and Lily about the autistic and ok program."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":460.875,"endTime":465.855,"body":"It's my great pleasure to welcome Joss Lambert and Lily Ashby to the show today."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":466.28,"endTime":469.4,"body":"Joss works for the national charity Ambitious about Autism."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":469.4,"endTime":474.81499999999994,"body":"He is project officer on the charity's autistic and ok program, a preventative mental health"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":474.81499999999994,"endTime":477.07500000000005,"body":"program for autistic secondary school pupils."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":477.29499999999996,"endTime":482.65,"body":"Joss's younger brother, Adam, is autistic, and he's passionate about advocating for the acceptance"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":482.78999999999996,"endTime":485.68999999999994,"body":"of autistic young people in wider society."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":485.98900000000003,"endTime":491.33500000000004,"body":"Lily is 17 years old, and she's an autistic youth program ambassador for autistic and ok."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":491.33500000000004,"endTime":497.255,"body":"She's currently in 6th form in Greater London where she enjoys pursuing her passion of product design."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":497.255,"endTime":504.38,"body":"In her spare time, she loves to play with her dog, Aspen, and is currently really enjoying creating her own lino prints."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":504.6,"endTime":507.58000000000004,"body":"Welcome to you both, and thanks for joining us on this episode."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":507.64,"endTime":509.15999999999997,"body":"Thank you, Simon. Lovely to be with you."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":509.15999999999997,"endTime":510.31499999999994,"body":"Thank you. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":510.31499999999994,"endTime":517.375,"body":"So before we talk about what the program actually is, I'm interested in what prompted your organization"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":517.435,"endTime":519.454,"body":"to start the autistic and ok program."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":519.73,"endTime":524.71,"body":"What were you seeing in school and what were the young people you were working with experiencing?"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":525.25,"endTime":530.795,"body":"Yeah so we created the autistic and ok program as we're seeing a real need for mental health"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":530.795,"endTime":535.215,"body":"support for autistic young people in schools across the country and this is really demonstrated"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":535.275,"endTime":536.95,"body":"in issues such as absenteeism."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":537.57,"endTime":543.81,"body":"So if we take secondary state schools as an example, there are over 70,000 autistic young people"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":543.89,"endTime":549.635,"body":"autistic pupils in in secondary schools and over 20,000 of these are persistently absent from"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":549.635,"endTime":553.234,"body":"school, which is defined as missing, more than 10% of school."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":553.234,"endTime":557.77,"body":"And we also know more generally that 4 and 5 autistic young people tell us that they've experienced"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":557.77,"endTime":560.11,"body":"mental health issues, they've gone through struggles."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":560.25,"endTime":565.455,"body":"What these figures paint a picture of is that the vast majority of autistic pupils are fortunately"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":565.515,"endTime":570.715,"body":"are not feeling okay in school, and lots of them are really struggling, lots of them are missing"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":570.715,"endTime":574.91,"body":"large chunks of school, they're missing GCSEs, A levels, really important milestones."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":575.37,"endTime":577.949,"body":"And also we we know this can have an impact socially."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":578.169,"endTime":583.415,"body":"So obviously not being with your peers, with your friends, can lead to isolation, can lead to"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":583.415,"endTime":585.735,"body":"feelings of feeling left out that kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":585.735,"endTime":589.3,"body":"I was gonna say this must lead to lots of feelings of kind of like anxiety and stress."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":589.3,"endTime":591.88,"body":"This is an important time in children's kind of social development."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":592.1,"endTime":595.0,"body":"Yeah. It's a massive time for that socially as well as academically."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":595.22,"endTime":599.995,"body":"And I think that's the impact it's having on young people's mental health and the sort of reasons"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":599.995,"endTime":602.575,"body":"behind why there can be these high rates of absences."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":602.875,"endTime":607.4200000000001,"body":"There are a few reasons really, a lack of understanding and support from teachers and that isn't"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":607.64,"endTime":611.72,"body":"like willfully on teachers part, bullying and stigma from other peers and other young people"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":611.72,"endTime":615.6650000000001,"body":"at school that aren't autistic that might not have as much knowledge about autism or there might"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":615.6650000000001,"endTime":616.705,"body":"be some stigma around it."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":616.705,"endTime":622.145,"body":"And then also anxiety caused by sort of sensory environment at school, the overwhelming nature"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":622.145,"endTime":627.09,"body":"of being at school at times, for example like an assembly hall or in a canteen at lunchtime."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":627.309,"endTime":632.975,"body":"So yeah we know that teachers really want that support and they want to do the best for all peoples including autistic peoples."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":632.975,"endTime":635.375,"body":"But many simply just don't have the resources."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":635.375,"endTime":638.895,"body":"They don't have the capacity, the time to do so."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":638.895,"endTime":643.6700000000001,"body":"So that's one of the main reasons why we created this program for pupils and teachers alike."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":643.8100000000001,"endTime":650.4150000000001,"body":"But I would also say that just generally, the school environment is very overwhelming and overstimulating"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":650.874,"endTime":657.135,"body":"for autistic pupils, especially when you have autistic pupils who are highly masking."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":657.94,"endTime":664.12,"body":"So who are camouflage their autistic traits effectively to fit in because they feel like they need to fit in."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":664.4200000000001,"endTime":667.005,"body":"Otherwise, there's the worry of being bullied, etcetera."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":667.945,"endTime":674.285,"body":"And that's all very tiring and making it to the end of the day, it feels like a mountain away."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":674.4300000000001,"endTime":678.59,"body":"And there isn't much support available to deal with that."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":678.59,"endTime":683.885,"body":"And especially with the, like, health care professionals in school, like nurses aren't really"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":683.885,"endTime":686.465,"body":"trained how to deal with autistic burnout."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":686.845,"endTime":695.49,"body":"So it can be very difficult in terms of feeling understood and also the then not trying to just get out of school."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":695.49,"endTime":698.71,"body":"It's because they physically can't deal with the school environment."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":699.225,"endTime":702.905,"body":"And I guess that's gotta take its toll when you get back home."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":702.905,"endTime":707.333,"body":"If you're holding in or you're trying to manage these anxieties if you've got sensory sensitivity,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":707.333,"endTime":709.288,"body":"school is a difficult place to be if you're trying to hold all that together."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":709.288,"endTime":713.22,"body":"When you get home, that's gonna have an impact in on your home life as well.."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":716.465,"endTime":719.044,"body":"Yeah It can make for difficult home life as well."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":719.585,"endTime":725.14,"body":"And, also, it means that, like, hobbies that you have at home or anything that you'd like to"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":725.14,"endTime":729.14,"body":"do extra curricular get, like, pushed aside because you're completely tired out."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":729.14,"endTime":735.4250000000001,"body":"So it means that you're quite isolated because you don't get to go to the other extracurricular"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":735.8050000000001,"endTime":740.945,"body":"activities and socialize, which are already very tiring on its own."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":741.4200000000001,"endTime":745.2,"body":"But having to do that after school is just really difficult."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":745.34,"endTime":747.28,"body":"That makes total sense. Total sense."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":747.82,"endTime":749.34,"body":"So what is the goal?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":749.34,"endTime":753.535,"body":"What's the purpose of your autistic and ok program?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":753.674,"endTime":755.595,"body":"Specifically, what are you aiming to achieve?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":755.595,"endTime":758.72,"body":"We've we've defined the problem and the issues that we're seeing in school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":758.72,"endTime":762.1800000000001,"body":"Where is autistic and ok hoping to take things to?"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":762.4,"endTime":768.145,"body":"Yeah. So I guess the main aim of the program is to empower autistic pupils to be able to better"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":768.145,"endTime":772.225,"body":"manage their own mental health and well-being before reaching that kind of crisis point."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":772.225,"endTime":777.45,"body":"So the program provides schools with an educational toolkit and this is essentially like a sort of pack of resources."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":777.91,"endTime":782.33,"body":"And these resources encompass a range of different things, but they're all designed at helping"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":782.47,"endTime":786.835,"body":"autistic peoples better able to understand and look after their own mental health, and so giving"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":786.835,"endTime":789.155,"body":"them the tools and techniques that work best for them."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":789.155,"endTime":792.615,"body":"So it's it's quite tailored to the individual. It's quite adaptable."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":792.6750000000001,"endTime":797.36,"body":"But we also wanna give autistic young people the space to discuss with their peers and and explore"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":797.36,"endTime":803.0550000000001,"body":"these mental health topics that are covered in the sessions and, like, foster a network of support."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":803.115,"endTime":808.635,"body":"So a big part of the program is connecting with peers and across year groups, so we think that's"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":808.635,"endTime":811.0550000000001,"body":"a really sort of positive outcome from the program."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":811.115,"endTime":816.91,"body":"Another main aim of the program is to kind of foster a wider school community attitude in the"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":816.91,"endTime":820.2900000000001,"body":"wider school community of acceptance towards autistic people."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":820.525,"endTime":825.345,"body":"So this can be across obviously the majority in mainstream schools who would be neurotypical"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":825.485,"endTime":830.3050000000001,"body":"or non autistic, might not have an understanding of autism, might not feel like they know anyone who's autistic."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":830.4300000000001,"endTime":834.13,"body":"So really bridging that gap of understanding we feel it will go a long way."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":834.19,"endTime":836.75,"body":"Also supporting teachers, obviously parents."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":836.75,"endTime":842.104,"body":"So yeah, we really hope that as a sort of secondary aim that it breaks down stigma and and builds"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":842.104,"endTime":843.945,"body":"understanding around autism as well."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":843.945,"endTime":845.945,"body":"So it's quite a broad based program that is."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":845.945,"endTime":849.82,"body":"It's giving individuals skills to manage your life, which is super important because you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":849.82,"endTime":854.22,"body":"gonna go out as an adult, and you're going to need those skills, you know, in the big wide world,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":854.22,"endTime":861.145,"body":"but also creating and, like you said, fostering that sort of whole school community sense of we're inclusive. Everyone's important."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":861.145,"endTime":862.585,"body":"We all take care of each other."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":862.585,"endTime":866.9300000000001,"body":"How does that program work in a sort of practical day to day sense?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":866.99,"endTime":872.095,"body":"For people listening, I want them to be able to imagine what it actually looks like in a classroom."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":872.095,"endTime":874.815,"body":"What would we see happening in classrooms or across schools?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":874.815,"endTime":879.635,"body":"And I guess from both here , the adult, the teacher's perspective, and the student's perspective."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":879.78,"endTime":882.82,"body":"What is it like to implement and what is it like to participate in?"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":882.82,"endTime":886.9,"body":"Of course. Yeah. So the sort of core content of the program is peer led sessions."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":886.9,"endTime":889.475,"body":"So these are 4 sessions each an hour long."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":889.475,"endTime":894.754,"body":"They are adaptable and can be fit into the school curriculum in sort of 2 30 minute blocks or"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":894.754,"endTime":896.7900000000001,"body":"in sort of short 45 minute sessions."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":896.7900000000001,"endTime":900.95,"body":"And so these sessions are designed to be delivered by autistic pupils in the older years."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":900.95,"endTime":902.5500000000001,"body":"So this is years 10 and above."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":902.5500000000001,"endTime":906.815,"body":"Peer facilitator role, the sort of leadership role in these sessions is aimed at maybe year"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":906.815,"endTime":912.71,"body":"12, 13 students, schools that don't have that sick form years 10 to 11, and they deliver these"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":912.71,"endTime":915.749,"body":"sessions to younger autistic pupils in the school."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":915.749,"endTime":919.629,"body":"So that's the sort of, like, from a student's perspective, the school SENCO or like the sort"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":919.629,"endTime":924.054,"body":"of health and well-being lead would be the people we feel are best placed to kind of lead this"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":924.054,"endTime":929.595,"body":"program, support the peer facilitators, and support actually the younger people attending these sessions."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":929.7900000000001,"endTime":936.35,"body":"The 4 sessions are on understanding and managing anxiety, OCD, depression, and there's also"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":936.35,"endTime":939.09,"body":"a side topic kind of on mental health and bullying."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":939.095,"endTime":942.215,"body":"As we know bullying has an impact on lots of these mental health."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":942.215,"endTime":947.28,"body":"Each of the sessions that come with powerpoint slides, session plans for the peer PFS facilitators"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":947.28,"endTime":951.6,"body":"to be able to review and know what they're delivering, and also like worksheets and resource"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":951.6,"endTime":956.874,"body":"sheets so young people can work individually in in sessions, they can engage with the activities,"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":956.874,"endTime":958.575,"body":"or they can work in small groups."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":958.7950000000001,"endTime":963.035,"body":"And so obviously while we appreciate these can be quite daunting topics, they're they're quite"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":963.035,"endTime":967.95,"body":"big topics especially for younger peoples, maybe years 7, 8, who have learned about anxiety"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":967.95,"endTime":969.65,"body":"or depression for the first time perhaps."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":969.87,"endTime":974.645,"body":"They're really based around a series of activities in each one and they're designed to get discussion"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":974.645,"endTime":979.9250000000001,"body":"going, get connections going, and people to share their experience if they feel comfortable to."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":979.9250000000001,"endTime":982.6,"body":"So we feel like they're quite interactive and and sort of fun to take part in."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":985.16,"endTime":988.2,"body":"So this is a secondary program, and a secondary pupil, so that's sort of age 11, 12, and above."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":988.2,"endTime":990.12,"body":"What kind of group size do you recommend?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":990.12,"endTime":996.015,"body":"And the children in the group, So this is, pupils with a diagnosis of autism, or or how does that work?"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":996.015,"endTime":998.355,"body":"You don't have to have a diagnosis of autism."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":998.494,"endTime":1003.5400000000001,"body":"We realize that especially even in in secondary school age, there are big barriers to getting that diagnosis."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1003.5400000000001,"endTime":1007.7,"body":"So so we we really sort of recommend that as up to the SenCos and the health, well-being lead"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1007.7,"endTime":1010.76,"body":"who they feel would be best placed to take part in these sessions."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1011.059,"endTime":1014.335,"body":"In terms of group size, we recommend not more than maybe 10."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1014.475,"endTime":1018.715,"body":"Obviously, it depends on the school's, like, number of autistic students, but these sessions"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1018.715,"endTime":1020.32,"body":"work better as kind of a smaller group."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1020.32,"endTime":1024.8999999999999,"body":"So if you had a group of 10 you can maybe have 3 groups of 3 working on the activities."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1025.2,"endTime":1030.3039999999999,"body":"That works really nicely but the pilot that we run last year had much smaller groups in there so groups of"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1030.465,"endTime":1032.624,"body":"It depends on the school as well."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1032.624,"endTime":1038.085,"body":"Most schools don't, but there are a couple of schools who already have a group that meets who"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1038.52,"endTime":1045.26,"body":"is either autistic or neurodivergent and then being able to deliver those sessions as a group that's already comfortable."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1045.955,"endTime":1050.215,"body":"But a big part of the program is to get autistic pupils together."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1050.434,"endTime":1056.52,"body":"I found when I talked to other autistic pupils that it was really beneficial to meet other people"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1056.52,"endTime":1062.145,"body":"who understood what it was like to be an autistic people in school and then being able to work"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1062.145,"endTime":1067.825,"body":"through like mental health issues together really makes a connection between other autistic"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1067.825,"endTime":1073.629,"body":"peoples and builds kind of friendships, which wouldn't have come if they hadn't met each other."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1073.629,"endTime":1079.2939999999999,"body":"That makes perfect sense because I'm guessing it helps you build a supportive social network, like, of real people."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1079.2939999999999,"endTime":1083.215,"body":"When we talk about social networks, we tend to think about Facebook by actually having face"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1083.215,"endTime":1088.5,"body":"to face contact with people that you know in in real life in school and having that network"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1088.5,"endTime":1090.58,"body":"develop actually support you in school."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1090.58,"endTime":1094.865,"body":"So in terms of the program delivery, I talked about the the 4 sessions there, and they can be"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1094.865,"endTime":1097.665,"body":"really sort of flexibly spread out over the school term."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1097.665,"endTime":1100.385,"body":"There's not like a set amount of time that needs to be delivered in."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1100.385,"endTime":1105.32,"body":"Obviously, it works to keep up momentum with the program, so delivering maybe 1 session a week"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1105.32,"endTime":1110.439,"body":"or 1 session every 2 weeks. 30 minute blocks is is really good because it feels like the group"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1110.439,"endTime":1114.745,"body":"that are maybe meeting for the first time, as I say, you split across a number of age groups"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1114.745,"endTime":1117.5449999999998,"body":"and emphasize that flexibility of the program"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1117.7849999999999,"endTime":1123.4699999999998,"body":"And with the peer facilitators who will be delivering the sessions, I've delivered one of the"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1123.4699999999998,"endTime":1125.389,"body":"sessions myself at my own school."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1125.389,"endTime":1130.9089999999999,"body":"And first of all, you get, like, an overview sheet on that session, and then you get, like,"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1130.9089999999999,"endTime":1137.0339999999999,"body":"a slideshow which accompanies the main presentation, which kind of goes through, like, the key"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1137.0339999999999,"endTime":1139.935,"body":"points and explains what each slide means."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1140.3999999999999,"endTime":1145.2199999999998,"body":"So it's very supported in a sense you're not just given a presentation and told to do it."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1145.28,"endTime":1147.86,"body":"There's a lot of support behind that."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1148.0549999999998,"endTime":1152.235,"body":"Obviously, you want the peer facilitators to lead because we want it to be peer led."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1152.2949999999998,"endTime":1158.76,"body":"Obviously, there will be teachers who can supervise, and so there's always that reassurance"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1158.98,"endTime":1163.6999999999998,"body":"that if you're becoming overwhelmed, there's no pressure to carry on doing it."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1163.6999999999998,"endTime":1166.2949999999998,"body":"You can take a break, and the teacher's there."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1166.7549999999999,"endTime":1172.8349999999998,"body":"So making sure that both the autistic peoples in the session and the peer facilitator are comfortable"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1172.8349999999998,"endTime":1178.34,"body":"with what they're doing was really important, and getting these resources done has, from my"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1178.34,"endTime":1185.205,"body":"personal experience, was really helpful to me feeling comfortable delivering it and knowing what I was doing."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1185.5849999999998,"endTime":1190.225,"body":"So it's not just supportive for the pupils attending, but if you're a pupil presenting, there's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1190.225,"endTime":1193.125,"body":"also that kind of support around you to make sure it's successful."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1193.3449999999998,"endTime":1193.8449999999998,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1194.2199999999998,"endTime":1199.58,"body":"How did you develop the program to make sure it was relevant to both?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1199.58,"endTime":1201.4199999999998,"body":"Because you you've got different stakeholders here."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1201.4199999999998,"endTime":1204.0149999999999,"body":"You've got your autistic pupils in school, obviously."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1204.475,"endTime":1209.5949999999998,"body":"And then you mentioned the wider school community, and you've got families as well."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1209.5949999999998,"endTime":1212.617,"body":"So how did you make sure it was relevant when you"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1212.617,"endTime":1214.331,"body":"were developing the program?"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1214.331,"endTime":1221.665,"body":"So when we developed the program, we had a panel created with 15 youth advisers from the ambitious"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1221.8049999999998,"endTime":1229.62,"body":"youth network to basically co develop with professionals such as educational psychologists and"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1229.62,"endTime":1235.955,"body":"experts in kind of the field of creating resources for this type of thing And making sure that"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1235.955,"endTime":1241.0949999999998,"body":"each of the topics was true to what an autistic person experienced because it's really important"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1241.155,"endTime":1246.33,"body":"with these things that it's not coming from person who's never actually experienced it."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1246.33,"endTime":1251.8049999999998,"body":"You may have a PhD studies in autism, but it doesn't mean that you'll actually be able to know"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1251.8049999999998,"endTime":1255.425,"body":"what it feels like to go through these mental health issues."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1255.5649999999998,"endTime":1262.57,"body":"So having that made it really good in terms of it staying true and relatable for the autistic"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1262.57,"endTime":1264.855,"body":"pupils who will eventually be seeing it."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1264.935,"endTime":1269.0549999999998,"body":"So we also spoke to a same co consultant, Lily touched on the experts, we spoke to them before"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1269.0549999999998,"endTime":1273.3349999999998,"body":"it was really important, as well as the sort of being led by autistic young people themselves"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1273.3349999999998,"endTime":1275.79,"body":"to have that that inside knowledge in schools."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1275.85,"endTime":1280.8899999999999,"body":"So they helped us develop, for example, a teacher training module that is part of the toolkit"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1280.8899999999999,"endTime":1285.885,"body":"resources, and this is slightly different from the sort of mental health sessions, but focuses"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1285.885,"endTime":1290.385,"body":"more on what teachers can do to support autistic young people experiencing mental health difficulties."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1290.84,"endTime":1295.08,"body":"Things like shutdowns and meltdowns and autistic burnout that Lily touched on earlier."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1295.08,"endTime":1300.475,"body":"So really specific resources for teachers to improve their knowledge of autism as I mentioned earlier."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1300.475,"endTime":1303.7749999999999,"body":"So this we hope is really sort of useful that CPD training module."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1303.995,"endTime":1311.1799999999998,"body":"Also in the toolkit there's a assembly video which kind of goes through the main points in terms"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1311.1799999999998,"endTime":1317.5849999999998,"body":"of what autism is, what autistic people's experience, and how the rest of the school, so how"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1317.5849999999998,"endTime":1323.98,"body":"the pupils watching it who are not autistic, can help their autistic peers and make basically"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1323.98,"endTime":1326.48,"body":"the school more of an inclusive society."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1327.34,"endTime":1332.5749999999998,"body":"And this video, some of the autistic youth advisers also talked about their experiences in the"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1332.5749999999998,"endTime":1334.5949999999998,"body":"video, and it was voiced over by them."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1334.735,"endTime":1339.3899999999999,"body":"So, yeah, keeping autistic pupils at the heart of what program is."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1339.4699999999998,"endTime":1347.155,"body":"And also a lot of us on the supervisors had experienced bullying and mental health issues. We did experience this."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1347.395,"endTime":1353.235,"body":"So being able to understand what other autistic peoples may be going through now hopefully kind"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1353.235,"endTime":1355.2549999999999,"body":"of comforts them to know that they're not alone."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1355.3149999999998,"endTime":1359.4299999999998,"body":"And I guess hearing those words spoken by someone who's going through that situation, again,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1359.4299999999998,"endTime":1365.59,"body":"gives it an authenticity that it's difficult for a neurotypical adult standing on a stage delivering"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1365.59,"endTime":1367.0649999999998,"body":"an assembly to to give."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1367.0649999999998,"endTime":1372.105,"body":"You kind of lose that connection because on the one hand, they're a different age and on the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1372.105,"endTime":1374.524,"body":"other hand, they might have a sort of a different neurobiology."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1375.629,"endTime":1381.009,"body":"So it helps bring that kind of authentic voice about school experience together."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1381.4699999999998,"endTime":1387.0949999999998,"body":"What kind of feedback have you received from teachers and school leaders who have used the program?"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1387.394,"endTime":1392.27,"body":"Yeah. So as part of developing the program, we we run a pilot scheme and that was in the autumn"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1392.27,"endTime":1394.53,"body":"term of last year, so September to December."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1394.59,"endTime":1400.5549999999998,"body":"This was across 19 secondary schools in 7 different regions of England, and we're really just delighted with the feedback."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1400.5549999999998,"endTime":1405.135,"body":"We received fantastic feedback, and it's funny you touched on that, the authenticity part because"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1405.195,"endTime":1409.59,"body":"one of the teachers' feedback was that they're being co developed the resources by autistic"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1409.59,"endTime":1413.59,"body":"young people themselves and by young people, such as Lydia O'Stealley in school, really gave"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1413.59,"endTime":1418.0149999999999,"body":"it like an extra level of gravitas and you could see that it connected a lot more with the young"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1418.0149999999999,"endTime":1419.695,"body":"people that are taking part in the program."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1419.695,"endTime":1423.7949999999998,"body":"So we had the fact that there was a good balance of it being both educational and supportive,"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1424.0149999999999,"endTime":1428.7099999999998,"body":"where we had teachers say that the students really engaged with and enjoyed the sessions, and"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1428.7099999999998,"endTime":1432.81,"body":"we also delivered a number of surveys as part of the the evaluation of the pilot."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1432.8149999999998,"endTime":1437.3149999999998,"body":"One of the real takeaways that we were really pleased by was that 93% of peer facilitators,"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1437.455,"endTime":1442.175,"body":"so the ones leading the sessions, felt they'd developed important skills throughout the program"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1442.175,"endTime":1447.06,"body":"such as communication skills, leadership, collaboration with their fellow pupils."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1447.279,"endTime":1448.2389999999998,"body":"So that was really important."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1448.2389999999998,"endTime":1452.5339999999999,"body":"We had young people say that talking to the peer facilitators was really valuable as well, and"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1452.5339999999999,"endTime":1457.0949999999998,"body":"they felt like they could open up more to them than teachers, or they felt more comfortable"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1457.0949999999998,"endTime":1458.0549999999998,"body":"in that kind of setting."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1458.0549999999998,"endTime":1462.75,"body":"And also from parents, we had a really positive bit of feedback from a parent that said the"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1462.75,"endTime":1468.605,"body":"program had a positive impact, and their child was able to more identify when they were maybe"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1468.605,"endTime":1471.885,"body":"struggling with their mental health and communicate the needs to their parents. So"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1472.0449999999998,"endTime":1478.03,"body":"So that's the big picture results from using the program, but can we hear about a personal success"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1478.03,"endTime":1480.61,"body":"story from a student who's used the program?"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1480.6699999999998,"endTime":1487.105,"body":"I can talk about what I've seen at my school in terms of leading and being able to see the autistic"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1487.105,"endTime":1491.925,"body":"pupils feel comfortable to open up to each other and talk about it especially with, like, the"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1492.4199999999998,"endTime":1499.379,"body":"activities in the presentation really enabled things that autistic peoples often feel that they"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1499.379,"endTime":1504.235,"body":"can't talk about, that there's shame in talking about when they really shouldn't be, feel like"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1504.235,"endTime":1509.3,"body":"they could now open up and that someone else may also be experiencing this and then they're"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1509.3,"endTime":1511.1589999999999,"body":"not, like, alone in their own bubble."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1511.4599999999998,"endTime":1518.865,"body":"And being able to empower autistic pupils to be able to take charge of their mental health."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1519.0849999999998,"endTime":1524.5249999999999,"body":"In the environment that's created when doing these presentations and these sessions, it means"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1524.5249999999999,"endTime":1530.59,"body":"that a lot of autistic peoples who wouldn't feel comfortable to, like, stim, etcetera, you can"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1530.59,"endTime":1535.695,"body":"see them a lot more comfortable to stim and chat about their special interests, etcetera."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1536.154,"endTime":1538.0949999999998,"body":"So that's been really great to see."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1538.235,"endTime":1541.8349999999998,"body":"We go into school still, and we still meet real teachers and real pupils."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1541.8349999999998,"endTime":1547.52,"body":"And I see a lot of pupils who are kind of quietly struggling going under the radar because they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1547.52,"endTime":1548.56,"body":"doing what you're saying masking."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1548.56,"endTime":1553.195,"body":"And I imagine there's a lot of power not just in being able to talk about what's happening to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1553.195,"endTime":1559.435,"body":"you, but actually to listen if you're a quiet person, to listen to other people having the same"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1559.435,"endTime":1562.2549999999999,"body":"challenges as you and thinking I'm not on my own. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1562.395,"endTime":1564.9399999999998,"body":"We actually received some some videos of the sessions."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1564.9399999999998,"endTime":1569.1799999999998,"body":"So one of the sessions is on OCD as I mentioned and there was a young person, they were talking"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1569.1799999999998,"endTime":1573.455,"body":"to the peer facilitator and they were saying I relate to that kind of thing because I've only"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1573.455,"endTime":1578.5749999999998,"body":"ever heard of OCD as like the sort of stereotypical things about it being sort of being neat"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1578.5749999999998,"endTime":1580.5149999999999,"body":"and clean and that those kind of stereotypes."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1580.5749999999998,"endTime":1586.1589999999999,"body":"So session really breaks down those misconceptions around OCD, and and the young person was"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1586.1589999999999,"endTime":1589.279,"body":"saying they felt like they related to some of the examples of OCD."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1589.279,"endTime":1594.465,"body":"So while that's not like the primary aim of the program, so obviously stop diagnosing anyone,"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1594.465,"endTime":1600.34,"body":"it can be really really sort of powerful for young people to recognize in themselves maybe what"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1600.34,"endTime":1604.1,"body":"mental health struggles they're going through and then gives them the tools to kind of think,"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1604.1,"endTime":1608.0339999999999,"body":"right, this is how I've got a handle on that now, and this is how I can sort of help myself"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1608.0339999999999,"endTime":1610.3739999999998,"body":"or work with a teacher to receive support."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1610.754,"endTime":1617.6599999999999,"body":"And a big part of the program is that mental health issues that autistic people experience often"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1617.6599999999999,"endTime":1624.225,"body":"can be felt differently to what the usual mental health presentation would look like, especially"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1624.5449999999998,"endTime":1630.405,"body":"with in terms for OCD because of sensory differences that autistic pupils have."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1630.465,"endTime":1636.62,"body":"Often it's experienced slightly differently to what a neurotypical person experiencing OCD would have."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1637.0,"endTime":1643.145,"body":"So being able to talk that through with other autistic pupils who also struggle with the same"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1643.145,"endTime":1645.645,"body":"sensory differences, or they can be different."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1646.105,"endTime":1651.9499999999998,"body":"But even so, there's still that understanding and being able to talk about it in a sense that"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1651.9499999999998,"endTime":1659.245,"body":"we are autistic peoples as well is quite important as it may also be difficult to talk about"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1659.245,"endTime":1663.5649999999998,"body":"with health professionals who may not understand what struggles autistic people face."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1663.5649999999998,"endTime":1668.385,"body":"Being able to talk about mental health when they don't fully understand that background can be difficult."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1668.74,"endTime":1672.12,"body":"So being able to give these resources to them is really important."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1672.5,"endTime":1677.78,"body":"If you're a teacher or a school leader who's concerned about the mental health well-being of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1677.78,"endTime":1679.625,"body":"their autistic students in school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1679.685,"endTime":1684.425,"body":"What's the simplest first step that they can take today to support those pupils?"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1684.645,"endTime":1691.6,"body":"Yeah. So I would say a big part is just listen in terms of a lot of teachers do already listen."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1691.6,"endTime":1696.905,"body":"I'm not saying as a criticism, but just not being dismissive of the struggles they're experiencing"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1697.8449999999998,"endTime":1702.3249999999998,"body":"as it often takes a lot of courage for autistic students to come forward due to the pressure"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1702.3249999999998,"endTime":1708.29,"body":"of stigma and like the worry that they may be bullied because of it if someone sees them talking"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1708.29,"endTime":1714.175,"body":"about it or that they may not be taken seriously when they talk about these things to teachers."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1714.475,"endTime":1721.2099999999998,"body":"And knowing, recognizing that not all autistic students who are struggling are going to be visibly obvious."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1721.51,"endTime":1728.5449999999998,"body":"Not all autistic peoples are gonna be actively disrupting the classroom, being really loud and stuff."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1728.925,"endTime":1735.2649999999999,"body":"Although that's the stereotype with autism, it's definitely not the norm for a lot of autistic students."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1735.869,"endTime":1740.769,"body":"So just because a student is quiet doesn't mean that they may not be struggling."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1741.389,"endTime":1747.905,"body":"So being able to check-in and making sure the environment they know they can talk and feel comfortable"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1747.905,"endTime":1754.56,"body":"talking without worrying about any potential consequences for that because just creating that"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1754.56,"endTime":1759.9199999999998,"body":"really understanding environment so that pupils gradually feel more comfortable to talk about"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1759.9199999999998,"endTime":1763.955,"body":"it is just really important and that their concerns will not be dismissed."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1764.0149999999999,"endTime":1769.5349999999999,"body":"And I understand that it's difficult, obviously, in this current climate because of how much"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1769.5349999999999,"endTime":1771.86,"body":"pressure the SEND system is under."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1772.3999999999999,"endTime":1780.2849999999999,"body":"But just like small things like letting students stim in classrooms like with fidget toys or wearing earplugs."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1780.745,"endTime":1786.1599999999999,"body":"I know that a lot of teachers are concerned in terms of what it may be to other pupils, but"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1786.32,"endTime":1788.98,"body":"being able to let everyone learn is really important."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1789.76,"endTime":1794.7199999999998,"body":"And just having those little things, which probably won't take up, like, 30 seconds, because"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1794.7199999999998,"endTime":1799.625,"body":"I know that the teachers are under a lot of pressure at the moment, but just those little things"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1799.8449999999998,"endTime":1802.5049999999999,"body":"will make a whole lot of difference to autistic pupils."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1802.5649999999998,"endTime":1803.7649999999999,"body":"Those are really small things."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1803.7649999999999,"endTime":1809.4499999999998,"body":"Be observant, don't make assumptions, and listening and make small accommodations."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1809.4499999999998,"endTime":1812.665,"body":"These are the things that don't require lots of money and training."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1812.744,"endTime":1817.225,"body":"These are very simple things that a human being can do to support another human being."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1817.225,"endTime":1817.745,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1817.7839999999999,"endTime":1819.384,"body":"Were not, you know, it's it's not asking the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1819.384,"endTime":1821.48,"body":"Joss, did you have anything you wanted to add to that?"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1821.48,"endTime":1823.32,"body":"I think Lily's examples are brilliant."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1823.32,"endTime":1828.36,"body":"Like, she mentioned, the fidget toys and things like that, allowing sort of movement breaks"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1828.36,"endTime":1831.435,"body":"or brain breaks, sometimes called in lessons."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1831.735,"endTime":1836.774,"body":"I mean, even in the art sessions themselves as as we said, the topics, might be heavy for some"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1836.774,"endTime":1839.115,"body":"people, so building in those time for breaks."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1839.2199999999998,"endTime":1844.02,"body":"Quiet rooms and quiet zones can be really important for autistic young people in schools, not"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1844.02,"endTime":1845.4599999999998,"body":"just in the classroom environment."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1845.4599999999998,"endTime":1851.405,"body":"Sometimes when you go out the classroom it can be always can be busy and buzzing and loud and overwhelming."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1851.705,"endTime":1856.48,"body":"I'd say just as a link back to the program, teachers have told us how much that they can get"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1856.48,"endTime":1858.24,"body":"from peer support, peer to peer support."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1858.24,"endTime":1862.6399999999999,"body":"So building those spaces whether it's our program or whether it's different groups of young"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1862.6399999999999,"endTime":1866.2949999999998,"body":"people being able to sort of share and and and talk about these things."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1866.5949999999998,"endTime":1870.435,"body":"I think it really does almost do a lot of work for the teachers themselves."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1870.435,"endTime":1871.8799999999999,"body":"You just get young people in."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1871.9599999999998,"endTime":1876.4599999999998,"body":"Obviously, it's got to be moderated and supervised with this kind of thing, make sure it's safe and with safeguarding."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1876.6799999999998,"endTime":1880.6,"body":"Those peer to peer spaces can be really valuable, for young people."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1880.6,"endTime":1884.485,"body":"And for teachers and school listeners who are listening to this thinking, right how do I get"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1884.485,"endTime":1886.2649999999999,"body":"this program in my school?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1886.405,"endTime":1892.2099999999998,"body":"Who specifically is the program aimed at and how can schools find out more about implementing"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1892.27,"endTime":1893.79,"body":"autistic and ok in their school?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1893.79,"endTime":1895.07,"body":"How do they get hold of it and so on?"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1895.07,"endTime":1899.1239999999998,"body":"As we've mentioned at this point, the program is available to all secondary schools in the UK."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1899.1239999999998,"endTime":1903.8049999999998,"body":"In terms of who delivers the program, like SENCOs and health and well-being leads within schools"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1903.8049999999998,"endTime":1907.425,"body":"are the best place anyone can download the toolkit from from schools."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1907.55,"endTime":1911.7099999999998,"body":"But that's who we thought may be best placed to deliver the program and work with the older"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1911.7099999999998,"endTime":1914.2099999999998,"body":"peer facilitators to deliver the sessions."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1914.35,"endTime":1918.195,"body":"So obviously schools can find out about our program on our website, push about autism.org.uk/autisticandok,"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1920.5749999999998,"endTime":1925.57,"body":"but on this page, on this webpage you can find further sort of step by step information about"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1925.57,"endTime":1926.77,"body":"how to deliver the program."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1926.77,"endTime":1931.57,"body":"There's a video about implementation and how it kind of more practically works on a day to day"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1931.57,"endTime":1932.8049999999998,"body":"basis as we've touched on."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1932.8049999999998,"endTime":1937.205,"body":"I'd say once you've downloaded the toolkit from our website, a great place to start is the teacher"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1937.205,"endTime":1941.945,"body":"handbook, which has an extensive range of resources, but kind of breaks down what each resource"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1942.269,"endTime":1946.4299999999998,"body":"in the toolkit means and when it can be delivered and what stage to do things."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1946.4299999999998,"endTime":1952.894,"body":"It also has things like checklists about before, after, and during peer led sessions, what teachers kind of role is."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1952.894,"endTime":1956.975,"body":"So things like that are really useful but it was initially aimed at mainstream schools but we're"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1956.975,"endTime":1959.2949999999998,"body":"open for all secondary schools to download the toolkit."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1959.2949999999998,"endTime":1960.9599999999998,"body":"And is there a cost for schools?"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":1960.9599999999998,"endTime":1962.1599999999999,"body":"It's absolutely free."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1962.1599999999999,"endTime":1967.3799999999999,"body":"I mean, a big part of it was getting the resources because of this pressure on the SEN system."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1967.7839999999999,"endTime":1973.965,"body":"A lot of the autistic peoples who would most benefit from this program are in mainstream schooling."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1974.185,"endTime":1979.34,"body":"There's a statistic for how many pupils are in mainstream schooling, but there's a lot."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1979.34,"endTime":1986.08,"body":"And for them to access resources can be significantly more difficult than if you're in a specialist school."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1986.465,"endTime":1992.965,"body":"So for teachers to be able to easily access that without costs, without lots of preparation"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1993.3449999999998,"endTime":1995.62,"body":"involved with it was really important."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1995.9199999999998,"endTime":1999.9199999999998,"body":"And, obviously, we know it won't cover everything, but we're just hoping it'll make a little"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":1999.9199999999998,"endTime":2005.5149999999999,"body":"bit of a difference to make autistic people feel that much better in school and enjoy school"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2006.215,"endTime":2009.735,"body":"and be able to feel like they can be themselves at school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2009.735,"endTime":2014.55,"body":"And I'll put direct links to the resources in the show notes as well."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2014.55,"endTime":2018.31,"body":"So if people are listening to this and they want to be able just to tap directly through without"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2018.31,"endTime":2022.5649999999998,"body":"going on the Internet, if you tap on this episode as it's playing, a more info button or something"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2022.5649999999998,"endTime":2023.685,"body":"similar will usually pop up."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2023.685,"endTime":2026.165,"body":"And if you're listening, you just tap on that, and you'll see the link."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2026.165,"endTime":2030.484,"body":"I'll put the direct link to the autistic and ok resources there to make it easy for everyone."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2030.484,"endTime":2035.9099999999999,"body":"Any advice to schools wanting to implement the program in the most effective way possible?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2035.9099999999999,"endTime":2041.455,"body":"Now you've done the pilots and you've had a rollout, are there any practical tips you've got that you've learned?"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2041.995,"endTime":2044.475,"body":"We feel that it's very adaptable. It's very flexible."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2044.475,"endTime":2049.675,"body":"So it's it's about adapting the the toolkit resources and the content and how the program's"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2049.675,"endTime":2052.38,"body":"delivered best to what suits your school."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2052.38,"endTime":2057.02,"body":"So some sort of practical examples of this, as I mentioned, the session timings can be split"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2057.02,"endTime":2059.095,"body":"up into 2 30 minute blocks."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2059.575,"endTime":2061.595,"body":"Attendees to the sessions would rather work individually."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2061.975,"endTime":2063.175,"body":"They can work on the worksheets."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2063.175,"endTime":2066.59,"body":"There's absolutely no pressure for young people to kind of work together."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2066.59,"endTime":2069.47,"body":"The sessions themselves can be split over a term."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2069.47,"endTime":2071.47,"body":"We appreciate schools delivering the program now."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2071.47,"endTime":2074.775,"body":"It's a very busy exam term that we've we've got just started today."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2075.155,"endTime":2080.1150000000002,"body":"So yeah, we really want young people to be able to put their own kind of style on things and"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2080.1150000000002,"endTime":2083.11,"body":"and spin on things and their own delivery style."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2083.11,"endTime":2087.51,"body":"So I really think it's a it's a great opportunity for young people to take on that kind of leadership"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2087.51,"endTime":2089.03,"body":"role and and make it their own."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2089.35,"endTime":2091.295,"body":"So, yeah, those are some tips I'd say."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2091.455,"endTime":2098.509,"body":"I'd just say teachers just, engage with autistic students, trying to create a safe space that"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2098.629,"endTime":2102.81,"body":"so that students feel comfortable engaging in the session without the fear of judgment."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2103.11,"endTime":2110.555,"body":"Just keeping an open mind, almost being able to watch the sessions as a teacher from feedback"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2110.555,"endTime":2114.77,"body":"we've heard is almost kind of a form of CPD in a way."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2114.85,"endTime":2120.31,"body":"They're also learning stuff as they go along from the discussions that the autistic pupils are having."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2120.45,"endTime":2122.13,"body":"Makes total sense. Total sense."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2122.13,"endTime":2127.305,"body":"Now normally, I would wrap up with a single question, but I've got 2 guests here today, so I'm"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2127.305,"endTime":2129.385,"body":"gonna ask you separate questions to wrap up the interview."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2129.385,"endTime":2130.685,"body":"I'm gonna start with Joss."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2131.06,"endTime":2135.54,"body":"Joss, who is the key figure that's influenced you, or what's the key book that you've read that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2135.54,"endTime":2139.785,"body":"had the biggest impact on your approach to working with kids?"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2139.785,"endTime":2144.105,"body":"Yeah. So because actually my mom so as you mentioned at the start, my younger brother, Adam's"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2144.105,"endTime":2146.4,"body":"autistic himself, if he is younger than me."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2146.4,"endTime":2148.0,"body":"She's also a SEND teacher."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2148.0,"endTime":2150.72,"body":"She's worked in, specialist schools for a number of years."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2150.72,"endTime":2155.275,"body":"And I think so from that sort of personal and professional standpoint, being my mom and and"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2155.275,"endTime":2160.335,"body":"parenting Adam as an autistic young person, I think I've just really learned a lot from her about the adaptability."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2160.7149999999997,"endTime":2166.0499999999997,"body":"Like, a lot of our young people in the network say, if you've met 1 autistic young person, then"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2166.0499999999997,"endTime":2167.5699999999997,"body":"you've met 1 autistic young person."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2167.5699999999997,"endTime":2171.735,"body":"Like, don't extrapolate that for all autistic people or autistic young people."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2171.895,"endTime":2173.1749999999997,"body":"I think that's really important."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2173.1749999999997,"endTime":2177.735,"body":"So taking that into my work and working with young people like Lily on the network has just"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2177.735,"endTime":2183.209,"body":"been it's been fantastic, but it's the thing the key learning from from her has been to never"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2183.209,"endTime":2188.669,"body":"obviously, like, prejudge or, think that if one particular young person has had a particular"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2189.085,"endTime":2193.4249999999997,"body":"trait of their behaviour or something, then it's not gonna be extrapolated for all young people."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2193.645,"endTime":2199.88,"body":"So example of that is a lot of young people have quite hypersensitivity to clothing, but Adam has hyposensitivity."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2200.58,"endTime":2206.02,"body":"So that is when you sort of have a lack of not lack of feeling, but, like, a lack of awareness sometimes."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2206.02,"endTime":2210.455,"body":"For example, if he had, like, pretty damp clothes on, he wouldn't necessarily bother him."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2210.455,"endTime":2214.295,"body":"He wouldn't feel cold, and that can relate to, like, feeling ill or unwell."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2214.295,"endTime":2219.49,"body":"Sometimes it takes a while for him to recognize, and everyone's sort of spectrum wheel, is different"},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2219.49,"endTime":2221.25,"body":"in terms of what their kind of traits mean."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2221.25,"endTime":2224.949,"body":"So she's taught me a lot about how to engage with young people as individuals."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2225.4449999999997,"endTime":2226.245,"body":"Now. It makes total sense."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2226.245,"endTime":2229.845,"body":"And I guess if you kind of, like, take that kind of comment and put it in another context, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2229.845,"endTime":2232.165,"body":"wouldn't say, now I've met one woman."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2232.165,"endTime":2238.2799999999997,"body":"I know what all women like, or I've met 1 white person or one Indonesian. You gotta extrapolate that. We call that racism."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2238.5,"endTime":2244.324,"body":"Lily, what key figure or event or book have you read that's had the biggest positive impact"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2244.324,"endTime":2246.245,"body":"on your approach to succeeding in school?"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2246.245,"endTime":2252.11,"body":"So there's a lot of people I could talk about, but I decided to talk about, so at my previous"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2252.25,"endTime":2254.83,"body":"secondary school, we were just coming out of lockdown."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2255.449,"endTime":2262.834,"body":"And my previous head of year at the time, I was struggling with mental health at this time."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2262.834,"endTime":2270.08,"body":"I didn't know that I was autistic, but she made the time to have a weekly check-in with me and"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2270.08,"endTime":2276.1349999999998,"body":"make sure I felt comfortable in school and we weren't always talking about, like, how I'm doing"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2276.1349999999998,"endTime":2277.6549999999997,"body":"in school subjects or stuff."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2277.6549999999997,"endTime":2282.74,"body":"Sometimes it would be just talking about something that we both loved like Totoro and stuff"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2282.74,"endTime":2289.56,"body":"like that just to make me feel comfortable and that it made me see that school could be enjoyable if I wanted to."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2289.7,"endTime":2296.9649999999997,"body":"And there are there are people who believe in me and support me, and that kind of set me on"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2296.9649999999997,"endTime":2301.4649999999997,"body":"the journey of who I am today and finally, like, understanding myself."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2301.7999999999997,"endTime":2306.2999999999997,"body":"But being able to feel more comfortable in school, it's just that little bit of understanding,"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2306.36,"endTime":2312.595,"body":"that little bit of the safe space was just, really important and it kind of it gave me belief"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2312.595,"endTime":2317.06,"body":"in myself when I didn't really have it, especially after lockdown."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2317.219,"endTime":2319.06,"body":"It was difficult getting back into school."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2319.06,"endTime":2324.5,"body":"I struggled with absenteeism, but those sessions really made the difference into wanting to"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2324.5,"endTime":2330.6549999999997,"body":"come into school and knowing that there was someone at the school that if I felt uncomfortable"},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2330.795,"endTime":2335.19,"body":"or if I felt upset, whatever, I could go talk to them about it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2335.19,"endTime":2338.87,"body":"And I think that's a really powerful way of ending the interview because the people who listen"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2338.87,"endTime":2342.995,"body":"to the show are the adults in school who generally care about supporting kids."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2343.075,"endTime":2347.1549999999997,"body":"And you can do lots of things and you're not really sure that whether you've had an impact or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2347.1549999999997,"endTime":2352.855,"body":"not, but listening to you, just small accommodations, just a few chats actually made a big difference for you."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2353.219,"endTime":2356.8199999999997,"body":"And if you're listening to the show and you're doing those kind of things, keep doing it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2356.8199999999997,"endTime":2363.055,"body":"I'd like to say thank you to Lily and Joss for giving us your time and sharing your knowledge"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2363.055,"endTime":2368.1749999999997,"body":"and expertise about how to implement these resources in school and how to support autistic pupils."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2368.1749999999997,"endTime":2369.375,"body":"Thank you for your time today."},{"speaker":"Lily Ashby","startTime":2369.375,"endTime":2369.935,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2369.935,"endTime":2371.8849999999998,"body":"Thank you, Simon. It's been a pleasure."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":2372.8399999999997,"endTime":2378.04,"body":"This sounds like a really important project that's already having an impact in schools, and"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":2378.04,"endTime":2380.86,"body":"it's definitely worthwhile schools signing up."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2381.245,"endTime":2385.165,"body":"Absolutely. And as promised, you'll find direct links to where you can sign up your school to"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2385.165,"endTime":2388.3849999999998,"body":"the autistic and ok program in the episode description."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":2388.8199999999997,"endTime":2390.7599999999998,"body":"So that's all we've got time for today."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":2390.8199999999997,"endTime":2393.72,"body":"We hope you find the episode interesting and useful."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":2393.94,"endTime":2397.275,"body":"And if you have, don't forget to rate and review us."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":2397.275,"endTime":2403.455,"body":"It's a really small thing that you can do that makes a really big difference to us and how we can grow the podcast."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":2403.515,"endTime":2409.62,"body":"And we can't wait to see you next time on School Behaviour Secrets. Have a great week. Take care. Bye."},{"speaker":"Joss Lambert","startTime":2409.8399999999997,"endTime":2410.3399999999997,"body":"Bye."}]}