{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":87.50999999999999,"endTime":94.89,"body":"As we see school exclusion on the increase, it's more important than ever that we as school leaders and teachers understand"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":95.109,"endTime":100.649,"body":"the real reasons why kids are being excluded from school and know what we can do about it."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":101.029,"endTime":108.835,"body":"I'll share all of that with you, plus some surprising facts and statistics in this week's episode of School Behaviour Secrets."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":109.935,"endTime":114.594,"body":"Welcome to the School Behaviour Secrets podcast. I'm your host, Simon Currigan."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":114.655,"endTime":121.3,"body":"My co host is Emma Shackleton, and we're obsessed with helping teachers, school leaders, parents, and of course, students"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":121.44,"endTime":124.25999999999999,"body":"when classroom behaviour gets in the way of success."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":124.39999999999999,"endTime":130.56,"body":"We're gonna share the tried and tested secrets to classroom management, behavioural special needs, whole school strategy, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":130.56,"endTime":134.635,"body":"more, all with the aim of helping your students reach their true potential."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":134.855,"endTime":140.635,"body":"Plus, we'll be letting you eavesdrop on our conversations with thought leaders from around the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":140.77499999999998,"endTime":145.415,"body":"So you'll get to hear the latest evidence based strategies before anyone else."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":145.415,"endTime":148.475,"body":"This is the School Behaviour Secrets podcast."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":150.10999999999999,"endTime":155.73,"body":"Hi there. My name's Emma Shackleton, and welcome to this week's episode of School Behaviour Secrets."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":156.35,"endTime":163.39499999999998,"body":"In this episode, we're going to look at the issue of exclusion because across the country, we're seeing more and more permanent"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":163.535,"endTime":166.755,"body":"exclusions and suspensions being used by schools."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":167.21499999999997,"endTime":176.11,"body":"So we're going to unpick how serious the issue is, the most common reasons why kids get excluded, and what we can do as teachers"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":176.11,"endTime":181.49,"body":"and school leaders to tackle this problem in a positive and proactive way."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":182.03,"endTime":187.785,"body":"We do have a free download that supports this episode really well. It's called the exclusions"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":190.245,"endTime":190.349,"body":"checklist, and it gives you a set"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":190.349,"endTime":193.285,"body":"of ideas and strategies to refer to if you find yourself in the difficult position of having to make an exclusion in school."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":193.285,"endTime":198.02499999999998,"body":"It's a position that no senior leader wants to find themselves in,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":201.14999999999998,"endTime":209.969,"body":"and this is a way of making sure that you've explored every avenue before moving forward with a potentially life changing decision for your pupil."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":210.50900000000001,"endTime":212.93,"body":"You can get a copy for free from our website."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":213.14999999999998,"endTime":218.73499999999999,"body":"We'll put a direct link in the episode description or the comments if you're watching on YouTube."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":219.035,"endTime":223.61499999999998,"body":"All you've got to do is open them up and tap or click directly through."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":224.075,"endTime":229.45499999999998,"body":"And don't forget, if you find this free podcast useful, make sure you like and subscribe."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":229.835,"endTime":236.32,"body":"That helps to share this content with other teachers and school leaders so that the information can reach more people."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":236.38,"endTime":242.32,"body":"It's the quickest and cheapest way of supporting the show. It'll cost you 30 seconds. Okay."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":242.619,"endTime":249.355,"body":"Let's look at how exclusions are changing in school and what this means for us as teachers and school leaders."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":250.535,"endTime":255.835,"body":"So here are the 2 key forms of exclusion, what they mean and how common they are."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":256.055,"endTime":260.16999999999996,"body":"And the facts I'm going to share with you are, well, shocking, really."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":260.54999999999995,"endTime":264.73,"body":"Let's start with the most common form of exclusion, which is a suspension."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":265.43,"endTime":271.93,"body":"Until a couple of years ago in England and Wales, the Department For Education referred to this as a fixed term exclusion."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":272.635,"endTime":279.695,"body":"Then about 15 years before that, they were called suspensions. So well done, DFE. Bravo for keeping things simple."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":279.91499999999996,"endTime":282.41499999999996,"body":"Not changing the names of things for the sake of it."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":282.955,"endTime":287.695,"body":"Suspension is where a pupil is excluded from school for a limited period."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":287.995,"endTime":301.83500000000004,"body":"In England, And that number was up from the previous term too."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":302.075,"endTime":305.53499999999997,"body":"And that number was up from the previous term too."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":305.995,"endTime":317.09000000000003,"body":"And the most common trigger for a suspension, persistent disruptive behaviour, followed by verbal aggression, followed by physical assault of a pupil."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":317.78999999999996,"endTime":326.99,"body":"Another key thing to know about suspensions in England is this, they tend not to go beyond 5 consecutive days because at day"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":326.99,"endTime":331.554,"body":"6, your school becomes responsible for the pupil's education again."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":332.095,"endTime":340.834,"body":"So if they're banned from your school site, you now have to find another school willing to educate them on day 6, which isn't easy."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":341.054,"endTime":345.51,"body":"Here's the facts and figures on permanent exclusion in our schools."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":345.51,"endTime":349.45000000000005,"body":"First off, permanent exclusion is exactly what it says it is."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":349.51,"endTime":357.245,"body":"A pupil has been, because of their behaviour, permanently excluded by the school and can never come back to this school."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":357.725,"endTime":363.424,"body":"In the past, this used to be called an expulsion, which is what it's called everywhere else in the world."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":363.644,"endTime":371.264,"body":"Again, big shout out to the DFE for keeping on changing the names of things, proving that if you rebrand a problem, you simultaneously"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":371.725,"endTime":378.419,"body":"show that you're taking it seriously and you've tackled the difficult underlying causes driving the problem? Not."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":378.96000000000004,"endTime":389.105,"body":"Permanent exclusions in the spring term of 2023 were at 3,039 children, which is up by a 3rd on the previous year."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":389.105,"endTime":394.245,"body":"In spring last year, there were only 2,200 permanent exclusions."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":394.625,"endTime":401.38,"body":"I say only, that's still 2,200 kids without a place in school."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":401.84000000000003,"endTime":410.82000000000005,"body":"And the most common cause of permanent exclusion, our survey says, same as suspensions. It was persistently disruptive behaviour."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":411.36,"endTime":415.98400000000004,"body":"That was followed by physical assault on a pupil, followed by verbal aggression."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":416.765,"endTime":423.264,"body":"Interesting side note, 85% of permanent exclusions recorded were in secondary school."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":423.725,"endTime":433.93999999999994,"body":"The implication for us, the adults, we need to think about what it is about the way that we are teaching today post 11 that accounts for that massive difference."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":434.08000000000004,"endTime":439.53999999999996,"body":"So why do we see so many more excluded children in secondary school than primary school?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":439.91999999999996,"endTime":445.28499999999997,"body":"In terms of the things that are within our control, well, here's one possible reason."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":445.66499999999996,"endTime":451.845,"body":"In secondary schools, you tend to have separate SEND teams and pastoral teams."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":452.4,"endTime":459.52,"body":"If you're listening abroad, when I use the word pastoral here, it has no kind of religious association at all."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":459.52,"endTime":464.26,"body":"A pastoral team is a group of adults who work with students on their behaviour."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":465.28499999999997,"endTime":472.105,"body":"Now that could be when a teacher needs support in the heat of the moment, say when a pupil becomes frustrated in the classroom"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":472.16499999999996,"endTime":478.745,"body":"and loses control of their emotions and explodes or shouts at the teacher or walks out of class."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":479.28499999999997,"endTime":487.519,"body":"Lots of the pastoral staff I've met are naturally empathetic and caring and deescalate the situation brilliantly."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":488.38,"endTime":500.395,"body":"But one danger is some classroom teachers can, and I'm emphasizing some here, start to over rely on pastoral staff or over"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":500.395,"endTime":509.10900000000004,"body":"time the teachers start to say, the pastoral team's job is to do behaviour and I'm here to teach, which means that you don't"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":509.10900000000004,"endTime":515.13,"body":"see proactive strategies in place, so you see more and more avoidable behaviour issues."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":515.75,"endTime":522.73,"body":"Splitting student support in secondary schools into pastoral and SEND teams gives you another key problem."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":523.264,"endTime":531.364,"body":"Pastoral teams often provide proactive support to pupils, providing interventions to support pupils understand their emotions"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":531.984,"endTime":537.204,"body":"and feelings, get on socially, perhaps some mentoring, check ins, and so on."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":537.519,"endTime":543.62,"body":"But often, that work is disconnected by the work of the special needs department, which is problematic."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":544.56,"endTime":550.9,"body":"Because the kinds of pupils who get excluded from school, they often have complex underlying needs."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":551.335,"endTime":558.635,"body":"That could be a condition like autism or ADHD or developmental language disorders and so on."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":559.095,"endTime":567.15,"body":"Or those pupils might have a history of trauma in their families where there's domestic violence or criminality or drug or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":567.15,"endTime":569.89,"body":"alcohol abuse, or they could have both."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":570.35,"endTime":574.21,"body":"And complex needs like this needs a holistic approach."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":574.67,"endTime":577.09,"body":"It's hard to get that big picture thinking."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":577.389,"endTime":581.674,"body":"So in secondary, we need to move away from pastoral and SEN teams."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":581.975,"endTime":591.595,"body":"They are the same teams supporting the same pupils in a needs led approach, more like SEMH tends to be tackled in primary schools."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":592.05,"endTime":603.27,"body":"Those high exclusion rates we're seeing right now, over 3,000 kids permanently excluded in the spring term alone, over a quarter 1000000 suspensions in the spring term."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":603.57,"endTime":606.0550000000001,"body":"Now there are two ways of looking at these numbers."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":606.515,"endTime":611.655,"body":"The first is to say behaviour in our schools is getting worse and it's out of control."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":612.035,"endTime":614.775,"body":"And what we need to tackle that is zero tolerance."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":615.315,"endTime":622.129,"body":"And the thing about zero tolerance is that it's a super seductive idea because it's so simple."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":622.6700000000001,"endTime":626.53,"body":"It takes a complicated problem and reduces it down to the solution."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":627.07,"endTime":631.89,"body":"Well, we just won't take these behaviours anymore and we'll drive up standards. Easy."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":632.405,"endTime":638.105,"body":"But here's the thing, if it were as easy as 0 tolerance, we'd already have solved this problem."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":638.485,"endTime":645.945,"body":"I'm all for high standards and I've seen with my own eyes the difference high standards can make in a classroom. It's true."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":646.245,"endTime":652.34,"body":"Most kids will either raise their behaviour to meet your standards or lower their behaviour to meet your standards."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":652.72,"endTime":660.02,"body":"So the rule there is with a new class, make your standards for behaviour clear from day 1 and stick to them."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":660.32,"endTime":664.285,"body":"But the kids who get excluded, they're not most kids."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":664.4250000000001,"endTime":668.285,"body":"There's more going on with their behaviour that we have to dig into."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":668.985,"endTime":675.405,"body":"Because here's another way of looking at the incredibly high exclusion rates we see in our schools and it's this."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":675.83,"endTime":683.03,"body":"There's an awful lot of kids out there struggling with unmet social, emotional, and mental health needs who are getting kicked"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":683.03,"endTime":692.1650000000001,"body":"out of school often avoidably if those needs were identified and met more quickly because then you would get far less of the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":692.1650000000001,"endTime":696.345,"body":"persistent disruptive behaviour and verbal and physical aggression."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":696.965,"endTime":705.82,"body":"Those pupils would be far more regulated and supported and able to cope in class and the busy social and sensory environment of school."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":706.76,"endTime":714.4390000000001,"body":"Am I saying that no pupil would ever be permanently excluded or suspended or we don't need sanctions? Absolutely not."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":714.4390000000001,"endTime":721.835,"body":"Because everyone, adults and children, deserves to work in an environment where they feel safe and can focus."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":722.615,"endTime":731.63,"body":"But if we want to reduce exclusions, we have to get better at quickly identifying pupils' underlying needs and then taking"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":731.63,"endTime":734.2900000000001,"body":"a needs led approach to supporting them."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":734.59,"endTime":741.25,"body":"And then we'll see exclusion rates reduce without resorting to cheap sound bites like 0 tolerance."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":741.7900000000001,"endTime":749.7950000000001,"body":"So what strategies can we use in school that will effectively reduce exclusion, that do address underlying needs so that we"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":749.7950000000001,"endTime":753.815,"body":"tackle the causes of challenging behaviour rather than its symptom?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":754.275,"endTime":761.78,"body":"Here are some classroom focused strategies to use if you're a school leader when a pupil starts to hit any form of exclusion."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":762.5600000000001,"endTime":772.145,"body":"Number 1, double check that you haven't missed whether they have an underlying need. 2, if the child has an IEP or behavior"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":772.145,"endTime":779.825,"body":"plan and they're supposed to receive some support in the classroom, whether that's recovery breaks or a visual timetable or"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":779.825,"endTime":786.86,"body":"sensory support or text adaptations, make sure that that is actually being done in the classroom."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":787.559,"endTime":792.22,"body":"Go in and do some random spot checks and see it with your own eyes."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":792.36,"endTime":800.485,"body":"Make sure you're holding the adults to account. 3, if you discover that the strategies aren't being used, ask the question,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":800.785,"endTime":804.565,"body":"is it because this person doesn't know how to do this well?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":804.945,"endTime":809.1850000000001,"body":"Have they had the training and support that they need to deliver the strategies well?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":809.1850000000001,"endTime":816.9300000000001,"body":"Because it's all well and good suggesting something like emotional coaching or reframing or restorative practice and that"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":816.9300000000001,"endTime":825.99,"body":"being written on a pupil's plan, but if the adult doesn't know what they need to do or they're not confident with it, how can they deliver that effectively?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":826.77,"endTime":834.995,"body":"Now here are 3 strategies for school leaders to use to tackle exclusion that are focused on systems and whole school practice."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":835.615,"endTime":844.12,"body":"When a child gets suspended, always check parents have been invited into school for a friendly, professional, problem solving"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":844.12,"endTime":847.66,"body":"discussion about supporting their child with their behaviour."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":848.36,"endTime":856.14,"body":"If the family have issues at home or are struggling to cope with their child's needs, have all the supporting agencies been involved?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":856.835,"endTime":865.4150000000001,"body":"Don't just think about learning, think about social care, medical needs, housing, anything else that can impact on the child's behavior."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":866.275,"endTime":873.98,"body":"And if the suspension is the result of a pattern of behaviour and the child appears to be going down the exclusion route, then,"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":873.98,"endTime":880.799,"body":"and we should do this systematically, ask if you should be thinking about supporting the child with an EHCP."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":882.374,"endTime":891.195,"body":"An education, health, and care plan won't be appropriate for every child, but by asking the question, we make sure that no pupil gets missed out."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":891.655,"endTime":898.1800000000001,"body":"And thirdly, if the child is approaching permanent exclusion, have you considered a reduced timetable?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":898.96,"endTime":904.9,"body":"The regulations on this will vary depending on where you live, but is not to act as a consequence."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":905.2,"endTime":912.26,"body":"It's to be positive to get a support package in place and allow time for it to have an impact."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":913.235,"endTime":921.575,"body":"Reducing a child's time in school by itself shouldn't be used as a consequence and does nothing to address their needs or improve their behaviour."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":921.955,"endTime":924.195,"body":"And that's everything we've got for you today."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":924.195,"endTime":933.169,"body":"The key ideas were exclusion is most often, not always, but most often linked to pupils having unmet additional needs."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":933.7900000000001,"endTime":942.335,"body":"Pupils are supported best in schools where we work together as a holistic team looking at the pupils' needs in the round rather"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":942.335,"endTime":947.075,"body":"than dividing ourselves into SEND and behaviour or pastoral teams."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":947.695,"endTime":958.299,"body":"And I gave you a set of 6 strategies to focus on that can support your pupils in school. 3 at the class based level and 3 at the bigger picture level."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":959.08,"endTime":965.739,"body":"If you found this episode useful, don't forget to like and subscribe or leave a review if you're listening to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":966.0400000000001,"endTime":974.124,"body":"And remember to grab your free copy of our exclusions checklist, look in the comments or episode description for a direct link."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":974.504,"endTime":980.365,"body":"Thanks for joining me today and I look forward to seeing you on the next episode of School Behaviour Secrets."}]}