{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.50999999999999,"endTime":95.05,"body":"Whilst every pupil's needs are unique, there's one key mindset shift that can enhance your de-escalation skills as an adult."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":95.26899999999999,"endTime":102.88999999999999,"body":"In this episode, we uncover what that mindset shift is, and show you how to apply it when handling student meltdowns or anger outbursts."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":103.30499999999999,"endTime":108.905,"body":"You'll learn how to reduce your students' distress and minimize disruption to classroom learning."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":108.905,"endTime":116.52499999999999,"body":"This is a must listen for educators seeking deeper understanding of why kids get dysregulated and how to support them."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":117.209,"endTime":121.746,"body":"Welcome to the School Behaviour Secrets podcast. I'm your host, Simon Currigan."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":121.85,"endTime":128.51,"body":"My co host is Emma Shackleton, and we're obsessed with helping teachers, school leaders, parents, and, of course, students"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":128.57,"endTime":131.47,"body":"when classroom behaviour gets in the way of success."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":131.60999999999999,"endTime":137.815,"body":"We're gonna share the tried and tested secrets to classroom management, behavioural special needs, whole school strategy, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":137.815,"endTime":141.83499999999998,"body":"more, all with the aim of helping your students reach their true potential."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":142.135,"endTime":148.99,"body":"Plus, we'll be letting you eavesdrop on our conversations with thought leaders from around the world, so you'll get to hear"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":148.99,"endTime":152.67,"body":"the latest evidence based strategies before anyone else."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":152.67,"endTime":157.425,"body":"This is the School Behaviour Secrets podcast. Hi there."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":157.425,"endTime":162.245,"body":"Simon Currigan here, and welcome to the snackable essentials episode of School Behaviour Secrets."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":162.46499999999997,"endTime":170.80399999999997,"body":"Just like a box of chocolates, these mini episodes are bite sized, packed with goodness, and will give you an instant energy boost without the guilt."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":171.13,"endTime":177.76999999999998,"body":"In each one, we unwrap a golden strategy or insight from a previous episode that you can use right away in your classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":177.76999999999998,"endTime":186.675,"body":"because sometimes, like sneaking that extra chocolate, we all need a reminder of those essential tips that make life a little sweeter."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":186.975,"endTime":193.935,"body":"Before we begin, I'd like to remind you, if you're enjoying these episodes, don't forget to subscribe so you never miss a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":193.935,"endTime":196.274,"body":"chance to join us for more Essentials episodes."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":196.654,"endTime":205.899,"body":"In today's episode, we're heading back to episode 57, which was originally released back in 2022, but it's still so relevant today."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":205.959,"endTime":214.065,"body":"My colleague, Emma Shackleton, and I are handing you a behavioural Ferrero Rocher, a game changing mindset shift that will"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":214.065,"endTime":222.085,"body":"help you de-escalate tricky student situations so that managing outbursts becomes a whole lot smoother. Let's dive in."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":224.545,"endTime":235.26,"body":"Here's a little mindset shift that might help with this, and it's thinking about the difference between a child's calendar age and their emotional age."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":235.64,"endTime":237.97899999999998,"body":"So the calendar age, well, that's easy."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":238.119,"endTime":240.875,"body":"That is how many days old that child is."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":240.95499999999998,"endTime":244.655,"body":"So in this scenario, we're talking about a 13 year old child."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":244.95499999999998,"endTime":253.274,"body":"So lots of 13 year olds are as tall and as big and as strong as adults, so you're looking at a virtual adult in front of you."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":253.274,"endTime":262.539,"body":"But actually, when we think about their emotional age, that's harder to gauge, but that is where they are at emotionally."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":263.08,"endTime":270.634,"body":"So, yes, they might be 13 years old in their body, but actually develop mentally, where are they at emotionally?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":271.17499999999995,"endTime":277.815,"body":"So when you're looking at this child in front of you, the mindset shift to make here is, I like to imagine a Russian doll. They're like a wooden doll."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":277.815,"endTime":283.36,"body":"It's usually a woman on the outside, and you lift up the top half of that wooden doll and inside there's another wooden doll."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":283.36,"endTime":285.78,"body":"You open that doll and they get smaller and smaller and smaller."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":285.84000000000003,"endTime":288.18,"body":"Well, I want to imagine a Russian doll with 2 layers."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":288.96000000000004,"endTime":298.304,"body":"When you're working with your out of control student, what you have to recognize is you're actually managing 2 pupils, not one pupil, but 2 separate pupils."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":298.604,"endTime":308.065,"body":"On the outside, the big Russian doll on the outside, what we're looking at is that 13 year old, that teenager who looks big and looks strong and looks mature."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":308.2,"endTime":313.72,"body":"But when you open up that Russian doll, on the inside, there's another one. There's a child."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":313.72,"endTime":319.02,"body":"There's a 2 year old or a 3 year old who has a much younger emotional age."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":319.4,"endTime":327.245,"body":"And what's interesting is in terms of how our brain makes decisions, it's that inner emotional child who's calling the shots,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":327.245,"endTime":329.42499999999995,"body":"who's making the decisions about what's happening."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":329.725,"endTime":337.83,"body":"Because when we become angry or when we move towards high levels of anxiety, we start to engage in more emotional thinking."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":337.89,"endTime":344.049,"body":"And in those cases, it's not the sensible, old, logical teenager that we're looking at."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":344.049,"endTime":350.245,"body":"It's that younger doll inside, that 2 year old, that 3 year old who can't control their emotions, who are making irrational decisions."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":350.245,"endTime":356.885,"body":"And it's important not to confuse the 2 because if you're confronted what appears to be, a 6 foot 13 year old who's close"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":356.885,"endTime":363.70500000000004,"body":"to adulthood, then you might be tempted to manage that situation like you're talking to someone who's 18, 19, or 20."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":363.88,"endTime":368.52,"body":"But just because they look like an adult, it doesn't mean they're thinking like an adult."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":368.52,"endTime":370.46000000000004,"body":"We have to think about the inner child."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":370.67999999999995,"endTime":374.36,"body":"Okay. So in terms of de-escalation then, how do we do that?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":374.36,"endTime":381.865,"body":"If we imagine the inner child, the 2 year old child, for example, let's think about how we would manage a 2 year old having"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":381.865,"endTime":389.405,"body":"a tantrum or who is out of control or being overtaken by their emotions. What would we do then?"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":389.79999999999995,"endTime":393.98,"body":"Well, we'd accept that the child had lost control of their emotions."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":394.52,"endTime":403.17499999999995,"body":"So we'd recognize that it's pointless talking and reasoning with them, and we'd realize that they need the adult's help to"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":403.17499999999995,"endTime":406.635,"body":"get on top of these emotions and to get back in control."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":406.93499999999995,"endTime":415.275,"body":"What we wouldn't do is turn around and say, we'll sit down and talk about the action man incident when you're more composed and being more respectful."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":415.78999999999996,"endTime":421.30999999999995,"body":"At 13 years old, we sometimes expect that children should be able to do this."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":421.30999999999995,"endTime":424.45000000000005,"body":"I often see this in primary schools as kind of an expectation."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":424.59000000000003,"endTime":434.46500000000003,"body":"Once children get to year 4 or certainly year 5 year 6, we just suddenly expect that they will switch now into a state where they are able to manage themselves."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":434.765,"endTime":442.90999999999997,"body":"And actually, just because they are older, just because they are bigger, it doesn't necessarily follow that they've mastered this skill yet."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":443.07000000000005,"endTime":446.45000000000005,"body":"Let's face it, there are adults who haven't mastered this skill yet."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":446.66999999999996,"endTime":453.40999999999997,"body":"So we can't assume that just because they're older or just because they're bigger, they're able to emotionally regulate."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":453.63,"endTime":460.275,"body":"So we have to deal with the pupil as they are in front of us, not how we think they should be behaving, but how they are behaving"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":460.275,"endTime":463.174,"body":"and how they have developed in terms of their emotions."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":463.31499999999994,"endTime":473.08899999999994,"body":"We're dealing with, although it looks like a 13 year old, we're dealing with a 2 year old who never developed the skills to deal with this situation. They have a skills deficit."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":473.08899999999994,"endTime":475.58500000000004,"body":"They lack the ability to regulate their emotions."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":475.58500000000004,"endTime":480.576,"body":"They lack the ability to control their emotions once they start to run away with them."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":480.576,"endTime":485.255,"body":"It's almost like they're having a tantrum even though they're 13 or 14 years old."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":485.33500000000004,"endTime":490.395,"body":"And there are all sorts of reasons why they might not have developed these skills at an earlier age."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":490.61400000000003,"endTime":494.53499999999997,"body":"It might be that their parents have presented them as poor role models."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":494.53499999999997,"endTime":501.269,"body":"Often parents that shout a lot and scream a lot have kids who shout and scream a lot, and they've just learned that template"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":501.269,"endTime":504.889,"body":"for managing difficult situations from poor role models."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":505.269,"endTime":514.185,"body":"It might be in their early years they experienced trauma or domestic violence, and that has impacted on their ability to regulate their nervous system."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":514.185,"endTime":517.465,"body":"So they're unable to when their emotions start to run away with them."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":517.465,"endTime":524.745,"body":"They might be hypervigilant, constantly looking for threats around them, constantly in this defense mode waiting for someone to attack them."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":524.745,"endTime":528.76,"body":"They might have experienced any of the other ACEs adverse childhood experiences."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":529.14,"endTime":536.12,"body":"They might have an underlying special need that's fueling high stress levels like autism or fetal alcohol spectrum disorder"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":536.58,"endTime":539.4,"body":"or attachment disorder or any of those other conditions."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":539.46,"endTime":546.185,"body":"So what we have to remember is what we're seeing in class, the behaviour in front of us is just the tip of the iceberg."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":546.645,"endTime":555.125,"body":"We don't know what happened before this event, either earlier today or 10 years ago, that has impacted on this child's skills,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":555.125,"endTime":560.41,"body":"their emotional skills, their ability to manage and regulate themselves in difficult situations."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":560.71,"endTime":567.43,"body":"Well, this is a tricky balancing act because although we're saying that we have to de-escalate the 2 year old, of course, the"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":567.43,"endTime":569.29,"body":"person in front of us is 13."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":569.67,"endTime":577.965,"body":"So a bit like a parent, first of all, we have to manage the inner 2 year old who's responsible for driving that behaviour because"},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":577.965,"endTime":586.864,"body":"they're experiencing those overwhelming emotions, but we've also got to be mindful that we have got a 13 year old in front of us."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":587.15,"endTime":592.769,"body":"So we have to be mindful of talking and acting in a way that doesn't offend them."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":592.83,"endTime":598.61,"body":"So we've got to think about our tone of voice and be really careful that we're not being patronizing."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":599.31,"endTime":602.45,"body":"Don't talk down to them like a 2 year old."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":602.765,"endTime":607.345,"body":"Use the language that you'd expect a 13 year old to be able to process."},{"speaker":"Emma Shackleton","startTime":607.5640000000001,"endTime":615.725,"body":"And if the 13 year old detects any whiff of an insult, you're gonna have the 2 year old and the teenager getting angry with you."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":615.725,"endTime":624.4,"body":"So what we have to do is guide that inner 2 year old until they're back in control of their emotions, and then we can start addressing the 13 year old again."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":624.4,"endTime":628.479,"body":"So this might involve some time away from whatever they perceive as the threat."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":628.479,"endTime":630.16,"body":"What is the thing that's frustrated them?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":630.16,"endTime":632.855,"body":"Is it a specific piece of work? Is it another child?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":632.855,"endTime":634.715,"body":"Is it an adult in the room?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":634.855,"endTime":642.874,"body":"If we can give them space away from those things, their brain is no longer going to be looking for that threat or reacting to that threat."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":643.015,"endTime":646.054,"body":"They're going to calm down, and they're gonna be more reasonable."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":646.054,"endTime":651.1,"body":"We need to talk and use language that is acceptable to that outer 13 year old."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":651.32,"endTime":656.46,"body":"And once we've got that inner child who's been jumping up and down and up and down with anger, once we've calmed them down,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":656.679,"endTime":662.9350000000001,"body":"right, we shift our focus back to the outer child, back to logic and talking about what went wrong."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":662.9350000000001,"endTime":671.035,"body":"We might have a restorative conversation about who was impacted by that behaviour and what needs to happen to put that situation right."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":671.2,"endTime":677.6800000000001,"body":"We might have to talk about consequences for inappropriate actions in the classroom or have a coaching conversation about"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":677.6800000000001,"endTime":682.74,"body":"how to do better in this situation in the future, whatever approach your school adapts."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":682.88,"endTime":692.254,"body":"But there is no point engaging in that conversation that requires logic and distance and calm until we've managed that in a 2 year old."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":694.075,"endTime":701.07,"body":"We're gonna have to pause right there as we run out of time for today's snackable episode, but if you want to unwrap more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":701.07,"endTime":706.53,"body":"insights about developing your de escalation skills, check out the full episode. That's episode number 57."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":706.99,"endTime":712.475,"body":"It's packed with practical strategies and definitely worth indulging in."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":712.475,"endTime":716.4150000000001,"body":"I'll pop a link at the bottom of the episode description for easy access."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":716.5550000000001,"endTime":719.9150000000001,"body":"If you've enjoyed today's episode, please take a moment to rate and review us."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":719.9150000000001,"endTime":728.46,"body":"It's quicker than unwrapping your favorite chocolate bar, and it helps more teachers, school leaders, and parents find our School Behaviour Secrets podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":728.46,"endTime":735.119,"body":"Thanks for tuning in, and I look forward to seeing you next time for another sweet, sweet bite of behaviour wisdom."}]}