{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":88.54899999999999,"endTime":94.78999999999999,"body":"Criminality and the growing impact of gangs on our pupils is something that affects all of our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":94.78999999999999,"endTime":99.35,"body":"schools regardless of where we live and even the age of the pupils we teach."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":99.35,"endTime":104.615,"body":"That's why in today's school behaviour secrets, we're going to explore the sometimes unseen impact"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":104.615,"endTime":110.21499999999999,"body":"of crime in our schools, how best to connect with our pupils at risk, spot the symptoms that"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":110.21499999999999,"endTime":116.83,"body":"there are issues that we should be aware of, and practical ways of supporting pupils at risk."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":116.97,"endTime":119.87,"body":"Welcome to the School Behaviour Secrets podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":120.16999999999999,"endTime":121.63,"body":"I'm your host, Simon Currigan."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":121.69,"endTime":127.28999999999999,"body":"My co host is Emma Shackleton, and we're obsessed with helping teachers, school leaders, parents,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":127.28999999999999,"endTime":131.31,"body":"and, of course, students when classroom behaviour gets in the way of success."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":131.475,"endTime":136.27499999999998,"body":"We're gonna share the tried and tested secrets to classroom management, behavioural special needs,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":136.27499999999998,"endTime":141.73499999999999,"body":"whole school strategy, and more, all with the aim of helping your students reach their true potential."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":141.95499999999998,"endTime":147.26999999999998,"body":"Plus, we'll be letting you eavesdrop on our conversations with thought leaders from around the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":147.26999999999998,"endTime":152.49,"body":"world, so you'll get to hear the latest evidence based strategies before anyone else."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":152.55,"endTime":156.31,"body":"This is the School Behaviour Secrets podcast. Hi there."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":156.31,"endTime":162.365,"body":"My name's Simon Currigan from Beacon School Support, and welcome to this week's episode of school behaviour secrets."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":162.665,"endTime":168.425,"body":"Today, we're gonna be looking at what we can do in schools practically to support pupils who"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":168.425,"endTime":170.685,"body":"are at risk of criminal exploitation."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":172.06,"endTime":175.18,"body":"But before we get to that, I've got a quick request to make."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":175.18,"endTime":180.48,"body":"Don't forget if you find school behaviour secrets helpful, make sure you like and subscribe us"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":180.62,"endTime":187.115,"body":"and share the podcast with other teachers and school leaders so this important information can reach more people."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":187.115,"endTime":193.454,"body":"It's the quickest and cheapest way of supporting the show because all it will cost you is just 30 seconds."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":194.075,"endTime":198.23,"body":"We've also got a free download that complements this episode."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":198.23,"endTime":202.49,"body":"It's aimed specifically at school leaders, and it's called the exclusions checklist."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":202.55,"endTime":208.81,"body":"Its purpose is to help you ensure every avenue of support has been explored before resorting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":209.26999999999998,"endTime":214.165,"body":"to permanent exclusion or for supporting pupils who are on that path."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":214.225,"endTime":220.565,"body":"It's written to help leaders make good decisions under pressure and use best practice to respond"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":220.945,"endTime":223.745,"body":"effectively to incidents of challenging behaviour."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":223.745,"endTime":225.2,"body":"You can get it for free."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":225.2,"endTime":229.68,"body":"I'll put a direct link in the episode description if you're listening to the podcast or in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":229.68,"endTime":232.82,"body":"comments if you're watching the video version of the show."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":233.68,"endTime":241.225,"body":"To explore the topic of today's show, I'm very excited to welcome our 2 guests today, Steve Warner and Desmond Skyers."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":241.225,"endTime":244.105,"body":"Desmond Skyers is the mentor lead at St Giles."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":244.105,"endTime":250.025,"body":"He's a published author and motivational speaker and leads a team of facilitators as part of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":250.025,"endTime":253.88,"body":"the SOS plus service, which we're going to explore to date."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":254.12,"endTime":260.28,"body":"SOS Plus is a preventative and early intervention service that puts lived experience at the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":260.28,"endTime":265.74,"body":"heart of combating child criminal exploitation, gang involvement, and serious youth violence."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":265.79999999999995,"endTime":270.365,"body":"He's been instrumental in the development of this highly impactful full program, which provides"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":270.365,"endTime":274.54499999999996,"body":"one to one support for children and young people vulnerable to criminal exploitation."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":274.685,"endTime":280.705,"body":"Desmond is passionate about this work due to his own lived experiences and his constant desire"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":281.005,"endTime":282.07,"body":"to want to give back."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":282.07,"endTime":287.90999999999997,"body":"Steve Warner is currently the head of education programs at St Giles and St Giles Trust SOS Plus."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":287.90999999999997,"endTime":292.33,"body":"His previous experience includes roles such as deputy head teacher at Luton in Hertfordshire,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":292.47,"endTime":297.365,"body":"where he's demonstrated strategic leadership and has led on behaviour management, staff recruitment,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":297.42499999999995,"endTime":299.365,"body":"quality assurance, and school improvement."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":299.66499999999996,"endTime":307.365,"body":"Steve has a proven track record of implementing strategies to raise standards in schools and to improve student outcomes."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":307.505,"endTime":309.905,"body":"Desmond and Steve, welcome to the show."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":310.065,"endTime":311.92499999999995,"body":"Good morning. Thank you for having us, Simon."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":312.03999999999996,"endTime":313.4,"body":"Good morning. Thank you for having us."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":313.4,"endTime":315.74,"body":"Thank you for giving us your time today."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":315.79999999999995,"endTime":322.28,"body":"I want to start by asking the question, how widespread is the issue of criminality and violence?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":322.28,"endTime":328.395,"body":"How many of our students in our schools are impacted, And what kinds of criminality are they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":328.395,"endTime":330.095,"body":"most likely to be exposed to?"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":330.794,"endTime":332.315,"body":"I think I'll start off here, Simon."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":332.315,"endTime":335.455,"body":"I mean, the the the simple answer is too high."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":336.07399999999996,"endTime":339.03499999999997,"body":"Just briefly, just to sort of frame it within the national context."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":339.03499999999997,"endTime":344.53,"body":"If we look at the youth endowment from beyond the headlines report, that came out in July, this"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":344.53,"endTime":349.11,"body":"year and looks at the trends, in violence affecting children."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":349.57000000000005,"endTime":356.405,"body":"What we saw over the sort of 2010's was serious violent cases increased, spiking to 2017, 2018."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":356.70500000000004,"endTime":361.845,"body":"Recently, as they have declined slightly, but we need to be really clear."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":361.905,"endTime":365.105,"body":"Last year, 99 young lives were lost due to violence."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":365.105,"endTime":370.96000000000004,"body":"There were 467 cases of children admitted to hospital with injuries caused by a knife."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":371.41999999999996,"endTime":374.4,"body":"Within these headlines, yes, there are trends."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":374.62,"endTime":380.05999999999995,"body":"We see that black children are overrepresented both as victims and perpetrators, 6 times more"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":380.05999999999995,"endTime":383.91999999999996,"body":"likely to be victim of homicide and twice as more likely to be arrested."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":384.96500000000003,"endTime":387.78499999999997,"body":"Boys, we know, far more likely to be involved."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":388.485,"endTime":393.385,"body":"I think the 22, 23, they're about 87% of victims were boys."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":394.245,"endTime":397.68499999999995,"body":"We also need to look at the sort of violence against women and girls."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":397.68499999999995,"endTime":404.049,"body":"That's becoming increasing issue, toxic masculinity, Andrew Tate, etcetera, etcetera. 3 out"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":404.049,"endTime":409.82899999999995,"body":"of 4 hospital admissions, last year, were for sexual assault were female."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":410.60400000000004,"endTime":415.82399999999996,"body":"Then there's geographical concentrations, statistically those living in the poorest ten areas,"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":416.125,"endTime":420.625,"body":"2 and a half more times likely, to experience violence."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":421.644,"endTime":424.384,"body":"So yes, the trends are alarming."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":425.245,"endTime":431.59000000000003,"body":"And, but I actually, I think, and where we position ourselves, we actually consider all young"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":431.59000000000003,"endTime":439.51,"body":"people to be at risk, even sitting outside of those trends and in our work, for example, we've"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":439.51,"endTime":442.544,"body":"worked with white middle class children."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":443.48400000000004,"endTime":450.625,"body":"Wealthy parents, perhaps degree of, absenteeism from the parents, sometimes referred to this as teenage affluenza."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":451.644,"endTime":457.29999999999995,"body":"And what we've seen is even those those those children, who perhaps sit outside, perhaps some"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":457.29999999999995,"endTime":461.62,"body":"of those, that sort of profiling, if you like, in terms of those most vulnerable, but we see"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":461.62,"endTime":468.6,"body":"these young people getting involved, in in in in gang involvement, drug dealing, county lines,"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":471.08500000000004,"endTime":474.225,"body":"female violence, girls in toxic relationships."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":476.525,"endTime":480.28499999999997,"body":"So actually, this is where we where we come from, when we actually frame it, we consider all"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":480.28499999999997,"endTime":482.44500000000005,"body":"young people to be to be at risk."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":482.44500000000005,"endTime":489.29999999999995,"body":"But I think it's also worthwhile when we actually look behind the data, the extent of that impact"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":489.29999999999995,"endTime":494.5,"body":"is really hard to measure as well because what these these figures don't include is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":494.82000000000005,"endTime":499.38,"body":"they might highlight the physical heart, but they don't tell about the mental scars of loss,"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":499.38,"endTime":502.395,"body":"the witnessing violence, the coercion, intimidation."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":504.45500000000004,"endTime":509.975,"body":"All of this is pushed against that backdrop of mainstream media, and that narrative where we"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":509.975,"endTime":517.39,"body":"become sort of socially desensitized, violence, county lines, young people are very much more"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":517.39,"endTime":524.13,"body":"that their exposure to these is very much normalized now for simply too many young people within our society."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":525.47,"endTime":529.23,"body":"I think you made an important point that I'd I'd like to unpack a little bit if I might."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":529.23,"endTime":533.715,"body":"There might be a lot of people listening to this thinking, this doesn't affect my school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":533.715,"endTime":536.295,"body":"I'm in a very middle class area."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":536.835,"endTime":539.635,"body":"Our parents are doctors and teachers even."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":539.635,"endTime":541.734,"body":"But often, those people are very, very busy."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":541.795,"endTime":549.45,"body":"And you talked about affluenza, and often there's an issue around absent parenting"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":550.15,"endTime":555.29,"body":"because in in the professional classes because those professionals are so busy, and that leaves"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":555.35,"endTime":561.195,"body":"children open to influence from from gangs and criminality."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":561.255,"endTime":567.575,"body":"I wonder if you could just talk more about that because this is this isn't just about, inner city areas."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":567.575,"endTime":569.335,"body":"This this is a widespread problem. Yeah?"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":569.335,"endTime":578.84,"body":"Absolutely. And I think it's absolutely key for those of us within education to move beyond the stereotypical, victim perpetrator."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":579.859,"endTime":582.519,"body":"Perhaps I alluded to that the data suggests."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":583.46,"endTime":585.299,"body":"And I think, you know, we need to bear in mind."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":585.299,"endTime":589.765,"body":"We talk about this idea afterwards with these young people with money to burn."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":590.864,"endTime":593.125,"body":"Again, young people we know like to experiment."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":593.424,"endTime":594.885,"body":"We know the lure of drugs."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":594.965,"endTime":599.125,"body":"We know expand expansion with gateway drugs, vapes, etcetera."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":599.4250000000001,"endTime":604.71,"body":"And and it's important to highlight that those young people are absolutely vulnerable and as"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":604.71,"endTime":608.97,"body":"vulnerable to to to anybody anybody else, a particular profile of young person."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":609.59,"endTime":614.41,"body":"I allude to the fact that and say this several times."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":615.465,"endTime":620.744,"body":"I used to work with number of head teachers within the one of the home counties and used to"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":620.744,"endTime":624.445,"body":"talk about this, and more often than not."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":624.6650000000001,"endTime":628.744,"body":"Some of those head teachers, when I would start to introduce this topic, you'd see heads go"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":628.744,"endTime":632.51,"body":"down, phones come out, iPads go out, almost a case of head in the sand."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":632.8100000000001,"endTime":638.09,"body":"Spoke to one of those head teachers, following a recent session, and he basically said, great session, Steve."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":638.09,"endTime":640.65,"body":"Really informative, but actually this isn't an issue for me."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":640.65,"endTime":649.115,"body":"My sole concern is getting my boys in my school into the 6th form college. 6 months later, there"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":649.115,"endTime":651.695,"body":"was a fatal stabbing outside that school."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":651.9150000000001,"endTime":655.34,"body":"That head teacher came back and said, okay. I get it now. I was right."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":655.74,"endTime":659.6800000000001,"body":"It it sounds like it's kinda like one of those things that you don't realize it's a problem"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":659.74,"endTime":662.379,"body":"until it's escalated to a point where you can see it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":662.379,"endTime":666.72,"body":"It's like something that maybe goes on in the back, but it's kind of hidden away."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":666.9390000000001,"endTime":672.6650000000001,"body":"And if we're not looking and and seeing what's happened and being active about supporting our"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":672.6650000000001,"endTime":675.385,"body":"kids, then then those problems can brew away."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":675.385,"endTime":676.4250000000001,"body":"Is there I'm just curious."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":676.4250000000001,"endTime":683.6,"body":"Is there anything about traits individual pupils or students might have that means they're more"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":683.6,"endTime":691.86,"body":"likely to be affected or sort of inducted by gangs or criminals that might make them attractive to gangs?"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":692.4,"endTime":697.365,"body":"Absolutely. Actually, probably. I mean, Des, who's got obviously got that experience on the ground."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":697.365,"endTime":701.525,"body":"Might be a good opportunity, Des, for you just to talk a little bit about, to come in a little bit here."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":701.525,"endTime":710.105,"body":"Oh, yeah. let's go back to what you said earlier about, it doesn't matter what community you come from."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":710.26,"endTime":711.64,"body":"The risk is the same."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":711.86,"endTime":719.8000000000001,"body":"The the glamorized nature of the gang culture, youth violence and knife crime, all our children are exposed to it."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":719.86,"endTime":725.88,"body":"And it goes from just attraction all the way down to accepting, the gang culture."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":726.595,"endTime":734.4350000000001,"body":"So one of the thing that we see and and and is clear to us is young people, that come from community"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":734.4350000000001,"endTime":742.41,"body":"that are underserved, they're they're they're targets because for the mere fact that the"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":742.41,"endTime":748.41,"body":"person who's doing the grooming, that person have similar experience and they are more able"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":748.41,"endTime":755.085,"body":"to interact with that young person because they can relate to that young person's need of belonging,"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":755.5450000000001,"endTime":762.605,"body":"of lack of resources, and so in in essence, what we are looking at,"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":762.745,"endTime":765.5640000000001,"body":"you know, children that want to feel belonging."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":765.82,"endTime":767.98,"body":"They wanna feel a part of something."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":767.98,"endTime":774.14,"body":"They wanna feel like they have the resources because if you notice and I don't know Steve can"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":774.14,"endTime":775.26,"body":"relate to this as well."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":775.26,"endTime":779.6,"body":"You will see a young person come in the school and they will have this fake pocketbook."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":779.82,"endTime":782.535,"body":"It's not a real Gucci book, pocketbook."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":782.995,"endTime":785.5550000000001,"body":"You know, the handbag that they wear across at their church."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":785.5550000000001,"endTime":787.975,"body":"And what it would do the the fake one."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":788.434,"endTime":793.254,"body":"But they would host they will hold its soul like almost like a treasure to them."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":793.874,"endTime":801.44,"body":"And the the young person now that is able to afford the real one, that young person is almost like a celebrity."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":802.14,"endTime":808.86,"body":"So just to go back to the to your question, it's it's about, you know, wanna feel like they"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":808.86,"endTime":816.455,"body":"belong to something, wanna feel like they can afford something, wanna look like they have status and wealth."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":816.595,"endTime":823.335,"body":"And just that type of that type of thing is  the thing that kinda put a lot of our young people, at risk."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":823.635,"endTime":824.994,"body":"You used an interesting word earlier."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":824.994,"endTime":831.7900000000001,"body":"You used the word grooming, and a lot of people when they hear that word will think more around kind of sexual predators."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":832.89,"endTime":835.13,"body":"But this is another form of grooming, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":835.13,"endTime":843.495,"body":"Yes. It is. it's providing incentive for young people to support criminal activity."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":843.495,"endTime":844.855,"body":"Basically, that's what it is."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":844.855,"endTime":851.335,"body":"Because what you find is that, a older gang member plied the myth that if this young person get"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":851.335,"endTime":854.45,"body":"caught doing something, the system is not gonna do nothing about it."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":854.53,"endTime":857.01,"body":"But if I get caught, something is gonna happen to me."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":857.01,"endTime":860.629,"body":"I might go to prison for 5 years, 20 years, 30 years, whatever that looks like."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":860.6890000000001,"endTime":864.609,"body":"But so the young person is incentivized. First, what they do?"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":864.609,"endTime":869.885,"body":"They target that young person without the young person knowing, and then they befriend the young"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":869.885,"endTime":876.605,"body":"person, and then they begin to provide gifts and, you know, incentivize, you know, change in"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":876.605,"endTime":878.624,"body":"friendship group, change in attitude."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":878.924,"endTime":883.345,"body":"And these young people, what you find happen, eventually, they begin to disengage."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":883.919,"endTime":886.419,"body":"It it actually sounds like a very cynical process."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":887.2,"endTime":895.28,"body":"If you're on I just wonder if you do whether there is any evidence around whether kids with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":895.28,"endTime":901.385,"body":"specific needs, I'm thinking like ADHD, autism, you know, those kind of conditions, whether"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":901.385,"endTime":904.105,"body":"we know anything about whether they're more likely to be targeted."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":904.105,"endTime":909.485,"body":"I can imagine if you have something like a condition like ADHD where you might be more impulsive,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":910.1850000000001,"endTime":916.84,"body":"not thinking about tomorrow, you know, more living in the now, whether that that might make you more susceptible? Yes."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":916.84,"endTime":924.835,"body":"It is. When we look at social, understanding, the desire for acceptance, Kids that have"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":924.835,"endTime":931.075,"body":"special need are more inclined to to move towards where they think they're getting that understanding from."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":931.075,"endTime":934.9350000000001,"body":"All the understanding that they are getting, they are more relatable to that understanding."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":936.035,"endTime":943.37,"body":"We work with, kids across the spectrum, and we find that kids that have special need,"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":943.6700000000001,"endTime":945.91,"body":"they are definitely at a high risk."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":945.91,"endTime":951.35,"body":"Just for the mere fact that sometimes they are isolated, they feel alone, they feel they"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":951.35,"endTime":953.845,"body":"don't have friends, and and so on and so forth."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":953.845,"endTime":958.585,"body":"So, yes, definitely, kids that have special need are most, most vulnerable."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":959.044,"endTime":961.364,"body":"."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":961.364,"endTime":963.124,"body":"Just to pick up a little bit on what Des said there."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":963.445,"endTime":965.785,"body":"Yeah, this talks about the that vulnerability."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":966.62,"endTime":970.88,"body":"And more often than not, we're looking at those factors that marginalize young people."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":971.02,"endTime":976.0600000000001,"body":"And we know that unfortunately, you know, many of young people with with with SCND, do find"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":976.0600000000001,"endTime":980.62,"body":"themselves on on on the periphery, both in society and also within education sometimes because,"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":980.62,"endTime":984.865,"body":"let's face it, many of them do struggle to access the the the curriculum."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":985.1850000000001,"endTime":988.965,"body":"And and and and for some, it's a challenge around engaging within the school."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":989.105,"endTime":994.065,"body":"We also look at, personal identity around young people and some of those young people that are"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":994.065,"endTime":996.565,"body":"struggling with perhaps their personal identity."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":997.4,"endTime":1002.6,"body":"There's the SEN people that perhaps may struggle to engage positively within the community as well."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1002.6,"endTime":1007.08,"body":"And that increases our sense of modernization, which of course then comes in, in bringing into"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1007.08,"endTime":1008.6800000000001,"body":"education into schools as well."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1008.6800000000001,"endTime":1016.015,"body":"So what we find in terms of those traits, it's many of those those risk factors, if you like,"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1016.7950000000001,"endTime":1019.115,"body":"that that that marginalize young people."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1019.115,"endTime":1022.4150000000001,"body":"And once a young person is marginalized, they look for that sense of belonging."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1022.475,"endTime":1028.32,"body":"And that's very much the beginning of the grooming process and that road."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1028.32,"endTime":1031.84,"body":"Our work is very much to stop that door open."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1031.84,"endTime":1038.195,"body":"And for people listening who also might be thinking that this is a secondary problem, predominantly teenagers."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1038.335,"endTime":1043.395,"body":"This is dribbling now down, and it has been for years actually, down into the the top end of primary."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1046.0149999999999,"endTime":1049.475,"body":"I don't know from my own personal experience, how damaging that can be."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1049.935,"endTime":1057.09,"body":"I wanna think about the impact of criminality in schools now, on the pupils, on their peers, on the schools itself."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1057.09,"endTime":1062.21,"body":"Steve, you've alluded to the very tragic end of someone dying or going to prison, but the impact"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1062.21,"endTime":1064.07,"body":"is much wider than that, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1064.635,"endTime":1066.735,"body":"Can you can you talk to that a little bit, please?"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1067.195,"endTime":1073.675,"body":"Absolutely. I mean Desmond articulates this really well."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1073.675,"endTime":1080.6689999999999,"body":"Desmond always uses the analogy of a ripple effect, and looking at how that stems initially,"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1080.729,"endTime":1089.3899999999999,"body":"obviously within materialize within an education setting and also how that sort of extends out to beyond the community."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1090.745,"endTime":1098.2849999999999,"body":"What we start to see within an education setting, is that early disengagement, typically negative behaviours."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1099.945,"endTime":1108.08,"body":"We start to see sort of changing in friendship groups, lateness, sometimes attendance"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1108.08,"endTime":1109.7,"body":"might become a little bit of an issue."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1109.76,"endTime":1115.6,"body":"Bear in mind as well that a lot of this exploitation actually happens beyond the gate, beyond the school gate."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1115.6,"endTime":1120.0549999999998,"body":"And again, it's that vulnerability for many of these young people to see them before school or after school."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1120.3739999999998,"endTime":1124.935,"body":"And for many, actually school represents sanctuary in that sort of safe space, if you like."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1125.5749999999998,"endTime":1129.5949999999998,"body":"So typically a flag would be that lateness, what's happening on the way to school?"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1131.0949999999998,"endTime":1132.774,"body":"Did that actually even make it to school?"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1132.774,"endTime":1138.58,"body":"What we then start to see, is is perhaps entering into perhaps a little bit of recreational"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1138.7199999999998,"endTime":1141.2199999999998,"body":"drug, gateway drugs, vaping, etcetera."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1141.9199999999998,"endTime":1145.779,"body":"And young people start to see that need for sort of instant gratification."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1148.2549999999999,"endTime":1152.5749999999998,"body":"Typically, and my world comes up quite secretive as well in social media use within school."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1152.5749999999998,"endTime":1160.274,"body":"These are all sort of flags that we would encourage those working with an education setting"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1161.24,"endTime":1165.4199999999998,"body":"to look for because actually, whilst I'm not saying that every young person who's late to school"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1165.56,"endTime":1170.2199999999998,"body":"is at risk of being groomed, but what you need to start we need to start doing this joining the dots."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1170.36,"endTime":1174.915,"body":"Actually, if you've got a young person who's in year 8 and their friendship group is starting"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1174.915,"endTime":1179.415,"body":"to change, they become a little bit engaged. Their behaviour deteriorated."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1179.5549999999998,"endTime":1183.7949999999998,"body":"They're late for school, spending a lot of time potential on social media."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1183.7949999999998,"endTime":1185.8149999999998,"body":"All of a sudden, the Gucci bag appears."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1186.87,"endTime":1192.81,"body":"Join those dots up, and actually, that's where we start to see some of those some of those flags, if you like."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1193.6699999999998,"endTime":1199.1299999999999,"body":"And they need to be the flags to inform early intervention within education setting."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1199.5049999999999,"endTime":1205.665,"body":"What we then start to see is behaviour increasingly manifesting out there in in in the community as well."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1205.985,"endTime":1208.645,"body":"I don't know whether there's anything you wanted to add to that, Des."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1209.425,"endTime":1215.99,"body":"No. No. Just to just to kind of put the the ripple effect in structure form."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1215.99,"endTime":1223.37,"body":"So it's the attraction, the involvement, the participation, the identity, and then the acceptance,"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1223.9099999999999,"endTime":1229.0449999999998,"body":"and they manifest themselves in the signs and indicator that Steve just, talk about."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1229.3639999999998,"endTime":1236.8249999999998,"body":"So a young person that is attracted to, I don't know, a certain type of lyrics, language, dress,"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1236.965,"endTime":1245.9399999999998,"body":"you know, the the the type of friendship group, that young person, unconsciously, can become involved in an activity."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1245.9399999999998,"endTime":1250.279,"body":"Like, for example, someone who is targeting them, and they don't know they've been targeted,"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1250.5,"endTime":1252.58,"body":"stop and says, why are you walking?"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1252.58,"endTime":1253.6999999999998,"body":"Or where are you going? I'm going home."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1253.6999999999998,"endTime":1255.955,"body":"get in the car. I'll take you. I'll drop you off."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1256.195,"endTime":1259.735,"body":"But in that car, they might have a machete in the trunk."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1259.875,"endTime":1261.635,"body":"The driver might be known by police."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1261.635,"endTime":1264.915,"body":"A few blocks down the road, the police pull over the car."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1264.915,"endTime":1270.9399999999998,"body":"And here, this young person, innocent by all means, unconscious of what whatever this guy is involved with."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1271.1,"endTime":1274.0,"body":"Now this young person is involved with law enforcement activities."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1274.62,"endTime":1280.639,"body":"Then you have the the ripple effect continue down now because now the young person go to, go to jail."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1281.1,"endTime":1286.524,"body":"Another set of young young people now look at that young person as certain type of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1286.524,"endTime":1289.904,"body":"make no sense type of respect."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1290.1239999999998,"endTime":1292.384,"body":"So now that young person feel emboldened."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1293.244,"endTime":1300.08,"body":"And as a result of that, they begin to actually consciously participate in in, you know, criminal activity."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1300.139,"endTime":1306.9599999999998,"body":"And I know you you probably hear about the term postcode, and that is a form of identity."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1307.58,"endTime":1309.279,"body":"So they takes on that identity."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1309.34,"endTime":1314.5249999999999,"body":"And once they begin to take on that identity, then the next aspect of it comes into play."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1314.5249999999999,"endTime":1323.904,"body":"We should begin to accept the criminality gang activity as a mean, a viable mean for respect and status and wealth."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1323.965,"endTime":1330.5,"body":"And so that's kinda like the trajectory of this ripple effect from, the grooming and"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1330.5,"endTime":1333.08,"body":"from, gang involvement with these young people."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1334.34,"endTime":1337.379,"body":"So what you're describing here is a very gradual process."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1337.379,"endTime":1340.259,"body":"It's not like someone has an epiphany overnight and decides to become a criminal."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1340.259,"endTime":1344.495,"body":"They're they're drawn slowly and gradually into that world."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1344.495,"endTime":1347.7749999999999,"body":"It's almost like a think about put it in psychological terms."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1347.7749999999999,"endTime":1349.615,"body":"So it's almost like an incremental commitment."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1349.615,"endTime":1353.3149999999998,"body":"They're they're moving towards a a lifestyle."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1353.5349999999999,"endTime":1356.86,"body":"We've we've talked a little bit now about the problem and the impact in schools."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1356.86,"endTime":1358.779,"body":"Now now let's talk about what we can do about it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1358.779,"endTime":1362.4599999999998,"body":"And before we started recording, I was having a quick conversation with Steve and Desmond, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1362.4599999999998,"endTime":1366.8,"body":"and we started to talk about some sometimes the best bits of a podcast happen before you start recording."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1366.86,"endTime":1372.0649999999998,"body":"Then we were talking about how the solution is not to parachute in motivational speakers who"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1372.0649999999998,"endTime":1375.5849999999998,"body":"do a half day, then you tick this off your list. Brilliant."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1375.5849999999998,"endTime":1378.165,"body":"As senior leaders, we've done our bit to combat criminality."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1379.185,"endTime":1382.0049999999999,"body":"You've got a really interesting approach at SOS Plus."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1382.865,"endTime":1389.53,"body":"It's got a very specific approach to supporting kids at danger of being involved in criminality"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1389.53,"endTime":1390.83,"body":"or are involved in criminality."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1390.9699999999998,"endTime":1395.3899999999999,"body":"Could you talk us through kind of practically how it works so people can get a feel for and understand?"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1396.33,"endTime":1399.31,"body":"Absolutely. So just just to pick up on that early earlier conversation."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1400.3349999999998,"endTime":1402.0149999999999,"body":"Yeah, there is no quick fix to this."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1402.0149999999999,"endTime":1407.215,"body":"They're sort of the here today, they're gone tomorrow, the tick box, thank you very much. Yep. Doesn't work."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1407.215,"endTime":1409.5549999999998,"body":"And actually can cause more harm than good."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1410.2549999999999,"endTime":1418.83,"body":"You know, and again, evidence suggests that that sort of scared stiff approach come in, talk,"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1418.83,"endTime":1421.23,"body":"scare young people, it doesn't work."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1421.23,"endTime":1426.8049999999998,"body":"Again, draw on the YAF, their their youth violence toolkit, research, inform actually says it"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1426.8049999999998,"endTime":1428.745,"body":"doesn't work, actually can have a negative impact."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1429.205,"endTime":1436.5849999999998,"body":"So what we do is we work with all education settings, primary, secondary, mainstream and alternative."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1437.2849999999999,"endTime":1440.745,"body":"And our approach is very much to see education as part of the solution."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1441.1,"endTime":1447.84,"body":"And actually, if we think about us as is within schools, we see our young people 35 plus hours a week."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1448.6999999999998,"endTime":1454.3799999999999,"body":"We know our pupils, we know our families, we know our communities that we serve, we know the"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1454.3799999999999,"endTime":1458.235,"body":"peers of our young people, and we know what influences them."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1458.615,"endTime":1462.7949999999998,"body":"What other service has that level of access and that level of understanding?"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1463.175,"endTime":1469.5,"body":"This is why we absolutely position ourselves to work with, those working within schools is absolutely"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1469.6399999999999,"endTime":1471.8999999999999,"body":"key, particularly in that early identification."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1472.6,"endTime":1477.0,"body":"And this needs to start as we've alluded to before, way back down in primary because actually"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1477.0,"endTime":1482.945,"body":"many of the seeds for these behaviors and these patterns of behaviors are sown year 5, year"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1482.945,"endTime":1485.2849999999999,"body":"6, sometimes even as young as year 4."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1485.8249999999998,"endTime":1490.725,"body":"And what we do is we actually utilize, an empathetic approach."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1491.5049999999999,"endTime":1496.62,"body":"Many of our our team, the team I'm fortunate enough to work with, have that sort of that lived"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1496.62,"endTime":1499.82,"body":"experience or that that shared experience that many of these young people face."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1501.6599999999999,"endTime":1508.615,"body":"We're able to facilitate both accurate and relevant information by someone who's actually been there."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1508.855,"endTime":1511.995,"body":"And they've many of our team, they've had that experience of adversity."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1512.135,"endTime":1513.975,"body":"They've lacked that sense of belonging."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1513.975,"endTime":1518.155,"body":"They've gone looking for that, that identity, if you like."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1519.175,"endTime":1522.3149999999998,"body":"They've also been involved in in in criminal activity."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1522.5349999999999,"endTime":1525.04,"body":"Many of our team."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1525.82,"endTime":1532.62,"body":"But what they set about, it's not about glamorization, it's about that mindset change, raising"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1532.62,"endTime":1540.8739999999998,"body":"awareness of violence, vulnerability, exploitation, and essentially working with young people"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1540.8739999999998,"endTime":1546.014,"body":"to make informed and safe choices, safe for them, but also safe for those around them as well."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1547.0339999999999,"endTime":1554.1399999999999,"body":"And key to our work, yes, it's about information giving, It's not about scaring, it's about giving relevant information."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1555.6399999999999,"endTime":1560.9399999999998,"body":"Also, it's about working and building those trusted relationships, and again, use that word empowerment."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1561.7199999999998,"endTime":1565.34,"body":"We all know that if you tell a young person to do x, they're gonna do y."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1565.5849999999998,"endTime":1569.425,"body":"But actually, if you empower them to make a considered choice, actually, do you know what?"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1569.425,"endTime":1573.185,"body":"In a lot of cases, they're gonna go down the x as opposed to y."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1573.905,"endTime":1585.389,"body":"And what we start to do is also look at the broader educational branches of our work, looking"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1585.389,"endTime":1593.09,"body":"at how the work can impact on people attendance, behaviour, giving that sort of sense of belonging,"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1594.175,"endTime":1600.5749999999998,"body":"and developing sort of pro society attitudes, as well as assisting with sort of mental health,"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1600.5749999999998,"endTime":1608.1699999999998,"body":"well-being, and and developing that sort of broader safeguarding practice and supporting education settings within that."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1608.4089999999999,"endTime":1617.769,"body":"I'd I'd be interested in learning I can imagine some young people being resistant to this, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1617.769,"endTime":1619.369,"body":"I'm wondering how you overcome that."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1619.369,"endTime":1626.0849999999998,"body":"If you've got the influence of people who are selling them belonging and a lifestyle that they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1626.0849999999998,"endTime":1632.0849999999998,"body":"getting hooked into, how do we then sort of I can how do we overcome that?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1632.0849999999998,"endTime":1633.465,"body":"What's your approach?"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1634.165,"endTime":1637.145,"body":"I think it comes with that that that empathy."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1637.76,"endTime":1642.1599999999999,"body":"And that approaching, the challenges, if you like, from a different lens."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1642.1599999999999,"endTime":1648.1799999999998,"body":"And if I go back to my time in school, I have great relationships with an awful lot of the young people."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1649.6799999999998,"endTime":1655.235,"body":"But I was a white male from a very different background to walk around in a suit and also was"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1655.235,"endTime":1658.5349999999999,"body":"in a position of, let's use the word, authority."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1659.0749999999998,"endTime":1662.195,"body":"And actually, there was that inherent resistance. Yes. We yeah."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1662.195,"endTime":1666.48,"body":"We had those really positive relationships, but actually deep down, did I know their world?"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1666.48,"endTime":1667.9399999999998,"body":"Did I understand their challenges?"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1668.8,"endTime":1675.2199999999998,"body":"And that is when, we go back to sort of 2018, when actually I first started working with Desmond"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1675.6,"endTime":1680.415,"body":"and actually started working with Desmond in the setting I was in to look at and tackle the"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1680.415,"endTime":1683.395,"body":"problem from this different angle, from that different lens."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1683.695,"endTime":1687.7949999999998,"body":"And what Desmond was able to provide was a very different angle."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1687.855,"endTime":1694.4399999999998,"body":"And he was able to offer that relatability, that empathy, as well as a much more enhanced knowledge"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1694.4399999999998,"endTime":1697.26,"body":"and understanding of the issues and challenges that these young people faced."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1697.3999999999999,"endTime":1702.12,"body":"And what we are able to do, and Des did this fantastically well, and this is the foundation"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1702.12,"endTime":1704.54,"body":"for much of our work within St Giles today."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1704.9199999999998,"endTime":1710.495,"body":"We've used that relationship to start to break down the barriers."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1710.7949999999998,"endTime":1715.695,"body":"And if we look at a lot of the conversations in schools today, there's a lot of conversation"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1715.915,"endTime":1718.415,"body":"about firm strict and what have you."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1718.7949999999998,"endTime":1724.369,"body":"And increasingly, clearly in the new political agenda, questions, is that starting to soften now?"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1724.369,"endTime":1730.149,"body":"Do we actually need to get under not the behaviour that we see, but what actually sits underneath that behavior?"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":1730.2099999999998,"endTime":1735.955,"body":"The only way you're gonna get underneath that is starting to engage with and understand these young people more."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1737.154,"endTime":1744.355,"body":"Right, so, again, it's it's it's about the relatability, your ability to relate, coming"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1744.5949999999998,"endTime":1750.49,"body":"and when we talk about cultural competency, what we are actually talking about is understanding"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1750.6299999999999,"endTime":1757.27,"body":"where that young person is coming from, understanding your own vulnerability when you were their"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1757.27,"endTime":1764.994,"body":"age, and what drove you, what pushed you, what pulled you into criminal, gang exploitation."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1765.3739999999998,"endTime":1772.014,"body":"Now just to to make make a point clear, the school and we have to give school big credit because"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1772.014,"endTime":1773.8739999999998,"body":"I'm a I'm a big supporter of education."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1773.935,"endTime":1777.279,"body":"I believe education is the key, and that's what saved me."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1777.279,"endTime":1778.8,"body":"That's what turned my life around."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1778.8,"endTime":1780.9599999999998,"body":"So I know that education is the key."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1780.9599999999998,"endTime":1785.06,"body":"The school do provide a lot of support for their students, for their pupils."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1785.4399999999998,"endTime":1793.675,"body":"So the the SOS service is a added support that the school's use who have us in their"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1793.675,"endTime":1796.395,"body":"schools employ in support of this case."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1796.395,"endTime":1800.0149999999999,"body":"Now let me just say, something about relatability."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1801.61,"endTime":1809.9499999999998,"body":"Relatability give the young the young people someone that they can talk to, that they believe,"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1810.73,"endTime":1812.59,"body":"understand where they're coming from."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1813.0849999999998,"endTime":1819.105,"body":"Someone who have experienced some of this, the challenges that they are going through."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1819.3249999999998,"endTime":1823.105,"body":"And as a result of that, they feel more comfortable self reporting."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1823.5649999999998,"endTime":1829.54,"body":"They feel more comfortable talking about the challenges then that they have, and they also feel"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1829.54,"endTime":1832.279,"body":"more comfortable taking advice and guidance."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1832.8999999999999,"endTime":1840.5,"body":"And the key advice and guidance that we give them is the importance of positive engagement in,"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1840.5,"endTime":1846.5349999999999,"body":"especially, educational settings, but more broadly with support structures."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1847.3149999999998,"endTime":1855.9699999999998,"body":"And starting with that support structure is their parents or carer, teachers, and other community support groups."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1856.2099999999998,"endTime":1863.83,"body":"And these young people, because they and it is so Simon is a is a it's an amazing thing to watch."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1864.37,"endTime":1869.49,"body":"You could see a young person coming into a session for the first time, meeting you for the first time."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1869.49,"endTime":1871.5849999999998,"body":"And when they come, their hoodies are up."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1871.904,"endTime":1873.5849999999998,"body":"They barely believe that they should be there."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1873.5849999999998,"endTime":1875.0449999999998,"body":"They don't even wanna be there."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1875.2649999999999,"endTime":1881.2649999999999,"body":"And then once the St Giles Trust, I said, it's for stop, begin to talk about their own"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1881.2649999999999,"endTime":1886.8049999999998,"body":"experience, the the head start pops up, the hoodies start drop, and they start getting more comfortable."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1887.3799999999999,"endTime":1890.9199999999998,"body":"And sooner or later, they begin to converse with you."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1891.06,"endTime":1897.4599999999998,"body":"And once that begin to happen, they always wanna come back and talk to you, and they always wanna listen to you."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1897.4599999999998,"endTime":1898.58,"body":"I had one young person."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1898.58,"endTime":1902.2749999999999,"body":"I don't know we're gonna talk a little bit, but I just wanna make this point sound of mine."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1902.2749999999999,"endTime":1906.5349999999999,"body":"I had one young person who his challenge was anger."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1906.8349999999998,"endTime":1908.915,"body":"He have, he have issues around anger."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1908.915,"endTime":1912.435,"body":"And, he would he would, you know, he would he would throw chairs."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1912.435,"endTime":1916.1899999999998,"body":"He would, you know, go act really, irritated."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1916.8899999999999,"endTime":1921.3899999999999,"body":"He and and so he had came to my my program to the program."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1921.77,"endTime":1926.81,"body":"And, one day, he was up there showing chairs, and the teacher come and get me."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1926.81,"endTime":1928.4099999999999,"body":"I said, Desmond, come and see what you could do."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1928.4099999999999,"endTime":1932.3249999999998,"body":"So I went up there and I said, come with me, and he and he followed me back to my office."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1932.465,"endTime":1936.385,"body":"And I said, I let him sit there for a minute to reflect."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1936.385,"endTime":1943.2849999999999,"body":"We're both reflecting, and then I just asked him one simple question. Why? What happened?"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1943.745,"endTime":1945.205,"body":"And he said, I don't know."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1946.23,"endTime":1947.61,"body":"He said he don't know."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1948.31,"endTime":1956.87,"body":"And then my job was to kinda explain to him that his behaviour is not only endangering him, but"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1956.87,"endTime":1959.27,"body":"also is other student, the teachers, and everything."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1959.27,"endTime":1962.635,"body":"At the end of the session, he was so calm. He was so accepting."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1962.855,"endTime":1964.635,"body":"And then this is the key."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1965.2549999999999,"endTime":1966.875,"body":"What we're gonna do about it?"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1967.3349999999998,"endTime":1973.5149999999999,"body":"What I want you to do, I want you to go back up to your class, and I want you to apologize to your classmates."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1973.5749999999998,"endTime":1975.51,"body":"I want you to apologize to your teacher."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1975.51,"endTime":1977.77,"body":"He said, but I don't know what to do. I said, don't worry."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1977.99,"endTime":1979.6899999999998,"body":"I'm gonna show you how to do it."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1980.23,"endTime":1986.07,"body":"We both sit there, and this is where the collaborative aspect of the program is important because"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1986.07,"endTime":1987.77,"body":"we do not impose solution."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1987.99,"endTime":1995.165,"body":"We collaborate with the mentee in coming up with that unique solution to support that challenge."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1995.385,"endTime":1999.865,"body":"We both sit there, and we formulated a quick little note for him."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":1999.865,"endTime":2001.145,"body":"And I said, this is it."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2001.145,"endTime":2003.8999999999999,"body":"And I take him back up there, and he go."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2004.12,"endTime":2005.6399999999999,"body":"This kid was so brave."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2005.8799999999999,"endTime":2009.0,"body":"I it just made me made me emotional talking about it."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2009.0,"endTime":2013.5,"body":"He went in front of his class and he stood up and he read a little paragraph."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2013.8799999999999,"endTime":2017.02,"body":"And you know what happened? The entire class"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2020.625,"endTime":2026.405,"body":"stood up and clapping. That's probably the first time in his life he has ever been applauded,"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2027.665,"endTime":2030.27,"body":"and he was so so happy about it."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2030.4299999999998,"endTime":2036.85,"body":"And that's the type of thing that the this, relatable relationship, this cultural competency"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2037.07,"endTime":2043.6299999999999,"body":"provide, not just for that student, but for the entire school, both for staff and for pupils"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2043.6299999999999,"endTime":2045.705,"body":"within the school, and it's an amazing thing."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2046.2649999999999,"endTime":2050.185,"body":"People listening to this, sometimes especially people listening to this podcast, right, they"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2050.185,"endTime":2053.705,"body":"really care about the kids in their class, and they they want them to do well in terms of their"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2053.705,"endTime":2059.18,"body":"social ability and their emotions and their outcomes aside from their academic outcomes."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2060.36,"endTime":2066.12,"body":"But sometimes, as a human being, as an adult, although you may want to connect with everyone"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2066.12,"endTime":2072.935,"body":"in your room and help everybody, you're not necessarily the right person to do that or the best"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2072.935,"endTime":2075.435,"body":"person maybe is the word."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2075.494,"endTime":2079.114,"body":"I think sometimes you have to give ourselves permission to say that that's okay."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2080.374,"endTime":2085.32,"body":"I might not have the shared lived experience or the, you know, the cultural competence to do"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2085.32,"endTime":2088.62,"body":"the job as well as someone else on staff."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2089.0,"endTime":2094.22,"body":"And that doesn't mean that you failed as a human being or failed as a teacher or an educator or learning mentor."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2094.52,"endTime":2100.415,"body":"It just means that there's someone else in the team that can do the job better, and that's okay,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2102.795,"endTime":2105.455,"body":"which can be a hard hard message to hear sometimes."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2106.715,"endTime":2109.374,"body":"Yes. It is. It is. It is."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2109.595,"endTime":2116.05,"body":"I I think as well, it's about having a culture within this within a particular setting that"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2116.05,"endTime":2120.47,"body":"allows you, a, to say, do you know what? It's okay."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2121.01,"endTime":2126.53,"body":"And, b, to open their door to allow organizations like us, and there's other people out there"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2126.53,"endTime":2133.445,"body":"that do a cracking job as well, To come in and work with these young people from that different"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2133.445,"endTime":2136.265,"body":"lens, and that's a phrase I use quite a lot, it's a different lens."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2136.485,"endTime":2144.27,"body":"Because, having the culture that within the school that's actually brave enough to do that is absolutely key as well."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2144.41,"endTime":2147.95,"body":"Because no school wants to be labeled the school with quote, the gang problem."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2148.49,"endTime":2152.81,"body":"And actually, you do get you know, there's always that risk of the keyboard warriors hitting"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2152.81,"endTime":2156.585,"body":"the keyboard while they've got this and they've got that in their next gang member talking to them."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2156.745,"endTime":2158.105,"body":"Woah, there must be a problem within the school."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2158.105,"endTime":2163.165,"body":"We've gotta bear in mind as well, actually, for many of these young people that are entrenched, actually school."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2163.305,"endTime":2164.105,"body":"They keep their head down."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2164.105,"endTime":2169.145,"body":"They're not coming in wearing colors yielding noise because they don't need the attention of"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2169.145,"endTime":2171.805,"body":"school leaders, anybody else within school."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2172.149,"endTime":2175.11,"body":"I'm actually coming to keep the head down, go under the radar at school."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2175.11,"endTime":2181.429,"body":"The problems are very much a community issue, and schools are so well placed to support and"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2181.429,"endTime":2189.315,"body":"and and tackle that as part of a an education response to a community, societal challenge."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2189.315,"endTime":2190.775,"body":"I think that's absolutely key."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2190.915,"endTime":2193.315,"body":"And you you talk about keyboard warriors there."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2193.315,"endTime":2198.855,"body":"I mean, the keyboard warriors are after simple solutions, often extreme solutions to complicated problems."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2200.35,"endTime":2203.17,"body":"One thing I'll say is they don't they don't build statues to critics."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2204.0299999999997,"endTime":2211.79,"body":"Can you tell us a little bit about what sessions practically would look like in score?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2211.79,"endTime":2216.165,"body":"If I was to put camera up in the room where these conversations were happening, what does session look like?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2216.165,"endTime":2217.625,"body":"So I can imagine it in my"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2217.9249999999997,"endTime":2220.745,"body":"head. I think the starting point, this context is key."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2221.045,"endTime":2223.865,"body":"There's no one size fits all."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2224.564,"endTime":2229.045,"body":"And we've talked about community and community context and what have you."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2229.045,"endTime":2232.5899999999997,"body":"We've got to remember every school operates within a different context."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2232.5899999999997,"endTime":2236.67,"body":"So an understanding of the issues, the challenges, and the context within that school and those"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2236.67,"endTime":2240.13,"body":"young people are working is absolutely key for from the starting point."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2240.19,"endTime":2243.97,"body":"And what we tend to do is utilize 3 sort of key approaches."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2244.5899999999997,"endTime":2256.035,"body":"There's that group facilitation, sharing, relevant and and accurate knowledge, either to larger"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2256.035,"endTime":2261.49,"body":"groups of young people and also potentially smaller targeted group work where we can break down"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2261.49,"endTime":2263.19,"body":"and unpack many of those issues."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2263.33,"endTime":2268.23,"body":"And we're talking, yes, we're talking county lines, knife awareness, grooming, etcetera."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2268.5299999999997,"endTime":2273.33,"body":"But also as well, it's about extending our scope to some of the other issues and challenges"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2273.33,"endTime":2275.27,"body":"and risks that young people face themselves."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2276.264,"endTime":2282.125,"body":"We do some work particularly on sort of female focus work around sort of girls empowerment, around positive relationships."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2284.665,"endTime":2289.4049999999997,"body":"Unpacking perhaps joint enterprise a little bit and and so young people understand that actually"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2289.6,"endTime":2295.22,"body":"they can still be guilty of involvement even if they weren't the one who necessarily,"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2295.8399999999997,"endTime":2297.7599999999998,"body":"should we say, inflicted any sorts of injuries."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2297.7599999999998,"endTime":2302.56,"body":"So we talk about joint enterprise, about conspiracy, social media, understanding gateway drugs."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2302.56,"endTime":2309.245,"body":"So what we try to do is utilize, if you like, many different angles, and we would work with"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2309.245,"endTime":2315.9649999999997,"body":"a setting to look at what are the main challenges within that community and how can we best approach that."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2315.9649999999997,"endTime":2318.304,"body":"So facilitation is one method."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2318.96,"endTime":2328.5,"body":"Perhaps the most empowering, method and approach is our embedded mentoring, and this is about developing that trusted relationship."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2329.52,"endTime":2336.225,"body":"It's about actually embedding someone within the fabric of the school, working with young people"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2336.225,"endTime":2339.985,"body":"on a one to one or small group basis over a prolonged period of time."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2339.985,"endTime":2343.665,"body":"Because we've talked about the impact, and we've talked about the ripple effect, and we've talked"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2343.665,"endTime":2347.23,"body":"about embedded change takes time."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2347.23,"endTime":2348.93,"body":"This isn't a tick box exercise."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2349.5499999999997,"endTime":2358.61,"body":"And I think the third aspect of our work, and that this is when we talk about culture, this is absolutely key. It's actually professionals training."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2359.064,"endTime":2363.645,"body":"Tackling that void of understanding that exists within many education professionals."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2364.665,"endTime":2370.105,"body":"And that's not a criticism there, but let's face it, when we're training to be educators, we're"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2370.105,"endTime":2373.804,"body":"not sit down and talk through risk factors indicators around youth violence."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2375.02,"endTime":2383.2799999999997,"body":"So what actually we've got, and and and again, we we see it day in, day out in our work, is a lack of understanding."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2383.58,"endTime":2391.805,"body":"And quite often, we find that young people are more informed than those adults that are trusted, with their safeguarding."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2392.025,"endTime":2397.9649999999997,"body":"So part of our work as well is also about upskilling the knowledge, the understanding, identifying"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2398.185,"endTime":2402.365,"body":"risk factors and indicators of many young people within education professionals."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2402.879,"endTime":2406.1,"body":"We're not saying we have all the solutions because we don't."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2406.3199999999997,"endTime":2411.199,"body":"What we can do is work with professionals to identify those most at risk."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2411.199,"endTime":2417.375,"body":"And again, early identification is absolutely key, but you've gotta know what you're looking for."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2417.455,"endTime":2422.415,"body":"We've gotta be able to join the if you like, join the dots, look at those subtleties, and start"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2422.415,"endTime":2428.594,"body":"to think actually, young person goes missing, has got has got an absent parent."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2429.2149999999997,"endTime":2434.1,"body":"All of a sudden, he's got the Gucci bag, friendship groups have changed, Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2434.1,"endTime":2437.2999999999997,"body":"All of these start to point, towards us."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2437.2999999999997,"endTime":2441.72,"body":"But what we're actually talking about is mapping and supporting professionals in in mapping"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2442.1,"endTime":2447.4,"body":"and in making that informed sort of benchmarking, if you like, of who is actually at risk."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2447.8849999999998,"endTime":2455.665,"body":"Mhmm. And just to if you don't mind me, I had the a point here to here, as as what the session looks like."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2455.725,"endTime":2461.725,"body":"So if you peeping through the window, you wanna see what's going on in the room, what you'd"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2461.725,"endTime":2469.0099999999998,"body":"see, you'd see a fully engaged discussion with a young person."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2469.709,"endTime":2475.889,"body":"Begin with making sure the young person understand that safeguarding is the number one priority here."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2476.0299999999997,"endTime":2482.344,"body":"So if you tell me something that I deem to be a risk for you and other student staff at the"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2482.344,"endTime":2484.605,"body":"school, we are gonna report that."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2484.745,"endTime":2491.805,"body":"So starting the session is confidentiality, safeguarding with, review of, the session before."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2492.2799999999997,"endTime":2498.14,"body":"Then we go into this conversation, whatever the the issue is for that day for that particular young person."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2498.68,"endTime":2504.86,"body":"And so this session is conversational, and it is activity based."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2505.4449999999997,"endTime":2508.504,"body":"So like Steve talked about, for example, joint enterprise."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2509.044,"endTime":2515.764,"body":"If we are using a presentation to demonstrate the consequences around, and the and the knowledge"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2515.764,"endTime":2523.7999999999997,"body":"around joint enterprise, we would not we would not just show the presentation and talk through the presentation. We would demonstrate."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2523.939,"endTime":2529.7999999999997,"body":"So we like to use what we call a tool that says, we tell, explain, describe the TED."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2530.2599999999998,"endTime":2533.88,"body":"So we TELL, we EXPLAIN, and we DESCRIBE."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2534.324,"endTime":2540.665,"body":"And then the young person express his understanding by telling, explaining, and describing."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2541.205,"endTime":2552.16,"body":"And at some point, there's a clear understanding that we are both shared understanding on this. So it's conversational. It's highly, interactive."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2552.7799999999997,"endTime":2557.36,"body":"It is fully engaging, and it is activity based."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2557.8199999999997,"endTime":2563.785,"body":"So I just wanna say if you peep into the window, what you would see, and then you'd see"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2563.785,"endTime":2571.545,"body":"the mentee with, worksheets in front of him or her, and you would have a pen."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2571.545,"endTime":2575.4049999999997,"body":"You'd see the mentor with a  marker, a whiteboard."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2576.0,"endTime":2579.62,"body":"You'd see a monitor screen to show the presentation."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2580.3199999999997,"endTime":2586.24,"body":"And then you'd also see just to make sure that safeguarding is at the, is at the the key, you'd"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2586.24,"endTime":2588.8199999999997,"body":"see a a office phone or a walkie talkie."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2589.225,"endTime":2596.685,"body":"Because the the key is that we are dealing with young people that at some point, we become,"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2597.145,"endTime":2599.4049999999997,"body":"we are involved in a trusted relationship."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2600.265,"endTime":2602.5499999999997,"body":"So they trust you and you trust them."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2603.5099999999998,"endTime":2606.65,"body":"So that's kind of what you would see peeping through that window, Simon."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2607.91,"endTime":2613.209,"body":"Oh, ultimately, we're trying to encourage young people to develop their critical thinking skills."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2613.83,"endTime":2616.81,"body":"And it's about, you know, making those those positive choices."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2616.995,"endTime":2619.795,"body":"I think as well, but there's sort about the structure of the sessions."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2619.795,"endTime":2623.1549999999997,"body":"And I think that's absolutely key because what these aren't do is come and sit down for an hour"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2623.1549999999997,"endTime":2626.1349999999998,"body":"or week and just offload."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2627.1549999999997,"endTime":2631.65,"body":"But we also recognize the fact that sometimes there is a need for that safe space, and there"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2631.65,"endTime":2637.75,"body":"is the need for young people actually to have that conversation about what's happened at the weekend."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2638.37,"endTime":2645.5899999999997,"body":"About, you know, maybe brothers just being being imprisoned or or or have you or something they've seen, heard, experienced."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2647.064,"endTime":2651.324,"body":"So there is that that that that we call it we call it that safe space as well."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2651.625,"endTime":2656.205,"body":"And that's absolutely key because all our work is needs led."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2656.505,"endTime":2659.94,"body":"The young people set the agenda, and we come back to context is key."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2660.1,"endTime":2661.54,"body":"There's no one size fits all."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2661.54,"endTime":2667.7799999999997,"body":"It's about taking the young person, and it's about supporting them in the direction of travel"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2667.7799999999997,"endTime":2670.8399999999997,"body":"that they're going down and actually redirecting as is needed."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2671.2999999999997,"endTime":2672.8399999999997,"body":"That that makes perfect sense."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2673.38,"endTime":2678.881,"body":"And and that's so often true with many of areas of SEMH and support kids' behaviour."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2678.9449999999997,"endTime":2681.365,"body":"That connection is is so important."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2685.665,"endTime":2694.61,"body":"What's unique about the lived experience of your SOS plus mentors and facilitators that enables"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2694.67,"endTime":2700.99,"body":"them to develop these connections and have that sort of cultural understanding and really be"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2700.99,"endTime":2707.745,"body":"able to connect with these students in in ways that other adults have have not been able to in the past?"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2708.125,"endTime":2710.205,"body":"If if you don't mind me take this one, Steve."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2710.205,"endTime":2717.505,"body":"So the lived experience have to be a genuine, transformation."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2718.7999999999997,"endTime":2724.24,"body":"So you can't say you're providing support to young people using your lived experience with 1"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2724.24,"endTime":2727.52,"body":"foot in criminality and 1 foot in in the professional space."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2727.52,"endTime":2735.2149999999997,"body":"It have to be a genuine transformation from past negative and criminal behavior."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2735.2149999999997,"endTime":2736.355,"body":"It have to be clear."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2737.055,"endTime":2743.475,"body":"The lived experience have to be accountable and responsible, and the support have to be consistent."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2744.73,"endTime":2753.709,"body":"So with those 3, it more probable, likely, that you become relatable because you're you're sincere."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2753.85,"endTime":2756.83,"body":"It's not it's not faith. It's not a performance."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2757.5299999999997,"endTime":2763.335,"body":"It's a connected delivery."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2763.475,"endTime":2765.555,"body":"So that's what lived experience is about."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2765.555,"endTime":2775.92,"body":"It's about, authentic transformation, accountability and responsibility, consistency, and most importantly, relate relatability."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2776.38,"endTime":2778.56,"body":"So that's what makes it so unique."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2779.3399999999997,"endTime":2781.98,"body":"I guess kids can smell fake a mile away."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2781.98,"endTime":2787.1,"body":"So when you're talking about authenticity and and reality, where are we gonna take the program next?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2787.1,"endTime":2789.6949999999997,"body":"What's the future for the SOS plus program?"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2789.755,"endTime":2796.235,"body":"Future's looking good. We're we're currently involved with an emergency study with YF, as part"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2796.235,"endTime":2797.515,"body":"of their trusted adult world."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2797.515,"endTime":2803.18,"body":"And what that will do is give us those sort of validated outcomes of our work, which we absolutely"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2803.18,"endTime":2805.42,"body":"fantastic because obviously demonstrate the impact."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2805.42,"endTime":2807.02,"body":"There's so many different facets coming into this."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2807.02,"endTime":2810.56,"body":"Having that valid those validated outcomes will be like gold dust for us."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2811.2599999999998,"endTime":2819.784,"body":"Also very mindful of why do education agendas now, and attendance, well-being, behavior, inclusion,"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2819.9249999999997,"endTime":2824.824,"body":"safeguarding, all very much on that agenda."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2824.9649999999997,"endTime":2830.04,"body":"And what we're starting to see is, as we sort of wake up from the impacts of COVID, you know,"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2830.04,"endTime":2831.98,"body":"again, there's a lot of conversation."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2832.12,"endTime":2834.7799999999997,"body":"We see it now, the impact, exclusions, attendance."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2835.7999999999997,"endTime":2842.939,"body":"And I suppose a real key of our work is a real focus on understanding the underlying issues,"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2844.2149999999997,"endTime":2850.235,"body":"post COVID rather than just sort of focusing just on how the behavior sort of manifested itself."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2850.615,"endTime":2857.0899999999997,"body":"And obviously, you know, our trust out the mentoring is absolutely king as well as working with"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2857.0899999999997,"endTime":2861.11,"body":"education settings to develop that that that understanding and that and that early identification."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2863.5699999999997,"endTime":2871.275,"body":"I suppose bigger picture, political landscape, etcetera, 3 easy wins."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2871.275,"endTime":2873.535,"body":"And I like a broken record in saying this."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2874.875,"endTime":2879.055,"body":"Number 1, make it mandatory as part of teacher training."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2879.835,"endTime":2883.535,"body":"Put a unit in, whether it be within your safeguarding or whatever."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2883.94,"endTime":2890.8199999999997,"body":"So actually what we start to do is as we get those, people come up, future teachers to tomorrow,"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2890.8199999999997,"endTime":2894.58,"body":"they've got that understanding of risk factors, indicators, etcetera, etcetera."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2894.58,"endTime":2897.794,"body":"Everything we've talked about, mandatory. Boom."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2897.794,"endTime":2900.2149999999997,"body":"Number 2, crank it up within safeguarding."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2900.755,"endTime":2903.475,"body":"Your annual safeguarding reviews, let's have more on this."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2903.475,"endTime":2906.834,"body":"You know, one slide with surpassing reference. Come on."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2906.834,"endTime":2908.37,"body":"We can do a bit more than that."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2908.45,"endTime":2913.99,"body":"And number 3, potentially slightly unpopular, a lot of talk about Ofsted at the minute, etcetera, etcetera."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2914.45,"endTime":2916.39,"body":"Can't get up with any inspection guidance."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2916.77,"endTime":2923.055,"body":"Now we saw how, for example, British values a few years back was really projected onto the as"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2923.055,"endTime":2924.495,"body":"part of that inspection framework."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2924.495,"endTime":2929.075,"body":"Actually, schools all of a sudden sat up and took that that that issue a whole lot more seriously."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2929.375,"endTime":2935.475,"body":"Let's put something on the inspection guidance around this as well so it doesn't become that tick box exercise."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2935.535,"endTime":2942.189,"body":"It becomes much more deep rooted, if you like, in terms of entrenched within within the just"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":2942.189,"endTime":2943.409,"body":"the the work of the school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2943.709,"endTime":2946.29,"body":"Yeah. Sustained piece of work over time."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2946.5099999999998,"endTime":2952.825,"body":"That's so let's imagine then that you're a teacher or a school leader listening to this right"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2952.825,"endTime":2959.545,"body":"now or watching this right now, and you don't have access to the kind of support that that your"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2959.545,"endTime":2967.41,"body":"organization provides, and you suspect that one of the students you work with is getting involved in criminality."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2967.47,"endTime":2971.5699999999997,"body":"Maybe they're showing some of the symptoms that you spoke about earlier, poor attendance and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2971.79,"endTime":2973.39,"body":"and changing and shifting peer groups."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2973.39,"endTime":2975.0899999999997,"body":"Maybe they've turned up with a Gucci bag."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2976.4449999999997,"endTime":2981.4249999999997,"body":"What's the first step you can take to support them with that risk of exploitation?"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2982.524,"endTime":2987.9049999999997,"body":"Okay. So as Steve, talked about earlier, we we provide professional training."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2988.764,"endTime":2995.62,"body":"So we're not just in in in this space just to support that, one young person, but we are in"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2995.62,"endTime":2998.58,"body":"the space to support the school in general."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":2998.58,"endTime":3005.415,"body":"So professional training around what is it that we are trying to support the the young person"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3005.415,"endTime":3008.055,"body":"with and how it would impact, the staff."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3008.055,"endTime":3014.1349999999998,"body":"Because to be honest, some of our, our teachers, they're not they're not, you know, quote, unquote,"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3014.1349999999998,"endTime":3016.375,"body":"from the ends, if you if you know what I mean."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3016.375,"endTime":3017.81,"body":"They're not from around the way."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3018.0499999999997,"endTime":3020.13,"body":"So they have there is challenge."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3020.13,"endTime":3022.0699999999997,"body":"That that is a built in challenge."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3022.29,"endTime":3029.35,"body":"So what we do, we try to upskill, professionals in this space in understand that understanding that dynamic."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3029.969,"endTime":3038.205,"body":"One of the thing that, the professionals in this space can do is to, you know, concerns and"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3038.205,"endTime":3044.365,"body":"issue properly identified, take action towards them."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3044.365,"endTime":3047.4249999999997,"body":"Don't sit on something that might seem minute."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3048.2,"endTime":3051.88,"body":"If there is a concern, do something about it."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3051.88,"endTime":3058.14,"body":"St Giles is a charity that support at least vulnerable children and young people and vulnerable adults."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3058.2,"endTime":3061.42,"body":"So St Giles is a prime organization that they should contact."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3061.585,"endTime":3066.705,"body":"And St Giles, like Steve says, is not the only organization that do these things."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3066.705,"endTime":3071.185,"body":"But I think take out the fear factor, the reputational damage fear factor."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3071.185,"endTime":3077.62,"body":"Take that outside the window and and and focus on the need that you're identifying within your"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3077.62,"endTime":3079.7999999999997,"body":"school, your student body."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3079.86,"endTime":3086.04,"body":"And then I think we would be kinda making the right step in the right direction, if I'm making sense."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3086.5,"endTime":3092.8849999999998,"body":"I think it's also important that schools look at a whole school approach where they suspect"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3092.8849999999998,"endTime":3094.9049999999997,"body":"that there might be young people at risk."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3095.285,"endTime":3097.865,"body":"And what we're talking here is actually a cultural shift."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3098.005,"endTime":3102.68,"body":"There's that phrase, culture eats strategy for breakfast and in schools, we can have the best"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3102.68,"endTime":3107.08,"body":"laid plans and intentions because we live an action plan with education, but we haven't got"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3107.08,"endTime":3109.2599999999998,"body":"that culture, particularly around this issue."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3109.88,"endTime":3113.88,"body":"Then those plans never gonna materialize, you know, get to a point within a school setting where,"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3113.88,"endTime":3119.2149999999997,"body":"do you know what, it's okay to talk about lives, it's okay to talk about violence, it's okay"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3119.2149999999997,"endTime":3121.1549999999997,"body":"to challenge that mainstream narrative."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3122.735,"endTime":3130.995,"body":"Look at how we can utilize curriculum to start developing those challenges and build that culture."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3131.2149999999997,"endTime":3138.949,"body":"Yes, education staff training is absolutely key as well, tackling that void of understanding,"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3139.89,"endTime":3145.27,"body":"but also making sure that you've got a school where it's that culture shift, where it's okay."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3145.705,"endTime":3154.365,"body":"Bearing in mind as well, engage your pupils, talk to them about the national picture. What are their views? What are their opinions?"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3156.745,"endTime":3161.2799999999997,"body":"There is no one size fits all in terms of of of tackling this issue. Okay?"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3161.2799999999997,"endTime":3163.14,"body":"Use that phrase, context is key."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3163.8399999999997,"endTime":3171.62,"body":"So but we would absolutely from from from personal experience, be open to that cultural shift to remember, it's okay."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3172.025,"endTime":3175.725,"body":"Let's get our heads out of the sand, and let's start working with young people."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3176.665,"endTime":3181.065,"body":"And for listeners and viewers that want to find out more about your resources and your website,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3181.065,"endTime":3182.345,"body":"how can they get in touch with you?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3182.345,"endTime":3184.045,"body":"How can they find out more about you?"},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3184.585,"endTime":3193.24,"body":"I think, obviously, we're always open to direct contact, education at st Giles trust, all one word, dot org.uk."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3194.66,"endTime":3201.72,"body":"Or you equally, email me directly, steve.warner @ st Giles trust dot org.uk."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3203.2149999999997,"endTime":3205.054,"body":"Also got our our website address."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3205.054,"endTime":3208.594,"body":"Des, you got that the website address for us?"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3209.054,"endTime":3219.0899999999997,"body":"Okay. So it's s t g i l e s t r u s t"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3219.41,"endTime":3224.77,"body":"And we should say here that St Giles here is being spelled s t g I l e s."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3224.77,"endTime":3226.13,"body":"It's not Saint as in the word."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3226.13,"endTime":3227.429,"body":"It's St as in the abbreviation."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3228.794,"endTime":3234.875,"body":"And I will put direct links and copies of those email addresses in the in the comments and the"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3234.875,"endTime":3237.615,"body":"show notes if you're listening on the podcast or to the audio podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3237.6749999999997,"endTime":3240.895,"body":"So all you gotta do is click right through to get the information you need."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3242.2599999999998,"endTime":3245.64,"body":"Desmond and Steve, it's been a pleasure to have you both on the show."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3245.7799999999997,"endTime":3249.54,"body":"I've learned a lot this morning, and I'm sure everyone listening and watching has learned a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3249.54,"endTime":3254.9,"body":"lot that they can practically take away with them to support the kids that they they care for"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3254.9,"endTime":3256.2,"body":"and they teach in school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3256.265,"endTime":3259.645,"body":"So thank you for sharing your experience with us on the show today."},{"speaker":"Steve Warner","startTime":3260.985,"endTime":3261.9649999999997,"body":"Thank you for having us"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3262.345,"endTime":3267.305,"body":"No. No. So for me, I just wanna say a very special thanks for the opportunity to, just to"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3267.305,"endTime":3273.19,"body":"say a few words about, the work that we are doing, and we just wanna give due credit and respect"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3273.19,"endTime":3278.5499999999997,"body":"to our young people who, you know, brave enough, courageous enough to, you know, to walk in"},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3278.5499999999997,"endTime":3282.5499999999997,"body":"our in our spaces and and and to, you know, to accept some of our guidance."},{"speaker":"Desmond Skyers","startTime":3282.5499999999997,"endTime":3284.17,"body":"This is a very amazing thing."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3284.594,"endTime":3289.074,"body":"And that was Desmond Skyers and Steve Warner from the SOS plus program."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3289.074,"endTime":3294.755,"body":"And Saint Giles, I'm sure you'll agree there was lots of food for thought there about how we"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3294.755,"endTime":3300.29,"body":"support our students in school with criminality and how these are complex problems that require"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3300.5899999999997,"endTime":3305.25,"body":"something more than a tick box exercise to tackle in our school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3305.39,"endTime":3308.13,"body":"If you found that useful, please remember to like and share."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3308.5099999999998,"endTime":3313.265,"body":"Share this information with your colleagues, and as promised, I'll make sure that the URLs and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3313.265,"endTime":3319.045,"body":"emails that, Steve and Desmond discussed are in the comments if you're watching this on video"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3319.105,"endTime":3323.765,"body":"or they're in the, episode description if you're listening to the audio version of the podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3324.0,"endTime":3325.2799999999997,"body":"That's all I've got for you today."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":3325.2799999999997,"endTime":3330.58,"body":"I hope you have a brilliant week, and I look forward to seeing you on the next episode of School Behaviour Secrets."}]}