{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":87.50999999999999,"endTime":96.81,"body":"Are you teaching a tough or difficult class where it's difficult to get everyone focused and you can feel the stress boiling up inside?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":97.27,"endTime":102.25,"body":"Or maybe you're a school leader who's in the role of supporting a teacher in the same position."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":102.71499999999999,"endTime":110.315,"body":"Then keep it here, because expert Jessica Werner is going to talk through how to plan an approach to turn things around, how"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":110.315,"endTime":117.28999999999999,"body":"to improve your mental game (a really important part of teaching that isn't often discussed), how to build relationships with"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":117.28999999999999,"endTime":124.88999999999999,"body":"students who challenge the adult, and what to do when you've reached the end of your tether with a class."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":124.88999999999999,"endTime":127.14999999999999,"body":"That's all in this week's School Behaviour Secrets."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":127.60999999999999,"endTime":132.39499999999998,"body":"Welcome to the School Behaviour Secrets podcast. I'm your host, Simon Currigan."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":132.39499999999998,"endTime":139.135,"body":"My co host is Emma Shackleton, and we're obsessed with helping teachers, school leaders, parents, and, of course, students"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":139.195,"endTime":142.095,"body":"when classroom behaviour gets in the way of success."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":142.155,"endTime":148.37,"body":"We're gonna share the tried and tested secrets to classroom management, behavioural special needs, whole school strategy, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":148.37,"endTime":152.39,"body":"more, all with the aim of helping your students reach their true potential."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":152.69,"endTime":159.505,"body":"Plus, we'll be letting you eavesdrop on our conversations with thought leaders from around the world, so you'll get to hear"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":159.505,"endTime":163.225,"body":"the latest evidence based strategies before anyone else."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":163.225,"endTime":167.704,"body":"This is the School Behaviour Secrets podcast. Hi there."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":167.704,"endTime":175.73,"body":"Simon Currigan here from Beacon School Support with this week's episode of School Behaviour Secrets hot off the presses, as"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":175.73,"endTime":183.75,"body":"they say, or they used to say back in the twenties when they had presses, and the presses were indeed hot!"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":184.45,"endTime":191.225,"body":"Thank you for joining me today, and we're gonna cover a topic that I know will be relevant to many of you."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":191.225,"endTime":195.64499999999998,"body":"The subject of how do I best manage a tough class."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":195.944,"endTime":201.865,"body":"We'll be talking to expert Jessica Werner, who's got lots of useful ideas and strategies for you."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":201.865,"endTime":211.20999999999998,"body":"So stay with me for that because let's face it, we all encounter difficult classes that just don't seem to gel from time to time."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":211.35,"endTime":219.065,"body":"And if you don't have one now, well, you are going to meet one soon, and it's better to have this important information ahead of time."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":219.225,"endTime":223.385,"body":"And by the way, if you are struggling with a tricky class, we've got a free download that can help."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":223.385,"endTime":230.744,"body":"It's called the classroom management score sheet, and it gives you an impartial way of analysing what's working in your classroom"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":230.744,"endTime":236.23999999999998,"body":"when it comes to whole class management and how to move things forwards."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":236.23999999999998,"endTime":243.68,"body":"It's also perfect if you're a senior leader looking for a structured way to support a colleague with their classroom management,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":243.68,"endTime":248.5,"body":"and you want to take your advice beyond giving recommendations based on your gut feeling."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":249.045,"endTime":252.245,"body":"You can get the score sheet for free from our website."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":252.245,"endTime":260.745,"body":"I'll put a direct link in the comments if you're watching on YouTube or in the episode description if you're listening to the audio version of the podcast."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":260.805,"endTime":267.64,"body":"And finally, before we press play on the interview, don't forget to like and subscribe to the show if you have not done so already."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":267.64,"endTime":274.76,"body":"It's a small thing, but it really does help to prompt the algorithm to share this information with other teachers and school"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":274.76,"endTime":278.815,"body":"leaders so this information gets out there to the people who need it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":278.815,"endTime":285.395,"body":"And if you're listening to the audio version of the podcast, I'd be really grateful if you could leave us a rating and review."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":285.775,"endTime":291.395,"body":"Not only does this give the show an extra boost, but I love reading what you have to say."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":291.53499999999997,"endTime":296.6,"body":"And now here's my interview with Jessica Werner about managing tough classes."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":297.46000000000004,"endTime":301.0,"body":"It's my pleasure to welcome doctor Jessica Werner to the show today."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":301.22,"endTime":304.44,"body":"Jessica is the founder and CEO of Northshore Learning."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":304.82,"endTime":313.92499999999995,"body":"From teaching across the globe, Jessica has witnessed a common struggle, burnout among educators and declining student behaviour."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":313.92499999999995,"endTime":323.75,"body":"This led her to establish Northshore Learning, a groundbreaking initiative offering personalised life coaching style professional development for teachers."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":324.149,"endTime":331.21000000000004,"body":"Jessica has a PhD in education and expertise in behaviour support, social and emotional learning, and holistic student approaches"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":331.669,"endTime":333.929,"body":"that set her apart through Northshore Learning."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":334.07,"endTime":344.735,"body":"She is passionately committed to retaining quality teachers and creating an inclusive, supportive educational experience for all. Jessica, welcome to the show."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":345.355,"endTime":346.895,"body":"Thank you for having me."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":347.115,"endTime":354.78,"body":"We're here today to talk about managing tough classrooms, which you're sure to come across in your career in teaching even"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":354.78,"endTime":357.43999999999994,"body":"if you've already been teaching for a small amount of time."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":357.9,"endTime":363.28,"body":"So for you, what actually makes a tough class or a difficult class?"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":364.46000000000004,"endTime":368.125,"body":"Yeah. This is funny because it really... it depends on the person."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":368.265,"endTime":377.865,"body":"What is difficult for some is not difficult for others, and we're learning kind of about individual thresholds right"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":377.865,"endTime":382.20500000000004,"body":"now for different behaviours, for how loud the classroom is,"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":382.72,"endTime":392.1,"body":"and so there's not really a good universal answer, but I would say I think of it more from the teacher's standpoint, like the teacher's stress level."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":392.96000000000004,"endTime":398.95500000000004,"body":"It how much stress is this teacher feeling due to student behaviours in their classroom?"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":399.57500000000005,"endTime":406.69500000000005,"body":"So like I said, it's really different for different people, but that's why I like to check-in with the teacher, engage how"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":406.69500000000005,"endTime":409.355,"body":"they are perceiving it because that's all that matters."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":410.61,"endTime":416.37,"body":"And I I guess part of that is, we're all human beings with different tolerances for different kinds of behaviour."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":416.37,"endTime":425.59000000000003,"body":"So one situation might that might trigger or make one person feel stressed is different to another human being in the same building working with other children."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":426.265,"endTime":428.20500000000004,"body":"So it's kind of personalized, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":429.145,"endTime":437.245,"body":"I think it's completely personalised. And I say this, you know, we've worked with hundreds of teachers across the globe, and"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":437.625,"endTime":441.08500000000004,"body":"it really it's such a personal profession anyway."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":441.225,"endTime":446.17999999999995,"body":"Like, we come into teaching because we love what we do and we wanna support the students."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":446.55999999999995,"endTime":451.299,"body":"And the hours you spend in the classroom with your students, they are personal."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":451.35900000000004,"endTime":454.97900000000004,"body":"They're very you know, it's like a family almost."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":455.759,"endTime":465.845,"body":"And so this is why, you know, we we train and we help schools with general behaviour management, understanding student regulation."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":466.225,"endTime":473.91999999999996,"body":"But I think the best work comes when we are able to really partner one on one with teachers and see with our own eyes what their"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":473.91999999999996,"endTime":482.72,"body":"classroom looks like, what they're experiencing, and we can help in real time know things they can do that might be able to"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":482.72,"endTime":485.015,"body":"alleviate the the problems a little bit."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":485.655,"endTime":487.495,"body":"And that one to one work's important, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":487.495,"endTime":493.655,"body":"Because, I mean, I've personally found I'm I've worked with lots of teachers that that a big element to being a successful"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":493.655,"endTime":499.55999999999995,"body":"teacher is having your head in the right place, having a strong mental game, Whomever, you know, you you've got in front of"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":499.55999999999995,"endTime":505.26,"body":"you, if you're kind of, like, emotionally not in a good place, then it affects your teachings."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":505.55999999999995,"endTime":508.14,"body":"It affects your teaching in in all kinds of ways."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":508.91999999999996,"endTime":516.445,"body":"So what what is the impact of teaching tough classes on those individual teachers and teaching assistants who are working"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":516.445,"endTime":519.025,"body":"in the room who are finding it difficult?"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":520.125,"endTime":523.84,"body":"You're right. The mental game is critical. It's absolutely critical."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":524.78,"endTime":529.28,"body":"Right now, the toll is really high levels of stress."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":529.9,"endTime":539.035,"body":"We are hearing about lots of teacher absenteeism and as parents, we have a child who is 12 and a child who is 9,"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":539.035,"endTime":544.475,"body":"just hearing about the amount of substitute teachers coming in and out of their buildings tells us that this is a legitimate"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":544.475,"endTime":549.275,"body":"concern, but that's due to stress and burnout, really."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":549.275,"endTime":557.08,"body":"It's due to, you know, just feeling overwhelmed by the workload, feeling overwhelmed by the student needs."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":557.22,"endTime":564.12,"body":"And there, you know, there is what there is in the classroom and then there's all the pieces that are coming from the outside"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":564.26,"endTime":568.625,"body":"and from, you know, here in the states, it's our state departments of education."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":569.324,"endTime":577.66,"body":"And so just the needs and the responsibilities keep piling up and it's really it's translating into teachers burning out and"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":577.66,"endTime":583.28,"body":"either, like I said, being absent, needing more days off, or just leaving the profession entirely."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":583.98,"endTime":585.9,"body":"And it it's worth touching on as well, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":585.9,"endTime":595.455,"body":"I mean, we were talking before this, before we started recording, and we were talking about how it's not we were talking about this. It's it's not navel gazing."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":595.455,"endTime":601.7950000000001,"body":"It's not us saying, oh, worries us as teachers because then there's an impact on the kids, and the kids are the important thing."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":602.735,"endTime":612.869,"body":"So we know I mean, there's current research telling us that a major impact on student achievement and student well-being is teacher well-being."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":613.33,"endTime":616.0500000000001,"body":"So it matters how the teachers show up."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":616.0500000000001,"endTime":618.21,"body":"It matters the state of mind they're in."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":618.21,"endTime":626.2950000000001,"body":"And usually when we're working with schools or groups around understanding behaviour management with kids, we always start with the teacher themselves."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":626.355,"endTime":631.975,"body":"We always start with kind of recognising our own triggers, recognising how we show up."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":632.114,"endTime":635.494,"body":"We tell the people we work with, you're the CEO of your classroom."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":635.635,"endTime":640.66,"body":"You're the chief energy officer because your energy transfers."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":641.4390000000001,"endTime":648.179,"body":"And so, no, it truly we know how important it is to understand and be supporting teacher well-being."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":649.2,"endTime":653.015,"body":"And, yeah, it's not just about the adult in the room."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":653.015,"endTime":655.275,"body":"We see the impact on the kids as well."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":656.215,"endTime":659.015,"body":"All change starts with some form of plan."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":659.015,"endTime":665.994,"body":"You have to kind of visualize in your head where you wanna get to and the steps involved before you can enact that change."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":666.695,"endTime":671.1700000000001,"body":"So at the start of the process, you've got a tough class in front of you, a difficult class."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":671.47,"endTime":673.57,"body":"How do how do you put a plan together? What's important?"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":674.749,"endTime":677.489,"body":"First of all, I think you do this before you even meet your students."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":677.869,"endTime":688.195,"body":"I think you do this before school starts and you structure yourself with really explicit routines and procedures, and then"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":688.195,"endTime":696.41,"body":"no matter who shows up to class in the new year, you spend a lot of time teaching those routines and procedures to your students. It's huge."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":697.109,"endTime":704.39,"body":"But if you find yourself in a situation where you need some triage, honestly, the first thing and it's not the first thing"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":704.39,"endTime":711.0450000000001,"body":"that occurs to most people because, again, because of the personal feeling of education, a lot of people feel like if I have"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":711.0450000000001,"endTime":716.025,"body":"this tough class, it's a reflection on me as a person, and they don't seek support."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":716.244,"endTime":724.14,"body":"But I think the number one thing you should do is seek some outside support and not be afraid, not be embarrassed, not be"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":724.14,"endTime":726.78,"body":"ashamed because I can tell you right now, it's worldwide"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":727.1800000000001,"endTime":736.865,"body":"And I think it's interesting that when someone kind of opens up, say, in the staff room and they start saying, you know, I'm finding this tough. I'm 2 months in. I'm really struggling with this class."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":737.1850000000001,"endTime":739.585,"body":"It's amazing how many other people will say, yeah."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":739.585,"endTime":740.865,"body":"I had that class and I struggled."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":740.865,"endTime":742.785,"body":"Or I I'm finding my class right now difficult."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":742.785,"endTime":746.865,"body":"And you you start to develop these sort of empathetic bonds with each other."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":746.865,"endTime":750.6800000000001,"body":"You realize you're not the only person in this boat in this school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":750.6800000000001,"endTime":756.28,"body":"And then, like you say, multiply that out across the profession. This this isn't about weakness."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":756.28,"endTime":759.74,"body":"This is about finding bonds together and finding ways forwards."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":760.6,"endTime":770.125,"body":"Yeah. And perhaps for administrators listening, it's important to know to really, like, establish a culture with your teachers that we don't expect perfection."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":770.4250000000001,"endTime":774.365,"body":"We know you're gonna struggle, and here are the ways we'll help you."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":774.585,"endTime":781.89,"body":"And I guess an important message for many teachers to hear is turning around a class can take time. So it's about okay."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":781.95,"endTime":784.6700000000001,"body":"This is the old, the old fitness adage. You know?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":784.6700000000001,"endTime":786.75,"body":"It's not a it's about progress, not perfection."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":786.75,"endTime":790.37,"body":"It's about taking steps because these things take take time."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":791.5500000000001,"endTime":795.09,"body":"Progress, not perfection is, like, our motto in schools."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":796.215,"endTime":807.4150000000001,"body":"It is and it's so hard for teachers because so many of us, myself included, we tend to be perfectionists, and we idealize the way things should be."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":807.4150000000001,"endTime":812.61,"body":"So it's really tough when you get into the weeds, and it doesn't look the way you want it to."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":812.61,"endTime":818.7900000000001,"body":"But that's the beauty of our work where we're able to return to classrooms several times during the year."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":818.9300000000001,"endTime":825.35,"body":"We see the progress and we're able to tell our teachers, oh my gosh, your transitions were so smooth."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":825.705,"endTime":832.505,"body":"You know, this student who really struggled the last time we were here, he was engaged for half the lesson."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":832.505,"endTime":835.465,"body":"That's, you know, it's not perfection, but that's huge progress."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":835.465,"endTime":839.405,"body":"And sometimes when you're in it, you can't see it as clearly as an outsider."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":839.999,"endTime":845.6800000000001,"body":"You see the difference when you go in periodically as opposed to being there all day."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":845.6800000000001,"endTime":850.72,"body":"Because when you're there all day, often, I think teachers are guilty to seeing what's wrong and what's not working."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":850.72,"endTime":854.975,"body":"They they don't see that gradual progress unless they've got someone to talk to."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":855.775,"endTime":863.0550000000001,"body":"Well, it's not it's not our fault that, you know, we our our brains are conditioned to focus on the negative and on the the"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":863.0550000000001,"endTime":866.575,"body":"potential, threats, and so that is what we see."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":866.575,"endTime":873.89,"body":"We see that is what stands in the forefront of our minds, and it is really tricky to get out of that and to start turning"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":873.89,"endTime":877.19,"body":"it around into what what is working better than it was yesterday."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":877.57,"endTime":879.91,"body":"Okay. So let's imagine you're a teacher."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":879.97,"endTime":882.705,"body":"You're at the front of the room. It's a tough class."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":882.705,"endTime":885.345,"body":"You can feel the behaviour sliding away from you."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":885.345,"endTime":891.025,"body":"I often describe it actually, like, you can feel the it's almost like the sand is shifting beneath your feet."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":891.025,"endTime":896.87,"body":"You can feel behaviour kind of escaping. What practical tips do you have?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":896.87,"endTime":901.2900000000001,"body":"What sort of strategies should we be using if we find ourselves in that situation?"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":902.87,"endTime":906.89,"body":"So I've been in that situation many times as a teacher."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":907.83,"endTime":919.025,"body":"I know I know that exact moment you're talking about where it's like, I am losing them or they are lost. I know that moment. It was very stressful. And I see it."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":919.025,"endTime":922.1700000000001,"body":"I see it happening in real time with others as well. Okay."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":922.1700000000001,"endTime":926.429,"body":"So really this goes back to us as the adult, as the CEO."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":927.53,"endTime":937.1750000000001,"body":"It is okay to give yourself 20 seconds, 5 seconds, 1 minute to regroup. You actually kind of have to."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":937.4150000000001,"endTime":945.335,"body":"You have to right your own ship and kind of even if it's just like I tell people walk sometimes just moving from where you"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":945.335,"endTime":953.549,"body":"are is enough to kind of click your brain out of its space and help you reset or take a deep breath or say to the students,"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":954.01,"endTime":958.83,"body":"I've I've had people do this before, you know what? I need 20 seconds."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":959.21,"endTime":966.875,"body":"We're gonna take, you know, we're all just gonna take some deep breaths for 20 seconds And it's more for them than for the students."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":968.135,"endTime":976.5550000000001,"body":"But again, this is kinda counterintuitive for people because we have sometimes it's hard to admit to ourselves that that we need to reset."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":976.9350000000001,"endTime":984.0400000000001,"body":"And then it feels it feels almost like I'm giving away my power if if the students know I need this too."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":984.0400000000001,"endTime":991.1800000000001,"body":"But what I think is amazing about it is it normalizes for everybody that this is how we can help ourselves when we're starting"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":991.32,"endTime":994.725,"body":"to feel very stressed out or out of control."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":994.725,"endTime":996.345,"body":"So it's actually a really good technique."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":996.8050000000001,"endTime":1004.4250000000001,"body":"But yeah, it's, you want to lean in and you want to dive in and you want to start fixing behaviour problems and engaging."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1004.645,"endTime":1014.5400000000001,"body":"But my advice is to like, just try and develop the self awareness in that moment to disengage, reset the ship, and then try again."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1015.96,"endTime":1023.365,"body":"So you're saying kind of it's not about taking any action and running around trying to, you know, implement lots of fixes immediately."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1023.825,"endTime":1035.44,"body":"It's more valuable to step back for 10, 20 seconds, get that calmness, be able to think more strategically about what needs"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1035.44,"endTime":1038.0,"body":"to happen next, and then role modeling what it looks like."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1038.0,"endTime":1039.36,"body":"When things get a bit frantic, say, hey."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1039.36,"endTime":1041.2,"body":"It's getting a bit frantic in here. Right?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1041.2,"endTime":1043.76,"body":"Everyone, this is how we right the ship."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1043.76,"endTime":1046.58,"body":"Is is that the kind of approach? Oh, I understood that correctly?"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1048.205,"endTime":1053.585,"body":"Yes. We we know that emotions are contagious and calm is contagious."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1054.445,"endTime":1062.23,"body":"And usually when we're at a point where we were stressed, we're nearing our own dysregulation and you feel that."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1062.71,"endTime":1073.99,"body":"And so, yes, that's why kind of step 1 is to yourself regulate because our our tendency and our inclination is to match match"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1073.99,"endTime":1080.545,"body":"the student energy, but really we need to reset the energy so they they have the opportunity to match us."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1081.485,"endTime":1091.81,"body":"And this is something I work on as a parent also because, like, I, as a parent, you you feel the same things happening and it's really hard."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1091.81,"endTime":1095.67,"body":"So I admit, like, this is really hard. This is like next level stuff."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1095.8899999999999,"endTime":1103.11,"body":"But it's the you have you kind of have no hope of de escalation for your class if you're escalated as well."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1103.25,"endTime":1108.725,"body":"And so or you have a lot more hope if if they have a model to match."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1108.725,"endTime":1113.5249999999999,"body":"And it's sometimes sometimes I'm trying to think of things that help."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1113.5249999999999,"endTime":1116.0249999999999,"body":"I worked with a teacher for many years who taught kindergarten."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1116.165,"endTime":1118.105,"body":"She had a very, very tough classroom."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1118.6299999999999,"endTime":1122.1699999999998,"body":"She would walk back when she started to recognise it."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1122.23,"endTime":1128.8899999999999,"body":"She would leave the front of the room, walk back to her desk, take a sniff of a lavender candle just for herself."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1129.03,"endTime":1132.49,"body":"It was like, that was enough to kind of reset her brain."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1132.675,"endTime":1137.875,"body":"If it's really bad, again, ask for somebody to cover for you for 5 minutes."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1137.875,"endTime":1144.915,"body":"Go outside, get ahead of fresh air, come back because nothing good is gonna come."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1144.915,"endTime":1148.8899999999999,"body":"You're not gonna get what you want when you and your students are both heightened."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1149.11,"endTime":1154.09,"body":"You'll have a lot better chance and then you can start putting in place, you can start the directives."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1155.6699999999998,"endTime":1164.875,"body":"But things like turning off the lights for yourself, and it helps it helps your own parents and parasympathetic nervous system calm down."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1165.0149999999999,"endTime":1166.7949999999998,"body":"It has the same effect on the students."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1167.495,"endTime":1171.8349999999998,"body":"So this is kinda like regulation before direction and instruction. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1172.215,"endTime":1180.6799999999998,"body":"Oh, absolutely. Coregulation. Like, we talk a lot in our work with with, teachers about understanding student regulation,"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1180.82,"endTime":1185.7199999999998,"body":"and then the ability to coregulate is really critical in helping the students regulate."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1186.26,"endTime":1198.5649999999998,"body":"So there's a there's kind of a a 'teacher law' in inverted commas about managing classes, but tough classes especially, which is consistency is key. Without consistency, you're you're gonna struggle."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1199.105,"endTime":1206.59,"body":"What I'm interested in, and I've become more interested in this over the last few years, is the interplay and the tension"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1207.29,"endTime":1216.5949999999998,"body":"between how do we manage the whole class and have that consistency and then being flexible in supporting kids with social, emotional, mental health needs."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1217.235,"endTime":1220.5339999999999,"body":"How do you manage that tension in a successful way?"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1221.395,"endTime":1224.0549999999998,"body":"Well, I do agree with you. I think consistency is key."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1224.115,"endTime":1226.0549999999998,"body":"Like, it's one of the most important things."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1226.675,"endTime":1233.5,"body":"And, you know, in the beginning of the year, when you're teaching your when you're teaching your procedures, when you're practicing"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1233.639,"endTime":1241.4199999999998,"body":"it over and over, it's also okay to explain that flexibility is important."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1242.04,"endTime":1244.675,"body":"And that, and this is a good life lesson for kids."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1244.675,"endTime":1246.7749999999999,"body":"People need different things to be successful."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1247.7949999999998,"endTime":1256.0549999999998,"body":"And and we know this, you know, some kids can't sit for long periods of time and be successful. So we let them stand."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1256.2749999999999,"endTime":1263.1589999999999,"body":"Others can sit, you know, and just reiterating this to students that we all need different things to be successful."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1263.4599999999998,"endTime":1268.6,"body":"Kids with social emotional issues are basically everyone right now. Like, that's universal."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1268.899,"endTime":1272.1999999999998,"body":"All the kids are having high social emotional needs."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1272.465,"endTime":1277.605,"body":"Even the kids you don't you think are just fine. They have needs as well."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1278.5449999999998,"endTime":1287.4499999999998,"body":"The prevalence of anxiety is absolutely off the charts and it presents so differently in kids that or in people that sometimes"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1287.4499999999998,"endTime":1289.31,"body":"we don't recognise it for what it is."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1289.37,"endTime":1298.35,"body":"So, again, just being able to talk to students about differences in a way that I'm not, I'm not playing favourites."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1299.205,"endTime":1302.5049999999999,"body":"I'm giving this student what they need to be successful."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1303.2849999999999,"endTime":1305.7849999999999,"body":"Just like I give you what you need to be successful."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1307.0449999999998,"endTime":1316.6599999999999,"body":"And, and there's also, it's knowing as a teacher the difference between willful behaviour or willful activities and kids with"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1316.6599999999999,"endTime":1320.1999999999998,"body":"disabilities who are unable to control what they're doing."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1320.8999999999999,"endTime":1330.0849999999998,"body":"And, you know, it's difficult in classrooms because a lot of times those, the students who have special needs, they don't look any different than anybody. They have you know, hidden disabilities."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1330.465,"endTime":1333.524,"body":"My own 2 children count under this umbrella."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1333.985,"endTime":1341.185,"body":"But that's why I think these conversations with students are really important right away and often how everybody has different needs."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1341.185,"endTime":1344.165,"body":"And I'm going to be paying attention to yours as well."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1344.59,"endTime":1348.2099999999998,"body":"And sometimes we're gonna have to be flexible in the way we approach things."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1348.83,"endTime":1353.01,"body":"And kids can be super empathetic. I remember even really young kids."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1353.31,"endTime":1356.9099999999999,"body":"I remember I used to teach, year 1 a lot. So that's 5 and 6 year olds."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1356.9099999999999,"endTime":1362.0049999999999,"body":"And you could talk to them about these things on a basic level, and they'd nod and they'd understand. And they say, yeah. That's fair."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1362.0049999999999,"endTime":1363.5249999999999,"body":"This isn't fair and that's fair."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1363.5249999999999,"endTime":1369.205,"body":"Having those conversations with them and and making the implicit explicit so they understand why you're doing the things you're"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1369.205,"endTime":1370.8249999999998,"body":"doing can can have a real impact."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1371.57,"endTime":1381.83,"body":"You're right. These kids, especially this generation, I'm noticing, they are highly empathetic, and they are very clever. They see things in each other. They're solving problems."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1382.05,"endTime":1388.665,"body":"They have they're developing more of a social emotional language and capacity than than I've seen in other generations."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1388.665,"endTime":1393.245,"body":"So I think there's a lot of hope, and we shouldn't underestimate what they can understand."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1394.985,"endTime":1403.31,"body":"So while we're talking about social and emotional issues and connections, what can we do as the adult to build relationships"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1403.61,"endTime":1411.07,"body":"with students who kind of resist those relationships and constantly challenge authority or the person at the front of the room?"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1411.29,"endTime":1418.0649999999998,"body":"So I have my 9 year old son is in 4th grade, and he has a regulation disorder."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1418.925,"endTime":1422.7839999999999,"body":"Or so it's been, you know, diagnosed. It's kind of a new diagnosis."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1423.165,"endTime":1430.6599999999999,"body":"As of 2013, they started noticing behaviour issues in kids that didn't fall into the other categories that they had."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1431.4599999999998,"endTime":1438.9199999999998,"body":"So my son, he's the child in class who is craving the attention of the teacher."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1439.1399999999999,"endTime":1445.8,"body":"He wants to be he wants, like, positive attention. He wants to be loved. He wants to be noticed."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1446.154,"endTime":1455.915,"body":"But he the way he shows that is the opposite of somebody you would wanna give positive attention to."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1455.915,"endTime":1457.5949999999998,"body":"And he can't he can't help it."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1457.5949999999998,"endTime":1466.36,"body":"And again, our inclination with kids like him is to lean out, To be like, oh, you know, this, I don't know what he, he won't talk to me."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1466.36,"endTime":1470.54,"body":"I don't know what to talk about. He doesn't want to engage. It's the opposite."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1471.0,"endTime":1477.125,"body":"So I always recommend to teachers spend a lot of time, and this is any grade that you teach."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1477.125,"endTime":1480.905,"body":"This is secondary, this is nursery, this is everybody."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1481.7649999999999,"endTime":1491.3899999999999,"body":"And spend some time just talking or getting to know your students in a way that promotes what we call universal positive regard,"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1491.529,"endTime":1495.55,"body":"which is I care about you just for who you are, not for what you do."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1496.25,"endTime":1504.155,"body":"And the way we can promote that is just by asking questions about what they like and dislike, learning more about them or"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1504.155,"endTime":1506.735,"body":"simply saying, I'm really glad you're in my class."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1507.435,"endTime":1512.2549999999999,"body":"You know, and it's not contingent on them acting a certain way or producing grades."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1512.395,"endTime":1518.06,"body":"It's just I'm glad you're here and over time that builds up. You might not see it."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1518.06,"endTime":1521.6589999999999,"body":"You might not see the results right away, but it builds up."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1521.6589999999999,"endTime":1529.76,"body":"So leaning in, like, lean in with with relationships, but especially with the ones that you don't want to lean into necessarily,"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1529.98,"endTime":1533.3149999999998,"body":"they're probably the ones who need it the most. And it'll it'll help."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1533.615,"endTime":1536.675,"body":"You will see you will see the results, but it might take time."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1537.615,"endTime":1539.7749999999999,"body":"Yeah. And and sticking with those strategies."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1539.7749999999999,"endTime":1546.8149999999998,"body":"People want kind of, like, instant magic wand style strategy sometimes because when you run it and you're stressed, I completely understand that."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1546.8149999999998,"endTime":1548.8,"body":"You want that stress to go away."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1548.9399999999998,"endTime":1558.2199999999998,"body":"But sometimes it it requires you to stick with something that appears like it's not working immediately, but then it does have that gradual impact over time."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1558.2199999999998,"endTime":1561.119,"body":"And before you know it, you're in a different situation."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1562.0339999999999,"endTime":1569.475,"body":"So when when it feels like the day's gone wrong and it's, I don't know, 2 o'clock in the afternoon and you're already thinking"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1569.475,"endTime":1579.859,"body":"about pop popping open that bottle of chardonay that you got in the kitchen at home, you're exhausted maybe at the end of your emotional tether. I'm asking for a friend. What what then?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1579.859,"endTime":1581.399,"body":"How do you, how do you keep going?"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1581.6999999999998,"endTime":1590.1,"body":"I'm not gonna be popular with some, like, policymakers and administrators, but there are times a day where our learning our"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1590.1,"endTime":1592.84,"body":"capacity to learn is higher than others."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1593.215,"endTime":1600.915,"body":"At the end of the day is not one of those times. We know this. We know this about our brains. We know this about our students."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1601.0549999999998,"endTime":1612.4299999999998,"body":"We also feel a great amount of pressure to get through content, but sometimes it's better and it's healthier to maybe spend that last half hour hour."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1612.9699999999998,"endTime":1620.33,"body":"If you're having one of those awful days, if content isn't hitting anyway, focus on community building, go outside, take the"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1620.33,"endTime":1627.415,"body":"students outside, take a walk, focus on community, do an exercise together, do an activity, pull out some crayons."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1627.415,"endTime":1630.635,"body":"Again, I don't care what grade you teach, this is helpful."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1630.855,"endTime":1634.5549999999998,"body":"I do it with adults all the time. Do something different."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1635.2549999999999,"endTime":1641.07,"body":"Don't lean into the content if you're not gonna, if you're not gonno go anywhere with the content. It's counterproductive."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1642.009,"endTime":1647.369,"body":"So giving yourself the flexibility to know when you've hit the wall and when your students have hit the wall."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1647.369,"endTime":1653.165,"body":"And again, I'm very sympathetic because I know how much content everybody has to get through."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1653.705,"endTime":1662.8249999999998,"body":"But it almost makes more sense to pull away from it and come back another time and try and just end on a positive note, end"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1662.8249999999998,"endTime":1672.6,"body":"on community, end on end on art, end on something, end on taking a walk, some nature, than to really try and tough it out"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1672.6,"endTime":1674.9399999999998,"body":"and get through the math the math unit."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1675.56,"endTime":1683.955,"body":"I think that's an important lesson there because you what you're talking about is practical social activities."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1684.975,"endTime":1691.695,"body":"And what a lot of people will do nowadays when they're tired and or maybe they've got, like, 10 minutes left because they've"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1691.695,"endTime":1697.31,"body":"they've underrun on something, What I see a lot of is people banging on a YouTube video to fill the time."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1697.61,"endTime":1702.49,"body":"Whereas in the past, it would have been a discussion or you would have shared a book or or or done a little bit of a or or"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1702.49,"endTime":1705.1499999999999,"body":"whatever it is and had that moment of social connection."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1705.925,"endTime":1709.384,"body":"Yeah. Connections are never going to go to waste."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1709.524,"endTime":1719.9199999999998,"body":"So anytime you invest in relationships, community, and connections, it's never gonna be wasted time. But I definitely yeah. I see this all the time."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1719.9199999999998,"endTime":1722.5,"body":"You know, we've got 10 minutes, throw on a video."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1723.1999999999998,"endTime":1726.1589999999999,"body":"Again, I love and I live in a state."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1726.1589999999999,"endTime":1733.54,"body":"I live in a state in the US where it is very much winter for about 6 months out of the year. I live in Minnesota."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1734.3349999999998,"endTime":1741.7949999999998,"body":"But again, we are just we're seeing so much positive data around well-being and nature. Take them outside."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1741.855,"endTime":1745.635,"body":"And I tell people here the same thing and they look at me like I'm crazy."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1745.7749999999999,"endTime":1760.84,"body":"But again, getting a little fresh air, no matter how cold, or in some of our schools, no matter how hot it is, it's really helpful. Having them move. Oh, my gosh. Moving is underrated. We don't do it enough. Have have the students move around."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1761.115,"endTime":1763.0349999999999,"body":"Take, like I said, take a walk. Partner up."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1763.0349999999999,"endTime":1769.2949999999998,"body":"Take partner up with somebody and give a discussion question or give a question based on something they've learned."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1769.5949999999998,"endTime":1773.615,"body":"Like, we know that this kind of activity helps us retain learning."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1773.9699999999998,"endTime":1780.61,"body":"So there are lots of ways, there are lots of ways to do it, but I always say especially with the younger students, I call"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1780.61,"endTime":1784.9499999999998,"body":"it like 2 o'clock the witching hour because they were done, like in 1st grade."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1785.57,"endTime":1789.654,"body":"They've eaten, now they're tired, they're they're done."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1789.654,"endTime":1794.215,"body":"You're not gonna you're not gonna do any meaningful learning after 2 o'clock."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1794.215,"endTime":1801.81,"body":"Like I said, I know this doesn't make me very popular, with those who are, like, get through the content, but it it's what"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1801.81,"endTime":1805.03,"body":"we know about brains and a lot of the work we do is based in neuroscience."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1805.1699999999998,"endTime":1811.1899999999998,"body":"We have 2 neuroscientists on our team of consultants who help reinforce this for us."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1811.49,"endTime":1818.665,"body":"What is the brain telling us that it needs And how do we, how do we work within what our brain can and can't do?"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1818.665,"endTime":1822.365,"body":"And when it, when it's, when it can't do it, it can't do it."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1823.0649999999998,"endTime":1834.84,"body":"So finding, finding a different solution is okay and giving people that permission, It is okay. I know my class. I know these kids. This isn't gonna work right now. I need a plan B."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1835.6999999999998,"endTime":1842.3249999999998,"body":"Of course, if you're the adult and you feel stressed and you've got cortisol or adrenaline in your system, actually physically"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1842.3249999999998,"endTime":1844.3249999999998,"body":"moving around is a way of draining that away."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1844.3249999999998,"endTime":1851.225,"body":"So so it's healthy for you as well as the kids who may have loads of energy that they need need to kinda kinda dissipate."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1852.5649999999998,"endTime":1859.56,"body":"So if you're a teacher or, say, a school leader listening to this podcast, what's the first step that you could take today,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1860.58,"endTime":1865.32,"body":"the first practical thing you could do to turn around a difficult class?"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1866.995,"endTime":1869.875,"body":"I would say okay, it's kind of two different things in my head."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1869.875,"endTime":1880.1899999999998,"body":"So for school leaders, maybe finding a way to check-in with your teachers because I unfortunately, there's usually a disconnect"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1880.4099999999999,"endTime":1888.03,"body":"in the schools we work in between how the administrator sees classroom management going and how it is going."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1888.9699999999998,"endTime":1897.5449999999998,"body":"Because in a lot of cases, if they're not getting office referrals or they're not seeing teachers crying in the hallway, they think things are probably fine."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1897.925,"endTime":1906.8249999999998,"body":"Whereas in the classrooms, the teachers are trying their hardest not to need administrator help. So there's this, like, mismatch."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1907.0449999999998,"endTime":1909.79,"body":"So for administrators, check-in with your teachers."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1909.79,"endTime":1919.4699999999998,"body":"Maybe it's a survey, maybe it's, like, an outsider coming in, supporting the teachers, getting, taking in the pulse of how"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1919.4699999999998,"endTime":1925.455,"body":"they're doing, but really check-in with your teachers and see if you can get some honest, some honest feedback, qualitative"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1925.675,"endTime":1931.455,"body":"feedback around where their struggles are, what they could use support in, and what's going well."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1931.7549999999999,"endTime":1938.495,"body":"And then for teachers, oh gosh, again, don't be afraid to ask for help."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1939.6599999999999,"endTime":1947.74,"body":"My 1st year of teaching was a complete nightmare and what I waited too long to do was ask anybody to help me because I think"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1947.74,"endTime":1950.56,"body":"the ego and the pride was like, I can do this."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1951.02,"endTime":1953.84,"body":"I've always wanted to be a teacher. I can do this."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1954.115,"endTime":1960.375,"body":"So reaching out for support, to a mentor, to your administrator."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1960.5149999999999,"endTime":1968.455,"body":"I mean, there are groups like ours and like yours that exist to help schools with these things so that people don't have to do this by themselves."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1969.1899999999998,"endTime":1972.649,"body":"But, yeah, definitely keeping it bottled in is really tough."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1972.7099999999998,"endTime":1982.7549999999999,"body":"So, yeah, just having conversations with other teachers to to help know that you're not alone is really important."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1983.0549999999998,"endTime":1993.695,"body":"Otherwise, it just kind of, you know, the stress kind of builds, and we feel worse, and we feel, ashamed, and there's no reason"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":1993.695,"endTime":1996.355,"body":"for it because it's this is a hard job."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":1996.9599999999998,"endTime":2004.82,"body":"The the issue that you raised there about the difference in perspectives between school leaders and teachers in the room,"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2005.84,"endTime":2011.925,"body":"there's some data I've seen that really backs that up that that might be worth if you're a school leader, it might be worth referring to."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2011.925,"endTime":2017.8449999999998,"body":"In in in Britain, we have a national behaviour survey every year, and they ask school leaders and teachers the same questions."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2017.8449999999998,"endTime":2022.9499999999998,"body":"And I don't have the figures off the top of my head, but one of them is something like behaviour is good in this school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2023.1899999999998,"endTime":2028.31,"body":"And school leaders, it's something like 85% of school leaders agree that behaviour is good in their school."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2028.31,"endTime":2037.2099999999998,"body":"When you look at what school teachers think, it drops down by about 25, 35 25, 30 points down to about 55, 60%, something like that."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2037.3249999999998,"endTime":2042.365,"body":"So I I think if you're a school leader listening to actually doing the work and going and not making assumptions based on"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2042.365,"endTime":2046.945,"body":"what you see, but talking to people, I think it's great advice. So thank you for that."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2047.965,"endTime":2051.565,"body":"And I would add into that, ask the students as well."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2051.565,"endTime":2056.88,"body":"So we get a lot of interesting information around classroom behaviours from our own kids."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2057.7400000000002,"endTime":2064.48,"body":"So I knew, you know, last year I knew which classrooms had the most disruption."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2064.62,"endTime":2069.545,"body":"I mean, the kids, they, they feel it as well because they feel their learning being disrupted."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2070.165,"endTime":2075.545,"body":"So I would say, like, even asking this is a novel idea, but asking the students."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2076.165,"endTime":2082.745,"body":"Jessica, how can, viewers and listeners find out more about your resources and the work that you're doing in schools?"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2084.06,"endTime":2086.2400000000002,"body":"So our website is northshorelearning.org,"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2088.86,"endTime":2092.96,"body":"and or you're welcome to reach out to me personally. Jess.northshore@gmail.com."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2098.524,"endTime":2105.505,"body":"But, yeah, please just I tell I tell people everywhere, just know that there there are supports out there. They do exist."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2105.6440000000002,"endTime":2113.825,"body":"I don't know if you get this as well, but a lot of times when we're introduced to a new school, they say, oh, I'm so glad something like this is out there. I didn't even know."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2114.35,"endTime":2122.61,"body":"And so part of this is just spreading awareness that there are supports and there are groups like ours and like yours who"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2122.91,"endTime":2130.335,"body":"want to see good, committed teachers feeling good, staying in schools, being able to support our kids."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2131.195,"endTime":2133.295,"body":"Finally, we ask this of all our guests."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2133.595,"endTime":2139.855,"body":"Who is the key figure or what's the key book that you've read that's had the biggest impact on your approach to working with children?"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2141.2999999999997,"endTime":2143.08,"body":"I actually thought about this for a while."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2144.74,"endTime":2149.3199999999997,"body":"This might be a different kind of answer, but it's been my 9 year old son."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2149.54,"endTime":2161.485,"body":"My 9 year old son who has this regulation disorder has taught me more about behaviour than I learned in all my years of teaching."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2161.485,"endTime":2173.419,"body":"And it threw a lot of my assumptions out the window about parenting, about what, how parents impacted their kids' behaviour, what kids needed to be successful."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2173.7999999999997,"endTime":2182.54,"body":"It has really, it's opened up a whole new world to me, which I'm so, it's been difficult, but I'm so grateful for it because"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2182.679,"endTime":2191.625,"body":"now I see kids like him everywhere in all the classes and because of all all the work we've done and all the things we've"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2191.625,"endTime":2195.084,"body":"tried, I'm able to really help teachers."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2196.14,"endTime":2203.74,"body":"And to say things like I said earlier, like, I just because my son isn't engaging with you and hugging you at the end of the"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2203.74,"endTime":2210.554,"body":"day, it doesn't mean he doesn't love you and love being in your class and feel how much you love him."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2210.554,"endTime":2219.1949999999997,"body":"And those are things I didn't know, you know, I made a lot of assumptions before about what the students, who they were and"},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2219.1949999999997,"endTime":2220.875,"body":"how they acted and what it meant."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2220.875,"endTime":2228.61,"body":"But now it's really, yeah, I'm so grateful for all the learning that being his mom has given me."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2228.61,"endTime":2234.79,"body":"Jessica, I think that's an important, powerful way to end the interview. Thank you for joining us today."},{"speaker":"Jessica Werner","startTime":2235.314,"endTime":2236.615,"body":"Thank you for having me."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2237.235,"endTime":2245.314,"body":"I think there's a lot of food for thought in that interview about when we do meet a tough class, we really have to take a"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2245.314,"endTime":2254.41,"body":"step back and look at ourselves and and our emotional state and and get that right because an exhausted and stressed and disregulated"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2254.63,"endTime":2259.83,"body":"teacher is gonna find it tough to turn a tough class around."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2259.83,"endTime":2262.469,"body":"And if you're in that position, don't hide it."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2262.469,"endTime":2264.9649999999997,"body":"Do please speak up and get the help you need."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2264.9649999999997,"endTime":2271.9249999999997,"body":"And as promised, I'll put Jessica's links and emails in the comments if you're watching the video of this or in the episode"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2271.9249999999997,"endTime":2275.4649999999997,"body":"description if you're listening to the audio podcast. Found this useful?"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2275.844,"endTime":2283.79,"body":"Remember to like the episode and share it so other teachers out there who are struggling themselves can get this information"},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2284.33,"endTime":2288.81,"body":"and get unstuck with a tough class that they might be working with."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2288.81,"endTime":2290.565,"body":"Again, it really does make a difference."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2290.645,"endTime":2293.219,"body":"I hope you have a brilliant week. My name's Simon Currigan."},{"speaker":"Simon Currigan","startTime":2293.285,"endTime":2297.065,"body":"Thank you for watching this week's episode of School Behaviour Secrets."}]}